#clojure – 2010-07-12

2010-07-12

02:21	Licenser	Good Morning my lispy friends
02:56	unfo-	{{citation needed}} to prove we are lispy! (too much wikipedia...)
02:58	Licenser	unfo-: {{citation}} You are lispy
02:59	unfo-	lol ;)
03:48	benatkin	thirddog: I'd be interested in an iBatis-inspired sql library, too.
04:33	LauJensen	Good morning all
04:34	ponzao____	Hi, I've got a Java method that takes a variable amount of arguments. I noticed I have to wrap the arguments inside an array for it to work in Clojure. Is there a clean way to avoid this?
04:34	Licenser	Morning LauJensen
04:35	LuminousMonkey	Moring LauJensen
04:35	Licenser	ponzao____: I think what java does with variable Rgs is exactly that, wrapp ing ghem in an array
04:38	ponzao____	Licenser, yes that is what it does, but it is a lot cleaner to do Arrays.asList(1, 2, 3, 4) instead of (Arrays/asList (to-array [1 2 3 4])).
04:39	Licenser	ponzao____: Well you can always make a wrapper function ;)
04:39	Licenser	But if you want a list isnt there a way to cate it from a collection
04:39	ponzao____	Licenser, yeah, I was just wondering if there already was a solution I didn't know of, no sense in reinventing the wheel :)
04:40	ponzao____	Licenser, that was just an example, my actual use case is different, but syntactically the same.
04:41	Licenser	Ah okay
04:41	Licenser	well make a .* macro :)
04:41	Licenser	You even could get it with reflections eww
04:41	Licenser	W
04:43	ponzao____	Licenser, ok. I am very new to Clojure and I've been very impressed with its Java interoperability. The varargs was the first inconvenience and a very minor one at that.
04:45	Licenser	nods yap sopunds not perfe but actually no problem for me wipth that upto now
05:01	LauJensen	ponzao____: Is it a generic class you had problems with ?
05:10	ponzao____	LauJensen, the method signature is: public Q from(Expr<?>... args)
05:11	LauJensen	ponzao____: I was wondering about the concrete name, as I wanted to experiment with it, and see it if could pass in collections
05:12	ponzao____	LauJensen, concrete name, sorry I am not following.
05:12	LauJensen	like java.lang.String
05:16	ponzao____	LauJensen, com.mysema.query.sql.AbstractSQLQuery
05:16	LauJensen	thanks
05:23	mmarczyk	LauJensen: just watched your latest Emacs screencast... that is awesome!!!
05:24	mmarczyk	LauJensen: may I express hope that I you might some day release your Emacs config (I do not dare to ask for a commentary) :-)
05:35	Lajla	Bahman, don't tell me you're that prude.
05:35	Lajla	Besides, it saves you the cost of a toilet.
05:36	Bahman	Lajla: Any unknown creature may be dangerous ;-)
05:37	Lajla	Bahman, I am the second best programmer in the world, right after the Microsoft Chief Software Architect, you should know that by now.
05:38	Bahman	Lajla: If he's the best programmer of the world, then I'm Albert Einstein for no doubt.
05:38	Lajla	Bahman, but he invented the long filename system on NTFS!
05:38	Lajla	ोAnd BASIC seems to be his favour language!
05:42	Bahman	Lajla: Well these are admirable inventions except that he's just 20 years late to come up with them.
05:44	Lajla	Bahman, but he is rich, he must be the best!
05:51	Bahman	Lajla: Yes he's the best. But best of what?
05:51	Bahman	Perhaps he's got all that money because of the inventions you said earlier.
05:52	Lajla	Bahman, but he gave us net based applications.
05:52	Bahman	It's interesting that being 20 years late in inventing is so money-making.
05:52	Bahman	Timing is everything.
05:52	Lajla	And enabled us to send XML messages.
05:52	Lajla	Through SOAP
05:52	Lajla	THROUGH SOAP!
05:52	Bahman	Praise him!
05:53	Bahman	These men are bloody rare.
06:08	sandos	xb
06:30	Lajla	Bahman, you are my fire,
06:30	Lajla	my one desire
06:30	Lajla	believe when I say
06:30	Lajla	that I want it that way.
06:30	Bahman	Lajla: Oh yes. I hope you're just high.
06:31	Lajla	Bahman, I don't even drink man.
06:31	Lajla	I don't need it
06:31	Lajla	I get high on stealing candy from babies.
06:45	ponzao____	LauJensen, the class is from Querydsl (http://source.mysema.com/display/querydsl/Querydsl). I was just testing during the weekend if I could get Clojure working with it.
06:46	LauJensen	You can get just about anything working. I was just wondering if you get get around (into-array [1 2 3]) and only pass [1 2 3] for varargs hidden in arrays
06:51	mmarczyk	if you mean simply passing in a vector instead of an array to a method -- without some sort of wrapper macro or the explicit into-array -- then no
06:58	LauJensen	sure
07:09	_willtim_	a LINQ style API for clojure would be nice
07:10	_willtim_	the 'from' function would need to do a dispatch (for multiple providers) and be a macro in order to get at the expression trees
07:10	_willtim_	tricky
07:25	ponzao____	willtim, doesn't ClojureQL do something like that already?
07:40	willtim	ClojureQL looks really nice but afaik only does SQL
07:42	Lajla	willtim, you are a teddy bear filled with used batteries, that makes you cute.
07:42	willtim	What's nice about LINQ is that it unifies comprehensions and SQL
07:43	willtim	whereas ClojureQL doesn't really integrate with the for macro
07:43	willtim	or work-like the for macro
07:49	cemerick	Lajla: I often fail to comprehend many of your messages.
07:50	cemerick	willtim: it seems the challenge would be to make a "clojure LINQ" as capable/natural to use as all the usual seq tools we have.
07:50	Lajla	cemerick, I get that a lot.
07:51	Lajla	I do have a diagnosis schizophrenia running around though, it might be related.
07:53	cemerick	willtim: after looking at a few LINQ samples (it's been a while), how would for not do the job as-is
07:53	cemerick	?
07:56	willtim	yes for is very powerful
07:57	willtim	although it lacks groupby, orderby
07:57	willtim	there is a nice paper by SPJ and Wadler called 'Comprehensive Comprehensions'
07:57	willtim	would be very easy to implement in Clojure (no type complexity!)
07:58	cemerick	well, for is intended to be lazy, so grouping and ordering aren't germane in that context
07:58	willtim	but LINQ would also render a comprehension into SQL
07:58	willtim	cemerick, very true
08:04	cemerick	If I were querying SQL databases (been a while there, too), I think I'd much rather write SQL than use something like LINQ. There's always that edge case that the underlying database supports, but the driver/provider papers over.
08:05	cemerick	That said, it'd be interesting to see a stab at it in Clojure. I wonder how much it'd pay off to mix with the various datalog stuffs that have been done.
08:06	willtim	we certainly wouldn't have to modify the compiler to produce expression trees ;)
08:07	ponzao____	cemerick, type-safety is a huge advantage when using LINQ.
08:08	cemerick	ponzao____: I suppose, if that sort of thing is important to you. :-)
08:09	ponzao____	cemerick, when using a language in which ones mindset is set on the compiler helping you then yes it is very important :)
08:09	cemerick	sure
08:10	cemerick	and I hear tooling is a big draw for linq usage -- being able to complete on database columns (turned into object fields?) in the same editor as your C#, etc. Doesn't excite me though.
08:19	ponzao____	cemerick, same advantage exists in a lot of query languages, I find it useful. I am guessing LINQ doesn't restrict you from doing native SQL if needed for that special case.
08:22	cemerick	execStream
08:22	cemerick	bah
08:23	cemerick	Yeah, I'm certain it's useful, as long as your database/language/tooling choices line up. In my current typical case of couchdb/clojure/enclojure, that's not the case though. :-)
08:26	ponzao____	cemerick, Sure. Eclipse is fantastic for Java development and I couldn't live without it, but for Lua and now Clojure I go with a normal editor, I won't mention the name because I am guessing most of the people here are Emacs users...
08:27	cemerick	hardly all ;-)
08:27	cemerick	but most, perhaps
09:07	Licenser	Weeh work Day Done :D
10:24	ct_	why does (take 5 (fib3)) always print 'm' ? (defn fib3
10:24	ct_	([]
10:24	ct_	(fib3 0 1))
10:24	ct_	([m n]
10:24	ct_	(lazy-seq (do
10:24	ct_	(println "m:" m)
10:24	ct_	(cons m (fib3 n (+ n m)))))))
10:29	ct_	arg. I see it. (take 5) is _always_ the first time through. Defining a var to the take result and then iterating through that doesn't print m.
10:31	ct_	Hmm. no. of course the new seq doesn't print m. I still don't know why (take 5) _always_ prints m. I thought lazy-seq cached the results...
10:37	Lajla	ct_, I worship your shadow
10:38	ct_	what does that mean?
10:39	Raynes	It means he's being an idiot.
10:39	ct_	Oh, heh..
10:41	Lajla	ct_, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Worship_His_Shadow
10:46	neotyk	ct_: fib3 could provide different results each run, not that it does
10:46	neotyk	but in general it would not be to good to memoize all lazy-seq
10:47	neotyk	,(doc memoize)
10:47	clojurebot	"([f]); Returns a memoized version of a referentially transparent function. The memoized version of the function keeps a cache of the mapping from arguments to results and, when calls with the same arguments are repeated often, has higher performance at the expense of higher memory use."
10:49	ct_	Thanks. I'm stuck atm. I'd really like memoize to be used. I'm using fibonacci to just get an understanding of how I can create a lazy-seq of a seq created by a fn where the seq is not infinite.
10:49	neotyk	ct_: shameless plug http://codemeself.blogspot.com/2010/06/clojurecorelazy-seq-makes-sense.html
10:50	neotyk	ct_: though it should cache if I look at
10:50	neotyk	,(doc lazy-seq)
10:50	clojurebot	"([& body]); Takes a body of expressions that returns an ISeq or nil, and yields a Seqable object that will invoke the body only the first time seq is called, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent seq calls."
10:50	ct_	nice article. I read it last night.
10:50	neotyk	ct_: thanks!
10:51	slyrus	morning
10:51	slyrus	anyone know of a clojure library for _undirected_ graphs?
10:55	ct_	Maybe I'm still misunderstanding lazy-seq. I'd like to create a seq of 20 items. each item is created by a fn. I only want the fn to be called once for each item. I think I'm wrapped around the axel on this..
10:57	neotyk	ct_: check this out http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/78ee9b3e64c5ac6082fb223fc79292175e8e4f0c/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/lazy_seqs.clj#L82
10:58	Chousuke	ct_: can't you use map or repeatedly or something?
10:58	ct_	Thanks. I've seen that too.
10:58	ct_	repeatedly works for infinite sequences.
10:58	Chousuke	ct_: using lazy-seq directly is not often necessary.
10:58	ct_	I actually tried that.
10:58	Chousuke	it works for finite seqs too :)
10:58	Chousuke	(take n (repeatedly ...)) :P
10:58	ct_	I returned 'nil' after my fns are done but ...
10:58	ct_	hmm.
10:59	Chousuke	or take-while somepred ....
10:59	ct_	take-while sounds interesting
11:00	ct_	Q: (take n (repeatedly ...)) - I did this, but I didn't know how to limit the size of the seq. returning nil didn't stop take
11:00	ct_	(take kept going what it was told and returning nil for items beyond 20 :-)
11:01	ct_	going->doing
11:24	neotyk	ct_: lazy-seq is cacheing
11:24	neotyk	,(let [a (lazy-seq (cons (do (println "one") 1) (lazy-seq (cons (do (println "two") 2) nil))))] (first a) (first a))
11:24	clojurebot	1
11:24	clojurebot	one
11:24	neotyk	ct_: notice that one is printed only once
11:25	neotyk	issue might be that you define it as fn
11:36	ct_	what you write makes perfect sense. Your article shows 1/one very well. I'm not sure why lazy-seq is not caching fib3: (defn fib3 [m n] (lazy-seq (do
11:36	ct_	<ct_> (println "m:" m)
11:36	ct_	<ct_> (cons m (fib3 n (+ n m)))))))
11:36	ct_	m is printed every time - as if lazy-seq isn't caching.
11:37	ct_	(take 5 (fib3))
11:39	Chousuke	ct_: calling the function always generates a new seq
11:39	neotyk	ct_: because you are creating new lazy-seq each time you call fib3
11:39	ct_	heh
11:39	ct_	tyvm
11:54	arohner	is there a function to replace the value of an expression with another value?
11:55	arohner	I want something like (replace (foo) {1 "1", :a :b})
11:55	arohner	which would return "1" if foo returned 1, and :b if foo returned :a
12:03	hiredman	arohner: how is that in anyway different from ({1 "1", :a :b} (foo))
12:04	arohner	hiredman: I want the expression to return foo's value if it is not present in the replacement map
12:04	arohner	(or (get map (foo)) (foo)), without the double evaluation
12:04	hiredman	you don't need to use get for that
12:05	ct_	Chousuke/neotyk - thanks again ! I have everything working on my end. I really appreciate your help.
12:05	arohner	hiredman: actually, get has a not-found, which may do what I want
12:35	Licenser	aloa my lispy friends
12:36	TeXnomancy	Licenser: cookies?
12:36	Licenser	TeXnomancy: Way thank you but it is too hot, even for cookies :(
12:42	esj	Ello Licenser
12:42	Licenser	aloa esj
12:54	konr	What was that function like filter that returned matching elements inside a nested structure?
14:01	rbxbx	After reading http://gist.github.com/470031 (jkk's examples gist) I've changed my mind and decided it's a good thing :D
14:15	jkkramer	rbxbx: you thought getting examples at the repl was a bad idea previously?
14:44	rbxbx	jkkramer: I thought it was superfluous :(
14:44	rbxbx	but I've since seen the error of my ways.
15:36	dsop	?
15:37	technomancy	dsop: is there a specific reason you think it belongs in contrib instead of in a 3rd-party library?
15:38	dsop	technomancy: I think a lot of people need sha-1 or md5, so that's why I think it belongs to contrib
15:39	technomancy	dsop: right now stuart H is pushing for a more modular build of contrib, so I think it's not a good idea to add new namespaces right now
15:39	technomancy	especially with 1.2 around the corner.
15:40	technomancy	I suggest releasing it as a 3rd-party lib anyway, it's not like it's hard to add third-party libraries.
15:40	dsop	technomancy: yes that's okay. I can wait and redo the proposal if contrib contributors like the general idea
15:40	technomancy	it's not like the old days
15:41	dsop	technomancy: well maybe it's because of my scripting languages background but I found it very handy to have sha-1 distributed with contrib
15:41	hiredman	meh
15:41	hiredman	contrib
15:41	technomancy	well some of us are trying to reduce our contrib usage
15:41	hiredman	make a jar, push to clojars
15:41	technomancy	if you make it a third-party library, you will be able to accept patches without a CA, and you'll also be able to release new versions at your own discretion.
15:42	dsop	hiredman: that's exactly what I don't like
15:42	hiredman	why not?
15:42	dsop	because a developer doesn't know if the maintainer of the 3rd party library doesn't do BC breaks or something
15:42	hiredman	BC breaks?
15:42	dsop	if it's in contrib you can rely on some basic backward compatbility
15:43	hiredman	dsop: you can just use an old version
15:43	dsop	hiredman: oh certainly, until you once you have to upgrade for whatever reason
15:43	technomancy	dsop: http://semver.org
15:43	hiredman	dsop: not always
15:43	lancepantz	think it makes as much sense in contrib as other stuff, like clojure.contrib.graph
15:44	technomancy	lancepantz: lots of stuff made it into contrib for historical reasons
15:44	lancepantz	but i am dying for contrib to be split up
15:44	technomancy	lancepantz: it used to be that was the only non-painful way to distribute your code
15:44	hiredman	and you are just pushing the load of keeping the code up to date from the library writer to whoever is involved in the contrib release process
15:44	dsop	technomancy: I know semantic versioning. It's just that I would trust contrib to be bc more than 3rd party libraries
15:44	lancepantz	right
15:44	hiredman	which slows releases
15:45	hiredman	and makes a burden for others who might not give a damn about your code, instead of, you know, having the person who cared enough to write it in the first place keep it up to date
15:45	technomancy	dsop: we've had lots of backwards-compatibility issues in contrib; it's part of the reason I am trying to reduce usage of it.
15:45	dsop	technomancy: yes, and it's probably worse in 3rd party libraries
15:46	technomancy	dsop: it varies in 3rd-party libraries
15:46	hiredman	nope
15:47	dsop	technomancy: exactly, and contrib will probably move into the direction of more stable releases
15:47	dsop	technomancy: anyway I got your point, I was just hoping to get some feedback on the general idea
15:47	dsop	technomancy: because I'm new to clojure and my approach might not be very lispy
15:47	hsarvell	sha1 feels like something basic enough to be in contrib
15:48	hiredman	your funeral
15:50	dsop	:)
15:56	neotyk	Hello my favorite irc channel
15:59	AWizzArd	Hi neotyk. Sorry about yesterdays football match :)
16:00	neotyk	AWizzArd: I overslept it
16:01	kotarak	AWizzArd: it was bad karma
16:01	neotyk	my kids do that all the time to me, I think I put them in bed, but it is other way around :)
16:02	dsop	overslept a football match?
16:02	dsop	the final..
16:02	neotyk	AWizzArd: my team didn't even qualify to group :P
16:02	neotyk	dsop: true, true
16:03	neotyk	if NL would win, I would be woke up. Most likely
16:03	neotyk	and I prefer Cojure than football
16:04	kotarak	Well, NL thought it was kind of Kung Fu championship, not soccer.
16:06	AWizzArd	kotarak: ;)
16:35	islon	i'm trying to run lein 1.2 RC2 under windows with last clojure from gi but when i execute "lein swank" it raises an exception "Exception in thread "main" clojure.lang.LispReader$ReaderException: java.lang.Exception: Invalid token: C:"
16:35	islon	*git
16:41	cmcclell	Quick question: I have slime 07062010 working against ccl&sbcl, but cannot get it to work with clojure (against swank-clojure 1.3.0). No special forms will execute - it just hangs emacs. Any ideas?
16:44	arohner	cmcclell: I'm not entirely sure that version of slime is compatible
16:44	arohner	cmcclell: try this one http://github.com/technomancy/slime
16:45	cmcclell	arohner: I'll try it. My alterative is to split my .emacs file, and use load-file to bring in the common-lisp one when I don't want to use clj
16:50	cmcclell	(when
16:50	cmcclell	(load
16:50	cmcclell	(expand-file-name "~/.emacs.d/elpa/package.el"))
16:50	cmcclell	(package-initialize))
16:51	cmcclell	Using elpa, that seems to be enough to be able to connect to a clojure:swank started by maven
16:52	cmcclell	using slime 04042010
17:19	epochwolf	Is http://pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure still a good book for learning Clojure?
17:21	lancepantz	epochwolf: its better than nothing, but i think the joy of clojure is much better
17:22	neotyk	epochwolf: is very good start
17:23	epochwolf	do I need java experience?
17:23	epochwolf	or better, is there a website for my newbie questions
17:24	qbg	As long as you stay in Clojure land you shouldn't need much java experience
17:25	rbxbx	epochwolf: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1508609 ;)
17:27	cmcclell	Joy of Clojure shouldn't be a first read for a person new to clojure
17:27	epochwolf	lancepantz, neotyk, rbxbx: thanks
17:30	cmcclell	epochwolf: Practical Clojure is also decent; Clojure In Action is shaping up to be nice, but it is not out yet :(
17:30	neotyk	epochwolf: or better write clojure code and ask here :)
17:35	kib2	Hi. Does someone knows where can I find an article/tutorial on how to transform sexpressions to xml/html ?
17:36	jkkramer	kib2: hiccup is a lib that does that
17:36	jkkramer	kib2: well, to HTML, not XML per se
17:36	kib2	jkkramer: Yes I know, but it is just for personal satisfaction :)
17:37	jkkramer	kib2: you could look at the sources to hiccup to see how it's doing it
17:37	arohner	kib2: then read the source for hiccup. It's pretty short
17:37	arohner	enlive may do that as well
17:43	jneira	hi people
17:44	nickik	Hello, I'm new to emacs and I want to install rainbow parens. But I have no idea how that works. Where do I put this script and make it default=
17:45	nickik	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2413047/how-do-i-get-rainbow-parentheses-in-emacs
17:45	jneira	when i am writing a function I always think that there will be a better version in contrib or somewhere :-/
17:46	cmcclell	Anyone have any good information on clojure performance in general? We are evaluating the language as our functional alternative on the JVM A lot of discussions seem way out of date.
17:46	nickik	I know what you mean
17:46	jneira	jum personally i dont like rainbow parens ...
17:46	jneira	i didnt try install it
17:48	kotarak	jneira: this is not always the case: see reductions
17:49	jneira	jum @cmcclell i think, generally speaking clojure can have the same performance than java
17:49	konr	What was that function like filter that returned matching elements inside a nested structure?
17:49	jneira	is not reductions good?
17:51	cmcclell	jneira: thanks. Basically, when it comes down to debate I know the three things people will use to say no to clojure at my company will be: performance, tool support and "lisp is hard to teach"
17:53	jneira	konr with clojure.zip i think you could do so
17:53	qbg	cmcclell: What do you want to use clojure for?
17:53	konr	jneira: thanks!
17:54	dnolen	cmcclell: outside of code involving a lot of primitive arithmetic operations, I've rarely heard people complain about Clojure's performance.
17:54	technomancy	clojurebot: performance?
17:54	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/java_interop#toc46
17:54	cmcclell	qbg: We have sets of problems that will be easily solved by functional means. Currently, we use .NET and the JVM. On the .NET side of the house F# has been used for a while to great effect. On the JVM side of the house, we've been java or bust for a while. But now, we're going to pick a language we will support on the JVM for problems best solved via fn programming.
17:55	technomancy	clojurebot: performance is http://meshy.org/2009/12/13/widefinder-2-with-clojure.html
17:55	clojurebot	Ok.
17:56	jneira	jum "yes sir" would be better
17:57	jneira	i have wrote a function wich extracts the value o a n-dimension matrix
17:58	jneira	Already exists somewhere?
17:59	kotarak	jneira: reductions in contrib was terribly out-of-date. The new core version is much faster.
17:59	jneira	fe (nthn [[[4]]] [0 0 0]) -> 4
17:59	kib2	sorry, guys: baby problem. Thanks for your answers, I've already read hiccup source, but found them difficult to understand (I'm a Clojure newbie)
18:00	cmcclell	technomancy: thanks good article
18:00	jneira	kotarak: jum ok but sure the old version is better than mine :-P
18:02	kib2	In fact I've found an article (in Common Lisp) here: http://cybertiggyr.com/lh/ and translated the code to Clojure. But then I realized the author was doing it wrong: he just forgot about escaping "<",">", etc. chars.
18:02	jneira	this is my take http://gist.github.com/473128 sure there is a better version ;-)
18:06	jkkramer	,(get-in [[[4]]] [0 0 0])
18:06	clojurebot	4
18:06	kotarak	jneira: (reduce nth coll coords)
18:07	kotarak	,(reduce nth [[[4]]] [0 0 0])
18:07	clojurebot	4
18:07	jneira	ñam always reduce
18:07	jneira	i am rusty
18:08	jneira	thanks kotarak!
18:09	kotarak	jneira: loop with accumulator cries for reduce, jkkramer also has an idea with get-in, but maybe nth is faster on vectors?
18:09	kotarak	dunno
18:10	jneira	jum
18:19	jneira	note to myself: when do you have a recursive accumulative function think in a possible reduced reduce version (or fold)
18:41	akhudek	hey everyone, is there a reason that the sh function in clojure.java.shell prints its arguments?
18:42	akhudek	assume it's just debug code that is still present?
18:42	lancepantz	akhudek: the latter, there was a mention of it on assembla recently
18:42	lancepantz	i think it got patched
18:42	akhudek	ok, thanks
18:49	mudphone	Sivajag: hi Siva
19:32	bhenry	,(def test "test")
19:32	clojurebot	DENIED
19:33	bhenry	,(let [test "test"] test)
19:33	clojurebot	"test"
19:35	bhenry	with ring, how might i serve up static files from a dynamically decided path (based on a "get" variable from the query string)? eg. http://localhost:8080/?dir=/Users/bhenry/Pictures/wallpaper would show me all the pictures from that dir on a page of html. right now i have it showing me all the full paths to each picture in dir.
19:51	tomoj	ring has some helper function for serving up static files that are on the classpath
19:51	tomoj	but I think nothing for arbitrary files on the host
19:53	bhenry	guess i have to make a script asking for dir when starting up the clj file rather than getting it from the url afterwards.
19:53	tomoj	oh, and I was wrong
19:53	tomoj	there is ring.middleware.file and ring.middleware.static
19:54	bhenry	i looked at those but couldn't figure out how to go about doing what i wanted.
19:59	lancepantz	what is the penalty for having lots of files on the classpath with the jvm though?
19:59	lancepantz	i know it would start up slower
19:59	lancepantz	would those files also get put in memory?
20:00	bhenry	no
20:00	bhenry	my new idea is to just have the program write a static html file with the file:// links to images. and then open the static html file.
20:01	bhenry	the problem i was having is from http://localhost i can't click on file:// links for browser security features.
20:01	bhenry	but if i have clojure spit out an index.html i can just have it pop it open in the default browser as file://path to dir/index.html
20:46	redalastor	For a new clojure project, would you suggest to go with the latest github sources and transition to 1.2 when it is released or go with 1.1?
20:46	lancepantz	redalastor: github
20:47	lancepantz	redalastor: well actually, just pull the jar from repository
20:47	technomancy	clojurebot: compiling clojure is rarely necessary to do yourself.
20:47	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
20:48	redalastor	I regularly checkout the code with git, compiling is more convenient than downloading to me.
20:49	technomancy	well sure, if you download with wget or whatever. =)
20:56	brweber2	hey stuarthalloway, can you help with an array type hint question (when using :gen-class)?
20:56	stuarthalloway	hey brweber2, how are ya?
20:56	stuarthalloway	and maybe
20:56	brweber2	great
20:56	stuarthalloway	if I can't, Stuart Sierra is sitting next to me
20:56	brweber2	and you? you home today or travelling?
20:56	brweber2	awesome
20:56	stuarthalloway	home
20:56	brweber2	don't know if Liebke told you
20:57	brweber2	but Near Infinity will be hosting clojure hack nights in NOVA
20:57	brweber2	we should probably coordinate with you guys
20:57	brweber2	to help do some useful stuff
20:57	technomancy	how big are your hack nights?
20:57	brweber2	help out if we can
20:57	technomancy	we just find a coffee shop with big tables and it works great. =)
20:57	brweber2	technomancy, first one will be scheduled after capclug this Thursday
20:58	brweber2	technomancy where do you live?
20:58	technomancy	brweber2: seattle
20:58	technomancy	we generally get 7-12 attendees
20:58	technomancy	(disclaimer: we have really big coffee shops here)
20:58	brweber2	stuarthalloway so my question... is it possible to do array type hints for a method parameter on :gen-class? I've tried every hack I could think of
20:58	brweber2	including some that might work on a defn
20:58	stuarthalloway	what kind of array
20:59	brweber2	technomancy we're hoping for about 50% of capclug so that would be around 10 folks
20:59	brweber2	technomancy but we'll have to see
20:59	stuarthalloway	usually the string form of the JVM spec name works, e.g. "[B"
20:59	brweber2	I think it would be awesome if the groups could coordinate with clojure/core and help out
21:00	brweber2	I tried "[Ljava.lang.String;" but that didn't work there with trunk
21:00	stuarthalloway	seems like that should work
21:00	stuarthalloway	what kind of non-working symptom did you get?
21:01	technomancy	brweber2: better to be prepared, I guess
21:01	brweber2	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Exception: Unmatched delimiter: ] (seven.clj:3)
21:01	brweber2	at clojure.lang.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:6042)
21:02	brweber2	maybe it is a bug in trunk, I haven't tried with 1.1 yet....
21:02	stuarthalloway	that definitely seems wrong -- can you make a gist of the whole thing?
21:03	brweber2	stuarthalloway absolutely
21:03	brweber2	I'll trying debugging here to in a minute, I have the source checked out
21:05	abedra	lol
21:05	technomancy	super friends!
21:05	brweber2	stuarthalloway http://gist.github.com/473303
21:05	abedra	i believe he goes by Flash now :)
21:05	technomancy	who got stuck with Aquaman?
21:05	abedra	luckily nobody
21:06	abedra	it would be like the one who has superpowers but only in mutability
21:07	stuartsierra	Yes, I don't get along with Apple.
21:07	brweber2	stauarthalloway at clojure.lang.LispReader$UnmatchedDelimiterReader.invoke(LispReader.java:1021)
21:07	stuarthalloway	technomancy: we are trying to test the new build box
21:07	stuarthalloway	http://clojure01.managed.contegix.com/snapshots
21:08	stuarthalloway	but when I point lein there it grab a less-than-most-recent build
21:08	stuartsierra	brweber2: you have a type hint ("#^...") with no symbol to follow it
21:08	stuarthalloway	is there possibly some magic in leiningen that knows about the official build ip address?
21:09	brweber2	stuartsierra agreed, but that is how method on :gen-class works
21:09	stuarthalloway	abedra is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Manhunter
21:09	stuartsierra	brweber2: that can't be right, the Clojure reader can't parse that
21:09	technomancy	stuarthalloway: how did you point lein there? hacking the lein source or adding it to :repositories in project.clj?
21:09	technomancy	or something like an /etc/hosts entry?
21:09	brweber2	stuartsierra or you are saying I need to get rid of the quotes?
21:09	stuartsierra	no
21:10	technomancy	aquamaaaaaaan! http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=260
21:10	stuarthalloway	technomancy: repositories entry in project.clj
21:10	brweber2	stuartsierra agreed :) it isn't working so I def agree with you! I'm not sure it is possible... I'd love to believe that it is though
21:10	technomancy	stuarthalloway: the b.c.o repositories URL is added in lein itself; I'm not sure what the precedence rules are.
21:10	technomancy	however, you can set :omit-default-repositories true
21:11	technomancy	in your project.clj
21:11	stuarthalloway	technomancy: perfect!
21:11	dsop	stuarthalloway: stuartsierra one you are here, what about the digest proposal on clojure.user?
21:11	stuartsierra	sorry, not up to date with mailing list
21:11	dsop	k
21:11	stuarthalloway	dsop: I haven't looked at the code, but based on my experience with crypto apis in Java i would support a convenience layer
21:12	dsop	stuarthalloway: at the moment it's just digest that wraps MessageDigest.
21:12	technomancy	stuarthalloway: I'm taking off now; feel free to email me if you need any more help with the new build box.
21:12	stuarthalloway	technomancy: I am sure the whole community will blame lein (you!) if we break it. Bwa ha ha :-)
21:12	stuartsierra	brweber2: don't use meta for types in :method args lists, see http://gist.github.com/473303#comments
21:13	technomancy	no doubt! =)
21:13	technomancy	cheers
21:13	dsop	stuarthalloway: anyway, I'll wait until you guys look at it. it's probably not good clojure code anyway
21:13	brweber2	stuartsierra that works for primitives and classes, but not arrays... any idea about arrays specifically?
21:13	stuarthalloway	brweber2: task for capclug: review dsop
21:14	stuarthalloway	's proposal for digest, possibly extend to other crypto apis
21:14	stuartsierra	brweber2: I think it can just be a string, like my second comment http://gist.github.com/473303#comments
21:14	stuarthalloway	would be cool to add clojure.contrib.java.crypto
21:16	brweber2	stuarthalloway do you have a link?
21:16	stuarthalloway	brweber2: http://github.com/dsp/clojure-contrib/commit/77c9f7dbe071d90bf6cb385db4859e76d5e8ff19
21:19	brweber2	stuartsierra ah, I see the error of my ways! thank you!
21:19	stuartsierra	brweber2: welcome.
21:20	dsop	brweber2: there is also a follow up commit thats add a default charset
21:21	brweber2	dsop stuarthalloway ok, I'll follow up after Thursday's capclug to let you know when the group will meet
21:22	dsop	?
21:22	dsop	capclug, group, meet?
21:25	dsop	ah okay found
21:27	stuarthalloway	dsop: where are you based?
21:27	dsop	stuarthalloway: karlsruhe, germany
21:27	stuarthalloway	bit of a hike to capclug :-)
21:28	dsop	hehe
21:28	stuarthalloway	you could come hang at JAOO in Aarhus though
21:28	stuarthalloway	Rich and I will be there
21:29	dsop	hm sounds good
21:30	brweber2	dsop capclug is national capital area clojure user's group
21:30	brweber2	dsop the group will be meeting
21:30	brweber2	soon
21:32	brweber2	dsop stuart h. was suggesting that the group review it
21:32	dsop	brweber2: ah okay. at least you will have something to laugh, I'm not very lisp experienced :)
21:32	dsop	anyway, looking forward for feedback to make the code better
21:32	brweber2	dsop I think most clojure devs aren't....
21:33	dsop	I'm off, it's later here, 3:30 am
21:33	dsop	brweber2: I wonder if they will figure out what Class/forName "[B" means ;)
21:34	brweber2	dsop several of them will know :) the rest will have blank stares
21:35	brweber2	stuartsierra is stuarthalloway making you work late tonight? ;)
21:36	stuartsierra	We're meeting in the Justice League Justice Cave or whatever it is.
21:36	stuartsierra	'cause it's always a cave
21:36	brweber2	stuartsierra I'm not sure what to make of the clojure justice league... beats vampires I suppose!
21:37	stuartsierra	Well, sonian already claimed the Clojure Avengers
21:45	tomoj	hmm.. careful with swank.core/break: if one of the locals is an infinite sequence, your repl dies off
21:46	brweber2	stuartsierra what build box hacking are you doing? trying to get the build green again or something entirely different?
21:46	stuartsierra	setting up new Hudson/repository box
22:06	bhenry	if clojure justice league was instead clojure league of justice, the initials would be clj. you could also abbreviate it cloj
22:26	TimMc	:-D
22:37	cheluis	hi good evening... can someone tell me why this works (apply str "string") and this doesn't (apply (fn [x] (str x)) "string")
22:40	hiredman	cheluis: the fn takes a single arg, str does not
22:41	rhudson	cheluis: (apply f "string") is equivalent to (f \s \t \r \i \n \g)
22:41	cais2002	hi guys, how do I do this: bool e=false; for (int i=0; i<100; i++) if (vec[i]==true) then e=true; // now do something with e
22:41	cais2002	I am using doseq for the for loop
22:42	cheluis	oh.. I see.. thanks
22:47	rhudson	cais2002: (let [e (some true? myvec)] ...) ; e will be true or nil
22:51	cheluis	if I want to duplicate every char on a string?
22:52	qbg	,(apply str (map str "hello" "hello"))
22:52	clojurebot	"hheelllloo"
22:52	rhudson	for example?
22:52	cheluis	yep
22:52	cheluis	"hheelllloo"
22:52	qbg	Probably a better way to do it
22:54	cheluis	don't you think that is a problem that there's so many ways to solve a problem on clojure?
22:57	rhudson	makes it more likely that you'll find at least 1 solution :)
22:59	cais2002	rhudson: how to do it in a more generalized way, assuming (vec[i]==true) is a test function and I am also doing something for side effects within the for loop?
23:02	rhudson	cais2002: I generally think of a way to use reduce if I want to "accumulate" some value across a sequence
23:03	aria42	Hey, anyone having swank-clojure issues; anything that should throw an error now loops in the mini-buffer "error in process filter: wrong argument type characterp, nil"
23:03	aria42	On the latest slime, slime-repl, etc.
23:09	rhudson	cais2002: something like (let [e (reduce #(or %1 %2) false (for [i (range 100)] (v i)))] ... )
23:20	mikem	,(macroexpand-1 '(unless false (println "this should print")))
23:20	clojurebot	(unless false (println "this should print"))
23:21	mikem	hm, according to Programming Clojure, that should expand to (if false nil (println "this should print"))
23:21	bhenry	,(doc unless)
23:21	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
23:22	mikem	hm, ok, how about this:
23:23	mikem	ah, ok, never mind :) seems it's working
23:23	mikem	since unless isn't actually defined anymore
23:24	bhenry	yeah seems with the quoted expression you'll get whatever you put there no matter what.
23:25	rhudson	,(macroexpand-1 '(when foo bar baz))
23:25	clojurebot	(if foo (do bar baz))
23:25	mikem	,(macroexpand-1 '(when-not foo bar baz))
23:25	clojurebot	(if foo nil (do bar baz))
23:27	bhenry	,(macroexpand-1 '(im-so-drunk-right-now false (println "this should print")))
23:27	clojurebot	(im-so-drunk-right-now false (println "this should print"))
23:27	bhenry	which is why it worked with unless
23:27	bhenry	goodnight everyone.
23:27	rhudson	If the first symbol in the quoted list isn't a macro, there's nothing for macroexpand-1 to do
23:27	bhenry	right
23:57	Bahman	Hi all!
23:57	qbg	Hi