#clojure – 2011-05-28

2011-05-28

00:01	scottj	anyone know with swt do you have to make 6 versions of your app (win/mac/lin/32/64) or include all 6 of those in one jar?
05:11	Vinzent	is there something for dealing with zip archives?
05:12	Kneferilis	Hello!
05:13	Kneferilis	is clojure for .NET stable?
05:29	bpr	why would (:use [ring.middleware.params :only [wrap-params]]) cause this compile error: error: java.lang.Exception: lib names inside prefix lists must not contain periods
05:42	Kneferilis	I was wondering how Common Lisp compares to clojure, some input please?
05:45	bpr	I am still quite new to clojure, but so far I've found clojure to be much better. This is mainly due to the massive number of libraries that are available, and how easy it is to make use of them via lieningen and sites like clojars.org
05:45	bpr	I don't have hard numbers like performance difference for various algorithms etc.
05:46	bpr	you may want to take a look at: http://blip.tv/clojure/clojure-for-lisp-programmers-part-1-1319721
05:47	bpr	and http://blip.tv/clojure/clojure-for-lisp-programmers-part-2-1319826
05:49	Vinzent	Kneferilis, clojure definitely has a better infrastructure than CL. Also, I think it's much more clear and consistent.
05:50	bpr	the immutable data structures and concurrency constructs are a huge win imo
05:50	Kneferilis	Vinzent: clojure for .net can use clojars?
05:51	Vinzent	Kneferilis, never tried .net, but anyway, i think jar files is specific for java
05:52	Kneferilis	Vinzent: you can convert them with IKVM to .NE Dlls
05:54	Kneferilis	Vinzent: ok, thanks for the information
07:14	bpr	why might i be getting "Could not locate clj_facebook_graph/auth__init.class or clj_facebook_graph/auth.clj on classpath" when I try to compile my app?
07:14	bpr	I do have clj-facebook-graph-0.2.0.jar in my lib directory
07:15	bpr	and my project.clj has [clj-facebook-graph "0.2.0"] in the :dependencies
07:16	bpr	this is my ns: (ns mungo.core (use: [ring.util.response :only [redirect]]
07:16	bpr	[ring.middleware.stacktrace :only [wrap-stacktrace-web]]
07:16	bpr	[ring.middleware.params :only [wrap-params]]
07:16	bpr	[ring.middleware.session :only [wrap-session]]
07:16	bpr	[ring.middleware.session.memory :only [memory-store]]
07:16	bpr	[ring.handler.dump :only [handle-dump]]
07:16	bpr
07:16	bpr	[clj-facebook-graph.auth :only [facebook-auth-url with-facebook-auth]])
07:16	fliebel	bpr: And the file auth.clj file is there?
07:16	bpr	I'm done spamming now :-p
07:16	bpr	yeah
07:16	bpr	i unzipped the jar to be sure
07:17	fliebel	hm, that's weird.
07:17	fliebel	have you tried turning it off an on again?
07:17	bpr	you mean the clojure instance? yes
07:17	fliebel	or, (System/getProperty "java.class.path")?
07:18	bpr	interesting, let me check that
07:18	bpr	yeah the jar is listed in there
07:19	bpr	let me unzip it again and be sure there's nothing subtle that i missed
07:19	fliebel	hm, does importing another file work?
07:19	fliebel	Sometimes it's just a silly type on the ns....
07:19	bpr	inflating: fbg/clj_facebook_graph/auth.clj (where fbg is the directory i unzipped it to)
07:20	bpr	let me try importing a diff file from the jar
07:20	bpr	wow, that worked...
07:21	bpr	fliebel: thanks for the tip
07:23	bpr	hrm, it seems the with-facebook-auth symbol was the problem... i don't know what was wrong with it
09:44	bpr	how can i check if a namespace exists at runtime?
09:45	bpr	I want to do this because I'm writing code that may be executed in Google App Engine and it does not have javax.net.ssl.HttpsURLConnection
09:46	bpr	I'd like to be able to detect that case and use the code provided by Google to get an https connection
09:48	opqdonut	bpr: ns-resolve ?
09:49	opqdonut	or find-ns, rather
09:50	bpr	i've tried find-ns, it doesn't seem to be it
09:51	bpr	because even (find-ns 'java.lang) ==> nil
09:52	bpr	so i think maybe the best way is to try to do (require 'javax.net.ssl.HttpsURLConnection) and catch the exception if it's thrown
09:56	opqdonut	ah, so you're not looking for a clojure namespace but a java package/class
09:57	bpr	yeah
09:57	bpr	sorry for the mangled terminology there
09:57	opqdonut	you could maybe ask the ClassLoader
09:58	opqdonut	but, of course, all the nice methods are protected...
09:58	bpr	interresting
09:59	opqdonut	the only public one that's of interest seems to be loadClass, which then throws a ClassNotFoundException if it doesn't find the class
09:59	opqdonut	so that's not any better than using import from clojure
09:59	bpr	that could work
10:00	opqdonut	import + catch is probably good enough
10:00	bpr	ok
10:00	bpr	i'll give that a shot
10:12	fliebel	My father got 2 robotic arms from a school. They have LPT ports. Does nyone have any idea how to control these?
10:37	raek	,(resolve 'java.lang.Integer)
10:37	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
10:37	raek	,(resolve 'java.lang.DoesNotExist)
10:37	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.lang.DoesNotExist
10:38	raek	bpr: you could also try java.lang.Class/forName and catch ClassNotFoundException http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#forName(java.lang.String)
10:40	gfrlog	Clojure doesn't have a var I can set for a (Math/random) instance to use with (rand-nth), does it?
10:40	gfrlog	I have some randomized code that I would like to be able to test deterministically
10:41	gfrlog	without mucking up the non-test code
10:41	gfrlog	I guess I could rebind (rand-nth) in the tests, if nothing else :-/
10:42	bpr	raek: thanks
12:14	mrBliss	Oh yeah, I'm no. 1 on 4clojure.com!
12:25	robonobo	Is there any documentation on how to include and use resources in a leiningen uberjar?
12:48	raek	robonobo: well, everything in the resources/ directory is inlcuded in the jar. you can use (def r (clojure.java.io/resource "foo/bar.txt")) to get a special URL to the file, which you can then use to open it, like this (clojure.java.io/reader r) or this (slurp r)
12:53	robonobo	raek: that works, thanks.
12:53	raek	unfortunately, I'm not aware of any pages that explains this scenario, but the concepts involved are basically putting things on the classpath, getting a url to the thing on the classpath, and opening a stream from a url
12:53	robonobo	it's kinda confusing
12:53	robonobo	the leiningen documentation doesn't say anything about resources other than how to set the path
12:53	robonobo	but anyway
12:53	robonobo	thanks
12:54	raek	it basically just another src/
13:17	Kneferilis	Hello.
13:18	Kneferilis	anyone with exprerience with clojure on .NET?
13:25	Kneferilis	can someone explain to me, why use clojure instead of common lisp?
13:27	Kneferilis	anyone?
13:27	clojurebot	Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with <some program or library>. Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help.
13:28	fliebel	Kneferilis: I inly know it doesn;t work on mono.
13:28	raek	Kneferilis: well-defined concurrency semantics for things that can mutate, persistent data structures, and interop with the jvm are some arguments
13:28	fliebel	... what raek said
13:29	Kneferilis	raek: but why someone use clojure instead of common lisp or the opposite?
13:29	Kneferilis	sorry, I just noticed I asked that
13:29	raek	if your app will (eventually) need both states and multiple threads, then Clojure rules
13:29	raek	*changing state
13:29	Kneferilis	and where is common lisp better than closure?
13:32	rlb	Kneferilis: I imagine that some common lisp's may be faster, and they may provide better built-in support for lower-level operations on a particular platform. Though the jvm has gotten better in that respect (i.e. symlinks).
13:32	raek	Kneferilis: ... oh, and to the clojure over cl arguments, add The Sequence Abstraction
13:33	raek	the fact that CL has a standard could be an argument fo CL too
13:33	Kneferilis	I see.
13:34	rlb	Kneferilis: also for better and worse, common lisp has a giant library, though for many modern (especially web-oriented) bits, when you include the jvm, I'd imagine clojure has the upper hand.
13:35	rlb	Though it's been quite a while since I worked in common lisp heavily, so I'm not up on the current state of the world.
13:36	raek	I guess the condition system and debugging is more simpler in CL, but it's getting better in Clojure
13:36	raek	probably a lot simpler
13:37	Kneferilis	how does clojure compare to F#?
13:37	rlb	I imagine the decision would often be clear, given the particular project, and the particular target platform.
13:37	rlb	i.e. if you need to deploy somewhere the jvm doesn't exist, but one of the common lisps does...
13:37	rlb	etc.
13:38	rlb	Don't know anything about F#.
13:39	Kneferilis	ok
13:42	churib	which version of swank should i use with the current version of clojure-slime?
13:43	churib	swank <--> slime
13:45	amalloy	bpr: http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.3/docs/api/java/lang/Package.html#getPackage(java.lang.String)
13:49	amalloy	churib: it's hard to nail down versions, because apparently the slime devs think releases are lame
13:50	raek	churib: if you follow this approach, you get a slime version that works for the swank version you are using: http://technomancy.us/149
13:50	carllerche	Does anybody know of a resumable json parser for clojure? As far as I can tell, the one in contrib blocks for input.
13:51	churib	raek: thanks - i will try that one
13:52	amalloy	carllerche: huh? how could it not block?
13:52	raek	carllerche: could you explain how you would like to use such a parser?
13:52	carllerche	amalloy: returns a state
13:52	amalloy	oh, resumable
13:52	carllerche	or tracks state somehow
13:52	amalloy	i read that as reasonable
13:52	carllerche	hehe :)
13:53	raek	one hackish way to use the contrib one could be to pass data to a PipedInputStream that the parser can read from
13:55	carllerche	yeah... but it seems to be a reasonable thing to have. I'm not sure if it would be better to try to write a resumable parser for clojure or try to use a java one since the java ones would parse to some java structure and then it would have to be converted to clojure data structures
13:55	carllerche	i should see if aleph has anything
13:55	amalloy	i'm still not really clear how it would be useful to you. you want to get out the partial results and work with them somehow?
13:56	raek	carllerche: so you want to feed it data that might not make a complete json object, and get back as many object as could be parsed?
13:57	carllerche	I'm dealing w/ large json objects & netty. It seems better to stream the chunks into the parser as opposed to buffer all the chunks then parse all at once
13:57	carllerche	but, it could probably go either way
13:57	raek	carllerche: fn-parse is a functional parsing library that has a json parser as an example. it will return its state.
13:58	carllerche	raek: huh, looks interesting. I'll look into it. Either way, worst case is buffer all the chunks before parsing which isn't _terrible_ in this case
14:09	amalloy	haha congrats mrBliss
14:20	mrBliss	amalloy: How can I see the code golf histograms without resubmitting my solutions?
14:20	amalloy	mrBliss: fork the github repo and add the feature :P
14:21	amalloy	not strictly true, i guess
14:22	amalloy	https://4clojure.com/leagues/golf/2 will show you all the scores but with no marker for where you stand
14:23	mrBliss	amalloy: nice. Are the solutions stored or just the scores?
14:23	amalloy	mrBliss: we started storing solutions after we started storing scores
14:23	amalloy	and we don't actually store your best scoring solution, but rather the one you entered most recently
14:24	mrBliss	amalloy: it'd be nice to compare solutions like on projecteuler :-)
14:25	amalloy	mrBliss: well you seem to be better at clojure than dbyrne or me, so make it happen!
14:26	mrBliss	amalloy: I should be studying for my exams though ;-) When I find some time, I'll see what I can do.
14:55	dnolen	fliebel: did you sae my comment about your core.logic patch?
14:55	dnolen	s/sae/see
14:55	sexpbot	<dnolen> fliebel: did you see my comment about your core.logic patch?
15:26	fliebel	dnolen: no?
15:26	dnolen	fliebel: check it out, you should bring the args bit back, I explain in the comment on your patch.
15:26	fliebel	I'm looking at it now.
15:27	fliebel	So they should just be no-ops now? sure... I'll have another patch in a few secs.
15:27	dnolen	simple type inference for the simply typed lambda calc in core.logic, port of stack overflow Prolog solution, https://gist.github.com/997140
15:27	dnolen	fliebel: thx.
15:28	fliebel	dnolen: stu said that for a patch to core clojure, I had to use a different format, should I do this for you as well?
15:29	dnolen	fliebel: yeah, to get attribution info.
15:29	fliebel	ok
15:29	fliebel	dnolen: How do I run the tests?
15:29	dnolen	fliebel: mvn test
15:33	fliebel	dnolen: Still some failures...
15:33	dnolen	fliebel: related to what?
15:34	fliebel	dnolen: It's because the new fact takes a vector and now & args I think.
15:34	fliebel	*bot
15:34	fliebel	*not
15:35	hugod	my first logic code https://gist.github.com/996901 - any critique appreciated
15:35	dnolen	fliebel: I don't see an immediate advantage in taking a vector, we have apply.
15:35	fliebel	dnolen: It's just that protocols dont support varargs
15:36	dnolen	fliebel: protocol fact -> fact*, then define fact which calls it.
15:37	fliebel	dnolen: hm, could do that... not all to hapy with it, but I guess it's better that way.
15:38	dnolen	hugod: interesting! what advantage do you see for using core.logic here ? :)
15:39	hugod	dnolen: it is a simplified at the moment - I want to be able to match multiple rules to build the final map
15:40	hugod	and ideally spec2 would be built from a plain data structure, that can be built from data in config files
15:41	dnolen	hugod: for complex rules, core.logic is useful. One thing I don't like is that core.logic is closed, I wonder if a robust pattern matching would work better for your usage ?
15:42	dnolen	hugod: so you're planning on introduction conditionals of some sort that make multimethods a poor fit?
15:42	dnolen	introduction -> introducing
15:43	dnolen	fliebel: yeah, I don't really see any other way, and it's not so bad IMO.
15:44	fliebel	dnolen: What about invoke? I can't go around implementing all 16 versions of it, I hope?
15:45	dnolen	fliebel: ? fact* takes a seq, fact will create that seq via rest arg.
15:45	fliebel	dnolen: I mean, rel implements ifn. If I want that to work with varargs, I need to implement all 20 versions.
15:46	fliebel	(likes x y)
15:47	fliebel	But possibly also (likes t u v w x y z)
15:48	hugod	dnolen: multimethods won't work - need to be able to specify default os-family for a provider, default image-id for a specific os-family for a provider, and :image-id's for :os-family :os-version combinations, image-id's for :os-family :os-version :hardware-id combinations, translations from :cpu-count and :min-ram to hardware size, network topology, etc
15:49	dnolen	hugod: I see, this is cool. Love to hear feedback as this evolves.
15:50	hugod	dnolen: sure - I'm also thinking about using it for exception filtering in swank-clj
15:50	fliebel	Is there any way to implement IFn with varargs without implementing all 20?
15:51	dnolen	fliebel: hmm ... yeah I agree lets avoid the invoke limits. Can you fix the tests as well in your patch?
15:51	dnolen	(fact name [a b c]) is OK w/ me.
15:51	fliebel	dnolen: Okay, so I just fix the tests rather than my code?
15:51	dnolen	fliebel: yes.
15:53	fliebel	dnolen: So should I make it (defrel man ['p]) as well?
15:54	dnolen	fliebel: actually I think we should think about this some more ...
15:54	dnolen	fliebel: it would be useful to describe relations that dispatch on arity ...
15:55	fliebel	dnolen: I can't think anymore now. Timezones, you know. I'll just upload this patch and think about it later, or in my sleep probably.
15:55	dnolen	fliebel: np, I'll ponder it as well.
15:57	fliebel	??? git made me 2 patch files.
16:00	amalloy	fliebel: one per commit, no?
16:00	fliebel	amalloy: Yea, but why would it do that? Not very useful...
16:00	amalloy	uh. that seems a lot more useful than the alternative
16:01	amalloy	if you want just one patch file, rebase it down to one commit
16:01	fliebel	$google git rebase
16:01	sexpbot	First out of 7420 results is: git-rebase(1)
16:01	sexpbot	http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-rebase.html
16:03	arohner	anyone have a clever way to stick an 'if' test into a ->> expression?
16:04	arohner	like (->> foo (bar) (if x (baz) (bogus)), but have it do what I mean?
16:05	arohner	I already have apply-if, I supposed I could make an arrow version
16:05	amalloy	fliebel: $ git rebase -i dnolen/master (or whatever you call his branch)
16:06	amalloy	then in the editor that appears, replace "pick" with "squash" in any commits you want to fold into earlier commits
16:07	fliebel	amalloy: I did that, but at first I failed :( Now I did it I think.
16:07	amalloy	fliebel: yeah, i can never find the right args to supply to a rebase :P
16:08	fliebel	dnolen: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/LOGIC-2
16:08	imade	zipmap is kinda evil ,(vals (zipmap (range 1 6) [1 2 3 4 5]))
16:09	imade	wait, how do I invoke the clojure evaluator here?
16:09	fliebel	dnolen: What do you mean with dispatch based on arity?
16:09	imade	,(vals (zipmap (range 1 6) [1 2 3 4 5]))
16:09	clojurebot	(5 4 3 2 1)
16:09	imade	ah there we go
16:09	imade	it returns in reverse order
16:09	fliebel	imade: ampersand, comma, or double hash.
16:10	fliebel	where ##(+1 1) cal also be used in the middle of a sentence. comma is for clojurebot, and ampersand is for sexpbot.
16:10	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
16:13	gfrlog	imade: a map doesn't have a defined order, so you shouldn't expect any particular behavior from (vals)
16:13	fliebel	dnolen: You mean you want to be able to do ((rel [[2 2] [1 2 3]]) [q 2 3]) -> (1)
16:13	fliebel	questionmark
16:16	imade	so is there another way to zip together indexes and values without loosing order? [[1 :a] [2 :b] [3 :c]]
16:17	imade	I guess I could use map-indexed
16:17	imade	,(map-indexed #(vector %1 %2) [1 2 3 4 5])
16:17	clojurebot	([0 1] [1 2] [2 3] [3 4] [4 5])
16:17	gfrlog	imade: I believe a sorted map would accomplish that. Personally I've never had to use one, so I'm curious what you're doing.
16:18	fliebel	$findfn [[1 :a] [2 :b] [3 :c]] {1 :a 2 :b 3 :c}
16:18	sexpbot	[]
16:18	imade	I am solving the 99 prolog problems, nr 16 in particular
16:18	gfrlog	oh. I'm not familiar with them.
16:18	fliebel	$findfn {} [[1 :a] [2 :b] [3 :c]] {1 :a 2 :b 3 :c}
16:18	sexpbot	[clojure.core/into]
16:19	gfrlog	I guess if you're doing exercizes then you probably wouldn't want too much high-level advice anyhow.
16:19	imade	:)
16:19	amalloy	imade: yeah, just map vector
16:19	imade	I think I had a lightbulb just now above my head
16:19	amalloy	&(map vector [1 2 3] [:a :b :c])
16:19	sexpbot	⟹ ([1 :a] [2 :b] [3 :c])
16:19	gfrlog	imade: that's kind of awkward lighting
16:20	imade	:D
16:20	amalloy	imade: shameless plug here: have you tried www.4clojure.com? interactive tutorials, some of them pulled from 99 lisp problems
16:20	gfrlog	imade: I guess the summary is that there are a handful of ways to represent pairs, depending on what you need to do with them
16:21	gfrlog	amalloy: have you no shame?
16:21	imade	I looked that no-one has solved the 99 prolog problems in clojure all the way to 99, so I try to accomplish that
16:21	fliebel	imade: How far are you?
16:22	imade	16
16:23	imade	I think it would be good if newcomers like me have as many resources as possible to practice
16:23	imade	currently it's a private repo, but if anyone is interested to help along then I could make it public
16:27	imade	I noticed that there have been other attempts, but no one has finished it all the way to 99, so I am commited to do that
16:28	dnolen	fliebel: Prolog supports the notion of like/1, like/2, like/3 etc. It would be nice to be able to do the same in core.logic. The more I think about it, the more I think that's the direction to go.
16:28	imade	I made it public https://github.com/imade/clojure-99
16:29	imade	so if anyone wants to contribute let me know, I can give commit rights, besides it would be really helpful if I get feedback also, I am a lisp newbie
16:29	fliebel	dnolen: What would that do in Prolog? I've only encountered it while importing stuff in Erlang.
16:30	imade	haskell, scala prolog and CL have been solved all the way to 99, so Clojure deserves it too, cause it's a fun and awesome language
16:30	dnolen	fliebel: it just means that the like relation supports multiple arity is all. right now defrel doesn't, even though goals support it because of multiple arity support.
16:31	dnolen	fliebel: I'm heading out, will ruminate on this and get back to you.
16:59	imade	can anyone review my solution to problem 16 or maybe come up with more concise solution? here's the link https://github.com/imade/clojure-99/blob/master/src/clojure_99/problem16.clj and test https://github.com/imade/clojure-99/blob/master/test/clojure_99/test/problem16.clj
17:07	amalloy	imade: sent a pull request just now
17:07	imade	k I check it out
17:09	imade	whoa, nice concise solution! I will run it through the unit test too just in case
17:09	amalloy	it won't behave the same way as yours when n=1
17:09	amalloy	but that's because yours is imo wrong :P
17:11	amalloy	oh, yes it will. i read your zero-check as a one-check, sorry
17:12	imade	I get an exception with (drop-nth4 [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10] 3)
17:13	amalloy	oh, i wrote it as n coll, not coll n
17:13	amalloy	&(doc drop-nth)
17:13	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: drop-nth in this context
17:13	amalloy	&(doc take-nth)
17:13	sexpbot	⟹ "([n coll]); Returns a lazy seq of every nth item in coll."
17:13	amalloy	since that's the way clojure arguments are ordered usually :P
17:15	imade	yep I need to read some coding conventions then I will do a code review for myself
17:17	imade	(drop-nth4 [1 2 3] 0) creates neverending loop
17:17	amalloy	mhm. as you can see i didn't do a zero check. feel free if you want
17:17	imade	yep
17:18	amalloy	but "drop every zeroth element" doesn't really have a clear meaning
17:18	imade	you're right, it's a fine line how error resilient these solutions should be, maybe I should ease it up a bit, like expect valid input
17:53	imade	amalloy: I'm studying your solution, you're using recursion, but in this form it will consume stack as it goes deeper, right?
17:54	amalloy	no, because i wrapped it with lazy-seq
17:55	amalloy	piling concat on top of concat can be problematic sometimes though, so you might try it out for, say, 10k elements
17:58	imade	seems to be very fast with 10k elements
18:00	imade	I'm trying to wrap my head around how come this solution doesn't consume stack, lazy-seq source doesn't use recur or smth like that
18:03	raek	when (lazy-seq ...) is evaluated, the inner code is not evaluated, but put into a LazySeq object, which is returned
18:03	raek	so one level of the stack is popped right there
18:04	raek	when you call seq on the LazySeq object, it will return (cons some-element (lazy-seq ...)) and the process is repeated
18:04	imade	ah ok, so it's solved in deep level, in bear guts
18:04	raek	you could say that 'seq' and 'lazy-seq' works as a trampoline
18:06	imade	I am looking clojure.lang.LazySeq source now, it's all java :)
18:11	imade	I guess I need more experience to know when certain algorithm is consuming stack or not, so far I thought the only way to to recursion is with recur, but as it turns out amalloy's solution also uses recursive definition but without consuming stack
18:12	raek	yes, lazy-seqs have this property too
19:22	Kneferilis	Hello!
19:22	Kneferilis	Is there anything wrong with this code: (ns user) (defn foo [a b] (str a \" \" b)) ?
19:22	amalloy	Kneferilis: looks fine to me
19:23	Kneferilis	I see.
19:24	amalloy	&(let [foo (fn [a b] (str a \" \" b))] (foo 1 2))
19:24	sexpbot	⟹ "1\"\"2"
19:24	amalloy	assuming that's the output you want
19:27	Kneferilis	anything wrong with this?
19:27	Kneferilis	http://pastebin.com/BtP11JWy
19:31	amalloy	yes
19:32	Kneferilis	what is wrong?
19:32	amalloy	it doesn't do the same thing as your clojure example because the escaping of the "s isn't the same
19:33	amalloy	i don't really write clj/java interop from the java side, but doesn't RT.var want symbols, not strings?
19:33	amalloy	no, i guess it wants strings
19:34	Kneferilis	ok
19:35	amalloy	but you'd probably get more useful help if you said "here's some code that i think should do X but isn't; it's doing Y instead"
19:36	amalloy	rather than asking someone to guess whether it "works"
19:39	gfrlog	here's some code that I think should throw an out-of-memory error, but isn't; it's serving a complex and lucrative web application instead.
19:45	Kneferilis	I have a file foo.cjlit only has the text: (ns user) (defn foo [a b] (str a \" \" b)) in it, is it correct?
19:45	Kneferilis	I have a file foo.cjl it only has the text: (ns user) (defn foo [a b] (str a \" \" b)) in it, is it correct?
19:49	Kneferilis	does clojure has eval?
19:49	imade	,(doc eval)
19:50	clojurebot	DENIED
19:50	imade	hmm
19:50	imade	http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/eval
19:50	Kneferilis	well, can it use eval if it is called from java?
19:53	Kneferilis	thanks for the information
19:53	Kneferilis	I tried to install clojure on .net, by converting the jar file to dll
19:53	Kneferilis	with ikvm
19:54	Kneferilis	but it didn't work
19:54	Kneferilis	it seems that clojure compiles everything instead of interpreting
19:54	Kneferilis	so, it compiles its script to java bytecodes and that crashes my app, that expects il
19:56	imade	I wish I could help you more, did you look at https://github.com/richhickey/clojure-clr/wiki? it seems to have info how to get clojure running on clr
19:58	imade	,(-> 2 (+ 2))
19:58	clojurebot	4
19:58	imade	,(-> [1 2 3] (split-at 2))
19:58	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
19:59	gfrlog	,(->> [1 2 3] (split-at 2))
19:59	clojurebot	[(1 2) (3)]
20:00	imade	aah, cause with -> it would be like (split-at [...] 2)
20:00	gfrlog	exactly
20:15	Kneferilis	imade: thanks for the information
20:28	Kneferilis	goodnight
20:51	imade	I am searching for a function thrown?, what's the best way to find which namespace it belongs to?
20:51	gfrlog	maybe clojuredocs.org
20:51	gfrlog	I bet there is something better though, which I am too lazy to ever figure out exists
20:52	amalloy	imade: it's not a real function
20:52	amalloy	it's something that clojure.test treats specially in macroexpansions
20:52	imade	k, so I can use thrown when I use clojure.test
20:53	amalloy	yes
20:53	gfrlog	man that's like one step eviler than a macro
20:53	amalloy	srsly
20:53	gfrlog	couldn't it have been done with a (defmacro thrown? ...)?
20:53	amalloy	gfrlog: thrown? probably needs access to information that the outer macro has
20:54	gfrlog	I can't think of why...wouldn't it just need to create a try-catch and a couple (is)es?
20:54	amalloy	i'm not in favor of the choice that was made, but i don't know the background of how clojure.test is implemented so i can't really judge
20:56	gfrlog	I only make judgments prior to reviewing the code
21:05	imade	k, it's 4 a.m here, enough of coding for today, good night
21:07	offby1	wuss
21:07	amalloy	chuckle
21:07	amalloy	#clojure is not for the weak!
21:09	gfrlog	he didn't say for the week, he said for today
21:09	gfrlog	....I'm so sorry
21:13	gfrlog	,(doc keep)
21:13	clojurebot	"([f coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the non-nil results of (f item). Note, this means false return values will be included. f must be free of side-effects."
21:13	gfrlog	I think that last sentence is strange.
21:26	amalloy	agreed, i suppose
21:29	gfrlog	I didn't see anything in the source that looked suspicious, unless I don't understand how chunked seqs work
23:12	offby1	presumably clojure reserves the right to call f more or fewer times than you might expect
23:14	amalloy	offby1: yes. but that's true for a lot of things (eg map) and they don't all mention it; it's sorta implied that if you have side-effectful functions you deserve what you get
23:15	offby1	hmph
23:15	amalloy	(futher, neither keep nor map actually call it more than you expect)