#clojure – 2011-03-10

2011-03-10

01:04	technomancy	a version from mid-august that was outdated only three weeks later
01:05	amalloy	technomancy: a perverse desire to show they're not afraid of 13
01:08	amalloy	or: a belief that it will magically turn into clojure 1.3.0
01:10	technomancy	with swank-clojure the versions actually match the clojure versions pretty closely
01:18	amalloy	technomancy: see? so totally plausible that someone might intend lein to do that
01:19	technomancy	yeah I'd buy that except for the fact that 1.4.0, which is also obsolete, got more downloads than that.
01:36	Derander	technomancy: you've probably got some old tutorials floating around out there
01:45	ossareh	Am I right in thinking that when you aot compile a namespace that all dependent namespaces get compiled to?
02:17	chouser	ossareh: yes
02:27	ossareh	chouser: is there any way to limit that behaviour? I'm compiling a web app and at some point there is a var which, when accessed at run time, pulls data from the database.
02:27	ossareh	So at production time I have my test configs :/
02:33	iwillig	does anyone know why, if i have a function with keyword arguments, i can't call that function with a hash map
02:33	iwillig	with the correct keys
02:34	zakwilson	How long should I expect clojure.xml/parse to take on a 900M file on a modern laptop?
02:35	iwillig	never mind
02:35	iwillig	figure it out
02:35	iwillig	sorry to bug people
03:10	sorenmacbeth	hello all
03:11	sorenmacbeth	could someone help me with what I'm sure is a simple problem, unless you are new to clojure that is
03:11	sorenmacbeth	I'm trying to create word level n-grams of up to a maximum length of n from a seq of words
03:13	sorenmacbeth	so for a seq like ("foo" "bar" "baz") and n = 2 I'd want ("foo") ("bar") ("baz") ("foo bar") ("foo baz") ("bar baz")
03:31	bytecoder	sorenmacbeth: have a look at clojure combinatorics. it might help. http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/combinatorics-api.html
03:33	sorenmacbeth	bytecoder: thanks, I did have a peek in there. that gets me most of the way there, I think I need to do a map or recursion to get all the combinations up to n, but not sure exactly
03:35	tsdh	If I have (def x false) (binding [x true] (pmap #(...) [...])), do the threads spawned by pmap see the binding value true, or the root binding false of x?
03:36	raek	tsdh: no. but you can use bound-fn and bound-fn* to make it so.
03:37	raek	(no, they don't se the dynamically bound value)
03:37	bytecoder	should be simple with mapcat
03:37	tsdh	Ah, I've just tested it using #(println x) in the pmap. BTW, why is output in other threads not sent to the usual slime output?
03:37	bytecoder	&(mapcat (partial selections #{"foo" "bar" "baz"}) (range 1 3))
03:37	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: selections in this context
03:38	hiredman	tsdh: out is dynamically bound
03:38	bytecoder	sorenmacbeth: (mapcat (partial selections #{"foo" "bar" "baz"}) (range 1 3))
03:38	raek	tsdh: the same reason, actually. the output is sent to out which is rebound for the repl thread
03:38	tsdh	hiredman: Ah, so the same as with x. :-)
03:39	tsdh	raek: Is your suggestion to bound-fn a function that calls pmap?
03:39	raek	you can do a (alter-var-root #'out (constantly out)) in the slime repl
03:40	sorenmacbeth	bytecoder: awesome, that is super close, the only issue that is does ("foo foo") ("bar bar") ("baz baz")
03:40	tsdh	raek: Great, that does the trick.
03:40	raek	tsdh: boudn-fn works as a replacement for fn, so you can use it like (binding [x true] (pmap (bound-fn [y] ...) [...])
03:41	tsdh	Ah, I see.
03:41	bytecoder	sorenmacbeth: oops. replace selections with combinations
03:41	bytecoder	sorenmacbeth: (mapcat (partial combinations #{"foo" "bar" "baz"}) (range 1 3))
03:42	sorenmacbeth	bytecoder: perfect!
03:42	sorenmacbeth	bytecoder: thanks much. I have MUCH clojure foo to learn ;)
03:42	tsdh	But is not sharing the bindings of the spawning thread a bit counterintuitive? Or is it that costly, that it's the way it is for efficiency reasons?
03:43	hiredman	in master they are shared
03:43	hiredman	but vars aren't dynamic by default any more
03:44	tsdh	hiredman: And the latter was a performance reason, right?
03:46	hiredman	tsdh: yes it means less overhead spent checking for dynamicly bound vars
03:46	bytecoder	sorenmacbeth: np. look around. there is most likely a function or library that already does what you want :)
03:46	tsdh	Phew, I hope there will be some good update guide when 1.3 comes arround...
03:53	tsdh	Is it possible to have a fn with args [x & rest {:keys a b c}]?
03:55	raek	,(let [[x & {:keys [a b]}] [0 :a 1 :b 2]] [x a b])
03:55	clojurebot	[0 1 2]
04:01	Cozey	Good day. I updated to latest swank-clojure from technomancy's github, and now the package/function description doesn't work (returns nil). Maybe I'm missing a correct slime release? I have one from elpa (but with technomancy repo added)
04:02	Cozey	It's slime 20100404
04:02	Cozey	or even 20100404.1
04:08	bytecoder	,(clojure-version)
04:08	clojurebot	"1.2.0"
04:11	bartj	how can I remove duplicates from a sequence of hash-maps ?
04:12	bartj	eg: , ({:a 3} {:a 5} {:a 10} {:b 3}) and retain only the max value
04:12	bartj	ie. {:a 10 :b 3}
04:14	clgv	bartj: for exact duplicates distinct does the job. your case seems to require own work^^
04:16	clgv	you could sort by value increasingle and then assoc as you traverse the sorted sequence. it would do the trick but wouldnt be the fastest implementation
04:17	krumholt	bartj, does the sequence only contain maps in the form {:key value} not {:key1 value1 :key2 value2} ?
04:17	bartj	I thought of a merge-with -> concat -> pick the max ?
04:17	bartj	krumholt, yes
04:21	clgv	that one works too: (merge-with max {:a 3} {:a 5} {:a 10} {:b 3})
04:21	clgv	&(merge-with max {:a 3} {:a 5} {:a 10} {:b 3})
04:21	sexpbot	⟹ {:b 3, :a 10}
04:22	clgv	so for your seq it should be: ##(apply merge max '({:a 3} {:a 5} {:a 10} {:b 3}))
04:22	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$max cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection
04:22	clgv	ups
04:24	krumholt	nice solution clgv all you need now is reduce
04:25	krumholt	,(reduce #(merge-with max %1 %2) '({:a 3} {:a 5} {:a 10} {:b 3}))
04:25	clojurebot	{:b 3, :a 10}
04:25	clgv	krumholt: I thought one can do it with apply but it cant handle the function param it seems
04:26	bartj	that is better than a bloated reduce I have !
04:26	raek	,(apply merge-with max '({:a 3} {:a 5} {:a 10} {:b 3}))
04:26	clojurebot	{:b 3, :a 10}
04:26	clgv	oh damn. forgot the "with"
04:26	krumholt	thats even better :)
04:27	bartj	(max-key {:a 5 :b 3})
04:27	bartj	, (max-key {:a 5 :b 3})
04:27	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$max-key
04:27	bartj	, (apply max-key {:a 5 :b 3})
04:27	clojurebot	[:b 3]
04:27	bartj	shouldn't it be :a ?
04:28	clgv	it's called max-key and not max-val ;)
04:28	clgv	:a < :b
04:28	bartj	yeah, lexographically
04:30	bartj	are there any utility map functions
04:30	bartj	to get the keys with the maximum values ?
04:32	Cozey	what happened to clojure.core/with-out-str in 1.3 ?
04:32	Cozey	and how to check such things in git?
04:37	clgv	bartj: the doc for max-key kinda didnt help me, but I found an example. the solution for you is: ##(apply max-key val {:a 5 :b 3})
04:37	sexpbot	⟹ [:a 5]
04:39	bartj	my solution was like this (remove nil? (map #(if (= max-val (m %)) % nil) (keys m)))
04:39	bartj	where m is a map and max-val is the maximum-value
04:39	bartj	max-val is computed as: (apply max (vals m))
04:40	clgv	looks a lot longer ;)
04:40	bartj	the trouble with clgv is that it doesn't return multiple-keys if both of them have multiple values
04:41	bartj	sorry I meant with your solution
04:41	clgv	oh right
04:41	clgv	well I would use a loop-recur approach over the seq of key-val-pairs then
04:43	raek	Cozey: what has changed about it?
04:43	Cozey	it disappeared
04:44	raek	strange
04:44	raek	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L4102
04:44	Cozey	hmm wait
04:44	Cozey	but swank thrown a null exception on this.. i need to take a better look, sorry for this one
04:49	khaliG	Long shot but wondering if anyone has had trouble with Incanter "Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: incanter.Matrix" when trying to run their project from a jarfile. i can use lein run fine, just not from a jar.
04:51	Cozey	hmm which swank-clojure is more up to date to work with 1.3 ? technomancys or jochu's ? (https://github.com/jochu/swank-clojure/network)
04:52	raek	technomancy's
04:53	raek	the graph is biased towards the fork you are currently viewing (https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure/network)
04:53	Cozey	right, technomancys entry there is just for some old branch
04:55	raek	hrm, looks technomancy pushes the changes to both branches
04:55	raek	*forks
04:55	raek	the last commit of technomancy/swank-clojure is "Resolve print-doc at runtime to fix 1.3 compatibility."
04:56	raek	the same for jochu/swank-clojure
04:58	Cozey	thanks :-)
04:58	Cozey	do You know by the way how to find the commit where a chunk was deleted?
04:59	Cozey	git blame lets you find the added lines.. how about the removed?
05:00	raek	I was going to sugest blame, but now I see your point... :-)
05:03	Cozey	hm it is possible http://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/2010/07/querying-deleted-content-in-git.html
05:04	Cozey	with some git trickery
05:08	tsdh	Why does (def lll "doc" 1) say that there are too many args to def? The docs say, that it accepts an optional docstring, right?
05:21	tsdh	Is there a convention about how much lines should be indented? Usually (CL, EL), one starts following lines at column zero, but it seems clojure guys usually indent following lines with 2 spaces...
05:22	TobiasRaeder	morning
05:28	raek	the way clojure-mode for emacs seems to do it is to by default align the function arguments with the first one, like this:
05:28	raek	(foo 1
05:28	raek	2
05:28	raek	3)
05:28	raek	but a lot of special forms and macros use the "defun" style and indents two spaces
05:29	raek	(let [x 1]
05:29	raek	(a)
05:29	raek	(b)
05:29	raek	(c))
05:31	raek	this seems to be escpecially common for special forms or macros what wrap a code body, like do, future, for and dosync
05:33	Cozey	anybody knows why they are checking here if print-doc is :private? https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure/blob/master/src/swank/commands/basic.clj#L210
05:38	tsdh	raek: I mean the docstring if it more than one line long.
05:40	raek	oh. :)
05:41	raek	I have seen both 2 and 3 spaces for docstrings
05:41	tsdh	But never 0 spaces, like in CL?
05:53	tsdh	ninjudd: Hi. I use your ordered-set lib, and it's great!
05:55	tsdh	ninjudd: But one uncertainty: can you guarantee, that (clojure.set/difference ord-set1 ord-set2) also preserves the ordering (of either the former or the latter)?
06:03	angerman	haha… finally. Rendering Geometry to PDF via LaTeX and TikZ :D
06:04	angerman	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/281539/tikz-template.pdf
06:14	__name__	angerman: pretty
06:15	angerman	I need quite a bit of geometry drawings for my thesis.
06:17	angerman	usually I use JReality+Clojure to see if the algorithms work as expected. But at some point, raster images are just not suitable. Currently it takes the clojure geometry description, and renders it into \coordinate (node-N) at (X,Y); and \draw[black!FRACTION] (node-A) -- (node-B); commands to be fed into TikZ :D
06:21	clgv	angerman: dont you want to make a latex layer in clojure? that would be a great advance ;)
06:21	angerman	clgv: rewriting latex in clojure?
06:21	Cozey	what's the best strategy to make a future doing a certain task on certain time interval?
06:22	clgv	angerman: so to say. or better replace Latex via ClojureTex ;)
06:22	angerman	clgv: if I hadn't had a disk crash on a secondary disk, I would still have a markdown -> TeX compiler in Clojure. :/
06:23	clgv	angerman: get a DVCS ;)
06:23	angerman	so I've been using clojure for quite some time to augment LaTeX… I'm not so sure if a pure ClojureTeX would make sense.
06:24	clgv	I think it's past the time that the community should have thrown away latex for a better document description DSL
06:24	angerman	clgv: I have. That project though was never considered remotely useful except for creating lots of flash-cards quickly to study a course on set theory.
06:24	clgv	ah kk^^
06:25	angerman	clgv: I'm not so sure. I'm more for augmenting LaTeX, there's just so much usefull stuff in LaTeX. But it's interface could use quite a bit of polish.
06:25	angerman	e.g. less \command
06:26	clgv	the "language" latex is one of its biggest problems. the useful things would have to be rewritten in a new DSL of course
06:27	clgv	and the "module organization" as well^^
06:28	angerman	sure, the macro expansion feels very ancient. And iirc. Knuth actually remarked to be puzzled that no one had taken a serious shot at advancing tex.
06:28	clgv	oh ok didnt heard of that^^
06:28	angerman	But for now, TeX is a somewhat standard. Thus if you write an augmentation system that compiles to TeX that's going to have the best acceptance for now i think.
06:28	clgv	you have to make the difference between LaTex and Tex
06:29	clgv	I only would replace LaTex. Tex might stay as kind of an "Assembler level" ;)
06:30	angerman	clgv: sure that might work out, though sidelining latex is not a perfect solution :/
06:30	clgv	probably. since it would take long until you replaced most feature packages
06:32	angerman	to get accepted, you'd need it to be easier to use without panelizing the current workflow. And most people at the math department are happy with LaTeX…
06:33	clgv	I would say most people get their work done with latex, but "being happy with it" is an entirely different dimension ;)
06:33	angerman	clgv: fair enough. But is there any competition?
06:34	clgv	I dont think so. I first thought LuaTex could be when I heard it first. But it seems they have other goals
06:35	angerman	clgv: I think luatex still needs a lot of time.
06:36	clgv	you understood their primary goals? maybe you can explain them to me ;)
06:37	angerman	clgv: I thought it was along the lines of "I love LUA, why on earth didn't Knuth write TeX in Lua? Hell it's such an awesome language, let's rewrite TeX"
06:37	clgv	ah ok. I just read the wikipedia entry again
06:37	clgv	on their own page it sounded a bit concusing some time ago
06:37	clgv	*confusing
06:38	angerman	thing though is that, lua is a more modern langauge, and thus they are more likely to attract "new" developers, for whom TeX is just too weird.
06:39	angerman	I don't know what the size of lua devs is, from my experience they are hanging in WoW or so.
06:40	clgv	hmm well. maybe one could start a LaTex-Wrapper in Clojure. Libraries that encapsulate main building blocks.
06:40	clgv	would be less work than replacing LaTex ^^
06:41	angerman	clgv: I guess what you would need is a half-assed latex-build-system, and a compiler that can compile augmented ClaTeX to LaTeX.
06:42	clgv	I did some programming in TikZ for an animation. that was kinda nasty ;)
06:42	angerman	TikZ is actually pretty awesome, though you need to get used to it's custom DSL.
06:43	angerman	but afaik it's the best tool for graphics and animations there is for latex.
06:43	clgv	yeah it's results are awesome. but when you actually want to programm an algorithm illustration it gets really nasty - I missed a "map"-function for example ;)
06:43	angerman	I've even created most of the artwork for an iPhone app with TikZ :D
06:44	angerman	clgv: right. apart from foreach there's little.
06:46	clgv	indeed. and if you look at the actual implementation of TikZ you'll get nightmares^^
06:47	clgv	that's the pretty thing about clojure - you can learn a lot by looking at the core implementation
06:47	angerman	dunno, I just got respect for Till's mastery of TeX
06:47	clgv	I agree with that. It wasn't directed at Till but at Tex ;)
06:48	angerman	and if you remember that same Till is the author of LaTeX Beamer… you got to admire his contribution to LaTeX
06:48	angerman	clgv: yep. TeX… well… it's from another era
06:48	clgv	I know. Where did he get all the time for it? ;)
06:48	angerman	seems to be faculty member at the uni. of Lübeck, iirc.
06:49	clgv	yeah, but I suppose he has to do real research as well ;)
06:50	angerman	you never know :D
06:50	clgv	you thin they have him as "Professor for LaTex"? :P
06:52	Fossi	hmm. got some buddies who study cs there
06:52	Fossi	could ask :D
06:54	clgv	ah he is in theoretic computer science^^
06:55	clgv	professor with approx 36. thats fast
07:05	clgv	oh I did use the wrong year. professor with 30
07:05	angerman	lol.
07:06	angerman	clgv: so, well, he wrote beamer, tikz, a few paper, a doctorial thesis and his habilitation thesis.
07:07	angerman	not bad.
07:07	clgv	yeah. didnt have much sparetime I guess.
09:15	choffstein	Anyone here played with clojure on GAE? I've been following a tutorial (http://compojureongae.posterous.com/), but when I try to test locally, the dev server won't stay up -- it just drops silently (whether it is my code or the demo code from the tutorial). My google-fu is failing me on a solution to the problem...
09:23	TimMc	choffstein: I know of someone here who has, but they're not logged in.
09:23	choffstein	Hm, okay. Maybe I'll just idle then :) Thanks
09:24	tsdh	I use leiningen and have a big testis-test file. "lein test" executes all tests, but what's the right syntax to let it execute one specifig deftest?
09:27	TimMc	choffstein: Ask again when waxrose is in the channel. Might be a few hours, though.
09:28	choffstein	TimMc: Thanks a lot
09:29	tsdh	Is there some "initialize when first used" feature for vars? In my test, I have several defs that load huge graphs. It would be awesome if they'd be only loaded on demand.
09:29	TimMc	I don't know if he'll be able to help, but I think he got something up and running.
09:29	TimMc	tsdh: Memoized fn?
09:31	tsdh	TimMc: Not quite. But I guess I can simply wrap a function around.
09:31	TimMc	Yeah, that's what I would do.
09:32	TimMc	(def get-graph (memoize (fn [] ...)))
09:32	TimMc	Only loads on first call.
09:33	tsdh	TimMc: Oh, yes. That's even better than that what I was thinking of. :-)
09:34	TimMc	Remember that the huge graph will then be in memory until get-graph can be garbage-collected, but this should be fine for testing.
09:39	tsdh	TimMc: If it would be collected, would a subsequent call load it again?
09:39	TimMc	Yeah, but it won't be collected while your program is running, since it's a global var.
09:40	tsdh	Perfect.
09:48	TimMc	tsdh: lein test org.timmc.pipeline.test.core
09:48	TimMc	That runs a specific test file.
09:48	TimMc	Haven't figured out how to run one deftest.
09:50	TimMc	There's something about "test selectors", add a reference to a robert.hooke namespace in the source code.
09:50	TimMc	*and
09:50	tsdh	Ah, I've though test selectors were just test names.
09:54	TimMc	tsdh: https://groups.google.com/group/leiningen/browse_thread/thread/e421df80db71b2ce
10:14	tsdh	TimMc: Thanks.
10:15	TimMc	Sounds like you might need a :dev-dependencies for robert.hooke, but I'm not sure.
10:16	fliebel	TimMc: Where are you using robert.hooke?
10:22	pyr	hi
10:26	TimMc	fliebel: I'm not, I just saw that lein seems to have a dependency on it for test selectors.
10:27	clgv	I have to remove an element from a vector. if I know that it is the n-th element, is there a fast way to create a vector without it?
10:29	amalloy	clgv: no
10:30	clgv	ah a look over the cheat sheet suggests subvec might work
10:32	raek	clgv: you need to do something like (into (subvec v 0 i) (subvec v (inc i) (count v))), which has linear time complexity
10:33	clgv	the "into" leads to the linear complexity I guess
10:33	clgv	since subvec has O(1) according to documentation
10:34	chouser	clgv: also note the resulting vector will consume no less memory, IIRC
10:34	clgv	chouser: that's not important
10:34	Fossi	do you really need a new vector?
10:35	Fossi	maybe you can just lazily filter or such
10:35	clgv	I do 2 sequential readings and one random read
10:36	clgv	s/2/2 complete/
10:36	sexpbot	<clgv> I do 2 complete sequential readings and one random read
10:39	clgv	that deletion is taking about 26% of the time when I implement it with loop-recur and a transient vector
10:40	amalloy	clgv: if you only do one random read, and only want to delete one thing(?), you can just manually keep a note of what index you deleted, and so a little math to avoid picking it
10:40	amac	amalloy: hah, someone popped into the qbasic channel while I was afk
10:40	amalloy	laugh
10:40	amac	I told you its coming back!
10:40	amalloy	see? you're starting a grassroots thing
10:41	amac	its the future, clojure is passe.
10:42	clgv	amalloy: hmm could be an option if it doesnt cost to much checking it in the sequential reads all the time
10:43	amalloy	clgv: you can make the sequential reads cost nothing at all
10:43	clgv	amalloy: what do you mean?
10:43	amalloy	(concat (subvec v 0 n) (subvec v (inc n) (count v)))
10:44	amalloy	&(let [v (vec (range 10)) n 3] (concat (subvec v 0 n) (subvec v (inc n) (count v))))
10:44	sexpbot	⟹ (0 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9)
10:44	clgv	the concat will cost me linear time. thats at least as bet as my loop-recur deletion I guess
10:44	amalloy	clgv: what. no it will cost you nothing. you're already spending linear time to walk over it, and concat is lazy
10:45	clgv	ah right
10:45	amalloy	and both subvecs are O(1)
10:45	clgv	but I cant do it nested
10:45	clgv	I'll delete increasingly.
10:45	amalloy	yes. the more requirements you pile on the more complicated the answer will get :P
10:48	amalloy	maybe you should just have a sorted-map with integer keys
10:49	clgv	no. that is no option. I am thinking about a way too eliminate the "random read"
10:50	clgv	there is also another data structure involved that currently has a one-to-one correspondence
11:06	tsdh	When I have a parameter list like [x & {:keys a b c}] and I don't want to handle them but pass them through to another function, how can I do that except (other x :a a :b b :c c)?
11:07	raek	tsdh: first, {:keys a b c} --> {:keys [a b c]}
11:07	tsdh	raek: Ah, yes, just a typo.
11:07	raek	tsdh: but to answer you question: [x & {:as m}]
11:08	raek	or wait, if you will pass them as they are without inspeciting them: (defn f [& args] (apply g args))
11:10	tsdh	raek: Ah, no, you got me wrong. Currently, I have several functions like (defn foo [x & {:keys [a b c]}] (other (magic x) :a a :b b :c c)), and I'd like to stop that stupid repetition somehow.
11:11	raek	(defn foo [x & {:keys [a b c], :as m}] (apply other (magic x) (apply concat m))) is one way (but it's not very pretty)
11:12	tsdh	Or can I just say: (defn foo [x & keys] (other (magic x) keys)), and only other declares them?
11:14	raek	I think you need an 'apply' there
11:14	raek	unless 'other' takes an argument with the options on the form [:a 1 :b 2]
11:15	raek	(not a map=
11:17	tsdh	Oh, yes, I've meant (apply other (magic x) args)
11:17	tsdh	Where args = keys...
11:25	amalloy	tsdh: i'm inclined to just not use the &rest syntax, and just pass around an option map
11:26	amalloy	(defn foo [x opts] (other (magic x opts)))
11:26	amalloy	then if there are params you actually need you can pull them out, and if not don't worry about it
11:27	tsdh	amalloy: Hm, but opts is optional and would lead to many {} in calls.
11:28	amalloy	add a top-level function that sugars things up for the client before entering into your real functions
11:29	amalloy	eg if calls into your library typically start with (begin ...), you can (defn begin [arg & opts]) (begin* arg (apply hash-map opts)))
11:30	amalloy	alternatively, and i stress that this is usually the wrong answer, i have a macro that is the "opposite" of :keys
11:31	timvisher	hey all
11:31	tsdh	amalloy: But calls look like (p-apply v1 [p-seq [--> :cls 'Foo][<>-- :cls 'Bar]])
11:31	amalloy	https://github.com/amalloy/amalloy-utils/blob/master/src/amalloy/utils.clj#L32
11:31	timvisher	anyone have a minute to see if there's anything wrong with this clj repl shell script? https://gist.github.com/864408
11:32	timvisher	I had to reinstall when I moved from port to brew and now clojure-contrib doesn't seem to be included in the classpath
11:32	timvisher	lein works but I'd still like inferior-lisp every now and then
11:32	amalloy	tim: lein repl or cake repl work outside of projects
11:33	amalloy	(out of the box with cake; minimal config with lein i believe)
11:33	timvisher	amalloy: do they include clojure-contrib by default?
11:33	amalloy	timvisher: my ~/.cake/project.clj includes clojure-contrib and my personal util library
11:34	timvisher	amalloy: aha.
11:34	amalloy	and that file gets used when starting an unaffiliated repl
11:34	timvisher	Didn't know that was possible. Do you know if lein has a similar facility?
11:34	amalloy	it does
11:34	amalloy	ask technomancy what it is :P
11:34	timvisher	interesting
11:34	timvisher	i can look it up. :)
11:35	amalloy	fwiw it also includes swank, so i can start a swank server without attaching to a project
11:36	timvisher	yeah. I just switched inferior-lisp-program to lein repl and it also starts up a swank server
11:36	tsdh	Argh, if I get a NullPointerException in a line that only contains "(map" and its function starts on the next line, what might be the reason?
11:39	timvisher	amalloy: do you manually add clojure-contrib to your CLASSPATH so that cake can see it?
11:39	amalloy	no
11:39	amalloy	haven't touched CLASSPATH in five years :P
11:40	amalloy	i put it into ~/.cake/project.clj like i said
11:40	timvisher	so does cake have a set of directories that it searches by default or do you set that up somehow?
11:40	timvisher	what I mean is, lein's ~/.lein/init.clj
11:40	timvisher	which I think is the equivalent of what you're talking about
11:40	timvisher	is just arbitrary clojure code
11:40	amalloy	i don't think so
11:41	timvisher	ah
11:41	amalloy	i'm talking about a project.clj entry just like every lein project has
11:41	amalloy	cake has a global one as well
11:41	timvisher	oh ok
11:41	timvisher	so it's sort of a default project when you're outside of a real lein/cake project
11:41	amalloy	yes
11:42	amalloy	and also a parent project that all others "inherit" from
11:42	amalloy	i think
11:42	timvisher	gotcha
11:45	amalloy	timvisher: http://malloys.org/~akm/cake.tgz in all its glory
11:45	amalloy	my whole dang ~/.cake
12:33	timvisher	anyone around that could explain how to make clojure-contrib available in lein repl running outside of a project?
12:37	amalloy	alias lein="cake" :)
12:37	raek	timvisher: for me contrib is available then
12:37	raek	(with leiningen 1.4.2)
12:38	raek	I think cake has more customizable "global project" features
12:39	amalloy	no offense to lein intended there. i am pretty sure lein has an equivalent feature, but i've already said so; since i only know how to do it in cake, switching to cake is the best advice i can give
12:39	__name__	good morning.
12:40	hiredman	amalloy: ah, but once he actually wants to do anything, he'll have to switch to lein anyway
12:40	amalloy	haha ouch
12:41	amalloy	score one for team lein
12:41	hiredman	cake is absurd
12:42	timvisher	amalloy: I know that you can do it in cake, but I'm now down the rabbit hole of lein, as it were, and I'd like to figure out how to do it there.
12:43	hiredman	timvisher: why are you using build tools to run repls outside of projects?
12:43	timvisher	raek: I only have 1.4.1. But that doesn't seem like it should make that much of a difference.
12:44	timvisher	because I can't get my clj command to work. https://gist.github.com/864408
12:44	technomancy	timvisher: lein repl => (use 'clojure.contrib.logging) => nil
12:44	technomancy	WFM
12:44	hiredman	~dirt simple
12:44	clojurebot	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/dirt-simple-clojure
12:44	timvisher	perhaps there's something wrong with my clojure-contrib install...
12:45	timvisher	oh my
12:46	timvisher	OK, so I was under the impression that I could do something like (clojure.contrib.math/abs -1/3) and _not_ have to use or require.
12:46	timvisher	it appears that that assumption is wrong?
12:47	technomancy	yeah. in clojure 1.3 even some built-in stuff like clojure.set is not require'd by default
12:47	hiredman	given that no where else is it true, I would call it a bad assumption
12:48	timvisher	hiredman: it's true all over the place. I think of use and require like I think of import (which seems like a potential problem). In other words, import is a way of not having to type out java.xml.Blah every time I want to use Blah.
12:49	timvisher	so, in other words, (not (or (= 'use 'import) (= 'require 'import)))
12:49	amalloy	timvisher: (= refer import)
12:50	__name__	&(doc refer)
12:50	sexpbot	⟹ "([ns-sym & filters]); refers to all public vars of ns, subject to filters. filters can include at most one each of: :exclude list-of-symbols :only list-of-symbols :rename map-of-fromsymbol-tosymbol For each public interned var in the namespace named by the symbol, a... http://gist.github.com/864543
12:50	amalloy	(= use (comp refer require))
12:50	hiredman	timvisher: it isn't true anywhere else
12:50	timvisher	amalloy: so why do I need to explicitly require when I don't need to explicitly import?
12:51	amalloy	timvisher: because classes are not the same as namespaces?
12:51	timvisher	ok
12:52	amalloy	timvisher: for entertainment value, try (require 'clojure.contrib.repl-utils) and time how long it takes
12:52	amalloy	then ask yourself if you'd like to wait a hundred times that long every time you start a repl, so that it can load every namespace you might ever use
12:53	timvisher	yeah
12:53	timvisher	I get that. I think I've just discovered a few very large holes in my understanding of use, require, and namespaces.
12:53	amalloy	heh
12:53	timvisher	back to the drawing board with those topics, I guess
12:54	timvisher	thank's very much, everyone
12:54	amalloy	timvisher: require is a "lisp thing". probably best to draw a mental line between that and import
12:54	amalloy	(dividing them, not connecting them)
12:54	joelr	is there anything wrong with this sequence of code? (for [file files] (with-open [rdr (io/reader file)] (log/spy rdr)))
12:55	timvisher	joelr: what behavior are you seeing that you don't like?
12:56	timvisher	there doesn't appear to be anything syntatically wrong that I can see.
12:57	joelr	timvisher: for whatever reason, i print the # of files and it's fine, then that code does not print anything
12:57	timvisher	I think you're bumping up against it's laziness
12:57	timvisher	I'd use doseq instead
12:58	joelr	timvisher: i think you are right. let me look at doseq
12:58	timvisher	someone better than me can use the clojure bot to print the docs
12:58	joelr	timvisher: still, it's very strange behavior
12:58	timvisher	not really, unless I'm wrong. clojure tries to be as lazy as possible
12:59	timvisher	it is weird though if you're not used to it
12:59	joelr	timvisher: but shouldn't log "force" the results?
12:59	timvisher	not if that for expression is the only thing in your code.
13:00	timvisher	what that'll do, if my mental model is right, is basically transform each of the items in files into a function that can be called
13:00	timvisher	but not call any of them
13:00	timvisher	until something else comes along and consumes the sequence
13:00	timvisher	which is why something like doseq is usefuly
13:00	timvisher	the way I see it is as an eager for.
13:01	joelr	timvisher: thanks
13:01	joelr	timvisher: i think the key point here is that for collects results. this is where laziness is coming from. it's saving my printing for later.
13:01	timvisher	but don't trust me too much, I'm still very new at this as well. :)
13:02	timvisher	exactly
13:02	timvisher	at least if my mental model is right. :)
13:02	timvisher	it's tough too if you're used to exploring in the repl
13:02	timvisher	because the repl will always force the results
13:02	amalloy	timvisher: good summary
13:02	amalloy	and it's pretty easy to get a bot to show you docs
13:02	amalloy	&(doc for)
13:02	timvisher	whereas as soon as you move it into an actual clojure project, you loose a lot of eager behavior
13:02	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost f... http://gist.github.com/864558
13:03	timvisher	Ah. where are the docs for the bots on this channel?
13:03	amalloy	sexpbot even responds to inline requests with ##, like ##(doc doseq)
13:03	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
13:04	amalloy	hah, docs for the bots. you wish. the closest you'll get for sexpbot is https://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot/wiki/Commands
13:05	amalloy	you'll probably have better luck asking me or Raynes about sexpbot, or hiredman for clojurebot; and better luck still watching what people do and then stealing it
13:05	timvisher	yeah
13:05	timvisher	so it is it just sexpbot and clojurebot on here?
13:06	timvisher	i'm more used to the emacs channel
13:06	amalloy	yeah they're the main bots. if there are others they're lurking
13:06	timvisher	good stuff
13:06	timvisher	well this has been educational
13:06	amalloy	haha
13:07	timvisher	and i contributed. hurray!
13:07	timvisher	:)
13:07	amalloy	(inc timvisher)
13:07	sexpbot	⟹ 1
13:08	clgv	$8ball
13:08	sexpbot	clgv: Outlook good.
13:08	clgv	$8ball
13:08	sexpbot	clgv: Ask again later.
13:09	amalloy	clgv: it's more interesting if you say
13:09	amalloy	$8ball will people get annoyed at clgv's sudden overuse of sexpbot?
13:09	sexpbot	amalloy: Outlook good.
13:09	clgv	:P
13:09	amalloy	$timer 0:20:0
13:09	clgv	$dec amalloy
13:09	sexpbot	⟹ 4
13:10	clgv	$karma amalloy
13:10	clgv	$dec amalloy
13:10	sexpbot	⟹ 3
13:10	clgv	lol hihi ;)
13:10	clgv	time to finish work and go home
13:10	clgv	cya all
13:11	amalloy	that's weird. $karma amalloy should have worked as far as i can tell from reading the source (it's not my plugin)
13:14	buttered-toast	(inc amalloy)
13:14	sexpbot	⟹ 4
13:14	buttered-toast	(inc amalloy)
13:14	sexpbot	⟹ 5
13:14	amalloy	:P
13:16	amalloy	(that was my fork of sexpbot just now. karma isn't terribly important but it's even less important if it gets dec'd/inc'd arbitrarily
13:29	sexpbot	amalloy: ping
14:24	pyr	hi, I want my log4j.properties file to end up in the uberjar created by leiningen
14:24	pyr	how would I go about doing that ?
14:26	technomancy	pyr: slap it in the resources/ directory
14:26	pyr	thanks, lein new didn't create this one :)
14:32	tsdh	What does it mean if leiningen cannot fetch org.apache.maven:super-pom:jar:2.0?
14:32	amalloy	tsdh: generally it means you're misunderstanding maven's error message (i always do too)
14:32	amalloy	scroll way the hell up to see which library it actually had trouble with
14:35	tsdh	amalloy: I get a backtrace... http://pastebin.com/3VJdQen4
14:35	amalloy	don't depend on 1.2.0-snapshot
14:35	amalloy	just 1.2.0
14:36	amalloy	(and figure out which library you depend on itself depends on the snapshot, if it's not you. usually it's labrepl)
14:36	tsdh	amalloy: Not my lib. But changing to 1.2.0 worked.
14:37	rick__	Where can I find an up to date slime/swank + clojure tutorial? All the ones I've found use "swank-clojure-autoload" "swank-clojure/src/emacs" but they're not there in the git repositories (github.com/jochu). Any ideas?
14:37	tsdh	amalloy: I wouldn't have come to the conclusion that this is the cause for years. :-)
14:38	technomancy	rick__: is the readme insufficient?
14:38	amalloy	tsdh: projects should have future-proof dependencies like "[1.2.0-SNAPSHOT,1.2.0]", but they usually don't
14:39	amalloy	technomancy: isn't your repo the canonical source now, not jochu?
14:39	tsdh	amalloy: Blame ninjudd. ;-)
14:39	amalloy	i always do :)
14:39	tsdh	Haha
14:40	technomancy	amalloy: yeah, but they have the same readme
14:40	rick__	technomancy: tbh I haven't read it.. :x
14:45	tsdh	How do I tell leiningen to compile some project into a jar?
14:46	brehaut	lein jar ?
14:46	tsdh	lein compile doesn't seem to do anything, lein jar packs only the sources.
14:46	technomancy	tsdh: depends; why do you want .class files in the jar
14:46	technomancy	?
14:46	Fossi	:D
14:47	Fossi	such a great question XD
14:47	tsdh	So that I can put it in the CLASSPATH of another project.
14:47	Fossi	"why in hell would you want any .class files in your jar? are you insane?"
14:47	tsdh	technomancy: The project I want to jar contains a clj part and a jvm java part.
14:47	dnolen	man this makes me want a Clojure->JS even more, http://www-sop.inria.fr/indes/scheme2js/
14:48	technomancy	tsdh: ok, so you're using gen-class or deftype or some such? add the namespaces that need AOT to :aot [my.funky.ns my.other.ns] in project.clj
14:49	technomancy	or is it java source you need to run javac over? for that you set :java-source-path.
14:49	tsdh	technomancy: Yes, java and clojure source.
14:51	pjstadig	dnolen: another project of inria...make me want to move to france
14:51	ossareh	dnolen: I've been thinking about that - in my case I'd like to write "normal" clojure and have some compilation process to JS - I don't want to write js in clojure.
14:52	ossareh	javascript has a BNF, I assume clojure does too?
14:52	dnolen	pjstadig: heh.
14:53	dnolen	ossareh: that's what Scheme2Js does.
14:53	dnolen	they even published a couple papers on how they implemented tail call optimization.
14:54	edw	Is there a statistician in the house? Or, does anyone know if there's a stats freenode channel?
14:54	gregh	http://stats.stackexchange.com/ :)
14:55	edw	Ah. Thanks.
14:55	TimMc	ossareh: Braces, symbols, and some reader macros. What more do you need?
14:55	brehaut	TimMc: special forms
14:56	TimMc	brehaut: For parsing?
14:57	brehaut	not for parsing
14:57	brehaut	but parsing an sexp doesnt really provide the same information as say the BNF for javascript
14:57	TimMc	Ah, OK.
14:57	brehaut	once you have parsed some javascript you know what the blocks anf functions and whatever are
14:58	TimMc	do-expr, let-expr, etc.
14:58	TimMc	fn-call
14:58	brehaut	TimMc: http://clojure.org/special_forms that stuff
14:59	TimMc	ossareh: As far as I know, Clojure does not yet have a formal spec.
15:00	chouser	do primitive args work on forward-declared fns?
15:01	hiredman	seems like they should
15:01	hiredman	decalare is just about the name
15:01	hiredman	the var
15:01	hiredman	the primitive part is from the fn object
15:02	hiredman	unless the primitive stuff uses extra metadata
15:02	hiredman	the new fnloader stuff may mean that primitive fns aren't run as primitive the first time
15:03	tsdh	lein compile always gives me "FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/lang/PersistentOrderedSet__init.class or clojure/lang/PersistentOrderedSet.clj on classpath". But there is classes/clojure/lang/PersistentOrderedSet.class.
15:04	chouser	(declare a) (defn b [] (a 1)) (defn a [^long i] ...)
15:05	chouser	It seems like b might compile the call to a with autoboxing. How could it not, actually?
15:06	dnolen	chouser: I recall rhickey saying, re-defing forces callers to recompile their bodies I thought upon call.
15:07	chouser	recompiling a function when it's called? Sorry if I remain suspicious...
15:07	dnolen	that's how redefing is supported in post-dynamic-by-default world.
15:07	hiredman	I dunno about recompiling
15:07	hiredman	possible some kind of thunk thing like with keyword callsites
15:07	dnolen	that's what I remember, could be wrong o course.
15:08	TimMc	Could this be detremined using a macro with side effects?
15:08	chouser	probably not
15:09	raek	tsdh: looks like you are trying to 'require' or 'use' a java class
15:10	hiredman	he could have meant that you need to recompile callers
15:10	hiredman	not that the compiler does it for you
15:10	tsdh	raek: Yeah, the project has 1 java class and one clj file. The java class is successfully compiled to classes/clojure/lang/PersistentOrderedSet.class, and then I get that error.
15:11	amalloy	tsdh: his point is that you don't use/require java classes, you import them
15:11	hiredman	wow, invokePrim is cute
15:12	tsdh	amalloy: That's true.
15:12	raek	the JVM handles class loading automatically, so as long the class in available on the classpath you should be able to instantiate it using (clojure.lang.PersistentOrderedSet. ...) without importing or requireing anything
15:13	tsdh	Ok, now I switched import versus use, and now lein compile errors with: Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate ordered_set__init.class or ordered_set.clj on classpath
15:13	dnolen	hiredman: you don't need need to recompile callers. that was the problem with ^:static.
15:14	dnolen	new world avoids that mess.
15:14	hiredman	dnolen: for vars
15:14	hiredman	but is that really the case for primitive fns?
15:15	dnolen	hiredman: all i know is, I can now declare primitive fns whenever I want and I don't have to recompile callers.
15:16	TimMc	jkkramer: I'm failing to understand the proper syntax for edges in the digraph constructor.
15:16	raek	tsdh: looks like src/ordered_set.clj is missing
15:17	tsdh	raek: it's in src/clj/
15:20	dnolen	hiredman: chouser: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2010-10-18.html#18:35a
15:20	raek	and src/clj/ is on the classpath rather than src/ ?
15:20	TimMc	jkkramer: Cancel that, there was an impedance mismatch. :-)
15:21	hiredman	dnolen: right, but doesn't mention compiling
15:22	tsdh	raek: I have to admit, that I have no clue, I don't even know what AOT stands for...
15:23	TimMc	map != mapcat
15:23	TimMc	tsdh: Ahead Of Time
15:24	raek	tsdh: (I'm assuming leiningen here) you need to set :source-path "src/clj/" in your project.clj. otherwise "src/" will be treated as the source root
15:26	hiredman	dnolen: the compiler seems to convert the a call of (foo 1 2) where foo is a primitive fn to (.invokePrim foo 1 2) and then compile it
15:26	raek	(either that or change the require/use form to "clj.ordered-set", but I assume that you don't want to have "clj" as a part of your namespace)
15:26	dnolen	hiredman: so it is a recompile?
15:26	hiredman	possibly AFn's invokePrim has magic to avoid the need to recompile
15:28	raek	tsdh: also, AOT compilation = ahead of time compilation.
15:29	tsdh	raek: Hm, even with both :java-source-path and :source-path it doesn't work. http://pastebin.com/QrJn1JC3
15:31	raek	tsdh: clojure.lang.PersistentOrderedSet shouldn't be in :aot. :aot is only for clojure code. leiningen makes sure that all .java files in :java-source-path gets compiled when you run "lein compile"
15:32	tsdh	raek: Yeah! That does work. Great!
15:32	dnolen	chouser: hiredman: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2010-10-15.html#12:22e, ok maybe not recompile :) I'm not sure what "reload cache" entails.
15:32	raek	tsdh: a project that has both clojure and java source https://github.com/raek/map-exception
15:33	hiredman	dnolen: must be something like the call site cache for keywords on records
15:33	tsdh	Argh, too easy. technomancy has dazzled me with this AOT thingy. :-)
15:33	hiredman	dnolen: that is a different thing though
15:33	hiredman	non-dynamic vars and primitive functions are two entirely different features moving towards the same goal of performance
15:34	raek	tsdh: if you have :gen-class in any namespace, then that namespace needs to be aot compiled
15:34	tsdh	raek: I don't.
15:35	hiredman	dnolen: rich is contrasting non-dynamic vars to the "static" call site linking you got with :static
15:41	dnolen	hiredman: ah, gotcha.
15:43	hiredman	so now there are var callsite caches, protocol caches, and keyword caches, I suppose there could be primitive caches too
15:45	angerman	how do i check if a var is already bound?
15:46	angerman	ahh, i need the #' syntax
15:51	hiredman	,#'foo
15:51	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: foo in this context
15:59	angerman	hiredman: I choked on (bound? foo) :D
16:08	angerman	Subdividing a cube under planarity constrains with clojure and jReality: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/281539/jReality-planar-subd.mov
16:08	angerman	if only the second iteration wouldn't break :/
16:09	jweiss	I have a macro that expands into code that logs with java.util.logging. if I don't specify the class and method to log with, it will use "sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0" which I assume happens because it's being invoked via reflection. So I want to specify. I can get the "class" right with (str ns) i think. But the method? seems like my macro would have to know the name of the surrounding defn.
16:12	jweiss	I don't think it's possible to write (defn myblahfn [] (somecode) ) such that "somecode" will print whatever the fn name is (in this case "myblahfn")
16:13	angerman	hmm… what do the *-vars say?
16:13	jweiss	*-vars?
16:14	angerman	sorry. just had a look at the documentation; there's nothing to hold onto as far as i can see :/
16:15	jweiss	yeah, i sorta expected not
16:15	jweiss	how do people use the various logging utilities then?
16:15	jweiss	seems like no matter what, you end up with wrong class/method locations.
16:15	angerman	you could though wrap defn, and inject a (binding [current-fn …] … )
16:16	angerman	and the (meta …) of that fn tells you line and a bunch more.
16:16	amalloy	jweiss: most clojure logging uses the namespace as the smallest unit of logging; ns/line is plenty of info to debug without needing ns/class/line
16:17	angerman	ahh well. good night...
16:17	raek	are these two proxies the same? https://gist.github.com/864942
16:18	raek	(I prefer the first one since I can replace prepare-renderer with #'prepare-renderer, but I want to be sure I don't construct a broken proxy)
16:21	jweiss	amalloy: java.util.logging does not use line numbers.
16:21	jweiss	just class/method.
16:23	ev4l	good morning everyone. can anyone explain to me why this happens?
16:24	ev4l	(if (> 2 4) (println "bigger") (println "smaller"))
16:24	ev4l	> bigger
16:24	ev4l	> nil
16:24	hsbot	mueval-core: L.hs: removeLink: does not exist (No such file or directory)
16:24	hsbot	Not in scope: `nil'
16:24	ev4l	(if (> 2 4) (println "bigger") ((println "smaller") (println "number")))
16:24	ev4l	> smaller
16:24	ev4l	> number
16:24	hsbot	Not in scope: `smaller'
16:24	ev4l	java.jang.NullPointerException (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
16:24	hsbot	Not in scope: `number'
16:24	ev4l	why am i getting a NullPointerException when i have a multi-statement else form?
16:25	edw	What is this mult-statement else form you refer to?
16:25	ev4l	the second one
16:25	edw	Yeah, that's not legal.
16:25	jweiss	,(if (> 2 4) :bigger :smaller)
16:25	clojurebot	:smaller
16:25	edw	((println...) (println ...)) fails because println returns nil. Nil is not a function.
16:26	amalloy	edw: it's not "Not legal", it's just not what he means
16:26	ev4l	there are no ways to run two statements or more at the else form?
16:26	edw	Right, good point.
16:26	edw	(do (println 'foo) (println 'bar))
16:27	ev4l	hmm, nice, lemme check
16:27	amalloy	this is funny because i was ev4l a year ago. i was in #lisp going like "well why can't the dang computer just tell that i mean ((f1 blah) (f2 blah)) as a list instead of some other crazy thing"
16:28	ev4l	amalloy: you're joking ... lol
16:28	amalloy	&(if (< 1 0) (do (print true) (print 1)) (do (print false) (print 0)))
16:28	sexpbot	⟹ false0nil
16:28	edw	amalloy: I remember back in the day having to unlearn my tendency from C to "when in doubt, throw more parens in."
16:29	ev4l	edw: amalloy my logic is that every statement should be enclosed in a () form :D
16:29	amalloy	ev4l: start by taking the word "statement" out of your vocab
16:30	jweiss	there are no statements in lisp (or at least, no diff between expression and statement)
16:30	ev4l	jweiss: nice. got your point
16:31	amalloy	ev4l: ##(= 10 (if (< 9 5) 0 10))
16:31	sexpbot	⟹ true
16:32	amalloy	because everything is an expression, you can put if-expressions anywhere you would put, say, an addition-expression
16:34	ev4l	amalloy: lol... still addicted to the fact of if being a special syntactic element
16:34	ev4l	(in most languages)
16:35	__name__	I don't see how that is such a change.
16:35	TimMc	ev4l: Just pretend it's the ternary operator. :-)
16:36	amalloy	TimMc: indeed
16:36	amalloy	now do the same for (for) :)
16:36	tsdh	When I have a nested vector of function symbols like [a [b c d] a], and I want to put a numbering as metadata on them, how would I do that? I guess with clojure.walk, but how to do the "counter"?
16:36	TimMc	Though... I wonder if the ternary operator evaluates all its arguments ahead of time, in various languages.
16:36	amalloy	TimMc: i can't think of any languages where it does
16:36	amalloy	not even php is that dumb
16:37	ev4l	amalloy: jweiss TimMc : thankx a bunch :D
16:37	TimMc	for is a list comprehension, like in Python
16:37	TimMc	(I can't do any better than that.)
16:39	amalloy	TimMc: feh. python. that one wouldn't work for me
16:39	TimMc	:-P
16:41	TimMc	I'm so close to having this logic pipeline utility working!
16:41	TimMc	I just need to figure out why it's being picky about which logic blocks get executed. >_>
16:42	TimMc	Then I'll need to figure out this whole packaging and clojars and Maven thing.
16:42	amalloy	TimMc: it is omg so easy
16:43	amalloy	esp assuming you already have an ssh keypair
16:43	TimMc	That I do.
16:43	currentB	can anyone recommend a good course of action for learning to do TDD in clojure, having never done really any testing before?
16:43	amalloy	(1) get a clojars account (2) associate keypair with it (3) cake release
16:44	raek	tsdh: there happens to be an example of that here: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.walk/postwalk
16:44	jweiss	I can't seem to figure out how to split the string "asdfsd$tyutyu" at the "$" character. (split blah #"\\$") doesn't work
16:45	tsdh	raek: Oh, great. So that's how to use atoms... :-)
16:45	amalloy	&(split-with #{\$} "asdfsd$tyutyu")
16:45	sexpbot	⟹ [() (\a \s \d \f \s \d \$ \t \y \u \t \y \u)]
16:45	amalloy	&(split-with (complement #{\$}) "asdfsd$tyutyu")
16:45	sexpbot	⟹ [(\a \s \d \f \s \d) (\$ \t \y \u \t \y \u)]
16:45	amalloy	jweiss: warning: that is like the worst solution there is
16:46	jweiss	i think my problem is being unable to specify a literal $ to the java regex machine
16:46	TimMc	jweiss: Backslash it?
16:46	jweiss	maybe emacs is screweing me. it will only let me add double backslash
16:46	raek	jweiss: (ns foo.bar (:require [clojure.string :as str])) (str/split "asdfsd$tyutyu" #"\$")
16:46	jweiss	ah there we go
16:46	raek	=> ["asdfsd" "tyutyu"]
16:46	TimMc	jweiss: which is then read as a single backslash.
16:47	jweiss	no, in emacs i really had to type a single backslash
16:47	jweiss	nd then it says "Escaping Character..." in the minibuffer
16:47	jweiss	that kinda threw me
16:48	TimMc	,(count "\\$")
16:48	clojurebot	2
16:48	TimMc	Oh wait, I misread you, sorry.
16:58	powrtoc	has anyone here used clojure.contrib.dataflow?
17:00	powrtoc	It seems it's only good for static cells as the macro they use to expose node names uses the symbol you give it for the cell name, and doesn't seem to let you generate a symbol programatically
17:02	raek	a common symptom of macroitis...
17:02	powrtoc	raek, quite
17:03	powrtoc	it's a PITA... was wondering if I could wrap it in a macro to generate the symbol I need
17:03	fliebel	You see, macros are contagious.
17:03	powrtoc	yeah :-\
17:03	raek	cgrand was right!
17:03	fliebel	he still is, I hope...
17:05	powrtoc	but I don't think wrapping it works... as macros are compile time, and that's when the symbol name needs to be specified
17:07	raek	powrtoc: can you use build-standard-cell, build-source-cell or build-validator-cell? (note, I haven't used dataflow, but the macro expands into calls to those fns)
17:09	powrtoc	raek, Yeah I looked at that... the problem is build-standard-cell (which is the case I want), needs to get-deps which is a private function to the namespace
17:10	raek	that can be circumvented... >:)
17:10	raek	well, relying on private fns are not very good to do of course...
17:10	powrtoc	raek, how do you circumvent it?
17:11	powrtoc	(other than copying the fn into my namespace)
17:11	raek	,(require 'clojure.contrib.dataflow)
17:11	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/dataflow__init.class or clojure/contrib/dataflow.clj on classpath:
17:11	amalloy	powrtoc: (#'somens/somefn args)
17:13	powrtoc	amalloy, cute
17:15	powrtoc	hmmm... has anyone here tried dgraph? https://github.com/gcv/dgraph
17:16	raek	what is the best way of detecting when a JFrame is closed? I want a watcher to be in place when the frame is visible and for it to be removed when the frame is closed.
17:17	amalloy	raek: http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/Window.html#addWindowListener%28java.awt.event.WindowListener%29
17:19	amalloy	raek: proxy WindowAdapter and put your logic on windowClosed
17:23	TimMc	$findfn #(= % 9) [6 4 5 9 7] 3
17:23	sexpbot	[]
17:23	TimMc	$findfn #(= % 9) [6 4 5 9 7] 9
17:23	sexpbot	[]
17:23	fliebel	powrtoc: Woa, looks nice :)
17:23	amalloy	TimMc: you're looking for indexof?
17:24	TimMc	Perhaps.
17:24	amalloy	&(.indexOf [6 4 5 9 7] 4)
17:24	sexpbot	⟹ 1
17:24	raek	amalloy: I did an experiment with a proxy and some printlns. "closing" seems to be called, but "closed" is not
17:24	amalloy	raek: k. it's been a long time since i knew details about the difference
17:25	TimMc	amalloy: No, I want to use a predicate
17:26	amalloy	TimMc: keep-indexed?
17:26	raek	setDefaultCloseOperation accepts both HIDE_ON_CLOSE and DISPOSE_ON_CLOSE. investigates
17:26	amalloy	raek: hide leaves the object alive
17:26	amalloy	so that you can (.show) it later
17:26	amalloy	dispose destroys it
17:28	raek	but how do I detect that it gets hidden? windowClosed is not called when I close the window.
17:29	TimMc	amalloy: Hmm, perhaps.
17:30	raek	ah. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/622814/window-events-for-jframes-that-are-hidden-shown-via-setvisible
17:32	TimMc	amalloy: Yay!
17:33	amalloy	TimMc: i think i wrote this code like yesterday for someone else
17:33	amalloy	in the #clojure logs
17:33	amalloy	(after stealing the idea from hiredman)
17:34	TimMc	amalloy: I implemented the Collatz calculation as a series of logic blocks and registers, and it works!
17:34	amalloy	nice
17:35	TimMc	https://github.com/timmc/pipeline/blob/master/test/org/timmc/pipeline/test/core.clj#L87
17:35	TimMc	It's a very contrived test-case.
17:39	amalloy	can you think of any use of collatz that is not contrived and/or useless?
17:39	TimMc	heh
17:40	TimMc	So... it's doubly contrived!
17:42	raek	now this is starting to become something! http://raek.se/gophure.png
17:47	amalloy	raek: not sure why, nor whether you care, but that font/layout makes me think of EULAs for some reason
17:49	raek	since that directory contains the text "PLEASE READ" and "LEGAL INFORMATION", I'm not surprised by your reaction... ;-)
17:54	TimMc	I also need a decent name for this thing. It's a behavioral simulator for digital circuits, using arbitrary-valued "wires" (not just booleans.) You initialize it with a set of registers and then step it forward, and can check the value on each wire or register.
17:54	TimMc	"Pipeline" is the current name, but that's what I'll be using it for, not what it is.
17:55	TimMc	I'm kind of tempted to give up and name it after some animal or pastry. -.-
17:55	brehaut	what about 'wijure' :P
17:56	amalloy	clojd-circuit :P
17:57	TimMc	Those are both brilliant suggestions that I would totally take if I were a bad person.
17:57	amalloy	OMG. C-= and C-- change text size in the current buffer. how did i go so many months as a visually-impaired user not knowing this
17:58	TimMc	You're not visually impaired, I can see you just fine!
17:58	amalloy	TimMc: i'm typing extra small for you
18:07	edoloughlin	Easiest way to achieve this: (assoc {} ["key" "val"]) - i.e., I've got a vector I want to use as key, value? Best I can come up with is (assoc {} (first ["key" "val"]) (second ["key" "val"])) but this seems ugly...
18:07	TimMc	The name should probably have something to do with "cycle" or "circular", since it is specifically for logic circuits that loop back on themselves and change only on clock cycles.
18:08	TimMc	,(into {} ["key" "val"])
18:08	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry
18:08	raek	edoloughlin: ##(conj {} ["key" "val"])
18:08	sexpbot	⟹ {"key" "val"}
18:08	TimMc	,(into {} [["key" "val"]])
18:08	clojurebot	{"key" "val"}
18:08	TimMc	,(apply assoc {} ["key" "val"])
18:08	clojurebot	{"key" "val"}
18:09	brehaut	,(apply hash-map [:key :val])
18:09	clojurebot	{:key :val}
18:09	edoloughlin	TimMc: thanks. Still don't have API muscle memory...
18:09	raek	TimMc: maybe "signal"?
18:10	TimMc	I'mma grab me a thesaurus.
18:13	TimMc	Oh, huh... "circuit" is related to "circular".
18:20	TimMc	short-circuit? feedback?
18:24	edoloughlin	raek: apologies, didn't notice your conj solution earlier
18:24	brehaut	TimMc: johnny-5
18:25	TimMc	brehaut: Error: Could not dereference symbol "johnny-5"
18:25	brehaut	TimMc: not a child of the 80s then
18:25	TimMc	Nope, born in 1984.
18:25	brehaut	johnny 5 is the robot from the movie Short Circuit
18:25	TimMc	Oh, ha!
18:25	brehaut	he was also programmed in lisp
18:26	companion_cube	do you have a Big Brother, TimMc ?
18:26	brehaut	(seriously, you can see big green blurry lisp in the movie)
18:26	TimMc	companion_cube: No, only child.
18:32	amalloy	TimMc: i like feedback
18:33	amalloy	also: tired of old fogies like TimMc - 1985 all the way
18:33	TimMc	johnny-5 is a pretty good name, though I'd feel weird about referencing a character from a movie I hadn't actually seen. :-P
18:33	amalloy	brehaut: that's neat. i haven't watched the movie since picking up lisp
18:35	TimMc	So, would I name the project org.timmc/feedback ? (I own timmc.org)
18:36	amalloy	TimMc: you could, and java would
18:36	__name__	why is it not mc tim?
18:36	__name__	that'd be an awesome rap name.
18:36	TimMc	heh
18:36	amalloy	the trend in clojure is to just use "feedback" on the theory nobody else will want it. your name is so general that they might though
18:36	__name__	jo, i'm mc tim!
18:37	amalloy	__name__: and i'm here (to lisp)
18:37	TimMc	__name__: I really want tim.mc, but I think I'd have to start a business in Monaco.
18:37	TimMc	It's available though.
18:38	TimMc	and then my reverse domain would be mc.tim
18:38	brehaut	ive not bothered with the RDN packages for my own stuff
18:38	__name__	\o/
18:38	amalloy	TimMc: take it anyway
18:38	TimMc	haha
18:38	amalloy	my utility project is in namespace amalloy.utils
18:39	TimMc	mc.tim/feedback?
18:39	brehaut	it wouldnt be slash, because thats the contents of a namespace
18:39	brehaut	raher than a namespace itself
18:39	TimMc	Oh right.
18:40	TimMc	I was mixing up the Maven stuff with namespaces.
18:40	TimMc	arg
18:40	raek	works as a grop/artifact id for maven repos though
18:40	raek	*group
18:40	TimMc	I really shouldn't take mc.tim as a group if I don't have the domain, since it would be a valid domain.
18:41	brehaut	amalloy: that gist i sent you is doing a bunch of busywork with the bracket counting; it never actually uses that information. i think you can get away with the implicit stack of the parser, just use failpoint to work out what kind of error you have
18:41	TimMc	org.timmc/feedback <-- would it make sense to just have ./src/feedback.clj, or should I use feedback.core instead?
18:44	raek	why not org/timmc/feedback.clj?
18:45	TimMc	Does the artifact ID have anything to do with the namespaces?
18:46	raek	iirc, the .core suffix was added in leiningen to default to a non-empty package (since Java chokes on that somethimes)
18:46	raek	namespaces and group+artifact id does not have to have anything in common
18:47	raek	(technically)
18:48	TimMc	Then org/timmc/feedback.clj with identifier org.timmc/feedback ? Sounds reasonable.
18:48	raek	the project I am working on now is called [se.raek/gophure-swing "1.0.0"] and has its main namespace as se.raek.gophure.swing
18:48	brehaut	TimMc: yes
18:48	raek	TimMc: that would be how I would do it... :) (note that there are other convetions as well)
18:49	raek	for projects to be in the central maven repo, the group id has to be a real domain name and you have to own it
18:49	brehaut	TimMc: i'm a bit lazier so my xml-rpc lib is 'necessary-evil' for the the identifier and 'necessary-evil.core' for the primary namespace
18:51	TimMc	And last thing... versioning. Should I just leave it as 0.1.0-SNAPSHOT for now?
18:51	brehaut	if its just a snapshot yes. if its actually your 0.1.0 release: no
18:52	TimMc	sure
18:52	TimMc	For releases, I remove snapshot, bump the version appropriately, tag, and release?
18:53	brehaut	yeah pretty much
18:53	TimMc	OK, sweet.
18:53	raek	...and obey the rules of http://semver.org/ :)
18:53	TimMc	raek: indeed
18:55	brehaut	TimMc: thats important; necessary-evil is accidentally a 1.0.0 project because i forgot to wind back the version before doing the first release, so now because semantic versioning, im not allowed to do that. luckily not much needs to change
18:56	TimMc	Yeah, I was surprised that lein uses 1.0.0-SNAPSHOT as the default.
19:06	amalloy	i changed ~/.cake/project.clj to use 0.0.1 (not snapshot)
19:08	TimMc	What is the point of snapshot, anyway?
19:09	powrtoc	do futures execute on their own thread or the agent thread pool?
19:09	amalloy	TimMc: git HEAD without git access
19:09	amalloy	basically
19:09	TimMc	(going AFK for dinner)
19:09	powrtoc	I can never remember
19:09	amalloy	powrtoc: new thread
19:12	hiredman	no, it is the same threadpool that send-oof uses
19:12	hiredman	send-off
19:13	amalloy	$source send-off
19:13	sexpbot	send-off is http://is.gd/h4vV3P
19:14	rata_	is there anything special about a ring app that could make my (def foo (atom {})) clear unexpectedly?
19:16	amalloy	hiredman: neat. so it reuses threads, but there's no limit to how many of them can exist at once, right?
19:16	rata_	amalloy: yes
19:17	rata_	isn't a atom or ref supposed to be the normal way to store state in a webapp?
19:18	hiredman	depends, generally you'll want to stick state in some kind of external datastore
19:19	amalloy	rata_: are you using reload middleware? that might reload the namespace
19:19	brehaut	rata_: what server/adapter are you using for your ring app?
19:19	rata_	amalloy: yes, I'm using the reload middleware... I'll try with defonce
19:20	rata_	brehaut: I don't really understand your question
19:20	brehaut	rata_: are you using jetty with the ring.adapter.jetty adapter ?
19:20	rata_	(I'm new to ring and web development)
19:20	rata_	brehaut: yes
19:21	brehaut	rata_: then amalloy's guess is the best.
19:21	brehaut	the jetty adapter does nothing fancy with your application
19:21	rata_	ok
19:23	rata_	oh thank you guys =) it doesn't get clear now
19:25	amalloy	omg i helped with a ring app. i can't even write a ring app
19:25	brehaut	ahaha
19:25	brehaut	thats the secret of ring: its nothing special
19:29	weilawei	If I have something of a type #<Context org.zeromq.ZMQ$Context@384ab40a> (or ZMQ$Context) in clojure, why do I need the ZMQ$ bit.. and what's it mean in java? I can't do (. ZMQ Context) and get a Context class or anything.
19:29	weilawei	(note, im not a java programmer and new to clojure)
19:30	hiredman	the $ is part of the class name
19:31	hiredman	package is org.zeromq and the class is ZMQ$Context
19:31	hiredman	$ means something in java but you don't really have to care about it
19:37	weilawei	thanks hiredman :)
19:37	weilawei	is there any way i can import it as Context? or use it like that?
19:38	weilawei	technomancy: but i like zeromq and I use it from C already >_<
19:38	technomancy	well if you're familiar with the APIs it's a plus, but JVM libraries that call into C can often cause difficult-to-diagnose build/distribution problems.
19:40	hiredman	weilawei: I would just use as is, there are some things you could do to fiddle what clojure symbol maps to what class in a given namespace, but it's generally better not to
19:40	danlarkin	I have found this is the best way to bring it into a leiningen project, https://github.com/Storkle/jzmq-native-deps
19:47	powrtoc	if I have a tree of nested maps... e.g. {:p {:p {:p nil :k 3} :k 2} :k1} whats the best way to walk it up the :p keys, executing a side-effecting function for each map?
19:47	powrtoc	obviously loop/recur work .. but is there a nice oneliner?
19:48	powrtoc	I want to bottom out on the nil
19:48	hiredman	,(doc tree-seq)
19:48	clojurebot	"([branch? children root]); Returns a lazy sequence of the nodes in a tree, via a depth-first walk. branch? must be a fn of one arg that returns true if passed a node that can have children (but may ...
22:34	waxrose	Morning all.