#clojure – 2011-05-27

2011-05-27

00:12	JulioBarros	I'm trying to :use the webmine jar (not just infer now) but I get the message -- java.lang.IllegalAccessError: silent does not exist (message.clj:1)
00:15	tomoj	did you build a webmine jar manually or something?
00:16	tomoj	or did you just add webmine to your lein/cake deps
00:16	tomoj	/maven/whatever
00:16	JulioBarros	Both ways.
00:17	tomoj	do you have "silent" in your message.clj?
00:17	JulioBarros	:) I don't know what that means ... let me check.
00:18	JulioBarros	its essentially a blank lein project with a couple of dependencies added so i can play with the repl
00:18	tomoj	well where is message.clj?
00:18	JulioBarros	I don't think I have a message.clj
00:18	tomoj	I don't see one in webmine
00:19	tomoj	you're using lein?
00:19	tomoj	oh, yes
00:19	JulioBarros	yes. there were some other deps.. let me remove them.
00:19	tomoj	well, if you leave them you can find which has message.clj
00:20	tomoj	ls lib/*.jar \| xargs -n 1 jar tf \| grep message.clj
00:20	tomoj	seems to work
00:22	amalloy	tomoj: neat, i didn't know about the -n option
00:23	amalloy	i'd have written it as $ find lib -name '*.jar' -exec jar tf '{}' \; \| grep message.clj
00:23	JulioBarros	hmm didn't find anything. But removed the lib dir, did a lein deps and seems to be happy now. Thanks. Did not understand the error message
00:24	tomoj	I never learned find
00:24	amalloy	JulioBarros: that's often the case with Errors. Exceptions usually mean "you should have been ready for this or could have prevented it", while errors are "holy cow wut is going on here"
00:24	amalloy	tomoj: a nice pair to xargs. i learned xargs because it was useful for find
00:25	amalloy	but the syntax is arcane and verbose
00:25	amalloy	find . -name '*.svn' -prune -or -type f -print0 \| xargs -0 grep 'testing'
00:26	amalloy	avoids including files under .svn in your grep results
00:27	amalloy	(and also works for filenames that have whitespace in them, thanks to -print0 and -0)
07:21	fliebel	Does anyone know if its possible to send a CA via telefax?
07:23	ejackson	what is this telefax of which you speak ?
07:25	fliebel	ejackson: It's like snailmail, only faster. ;)
07:26	fliebel	But, I just noticed my CA did came through. After over a month, I'm suddenly listed on the contributing page!
07:27	fliebel	manutter: It's just the full name, like a piano is actually called a piano-forte.
07:28	manutter	Ah, I suspected. Around here the full name is "facsimile"
07:28	manutter	which nobody ever uses
07:30	manutter	back to debugging php (sigh)
07:30	fliebel	$mail dnolen wee, I showed up on the CA page. Patch coming soon.
07:30	sexpbot	Message saved.
07:34	fliebel	$mail dnolen You said you had a branch with a project.clj. can haz?
07:34	sexpbot	Message saved.
07:42	jochen	hi, I have a question about jline - it does not work on my mac in console as it always scrambles edits of history values. Any idea how to fix this?
07:45	fliebel	jochen: Install readline?
07:46	fliebel	I've had the same problem in 3 places now, installing readline solves them all.
07:46	fliebel	(3 places, Clojure, Python, Ruby)
07:47	jochen	sounds good. I'll give it a try...
07:49	fliebel	Hm, okay, let me see... a protocol. Does I define the 'this' argument? What's up with varargs?
07:52	tsdh	Is it required (or good practice) to line up namespaces with files and directories, or is that arbitrary?
07:53	clgv	fliebel: protocols do not support varargs - I tried unknowingly and failed with strange errors ;)
07:54	fliebel	clgv: That's what I thought, but since varvargs are implemented as an array in java land anyway, I thought maybe the implementations could do it.
07:54	clgv	fliebel: I didnt find the place were I could put a ticket for it, since I thought that error message had to be fixed to be more explicit
07:55	manutter	tsdh: I believe the reader parses the namespace notation to get the file path for loading the file (in use/require), so I'd say yes, it's mandatory
07:55	clgv	the & of the varargs declaration was interpreted as a parameter symbol '&
07:55	tsdh	manutter: Ok, thanks.
07:58	fliebel	clgv: I know, but if you define [x y] and implement [x & y] the java is going to look like [x OBject...] I think.
07:59	clgv	fliebel: you can try. make a blog post in case you succeed ;)
08:00	fliebel	clgv: will do :)
08:00	tsdh	Should namespaces better use _ or - for compound words? It seems that both work...
08:01	fliebel	fail
08:01	fliebel	tsdh: -, but _ in filenames
08:01	manutter	tsdh: use -- doh, fleibel is too quick
08:01	manutter	what he said.
08:01	tsdh	Allright, thanks.
08:02	fliebel	manutter: Practice your ninja skills, even I am to slow most of the time.
08:03	manutter	The dash is good practice in clojure, but Java requires underscores, which is reflected in the file names. So clojure does the dash-to-underscore mapping automatically in namespaces and filenames
08:03	manutter	fliebel: :)
08:04	fliebel	manutter: Hehe, the StackOverflow rule also applies here. Deep answers beat quick ones.
08:07	manutter	Well, there's a place for both
08:07	fliebel	:)
08:08	fliebel	Anyone knows how to get a quick repl in a clojure project using maven?
08:10	fliebel	hm, seems `rlwrap mvn clojure:repl` works, but... hm, I don't know.
08:12	clgv	rlwrap is great :D
08:15	crystalblue66	www.xxxlivecam.info
08:19	jochen	yea, just dropped jline and used readline/rlwrap and everything is working greate. thanks!
08:32	manutter	wow, installing readline just made jark repl work for me, cool
08:32	manutter	It worked before, but no cursor key functions
08:32	fliebel	manutter: I told you, it makes everything work :)
08:32	manutter	Now if it would just fix this php bug, which unfortunately has nothing whatsoever to do with command histories...
08:38	fliebel	$mail dnolen Done! http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/LOGIC-2
08:38	sexpbot	Message saved.
08:39	fliebel	manutter: I bet it's dynamic scope or weak typing :)
08:39	manutter	not a bad bet, under the best of circumstances :)
08:51	_fogus_	fliebel: You kinda just did. :-)
08:51	fliebel	_fogus_: meh, that's contrib, right?
08:52	fliebel	_fogus_: Now that you're here. What's up with your Forht? You said something about JVM bytecode.
08:52	_fogus_	fliebel: the core.logic stuff has great potential for eventual inclusion IMHO
08:52	_fogus_	(don't quote me)
08:52	manutter	,(quote _fogus_)
08:52	clojurebot	_fogus_
08:52	clgv	lol!
08:52	manutter	Hah, couldn't resist
08:53	clgv	&(don't quote me)
08:53	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: don in this context
08:53	clgv	;(
08:54	manutter	So "Forht" -- typo for "Forth"?
08:54	fliebel	_fogus_: Really? For the dispatch and type stuff? Because logic programming is not something everyone in here is using, it seems.
08:54	fliebel	manutter: yea, I do typos ;)
08:54	manutter	just wondering
08:54	manutter	on a commodore 64 no less
08:55	`fogus	fliebel: That is a long way off, so it's hard to say exactly how it might fit
08:55	`fogus	but that is a good bet
08:56	fliebel	`fogus: Okay, cool :) Right now I'm giving IAtom a try. If I remember correctly, rhickey was at least not against the idea.
08:56	`fogus	fliebel: Hmmm, I'm not familiar
08:57	fliebel	`fogus: Basically Atoms does not have an interface, and I found a valid usecase for wanting one.
08:57	`fogus	Oh. Do you have a repo?
08:58	fliebel	`fogus: repo? why? clojure doesn;t do pull request, right?
08:58	`fogus	Oh, I just meant if you had a branch to look at I would like to see. :-)
08:59	fliebel	`fogus: nothing yet. But uhm, did you read my Forth question?
08:59	`fogus	fliebel: I'm sorry I missed it I think
09:00	fliebel	`fogus: You tweeted about JVM bytecode for your Forth. What was that about, I could only find Ruby.
09:00	`fogus	Oh right!
09:01	`fogus	I was just playing around. Gen'ing JVM bytecode requires you juggle the stack, so I made an awkward parallel to Forth. I guess the joke was not very funny
09:03	fliebel	`fogus: Hm, I thought you where writing a Forth in Java :(
09:03	`fogus	nah
09:04	manutter	too bad, I used to love Forth
09:04	manutter	My copy of the Forth Encyclopedia got destroyed by a leaky basement wall :(
09:04	`fogus	I keep playing with the idea of a froth in Clojure, but that is around #1000000 on my priority list
09:05	`fogus	s/froth/forth/
09:05	sexpbot	<> I keep playing with the idea of a forth in Clojure, but that is around #1000000 on my priority list
09:05	manutter	wow, you've discovered how to anonymize yourself to sexp!
09:06	manutter	Forth in clojure, now that would be fun
09:09	fliebel	When I asked the Forht people, they said that wasn't fun at all and assembly was the only fun way to do it :)
09:11	clgv	humm forth seems to be pretty hard to be spelled correctly, as one can observe here ;)
09:11	manutter	Well, yeah, they WOULD say that, they're Forth people
09:11	manutter	:)
09:12	tufflax	Hm, what is wrong here? http://pastebin.com/AnuuKxGd
09:12	fliebel	clgv: meh, it's just a few things I keep writing wrong.
09:13	clgv	fliebeL: just noticing, not complaining at all ;)
09:13	fliebel	clgv: it;s true. ;)
09:16	tufflax	eww
09:16	Pisketti	Java pays the rent
09:16	Pisketti	As sad as it may sound
09:17	joly	It's a really annoying tenant though
09:23	abedra	`fogus, Fjorth
09:24	`fogus	cljoy
09:24	raek	tufflax: have you compiled the namespace?
09:24	fliebel	abedra: I love that!
09:25	fliebel	PostClojure ;)
09:25	fliebel	We had Lisp machines, but do we have Lisp printers as well?
09:25	jweiss	anyone here use clj-http? looking for a way to get the response body for error statuses like 500. the client just throws Exception
09:31	tufflax	raek yes i think so, anyway it worked when i restarted the repl, don't know exactly what happened :p
09:33	tsdh	If (class x) returns foo.bar.Baz, how is it possible that (Class/forName "foo.bar.Baz") throws a ClassNotFoundException?
09:38	raek	tufflax: gen-class doesn't work well with interactive development in the repl. once the class has been compiled, it can never be changed (due to how the JVM works)
09:39	raek	tufflax: gen-class is designed to be used when you need an interface to your code that a Java program can hook into
09:39	tufflax	raek oh, yeah im noticing more problems now
09:40	raek	tufflax: I would recommend using proxy if you can. it is completely dynamic
09:40	raek	it's built for the reverese situation: when you want clojure code to hook into java code
09:40	tufflax	ok i was about to ask that. but you kind of saw what i was doing, do you think proxy is the right move?
09:41	tufflax	oh, ok then
09:41	tufflax	that sounds right
09:41	tufflax	thank you
09:42	raek	I recall that there are certain things proxy cannot do, but in those cases you can always make a thin wrapper class in java that is more proxy-friendly
09:42	tufflax	ok
09:43	fliebel	I'm sure I wrote down the IAtom problem down somewhere before, but I can't find it. Can someone who understand Jira make sure I don't create a duplicate issue?
09:43	fliebel	This thing doesn't work for me: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa
09:44	manutter	jweiss: I think you can use core/request instead of client/request to get the basic functionality without the built-in error-status->exception stuff.
09:44	manutter	you can add in the appropriate client/wrap-X functions if you need them for like redirects and stuff
09:45	raek	tufflax: but yes, I recommend proxy over gen-class in general, unless you are designing a java api to your project
09:45	manutter	should be able to anyway, never tried it myself.
09:45	jweiss	manutter: actually it looks like in the latest ver you can put the entry :throw-exceptions false in the req map
09:45	jweiss	haven't tried yet, but i see it in the source.
09:45	manutter	sounds promising
09:46	tufflax	raek: thanks again, this made my life much easier :)
09:47	fliebel	~logs
09:47	clojurebot	logs is http://clojure-log.n01se.net/
09:51	raek	tufflax: just remembered the limitation: proxy can't access protected members of its superclass
09:58	fliebel	IAtom issue created: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-803
10:08	tsdh	Argh, how do I call invoke(Object, Object...) on a java.lang.reflect.Method object?
10:08	mefesto	tsdh: i think you need to pass your params as a java array
10:08	tsdh	The signature of the method is foo(String, int, int).
10:09	tsdh	I've tried (.invoke m receiver "foo" 1 1) ==> No matching method found.
10:09	mefesto	(.invoke method target (into-array [p1 p2]))
10:10	tsdh	(.invoke m receiver (into-array Object ["foo" 1 1])) ==> argument type mismatch
10:16	tsdh	Oh, it's a static method. So in fact I should call (.invoke m nil (into-array Object ["foo" 1 1])), but that doesn't change anything.
10:17	tsdh	In Java, the call is graphCreateMethod.invoke(null, "foo", 1, 1) which works fine...
10:20	mefesto	hmmm it seems to work for me using String.indexOf
10:20	mefesto	i'll gist it
10:22	tsdh	Hm, I'm even not able to get the Method Long.parseLong(String, int).
10:22	mefesto	https://gist.github.com/995339
10:22	tsdh	(.getMethod (class Long) "parseLong" (into-array Class [String Integer/TYPE]))
10:22	tsdh	==> NoSuchMethodException
10:22	mefesto	oops
10:23	mefesto	revised: https://gist.github.com/995339
10:24	tsdh	Ah, yeah. s/(class Long)/Long in my code..
10:26	tufflax	raek: yeah i noticed. Hmm, what if I wanted something like proxy but that could access protected members? Am I out of luck?
10:26	tsdh	mefesto: Hm, but somehow, that doesn't do the trick for static methods...
10:28	tsdh	mefesto: http://pastebin.com/sWi8VJL4
10:35	Luyt	heh, I was installing SLIME at work today, and wanted to know more of SWANK... If you search WikiPedia for 'swank', you'll get something else than you expect!
10:36	tsdh	Luyt: Haha, but looks good, too. ;-)
10:36	Luyt	My coworkers thought I was browsing porn instead of getting stuff working
10:37	mefesto	tsdh: get static method working?
10:37	mefesto	Long/valueOf => https://gist.github.com/995369
10:37	tsdh	mefesto: Nope, do you?
10:38	tsdh	mefesto: Yeah, that works. But not the one with the 2-args signature.
10:38	ilyak	I have a value and I want to do various things depending on that value
10:38	ilyak	Like java switch, without creep
10:38	ilyak	What's the best way to do that in clojure?
10:38	mefesto	tsdh: in your example, you should pass the class as the target and not nil
10:39	fliebel	ilyak: creep? there's just switch in clojure as well. or you can do... moment
10:39	ilyak	Can't find switch in http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
10:40	ilyak	creep is break;
10:40	mefesto	tsdh: (.invoke m Long (into-array Object ["111" 2]))
10:40	tsdh	mefesto: Yes, just checked, same error.
10:40	fliebel	&(case :a :b 1 :c 2 :a 2)
10:40	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.MapEntry
10:41	fliebel	??? works in my repl
10:41	tsdh	&(let [m (.getMethod Long "parseLong" (into-array Class [String Integer/TYPE]))] (.invoke m Long (into-array Object ["111" 2])))
10:41	sexpbot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! package java.lang.reflect, Java Platform API Specification, version 1.6 is bad!
10:42	ilyak	And I also can't find case in http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
10:43	fliebel	$doc case
10:43	tsdh	mefesto: That's what I get (clojure 1.3) http://pastebin.com/02AmhKFW
10:43	fliebel	&(doc case)
10:43	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([e & clauses]); Takes an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-constant result-expr (test-constant1 ... test-constantN) result-expr The test-constants are not evaluated. They must be compile-time literals, and need no... http://gist.github.com/995384
10:43	mefesto	tsdh: https://gist.github.com/995383
10:44	mefesto	tsdh: oh, I'm on clojure 1.2
10:44	fliebel	Python-style switch: ##(({:a #(+ 1 %) :b #(* 2 %) :c identity} :b) 3)
10:44	sexpbot	⟹ 6
10:45	bsteuber	tsdh: try ["111" (Integer. 2)]
10:46	bsteuber	btw. (into-array Object …) == (to-array …)
10:48	tsdh	bsteuber: Oh, that does the trick. Thanks!
10:49	bsteuber	tsdh: yeah, Java-interop got a bit ugly with clojure's new "tread all ints as long" policy
10:50	bsteuber	so you have to explicitly cast everything where java expects an int
10:58	ilyak	case doesn't work on me
10:58	ilyak	it seems to always invoke the first branch
11:00	ilyak	Never mind
11:00	ilyak	I'm an idiot
11:11	tsdh	Is there a way to enable assertions in a repl session?
11:17	dnolen	fliebel: thx for the patch! I'll try to take a closer look at it in the next day or so.
11:17	fliebel	dnolen: cool
11:21	fliebel	dnolen: I discovered I have the same thing for macros as you have for performance. This makes me vurnerable to amalloy's strategy as well :(
11:22	ilyak	Does clojure have continuations passing in the form of lazy list constructed with yield?
11:22	fliebel	ilyak: It has neither first class continuations nor a yield statement.
11:22	dnolen	ilyak: no, but I wrote something more powerful than that, delimc, https://github.com/swannodette/delimc
11:23	dnolen	fliebel: amalloy's strategy?
11:23	fliebel	dnolen: Have an idea, and tell you it can be done faster in Java so that you'd write it for him.
11:23	ilyak	fliebel: sad
11:24	ilyak	dnolen: Any cookbook?
11:24	fliebel	ilyak: Why do you need them?
11:25	fliebel	dnolen: The same could be done by writing a broken macro for said idea and tell me it can;t be done with functions.
11:25	TimMc	fliebel: Similarly, the fastest way to get help in Linux is to loudly proclaim "$FOO cannot be done in Linux!" :-)
11:28	dnolen	ilyak: cookbook?
11:30	dnolen	fliebel: ah yes :) yeah it's nice how you got rid of macros.
11:30	dnolen	fliebel: making fact a function is very useful.
11:31	tsdh	What's the right way to set print-length (or any other global var)?
11:32	fliebel	dnolen: Maybe it should return the new set, not the index... And yea, useless macroes in libs annoy me endlessly.
11:34	dnolen	fliebel: heh, I try to keep my macro usage quite low, but I was too busy thinking about other things to see the advantage of using protocols/types here. That's the beauty of open source, other people see things you don't and fix them.
11:41	fliebel	dnolen: What where the args in defrel originally used for?
11:42	dnolen	fliebel: nothing really, was a half-baked step towards allow indexing any element of the rel tuple.
11:43	fliebel	dnolen: Ah, okay. Because, after I was done writing my version, I found nowhere to put them.
11:44	dnolen	fliebel: in hierarchy you'd want to be able to efficiently calculate the reverse direction. you want to index a and b.
11:47	tsdh	Hm, I have test/a.clj and test/b.clj, where b has (:use [test.a]) in its ns definition. But I cannot refer to the functions of test.a from b. Why?
11:48	manutter	tsdh: heh, been there
11:48	manutter	wait, no I read that wrong
11:48	tsdh	manutter: Argh, in the REPL it works. But not with cake test or lein test.
11:49	manutter	had my "to" and "from" reversed . Yes, you should be able to (:use [test.a]) in test.b and have access to a's functions
11:50	manutter	kill your repl and restart? Maybe there's some other problem masquerading as a missing function
11:51	ilyak	dnolen: Examples of doing useful things
11:52	Leonidas	I am using pcalls but the program acts strange: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/396267/
11:52	Leonidas	it displays "running" 3x and 42 which is fine
11:52	Leonidas	but then it just hangs
11:53	dnolen	ilyak: I have no such cookbook, but there is a lot of Scheme literature, FP literature, and much of the descriptions about yield apply.
11:54	tsdh	manutter: I'll try that.
11:55	tsdh	manutter: Ok, then I get that error there, too.
12:02	dnolen	this would be fun to port to core.logic, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3702855/typing-the-y-combinator/4962741#4962741
12:19	ilyak	Is it possible to call an anonymous function from itself not from the tail position and without resorting to Y combinator?
12:19	dnolen	hmm 1.3.0 alphas no longer support unsynchronized primitive fields - also transient field support would be nice.
12:19	ilyak	(mistyped "from the fail position")
12:24	hugod	&((fn f [x] (println x) (if x (f false))) true)
12:24	sexpbot	⟹ true false nil
12:34	jarpiain	woot, my compiler patch was committed :)
12:37	chouser	jarpiain: Congrats! are you going to present your compiler at ClojureConj
12:37	chouser	?
12:38	jarpiain	chouser: (that was the fix for CLJ-671)
12:41	jarpiain	chouser: btw, did you get the reply to the mail you sent some 2 weeks ago?
12:43	jsanda	hi all, is there a way to make one protocol extend another?
12:45	dnolen	jsanda: not really.
12:45	jsanda	ok, thanks. wasn't sure
13:00	robonobo	is there any way using pprint in the main method won't work after you generate an uberjar with lein?
13:00	ataggart	stuarthalloway: anything need working on?
13:02	robonobo	%
13:05	stuarthalloway	ataggart: caught in meeting, may have something shortly, and/or check with redinger
13:09	edw	I feel the need to share: I just built a program to create a Markov model of incoming keywords and then used it to create a list of all (finite) vaguely-human seeming possible keywords. Woot!
13:23	raek	tufflax: the easiest way is probably to write a helper class that can access them and let it have methods that delegate to the protected members
13:43	amalloy	fliebel, ilyak: in 1.2.x, case has a bug that makes (eval (macroexpand `(case ...))) not work
13:47	amalloy	edw: shamboogle. wzinlcbq
13:49	manutter	~botsnack
13:49	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
13:49	manutter	well, he's taking something anyway...
14:03	edw	amalloy: I hear you.
14:03	tufflax	raek: Yes perhaps. In that case, can I have the java files in a lein project and have lein compile and load them?
14:11	raek	tufflax: yes. if you add :java-source-path "src/" to your project.clj, Leiningen will compile .java files there when you run lein compile
14:11	redinger	ataggart: Any chance you could write a small test case for CLJ-801 that actually demonstrates the problem?
14:11	raek	the generated .class files will also be on the classpath
14:12	tufflax	nice
14:12	technomancy	redinger: heyyyy, could I get the sonian blurb on the clojure wiki fixed?
14:12	redinger	technomancy: yeah
14:12	raek	(loading is done automatically by the JVM when the class is fist used)
14:12	raek	*first
14:12	redinger	technomancy: What's the fix?
14:12	tufflax	oh ok
14:12	ataggart	redinger: I tested it manually by altering MethodImplCahe to accept Objects instead of only Classes, but I didn't want to check in that change. It's fairly difficult to find classes that result in a hash collision.
14:13	ataggart	redinger: if Rich et al. are okay with MethodImplCache being defined as accepting Objects, then I can write a permanent test case.
14:13	technomancy	redinger: could you replace the second sentence with "Sonian deploys large clusters running Clojure to perform parsing, archival, and indexing of many terabytes of email and other documents."?
14:13	redinger	ataggart: Do you have your manual test hanging around? Even getting that in the ticket would be helpful
14:15	redinger	technomancy: done
14:17	ataggart	redinger: I don't. I just used the values from the case tests and called expand-method-impl-cache. I could write the tests, but they wouldn't break if run. I'm open to suggestions.
14:17	technomancy	hmm; that chance appears to have taken confluence down.
14:17	technomancy	*change
14:17	technomancy	eep
14:18	technomancy	ah ok, it's back
14:18	technomancy	thanks!
14:38	zakwilson	http://correlate.googlelabs.com/search?e=clojure&t=weekly <-- Clojure is evidently correlated with porn (SFW unless you have an overzealous keyword-based web filter)
14:39	manutter	zakwilson: heh, now try that with Compojure
14:40	zakwilson	manutter: the assortment of things is near random
14:40	manutter	yeah, but it's STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT!!
14:41	manutter	I mean, hey, it's from Google, right?
14:41	manutter	:)
14:42	zakwilson	"When machine learning attacks", featuring cancerous neural networks and support hostile-vector machines
14:42	TimMc	zakwilson: And "Python" with "cancerous tumor". :-D
14:43	ataggart	redinger: I'm writing a separate test patch that alters MethodImplCache. It probably shouldn't be committed, though.
14:43	`fogus	ataggart: I will not be. :-)
14:43	`fogus	It that is
14:44	`fogus	ataggart: Anything that would shed some light on the problem being addressed would be a huge help
14:45	ataggart	`fogus: ah, I wasn't aware there wasn't clarity on the nature of the bug itself.
14:46	__name__	is writing an alpha-beta pruning AI in clojure sane or will i run into performance issues?
14:48	`fogus	ataggart: The problem makes sense, but when I screen a ticket I like to create regressions. In this case, (as you said) it's tough to find a case to illustrate the problem, especially as some who has not experienced the problem and did not write the patch.
14:48	redinger	ataggart: Yeah, I was just looking for an example rather than necessarily a test we need to commit
14:49	redinger	I was hoping we could pull something from Tassilo's code, but it wasn't immediate obvious how to grab something small
14:49	ataggart	can someone remind me of the trick to call a private defn
14:50	ataggart	from outside that ns
14:50	`fogus	(#'foo)
14:50	ataggart	thx
14:51	edw	Internal DEFNs: Considered harmful or OK?
14:51	dnolen	edw: undiomatic, defs are always top level.
14:52	dnolen	edw: so no point really.
14:52	manutter	there's always letfn if you need it
14:52	edw	Just trying to group my procs so people understand what's going on.
14:55	manutter	by "internal defn" I'm assuming you mean defining a function inside a function definition?
14:56	edw	Yes. (My native language is Scheme.)
14:56	amalloy	yeah, considered harmful
14:56	raek	edw: in the aspaect of scoping, def in clojure does not work like define in scheme at all
14:57	amalloy	in particular, (defn foo [x] (defn foo* [x y z]...)...) would put both of them in the global scope anyway
14:57	edw	raek: Right, I just picked that up from dnolen.
14:58	edw	DEF is dynamically scoped... That didn't quite sink in when someone wrote that the other day.
14:59	edw	LETFN successfully deployed: thanks manutter.
15:00	manutter	I never used to use letfn, then I started doing the 4clojure exercises :)
15:00	lucian	edw: def being dynamically scoped seems very odd to me
15:00	manutter	very handy there
15:00	lucian	it seems like the entirely wrong and surprising thing to do
15:01	dnolen	lucian: edw: what is meant by dynamically scoped in this context ? certainly not what dynamic scope generally means in Clojure.
15:02	edw	lucian: Yeah, "Never put a DEFx form anywhere but the top level of a source file" seems like correct advice to a third or fourth approximation.
15:02	lucian	dnolen: uh, globally scoped it seems, not dynamically
15:02	edw	lucian: I used that word--repeating what I read the other day.
15:03	lucian	i don't get why anything in clojure would be dynamically scoped
15:03	edw	Saying "dynamic scoping" just makes it seem more horrible.
15:04	gfrlog	lucian: did you just make a pun out of asterisks?
15:04	lucian	also, i don't get why anything would be global by default. i'd expect the reverse for everything
15:04	lucian	gfrlog: uh, not really :)
15:04	gfrlog	lucian: all the more clever then
15:04	dnolen	edw: lucian: even 'global scope' is inaccurate since you have namespaces.
15:04	TimMc	gfrlog: :-D
15:05	raek	also, in 1.3 a re-def will cause recompilation of all functions
15:05	lucian	dnolen: sure. still not lexical & local
15:05	raek	(not at once, but when they are called)
15:05	dnolen	raek: not true, I mistakenly thought that as well. caches get reloaded.
15:05	raek	aha.
15:05	edw	raek: I'm trying to wrap my head around the implications of that.
15:07	raek	my understanding was that if foo v1.0 call bar v1.0, foo v1.0 will have a hardcoded reference to v1.0
15:07	raek	and when bar changes to v2.0, foo v1.0 needs to be recompiled
15:07	dnolen	raek: yeah that's not true.
15:07	raek	but this is probably not quite what happens
15:08	dnolen	raek: there's a lot of implementation details - but the only real difference for 1.3.0 users is that vars are not dynamically rebindable by default.
15:09	raek	I guess I was conflating this with the old :static thing
15:10	edw	dnolen: That doesn't apply to the REPL though, right?
15:11	dnolen	edw: ? why should it not apply? The REPL is really all of Clojure.
15:12	gtrak``	Raynes, know what's up with tryclojure? i get 'Permgen Space'
15:13	Raynes	gtrak``: That's something that happens occassionally when people breakify it. I'll restart it. Thanks for letting me know.
15:13	TimMc	dnolen: Because rebinding in the REPL is... handy.
15:13	edw	dnolen: Umm, I must be misinterpreting what "rebinding vars" means, as the REPL is all about re-defining the same var over and over.
15:13	dnolen	TimMc: do we understand what 'rebinding' means in this context ?
15:13	TimMc	probably nto
15:14	dnolen	you can (def x 1) (def x 2) all you want, just as you always could.
15:14	dnolen	I'm talking about (binding [foo 1] ...)
15:14	TimMc	arg, right
15:15	TimMc	dnolen: So (def x 1) (def x 2) would still work in programs, and still be frowned upon.
15:16	dnolen	TimMc: frowned upon in completed programs, not during development.
15:16	TimMc	rigth
15:18	Raynes	gtrak``: Up again.
15:46	ataggart	`fogus redinger: test patch on CLJ-801
15:50	`fogus	ataggart: Thank you sir
16:16	`fogus	dnolen: When should I see the validation error in your :unsynchronized-mutable example?
16:19	dnolen	`fogus: checking.
16:27	dnolen	`fogus: blarg, sorry turns out this in fact a issue w/ numerics, but the behavior is as expected.
16:29	`fogus	dnolen: So is this not a bug?
16:30	dnolen	`fogus: 1.3.0 defaults to long, but if you want int you have to remember to coerce.
16:30	`fogus	dnolen: The verify error that you mentioned was not a JVM bytecode verification error ?
16:31	dnolen	`fogus: I had something like (set! x 1) in my code, which was fine. But whenever I set the type of the field, the compiler would complain, so I thought the problem was a mutable field + type hint in 1.3.0. It was a JVM byte code error. Expecting I() on stack.
16:32	`fogus	dnolen: That error could probably stand to be more graceful
16:39	`fogus	dnolen: Thanks for posting about it.
16:40	dnolen	`fogus: any thoughts about the transient bit?
16:41	`fogus	dnolen: Not at the moment, but I will meditate on it this long weekend. :-)
16:44	hugod	dnolen: is there a pattern matching example for core.logic?
16:45	dnolen	hugod: yes it one of the first examples on the github landing page show that in action.
16:46	dnolen	hugod: apologies for the state of the documentation. I've created a wiki on the project page, I'll try to flesh it out with some examples.
16:48	hugod	dnolen: thanks for what there is; I know what a headache documentation can be when things are still moving fast
17:25	crowbar	I'm running swank-clojure connected to an emacs session. When I run a evaluate some code that opens a JFrame which has an EXIT_ON_CLOSE associated it ends up killing me slime repl. Is there a way to keep the swank/slime repl alive?
17:37	amalloy	crowbar: don't use System.exit if you don't want the system to exit :P
17:38	amalloy	DISPOSE_ON_CLOSE is more flexible for an app that might have other threads running that you care about (for example, your swank server)
17:38	crowbar	You win this round.
18:38	Crowb4r	hey the real crowbar
18:38	Crowb4r	lol
18:39	Crowb4r	well other crowbar
18:51	devn	hello
18:52	devn	hello folks
18:52	devn	whoops -- making the rounds this afternoon and doubled up on #clojure :)
19:44	Null-A	how do I slurp lazily?
19:44	Null-A	(line-seq (slurp ..)) ?
19:49	Null-A	nvm
20:51	crowbar	(clojure.core/max (list 1 2 3 4)) I'm getting (1 2 3 4) as a result. I was expecting 4. What should I be doing?
20:52	tomoj	amalloy: how would you write (map (juxt (comp f first) (comp g second)) c)
20:52	crowbar	I see. passing it a list is incorrect. I should break it into atoms.
20:53	offby1	crowbar: if this were #scheme, I'd suggest you use "apply". But I don't know what clojure's equivalent is
20:53	technomancy	offby1: no, that's right for clojure too
20:53	crowbar	offby1: reduce worked, but is apply better?
20:54	offby1	crowbar: dunno if it's better; it's just the first thing that popped into my head :)
20:54	offby1	actually, apply _might_ have the disadvantage of not working if the list is very long
20:54	offby1	in which case "reduce" would win.
20:54	offby1	not sure if clojure has a limit to the number of args a function can take.
20:55	offby1	s/not sure/no effing clue/
20:55	sexpbot	<offby1> no effing clue if clojure has a limit to the number of args a function can take.
20:55	offby1	that was ... moderately useless :)
20:55	tomoj	reduce and apply seem to have equal performance to me
20:55	crowbar	great help to me though. thanks.
20:56	offby1	tomoj: it's not a question of performance; it's a question of utter failure. Some lisps -- I forget which -- indeed have a limit to the number of arguments you can pass to a function
20:56	tomoj	not clojure :)
20:56	offby1	there ya go, then.
20:56	crowbar	so apply will break a list into atoms and pass to a function vs reduce which will keep falling first on a list until down to one item as a result?
20:56	tomoj	&(take 10 (apply (fn [& args] args) (range)))
20:56	sexpbot	⟹ (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
20:57	tomoj	apply is defined up to [f a b c d & args]
20:57	tomoj	hmm
20:58	tomoj	that isn't relevant is it
21:00	offby1	I assume that (range) returns an infinite sequence
21:00	tomoj	yeah
21:01	tomoj	in 1.2.0 it looks like apply helpers are defined up to 20 arguments
21:02	tomoj	also (RT/boundedLength seq limit) to return length of a seq up to a limit
21:02	technomancy	reduce involves calling max many times; apply is a single call
21:03	tomoj	huh, I'm confused
21:04	tomoj	applyToHelper in the default case converts the remaining arguments to an array
21:04	tomoj	so that must not be called for the above example
21:05	crowbar	hey technomancy, thanks for your help on news.yc today. happily learning clojure now.
21:05	tomoj	ah, because it's the function doing it, and a function with [& args] can know not to bother?
21:06	tomoj	oh, _that's_ what RestFn is for
21:07	tomoj	I've seen that in stack traces all the time but never understood what it meant
21:07	technomancy	crowbar: cool
21:13	wastrel	i saw an email about gui stuff
21:14	technomancy	crowbar: the "Let's just use Emacs" thread?
21:14	crowbar	<- parfe here.
21:15	Null-A	is there an easy way to get the index while iterating of a vec? like (for [[k v] (zipmap (range (count my-vec) my-vec ))] ... )
21:15	crowbar	yeah, I was complaining about how too much is broke, but luckily your stuff all works for me now.
21:15	crowbar	clojure-jack-in works wonders.
21:15	technomancy	sweet
21:15	technomancy	yeah... too many moving parts before that
21:16	Null-A	ah map-indexed
21:16	technomancy	I contacted tromey to get some deprecation warnings on the old elpa stuff; hopefully that will clear things up.
21:16	crowbar	do you have control of marmalade-repo.org? They're missing a snippet to load package.el
21:17	crowbar	nevermind. I'll email the guy in the about section.
21:17	technomancy	I've been opening issues at http://code.google.com/p/marmalade/
21:18	technomancy	he's pretty responsive
21:18	crowbar	even better. thanks.
21:23	tomoj	(defmacro fn-> [& more] `(fn [x#] (-> x# ~@more)))
21:46	cnd_	~+ 1 2)
21:46	clojurebot	,(let [testar (fn [x y] (cond (= (reduce + (filter odd? (range 0 x))) y) (str y " is an square perfect")), :else("nao eh") )] (testar 10 25))
21:46	cnd_	~(+ 1 2)
21:46	clojurebot	,(let [testar (fn [x y] (cond (= (reduce + (filter odd? (range 0 x))) y) (str y " is an square perfect")) )] (testar 11 25))
21:46	cnd_	~(or (> 1 java.lang.Double/NaN ) (= 1 java.lang.Double/NaN ))
21:46	clojurebot	<monads> is "yea, though I should walk in the valley of imperative code, I shall fear no evil, for your monad comforts me" - seen in #haskell
21:47	cnd_	,~(or (> 1 java.lang.Double/NaN ) (= 1 java.lang.Double/NaN ))
21:47	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var clojure.core/unquote is unbound.
21:47	cnd_	,(or (> 1 java.lang.Double/NaN ) (= 1 java.lang.Double/NaN ))
21:47	clojurebot	false
21:47	cnd_	,(>= 1 java.lang.Double/NaN )
21:47	clojurebot	true
21:49	cnd_	hello?
21:49	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline cnd_
21:51	tomoj	suppose you use xml/parse to parse an entire document into a tag structmap. then you create an xml-zip and start grabbing references to locs
21:51	tomoj	the zippers along the way will share lots of structure with your original tag structmap, right?
21:54	devn	tomoj: my gut tells me yes since structmaps are simply maps
21:55	tomoj	interesting
21:55	devn	my gut or my answer?
21:55	devn	or that it can talk?
21:55	tomoj	the answer
21:55	tomoj	that too is interesting
21:55	devn	:)
21:56	tomoj	unfortunately since clojure.zip implements zippers as 2-vectors, they don't work with cascalog
21:56	devn	tomoj: although maybe not
21:56	devn	since "most uses of structmaps would not be better served by records"
21:57	tomoj	shoot, I need record zippers
21:57	devn	i've been casually following the changes in 1.3 to defrecord -- but in general i've heard generalizations like: "records are fast"
21:57	devn	which would lead my gut to tap me on the shoulder and suggested shared structure might be one benefit of records over structmaps
21:58	tomoj	I don't really need fast here, just need to not use tooo much memory
21:58	devn	reading the documentation on clojure.org i see that "The only restriction is that you cannot dissociate a struct map from one of its base keys. A struct map will retain its base keys in order."
21:58	devn	on the other hand: "StructMaps are in all ways maps, supporting the same set of functions, are interoperable with all other maps, and are persistently extensible (i.e. struct maps are not limited to their base keys)."
21:59	devn	tomoj: I believe you are just fine with structmaps in this case -- but profile if you're writing this code to support a life support mechanism of some kind before trusting some fool on irc. ;)
22:00	tomoj	I don't plan to change the xml structmaps
22:01	devn	tomoj: the end goal is always good to know when discussing this sort of thing
22:01	devn	do you have a problem statement that is beyond implementation details?
22:02	tomoj	crawl and process markup
22:02	tomoj	but I'd really like to do it with cascalog and zippers
22:02	devn	mmm
22:03	devn	that would be cool
22:03	clojurebot	Huh?
22:03	devn	clojurebot: that
22:03	clojurebot	Pardon?
22:03	devn	clojurebot: what tomoj said... it would be cool.
22:03	clojurebot	I don't understand.
22:03	devn	bots...
22:03	tomoj	clojurebot: botsnack
22:03	clojurebot	Thanks, but I prefer chocolate
22:04	devn	see -- not only is he ignorant, he's picky!
22:08	tomoj	I can just macro my way out of boilerplate for dealing with 2-vectors and not have to rewrite clojure.zip :)
22:11	gfrlog	I would like to see a saturday morning cartoon where every week the characters have to macro their way out of some crazy situation.
23:03	zakwilson	Are there open source web apps of significant size written in Clojure that I can read? I'm trying to get a feel for how best to structure things.
23:09	gfrlog	zakwilson: I take no responsibility for the following suggestion:
23:09	gfrlog	https://github.com/dbyrne/4clojure
23:10	zakwilson	gfrlog: thanks
23:10	bpr	is there a way to get lein to load your project into a running repl?
23:11	bpr	or do you have to load all the files and dependencies yourself?
23:11	bpr	I was thinking of common lisp's asdf as a model for this
23:15	crowbar	is there an issue with using hyphens in namespaces?
23:21	crowbar	looks like by renaming my namespace to explude a hyphen my problem is resolved. perhaps because the file system was using an underscore?