#clojure – 2010-05-13

2010-05-13

00:02	brweber2	what is the current state of creating a Java Enum in clojure?
00:09	_brian2_	technomancy : whats the right way to use lein and clojars to develop patches for pre-existing libraries do you put [lein-clojars "0.5.0"] in project file and take the original dependenicies out, or leave in, or am I on the wrong track?
00:53	Raynes	technomancy: ping
00:54	technomancy	_brian2_: you don't need the lein-clojars plugin; just scp pom.xml foo.jar clojars@clojars.org:
00:54	technomancy	Raynes: pongo
00:54	technomancy	_brian2_: and be sure to change the group-id to org.clojars.brian2
00:54	Raynes	Is there a way to have global plugins that don't require a project?
00:55	Raynes	I have a couple of ideas for some plugins, but they wouldn't be very useful if they had to be added to a project's dependency list.
00:55	technomancy	Raynes: it's on the list for 1.3, but I haven't started it yet
00:55	Raynes	Alright. :\
00:55	technomancy	Raynes: however, a guy called "sids" said he might start prototyping it when I told him about my plans
00:55	technomancy	you should ping him, see if you can help put something together
00:56	_brian2_	technomancy : what about the original dependencies, do I leave them in?
00:56	technomancy	_brian2_: yeah, you should only change the group-id
00:57	_brian2_	technomancy : ok, so they wont over write the changed files (?)
00:57	technomancy	_brian2_: you won't have permissions to upload anything that will overwrite the existing one
00:58	technomancy	_brian2_: that's why you have to change the group-id
00:58	_brian2_	technomancy : ok
01:02	_brian2_	technomancy : I'm not sure what this means "scp pom.xml foo.jar clojars@clojars.org:
01:03	_brian2_	whats foo.jar
01:03	_brian2_	i know I have pom.xml
02:11	vIkSiT	hello all
02:11	vIkSiT	anyone know where the code for the sort function is?
02:13	vIkSiT	ah found it (core.clj)
02:24	vIkSiT	hmm, in a function defnition - what exactly does this refer to ? (defn myfn [[a & b]]) - what are a and b?
02:24	vIkSiT	and the & symbol.
02:26	TheBusby	it indicates that the function expects a single argument which should be a list/vector/seq type
02:26	TheBusby	and that a will be the first element, and b will be every remaining element
02:26	TheBusby	,(let [[a & b] [1 2 3 4]] [a b])
02:26	clojurebot	[1 (2 3 4)]
03:06	maxhodak	is there a way to round to arbitrary precision in the clj api?
03:06	maxhodak	or do i need to do it myself?
03:10	LauJensen	Morning all
03:21	MadWombat	hello
03:22	MadWombat	I am trying to run a jetty server from a lein target, for this I need to pass it a routes function, so I use a project key for it. But so far I cannot seem to get it working, I get java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
03:23	LauJensen	MadWombat: M-x gist-region plz
03:23	MadWombat	LauJensen: ?
03:23	LauJensen	MadWombat: Are you an Emacs user?
03:23	MadWombat	LauJensen: yes
03:24	MadWombat	I don't have gist-region function
03:24	LauJensen	Ok, then get gist.el, mark the code which is causing the problem, hit M-x gist-region and the code will be uploaded to github and the url will be in your kill-ring, then you can paste it here and we can all have a looksie :)
03:24	LauJensen	http://github.com/defunkt/gist.el/blob/master/gist.el
03:25	LauJensen	MadWombat: And from now on, when you see somebody gisting, you can just hit M-x gist-fetch, and get their code right in a new buffer
03:26	MadWombat	LauJensen: OK, I will need to clean up the code a bit
03:31	MadWombat	http://gist.github.com/399596
03:32	MadWombat	there are some extraneous deps, but you can get the idea
03:33	MadWombat	I got the error when I tried to quote the app method, so I removed the quote and now I don't get any errors, but I don't get the response either
03:36	MadWombat	and here is my app code http://gist.github.com/399601
03:39	LauJensen	MadWombat: I haven't deployed on GAE yet, but your 'handler' isn't claiming any route. AFAIK run-jetty's handler is a combination of routes and handlers, ["/"] (fn [r] (println r))
03:41	LauJensen	http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/blob/master/src/compojure/core.clj#LID54
03:41	LauJensen	Here is how Compojure compiles it routes if your familiar with that. If not, 'app' in Moustache is actually simpler, but its just a pairwise collection
03:42	MadWombat	that might explain why I get Problem accessing /. Reason: NOT FOUND
03:42	LauJensen	yea, and if you want routing - I would recommend checking out Moustache
03:43	MadWombat	LauJensen: I don't need much routing, that is why I don't even use compojure
03:44	LauJensen	k
03:44	MadWombat	strange thing though, if I miss the gae-app setting entirely, the same handler (default) seems to work
03:44	LauJensen	Sounds like a bug
03:45	MadWombat	LauJensen: I am trying to implement something similar to what hackers-with-attitude post described, but with leiningen instead of ant and running recent ring instead of old compojure
03:46	LauJensen	Look forward to seeing it in action
03:47	MadWombat	hmm... readme for ring seems to describe app the same way, it is a function that takes request object and returns response
03:47	MadWombat	http://github.com/mmcgrana/ring
03:50	LauJensen	You're right
03:50	LauJensen	Try running with his code, ie. associating to the req
03:53	MadWombat	interesting... seems like the app source directory is not on the classpath
03:55	MadWombat	seems like lein is not including the source in the classpath when running tasks
03:55	MadWombat	I tried to hardcode the route function and got an error
03:55	tomoj	I don't think that's a bug
03:56	MadWombat	well, wonder if I can get around that
03:56	tomoj	dunno.. maybe look into the source for e.g. 'lein test'?
03:56	tomoj	since that must run some code in the subclasspath
03:57	MadWombat	good idea
03:57	tomoj	I shouldn't really be giving advice, I don't actually know much at all about lein's innards
03:57	MadWombat	:)
03:58	MadWombat	me neither :)
03:59	Raynes	LauJensen: You live in Denmark, right?
03:59	LauJensen	MadWombat: Perhaps if you've too much syntax like #() or named your variables something like 'chunk', technomancy may have put in easter eggs which prevents what he thinks is ugly code - you know, like he does with project names
03:59	LauJensen	Raynes: Still here, yes
03:59	Raynes	Just wondering. Oliver Twist comes from Denmark.
04:00	LauJensen	Here I would counter with someone famous from Alabama, but you're the only one I know Im afraid :\|
04:00	MadWombat	LauJensen: no, I don't much like macro shorthands myself
04:00	Raynes	LauJensen: Gomer Piles came from Jasper, 22 miles east of my home. But I'm not talking about the book.
04:01	LauJensen	Whos' Gomer ?
04:01	Raynes	$wiki Gomer Piles
04:01	sexpbot	First out of 27 results is: Gomer Pyle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
04:01	sexpbot	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomer_Pyle
04:01	Raynes	$wiki Oliver Twist tobacco
04:01	sexpbot	First out of 48 results is: Oliver Twist Tobacco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
04:01	sexpbot	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Twist_Tobacco
04:01	LauJensen	Pyle ?
04:01	LauJensen	or Piles?
04:02	Raynes	I thought it was Piles. This is before my time, mind you.
04:04	LauJensen	Nice
04:04	Raynes	A couple of other, generally famous people have come from Alabama. None recently though. Unless you count that American Idol winner a few years ago.
04:04	Raynes	Gray haired dude.
04:05	zmila	maxhodak, you can use (format )
04:05	zmila	,(format "aaa %10.4f zzz" Math/PI)
04:05	clojurebot	"aaa 3.1416 zzz"
04:07	Raynes	Does clojurebot cut out duplicate whitespace?
04:07	Raynes	$(format "aaa %10.4f zzz" Math/PI)
04:07	sexpbot	result: aaa 3.1416 zzz
04:09	zmila	no idea about spaces
04:11	Raynes	Yeah.
04:11	Raynes	He must, because it comes out the same way in the REPL.
04:13	zmila	,(str "oaeu" " " "aoeu")
04:13	clojurebot	"oaeu aoeu"
04:13	zmila	repl of CCW inside Eclipse does not cut
04:16	TheBusby	how do you include a quotation mark character in a string?
04:16	tomoj	,"\""
04:16	clojurebot	"\""
04:16	TheBusby	,(str "\" this doesn't work")
04:16	clojurebot	"\" this doesn't work"
04:16	tomoj	(println "\" this doesn't work")
04:16	tomoj	,(println "\" this doesn't work")
04:16	clojurebot	" this doesn't work
04:16	TheBusby	so what's the trick the for str and format then?
04:17	tomoj	str is the identity on strings
04:17	tomoj	I don't think there is a trick
04:17	TheBusby	ahh
04:17	Chousuke	clojurebot prints strings with quotes
04:17	Chousuke	,"foo"
04:17	clojurebot	"foo"
04:18	Chousuke	,(print "foo")
04:18	clojurebot	foo
04:18	TheBusby	,(println "$(println \",(println \\\"haha\\\")\")")
04:18	clojurebot	$(println ",(println \"haha\")")
04:18	sexpbot	result: ,(println "haha")
04:19	tomoj	does sexpbot always use "result:" for this reason?
04:20	tomoj	if it didn't, I wonder if you could set up an infinite loop
04:20	Raynes	tomoj: Yes.
04:20	Raynes	tomoj: Whether or not an infinite loop is possible, I don't want to find out. Which is why result: is there.
04:20	Raynes	:)
04:21	TheBusby	some how I can imagine many hours wasted in pursuit of that...
04:23	tomoj	seems like you'd need something quine-like
04:24	tomoj	never thought about quine-like things with period>1 before
04:26	TheBusby	,(println ",(println \"No quines here\")")
04:26	clojurebot	,(println "No quines here")
04:27	tomoj	(and (= (eval a) b) (= (eval b) a) (not= a b)) -- possible?
04:28	Raynes	$google rosettacode quine clojure
04:28	sexpbot	First out of 7 results is: Category:Clojure - Rosetta Code
04:28	sexpbot	http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Clojure
04:28	Raynes	There is a quine example in there somewhere.
04:28	tomoj	I don't think I can work with it, unfortunately :(
04:28	tomoj	I've never understood a quine so it seems unlikely I'll solve my puzzle
04:29	TheBusby	ahh, that's the same as the old lisp one
04:30	tomoj	hmm http://www.pagiamtzis.com/articles/iterating-quine-with-transient/
04:30	sexpbot	"Kostas Pagiamtzis: Oscillating (Iterating) Quine with Initial Transient"
04:44	Raynes	cgrand: ping
04:57	MadWombat	damn, I hate jetty, you start the server by accident and it keeps running in the background with no way to stop it :(
04:57	MadWombat	now I have to restart the swank AGAIN
05:15	arbscht	MadWombat: a naive solution is to save a reference to your servlet, and call .stop on it
05:59	somnium	are there any known corner cases where you cant recur out of very deeply nested let/if statements (despite being in tail-position) ?
06:07	Chousuke	none known to me :P
06:12	somnium	hmm, the macroexpansion is hard to read, but chaning recur to the function name works
06:12	somnium	http://gist.github.com/399685
06:18	somnium	ah, I am blind, nm ...
07:04	Raynes	LauJensen: You use, Chrome, don't you?
07:04	LauJensen	Not anymore Raynes
07:06	Raynes	I need somebody to confirm that automatic scrolling to the bottom of this div isn't working in Chrome. Not that I give a damn, but it's not working here either. It was working until I put it in the iframe. It works fine in FF.
07:06	tcrayford	Raynes: I have chrome installed and stuff (mac though)
07:07	Raynes	If anybody who is using Chrome has a moment, please navigate to http://tryclj.licenser.net/ and enter (doseq [x (range 1 100)] (println x)) and tell me whether or not it scrolls all the way to the bottom of the div properly.
07:07	Raynes	I mean, I've tried three different ways of scrolling, and none of them work in Chrome, so if it doesn't work, it's beyond my abilities to fix it.
07:07	tcrayford	scrolls all the way to the bottom here
07:07	Raynes	I'd just like it confirmed.
07:07	tcrayford	on chrome
07:07	Raynes	Oh, good. It must just be my Chrome.
07:08	Raynes	Thanks.
07:08	tcrayford	even on a second run
07:08	LauJensen	Raynes: Scrolls fine on Linux as well
07:08	tcrayford	what version fo chrome are you using?
07:08	Raynes	Uh. /me checks
07:08	Raynes	5.0.375.38 beta
07:08	tcrayford	on windows?
07:09	Raynes	No.
07:09	Raynes	Linux.
07:09	tcrayford	:S
07:09	tcrayford	ho hum
07:09	Raynes	Weird.
07:09	tcrayford	I can fire up a windows box if you want it tested on there as well
07:09	Raynes	At least it's working for everyone else. :)
07:09	Raynes	I'd definitely appreciate it, but don't go out of your way to do so. :p
07:09	tcrayford	it takes like 5 minutes, so meh
07:10	Raynes	<3
07:10	tcrayford	waiting for his very very slow windows box to boot
07:11	spariev	heh, Chrome 4.1.249.1045 on Windows 7, doesnt scroll
07:11	Raynes	No dice.
07:11	Raynes	It works for most people. This is the most I can ask of my budding web development skills.
07:11	Raynes	:)
07:12	tcrayford	turned windows box on, but forgot to plug in ethernet
07:12	tcrayford	so synergy timed out
07:12	tcrayford	also spariev just gave you a windows thing
07:12	tcrayford	so no need for me now
07:13	Raynes	Indeed. Windows result: suckage.
07:13	tcrayford	surprise surprise
07:13	rsynnott	Raynes: are you using the dev version of chrome?
07:13	Raynes	Luckily, I don't know many Clojure people on Windows, and nobody outside of Clojure people would have a good reason to use tryclojure.
07:13	rsynnott	the latest one (5.0.396) is pretty broken
07:13	Raynes	rsynnott: Whatever came off of the official chrome site.
07:14	rsynnott	Raynes: there are three channels, though
07:14	rsynnott	(release, beta and dev)
07:14	Raynes	I'm on the beta channel.
07:15	AWizzArd	Is the Java-Plugin working well with Chrome?
07:15	AWizzArd	Now as we know how to run any applet html+js is no longer required :)
07:20	LauJensen	Raynes: uhm... scroll actually doesn't work in IE6
07:20	Raynes	I care so little about IE6 that you can't even see the care if I put it in a clear crystal cup.
07:20	LauJensen	Careful with that :)
07:21	LauJensen	I did a client site not 6 months ago, where in the first month 10% of all visitors were IE6 users
07:21	LauJensen	To avoid having to redesign I had to ban all of their IPs in iptables
07:21	LauJensen	(j/k)
07:21	Raynes	If a Clojure developer is using IE6 for anything south of testing their websites, they should be shot to death by a firing squad.
07:21	Raynes	:p
07:21	somnium	http://ajaxian.com/archives/jquery-one-line-plugin-to-crash-ie6
07:21	sexpbot	"Ajaxian » jQuery one-line plugin to crash IE6"
07:22	LauJensen	somnium: perfect
07:22	somnium	Raynes: just add this you'll be all set :)
07:22	AWizzArd	yes, write Applets or WebStart applications in Clojure, not html+js
07:22	Raynes	I should add one of those condescending "Get a better browser" popups.
07:22	somnium	<3 js
07:22	AWizzArd	I prefer Clojure over js.
07:22	Raynes	I have a love/hate relationship with js.
07:22	AWizzArd	hehe (:
07:22	AWizzArd	why?
07:22	clojurebot	why not?
07:22	Raynes	I love that it works (sometimes), but I hate that it's not Clojure.
07:23	LauJensen	Raynes: excellent point
07:23	AWizzArd	The good news is: we can write small and big apps in Clojure and distribute them with the browser.
07:24	AWizzArd	Swing can be used, or clj-pivot for example, for the gui. You will have pmap on the client, can connect any host, can use Contrib and all libs you've written yourself.
07:25	abrenk	AWizzArd: so you fixed your webstart classloader problem?
07:25	AWizzArd	yes
07:25	somnium	AWizzArd: its an open standard, things like nodejs and cappucino ..., more reasons to like it than to hate it
07:25	abrenk	no fun dealing with stuff like that i suppose
07:26	LauJensen	We also have both clj-javascript and scripjure - though I dont know how much mileage they give you these days
07:26	AWizzArd	The JVM and Clojure are yeears ahead of what can be done with js. That is a pretty good reason for using that technology instead of something that is broken and works differently under each browser.
07:27	LauJensen	AWizzArd: well, can you do this? http://www.p01.org/releases/512b_jspongy/jspongy.htm
07:27	Raynes	But making it an applet would require making it an applet. :(
07:28	Raynes	I thought the general consensus was that applets are teh dead.
07:28	somnium	AWizzArd: the browser's each provide a separate api that js can use
07:28	AWizzArd	LauJensen: yes, anything that can be done with the JVM+Clojure.
07:28	AWizzArd	Raynes: you can use WebStart then.
07:29	LauJensen	AWizzArd: I dare you. Make a 512b raytraced menger sponge - and then explain the math to me
07:29	LauJensen	I only ask the you get 10% of the fps that the js version makes
07:29	AWizzArd	LauJensen: Java is not able to do it?
07:30	LauJensen	AWizzArd: No I very much doubt it
07:30	AWizzArd	LauJensen: how comes that Jake 2 runs with 250 fps? http://bytonic.de/html/jake2.html
07:30	sexpbot	"Bytonic Software"
07:31	LauJensen	AWizzArd: Lets try again: Make a _512b_ raytraced menger sponge. Doing that in Clojure require a huge amount of coercing numbers to primitives which in itself will put you over 512b
07:32	LauJensen	It might actually be possible with Penumbra now that I think of it
07:32	AWizzArd	Why should we try this? Why not compare software in general?
07:32	Chousuke	the JVM is in some sense ahead of javascript virtual machines
07:32	Chousuke	but on other areas, it's behind
07:32	Chousuke	the languages however don't matter.
07:33	AWizzArd	This is just a specific usecase. I could also ask for doing Clojure one-liners in JS, which suddenly would require lots of code.
07:34	AWizzArd	There are reasons why we are in #Clojure and not in #JavaScript ;)
07:34	somnium	AWizzArd: thats like comparing clojure to java, there many many languages targeting javascript as a compile target
07:35	AWizzArd	Also, what about the billions of man-hours that went into developing libs for the JVM? To use them all we would first need a lot of work to be done in JS.
07:35	Raynes	There is always #clojure-casual
07:38	Chousuke	did someone claim that JS as a platform is even nearly as mature as the JVM? :P
07:38	Chousuke	it's barely gotten started.
07:39	AWizzArd	true
07:39	Chousuke	the speed of development is nothing short of astounding but that's another thing :)
07:40	AWizzArd	Yes, in the next decade js can become a major player.
07:40	Chousuke	you mean in ten years or within the next ten years?
07:40	AWizzArd	within
07:40	Chousuke	right. indeed.
07:40	Chousuke	and it's not a bad language either
07:41	Chousuke	though I don't like how all the JS engines are pretty much tied to browsers :/
07:41	maxhodak	i need to voice my frustration that clojure is totally unable to deal with multidimensional primitive arrays in any reasonable way
07:41	AWizzArd	Yes
07:41	Chousuke	maxhodak: don't worry, so's java as far as I know :P
07:41	AWizzArd	(the “Yes” was for Chousuke)
07:41	maxhodak	Chousuke: java can do foo[i][j] ...
07:42	Chousuke	maxhodak: it's easier (and I think faster) to just use a single-dimension array
07:42	maxhodak	clojure has a confusing amap method which entirely complicated the issue of traversing a 2d array
07:42	maxhodak	i'm being passed a 2d array from a lib
07:42	AWizzArd	,(doc aget)
07:42	clojurebot	"([array idx] [array idx & idxs]); Returns the value at the index/indices. Works on Java arrays of all types."
07:43	maxhodak	,(doc amap)
07:43	clojurebot	"([a idx ret expr]); Maps an expression across an array a, using an index named idx, and return value named ret, initialized to a clone of a, then setting each element of ret to the evaluation of expr, returning the new array ret."
07:43	maxhodak	what?
07:43	clojurebot	what is exceptions
07:43	Chousuke	that's not very nice for 2d arrays, right.
07:43	maxhodak	anyways
07:43	mmarczyk	aren't Java's 2d arrays just arrays of arrays...?
07:44	Chousuke	yes.
07:44	mmarczyk	right, so (aget foo i j) = foo[i][j]
07:44	Chousuke	that is, the type of a[i] is an array type
07:44	AWizzArd	Maybe it would be indeed easier to make foo one-dimensional as Chousuke suggested?
07:44	mmarczyk	and you can roll your own loop
07:44	maxhodak	,(count (int-array 2))
07:44	clojurebot	2
07:45	Chousuke	but yes, clojure really isn't intended for array processing :P
07:45	maxhodak	yeah
07:45	LauJensen	maxhodak: I did an article on Fluid Dynamics, its basically a long piece on how to get the most out of Java arrays from Clojure
07:45	Chousuke	the easiest thing to do is probably to copy the array contents into a vector
07:45	AWizzArd	Though, with a few hours of work you could come up with respective fns :)
07:45	maxhodak	idk. one of the biggest draws of clojure was the ability to use java libraries
07:45	maxhodak	but ive been doing a lot of work with machine learning libraries recently
07:45	Chousuke	maxhodak: yeah but arrays are not nice from an api perspective
07:45	maxhodak	and i feel like clojure is not making things go faster
07:46	Raynes	Heresy.
07:46	Chousuke	there are no interfaces and it's just "raw data"
07:46	maxhodak	which is kind of the normal promise of a more sophisticated language like lisps
07:46	AWizzArd	Well, this is Lisp. You don't need to wait for anyone to let you work with arrays as you wish. You can implement that yourself.
07:46	maxhodak	i spend hours just fighting with stuffing things into data structures
07:46	Chousuke	maxhodak: arrays are about the only thing that clojure doesn't work well with in my experience
07:47	Chousuke	I wonder if a clojure.contrib.arrays would be useful...
07:47	AWizzArd	hmm yeah, could be nice
07:47	Chousuke	but what could it contain?
07:47	maxhodak	AWizzArd: that works when the abstraction is obvious or something is very repetitive; in this case it still feels like a lot of one-off data structure stuffings
07:47	LauJensen	http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2010/03/functional-fluid-dynamics-in-clojure/
07:47	sexpbot	"Functional Fluid Dynamics in Clojure \| BEST IN CLASS"
07:47	LauJensen	maxhodak: those arrays go pretty fast
07:48	AWizzArd	Chousuke: we can ask maxhodak what he needs right now. That is something that could go into such a contrib.
07:48	maxhodak	Chousuke: into-vec, for one
07:48	mmarczyk	maxhodak: if you need a generalised amap for traversing 2d arrays, then pick your order of traversal and write one
07:48	maxhodak	which would translate a prim array into a vec-of-vec[-of-vec...]
07:48	AWizzArd	maxhodak: can you list some more things that you wish you could write?
07:48	AWizzArd	(my-amap ...)? Something like that?
07:49	Chousuke	hm
07:49	maxhodak	AWizzArd: i can write that one
07:49	maxhodak	(into-vec)
07:49	AWizzArd	so basically what you want is a fn into-vec
07:49	maxhodak	i'm not a total novice. this has just been frustrating
07:49	AWizzArd	yes, can be frustrating
07:49	AWizzArd	I am just asking you which fns you would wish to exist
07:49	AWizzArd	so that it would not be frustrating
07:50	maxhodak	i mean, the goal would be to make it so we didn't have to deal with arrays
07:50	AWizzArd	,(into [] (make-array String 4 10))
07:50	clojurebot	[#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@843189> #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@d03e90> #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1bb9091> #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1103d33>]
07:50	maxhodak	right now there are a bunch of fns in core for clojure.lang.* -> [L
07:50	maxhodak	but not the other way around
07:51	maxhodak	,(into [] (into [] (make-array String 4 10)))
07:51	clojurebot	[#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@114dc12> #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@7c297a> #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1871a46> #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@cdec7f>]
07:51	maxhodak	er
07:51	raek	you can always (seq) an array...
07:51	AWizzArd	,(vec (map #(into [] %) (into [] (make-array String 4 10))))
07:51	clojurebot	[[nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]]
07:51	maxhodak	,(map #(into [] %) (into [] (make-array String 4 10)))
07:51	clojurebot	([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil] [nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil])
07:52	maxhodak	oh -- i remember my biggest problem
07:52	maxhodak	why i had to use nested amaps
07:52	maxhodak	i needed the indexes
07:52	AWizzArd	do you have a code example?
07:53	maxhodak	like, the indexes mattered
07:53	AWizzArd	hmm, there is a (map-indexed ...)
07:53	maxhodak	,(doc map-indexed)
07:53	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
07:53	AWizzArd	in fresh Clojure versions from http://build.clojure.org/
07:53	sexpbot	"Dashboard [Hudson]"
07:53	AWizzArd	but otherwise you can use clojure.contrib.seq/indexed
07:54	AWizzArd	,(doc indexed)
07:54	clojurebot	"([s]); Returns a lazy sequence of [index, item] pairs, where items come from 's' and indexes count up from zero. (indexed '(a b c d)) => ([0 a] [1 b] [2 c] [3 d])"
07:54	maxhodak	is that all in scope here?
07:54	maxhodak	(indexed (fn [a b] (vector a b)) (int-array 4))
07:55	maxhodak	,(indexed (fn [a b] (vector a b)) (int-array 4))
07:55	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: seq-utils$indexed
07:55	AWizzArd	,(doseq [[i s] (indexed ["a" "b" "c"])] (print i s))
07:55	clojurebot	0 a1 b2 c
07:55	AWizzArd	,(doseq [[i s] (indexed ["a" "b" "c"])] (print i s "-----"))
07:55	clojurebot	0 a -----1 b -----2 c -----
07:55	maxhodak	,(indexed (fn [a b] (vector a b)) (into [] (int-array 4)))
07:55	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: seq-utils$indexed
07:55	maxhodak	oh wait i'm looking at map-indexed
07:55	AWizzArd	right, here we have indexed for now
07:56	maxhodak	,(indexed (int-array 4))
07:56	clojurebot	([0 0] [1 0] [2 0] [3 0])
07:56	maxhodak	ok, that works
07:57	AWizzArd	(map-indexed vector (into [] (int-array 4))) should work on fresh Clojures.
07:57	maxhodak	also, i was wondering if anyone had details on the inner workings of pmap
07:57	maxhodak	i don't seem to get any speedup from it; it actually makes things run slower
07:57	AWizzArd	do you want to know something specific?
07:57	AWizzArd	maxhodak: this is then because your fn is not expensive
07:57	maxhodak	so i usually end up using concurrent and an ExecutorService to manually deal with threads
07:58	maxhodak	AWizzArd: no, they're expensive
07:58	AWizzArd	(pmap inc (range 100)) is slower, because for each inc work needs to be done
07:58	AWizzArd	thread scheduling here and there, copying data stackes, etc.
07:58	AWizzArd	your inc should take at least 1-2 msecs
07:58	maxhodak	AWizzArd: each fn takes up a core for a solid 3-5 seconds
07:59	AWizzArd	,(time (count (map #(Thread/sleep 500) (range 3))))
07:59	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--16172$fn
07:59	AWizzArd	,(time (count (map (fn [_] (Thread/sleep 500)) (range 3))))
07:59	clojurebot	3
07:59	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 1503.154 msecs"
07:59	AWizzArd	,(time (count (pmap (fn [_] (Thread/sleep 500)) (range 3))))
07:59	clojurebot	3
07:59	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 504.238 msecs"
08:00	maxhodak	that's strange
08:00	maxhodak	has it changed significantly in newer clojure?
08:00	maxhodak	i might be running 1.1 still
08:00	AWizzArd	not really
08:00	maxhodak	i am
08:00	AWizzArd	,clojure-version
08:00	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 1, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
08:00	AWizzArd	The bot also runs 1.1
08:00	maxhodak	hmm
08:00	AWizzArd	try this map vs pmap thing from above
08:00	AWizzArd	on your box
08:02	maxhodak	got the exact same result as you did here
08:02	maxhodak	so im running maps and reduces inside the fn
08:02	maxhodak	maybe it has to do with laziness and that just appearing slow?
08:03	maxhodak	also, how does pmap decide how many threads to run in? does it detect the number of cores and do something intelligent?
08:05	AWizzArd	pmap uses as many cores as are available + 2
08:05	AWizzArd	threads
08:05	AWizzArd	dual core cpu ==> up to 4 threads
08:05	AWizzArd	new AMD Magny Cours ==> 14 threads
08:06	AWizzArd	maxhodak: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L5296
08:06	AWizzArd	(+ 2 (.. Runtime getRuntime availableProcessors))
08:07	AWizzArd	pmap guarantees the correct order of the results, but obviously it must not run side-effects.
08:07	maxhodak	hmm
08:07	maxhodak	right
08:07	AWizzArd	At least not if the order in which those side-effects will be executed matters.
08:08	AWizzArd	In fact, I often cheated, as there is no (pdoseq ...) I just used (doall (pmap #(body here) my-seq)), to parallelize side-effect execution.
08:09	AWizzArd	Although, now that futures use the same pool thread pool as agents do, a doseq fireing of futures would also be okay.
08:13	chouser	pmap uses the 'send' pool and future uses the 'send-off' pool, I believe.
08:13	chouser	I'd recommend sticking with doall+pmap
08:14	cemerick	parameterizing the usages of various pools seems like low-hanging fruit for 1.3
08:17	caljunior	clojure
08:27	zakwilson_	Has somebody written a version of pmap optimized for large sequences and fairly fast functions? A naive version should be pretty trivial to write, but I figured I'd ask before starting down that path.
08:27	Chousuke	well, sequences are not parallelisable.
08:27	AWizzArd	zakwilson: I am under the impression that vmap will be good for that
08:28	Chousuke	so you need a slow function to map over in order to get any benefits
08:28	zakwilson	Chousuke: right. Assume vectors then, which I think ought to be.
08:28	AWizzArd	though, this could perhaps also be done on the video card, with the clojure lib "penumbra"
08:28	Chousuke	but pvmap is rich's experimental function for mapping over vectors (which are not sequences) and it's very fast
08:29	AWizzArd	Video cards are extremly good in running cheap functions on vast amounts of data
08:29	Chousuke	it's in the clojure par branch and depends on the JDK7 forkjoin library
08:29	AWizzArd	such as: make each rgb pixel brither by 10%, and then do this for all pixels or such
08:30	Chousuke	zakwilson: http://paste.lisp.org/display/84027
08:32	zakwilson	What I actually want to do is run it on a map and return a vector, so I don't think vpmap would work out of the box. How fast is calling vec on a map?
08:32	Chousuke	linear
08:33	AWizzArd	And do you really need the result to be a vector?
08:33	zakwilson	1.3 seconds on my data set. That would kill any benefit from parallalization.
08:34	zakwilson	No. I need a sorted collection.
08:34	AWizzArd	a sorted-set-by or sorted-map-by?
08:35	AWizzArd	What I would really really love to have is a way to build up a sorted-set or map veeerry fast, if I can guarantee to insert in already sorted order
08:37	zakwilson	A map, sorted by value, which I'm currently getting with (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] m))
08:37	zakwilson	Well, a sequence of key/value pairs. It doesn't need to be a map at this point.
08:38	AWizzArd	zakwilson: a map, sorted by value?
08:38	AWizzArd	sorted by key you probably mean?
08:39	zakwilson	No, I mean sorted by value. {:a 2 :b 8 :c 4} is sorted to {:b 8 :c 4 :a 2}
08:39	zakwilson	,(into {} (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] {:a 2 :b 8 :c 4}))
08:39	clojurebot	EOF while reading
08:39	zakwilson	,(into {} (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] {:a 2 :b 8 :c 4})))
08:39	clojurebot	{:b 8, :c 4, :a 2}
08:40	AWizzArd	,(class (into {} (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] {:a 2 :b 8 :c 4}))))
08:40	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap
08:40	AWizzArd	it just happens to look sorted, because it is an ArrayMap
08:40	AWizzArd	,(doc hash-map)
08:40	clojurebot	"([] [& keyvals]); keyval => key val Returns a new hash map with supplied mappings."
08:41	zakwilson	I know, but what I'm really doing with it is (take n (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] m)))
08:41	AWizzArd	Maybe you want to go with a sorted-set
08:42	AWizzArd	if you have tuples you can sort them by any of their values
08:43	zakwilson	Or use the numbers as keys and go with a sorted map, but I'm actually happy with the current implementation of this. What needs work is the generation of the map that I'm taking the top values from.
08:44	AWizzArd	,(into (sorted-set-by #(compare (second %2) (second %1))) [[:a 2] [:b 8] [:c 4]])
08:44	clojurebot	#{[:b 8] [:c 4] [:a 2]}
08:44	hamza	~def pmap
08:44	AWizzArd	hamza: pmap is at http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L5296
08:45	hamza	AWizzArd: thanks, what was the command to get url to github for clojurebot?
08:45	AWizzArd	i guess it just is very slow
08:46	AWizzArd	I happened to have the url still in my history, because I pasted it 40 minutes ago
09:00	zakwilson	AWizzArd: the sorted set is marginally faster, though swapping out my sort-by call for that seems to have broken my code. That makes no sense, as the results of calling it on test cases are identical.
09:01	AWizzArd	ok
09:01	zakwilson	Not that I expect you to fix that.
09:03	zakwilson	I'll try to get it working because it seems like the correct data structure, but what I really want is to speed up generation of the thing I'm sorting: (map a-fast-function a-big-map)
09:07	AWizzArd	zakwilson: if it were not a-big-map but a-big-vector then you try to cut it into 2 (or more) pieces and put the call to map into a future.
09:09	zakwilson	Yes, but I need to do fast lookups by key on it.
09:11	AWizzArd	and only afterwards you want to sort it?
09:12	AWizzArd	if you had a-big-sorted-set then you can still slice it into pieces with subseq
09:12	AWizzArd	though I don't know if this is efficient in the current implementation
09:12	zakwilson	I don't want to sort a-big-map. I want to sort the output of (map a-fast-fn a-big-map)
09:13	zakwilson	The sorting part is fast enough (~500ms).
09:17	zakwilson	Some speedup with (apply concat (pmap #(map a-fast-fn %) (partition (round (/ (count a-big-map) 4))))
09:19	cemerick	so, last-var-wins just falls down in some cases -- e.g. defining munge in one's own ns
09:35	chouser	cemerick: :-( I wonder if we're too late to replace that with something better in 1.2
09:35	chouser	cemerick: might be worth continuing to beat that drum on clojure-dev
09:35	cemerick	chouser: it's really quite bad. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get last-var-wins eliminated.
09:36	cemerick	yeah, I'll post a message shortly
09:38	AWizzArd	cemerick: do you have a minimal example of that problem?
09:39	cemerick	AWizzArd: looks like: add (defn munge [a b c]) to an ns, AOT-compile.
09:44	AWizzArd	Hmm, and what is the problem there?
09:44	AWizzArd	Some other ns also has a (defn munge)?
09:44	cemerick	core does
09:44	cemerick	and when you redef it locally, the compiler bonks trying to use your version
09:45	cemerick	or, that's my reading of it
09:45	AWizzArd	So, you may not aot anything that already exists in core?
09:45	cemerick	the scope is surely not that large
09:45	cemerick	perhaps anything that the compiler uses?
09:46	AWizzArd	ic
09:53	chouser	this could be fixed in the compiler without losing last-var-wins
09:53	chouser	unfortunately
09:53	chouser	but ... actually, it probably should be.
09:53	chouser	cemerick: did you have your own munge var before last-var-wins?
09:55	chouser	the compiler should be using clojure.core/munge, not ns/munge. If it's doing the latter, it would fail in the case you're describing, but seems like it would also fail if you excluded clojure.core/munge from your own ns and then def'ed your own munge
09:55	chouser	hm, actually I think I can test that in a moment here.
10:00	cemerick	chouser: yeah, it was already there; the compiler error actually is related to munge being a multimethod
10:00	cemerick	and I get two warnings before the compiler error, with core/munge and my-ns/munge doing a dance
10:10	chouser	you were excluding clojure.core/munge from your ns and that was working fine?
10:10	mmarczyk	as far as I can see, munge is a regular function, defined with a defn in core_deftype.clj
10:11	cemerick	chouser: I was, yes, but then I dropped the exclude. I had a hunch. :-)
10:11	chouser	:-)
10:12	chouser	well then color me surprised. I'd have to dig into it to figure out why last-var-wins is behaving differently from exclude+def
10:13	zakwilson	Is there a way to persist a map to disk that's faster to read than (spit "foo" (str a-map))?
10:14	chouser	(future (spit "foo" (str a-map))) is pretty fast ;-)
10:14	chouser	there aren't many options. you could try the Serialization stuff, but I don't know if that's any faster or appropriate for your use-case.
10:15	zakwilson	It's the reading I'm interested in, not the writing.
10:15	zakwilson	It only takes a few seconds to write, but over a minute to read.
10:15	npoektop	hi! how to make smth like (apply (fn [& a] (println "numbers: " a)) [1 2 3]) to print "numbers: 1\n2\n3?
10:15	npoektop	it prints "numbers: (1 2)"
10:18	abrenk	,(apply str (interpose "\n" [1 2 3]))
10:18	clojurebot	"1\n2\n3"
10:18	chouser	abrenk: you beat me about ~1 second.
10:18	chouser	,(apply str "numbers: " (interpose "\n" [1 2 3]))
10:18	clojurebot	"numbers: 1\n2\n3"
10:18	abrenk	chouser: but your answer's more complete :)
10:20	npoektop	i mean i need smth like this (find collection spliced-vector-of-params)
10:20	npoektop	how to splice vector of params here?
10:23	zakwilson	Any good reasons not to use -XX:+AggressiveOpts?
10:25	chouser	npoektop: is 'apply' not what you want?
10:25	chouser	find only takes two args though, so I'm not sure why you'd want to splice in more than that.
10:25	npoektop	how to use it here?
10:27	npoektop	chouser, (defn find [coll & params] ...) how to splice a vector v? (apply ...(find coll ...) v)
10:27	chouser	(apply find coll v)
10:28	chouser	but note there's a clojure.core/find, so replace that with caution
10:28	npoektop	chouser, thank you
10:29	cemerick	chouser: tip o' the iceberg, there :-/
10:40	zakwilson	Under what circumstances could (take n (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] a-map))) and (take n (into (sorted-set-by #(compare (val %2) (val %1))) a-map)) yield different results?
10:50	rdsr	Hi all, I' m faced with the unfortunate task of extending innumerable wrapper classes from a single parameterized class, so that I'm able to use these with the proxy macro ,
10:51	rdsr	Has anyone faced a similar problem?
10:51	rdsr	any pointers, suggestions would be helpful :)
10:51	zakwilson	AWizzArd: sorted-set-by excludes items where compare returns 0.
10:58	zakwilson	So I've spent all afternoon on performance tuning that yielded no improvements, but I did learn some things. Win overall.
11:00	AWizzArd	zakwilson: it does not exclude them
11:00	AWizzArd	but instead those are identical and only one is kept
11:01	zakwilson	,(into (sorted-set-by #(compare (val %2) (val %1))) {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 2})
11:01	clojurebot	#{[:c 3] [:b 2] [:a 1]}
11:01	AWizzArd	When I want to sort things alphabetically after the first char of a string, then "Zakwilson" is exactly identical to "Zak the Wilsoner".
11:01	AWizzArd	yes, nothing excluded, the element is already inside
11:01	zakwilson	[:d 2] is excluded.
11:01	AWizzArd	no, there it is: [:b 2]
11:01	AWizzArd	They are identical, under your comparator.
11:02	zakwilson	Actually, that's your comparator.
11:02	AWizzArd	It was just an example. Write any that you like.
11:02	mmarczyk	AWizzArd: that would likely be what zakwilson is getting at ;-)
11:02	Chousuke	hm
11:03	Chousuke	the comparator shouldn't affect set membership, only the sorting order
11:03	Chousuke	that's a bug if you ask me.
11:03	AWizzArd	Chousuke: I mentioned this months ago
11:03	mmarczyk	as with sort-by you'll get both [:b 2] and [:d 2]
11:03	zakwilson	,(into (sorted-set-by #(if (> (val %2) (val %1)) 1 -1)) {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 2})
11:03	clojurebot	#{[:c 3] [:d 2] [:b 2] [:a 1]}
11:03	AWizzArd	I discussed this with rhickey, but right now that is not a priority
11:03	AWizzArd	We were at it when I asked him about persistent sorted multisets
11:04	zakwilson	That's what I want, however, it's slower than this:
11:04	AWizzArd	,(into (sorted-set-by compare) {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 2})
11:04	clojurebot	#{[:a 1] [:b 2] [:c 3] [:d 2]}
11:04	AWizzArd	,(into (sorted-set-by compare) {:a 4 :b 2 :c 9 :d 2})
11:04	clojurebot	#{[:a 4] [:b 2] [:c 9] [:d 2]}
11:04	zakwilson	,(sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 2}))
11:04	clojurebot	([:c 3] [:b 2] [:d 2] [:a 1])
11:04	mmarczyk	so you'd be fine with nondeterministic ordering for sorted-set-by if the comparator happens to "glue together" some elements?
11:04	AWizzArd	uhm no, reverse the keys
11:04	AWizzArd	mmarczyk: first wins
11:05	AWizzArd	order can be like conj on vectors
11:05	AWizzArd	This is how Google implemented their Multisets
11:05	AWizzArd	But they are not fully persistent, so, not interesting (to me).
11:05	cemerick	well, there that goes. I wonder how badly I'm going to get spanked. ;-)
11:05	mmarczyk	AWizzArd: I don't know, I tend to expect tree sets to have an ordering independent of insertion order
11:06	AWizzArd	Anyway, I tend to say that if things are not (identical? a b) they should both go into the set.
11:07	mmarczyk	AWizzArd: that's contrary to my intuition, but I'll just say I need to think about it, thanks for the food for thought :-)
11:07	AWizzArd	zakwilson: you can use (identical? %1 %2) in your comparator if (zero? (compare %1 %2))
11:07	mmarczyk	AWizzArd: not really
11:07	mmarczyk	,(identical? [1] [1])
11:07	clojurebot	false
11:08	AWizzArd	why not? Can make sense for some applications
11:08	mmarczyk	=, maybe, though it's still a bit strange to me
11:08	AWizzArd	anyway, it was just a suggestion
11:08	mmarczyk	or .equals
11:08	zakwilson	AWizzArd: I just used (if (> a b) 1 -1) - the items are guaranteed not to be identical.
11:08	AWizzArd	,(identical? [:b 2] [:d 2])
11:08	clojurebot	false
11:08	AWizzArd	that could be fine for zakwilsons case
11:08	mmarczyk	and also
11:09	mmarczyk	,(identical? [:b 2] [:d 2])
11:09	clojurebot	false
11:09	AWizzArd	you probably meant 2x [:b 2]
11:09	mmarczyk	,(identical? [:b 2] [:b 2])
11:09	clojurebot	false
11:09	mmarczyk	yeah
11:09	AWizzArd	anyway, depending on the situation this can make sense
11:09	AWizzArd	for zakwilson perhaps = would be better
11:10	AWizzArd	,(compare (second [:b 2]) (second [:d 2]))
11:10	clojurebot	0
11:10	AWizzArd	,(zero? (compare (second [:b 2]) (second [:d 2])))
11:10	clojurebot	true
11:10	AWizzArd	if this yields true just try (= [:b 2] [:b 2])
11:10	AWizzArd	uhm, one of those ought to be a :d :-)
11:11	AWizzArd	oh great :)
11:12	mmarczyk	if seqs where comparable, we could use rseq for reverse lexical ordering of vectors
11:12	AWizzArd	zakwilson_: (zero? (compare (second [:b 2]) (second [:d 2]))) ... if this yields true just try (= [:b 2] [:d 2])
11:13	zakwilson_	I don't care about the case where the items actually are identical: it can't happen.
11:14	mmarczyk	zakwilson_: right, so your solution with 1 -1 is ok, although I guess it leads to nondeterministic ordering on the set
11:14	zakwilson_	I'm ok with nondeterministic ordering when the values are equal.
11:15	zakwilson_	The problem is, it's slower than (take n (sort-by val (comparator >) (into [] a-map)))
11:16	zakwilson_	(which I'm calling some 30,000 times)
11:16	spariev	how would you guys rewrite this scheme code - http://gist.github.com/261189 ?
11:16	mmarczyk	I've never looked into the tree set implementation, but I'd expect it to perform some rebalancing etc.
11:16	spariev	here's my [nonworking because of wrong recur position] take - http://gist.github.com/399923
11:16	mmarczyk	no surprise here
11:18	Danmaku	spariev: why occurs-naive1?
11:18	AWizzArd	zakwilson_: perhaps you can use some of the mutable Java collections to speed it up?
11:18	mmarczyk	Danmaku: note string->list
11:19	zakwilson_	AWizzArd: I don't think this is actually the part that's slow. I'm using transients for the parts that previously profiled as being slow.
11:19	Danmaku	(let ((pat (string->list pat) (str (string->list str))) ... ?
11:20	mmarczyk	Danmaku: actually (let loop ((pat ...) ...) ...), which is basically the same
11:20	mmarczyk	Danmaku: otherwise you'd have to do list->string before the recursive calls
11:21	Danmaku	Yes, i suposse depending on the implementation in turns the internal define into a letrec anyway.
11:21	mmarczyk	spariev: you could just use regular self-calls instead of recur; the Scheme version isn't tail-recursive either
11:22	mmarczyk	Danmaku: the impls which don't do this turn letrecs into internal defines ;-)
11:22	Danmaku	heh
11:23	mmarczyk	bbl, there's a pizza waiting for me
11:23	zakwilson_	http://clojure.pastebin.com/K6zwG99h <-- what I would like is to make this work. Initial testing shows a brief spike in both cores no improvement on a dual-core system.
11:23	AWizzArd	mmarczyk: enjoy :)
11:24	spariev	Danmaku: the first gist called occurs-naive in contract with the same thing using memoize - http://gist.github.com/261193
11:24	mmarczyk	AWizzArd: thanks :-)
11:26	spariev	mmarczyk: thanks, I'll look into it
11:26	Danmaku	spariev: you can define "occurs" without memoization
11:26	Danmaku	and then define a "memoize" procedure.
11:27	savanni	So, I have a newbie macro problem that I put into a code snippet on http://pastebin.org/229880
11:27	savanni	And, if you are willing to attack that, my question is, why does my hex-replace macro get reported as a function? Or, how can I get hex-replace to expand into the other function?
11:28	Danmaku	spariev: for the memoization part there is an example here: http://clojure.org/atoms
11:28	spariev	Danmaku: thanks, I know about memoize, it was recur stuff I wasn't sure about
11:29	spariev	didn't notice that scheme code isnt tale-recursive
11:29	Danmaku	I don't think you need recur here
11:29	chouser	savanni: I think you just want -> instead of .. in both places
11:31	savanni	Hmm... well that changes the error message to "Wrong number of args passed to: pages$hex-replace (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)". I thought my hex-replace macro only required one arg.
11:32	chouser	if this isn't just for learning macros, you might also be interested in:
11:32	chouser	,(java.net.URLEncoder/encode "this has/did-have &strang chars!")
11:32	clojurebot	"this+has%2Fdid-have+%26strang+chars%21"
11:33	chouser	oh
11:33	savanni	Well, one day I will need to learn macros, but the URLEncoder is probably more correct than what I have written.
11:33	savanni	(I really do not know much of the Java library)
11:33	chouser	ok, I see some of what's going on.
11:34	chouser	savanni: me neither -- just learned (re-learned?) about URLEncoder yesterday.
11:35	chouser	savanni: you were expecting the inner hex-replace calls to be expanded first, and then .. to nest the resulting forms inside each other?
11:36	savanni	Umm... I think so. I was expected escape-uri-param to have a body of (.. param (replace ":" "%whatever") (replace "/" "%whatever") and so on
11:36	savanni	Modeling after a function in either compojure or ring that escapes HTML entities.
11:39	savanni	Ah, actualyl, a function in hiccup.
11:41	chouser	savanni: ok, that's the conceptual problem. An outer macro is expanded first, and only then are parts of what it returns expanded.
11:42	savanni	AH! Because .. itself is a macro!
11:42	chouser	savanni: so -> goes first, producing something like (replace (replace param \: "%..") \/ "%..")
11:42	chouser	right
11:42	savanni	Okay, I can restructure that!
11:48	ArkRost	Hi! I've taken a look into clojure source. There is a thing I don't understand. Why do we in method lookupVar(src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java line 5633) have to handle a situation when sym equals NS handle separatelly from others?
11:52	chouser	ArkRost: the symbols ns and in-ns are handled specially so that they always mean the same thing
11:53	chouser	when you're in namespace A and load B (perhaps via (ns A (:require B))), when B.clj first starts to load ns is still A
11:54	chouser	So if A has done something screwy with the 'ns' or 'in-ns' symbols, or failed it refer them from clojure.core, it could cause B to fail in some hard-to-understand way.
11:54	spariev	is it ok/idiomatic to mix recur with usual self-class like this - http://gist.github.com/399923 ?
11:55	chouser	Instead, ns and in-ns always mean clojure.core/ns and clojure.core/in-ns so that you can use their short names even in unknown circumstances or in new/empty namespaces.
11:56	ArkRost	You're right. Thanks
11:56	spariev	oops, s/self-class/self-calls
11:57	chouser	spariev: It's certinaly ok. I think it's sufficiently idiomatic as well -- using recur when you can (for speed, stack-depth, etc.) and not when you can't.
11:57	spariev	chouser: thanks, just wanted to be sure :)
12:03	alexyk	I manually implemented pmap with 8 agents and achieved 800% load on an 8-core box. pmap did 400% max. Is there a way to tell pmap to work smarter, not harder?
12:04	technomancy	alexyk: pmap never gets too far ahead of the consumer since it's semi-lazy
12:05	alexyk	ah! will it get to work inside doall?
12:05	alexyk	I meant harder, not smarter :)
12:06	technomancy	not really, because one element that takes longer can block the consumer from the successive elements
12:06	technomancy	though it might work if the amount of work for each element was relatively homogeneous.
12:07	alexyk	that's the case. I loath to reimplement the same map/reduce myself with my N agents, await for them, conj...
12:12	hugod	alexyk: out of interest, does (.. Runtime getRuntime availableProcessors) report 8?
12:13	alexyk	hugod: yep
12:14	joshua-choi	I'd like to know if there's a function similar to clojure.contrib.string/split that includes the characters between the spitted string: (split* #"\s+" "ab c de") -> ("ab" " " "c" " " "de").
12:16	arkahn	noob help - I want to read lines from a file, process each, until the call to readline returns 'nil'. I'm trying to decide what is the best branching and/or looping construct. Here's some sample code ;;; (with-open [r (BufferedReader. (FileReader. "./filename.txt"))] .readLine r)
12:17	arkahn	I eventually want to tail the file, so I'll read until 'nil', sleep, then try reading again until some test condition is false
12:17	joshua-choi	If it weren't for that last part, you could simply use clojure.contrib.io/read-lines.
12:17	arkahn	true! : )
12:18	joshua-choi	Take a look at that function's source, though: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/9cd7b155149c6e20b799528c6d5bf2f0e553e9f3/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/io.clj#L308
12:19	cemerick	cgrand: it'd probably be more convenient if String's get-resource returned nil if there's no available stream for the given name. The NPE isn't so useful.
12:19	joshua-choi	arkahn: If you replaced the (.close rdr) part with (do ... (.close rdr)), you should be able to do what you want
12:20	arkahn	joshua-choi: thank you ... I should have looked at the cc code again : /
12:20	joshua-choi	No problem.
13:16	ninjudd	technomancy: is there a way to use "lein compile" when some code is java and some is clojure? (src/jvm and src/clj)
13:17	hiredman	there is a lein-java plugin
13:18	ninjudd	hiredman: lein-javac?
13:19	hiredman	something like that
13:20	ninjudd	that looks like the one... so here is what i don't get about lein. you have to run "lein compile-java". there is no easy way to make the standard "lein compile" be smart and do what you mean
13:21	ninjudd	which means that running "lein jar" is broken, because it depends on compile, but not on compile-java
13:23	ninjudd	it seems to me that the problem is that lein misses the difference between what would be tasks and targets in ant
13:23	ninjudd	making them the same thing, which put much more burden on the user
13:24	hamza	lein will allow your tasks to hook into other tasks, it is on technomancy's todo list but with a lower priority. for now you can use a custom task that calls the tasks in the correct order.
13:24	abrenk	ninjudd: take maven... ;-)
13:24	abrenk	duck
13:26	ninjudd	hamza: can the custom task be called something that makes sense, like 'lein jar', or will it have to be something ridiculous, like 'lein myjar'
13:26	technomancy	ninjudd: there's going to be a hooks system in 1.3 to support that
13:27	ninjudd	technomancy: great!
13:27	technomancy	I'm waiting for a Clojure release candidate to release Lein 1.2
13:28	ninjudd	technomancy: what about jars you depend on. will there be a way to run tasks for them after they are installed?
13:30	giacecco	Hello all! Anybody has some time for a newbie question and some Eclipse background?
13:30	ninjudd	technomancy: or is there already through maven?
13:32	abrenk	giacecco: I use Eclipse for Clojure development at the moment...
13:33	giacecco	abrenk: I am struggling getting Eclipse to add a simple .class file to the build path
13:33	ninjudd	also, if i use lein-javac, there still doesn't seem to be a way to compile stuff in src/clj
13:33	giacecco	abrenk: I have a stupid package-less class in a .class file
13:34	giacecco	abrenk: that I want to instanciate in my clojure code e.g. (def foo (LineRedirecter.))
13:35	giacecco	abrenk: I tried everything but I can't get Clojure to recognise that the .class file is there and the class LineRedirecter is available
13:35	abrenk	giacecco: I vaguely remember that classes in the default package do not play well with Clojure...
13:35	giacecco	abrenk: what do you mean?
13:35	abrenk	giacecco: I don't think that it's an Eclipse problem.
13:36	abrenk	Could somebody else answer how to import a class from the default package?
13:37	abrenk	giacecco: did you try to (import 'LineRedirecter) ?
13:37	giacecco	y
13:37	giacecco	at the moment LineRedirecter.class is in the 'classes' folder of the structure that Eclipse builds
13:38	giacecco	but Eclipse does not list it under (default package) in the package explorer
13:38	alexyk	how can I destructure [1 2 3 4 5] to capture 1, [2 3], and [4 5]?
13:39	ninjudd	technomancy: should i just move all my clojure code out of src/clj and directly into src? isn't src/clj and src/jvm the accepted way to structure source code that is clojure and java
13:39	abrenk	giacecco: you don't have the source? just copied the .class file?
13:40	giacecco	abrenk: I also have the source
13:40	giacecco	abrenk: but I wouldn't like to translate everything in Clojure
13:40	alexyk	ninjudd: lein should understand :source-path IIRC
13:41	abrenk	giacecco: is the source in the same eclipse project as your clojure code?
13:41	giacecco	alexyk: do you mean something like #((nth 0 %) [(nth 1 %) (nth 2 %)] [(nth 3 %) (nth 4 %)]] ?
13:42	ninjudd	alexyk: looks like it does, thanks!
13:42	giacecco	abrenk: y
13:42	abrenk	giacecco: then it should work using (import 'LineRedirecter) (LineRedirecter.)
13:42	alexyk	giacecco: no, [x & [y z : mid2] & [u v :as last2]] or something that actually works
13:46	giacecco	abrenk: when I added the .java file, package explorer showed a new (default package) folder under 'src', and the .java file is there: is that correct?
13:47	abrenk	giacecco: yes
13:48	abrenk	giacecco: the target folder is normally hidden in the package explorer
13:49	ninjudd	alexyk: i think you're best off using subvec
13:50	giacecco	alexyk: (defn foo [x] [(nth x 0) [(nth x 1) (nth x 2)] [(nth x 3) (nth x 4)]])
13:50	alexyk	ninjudd: yeah
13:50	giacecco	alexyk: I know it's ugly but I'm a newbie
13:50	alexyk	giacecco: a determined newbie! :)
13:51	giacecco	alexyk: you have to start somewhere :-(
13:51	alexyk	true
13:51	Hodapp	sigh, if only when I was back in high school I had spent all that time during the summer actually learning Lisp instead of going to cross country practice and flirting with girls
13:51	Hodapp	I wouldn't be such a n00b now
13:52	giacecco	alexyk: you may also invent something using 'partition'
13:53	giacecco	abrenk: still no joy here
13:55	abrenk	giacecco: could you paste your .classpath somewhere?
13:55	turbofail	Hodapp: the two are (were?) not mutually exclusive
13:56	alexyk	giacecco: well. it's ok, I simply restructured the params. One way to do it is to say:
13:56	alexyk	,(let [[x & xs] (range 5) [y z & lala] xs yz [y z]] (print x yz lala))
13:56	clojurebot	0 [1 2] (3 4)
13:56	abrenk	giacecco: when doesn't Clojure find your class? in a ccw repl?
13:56	alexyk	I'd rather fetch yz at once with imaginary [y z :as yz & lala] but that seems to cut off lala, even though it parses
13:58	giacecco	abrenk: even before that, the editor already says "No matching ctor found"
13:58	giacecco	abrenk: actually, the error has changed, the one I just told you about does not say that the class does not exist
13:58	clojurebot	hmm… sounds like your out of heap space
14:00	giacecco	abrenk: hold on...
14:00	abrenk	giacecco: does the class have a no-arg ctor?
14:01	abrenk	giacecco: otherwise (LineRedirecter. :my :args :here) should work
14:02	giacecco	abrenk: so there were two problems, and one is fixed
14:03	giacecco	abrenk: the first was putting the .class in the right place, and that should be solved
14:03	giacecco	abrenk: the second is that I was calling the ctor in the wrong way, but that is still broken, I am working on it now
14:04	LauJensen	dumping a file with a Writer isnt atomic on the fs right? what is? shelling out to 'mv' perhaps?
14:07	stuartsierra	LauJensen: http://rcrowley.org/2010/01/06/things-unix-can-do-atomically.html
14:07	sexpbot	"Things UNIX can do atomically — Crowley Code!"
14:08	LauJensen	stuartsierra: Thanks!
14:09	stuartsierra	np
14:18	arohner	_ato: is there a way to grab the pom file for a jar on clojars?
14:19	giacecco	abrenk: update: whatever signature I use, I always get the "No matching ctor found for class LineRedirecter" error
14:20	giacecco	abrenk: the ctor is actually very simple: LineRedirecter(InputStream in, OutputStream out)
14:20	giacecco	abrenk: and I am invoking with something that looks like (LineRedirecter. (. my-proc getInputStream) writeTo)
14:27	abrenk	giacecco: and you're sure that those expressions evaluate to InputStream and OutputStream respectively?
14:28	abrenk	giacecco: does (LineRedirecter. nil nil) work?
14:30	giacecco	(LineRedirecter. nil nil) does not work
14:30	abrenk	giacecco: same error?
14:30	giacecco	abrenk: I also tried explicitly casting the parameters to the expected types
14:30	giacecco	same error
14:30	giacecco	that's odd isn't it
14:31	abrenk	yeah
14:31	abrenk	I fear I'm out of ideas
14:32	giacecco	abrenk: the source for LineRedirecter if you're curious is at http://bit.ly/bttA9N
14:32	sexpbot	"JMPlayer – Embedding MPlayer in Java « adrian's blog"
14:32	giacecco	abrenk: don't worry, you've helped me a lot already, and thank you!
14:36	dpritchett	I've just spent a few hours trying to get vimclojure + lein-nailgun to work with the latest labrepl to no avail. I'm not really sure where to go next.
14:36	dpritchett	I have lein-nailgun working fine with vimclojure in a sample clojure 1.1.0 project but since labrepl usees 1.2.0-snapshot it seems to be causing some issues
14:36	lancepantz	dpritchett: i've tried 3 times over the last 6 months with little success
14:36	abrenk	giacecco: as long as it's not just a typo regarding ...ter and ...tor
14:37	lancepantz	i was actually just trying lein ng + vimclojure
14:37	abrenk	ha!
14:37	abrenk	giacecco: the ctor is not public!
14:37	dpritchett	I think I've gotten that much working at least, lancepantz
14:37	abrenk	giacecco: so I guess there's a problem as long as soons as you're in a namespace
14:37	lancepantz	dpritchett: i just decided it was time to learn emacs :)
14:38	dpritchett	I can start up the repl from within vim and clojure-version is showing 1.1.0
14:38	lancepantz	dpritchett: does omnicompletion work, that was always the problem i had
14:38	dpritchett	I had originally resolved to learn emacs along with clojure but I switched to vim when I grew tired of emacs and the 8 second start time
14:38	giacecco	abrenk yeah!!! :-)
14:39	dpritchett	Omnicomplete is bringing up a box full of suggestions and automatically picking the right one. I have never actually used omnicomplete in vim before so I don't know if that's the expected behavior.
14:39	lancepantz	i'm pretty impressed with viper and vimpulse in emacs
14:39	lancepantz	i'm not using them though inorder to learn though
14:39	dpritchett	C-x C-o in insert mode autocompletes the word at the cursor
14:39	giacecco	abrenk: thanks! I did not notice that!
14:39	lancepantz	dpritchett: it is, i would get a java exception from ng everytime
14:39	abrenk	giacecco: that's stuff you definately need a second pair of eyes
14:41	s450r1	I only start emacs once just after my computer starts. After that I just open files from within emacs or use emacsclient, which is very fast.
14:42	dpritchett	So how much am I missing working against 1.1.0? I mostly just want to explore Clojure but since labrepl is broken that's offputting.
14:43	dpritchett	I believe the next release of vimclojure will solve my problems but I don't know when to expect it.
14:43	mmarczyk	broken? how?
14:43	mmarczyk	oh, and I'd say you're missing quite a lot
14:44	mmarczyk	and if you're not (yet) using Clojure in production, why not explore all the cool stuff that's available
14:45	dpritchett	mmarczyk: Labrepl itself isn't broken I just can't get it to play well with the latest stable version of vimclojure and I haven't figured out how to make the dev version of vimclojure work at all.
14:45	mmarczyk	dpritchett: ah, I see
14:46	dpritchett	And I've just gotten comfortable with vim, was hoping to avoid having to learn emacs along with the latest clojure
14:46	mmarczyk	I regret to say that I can't bring myself to figure out how to start a Gradle build to try the latest vc :-(
14:47	mmarczyk	you wouldn't want to become bieditorial?
14:47	mmarczyk	I always thought it was fun to go both ways :-)
14:49	dpritchett	I suppose learning emacs will be more beneficial than learning how to resolve this particularly dependency problem
14:54	LauJensen	chouser: Why both shell.clj and shell_out.clj ?
14:57	stuartsierra	LauJensen: renaming for 1.2
14:57	stuartsierra	LauJensen: renaming for 1.2
15:05	LauJensen	ok, thanks
15:05	LauJensen	btw stuartsierra, did you know that mv x y, where x and y are on the same fs, calls rename in stdio, which is atomic, but if they are not on the same fs, it calls cp, then rm :)
15:09	stuartsierra	LauJensen: I think I did know that
15:27	bsder	Newb question: I'm trying out the labrepl stuff in Enclojure on NetBeans in OS X.
15:27	bsder	After pulling the latest via git, it compiles and runs.
15:27	bsder	However, I get:
15:28	bsder	user=> (source "println")
15:28	bsder	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol (NO_SOURCE_FILE:10)>
15:28	bsder	Presumably, somthing still needs to be installed. Any suggestions?
15:28	dakrone	bsder: try (source println)
15:29	bsder	smacks forehead
15:29	dakrone	:)
15:29	bsder	dakrone: Thanks.
15:30	dakrone	no problem :)
15:43	scode	Is there a more idiomatic way of converting a set of things to a map, than (apply conj {} (map (fn [p] [(:key p) p]) set-of-ps))?
15:49	ataggart	what's the element of the set look like?
15:49	ataggart	iow, how does one element become a key/value tuple
15:50	ataggart	(guessing form the code that the element has a :key property)
15:50	scode	ataggart: In this particular case, blog pages that will have an :fname key.
15:50	scode	(I just used :key in my question to generalize)
15:50	chouser	(zipmap (map :key set-of-ps) ps)
15:50	ataggart	cool
15:50	ataggart	dammit chris stop answering questions while I'm trying to understand them
15:51	chouser	(zipmap (map :key set-of-ps) set-of-ps)
15:51	chouser	:-) sorry
15:51	ataggart	lol
15:51	scode	chouser: Thanks! That's exactly as short and nice as I would have expected ;)
15:51	dakrone	is there a way to get protocol methods to follow :use's :as option? http://gist.github.com/400369
15:52	ataggart	doesn't it just go into the ns around the defprotocol?
15:52	ataggart	ah nvm
15:52	ataggart	read the comment
15:53	dakrone	2 completely different protocols
15:53	dakrone	just same method names
15:53	ataggart	ya, you need to pick
15:53	ataggart	though...
15:53	dakrone	yea, I just don't want to have to name everything <prefix>-score and <prefix>-rank
15:53	dakrone	it'd be nicer to do (scs/score _) and (cs/score _)
15:54	ataggart	or they should be one protocol
15:54	ataggart	a type can only implement one of them anyway
15:54	dakrone	I thought about that, but the 2 different protocols have differing other methods that I don't want them all to implement
15:55	ataggart	break up the protocls
15:55	ataggart	have the type pick the n protocls it nees to implement
15:55	dakrone	they are broken up already?
15:55	ataggart	I mean, move score and rank to its own protocol
15:56	ataggart	if score and rank are the "same" in both protocols
15:56	kotarak	this is normal use behaviour
15:56	dakrone	they aren't the same though, they have different arguments too
15:56	dakrone	would that be a problem?
15:56	ataggart	ah very well then
15:56	kotarak	use (require '[name.space :as space] [space.name :as name])
15:56	ataggart	yes, so they are truly not the same fn
15:56	ataggart	what kotarak said
15:57	kotarak	or (use [.. :as .. :only ()])
15:57	ataggart	require+as or use+only
15:57	ataggart	good form
15:58	kotarak	use should be used only with only, anyway. %)
15:58	dakrone	(:use [clomoios.contextsearcher :as cs] [cs.score :as cs-score]) doesn't seem to work
15:58	dakrone	oh wait, you said require, not use
15:58	kotarak	dakrone: as I said: this is normal use behaviour
15:58	kotarak	yup , exactly
15:59	dakrone	(:require [clomoios.contextsearcher :as cs] [cs.score :as cs-score]) doesn't work either though
15:59	kotarak	Did you reload your Repl?
16:00	kotarak	If yes, what is the error. I would be surprised if it didn't work.
16:00	dakrone	not using a REPL, just running the file with clj to make sure it doesn't except like crazy when reading it
16:00	dakrone	ah wait, fixed it
16:01	ataggart	science!
16:01	dakrone	me being silly, thanks kotarak
16:01	dakrone	& ataggart
16:01	kotarak	dakrone: np :)
16:01	ataggart	yeah, I was approaching the problem from the protocol design side
16:02	dakrone	this highlights the need for Need
16:03	dakrone	did you just (load _) everything?
16:03	kotarak	basically, yes.
16:04	kotarak	Then Stephen G. wrote things as a library in contrib.
16:05	dakrone	very helpful :)
16:19	mmarczyk	is there a readable literal for the null character?
16:19	mmarczyk	,\a
16:19	mmarczyk	I mean \^@ doesn't work
16:19	clojurebot	\a
16:19	kotarak	,\000
16:19	clojurebot	Unsupported character: \000
16:19	kotarak	,\u000
16:19	clojurebot	Invalid unicode character: \u000
16:19	kotarak	,(char 0)
16:19	clojurebot	\
16:20	kotarak	hmm, bug?
16:20	mmarczyk	,\u0000
16:20	clojurebot	\
16:20	mmarczyk	thanks :-)
16:23	arkahn	,conj \u0000 \u0000
16:23	clojurebot	#<core$conj__4242 clojure.core$conj__4242@996e4>
16:25	dpritchett	If I've completely boffed my clojure install (mostly leiningen) and I'd like to wipe it and start over using lein deps what should I delete?
16:26	tcrayford	lib
16:26	tcrayford	well are you installing lein?
16:26	mmarczyk	if you have lein-stable set up
16:26	mmarczyk	lein-stable clean
16:26	tomoj	~/.m2 ?
16:26	clojurebot	No entiendo
16:37	ataggart	yeah rm -rf ~/.m2 should do it
17:01	dpritchett	Finally got everything the way I need it with emacs+starterkit+lein swank and labrepl. Tomorrow I'll start relearning emacs!
17:15	mmarczyk	dpritchett: great, have fun :-)
17:53	ninjudd	this makes no sense: i have 3 projects, A, B, and C where A depends on B and B depends on C. when i do "lein deps" in A, it doesn't pull down C
17:56	ninjudd	am i crazy?
17:57	ninjudd	seems like that is the whole point of a dependency management system, right?
17:59	technomancy	ninjudd: somebody must not be declaring their dependencies correctly. either that, or one of the dependencies is a dev-dependency, and those are not transitive.
17:59	arohner	is there a place in lein to specify java options?
18:00	ninjudd	technomancy: does lein do something strange when one of those dependencies is clojure?
18:01	technomancy	ninjudd: the only special-case for clojure is allowing you to omit the "org.clojure" group-id.
18:02	ninjudd	technomancy: so if B depends on clojure 1.2 and A depends on 1.1, there should be an error, right?
18:03	technomancy	ninjudd: no, maven allows varying versions of the same dependency. the rules for determining which wins are very complicated though. you can use :exclusions to manually get rid of the one you don't want if it picks wrongly (in the faq in the readme)
18:06	ninjudd	technomancy: ok thanks. i just got transitive deps to work. it was a caching problem
18:09	ninjudd	hmm.. it chose clojure 1.1 though. seems like it would make more sense to choose 1.2 since it should be backwards-compatible
18:09	DuneMan	except its not backwards compatible
18:10	ninjudd	but it should be if it used semantive versioning
18:10	ninjudd	semantic
18:10	DuneMan	but its not, so.
18:10	DuneMan	(hash-map ...) in 1.1 accepts duplicate keys, and in 1.2 throws duplicatekeyerror
18:10	DuneMan	I'm sure there are others.
18:11	ninjudd	technomancy: does maven take advantage of semantic versioning? or do you just prefer that people use it?
18:12	technomancy	it's impossible to enforce semantic versioning.
18:12	savanni	At least, in a fully automated way.
18:12	ninjudd	not enforce
18:13	ninjudd	i mean, does maven infer semantic meaning from version numbers?
18:15	ninjudd	for example, it could assume that if i require 2.1.0, then 2.2.0 is ok since it should be backwards compatible, but 3.0.0 is not ok
18:16	boredomist	Hey, I was wondering how I could do some Java casting from Clojure. Specifically, Graphics => Graphics2D
18:16	Chousuke	boredomist: you shouldn't need to do any
18:16	boredomist	Graphics2D is a subclass of Graphics if you didn't know
18:16	savanni	That kind of casting should be automatic as part of the subclassing system.
18:17	boredomist	Okay, that's convenient. Thanks :)
18:17	kotarak	(doc cast)
18:17	clojurebot	"([c x]); Throws a ClassCastException if x is not a c, else returns x."
18:17	Chousuke	cast is useless :P
18:17	savanni	Well, sorta. Actually, I'm not sure what would happen if the system thinks you have a Graphics and you call a Graphics2D method on it.
18:17	Chousuke	you'd get an exception.
18:18	Chousuke	or hm, not in clojure
18:19	savanni	I know I'm probably getting confused in here, but I'm thinking that if an object gets instantiated as a Graphics2D, there's nothing that would ever cause it to get upcast to Graphics.
18:19	kotarak	Chousuke: cast is an assertion
18:19	Chousuke	If you need to differentiate between Graphics and Graphics2d when making a method call or something you might need to add a type hint (I don't know if it's possible to overload in such a way though)
18:19	lancepantz	technomancy: do you have any idea what's up with the execute call in deps?
18:20	Chousuke	kotarak: yeah, and it seems like no-one uses it ;P
18:20	lancepantz	technomancy: i noticed the comment about the rogue thread
18:20	kotarak	Chousuke: hehe, there several such functions, eg. sequence
18:20	boredomist	Chousuke: yeah I tried a type hint, and it seemed to do the trick
18:25	alexyk	say I need to have 4 defn's differing only in 2-3 lines of a deep inner guts. Each defn takes parameters a and b. How can I make a macro which will produce each function -- how should I package the 2-3 lines of the "body"?
18:28	savanni	What if those 2-3 lines that are different are themselves functions that your big functions called?
18:28	savanni	You could then pass the function you want into the single big function.
18:28	tomoj	deftemplate maybe?
18:29	tomoj	do-template, rather
18:29	tomoj	or whatever the hell it is
18:30	ninjudd	alexy:
18:30	ninjudd	(defmacro foo [name & body]
18:30	ninjudd	`(defn ~name [~'a ~'b]
18:30	ninjudd	(do ~@body)))
18:30	kotarak	alexyk: depends on your macro: (defmacro fasten-seatbelt [clean-up & body] `(try ~@body (~'finally ~clean-up)))
18:30	ninjudd	just throw your other logic around the do-body
18:31	kotarak	do is not necessary, since defn does an implicit do anyway
18:31	ivank	how do i get access to deftrace?
18:31	ivank	from a repl in emacs?
18:31	ninjudd	kotarak: it may be depending on what is around it
18:32	alexyk	kotarak: say my body looks like: (let [x (f blah)] (assoc stats user x)) ; where stats and user come from the macro, i.e. common for all defns. Can I just apss it in quoted, '(let ...) ?
18:32	alexyk	pass
18:32	ninjudd	you don't have to quote it
18:33	kotarak	alexyk: just call it as (foo (let ...))
18:33	alexyk	ninjudd: do you mean I can avoid the macro with a do, saying do-body?
18:33	ninjudd	no
18:33	alexyk	ok :)
18:33	ivank	ah, got it (use ...
18:34	kotarak	alexyk: (foo my-fn (let [x (f blah)] (assoc stats user x))
18:34	alexyk	looks like macros are cheaper ways to stick varying guts into things inside of typed languages' generics, where you'd painfully typify the said guts
18:34	alexyk	kotarak: yep, cool
18:34	kotarak	alexyk: with ninjudd's foo from above
18:34	alexyk	ninjudd's foos rock! :)
18:35	alexyk	above: s/inside/instead/
18:35	kotarak	alexyk: the better design is probably putting your things into a driver function and expand into a macro, which calls the driver and passes it a function.
18:36	alexyk	kotarak: brainknot ^^! :)
18:36	kotarak	alexyk: (defn driver [guts] (.... (guts stats user) ...)) (defmacro foo [& guts] `(driver (fn [~'stats ~'user] ~@guts)))
18:37	kotarak	alexyk: this has the added benefit, that you don't bar# all over the place and changing driver effects all callsites without recompilation.
18:37	alexyk	kotarak: how can driver be defined if stats and user are in foo?
18:37	alexyk	guts only use them, not define them
18:38	alexyk	that's why they're not self-contained, spilled guts
18:38	ninjudd	driver would be a function that takes stats and user
18:38	alexyk	or driver is teh new foo?
18:38	ninjudd	i mean, guts would be a function that takes stats and user
18:39	kotarak	alexyk: ok more explicit: (defn driver [guts] (let [user (get-user) stats (retrieve-stats)] (do-other-boilerplate) (guts stats user)))
18:39	kotarak	alexyk: does this make sense?
18:39	alexyk	lemme think
18:40	alexyk	so how do I declare one real defn from foo -- is the defn's name implicit first parameter?
18:41	kotarak	Oh, you need a defn? Then you need a macro and go with the first foo from ninjudd
18:41	alexyk	yeah, my macro takes guts, produces a defn which must have a name and takes args [a b]
18:42	alexyk	so that then I can call it at will
18:42	alexyk	ok, ninjudd's from above indeed
18:47	alexyk	what's the difference between ~@x and ~'x?
18:48	turbofail	,(let [x '(a b c)] `(foo ~'x bar ~@x baz ~x))
18:48	clojurebot	(sandbox/foo x sandbox/bar a b c sandbox/baz (a b c))
18:49	turbofail	~'x is kind of a no-op
18:49	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
18:52	ninjudd	~'x does symbol capture
18:52	clojurebot	examples is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/API_Examples
18:52	kotarak	~'x should be used only after very careful thought. Very, very careful thought.
18:52	clojurebot	'x is kind of a no-op
18:53	ninjudd	quiet, clojurebot
18:53	turbofail	doh... i've miseducated it
18:54	alexyk	clojurebot: you will be reeducated in the rice fields
18:54	clojurebot	Huh?
18:54	alexyk	clojurebot: too late to ask why
18:54	ninjudd	http://blog.danieljanus.pl/clojure/symbol-capture.html
18:54	sexpbot	"musings of a Lispnik — Daniel Janus's blog"
18:54	clojurebot	Huh?
18:54	ninjudd	more explanation on symbol-capture: http://blog.danieljanus.pl/clojure/symbol-capture.html
18:54	sexpbot	"musings of a Lispnik — Daniel Janus's blog"
18:55	alexyk	thx
18:57	ninjudd	there's a section in stuart's book about it too
18:58	ivank	since '() evals true, how should i do (or '() '(something else)) in closure?
18:58	ivank	*clojure?
19:00	ivank	i want to avoid doing a (reduce max '())
19:00	wlangstroth	ivank: do you just want a test for emptiness?
19:00	wlangstroth	,(empty? '())
19:00	clojurebot	true
19:00	wlangstroth	oh, I misunderstood
19:01	ivank	wlangstroth: test for emptiness but return the list if not empty
19:01	ivank	actually hacked around it
19:01	somnium	like (when (seq xs) (reduce max xs))
19:01	ivank	(reduce max (cons 0 '()))
19:01	Raynes	"A group of us from the office went to see the movie Iron Man 2 (it just debuted in the United States), and it reminded us of Java, the Java community, and JavaOne." - Oracle
19:02	savanni	... eh?
19:02	wlangstroth	Raynes: ba-what?
19:02	Raynes	Indeed.
19:02	ivank	somnium: i don't want to have to assign it to anything
19:02	ivank	(let [x 999] (reduce max (cons 0 (filter is-palindromic (map (fn [y] (* x y)) (range x 100 -1))))))
19:04	somnium	ivank: ah, thats not really possible pointfree afaik, a common idiom is (when-let [x (seq ...)] (... x))
19:05	somnium	well, you could make a (fn [x] (when (seq x) x ...)) and use it point-free I guess
19:07	ivank	i don't quite understand
19:07	ivank	would you replace the (let with that?
19:07	somnium	wow, they werent kidding
19:07	somnium	http://www.oracle.com/marvel/index.html
19:07	sexpbot	"Oracle is co-promoting Ironman \| Oracle, The World's Largest Enterprise Software Company"
19:08	MadWombat	the damn clj-gae-datastore is missing a file :(
19:08	wlangstroth	Raynes: maybe they mean Java is a huge, barely-controlled explosion of mechanized teenage fantasy
19:11	DuneMan	Teenage fantasy wouldn't have chosen such a repressive and unimpressive type system
19:13	DuneMan	although the fixation on OO as the sole design paradigm does remind of certain young male obsessions gone awry.
19:13	wlangstroth	DuneMan: My point exactly.
19:13	somnium	ivank: my half-baked idea was (let [decide (fn [xs full-> empty->] (when (seq xs) (full-> xs) (empty-> xs)))] (decide (filter f (map g ...)) (partial reduce max) 0))
19:17	somnium	,(let [decide (fn [xs a b] (if (seq xs) (a xs) b))] [(decide (range 1 6) (partial apply ) 42) (decide '() (partial apply ) 42)])
19:17	clojurebot	[120 42]
19:18	somnium	half-baked was probably too kind...
19:42	_ato	arohner: sure http://clojars.org/repo/autodoc/autodoc/0.7.1/autodoc-0.7.1.pom browse from http://clojars.org/repo/
19:43	arohner	_ato: thanks, found it
19:50	rsh	does anyone have a recommendation for an html parser?
19:51	tcrayford	enlive
19:55	rsh	thanks
19:55	cemerick	enlive isn't an html parser, but OK :-)
20:23	StartsWithK	http://is.gd/c84Zu <- you have to load clojure in your own class loader (i can't post to -dev) or extract the native libs in tmp dir from jar (jline style)
20:32	dysinger	I heard there was an emacs vs ??? war going on in here
20:32	dysinger	can I get in a punch ?
20:32	Raynes	WHERE?
20:32	clojurebot	where is log
20:33	dysinger	:)
20:33	dysinger	oh it was on twitter nm
20:33	dysinger	and punches the nearest vim and/or IDE user
20:33	hiredman	ouch
20:35	DuneMan	your punches don't hurt me
20:35	DuneMan	VIM PROTECTS ME
20:35	technomancy	he must have forgotten to enable M-x punch-through-vim-protection-mode
20:35	DuneMan	holds a a shield with the Bram Molenjaar crest on it
20:35	technomancy	I have it activated in an erc hook.
20:40	tomoj	technomancy: keyboard pants... awesome
20:40	technomancy	tomoj: wearable computing is the future!
20:41	tomoj	then I'll never have an excuse not to be working :/
20:45	cemerick	dysinger: you'd be after me, probably :-P
20:46	cemerick	though "war" is surely overstating it
20:47	turbofail	yes... this is more of a "polite expenditure of munitions"
20:48	trptcolin	whoa looks like i picked a good evening for irc :)
20:52	turbofail	speaking of which, clojure-on-cruise-missiles sounds like a great name for a framework of sorts
20:54	chouser	dysinger: you're involved in ClojureConj 2010, right? What's up with that?
20:55	dysinger	Amit and I both got too busy
20:55	dysinger	both of us are working insane hours
20:55	dysinger	at the moment
20:56	dysinger	I want to see it happen though
20:56	dysinger	Oh BTW speaking of crazy hours - I have room for 3 more on my team
20:56	chouser	heh
20:56	chouser	That's good to hear, but I'm afraid I'm not qualified.
20:56	dysinger	halp
20:56	tomoj	if it happened, it would surely be the first conference I didn't have to pay to attend
21:16	hiredman	anyone know how to .property stuff in scriptjure?
21:39	hugod	anyone interested in maven plugins written in clojure?
21:42	drewr	hugod: of course
21:43	hugod	drewr: so how does this look http://github.com/hugoduncan/clojure-mojo-example/blob/master/src/main/clojure/maven/clojure/example/plugin.clj
21:44	drewr	it's certainly terse
21:45	drewr	I haven't written a mvn plugin before, so I'll take your word on the correctness
21:45	hugod	well, it looks pretty similar to the corresponding java
21:46	wlangstroth	anyone know if there's a haskell words equivalent in clojure? It's not like it would be hard to do, but it doesn't seem to exist in contrib.
21:48	drewr	wlangstroth: what does words do?
21:49	wlangstroth	drewr: tokenizes words. Super simple, I just didn't want to make my own if one was already there.
21:49	wlangstroth	tokenizes words, throws them into a collection, I should say
21:50	drewr	googles you mean tokenizes a string of words into a list?
21:51	drewr	,(split #"\s+" "the quick brown fox yada yada")
21:51	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: split in this context
21:51	drewr	,(clojure.contrib.string/split #"\s+" "the quick brown fox yada yada")
21:51	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.string
21:51	drewr	,(require 'clojure.contrib.string)
21:51	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/string__init.class or clojure/contrib/string.clj on classpath:
21:51	drewr	grrr
21:51	drewr	anyway, try that
21:51	TheBusby	,(use '[clojure.contrib.str-utils :only (re-split)])
21:51	clojurebot	nil
21:51	rhudson	,(.split #"\s+" "a b cdd e")
21:51	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1906e1d>
21:54	TheBusby	,(re-split #"\s+" "the quick brown fox yada yada")
21:54	clojurebot	("the" "quick" "brown" "fox" "yada" "yada")
21:54	wlangstroth	okay, re-split works. It seems like overkill when I know I'm always splitting on whitespace
21:55	wlangstroth	but I'll check out the code - thanks
22:01	wahz	how do you send an expression to the repl window in emacs using slime?
22:02	dnolen	wahz: C-x C-e from the last paren of the sexpr you want to send
22:03	wahz	thanks, but the result of the evaluation is shown in the minibuffer, but the expression itself is not sent to the repl
22:04	wahz	i.e. I would like it to be in the repl input history
22:23	wahz	I guess copy and paste will have to do for now :)
22:50	vIkSiT	hm, (defn qsort [[pivot & xs]] .. ) - exactly what are the arguments to this function?
22:50	qbg	A sequence
22:50	vIkSiT	a vector of vectors?
22:50	qbg	It does destructuring
22:50	vIkSiT	qbg, hmm, so a sequence how exactly? a pivot sequence, and an xs sequence?
22:50	qbg	No, the first item becomes pivot, and the rest becomes xs
22:50	vIkSiT	qbg, could you explain a bit about th destructuring process (and how it works/gets invoked)?
22:51	vIkSiT	aah
22:51	vIkSiT	so basically, its like the head and tail
22:51	qbg	Yes
22:52	qbg	See http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special%20Forms--%28let%20[bindings%20]%20exprs%29
22:52	vIkSiT	so, if I were to declare a function like (defn myfn [[v1 v2 v3 & restelem]] ..)
22:52	vIkSiT	then the first 3 elements of the seq are v1, v2 and v3..
22:52	vIkSiT	and restelem is the remaining sequence.
22:52	qbg	Correct
22:52	vIkSiT	ah great. thanks for the link as well
22:56	tomoj	that would be bad for google, I think
22:56	tomoj	though maybe "clojure cake" would be enough
22:56	TheBusby	have fun googling "clojure ->"
22:58	ninjudd	rake gets by ok
22:58	ninjudd	though there are not as many search results for rake
22:59	ninjudd	first result for "clojure cake": You are what makes Clojure great - find some cake and celebrate! ...
23:02	ninjudd	TheBusby: that's google's fault, they need advanced options for searching for symbols
23:02	TheBusby	that's certainly true, but it doesn't make it less frustrating
23:03	ninjudd	"clojure threading operator" returns some results
23:04	TheBusby	I just wish we could add a few simple examples in the doc strings, and hence eliminate the need to google for examples
23:05	tomoj	seen cljex?
23:05	tomoj	and/or walton?
23:05	tomoj	I think both of those are trying to address your concern
23:06	TheBusby	not yet, but I'm excited to hear that and am googling them now
23:07	tomoj	both by defn
23:07	TheBusby	great work, I still wish the examples could be appended to the current doc strings though.
23:08	tomoj	I think I like them outside the source where people can contribute/modify/interact without needing to commit into clojure
23:09	TheBusby	how much updating do you image would happen though for things like "concat" ?
23:10	wlangstroth	TheBusby: I'm working on it (more examples) but it's slow going
23:11	TheBusby	understandably and I commend you for it.
23:11	TheBusby	I'd volunteer my time as well but not until we finally decide upon where they fit in clojure
23:12	TheBusby	not two months ago I expressed similars concerns and the consensus was to add examples to the wiki
23:13	wlangstroth	I'm just collecting them myself - sometimes off walton, but usually just doing the simplest thing possible with the function
23:13	wlangstroth	eventually, I'll get people to tell me which ones aren't helpful
23:13	TheBusby	yeah, I have my own little cheat buffer I keep with examples for various calls
23:14	TheBusby	I just wish the doc string looked more like a man page and less like a javadoc
23:14	ninjudd	wow! checking out walton. what a great idea
23:15	lancepantz	i use walton all the time
23:15	lancepantz	thought i had told you about it
23:15	ninjudd	be nice if each example had the result too
23:15	ninjudd	lancepantz: maybe
23:16	ninjudd	i've never seen it in action though
23:16	lancepantz	that would enforce all of them to be independently valid though
23:16	lancepantz	he just scrapes the logs for inputs to the repl bot
23:16	ninjudd	seems invalid examples wouldn't be very useful
23:17	ninjudd	oh, you mean they may depend on other commands
23:17	lancepantz	yeah
23:17	lancepantz	i guess the repl bot would have the same problem though
23:17	ninjudd	does it keep state?
23:17	clojurebot	mutable state is bad
23:18	lancepantz	hahaha
23:18	ninjudd	,(def foo 1)
23:18	clojurebot	DENIED
23:18	ninjudd	i see
23:19	Raynes	I'm fairly certain that walton scrapes the examples and runs each one of them to see if they are valid.
23:20	lancepantz	i thought he also had the book example in there
23:20	lancepantz	but maybe thats just a planned thing
23:21	wlangstroth	TheBusby: are you keeping any of those examples in a public place?
23:21	TheBusby	wlangstroth: unfortunately not yet
23:21	TheBusby	I'd be happy to give them out after I've cleaned them up a bit
23:24	wlangstroth	cool, thanks
23:28	TheBusby	I've actually had the best luck so far just grepping through contrib
23:29	TheBusby	I created a simple bash script that just does the following, "find ${CLOJURE_HOME}/clojure-contrib/src/clojure/contrib/ \| grep clj$ \| xargs -i grep --color=auto -inH $1 {}"
23:29	TheBusby	for more complex items like zipmap though, I've relied on google
23:37	arohner	clojure needs a warn-on-slow-math