#clojure – 2010-09-04

2010-09-04

04:34	Raynes	chouser: Whenever you hop back on: I replied to the group post with some snapshots. <3
05:04	triyo	.quit
05:05	triyo	oops
06:19	ryoko-sha	I'm trying to construct a loop in which an index integer variable is parsed from a string via (java.lang.Integer/parseInt "1'), but am getting an exception java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: recur arg for primitive local: i must be matching primitive (test.clj:10)
06:19	ryoko-sha	...mystified
06:21	ryoko-sha	since (type 1) => java.lang.Integer and also (type (java.lang.Integer/parseInt "1")) => java.lang.Integer
06:21	mrBliss	try wrapping it in (int ..)
06:21	mrBliss	Integer != int
06:22	ryoko-sha	yep same deal !
06:23	mrBliss	what are the other arguments to the recur call?
06:24	ryoko-sha	(recur (+ i 1))...
06:24	ryoko-sha	couldn't be simpler!
06:24	LaPingvino	(unchecked-add i 1) ?
06:24	mrBliss	try wrapping that in (int ..) or replace it by (inc ..) (I'm also guessing a bit ;-)
06:25	LaPingvino	+ is not simple :P
06:25	LaPingvino	+ is a function on (add)
06:28	ryoko-sha	[LaPingvino] - bingo! thanks (unchecked-add)
06:28	ryoko-sha	is (unchecked-add) very naughty in some way?
06:28	LaPingvino	(+) does the boxing
06:29	LaPingvino	which destroys the primitives
06:29	LaPingvino	basically :)
06:29	ryoko-sha	thanks - its all al learning experience!
06:29	LaPingvino	ryoko-sha: unchecked-add can cause overflows
06:29	LaPingvino	because you use primitives
06:29	mrBliss	it's in the name:
06:30	mrBliss	,(unchecked-add Integer/MAX_VALUE 1)
06:30	clojurebot	-2147483648
06:30	LaPingvino	and it will not automatically change the type to a higher capacity
06:30	LaPingvino	there you go :)
06:30	ryoko-sha	super
07:26	raek	,(doc num)
07:26	clojurebot	"([x]); Coerce to Number"
07:26	raek	http://gist.github.com/442269 <-- primitives and recur, with comment from rhickey
07:27	raek	(the bug that the example illustrated has been fixed)
07:30	raek	ryoko-sha: I had to insert a call to num in the loop form: (defn fact [n] (loop [n n, (num 1)] (if (zero? n) acc (recur (dec n) (* acc n)))))
07:30	raek	sigh the loop binding vector should of course have been [n n, acc (num 1)]
07:32	raek	I don't think you should have to resort to unchecked-add
07:48	ryoko-sha	raek: yep - that worked for me - thanks
07:49	raek	I think that will throw an exception on overflow, rather than silently wrap around
07:50	ryoko-sha	better - although my values for i are very small - defensive programming etc...
08:11	fliebel	puzzled what is the long way to make a map/dict/whatever? {:i "mean" :those "things"}
08:12	mrBliss	,(hash-map :a 1 :b 2)
08:12	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
08:12	fliebel	ah… I was thinking in the map direction, but map is something else :P
08:12	mrBliss	,(zipmap [:a :b] [1 2])
08:12	clojurebot	{:b 2, :a 1}
08:13	mrBliss	looks more like the other map :-)
08:13	raek	,(into {} [[:a 1] [:b 2]])
08:13	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
08:24	fliebel	Can anyone give em an example of max-key? the docs are chinese to me, but the fn name sounds like what I need. I want to get the key from a map whose number is the heigest.
08:25	raek	http://clojuredocs.org/v/1506
08:25	raek	the key function should return a number
08:26	fliebel	ah...
08:26	raek	the element in the sequence for which the key function returns the highest number is the one returned by max-key
08:27	fliebel	raek: so Can I apply that to a map?
08:28	fliebel	,(apply max-key {:a 1 :b 3})
08:28	clojurebot	[:b 3]
08:28	fliebel	yay!
08:29	fliebel	uuhm, nope
08:33	fliebel	okay, this seems to work :)
08:33	fliebel	,(apply (partial max-key last) {:a 1 :b 3 :c 2})
08:33	clojurebot	[:b 3]
08:38	raek	(apply max-key key {1 :a, 10 :b, 100 :c})
08:38	raek	,(apply max-key key {1 :a, 10 :b, 100 :c})
08:38	clojurebot	[100 :c]
08:39	fliebel	ty
08:39	raek	the "key" function that the docs refer to could be called the "scale" function
08:39	raek	as in "pick the element that has the highest value on this scale"
08:40	raek	,(apply max-key val {:a 1, :b 10, :c 100})
08:40	clojurebot	[:c 100]
09:07	fliebel	What is the proper way to do this?
09:07	fliebel	,(map reverse {:a 1 :b 2})
09:07	clojurebot	((1 :a) (2 :b))
09:08	mfex	hey fliebel, the proper way to do that is to do it that way :)
09:08	fliebel	mfex: I mean, I want a map witht he keys and values switched
09:09	Raynes	-> (into {} (map reverse {:a 1 :b 2}))
09:09	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry
09:09	Raynes	wut
09:09	fliebel	yea...
09:09	Raynes	-> (apply hash-map (map reverse {:a 1 :b 2}))
09:09	sexpbot	=> {(2 :b) (1 :a)}
09:09	fliebel	tried all of that...
09:10	_mst	,(let [m {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}] (zipmap (vals m) (keys m)))
09:10	clojurebot	{3 :c, 2 :b, 1 :a}
09:11	_mst	(it always takes me about three minutes to remember that it's called "zipmap" :)
09:11	fliebel	_mst: Yea, I never get there at all, I end up browsing the sipper package.
09:11	fliebel	*zipper
09:13	mfex	,(into {} (map (juxt val key) {:a 1 :b 2}))
09:13	clojurebot	{1 :a, 2 :b}
09:13	Raynes	->(into {} (map (comp vec reverse) {:a 1 :b 2}))
09:13	sexpbot	=> {2 :b, 1 :a}
09:14	Raynes	I like mine better.
09:14	Raynes	:D
09:14	hoeck	,(clojure.set/map-invert {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3})
09:14	clojurebot	{3 :c, 2 :b, 1 :a}
09:14	Raynes	I like his the best.
09:15	Raynes	>_>
09:15	fliebel	hoeck: Yea, that's the better way to do things :)
09:15	Raynes	Why are there map functions in the set namespace...?
09:15	Raynes	They trick me out.
09:16	hoeck	maybe because of their relational nature
09:17	ssideris	what's wrong with (apply hash-map (map reverse {:a 1 :b 2}))
09:17	ssideris	it looks like the easiest to read
09:17	ssideris	apart from the map-invert of course
09:17	hoeck	core.set has also rename-keys, index and join functions
09:17	fliebel	ssideris: Try it...
09:17	Raynes	ssideris: The fact that it doesn't work is a pretty bad deal breaker.
09:18	ssideris	oops, yeah sorry
09:18	Raynes	:)
09:18	ssideris	but the zipmap solution is ok, right?
09:19	fliebel	This is how map-invert does it: (reduce (fn [m [k v]] (assoc m v k)) {} m))
09:21	jcromartie	I'm playing with designing a system that uses the SICP notion of "streams" for representing the state of an object
09:21	jcromartie	bec
09:22	Raynes	ssideris: I think any of the examples above are reasonable.
09:22	jcromartie	because the sequence of states of certain things over time is really important for the type of system I'm building
09:22	jcromartie	but I've hit a couple of spots where I'm not really sure how to represent things
09:23	fliebel	Is there any difference between using a map as a function with a key as argument, or the reverse? Both seem to work.
09:23	jcromartie	mostly because you can't serialize functions
09:23	jcromartie	fliebel: only one works when the map is nil
09:25	jcromartie	(and that's the keyword-as-fn)
09:28	mfex	fliebel: :keyword as the function works when the map is nil and with records as well, but for maps with keys that are not lookup functions there is no choice
09:44	fliebel	Is there something like rand-nth that lets you define the odds of getting certain items? The easy way out is letting certain items occur more often in the seq, but that seems stupid.
09:48	raek	fliebel: look at the "wrand" function in rhickey's ant.clj example
09:48	raek	http://raek.se/ants.clj
09:50	fliebel	raek: That looks like what I need :
09:50	fliebel	:)
10:24	Bahman	Hi all!
10:25	ssideris	fliebel: what you want to do is called "roulette selection"
10:26	ssideris	it's used in genetic programming among other things
11:02	fliebel	Aaah, the dreaded "Can only recur from tail position"… what is considered the tail position? I'm sure this has been asked before, I'm even sure I asked it before. I'm recurring from the if clause of an if-let, with and else clause following.
11:04	fullets	,((fn [x] (if-let [_ (pos? x)] (recur (dec x)) :done)) 3)
11:04	clojurebot	:done
11:05	fullets	Could you pastebin your code?
11:06	fliebel	fullets: http://gist.github.com/564552
11:06	fliebel	(near the end)
11:06	fliebel	line 43
11:09	fullets	That let is the final statement in the if
11:09	fullets	That is, there is no else clause as written
11:10	fliebel	you're right, I think I got my parens mixed up…
11:13	fliebel	yea, works :)
11:14	fliebel	See here, my new and improved rock-paper-scissors bot: http://gist.github.com/564552
11:18	fliebel	It has zero randomness and will hopefully improve over time. By knowing how it works, you can win.
11:19	lpetit	hello
11:19	fliebel	lpetit: hey
11:21	lpetit	do some people have feedback on ccw version 62 to give ? I'm considering releasing a corrective version, so if more must be included ...
11:21	lpetit	... now's the time for it :)
11:44	kumarshantanu	lpetit: I have a small correction request for CCW
11:45	kumarshantanu	lpetit: when one wants to create a clojure file with dash in the file name, it should say "Consider using underscore instead of dash"
11:46	kumarshantanu	lpetit: instead of simply saying "invalid filename"
12:03	zmyrgel	hi, how can I cast java class in clojure?
12:08	zmyrgel	for example, findComponentAt returns Component which I want to cast to JLabel
12:41	kumarshantanu	zmyrgel: casting is not required in clojure
12:42	kumarshantanu	zmyrgel: because clojure is a dynamically types language
12:46	zmyrgel	kumarshantanu: so in the above scenario it automatically finds the that the Component is actually JPanel and I can call JPanels method for it?
12:47	kumarshantanu	zmyrgel: yes, it depends on the object type, not on the reference type (because there is no reference type in clojure)
12:52	zmyrgel	kumarshantanu: ok, thanks
13:03	ApeShot	So I've compiled the latest clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar, and put them in the lib folder of my clojure project, and started up (successfully) slime from within emacs, but I can't (use 'clojure.contrib.string) or (use 'clojure-contrib.string), even though there does seem to be such a lib in the clojure-contrib source I compiled from. Any idea what gives?
13:16	ApeShot	I have been away from clojure for a few months, at least - has something changed in the way that libraries work?
13:16	ApeShot	I can (use 'clojure.contrib.str-utils) but, though it executes without error, this does not seem to actually import any of the functions in that library
14:01	fliebel	What functions are there to return a lazy cumulative map/seq? So that every item is itself plus every previous item. [1 2 3] -> [1 3 6] and then with a hash-map. browsing the core docs
14:03	somnium	,(take 5 (reductions + (iterate inc 0)))
14:03	clojurebot	(0 1 3 6 10)
14:03	fliebel	somnium: Nice :) thank you
14:04	somnium	oh, I guess we can do (range) nowadays instead (iterate ...)
14:04	somnium	np
14:04	arohner	map entries can't hold metadata?
14:04	fliebel	somnium: With the slight difference that I'm not doing a list of 1 2 3, but rather 1 5 8, and then want to have 1 6 something
14:05	arohner	I wish everything, including ints and strings, could hold metatdata
14:05	fliebel	arohner: Anything that's java can't
14:05	arohner	fliebel: I know. It's just getting annoying
14:07	kumarshantanu	what's the best way to transform [:a 10 :b 20 :c 30] --> {:a 10 :b 20 :c 30} ? the two ways I know are (reduce #(assoc %1 (first %2) (last %2)) {} (partition 2 [:a 10 :b 20 :c 30])) and (apply assoc {} [:a 10 :b 20 :c 30])
14:08	tomoj	arohner: how would you get a map entry with some metadata into a map?
14:08	arohner	tomoj: using into
14:08	arohner	(into {} seq-of-map-entries
14:09	chouser	,(apply array-map [:a 10 :b 20 :c 30])
14:09	clojurebot	{:a 10, :b 20, :c 30}
14:10	tomoj	,(let [x (first {:a 2})] (identical? x (first (into {} [x]))))
14:10	clojurebot	false
14:10	kumarshantanu	arohner: (with-meta {:a 10 :b 20} {:motd "Hello World"})
14:10	tomoj	I suppose it would copy the metadata in if it were there
14:13	somnium	has anyone done an ADT library with deftype/defrecord?
14:16	somnium	integers aren't valid names for fields, right?
14:16	arohner	somnium: right
14:17	somnium	but something like {:ADT_TAG t, T0 a ... TN z}, and then a pattern matching macro could add the right field names
14:17	somnium	then you could use ADT pattern matching internally, but still plug the class into protocols
14:17	kumarshantanu	chouser: thanks, that's the first kind of use of array-map I noticed now
14:18	somnium	hmm, maybe I'll give it a go
14:18	kumarshantanu	added an example @ array-map on clojuredocs.org too
14:19	somnium	this red-black-tree implementation convinced me of their potential utility: http://gist.github.com/561648
14:20	tomoj	somnium: https://gist.github.com/cf84a59543e31f42d2a2
14:20	tomoj	re ints as field names
14:20	tomoj	not that that's a good thing to do!
14:21	somnium	tomoj: yeah, just some ordered naming convention for (TAG a ... n) matching like haskell
14:21	tomoj	,(class (symbol "1"))
14:21	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
14:22	somnium	?
14:23	tomoj	my point was that while (defrecord Foo [1 2 3]) fails, with a macro we can do it
14:23	somnium	right
15:02	fliebel	I give up… How can I get a map sorted by its values? There are all sorts of ways to do it, but none actually works for me :(
15:04	tomoj	you can't, really
15:05	arohner	clojure's sorted maps are sorted by key
15:05	tomoj	,(sort-by val {:a 3 :b 2 :c 1})
15:05	clojurebot	([:c 1] [:b 2] [:a 3])
15:05	tomoj	but once you've done that you don't have a map anymore
15:05	arohner	if your map is 1:1, you can swap the keys and values
15:08	fliebel	I can live with tomoj's thing… I'm just doing ugly things I guess
15:09	fliebel	arohner: That could also work
15:11	LauJensen	Map lookups are usually by keys tomoj, so sort-by val makes a lot of sense to me
15:12	n2n3	,
15:12	clojurebot	EOF while reading
15:12	n2n3	,(System/exit 0)
15:12	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission exitVM.0)
15:13	n2n3	,{}
15:13	clojurebot	{}
15:31	jkkramer	fliebel: clojure.contrib.priority-map was recently added -- http://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib/blob/master/modules/priority-map/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/priority_map.clj
15:31	jkkramer	it sorts by value
15:32	fliebel	jkkramer: Nice, but it's solved already. Good for next time :)
15:33	LauJensen	jkkramer: Whats the use case for something like that?
15:33	jkkramer	LauJensen: priority queue, for one
15:33	jkkramer	LauJensen: http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2010/09/04/a-in-clojure/
15:35	LauJensen	ok, will take some time to grok
15:36	LauJensen	hmm, no I think I get it
15:37	jkkramer	i found out about this right after jerry-rigging a sorted-set priority queue for dijkstra's algorithm
15:48	LauJensen	jkkramer: for fun or work ?
15:49	jkkramer	LauJensen: currently for fun. writing a general-purpose graph lib
15:49	LauJensen	cool
15:51	jkkramer	planning to make a mailing list post about it to get some feedback
15:51	jkkramer	seems there's no fleshed-out graph lib for clojure yet
15:57	cmihai	What was that tool that gave command history to any repl called?
15:57	fliebel	jline?
15:57	fliebel	rlwrap?
15:57	cmihai	That was the one, thanks :-)
15:58	LauJensen	cmihai: slime
15:59	cmihai	Nah, I wanted it for db2 :P
15:59	emh	jkkramer: cool. I'm also working on a graph library. more special purpose than general though. for my master thesis, due in 1 week
15:59	cmihai	I remembered using it in conjunction with clojure, just forgot the name
15:59	LauJensen	emh: ouch, work fast :)
16:00	emh	yeah :)
16:02	jkkramer	emh: awesome. i'm trying to write a protocol- & record-based API that would be easy for anyone to write algorithms for
16:04	jkkramer	emh: are you doing anything fancy like multigraphs? or just simple/weighted/directed graphs?
16:05	emh	jkkramer: I'm also using protocols heavily. if you want to peek at my very work-in-progress-thesis, look here: http://rasmus.uib.no/~ehv022/thesis.pdf
16:05	emh	jkkramer: just simple undirected graphs for now. will probably extend it later
16:05	emh	after thesis
16:06	emh	depends on if I get a ph.d. after
16:07	emh	jkkramer: since I'm pressed for time I can't make it as elegant as I would wish. just have to crank out code as fast as possible
16:09	jkkramer	emh: very interesting!
16:10	jkkramer	emh: the concept of neighborhoods is new to me
16:10	emh	jkkramer: thx. we had all of it implemented in Java, but it's a huge ugly mess. I figured I'd have to rewrite in pseudo-code for presentation in my thesis, but clojure is sufficiently close to pseudocode so..
16:11	emh	jkkramer: neighborhoods are very important in the decompositions, so I devote more data structures and protocols to them than would be normal in a general graph lib
16:12	jkkramer	emh: http://gist.github.com/565453 is the basic graph API so far. there are also some basic algorithms to go with it
16:13	jkkramer	emh: would be cool to be able to mix in capabilities with protocols. e.g., labeled graphs, neighborhoods
16:14	emh	jkkramer: yeah
16:14	emh	jkkramer: looks pretty good
16:14	emh	jkkramer: one thing I've thought about is whether it's worth distinguishing between read / write interfaces for graphs
16:15	emh	jkkramer: since read-only graphs might be implemented more efficiently
16:16	jkkramer	emh: interesting. with protocols you could define ReadonlyGraph record(s), and it could still work with all the polymorphic methods, and be able to convert easily to a writeable graph
16:17	emh	hmm, yeah, true, easy to do conversions
16:19	emh	I need to get some nice infrastructure for mixins and defaults later. I looked at the methods a la carte lib, looks like a nice start at least
16:21	emh	http://onclojure.com/2010/08/26/reusable-method-implementations-for-deftypes/
16:23	emh	I'm using some quick hacks right now, sometimes implementing protocols on top of the Java interfaces for other protocols. for example implementing tex serialization protocol on top of interfaces for Graph protocol etc
16:26	jkkramer	seems there's still a lot of sussing out to be done when it comes to best practices for protocols, types, and records
16:26	emh	agreed
16:59	LauJensen	Does anyone have some pointers on how to make a design resizeable (grow/shrink) using contrib.miglayout
16:59	LauJensen	?
16:59	pdk	my favorite thing about freenode's ircd is that it makes you leave half the channels you're on just to change your name if you dc
17:07	LauJensen	bozhidar: ^^
17:07	bozhidar	LauJensen: hi
17:07	LauJensen	bozhidar: hi - got a clue about my q above?
17:09	bozhidar	LauJensen: I haven't gotten to using contrib.miglayout yet, but miglayout supports this on two levels
17:09	bozhidar	first you can declare growing columns/rows
17:09	bozhidar	and min/preferred/max sizes
17:09	bozhidar	and then you can use the same technique on the components themselves
17:10	bozhidar	when you add them to a container using miglayout
17:10	LauJensen	I might be in trouble with the wrapper then, I think it only supports components restraints. My setup is jframe -> jpanel -< jsplitpane -> 2 components. Where in that do you see the columns?
17:11	bozhidar	in the MigLayout object constructor
17:11	bozhidar	it takes a string representation
17:11	bozhidar	of the layout
17:11	bozhidar	with settings for every row and column
17:11	bozhidar	actually two strings
17:11	LauJensen	oh
17:11	bozhidar	one for the rows
17:12	bozhidar	and one for the columns
17:12	bozhidar	new MigLayout("wrap 1", "[grow]", "[grow]") - layout with one row and one column that grow
17:13	bozhidar	you should add additional [] for every other row/column you have
17:14	LauJensen	I don't think the wrapper lib supports constructor args, can they be passed in after construction ?
17:14	LauJensen	hmm, no actually it might
17:14	LauJensen	bozhidar: Thanks for the tips, I'll fiddle
17:15	bozhidar	there are setters for them
17:15	bozhidar	but oddly they take different arguments
17:15	LauJensen	oddly?
17:15	bozhidar	I personally always use the constructors
17:15	LauJensen	I have Java so bad - We mock PHP for being inconsistent, but Java is right up there with PHP
17:15	LauJensen	s/have/hate
17:16	bozhidar	hmm
17:16	bozhidar	I looked at the sources
17:16	bozhidar	even though the setters take Object
17:16	LauJensen	I iterate through some components, calling setBackground on them. Then I notice 2 of them arent affected. Google the first one and the answer comes up that under certain LookAndFeels its not guaranteed the calls to setBackground would be respected..?!
17:16	bozhidar	instead of String
17:16	bozhidar	they are internally cast to String
17:16	bozhidar	and parsed the same way
17:17	bozhidar	but this way you can pass something of type AC(which I've never seen so far)
17:18	bozhidar	this seems like a rather poor design decision - an overloaded method would have been easier to grasp
17:19	bozhidar	well, Swing is a pretty nasty story
17:19	LauJensen	bozhidar: And when the entire panel doesn't react to resizes at all, thats miglayout I have to blame?
17:19	bozhidar	there is simply no way to do everything the same way on totally different platforms
17:19	bozhidar	I don't if you're aware of the performance issues when you're using GTK+ L&F
17:20	bozhidar	when you start resizing the frame long enough
17:20	bozhidar	the JVM dies
17:21	bozhidar	if the panel is in another container - you'll have to configure it's layout manager as well
17:21	LauJensen	the panel is just in a jframe
17:21	bozhidar	if it's a top level panel(one contained directly in a JFrame) only setResizable(false) on the frame
17:21	bozhidar	might be causing something like that
17:22	jkkramer	is there a way to use 1.3 contrib complete with lein? [org.clojure.contrib/complete "1.3.0-SNAPSHOT"] doesn't seem to work
17:22	jkkramer	individual modules work
17:25	bozhidar	LauJensen: I think that JFrame used by default BoxLayout which would make the panel grow/shrink, but you can explicitly set some layout just to be on the safe side
17:25	bozhidar	I personally don't set manually the layout for my frames
17:25	LauJensen	yea, I'll have to import miglayout myself it seems
17:25	bozhidar	I just add one panel to each frame and set the panel as the frame's content pane
17:26	LauJensen	so you dont add it ?
17:27	bozhidar	I use code like this setContentPane(topPanel);
17:27	LauJensen	yea me too, no change
17:28	bozhidar	maybe you've set some size restrictions on the frame?
17:28	LauJensen	Not that I know
17:30	LauJensen	of
17:31	bozhidar	hmm, I can't think of anything else
17:31	bozhidar	maybe something is wrong with the wrapper
17:32	LauJensen	Either Im not getting it, or its half baked
17:39	LauJensen	bozhidar: both the panel and JFrame have (.setLayout "fill" "[grow]" "[grow]") and still do not react to resizes
17:40	LauJensen	(and the jtabbedpane)
17:41	bozhidar	LauJensen: AFAIK JFrame's setLayout method expects a layout object
17:41	LauJensen	I get no errors
17:43	bozhidar	it should be (doto (JFrame.) (.setLayout (MigLayout. "wrap 1" "[grow]" "[grow]")))
17:43	LauJensen	why?
17:43	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
17:43	LauJensen	hehe
17:44	bozhidar	because according to the JFrame javadoc the method's signature is public void setLayout(LayoutManager manager)
17:45	bozhidar	it puzzles me that your invocation is not causing an error
17:45	LauJensen	(MigLayout. "wrap 1" ...) returns a manager right?
17:46	LauJensen	oh
17:46	bozhidar	yes
17:46	LauJensen	I wrote it wrong here
17:46	LauJensen	sorry
17:46	LauJensen	(.setLayout (MigLayout. "wrap 1" "[grow]" "[grow]"))
17:46	LauJensen	I wonder if constructing a JPanel with a Layout as its argument is similar to setting the layout later
17:47	bozhidar	it's the same
17:47	bozhidar	just a matter of taste most of the time
17:47	LauJensen	it is - but I cant be sure with all of these other inconsistencies
18:16	Raynes	chouser: Pingzors.
21:03	danlarkin	interesting tidbit, which I suppose makes sense when you take the time to think about it: the datastructure returned by (promise) mutates when delivered upon
21:03	danlarkin	so putting it inside a reference type is meaningless
21:04	hiredman	how so?
21:04	hiredman	a promise is a promise delivered or not, dereferencing blocks until it has been delivered to
21:04	danlarkin	,(let [a (ref {:foo (promise)})] (deliver (:foo @a) :ok) a)
21:04	clojurebot	#<Ref@1ffa176: {:foo #<core$promise$reify__5534@1805bdb: :ok>}>
21:05	danlarkin	yeah I don't mean derefing the promise, but that it gets mutated inside a reference type
21:05	danlarkin	see I don't have a dosync there
21:06	hiredman	mutated how? if you ever look inside the promise you will always find the same value
21:07	danlarkin	it's mutated in the sense that first it was outstanding and then it was delivered
21:08	danlarkin	and since it's contained inside a ref in my example, it just exhibits different behavior than when persistent datastructures are in a ref
21:08	danlarkin	its behavior is obviously correct, it just tripped me up for a minute
21:08	hiredman	if from an observer's perspective something cannot be observered to changed, is mutable?
21:09	danlarkin	I don't get what you're driving at
21:09	hiredman	danlarkin: you wouldn't happen to know how to write applescript that takes input from quicksilver would you?
21:10	danlarkin	I do not. I tried to write a QS plugin once and found it much easier to just make it a shell script
21:11	hiredman	ok
21:14	danlarkin	so as a corollary to my discovery, I have a question. Is there a way, other than promise/deliver, to block on some arbitrary, programmer defined thing (ie not I/O)
21:14	danlarkin	(while @foo) or something is not true blocking, since it will just poll it every nanosecond or something
21:20	hiredman	there are a few blocking queues in j.u.concurrent
21:20	hiredman	and there are always Locks
21:23	danlarkin	locks to the rescue! who'd've thought
21:24	ataggart	does awaiting on an agent qualify?
21:25	danlarkin	interesting thought, but await only blocks on actions sent from the thread on which you await
21:25	ataggart	ah right
21:30	ataggart	can anyone think of an environmental issue that would cause a binding to not be applied? There are 3 tests in contrib which are failing, but only do so on the build machine.