2010-12-08
| 00:07 | amalloy | scottj: nice, i didn't know about emacs-client. not sure what i'll use it for, but (server-start) is in my ~/.emacs now! |
| 00:08 | amalloy | did you figure out your butlast thing? |
| 00:29 | jackdempsey | hey all, going to writeup a small app in clojure as part of the continual learning process. key piece will be making some http calls, parsing the resulting dom, and looking at some elements |
| 00:29 | jackdempsey | i still don't know much of what's in contrib, so if anyone has a pointer as a lib or two i should look at, would appreciate it |
| 00:30 | jackdempsey | seems like clojure-http-client is a good start |
| 00:30 | jackdempsey | ah, nm, ha |
| 00:53 | scottj | amalloy: nope, I'm went ahead and used butlast cause this is working on code and I don't think I can write code faster than butlast can process it |
| 02:05 | bartj | the only way I can print which test functions are being executed (with clojure.test) is with the "testing" macro |
| 02:05 | bartj | can someone please confirm? |
| 05:24 | AWizzArd | Do we have an Ant expert available? :) |
| 05:24 | AWizzArd | (the build tool) |
| 05:55 | esj | I LIVE ! |
| 06:32 | bartj | does clojure invoke threads while doing a reduce? for eg: this operation (time (reduce + (range 100000000))) |
| 06:32 | bartj | took only about 31 seconds, and I am extremely keen to know how it is *so* fast |
| 06:34 | bobo_ | bartj: no i think preduce exissts though |
| 06:34 | kjeldahl | &(doc preduce) |
| 06:34 | sexpbot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: preduce in this context |
| 06:34 | bobo_ | guess not |
| 06:34 | clojurebot | I guess that is my answer. |
| 06:35 | bartj | gah, I am able to see preduce in the cheatsheet but not in the documentation as well) |
| 06:35 | kjeldahl | Really? I see no preduce on http://clojure.org/cheatsheet |
| 06:36 | kjeldahl | Also, only guessing, but considering what reduce does, it's kind of hard to run in parallel. Map on the other hand... |
| 06:36 | bobo_ | yeh |
| 06:36 | bartj | $Revision: 1.02, $Date: July 10, 2009 |
| 06:37 | bobo_ | there is a pvreduce in the fork join stuff though |
| 06:40 | bartj | kjeldahl, you mean to say that preduce will do it much faster ;) |
| 06:41 | kjeldahl | bartj: No, I was thinking of the sequential nature of the reduce operation. But lots of people have thought about this more than I. |
| 06:41 | kjeldahl | Apologies if I didn't get the joke, and my reply seemed to serious. :-) |
| 06:41 | kjeldahl | too serious I meant |
| 06:49 | kzar | So I was messing around with swing and I was wondering if there's something like partial I could use here, I was trying to do something like (partial . g drawOval) so I could easily map some numbers into drawOval. I think it's not working because the . is a macro? Best I could get was #(.drawOval g %1 %2 %3 %4) but that forces me to use that number of arguments and is a bit verbose |
| 06:50 | Chousuke | there's memfn |
| 06:55 | cemerick | I don't think there's any use case that is better served with memfn than with #()… |
| 06:55 | bsteuber | cemerick: I think kzar just gave one, no? |
| 06:56 | bsteuber | how do you solve if with #() ? |
| 06:56 | cemerick | bsteuber: memfn doesn't give you anything like partial application |
| 06:57 | cemerick | ,((memfn substring a b) "foot" 1 3) |
| 06:57 | clojurebot | "oo" |
| 06:58 | cemerick | those "args" you provide to memfn define the arity of the returned fn. |
| 06:59 | bsteuber | cemerick: ah ok, had a wrong idea of memfn in my head, then |
| 06:59 | jave | I tend to wind up with stuff like: (eval `(sh ~@(rtmpdump-cmd isbn chapter))). It doesnt feel quite right |
| 06:59 | clojurebot | I want my bikeshed blue! |
| 07:00 | jave | whats the proper way to do it? |
| 07:01 | bsteuber | jave: why not (apply sh (rtmpdump-cmd …)) ? |
| 07:01 | cemerick | jave: (apply sh (rtmpdump …)) |
| 07:01 | jave | hmm. sometimes one needs to ask humiliating questions. It occured to me the moment I pressed enter |
| 07:04 | bsteuber | :) |
| 07:04 | bsteuber | happens to me all the time here oO |
| 07:07 | kzar | heh same here |
| 07:07 | djpowell | hmm, just got bitten by using for inside a dynamic binding. dynamic bindings and (in this case, unwanted) lazyness are an unpleasant mix |
| 07:16 | cemerick | djpowell: That is largely fixed in 1.3.0 -- until then, http://cemerick.com/2009/11/03/be-mindful-of-clojures-binding/ |
| 07:36 | bobo_ | compare-value-and-set maybe? |
| 07:42 | cemerick | raek: identity-based CAS is a primitive operation provided by AtomicReference. |
| 07:43 | cemerick | That is, you can't paper over it with a value-based comparison and get the same concurrency semantics. |
| 07:50 | esj | Heroku sold for 212 Million ! gawp |
| 08:04 | djpowell | cemerick: I'm not sure that 1.3.0 fixes the dynamic/lazy thing |
| 08:05 | djpowell | (def *x* 1) (binding [*x* 2] (for [y (range 1 3)] *x*)) - still returns (1 1) rather than (2 2) |
| 08:06 | djpowell | putting doall around the for fixes it |
| 08:07 | raek | cemerick: I am making a state machine that has its state in an atom. not all transitions are allowed at all times, so I want to have functions that try to do transitions and return booleans representing whether they suceeded |
| 08:09 | cemerick | djpowell: you may be right -- I know that bindings are passed along in agent sends, futures, etc, but the lazy-seq gotcha may remain. |
| 08:11 | cemerick | raek: how is identity-based CAS related to that? |
| 08:11 | djpowell | cemerick: the fix to futures etc is nice, but yeah, I think lazy-seq is a big gotcha at the moment |
| 08:30 | jweiss | is there a functional way to get the first item in a list that matches a predicate? I could do (first (filter pred list)) but i'm not sure if the laziness works there to prevent more predicate calls than necessary? |
| 08:30 | jweiss | i'm trying to think of a way to test that at the repl |
| 08:31 | djpowell | write a fn that calls (println "X") before calling your pred |
| 08:31 | cemerick | jweiss: you've got it right |
| 08:31 | jweiss | djpowell: ah that'll do it. cemerick thanks |
| 08:31 | cemerick | jweiss: actually, some is more concise |
| 08:32 | jweiss | cemerick: but some will just give me true or false, not the first matching item |
| 08:32 | jweiss | oh |
| 08:32 | jweiss | i guess i am wrong |
| 08:32 | cemerick | jweiss: no; if you make your predicate return the value from the seq, then it's exactly what you want |
| 08:32 | jweiss | cemerick: ok thanks |
| 08:32 | djpowell | oh beware btw - chunked seqs mean that for the built in data-structures, the predicate may get called for the first chunk |
| 08:33 | jweiss | djpowell: ok, i can live with that, this is actually a tiny dataset, but i wanted to know for future reference |
| 08:38 | chouser | right, so be careful with that -- some things produce chunked seqs while others don't |
| 08:40 | djpowell | this dynamics + lazyness thing is difficult to fix yourself. something like a bound-seq wrapper is ok - but what if seqs are nested inside the outer seq |
| 08:40 | chouser | & (let [i (atom 0)] {:filter (first (filter #(do (swap! i inc) (odd? %)) '(1 2 3 4 5))) :i i}) |
| 08:40 | sexpbot | ⟹ {:filter 1, :i #<Atom@3f29e0: 1>} |
| 08:40 | chouser | & (let [i (atom 0)] {:filter (first (filter #(do (swap! i inc) (odd? %)) (range 5))) :i i}) |
| 08:40 | sexpbot | ⟹ {:filter 1, :i #<Atom@157385e: 5>} |
| 08:41 | chouser | ^^ jweiss |
| 08:43 | jweiss | chouser: was just processing what that code does, i think i got it :) thanks |
| 08:45 | jweiss | & (let [i (atom 0)] {:filter (first (filter #(do (swap! i inc) (odd? %)) (range 25))) :i i}) |
| 08:45 | sexpbot | ⟹ {:filter 1, :i #<Atom@153dc23: 25>} |
| 08:45 | jweiss | & (let [i (atom 0)] {:filter (first (filter #(do (swap! i inc) (odd? %)) (range 100))) :i i}) |
| 08:45 | sexpbot | ⟹ {:filter 1, :i #<Atom@36afc2: 32>} |
| 08:45 | jweiss | so i guess chunk size is 32 |
| 08:46 | djpowell | Yeah - which matches the internal arrays, clojure uses to implement hash-maps and vectors, as well as just being a reasonablish size |
| 08:50 | chouser | hash maps don't generate chunked seqs currently |
| 08:50 | chouser | & (let [i (atom 0)] {:filter (first (filter #(do (swap! i inc) %) (apply hash-map (range 100)))) :i i}) |
| 08:50 | sexpbot | ⟹ {:filter [0 1], :i #<Atom@1e5c05: 1>} |
| 08:51 | chouser | & (class (seq (hash-map :a 1 :b 2))) |
| 08:51 | sexpbot | ⟹ clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap$NodeSeq |
| 08:51 | chouser | & (class (seq (vector :a 1 :b 2))) |
| 08:51 | sexpbot | ⟹ clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq |
| 08:55 | jweiss | is there a way to make re-find do multiline matching |
| 08:59 | jweiss | i think i found it |
| 08:59 | jweiss | & (re-find #".*findme.*" "blah blerg blah\nfindme blork\n foo bar") |
| 08:59 | sexpbot | ⟹ "findme blork" |
| 09:00 | jweiss | & (re-find #"(?s).*findme.*" "blah blerg blah\nfindme blork\n foo bar") |
| 09:00 | sexpbot | ⟹ "blah blerg blah\nfindme blork\n foo bar" |
| 09:19 | jweiss | chouser: something doesn't seem right here |
| 09:19 | jweiss | & (doc clojure.contrib.error-kit/deferror) |
| 09:19 | sexpbot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: clojure.contrib.error-kit/deferror in this context |
| 09:20 | jweiss | clojure.contrib.error-kit/deferror |
| 09:20 | jweiss | ([name [parent-error?] doc-string? [args*] & body] [name [parent-error?] doc-string? args-destruct-map & body]) |
| 09:20 | jweiss | Macro |
| 09:20 | jweiss | Define a new error type |
| 09:20 | jweiss | nil |
| 09:20 | tonyl | (require 'clojure.contrib.error-kit) |
| 09:20 | tonyl | ,(require 'clojure.contrib.error-kit) |
| 09:20 | clojurebot | nil |
| 09:20 | jweiss | according to that the doc-string comes between the parent error and the args |
| 09:20 | jweiss | but the way it actually seems to work is that the doc-string needs to come after the parent error and args |
| 09:21 | jweiss | ,(doc clojure.contrib.error-kit/deferror) |
| 09:21 | clojurebot | "([name [parent-error?] doc-string? [args*] & body] [name [parent-error?] doc-string? args-destruct-map & body]); Define a new error type" |
| 09:22 | jweiss | ,(clojure.contrib.error-kit/deferror blah [] "my docstring" [s] {:msg "boo!" }) |
| 09:22 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 09:22 | jweiss | doh |
| 09:23 | jweiss | actually i guess it works both ways |
| 09:35 | jcromartie | so maybe someone can advise me on the "clojurely" way to design this |
| 09:35 | jcromartie | but in developing a data masking tool, I know that I need "rules" which can be previewed and applied to a database |
| 09:36 | jcromartie | and can be generated (for instance by functions that suggest transformations for a certain table) |
| 09:36 | jcromartie | so I've got multimethods for apply-rule commit -rule! and preview-rule |
| 09:37 | jcromartie | apply-rule being the non-destructive version |
| 09:40 | cky | ,'DENIED |
| 09:40 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 09:40 | cky | :-D |
| 09:50 | neotyk | ,(source clojure.walk/postwalk) |
| 09:50 | clojurebot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context |
| 09:51 | neotyk | can someone enlighten me what (partial postwalk f) in postwalk defn does? |
| 09:52 | garytr25 | &(source clojure.walk/postwalk) |
| 09:52 | sexpbot | ⟹ Source not found nil |
| 09:52 | neotyk | ,(clojure.repl/source clojure.walk/postwalk) |
| 09:53 | clojurebot | Source not found |
| 09:54 | neotyk | postwalk in short (defn postwalk [f form] (walk (parrtial postwalk f) f form)) |
| 09:54 | jcromartie | ugh I always screw myself over when trying to organize code into namespaces... I end up with cyclical dependencies everytime |
| 10:31 | jcromartie | OK this is fun |
| 10:31 | jcromartie | Say I have a defn in another namespace, and I use that namespace. |
| 10:31 | jcromartie | So the symbol resolves fine... |
| 10:31 | jcromartie | but then I use eval inside of pmap |
| 10:31 | jcromartie | and it fails |
| 10:32 | jcromartie | so ((eval 'normalize) "hi") works |
| 10:32 | jcromartie | but (pmap #((eval 'normalize) %) ["hi"]) does not |
| 10:33 | jcromartie | or a simpler example |
| 10:33 | jcromartie | @(future (eval 'normalize)) |
| 10:34 | tonyl | is normalize a valid symbol |
| 10:35 | jcromartie | (eval 'normalize) works fine, it resolves |
| 10:36 | jcromartie | but any new thread seems to not have that binding bound |
| 10:36 | tonyl | yeah that would be a problem |
| 10:37 | tonyl | why not (let [v (eval 'normalize)] (pmap #(v %) ["hi"])) |
| 10:38 | jcromartie | yeah I could do that |
| 10:38 | jcromartie | but I was going to defer eval until the last moment |
| 10:39 | jcromartie | simple enough of a change |
| 10:39 | tonyl | I am not much of a help there. I don't know much about threading bindings |
| 10:39 | jcromartie | but I assumed threads inherited bindings |
| 10:39 | jcromartie | :) |
| 10:39 | jcromartie | no problem |
| 10:39 | tonyl | as far as I know only root bindings, not parent bindings |
| 10:43 | jcromartie | "Supplying an initial value binds the root" |
| 10:43 | jcromartie | so (def x 1) should mean that any thread has access to x |
| 10:50 | kzar | I want to return an array with one change, something like take [:a :b :c] and return [:a :b :herp-derp], what's the best way to do that? |
| 10:51 | kzar | ,(aset [:a :b :c] 2 :herp-derp) |
| 10:51 | clojurebot | java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: aset |
| 10:52 | chouser | kzar: that would be right if [] were an array, but it's not -- it's a vector |
| 10:52 | chouser | ,(assoc [:a :b :c] 2 :herp-derp) |
| 10:52 | clojurebot | [:a :b :herp-derp] |
| 10:52 | kzar | chouser: oh whoops, thanks |
| 10:52 | kzar | chouser: I forgot they aren't the same, sorry |
| 11:26 | rata_ | hi all |
| 11:27 | rata_ | does anybody know a possible reason why "lein compile" isn't compiling my dependencies in one of my computers? (archlinux, lein 1.4.0) |
| 11:44 | jcromartie | what's the best way to structure namespaces and dependencies? |
| 11:45 | jcromartie | in terms of what depends on what namespace |
| 12:02 | amalloy | jcromartie: avoid cyclic dependencies :) - did you have something more specific in mind? |
| 12:07 | dnolen | anybody tried to write a binary decision diagram in Clojure? |
| 12:12 | amalloy | dnolen: what for? to figure out what function does the thing you want? |
| 12:12 | amalloy | if so, i know fliebel wanted to do that, but i think he gave up and did something easier |
| 12:13 | dnolen | amalloy: there's some interesting research (and working projects) that implement datalog efficiently via BDDs |
| 12:13 | dnolen | amalloy: also found an interesting paper that uses BDDs to do abstract interpretation of prolog programs. |
| 12:14 | dnolen | just curious if anybody had messed w/ them, had pointers, links, code to share. |
| 12:49 | fogus` | dnolen: I would love to see someone retrofit BDDs onto clojure-datalog. |
| 12:57 | dnolen | fogus`: I should look more closely at the clojure-datalog implementation, it uses magic sets right? |
| 13:01 | fogus` | dnolen: Yes. The datalog impl is very cool. I spent a couple hours picking Straszheim's brain at The Conf. If you want to learn more about it, then check out the dissertation "Soft Stratification for Transformation-Based Approaches to Deductive Databases" |
| 13:04 | pdlogan | fogus`: any idea of the expressiveness / performance of the datalog v. the recent mini-kanren's? -- i.e. I guess the datalog would not be as expressive -- is it a pretty efficient implementation? |
| 13:04 | dnolen | fogus: Yeah I'm looking forward to digging into it. I haven't used it much since it seems quite slow. |
| 13:04 | pdlogan | i.e. are any of these candidates for "real world use"? |
| 13:05 | dnolen | pdlogan: even the new miniKnaren is "slow". I'd like it to be about 10X faster than it is. Right now it solves the Zebra puzzle in ~14-20ms. I'd like to see < 2ms. |
| 13:06 | dnolen | I'm working on that. |
| 13:06 | fogus` | pdlogan: Not sure about real-world use as I haven't tried. I think in that regard I would love to see the TheDeadline folks open source their Rete engine. They seem to have no issues using it for real work |
| 13:07 | pdlogan | I see - thanks dnolen - you think it can get there eventually? |
| 13:07 | fogus` | pdlogan: I tried to convince them to do so, with no success. ;-) |
| 13:08 | dnolen | pdlogan: I don't see any obvious obstacles. There's a metric ton of literature out there that I've been pouring over that's quite helpful in that regard. |
| 13:08 | pdlogan | fogus`: the original OPS5 source is around somewhere - and oh is it a piece of work. |
| 13:09 | fogus` | pdlogan: As for expressiveness I can't say either (great help I am huh) since my experience with both has been exploratory |
| 13:09 | fogus` | pdlogan: Yes, I've looked at it (MY EYES!) |
| 13:09 | pdlogan | yeah, n/p - there are various levels of "datalogs +/-" |
| 13:10 | pdlogan | jena has a forward and backward engine in open source java, recenttly incubated for apache. (FWIW) |
| 13:10 | pdlogan | (two different engines and the forward has to run strictly before the backword if used together) |
| 13:11 | pdlogan | anyway all the attention to LP in clojure is getting exciting |
| 13:11 | fogus` | I've always wished that Jess had a less restrictive license |
| 13:12 | dnolen | pdlogan: yeah I haven't look at much forward literature. All Prolog stuff. I'm curious to see if Clojure makes it easier to unify them. |
| 13:12 | pdlogan | yeah jess seems the pinnacle in java |
| 13:13 | pdlogan | "forward" is by definition stateful, where backward is not, for one thing |
| 13:13 | fogus` | I've been playing with my own inference engine and have something fun working, but it's very rough around the edges and not general purpose. |
| 13:13 | dnolen | pdlogan: miniKanren is interesting in that that each function is like little a abstract logic machine. They produce goals, does it matter if the results are produced backwards or forwards in a particular machine? (I doubt it) |
| 13:15 | dnolen | Warren's incomplete paper on XSB brought me to that thought. |
| 13:18 | pdlogan | interesting stuff -- it's been a long time since I've been into logic programming and all of a sudden I have a big stack of reading. |
| 13:20 | fogus` | (inc pdlogan) |
| 13:20 | sexpbot | ⟹ 1 |
| 13:23 | dnolen | fogus`: thx for the datalog paper, I've been looking for the right ones to read. |
| 13:24 | fogus` | dnolen: to paraphrase Jeffrey -- If the paper doesn't talk about negation, then it's a toy. |
| 13:26 | dnolen | fogus`: also haven't read much about negation, beyond Prolog's negation as failure. |
| 13:26 | dnolen | and that miniKanren has disequality constraints. |
| 13:28 | maacl | I am struggling coming up with an elegant (or actually any) Clojure solution to this map transformation https://gist.github.com/733674 (python solution incl.) |
| 13:31 | amalloy | maacl: clojure.set/index? |
| 13:32 | amalloy | i don't think it's quite what you want, but it looks close, so maybe it's useful/inspirational? |
| 13:34 | maacl | amalloy: yeah looked at it, but i find it difficult to use when the map is "keyless" (i.e. the keys are actually data) |
| 13:35 | jcromartie | SQL Server* |
| 13:38 | jkkramer | maacl: here's one way, using reduce & for: https://gist.github.com/733691 |
| 13:45 | alexyk | jcromartie: are you serious? MSFT's? |
| 13:45 | pppaul | is there a tutorial on using 'for'? |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | alexyk: yes |
| 13:46 | amalloy | &(doc for) |
| 13:46 | sexpbot | ⟹ "Macro ([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost f... http://gist.github.com/733699 |
| 13:46 | alexyk | jcromartie: how do you limit things then? :) |
| 13:46 | amalloy | pppaul: the above is pretty good |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | select top 10 *... |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | instead of select * limit 10 |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | and to limit to a range, you need a subquery |
| 13:46 | alexyk | a*holes |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | select top 10 * from (select top 100 * ...) |
| 13:46 | jcromartie | heh yeah |
| 13:47 | alexyk | no matter how F# tempted me to look at .net I never plunged, and this stuff confirms it's not for naught |
| 13:47 | alexyk | no matter how Dr. Harrop enticed us |
| 13:49 | Raynes | https://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot/commit/ca81a293e39890d0289965c87178e52e6f762b4d |
| 13:50 | jweiss | chouser - having a curious problem with errorkit: https://gist.github.com/733706 |
| 13:54 | edw | My swank connection clobbers my app whenever I close it. Is there a way to avoid this? And ideally automatically re-spawn a swank listener? |
| 14:03 | amalloy | $source deferror |
| 14:03 | sexpbot | Source not found. |
| 14:04 | amalloy | jweiss: https://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/2ede388a9267d175bfaa7781ee9d57532eb4f20f/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/error_kit.clj#L59 |
| 14:05 | chouser | jweiss: yeah, deferror has all kinds of bad magic in it. :-( |
| 14:05 | amalloy | deferror puts some metadata in the var of the error thing you define; if you define a new var pointing at the same thing, it has the wrong meta |
| 14:05 | amalloy | (disclaimer: i've never used deferror in my life, but the source sure looks that way) |
| 14:06 | chouser | that was written before cgrand told us at the Conj to have our DSLs produce values, and not to rely on macros |
| 14:07 | jweiss | amalloy: chouser ok i see why that's happening now |
| 14:07 | jweiss | i guess i can copy over the meta myself |
| 14:09 | chouser | I'm actually not sure that'll be sufficient |
| 14:09 | chouser | there's also heirarchy stuff going on that appears to be based on the error's name, not its value. |
| 14:09 | amalloy | i'd guess not. when black magic is being done, usually you have to copy the meta and sacrifice a chicken |
| 14:10 | chouser | jweiss: are you sure you need error-kit? It's due to be replaced, I just haven't taken the time. |
| 14:10 | chouser | jweiss: if you don't actually need continue or continue-with, I'd recommend clojure.contrib.condition instead |
| 14:39 | chouser | huh. I just abused tree-seq where I normally would have used iterate |
| 14:40 | chouser | no need for a separate (take-while ...) to end the seq |
| 14:40 | jweiss | chouser: well i probably don't need it (yet) but i do need something like that at some point |
| 14:41 | jweiss | i'm kind of surprised there aren't more people using it, it's pretty cool (although it would seem the implementation could be improved) |
| 14:42 | jweiss | is there some other way to let the callers just pick a handler by name other than using error-kit |
| 14:43 | amalloy | chouser: wow, that's evil |
| 14:43 | amalloy | though tbh (take-while identity (iterate f x)) is so common i have a function for it |
| 14:44 | chouser | & (tree-seq #(< % 10) (comp list inc) 0) |
| 14:44 | sexpbot | ⟹ (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) |
| 14:44 | chouser | amalloy: I didn't realize that's what I was doing until I was done |
| 14:45 | hiredman | jweiss: condition from contrib is simpler than error kit, but flexible, you end up with throwable maps |
| 14:45 | jweiss | hiredman: yeah i saw that, i may give that a try |
| 14:46 | chouser | jweiss: you can provide a function that you will call when an error happens, and users can dynamically bind that to their own function that does what they want |
| 14:47 | jweiss | chouser: yeah, that would do what i need. i guess i don't really *need* error-kit then |
| 14:47 | chouser | error-kit probably doesn't blong in contrib, at least not in its current state |
| 14:48 | chouser | I wrote it as a sort of proof-of-concept, to show you could get most (all?) of Common Lisp's error handling behavior in Clojure |
| 14:48 | chouser | and it went it contib because that's where I was putting stuff then :-P |
| 14:49 | chouser | but that all leaves quite open the question of whether or not we *should* use all of Common Lisp's error handling in Clojure |
| 14:56 | dnolen | amazon s3 multipart upload api seems like a sweet thing to couple with Clojure. |
| 14:57 | dnolen | parallel file upload |
| 15:03 | edw | Whenever I close a swank connection in Emacs, my process (started via lein repl or lein swank) dies. How do I get my process and its REPL to continue running? |
| 15:06 | amalloy | edw: i haven't had that problem, but then i use cake |
| 15:07 | edw | I've tried wrapping the swank.swank/start-repl in a try statement, but it doesn't return, so the exception happens in another thread. |
| 15:07 | amalloy | that is, i don't know enough to suggest that it's lein's fault, but since cake is basically a drop-in replacement you might try it |
| 15:08 | edw | What's the prevelance of lein vs cake usage? I'm trying to keep my toolset as mainstream as possible. |
| 15:08 | amalloy | edw: i think they're both pretty mainstream these days |
| 15:11 | edw | I'll check it out. Thanks. |
| 15:12 | jkkramer | edw: how are you closing the swank connection in emacs? |
| 15:15 | raek | edw: I'm using leiningen and I haven't had that problem |
| 15:15 | edw | jkkramer: Using ,sayonara |
| 15:18 | jkkramer | edw: i've never seen that before. is that for quitting emacs or just closing swank? |
| 15:18 | edw | Okay, this is weird: using ,disconnect leads to a graceful shutdown while ,sayonara fubars the server. |
| 15:18 | edw | I.e. I can reconnect after ,disconnect-ing. |
| 15:19 | jkkramer | M-x slime-disconnect seems to also work |
| 15:19 | edw | This doesn't help if the connection is gracelessly severed e.g. I slap my laptop shut and go home. Or the network monkey restarts the router. |
| 15:22 | edw | I was hoping to use screen(1) to keep my app running forever on my Linode server. |
| 15:22 | jkkramer | edw: so severing your local connetion kills the remote swank server? |
| 15:23 | edw | Well let's try it... |
| 15:23 | jkkramer | that would be surprising to me |
| 15:24 | edw | Huh. With cake...it works! |
| 15:24 | edw | (To test, I killed the SSH tunnel and re-started it.) |
| 15:37 | maacl | jkkramer: thanks a lot |
| 15:40 | amalloy | edw: this isn't actually surprising, because cake does some things that are substantially different than lein |
| 15:41 | amalloy | specifically of interest to you is that the project jvm is kept alive in the background indefinitely. eg $ echo "(def x 1)" | cake repl; echo x | cake repl |
| 15:41 | amalloy | should result in 1, even though you "shut down" the repl |
| 15:53 | jweiss | & (declare z)(if (bound? z) z 0) |
| 15:53 | sexpbot | java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad! |
| 15:54 | jweiss | why does the above throw "Var user/z is unbound"? |
| 15:54 | amalloy | jweiss: the bots will only evaluate one sexp at a time. aside from declare being "evil" here, you need to wrap things in a (do) |
| 15:55 | amalloy | jweiss: (bound? #'z) |
| 15:55 | amalloy | or (var z) |
| 16:04 | stuartsierra | Ack no! swank broken on Clojure master |
| 16:16 | danlarkin | ~ $ readlink /tmp Tarragon |
| 16:16 | clojurebot | Titim gan éirí ort. |
| 16:16 | danlarkin | sorry |
| 16:54 | lpetit | hello, can someone explain me how to correctly set this bug (for which I've just provided a little patch) in the right state ? |
| 16:54 | lpetit | http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CONTRIB-102 |
| 16:55 | lpetit | I mean, I see in the docs I must set it the "patch" tag, and set in some ready to test state, but I don't see anywhere in the interface where I can do this. |
| 16:58 | stuartsierra | lpetit: we haven't sorted out the JIRA process completely yet |
| 16:59 | stuartsierra | your best bet is to bug somebody |
| 17:00 | stuartsierra | *my* answer is to not use anything in contrib except logging, json, and maybe sql |
| 17:00 | lpetit | stuartsierra: well, can I bug you ? |
| 17:00 | lpetit | :-D |
| 17:01 | stuartsierra | I'm busy. :) |
| 17:01 | stuartsierra | but I'll try to take a look later |
| 17:01 | lpetit | may this be a problem with the rights currently attributed to my profile ? |
| 17:03 | stuartsierra | dunno, I've managed to avoid learning anything about JIRA so far :) |
| 17:04 | hiredman | lpetit: I think you just mark it as test |
| 17:04 | marvinthepa | is there a way to do (apply and (true true true false false false)) |
| 17:05 | marvinthepa | other than (reduce #(and %1 %2) (true true true false false false)) |
| 17:05 | marvinthepa | i.e. without the last two false's being evaluated? |
| 17:05 | stuartsierra | no |
| 17:06 | lpetit | hiredman: well, "mark it as test", I do not see how to do that. Someone needs to explain me how to do this step by step in the JIRA UI. |
| 17:06 | stuartsierra | click "edit" |
| 17:07 | stuartsierra | change "patch" to "code & test" |
| 17:08 | stuartsierra | change "approval" to "test" |
| 17:08 | stuartsierra | (we need to change the text on that for contrib |
| 17:11 | lpetit | wow, how come I didn't see this "edit" button. Somehow since the "comments" were available, I have thought that I was already in editable state, with insufficient rights to edit attribute fields. Thanks Stuart. |
| 17:15 | marvinthepa | (every? #(true? %) (map #(and %1 %2) col (drop 1 col))) |
| 17:15 | marvinthepa | ugly.. |
| 17:17 | tonyl | marvinthepa: what are you trying to do? |
| 17:17 | brehaut | marvinthepa: (rest col) ~= (drop 1 col) |
| 17:18 | marvinthepa | wow |
| 17:18 | marvinthepa | i am really stupid forgetting about rest |
| 17:18 | brehaut | marvinthepa: you dont need to wrap true? in a fun either |
| 17:18 | lpetit | marvinthepa: true? instead of #(true? %) |
| 17:18 | marvinthepa | sure.. |
| 17:19 | marvinthepa | that was a fast shot. Anyway, lets say I have a lazy col of booleans |
| 17:19 | marvinthepa | I want to return false if one of them is false |
| 17:20 | marvinthepa | (apply and) does not work.. |
| 17:20 | brehaut | (some false? col) |
| 17:20 | kotarak | marvinthepa: (every? identity col) |
| 17:20 | lpetit | logical false (eg boolean false or nil), or true false (ah! true false!) |
| 17:20 | lpetit | ? |
| 17:21 | marvinthepa | Wow I feel stupid. It's late.. |
| 17:21 | brehaut | kotarak: is right, i am wrong |
| 17:21 | brehaut | s/:// |
| 17:21 | sexpbot | <brehaut> kotarak is right, i am wrong |
| 17:21 | kotarak | brehaut: I think yours should work, too, shoudn't it? |
| 17:22 | brehaut | its backwards |
| 17:22 | kotarak | Ah, yes |
| 17:22 | kotarak | You are right |
| 17:22 | lpetit | ,(every? identity [true true false]) |
| 17:22 | clojurebot | false |
| 17:23 | kotarak | ,(some false? [true true false]) |
| 17:23 | clojurebot | true |
| 17:23 | marvinthepa | ,(not (some false? [true true false])) |
| 17:23 | clojurebot | false |
| 17:23 | marvinthepa | thanks |
| 17:45 | jweiss | i seem to be having a problem where lein aot compiling is not working the way i'd expect - if i include a namespace to compile, and that ns refers to another one that uses defrecord, it doesn't seem to compile the defrecord, and running my compiled class fails. |
| 17:46 | jweiss | i wouldn't think i'd have to include gen-class on all the deps |
| 17:46 | stuartsierra | jweiss: this may be a bug: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-42 |
| 17:49 | jweiss | stuartsierra: hm, i am not sure if that's the bug or not. would lein be using reload-all under the covers? |
| 17:50 | stuartsierra | dunno |
| 17:51 | stuartsierra | but there *are* bugs around AOT-compiling and defrecord/deftype |
| 17:51 | jweiss | stuartsierra: ok good to know, i'll poke around jira |
| 17:51 | technomancy | AOT... more trouble than it's worth =P |
| 17:51 | stuartsierra | I don't think the bugs have been identified / ticketed yet. |
| 17:52 | jweiss | technomancy: unfortunately we have a lot invested in TestNG test harness... java classes only |
| 17:52 | technomancy | jweiss: it could be related to https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/#issue/141 |
| 17:52 | jweiss | technomancy: that sounds sorta like what i see |
| 17:52 | clizzin | how can i use clojure to override a single method in a java class? i googled up a page detailing the use of proxy; is that the preferred strategy? |
| 17:53 | kotarak | clizzin: it worked for me, YMMV |
| 17:54 | ohpauleez | clizzin: proxy is the best way |
| 17:54 | kotarak | clizzin: if you need the name of your class which does the override you'll need gen-class |
| 17:55 | clizzin | kotarak, ohpauleez: my understanding is that proxy returns an object of the "subclass" type, so that i can pass it to a java method that takes an argument of the superclass, correct? |
| 17:55 | clizzin | t |
| 17:55 | clizzin | that is* |
| 17:56 | lpetit | clizzin: yep |
| 17:56 | clizzin | lpetit: cool. (was going to clarify what i meant with an example, but looks like you get me.) |
| 17:56 | clizzin | thanks all! |
| 17:56 | clizzin | i'll give that a shot and hopefully it'll work |
| 17:56 | ohpauleez | clizzin: good luck! |
| 17:57 | kotarak | lpetit: woah. You obviously need a Java background to parse this that fast. ;) |
| 17:58 | lpetit | kotarak: maybe I have just /pretended/ to understand. After all, one chance over two, and I'll sleep before we'll get the answer ;) |
| 17:58 | kotarak | lpetit: haha :D |
| 18:00 | lpetit | no, in fact I'm used to reading Eclipse javadocs and filling the holes, I've a lot of training, that's all :-p |
| 18:01 | kotarak | lpetit: yeah, I wouldn't expect you throwing guesses around. :) |
| 18:05 | clizzin | ugh so proxy can't access protected members...is there any way to do this in clojure, or will i have to write some java? |
| 18:13 | clizzin | i notice lpetit has gone silent after all, haha |
| 18:13 | lpetit | hey, it's midnight here in France ! |
| 18:14 | lpetit | oh, sorry you wrote smth. You didn't place lpetit in your post, btw |
| 18:14 | clizzin | haha, no worries. yeah, it wasn't a specific query for you, but it does seem you are probably best equipped to answer. |
| 18:15 | lpetit | clizzin: I'll let the proxy experts talk. |
| 18:15 | kotarak | clizzin: gen-class has some knobs to expose protected things, but never used them. You'll have to check the docs. |
| 18:15 | lpetit | clizzin: proxy probably suffers from the same limitations as dynamic java proxies ? |
| 18:15 | ohpauleez | if you have access to the Java side of things (and not just the class or jar) you can just put them in the same package namespace |
| 18:15 | clizzin | kotarak: thanks for the tip |
| 18:16 | clizzin | ohpauleez: oh interesting. this is definitely possible via gen-class, but do you know if it can be done with proxy? i don't see it in the docs, but maybe someone knows something. |
| 18:17 | lpetit | clizzin: suggestion when using gen-class = levarage the :impl-ns option . So the "API" of your gen-class is clearly separated from your "implementation". |
| 18:17 | lpetit | clizzin: and sometimes it can let you solve cyclic compilation problems, too. |
| 18:17 | ohpauleez | clizzin: no idea, I haven't tried to do it with a protected method before |
| 18:19 | clizzin | lpetit, ohpauleez: thanks for the tips, i'll poke around in the docs and see if i can figure something out |
| 18:19 | ohpauleez | awesome |
| 19:56 | KirinDave | I'm having a weird issue with ring |
| 19:56 | KirinDave | Ihave all these logging statements that seem to be swallowed when they're in ring handlers. |
| 19:56 | KirinDave | Anyone know why this might be? |
| 20:00 | hiredman | logging like real logging, or logging like printlns? |
| 20:06 | KirinDave | hiredman: Well actually neither get out |
| 20:07 | hiredman | printlns are not surprising because they print to *out*, which, who knows how it's been rebound |
| 20:11 | KirinDave | hiredman: I think we're trying to use logula, which is one of the illustrious codahale's tools. |
| 20:12 | hiredman | never heard of it |
| 20:17 | jcromartie | so, in clojure.contrib.sql with-connection can't combine multiple with-query-results? |
| 20:20 | jcromartie | hm no that's not right |
| 20:20 | jcromartie | laziness |
| 20:20 | jcromartie | that's the issue |
| 21:54 | GMTao | Hey all. |
| 21:55 | GMTao | I heard that Rich has left Clojure and moved on to other things. Is this true? |
| 21:55 | hiredman | you'd have to ask him |
| 21:56 | GMTao | Okay, thanks. I wasn't sure, so I wanted to confirm. |
| 22:41 | defn | wait. what? |
| 22:42 | defn | is there any evidence to suggest what GMTao is talking about is true? |
| 22:50 | jcromartie | it looks like he's gone a bit quiet |
| 22:50 | jcromartie | but it's only been 4 days since a commit |
| 22:51 | defn | 4 days? That's it? |
| 22:51 | defn | It's called a "vacation", folks. |
| 22:51 | defn | :) |
| 22:51 | brehaut | wait, those are for nerds too? |
| 23:23 | Raynes | defn: Uh, unless Rich got run over by a bus, I seriously highly extremely doubt that that would happen. |
| 23:26 | defn | Raynes: hey man dont shoot the messenger |
| 23:26 | defn | i was just surprised, thought maybe i missed a memo |
| 23:26 | Raynes | $seen rhicky |
| 23:26 | sexpbot | I have never seen rhicky. |
| 23:26 | Raynes | $seen rhickey |
| 23:26 | sexpbot | rhickey was last seen quitting 3 days ago. |
| 23:27 | Raynes | Indeed. Probably doing talks or holiday stuff or something. |
| 23:27 | defn | btw, Ruby is becoming more sane -- I've got JRuby using headius' bridge to the Clojure STM, Hamster (tries), multiple dispatch methods, and the ability to read in and emit s-expressions |
| 23:28 | defn | this is all likely for naught, but I can't help wondering what a "sane" ruby would look like... |
| 23:30 | technomancy | defn: I saw that cloby gem |
| 23:30 | technomancy | what exactly is the point of putting mutable objects in STM? |
| 23:30 | technomancy | does he just not understand what's going on there or what? |