2011-07-21
| 00:13 | goodieboy | matt |
| 00:22 | technomancy | are there any standalone libs that implement namespaces-matching like https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/src/leiningen/util/ns.clj ? |
| 00:24 | amalloy | technomancy: fwiw, clojure.tools.namespace is the new-contrib version, if pulling in all of contrib is what bothers you |
| 00:24 | technomancy | oh nice; I'll take a look |
| 00:24 | amalloy | or...org.clojure/tools.namespace, i guess |
| 00:24 | technomancy | the old contrib one had some behaviour that made it unsuitable for leiningen, but I don't remember the specifics |
| 00:24 | technomancy | it might work for this |
| 00:25 | amalloy | technomancy: the new one has a (set! *warn-on-reflection* true) helpfully placed at the top of the namespace for you |
| 00:25 | amalloy | (har har) |
| 00:26 | technomancy | ... |
| 00:26 | technomancy | ok, so much for that. |
| 00:26 | amalloy | ninjudd asked for it to be patched like two weeks ago. that "remove a single line" diff is still waiting; in the mean time, you can depend on his fork if you want |
| 00:27 | technomancy | I'll stick with my copypasta till (if) it's fixed |
| 00:28 | amalloy | i can't say i disagree |
| 00:35 | technomancy | amalloy: where's the bug report? |
| 00:35 | technomancy | looks like it's not even a project in jira yet, and it's not on the guthubs |
| 00:35 | technomancy | it's no wonder people are reluctant to move off 1.2 |
| 00:36 | amalloy | technomancy: oh, i misspoke. the bug is in java.classpath, on which tools.namespace depends |
| 00:37 | technomancy | aha |
| 00:37 | amalloy | https://github.com/clojure/java.classpath/pull/2 the pull request is closed but no release is forthcoming |
| 00:39 | technomancy | https://github.com/technomancy/Die-Roboter |
| 00:40 | ambrosebs | lol |
| 00:56 | technomancy | if any german speakers notice missing diacriticals or anything, please let me know |
| 01:07 | amalloy | i don't speak any german, but you can't go wrong with umlauts |
| 01:07 | technomancy | moar umlaüts! |
| 02:18 | dbushenko | hi all! |
| 02:19 | dbushenko | is clojurescript video available? |
| 05:00 | zakwilson | ,(contains? [-1 0 1] -1) |
| 05:00 | clojurebot | false |
| 05:01 | zakwilson | ,(contains? [-1 0 1] 1) |
| 05:01 | clojurebot | true |
| 05:01 | zakwilson | Why? |
| 05:01 | clojurebot | http://clojure.org/rationale |
| 05:01 | zakwilson | Thanks, clojurebot. That doesn't help. |
| 05:02 | Belaf | zakwilson: try "(doc contains?)" |
| 05:02 | clgv | zakwilson: because you can only ask whether an index is present |
| 05:03 | clgv | zakwilson: a vector is associative in mapping position index (key) to value at that position (val) |
| 05:03 | zakwilson | Oh. Right. That's why I wrote my own "member?". Is there one? |
| 05:03 | clgv | zakwilson: ##(some #(= -1 %) [-1 0 1]) |
| 05:04 | clgv | ,(some #(= -1 %) [-1 0 1]) |
| 05:04 | clojurebot | true |
| 05:05 | clgv | ,(contains? [10 11 12] 1) |
| 05:05 | clojurebot | true |
| 05:05 | clgv | ,(contains? [10 11 12] 3) |
| 05:05 | clojurebot | false |
| 05:07 | wjlroe | technomancy: Leiningen projects and deploying - are there any guidelines? Or pointers? Obviously want as simple a process as possible and am currently drowned in maven and so on... |
| 05:08 | talios | drowning in maven :( if I can help sing out... |
| 05:08 | talios | I see Hugo's launched an alternative maven plugin to mine as well |
| 05:09 | zakwilson | clgv: yeah, member? is basically that, but I wanted it to have its own function. |
| 05:26 | Belaf | Sono via per un po'... ci sentiamo più tardi? |
| 05:26 | Belaf | Sorry :( |
| 05:26 | ahriman53072 | ÷¸ |
| 05:27 | Belaf | wrong chat. |
| 05:28 | ejackson | what does it all mean... |
| 05:29 | raek | ejackson: have you seen https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki ? |
| 05:29 | ejackson | busy reading it |
| 05:30 | raek | basically, they did CinC and now Clojure runs on the javascript platform! |
| 05:30 | ahriman53072 | ÷¸ |
| 05:30 | raek | using Node for command line applications is very interesting... no JVM startup delay... |
| 05:36 | Fossi | and now on to a dalvik port :] |
| 05:36 | talios | you see Oracles new InvokeDynamic based Javascript language announced today ( well, mentioned at the Language Summit ) - looks interesting |
| 05:37 | ejackson | sorry raek, lost connectivity there |
| 05:37 | talios | ClojureScript the new JS runtime via JVM over onto Dalvik ;p |
| 05:37 | talios | sadly no ID on Dalvik |
| 05:38 | Fossi | hmm, it would make things a whole lot nicer |
| 05:39 | Fossi | but it isn't really needed anyway |
| 05:41 | ejackson | i'm hampered by being so backendy that I have no idea what all the client stuff is about :) |
| 06:01 | raek | 11:29 < raek> basically, they did CinC and now Clojure runs on the javascript platform! |
| 06:01 | chitsubr | Hmm, can someone explain what clojurescript is? Is it that we can write clojure code and run it in the browser? |
| 06:01 | raek | 11:30 < raek> using Node for command line applications is very interesting... no JVM startup delay... |
| 06:01 | raek | ejackson: ^ |
| 06:02 | raek | chitsubr: yes, in browsers and with node.js |
| 06:02 | raek | https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki |
| 06:03 | chitsubr | so to use it I would have to first write clojurescript, then compile it to js, and call the js from a web-page? |
| 06:03 | chitsubr | so it's like coffeescript in that way |
| 06:08 | raek | yes, but with additional benefits. it uses the Google Closure minification compiler which removes the parts of the libraries that you don't use |
| 06:17 | dbushenko | raek: is the video about ClojureScript available already? |
| 06:20 | talios | dbushenko: you could try the ustream page - ustream often has their copy available.. so maybe there |
| 06:21 | romanroe | in emacs, using clojure-mode, is there a way to always hightlight the first form in a list? currently it seems to only hightlight well-known functions like map, reduce, etc. |
| 06:21 | romanroe | err, I meant the first symbol in a list |
| 06:23 | raek | dbushenko: I don't think so. I expect it to show up at http://blip.tv/clojure eventually. |
| 06:29 | kjeldahlw | So any chance of having the ClojureScript compiler run in the browser, effectively allowing web apps to use clojure as a browser based repl language? Haven't had the time to dig into the "compiler" yet... |
| 06:32 | romanroe | kjeldahlw, as far as I understood it, ClojureScript is written in Clojure, not JavaScript. Hence you won't see a browser based compiler, eval, etc. |
| 06:33 | kjeldahlw | romanroe: Written in clojure, compile to javascript... ;-) Well, one could hope! :-) |
| 06:34 | raek | kjeldahlw: if you port the ClojureScript compiler to the ClojureScript subset of Clojure, you should theoretically be able to compiler the compiler to javascript :-) |
| 06:34 | kjeldahlw | Kind of similar to Coffeescript in that regard, only not quite yet. Yes, I've read the part about being a compiler versus "translator", so I realize the effort is a lot larger. |
| 06:35 | raek | *compile the compiler |
| 06:35 | kjeldahlw | raek: Yes, my thought exactly. |
| 06:35 | kjeldahlw | A good benchmark on how "complete" the clojure to javascript compiler is anway, "self hosting" or whatever it is called. |
| 06:35 | raek | as rhickey said, this was not a design goal, but he is certain that someone will do it eventually |
| 06:36 | kjeldahlw | Haven't seen it yet, still waiting! |
| 06:38 | kjeldahlw | But I did get the Closure book already... |
| 06:45 | tsdh | Hi. Can someone give me a hint why my fold-constants-with-choose is 450 times slower than my fold-constants? http://pastebin.com/5uYkBzL4 |
| 06:46 | tsdh | I somehow expected a worst-case slowdown of factor 3... |
| 06:53 | clgv | I need to pair the elements of two sequences but I do NOT want the pairing to stop as soon as one sequence has no elements anymore BUT when all sequences have no elements anymore. is there already a command for that? |
| 06:54 | opqdonut | no, not really |
| 06:54 | opqdonut | do you want the missing values to be nil or what? |
| 06:54 | clgv | yes. |
| 06:54 | opqdonut | I've sometimes implemented a map+ that is like map but goes on until all sequences are exhausted |
| 06:54 | clgv | ok. I might implement it myself via loop then ;) |
| 06:55 | opqdonut | mhmm |
| 07:07 | clgv | done: (defn pair-seq [c1 c2] (when (or (seq c1) (seq c2)) (lazy-seq (cons [(first c1) (first c2)] (pair-seq (rest c1) (rest c2)))))) |
| 07:07 | clgv | no generalization on multiple arguments right now... |
| 08:05 | raek | aw! I was going to name my Gopher protocol client "Capybara" but someone else started a project with that name since last time I checked (at that time, there were no hits on github) |
| 08:34 | raek | when was defprotocol docstring support added to Marginalia? |
| 08:34 | raek | doesn't seem to be recognized with [lein-marginalia "0.6.0"] |
| 09:03 | buddywilliams | Anyone know of a great article on clojure recursion? One which address the different types of recursion. |
| 09:04 | buddywilliams | ,(println "good morning world!") |
| 09:04 | clojurebot | good morning world! |
| 09:07 | manutter1 | Missed the live stream last night, is the video ready yet? |
| 09:07 | clgv | buddywilliams: what exactly are your questions? maybe we can answer them here |
| 09:13 | gfrlog | in leiningen, what's the standard way to handle jars that can't be gotten via maven? Obviously I'll have to check them into the repo, but wondering where to put them so that lein both knows what they are and doesn't delete them all the time. |
| 09:17 | raek | gfrlog: and this is not a java liv that you can find on jarvana.com? |
| 09:17 | raek | (just checking that first) |
| 09:18 | joegallo | http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-3rd-party-jars-local.html |
| 09:18 | joegallo | Just use maven to install the jar locally. |
| 09:19 | raek | gfrlog: you can add [your.private.domain/theproject "version"] to your project.clj and do lein deps. the maven error message will tell you what to do to make it work |
| 09:19 | raek | there is a thread about this in the clojure and leiningen mail list |
| 09:25 | kumarshantanu | gfrlog: raek: is it something you can use lein-localrepo plugin for? |
| 09:31 | gfrlog | I'll look at all those options, thanks guys |
| 09:38 | ischyrus | Is there a clojure function to generate a unique id? |
| 09:39 | kumarshantanu | ischyrus: gensym |
| 09:39 | kumarshantanu | ,(gensym) |
| 09:39 | clojurebot | G__199 |
| 09:41 | ischyrus | thanks |
| 09:48 | clgv | ischyrus: kumarshantanu's suggestion generates a unique symbol for use in macros. do you want unique ids for your business objects? |
| 09:49 | ischyrus | yeah, I ended up with '(.toString (java.util.UUID/randomUUID)))' |
| 09:50 | clgv | if that works for you it's fine. but that might not work as intended with persistence in several programm runs. |
| 09:51 | ischyrus | what would you suggest? |
| 09:52 | clgv | ischyrus: I don't know your complete scenario so I can't suggest anything. java.util.UUID/randomUUID looks good for generating UUIDs in a single run of a program |
| 09:55 | ischyrus | I'm essentially creating a key that can be given to someone that can be used for a basic authentication. Basically an api key |
| 09:56 | fliebel | Is the presentation about clojurescript up on the web somewhere? |
| 09:56 | stuartsierra | Video will go up at some point, but not yet. |
| 09:56 | fliebel | okay |
| 09:57 | abedra | stuartsierra, what do we need to do in order to get it downloadable? |
| 09:57 | stuartsierra | no idea |
| 09:57 | abedra | stuartsierra, is it just too big right now? |
| 09:57 | clgv | ischyrus: well then I would use java.util.UUID/randomUUID and store the results in a file/database for lookups regarding "true persistent uniqueness". |
| 09:57 | stuartsierra | abedra: ask Alan |
| 09:57 | fliebel | I though that streaming thing automatically recorded the stream. |
| 09:57 | abedra | stuartsierra, if so, I can grab it and run ffmpeg on it today |
| 09:57 | clojurebot | stuartsierra is volunteering |
| 09:57 | abedra | stuartsierra, ok will do |
| 09:57 | stuartsierra | dammit, Clojurebot |
| 10:13 | jodaro | hiya |
| 10:20 | maravillas | is a pull request or a google groups post preferred for a clojurescript patch? |
| 10:22 | stuartsierra | neither yet. We will have JIRA set up soon. |
| 10:24 | ejackson | ah, so the idea of ClojureScript is to allow Clojure to be deployed where the JVM cannot. I get it, I think. |
| 10:25 | Scriptor | also solves the slow startup time problem, so it should be great for small scripts |
| 10:27 | ejackson | with which engine ? (I'm not being sarcy, I genuinely don't know) |
| 10:28 | Scriptor | ejackson: v8 via node I guess? |
| 10:28 | ejackson | OK, interesting, thanks. |
| 10:28 | Scriptor | well, that's one of the intended uses, I think it might come with rhino as well |
| 10:29 | ejackson | and the mobile angle is that all phones have JS enabled browsers, or they can run JS natively ? |
| 10:30 | Scriptor | pretty much |
| 10:30 | ejackson | oh, I meant it as a question of which clause was true ? |
| 10:31 | Scriptor | well, like the rationale page says js is often the most portable language for mobile phones if you want to develop apps for them (would have to be web apps though) |
| 10:32 | Scriptor | and I think the major phone os's support js |
| 10:32 | clgv | hmm will all clojure code be compilable to javascript via clojurescript? or will it be like .Net vs silverlight? |
| 10:33 | Scriptor | not familiar with how it was with silverlight, but not all clojure code |
| 10:33 | Scriptor | in the talk Rich mentioned that porting higher-level libraries was very easy, but it still takes a bit of effort I guess, since only a subset of clojure is available |
| 10:37 | kumarshantanu | Scriptor: Has anybody given a thought to debugging w.r.t. ClojureScript? Is it possible to generate debugger steps in the emitted code? |
| 10:38 | Scriptor | kumarshantanu: I don't really know, I've of firebug integration with clojurescript though |
| 10:41 | jodaro | hi, quick n00b question/affirmation: i'm using proxy to get to a method in a Java class (which is implemented by someone else). the method I need access to, however, requires me to use 'this.data', which happens to be 'protected Object data;', and there is no accessor unfortunately. from the clojure docs, it looks like i'm out of luck with proxy. |
| 10:42 | raek | jodaro: yes, that is a limitation of proxy. you can't access protected fields. |
| 10:43 | raek | jodaro: a simple work around is to write a small class in Java that exposes an accessor and then subclass that one instead |
| 10:43 | jodaro | yeah |
| 10:43 | jodaro | that was my next plan |
| 10:43 | jodaro | thanks |
| 10:44 | raek | in lein, just add :java-source-path "src/" to the project.clj, and then any java files there will be compiled when the app is built (or when you invoke lein javac manually) |
| 10:45 | jodaro | nice |
| 10:45 | jodaro | i'm a scala refugee to some extent. lein reminds me a lot of sbt |
| 10:45 | jodaro | which is a good thing |
| 10:48 | chouser | or do something similar with gen-class |
| 10:53 | jodaro | yeah i was looking at gen-class as well |
| 11:00 | jodaro | its not clear why the implementer didn't add an accessor for the data member |
| 11:00 | jodaro | since there is a setter, and all of the other fields have them |
| 11:23 | clgv | is it true that I can speed up execution if I use the method of the interface generated by defprotocol directly? |
| 11:32 | dnolen | kumarshantanu: the solution will probably be source mapping - WebKit and Firefox are both working on it. Also I heard Google Closure already has a Firefox plugin for Google Closure transformed code. |
| 11:39 | kumarshantanu | dnolen: any URL/googleable_keyword for the ongoing effort on Webkit and Firefox? |
| 11:42 | kumarshantanu | found http://code.google.com/closure/compiler/docs/inspector.html |
| 11:43 | dnolen | https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63940 |
| 11:43 | dnolen | https://docs.google.com/document/d/14AWiLDDxEuLaWuyG0X6deLRufrvxRu8HBP0LNJwvRZw/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1 |
| 11:46 | kumarshantanu | dnolen: Thanks! |
| 11:55 | the-kenny | http://tarn-vedra.de/test.html <-- clojurescript is awesome :) |
| 11:56 | clgv | the-kenny: you should show the clojurescript source as well^^ |
| 11:57 | ambrosebs | :D |
| 11:58 | the-kenny | clgv: You can find the source in test.js :) |
| 11:58 | the-kenny | :p |
| 11:58 | the-kenny | clgv: https://gist.github.com/1097505 |
| 11:58 | clgv | yeah, well - considering this it is pretty ugly then :P |
| 11:59 | clgv | thx |
| 12:00 | the-kenny | It's pretty simple, but there are a few gotchas (like the syntax for (.method object args...) |
| 12:00 | the-kenny | Sorry for bothering you guys, I just got around playing with Clojurescript |
| 12:00 | clgv | dnolen: did you tell me that 2d double arrays were much slower than 1d double arrays? |
| 12:02 | dnolen | clgv: yes |
| 12:02 | clgv | dnolen: this seems to be not true at all, considering random read and write access on them. |
| 12:03 | clgv | dnolen: I just measured both implementations. |
| 12:03 | dnolen | clgv: interesting got a gist? could be wrong o course. |
| 12:04 | clgv | dnolen: I can make a gist in a few mins. Maybe I have overhead when calculating the index due to possibly not using primitives? |
| 12:05 | dnolen | clgv: that's probably it. |
| 12:06 | clgv | dnolen: does it matter if I use boxed Integer or int? |
| 12:16 | clgv | dnolen: with assuring all being Integer it still is slower. |
| 12:17 | clgv | I also have typehints in place |
| 12:20 | abhinavmehta | hi clojure tribe, suggestion for first-book to read about clojure. |
| 12:20 | abhinavmehta | any.? |
| 12:20 | pdk | programming clojure then joy of clojure probably |
| 12:20 | pdk | practical clojure is kind of just a ready reference for core functions and needs editing work |
| 12:21 | abhinavmehta | pdk: ahaa..looking at it(joy of clojure), seems good. |
| 12:21 | abhinavmehta | pdk: thank-you. :) |
| 12:22 | pdk | joy of clojure does assume some java/lisp understanding a bit of familiarity with clojure |
| 12:22 | pdk | though the stuff it does cover is missed by the others |
| 12:24 | frou | watching some of Rich's nice video talks might be the best step zero? |
| 12:24 | abhinavmehta | pdk: not a problem with Java/Lisp and second statement sounds more interesting...thats a good one |
| 12:25 | ohpauleez | fwiw, I swear by Joy of Clojure and have read it a good number of times |
| 12:25 | ohpauleez | I think four or five total now |
| 12:27 | abhinavmehta | ohpauleez: clojure peeps seems badly loving it..huhh. :) |
| 12:28 | abhinavmehta | frou: Is there some Rich's video tutorial targeting beginners ? Any url's ? |
| 12:36 | frou | abhinavmehta: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hickey |
| 12:36 | abhinavmehta | frou: thank-you. :-) |
| 12:37 | frou | abhinavmehta: welcome, and http://blip.tv/clojure/clojure-for-java-programmers-1-of-2-989128 |
| 12:38 | abhinavmehta | frou: thanks once-again. |
| 12:49 | ohpauleez | yeah |
| 12:49 | clgv | devn: why? |
| 12:49 | ohpauleez | I still tell people to go and watch it |
| 12:49 | technomancy | devn: is that still only available on flash? |
| 12:50 | ohpauleez | clgv: It's a fundamental ideology that is a breath of fresh air, "There are better ways to achieve the things we've always wanted in a paradigm. We can solve real problems if we critically analyze them" |
| 12:51 | ohpauleez | and it fully motivates the Clojure story |
| 12:51 | clgv | I wanted to know why 6 times ;) |
| 12:51 | ohpauleez | ohh |
| 12:51 | ohpauleez | :) |
| 12:55 | ieure | http://i.imgur.com/58mjC.jpg |
| 12:56 | clgv | how do I create an unboxed integer? |
| 12:58 | frou | technomancy: at least in Safari, you can download the video file by looking in the "Activity" window while you're streaming it |
| 12:59 | technomancy | frou: that still requires flash |
| 13:02 | dnolen | clgv: boxed number will always be slower. what version of Clojure are you using? |
| 13:02 | clgv | dnolen: 1.2.1 |
| 13:02 | dnolen | clgv: you can cast to a primitive in 1.2.1 (int n) |
| 13:02 | clgv | dnolen: I guess I have to convert my map to a defrecord then. |
| 13:03 | dnolen | clgv: but you also need to type your arrays as arrays of primitives, ^ints |
| 13:04 | clgv | dnolen: in the current version the 1d approach is about 40% slower |
| 13:06 | clgv | dnolen: I'll do the defrecord conversion tomorrow and see if I can get a speedup |
| 13:07 | mattmitchell | hmm, i have to namespaces. they both need to talk to each other. I'm using require :as, but getting a cyclical dependency errors. Anyone know a way around this? |
| 13:07 | mattmitchell | sorry, i meant TWO namespaces |
| 13:08 | clgv | mattmitchell: refactor to avoid the cyclic dependency relation |
| 13:08 | mattmitchell | clgv: i was afraid to hear something like that :) any suggestions? |
| 13:09 | clgv | mattmitchell: decide on a clear relation where one of those namespace uses the second. you have to extract the entities in the first namespace that shall be used by the second into a third namespace that can be used by both. |
| 13:09 | mattmitchell | clgv: yeah makes sense. ok i'll give it a shot. thanks! |
| 13:14 | Vinzent | enlive question: how can I select the node that is in 3 elems after some element? |
| 13:14 | Vinzent | e.g. <div ...> <img ...> <p ...> <a ...>, I need to extract a |
| 13:16 | Vinzent | should I use {} syntax to select fragment between div and a? |
| 13:27 | Vinzent | another one: how to select node from the fragment returned by {}? |
| 14:11 | ambrosebs | how can I find the index number of the first value in a vector to pass a predicate? |
| 14:12 | ambrosebs | [true true false], looking for false, returns 2 |
| 14:12 | kumarshantanu | ambrosebs: (map f foo-vector (iterate inc 0)) |
| 14:14 | ambrosebs | not quite what i'm after, I'll be clearer |
| 14:14 | ambrosebs | (mystery false? [true true false]) => 2 |
| 14:14 | ambrosebs | what is mystery? :) |
| 14:15 | technomancy | ,(filter (comp not second) (map-indexed vector [true true false])) |
| 14:15 | clojurebot | ([2 false]) |
| 14:16 | ambrosebs | technomancy: perfect thanks! |
| 14:16 | technomancy | not quite perfect, but sure |
| 14:16 | ambrosebs | :) |
| 14:17 | amalloy | usually if i care about indexes in a vector it's because i'm in the middle of doing something the wrong way :P |
| 14:18 | ambrosebs | I'm implementing an algorithm from a paper :) |
| 14:18 | ambrosebs | so it must be right ;) |
| 14:29 | amalloy | technomancy: well, it's not crazy, if they have more than one ns. eg if i have org.malloys.akm.dnsutils.lookup, i kinda prefer ...dnsutils.core to ...dnsutils |
| 14:30 | technomancy | amalloy: really? |
| 14:30 | technomancy | the only reason the .core convention was introduced was to avoid single-segment namespaces |
| 14:31 | amalloy | maybe it's a sick fetish i've developed as a result of that convention |
| 14:32 | technomancy | lein new in 2.0 will probably detect multi-word project names and create src/die/roboter.clj instead of src/die_roboter/core.clj |
| 14:32 | technomancy | because that's the first thing I fix when I start a new project |
| 14:32 | kumarshantanu | +1 |
| 14:33 | amalloy | i guess i'm probably also lying about my preference |
| 14:33 | amalloy | since amalloy-utils has amalloy.utils and amalloy.utils.foo |
| 14:35 | kumarshantanu | technomancy: any tentative schedule for lein 2.0? Is 1.6 the last in 1.x series? |
| 14:36 | technomancy | kumarshantanu: right, 1.6 will probably see a couple bugfix releases |
| 14:36 | technomancy | I don't know how long 2.0 will take. the big juicy bits are the aether switch and rewriting eval-in-project. |
| 14:36 | amalloy | the aether switch? that sounds fantastic, whatever it is |
| 14:36 | kumarshantanu | I guess Cljs support will coincide with 2.0 |
| 14:37 | kumarshantanu | given that it is still alpha |
| 14:37 | technomancy | amalloy: I could explain, but I think whatever your imagination is coming up with is probably better. |
| 14:37 | technomancy | kumarshantanu: I haven't looked at it enough to say for sure, but that would probably work fine as a plugin for 1.x |
| 14:37 | kumarshantanu | amalloy: aether is the Maven deps resolution functionality factored out of Maven (roughly speaking) |
| 14:40 | rhebus | (constantly 2) |
| 14:43 | Vinzent | http://paste.lisp.org/display/123413 - please correct me if I'm wrong, does this means "give me all spans with class italic those have parent with ::= in its content and class subhead2"? |
| 14:46 | bendlas | Hi, I've written an improved version of clojure.repl/dir https://github.com/bendlas/clojure.repl |
| 14:46 | bendlas | I'd appreciate feedback |
| 14:55 | bpr | is there a "correct" way to write tests for private functions? |
| 14:56 | danbell | Anyone know the difference between replicate and repeat? |
| 14:56 | amalloy | bpr: my preference is to stop writing private functions |
| 14:56 | amalloy | danbell: one of them's older. i always use repeat |
| 14:56 | amalloy | &(doc replicate) |
| 14:56 | lazybot | ⇒ "([n x]); Returns a lazy seq of n xs." |
| 14:56 | amalloy | &(doc repeat) |
| 14:56 | lazybot | ⇒ "([x] [n x]); Returns a lazy (infinite!, or length n if supplied) sequence of xs." |
| 14:57 | danbell | seems like replicate is redundant and not as powerful |
| 14:57 | amalloy | ~source replicate |
| 14:57 | amalloy | ~source repeat |
| 14:57 | amalloy | yeah, replicate is 100% redundant |
| 14:58 | danbell | well i'll be |
| 15:00 | amalloy | bpr: clojure gives you so many other options. a "private" namespace with public functions in it; functions which are actually private via closures: (letfn [(priv-fn [x] (inc x))] (defn pub-fn [x] (priv-fn (* 2 x)))) |
| 15:01 | kumarshantanu | bpr: private functions have been termed "bossiness" in the past - you should consider creating a namespace called "internal" and put private stuff there |
| 15:02 | kumarshantanu | as in foo.bar and foo.bar.internal |
| 15:05 | bpr | I guess the internal namespace sounds good. Though it strikes me as rather heavy-handed compared to defn-. My issue with the closed-over functions is that I still wouldn't be able to test them. |
| 15:06 | Vinzent | what's wrong with plain private fns? |
| 15:06 | amalloy | people often argue you should only write tests for public APIs. i'm not really convinced, but it's something to think about |
| 15:07 | Vinzent | more consize way for testing is #' trick |
| 15:10 | bpr | thanks for the suggestions! |
| 15:14 | ibdknox_ | Vinzent: what's the #' trick? |
| 15:14 | Vinzent | ibdknox_, you can access even private vars with var-quote |
| 15:14 | ibdknox_ | ah |
| 15:15 | ibdknox_ | interesting |
| 15:46 | Scriptor | anybody know how to get the jdk on cygwin? |
| 15:58 | Scriptor | hmm, so I figured that out |
| 15:59 | Scriptor | but now, it says "no 'server' JVM at (path-to-JRE)\bin\server\jvm.dll |
| 15:59 | Scriptor | did I get the wrong java version or something? |
| 15:59 | Scriptor | *edition, not version |
| 16:00 | DethStryke | I had to point my path to the jdk version in order to get it to work. |
| 16:00 | Scriptor | argh |
| 16:01 | DethStryke | It might work if you remove the -server argument. I didn't try. |
| 16:02 | DethStryke | I'm assuming you are playing with ClojureScript.. |
| 16:03 | Scriptor | yep |
| 16:05 | DethStryke | Also, the current arguments don't work with 32bit java either. I had to use 64bit. Or remove the -Xmx2G -Xms2G |
| 16:15 | tarcieri | ohai |
| 16:15 | tarcieri | suppose I should start chilling here |
| 16:16 | Scriptor | now if only I can find where in the path the java executable's location is stored... |
| 16:17 | raek | has anyone of you written something like this? https://gist.github.com/1098101 |
| 16:17 | raek | i.e. make a proxy like this so that you have have vars for its methods |
| 16:17 | raek | so that when you redef the vars, the existing proxy object will change behaviour |
| 16:18 | jonasen | About dev.clojure.org, Does the login for confluence work for jira? Or do I (also) have to sign up for jira? |
| 16:21 | raek | should be the same, I think |
| 16:21 | amalloy | i've heard some people had problems though |
| 16:22 | jonasen | ok. I can login to confluence but not jira |
| 16:22 | mjg123 | ls |
| 16:25 | jonasen | when I signed up for dev.clojure.org I clicked "use email as username" (or something like that). Maybe that messed with the jira login? |
| 16:29 | mjg123 | "Runtime eval is not supported in ClojureScript" |
| 16:30 | mjg123 | not supported yet? or ever? |
| 16:30 | Scriptor | ever, I think |
| 16:31 | Raynes | Scriptor: Evers. |
| 16:31 | raek | jonasen: try sending an email to the clojure-dev list. shoudln't take very long to get it fixed. |
| 16:40 | jonasen | raek: I'll do that. Thanks. |
| 16:43 | Scriptor | ok, so how is java's path stored in windows's PATH (on xp)? |
| 16:43 | Scriptor | I tried looking for it, but it doesn't seem to be there |
| 16:44 | kumarshantanu | Scriptor: "c:\\temp\\foo.clj;c:\\temp\\bar.clj" |
| 16:44 | Scriptor | kumarshantanu: sorry, wasn't clear, I meant the path to JRE itself |
| 16:45 | kumarshantanu | C:\Program Files\Java\jdk_1.6.0_26\bin |
| 16:46 | kumarshantanu | or something similar |
| 16:46 | Scriptor | kumarshantanu: yes, but where does it store that path? |
| 16:46 | Scriptor | it's not in the PATH environment variable |
| 16:47 | kumarshantanu | in the PATH variable, or some scripts resolve it from JAVA_HOME |
| 16:47 | kumarshantanu | echo %PATH% |
| 16:47 | kumarshantanu | echo %JAVA_HOME% |
| 16:47 | kumarshantanu | and if nothing works, then there would be a java.exe in C:\Windows or C:\Windows\System32 |
| 16:48 | kumarshantanu | because Java JRE installs a copy of java.exe in the Windows dir |
| 16:50 | Scriptor | ah, looks like it's under system32, thanks kumarshantanu |
| 16:54 | Scriptor | woohoo, graduated to the next error |
| 16:59 | mjg123 | ClojureScript question: Is there example code for making an ajax call? |
| 17:00 | kumarshantanu | mjg123: you can probably use jQuery for that from within Cljs script |
| 17:00 | mjg123 | ye - is that how the twitterbuzz demo was done? |
| 17:00 | mjg123 | would avoid jquery if I can. |
| 17:01 | Scriptor | they probably used google closure |
| 17:01 | Scriptor | so I'd recommend looking into their ajax lib |
| 17:01 | emacsen | so what was the big announcement yesterday? |
| 17:01 | dnolen | mjg123: you'll probably want to avoid jQuery as that code can't be optimized by Google Closure |
| 17:02 | kumarshantanu | FWIW this is a jQuery example - https://gist.github.com/1096382 |
| 17:02 | Scriptor | emacsen: clojurescript, clj -> js |
| 17:02 | babilen | emacsen: clojurescript |
| 17:02 | emacsen | ok, even though rhicky doesn't seem to have many commits to the github |
| 17:05 | emacsen | so why, other than coolness, is clojurescript a big deal? |
| 17:06 | dnolen | write Clojure for web, mobile, and shell scripts that don't take 7 seconds to even start up. |
| 17:06 | Raynes | One thing I'm excited about is that it gives Clojure a good CLI story. |
| 17:06 | tarcieri | emacsen: you can share code between client and server |
| 17:06 | jcromartie | how would I wrap up random numbers (for a game) in a functional way? |
| 17:06 | jcromartie | or really, wrap up the PRNG |
| 17:06 | Raynes | emacsen: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Rationale |
| 17:06 | technomancy | I hope it doesn't mean JVM Clojure's CLI is considered a lost cause though |
| 17:07 | emacsen | tarcieri, sure. I guess I'm asking "What is the benefit of this in comparison to, say, straight node.js" |
| 17:07 | pjstadig | clojurescript is not a full clojure impl |
| 17:07 | dnolen | technomancy: certainly not. |
| 17:07 | dnolen | emacsen: JS semantics are awful. |
| 17:07 | Raynes | technomancy: It doesn't. It's still a big focus of cake. |
| 17:07 | pjstadig | so i don't see how it's CLI could replace the JVM |
| 17:07 | tarcieri | emacsen: node.js kinda sucks? heh |
| 17:07 | Scriptor | emacsen: js is somewhat functional, but not wholely |
| 17:07 | Raynes | technomancy: We haven't given up on persistent JVMs. |
| 17:07 | technomancy | dnolen: well, more of a lost cause than the present |
| 17:07 | tarcieri | the JVM rules |
| 17:08 | technomancy | headius mentioned that at the JVM language summit oracle hinted at having a hotspot that could launch faster than the client JVM but still JIT better than the current server |
| 17:08 | emacsen | tarcieri, does it? I'm writing something in it. It doesn't suck to me. |
| 17:08 | tarcieri | orly |
| 17:08 | tarcieri | emacsen: node.js gives you callback soup |
| 17:08 | pjstadig | technomancy: right like a tierd compiler or something |
| 17:09 | dnolen | emacsen: it's little different than people writing Node.js in CoffeeScript. You like the underlying platform but you'd use a nicer language. |
| 17:09 | dnolen | that's Clojure's whole story even on the JVM. |
| 17:11 | emacsen | dnolen, I hear ya, except that node.js's raison d'etre is "Look what we can do if we get rid of our love of threads.". I love Clojure, but it seems like a bit of mismatch? Clojure's biggest selling point for non-lispers is the concurency semantics. |
| 17:11 | Raynes | pjstadig: Even a subset of Clojure for CLI scripting is nice. |
| 17:11 | technomancy | emacsen: I think the only reason node is relevant is that V8 has awful CLI tools |
| 17:12 | technomancy | I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting clojurescript for server-side work other than to avoid JVM flaws like boot time and UTF-16 |
| 17:12 | emacsen | technomancy, I don't agree. If I weren't writing this current code in node, I'd be using python or ruby or clojure. |
| 17:12 | technomancy | emacsen: eh? I'm agreeing with you. |
| 17:12 | emacsen | technomancy, then I'm confused :) |
| 17:13 | emacsen | but thanks for agreeing with me ;) |
| 17:13 | kylpo | or elnode! elisp nodejs :P |
| 17:14 | dnolen | emacsen: Clojure is not just about threads or concurrency. |
| 17:14 | emacsen | dnolen, no it's also about CLOS done right :) |
| 17:14 | Scriptor | dnolen: it's not, but for non-lispers who don't know about macros that's one of the selling points |
| 17:14 | technomancy | emacsen: I think clojurescript is interesting for 0) running in browsers and 1) niches where certain JVM flaws are really annoying. I don't think it makes any sense to run in V8 on the server side except for quick scripting tasks |
| 17:14 | emacsen | technomancy, hrm. ok |
| 17:15 | dnolen | I agree w/ technomancy |
| 17:15 | mjg123 | I'd add 2) running on mobile platform |
| 17:16 | dnolen | it's funny I was investigating Scheme2JS which looked kinda cool ... but no macros. ClojureScript is a big step up from plain Scheme as well. |
| 17:16 | kumarshantanu | mjg123: you mean browser? mobie browser? that is 0 |
| 17:16 | pjstadig | Raynes: sure, i was just saying it doesn't make sense to talk about replacement, when it's not a full impl |
| 17:16 | mjg123 | well, yes |
| 17:16 | Raynes | Right |
| 17:17 | Scriptor | so...what's a likely reason for clojurescript hitting a NoClassDefFound error when looking for clojure/main? |
| 17:17 | dnolen | Scriptor: classpath not set |
| 17:17 | dnolen | you need to set CLOJURESCRIPT_HOME and export it |
| 17:17 | Scriptor | same on windows? |
| 17:18 | dnolen | Scriptor: I would imagine so. |
| 17:18 | bpr | is the video of yesterday's talk available? I had to step out right when Rich was beginning to show the demo. I'd kinda like to see it |
| 17:20 | chouser | they're working on making the video avaliable |
| 17:21 | bpr | chouser: cool |
| 17:21 | chouser | I woudl guess it'll be up sometime tomorrow |
| 17:24 | mjg123 | re: https://gist.github.com/1096382 - only works if cljs compiled with :optimizations :simple |
| 17:25 | mjg123 | I get a random js error if I use :advanced |
| 17:25 | mjg123 | Why would that be? |
| 17:26 | Scriptor | dnolen: set the environment variable, still doesn't work |
| 17:26 | Scriptor | I'm trying to run the repl from the clojurescript root directory, by the way |
| 17:27 | scottj | does clojurescript compiler call closure from the commandline or via java? |
| 17:27 | chouser | via java api |
| 17:28 | bendlas | Hey folks, would someone care to look at my (dir) macro and tell me if it's any good? https://github.com/bendlas/clojure.repl |
| 17:29 | bendlas | I'd love to see something like that as the official clojure.repl/dir |
| 17:30 | bendlas | because if i've learned something from python, it is that a good namespace-exploring tool is invaluable |
| 17:30 | dnolen | Scriptor: oh huh, repl should just work |
| 17:31 | scottj | is there a function that takes clojurescript code and returns js run through closure on maximum as a string? |
| 17:33 | scottj | s/maximum/advanced |
| 17:33 | lazybot | <scottj> is there a function that takes clojurescript code and returns js run through closure on advanced as a string? |
| 17:33 | Scriptor | dnolen: could it be a problem with cygwin? |
| 17:37 | chouser | Scriptor: you'd have to send the entire program through |
| 17:37 | Scriptor | chouser: what do you mean? |
| 17:37 | Scriptor | as in, which program? |
| 17:37 | scottj | I think maybe he meant to respond to me |
| 17:37 | Scriptor | I tried running it through the regular cmd and am still getting the same error |
| 17:38 | chouser | oh, yes, sorry. scottj |
| 17:38 | dnolen | Scriptor: perhaps, I'm not a Windows person. Might want to take it up on the ML. |
| 17:39 | scottj | chouser: if you're willing to give up advanced closure then can you do just part of the program? |
| 17:40 | chouser | scottj: simple should work |
| 17:40 | chouser | I don't know if there's a function that does all cljs and simple gclosure at once, but you could make one. |
| 17:42 | mjg123 | How can I make a javascript map (ie {"a":"b"}) with ClojureScript? |
| 17:43 | chouser | (doto (js-obj) (aset "a" "b")) works -- not sure if it's the best or only way |
| 17:44 | mjg123 | chouser: thanks :) |
| 17:55 | dnolen | hmm, in the ClojureScript REPL can you access the goog stuff? |
| 18:03 | Scriptor | in case it matters, I'm on a 32 bit machine, so someone suggested removing two of the flags from inside the repl command |
| 18:18 | mjg123 | Would someone mind looking at this https://gist.github.com/1098372 please? |
| 18:19 | mjg123 | regarding making js maps in ClojureScript |
| 18:45 | mjg123 | ClojureScript, jQuery, ajax sitting in a tree... https://gist.github.com/1098417 |
| 18:48 | ibdknox_ | mjg123: seems like there's a big opportunity for someone to come in and clean up the experience of using JQuery |
| 18:48 | ibdknox_ | lol |
| 18:48 | mjg123 | yeah! |
| 18:50 | ibdknox_ | actually we need something that wraps all of the JS standard lib I guess |
| 18:51 | mjg123 | once you've got all ClojureScripty on top of it, it doesn't seem that useful to actually have jQuery underneath |
| 18:51 | ibdknox_ | hm? |
| 18:51 | ibdknox_ | how would you expect dom manipulation to work |
| 18:51 | mjg123 | there are google-closure libraries which would do that |
| 18:51 | ibdknox_ | this is something I've been trying to think through |
| 18:52 | mjg123 | unless you're really attached to something jQuey can do |
| 18:52 | ibdknox_ | so it would compile into dom functions directly? |
| 18:52 | ibdknox_ | not particularly |
| 18:52 | mjg123 | I suppose it would - I don't know much about the closure-libraries |
| 18:52 | ibdknox_ | I'll have to look into that |
| 18:52 | mjg123 | me too... |
| 18:53 | mjg123 | but I don't suppose (eg) gmail uses jQuery, does it? |
| 18:55 | jakedouglas | its not great for javascript users that know jquery to have to learn to use the closure library. jquery is pretty commonplace, whereas i have never met or heard of anyone who uses closure for real projects |
| 18:58 | chouser | jakedouglas: familiarity is not the same as quality |
| 18:59 | jakedouglas | chouser: so you're asserting that closure library is of a higher quality than jquery? |
| 19:00 | chouser | I'm saying the fact that more people use jquery doesn't mean it's higher quality than gclosure |
| 19:00 | jakedouglas | chouser: sure |
| 19:01 | Raynes | jakedouglas: They were pretty clear in the video and on the wiki as to why they choose to use Closure. Familiarity wasn't one of the reasons. |
| 19:01 | chouser | It may be reasonable to choose the more familiar and assume the quality is sufficient, but it seems unlikely that line of reasoning would end up with anyone being in the IRC channel. :-) |
| 19:02 | chouser | s/the/this/ |
| 19:04 | chouser | but if jquery can be made compatible with the gclosure compiler, you're free to use that instead |
| 19:04 | jakedouglas | right |
| 19:05 | pmbauer | read-string, pr-str and friends in the browser is so sweet ... might be getting cavities just thinking about it |
| 19:07 | mjg123 | pmbauer: as in (read-string somthing-got-by-ajax) ? |
| 19:07 | pmbauer | exactly |
| 19:18 | aaelony | i think gmail probably uses GWT |
| 19:18 | scottj | I think gmail is pre GWT. adsense stuff uses GWT though |
| 19:19 | Scriptor | so, note for any windows users trying clojurescript on cygwin, the string that's used for the classpath needs to use ; as the separator |
| 19:19 | Scriptor | does google still run the output of GWT through Closure? |
| 19:20 | pmbauer | Scriptor: right ... and set CLOSURESCRIPT_HOME using windows-style path (C:\...), but edit the path to use /cygdrive/c/.../bin |
| 19:21 | Scriptor | jeez |
| 19:21 | Scriptor | maybe I'll write a blag post about it :p |
| 19:22 | pmbauer | Maybe we can get MSFT to sponsor the ClosureScript port to windows a la node.js ;) |
| 19:26 | Scriptor | hmm, all that'd have to be done to port it is to fix the scripts, right? |
| 19:27 | pmbauer | That and there's some path mangling going on in the generated .js files if you don't use an optimization parameter (windows) |
| 19:28 | pmbauer | e.g. cljsc src {:optimizations :advanced} > twitterbuzz.js |
| 19:29 | pmbauer | ...otherwise all the generated paths passed to goog.addDependency are not resolvable (windows only) |
| 19:30 | Scriptor | why does adding an optimization parameter fix that? |
| 19:30 | pmbauer | the :advanced option puts everything in one .js file, so no need for the goog.addDependency calls |
| 19:31 | Scriptor | oh, makes sense |
| 19:31 | mjg123 | when I compile the code at https://gist.github.com/1098417 with {:optimization :advanced} it doesn't work |
| 19:31 | mjg123 | with {:optimization :simple} it does |
| 19:31 | mjg123 | (doesn't work == JavaScript errors in the browser) |
| 19:31 | pmbauer | I believe that is because jquery is not compatible with Closure (google) advanced mode |
| 19:32 | scottj | has anyone used the closure firefox plugin for debugging? is it helpful with clojurescript? |
| 19:32 | mjg123 | pmbauer: OK thanks |
| 19:33 | Scriptor | I feel like this is one of the big things you'll have to clarify about clojurescript |
| 19:33 | Scriptor | that it already comes with a js library, Closure's lib |
| 19:48 | mjg123 | Same jsonp-ajax as before with gclosure instead of jquery - https://gist.github.com/1098521 - much nicer! |
| 19:52 | seancorfield | is there anyone involved with ClojureScript based on the West Coast? |
| 19:52 | seancorfield | in the preso, it looked like everyone involved was East Coast...? |
| 19:52 | pmbauer | devn is Wisconsin ... not west but not east |
| 19:54 | seancorfield | was hoping someone was close enough to come talk to the Bay Area Clojure User Group :) |
| 19:54 | pmbauer | seancorfield: So are you saying there's an "east coast bias" ;) ? |
| 19:54 | seancorfield | someone from core asked if i'd like to "drop by the office" one friday and do some group hacking on clojure.java.jdbc... |
| 19:55 | seancorfield | i was flattered but felt the 3,000 flight (each way!) was a bit too much for a day in the office :D |
| 19:55 | seancorfield | 3,000 mile |
| 19:55 | pmbauer | mjg123: win |
| 19:55 | seancorfield | still, looking forward to that trip in november for the Conj... |
| 19:56 | pmbauer | Were at (first clojure-conj)? |
| 19:56 | seancorfield | no :*( |
| 19:57 | seancorfield | i had conflicts and couldn't make it (i was already committed to be in ABQ and then LA that week) |
| 19:57 | seancorfield | i did get the T shirt tho' :) (thanx to my friend Roger Austin) |
| 19:57 | pmbauer | seancorfield: so many crazy smart people in one room ... ridiculous |
| 19:57 | seancorfield | yeah, i was dead jealous! |
| 19:58 | seancorfield | i got an email asking if world singles wanted to submit talks for the conj but we're doing such ordinary stuff i didn't think it was a good fit... |
| 19:59 | seancorfield | persistence, logging, log file analysis... it's just kinda general purpose stuff |
| 20:06 | dnolen_ | fun graphic, https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/graphs/traffic |
| 20:07 | tarcieri | technomancy: you around? |
| 20:11 | jodaro | rad |
| 20:11 | jodaro | :gen-class rescued me today |
| 20:11 | jodaro | uh |
| 20:11 | jodaro | i think |
| 20:13 | jodaro | and i was just minutes away from giving up and writing java |
| 20:14 | mjg123 | So do the google closure folks have their own IRC channel? |
| 20:16 | Scriptor | mjg123: there's a (very) small one at ##closure-tools |
| 20:17 | mjg123 | Scriptor: ta |
| 20:18 | mjg123 | lol - kicked immediately - invite-only channel |
| 20:20 | mjg123 | Scriptor: just trying to find the event to listen for that indicates dom-has-loaded... |
| 20:20 | Scriptor | mjg123: are you sure? I'm still in it, maybe you have to be identified with nickserv? |
| 20:22 | Scriptor | mjg123: try this: http://groups.google.com/group/closure-library-discuss/browse_thread/thread/545fd2e335ba26d1 |
| 20:30 | jodaro | sounds like some of you are here, so ... |
| 20:30 | jodaro | where does the bay area clojure group meet? |
| 20:47 | technomancy | tarcieri: about to head out, but go ahead |
| 20:53 | tarcieri | technomancy: have you had any reports of emacs-starter-kit not working on Lion? |
| 20:54 | pmbauer | clojurescript really doesn't use any JS, github tells me so :) http://twitpic.com/5tqmdj |
| 21:24 | seancorfield | i'm working on code that seems to have a mix of ^String and #^String type hints - what's the difference? |
| 21:27 | tomoj | one is newer |
| 21:28 | dsantiago | ^String is the preferred way to do it. |
| 21:28 | seancorfield | does that work for 1.2 as well as 1.3? |
| 21:29 | seancorfield | i'm trying to keep this code 1.2 compatible :( |
| 21:29 | dsantiago | Yes |
| 21:29 | seancorfield | tx! |
| 21:30 | methods | how can an anonymous function call it self ? i believe that's what paul graham was saying in , 'the roots of lisp' when he talked about the y-combinator ? |
| 21:31 | dsantiago | Well, an anonymous function can give itself a name to call itself, if you look at the args to fn. |
| 21:39 | sritchie | ,({"one" 1 "two" 2} "three" 3) |
| 21:39 | clojurebot | 3 |
| 21:39 | sritchie | cool, just checking |
| 21:59 | ahriman53072 | just checking what? |
| 22:19 | ckirkendall | Quick question would we consider the following a bug. In the clojure documentation is says that if you don't implement a method of an interface when doing a gen-class it should throw an UnsupportedOperationException, however if you extend a abstract class that implements and interface but doesn't implement all the methods you will receive a java.lang.AbstractMethod.Error if you don't implement the method. |
| 22:21 | ambrosebs | anyone got vimclojure working for clojure 1.3? |
| 22:22 | sjl | If anyone wants to poke around with my pre-pre-pre-alpha Clojure Minecraft bot framework I'd love advice -- I'm pretty new to Clojure so I'm sure there are things I'm doing wrong. |
| 22:22 | sjl | It's at https://github.com/sjl/clojurecraft |
| 22:44 | technomancy | tarcieri: I haven't heard anything yet |
| 22:45 | technomancy | methods: the y combinator is the classic way to get recursion with anonymous functions, but clojure can have anonymous functions that have internal names: |
| 22:45 | technomancy | ,(let [f (fn anonymous [] anonymous)] (= f (f))) |
| 22:45 | clojurebot | true |
| 22:46 | tarcieri | technomancy: okay, so I have a totally clean computer here, just installed the latest "Emacs for OS X", cloning emacs-starter-kit, let's see if I get the same results |
| 22:47 | tarcieri | "Emacs" is an application downloaded from the Internet FEAR!#$!! |
| 22:47 | tufflax | methods: here's a goot explaination of the y combinator http://mvanier.livejournal.com/2897.html |
| 22:48 | tarcieri | uhh, wtf |
| 22:48 | tarcieri | yeah I have no idea what's going on at this point |
| 22:53 | tarcieri | so I got everything running earlier today on another computer by copying my coworker's config |
| 22:53 | tarcieri | he showed me over Skype what it's supposed to look like |
| 22:54 | tarcieri | when you start up for the first time |
| 22:54 | tarcieri | except when I tried to start from scratch it gibbed hardcore and continued gibbing |
| 22:54 | rimmjob_ | i'm trying to set up lein and when i use lein swank i get "that's not a task" |
| 22:54 | rimmjob_ | did i do something wrong? |
| 22:54 | tarcieri | now it's like I don't even have a .emacs.d |
| 22:56 | technomancy | tarcieri: you could try the v2 branch |
| 22:56 | technomancy | if you have emacs 24 |
| 22:56 | tarcieri | it's 23.3 |
| 22:56 | tarcieri | the latest on the "Emacs for OS X" site |
| 22:57 | tarcieri | which the readme says should work |
| 22:57 | tarcieri | I just can't fucking believe this |
| 22:57 | tarcieri | I'm seeing 3 different results in 1 day |
| 22:57 | tarcieri | for a clean install |
| 22:57 | technomancy | there's always nightlies for 24: http://emacsformacosx.com/builds |
| 22:57 | technomancy | I've been running it since 23 was released |
| 22:57 | tarcieri | sure, WHY NOT |
| 22:57 | technomancy | yeah, well os x is not really known for supporting repeatable program installation |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | so far today my opinion of Emacs has gone from a mild distaste to "oh my god what the fuck is this shit" |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | uhh |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | dude |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | no? |
| 22:58 | technomancy | well, what you're describing sounds a lot like the last time I used a mac |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | my general experience with OS X is if you stay on the happy path all is well |
| 22:58 | technomancy | lasted three days |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | I'm trying to stay on the happy path here |
| 22:58 | tarcieri | and... uhh |
| 22:59 | technomancy | four full wipes of macports in three days and I gave up |
| 22:59 | tarcieri | macports sucks |
| 22:59 | seancorfield | i hear bad things about macports |
| 22:59 | tarcieri | that doesn't even factor into the equation here though |
| 22:59 | tarcieri | I just downloaded a .dmg |
| 22:59 | tarcieri | cloned a git repository |
| 22:59 | tarcieri | saw my coworker do the EXACT SAME THING |
| 22:59 | technomancy | what I'm saying is without a proper package manager, it's all guesswork |
| 23:00 | tarcieri | so far, works for him! |
| 23:00 | tarcieri | what's lacking about a "proper package manager"? |
| 23:00 | tarcieri | I insalled a NeXT bundle |
| 23:00 | seancorfield | must admit, i did not think much of any of the emacs distros on OS X |
| 23:00 | seancorfield | so i went back to Eclipse + CCW |
| 23:01 | tarcieri | at this point I'm kind of like fuck it, I'll try my coworker's config again |
| 23:01 | tarcieri | but right now it feels like Emacs isn't even loading my .emacs.d |
| 23:01 | seancorfield | emacs was my core editor back in the 17/18/19 days... but it seems really primitive to me these days... |
| 23:02 | ckirkendall | @rimmjob_ you need to make sure you include the following in your project file. :dev-dependencies[[swank-clojure "1.2.1"]] |
| 23:03 | technomancy | rimmjob_: have you read through the swank-clojure readme? |
| 23:03 | technomancy | tarcieri: usually that's caused by the presence of a ~/.emacs file outside ~/.emacs.d |
| 23:04 | ckirkendall | once you have set the :dev-dependencies then you need to make sure you lein deps before you do lein swank |
| 23:04 | tarcieri | technomancy: oh ho! |
| 23:04 | tarcieri | that may be the problem |
| 23:05 | tarcieri | holy fucking shit |
| 23:05 | tarcieri | I think it's working |
| 23:05 | ambrosebs | I remember that feeling :) |
| 23:06 | tarcieri | it's like, downloading and installing stuff |
| 23:06 | mattmitchell | anyone here familiar with midje? i can't figure out why this doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/1098809 |
| 23:08 | mattmitchell | just added the result as a comment to that gist... |
| 23:11 | qbg | I want to try ClojureScript, but I get java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: sun.org.mozilla.javascript.internal.Context *sigh* |
| 23:11 | tarcieri | hooooly crap |
| 23:11 | tarcieri | so after closing and reopening Emacs like 5 times |
| 23:11 | tarcieri | when various downloads failed |
| 23:11 | tarcieri | it now loads without errors |
| 23:11 | tarcieri | :D |
| 23:12 | tarcieri | that's how I was told it was supposed to work |
| 23:14 | technomancy | has anyone tried medusa? |
| 23:15 | technomancy | aw geez. never mind. https://github.com/amitrathore/medusa/blob/master/src/org/rathore/amit/medusa/core.clj |
| 23:17 | kephale | oh neat… i've been looking for a way to control the size of the threadpool |
| 23:18 | technomancy | well, you can probably do that better without bringing in a library like this |
| 23:21 | technomancy | I mean, it may work OK, but there are warning flags all over this; it looks sloppy. |
| 23:21 | kephale | mmm, it looks like most functions in medusa are just exposing Executors |
| 23:22 | technomancy | yeah, I wish Clojure exposed more flexibility with the agent pools |
| 23:22 | mattmitchell | ok, i was using wrong version of midje. only took an hour to figure that out. ugh. |
| 23:22 | kephale | wouldn't one actually want a concurrency library like this to replace existing clojure functions? |
| 23:23 | kephale | errr override |
| 23:23 | technomancy | kephale: yeah, like a flexible-agents/flexible-futures |
| 23:25 | kephale | sounds good |
| 23:25 | ckirkendall | technomancy: high on my list would be agents that had a fixed pool that we could set as demons. |
| 23:25 | ckirkendall | daemons |
| 23:25 | ahriman53072 | ÷¸ |
| 23:34 | chouser | The video of Rich's ClojureScript announcement is up: http://blip.tv/clojure/rich-hickey-unveils-clojurescript-5399498 |
| 23:35 | Scriptor | by the way, what's the [ANN] tag, project release announcements? |
| 23:43 | rimmjob_ | ckirkendall: thank you, that worked |
| 23:50 | ckirkendall | rimmjob_: your welcome |
