#clojure – 2010-12-12

2010-12-12

03:07	kumarshantanu	hi, is there a shorter way to write this: #(and (number? %) (pos? %))
03:38	pppaul	write your own function and call it (positive-number?)
03:39	kumarshantanu	pppaul: that's what I just did :)
03:39	pppaul	you may be able to get away with just (pos?) no?
03:39	kumarshantanu	,(pos? :hello)
03:39	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
03:39	pppaul	ewww
03:39	pppaul	oh well
03:42	kumarshantanu	is there a function to find out the index in a vector? (foo [:a :b :c]) --> [0 1 2]
03:43	kumarshantanu	not exactly like the foo above, but some variations
03:43	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: you mean given [1 2 3] and 2, the result should be 1?
03:44	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: I want to find out the indexes of positive numbers in a vector
03:45	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: there is no built-in fn for that, but can be written trivially.
03:58	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: did you write the function?
03:59	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: almost..I zipmap'ed (take elem-count (iterate 0)) and the vector
04:00	kumarshantanu	and then filter'ed to find out which keys were affected
04:01	kumarshantanu	not sure if this is the most efficient way though
04:03	kumarshantanu	s/iterate 0/iterate inc 0/
04:04	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: you can use for. let me give you a quick example.
04:05	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: sure
04:08	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117598
04:12	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: version 1 is cool (short) but it returns the indices in reverse order
04:12	kumarshantanu	version 2 maintains the order
04:12	kumarshantanu	both are cool though
04:12	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: yes. you can do a reverse on it if you care about the order.
04:13	raek	there's map-indexed in core too...
04:13	raek	,(doc map-indexed)
04:13	clojurebot	"([f coll]); Returns a lazy sequence consisting of the result of applying f to 0 and the first item of coll, followed by applying f to 1 and the second item in coll, etc, until coll is exhausted. Thu...
04:14	G0SUB	raek: yes. that got added in 1.2. completely forgot :)
04:15	raek	too bad stuarthalloway's 'indexed' from Programming Clojure isn't there
04:15	kumarshantanu	learned today -- map-indexed and remove (I should be reading the core/docs often)
04:16	raek	(defn indexed [coll] (map vector (iterate inc 0) coll))
04:16	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: thanks!
04:16	G0SUB	raek: yes, that's useful when the fn takes k & v
04:16	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: you are welcome.
04:17	raek	to just get the indices, consider ##(range (range 0 (count [:a :b :c])))
04:18	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
04:18	raek	&(range 0 (count [:a :b :c]))
04:18	sexpbot	⟹ (0 1 2)
04:19	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: (defn take-idx-when [coll pred] (remove nil? (map-indexed #(when (pred %2) %1) coll)))
04:19	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: that should solve your problem.
04:21	kumarshantanu	raek: G0SUB: yup, this is cool
04:22	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: is it idiomatic to place pred after coll?
04:24	G0SUB	kumarshantanu: no. put the coll after pred. In this case, IMHO pred should come first.
04:24	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: okay
04:42	kumarshantanu	G0SUB: found a shorter version -- (keep-indexed #(if (pos? %2) %1) [-9 0 2 -7 45 3 -8])
04:42	kumarshantanu	,(keep-indexed #(if (pos? %2) %1) [-9 0 2 -7 45 3 -8])
04:42	clojurebot	(2 4 5)
06:20	kumarshantanu	does println work asynchronously is 1.2?
06:20	kumarshantanu	s/is/in/
06:20	sexpbot	<kumarshantanu> does println work asynchronously in 1.2?
06:45	auser	hola
06:45	auser	what does the '*' (star) mean after a function
06:48	kumarshantanu	auser: generally used for helper implementation fns
06:49	auser	not sure I understand... what does it mean though?
06:51	kumarshantanu	auser: assuming 'foo' is the function that is for public use, foo* is the functin that actually carries out the job and 'foo' just delegates the work to foo*
06:51	auser	ah
06:51	kumarshantanu	'foo' calls 'foo*' to the actual work with some pre-configuration
06:51	auser	so it really could be either, but foo* used inside the namespace doesn't have to push off to the delegate
06:51	auser	cool
07:02	auser	thanks kumarshantanu
07:03	auser	I've got one more question... is there a way to "fork" off a process?
07:04	auser	I want to continuously poll for a queue to see if there's an item in it (unless I can "push" from the queue)
07:05	auser	maybe like an agent
07:05	auser	(from: http://faustus.webatu.com/clj-quick-ref.html)
07:06	kumarshantanu	auser: not a process, AFAICT
07:06	auser	(sorry, I come from the erlang world)
07:06	kumarshantanu	auser: but you can use threads, whiich is what jvm supports
07:07	kumarshantanu	look at ConcurrentLinkedQueue
07:07	auser	k
07:08	auser	So you're suggesting I fork off a thread that does the "take"
07:08	kumarshantanu	tehnically you can, but forking off a thread is not so inexpensive as BEAM
07:09	kumarshantanu	so you can use a task executor thread-pool during the runtime of the operation
07:09	auser	yeah... that's one thing I'll miss with erlang in this current project
07:09	auser	oh. okay?
07:09	kumarshantanu	a thread-pool maintains a pool of runnning threads, and returns the thread to the pool (but not killing it)
07:10	auser	oh that would work nicely I think
07:11	kumarshantanu	also, though not mentioned in the clojure docs, you may find hava.util.concurrent package very useful
07:11	kumarshantanu	s/hava/java/
07:11	sexpbot	<kumarshantanu> also, though not mentioned in the clojure docs, you may find java.util.concurrent package very useful
07:12	kumarshantanu	http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/package-summary.html
07:12	auser	that's funny, I was just looking at that
07:12	auser	http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/ThreadPoolExecutor.html
07:13	kumarshantanu	auser: yes, and you will probably find some clojure wrappers written by people to work with the task-executor framework
08:20	fliebel	Is Clojure a JSR 223 script engine? And what about other JVM languages? I came across the term a few times, and I'm wondering if it'd be possible to create a generic REPL for all these languages. (inside an applet?)
08:28	kumarshantanu	fliebel: Did you notice this? http://code.google.com/p/clojure-jsr223/
08:28	fliebel	kumarshantanu: No, I didn't
08:28	kumarshantanu	seems to be bringing 223 to clojure
08:29	AWizzArd	Does swank-clojure work with fresh builds of clojure.jar ?
08:29	fliebel	kumarshantanu: I did notice this: https://github.com/tinkerpop/mutant/wiki
08:31	kumarshantanu	fliebel: I noticed Mutant few days ago too...maybe useful for glue-work
09:44	Nikelandjelo	How can I disable auto-casting (+ Integer/MAX_VALUE 1) to long? I need it to convert into Integer/MIN_VALUE?
09:45	mcav	,(unchecked-add Integer/MAX_VALUE 1)
09:45	clojurebot	-2147483648
09:46	Nikelandjelo	Thanks
09:46	mcav	yw
10:14	Tordmor	Question: How would you generate a random sequence of digits of arbitrary size?
10:17	mcav	,(take 5 (repeatedly #(rand-nth (range 10))))
10:17	clojurebot	(0 8 8 9 5)
10:20	mcav	,(take 5 (repeatedly #(rand-int 10)))
10:20	clojurebot	(6 3 0 5 8)
10:27	Tordmor	mcav: Thanks, that looks great
10:27	mcav	Tordmor: glad to help
10:37	jk__	if i need to build a function that returns true or false, is it sufficient to have the function return non-nil or nil?
10:39	fliebel	jk__: Most of the time, yes.
10:39	jk__	this is for calling tree-seq
10:40	jk__	fliebel: i have functions that return a result or nil. wanted to know if there is any problem using them directly in tree-seq
10:40	jk__	fliebel: when you say "most of the time" that makes me nervous :)
10:40	fliebel	mcav: Why use rand-nth rather than rand-int?
10:41	fliebel	jk__: The only problem is when you chekc explicitly for false?
10:41	mcav	fliebel: I wasn't thinking the first time; that's why I put rand-int right after that
10:42	fliebel	&(false? nil)
10:42	sexpbot	⟹ false
10:42	jk__	i see. so only false is false
10:42	jk__	according to the predicate i mean
10:42	fliebel	but #(when nil true)
10:42	fliebel	&(when nil true)
10:42	sexpbot	⟹ nil
10:43	jk__	,(doc when)
10:43	clojurebot	"([test & body]); Evaluates test. If logical true, evaluates body in an implicit do."
10:43	fliebel	So in the context of tree-seq, you should be fine I guess.
10:43	jk__	fliebel: because if i return a nil, it's not going to be true?
10:44	jk__	&(true nil)
10:44	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
10:44	jk__	&(true? nil)
10:44	sexpbot	⟹ false
10:44	fliebel	jk__: Everything except false and nil are true.
10:44	jk__	fliebel: but for (false?) only false is false
10:45	jk__	i think a part of my brain just exploded but that works for me
10:45	fliebel	(map boolean [1 [] true false nil 0])
10:45	fliebel	&(map boolean [1 [] true false nil 0])
10:45	sexpbot	⟹ (true true true false false true)
10:45	jk__	got it
10:45	jk__	thx!
10:46	fliebel	false? really checks of the argument IS false, not if it would be falsy.
10:47	jk__	it's like nil is just an unknown. it's neither true nor false
10:47	jk__	well no, that's not right either
10:47	jk__	nm
10:47	pdk	,(boolean nil)
10:47	clojurebot	false
10:47	pdk	nil = false
10:47	jk__	.(boolean [])
10:48	jk__	,(boolean [])
10:48	clojurebot	true
10:48	jk__	,(false? nil)
10:48	clojurebot	false
10:49	jk__	nil is neither (true?) nor (false?)
10:49	jk__	,(true? nil)
10:49	clojurebot	false
10:49	jk__	,(= nil false)
10:49	clojurebot	false
10:50	jk__	ok sorry for the spam. i understand how it works. thx fliebel
10:53	raek	'if' checks whether things are truthy or falsy
10:54	raek	false and nil are falsy, everything else is truthy
10:54	raek	'false?' checks whether something is the value false, rather than falsy
10:55	raek	and vice versa for 'true?'
10:56	raek	use (boolean ...) when you really need the value true of false
10:56	raek	*true or false
11:02	jk__	raek: well that's the thing. tree-seq, for example, wants a function that returns true if a node has children, for example. if i do some sort of existence check and it returns a non-boolean thing, or nil, i wanted to just use it
11:02	raek	now for something that will cause your world to fall apart ;)
11:02	raek	,(true? (Boolean. true))
11:02	clojurebot	false
11:02	jk__	raek: wanted to know if i really had to transform the result to a real boolean
11:02	fliebel	raek: How mean!
11:03	raek	("solution": no one should ever use that constructor.)
11:03	fliebel	jk__: You don't. It uses when, so nil will just work fine. ##(source tree-seq)
11:03	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
11:04	raek	jk__: in most clojure code, you usually don't have to do that. for java interop though, you might need to do it.
11:04	jk__	,(true? Boolean/FALSE)
11:04	clojurebot	false
11:05	jk__	,(Boolean. true)
11:05	clojurebot	true
11:05	raek	,(identical? true Boolean/TRUE)
11:05	clojurebot	true
11:05	jk__	,(identical? false Boolean/FALSE)
11:05	clojurebot	true
11:07	jk__	,(true? (Boolean. "true"))
11:07	clojurebot	false
11:07	jk__	ok gonna do real work now
11:07	jk__	thx guys
11:07	raek	:-)
11:07	fliebel	:)
11:15	gfrlog	,(into {} [[1 2] [3 4 ][5 6]])
11:15	clojurebot	{1 2, 3 4, 5 6}
11:41	gfrlog	anybody got any ideas for the easiest way to plot a simple X-Y graph from clojure?
11:52	raek	gfrlog: incanter.
11:52	gfrlog	I had just gotten into that
11:52	gfrlog	has good features
11:52	gfrlog	no telling how much documentation browsing it will take before I can take a bunch of (x,y) pairs and save a basic line graph
11:54	fliebel	gfrlog: I found plot-fn to be useful for these things.
11:54	gfrlog	fliebel: thanks for the tip
11:55	gfrlog	xy-plot also looks promising
11:57	fliebel	gfrlog: Then you'd have to change the direction of your seq I think
11:59	gfrlog	what do you mean?
11:59	gfrlog	it takes an x seq and a y seq
11:59	fliebel	xy-plot takes [x x x x x x] [y y y y y y y] rather than x y pairs
12:01	fliebel	What you could do is a plot-fn over the result of (into {} pairs) using (range (max-key pairs))
12:01	fliebel	uhm, function-plot
12:02	gfrlog	it takes an arbitrary function?
12:03	fliebel	gfrlog: Yea, it takes a function, and invokes it for all xs and uses the result as y.
12:04	fliebel	But xy-plot is probably better. Only you need to convert the input.
12:05	gfrlog	thanks for the help; I think xy-plot will work
12:07	fliebel	hmmm http://liebke.github.com/incanter/charts-api.html#incanter.charts/add-lines
12:28	jk__	$see cemerick
12:28	jk__	$seen cemerick
12:28	sexpbot	cemerick was last seen joining on :#clojure-casual 3 hours and 38 minutes ago.
12:28	cemerick	jk__: what's up?
12:28	cemerick	Raynes: there's a bug for you ^^
12:28	jk__	cemerick: hey, you're one of the main committers on CCW right?
12:29	cemerick	I'm a commiter, yes. Not sure what constitutes "main", but whatever.
12:30	jk__	heh... i just had a question about whether "reformat" in the editor is in the plans. like if your indentation is broken in java, i hit ctl-shift-f to reformat the whole file. that doesn't work in ccw. note that i'm not whining here, i love ccw
12:31	jk__	that's really the only thing i miss
12:31	cemerick	jk__: I think Laurent has that in his working copy right now. Line-by-line reindentation is there -- just hit tab at the beginning of a line.
12:32	jk__	cemerick: aha! i didn't know that about tab
12:32	ordnungswidrig	hi
12:33	jk__	cemerick: that helps. i find that i frequently add a let or something and that skews the whole rest of a function. i was doing <end><enter><select to next line><del>
12:33	jk__	cemerick: <tab> is certainly much quicker :D
12:33	ordnungswidrig	what's the advantage of using letfn over let?
12:33	cemerick	jk__: yeah -- it's sort of a hack at the moment, IIRC.
12:34	cemerick	I'm afraid the editor stuff itself is not my area of specialty in the codebase.
12:34	jk__	cemerick: btw, this plugin allowed me to avoid adding another monstrous learning curve (emacs) to the already big one with clojure. good work! i always used vi in the past
12:34	cemerick	All that stuff needs to get bound to the usual commands (e.g. Cmd-I, Cmd-Shift-F, etc)
12:35	cemerick	jk__: are you using the 0.0.59 release, or the RC?
12:35	cemerick	I'm really a bit-player -- thank lpetit when you see him. :-)
12:36	jk__	0.0.64-STABLE01
12:36	cemerick	er, right, that :-)
12:36	jk__	:) i just looked
12:36	cemerick	jk__: there's an 0.2.0-RC1 available now, that has a much-improved REPL
12:37	jk__	cemerick: thanks for the tip. i'll upgrade my plugin then. this one is working well for me
12:37	cemerick	jk__: FYI: http://groups.google.com/group/clojuredev-users/browse_frm/thread/339b0347f6d15b17
12:37	jk__	ahh, nice. i didn't know about that group
12:37	cemerick	it's an RC, so eclipse won't present it as an upgrade. You'd have to uninstall and reinstall. Perhaps only for the brave :-)
12:38	jk__	cemerick: no problem. i've done that procedure hundreds of times on other plugins
12:38	cemerick	we'll probably have 1 or 2 more RCs, then release it (which will then offer it up as an upgrade)
12:38	jk__	well... maybe dozens :)
12:38	cemerick	That's definitely the place to post questions, issues, etc.
12:39	cemerick	Laurent and I monitor it pretty regularly.
12:39	jk__	cemerick: when i hear people talking about emacs/swank or vi/nailgun stuff, i never really hear anything that seems to be lacking from CCW. it's really a nice plugin
12:40	cemerick	It's getting there :-)
12:40	fliebel	ordnungswidrig: letfn saves you some typing, but afaik the only real advantage is that you get to have mutually recursive functions.
12:41	cemerick	It has a ways to go in some areas, but what's there is very solid. And, eclipse is a great foundation.
12:41	jk__	cemerick: i use the maven plugin too and wrote an archetype for generating a clojure app with compojure and a couple other goodies added. your site gave me the added incentive to go full-bore with the maven and clojure plugins in eclipse
12:42	cemerick	:-)
12:42	cemerick	jk__: I suspect that Mark (@talios, maintainer of clojure-maven-plugin) might be interested in archetypes.
12:43	cemerick	One for "plain" projects and one for compojure webapps would make a lot of sense.
12:44	jk__	cemerick: i agree. my simple archetype just includes the dependencies, config to do src-only jar and a sample clojure file. i need to do another one to create an AOT compile war file
12:46	jk__	cemerick: i can give it to talios. i'll have to take out the repository entry for our internal artifactory :) everything goes through that internally
12:46	cemerick	right
12:46	cemerick	I keep throwing example projects out there, but never get around to an archetype
12:47	jk__	yes, i started by cloning my sample project and renaming it, including in the .project file all the time, but it was getting too tedious. i finally broke down and whipped out the archetype so i could quickly start new small test projects
12:48	raek	ordnungswidrig: with letfn, the function can refer to itself. this can be done with let too. (letfn [(foo [...] ...)] ...) ~ (let [foo (fn foo [...] ...)] ...)
12:48	cemerick	I usually just copy a simple pom around a tweak :-)
12:49	jk__	cemerick: yes i should have done that. but that would work well enough that i'd be too lazy to do the archetype :D
12:49	raek	(however, mutually recursive functions using let can only be done with the letfn variant)
12:50	ordnungswidrig	raek: so it's just saving some typing
12:50	raek	pretty much
12:50	ordnungswidrig	ok
12:50	raek	except for the self-referring stuff
12:51	raek	,(let [foo (fn [] foo)] (foo))
12:51	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: foo in this context
12:51	raek	,(letfn [(foo [] foo)] (foo))
12:51	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval159$foo__160 sandbox$eval159$foo__160@32a325>
12:51	raek	stupid example, but you get the idea... :-)
12:53	raek	the only time I have used letfn is when I needed a helper function to implement a lazy sequence
13:00	Lajla	raek,
13:00	Lajla	I am the second best programmer in the world.
13:00	Lajla	Ever told you that.
13:00	Lajla	cemerick, how about my named recur
13:00	Lajla	I want it.
13:00	Lajla	If you can give this to me.
13:01	Lajla	Then I will reward you handsomely.
13:01	bmh	What's a reasonable way to compare two doubles with a desired precision?
13:07	ordnungswidrig	raek: ok, thanks for explaining
13:17	npoektop	Adamant: hi! is there a way to make slime-autodoc work with clojure?
13:17	Adamant	don't know offhand
13:45	kumarshantanu	Question: how can I convert a string to a regex?
13:45	kumarshantanu	"hello" --> #"hello"
13:46	raek	,(re-pattern "[0-9]+")
13:46	clojurebot	#"[0-9]+"
13:46	kumarshantanu	raek: thanks!
14:20	bobo_	raek: yeh that one is awesome
14:22	jkkramer	hey thanks :) i guess i should probably write the promised follow-up
14:26	raek	jkkramer: I'm looking throught the docstrings of loom and I came across the word "read-only". what does it mean in this case?
14:26	raek	all the graphs are immutable, right?
14:27	raek	does it mean that you cannot create modified copies of them?
14:27	jkkramer	raek: meaning the add/remove fns won't work. it's for when graphs are created on the fly (e.g. from some function)
14:28	jkkramer	raek: i.e., there's no stored data to "modify" -- just functions which generate neighbors and such on-demand
14:28	jkkramer	i should mention that loom's implementation may still change a lot. in particular, i plan on having it use deftype instead of defrecord
14:29	jkkramer	haven't had time to work on it recently
14:29	raek	if I just use the public function, that wouldn't affect me, right?
14:30	jkkramer	right, ideally the API wouldn't change much
14:31	jkkramer	i might rethink fly graphs...maybe just creating something like graph-seq, analogous to tree-seq
14:31	raek	I have only used the lib for about 10 minutes, but I really like what I have seen so far :)
14:31	jkkramer	cool, thanks. let me know if you have any comments/suggestions
14:32	raek	only one small one so far:
14:32	raek	you might want to consider to put the ubigraph integration in a separate artifact/jar
14:33	jkkramer	yeah, that might make sense
14:33	raek	I assume that the core of loom only uses a few deps
14:34	jkkramer	just clojure.core, yup
14:34	raek	and the most of the deps seemed to be used only by the ubigraph parts
14:34	raek	neat
14:34	raek	is there any autodoc up for loom?
14:35	jkkramer	not yet
14:36	raek	btw, it's truly wonderful to be able to just send a graph to GraphViz...
14:37	jkkramer	turned out to be quite easy, compared to integrating a java lib for visualization, or writing my own
14:55	fuchsd	Howdy! What's the best/most idiomatic way to re-bind command-line-args in a test with Lazytest?
14:56	fuchsd	I tried this: https://gist.github.com/738277
14:56	fuchsd	and it didn't seem to work.
14:56	fuchsd	However, if I move that bindings form to within the it form,
14:57	fuchsd	the test passes and fails as it should, but the reporting isn't the best (it reports the whole bindings expression instead of just the tests)
14:57	fuchsd	Is there a better way to do this?
14:59	cemerick	Is anyone aware of a way to compile Java apps down to Javascript to be run within the browser?
14:59	cemerick	chouser, perhaps?
15:00	lpetit	GWT
15:00	lpetit	ahem
15:01	bobo_	souns alot like GWT yes
15:02	cemerick	yeah
15:02	cemerick	What I just heard about was something Oracle-sponsored, though.
15:03	cemerick	I can't find anything about oracle being involved in such a project though…
15:17	bobo_	can someone tell me why i should name a argument for username "s" instead of "user-name"? or "n" instead of "size" if it is the size of something?
15:17	bobo_	or am i missunderstanding the coding standards?
15:22	ossareh	bobo_: I guess since a username is a string and size is a number. IMHO I prefer the longer variants but have found myself using the shorter ones as I spend more time hacking clojure.
15:24	bobo_	i have tried to like the short once for a long while now. dont get it at all
15:25	ossareh	The regular short ones I use are "n" for number and "x" for some anonymous data, (map (fn [x] (do-something-with-x x)) coll)
15:27	bobo_	and that seems to be the correct way to do it according to the standards, but would be nice to know why it is the standard.
15:34	fuchsd	('let' or 'given' don't work in this case either)
15:51	cemerick	lpetit, bobo_: http://cemerick.com/2010/12/12/oracle-vp-we-have-a-strategy-to-run-java-inside-a-javascript-environment/
15:59	fliebel	Why the f*ck does the RSS icon on twitter.com give my my favorites?
16:00	fliebel	oops, that was meant for my twitter feed
16:05	bobo_	cemerick: that sounds realy weird, i dont get why they would develop such a thing
16:05	raek	ok, now I got loom hooked up with ring and moustache. now I can make graphs of clojure data available from the web!
16:07	cemerick	bobo_: Oracle can't keep ceding client-side stuff to everyone else.
16:07	cemerick	Especially if they're working on something like orto, that would be huge
16:08	bobo_	orto?
16:09	cemerick	bobo_: there's a link about it in my post
16:09	bobo_	ah! im blind =)
16:09	bobo_	ah yes that would be huge
16:12	bobo_	if people are crazy enough to do a flash runtime in javascript oracle could very well be building a java runtime in it.
17:00	ordnungswidrig	uh, so they want to keep java but not then jvm?
17:00	brehaut	marketting?
17:01	brehaut	they were talking in terms of desktop applications
17:01	ordnungswidrig	Uh, you mean the desktop machines that will have 12 cores in 4 years by default?
17:02	ordnungswidrig	Sounds like java compiled to javascript would be a perfect fit g
17:02	brehaut	my guess is that the JVM is unattractive to users as a platform for desktop apps but web apps are great. java applets are dead. whats next? try to make java run in the one platform everyone has
17:03	brehaut	i was only imply that it did seem like they were discarding the JVM wholesale
17:03	npoektop	Does lazytest run tests in a separate thread?
17:03	brehaut	only that they implied it wasnt part of desktop plan
17:05	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: you mean, desktop apps in the browser
17:05	ordnungswidrig	?
17:06	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: im guessing and reading through the lines but yes
17:07	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: how scary, in the browser we already have a nice function language named ecmascript. who, really, will need java, here ?
17:07	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: java developers? GWT developers?
17:09	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: Shouldn't a developer be able to program in multiple languages?
17:10	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: i dont think its any more sane than you do, im just trying to suggest why they might think its a good idea
17:10	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: However, I see that there is no strongly language in the browser
17:10	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: …strongly typed...
17:11	ordnungswidrig	(There is a haskell to js compiler, IIRC)
17:11	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: im very much a polyglot myself, but im also aware of how much of a minority view that is with a lot of developers
17:11	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: then, they should do a vba to js compiler :-)
17:11	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: good god no
17:11	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: vba needs to be shot
17:12	brehaut	im still recovering from the trauma of programming vaste quanitities of VBA professionally
17:12	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: by the number of developers then yes!
17:16	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: my last gig i was working on legacy systems where basicly everything was VBA. most of our servers had several million lines of it in production
17:17	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: fascinating that such systems work
17:17	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: often without a glimpse of qa
17:17	brehaut	ordnungswidrig: aint that the truth :P
17:18	brehaut	no more of that for me
17:18	ordnungswidrig	brehaut: beside end-to-end testing done by a horde of tester running test scripts by hand an entering results into excel sheets?
17:18	brehaut	word docs rather than excel sheets for us but yeah ;)
17:18	arrummzen	How do I import clojure functions from one namespace to another so I don't have to append the other namespace/ to every function call?
17:19	brehaut	arrummzen: first, aliasing the namespace is a prefered choice
17:19	brehaut	arrummzen: otherwise 'use'
17:19	arrummzen	What do you mean by aliasing the namespace?
17:19	brehaut	(require '[clojure.xml :as 'xml])
17:19	brehaut	oh sorry
17:19	brehaut	(require '[clojure.xml :as xml])
17:20	brehaut	then you can do (xml/emit nodes)
17:20	brehaut	frinstance
17:20	brehaut	arrummzen: this is the recommended approach
17:20	arrummzen	hmm... require seems to only work if I have the functions I need compiled to disk?
17:20	brehaut	arrummzen: it should work for any clj file you have. its the typical way of loading code
17:20	arrummzen	Use has the same problem...
17:21	brehaut	arrummzen: you have a deeper problem i think?
17:22	brehaut	arrummzen: do you have your project anywhere public?
17:23	brehaut	arrummzen: or are you dabbling in a repl?
17:23	ordnungswidrig	arrummzen: is the source file with the used function on the classpath?
17:23	arrummzen	Never mind, it seems that it can load a .clj file as well.
17:23	brehaut	yes
17:24	arrummzen	Sorry, I'm new to this REPL stuff. I'm used to the C/Makefile style of working.
17:24	brehaut	arrummzen: no worries
17:26	brehaut	arrummzen: if you must import a function into your namespace rather than requiring the namespace, it is suggested that you restrict what you import to a specific set of symbols.
17:27	brehaut	arrummzen: eg (use '[clojure.contrib.zip-filter.xml :only [xml-> xml1-> text])
17:28	brehaut	arrummzen: are you using a project management / 'build' tool?
17:29	arrummzen	No....
17:30	brehaut	arrummzen: may i suggest you look into github.com/technomancy/leiningen for managing your projects
17:30	arrummzen	I'm using eclipse which manages the Java part of the build. But counterclockwise doesn't seem to support a unified build system.
17:30	brehaut	arrummzen: and its sibling project github.com/liebke/cljr
17:31	brehaut	arrummzen: sure. I've used lein for the buildy bits of a project with eclipse + ccw
17:33	arrummzen	Sounds good. I've only 2 files at this point but as the project grows I'll have to start thinking about a build system.
17:34	brehaut	arrummzen: importantly lein will maintain the dependancies for you, both fetching them and sticking them on the projects classpath. ahead of time compilation is the exception, not the rule, in clojure, so 'build' ussually just means producing an uberjar with your clj + all dependant jars.
17:37	arrummzen	brehaut: what do you mean by fetch? Does it automatically download updates?
17:37	brehaut	arrummzen: it will download any dependancies you specifiy with the version you specify
17:38	brehaut	and handle dependancy resolution for those too. It is built on the maven dependancy system
17:38	arrummzen	sounds interesting =)
17:40	gfrlog	isn't there a histogrammy function in clojure that does [1,3,3,4,5,4,6] => {1 1, 3 2, 4 2, 5 1, 6 1} ?
17:41	gfrlog	clojure.core/frequencies
17:44	hiredman	(apply merge-with + (map (fn [x] {x 1}) [1,3,3,4,5,4,6]))
17:44	hiredman	,(apply merge-with + (map (fn [x] {x 1}) [1,3,3,4,5,4,6]))
17:44	clojurebot	{6 1, 5 1, 4 2, 3 2, 1 1}
17:45	brehaut	hiredman: cunning :) also he answered his own question with clojure.core/frequencies i think
17:46	gfrlog	yeah
17:46	gfrlog	that's cute though
17:47	hiredman	~def frequencies
17:47	hiredman	clojurebot: you suck
17:47	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
18:11	rata_	hi
18:11	brehaut	rata_ [temporally appropriate greeting]
18:12	rata_	:)
18:13	raek_	rata_: good morning (Universal Greeting Time)
18:17	Licenser	night everyone!
18:27	jk__	arrummzen: it's pretty easy to build clojure project with the maven clojure plugin inside eclipse. if you're already using the maven plugin that is
18:59	gfrlog	does incanter have a feature for drawing a basic graph on a log scale?
18:59	gfrlog	(i.e., y-axis is log scale)
19:42	jcromartie	I made a map function that prints progress over large lazy seqs https://gist.github.com/738505
19:43	jcromartie	oops, updated to include the missing dot-points :)
19:59	tomoj	jcromartie: try not to count the seq
19:59	tomoj	er, coll
19:59	jcromartie	hm, yeah I guess that might spoil things
20:00	jcromartie	then it's kind of hard to do
20:00	jcromartie	oh well
20:00	tomoj	I don't see why you need the progress atom
20:00	tomoj	can't you just map-indexed?
20:00	jcromartie	well you still need to know where in the collection you are at
20:00	tomoj	oh, of course
20:00	tomoj	:)
20:01	tomoj	so it only makes sense anyway for colls you can fit in memory
20:01	jcromartie	it's more for the evaluation of (f x), not the coll of x's
20:01	jcromartie	yeah
20:02	tomoj	doprogress?
20:02	tomoj	I dunno, I guess using map like that is ok
20:02	tomoj	as long as people know the thing they get back will behave weirdly
20:03	tomoj	but if they were going to use map to do it, they'd know that anyway
20:16	jcromartie	yeah
20:16	jcromartie	I have a better idea
20:16	jcromartie	how about with-progress
20:16	jcromartie	which binds progress and lets you use fns like (progress "Doing stuff") (progress 0.5) to show meters
20:22	laurus	Does anyone know a way in Clojure to do something similar to http://briancarper.net/blog/527/printing-a-nicely-formatted-plaintext-table-of-data-in-clojure , but with commands that would allow the selection of data based on certain criteria, say, for that example, age < 29 ?
20:23	tomoj	filter the data before passing it to the table function?
20:23	tomoj	maybe I'm not following you
20:23	laurus	tomoj, how?
20:24	tomoj	(table (filter #(< (:age %) 29) data) [:age :name]) ?
20:24	laurus	Ah, I see.
20:24	tomoj	depends on the data I guess
20:30	Darmani	user> (- 0 -9223372036854775808)
20:30	Darmani	-9223372036854775808
20:30	Darmani	sigh
20:31	Darmani	How should I report this?
21:07	hippiehunter	is there a way to un-zip a collection of maps with x elements into x collections?
21:07	gfrlog	example of input and output?
21:08	brehaut	have you tried (apply map col) ?
21:08	brehaut	sorry
21:09	hippiehunter	[{:item1 "hello" :item2 "again"}] into ["hello"] and ["again"] with some way to name the resulting collections
21:10	brehaut	hippiehunter: you might need to be a bit more explicit
21:11	brehaut	hippiehunter: do you want say [{:i1 1 :i2 4} {:i1 3 :i2 5}]
21:11	hippiehunter	yes
21:11	brehaut	to become say {:i1 [1 3] :i2 [4 5]}
21:11	hippiehunter	that would certainly do the trick since i could destructure it
21:12	brehaut	i think merge-with would be a good start
21:13	brehaut	(apply merge-with + col) for example would sum those for you
21:14	brehaut	so replace + with a fun that conjs acc [i] or returns [item]
21:15	gfrlog	I think he'd still have potential problems with that
21:15	brehaut	id noodle about in a repl to work it out for you, but i just sliced mu finger open
21:15	hippiehunter	im unsure of how to pass the arguments into merge-with with considering they would be in vector form
21:15	gfrlog	for keys present in the first map and none of the ethors
21:15	brehaut	hippiehunter: apply
21:15	gfrlog	hippiehunter: I'll try to scratch something up real quick, one sec
21:15	hippiehunter	the maps are homogeneous
21:16	gfrlog	oh
21:16	gfrlog	they all have the same keys?
21:16	hippiehunter	yes
21:16	gfrlog	much easier
21:16	gfrlog	lessee...
21:18	gfrlog	(into {} (map (comp vector (apply comp coll)) (keys coll)))
21:18	gfrlog	no way that'll work on the first try
21:19	gfrlog	yeah, the (keys coll) at the end should be (keys (first coll))
21:21	gfrlog	I could clean it up even better if I knew of a good way to take a set of keys and a fn and spit out a map
21:21	gfrlog	using (into {} and-some-pairs) is the only way I know how
21:24	hippiehunter	im a little hazy on (apply comp coll)
21:25	hippiehunter	coll doesnt contain functions, doest comp try to run things?
21:25	gfrlog	coll contains maps, right?
21:25	hippiehunter	yeah
21:25	gfrlog	maps are functions
21:25	gfrlog	in this case we want to take each key, and run it through each one of those maps/functions and get a vector of the results
21:26	gfrlog	which should be what (apply comp coll) does
21:26	gfrlog	there's a bug in there still that I'm trying to work out
21:27	gfrlog	ah hah
21:27	gfrlog	comp is not what I want :)
21:27	gfrlog	it's...the other thing
21:27	gfrlog	lemme find the cheatsheet...
21:28	gfrlog	juxt I bet
21:29	gfrlog	got it:
21:29	gfrlog	(into {} (map (juxt identity (apply juxt coll)) (keys (first coll))))
21:30	gfrlog	so (apply juxt coll) is a function that takes a key and returns a vector of values
21:30	gfrlog	the (juxt identity ...) part will return a pair, where the first element is the key and the second element is the vector of values
21:30	gfrlog	so map creates a list of pairs, and into shoves them all in a map
21:32	hippiehunter	,(let [coll [{:i1 1 :i2} {:i1 3 :i2 4}]] (into {} (map (juxt identity (apply juxt coll)) (keys first coll))))
21:32	clojurebot	3
21:33	gfrlog	your first map looks incomplete
21:33	hippiehunter	ahh thanks
21:33	hippiehunter	(let [coll [{:i1 1 :i2 2} {:i1 3 :i2 4}]] (into {} (map (juxt identity (apply juxt coll)) (keys first coll))))
21:33	hippiehunter	oops
21:33	gfrlog	I'm surprised that doesn't throw an error
21:33	hippiehunter	,(let [coll [{:i1 1 :i2 2} {:i1 3 :i2 4}]] (into {} (map (juxt identity (apply juxt coll)) (keys first coll))))
21:33	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core$keys
21:34	gfrlog	you want (keys (first coll))
21:34	hippiehunter	,(let [coll [{:i1 1 :i2 2} {:i1 3 :i2 4}]] (into {} (map (juxt identity (apply juxt coll)) (keys (first coll)))))
21:34	clojurebot	{:i1 [1 3], :i2 [2 4]}
21:34	gfrlog	woohoo
21:34	hippiehunter	awsome
22:41	Derander	I wonder if it'd be possible to implement a swank server for ruby
23:03	hippiehunter	when I do a full macro expand, it tends to produce a single line of mega doom that I would like to have nicely formatted. Is there such a feature or must I reflow by hand?
23:04	brehaut	hippiehunter clojure.contrib.pprint might contain what you want?
23:04	brehaut	hippiehunter: http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/pprint-api.html
23:12	hippiehunter	thanks that got me in the right direction
23:18	Synt_x	Quiet in here
23:32	technomancy	clojurebot: wake up, sluggard.
23:32	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
23:33	technomancy	clojurebot: well then Ξυπνήστε, οκνηρός
23:33	clojurebot	Huh?
23:33	brehaut	(inc technomancy)
23:33	sexpbot	⟹ 1
23:33	technomancy	ಠ_ಠ
23:34	Raynes	(inc brehaut)
23:34	sexpbot	⟹ 2
23:35	brehaut	wow im quickly approaching my HN karma score
23:42	Lajla	,(+ 1 1)
23:42	clojurebot	Lajla: Excuse me?
23:42	Lajla	I'm still ignored. =(
23:42	ossareh	&(+ 1 1)
23:42	sexpbot	⟹ 2
23:42	ossareh	speak to bots that listen
23:43	ossareh	is clojurebot's code in github?
23:44	technomancy	clojurebot: source?
23:44	clojurebot	source is http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
23:44	ossareh	^_^
23:45	Lajla	&(set! * +)
23:45	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: * with set
23:54	Raynes	ossareh: sexpbot isn't a clojurebot.
23:54	ossareh	Raynes: what is the core difference?
23:55	Raynes	ossareh: They are entirely different bots designed in entirely different ways with totally different goals.
23:55	Raynes	The core difference is 'everything'. :p
23:55	ossareh	hah.
23:55	Raynes	I've never looked at the clojurebot source code outside of it's sandbox code.
23:56	Raynes	sexpbot: whatis source
23:56	sexpbot	source does not exist in my database.
23:56	Raynes	sexpbot: whatis sexpbot
23:56	sexpbot	sexpbot = the bestest sexpbot ever
23:56	Raynes	Heh, I nixed my own link.
23:56	Raynes	$learn sexpbot http://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot
23:56	sexpbot	My memory is more powerful than M-x butterfly. I wont forget it.
23:58	ossareh	Raynes: btw - saw your tweet about your mum burning things. I know how that roles, best thing that ever happened to me because I was forced to cook. Such a great skill to have!
23:59	Raynes	I have a high respect and admiration for proper chefs. If programming wasn't my thing, cooking would be.
23:59	Raynes	Too bad I suck at cooking.