#clojure – 2010-09-16

2010-09-16

00:16	bhenry	practical use for binding outside of testing?
00:20	wwmorgan	bhennry: (binding [out err] (println "something")) ;print to standard error
00:40	sproust	Hi; I have a quick question about an install problem.
00:40	sproust	I'm trying to get penumbra (OpenGL bindings) working.
00:41	sproust	lein native-deps provides this error message: Caused by: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.RestFn.<init>(I)V
00:41	sproust	at clojure.contrib.java_utils$file__565.<init>(java_utils.clj:83
00:41	sproust	I looked in the source, couldn't find references to init.
00:42	sproust	Any hints where to dig next?
00:42	sproust	It seems to be leiningen issue. I upgraded to latest stable leiningen (1.3.1) and re-ran self-install.
00:43	hiredman	means you have some clojure code aot'ed (to class files) and they were aot'ed with a different version of clojure then the one you where using
00:44	sproust	hiredman: thx!
00:45	sproust	It must be one of the project's dependencies.
00:46	sproust	hiredman: Is there a way to get some sort of signature to find out which Clojure generated the class file? (I'm unfamiliar with Java, maybe this is a Java obvious one.)
00:46	hiredman	no
00:47	hiredman	you can look through your dependencies for class files
00:47	sproust	There's a bunch.
00:48	sproust	I get two stack traces; from those, is there any way I could find out which dependency fails? (by inspection it isn't obvious, unless it's java-utils)
00:49	hiredman	can you pastebin the stacktrace?
00:49	sproust	http://pastebin.com/y41gze5z
00:51	hiredman	do you have maven installed?
00:52	hiredman	you can have lein generate a pom.xml and then maven can generate a dependency graph
00:52	sproust	yep, maven2 (I don't know anything about it, I'm coming into Clojure from the LISP / dyn.lang angle)
00:52	sproust	Ha, nice.
00:52	sproust	Thx hiredman.
00:54	sproust	Well that'll just list the libraries.
00:54	sproust	Would be a nice feature to add to Clojure, to insert some marker in the jar files about which version compiled it, since it matters... wouldn't it?
01:12	sproust	re. penumbra: something's hokey with leiningen; I went the lazy route and rm'ed its repository (~/.m2), reinstalled it, and now it works!
01:33	sproust	Must be my lucky night, I managed to crash Java: # A fatal error has been detected by the Java Runtime Environment. Allright, to be continued. Thx again hiredman (G'night).
02:32	jjido	,(pos? 0)
02:32	clojurebot	false
02:33	jjido	,(nat? 0)
02:33	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: nat? in this context
02:35	phobbs	,(let [nat? (partial >= 0)] (nat? 0))
02:35	clojurebot	true
02:36	jjido	phobbs: hey, you can put the operator between the operands?
02:36	jjido	ah I get it
02:36	jjido	"partial"
02:36	phobbs	yes
02:36	phobbs	I wish clojure would automatically partial functions like haskell
02:36	tomoj	,(let [nat? (partial >= 0)] (nat? 0.5))
02:36	clojurebot	false
02:36	tomoj	maybe I don't know what 'nat' stands for
02:36	phobbs	erm
02:37	phobbs	,(>= 0 0.5)
02:37	clojurebot	false
02:37	phobbs	oh
02:37	phobbs	I'm flipping it again
02:37	phobbs	haskell habits
02:37	jjido	tomoj: natural numbers
02:38	phobbs	yeah
02:38	phobbs	and you have to test that it is an integer
02:38	tomoj	that's what I was worried about, didn't even realize that (>= 0 0.5)
02:38	jjido	phobbs: mmh I don't need to test that :) I just want pos? with zero included
02:38	phobbs	oh
02:39	phobbs	well then you just do (partial <= 0)
02:39	phobbs	or #(<= 0 %)
02:39	phobbs	which is a little too perl-ish for my tastes
02:39	phobbs	syntax soup
02:44	lancepantz_	anyone else get an insatiable desire to code when the get home from work?
02:44	lancepantz_	i got at work
02:44	lancepantz_	but usually those are huge projects
02:44	lancepantz_	but then i come home, nothing to do
02:44	lancepantz_	and want to do something simple
02:45	jjido	how do you read command-line arguments? Then convert to int with a default value
02:47	jjido	,(doc command-line-args)
02:47	clojurebot	"; A sequence of the supplied command line arguments, or nil if none were supplied"
02:48	jjido	,(first nil)
02:48	clojurebot	nil
02:50	jjido	,(or nil 4)
02:50	clojurebot	4
02:53	phobbs	,(doc read-line)
02:53	clojurebot	"([]); Reads the next line from stream that is the current value of in ."
02:54	jjido	,(.parseInt "4")
02:54	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: parseInt for class java.lang.String
02:56	zmila	lancepantz_, i do sometimes at-home programming. these are little hobby projects (like personal dvd and books library) or solving project-euler problems
02:56	lancepantz_	its a nice break
02:56	lancepantz_	all day i was fighting dragons in solr and jetty
02:56	lancepantz_	just just to come home to an empy repl feels nice
02:56	lancepantz_	better than tv :)
03:10	jjido	if you do (+ @(future (f1)) @(future (f2))), does Clojure wait for (f1) to start (f2)?
03:11	Chousuke	I don't know if the order is defined but AFAIK yes.
03:12	jjido	beginner's programming error :-/
03:19	LauJensen	Good morning all
03:20	jjido	,(time (doseq @(future (Thread/sleep 1000)) @(future (Thread/sleep 1000))))
03:20	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: doseq requires a vector for its binding
03:21	jjido	,(time (and @(future (Thread/sleep 1000)) @(future (Thread/sleep 1000))))
03:21	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: No such namespace: Thread
03:22	_na_ka_na_	hey guys, how do a distinguish a list, vector from a map, coll? returns false for a []
03:23	_na_ka_na_	,(coll? [])
03:23	clojurebot	true
03:23	LauJensen	,(vector? '(1 2 3))
03:23	clojurebot	false
03:23	LauJensen	,(map? [1 2 3])
03:23	_na_ka_na_	,(coll? {})
03:23	clojurebot	false
03:23	clojurebot	true
03:25	_na_ka_na_	LauJensen: I want to distinguish between a collection and an object (not necessarily a map)
03:25	_na_ka_na_	so map? doesn't quite do it
03:26	_na_ka_na_	seq? and coll? are also don't
03:26	LauJensen	Example?
03:26	clojurebot	examples is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/API_Examples
03:27	jjido	Chousuke: it does the Right Thing, ie. it runs both at the same time
03:28	_na_ka_na_	LauJensen: something like .. (many? []) => true ... (many? '()) => true ... (many? (seq ..)) => true ... (many? anything-else) => false
03:30	_na_ka_na_	I guess many? = (comp (comp not map?) coll?)
03:30	_na_ka_na_	not tested
03:32	LauJensen	,(not-any? true? ((juxt vector? map? list?) 5))
03:32	clojurebot	true
03:32	jjido	Chousuke: sorry my mistake, it doesn't.
03:33	LauJensen	That'll test for all non-clojure types
03:33	_na_ka_na_	ah my bad .. (and (comp not map?) coll?)
03:33	_na_ka_na_	oh we have vector? and list? .. didnt know that
03:34	_na_ka_na_	, (source coll?)
03:34	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
03:34	_na_ka_na_	, (clojure.repl/source coll?)
03:34	clojurebot	Source not found
03:36	LauJensen	~source coll?
03:37	_na_ka_na_	,(#(and ((comp not map?) %) (coll? %)) [])
03:37	clojurebot	true
03:37	_na_ka_na_	,(#(and ((comp not map?) %) (coll? %)) '())
03:37	clojurebot	true
03:37	_na_ka_na_	,(#(and ((comp not map?) %) (coll? %)) {})
03:37	clojurebot	false
03:37	_na_ka_na_	,(#(and ((comp not map?) %) (coll? %)) 543)
03:37	clojurebot	false
03:38	_na_ka_na_	,(#(and ((comp not map?) %) (coll? %)) "")
03:38	clojurebot	false
03:39	_na_ka_na_	LauJensen: I'm having to deal with a multimethod which returns a vector of objects sometimes and sometimes just one object .. how do I deal with it?
03:40	_na_ka_na_	changing the multimethod itself is not a pretty solution .. as all but one defmethod return only one object ..
03:41	LauJensen	How the receiver should deal with it? How about just wrapping the single object in [object], that way all interfaces would still work. Thats probably the best alternative to adjusting the mm
03:42	_na_ka_na_	LauJensen: but as a receiver I first need to find out if its single or not .. that's what I want to avoid .. I think its not good to have a function return different things at different times .. . I think I'll just change all defmethods
03:43	LauJensen	Good idea
03:43	LauJensen	If you just let everything return a vector, you have a uniform interface
03:43	_na_ka_na_	thanks
03:43	_na_ka_na_	ya
03:48	_Vi	Why when I do "(def q (ref 0)), (comment Now start incrementor of q) (def f (future (loop [] (dosync (ref-set q (+ 1 @q))) (recur)))), (comment Acquire 1000 values from q repeatably) (dosync (for [x (range 1000)] @q))" I get list with from increasing values? Isn't this in the transaction created by "dosync"?
03:49	_Vi	*list of increasing values
03:50	LauJensen	_Vi: for is list-comprehension, so its taking a 1000 values and returning them as a seq
03:50	_Vi	LauJensen, Why that values are not the same?
03:51	LauJensen	hmm
03:51	_Vi	LauJensen, I clearly see that q is updated by future while transaction should prevent this.
03:51	LauJensen	I think its because you're not comitting anything, so your transaction doesn't retry. try (dosync (for [x (range 1000)] (ensure q)))
03:52	LauJensen	That will prevent q from being written to while you're working
03:54	_Vi	(dosync (def l (for [x (range 1000)] @q)) (ensure q) l) ; The same
03:56	_Vi	BTW How to explicitly start a transaction? "(dosync (for [x (range 1000)] (ensure q)))" -> "No transaction running"
03:59	_Vi	Probably understood. "for" is returning "lazy" sequence and "(ensure q)" is called not in "dosync", but while printing.
03:59	raek	_Vi: for is lazy, so it isn't realized until you try to print it, which happens outside the transaction. use 'doseq'
04:00	raek	which is exactly like for, except that it is not lazy and returns nil (presumably, it is used for its side-effects)
04:02	raek	you can also use doall to force a lazy sequence
04:03	raek	(dosync (doall (for [x (range 1000)] @q))) ; will force the lazy sequence returned by for to be fully realized within the transaction
04:03	raek	hrm, use might not be the best fit for the acquire part...
04:03	raek	s/use/doseq/
04:03	sexpbot	<raek> hrm, doseq might not be the best fit for the acquire part...
04:03	_Vi	Yes, "doall" fixes things.
04:05	raek	also, don't do ref-set + @, use 'alter' instead
04:06	raek	(doc alter)
04:06	clojurebot	"([ref fun & args]); Must be called in a transaction. Sets the in-transaction-value of ref to: (apply fun in-transaction-value-of-ref args) and returns the in-transaction-value of ref."
04:06	raek	(alter q inc)
04:09	raek	(dotimes [_ 1000] (Thread/sleep 10) (alter q inc))
04:09	raek	(dotimes [_ 1000] (Thread/sleep 10) (dosync (alter q inc))) ; ahem
04:15	raek	_Vi: (what I said after the last thing you said and when your connection died: http://pastebin.com/8XMzieFE )
04:16	_Vi	raek, (Yes, I'm looking at http://clojure-log.n01se.net/ now but it is not yet updated to this point)
04:20	_Vi	(def f (future (recur))) (comment endless loop in background), (future-cancel f) ; Still looping
04:20	_Vi	How to really terminate it (without of restarting JVM)?
04:21	raek	I'm not sure that futures can be canceled at all times
04:21	raek	the best way is probably to make the looping code check for a condition
04:22	_Vi	raek, I mean if there is some broken code looping, and we need to get rid of it.
04:23	_Vi	raek, For example, it can get stuck not in Clojure code, but in some external library.
04:24	raek	good question, but unfortunately I don't know the answer
04:24	jjido	anyone wants to test? I get no benefit from parallelism with a 1000 elements set http://pastebin.ca/1941926
04:24	Chousuke	_Vi: You can't really
04:25	_Vi	Something like Thread.interrupt() or Thread.stop().
04:25	Chousuke	_Vi: unless you get hold of the Thread instance that the future is running in and call .stop on it
04:25	Chousuke	but even that's deprecated
04:25	Chousuke	.interrupt doesn't help with broken code.
04:25	_Vi	How to get the Thread instance of a future?
04:25	Chousuke	No idea :/ I think they run in an executor so hm.
04:26	_Vi	E.g. how to more-or-less safely call to some binary blob that can arbitrarily do "for(;;);" just for fun?
04:28	Chousuke	_Vi: use Threads explicitly and .stop them. or use clj-sandbox
06:04	kjeldahl	Any gurus want a question? I have a list with integers indicating capacity. I have a known need (for capacity). I want to iterate through the list, taking the available capacity from each entry until capacity has been reached.
06:04	kjeldahl	And here I am wrapping my head around for/recur/while etc. not quite figuring it out.
06:05	kjeldahl	,'(range 10)
06:05	clojurebot	(range 10)
06:05	kjeldahl	,'[(range 10)]
06:05	clojurebot	[(range 10)]
06:05	kjeldahl	,(range 10)
06:05	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
06:06	kjeldahl	Let that be the list. Say I want to read from the top, until total capacity reaches 8. 0+1+2+3+ (half of four)
06:12	LauJensen	kjeldahl: like this?
06:12	LauJensen	,(reduce #(if (< (reduce + %1) 10) (conj %1 %2) %1) [] (range 20))
06:12	clojurebot	[0 1 2 3 4]
06:12	LauJensen	Walks through (range 20), stops when the sum is > 10
06:13	LauJensen	or.. stops is the wrong word. But it doesn't accumulate above that point
06:13	kjeldahl	Let me chew on that.
06:14	kjeldahl	Where's my 8?
06:14	kjeldahl	(the capacity I want filled)
06:14	LauJensen	,(reduce #(if (< (reduce + %1) 8) (conj %1 %2) %1) [] (range 20))
06:14	clojurebot	[0 1 2 3 4]
06:15	LauJensen	,(let [capacity 8] (reduce #(if (< (reduce + %1) capacity) (conj %1 %2) %1) [] (range 20)))
06:15	clojurebot	[0 1 2 3 4]
06:16	kjeldahl	Excellent. I'll see if I can munge it into something usable in my baby-steps code. Thanks.
06:16	LauJensen	kjeldahl: np. Most of the time, loop/recurs can be replaced by reduce. But this is one of those cases where if this was performance critical, I would do a loop instead
06:17	kjeldahl	Yes, this is what hit me as well. Nothing critical right now, but good to know. Thanks again.
06:19	raek	maximum flow problem?
06:19	bsteuber	I think gen-class should do automatic conversion to camel case
06:20	bsteuber	so you can use the same code for java and clojure callers
06:21	LauJensen	kjeldahl: In case you're wondering, this is a simple loop version
06:21	LauJensen	(loop [x (range 20) acc []] (if (< (reduce + acc) 8) (recur (next x) (conj acc (first x))) acc))
06:21	LauJensen	and this is probably a little faster for larger data sets
06:21	LauJensen	(loop [x (range 20) acc [] sum 0] (if (< sum 8) (recur (next x) (conj acc (first x)) (+ sum (first x))) acc))
06:21	LauJensen	(because its not calling reduce on each loop)
06:21	LauJensen	im done :)
06:25	pomyk	hello
06:25	bsteuber	does anyone else have problems with lein not returning after it's done?
06:25	raek	kjeldahl: you don't happen to be practicing for Nordic Collegiate Programming Contest?
06:25	pomyk	does clojureql work with clojure 1.2?
06:26	LauJensen	kjeldahl: actually, sorry last one. I showed you something in poor style, calling first twice. Usually when you reference something twice with a modifier, you should bind it to a name, this is the way to go:
06:26	LauJensen	(loop [[x & xs] (range 20) acc [] sum 0] (if (< sum 8) (recur xs (conj acc x) (+ sum x)) acc))
06:26	LauJensen	pomyk: If you build the jar without AOT compilation, then yes, if you just use the source then it works as well. AOT compilation currently only works for 1.0
06:26	kjeldahl	raek: No, I'm using the planetwars google ai challenge to try to teach myself some clojure.
06:27	kjeldahl	raek: Obviously, clojure being my first function language... :-)
06:28	kjeldahl	*functionAL
06:32	kjeldahl	,(doc negate)
06:32	clojurebot	Excuse me?
06:33	LauJensen	,(doc complement)
06:33	clojurebot	"([f]); Takes a fn f and returns a fn that takes the same arguments as f, has the same effects, if any, and returns the opposite truth value."
06:33	kjeldahl	,(* -5 -1)
06:33	clojurebot	5
06:33	kjeldahl	That's what I want. Cheat sheet says negate, but doesn't seem to exist.
06:34	LauJensen	,(doc unchecked-negate)
06:34	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns the negation of x, an int or long. Note - uses a primitive operator subject to overflow."
06:34	kjeldahl	Thanks again.
06:34	LauJensen	np
06:35	kjeldahl	Ah, didn't read the cheat sheet close enough...
06:36	fbru02	is it true what i read here that 1.3 will be getting a sort of maybe monad??
06:38	raek	link?
06:38	clojurebot	your link is dead
06:41	raek	this might be of intereset: I think that contrib's -?> and -?>> have maybe-monad-like behaviour (if I have understood the maybe monad correctly; I'm a total noob in that area)
06:41	raek	,-?>
06:41	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: -?> in this context
06:42	raek	,(use '[clojure.contrib.core :only [-?> -?>>]])
06:42	fbru02	raek cool i will check them out
06:42	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/core__init.class or clojure/contrib/core.clj on classpath:
06:43	raek	they work like ordinary -> and ->>, but stops and returns nil if any form in the chain returns nil
06:45	raek	-> -?>
06:45	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: -?> in this context
06:45	LauJensen	Im glad I started so early with Clojure, coming in now and seeing functions like "$" "->" "->>" "-?>>" "#(fn %&)" etc will likely freak some people out
06:49	LauJensen	which one?
06:50	raek	when the condition of a cond clause is large enought to occupy a whole line, how do you indent?
06:50	LauJensen	I've suggested wrapping each line in a ()
06:50	raek	didn't know that you could do that in clojure
06:51	LauJensen	You cant, it was a suggested change to cond/condp/deftemplates/defsnippet et al
06:52	pomyk	with clojure 1.2 I get this warning in repl: WARNING: group-by already refers to: #'clojure.core/group-by in namespace: clojureql, being replaced by: #'clojureql/group-by
06:52	raek	maybe I could resort to use two nested ifs this time...
06:54	raek	pomyk: there's a function called group-by in clojure.core nowadays. it can be replaced by another function when using use, so that older code will not break
06:58	LauJensen	Ive written a quite simple factorial for beginners to model their code after:
06:58	LauJensen	,(letfn [(!-?> [&$ &!] (if (> &! 1)(!-?> (->> &$ (* &!))(-> &! dec))&$))](!-?> 1 5))
06:58	clojurebot	120
07:00	raek	you could replace 'dec' with #(- % (*))
07:01	LauJensen	even better
07:03	raek	,(letfn [(!-?> [&$ &!] (if (> &! ())(!-?> (->> &$ ( &!))(-> &! #(- % ())))&$))](!-?> () (- (* (+ () ()) (+ () () ())) ())))
07:03	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: sandbox$eval6608$_BANG___QMARK__GT___6609$_AMPERSAND__BANG___6610 cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
07:09	raek	I guess you have hanged out in #clojure too long when you feel the urge to have show-paren-mode in irssi...
07:10	LauJensen	raek: or not long enough. I have parens matching in all channels, thanks to ERC
07:10	LauJensen	I think this is the most elegant version
07:10	LauJensen	,(letfn [(!-?>[&$ &!](if(>,&!,1)(!-?>@(->>,&$,(*,&!)ref)(->,&!,dec))&$))](!-?>,1,5))
07:10	clojurebot	120
07:10	raek	ERC is very high on my to-learn list
07:25	tomoj	LauJensen: how? not paredit right?
07:25	LauJensen	tomoj: What? I never use paredit, what are you talking about? :)
07:26	tomoj	you use emacs but not paredit? O_o
07:27	LauJensen	http://twitter.com/LauJensen/status/18062045007
07:28	tomoj	you really think so?
07:28	tomoj	or is that just agitprop?
07:29	LauJensen	Whats 'agitprop' ?
07:29	tomoj	s/agitprop/flamebait
07:29	LauJensen	ah, well its both
07:29	tomoj	you really think so and it's flamebait?
07:29	LauJensen	Yes sir
07:30	tomoj	I'd love to hear a more detailed explanation someday
07:30	LauJensen	I think Paredit has its virtues when you're writing code, but I think its a ball 'n' chain as soon as you have to edit loads of code. I've had several tries with it and its always made me slower
07:31	tomoj	I see
07:32	tomoj	what is it that you do while editing loads of code which is easier without paredit?
07:32	LauJensen	just standard refactoring
07:32	LauJensen	I think. Didn't really stop and think about it :)
07:32	tomoj	and, I don't mean to imply anything by asking this, but did you know all the bindings well?
07:32	LauJensen	hehe
07:33	LauJensen	No I think I knew like 10%
07:33	tomoj	ok
07:33	tomoj	counterflame: paredit is like training wheels that turn into jet engines once you figure out how to use them
07:34	LauJensen	I'll tell you what I've told every individual who has made statements to that effect: Screencast or it didn't happen
07:34	tomoj	I really want to
07:34	tomoj	I always get frustrated with the tools
07:34	AWizzArd	tomoj: how do you cut the expression your cursor is on?
07:35	AWizzArd	(a b \|(c d e) x y) ==> Keys ==> (a b x y) and (c d e) can be pasted somewhere else
07:35	tomoj	kill-sexp, C-M-k by default
07:35	AWizzArd	C-k at alone this position would result in (a b)
07:36	tomoj	right
07:36	LauJensen	tomoj: C-M-k isn't specific to paredit
07:36	tomoj	indeed
07:36	tomoj	wasn't my example :)
07:36	LauJensen	I know, Im just keeping it real :)
07:36	tomoj	LauJensen: have you made screencasts before?
07:37	AWizzArd	C-M-k doesn't work for me like this. It is doing the same as C-k
07:37	tomoj	would be interested in recommendations for free tools
07:37	LauJensen	tomoj: many
07:37	LauJensen	tomoj: Which OS are you on ?
07:37	zmila	after using paredit from CCW i feel its lack in my java programming
07:37	tomoj	AWizzArd: check what it's bound to
07:37	tomoj	LauJensen: ubuntu, have os x available too
07:38	LauJensen	tomoj: On OSX I dont know of any free tools, but I would purchase Screenflow. Its cheap and powerful. Cemerick uses it. On linux I use gnome-soundrecord and gtk-recordMyDesktop. Once Im done shooting I mix the video/audio in Audacity, and merge them with mkvmerge and upload to Vimeo
07:38	tomoj	what resolution do you record?
07:38	LauJensen	Post processing takes about 5 minutes
07:38	tomoj	I couldn't seem to find any good answers for resolutions for vimeo
07:38	LauJensen	I usually aim for 800x600 - No good reason
07:39	LauJensen	tomoj: You can see my latest screencast, which was shot with Camtasia and was the correct resolution for HD - Forgot the numbers though
07:39	raek	can audacity do edit video too?
07:39	tomoj	thanks for the tips
07:39	LauJensen	raek: No. But there are actually good video editors of linux as well
07:39	tomoj	I had a camtasia demo
07:40	tomoj	also snapz pro
07:40	tomoj	I'll try gtk-recordMyDesktop
07:41	LauJensen	tomoj: it supposedly can both record audio and video at the same time. But Ive never had a good result with it
07:42	LauJensen	So what I do is, I start the sound recorder first, then the video record. Then open the sound afterwards and select the starting point as when I say "Hi" and then the end point as the duration of the video + starting point. Cut that out, save as mp3, merge
07:42	LauJensen	At first I used an insanly long mencoder formula to merge, but then I found out that mkvmerge could do the process in 1 sec with no args :)
07:47	LauJensen	tomoj: Do you have a blog where you will publish?
07:48	tomoj	no, only a snowman http://tomojack.com/
07:48	tomoj	I had a blog there but took it down because there'd only been one post for months
07:49	LauJensen	Was your name Tomas or Jack ?
07:49	LauJensen	s/Was/Is/
07:49	sexpbot	<LauJensen> Is your name Tomas or Jack ?
07:49	tomoj	thomas
07:49	tomoj	'tomo' a nickname from esperanto
07:50	LauJensen	Yea I remember you told me
07:50	LauJensen	Ok well, you'll have to announce it here then, once you're done :)
07:50	tomoj	will do
07:50	tomoj	don't hold your breath
07:50	LauJensen	O_O
08:04	tomoj	LauJensen: got any ideas for what would be a good way to demo?
08:04	tomoj	I was thinking a very simple project might be nice
08:05	LauJensen	tomoj: You're looking to code a project live ?
08:05	tomoj	well, maybe
08:05	tomoj	I don't want to just mess with contrived examples
08:05	tomoj	I want to show using paredit to write/refactor real code
08:05	LauJensen	tomoj: Would be great if you had some code lying around, that needing converting to protocols/records
08:36	bobo_	i got supprised by the choice of rails for diaspora, but cant decide what i would have used. Could clojure handle a site potentialy that heavy used? with that much dynamic content? i doubt rails will
08:37	LauJensen	bobo_: Jetty is very touted for its scalability, but personally I have my doubts
08:40	bobo_	im not sure how i would do at all. i almost wanna say php, but i refuse
08:42	nlogax	isn't it rails that can only handle 1 request at a time?
08:42	nlogax	maybe that's fixed now :)
08:45	solussd	I' trying to use swank-clojure with leiningen, I type "lein swank" in my project directory and I get an error: "That's not a task. Use "lein help" to list all tasks." I've added [swank-clojure "1.2.1"] to my project's :dependencies list and then ran "lein deps". anyideas?
08:46	r0man	solussd: i think you must add it to the :dev-dependencies list
08:46	bobo_	solussd: dev-dependencies
08:46	bobo_	or add it to ~/.lein/plugins
08:46	bobo_	wher "it" is the jar
08:46	bobo_	~/.lein/plugins$ ls
08:46	bobo_	swank-clojure-1.2.1.jar
08:46	clojurebot	http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Protocols http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2009-10-13.html#12:02
08:47	solussd	thanks, that did it.
09:02	LauJensen	bobo_: Ive just seen a report wherein Jetty handled 10.000 concurrent users with 250 threads and a latency of about 2.5s per request
09:02	bobo_	2.5s is ages on internet, but i assume that goes down pretty fast
09:04	LauJensen	bobo_: Yes, but it tells you something about when to shard your application, which will happen eventually anyway, so that point may come 10% sooner for Jetty than for Rails, but if it has speed up your development process by 400% not using rails, it still could make sense
09:04	bobo_	indeed
09:05	bobo_	would be intresting to benchmark some clojure web code
09:05	bobo_	maybe i should try something with some rest and curl
09:07	LauJensen	Yea, you should need to a host and a server both on massive connections for it to have any real value
09:07	fbru02	how would be a good way of doing juxt over a vector ??
09:07	LauJensen	I mean, server and client
09:08	LauJensen	fbru02: What are you looking to do ?
09:08	bobo_	yes, massive connections i have some. i live in sweden afterall :-)
09:08	LauJensen	bobo_: oh right, I always forget that Denmark is Scandinavias little Africa when it comes to IT
09:08	fbru02	LauJensen: I have a vector of [fn(x), fn1(x)] and i want to juxt fn fn1(x)
09:08	bobo_	LauJensen: lol
09:09	LauJensen	bobo_: Its so terrible here, that its not even funny
09:09	mrBliss	fbru02: apply?
09:09	LauJensen	,(apply juxt [(print "one ") (print "two")])
09:09	clojurebot	#<core$juxt$fn__3657 clojure.core$juxt$fn__3657@95f865>
09:09	clojurebot	one two
09:09	fbru02	mrBliss: LauJensen thanks a lot i sometimes forget about that magic thing :)
09:11	grignaak	is there something that is the reverse of apply?
09:11	grignaak	something like (defn select [f] (fn [& xs] (f xs)))
09:12	LauJensen	grignaak: What are you looking to do with it?
09:13	grignaak	((#(fn [& xs] (% xs)) second) 1 2 3)
09:13	grignaak	,((#(fn [& xs] (% xs)) second) 1 2 3)
09:13	clojurebot	2
09:13	grignaak	where the lambda is replaced by the defn above
09:42	fliebel	Is it defined behavior(ie, something that can be relied on) that load-file returns the result of the last expression?
09:43	LauJensen	fliebel: judging from the doc string I would say yes
09:44	jjido	,(defn troll [opinion object dissing] (println (pick opinion) " " (pick object) ". " (pick dissing))) (troll ["I love" "I hate"] ["Java" "Clojure" "functional"] ["I don't get you.""You don't read what I wrote." "There are idiots everywhere."])
09:44	clojurebot	DENIED
09:44	LauJensen	Also, Rich is usually pretty strict about sticking with signatures
09:45	_fogus_	,(#(second %&) 1 2 3)
09:45	clojurebot	2
09:45	fliebel	LauJensen: Okay :) None of the other load/require/use functions seems to do this. It's nice to avoid things like in Twisted, where you have to define an application variable.
09:46	grignaak	_fogus_: what? you can put an & after the % ?
09:47	fliebel	_fogus_: Awesome! slaps forehead as well
09:47	_fogus_	grignaak: Yes. That is the #() way to say "var args"
09:47	jjido	/msg nickserv
09:47	LauJensen	_fogus_: Did you get my contribution to @learnclojure ?
09:47	_fogus_	Ooooo. That gives me an idea for a @learnclojure tweet
09:48	bobo_	i didnt know about @learnclojure!
09:48	_fogus_	LauJensen: I have not checked yet. I still haven't gotten the hang of managing multiple twitter accounts
09:48	fliebel	follows learnclojure
09:49	jjido	test: idiot
09:49	LauJensen	_fogus_: It was just an attempt to make people coming from Perl a little more comfortable: http://twitter.com/LauJensen/status/24654495072
09:50	_fogus_	LauJensen: Love the use of commas
09:50	LauJensen	_fogus_: yea, its artistic :)
09:50	jjido	can you make it more obfuscated
09:51	LauJensen	not without sacrificing elegance
09:52	jsanda	hey everyone, can someone tell me how can i check to see if a var has a root binding? when i call bound? an exception is thrown
09:52	jjido	I don't even know what !- is
09:52	chouser	!-?> is defined right there
09:52	fliebel	jjido: I think that is just a normal variable
09:52	chouser	LauJensen: that's really horrible. Shame on you. And ... congrats, I think.
09:52	LauJensen	chouser: hehe :()
09:53	chouser	letfn, so !-?> is a normal local function
09:53	LauJensen	!-?> is factorial
09:54	jsanda	and if done, (declare myvar), how can i set the root binding? i just noticed the docs mention that set! cannot be used to set the root binding
09:57	vu3rdd	LauJensen: Obfuscated Clojure contest?
09:58	LauJensen	vu3rdd: Dont know if its a contenst. Just wanted to attract a few more Perl developers to Clojure, I dont think we dont enough advertising for that group
09:58	LauJensen	s/contenst/contest
09:58	vu3rdd	:-)
09:58	LauJensen	s/dont/do
09:58	LauJensen	I should get a new keyboard
10:02	bobo_	would a twitter clone be a good webapp to use for benchmarking?
10:03	fliebel	bobo_: What do you want to benchmark?
10:03	bobo_	performance of clojure web stack, or something like that. Havent set a real goal
10:03	LauJensen	_fogus_: haha, #eyeshurt :)
10:04	LauJensen	bobo_: Why not just serve a single static page which pulls some data from a fast db and then hammer it with ab or some other stresstest util
10:05	fliebel	bobo_: Yea, I think any real-life app would do. Nice thing for the Twitter clone is that you can compare to StatusNet and Twitter.
10:05	bobo_	i think i already have a twitter clone aswell, thats why i thought about that
10:05	LauJensen	s/static/dynamic/
10:05	sexpbot	<LauJensen> bobo_: Why not just serve a single dynamic page which pulls some data from a fast db and then hammer it with ab or some other stresstest util
10:05	bobo_	with redis as backend
10:06	bobo_	but static page can be intresting aswell
10:06	bobo_	then it is easier to try other languages aswell
10:14	jjido	,(let [n 4] (-> n dec))
10:14	clojurebot	3
10:15	jjido	,(-> 3 dec)
10:15	clojurebot	2
10:15	chouser	,(-> 3 inc inc inc)
10:15	clojurebot	6
10:16	jjido	how about ->>?
10:16	LauJensen	isnt it -?>> ?
10:17	LauJensen	its something lpetit cooked up IIRC
10:17	jjido	you used ->> in the twitter post
10:18	LauJensen	ooh :) I thought you were asking about -?>>
10:19	LauJensen	->> threads as last argument, -> as first
10:19	sexpbot	=> #<core$_GT_ clojure.core$_GT_@36f7a0>
10:19	LauJensen	(-> 5 (/ 2))
10:19	LauJensen	,(-> 5 (/ 2))
10:19	clojurebot	5/2
10:19	LauJensen	,(->> 5 (/ 2))
10:19	clojurebot	2/5
10:22	jjido	,(->> 5 (/ 2) (+ 1))
10:22	clojurebot	7/5
10:24	LauJensen	,(->> 5 (/ 2) inc str reverse (apply str))
10:24	clojurebot	"5/7"
10:26	jjido	lol. I was able to undo your post now.
10:40	LauJensen	? :)
10:41	LauJensen	oh, you de-scrambled it you mean ?
10:43	bobo_	how do i enlive (select a link with class "class"? tried everything i could think off
10:43	LauJensen	bobo_: [:a.class]
10:45	bobo_	ah, its ajax that fools me
10:58	chouser	breaking changes to the contrib build have cost me at least as much time as breaking changes to the clojure language itself.
10:59	Raynes	Same with me and Dominos' new pizza recipe.
11:00	chouser	hehe, er, what?
11:01	Raynes	It was a bad joke. Forgive me, I just woke up.
11:01	Raynes	:>
11:02	chouser	:-)
11:03	kjeldahl	,(doc doseq)
11:04	Raynes	sdeobald: I shot you a message on github about running tryc.
11:04	AWizzArd	chouser: Contribs breaks were much worse for me, probably because they occur very regularily.
11:04	kjeldahl	From the doseq docs: Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with
11:04	kjeldahl	bindings and filtering as provided by "for". Does not retain
11:04	kjeldahl	the head of the sequence. Returns nil.
11:05	kjeldahl	Can anybody tell me what the "Does not retain the head of the sequence" means here?
11:05	bhenry	any of the rubylearning clojure for beginners class instructors on here ?
11:05	AWizzArd	duck-streams is suddenly renamed, then renamed again with some functions removed, http-agent disappeared completely, now Contrib is split up into a million pieces, etc.
11:05	Raynes	Doesn't keep the sequence in memory.
11:05	Raynes	bhenry: Whatcha need?
11:06	kjeldahl	Eh?
11:06	chouser	AWizzArd: hm, good point. I wasn't even thinking of half of those. I was referring mostly to the ant->maven switch and then the recent splitting
11:06	sdeobald	Raynes: Just woke up and saw that -- thanks.
11:07	bhenry	kjeldahl i think it means for every time body is executed the previous results of body are ignored/unavailable/garbage collected.
11:07	Raynes	kjeldahl: If you hold onto the head of a sequence, it keeps it from being garbage collected.
11:07	chouser	kjeldahl: if any part of the code keeps a reference to the head of a seq while something else walks it, all of the values of the seq from the head to the current walk position will be kept in memory
11:08	bhenry	rubylearning.org isn't working for me. i had just made a double post, and i'm wondering if my "Hour to edit" timeframe will expire before the site comes back up
11:08	Raynes	bhenry: It appears to be working for me.
11:08	Raynes	$ping rubylearning.org
11:08	chouser	kjeldahl: the docs for doseq are simply saying it will not kee a reference to the head, in contrast with for example doall.
11:08	sexpbot	Raynes: Ping completed in 0 seconds.
11:10	Raynes	bhenry: I'm not sure if I can delete your second post or not, but I'll check if you want.
11:11	apgwoz	does anyone know when an agenda for clojure conj is likely to be released?
11:12	bhenry	i can ping it, but it just hangs. it might be my computer now that i see hwo wacky my chat client is.
11:12	bhenry	Raynes: the first one needs to be deleted
11:12	bhenry	i'm going to restart, it may be my computer
11:12	Raynes	bhenry: Is that the shorter or the longer one?
11:12	bhenry	i didn't think the first one went through and added things. so the shorter one should be deleted
11:13	Raynes	Ah, yes.
11:13	Raynes	Deleted.
11:13	chouser	apgwoz: I've heard rumors the topics are picked. I don't know if timing or order has been. All that suggests "pretty soon" to me, but ... shrug
11:13	bhenry	thanks!
11:13	jfields	I need to send a snapshot request for data. If anyone requests that data before the snapshot returns I want to wait for 30 seconds and then throw an exception. I know how to do this with latches, but what's the clojure way you'd go about this?
11:14	jfields	(I only throw the exception if the response isn't returned within the 30 seconds)
11:16	chouser	jfields: clojure's reference types aren't really for workflow tasks. what you want to do may be best handled (currently, anyway) with java.utils.concurrent stuff
11:17	kjeldahl	bhenry/chouser: Thanks. I'm struggling with a NPE in after a doseq finishes...
11:17	kjeldahl	bhenry chouser: Thanks. I'm struggling with a NPE in after a doseq finishes...
11:17	sdeobald	jfields: oh, hi.
11:18	jfields	chouser, cool. thanks
11:18	jfields	sdeobald, hello.
11:18	chouser	kjeldahl: doseq does return nil, so be careful how you use that return value.
11:18	sdeobald	jfields: I hope you're having a beautiful day at work! Say hello to the good people there for me. And give Nate a kiss.
11:19	kjeldahl	chouser: Thanks. I don't use it though. It's inside a normal sequence of forms.
11:20	jfields	sdeobald, will do.
11:20	kjeldahl	chouser: Runs one time through (there's one item in the sequence I'm processing) - all the way through, and crashes with NPE when done.
11:20	apgwoz	chouser: awesome! i look forward to it regardless, but in a discussion now with someone who doesn't wanna go without having some idea what's happening
11:20	chouser	kjeldahl: stack traces are usually quite helpful in tracking down NPEs
11:21	chouser	apgwoz: sure, I understand.
11:21	kjeldahl	chouser: Points to the innermost form (a logging statement). Replacing the logging statement with nil gives the same error though.
11:21	Raynes	I'm going just to meet chouser. <3
11:21	chouser	apgwoz: of course, I would be at least as happy to go to a two-day event with all these people if there were no talks at all.
11:22	apgwoz	well, Raynes, I'm going to meet you
11:22	Raynes	Aw. <3
11:22	chouser	heck, I'd go if we were all going to be working in a box factory for two days.
11:22	chouser	I'm going to meet _fogus_
11:23	apgwoz	chouser: my thoughts exactly. i know for sure i'll obtain enough useful information just from talking to people to make it worth my companies dime :)
11:23	Raynes	I have never seen his face before. My motivation is slightly fueled by my curiosity.
11:23	chouser	Raynes: whose face?
11:23	Raynes	_fogus_:
11:24	apgwoz	chouser: fogus i'd guess
11:24	Raynes	Minus the colon.
11:24	apgwoz	the picture on his website is of him in a mask
11:24	chouser	ah. he's got pictures up if you look around.
11:24	apgwoz	who is michael fogus
11:24	chouser	of course that would ruin the surprise.
11:24	apgwoz	exactly
11:24	Raynes	Indeed.
11:24	chouser	well, you've seen the cover of the book, right?
11:24	apgwoz	is that fogus?
11:25	apgwoz	i didn't think he wore a top hat--just a mask
11:26	dpritchett	Did we ever find out who wrote the mystery foreword to JoC?
11:27	_fogus_	I am wearing a top hat right now
11:27	Raynes	I'm wearing a fedora. And a _fogus_ mask.
11:27	chouser	dpritchett: I heard today he's got writer's block, so we may never know...
11:28	kjeldahl	Is there an implicit "do" in the true part of an if statement?
11:28	chouser	kjeldahl: no
11:28	apgwoz	no
11:28	qbg	I have a CMath protocol, and I want the methods be hinted with the Complex deftype, but I want to inline implement CMath in the definition of Complex. Is there any way to do this?
11:28	apgwoz	kjeldahl: if you don't require an else, use `when`
11:28	apgwoz	that does have an implicit `do`
11:28	qbg	I can only get it to work by defining the protocol after the type, and then use extend-type
11:30	chouser	Complex implements CMath?
11:30	qbg	Yes
11:30	chouser	then dpm you should probably hint CMath instead?
11:31	chouser	then don't you want to hint CMath instead?
11:31	qbg	I'm hinting the methods in the CMath protocol definition
11:34	qbg	Hmm... Now that I think about it, I don't think I need a protocol here, as I don't see any other type/record implementing CMath
11:34	chouser	but you can't defined new methods in a deftype, can you?
11:34	chouser	only implement existing ones from some interface
11:35	qbg	I could use ordinary fns instead
11:35	kjeldahl	apgwoz: Thanks for the when hint. Code worked fine with it. Now I need to retrace my steps to figure out why an if with a do only worked once before NPE.
11:35	chouser	oh. well, prefer that any time it makes sense.
11:35	qbg	I wonder how much slower that would be though
11:36	apgwoz	kjeldahl: no problem.
11:36	chouser	qbg: probably not at all.
11:36	qbg	I could also use ^:static in 1.3
11:36	kjeldahl	As suspected; got confused with the parens again. A if - do works fine as long as I save on the parenthesis... :-)
11:37	chouser	qbg: if you use interop syntax to get at your deftype fields with no reflection and, right, :static fns
11:37	qbg	Naturally
11:38	Raynes	apgwoz: You have a severely intimidating last name.
11:38	apgwoz	Raynes: hahahaha. yes.
11:38	apgwoz	Guh-shev-itz, is how we pronounce it (gwozdziewycz for those that haven't bothered to look)
11:39	Raynes	Even Google said 'wut'.
11:39	apgwoz	(not that i expected anyone to look mind you)
11:39	apgwoz	Raynes: the great thing is that i'm the only Andrew Gwozdziewycz in the world. but not the only Andrew GwozdziewIcz
11:39	Raynes	Interesting. :o
11:40	apgwoz	but, that pronunciation is completely americanized, and Polish speakers always get upset with me
11:49	Raynes	apgwoz: At least you don't have a boring name.
11:49	apgwoz	Raynes: it does spark interesting (although also boring) conversation
11:49	chouser	so ... str-utils/partition is just completely gone now?
11:50	chouser	no string lib in contrib anymore and clojure.string doesn't have it.
12:01	hiredman	clojurebot: ping?
12:01	clojurebot	PONG!
12:06	ivey	Is there anything in contrib to turn an XML doc into a nested hash, without all the XML attr bits?
12:07	ivey	IE: taking an XML response from REST API and getting a hash that represents same data structure
12:08	chouser	tag names become map keys?
12:09	ivey	Yes
12:10	ivey	I have a first pass in my private utils repo but realized I may have duplicated effort
12:10	ivey	And have no idea
12:10	ivey	What to do with attrs vs text contents
12:11	Raynes	{:tag :attrs ... :contents ...}?
12:14	chouser	ivey: I'm not aware of such a thing
12:14	ivey	Cool. I'll clean mine up and add better tests.
12:14	chouser	ivey: you recursively convert the return value of xml/parse?
12:15	grignaak	ivey: attrs as meta-data ?
12:15	ivey	chouser: Correct, just pulling out the elements.
12:15	ivey	grignaak: Excellent. That's perfect.
12:15	chouser	grignaak: you're bound to lose data regardless if the input repeats tag names or such.
12:16	grignaak	true dat
12:16	grignaak	:(
12:16	ivey	repeated tag names turn into an array
12:16	chouser	vector I hope. :-)
12:17	ivey	Heh. My Ruby bias is showing. Indeed a vector.
12:17	amalloy	chouser: are repeated tag names allowed? i thought they weren't
12:17	amalloy	er, repeated attr names
12:17	chouser	amalloy: ah, no. But I was talking about tag names.
12:31	ivey	What's the best way to distribute a little util like that? Put it in my utils lib on GitHub/clojars
12:32	chouser	good question. interested in giving it to contrib?
12:33	ohpauleez	... and the crowd chanted to give it to contrib
12:33	ohpauleez	:)
12:34	chouser	friction 1: in your own separate lib, who will find it? Will they want to depend on your whole lib? Which verision -- will you do releases? Can they copy and paste into their own code -- but what about license?
12:35	chouser	friction 2: in contrib as a non committer, you still need a CA. And now you need to get time from a contrib committer to do anything -- submit the original, fix a bug, add a feature, etc.
12:35	Raynes	Oops.
12:36	Raynes	I meant to kill the local -dev instance. >.>
12:36	ohpauleez	Mr Houser is raising all the best points... The crowd goes wild and cheers for more
12:36	ivey	contrib sounds perfect
12:36	ohpauleez	I'm turning #clojure into an adventure game
12:36	chouser	friction 3: being a contrib committer is the least friction ...except I don't know what the process is to become one, so that itself is friction.
12:37	Raynes	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: clojure.core/nanoTime
12:37	Raynes	wut
12:37	ohpauleez	Contrib has won, the day is saved
12:38	chouser	of course regardless of how your code gets into contrib, it's at the mercy of all other contrib committers and may disappear or grow a new bug at any moment. :-)
12:38	ivey	That's what makes it fun
12:38	Raynes	What is clojure.core/nanoTime?
12:38	Raynes	It doesn't appear to exist.
12:39	chouser	Raynes: what's trying to use it?
12:39	Raynes	time
12:39	chouser	It's System/nanoTime
12:40	chouser	clojure.core/time is still using the old interop syntax.
12:40	scottj	Added arg list highlighting (ala slime w/ common lisp or eldoc) to swank-clojure last night: http://github.com/scottjad/swank-clojure/commit/2b8f6052552c062b7b42b655c46713d963374340
12:40	Raynes	I just looked at the macro expansion.
12:40	chouser	System/nanoTime === (. System (nanoTime))
12:40	Raynes	(. java.lang.System (clojure.core/nanoTime))
12:40	chouser	heh, yeah -- the compiler ignores the namespace (if any) of the method name
12:41	Raynes	How odd...
12:41	Raynes	Must be a clj-sandbox bug.
12:41	Raynes	:\
12:42	Raynes	I'm starting to consider just stealing clojurebot's sandbox.
12:42	Raynes	At least for now.
12:53	amalloy	scottj: what are the chances of getting slime to recognize (apply inc \|) and supply the parameters for inc instead of apply?
12:55	scottj	amalloy: hmm, I think it would be pretty easy
12:55	amalloy	cause it seems like that would be super-useful and nobody ever forgets the arguments to apply :)
12:56	scottj	well I'd have it still show args to apply when cursor is on apply
12:59	amalloy	sure of course
13:07	scottj	hmm, eldoc doesn't do that. does CL?
13:13	amalloy	yes
13:14	amalloy	M-x slime
13:14	amalloy	(apply 1+ \|
13:14	amalloy	(1+ arg0)
13:16	Raynes	-> (time (range 1 10000))
13:16	sexpbot	=> "Elapsed time: 0.934 msecs" (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 ... http://gist.github.com/
13:17	Raynes	Yes, yes. LauJensen will be pleased.
13:17	Raynes	Also, failgist...
13:17	Raynes	It shouldn't even try to gist something that large.
13:18	scottj	interesting, arglists and C-c C-d C-d appears broken for functions with =. not= actually shows for not, >= for >
13:18	amalloy	Raynes: very cool
13:19	Raynes	Actually, it doesn't seem to do that every time.
13:19	Raynes	-> (time (range 1 10000))
13:19	sexpbot	=> "Elapsed time: 0.858 msecs" (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 ...
13:19	Raynes	Weird!
13:19	Raynes	Only did it that one time.
13:19	Raynes	Moving on.
13:29	amalloy	anyone know how to get emacs to interact with the x copy/paste buffer?
13:30	amalloy	it's kinda a pain to mark with the keyboard and have to use the menubar to copy
13:30	scottj	maybe (setq x-select-enable-clipboard t)
13:32	chouser	"*p in vim :-)
13:34	amalloy	aha
13:35	amalloy	lovely. thanks scottj
13:35	amalloy	i wonder how it interacts with multiple entries in the kill buffer/ring/whatever it is
13:40	LauJensen	Raynes: Well done old friend :)
13:41	Raynes	LauJensen: Had to fix a bug in clj-sandbox to get there. :p
13:42	bhenry	any solid emacs configs for clojure code folding?
13:43	LauJensen	Hmmm, I had that a one point, forgot how though
13:43	LauJensen	And, didn't use it enough to keep it
13:46	bhenry	ideally the clickable area would be on the first line in the top level form. theoretically every line within the form after that should be indented. i'd like my emacs to have a bunch of lines like this: [+] (defn some-func …). then i can click on the plus to expand or collapse the forms i want to see or hide respectively.
13:52	jjido	,(doc deliver)
13:52	clojurebot	"([promise val]); Alpha - subject to change. Delivers the supplied value to the promise, releasing any pending derefs. A subsequent call to deliver on a promise will throw an exception."
13:54	amalloy	is clojure-bot clever enough to give up on @(promise)?
13:54	Raynes	Yes.
13:55	amalloy	woo go clojurebot. i always want to try breaking him, without the risk of actually breaking him. how can i get a local copy going?
13:56	Raynes	Uh, very, very carefully. It's a little tricky.
13:56	jjido	amalloy: you like to torture little animals?
13:56	jjido	;)
13:57	Raynes	-> @(promise)
13:57	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
13:57	Raynes	amalloy: You'd never break either of the bots with any sort of time thing. They both timeout.
13:58	Raynes	I doubt you'll break anyone's heart if you actually do manage to break it.
13:59	Raynes	At least, nobody has given sexpbot the courtesy of not breaking the running copy. ;)
14:00	Raynes	Especially _ato. He's destroyed sexpbot's security measures on a few occasions. <3
14:00	jjido	is it bad to use (future) even if I don't care about the return value? (doing deliver)
14:01	Raynes	The only time using future instead of starting a thread has ever bit me is when an exception was thrown and I never got to see it because I never tried to get it's return value.
14:02	LauJensen	jjido: future is fine if you dont care about the return
14:02	Raynes	Except if an exception is thrown.
14:02	jjido	I will resolve the promise anyway, and deliver is the last peration
14:03	jjido	operation in the task
14:05	dpritchett	I just noticed that node.js surpassed clojure on Google Trends for the first time at the end of August thanks to Node Knockout. I wonder if Clojure could have its own similar competition?
14:05	dpritchett	http://www.google.com/trends?q=node.js,+clojure&ctab=0&geo=all&date=mtd&sort=0
14:05	ohpauleez	How do you type hint a ref? I'm going to guess ^IRef
14:06	LauJensen	dpritchett: Good idea
14:06	ohpauleez	I also like that idea
14:06	dpritchett	Node Knockout seems to have been partially sponsored by Joyent, the employer of Node's creator Ryan Dahl.
14:07	ivey	Ry is such a cool dude
14:07	ivey	Worked with him on merb. He used to have a blog that was all little comics he drew about his day
14:08	LauJensen	Feb10 was good, http://www.statsaholic.com/scala-lang.org+bestinclass.dk+clojure.org :)
14:09	jjido	how do I get the promise value
14:10	jjido	I forgot
14:10	dpritchett	What was your biggest article in February, the Reddit clone or the language roundup?
14:10	LauJensen	Hmm, dont recall
14:11	amalloy	jjido: @promise-ref
14:11	dpritchett	What would we need infrastructure wise to put on a No.de -style competition? Heroku-style Clojure hosting seems like it would be a huge step forward for rapid prototyping and for adoption.
14:12	jjido	amalloy: clojure.core$promise cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IDeref
14:12	amalloy	works for me
14:13	amalloy	,(let [x (promise)] (deliver x 10) x)
14:13	clojurebot	#<core$promise$reify__5534@15e909c: 10>
14:13	chouser	dpritchett: I was pondering yesterday if it would be possible to build something like that on top of google app engine.
14:13	amalloy	,(let [x (promise)] (deliver x 10) @x)
14:13	clojurebot	10
14:14	chouser	ohpauleez: what Java method of a ref are you calling directly?
14:14	amalloy	jjido: you seem to have typed @promise
14:14	amalloy	that derefs the function promise, not the specific promise instance you created
14:14	ohpauleez	I'm passing in a ref that is alter'd
14:15	ohpauleez	intended to be done in a dosync, obv
14:15	ohpauleez	chouser: ^
14:15	chouser	but if you don't call a java method of it directly, you shouldn't need to hint
14:15	dpritchett	VMForce claims to be a Java cloud. I don't know that it actually exists or if it would be as flexible as Heroku though.
14:16	chouser	@x is no faster if x is hinted than if it is not
14:16	ohpauleez	ah, ok
14:16	ohpauleez	if x is a ref to a PersistentQueue... ?
14:17	chouser	(pop @x) still has no reflection
14:17	ohpauleez	ahh, ok, thanks
14:17	ohpauleez	I've just been getting in the habit of typing for clarity sake
14:18	amalloy	ohpauleez: tried turning on warn-on-reflection and running your function? seems silly to type-hint before you find out what the reflection issues are
14:18	chouser	hints only help avoid reflection, and reflection is only used on a direct interop call (Foo. bar) or (.foo bar) or (Foo/foo bar) where the types of the args involved are in sufficient doubt at compile time.
14:18	ohpauleez	right
14:19	amalloy	chouser: really? the compiler can always figure out what's going on in the absence of interop?
14:19	chouser	well, yes.
14:20	chouser	until :static fns it never had to.
14:20	chouser	because fns are not overloaded on arg type
14:21	amalloy	i see. that makes sense
14:22	chouser	and now with :static fns it does have to know the types of the formal args when compiling a fn call, but there's still no type-based overloading so it can figure out what it needs to easily with no type hints.
14:24	chouser	and prototype fns are special and achieve nearly raw method call speeds with runtime call-site caching rather than type knowledge at compile time.
14:24	LauJensen	Does anyone here have a snippet of a simple override of TableCellRenderer for JTable ?
14:24	chouser	LauJensen: I think so, hang on
14:24	LauJensen	chouser: prototype fns?
14:25	chouser	LauJensen: sorry, protocol fns. the fns generated by defprotocol
14:25	LauJensen	Thought so, just wondering if you had sneaked some new feature in
14:25	LauJensen	chouser: btw, did you blog about call-site caching yet?
14:27	chouser	LauJensen: http://gist.github.com/582903 TableCellRenderer]
14:27	chouser	nope, haven't blogged about anything in a while.
14:27	chouser	should I blog about call-site caching?
14:27	LauJensen	chouser: thanks alot, exactly what I was looking for
14:28	LauJensen	chouser: Yea, we talked about it a month or so ago, perhaps 2. We both thought it was a good idea
14:28	chouser	heh. oh!
14:30	jjido	my Internet time finished. I will catch up later.
14:31	edbond	why (read-line) immediately return nil?
14:35	scottj	cause it doesn't work in slime
14:57	edbond	scottj: is it possible to make it works?
15:00	LauJensen	edbond: just eval your code in the inferior-lisp buffer
15:13	scottj	FYI inferior-lisp will only be there with slime project M-x thing not lein
15:14	LauJensen	yea, I typically start my coding with M-x swank-clojure-project
15:15	scottj	is swank-clojure-project deprecated?
15:15	Raynes	swank-clojure.el is deprecated. I'm not sure where swank-clojure-project went.
15:16	LauJensen	Raynes: It just moved to a new maintainer. Its not deprecated
15:16	Raynes	deprecated or just optional. Not sure.
15:16	Raynes	Shouldn't put the cart before the horse.
15:16	LauJensen	Its always been optional
15:17	Raynes	I remember talk on the swank-clojure mailing list where it was said that swank-clojure.el was no longer needed and such, so my first reaction was "deprecated".
15:18	LauJensen	well, if you want you can run lein swank && slime-connect instead, but you miss out on the inferior lisp buffer, which truely sucks
15:18	LauJensen	Besides, its a small patch to make swank-clojure.el work with the new lib/dev/* structure
15:20	Raynes	I've always did the former.
15:20	Raynes	Not sure why I would want the inferior lisp buffer.
15:20	LauJensen	So you go check a console everytime you need to see output/traces from a thread?
15:21	Raynes	Uh... huh?
15:22	LauJensen	In case you haven't noticed, output to out and stacktraces etc from threads will only appear in inferior-lisp, not slime-repl. So when you need that info, I would think that it sucks to go out to a shell to see it
15:23	LauJensen	I usually have left buffer: code, right top: inferior lisp, right bottom: slime-repl
15:23	Raynes	Could you show me an example?
15:23	LauJensen	At least when Im doing threaded stuff
15:23	LauJensen	,(future (println "hi"))
15:23	clojurebot	#<core$future_call$reify__5492@1f16561: :pending>
15:23	LauJensen	That will print in inferior-lisp
15:24	LauJensen	And besides. Its great whenever you start hacking, just to open project.clj, hit M-x swank-clojure-project and off you go
15:24	Raynes	Fair enough. I've never noticed that before.
15:24	Raynes	I don't guess I've ever wanted output from threads before.
15:25	shoover	LauJensen: you know about slime-redirect-inferior-output?
15:25	scottj	the problem isn't seeing output, it's easy enough to have a term where you would otherwise have a buffer, the problem is with lein afaik if started with swank you can't give it input at the terminal, whereas you can type in inferior-lisp. this is needed in the case of read-line, swing stuff occassionally I think, and maybe other cases
15:25	LauJensen	shoover: nope
15:25	shoover	run it, and you won't need to look in inferior-lisp
15:25	Raynes	Oh cool.
15:25	LauJensen	scottj: good point about input
15:26	shoover	but I can't figure out how to get the same behavior with lein swank, it only works with inferior-lisp
15:26	LauJensen	shoover: cool
15:26	shoover	so it still supports swank-clojure-project :)
15:27	apgwoz	anyone using ant for builds and using emacs?
15:27	Raynes	The latter.
15:27	LauJensen	apgwoz: of course not, we're all rational people here :)
15:27	Raynes	(:
15:28	apgwoz	LauJensen: my company uses ant and java (no clojure -- yet).
15:28	LauJensen	ant and maven are invented by dentists
15:28	apgwoz	anyway, point being, i wrote some wrappers for ant around compilation mode that might be helpful to folks
15:28	shoover	LauJensen: however, I recently saw some interesting elisp to launch lein swank within emacs, which would retain the ability to just switch buffers and see the output
15:28	clojurebot	emacs is best configured for Clojure with instructions at http://technomancy.us/126
15:29	LauJensen	shoover: whats the point when we have swank-clojure-project?
15:29	LauJensen	except having less stuff to maintain
15:29	apgwoz	shoover: i saw that as well, but haven't yet integrated it
15:29	LauJensen	but elisp just sits there
15:29	shoover	LauJensen: right
15:37	shoover	LauJensen: I can think of one advantage, and that's if you hook up the lein run plugin to launch the swank server and run some initialization code (start a jetty server, etc). This lein elisp code I saw could easily run that, whereas I'm not sure how you would inject all that behavior with swank-clojure-project
15:46	shoover	Whenever I lose my connection I end up getting a different nick, and then I can't change my nick without leaving the channel. What am I doing wrong?!
15:52	hiredman	#clojure has some dumb mode set on the channel so you cannnot change nicks while in it
15:53	Raynes	I know.
15:53	Raynes	It's horrible.
15:53	technomancy	shoover: you can register your fallback nick. I agree it's very annoying.
15:53	Raynes	:(
15:53	Raynes	#concatenative has the same thing set, so if I accidentally join without identifying, I have to leave both channels.
15:58	Chousuke	you don't need to actually register two nicknames, you can link an alt to the existing registration
15:59	sthuebner	Chousuke: how would you do that?
15:59	Chousuke	/msg nickserv help :)
15:59	chouser	hiredman: can we turn off that mode?
15:59	chouser	I don't remember having any real problems with spam or anything before it was changed for us
16:00	sthuebner	Chousuke: ah, nickserver! never mind
16:01	hiredman	chouser: no idea
16:03	technomancy	what's the status on ticket #315?
16:03	technomancy	would really love to see that applied so everyone could reduce AOT usage
16:03	technomancy	considering it's a patch to clojure.main submitted by the author of clojure.main it seems like a no-brainer.
16:05	lpetit	ticket 322 is important too, regarding AOT compilation
16:06	cemerick	lpetit: I saw you're now a speaker at the conj, congrats! :-)
16:08	lpetit	cemerick: yeah, thanks, it's so impressive that I kind of haven't totally realized yet the chance I have !
16:08	cemerick	technomancy: I'm mostly hoping all of them will be :-)
16:09	technomancy	well... I only have time to prepare one talk. =)
16:09	technomancy	but I'd love to hear three apiece from everyone else
16:09	lpetit	indedd ticket 315 seems both interesting and low hanging fruit
16:09	lpetit	so do I !
16:10	chouser	technomancy: heh
16:11	chouser	I'm already doing a different one for Strange Loop.
16:12	lpetit	Soo many different "command line/project management" tools for clojure : maven, ant, cake, cljr, lein, gradle, polyglot maven ! What a hell for a poor IDE dev !
16:13	cemerick	lpetit: some very wise bets will have to be made
16:13	lpetit	cemerick: :-/
16:13	lpetit	cemerick: talking about IDE features ... :-)
16:14	lpetit	cemerick: PING !
16:14	cemerick	hah
16:14	cemerick	Patience, patience :-)
16:14	cemerick	It's been a busy couple of weeks
16:14	_fogus_	technomancy: 3!?!
16:16	technomancy	_fogus_: oh right; only 2 abstracts were required. I had a third, so I threw it in there.
16:17	cemerick	_fogus_: I'd happily do 3. Hoping to, actually.
16:17	cemerick	The fourth I'm not so excited about, but it's a common pain/interest point.
16:17	Raynes	technomancy: Is 315 the one about adding a way for clojure.main to execute a -main function in a provided namespace to avoid AOT compilation just for executable jars?
16:17	Raynes	I was highly disappointed that that one didn't make it into 1.2
16:17	technomancy	Raynes: yeah
16:18	_fogus_	I could talk about the 2 that I submitted, but for the 3rd I'd have to pull out contracts or something more exciting, like my cats
16:19	Chouser1	Hello?
16:19	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline Chouser1
16:19	Raynes	o.o
16:19	Chouser1	I'm not a girl!
16:20	nakkaya22223333	testing
16:20	jjido	Hello?
16:20	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline jjido
16:20	jjido	lol
16:20	@chouser	ok, we'll try that for a while.
16:21	shoover	chouser: on behalf of users of finicky ISPs and freenode servers everywhere, thank you
16:21	@chouser	shoover: :-)
16:22	@chouser	shoover: sorry about the twitter search brokenness, too. Afraid I don't know how to proceed on that one.
16:22	shoover	chouser: not your problem. I've filed multiple bug reports to no avail
16:22	chouser	why should they care, after all. You're only a user, not a customer.
16:22	jjido	,(let [x promise] (future (apply (partial deliver x) 3)) @x)
16:22	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$promise cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IDeref
16:22	jjido	why?
16:22	clojurebot	why not?
16:23	chouser	(promise) not promise
16:23	jjido	aaah
16:24	shoover	chouser: according to al3x, they have ample resources now, so I'll expect a fix any day now
16:24	jjido	,(let [x (promise)] (future (apply (partial deliver x) 3)) @x)
16:24	chouser	heh
16:24	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
16:24	chouser	[3] not 3
16:24	jjido	,(let [x (promise)] (future (apply (partial deliver x) [3])) @x)
16:24	clojurebot	3
16:25	Raynes	-> (let [x (promise)] (future (apply (partial deliver x) [3])) @x)
16:25	sexpbot	java.lang.SecurityException: Code did not pass sandbox guidelines: (#'clojure.core/future-call)
16:25	Raynes	Doh
16:26	Raynes	-> (let [x (promise)] (future (apply (partial deliver x) [3])) @x)
16:26	sexpbot	=> 3
16:26	Raynes	That's more like it.
16:27	jjido	what did you do?
16:27	LauJensen	shoover: Pretty simple to make swank-clojure-project eval your core.clj or something like that, if you want to boot a jetty
16:27	dnolen	,(let [x (promise) y (promise)] (future (doall (map deliver [x y] [3 4]))) (+ @x @y))
16:27	clojurebot	7
16:27	Raynes	I committed a fix and then used various bot commands to pull the git repo on my VPS and reload the plugins so that the commit would take effect.
16:28	Raynes	Well, two bot commands.
16:28	jjido	Raynes: funny you can do that in so less time
16:28	nakkaya22223333	testing
16:28	jjido	memo: when you do CPS, don't forget trampoline in the parallel threads.
16:28	Raynes	It's a pretty fast process. I already had the relevant file open in Emacs, and with magit, committing and pushing was a breeze.
16:29	jjdkdk	hello
16:29	jjido	jjdkdk: are we related?
16:29	nakkaya22223333	still
16:30	jjdkdk	jjido: nah, just random
16:30	Raynes	~max
16:30	clojurebot	max people is 313
16:30	Raynes	Whoa.
16:31	jjido	not far
16:31	jjido	Raynes: is that the upper limit?
16:31	Raynes	Yes.
16:31	nakkaya22223333	still testing
16:32	Raynes	nakkaya22223333: What exactly are you testing?
16:32	Raynes	My patience? :p
16:32	nakkaya22223333	http://nakkaya.com/2010/02/10/a-simple-clojure-irc-client/
16:32	Raynes	I should really do something like that with Irclj as an example.
16:33	nakkaya22223333	from slime repl, sorry Raynes
16:33	jjido	,(Integer/parseInt nil)
16:33	clojurebot	java.lang.NumberFormatException: null
16:33	Raynes	nakkaya22223333: It's cool. <3
16:33	jjido	is there apply-if-not-nil?
16:35	nakkaya22223333	works good once I figured out that sending a message is actually a privmsg to #clojure with a : in front of the text
16:35	nakkaya22223333	and that my message doesn't show in swank
16:35	jjido	,(Integer/parseInt (or nil "5"))
16:35	clojurebot	5
16:37	nakkaya22223333	later, thanks
16:39	Raynes	jjido: Also, see clojure.contrib.core/-?>>
16:39	jjido	,(-?>> Integer/parseInt (nil))
16:39	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: -?>> in this context
16:41	Raynes	-> (clojure.contrib.core/-?>> nil Integer/parseInt)
16:41	sexpbot	=> nil
16:44	lancepantz	we've got our first los angeles clojure meetup tonight if anyone is in the area http://bit.ly/9F9DJp
16:45	Raynes	lancepantz: Sure, I'm only like on the other side of the country. ;)
16:53	jjido	Could someone try that code on a big vector of unsorted numbers? http://pastebin.ca/1942389
16:53	jjido	if you have several cores
16:54	jjido	it takes a number, 0, 1, 2... default 5
16:59	dnolen	for $0.68 an hour you can also try it yrself on an 8-core box on Amazon EC2 ;)
16:59	dnolen	jjido: ^
17:00	jjido	dnolen: ok ;)
17:01	LauJensen	Good night Clojure, whereever you are
17:02	grignaak	dnolen: you can get boxes that are $0.02/per hour new
17:02	lancepantz	an 8 core one?
17:03	lancepantz	or are you talking about the micro instances
17:05	jjido	the built-in sort function is almost 10x faster on my computer, and using 2 threads does not help :(
17:07	tomoj	jjido: the built-in uses java.util.Arrays/sort
17:07	tomoj	so don't feel bad
17:15	jjido	tomoj: I threw in more iteration and I look better (2.5 times slower)
17:18	jjido	is there a built-in (fn [_] nil)?
17:19	tomoj	well.. (constantly nil)
17:19	lpetit	,(clojure-version)
17:19	clojurebot	"1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
17:19	lpetit	clojurebot still SNAPSHOT 1.2 ?
17:19	Raynes	-> (clojure-version)
17:19	sexpbot	=> "1.2.0"
17:20	jjido	thanks tomoj
17:20	lpetit	Raynes: thx
17:21	jjido	it is not faster than identity, I wondered
17:26	alpheus	I just registered for the clojure-conj
17:32	jjido	I am on a Core2 Duo Mac. When I run the linear version I see both cores taken up
17:32	jjido	is that magic?
17:48	ohpauleez	is it poor style to use ^{} to tag your return value with metadata?
17:49	ohpauleez	should (with-meta) be preferred?
17:49	ohpauleez	jjido: The JVM will consume both cores (I believe)
17:50	jjido	ohpauleez: I see, the JIT does that?
17:50	ohpauleez	I believe so, but don't quote me on that
17:52	hiredman	^{} tags the form read in with metadata
17:53	hiredman	if the return value is not the result of the reader reading, but the result of a function call you must use with-meta
17:56	jjido	ohpauleez: yep, with -Xint the parallel version is 2x faster than the linear one
17:57	ohpauleez	hiredman: thanks man
18:10	arkh	When I run (println ((clojure.java.shell/sh "ls") :out)) from a clj file calling clojure.main, the program hangs. Any idea what's blocking? The same works fine from a repl.
18:14	peepz	hello everyone
18:14	peepz	I am new to clojure and I have a few problems when I try to use PI: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: pi in this context (NO_SOURCE_FILE:1)
18:14	peepz	anyone know what I am doing wrong?
18:14	dnolen	,Math/PI
18:14	clojurebot	3.141592653589793
18:15	dnolen	,(+ 1 Math/PI)
18:15	clojurebot	4.141592653589793
18:15	peepz	dnolen: looks good my friend, now how do I do it on my machine ?
18:15	dnolen	peepz: copy and paste? :)
18:15	peepz	well, what I am trying to run is: (time (doall (map pi '(200000 200000))))
18:16	ohpauleez	peepz: that 'pi' needs to be 'Math/PI'
18:16	tomoj	uhh.. no
18:16	ohpauleez	but also, you can't do that
18:16	dnolen	peepz: PI isn't a function, it's a constant, what are you trying todo there.
18:16	dnolen	?
18:17	peepz	I found that code online and it works on other machines.
18:17	Raynes	No it doesn't. Not unless pi is defined as a function.
18:17	peepz	ok ..sorry
18:17	peepz	how do I make sure I have contrib loaded correcly?
18:17	dnolen	peepz: perhaps because the code you found defines pi as a function of some sort.
18:17	jjido	arkh: maybe you need (shutdown-agents)?
18:18	peepz	dnolen: : ok
18:18	dnolen	peepz: try (require '[clojure.contrib.repl-utils :as repl-utils]) or something similar.
18:18	arkh	jjido: thanks - checking
18:18	ohpauleez	jjido: arkh does the shell stuff use agents?
18:18	peepz	dnolen: output: nil
18:18	dnolen	peepz: that's what you want to see.
18:18	arkh	(shutdown-agents) is what I needed. Weird.
18:18	peepz	so im good?
18:19	dnolen	peepz: yes, you'll get an exception if something went wrong.
18:19	ohpauleez	peepz: you should look at and play with http://github.com/relevance/labrepl
18:19	peepz	dnolen: ok thanks for all the help and thanks for a great channel.. I might hang out here for a while while I learn this:)
18:19	ohpauleez	arkh: weird, that means the shell stuff is using an agent
18:19	sthuebner	it seems, I cannot redefine a dispatch-fn on a multimethod. whatever I try, the original one sticks to the method. my fault?
18:19	dnolen	peepz: try this, (repl-utils/source map)
18:20	peepz	dnolen: I am planning to to this tutorial: http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html .... do you have anything you would recommend to a beginner that wants to learn clojure?
18:20	peepz	dnolen: it returned a lazy sequence of some sort.
18:21	arkh	the source here just shows it using futures, no other threading: http://bit.ly/aXsmzV
18:21	jjido	ohpauleez: if I was to write the shell stuff I would use an agent too (though Clojure should not require shutdown-agents by default IMHO)
18:21	ohpauleez	jjido: totally, I agree with that. I also think it shouldn't require the shutdown
18:22	raek	sthuebner: you need to unmap the old var manually. since 1.2, defmulti has defonce semantics
18:22	raek	since when you used to redefine a multi method, all the previous implementations are gone
18:22	arkh	ahhh ... (future) uses clojure.lang.Agent
18:23	jjido	arkh: yes
18:23	raek	...which used to be a bigger pain that having to manually unmap the old multimethod
18:23	raek	sthuebner: (ns-unmap 'foo.bar.my.namespace 'my-multimethod)
18:24	ohpauleez	jjido: I might also use futures, and deref them
18:24	sthuebner	raek: OK I see. this unmaps the whole multimethod
18:24	sthuebner	?
18:24	raek	yes
18:24	raek	you need to re-evaluate all the defmethod forms
18:24	sthuebner	sure
18:24	ohpauleez	arkh: Are you using agents somewhere else in your code?
18:25	arkh	I'm not - only thing in the .clj file is (println ((clojure.java.shell/sh "ls") :out))
18:26	ohpauleez	so weird, you shouldn't have to do that call
18:27	arkh	it makes me wonder if threads are going to hang out there, e.g. if I call (sh) 5000 times, is it going to leak memory etc.?
18:27	ohpauleez	instead of printing right away, putting it in a let and printing that
18:27	arkh	well ... I guess it would leak after the first time if that were the case ...
18:27	ohpauleez	and see if it hangs
18:27	arkh	k
18:28	peepz	for the people that code in bash, what editor do you use for clojure?
18:28	jjido	peepz: I like that tutorial
18:29	peepz	jjido: ya? i will go with it then..thanks!
18:29	arkh	this still hangs (let [s (clojure.java.shell/sh "ls")] (prn s))
18:29	peepz	is clojure used in android applications?
18:30	arkh	peepz: there's some runtime problems when running clojure against dalvik (what android uses as a virtual machine)
18:30	dnolen	peepz: there's also some good books out now - Programming Clojure, Joy of Clojure, Clojure in Action. If you're a bash user, people seem to like VimClojure
18:30	ohpauleez	arkh: hmm, let me play around
18:30	peepz	ok thanks ill get that.
18:32	arkh	I have to go - have a good night/morning/afternoon all
18:33	peepz	u too thanks
18:35	ohpauleez	peepz: most editors have good support, so use whatever you're most comfortable with. A few of us use VimClojure. I think more of the community uses Emacs
18:35	ohpauleez	but someone in here or in the Google Group will be able to help out with editor configuration issues
18:37	peepz	ohpauleez: : thanks!!!
18:37	peepz	ohpauleez: I will hold of with setting up vimclojure until I have my first script coded and working
18:39	jjido	if I have two promises p and q, can I tell Clojure to hold on realising either until both are informed?
18:40	raek	don't think so... maybe some other construct is a better fit
18:40	raek	like BlockingQueue
18:40	peepz	I currently run clojure using this command: I want to load both jar files at launch: java -cp /usr/share/java/clojure.jar:clojure-contrib.jar clojure.main $1
18:41	peepz	how do I run that command and also execute a script with parameters? assume the function takes 1 parameter and is called namer
18:41	jjido	peepz: Windows?
18:41	peepz	ubuntu bash
18:42	raek	peepz: I guess you have alread heard this, but it tends to be easier to use a build tool (leiningen, cljr, cake) to start clojure with the correct classpath
18:42	peepz	raek: is that for ubuntu?
18:42	raek	all those work for ubuntu
18:42	peepz	hmm... ok..which one should I install/start of with?
18:43	raek	leiningen and cake are project based (essential if your program is larger than one file), and cljr is a simple way to just start a repl
18:43	peepz	cljr it is!
18:43	raek	cljr makes clojure work much like python and ruby
18:44	dnolen	jjido: ? Clojure doesn't try to realize the value of promises, it just blocks until the values are delivered. You might want to try delay, dereferencing a delay will force the computation.
18:44	raek	you can install libraries in the system and start a repl that can use all those
18:44	peepz	but I think I got the classpaths right already? how canI check in repl?
18:44	raek	in the poject based approach, all projects can have their own set of dependencies (and versions of them!) independently
18:45	raek	peepz: are the clojure and contrib jars in the same directory?
18:45	peepz	yes
18:45	raek	peepz: (println (seq (.getURLs (java.lang.ClassLoader/getSystemClassLoader))))
18:45	peepz	nil
18:46	raek	then it should be "java -cp '/usr/share/java/clojure.jar:/usr/share/java/clojure-contrib.jar' clojure.main"
18:46	peepz	so the output nil means its not working?
18:47	raek	ah, are you using slime and emacs, or some other editor-repl thingy=
18:47	raek	try just (seq (.getURLs (java.lang.ClassLoader/getSystemClassLoader)))
18:47	jjido	dnolen: but if p is delivered, it is dereferenced in the waiting thread right? Then q blocks until it is delivered
18:47	raek	your out might be connected to the wrong terminal
18:48	raek	println always return nil
18:49	raek	peepz: {:cljr "http://github.com/liebke/cljr", :leiningen "http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen", :cake "http://github.com/ninjudd/cake"}
18:49	kjeldahl	Ready for a clojure quiz? ;-) How to make ([1 9] [1 8] [2 7] [1 6] [2 6) => ([1 9] [2 7]) . Basically, extract only the first vector in a sorted list based on the first number in the vector.
18:50	jjido	dnolen: mmh I suppose a promise is ever delivered only once.
18:52	peepz	raek: i got this output: (#<URL file:/usr/share/java/clojure-1.0.0.jar> #<URL file:/usr/share/java/clojure-contrib.jar>)
18:53	raek	jjido: you could try to invert the situation and use one BlockingQueue that the two threads put objects into. a thread that tries to take an object from it will block until someone puts an object into it
18:54	raek	peepz: looks like clojure and clojure.contrib are good to go (assuming the filenames are correct)
18:54	peepz	ok great thanks!
18:54	clojurebot	() invokes the form inside, but there is an implied str call. The semantics are different inside the interpolated string, necessarily so.
18:54	grignaak	,(seq (reduce (fn [m [a b]] (if (contains? m a) m (assoc m a b))) (sorted-map) [[1 2] [1 3] [2 4] [2 6]]))
18:54	clojurebot	([1 2] [2 4])
18:54	peepz	raek: now how do I run a clojure script?
18:55	kjeldahl	Thanks.
18:55	raek	peepz: it is described here: http://clojure.org/repl_and_main
18:55	peepz	got it thanks!
18:56	raek	looks like you only need to pass the script file after the "clojure.main" argument to java
18:56	kjeldahl	grignaak: Hm. You're changing the order aren't you. I need the items in the same order as in the original sequence.
18:56	raek	I dunno if that requires the script file in question to be on the class path too...
18:57	kjeldahl	,(seq (reduce (fn [m [a b]] (if (contains? m a) m (assoc m a b))) (sorted-map) [[2 4] [1 3] [1 2] [2 6]]))
18:57	clojurebot	([1 3] [2 4])
18:57	raek	(the build tools simplify the classpath management very much)
18:57	grignaak	kjeldahl: hmm. I saw the "sorted list" and I assumed
18:58	kjeldahl	grignaak: Hey, I'm in no position to demand anything. I meant the original list was sorted.
18:58	grignaak	how is that sorted?
18:59	kjeldahl	Well, there is a score in the vector which is not shown or used in my example. Including it would actually make your solution work, assuming it would be sorted by the score.
18:59	kjeldahl	Thanks, I think I can piece it together from here.
19:05	kjeldahl	,(doc nth)
19:05	clojurebot	"([coll index] [coll index not-found]); Returns the value at the index. get returns nil if index out of bounds, nth throws an exception unless not-found is supplied. nth also works for strings, Java arrays, regex Matchers and Lists, and, in O(n) time, for sequences."
19:14	grignaak	kjeldahl: this one is not as elegant, but it meets the requirements : http://gist.github.com/583347
19:17	kjeldahl	grignaak: Excellent, thanks. Still struggling at my end. Figure sorted-map-by would work, but it does not of course as I want to sort on something be pointed to and not the key (if I get it right).
19:18	grignaak	yep, didn't see an arg for a custom comparator
19:18	kjeldahl	Although not as elegant, your latest solution seems more adaptable to what I'm looking for right now. I'll give it a go. Thanks again.
19:22	peepz	http://pastebin.com/m1EnaPT3
19:22	peepz	shouldnt that give me an output??
19:22	kjeldahl	grignaak: Worked perfectly. Thanks!
19:23	raek	peepz: no, since hello is never called
19:23	peepz	wow ok
19:23	peepz	so the arguments is the actual procedure call and its paramters
19:23	raek	you'd have to add a (hello (first command-line-args))
19:24	raek	no, the arguments just end up in the var command-line-args
19:24	peepz	... (hello(first jesus))
19:24	peepz	didnt work
19:25	jjido	type error? ["jesus"]
19:25	peepz	hhehe
19:25	raek	there is no main function as in C
19:26	raek	it simply runs all the code in the script
19:26	raek	the defn form is just a function definition
19:26	raek	you need to add an actual call to the function
19:26	peepz	so then how do I execute that peiece of code
19:26	clojurebot	peepcode is a commercial screencast series; see the Clojure one at http://peepcode.com/products/functional-programming-with-clojure by technomancy
19:26	peepz	ok
19:26	raek	you add it after the defn
19:27	raek	http://pastebin.com/ZQYYFS8m
19:27	raek	(doc command-line-args)
19:27	clojurebot	"; A sequence of the supplied command line arguments, or nil if none were supplied"
19:28	peepz	ohh thanks!
19:28	raek	hrm, make that (apply str (interpose \space command-line-args))
19:29	raek	note: clojure programming is most often done interactively at the repl, rather than making a script file and then executing it
19:29	raek	now I need to sleep. good night.
19:36	peepz	then how would I sent a parameter to my short script in repl?
19:37	raek	java -cp <snip> clojure.main script.clj arg1 arg2 arg3
19:38	raek	in the script, command-line-args is bound to ("arg1" "arg2" "arg3")
19:39	peepz	yes but u are saying most coding is done right in the REPL without executing scripts from command line
19:39	raek	aha
19:39	peepz	so how do I run that piece of code in repl and pass an argument?
19:40	raek	you first evaluate your definitions by writing the into the repl
19:40	raek	and then just call the function: (hello "world")
19:40	raek	you can also load definitions from files
19:40	peepz	worked like a charm
19:41	peepz	last question promise :) why isnt my keyup work in repl?
19:41	peepz	it gives me : [[A
19:41	raek	yes, that's the control codes for "up"
19:42	raek	you need to use one of the build tools to get line-editing and command history
19:42	raek	it's not a part of clojure the language
19:42	peepz	give me an example of a build tool
19:42	raek	cljr is a good way to start
19:42	raek	and leiningen
19:43	raek	if you run "cljr repl" or "cljr swingrepl" you get a repl with line-editing
19:43	raek	(after instaling cljr, of course)
19:43	peepz	it seems there is no cljr for ubuntu, i did apt-get install cljr
19:43	raek	I also recommend looking into editor integration
19:43	peepz	also googling it didnt give any info
19:43	peepz	what about vimclojure?
19:43	raek	I gave you some links before
19:44	peepz	ok ill look there.
19:44	anonymouse89	I'm trying to modify an element of an a 2d vector and and return the 2d vector. I was thinking something like (let [m [[0 0][0 0]]] (assoc m 0 (assoc (nth m 0) 0 1)))
19:44	raek	cljr http://github.com/liebke/cljr
19:44	raek	leiningen http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
19:44	raek	cake http://github.com/ninjudd/cake
19:44	anonymouse89	works. But I would like something less clunky.
19:45	raek	peepz: http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Getting_Started
19:45	raek	anonymouse89: assoc-in? :-)
19:46	raek	,(let [m [[0 0][0 0]]] (assoc-in [0 0] 1))
19:46	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core$assoc-in
19:46	raek	,(let [m [[0 0][0 0]]] (assoc-in m [0 0] 1))
19:46	clojurebot	[[1 0] [0 0]]
19:46	anonymouse89	ah, thought there might be something like that. i know of update-in
19:46	raek	a neat family of functions...
19:47	anonymouse89	but to update only 1 element I'll still have to nest them
19:47	peepz	thanks!!
19:48	raek	assoc-in only updates one value
19:48	anonymouse89	oh, duh [0 0] is the address
19:48	raek	,(assoc-in {:a {:b 1}} [:a :b] 2)
19:48	clojurebot	{:a {:b 2}}
19:49	anonymouse89	raek: thanks, that's perfect
19:49	raek	yes, in my vectors and numbers example, the indices and values was easy to mix up
19:54	peepz	im trying to install vimclojure and I am stuck..I downloaded and unziped the package.. what do I do now? I am following: http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Getting_Started_with_Vim
19:59	raek	I'm not a vim user, so I cannot help you with that, I'm afraid.... In the beginning when you learn Clojure, just playing around with the repl (using, for example, cljr or the clojure jar manually) could be sufficient. I recommend getting that to work first.
19:59	raek	you can alway copy-and-paste code from an editor into the repl...
19:59	raek	not a very elegant way, but a simple one
20:00	raek	good luck and happy hacking!
20:00	raek	good night.
20:01	anonymouse89	is there a more idiomatic wasy to do this?
20:01	anonymouse89	, (vec (take 3 (repeat (vec (take 3 (repeat 0))))))
20:01	clojurebot	[[0 0 0] [0 0 0] [0 0 0]]
20:03	hiredman	,(repeat 3 (repeat 3 (repeat 3 0)))
20:03	clojurebot	(((0 0 0) (0 0 0) (0 0 0)) ((0 0 0) (0 0 0) (0 0 0)) ((0 0 0) (0 0 0) (0 0 0)))
20:04	anonymouse89	,(vec (repeat 3 (vec (repeat 3 0))))
20:04	clojurebot	[[0 0 0] [0 0 0] [0 0 0]]
20:05	anonymouse89	seems good
20:06	jamesnvc	Hello; does anyone here use Vim/vimclojure?
20:06	jamesnvc	I'm having a bit of trouble getting it set up under OS X, was wondering if anyone here could help or point to a better place to ask...
20:07	jamesnvc	Currently, when I try to build the vimclojure jar, it errors out with "java.lang.Exception: Unmatched delimiter: ) (backend.clj:171)"
20:07	jamesnvc	I've seen other people with that error, but no solutions...
20:08	Raynes	jamesnvc: If you don't get an answer here, there is a mailing list you can try here: http://groups.google.com/group/vimclojure
20:08	anonymouse89	I know this may not be the most helpful but, I had a bunch of problems compiling too. I ended up just downloading a prebuilt jar from a link on the mailing list.
20:08	Raynes	kotarak is the vimclojure guy
20:09	jamesnvc	Raynes: Cool, thanks
20:09	jamesnvc	anonymouse89: Alright, I guess I'll try that if I can't get this working
20:53	hiredman	,(doc ns-alias)
20:53	clojurebot	Pardon?
20:53	hiredman	clojurebot: jerk
20:53	clojurebot	No entiendo
20:54	hiredman	,(doc alias)
20:54	clojurebot	"([alias namespace-sym]); Add an alias in the current namespace to another namespace. Arguments are two symbols: the alias to be used, and the symbolic name of the target namespace. Use :as in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly."
20:55	hiredman	,(doc ns-resolve)
20:55	clojurebot	"([ns sym]); Returns the var or Class to which a symbol will be resolved in the namespace, else nil. Note that if the symbol is fully qualified, the var/Class to which it resolves need not be present in the namespace."
23:36	hiredman	clojurebot: ping
23:36	clojurebot	PONG!
23:40	Raynes	clojurebot: pong
23:40	clojurebot	Qinfengxiang!
23:50	old_sound	clojurebot: 青峰乡
23:50	clojurebot	I don't understand.
23:51	hiredman	clojurebot: tranlsate from zh 青峰乡
23:51	clojurebot	I don't understand.
23:54	old_sound	clojurebot: just a village in china
23:54	clojurebot	Pardon?
23:54	old_sound	AKA QingFengXiang