#clojure – 2010-03-26

2010-03-26

00:18	phren0logy	can anyone give me a hand with the most recent checkout of labrepl? It seems to have broken the swank server script.
03:08	underdev	is there an idiom for declaring that a function has side effects?
03:09	underdev	i have a whole set of functions that use the Robot class, and i would like to refactor them, and convey the fact that they are not pure
03:11	Chousuke	well, you can add a ! to the name
03:11	noidi	I think that's quite common
03:11	noidi	that's what I do, too
03:12	noidi	I think that comes from scheme http://www.rscheme.org/rs/b/0.7.3.3/21/doc/x162.html
03:12	Chousuke	it's not always done, though
03:12	underdev	okay, that will work fine
03:13	Chousuke	often, documenting the side-effects is good enough
03:14	underdev	i'm trying to work my way up several layers of abstraction, and at some point i will no longer remember that foo contains side effects
03:14	underdev	i know me, and trust me, i won't keep track :)
03:15	underdev	won't/can't...
03:24	zmila	underdev - you may use -se postfix or prefix for side-effect functions
03:24	slyphon	i thought the convention was to postfix w/ !
03:48	talios	evening everyone
04:04	LauJensen	Morning all
04:12	talios	'lo
04:58	gko	hello
05:02	talios	'lo
05:13	talios	grr - (json-str) is escaping /'s when it outputs "http://xxx" - annoying.
05:16	talios	altho it looks like thats valid behaviour.
06:43	zmila	so quiet for friday ...
06:47	unfo-	zmila, YOU LIEK THIS BETTAR THEN? ^^
06:51	npoektop	sorry. echo check
06:55	manniche	Hi Lau, thanks for your inspiring talk @DKUUG on clojure. Fortunately I'll have the entire Easter holiday to dive (more) into clojure.
06:55	LauJensen	manniche: Hey - My pleasure, I'm glad you decided to try it out :)
07:13	noidi	damn, Enclojure crashes with a NullPointerException when I try to create a new Clojure project
07:14	noidi	even upgrading to Netbeans 6.8 didn't help
07:14	LauJensen	noidi: check out my blog
07:14	LauJensen	~google Clojure IDEs the grand tour
07:14	clojurebot	First, out of 457 results is:
07:14	clojurebot	Clojure IDEs — The Grand Tour \| BEST IN CLASS
07:14	clojurebot	http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2010/03/clojure-ides-the-grand-tour-getting-started/
07:15	LauJensen	In the very bottom you see 2 updates to the post explaining how to fix that
07:15	noidi	LauJensen, ah, you got that fixed
07:15	LauJensen	Yes ma'am
07:15	noidi	thanks
07:16	noidi	I decided to give a "real" IDE a try after years of Vim and Emacs, but the first impression wasn't too good :)
07:17	LauJensen	Trust me, it gets better than that NPE :)
07:17	noidi	hehe
07:28	noidi	yay, updating the plugins seemed to fix the NPE for me
07:38	noidi	after 10 minutes it's back to Emacs for me... too many widgets, too little source code -- I can't think in an environment like that! :)
07:39	noidi	the problem with being able to discover everything by looking at the app, is that you have to stare at everything all the time :P
07:44	LauJensen	10 minutes...hmm. I think you did good :)
09:26	LauJensen	It constantly surprises me that Chrome doesn't accept C-x o to switch tabs
09:29	SynrG	LauJensen: C-PgUp, C-PgDn :)
09:29	LauJensen	SynrG: fine, but how do I get C-a C-k working in the adress line?
09:29	SynrG	the whole world has not yet embraced emacs, and you're surprised?
09:30	SynrG	i don't even know what that does :p
09:30	LauJensen	Move to start of the line then kill line :)
09:31	SynrG	C-a C-x i guess. but now you've trashed your paste buffer. hmmm
09:32	SynrG	but yeah, it's annoying when your "finger memory" of things doesn't transfer well from app to app
09:33	SynrG	hmm, C-a Backspace
09:42	_2x2l	noidi: netbeans is crap. intellij is the only way to go for java. i duno about clojure since i use emacs, but don't let netbeans taint your idea of what a good ide does.
09:42	_2x2l	i'd imagine intellij might be half decent for clojure, and eclipse is probably halfway decent too (though i bet has a huge memory footprint).
09:44	fogus	_2x21: "imagine"? "probably"? "bet"? Are you not familiar with those IDEs?
09:45	callen	fogus: it's the internet. uninformed conjecture based on gut feeling told around a campfire all the while Alan Kay is rolling in his grave. Questions?
09:45	callen	too bad Alan Kay isn't dead :D
09:45	callen	maybe he sleeps in a coffin.
09:45	callen	yeah, that's it. he rolls in his nightly coffin.
09:46	fogus	callen: Only one... where are my marshmallows? http://www.campo-ongo.org/pics/campfire.jpeg
09:46	callen	fogus: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=the+hated+campfire
09:48	zmila	,(let [ [f & r] #{2 3 4}] [f r])
09:48	clojurebot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: PersistentHashSet
09:49	fogus	,(let [ [f & r] (seq #{2 3 4})] [f r]) ; don't count on order
09:49	clojurebot	[2 (3 4)]
09:52	zmila	tĥ fogus! i see
09:52	zmila	thx
09:53	bsteuber	fogus: so why doesn't destructuring call seq for you? too inefficient?
09:53	fogus	zmila: np
09:54	fogus	,[(seq [1]) (seq [])]
09:54	clojurebot	[(1) nil]
09:56	noidi	cemerick, thanks for the interesting blog post and screencast! You convinced me to start reading the maven book :)
10:01	fogus	bsteuber: That's a good question
10:05	fogus	bsteuber: I suppose because that defeats the specificities of access per collection type
10:06	fogus	,(let [{x 1, y 2} #{1 2 3 4}] [x y])
10:06	clojurebot	[1 2]
10:07	fogus	,(let [{x 1, y 2} {1 2 3 4}] [x y])
10:07	clojurebot	[2 nil]
10:07	fogus	,(let [{x 1, y 2} [1 2 3 4]] [x y])
10:07	clojurebot	[2 3]
10:08	fogus	,(let [{x 1, y 2} (seq [1 2 3 4])] [x y])
10:08	clojurebot	[nil nil]
10:08	zmila	8-)
10:14	cemerick	noidi: good to hear :-) Feel free to ping me if you have any questions. Definitely check out the clojure-maven-plugin list http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-maven-plugin, and the #maven channel is also helpful.
10:20	bsteuber	fogus: ic, so map destructuring only works on IFn?
10:21	bsteuber	but when I think it over, it makes sense for array destructuring to only work on sequential? stuff
10:21	bsteuber	as you can't rely on the order otherwise
10:36	wthidden	does doseq hold on its head?
10:36	wthidden	*to its head
10:36	chouser	hm, shouldn't.
10:37	wthidden	if have a (doseq [k (range 0 100000000000000)] (func 'a 'b))
10:37	wthidden	that seems to run out of memory after 24 hours or so.
10:39	wthidden	what about leakage with java udp sockets? Anything special other than closing them when I'm done?
10:41	phren0logy	has anyone been using stuart halloway's LabREPL from github?
10:42	gfodor	what exactly is it? the readme wasn't clear and I didn't pull it
10:43	phren0logy	gfodor: It's a "lab" for learning clojure. But the more recent updates seem to have jacked up the slime server interaction.
10:43	phren0logy	gfodor: It runs a web server with tutorials, and is supposed to set up a repl to try the exercises that have some libraries available
10:44	gfodor	i see
10:44	gfodor	thx
10:44	phren0logy	sure
10:44	phren0logy	do you use emacs?
10:44	gfodor	vimclojure for me
10:44	lpetit	,(let [{x 1, y 2} (seq [1 2 3 4])] [x y]) ; why couldn't it result in [2 nil] ?
10:44	clojurebot	[nil nil]
10:45	phren0logy	ah. well I'm trying to trouble shoot why I can't get it to work, but I'm not having much luck. Check it out, you may have better luck.
10:50	bsteuber	,('(1 2 3 4) 1)
10:50	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
10:50	bsteuber	lpetit: so seqs are not callable
10:51	bsteuber	phren0logy: I didn't get it to work with swank, be the shell repl and website were okay
10:51	bsteuber	lein deps did the job for me
10:51	phren0logy	bsteuber
10:52	phren0logy	Thanks. I had it working 2 days ago, but the recent updates seem to have broken it
10:52	phren0logy	good to know it's not just me, I wasn't sure if I broke something
10:53	hiredman	lpetit: seqs are not indexed
10:53	bsteuber	,(let [[x y] (seq [1 2 3 4])] [x y]) ; but they are ordered
10:53	clojurebot	[1 2]
10:56	lpetit	hiredman: yes, I understand that.
10:57	lpetit	,(clojure-version)
10:57	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: PersistentArrayMap
10:57	lpetit	,(clojure-version)
10:57	clojurebot	"1.1.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
11:18	licoresse	There is assoc-in, get-in and update-in, is there a dissoc-in or a similar workaround?
11:20	raek	dissoc-in exists in clojure.contrib.core
11:20	licoresse	raek: thanks!
11:26	stuartsierra	What exactly does the &env special macro argument do?
11:27	Chousuke	stuartsierra: it contains the locals expansion environment I think
11:27	Chousuke	locals of the*
11:28	chouser	stuartsierra: gives you a map where the keys are the symbols of all the locals at the point where the macro is being expanded.
11:28	stuartsierra	But not their values, it seems.
11:28	chouser	their values aren't known at compile time. :-)
11:28	chouser	er, at macro-expand time.
11:28	stuartsierra	Well, they could be in the case of (let [x 1] ...) but I see the point.
11:28	chouser	the values in the map are Compiler$Something objects, which I expect will change
11:28	stuartsierra	ok
11:29	stuartsierra	So basically &env lets a macro inspect its lexical context.
11:30	chouser	yes
11:30	stuartsierra	ok, thanks
11:32	chouser	the value is a Compiler$LocalBinding, which has fields like .isArg (true if it's a fn arg instead of a let-local), .init (a Compiler expression of the analyzed init value, like perhaps a Compiler$ConstantExpr, .tag, etc.)
11:32	stuartsierra	hm, ok
11:32	chouser	but like I said, I think that will change to something a bit more transparent with ccinc
11:32	stuartsierra	right
11:32	stuartsierra	ccinc needs a better name
11:32	chouser	for now all I've been able to use &env for is to collect metadata from the local symbol itself.
11:32	stuartsierra	Like "nirvana"
11:33	chouser	(let [#^{:my :meta} i 5] ... (foo i ...))
11:33	stuartsierra	chouser: yes, that makes sense
11:34	chouser	where foo is a macro that at macro-expand time looks up its arg i in &env to find the let's i and from there gets at :my :meta
11:34	drewr	o_O
11:36	chouser	(defmacro foo [local etc] (let [[orig-local _] (find &env local), my-meta (meta orig-local)] ...))
11:36	licoresse	one problem with dissoc-in is that it removes the whole branch, and not only the last leaf
11:39	licoresse	I have a {:upper {5 #{:d}, 15 #{:d} :lower {20 #{:x}} when dissoc -in [:lower 20] I end up with {:upper {5 #{:d}, 15 #{:d}} what I would like is {:upper {5 #{:d}, 15 #{:d} :lower {}}
11:39	licoresse	I don't know if this makes any sense to you guys
11:40	licoresse	everything here is in a (dosync (alter ...)
11:41	drewr	licoresse: I'm following you, and I think I agree
11:41	licoresse	drewr: :) guess a private rewrite of dissoc-in should solve it (?)
11:42	drewr	where is dissoc-in defined?
11:42	Chousuke	,(dissoc {:a 5} :a)
11:42	clojurebot	{}
11:42	licoresse	contrib.core
11:43	licoresse	my brain is kind of blasted after 5 days of clojure fun
11:44	Chousuke	I suppose you can do (update-in [:lower] dissoc 20) as a workaround
11:45	licoresse	Chousuke: I'll give it a try...
11:46	Chousuke	but I think the asymmetry of dissoc-in with dissoc can be considered a bug
11:46	licoresse	Chousuke: great, that works!
11:47	licoresse	wondering why dissoc-in is in contrib and not in core?
11:48	Chousuke	Probably because Rich never needed it, and no-one has proposed adding it to core :)
11:48	licoresse	ah, the benevolent dictator
11:48	chouser	I'm not sure how often removing the whole branch is desirable
11:49	licoresse	just kidding
11:56	drewr	fwiw, I've only ever needed update-in
11:57	drewr	and get-in occasionally
11:57	chouser	I tend to use -> instead of get-in
11:57	drewr	chouser++
11:58	AWizzArd	,(doc get-in)
11:58	clojurebot	"([m ks]); returns the value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys"
12:00	AWizzArd	Hmm yes, I also used -> instead of get-in, but on the other hand get-in better documents the code.
12:00	drewr	wouldn't -?> be better than ->? (wow, that's confusing)
12:01	AWizzArd	,(doc -?>)
12:01	clojurebot	No entiendo
12:01	drewr	no, drewr, get-in handles nil just fine
12:02	chouser	so does -> when all you're using are keywords
12:02	drewr	ah, true
12:11	lithpr	begun the tweet wars about learning java has!
12:12	noss	what happens on twitter stays on twitter
12:12	AWizzArd	chouser: yes, it is clear what -> does, but get-in can be grepped for, and it is more specific. I find that more specific functions document the code better.
12:41	rrc7cz-hm	are there any tricks which allow keywords to have metadata?
12:44	drewr	rrc7cz-hm: what would you like to accomplish?
12:44	drewr	a keyword is a named constant; metadata seems orthogonal
12:45	rrc7cz-hm	drewr: I have nested map structures where they keys are keywords. Since they are nested, there is a sort of coordinate system based on keys. For example [:foo :bar] identifies 3 in {:foo {:bar 3}}, much like the zipper fns
12:46	rrc7cz-hm	drewr: these maps represent product configurations. I'd like to add metadata to certain coordinates so that the system can identify whether it's visible or not
12:46	rrc7cz-hm	for example
12:47	stuartsierra	,(identical? :foo :foo)
12:47	clojurebot	true
12:47	rrc7cz-hm	I could, of course, simply add a :visible true entry to the relevant coordinate, but visibility really has nothing to do with a product configuration; it's metadata the system would use
12:47	stuartsierra	Keywords are singletons.
12:47	raek	two keywords with the same name are always the same instance
12:48	rrc7cz-hm	stuartsierra: what about namespaced keywords
12:48	drewr	rrc7cz-hm: why not add meta to the coordinate map?
12:48	drewr	e.g., (with-meta {:foo {:bar 3}} {[:foo :bar] :visible})
12:48	rrc7cz-hm	,(identical? ::foo ::foo)
12:48	clojurebot	true
12:48	rrc7cz-hm	well, in the same ns
12:48	raek	rrc7cz-hm: you could use [:foo :bar] as a key and add metadata to that
12:49	rrc7cz-hm	drewr: that's my backup plan, but it's not as nice. I'd basically have a map's metadata shadowing the entire structure of the map itself
12:50	drewr	it seems better to me because now you have an attribute tied to an exact coordinate instead of on :foo or :bar (but maybe that's what you want)
12:50	drewr	those vector keys are really useful too with update-in/get-in
12:51	drewr	the other option is to not bother with the nested map and just use the meta
12:51	drewr	{[:foo :bar] {:visible true :val 3}} or some such
12:51	rrc7cz-hm	raek: I would, but I'm loading directly from couchdb, which only supports assoc arrays (no complex types as keys). I could make the translation, it would just be more work
12:52	rrc7cz-hm	the vec as key is a pretty nice option. I'll just have to do a bit more translating
12:54	rrc7cz-hm	I'm also wondering if somebody can explain how fn equality is done
12:54	rrc7cz-hm	,(= range range)
12:54	clojurebot	true
12:55	hiredman	rrc7cz-hm: I think it's just reference equality
12:55	rrc7cz-hm	,(= #(range %) #(range %))
12:55	clojurebot	false
12:55	rrc7cz-hm	okay
12:55	hiredman	,(identical? range range)
12:55	clojurebot	true
12:55	hiredman	,(identical? #(range %) #(range %))
12:55	clojurebot	false
12:59	drewr	,#(range %)
12:59	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval__4265$fn__4267 sandbox$eval__4265$fn__4267@8690e3>
12:59	drewr	,#(range %)
12:59	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval__4272$fn__4274 sandbox$eval__4272$fn__4274@11aed03>
12:59	drewr	,range
12:59	clojurebot	#<core$range__5186 clojure.core$range__5186@8634b6>
12:59	drewr	,range
12:59	clojurebot	#<core$range__5186 clojure.core$range__5186@8634b6>
13:00	drewr	rrc7cz-hm: #(..) creates a new, separate lambda each time
13:00	rrc7cz-hm	Just out of curiosity, what kind of issues might you run in to trying to build a logical equality operator for fns?
13:00	drewr	whereas range is a Var that points to the range function
13:00	rrc7cz-hm	I mean, since they're just lists, wouldn't it be fairly straightforward?
13:02	TalkingHead	I have a function that populates a struct, but I'm having trouble getting the struct as my return value...
13:03	TalkingHead	from-s (geo-code from "AFRICA")
13:03	TalkingHead	(defstruct map-point :name :country :latitude :longitude)
13:03	TalkingHead	and then geo-code populates something like this:
13:03	TalkingHead	(struct map-point n m lat lon )])
13:05	thelatemrb	quit
13:05	drewr	TalkingHead: paste the code
13:05	drewr	(not in here)
13:10	TalkingHead	drewr: http://gist.github.com/345121
13:12	slyphon	technomancy: hey, i'm having a problem with AOT compilation, it seems fairly difficult to compile a bunch of custom exceptions defined with gen-class for use in other parts of my app
13:13	slyphon	it barfs telling me that those classes couldn't be found while i'm trying to compile those classes
13:13	slyphon	oh, ffs
13:14	slyphon	nvm, it was my "user.clj" file, i thought that only got sourced when running the REPL
13:15	ipostelnik	TalkingHead, (prn s) returns nil
13:16	ipostelnik	TalkingHead, you can do (let [s ....] (prn s) s)
13:16	drewr	TalkingHead: you're returning the value of doseq from geo-code, which is always nil
13:16	TalkingHead	aha, thx
13:43	alexyk	,(map (fn [a b] [a b]) [1 2 3] (iterate inc 0))
13:43	clojurebot	([1 0] [2 1] [3 2])
13:43	alexyk	is there a shorter way to write the fn?
13:44	Chousuke	map vector
13:45	alexyk	ha
13:45	alexyk	cool
13:49	jcromartie	OK so this is pretty much awesome
13:49	jcromartie	(Thread. #(loop [chars (cycle "\|/-\\")] (print "\r" (first chars)) (.flush out) (Thread/sleep 100) (recur (rest chars))))
13:50	jcromartie	if you find yourself in need of an ASCII-art spinner
14:56	licoresse	What is the difference between :require and :use in ns?
14:58	licoresse	never mind: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/871997/use-vs-require-in-clojure
15:04	licoresse	argh
15:04	licoresse	No such var: sel/composite-selection
15:04	licoresse	[Thrown class java.lang.Exception]
15:06	licoresse	I am (ns ... (:use [something.whatever :as sel])) in the module, but it responds with this ^
15:06	licoresse	Everything worked a couple of minutes ago
15:06	licoresse	now, everywhere where I am using sel/composite-selection the compiler complains
15:07	licoresse	(def composite-selection ....)
15:16	slyphon	technomancy: hey, i'm having a real hard time with AOT compilation and running swank
15:18	licoresse	I needed to (use '....) at the repl, then it worked again
15:18	licoresse	thats hogwash
15:19	licoresse	trying to restart emacs to see if I can reproduce
15:23	slyphon	ARRGH
15:24	licoresse	hehe
15:24	licoresse	I know the feeling
15:25	licoresse	running swank-clojure-project solves everything, only problems with lein swank
15:25	licoresse	or better; my lack of understanding
16:24	slyphon	doh! you can't attach metadata to java objects?
16:24	slyphon	lame!
16:24	chouser	heh. where would just metadata be stored?
16:24	slyphon	that's someone else's problem!
16:24	slyphon	:D
16:25	chouser	:-)
16:25	slyphon	chouser: i'm looking at error-kit
16:25	chouser	has to derive from IObj or IMeta to support metadata
16:25	chouser	slyphon: oh yeah? and what are you thinking?
16:25	chouser	are you thinking "what was he thinking!?"
16:25	slyphon	the reason i was thinking the above because i was like "Oh, i'll just attach some metadata to a RuntimeException instance..."
16:25	slyphon	no, i understand what you were thinking
16:26	chouser	because I think that's what I think when I think about error-kit
16:26	slyphon	hahahahahah
16:26	slyphon	it's a little convoluted
16:26	chouser	yes
16:26	chouser	too convoluted
16:26	slyphon	very CL-ey
16:26	slyphon	but
16:26	chouser	in a lot of cases contrib's condition is all you need
16:26	clojurebot	CL conditions is http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html
16:26	chouser	perfect for attaching a little extra data to an exception
16:27	slyphon	the problem i've been having is that i can't seem to get clojure to "see" the AOT compiled Exception subclasses i make
16:27	slyphon	hmm
16:27	slyphon	yeah, i looked at that as well, and was similarly baffled
16:29	chouser	rhickey has said error-kit confuses him so that's, you know, a bad sign.
16:29	slyphon	hahahahah
16:29	slyphon	well, it seems like you're implementing custom stack-unwinding or something
16:29	chouser	yes, in error-kit
16:30	slyphon	ok, i just wanted to make sure i kind of grokked what was goin' on
16:30	chouser	but that's only half the problem. It has a little object system in there that is ill-conceived.
16:30	slyphon	heh
16:31	chouser	basically, error-kit is a fairly thoughtless attempt to support CL conditions in Clojure, plus an extra feature or two just because they were easy to add.
16:31	slyphon	:)
16:32	slyphon	hrm
16:33	slyphon	ahhh
16:33	slyphon	ok, so Condition is a Throwable that implements IMeta
16:35	slyphon	hmm
16:36	slyphon	chouser: who would i submit a doc-string patch to?
16:36	slyphon	i think some of the condition docs could be a little more clear
16:40	technomancy	slyphon: in general I'd suggest sticking with Exceptions if you're having AOT trouble with custom classes
16:40	slyphon	yeah, i think i was just doing it wrong
16:40	technomancy	then go back and replace them with your custom exceptions once you've got a better handle on things
16:41	technomancy	unnecessary AOT can be a huge time sink
16:41	slyphon	i wasn't 100% aware that you had to make a foo/MyException.clj for (ns foo.MyException {:gen-class :extends Throwable})
16:41	slyphon	i was trying to put multiple (ns) forms in a single file
16:42	technomancy	aha
16:42	clojurebot	Paul Graham is the creator of the other new lisp
16:42	slyphon	which is fail
16:42	technomancy	gen-class for reasons other than -main and java interop is pretty suspect
16:42	slyphon	but, i'm thinkin' ill just give clojure.contrib.condition a shot
16:45	hiredman	slyphon: the problem there is the ns form, not gen-class
16:45	hiredman	I would look at using gen-class directly
16:46	slyphon	ah
16:46	slyphon	ok, that makes sense
16:47	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/34229 from the dawn of time
16:47	slyphon	oooh
16:47	slyphon	interesting
16:47	hiredman	you still have to aot compile
16:58	slyphon	it'd be nice if there were some variant of (ns (:require [foo.bar [baz :as baz]])) to get rid of the repetition
16:58	slyphon	unless there is one that i just don't know about
17:01	LauJensen	Whats the fn to check if what Im holding is a primitive?
17:05	technomancy	slyphon: there's talk of adding that; someone has started prototyping it
17:05	slyphon	ah, cool
17:05	slyphon	yeah, i find myself doing that a lot
17:05	technomancy	see the "ns overhaul" thread on the clojure-dev list
17:05	slyphon	ah, cool
17:06	chouser	LauJensen: repl-utils expression-info
17:07	slyphon	do people generally just use clojure.test ?
17:07	technomancy	slyphon: unless you're the author of one of the competing frameworks, you're probably using clojure.test
17:07	slyphon	:)
17:08	slyphon	are any of the other competinf frameworks any good/worth checking out?
17:08	slyphon	competing* even
17:08	LauJensen	chouser: thanks
17:08	technomancy	slyphon: not yet, unless you're interested in contributing
17:09	slyphon	ah
17:09	chouser	LauJensen: not it operates on forms (like macroexpand) not on return values
17:09	slyphon	thanks, i have enough of my own shitty code to contend with :)
17:09	LauJensen	chouser: Would be easier if I could check returns, any way to do that?
17:10	alexyk	,(map (fn [x] [x 1]) [1 2 3]) ; this works
17:10	clojurebot	([1 1] [2 1] [3 1])
17:10	alexyk	,(map (fn #([% ]) [1 2 3]) ; this doesn't -- why?
17:10	clojurebot	EOF while reading
17:10	alexyk	,(map (fn #([% ]) [1 2 3]))
17:10	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol
17:10	slyphon	um
17:11	alexyk	i.e., hod do we do #([% 1]) right with %?
17:11	alexyk	how
17:11	slyphon	(vec %) ?
17:13	alexyk	I need to return new vectors of two elements, first from the original, second fixed -- here it's 1
17:13	alexyk	same behavior as (map (fn [x] [x 1]) [1 2 3])
17:13	alexyk	i.e. the question is to rewrite (fn [x] [x 1]) with #(...%...)
17:14	slyphon	,(map #(vec (list % 1)) [1 2 3])
17:14	clojurebot	([1 1] [2 1] [3 1])
17:15	alexyk	ah,
17:15	alexyk	,(map #(vector % 1) [1 2 3])
17:15	clojurebot	([1 1] [2 1] [3 1])
17:15	slyphon	that too :)
17:17	chouser	LauJensen: well, that's a problem since functions only return boxed things.
17:18	LauJensen	chouser: You mean rich has to provide a special form... hint hint
17:32	licoresse	,(map vector '1 [1 2 3])
17:32	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer
17:32	licoresse	,(map vector [1] [1 2 3])
17:32	clojurebot	([1 1])
17:32	hiredman	you have to use repeat
17:32	licoresse	,(map vector (repeat 1) [1 2 3])
17:32	clojurebot	([1 1] [1 2] [1 3])
17:32	licoresse	right
17:33	chouser	LauJensen: you should be able to use a debugger to see what the type of a local is -- primitive or otherwise
17:33	alexyk	good good
17:33	LauJensen	chouser: Yea, but this is really an area where I hope Clojure improves rapidly. The lack of reflection warnings and insight into boxing is making optimizing a very tough job
17:36	Raynes	Licenser: ping
17:36	Licenser	Raynes: pong
17:36	Raynes	Licenser: Was there a particular reason that 'def' was whitelisted?
17:36	Raynes	Seems like something one should whitelist themselves if they need it.
17:36	Raynes	Because it can pollute the namespace.
17:38	Licenser	Raynes: It was in the lists, not in the whitelist, I guess it slipped in when we went from multiple vars to a map
17:38	Raynes	Ah. It was in variable-fns. I removed it last night.
17:38	slyphon	technomancy: if i want leiningen to compile clojure.contrib.condition.Condition, do i put :namespaces [c.c.c.C] or [c.c.c] ?
17:39	Raynes	As a matter of fact, it is all that was in variable-fns. :p
17:39	Licenser	heh
17:39	Raynes	When I get some time, I'll go through the entire Clojure API and add stuff. I've been busy over the last couple of days.
17:41	slyphon	technomancy: i have :namespaces [clojure.contrib.condition.Condition], but lein compile says "all :namespaces already compiled", but i look in classes/ and the Condition.class file isn't there
17:44	technomancy	slyphon: contrib should be AOT'd for you; no need to do it yourself
17:44	slyphon	oh
17:44	slyphon	duh
17:44	slyphon	technomancy: i'm sorry, i'm not normally this retarded
17:45	licoresse	how was that :keys destructuring again?
17:47	technomancy	slyphon: happens to everyone at some point
17:47	slyphon	yeah, must be early-onset stupidity
18:02	Raynes	,(doc "blah")
18:02	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
18:02	Raynes	Is there a way to turn a string into what doc can take?
18:02	Raynes	,(doc (symbol "blah")) ; obviously doesn't work.
18:02	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
18:06	Licenser	Raynes: find-doc
18:06	Licenser	,(find-doc "bla")
18:06	clojurebot	------------------------- hiredman.clojurebot.core/inits ([[f & r :as c]]) again I blame Chouser ------------------------- hiredman.clojurebot.factoids/inits ([[f & r :as c]]) again I blame Chouser
18:07	Licenser	what?
18:07	clojurebot	what is short for ,(doc ...)
18:07	defn	hi all
18:07	Raynes	find-doc wont work in this situation.
18:07	Raynes	Because it can return more than one result.
18:09	Licenser	kk
18:09	slyphon	it would be nice if there were a way of having some "standard" group of things that you want to use in all your namespaces
18:10	Raynes	Hrm.
18:10	slyphon	like clojure.contrib.logging
18:11	technomancy	slyphon: http://onclojure.com/2010/02/17/managing-namespaces/
18:11	slyphon	ooh
18:11	slyphon	technomancy: ty
18:11	technomancy	it's a little rough, but looks promising
18:11	technomancy	I've wanted something like that too
18:12	slyphon	yah, i was thinking of setting up a macro i can just call by default in each namespace
18:12	slyphon	that would live in one location
18:17	Raynes	Eh, looks like hiredman write a cryptic macro to work around this little issue.
18:18	slyphon	Raynes: link?
18:19	Raynes	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/blob/master/src/hiredman/sandbox.clj#L93
18:20	Raynes	Yeah. I miss the old doc that took a string.
18:20	Raynes	It should have been moved to doc-string or something.
18:20	slyphon	you could probalby use (eval) for that no?
18:20	slyphon	or write a macro?
18:21	Licenser	Raynes: thanks for adding the additional functions :)
18:21	slyphon	nah, you'd need eval i think
18:21	Raynes	Licenser: Why isn't doc whitelistable again?
18:22	Licenser	hmm most likely because I forgot it
18:22	Raynes	It doesn't seem to work even if you whitelist it.
18:23	Raynes	Licenser: Nope, just confirmed. It doesn't allow it even if it's whitelisted.
18:24	Licenser	Raynes: ah because it is an macro then
18:24	Licenser	,(macroexpand '(doc "doc"))
18:24	clojurebot	(let* [m__1734__auto__ (clojure.core/meta (clojure.core/resolve (quote "doc"))) al__1735__auto__ (:arglists m__1734__auto__) docstring__1736__auto__ (:doc m__1734__auto__)] (if m__1734__auto__ (.replaceAll (clojure.core/str al__1735__auto__ "; " docstring__1736__auto__) "\\s+" " ") (clojure.core/-> hiredman.clojurebot.code-lookup/contrib :vars ((clojure.core/partial clojure.core/filter (clojure.core/fn [a__1737__auto__] (c
18:24	Licenser	oi I'm not sure if whitelisting resolve is good,
18:24	Raynes	Licenser: That's hiredman's special doc. Doesn't count.
18:24	Licenser	or meta
18:24	Licenser	ah okay
18:24	Raynes	Licenser: Try doing it in your own REPL.
18:25	Licenser	because the function si called print-doc?
18:25	Raynes	Apparently so. :o
18:25	Licenser	heh
18:26	Raynes	Kay.
18:26	defn	any fun ideas for obfuscated clojure?
18:26	Raynes	Lot's of commas.
18:26	defn	:)
18:27	Raynes	Licenser: I'll add print-doc to the whitelist later.
18:28	defn	,`@#'f
18:28	clojurebot	(clojure.core/deref (var sandbox/f))
18:30	defn	,`~*
18:30	clojurebot	#<core$_STAR___4526 clojure.core$_STAR___4526@1ab5fd5>
18:31	defn	,`~'@*
18:31	clojurebot	(clojure.core/deref *)
18:31	defn	that could be ugly
18:35	licoresse	How can I create an array of floats in Clojure? Tried (into-array Float [10.0 20.0])
18:36	licoresse	Yes, I'm a java noob
18:36	defn	,(doc float-array)
18:36	clojurebot	"([size-or-seq] [size init-val-or-seq]); Creates an array of floats"
18:37	licoresse	thanks defn
18:37	hiredman	hiredman.clojurebot.code-lookup/contrib is broken
18:37	hiredman	:/
18:37	defn	licoresse: I think there's a way to use into-array like you're doing above, but it needs to be Float/something for the type IIRC
18:37	hiredman	replaca_: the vars stuff in the json is empty
18:39	defn	licoresse: you could do this:
18:39	defn	,(into-array (map float [1.0 2.0 3.0]))
18:39	clojurebot	#<Float[] [Ljava.lang.Float;@129f6e7>
18:42	licoresse	defn: that won't do it for BasicStroke
18:42	licoresse	the float-array works swell
18:44	defn	(floats (float-array [1 2 3]))
18:44	defn	,(floats (float-array [1 2 3]))
18:44	clojurebot	#<float[] [F@8e4ea6>
18:44	defn	licoresse: i was curious -- that's from chouser awhile back
18:45	licoresse	why cast it to floats first?
18:46	licoresse	(float-array [1 2 3])
18:46	licoresse	,(float-array [1 2 3])
18:46	clojurebot	#<float[] [F@fb241d>
18:49	hiredman	floats is for if you are using let in an inner loop and want to avoid array reflection
18:53	licoresse	I see
19:01	Raynes	,(let [x 3] (let [x (+ x 5)] (println x)))
19:01	clojurebot	8
19:02	Raynes	That isn't cute.
19:06	alexyk	Raynes: did you expect 2010?
19:07	alexyk	Raynes: btw, rename clojure-casual to clojure-cajual
19:07	alexyk	...snd serve some cajun food
19:07	alexyk	there
19:07	Raynes	alexyk: No, I expected it to be like Haskell and not allow me to do that. :p
19:07	Raynes	And, psykotic didn't like the idea of cajual.
19:09	hiredman	,(let [x 3 x (+ x 5)] x)
19:09	clojurebot	8
19:09	alexyk	so, nested x is not rebinding the outer, it's shadowing it, so all is cool, no?
19:09	alexyk	and hiredman actually redefines it
19:09	alexyk	so what, it's expected
19:10	alexyk	if Haskell doesn't like it, -- deal with it, Haskell!
19:10	Raynes	I didn't expect it. Haskell assumptions.
19:10	slyphon	has 1.2 been released yet?
19:10	alexyk	"Clojure: rebinding Haskell's mama"
19:10	joshua-choi	slyphon: I don't think so
19:10	slyphon	bummer
19:11	alexyk	how do you slurp now?
19:12	joshua-choi	I mean, like (fn [first-arg & rest-args] ...)
19:12	alexyk	ah ok
19:12	joshua-choi	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/commit/29389970bcd41998359681d9a4a20ee391a1e07c
19:14	alexyk	nice
19:14	joshua-choi	Question: how can you check if an object can turn into a sequence, i.e. if (seq x) will not throw an Exception?
19:15	joshua-choi	alexyk: Yeah, that will have ramifications. It seems to me that proper named arguments are now possible in the vector arg itself
19:15	chouser	there's not a particularly good way I guess because it's considered an inappropriate question.
19:16	joshua-choi	Well, there's ifn?.
19:16	joshua-choi	I want something like ifn? for sequences for a precondition.
19:17	chouser	a precondition will throw if it fails anyway, right? so why not just use 'seq'?
19:17	joshua-choi	Oh, right
19:17	joshua-choi	Of course
19:22	joshua-choi	Well, actually, I don't want that
19:23	joshua-choi	I'd like specifically an assertion error thrown, like any other precondition. If I just use {:pre #{(seq x)}}, then it won't give as useful of a message
19:24	joshua-choi	But is there really no other way than to do (isa? (type x) clojure.lang.Seqable)?
19:27	chouser	well, seq works on Strings but String is final and doesn't implement Seqable
19:28	chouser	there's a 'seqable?' in contrib somewhere, but it has always struck me as a bit fragile.
19:30	slyphon	wow
19:30	slyphon	the namespace stuff is hairy
19:31	slyphon	i'd love to use something like http://code.google.com/p/clj-nstools/ but my project is using clojure-1.1
19:32	joshua-choi	chouser: I didn't know that String didn't implement Seqable. Although in retrospect that's obvious. clojure.contrib.core/seqable? would be what I want, although its source code does seem to be fragile. I wish there was a better way.
19:54	joshua-choi	Is there a core/contrib function that tests if one integer divides another? Yeah, I know I can just do (zero? (mod x y))...
19:55	programble	(defn divisible [x y] (zero? (mod x y)))
19:56	joshua-choi	programble: Sorry, I meant, "Is there a standard function in clojure.core or .contrib?"
19:57	programble	...
19:57	programble	(defn divisible [x y] (zero? (mod x y)))
20:02	_ato	I doubt it
20:02	ag90	(mod x 0) will kill that one. Need a check for that too.
20:11	alexyk	liebke: is there any clustering in incanter, like k-means?
20:14	defn	liebke: I'm having some issues getting charts to display on Ubuntu 9.10
20:14	liebke	alexyk: not yet
20:14	liebke	defn: what's the error?
20:15	alexyk	kk
20:18	defn	liebke: the window comes up, but it's just empty -- the same code works on OSX
20:20	liebke	defn: hmm, no idea
20:20	defn	very weird
20:21	liebke	true
20:21	defn	sun-awt-x11-XFramePeer is the classname of the window
20:21	defn	I could give you the #<ChartFrame...> in a PM if you'd like
20:28	robink	Do I need to call Java's sin function to caluclate a sine in clojure?
20:48	joshua-choi	I'm wondering: is there a particular reason why there are no def-, defmacro-, defmulti-, or deftype- macros in clojure.core? Is hiding vars looked down upon?
20:59	defn	I'm trying to sort a vector of maps by a key in each map
20:59	slyphon	sort-by ?
21:00	defn	[{:foo 4 :bar 8} {:foo 7 :bar 5}] => (when sorting on :bar) => [{:foo 7 :bar 5}...]
21:01	defn	slyphon: how would i use sort-by there?
21:01	slyphon	(sort-by :bar [{:foo 1 :bar 7} {:foo 2 :bar 3}])
21:01	defn	hmm, i dont think that works on the vector
21:01	slyphon	,(sort-by :bar [{:foo 1 :bar 7} {:foo 2 :bar 3}])
21:01	clojurebot	({:foo 2, :bar 3} {:foo 1, :bar 7})
21:01	defn	huh, nevermind
21:06	defn	thanks slyphon
21:06	slyphon	sure
21:10	robink	OK, so it's in clojure-contrib
21:10	robink	How do I force clojure to include Clojure-contrib's set of functions?
21:10	robink	It's installed in /opt/local/share/clojure/lib, but clojure isn't loading it upon startup.
21:11	robink	/opt/local/share/clojure/lib/clojure.jar is present in that location, but it won't touch other .jars in the same directory.
21:11	slyphon	you have to add them to your classpath?
21:12	robink	slyphon: Tried that.
21:12	slyphon	you have to explicitly require those libraries
21:12	slyphon	import names from them into your namespace
21:12	robink	(ns user (:require [clojure.contrib.generic.math-functions :as generic))?
21:12	lithpr	robink: to answer this, and all subsequent similar questions, you'll need to learn about namespaces (use require refer import)
21:13	lithpr	as you apparently have :)
21:13	robink	Says it can't find clojure/contrib/generic/math_functions__init.class or clojure/contrib/generic/math_functions.clj
21:13	robink	lithpr: I'll learn more about namespaces.
21:15	robink	lithpr: What's a good reference?
21:17	lithpr	uhm, the most concise summary i've found was in labrepl
21:17	robink	lithpr: Thanks
21:18	robink	lithpr: In the labrepl source?
21:19	lithpr	when you start labrepl it uses jetty to serve the lessons from localhost
21:19	robink	lithpr: Ah, OK
21:19	lithpr	so that's a lot of work to get the info
21:19	robink	Indeed
21:20	lithpr	(ns user (:use clojure.contrib.generic.math-functions)) returns without objection in my set up
21:21	robink	lithpr: Doesn't work for me, something's wrong with my setup.
21:21	robink	lithpr: Clojure was very recently added to MacPorts, they may not have everything set up the way it should be.
21:21	lithpr	oic
21:22	robink	Lemme try from Gentoo
21:22	robink	Returns in Gentoo :(
21:23	robink	and the library location is less sane in Gentoo
21:23	lithpr	ubuntu here, so i'm no help with the mac
21:24	robink	I explicitly set CLASSPATH to point to the clojure-contrib.jar and it fails
21:24	lithpr	never realized macs used ports... its bsd though...
21:24	robink	Yeah, essentially
21:25	robink	MacPorts is a "distro" for OSX, it's not really part of the OS.
21:25	robink	I could install Gentoo Prefix (which I may do, if I can't hammer this one out)
21:25	robink	Advantage of MacPorts is that it relies on the system libc so there's less memory usage etc
21:25	robink	Gentoo Prefix pulls the whole userland in
21:26	lithpr	neat
21:26	robink	I s'pose
21:27	lithpr	every single other member of the Pittsburgh clojure meetup had a mac...
21:27	robink	Hah
21:27	robink	I was the only person at the Seajure meeting with a Mac.
21:27	robink	Well, Brian had one, but he didn't take it out IIRC.
21:29	robink	I should've attended the first Seajure meeting.
21:30	robink	There had to have been someone with a mac there.
21:31	lithpr	have you tried using a lein based install?
21:31	defn	woo hoo! pretty graphs in incanter. this is starting to get really fun now :)
21:32	lithpr	defn: yeah, made one yesterday going through the labrepl labs. never played with it before. pretty slick...
21:33	lithpr	also never realized that the letter p is second only to s as the first letter of words in english :)
21:33	defn	hehe
21:34	sattvik	robink: Are you still having the problem with Clojure-contrib?
21:41	lithpr	robink: you might consider using lein & swank clojure. If sets up a clojure and clojure contrib (and whatever) on a per project basis, and handles the classpath issues. never really appreciated the fact that i haven't experienced classpath hell since moving to clojure...
21:47	phren0logy	is anybody else having problems connecting to the swank server that's supposed to be started by LabREPL?
21:47	lithpr	i didn't have a problem with it
21:48	lithpr	are you in the right pwd when you start it?
21:50	lithpr	fyi, in emacs, once you are in the right dir and M-x inferior-lisp, you can subsequently M-x slime-connect, and use it from slime
21:50	lithpr	i know nothing of inferior-lisp mode, but i'm loving the slime-mode buffer/slime-repl clojure combo
21:50	phren0logy	yeah, I start it from the labrepl directory with script/swank (on ox X)
21:50	phren0logy	er, os x
21:51	lithpr	are you getting an error?
21:51	phren0logy	it fires up the web server, but I get an error when I M-x slime-connect
21:51	phren0logy	saying there's nothing on socket 4005
21:51	phren0logy	and I can connect when I fire up swank from incanter
21:52	phren0logy	so I'm not sure what's up
21:53	lithpr	huh. 127.0.0.1/4005 is happy here.
21:53	phren0logy	is there any way to force lein to re-download all the dependencies?
21:54	phren0logy	It starts, and I get the web server and I repl prompt in the terminal, just no swank server
21:54	phren0logy	what platform are you on, and are you using the most recent version of labrepl? One of the updates seems to have broken mine, unless that was just coincidence.
21:55	lithpr	ubuntu 9.10, labrepl as of two days ago.
21:56	lithpr	not sure where i'd find a version number
21:56	phren0logy	Well, I don't want you to break yours, but if you try git pull let me know if it screws up.
21:56	phren0logy	I get: Debugger entered--Lisp error: (file-error "make client process failed" "Connection refused" :name "SLIME Lisp" :buffer nil :host "127.0.0.1" :service 4005)
21:57	phren0logy	To get a version, try "git log" from the labrepl directory
21:57	phren0logy	(if you cloned the git repo)
21:58	lithpr	yeah, i cheated. i just downloaded it as a tar.gz. kinda a hg man...
21:58	phren0logy	the most recent commit's SHA1 starts with db97156, with the commit message "reorg README"
21:58	phren0logy	Ah. Ok, cool. Thanks anyway.
22:00	lithpr	"relevance-labrepl-e978d2e"
22:02	phren0logy	lithpr: OK, cool, that seems to be before a change to the startup script
22:02	phren0logy	I'll roll mine back
22:06	phren0logy	lithpr: That fixed it, thanks.
22:07	phren0logy	I'm sure hg does pretty much the same thing, but "git checkout e978d2e" took me right to it. DVCS is awesome.
22:13	lithpr	no git hatred here, just ignorance.
22:13	lithpr	seems like clojure, like ruby, prefers git, so i'm going to have to improve that situation
22:14	lithpr	the guys on FLOSS weekly seem to be enthusiastic about it too
22:17	phren0logy	lithpr: I really haven't picked a side, it's just that all the cools stuff is on github. At a glance, hg actually seems much more humane and sensible.
22:20	lithpr	phren0logy: is it working for you now?
22:22	phren0logy	lithpr: yes, it's working great
22:23	lithpr	cool
22:24	robink	lithpr: How can I examine the contents of the Java CLASSPATH to see if Java can get at clojure-contrib?
22:24	robink	lithpr: I don't know if this is a problem with Java, MacPorts or somehow my build of Clojure.
22:25	somnium	(System/getProperty "java.class.path")
22:26	robink	somnium: Thanks
22:26	robink	somnium: Can I examine Clojure jars with Java?
22:26	somnium	robink: not sure what you mean
22:27	robink	somnium: Maybe I don't either
22:27	robink	somnium: OK, so the only thing in the CLASSPATH is clojure.jar
22:27	robink	That's a start
22:27	phren0logy	robink: I have been using homebrew, and I installed leiningen with it. It has been working very well for me. Just something to consider if MacPorts is giving you trouble.
22:27	robink	phren0logy: OK, I will
22:28	lithpr	phren0logy: seconded
22:28	robink	phren0logy: Yeah, even when I mention clojure-contrib in the CLASSPATH environment variable, it doesn't show in Java's runtime classpath.
22:29	phren0logy	With leiningen, I haven't had to worry about classpaths nearly as much. Which is great, becuase that always seems to be a headache.
22:29	bb_oz	robink: you could start clojure with -cp
22:31	bb_oz	java -cp $JLINE_JAR:$CLOJURE_JAR:$CLOJURE_CONTRIB_JAR:$MORE_CLASSES jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main
22:32	Mec	Has anyone by chance made a JTree out of nested maps?
22:34	lithpr	Mec, i hope someone gives you a magic link, because i can only think of about a 1000 nifty things to do with that off hand...
22:34	Mec	I know right, I'll deffinitly have to publish it if I dont kill myself first
22:34	lithpr	that would be worth the effort
22:46	Mec	Assuming every key is a node in the tree, how would you represent the leaf key values (if at all)
22:49	lithpr	you'ld essentially need to decide whether the key value only serves to host the structure, or have it do double duty as a label
22:50	lithpr	is my knee-jerk response
22:50	Mec	I was going to have it be label as well, else where would you put the key-label links
22:52	robink	bb_oz: Thanks
22:54	lithpr	well, {:foo [[:label "bar" :other-stuff "baz"] {:biz ...
22:55	lithpr	again, i'm not really thinking deeply here, and it's thought-worthy...
22:56	robink	OK, fixed it, but I have to call clojure from Java per bb_oz' suggestion.
22:56	lithpr	robink: excellent. glad to hear it
22:56	robink	lithpr: I'd still like to just be able to fire up clojure.
22:56	Mec	can you assosciate metadata with just a key inside a map
22:56	robink	Oh, clj is a script
22:56	lithpr	Mec.. ooh, that's nice
22:57	lithpr	keeps it generic
22:57	lithpr	the structure you're modeling with the JTree i mean
22:57	Mec	like {(with-meta :foo {:label "bar" :other-stuff "baz"}) {next-level-of-tree}}
22:58	robink	Is it a bad thing to pull in clojure-contrib every time?
22:58	robink	clj looks in ~/.clojure and adds anything there to the classpath.
22:59	Mec	is it possible to do what i typed?
22:59	lithpr	robink: there are two kinds of people- those that mess with classpaths and those that tool them. I was of the former, and it gave me a lot of advantagesrelative to my peers. I am now the later, and probably worse for it :)
23:00	robink	lithpr: Heh, it seems to me to be better to tool your classpath, but I don't know jack about Java or handling deps in OO languages.
23:01	lithpr	mec, i have not ever actually used metadata, but the usecase for it that rich talked about is exactly the one you have here
23:01	lithpr	like exactly, that is metadata to the structure
23:01	Mec	ya
23:02	Mec	and that why you can even embed your own listeners
23:02	Mec	but can you add meta to a keyword
23:02	lithpr	so i don't know if your code is syntacticly perfect, but conceptually it is definitely spot on
23:02	Mec	and the answer is nope
23:02	Mec	which really sucks
23:03	lithpr	you can add it to a symbol
23:03	lithpr	but not a keyword?
23:03	Mec	can you add it to a symbol or just the value the symbol is representing
23:04	Mec	,(with-meta 'test {:test true})
23:04	clojurebot	test
23:04	Mec	,(meta (with-meta 'test {:test true}))
23:04	clojurebot	{:test true}
23:04	Mec	\
23:04	Mec	,(with-meta :test {:test true})
23:04	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IObj
23:05	brweber2	does anyone know if there is an akka bridge or equivalent erlang style actor library for clojure?
23:06	Mec	so maybe instead of maps, the structure can be vectors with metadata
23:08	robink	Clojure docs have you getting pi via (. Math PI). Is this optimal?
23:08	robink	It seems to be relying on Java. I still haven't figured out Java calls.
23:08	Mec	,Math/PI
23:08	clojurebot	3.141592653589793
23:09	Mec	shorthand for static members
23:09	robink	Mec: Thanks.
23:14	Mec	,#^{:label "Root"} [#^{:label "brach1"} 'leaf?]
23:14	clojurebot	[leaf?]
23:14	Mec	That doesn't look too bad, but what should be used to represent leaf nodes
23:17	slyphon	jeez
23:17	slyphon	the fact that 'defmacro' is a fn just blows my mind
23:18	Mec	a macro is just a function with a macro flag in its metadata
23:21	slyphon	yeah, i mean, it has to be a function, but at some level, that's just more meta than i can easily comprehend
23:22	Mec	most simply a macro is just a function that doesnt evaluate its args
23:32	Mec	I guess it doesnt matter what the leaf node actually is since all we want is it's metadata
23:43	Mec	bah meta cant be applied to string either :x
23:47	Mec	which representation looks better, or is there another I havnt considered? http://gist.github.com/345693
23:49	Mec	,(meta (with-meta (keyword "test") {:test true}))
23:49	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IObj
23:51	somnium	yeah keywords are interned singletons :/, Ive settled on using a wrapper type for strings/numbers for the same problem, though its not very satisfying
23:52	Mec	symbols will work right?
23:52	_ato	yes
23:53	Mec	,(meta (with-meta (symbol "test") {:test true}))
23:53	clojurebot	{:test true}
23:53	Mec	symbols it is
23:54	Mec	http://gist.github.com/345693