#clojure – 2010-09-01

2010-09-01

00:09	anonymouse89	how do I make something like ((a) (b) (c)) -> (a) (b) (c) ?
00:13	anonymouse89	more concretely, I have something like `(do ~(for [foo bar] `(my-fn ~foo)))
00:13	arbscht	~@ instead of ~
00:13	clojurebot	@ has nothing to do with whether sth is evaluated or not
00:14	anonymouse89	and want (do (my-fn foo1) (my-fn foo2))
00:16	anonymouse89	so my question is, how do I prevent "for" from returning a single seq
00:17	arbscht	anonymouse89: use ~@ instead of ~
00:17	arbscht	~@ will splice
00:17	Raynes	anonymouse89: What he said. ~@ will do it.
00:17	clojurebot	@ splices in a seq and foo# is a symbol, not a seq
00:17	Raynes	clojurebot: We got this one bro. S'okay.
00:17	clojurebot	Excuse me?
00:17	arbscht	,`(do ~(for [foo [1 2 3]] `(my-fn ~foo)))
00:17	clojurebot	(do ((sandbox/my-fn 1) (sandbox/my-fn 2) (sandbox/my-fn 3)))
00:17	arbscht	,`(do ~@(for [foo [1 2 3]] `(my-fn ~foo)))
00:17	clojurebot	(do (sandbox/my-fn 1) (sandbox/my-fn 2) (sandbox/my-fn 3))
00:17	anonymouse89	bah, sorry I was not looking at names and the bot fooled me :(
00:18	anonymouse89	thanks
00:18	Raynes	:p
00:19	Raynes	->`(do ~(for [foo [1 2 3]] `(~'my-fn ~foo)))
00:19	sexpbot	=> (do ((my-fn 1) (my-fn 2) (my-fn 3)))
00:19	Raynes	Neat.
01:32	defn	real neat.
01:38	Bahman	Hi all!
01:39	defn	hola
01:39	Bahman	Hola defn!
01:39	defn	I don't know if I can match your intensity.
02:30	bartj	to get a subset of key/values from a map
02:31	bartj	I do this: (zipmap keys-subset (map #(me-a-map %) keys-subset)
02:31	bartj	Is there any better (in terms of performance, idiomatic) way to do this ?
02:31	bartj	eg:
02:31	bartj	, (def g #{:a :b :c})
02:31	clojurebot	DENIED
02:32	bartj	, (zipmap #{:a :b :c} (map #({:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4 :e 5} %) #{:a :b :c}))
02:32	clojurebot	{:b 2, :c 3, :a 1}
02:35	bartj	suggestions please ?
02:38	hoeck	,(select-keys {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} [:b :c])
02:38	clojurebot	{:c 3, :b 2}
02:38	hoeck	bartj: ^
02:43	bartj	hoeck, thanks!
02:45	bartj	hoeck, the caret means something :) ?
02:46	hoeck	bartj: in this case just "look above" (to make your irc client blinking on your name :)
02:58	LauJensen	Whats available for Java GUIs nowadays? Miglayout? GridLayout? More?
04:03	zkim	Anybody know what the 'Prefer updating over setting' bullet point on the lib coding standard page means? http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Clojure_Library_Coding_Standards
04:33	notsonerdysunny	can anybody suggest a maven-repository which contains jogl.jar ?
04:34	fliebel	Is there a way to listen for key events with Clojure? I mean the type of events that work when your app is not in focus.
04:34	bobo_	notsonerdysunny: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1962718/maven-and-the-jogl-library tried that one?
04:39	notsonerdysunny	bobo_: I have tried a couple of things .. I have tried using the ones on clojars.org unfortunately they didn't confirm to conventions of native-deps so downloaded those jars and repackaged it and uploaded it to clojars.org/sunilnandihalli/jogl .. but it does not seem to be working I am not sure if the problem is with the jogl .. or is it something else.. I am new to java/jar stuff.. so I...
04:39	notsonerdysunny	...might be doing something wrong.. I was just hoping somebody had a "native-deps" compatible jogl.jar some-where on the web
04:41	hoeck	fliebel: don't know if that helps but you can install your own java.awt.EventQueue to process all events the application gets
04:43	hoeck	fliebel: (-> (java.awt.Toolkit/getDefaultToolkit) .getSystemEventQueue (.push <your-custom-java.awt.EventQueue>))
04:43	fliebel	hoeck: iirc, awt doesn't even receive any events when it's not focused. It's just made to do the user-clicked-some-button-in-yout-gui type of stuff.
04:44	fliebel	hoeck: While I want to have the global events, for doing stuff like quicksilver, or gnome do, if you're into linux.
04:47	hoeck	fliebel: ah, ok
04:48	fliebel	hoeck: I tried to do it in Jython once, for mouse events… fail… Must be a way to do it...
04:50	hoeck	I guess one has to hook into some gnome or X libraries, or some use some strange windows messaging API
04:58	gregh	on windows you might use the CBT hooks but I doubt you can write one of those without introducing native code
05:05	fliebel	gregh: Then I might as well do it in Python, since I already wrote cross-platform native mouse bindings for that.
06:24	jave	it would be nice if clojure docs where available in info format
06:26	esj	is that a volonteer I spy ?
06:27	jave	yes maybe
06:28	jave	how are the docs made today?
06:28	jave	if I can do some form of hack to achieve it I can have a try
06:28	esj	http://github.com/tomfaulhaber/autodoc
06:29	esj	I really like them actually
06:29	jave	but is docs for core fns such as defn made the same way?
06:30	esj	yeah, believe so
06:30	jave	cool
06:30	esj	but I'm usually wrong :)
06:31	jave	heh
06:31	esj	have fun !
06:31	jave	Thanks
06:31	fliebel	is info format those frames generated for java docs? or what?
06:31	jave	no for reading in emacs
06:37	fliebel	I think it'd be great to have references to other functions in the docs.
06:54	esj	fliebel: ^^ :P
07:05	bartj	why aren't optional arguments in functions, accessible inside the function ?
07:06	bartj	(defn blah [a b & c]
07:06	bartj	(when c (println "hi")))
07:06	bartj	(blah 1 2 true) ;will not print hi
07:06	bartj	ah, never mind
07:07	__debaser	doesn't c stand for a list with the rest of the args?
07:08	fliebel	I thought so, but still:
07:08	fliebel	,(when '(true) "yes")
07:08	clojurebot	"yes"
07:09	bartj	ok, I find this behaviour very weird:
07:09	bartj	I don't know what I am doing wrong
07:09	bartj	let me illustrate
07:09	bartj	(defn blah [a b & c]
07:09	bartj	(when-not c (println "hi")))
07:09	bartj	(blah 1 2 false) ;will not print hi
07:09	bartj	(defn blah2 [a b c]
07:09	bartj	(when-not c (println "hi")))
07:09	bartj	(blah 1 2 true) ;will print hi
07:10	bartj	er, the last statement must be:
07:10	bartj	(blah2 1 2 true) ;will print hi
07:10	LauJensen	,(when-not false 1)
07:10	clojurebot	1
07:10	opqdonut	bartj: [false] is true
07:10	opqdonut	use & [c]
07:11	bartj	opqdonut, you mean everything after & is in a vector ?
07:11	opqdonut	(def blah [a b & [c]] (when-not c (println "hi")))
07:11	opqdonut	yes
07:11	bartj	oh thanks!
07:11	opqdonut	that's why its usually called & rest
07:11	opqdonut	it grabs the rest of the arguments
07:11	bartj	I was getting excited that I had found a bug or something ;)
07:12	fliebel	Is there any way to have Python style optional arguments? Like: def test(a b c="default")
07:13	fliebel	I think this is what bartj was expecting.
07:13	esj	fliebel: i usually do that with multimethods
07:13	esj	sorry, i'm lying,
07:13	bartj	is there a technical term for this sort of behaviour ?
07:13	esj	with variadic functions
07:13	fliebel	esj: difference?
07:14	bartj	I mean in the functional sense.
07:14	esj	(defn foo ([] (foo :default) ([a] (str a)))
07:14	esj	or suchlike
07:14	esj	so if you call foo with no args, it calls foo with one arg
07:14	esj	dunno how canonical that sort of carrying on is , though
07:15	fliebel	esj: ah, and multimethods are the actual fancy things with functions to determine the correct thing and stuff?
07:15	esj	multimethods are another thing that allow you to dispatch a function based on a function of the arguments
07:16	esj	so like in most languages you can dispatch a function on the type of an argument to get your usual polymorphism
07:16	fliebel	very fancy… so you could have a different method for positive and negative numbers for example?
07:16	esj	with them you can dispatch on any function of the arguments
07:16	esj	yup
07:20	bartj	esj: the difference b/w multimethods and protocols is that protocols accept only one argument unlike multimethods ?
07:20	esj	bartj: no, there's much more to it
07:21	bartj	esj, and protocols is much better performance-wise
07:21	bartj	esj, s/is/are
07:22	dnolen	cgrand: around? moustache question.
07:23	esj	bartj: that's true, but there is a lot going on under the hood
07:24	esj	i gotta dash, so can't continue this, which is probably just as well, as I'd just mangle it. There's lots on the web you can read though.
07:24	bartj	esj, ok, no problemo
07:25	LauJensen	dnolen: whats the question?
07:26	dnolen	wondering if it's possible to define a route match like "*/foo"
07:26	LauJensen	So to disregard the first level and only match on the second ?
07:26	dnolen	where we don't care what comes before at all, no matter how many levels.
07:26	dnolen	would a regex work?
07:27	LauJensen	[& levels] (when (= "match" (last levels)) ...) ?
07:28	dnolen	LauJensen, if a handle returns false it moves on to the next handler?
07:28	dnolen	s/handle/handler
07:28	LauJensen	Im not entirely sure how app dispatches
07:28	dnolen	or nil rather I mean
07:30	dnolen	hmm sounds like that would work, if handler returns nil it continues on.
07:30	LauJensen	I think it calls match-route on all requests, returning a seq of those that match. Then it might be up to emit-validator to decide which gets run. You'll have to 2x check the source, I think Christophe is a little tied up these days
07:31	LauJensen	I guess what you could do - depending on your situation - was to introduce a middleware that checked for those phrases you want to match ?
07:38	dnolen	LauJensen: Raynes had an interesting idea, would cool to be able to destructure from the end of something, thought clearly perf implications for anything but vectors.
07:38	kumarshantanu	LauJensen: I have a question about Ring -- does it lay down how to match URIs? I can't find any mention of that in the SPEC file in master
07:38	LauJensen	kumarshantanu: No, Ring has nothing to do with routing as far as I know
07:39	LauJensen	dnolen: {dstruc from end} (rseq vec) ?
07:39	dnolen	kumarshantanu: you'll need to use Compojure/Clout/Moustache for that
08:01	mrBliss	is there somebody here with a Mac who is willing to show the output of (. System (getProperty "os.name")) ?
08:01	mrBliss	I'm too lazy to turn mine on ;-)
08:02	kumarshantanu	,(. System (getProperty "os.name"))
08:02	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission os.name read)
08:02	nlogax	mrBliss: i get "Mac OS X"
08:02	mrBliss	thanks
08:03	fliebel	mrBliss: I'm to slow, but mine also says "Mac OS X"
08:04	mrBliss	just found this: http://lopica.sourceforge.net/os.html
08:14	LauJensen	Is there a Javacomponents which renders html and evalutes JS? (aside from the Qt/webkit)
08:29	cemerick	LauJensen: http://www.webrenderer.com is the only viable "lightweight" option for swing AFAIK. Besides that, DJProject does a very good job of integrating swt's browser control into swing (resolving tough issues like interleaving of heavyweight and lightweight components). Then there's SWT, which supports mozilla across all platforms (defaulting to webkit on OS X and IE 7/8 on Windows).
08:30	LauJensen	Excellent, I'll check them out, thanks Chas
08:31	LauJensen	btw - I wasn't trying to scare that guy with the Windows perf question last night - I was just reminded of some benchmarking results I saw a while back, where Clojure on Windows had some nasty spikes not seen on *nix
08:35	LauJensen	cemerick: ^^
08:36	cemerick	LauJensen: you know me, always looking out for the great unwashed masses not using linux and emacs. ;-)
08:37	LauJensen	I know - And you had a valid point so Im glad you injected it - Im just saying it wasnt purely unbased Windows hatred :)
08:37	cemerick	well, "windows is slow" isn't very ambiguous
08:38	cemerick	It's fine, as long as you're holding up the extremist front, I can look like a moderate :-D
08:38	LauJensen	hehe
08:38	LauJensen	Don't worry, Im not going anywhere
08:44	bozhidar	I'm not an Windows user, but lets be fair
08:44	bozhidar	if almost everyone is using it - it can't be that bad
08:44	bozhidar	:-)
08:45	LauJensen	bozhidar: That kind of logic will get you killed
08:45	bozhidar	LauJensen: life will get me killed anyways ;-)
08:46	cemerick	bozhidar: Indeed, just another bargain between vendor and user, and a product of its history (just like everything else).
08:46	bozhidar	cemerick: I totally agree
08:46	LauJensen	bozhidar: By that logic PHP is the 5th best programming language in the world
08:46	bozhidar	LauJensen: good and bad are extremely subjective words
08:47	LauJensen	'if everybody uses it, it cant be that BAD' => PHP is the 5.th most deployed language in the world
08:47	bozhidar	if something has become that wide spread - it has to have some merits
08:47	cemerick	LauJensen: There's no "good" or "bad" involved -- just "works" or "doesn't work" for particular people/orgs and use-cases.
08:47	LauJensen	Alright - Lets leave it here while you ponder a career in PHP development :)
08:47	bozhidar	I personally don't like it very much, but I can see the appeal it has to many developers
08:48	bobo_	yes, join me in php hell!
08:48	bozhidar	lots of docs lying around, easy to get started, easy to deploy
08:48	bozhidar	compare that to a java web app :-)
08:48	bobo_	honestly, php is less horrible then swing
08:48	cemerick	bozhidar: a much stronger comparison would be between mysql and SQLServer admin, but sure. :-)
08:49	bozhidar	bobo_: I've coded a lot of Swing - at first I hated it, but once you get used to it, it's not that bad. Actually that awful api gives you a lot of flexibility
08:49	chouser	I'm actually using PHP these days, and am rapidly cementing an informed opinion.
08:50	chouser	...which is entirely off topic, not to mention rude, so I'll keep it to myself.
08:50	cemerick	chouser: I think #clojure has been off topic all summer.
08:50	fliebel	chouser: I've used PHP for years, and still don't have any. PHP is like Rails in that respect, you don't need to know the language to produce something usefull.
08:50	bozhidar	chouser: I have such secret opinion about Visual Basic ;-)
08:51	fliebel	What does this mean? "Aleph conforms to the interface described by http://github.com/mmcgrana/ring, with one small difference: the request and response are decoupled."
08:51	chouser	bozhidar: me too! though mine wasn't secert. I made a web page detailing my opinion back in '97 or so.
08:53	bozhidar	real story, guys - I go to a job interview for Java developer, they approve me and on the day of the contract signing the HR lady tells me this. "I saw in your resume that you worked 3 months on a PHP project, are you interested in becoming a PHP team leader instead of java developer?"
08:53	bozhidar	I was shocked and amused at the same time
08:53	bozhidar	:-)
08:55	chouser	I'm guessing your shocking and amusing answer was: "no"
08:55	LauJensen	bozhidar: why? 3 months of steady employment should be more than enough qualification to be a PHP team lead :)
08:55	fliebel	bozhidar: You became the PHP team leader I suppose?
08:55	bozhidar	chouser: indeed
08:55	bozhidar	LauJensen: I wasn't even working on something mainstream
08:56	bozhidar	we were migrating the web UI of our flights booking engine
08:56	bozhidar	and there were to enough PHP devs to meet the deadline
08:56	bozhidar	so the C++ and Java teams were involved as well
08:57	bozhidar	before that I hadn't written a line of PHP code in my life and the framework we used for the UI was developed internally so this was not knowledge one could apply somewhere else
08:58	bozhidar	my old employers were pretty fond of useless custom solutions to generic problems
08:58	LauJensen	I said 'steady employment', I meant the ability to get up in the morning and show up for work :)
08:58	bozhidar	before the PHP stint they had developed a programming language(!!!) that according to them was better than PHP :-)
08:59	bobo_	i can belive that
08:59	LauJensen	Yea sounds plausible
08:59	bozhidar	bobo_: you haven't seen HTTL ;-)
08:59	chouser	the Hyper Text Template Language!
08:59	mrBliss	I would like to see it!
08:59	LauJensen	There was a story on HN a few months ago, about this guy being hired to work in JoeX ro something, a personal PHP variant
09:00	LauJensen	s/ro/or/
09:00	bozhidar	chouser: yes, have you heard of it?
09:00	chouser	bozhidar: no
09:00	bozhidar	chouser: lucky man
09:01	bozhidar	btw on the subject of Clojure
09:02	bozhidar	as I mentioned I do a lot of Swing dev and I was wondering something
09:02	bozhidar	generally a Swing frame/dialog has a lot of GUI components in it
09:03	bozhidar	what is the preferred approach to model this in Clojure
09:04	bozhidar	in Java you'd usually have private fields for everything you plan to refer more than once(which is generally everything except labels and separators)
09:04	LauJensen	bozhidar: check out clojure.contrib.miglayout
09:05	bozhidar	LauJensen: 10x
09:05	bozhidar	miglayout is my favourite layout manager, probably this is exactly what I need
09:06	LauJensen	There's a nice wrapper for it, which also lets you label components and refer to them later by id
09:07	bozhidar	great
09:07	bozhidar	just what the doctor ordered
09:25	mrBliss	what's the recommended name for a test of a function (for example defn ms-to-minutes and deftest ms-to-minutes-test)?
09:44	pdk	,(sym "complex phrase as a symbol name")
09:44	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: sym in this context
09:44	pdk	,(symbol "complex phrase as a symbol name")
09:44	clojurebot	complex phrase as a symbol name
09:44	pdk	\o/
09:45	pdk	,(symbol "\"that\'s amazing!\"")
09:45	clojurebot	Unsupported escape character: \'
09:45	pdk	welp
09:45	pdk	,(symbol "\"that's amazing!\"")
09:45	clojurebot	"that's amazing!"
09:46	pdk	NOW THE QUESTION IS
09:46	pdk	,(keyword "\"that's amazing!\"")
09:46	clojurebot	:"that's amazing!"
09:49	chouser	pdk: that could stop working at any moment. Well, at any moment during which you upgrade clojure. Just so you know.
09:51	nlogax	is anyone using aleph for something other than http stuff? i want to write an irc bot as my first project, but i can't find any good examples (and clojure is still fairly alien to me)
09:52	nlogax	aleph looks inviting because it appears to hide the java stuff :)
09:52	fliebel	nlogax: I'm planing to do smtp and imap with it, but nothing done yet.
09:53	fliebel	(i'm planning A LOT, but not doing everything I plan)
09:53	nlogax	heheh, same here
09:55	mrBliss	(inc that)
09:55	chouser	nlogax: there are some nice Java IRC libs that would let you work at a higher level of abstraction
09:55	chouser	and even some clojure wrappers around those
09:55	fliebel	clojurebot: where are you?
09:55	clojurebot	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
09:55	bobo_	http://github.com/Raynes/irclj isnt a wrapper
09:55	bobo_	belive clojurebot uses that aswell
10:03	nlogax	i looked briefly at clojurebot, but it was a bit overwhelming. i'll try and pick it apart if i don't find anything else :)
10:04	bobo_	nlogax: what part is it you want to look at? the irc part?
10:05	nlogax	bobo_: ideally i'd just like a socket to put stuff into and read stuff from
10:06	bobo_	i think you can look att irclj then
10:06	nlogax	so i can learn something
10:06	nlogax	will do!
10:10	LauJensen	Anybody here tried Apache Pivot for a Desktop App?
10:26	jkkramer	is it ok to assoc a boatload of entries into a record? is it better to give it a single map field that you assoc into instead?
10:27	jkkramer	like thousands or millions of entries
10:28	chouser	jkkramer: it's essentially a single map on the end of record anyway, so go ahead and dump in whatever you need.
10:28	jkkramer	chouser: thanks. i wasn't sure if there was some class field-generating magic behind the scenes or something
10:29	mrBliss	how do you rebind private functions from another namespace? (for testing purposes ofc)
11:02	simard	can clojure use java libs ?
11:02	yacin	yup
11:03	simard	well, then it's perfect isn't it ?
11:03	simard	more seriously, I was wondering why one would use clojure instead of, say, Lisp
11:03	LauJensen	simard: getting there
11:03	LauJensen	simard: Clojure is a Lisp dialect
11:03	simard	which makes it very attractive to me
11:04	LauJensen	If you're wondering if why one would use Clojure instead of Common Lisp there are more reasons than I can count, and few against doing so
11:04	simard	but I kinda dislike the way common lisp has relatively few libs
11:07	LauJensen	Why the 'but' ?
11:07	AWizzArd	simard: with ABCL it has exactly the same available as Clojure
11:07	simard	dunno :)
11:07	AWizzArd	it also has all the datastructures of Clojure available
11:09	LauJensen	AWizzArd: interesting, I didn't know that
11:09	AWizzArd	ABCL is an implementation for the JVM.
11:09	AWizzArd	vice versa it means that you can compile tons of CL code with it to .class files and use those from Clojure.
11:10	LauJensen	AWizzArd: Why would you want to ?
11:10	slyrus	LauJensen: why would you want java interop?
11:10	AWizzArd	people may have a code base of a few ten thousand LOC written in CL•
11:10	slyrus	I have far more CL code than java code lying around I'd like to use from my clojure code
11:11	slyrus	clearly I am in the minority
11:11	LauJensen	Ah like so
11:11	LauJensen	I guess I solved that with a rm -rf, once Clojure was released to the public :)
11:11	AWizzArd	;)
11:11	AWizzArd	Anyway, there are still plenty of highly experienced lisp users who prefer CL over Clojure.
11:11	cemerick	Wow, what a niche: people with existing CL codebases that are usable in ABCL who would like to use them from clojure!
11:12	AWizzArd	They will probably stick with CL.
11:12	LauJensen	cemerick: Yea, you shouldn't start a business doing those ports
11:12	AWizzArd	I must mean that it is possible.
11:12	LauJensen	'CommonHarvest'
11:12	AWizzArd	must => just
11:15	chouser	http://gist.github.com/560765#file_abomination_desolation.clj
11:20	_fogus_	chouser: now to allow forms like k = i + j :o
11:21	chouser	_fogus_: right, clearly this belongs in unfix
11:21	_fogus_	oooooooo!
11:21	chouser	though without any parens at all, we'd need an expression terminator sigil -- but ; is taken.
11:21	_fogus_	"Are you tired of so-called "let-blocks"?
11:21	chouser	but k = (i + j) could be made to work easily enough.
11:23	LauJensen	chouser: I dont understand, why would you do such a thing?
11:24	chouser	I think it would be possible to have a (start-using-dolet) macro that, when put just after your (ns ...) would make all do-blocks act like dolet
11:24	chouser	...allowing (fn [a] b = (inc a), (prn b))
11:25	chouser	LauJensen: for the sheer twisted joy of it.
11:25	metagov	chouser: I'd prefer the alternate abomination in that case: (fn [a] (let b (inc a)), (prn b))
11:26	chouser	metagov: hm.. that would actually be a breaking change. we'd need a different word than 'let'
11:26	chouser	oh, or maybe just look for a vector.
11:27	LauJensen	in pom.xml, what is modelversion ?
11:27	chouser	(let a b) is for the outer scope, (let [a b] ...) creates a new scope.
11:29	LauJensen	modelVersion This element indicates what version of the object model this POM is using. The version of the model itself changes very infrequently but it is mandatory in order to ensure stability of use if and when the Maven developers deem it necessary to change the model.
11:31	lpetit	hello
11:31	lpetit	chouser: what are you talking about ?
11:31	chouser	lpetit: http://gist.github.com/560765#file_abomination_desolation.clj
11:33	lpetit	chouser: it's for more easily be able to write code with side-effects ? :)
11:33	chouser	it's to demonstrate that Clojure's syntax is what it is not because it can't be like more imperative languages, but because it chooses not to be.
11:35	lpetit	chouser: ok. final touch for you book ? :)
11:36	LauJensen	lpetit: I think he's holding off until he's implemented (defmacro c++ [& body] ...)
11:36	slyrus	chouser: what is outer scope?
11:36	lpetit	LauJensen: rofl
11:36	lpetit	Bjarne, GET OUT of chouser's body :) :)
11:37	chouser	lpetit: nah, but maybe an addition to http://www.fogus.me/fun/unfix/
11:37	LauJensen	hehe
11:37	LauJensen	man fogus has the sickest webdesign chops
11:38	chouser	slyrus: the containing 'do' block that would have been converted to a 'dolet', so the enclosing do, fn, let, etc.
11:39	LauJensen	chouser: did you guys ever finish that shell on his site?
11:39	chouser	LauJensen: That's all _fogus_ -- I know nothing.
11:39	LauJensen	Oh
11:40	chouser	well, that didn't stir up nearly enough uproar. Should I tweet it?
11:41	LauJensen	chouser: naah just commit it to master, then tweet
11:42	chouser	heh. I think that would be my last commit.
11:43	cemerick	I don't think there'll be much uproar. People'll shrug here, and either not grok it elsewhere.
11:50	chouser	hm. dull.
12:03	bortreb	the DESOLATION!!!!!!
12:03	bortreb	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO11111111111
12:05	bortreb	chouser: you sir, are a mad genius
12:43	chouser	bortreb: that's better. thanks!
12:43	chouser	:-)
12:43	chouser	I should mention this came out of dangerous conversations with metagov
14:01	LauJensen	You get the funniest referers when running a website: http://www.ask.com/web?q=I+found+a+red+pill+that+was+cut+in+half+what+could+it+be%3F&qsrc=0&o=0&l=dir
14:02	raek	løl
14:03	_fogus_	chouser: I added you to the unfix contributors, so feel free to add dolet if you feel motivated. :-) http://github.com/fogus/unfix
14:04	LauJensen	_fogus_: got push ?
14:04	chouser	_fogus_: :-) thanks
14:05	_fogus_	LauJensen: Sorry, I meant to but had a kid issue yesterday. I will try again tonight, unless a tar works better right now
14:06	LauJensen	No problem, kid issues take priority 10 out of 10 times :)
14:07	Raynes	LauJensen: 9.5 out of 10 times if you can type and change diapers at the same time.
14:09	s450r1	but still 10 out of 10 times if you can type and change diapers at diapers at the same time but have twins
14:09	LauJensen	Raynes: I guess that explains your code.... :)
14:12	jfields	(= (:price-in-pennies desired) (:price-in-pennies resting))
14:12	jfields	is there a more elegant way to do that?
14:14	Raynes	LauJensen: I don't change diapers while I code. I have a strange habit of eating difficult foods while coding, however.
14:14	LauJensen	difficult foods? Sounds unproductive, just have a slice of bread
14:15	Raynes	:p
14:16	dnolen	jfields: a little shorter (reduce = (map :prince-in-pennies) [desired resting])
14:16	_fogus_	jfields: (apply = (map :price-in-pennies [desired resting])) might make for a more generic approach
14:16	_fogus_	dnolen: too fast!
14:17	dnolen	_fogus_: but you win by being 2 chars shorter ;)
14:17	_fogus_	YAY!
14:18	jfields	thanks guyas
14:18	jfields	guys
14:18	_fogus_	guyas means "gentlemen of great passion" in cambodian
14:23	_fogus_	Someone kick me for ever thinking that discussing parens was a good idea
14:34	_fogus_	Is there a better way to do (f (butlast s) (last s)) ?
14:35	danlarkin	(apply f (drop (- (count s) s) s))
14:36	danlarkin	but that is certainly not better
14:36	danlarkin	er
14:36	danlarkin	I typoed it
14:36	LauJensen	_fogus_: only if its a vector
14:36	_fogus_	yeah, it's actually (fn [& s] ...)
14:37	dnolen	_fogus_: perhaps another reason to support destructuring from the end?
14:38	_fogus_	dnolen: That would be very nice.
14:38	_fogus_	Although my specific case is too obscure to warrant a change
14:38	_fogus_	http://gist.github.com/561132
14:39	dnolen	(fn [$head x] ...) ?
14:40	_fogus_	(fn [[front &middle end]] ...) ?
14:42	Anniepoo_	this should be trivial, but it's driving me nuts - I want to write a concurrancy-safe 'pop' operation.
14:43	LauJensen	Anniepoo_: (swap! atom pop)
14:43	replaca	jave: are you there?
14:43	Anniepoo_	Lau, I want the top item
14:44	Anniepoo_	if I do (first @atom) beforehand it's not in the transaction
14:44	LauJensen	(dosync (let [p (first @ref)] (alter ref pop) p)) ?
14:45	Anniepoo_	ok, thanks.
14:45	Anniepoo_	dunno why that seemed so hard.
14:45	chouser	it's hard with an atom
14:45	Anniepoo_	I'd convinced myself that wouldn't work
14:45	LauJensen	chouser: impossible you mean?
14:46	chouser	no
14:46	chouser	messy
14:47	LauJensen	Can you demo ?
14:49	chouser	(defn atom-pop [a] (let [box (clojure.lang.Box. nil)] (swap! a #(do (set! (.val box) (peek %)) (pop %))) (.val box)))
14:50	chouser	^^ messy
14:50	LauJensen	Nasty
14:50	LauJensen	But yes, it would work :)
14:50	jave	replaca: hello
14:52	chouser	http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2010-08-18.html#11:14
14:55	LauJensen	chouser: Thats really one of the charms of #clojure, on the one hand you and Rich are discussing concurrency semtantics, and at the same time Raynes is pondering how to manually crack eggs - true concurrency! :)
14:57	AWizzArd	a bit cleaner: (defn atom-pop [a] (let [p (promise)] (swap! a #(do (deliver p (first %)) (pop %))) @p))
14:58	AWizzArd	Promise injection rocks :)
14:58	chouser	AWizzArd: nice. though that's likely heavier.
14:59	AWizzArd	yes
14:59	chouser	the Box in mine never escapes so there's no need for concurrency support (extra atoms, countdown latches, etc)
14:59	chouser	you really do want what rhickey described.
15:00	chouser	(swap2! stack (fn [v] [(pop v) (peek v)]))
15:00	AWizzArd	chouser: he described this where you just linked to?
15:00	chouser	(defn swap2! [a f & args] (let [box (clojure.lang.Box. nil)] (swap! a #(let [[state rtn] (apply f % args)] (set! (.val box) rtn) state)) (.val box)))
15:00	chouser	all he said was "you might want a version of swap! that takes a fn that returns 2 values, the one to swap and a return"
15:01	AWizzArd	ic
15:02	chouser	I would guess it would act something like my swap2! above
15:02	chouser	I wonder if 2 fns would be better than returning a vector.
15:04	chouser	(swap2! stack pop peek)
15:05	raek	implicit juxt...
15:06	chouser	hm, yeah.
15:06	raek	(swap2! stack (juxt pop peek))
15:06	_fogus_	implicit juxt is the point of th my cleave fn
15:07	_fogus_	"my" as in the one I stole from countless others
15:10	slyrus	oh, I've been wanting something like juxt and forgot that was there.
15:14	slyrus	except that the one I was thinking of would have been more like (my-juxt [+ - +] 42 7)
15:18	replaca	jave: sorry, got pulled into a meeting :-)
15:18	replaca	jave: if you add info-file building to the autodoc stuff, I'd be happy to merge it into the normal autodoc build
15:19	raek	_fogus_: what is this "cleave fn"? (loved the part about functions returning functions in JoY, btw)
15:19	jave	replaca: cool
15:19	replaca	jave: I don't think it should be too hard, you should be able to just have a "copy" of build-html.clj that is a build-info.clj
15:22	@rhickey	chouser: you wouldn't want to define sawp2! in terms of swap!
15:22	chouser	rhickey: yeah
15:22	chouser	those were just meant to demonstrate the api
15:22	chouser	demonstrate and try out
15:25	@rhickey	2 fns is interesting, because it demonstrates the only interesting case is where they are both functions of the prior value
15:25	@rhickey	since a function of the resulting value could be called after swap! returned
15:26	chouser	passing the same extra args to both seems a little arbitrary though
15:26	chouser	fine when there are no extras as with pop and peek, but otherwise not obviously desirable
15:26	@rhickey	I'm wondering about the utility in general. Does someone have a use case that doesn't involve side effects?
15:27	jave	replaca: I tried to run autodocs, but couldnt get it to run. README.md could mention how to run it maybe? I guessed "lein deps" but that failed on a missing artifact
15:30	chouser	There'd be a potential use case anytime you're doing something destructive to the value in the atom.
15:30	chouser	pop is one such, but also dissoc and disj
15:30	chouser	possibly even rest or next, I suppose.
15:32	replaca	jave: it's in a little bit of an intermediate state at the moment. It won't work with lein 1.2/1.3 as a plug-in, but I think it will work standalone
15:33	jave	but I need to build it to run it standalone right?
15:33	replaca	if you want to do it against clojure core, you'll need to set up the directories right casue that one is done mostly by magic
15:33	raek	could one make a priority (set-)queue using this and a sorted-set? the pop operation would let (first queue) and dissoc it...
15:34	@rhickey	chouser: it could just return both values and be done with it
15:34	replaca	more doc on running standalone is at http://tomfaulhaber.github.com/autodoc/
15:34	replaca	but it may have some probs right now
15:35	jave	ah Thanks
15:35	replaca	jave: to set up a clojure build you need to make a ../autodoc-work-area directory and make a clojure subdirectory there
15:35	chouser	rhickey: hm, nice. The cost of constructing the return value wouldn't be prohibitive?
15:36	hiredman	you could also use binding and set! to emulate multiple returns
15:36	jave	replaca: but in order to hack in info support I need to build autodocs right?
15:37	@rhickey	chouser: impossible to answer generally
15:37	replaca	jave: then clone clojure sources into src/ and autodoc/ and, in autodoc, do a "git checkout gh-pages"
15:37	replaca	jave: yeah, but that should work ...
15:38	chouser	rhickey: maybe two (or three?) flavors of swap! then? return old, return new, return both? :-/
15:38	@rhickey	chouser: pass in a pod
15:38	hiredman	(binding [r1 nil] (swap some-atom (fn [x] (set! r1 (pop x)) (peek x))))
15:38	replaca	jave: maybe it's breaking cause of new leiningen
15:38	hiredman	swap!
15:38	replaca	jave: I still have lein 1.1 on my machine and lein deps, lein uberjar seems to work fine
15:39	hiredman	s/clojurians/pod people/
15:40	chouser	oh, you just mean use a pod the way I used Box and hiredman used a Var?
15:40	jave	replaca: I commented out the lein dev deps in the project.clj, lein deps works then
15:42	jave	replaca: and "lein autodocs" seems to do something. crashes, but at least starts.
15:42	replaca	oh, ok. I'll check out what's up there.
15:42	simard	what is better practice, using [1 2 3] or '(1 2 3) and why ?
15:42	replaca	jave: don't use the lein plugin
15:42	replaca	are you aiming to create info file for clojure itself?
15:42	jave	yes
15:43	ihodes	simard: it depends on the situation, but generally [x y z] is used in favor of '(x y z) because it's easier to type and read, and vectors are often faster for the job.
15:43	jave	replaca: but I could try something simpler 1st
15:43	jave
15:43	replaca	jave: clojure itself is different than other things cause autodoc needs to play more games wrt versions and assumptions
15:43	simard	ihodes: k
15:43	replaca	jave: but it should be fine - just a different setup and invocation path
15:44	replaca	jave: in fact it may be better because I've been exercising it a lot lately :-)
15:44	raek	simard: when containing self-evaluating things only, they're pretty much equivalent (unless you care about what data structure it is). the vector form is the one I tend to see most as a sequential data literal (and has the most clojure-y feel, for me)
15:45	replaca	jave: just create the directories as described above and then run "./run.sh clojure false" from the root of your autodoc checkout tree
15:45	jave	replaca: ok
15:46	jlf`	anyone have a recommendation about which of the many couchdb clojars to use?
15:46	replaca	jave: it will generate new doc in ../autodoc-work-area/clojure/autodoc
15:46	jlf`	i initially tried the-kenny's, but compilation fails with " error: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/json/read__init.class or clojure/contrib/json/read.clj on classpath:"
15:46	@rhickey	chouser: pass the pod in
15:46	replaca	jave: interesting config stuff for clojure is in params/clojure/
15:47	s450r1	jlf`: clutch worked nicely for me
15:48	jlf`	s450r1: that narrows it to 6 :) which one in particular?
15:53	s450r1	jlf`: http://github.com/ashafa/clutch
15:55	jlf`	thanks
15:57	hiredman	I wonder if the clojure mailing list could just move to a new address and not tell people who want to argue about paren placement
15:57	Raynes	hiredman: I second that motion.
15:58	slyrus	:)
15:58	LauJensen	hehe
15:59	LauJensen	Whats the name of that thread?
15:59	LauJensen	"Lisp/Scheme style guide" ?
15:59	lancepantz	maybe just a faq would do
16:00	lancepantz	then point those qs at the faq and ignore thme
16:00	LauJensen	_fogus_: "The beauty of the painting is not that you hang it upside down" haha, classic
16:02	_fogus_	LauJensen: I've decided to never talk about parens again
16:02	hiredman	or just have gmail mark emails from greg as spam
16:02	LauJensen	_fogus_: Im sorry to hear that, I thought your post was hillarious
16:02	LauJensen	I actually never thought I would get to meet someone who could out-troll me :)
16:02	_fogus_	Funny, but pointless
16:05	_fogus_	If I would have first read the post equating people who dislike that style with segregationists, I would have never bothered to post in the first place.
16:05	_fogus_	Oh well, live and learn
16:05	somnium	waaay late just noticed 'the abomination', and can't resist pointing out that its the identity monad: `do x <- blah; y <- blarg; blotz; quux'
16:06	LauJensen	I love how monads turn everything into 'blah blarg blotz quux' :)
16:06	hiredman	what abomination?
16:06	somnium	LauJensen: ooh, let me dig up something really abomniable
16:06	LauJensen	hiredman: http://gist.github.com/560765#file_abomination_desolation.clj
16:07	somnium	https://gist.github.com/0508e6219da9ee0adc01
16:08	hiredman	yeah, it does look like chouser is reaching for do notation
16:08	somnium	(maybe it could scare some sense into the paren haters)
16:08	hiredman	well, there is the monad namespace in contrib
16:08	somnium	its awfully ungainly though
16:09	LauJensen	somnium: I cant look at that
16:09	somnium	:D
16:09	hiredman	somnium: but it also comes with a modaic io namespace
16:09	somnium	hiredman: isnt that just absurd in a non-lazy impure language?
16:10	somnium	or, you were probably being ironic
16:10	hiredman	but clojure operations can be lazy
16:10	hiredman	e.g. line-seq
16:10	hiredman	which can cause problems
16:11	hiredman	being able to safely compose that stuff is good
16:12	hiredman	I think arkham is an interpreter monad
16:12	hiredman	hmmm
16:12	somnium	hmm, Ill have to actually look at monadic io
16:12	hiredman	maybe not
16:13	somnium	I found a way to spoof return type inference, with a deftype UnTyped, then a protocol for each Monad that 'injects' its type into the UnTyped object
16:13	hiredman	not to say I have ever used contrib monads or the io stuff
16:13	ihodes	hiredman: maybe clojurebot could auto-kick anyone who mentions "style" and "parens" in the same sentence?
16:13	somnium	but once I got it working it all seemed a bit ridiculous
16:13	hiredman	clojurebot doesn't have ops
16:13	hiredman	or there would be a lot more kickage
16:15	hiredman	I've been trying to get return type inference for Archimedes working
16:15	hiredman	given two numeric types, and a hierarchy of numeric types and rules for return types based on that hierarchy
16:15	danlarkin	hindley milner?
16:16	hiredman	I have haerd of it, but I don't know anything about it except for the name
16:16	danlarkin	clojurebot: google hindley milner
16:17	hiredman	maybe I should look into it
16:17	danlarkin	noooooooo where's clojurebot
16:17	hiredman	oh
16:18	hiredman	huh
16:18	hiredman	netplit out in lalaland maybe
16:24	jlf	s450r1: would you mind sharing your [query_servers] incantation from local.ini? i get a 500 error when i run the usage example in the clutch readme, and i suspect i'm not specifying the clutch view server properly
16:27	s450r1	jlf: sorry, I never played with clutch's view server
16:28	jlf	oh, you just omit :language "clojure" from the get-database map?
16:29	hiredman	clojurebot: google hindley milner
16:29	clojurebot	First, out of 4760 results is:
16:29	clojurebot	Type inference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
16:29	clojurebot	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_inference
16:34	s450r1	jlf: I used (clutch/set-clutch-defaults! {:host host :port port}) and clutch/with-db to connect
16:38	somnium	maybe we should get comp.lang.lisp involved in the Lisp/Scheme Style Guide thread
16:39	Raynes	Oh boy.
16:46	LauJensen	I vaguely recall that theres some repl trick for seeing the constructors of a class?
16:48	somnium	,(ancestors (class 'foo))
16:48	clojurebot	#{java.util.concurrent.Callable clojure.lang.IMeta java.lang.Runnable java.io.Serializable java.lang.Object clojure.lang.IObj :clojure.contrib.generic/any clojure.lang.Named java.lang.Comparable clojure.lang.AFn clojure.lang.IFn}
16:48	somnium	like that?
16:49	LauJensen	No - I mean something like (Constructor type1 type2 type3)
16:49	somnium	oh, c.c.repl-utils/show?
16:49	LauJensen	maybe, I'll check
16:51	chouser	(show Integer #(re-find #"<init>" (:text %)))
16:56	LauJensen	nice chouser, thanks
16:56	LauJensen	and thanks to somnium for pointing the way
17:03	chouser	(doseq [c (.getConstructors Integer)] (println c))
17:04	LauJensen	nice
17:04	jfields	would you use update-in here: (swap! resting update-in [client-order-id] - quantity)
17:06	Chousuke	looks fine to me.
17:07	jfields	cool. just wanted to make sure there's not a better fn to use when your keyseq is (count 1)
17:07	Chousuke	heh, yeah. a special case called just "update" or update-key would look a bit better.
17:22	AWizzArd	Anyone here who programmed an application for Android in Clojure?
17:36	defn	"Wait, what does your startup do?"
17:36	Anniepoo_	AWizzArd - find George Jahad, he's done it
17:36	defn	So, basically, it's like an API for pets.
17:37	kotarak	It starts up?
17:37	defn	So basically, it's like Flickr for ex-convicts!
17:37	defn	lol. http://itsthisforthat.com/
17:39	tomoj	"node.js server for collegiate jewish women"
17:39	defn	bahahaha.
17:39	defn	Finally!
17:39	defn	I like the ones that are for 'nature blogs'.
17:40	Anniepoo_	lol - a plugin manager for government corruption
17:41	defn	hahahahahahahaha. ah man, brilliant site.
17:42	Anniepoo_	lol - the scariest part is that one small part of my brain is going 'hmm... that's not a bad idea'
17:42	defn	yeah I know -- same here...
17:42	defn	So basically, it's like a mac app for ugg boots.
17:43	defn	a mapreduce query for baristas. lol
17:46	Anniepoo_	even scarier, I've seen some of these deployed - there IS a flickr for Second Life
17:46	defn	yeah i think ive seen a "jewbook" or something -- so there's your collegiate jewish women app
17:47	Anniepoo_	LOL - 'eco friendly marketplace for hunters'
17:47	Anniepoo_	hey, government corruption's a multi-trillion dollar business globally
17:47	Anniepoo_	owning the API for it would be worth big bucks
17:49	Anniepoo_	8c( sadly, the truth is, 'they get paid'
17:49	defn	slyrus: yeah, they only pay a dime (literally 10c) for each layer of depth in the hierarchy
17:49	defn	gotta get deeper! (that's what she said)
17:49	Anniepoo_	viral marketer for medical marijuana - sadly, done thousands of times
17:49	defn	seriously?
17:50	defn	So basically it's like a cloud storage provider for the homeless.
17:50	Anniepoo_	hmm.... probably not commercial - a wikipedia for Erlang
17:51	Anniepoo_	LOL - CRM for adult dating
17:52	Anniepoo_	oh heck, there's one I seriously considered
18:00	defn	game-based incentive for beer.
18:00	defn	been done.
18:00	defn	brick-and-mortar solution for government corruption. heh
18:01	Anniepoo_	been done
18:01	Anniepoo_	recommendation engine for ex-convicts
18:05	Anniepoo_	somewhere there's a movie treatment generator that scrapes IMDB
18:09	defn	haha -- this one produces a lot of funny results: playboy for ____
18:09	defn	as in playboy for government corruption, ex-convicts
18:18	Chousuke	"cash4gold for world of warcraft" duh
18:21	defn	digg for highway accidents
18:47	slyrus	what the hell is an artefact anyway? and why don't they spell it artifact?
18:58	Anniepoo_	hmm.... should be possible to make a version of this that actually generates the code....socially, that seems like a bad idea.
18:58	Anniepoo_	maybe you could automate the entire startup process
18:59	slyrus	"Normally you do not need to set the level of a logger programmatically. This is usually done in configuration files." Oh java-people, why, oh why, do you crave such needless complexity? Oh wait, it's because gosling et al. didn't give you a REPL. nvm.
19:00	Anniepoo_	for that matter, exactly WHY do we need to change languages to set the level of the logger?
19:02	slyrus	which, for me, is another way of saying how-the-&$!)^% do I meaningfully turn on logging in one of these accursed, omnipresent log4j loggers from the clojure REPL?
19:03	slyrus	I can .setLevel the relevant logger, but darned if I know where the output is going
19:03	Anniepoo_	I'm glad to hear I'm not the only person who finds this immensely annoying
19:04	Anniepoo_	slyrus, I think you have to change the class of the logger to change where it's going
19:04	ssideris	persumably stdout for warnings and such, and stderr for errors
19:04	slyrus	holy-misguided object orientation batman!
19:05	Anniepoo_	log4j has a bunch of kinds of loggers - the idea is to plug in the one you need
19:05	slyrus	then again the logger has to work in tomcat, netbeans, eclipse and a bunch of other crap I have absolutely no interest in
19:05	Anniepoo_	which is borked
19:05	slyrus	oh, clearly I just need to call the AbstractDelegateLoggerFactoryGeneratorFactory
19:27	ihodes	is there a particular reason line-seq is in the core lib instead of in, e.g., clojure.java.io?
19:28	hiredman	c.l.i didn't exist when line-seq was written
19:28	hiredman	c.j.i
19:28	ihodes	hiredman: right, but it's 1.2 now; couldn't it have been moved?
19:29	ihodes	hiredman: i guess i'm more interested if it was usuable sans BufferedReasder. direct interop before (reader… and the like
19:29	ihodes	usable* and BufferedReader* excuse me
19:29	hiredman	it is
19:29	hiredman	and was
19:29	hiredman	moving it would break any code that uses it
19:30	ihodes	how was it usable?
19:30	hiredman	(line-seq (-> "foo.txt" File. FileReader. BufferedReader.))
19:30	hiredman	pardon me
19:31	hiredman	(-> "foo.txt" File. FileReader. BufferedReader. line-seq)
19:31	ihodes	right, that used BufferedReader directly. which is fine, i was just wondering if that'd always been the case, or if there used to be something in clojure.core that could be used with line-seq
19:32	hiredman	whats wrong with using BufferedReader directly?
19:32	ihodes	nothing at all, just wondering
19:42	bhenry	is there anything in clojure that works kind of like a reverse engineer of format? ie (extract "%d-%d-%d %d:%d:%d" "2010-08-31 14:52:31") => [2010 8 31 14 52 31]
19:42	defn	regex?
19:42	clojurebot	Sometimes people have a problem, and decide to solve it with regular expressions. Now they have two problems.
19:42	defn	haha
19:45	bhenry	defn i think python has something like what i'm talking about. i was curious about an existing function. i don't really want to write crazy reg-ex beasts
19:45	defn	bhenry: im not familiar with one but well
19:45	defn	you could write a macro
19:46	bhenry	i think i'll just pull apart the pieces
19:46	Anniepoo_	you're looking for something equivilent to sscanf?
19:47	bhenry	Anniepoo_: yes
19:48	Anniepoo_	I'd write the regex monster once
19:49	ssideris	the regex is not that big anyway: \d{4}-\d\d-\d\d\s+\d\d:\d\d:\d\d
19:49	ssideris	xm... no groups though
19:50	ihodes	(re-split #"-\| \|:" "string") right? don't recall offhand
19:50	ihodes	then map int
19:51	ihodes	,(clojure.string/split "2010-08-31 14:52:31" #":\|-\| ")
19:51	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.string
19:52	ihodes	(map #(Integer. %) (clojure.string/split "2010-08-31 14:52:31" #":\|-\| ")) works in my REPL
19:53	ihodes	though it's not extracting your specific format.
19:53	bhenry	i'll see if i can make it work
19:54	ihodes	another option for parsing times is looking at clj-time. you can specify a time format, and it'll return a DateSomething object that you can do whatever with.
19:55	bhenry	(map #(Integer. %) (clojure.contrib.string/split #":\|-\| " "2010-08-31 14:52:31")) worked in my repl
19:55	bhenry	,(map #(Integer. %) (clojure.contrib.string/split #":\|-\| " "2010-08-31 14:52:31"))
19:55	clojurebot	(2010 8 31 14 52 31)
19:55	bhenry	nice thanks ihodes
19:56	chouser	you can just use .split on a regex
19:56	chouser	,(map #(Integer. %) (.split #":\|-\| " "2010-08-31 14:52:31"))
19:56	clojurebot	(2010 8 31 14 52 31)
19:58	ihodes	right, and split is on clojure.string now anyway :)
20:12	ninjudd	hmm, does anyone know why the separator is the second argument of clojure.string/split but it is the first argument of clojure.string/join?
20:17	chouser	oh man
20:17	chouser	seriously?
20:18	ninjudd	chouser: yeah. i thought there might be some deep reason for it
20:19	chouser	probably because the string is the first arg to all of them.
20:19	tomoj	ninjudd: which clojure.string/split are you looking at?
20:19	tomoj	oh, I see
20:20	ninjudd	hmm
20:20	ihodes	ninjudd: i always have to go back to the docs when i use split…
20:20	ihodes	maybe one day i'll remember
20:20	chouser	I wouldn't bother using it. Just use .split
20:21	ihodes	but it has the dot yecck. ;) i think i will-thanks for the pointer
20:22	ninjudd	yeah. the only thing i don't like about String.split is that you can't pass a regex in, it has to be a string that it compiles to a regex
20:22	chouser	well, and it'll come back to bite me as clojure reaches other platforms.
20:22	chouser	ninjudd: use regex's split instead of string's.
20:23	chouser	,(.split #"/" "a/b/c/d/e/f" 4)
20:23	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@92949f>
20:23	chouser	,(map keyword (.split #"/" "a/b/c/d/e/f" 4))
20:23	clojurebot	(:a :b :c :d/e/f)
20:23	ninjudd	aha. of course!
20:25	sleepynate	clojurebox on windows makes me sad :/
20:26	chouser	ninjudd: it took me a surprisingly long time to find that.
20:28	defn	sleepynate: is that the one that includes emacs and stuff?
20:28	sleepynate	defn: yea. i'm a vim guy... and i have all linux boxes except the one vista machine. transitioning is rough :)
20:29	sleepynate	without starting and editor war: "the only emacs command I know is C-c C-x"
20:30	sleepynate	but getting vimclojure working on *nix boxes was hard enough... screw trying it on windows
20:31	ssideris	in perl, there is this compiler hack (built-in) that allows you to write qw(a b c) and it compiles as ("a", "b", "c"). Is the following a correct re-implementation of something equivalent in clojure?
20:31	ssideris	(defmacro qw [& symbols] `(quote ~(map #(str %) symbols)))
20:31	defn	sleepynate: on windows ive been using netbeans
20:32	sleepynate	defn: ahh yea. counterclockwise was my fallback for a while
20:32	defn	using emacs on windows is kind of painful
20:32	sleepynate	but i'm also a scheme-not-java person.. and eclipse took care of that til i got used to it
20:32	defn	so many of the things written for it are not for windows
20:32	defn	plus windows sucks and i hate it
20:33	defn	so there's that
20:33	sleepynate	haha, right?
20:35	defn	I think Clojure running on the CLR is awesome because it's the CLR
20:35	defn	err because it's clojure
20:36	defn	not because it's on the CLR :)
20:36	sleepynate	sure. doesn't that break things like Math/sqrt though?
20:39	chouser	ssideris: looks good to me
20:42	ssideris	chouser: thanks... my main problem is that I don't think I fully grasp what's going on here... the macro is passed a number of symbols that are then converted to a Seq of strings which is then what?
20:42	ssideris	...inserted into the parse tree?
20:42	ssideris	i think i'm having trouble getting rid of the idea that macros are about generating text
20:43	ssideris	generating text as in generating code
20:43	defn	macros are about generating macros that generate macros that generate macros that generate macros...that generate text
20:43	coldhead	yo dawg i heard you like generating macros?
20:43	ssideris	hahaha
20:43	ssideris	yeah i know about the recursiveness and all
20:44	ssideris	but is the end result really text?
20:44	ssideris	in rhickey's talk he seems to imply that they generate sexps
20:45	defn	code is data
20:45	defn	wouldn't be a lisp without it
20:47	ssideris	yes, but you said "text"
20:47	ssideris	you didn't say "code"
20:50	Derander	sleepynate: my dependence on *nix has gotten to the point where when I'm forced to use windows for a sustained period of time I will use a linux vm.
20:56	sleepynate	Derander: yea... i really only boot windows to play battlefield with all my buddies who married or moved away :)
20:57	sleepynate	Derander: "no honey, go on out with the girls... you need some woman time!" ... <launch vent> ... "k guys, game on"
20:59	Derander	hahaha.
21:27	simard	is there a function/macro that does the same thing as macroexpand but recursively ?
21:28	sleepynate	simard: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/a1eff35124b923ef8539a35e7a292813ba54a0e0/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L3086 <--- looks pretty recursive to me
21:29	tomoj	maybe you want c.c.macro-utils/mexpand-all
21:31	sleepynate	good call
22:48	slyrus	oh, this makes me feel better: "All of this content is automatically generated by Maven on behalf of the project."
22:51	slyrus	java: "we've got a lot of libraries!" or "you're going to need a lot of libraries, even if you only want one or two!"
23:01	AWizzArd	/away away
23:01	AWizzArd	oops