#clojure – 2010-09-05

2010-09-05

03:53	LauJensen	Good morning all
03:53	Raynes	Morning.
04:12	LauJensen	bozhidar: What we were seeing last night, was probably a bug in Awesomes event reporting, as soon as I moved the program to Windows everything worked and the layout resized as expected
04:13	bozhidar	LauJensen: I wouldn't have thought of that
04:13	bozhidar	but it's nice to hear you figured it out
04:13	LauJensen	'awesome' is a hack :\|
04:13	bozhidar	awesome - the tiling WM I presume?
04:14	LauJensen	Yea
04:14	LauJensen	At least I assume its responsible for sending the event
04:14	bozhidar	I don't think so
04:15	bozhidar	I think that X handles this directly
04:15	bozhidar	but awesome might be consuming something that it shouldn't
04:16	bozhidar	but then again - this is just a guess, I am far from an X event handling expert :-)
04:17	LauJensen	I think if you read about the design goals of X, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that it outsources event handling
04:17	hiredman	I have heard of tiling window managers and swing not interacting well
04:18	LauJensen	This might be one such case
04:35	tnoborio	Hello all.
04:36	tnoborio	(File. _nil_ "fname") raise no exception, but why (File. nil "fname") raise exception "More than one matching method found"?
04:36	tnoborio	(def _nil_ nil)
04:36	tnoborio	I wonder this behavior.
04:37	LauJensen	,(java.io.File. _nil_ "fname")
04:37	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: _nil_ in this context
04:37	tnoborio	,(def _nil_ nil)
04:37	clojurebot	DENIED
04:39	tnoborio	Why not the same behavior?
04:39	tnoborio	(File. nil "file path"), (File. _nil_ "file path")
04:40	tnoborio	_nil_ is defined nil, or return of function.
04:41	LauJensen	Good question
04:53	LauJensen	Ive had this problem a couple of times now. I have a namespace, which when evalled in the REPL works as expected, but when compiled it throws an Illegal state exception saying spit is already defined in another namespace, which it isnt
04:53	LauJensen	Anybody tried that?
05:03	tnoborio	That's right, I tried code,
05:05	LauJensen	fixed, I had put a :use where a :require belonged :)
05:05	LauJensen	hiredman: Have you got an idea about tnoborios problem above?
05:06	tnoborio	I put gisthub. http://gist.github.com/565876
05:19	tnoborio	I think Its related java.io.File have 2 constructor, File(String parent, String child) and File(File parent, String child), and parent allow null.
05:35	_ulises-	morning
06:18	fullets	b
06:35	bartj	converting this java code - IOUtils.copy(inputStream, writer);
06:35	bartj	to Clojure I do: (IOUtils/copy input-stream writer)
06:36	bartj	But, I am almost certain that there is no way I can get the contents of the writer back
06:36	bartj	because copy returns a void
06:36	fullets	(let [writer (new StringWriter)] (IOUtils/copy input-stream writer) (str writer)) ?
06:38	bartj	fullets, let me try that...
06:40	bartj	fullets, that works, thanks!
06:41	bartj	though, I thought that would not be possible, because Clojure is immutable
06:42	fullets	Clojure's variables/data-types are immutable, but Clojure doesn't make mutable Java types immutable.
06:43	fullets	,(doto (new java.util.ArrayList) (.add "foo") (.add "bar"))
06:43	clojurebot	#<ArrayList [foo, bar]>
06:48	bartj	fullets, yeah thanks!
06:48	bartj	fullets, writing/converting Java code to Clojure is so un-intuitive (functionally)
06:50	Chousuke	you pretty much need to rethink the whole thing :P
06:51	Chousuke	you can translate java into clojure if you're in a hurry but the result won't be spectacularly beautiful :)
06:53	bartj	Chousuke, it is outright ugly :)
06:56	bartj	I also reckon I am doing something wrong, which makes it look ugly
06:58	raek	bartj: you might want to check out clojure.java.io: http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.java.io-api.html
06:58	raek	it has a copy function
06:58	Chousuke	bartj: well if you're just writing "java in clojure" it won't look good no matter what you do :P
06:59	bartj	for eg, I will give an example below which I think is ugly and there must be a better way to do it:
06:59	bartj	statusCode = obj1.method1().method2().method3() -> this is in Java
06:59	bartj	and to convert it to Clojure, I do something like:
06:59	bartj	obj2 (.method1 obj1)
06:59	bartj	statusCode (.method2 obj2)
07:00	bartj	is there any better way to do the above
07:00	mrBliss	(.. obj1 method1 method2 method3)
07:00	Chousuke	I prefer (-> obj .method1 .method2 .method3)
07:00	bartj	Chousuke, that seems great!
07:01	bartj	mrBliss, thanks
07:01	Chousuke	(fewer parens than the java line :P)
07:01	bartj	haha
07:02	Chousuke	if the methods take args you can do (-> obj (.method args) .method2 ...)
07:02	raek	also, don't mix InputStreams/OutputStreams (which are byte-oriented) with Readers/Writers (which are character-oriented)
07:02	Chousuke	and you can also use clojure functions or macros in ->.
07:03	Chousuke	which is why I prefer it over ..
07:04	bartj	-> and ->> are the only macros that I know good enough to use frequently (apart from #_)
07:04	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/and
07:04	Chousuke	bartj: I'm sure you're using defn, and, or and when pretty often too :)
07:05	bartj	ok maybe amongst the exotic(!) ones
07:05	Chousuke	fn is actually a macro too but that's a secret :P
07:10	bartj	I also have some "doto" in the code
07:10	bartj	is that preferable over "->" or "->>"
07:11	mrBliss	they're not interchangeable
07:12	mrBliss	->(>) applies the next function to the result of the previous and doto applies every function to the first argument
07:12	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core$-GT-
07:13	Raynes	Be careful with those exceptions. They're collectible.
07:15	bartj	mrBliss, yes, thanks, I guess I was a bit over-zealous
07:51	Licenser	->(doc some)
07:51	sexpbot	=> ------------------------- clojure.core/some ([pred coll]) Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example thi... http://gist.github.com/565974
07:52	Vinzent	Hello all. I need an advice about macros. How can I access parameters of function that defined in macros?
07:54	Vinzent	e.g. I have something like (defmacro defaction [name params] `(defn ~name ~params)) and need generate code to process or examine fn parameters
08:11	ssideris	Licenser: hello... I've tried running your swing example with the temperature conversions
08:12	ssideris	and it seems that you have changed the clj-swing api a bit since you wrote this, right?
08:14	ssideris	(i'm referring to the example at your blog)
08:14	ssideris	great work with clj-swing by the wa
08:14	ssideris	y
08:16	ssideris	I'd be interested to contribute some code for tables, but I'm still working on learning clojure
09:31	LauJensen	clojurebot: contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
09:31	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
09:31	LauJensen	clojurebot: contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
09:31	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
09:31	LauJensen	clojurebot: contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
09:31	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
09:31	LauJensen	clojurebot: contribute is http://clojure.org/contributing
09:31	clojurebot	In Ordnung
09:31	LauJensen	ssideris: see the link above
09:37	ssideris	thanks
10:34	Bahman	Hi all!
10:35	LauJensen	Bada... ehm, .. Hi Bahman :)
10:37	Bahman	LauJensen: Hey there :-)
11:36	_na_ka_na_	hello, are :user/a & ::user/a the same ?
11:37	chouser	not always
11:38	chouser	,::user/a
11:38	_na_ka_na_	but if i define a key :user/a .. it gets looked up by ::user/a also
11:38	clojurebot	:user/a
11:39	_na_ka_na_	,{:a 10 :user/a 20 ::user/a 39}
11:39	clojurebot	Duplicate key: :user/a
11:39	chouser	,(alias 'ccore 'clojure.core)
11:39	clojurebot	nil
11:39	chouser	,::ccore/a
11:39	clojurebot	:clojure.core/a
11:39	chouser	,:ccore/a
11:39	clojurebot	:ccore/a
11:39	_na_ka_na_	ooh hmm subtle difference ..
11:40	chouser	the double-colon tells the reader to use namespace aliases to resolve the prefix part of the keyword
11:40	chouser	with a single colon, the prefix part is taken literally, without resolution.
11:41	kumarshantanu	if I execute (while true) on clojurebot, will it hang?
11:41	chouser	since 'user is the real name of a namespace, it resolves to itself and thus ::user/a and :user/a mean the same
11:41	kumarshantanu	afraid of running it in real
11:41	chouser	kumarshantanu: it should time out after a few seconds.
11:42	_na_ka_na_	,{:a 10 :ccore/a 20 ::ccore/a 39}
11:42	clojurebot	{:a 10, :ccore/a 20, :clojure.core/a 39}
11:42	_na_ka_na_	cool thanks chouser
11:44	chouser	np
12:04	tnoborio	The question before, Does anyone have a idea? why raise exception http://gist.github.com/565876
12:05	LauJensen	chouser: I'd love to hear your oppinion on tnoborio's problem
12:06	chouser	tnoborio: the first two File lines would fail at runtime
12:07	chouser	the third one fails at compile time because the compiler can be certain of the type of the first arg -- specifically, that it's nil
12:10	tnoborio	the first two File lines success, (File. _nil_ "fname") ; => #<File fname>
12:10	chouser	hmph.
12:10	chouser	ok, hang on a sec.
12:10	tnoborio	(File. (identity nil) "fname") ; => #<File fname>
12:13	chouser	my repl's broken at the moment. let me fix it and then I'll try to figure out what's going on
12:16	chouser	interesting. So File has two different ctors that take two args.
12:16	chouser	the difference is the type of the first arg: String or File
12:17	chouser	when you pass in nil, which should Clojure use?
12:17	LauJensen	,(str nil)
12:17	tnoborio	I think the compiler need certain of the type, the first File line should be raise error.
12:17	clojurebot	""
12:18	chouser	when you pass a literal nil (File. nil "fname"), the compiler (rightly, I think) complains that it doesn't know which to call.
12:18	chouser	when you pass something that will return nil at runtime, the compiler at compile time just emits some runtime reflection code.
12:19	chouser	then when that reflection code runs at runtime, it apparently chooses one of those two ctors without complaint -- but I still don't know which its calling or how it chooses.
12:19	chouser	tnoborio: I think you may be right, that it ought to complain at runtime in that case.
12:22	tnoborio	Thanks, understand.
12:23	Chousuke	I suppose you can't type-hint nil either? :P
12:24	notsonerdysunny	can I define my own equality function which would be used for comparison in a multi-method?
12:25	Chousuke	the dispatch function can be anything
12:26	notsonerdysunny	,(defn mclass [s] \|nil
12:26	clojurebot	notsonerdysunny: Gabh mo leithscéal?
12:26	notsonerdysunny	(reverse (loop [ret '() val s] \|user> (mclass
12:26	notsonerdysunny	(if (coll? val) \| "132213123")
12:26	notsonerdysunny	(recur (cons (class val) ret) (first val)) \|(java.lang.String)
12:26	notsonerdysunny	(cons (class val) ret)))))
12:26	notsonerdysunny	sorry ..
12:27	notsonerdysunny	,(defn mclass [s] (reverse (loop [ret '() val s] (if (coll? val) (recur (cons (class val) ret) (first val)) (cons (class val) ret)))))
12:27	clojurebot	notsonerdysunny: Huh?
12:28	tnoborio	Or the compiler accept (File. nil "fname") and it matche File(String, String) like (File. (identity nil) "fname").
12:31	notsonerdysunny	chosuke .. oh right ..
12:31	Chousuke	hm
12:32	notsonerdysunny	,((defn mclass [s] (reverse (loop [ret '() val s] (if (coll? val) (recur (cons (class val) ret) (first val)) (cons (class val) ret))))) #{'([{1 2}])})
12:32	clojurebot	notsonerdysunny: Titim gan éirí ort.
12:32	chouser	hm. so at runtime, the reflection code runs the first method that matches.
12:32	Chousuke	notsonerdysunny: instead of using reverse and consing onto a list, you should use a vector as an accumulator instead.
12:32	chouser	it doesn't appear to make any attempt to discover if there's more than one that would work.
12:33	Chousuke	or (map (fn [x] (class (if (coll? x) (first x) x))) somecoll) :P
12:39	notsonerdysunny	Chousuke: my function would return (clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet clojure.lang.PersistentVector clojure.lang.PersistentList clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap clojure.lang.MapEntry java.lang.Integer)
12:41	notsonerdysunny	Chousuke: while yours would return (clojure.lang.PersistentList)
12:41	notsonerdysunny	when the argument is #{['({1 2})]}
12:43	Chousuke	hmmh
12:46	Chousuke	oh well, you can still avoid the reverse by using a vector.
12:47	notsonerdysunny	yea you are right ..
12:47	Chousuke	the build-list-and-reverse is a CL idiom but it doesn't work in Clojure :)
12:47	tnoborio	In conclusion, I should understand that the rules should be one?
12:48	tnoborio	Sorry, bad english.
12:53	LauJensen	chouser: Judging from the fact that the resulting File object doesnt have a root path, the ctor call is equivalent to (File. "" "file"), so Im thinking nil gets a call from .toString
12:54	chouser	LauJensen: perhaps, but I think that would be dependant on the ctor itself.
13:01	edbond	enlive question: how to select ul > li, and li doesn't have class
13:01	edbond	"title"?
13:03	tnoborio	Japan time at 2am, good night.
13:03	edbond	answer: [:ul [:li (but :.title)]], cool
13:10	LauJensen	edbond: I think you left out the > ?
13:27	kumarshantanu	is there any short form for (if x x y) ?
13:27	jkkramer	kumarshantanu: (or x y)
13:28	kumarshantanu	jkkramer: omg, not sure how I missed that
13:29	jkkramer	:)
13:40	jcromartie	If map is lazy, then "chaining" maps together has the effect of only iterating over the "base" collection once, right?
13:41	LauJensen	right
13:41	LauJensen	I mean, there's quite possibly some heavy sharing between the collections, but technically you're right
13:42	jcromartie	that's a very cool thing
13:42	LauJensen	technically, its ubercool :)
13:43	jcromartie	that makes doing any number of maps, essentially, O(N) right?
13:43	jcromartie	not quite
13:43	jcromartie	but close enough
13:43	jcromartie	where N is the size of the collection
13:43	jcromartie	not the number of maps
13:43	LauJensen	Not sure, Big O isnt my strong suit
13:49	jcromartie	well in a really pointless microbenchmark, I have to map over 1 million integers 5 times to double the running times of 1 map over them
13:51	ssideris	hi, I'm struggling with namespaces a bit
13:51	ssideris	I'd like to use the Ellipse2D.Float class
13:51	ssideris	so I have (ns mynamespace (:import (java.awt.geom Ellipse2D)))
13:52	ssideris	and then I'm trying (Ellipse2D/Float. 10 10 100 100)
13:52	ssideris	which doesn't work
13:52	ssideris	it's a bit of an unusual one because it's a nested class
14:00	LauJensen	ssideris: nested classes are accessed with the $ operator, so outer$inner/method
14:00	ssideris	oh, thanks"!
14:03	ssideris	so should this work? (new Ellipse2D$Float 10.0 10.0 100.0 100.0)
14:03	LauJensen	is Float a class?
14:03	LauJensen	Or a Method?
14:03	KirinDave	LauJensen: There is a boxed float class called Float, right?
14:03	ssideris	this is a Ellipse2D.Float class
14:03	LauJensen	no idea. But if its a class then (Ellipse2D$Float. 10.0 10.0 ...) should work
14:04	ssideris	this does not refer to the java.lang.Float
14:04	ssideris	http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/awt/geom/Ellipse2D.Float.html
14:05	ssideris	I import (java.awt.geom Ellipse2D)
14:06	ssideris	and (Ellipse2D$Float. 10.0 10.0 100.0 100.0) does not work
14:07	ssideris	it's a very silly way to organise things... but that's how awt is...
14:08	LauJensen	,(java.awt.geom.Ellipse2D$Float.)
14:08	clojurebot	#<Float java.awt.geom.Ellipse2D$Float@0>
14:09	edbond	LauJensen: works without :>, gladly
14:09	ssideris	LauJensen: thanks, that works :-)
14:10	ssideris	it seems that if I don't qualify the name fully, it doesn't
14:11	LauJensen	,(import '(java.awt.geom Ellipse2D$Float))
14:11	clojurebot	java.awt.geom.Ellipse2D$Float
14:11	LauJensen	,(Ellipse2D$Float.)
14:11	clojurebot	#<Float java.awt.geom.Ellipse2D$Float@0>
14:11	LauJensen	edbond: it will work, but it can leak
14:11	LauJensen	Thats the whole point of >
14:13	LauJensen	ssideris: Did you catch that last import?
14:16	ssideris	thanks
14:17	ssideris	as soon as I feel like I have a good grasp of namespaces, I think I'll sit down and write a tutorial about it
14:17	ssideris	explaining everything in huge detail
14:18	LauJensen	You have namespace problems as well ?
14:19	ssideris	i just find use/require/import a bit confusing
14:19	ssideris	and I think that the current documentation does cover all points
14:19	ssideris	but a "for dummies" article would be good
14:21	LauJensen	import is for java classes. use is like require, but it interns all the functions from the namespace your importing in to your current namespace. require does not intern, but supports the :as keyword, (:require something [name :as anothername]) so you can run (anothername/somefn) ...
14:22	ssideris	yes I have worked out all this by reading here and there and looking at examples
14:23	ssideris	but I didn't find all this covered in one place
14:23	ssideris	especially the :as syntax
14:23	ssideris	i remember looking at code in github, the official api reference, and the wikibooks clojure book to gather all the information i needed
14:24	LauJensen	,(doc require)
14:24	clojurebot	"([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, or a flag that modifies how all the identified libs are loaded. Use :require in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. Libs A 'lib' is a named set of resources in classpath whose contents define a library of Cloju
14:25	LauJensen	try that in your own repl, there's a lot of info
14:27	ssideris	yes, I've seen this, but I think every case mentioned could benefit from a concrete examples... it would be particularly helpful for novices
14:28	LauJensen	Well, the last 2 lines are
14:28	LauJensen	Example :
14:28	LauJensen	(require '(clojure zip [set :as s]))
14:28	LauJensen	more complaints you need us to take care of tonight? :)
14:29	ssideris	look, this is not meant as ill-willed critisism, I greatly appreciate how helpful you guys are in the irc channel (and everywhere else)
14:30	LauJensen	I know, Im just yanking your chain a little :)
14:30	ssideris	I'm just saying that (possibly because I'm being a bit thick) I found namespaces a bit tricky to understand
14:31	ssideris	so as a way to give back, I think I'll try and write something about when I feel a bit more confident
14:31	LauJensen	No no, I didn't mean to write this off as being easy to grok, Im just saying that the specific info you needed was actually in the require doc-string. I don't know where you could have learned about the $ operator
14:31	ssideris	$ is actually mentioned in the java_interop documentation :-)
14:34	LauJensen	Well there you go then, Rich takes care of us
14:40	ssideris	in Rich we trust
14:41	LauJensen	Well, no, we review the commit stream :)
14:44	ssideris	haha
14:50	ataggart	what is the incantation needed for lein to pull the 1.2.0 compatible contrib jar?
15:16	kumarshantanu	I want to understand how does this work: (def x #(println "foo")) ((var x)) ((ref x)) ;; var and ref work, but atom doesn't
15:17	kumarshantanu	what's surprising here is, they don't need a deref @
15:20	hiredman	in a time long ago vars and refs were the same thing
15:21	kumarshantanu	hiredman: I am intrigued why don't they need a deref
15:22	hiredman	because vars usually hold functions it is useful to have them implement IFn and just pass calls along to the object they hold
15:23	kumarshantanu	hiredman: ditto for ref? why not for atom?
15:23	hiredman	no
15:23	hiredman	as I side vars and refs used to be the same thing
15:23	hiredman	said
15:24	hiredman	refs just sort of kept that behaviour, I don't know that you can rely on it continuing to be there
15:25	hiredman	atoms where created fairly late, after the seperation had already occured so they didn't pickup that piece of left over code
15:27	kumarshantanu	even more curiously, ((var (var x))) and ((var (ref x))) don't work
15:27	hiredman	uh
15:28	kumarshantanu	but ((ref (var x))) and ((ref (ref x))) work fine
15:28	hiredman	clojurebot: special forms
15:28	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
15:28	hiredman	clojurebot: jerk
15:28	clojurebot	I don't understand.
15:28	hiredman	clojure.org/special_forms
15:28	hiredman	read the docs before asking a million questions please
15:32	kumarshantanu	hiredman: okay, and thanks for the pointer
15:33	Chousuke	kumarshantanu: the ref and var operators look like they're related but they do completely different things :P
15:34	Chousuke	the way to create a var named foo holding value bar is... (def foo bar)
15:38	kumarshantanu	Chousuke: I think I am getting it now, but I was surprised in the beginning :)
15:39	hiredman	ref is function and var is a special form that the reader macro #' turns into
15:41	Chousuke	I had no idea that the redirection feature of refs was just a leftover though.
15:43	kumarshantanu	ref seems to be transparent while acting on functions -- ((ref (ref (ref x)))) works
16:02	LauJensen	hmm, no ring/ring-core has been there for quite some time
16:05	bobo_	hm, any project that uses enlive? want to read some source to better understand how i should use it
16:06	LauJensen	bobo_: bestinclass.dk
16:06	bobo_	ah! should have known :-)
16:07	LauJensen	There are 2 things you can check out. 1) the wordpress import, which uses the selectors, and 2) the site generator which uses templates
16:07	LauJensen	clojurebot: google github bestinclass.dk
16:07	clojurebot	First, out of 166 results is:
16:07	clojurebot	LauJensen's Profile - GitHub
16:07	clojurebot	http://github.com/LauJensen
16:07	LauJensen	well, close enough
16:08	bobo_	think its mostly the templating i want to read up on now. so il check the site generator
16:08	LauJensen	k, I think the file is called templates.clj
16:08	bobo_	yeh looks like it
16:11	seangrove	What's the easiest way to start generating charts with clojure?
16:12	seangrove	I've just lost ~1 hour messing around with the outdated dejcartes
16:12	bobo_	think i saw a jfreechart wrapper somewhere
16:13	bobo_	ah, that was dejcartes :-p
16:13	bobo_	seangrove: incanter perhaps?
16:14	seangrove	heh, yeah, I'm wondering about just using incanter
16:14	seangrove	Sounds good, I'll give it a shot
16:14	seangrove	It just looks like it might take more than an hour to get something up and running
16:14	seangrove	Happy to give it a try though
16:22	LauJensen	seangrove: the easiest way is without a doubt Google Charts, close second is JFreeChart
16:26	ApeShot	every time I take a break from clojure for a few months, I come back and can't remember/figure out where and how everyone is (has to?) set up their project folders so that things will work. Is there a place in the documentation I am missing for how clojure searches and loads classes/clj files?
16:26	seangrove	What's the "hello world" of an incanter project setup with leinigen?
16:27	ApeShot	For instance, if I put a clj file which creates a namespace in the lib folder of a swank project, I can't (use 'x) it, but I can if I put the same file in src
16:27	ApeShot	Does lib only contain jars?
16:27	technomancy	ApeShot: there are no hard and fast rules, but the convention says that yes, every jar in the lib directory will be put on the classpath
16:28	technomancy	ApeShot: have you read the Leiningen tutorial? it should help you get through that stuff.
16:28	technomancy	clojurebot: leiningen tutorial?
16:28	clojurebot	paredit tutorial is http://p.hagelb.org/paredit-outline
16:28	technomancy	clojurebot: botsmack!
16:28	clojurebot	clojurebot evades successfully!
16:28	technomancy	...
16:29	technomancy	clojurebot: leiningen tutorial is at http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/TUTORIAL.md
16:29	clojurebot	In Ordnung
16:30	ApeShot	technomancy: Thanks. This looks ultra helpful.
16:30	ApeShot	technomancy: I guess the source of this question is thus: I work on several projects, and each wants to use an sort of continuously evolving set of libraries.
16:30	technomancy	ApeShot: look for the "checkout dependencies" feature
16:30	seancorfield	lein new myproject; cd myproject; lein deps
16:31	technomancy	ApeShot: can't remember if it's in the tutorial or the readme, but it's designed for that use case
16:31	bobo_	technomancy: is that documented somewhere? except for its existance
16:31	ApeShot	technomancy: ok
16:31	technomancy	bobo_: lightly-documented, I think
16:31	technomancy	but on the other hand, there's not a lot to it; it's easy to set up and should just work.
16:32	seancorfield	"If you create a directory called checkouts in your project root and symlink some other projects into it, Leiningen will allow you to hack on them in parallel. That means changes in the dependency will be visible in the main project without having to go through the whole install/switch-projects/deps/restart-swank cycle"
16:32	seancorfield	README > FAQ
16:33	ApeShot	seancorfield: So by this technique, I should create a "apeshotlib" project, even if I never hack on it directly.
16:33	ApeShot	And symlink it into checkouts
16:34	technomancy	ApeShot: right; in most cases you have one project that depends on all the others.
16:34	technomancy	if you don't, you can create a dummy project
16:36	thunk	Is there a way to get slime to track buffers' namespaces from the (ns ...) form?
16:36	technomancy	thunk: C-c M-p should do it
16:37	thunk	technomancy: Ahh, very nice. Thanks
16:39	technomancy	np
16:47	ApeShot	Ok, so I put the symlink to the library project in checkouts, but how to I (use '...) a library defined there?
16:47	ApeShot	I am not sure what path-thingy to specify in the use command (or require, etc)
16:49	technomancy	ApeShot: that depends on the library. for contrib's io namespace you would have (ns apeshotlib.core\n :use [clojure.contrib.io :only [reader writer]]) ;; etc.
16:51	ApeShot	Not quite what I mean - suppose I create the apeshot lib, and in it lives src/error.clj which creates an (ns error)
16:51	ApeShot	How do I refer to that namespace from within another project?
16:51	ApeShot	after I have symlinked apeshotlib in checkouts
16:51	technomancy	firstly it should be src/apeshot/error.clj
16:52	ApeShot	Yes, that was my next question
16:52	ApeShot	And then it should be (ns apeshot.error)
16:52	ApeShot	In the file itself?
16:52	technomancy	right
16:52	technomancy	and then if you have only a few functions you should put :use [apeshot.error :only [fn1 fn2 fn3]] in the ns form you're using it from
16:53	ApeShot	technomancy: I think I get it all now.
16:53	ApeShot	technomancy: thanks!
16:53	technomancy	if you've got more (or if you foresee adding more) you could do :require [apeshot.error :as error] instead; which means everything you use from that lib would have to be prefixed: error/fn1 error/fn2 etc
16:53	technomancy	sure
16:54	ApeShot	I guess all this project discipline pays off in the long run.
16:54	ApeShot	I am sort of used to just hacking, starting with a "scratch.py" or whatever.
16:54	ApeShot	And gradually building up what structure a project needs
16:54	ApeShot	I suppose I could do that here.
16:55	ApeShot	But then it would be hard to use SLIME to its fullest.
17:07	technomancy	Man, it's too bad Relevance isn't secretly working on an in-house Clojure web framework, huh?
17:07	LauJensen	technomancy: ?
17:08	technomancy	LauJensen: just a silly thread on the mailing list
17:08	technomancy	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/32c51ca7ebdbc154
17:08	LauJensen	ah
17:09	ApeShot	Ok, so I've fixed up the library project so that, for isntance, error is located in src/apeshotlib/error.clj and it creates a namespace (ns 'apeshotlib.error). If I start swank in the project directory, I can, for instance, (use 'apeshotlib.error)
17:09	technomancy	ApeShot: no quote in (ns apeshotlib.error)
17:09	ApeShot	technomancy: right, type
17:09	ApeShot	typo.
17:09	ApeShot	Ok, so in another project, I create a checkouts folder, symlink the apeshotlib project directory, start swank
17:09	ApeShot	How do I access apeshotlib.error?
17:10	bobo_	technomancy: al you know is that they dont admit that they are doing something secret! ;-)
17:10	ApeShot	(use 'apeshotlib.error) doesn't work, saying it can't find apeshotlib on the class path.
17:10	ApeShot	Do I symlink the lib project folder in checkouts, or do I symlink the apeshotlib folder under src?
17:11	technomancy	it should be a symlink of the project root
17:11	technomancy	bobo_: true! stu is a sneaky guy.
17:12	chouser	not even that -- we know they don't admit that their secret project is a web framework. This simply raises the question: what is their secret project?
17:12	bobo_	oh! plot thickens
17:12	ApeShot	technomancy: that is how I have it now.
17:12	somnium	isn't the main unsolved problem in CS these days creating a web framework better than rails?
17:12	chouser	heh
17:13	technomancy	somnium: as long as we've solved naming things and cache expiry.
17:13	technomancy	naming things: just don't use *jure, and you'll be fine
17:13	technomancy	cache expiry: use memoize! it'll be simple.
17:13	technomancy	problems solved. next!
17:14	ApeShot	technomancy: do I have to do something with apeshotlib's project.clj file?
17:15	technomancy	ApeShot: shouldn't be necessary. what does lein classpath show in the top-level project?
17:16	technomancy	if apeshotlib/src isn't in there then it's not going to work.
17:16	technomancy	ApeShot: could it be a problem with relative symlinks? try an absolute one maybe?
17:16	ApeShot	It shows apeshotlib/src
17:17	ApeShot	So maybe it is the relative/absolute symlink thing
17:17	ApeShot	Or maybe swank-clojure-project isn't grabbing the classpath?
17:17	ApeShot	The emacs command `swank-clojure-project`, I mean.
17:17	technomancy	yeah, that wouldn't work
17:17	ApeShot	Ah
17:18	technomancy	checkout dependencies are a leiningen feature, not an Emacs feature
17:18	ApeShot	So what is the right way to start a slime session from a leinigan project?
17:18	technomancy	so you need to do "lein swank" + M-x slime-connect
17:19	ApeShot	lein swank is not a task, apparently?
17:19	bobo_	ApeShot: you need :dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.2.1"]])
17:20	ApeShot	bobo_: thanks, just read that in the FAQ
17:20	bobo_	(and then lein deps)
17:20	technomancy	or if you are on Leiningen 1.3, you can place the swank-clojure jar in ~/.lein/plugins to have it available for all projects
17:21	ApeShot	This is actually pretty sweet.
17:22	technomancy	yay \m/
17:22	bobo_	hm, is it only me who thinks it sounds nice to have a lein plugin to add other projects to a project?
17:23	bobo_	ie, that symlinks and so on
17:23	bobo_	except it isnt realy any so on
17:23	technomancy	bobo_: lein-search can add to project.clj
17:24	bobo_	cool
17:24	ApeShot	Everything seems to be working now - thanks everyone.
17:25	technomancy	bobo_: actually if you open the pom inside a lein-created jar it will show the git repo and SHA1 from which the jar was created.
17:26	technomancy	you could totally use that to check stuff out into checkouts/
17:26	bobo_	intresting
17:57	seancorfield	technomancy: any thoughts on incorporating some of the more popular plugins directly into lein?
17:57	technomancy	seancorfield: yeah, lein-search may go into 1.4
17:58	seancorfield	any thoughts about lein-run?
17:58	technomancy	also a candidate
17:59	technomancy	I think those might be the only generally-applicable ones
17:59	technomancy	possibly lein-multi, but 1.4 is probably too early for that
17:59	danlarkin	lein-awesome
17:59	technomancy	danlarkin: that's already built-in!
17:59	technomancy	no need for a plugin
18:00	danlarkin	touché!
18:00	seancorfield	hmm, i thought i had lein-run in my current test project but i don't and now i can't find it sigh time to google again
18:01	technomancy	seancorfield: upgrade to lein 1.3 and add it to ~/.lein/plugins
18:02	kumarshantanu	seancorfield: Lein-run 1.0.1-SNAPSHOT has a default alias too -- http://github.com/sids/lein-run
18:02	seancorfield	it doesn't create ~/.lein by default does it?
18:03	kumarshantanu	seancorfield: not sure abt ~/.lein
18:04	technomancy	seancorfield: no, that's all manual right now
18:04	technomancy	yet another planned 1.4 feature
18:05	seancorfield	'k... mkdir -p ~/.lein/plugins and a few cp later i'm in business :)
18:06	seancorfield	i put robert/hooke in there too
18:06	technomancy	indispensible chap
18:08	seancorfield	if i have a task in {project}/leiningen, it doesn't show up in the basic lein list of tasks - is that right?
18:08	seancorfield	i can run the task and lein help mytask shows the docs from the task
18:08	technomancy	it should be src/leiningen/mytask.clj
18:09	seancorfield	yes, it is
18:09	technomancy	oh... this may have been fixed in the 1.3.1-SNAPSHOT
18:09	seancorfield	it's actually hello.clj (and it prints hello world)
18:10	seancorfield	so i can do: lein hello
18:10	seancorfield	and: lein help hello
18:10	technomancy	we had some issues with missing nses due to a bug in contrib's find-namespaces lib
18:10	seancorfield	ah, ok
18:10	seancorfield	so lein upgrade ?
18:10	technomancy	upgrade will only get you the latest stable
18:10	technomancy	you'll need to check it out and look at the build instructions at the bottom of the readme
18:10	technomancy	or wait a day or two, hopefully
18:11	seancorfield	oh, ok... i'll just wait
18:11	seancorfield	i have a big website launch this week so i shouldn't be spending as much time on clojure as i am right now :)
18:11	seancorfield	post launch, that'll be another matter
18:11	technomancy	cool
18:12	technomancy	actually it would be nice to get more help testing this since it's about to be released if you do have the time
18:12	seancorfield	'k
18:16	technomancy	you guys too =)
18:16	technomancy	I mean, if you've got a moment
18:17	somnium	is it a sign of over-use of printf-debugging when you use this? (defmacro quietly [& body] `(do (with-out-str (do ~@body)) nil))
18:21	technomancy	somnium: it could also be a sign of the fact that c.c.logging doesn't let you set log level at runtime. =\
18:22	seancorfield	ok, pulled, built... now where do i put the 1.3.1 snapshot jar?
18:23	seancorfield	do i just update VERSION at the top of the lein shell script?
18:23	seancorfield	or is there some magic lein command now i have the new jar?
18:26	ataggart	technomancy: I'm about to upload a version of c.c.logging that does
18:28	ataggart	well it's not up yet :)
18:29	ataggart	and for some reason the generated docs are a mish-mash of old and new names
18:33	seancorfield	figured it out... copied it to my maven repo manually and then copied the new lein script to /usr/local/bin
18:33	seancorfield	and i seem to be in business
18:33	seancorfield	my hello task still doesn't show up in lein help tho' :)
18:38	seancorfield	i'll have to update my laptop to lein 1.3.1 as well today
20:07	ssideris	,(String/format "%02d" 4)
20:07	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to [Ljava.lang.Object;
20:07	ssideris	hm
20:12	dnolen	,(String/format "%02d" (to-array [2]))
20:12	clojurebot	"02"
20:12	boojum	,(format "%02d" 4)
20:12	clojurebot	"04"
20:25	dberg	(require 'clojure.contrib.str-utils) throws a file not found exception
20:27	dberg	I installed closure from ubuntu repo and followed the instructions to compile clojure-contrib
20:28	dberg	any steps I'm missing for clojure-repl to load str_utils?
20:36	dnolen	dberg: are you using clojure 1.2 ?
20:36	dberg	dnolen: no, the one in the repository is 1.0
20:36	dberg	dnolen: should I remove it and install 1.2 instead?
20:37	dnolen	dberg: yeah, I would. In 1.2 you can just (require '[clojure.string :as string])
20:39	dberg	dnolen: ok, cool, will do that. also noticed that although building clojure-contrib is successful there's an error in the beginning Unable to locate tools.jar. Expected to find it in /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun-1.6.0.20/lib/tools.jar
20:39	dberg
20:44	dberg	dnolen: hmmm I didn't have jdk, installed, compiled clojure-contrib but no luck
20:44	dberg	dnolen: will try version 1.2
20:45	dnolen	dberg: so you have the jdk installed now?
20:46	dberg	dnolen: yes
20:47	emh	why doesn't the following print multiple lines?
20:47	emh	(binding [clojure.pprint/print-miser-width 1] (pprint (range 10)))
20:49	emh	ah. print-right-margin does what I want
21:00	alpheus	What project uses defprotocol? I'd like to read some code.
21:16	chouser	alpheus: http://github.com/Chouser/finger-tree/blob/master/finger_tree.clj
21:17	alpheus	thank you
21:18	Raynes	chouser: Did you ever get a chance to look at those yourkit snapshots?
21:58	chouser	Raynes: I downloaded them and then realized I didn't have yourkit installed.
21:58	chouser	I may get to them tonight or tomorrow.
21:58	Raynes	chouser: Alright, thanks. :)
22:53	chouser	Raynes: this is tough
22:53	chouser	irclj is one of the namespaces you reload?
22:57	hugod	is it the permgen space that is growing?
22:58	chouser	there are many more objects of many types
22:58	chouser	not sure if that answers the question.
22:58	hugod	i see permgen growth if I :reload anything with a deftype/defprotocol
22:58	chouser	but it's not just Class objects that there are more of
23:01	hugod	presumably, all the "old" objects hang around until they get GC'd
23:02	chouser	yeah, but I don't know that they'd be included in yourkit's list of objects
23:02	chouser	I guess I should confirm that before making assumptions.
23:02	chouser	hm, I wonder if MongoDB is keep a list of Connectors.
23:03	chouser	...perhaps if they're not closed?
23:03	hugod	force gc, reload, force gc, and see what the difference is?
23:04	chouser	I don't have the code.
23:04	_mst	jvisualvm lets you diff two memory dumps too, if that helps
23:04	Raynes	chouser: Irclj is the underlying IRC library.
23:05	chouser	I'm looking at diffs between snapshots that Raynes took with yourkit.
23:05	chouser	Raynes: do you have any mongodb connectors that you aren't closing?
23:05	Raynes	I don't know. I open the DB in core, but I never reload core. I'm not sure how that magic works.
23:06	Raynes	I can try disabling mongo completely and see what happens.
23:07	Raynes	But to answer your question specifically, I never close anything. I just mongo! the db in core and then use it in plugins. I'm not sure what all of that is doing under the hood. It's all very implicit and magical.
23:08	chouser	I barely understand what I'm looking at here, but it does appear that mongo has a hashmap of Connectors, and thats one of the objects you have more of after a reload
23:08	chouser	I doubt it accounts for all of the increase, though.
23:09	Raynes	I appreciate you taking a look, either way.
23:09	Raynes	I suck at profiling.
23:11	chouser	reference paths to things that there are more of, to see what roots may be hanging onto old values that you don't need.
23:11	chouser	but the scale of object allocation is hard to deal with.
23:12	Raynes	Taking out the mongo stuff has no effect.
23:12	chouser	after reload, you have 34 more array maps. But I don't know how to ask for the paths of any of those 34 from among the 3,180 array maps in total.
23:13	Raynes	Indeed.
23:14	Raynes	It's a seriously annoying bug.
23:14	chouser	well, I don't think this is leading anywhere.
23:14	Raynes	I wish I knew how long it's been doing this. I never monitored memory usage when I first added reloading, so it could have been doing this all along and I didn't know.
23:15	chouser	I'd recommend trying to reproduce on a much smaller code base.
23:15	chouser	yourkit does say these are "live objects", so manual gc shouldn't be required.
23:16	chouser	so try something simple, with maybe just one lib. snapshot, :reload, snapshot, compare.
23:16	chouser	if even a simple case shows the problem, it'll be easier to get it accepted as a clojure bug.
23:16	Raynes	Yeah. It seems with even a single plugin this happens.
23:16	chouser	if a simple case does NOT show the problem, start scaling up until you see it.
23:16	Raynes	Just on a smaller basis.
23:18	Raynes	I actually did a few tests to see if memory usage grew outside of sexpbot when libs were reloaded, but so far, I've not been able to nail anything down. I'll have to try some more difficult tests.
23:18	Raynes	It could very well be, and probably is a sexpbot bug. I'm just clueless as to what could possibly cause such dramatic memory increases. I'll hunt it down eventually.
23:19	Raynes	:>
23:19	Raynes	chouser: I appreciate the advice, and I'll keep you posted on my findings. Thanks a lot for checking those snapshots out.
23:30	chouser	you're reloading at a REPL, or via an irc command?
23:46	Raynes	chouser: The latter.
23:48	Raynes	chouser: If you want to check it out, the relevant function is reload-all! (disregard the bangs in some of the functions, I haven't bothered renaming them) in src/sexpbot/load.clj at http://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot. Any changes I've made since that last push in there should be minor and irrelevant.
23:48	Raynes	I'm taking off for a little while.
23:48	technomancy	seancorfield: sorry; had to take off there
23:48	technomancy	the answer is you don't have to do anything
23:49	technomancy	just use the lein script from bin/lein in your checkout
23:53	Bahman	Hi all!