#clojure – 2010-03-19

2010-03-19

00:06	zaphar_ps	are there any decent compojure tutorials?
00:56	zaphar_ps	gahhh
00:56	zaphar_ps	compojure out of the box won't work on appengine
01:01	psykotic	i wish that s/concat/cat/
01:02	psykotic	shorter, reminiscent of unix cat, symmetric with mapcat, etc
01:13	bytecoder	zaphar_ps: the change required to make compojure work on app engine is quite simple though.
01:13	zaphar_ps	yeah I don't even have to modify compojure like I thought
01:13	zaphar_ps	just change my use statements
01:14	zaphar_ps	lose a little convenience but gain appengine
01:14	bytecoder	zaphar_ps: that's right.
01:14	zaphar_ps	now that I have a working hello world on appengine I should blog my setup with appengine, leiningen, compojure and emacs
01:15	zaphar_ps	after some sleep
01:15	zaphar_ps	that took longer than I thought it would getting everything setup.
01:16	bytecoder	i followed this blog to setup a helloworld app in appengine: http://elhumidor.blogspot.com/2009/04/clojure-on-google-appengine.html
01:18	hiredman	you know there is a skeleton lein appengine project on github you can checkout and run with
01:18	hiredman	(well, I guess you must not know)
01:34	psykotic	hiredman: did you see my promise-based hack for tying knots with letrec? http://gist.github.com/336461
01:36	hiredman	a generalized letfn often seems like it would be nice
01:38	psykotic	yeah. you always want letrec references to be "guarded" behind a lambda, but often the lambda isn't the whole thing, only a part of something bigger (e.g. a list in the case of my lazy-seq example, or another case might be in a recursive monadic expression)
01:43	psykotic	i came up with this implementation based on the standard way letrec is implemented in terms of let, and the standard implementation of assignable locals in scheme compilers ("assignment conversion", where you explicitly box and unbox when something is the target of a set! call).
01:50	psykotic	gotta love WIFI receivers with an apparent range of 2 meters
02:55	omakase	yo
02:55	Raynes	yoyo
02:56	omakase	how can i get the current unix timestamp?
02:58	bytecoder	,(System/currentTimeMillis)
02:58	clojurebot	1268981981848
02:58	gko	(int (Math/floor (/ (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000)))
02:58	gko	,(int (Math/floor (/ (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000)))
02:58	clojurebot	1268981985
02:58	gko	,(int (Math/floor (/ (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000)))
02:58	clojurebot	1268981994
02:58	omakase	:)
03:01	gko	,(int (/ (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000))
03:01	clojurebot	1268982190
03:12	rfg	,(int (/ (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000))
03:12	clojurebot	1268982814
03:12	zmila	,(int (/ (System/currentTimeMillis) 1000))
03:12	clojurebot	1268982831
03:38	LauJensen	Morning guys
03:42	gko	How to make a "return" in a function ?
03:43	LauJensen	gko, last evaluated expression is always the return
03:43	LauJensen	(defn return-2 [] (println "no return") (+ 1 1))
03:44	gko	LauJensen: I know, I meant if I want to do an early return...
03:44	LauJensen	concept doesnt change if you want branches
03:45	gko	LauJensen: but I want to prevent identation:
03:45	gko	I'd like something like this:
03:46	gko	(if a return-from-function) (if b return-from-function) (if c return-from-function)
03:46	gko	instead of:
03:46	benatkin	When I try running lein deps with the lein-swank plugin in my project.xml, I get a "1 required artifact is missing" message.
03:46	defn	hi all
03:46	benatkin	Do I need to add a path to my repositories?
03:46	benatkin	defn: hi
03:46	gko	(if a nil (if b nil (if c ...))) => this will indent fastly
03:47	defn	maybe a silly question: user> (.getRegion database "207.100.100.1") => #<Region com.maxmind.geoip.Region@66d7a9c9>
03:47	defn	How do I get an actual value?
03:47	gko	(show Region)
03:47	LauJensen	(cond (even? 2) do-this (odd? 5) do-that :else do-something-else)
03:47	LauJensen	Would that work gko ?
03:48	defn	gko: I'm not sure I follow
03:48	LauJensen	defn: C-S-i Region
03:49	LauJensen	That will give you a list of all the methods, one of them will likely be called "getValue" or similar
03:49	LauJensen	oops, C-I ofc
03:49	defn	hm that doesnt work
03:50	LauJensen	Can you be a little more specific ? :)
03:50	defn	C-I I mean
03:50	gko	(use 'clojure.contrib.repl-utils)
03:50	defn	weird, still nothing...
03:50	LauJensen	C-I is bound to the inspector by default, so no need to use extra libraries
03:51	LauJensen	defn, by try (.countryName region) (.countryCode region) etc
03:51	LauJensen	s/by/but
03:55	defn	yeah it's official, i have no idea what I'm doing
03:55	defn	(.getCountry (LocationService. "/path/to/geoip.dat") "1.2.3.4")
03:56	defn	.getCountry is supposed to return an IP address
03:56	defn	ohhhh wait wait
03:57	defn	there we go:
03:57	defn	(.getName (.getCountry (LocationService. "/path/to/geoip.dat") "1.2.3.4"))
03:58	gko	LauJensen: actually, it's more to avoid something like: (if (do-a-and-fail) (return) (if (do-b-and-fail) (return) (if (do-c-and-fail) (return) ...))) that is, the do-b-and-fail must be true to execute do-b-and-fail... oh, unless I change it to (if (do-a) (if (do-b) (if (do-c) (return)) (return)) (return))
03:59	defn	so to use .. with my above code...
03:59	gko	LauJensen: but the point is to avoid the additional indentations, which could be avoided if I could return ..
03:59	benatkin	I figured my problem out. I had my brackets wrong.
04:00	LauJensen	gko: Im not following, my example would behave as you suggest - The indentation concern should be put second to learning functional programming, you seem to be thinking in terms of imperative statements
04:01	LauJensen	defn: (-> (LocationService. "") (.getCountry ""))
04:01	gko	LauJensen: yes, it's about socket stuff, so I can continue only if the previous request succeeded...
04:01	defn	LauJensen: why not ..?
04:01	LauJensen	.. puts dots between the args useful for chained calls, you're not doing a chained call
04:02	LauJensen	~source -?>>
04:02	clojurebot	Huh?
04:02	gko	LauJensen: of course, I could split all this stuff in different functions...
04:02	LauJensen	gko: In contrib, there's a short-circut -?>> which I think you could leverage to good efffect, its like ->> but aborts first time a member returns nil
04:02	Raynes	Oh no.
04:02	Raynes	Not another symbol.
04:02	gko	LauJensen: OK, I'll check. Thanks.
04:02	Raynes	I'm just getting used to -> and ->>
04:02	LauJensen	np
04:03	LauJensen	Raynes: this is the same, just with the nil check added
04:03	Raynes	As a matter of fact, I just updated my irc bot code with it last night.
04:03	Raynes	@_@
04:03	Raynes	~def -?>>
04:03	clojurebot	Huh?
04:03	Raynes	:o
04:03	Raynes	Worth a try.
04:04	gko	what's the clj file ?
04:04	gko	Raynes: what's the clj file for -?>> ?
04:04	Raynes	I have no idea.
04:04	Raynes	Never used it.
04:05	Raynes	core.clj I think.
04:05	LauJensen	no
04:05	LauJensen	Contrib but I forgot where, so grep for it
04:05	Raynes	Or not.
04:05	Raynes	:\
04:06	gko	Oh, OK, it's in clojure.core
04:06	gko	,(doc ->)
04:06	clojurebot	"([x] [x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
04:06	Raynes	No it isn't.
04:06	gko	,(doc ->>)
04:06	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the last item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the last item in second form, etc."
04:06	defn	oh god this is beautiful
04:07	gko	clojure.contrib.core
04:07	defn	disgusting java dung => beautiful, elegant clojure
04:07	Raynes	S'not in core.
04:07	Raynes	Just checked.
04:11	LauJensen	gko: you noticed I said -?>> and not ->> right?
04:16	psykotic	good old maybe monad
04:18	LauJensen	msg chanbot +enforce wordban: monad Monad Monads monads
04:18	LauJensen	oops forgot the /
04:18	LauJensen	:)
04:20	defn	okay so now I need to figure out multimethods I think a bit better so I don't need 10,000 defns to implement all of the java geoip stuff
04:21	LauJensen	defn the ClojureQL backend is the finest example around :)
04:21	defn	i will take a peek
04:24	defn	I must say this is awfully fun watching java turn into clojure in front of my eyes
04:25	psykotic	LauJensen: do you have a github link to the file?
04:26	LauJensen	psykotic: There's more than one file on github nowadays, so can you be more specific?
04:26	psykotic	the clojureql backend example with multimethods :)
04:26	LauJensen	~clojureql
04:26	clojurebot	clojureql is http://gitorious.org/clojureql
04:26	psykotic	ah, wrong site, that explains it :)
04:27	LauJensen	Yea, we liked the simplicity and didn't have the patience to wait for Github to resolve their responsetimes
04:27	LauJensen	clojurebot: forget clojureql
04:27	clojurebot	clojureql is http://gitorious.org/clojureql
04:28	LauJensen	clojurebot: clojureql is http://gitorious.org/clojureql and tracked @ http://clojureql.lighthouseapp.com/
04:28	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
04:28	LauJensen	~clojureql
04:28	clojurebot	clojureql is http://gitorious.org/clojureql
04:28	gko	LauJensen: yes. I'll look for it. Thanks.
04:28	LauJensen	~forget clojureql
04:28	clojurebot	clojureql is http://gitorious.org/clojureql
04:28	defn	omg i need to quit using clojure or I will never use another language again
04:28	defn	i am giddy right now this is so fun
04:34	psykotic	LauJensen: nice, i read the code. i like the 'operator hierarchy' for joins, etc
04:35	psykotic	it would be nice if you could say (derive [::Join ::LeftJoin ... ::FullJoin] ::Join] to cut down on repetition. good thing we have macros :)
04:35	LauJensen	Turns out that once you get the structure in your head, its quite easy to work with. Its a concern though, that right now the entire structure takes too long up commit mentally, so things are being restructured and moved around before we declare it 1.0
04:37	Raynes	How does Gitorious compare to github? Only thing I've ever heard people say about it is "But, it's Open Source and Github isn't."
04:38	psykotic	github is so superior to everything else out there right now that i find it hard to consider switching
04:38	psykotic	i'm paying them the monthly fee even if i don't use the extra features, just because of how much i like what they're doing
04:38	Raynes	I'm not considering it. Everything I have is on github.
04:38	LauJensen	Raynes: The main pull was speed and the fact that they aim to be more community centered - Im not sure they achieved that goal though
04:39	LauJensen	Oh - And we had planned on embedding documentation directly in the source container. Github used different mark-ups in different places, Gitorious was uniform
04:39	Raynes	You forgot something.
04:39	Raynes	"AND IT'S OPEN SOURCE!!1!"
04:39	psykotic	Raynes: that actually IS useful if you want to deploy a gitorious thing internally at a company
04:40	Raynes	Most people don't look at the practicality of such a thing.
04:40	eintr	psykotic: true. github:fi isn't viable if you're < 100 devs or so
04:40	psykotic	one issue with DVCS at large companies is that you need to superimpose some 'discovery/exploration' infrastructure that a centralized VCS provides
04:41	psykotic	and something like gitorious could fit that bill
04:42	Raynes	Well, on an unrelated note, I has Chedder Jalapeño Crunchy Cheetos. Envy me.
04:42	psykotic	on an unrelated note, i feel like the star of one of those DDT infomercials from the 60s where children are paying in dense DDT fog
04:42	psykotic	*playing
04:42	Raynes	:o
04:43	Raynes	LauJensen: How do you pronounce your first name?
04:43	LauJensen	I dont know
04:43	LauJensen	...how to put it in writing :)
04:43	psykotic	it's Jen as in the Japanese Yen
04:43	Raynes	First name, not last.
04:43	LauJensen	Not my first name
04:44	LauJensen	Raynes: like you would lay Loud, but without the d
04:44	psykotic	it's close but not exactly the same as 'Lao' in 'Laos'
04:44	psykotic	or loud, yeah
04:44	Raynes	Oh.
04:44	Raynes	I pronounced it as 'La'.
04:44	psykotic	when i moved to the us, i told people to pronounce my name as in 'pair'
04:44	LauJensen	Which is wrong
04:45	psykotic	because they couldn't even come close to the real pronunciation. so now i just introduce myself as 'pair'.
04:46	psykotic	i think even in denmark, the pronunciation of 'Lau' will vary a bit depending on whether you're a farmer from western jutland or from copenhagen :)
04:48	LauJensen	Not too much - When I present myself, once in a while some kind secretary will ask "Is the L A V", to which I respond "No, then I would be called Lav (low)".
04:48	LauJensen	But it is more common in China than in Denmark I'll give you that
04:50	psykotic	btw speaking of github, i just found out that their search feature can also search code, a la codesearch.google.com
04:50	psykotic	i remember someone was writing a log searcher for #clojure to find usage examples of functions. either github's search or codesearch.google.com would also be good for that.
04:50	Raynes	You're just finding that out? ;o
04:50	Raynes	I'm about to do a codesearch for the word 'penis'. That's right.
04:50	psykotic	yes, i never thought to try it before
04:51	psykotic	i don't think github does regexp searches like codesearch, though
04:51	Raynes	Whereas most programmers use 'foo' 'bar' and 'baz', I use genitalia. :D
04:52	Raynes	It keeps things interesting on my side, especially when I have to pastebin code.
04:53	Raynes	"epenis.py ... class epenis(loadable)"
04:53	Raynes	Alrighty then.
04:54	SynrG	win 2
04:54	SynrG	sure
05:03	LauJensen	What I really like about #Clojure, is that it has consistently held to a high standard for conversation. I would be sorry to see that go Raynes.
05:04	Raynes	Well, at 4:00am...
05:04	psykotic	maybe #clojure-bullshit is called for :)
05:04	Raynes	There was nothing to disrupt or discuss in this particular situation, so I think we can let it slide.
05:04	Raynes	psykotic: I tried that about a year ago. Didn't stick.
05:08	LauJensen	Raynes: You see what Im saying though right?
05:08	Raynes	Absolutely, and I wouldn't purposely disrupt the room for the sole purpose of being an idiot.
05:08	LauJensen	And btw, you should be sleeping now - If you want to be up at this hour you should move to Denmark
05:08	Raynes	I woke up at 1:00am.
05:08	LauJensen	Raynes: You see what Im saying though right?
05:09	Raynes	#haskell has three times as many users as #clojure, and I've never seen the high-standard of discussion really break, despite brief off-topic chatter that usually spills over into #haskell-blah.
05:10	Raynes	#clojure just doesn't have enough users for it's own active off-topic channel at this point.
05:10	Raynes	But soon. Oh yes, very soon.
05:12	psykotic	Raynes: i just registered #clojure-casual. we can be a community of two :)
05:13	Raynes	Joy!
05:13	Raynes	Now we need to get somebody to put it in the channel topic, and we might get somewhere.
05:23	patrkris	psykotic: shouldn't it be #clojure-cajual?
05:23	Raynes	Clever.
05:24	psykotic	i think even by my pun-happy standards, that's a bit much
05:24	Raynes	Agreed.
05:24	patrkris	:)
06:08	LauJensen	wow psykotic: deporting Raynes really did the trick, peace and quiet is restored
06:08	Raynes	;)
06:09	psykotic	we're having so much fun over there with you, Lau. you killjoy :)
06:09	psykotic	withOUT you, even :)
06:17	psykotic	how do i test whether something is an instance of a deftype type? i've tried (instance? mytype (mytype 42)) and that doesn't work--mytype is the constructor function for the type, not the java.lang.Class itself.
06:18	LauJensen	isa?
06:18	psykotic	isa? checks relationship between classes by default, not instances and their class
06:19	psykotic	i think instance? is what i want, the problem is how i get to the type behind a 'deftype' rather than the constructor function
06:19	psykotic	ah damn, i looked at the deftype code and they use a gensym for the generated type
06:19	psykotic	that is.. useless.
06:20	spariev_	have you tried type ?
06:20	spariev_	,(doc type)
06:20	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns the :type metadata of x, or its Class if none"
06:20	psykotic	doesn't work
06:21	psykotic	it gives you the type of the constructor function.
06:21	psykotic	(a generated class that implements IFn)
06:21	psykotic	here's what the relevant code looks like:
06:22	psykotic	~(emit-deftype* name gname (vec hinted-fields) (vec interfaces) methods)
06:22	psykotic	the gname is a generated (gensymmed) name
06:22	psykotic	so the type isn't directly accessible
06:27	Raynes	,(clojure.contrib.duck-streams/slurp* "https://sourceforge.net")
06:27	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.duck-streams
06:27	Raynes	,(clojure.contrib.io/slurp* "https://sourceforge.net")
06:27	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.io
06:27	Raynes	I thought he could access contrib? :o
06:40	psykotic	btw, for my hack all you need is to add the following in deftype's `(do ...) block:
06:40	psykotic	(defn ~(symbol (str name "?")) [~'x]
06:40	psykotic	(instance? ~classname ~'x))
06:41	psykotic	(deftype foo [bar]), (foo? 42) => false, (foo? (foo 42)) => true
06:43	Chousuke	there's no need to use ~'x, just use a gensym
06:47	psykotic	i hate needless gensyms
06:47	psykotic	no need to make macro expansions needlessly unreadable
06:49	psykotic	okay, 'hate' is a bit strong :)
07:16	haptiK	test
07:16	Raynes	~def test
07:16	Raynes	:p
07:33	SynrG	zmila: welcome, classmate :)
07:33	Raynes	What he said.
08:54	defn	hello all
08:54	defn	What's the best way to chunk a large file of text, say 350MB worth?
08:55	defn	It is a logfile, so by line is best, but what I'm wondering is if anyone has any suggestions for re-writing alex osborne's widefinder2 'chunk-file' in pure clojure, with no Java
08:55	defn	or at least, less Java, more clojure
08:55	defn	see http://meshy.org/code/wf2-faster.clj
08:56	AWizzArd	defn: what is bad about a split by line?
08:56	AWizzArd	I developed a split-by-regex, but this is unfortunately closed source.
08:56	defn	AWizzArd: nothing in particular I guess, just trying to learn
08:57	defn	ive never worked with data sets as large as 300MB before, which to some probably seems so minor and simple, but I am trying to learn when it is appropriate to split a file into chunks, how many chunks to split it into, etc.
09:01	defn	optimization does not come first!
09:04	spariev_	defn: here's how I parsed Rails log files, partitioning by request - http://gist.github.com/337484
09:05	clowbar	AWizzArd: Is that lib in clojure, or JAVA you wrote that is closed source??
09:05	spariev_	nothing fancy, just line-seq & partition-by
09:09	licoresse	I am not getting this to work, component count is always showing 0, what am I doing wrong? http://paste.lisp.org/display/96610
09:11	licoresse	I suspect I am doing something wrong in the constructor
09:17	defn	spariev_: pretty cool
09:18	defn	how quick is it?
09:20	spariev_	haven't measured, actually, my main bottlenecks with this code was in actual log processing, not io
09:20	spariev_	s/was/were
09:20	defn	yeah i would imagine
09:20	spariev_	it could be sped up by using pmap, though :)
09:21	defn	id be happy if i could do a 300MB log in...oh...20 seconds?
09:22	powr-toc	Does anyone know how to stop a server with ring?
09:22	licoresse	can I override the constructor in a proxy?
09:22	licoresse	cannot find examples of this
09:22	powr-toc	I've called run-jetty, but I'd like to restart it
09:39	Raynes	technomancy: ping
09:41	spariev_	licoresse: I believe you can override only interface/class method's in proxy, not constructors
09:41	spariev_	s/method's/methods
09:42	LauJensen	I just got banned - in the sense that I could just log in straight after
09:42	licoresse	spariev_: ok, then the only other option is gen-class
09:43	Raynes	I'm getting this: Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/def__init.class or clojure/contrib/def.clj on classpath: (core.clj:1), whereas it works in lein repl. :\|
09:43	Raynes	Clojure-contrib /is/ on the classpath. :\
09:43	Raynes	Apparently, clj-time is asking for it, but can't find it.
09:45	Raynes	What's weird is that I can do the same thing in lein repl and it works. Makes me wonder if I'm not setting up the classpath right.
09:45	Raynes	java -cp src:lib/* clojure.main src/sexpbot/core.clj
09:45	Raynes	I'm not sure if lein repl is doing something special, but it appears so.
09:48	LauJensen	Raynes: You know that you can check the cp at runtime right?
09:48	Raynes	LauJensen: That's exactly what I'm doing.
09:48	Raynes	And contrib is there.
09:48	licoresse	spariev_: thanks for the input, case solved!!
09:49	spariev_	licoresse: np, glad I helped :)
09:51	Raynes	Looks like something is wrong with my contrib jar. Isn't opening up right in Emacs.
09:51	Raynes	Looks corrupted.
09:51	Raynes	I'll delete it.
09:56	LauJensen	If you hand-compile, make sure you link to clojure.jar
09:57	defn	I have a list: ("nil" "nil" "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil)
09:58	defn	err the first two nils not in quotes
09:58	defn	but basically I want to count occurrences of a string in a map, where the count is the value and the key is the string
09:58	clojurebot	maps are AWESOME
09:59	defn	my question is, what is an efficient way of turning the above list into such a map?
09:59	chouser	so awesome that two completely different things are named "map"
09:59	Chousuke	hm
09:59	Chousuke	I think there's something in contrib to do just that.
09:59	chouser	so awesome that two completely different things are named "map"
10:02	defn	Chousuke: if you know or find it let me know, im hunting ATM
10:06	Chousuke	If we had fnil, (reduce (fn [m val] (update-in m [v] (fnil inc 1))) (remove nil? seq))
10:06	defn	Chousuke: id like to count nils as well
10:06	defn	is it possible to have nil as a key
10:07	chouser	yes
10:07	defn	,{nil 4}
10:07	clojurebot	{nil 4}
10:07	defn	cool
10:07	zmila	,(reduce
10:07	clojurebot	EOF while reading
10:07	zmila	(fn [acc-map item] (assoc acc-map item (inc (get acc-map item 0))))
10:07	zmila	{}
10:07	zmila	'(nil nil "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil))
10:07	Chousuke	ah, well, then you need to remove nils
10:07	zmila	(reduce (fn [acc-map item] (assoc acc-map item (inc (get acc-map item 0)))) {} '(nil nil "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil))
10:07	zmila	,(reduce (fn [acc-map item] (assoc acc-map item (inc (get acc-map item 0)))) {} '(nil nil "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil))
10:07	clojurebot	{"c" 4, "b" 4, "a" 2, nil 3}
10:08	defn	zmila: cool
10:08	fogus	,(apply merge-with + (for [x '(nil nil "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil)] {x 1}))
10:08	clojurebot	{"c" 4, "b" 4, "a" 2, nil 3}
10:08	LauJensen	hasn't that been sugared zmila ?
10:08	LauJensen	,(reduce (fn [acc-map item] (assoc acc-map item (inc (acc-map item 0)))) {} '(nil nil "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil))
10:08	clojurebot	{"c" 4, "b" 4, "a" 2, nil 3}
10:08	LauJensen	yup
10:09	Chousuke	I wonder why fnil hasn't been introduced to core yet :/
10:09	LauJensen	because its redundant
10:09	Chousuke	heh, argue & escape :P
10:09	Chousuke	I don't see how it's redundant though. :/
10:09	fogus	,(reduce #(assoc %1 %2 (inc (%1 %2 0))) {} '(nil nil "a" "b" "b" "a" "b" "c" "c" "c" "c" "b" nil))
10:09	clojurebot	{"c" 4, "b" 4, "a" 2, nil 3}
10:12	zmila	i need this function for ProjectEuler75 :)
10:13	defn	Java Heap Space
10:13	defn	:(
10:13	defn	maybe atoms are in order
10:14	Raynes	For the public record, the problem was indeed that my clojure-contrib jar was corrupted.
10:17	Chousuke	defn: if you're running out of space, use the reduce approach, but with a transient instead
10:17	defn	oo!
10:20	spariev_	is there something like Java's entrySet() for clojure maps ?
10:20	Chousuke	,(.entrySet '{a 1})
10:20	clojurebot	#< [[a 1]]>
10:21	rhickey	spariev_: is your objective to get key/value entries or the set lookup capability?
10:21	zmila	spariev_ (seq your-map) - is like iterator, then use param destruction (fn [ [key value] ] ...)
10:21	spariev_	thanks, zmila, just need to get k/v entries to iterate
10:22	Chousuke	the general rule of thumb in clojure is that if you need to iterate over something, call seq on it :P
10:22	zmila	ok, spariev_, but remember to prefer existing seq-functions over iteration :)
10:22	spariev_	hehe, I'll try :)
10:24	defn	rhickey: what do you mean by set lookup capability?
10:28	rhickey	defn: being able to lookup map entries in the resulting set
10:31	defn	ah, i asked this question originally, and the former is what I'm looking for. I can't speak for spariev_
10:32	rhickey	(.contains (.entrySet {:a 1 :b 2}) (clojure.lang.MapEntry. :b 2))
10:32	rhickey	,(.contains (.entrySet {:a 1 :b 2}) (clojure.lang.MapEntry. :b 2))
10:32	clojurebot	true
10:33	defn	rhickey: ah-ha. thank you much.
10:33	Raynes	,(apply hash-map [:key "v" :key2 "v2"])
10:33	clojurebot	{:key "v", :key2 "v2"}
10:37	spariev_	defn: btw, have you managed to setup circumspec ?
10:38	defn	spariev_: stuart halloway msg'd me back on github this morning
10:38	defn	he gave some hints
10:38	defn	i will take a whack at it later tonight
10:40	defn	spariev_: it is such a weird feeling to be corresponding with your heroes. i remember receiving a letter back from noam chomsky once upon a time and being amazed he wrote back.
10:41	spariev_	defn: :)
10:41	defn	im still amazed every time i get a reply from someone with a prolific "commit" or "create" schedule.
10:42	defn	stuart h wrote a book, wrote a bunch of fantastic code, and managed to write me back within 24 hours. I can barely manage a single one of those 3 items.
10:42	defn	tec*nomancy is another example. that guys is absolutely prolific, and yet he hops on IRC and talks to me for 15 minute here and there about some silly problem I'm having.
10:43	defn	guy is*
10:50	spariev_	defn: Clojure community is amazingly awesome, and it's a well known fact :)
10:51	defn	spariev_: yeah i have had absolutely 0 bad experiences with the community thus far
10:51	defn	and very receptive, creative, intelligent community
10:52	The-Kenny	That's my experience too
10:53	The-Kenny	And I try to be a part of this community :)
11:11	defn	<3
11:11	AWizzArd	clowbar: I wrote this in Clojure.
11:13	AWizzArd	I had a file that contained several "rows" of data. But each data set did not sit in one line of the text file. Instead it had other complex markers that told me where one data line ends. And as I wanted to process each data set on its own I wrote a split-by-regex fn that returns a lazy sequence of "lines" or "rows" of data.
11:28	remleduff	technomancy: I've been working on writing lein repl in clojure, and have got it working, with one small issue. I either need to make the bat file not use -Xbootclasspath, or I need to use a custom class loader that doesn't delegate to the parent for classes that start with "clojure."
11:28	remleduff	If you want to take a look: http://github.com/remleduff/leiningen/blob/master/src/leiningen/repl.clj
11:28	remleduff	The version I did using a custom classLoader is still at home on my harddrive
11:32	remleduff	The problem with -Xbootclasspath is that it makes leiningen's version of clojure override the project's version of clojure unless I play more ClassLoader games.
11:38	psykotic	i wish juxt with one argument would treat it as a list of functions to apply. that's a common enough pattern that avoids 'apply' and i don't see when juxt with a single function argument would be very useful.
11:38	chouser	rhickey: I can't supply my own 'meta' implementation for a reify. Is this intentional?
11:38	rhickey	chouser: you are making something mutable?
11:39	chouser	no sir!
11:39	Raynes	,x
11:39	clojurebot	1
11:39	rhickey	then what's the use case?
11:39	Raynes	Eh,.
11:39	Raynes	,rgerer
11:39	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: rgerer in this context
11:40	Raynes	Thank you.
11:41	chouser	rhickey: One use case is an implementation of IPersistentVector and I just want to be able to attach some metadata.
11:41	chouser	I don't even need to "modify" it in this case -- providing the meta when the object is created is sufficient.
11:42	chouser	I've been making do with my own IMeta-like protocol, but now I've run into a case where I'd like to be able to provide a real vector (from a literal) and want to specify the same kind of metadata on that.
11:43	rhickey	looking...
11:58	rhickey	aargh - could someone please fix it so that all test errors aren't reported at: test_clojure.clj:77 ?
12:12	rhickey	chouser: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/commit/67864eb0d91867ff03b87d6874be28f1476d27df
12:13	chouser	oh sweet -- so I don't even have to implement meta myself
12:14	rhickey	the implementation was already there, that's why you got the dupe error, but there was no path to set the metadata and IObj wasn't an implicit super
12:14	rhickey	so now it works like fn metadata
12:15	chouser	excellent, I'll try it out right away
12:15	Raynes	How would one write a function that takes a function that times out after so many seconds? :\
12:16	chouser	Raynes: there's not a universally correct way to stop a running thread in the JVM
12:17	chouser	Raynes: there's something that sorta works but may leave locks in a bad state, among other problems.
12:18	chouser	unless the function is taking so long doing IO stuff and not just computation
12:18	chouser	I think
12:18	Raynes	I'm want something like clojurebot's evaluation timeout.
12:18	Raynes	I'm doing the same thing.
12:19	chouser	ah. I'd actually recommend doing that kind of thing in a separate process entirely.
12:19	arohner	are there any clojure wrappers for working with S3?
12:19	chouser	send forms over to it -- if you don't hear back soon enough, kill off the whole process and start a new one for next time.
12:19	Raynes	Eh.
12:20	chouser	yeah, hiredman didn't like my suggestion either. :-)
12:20	Raynes	Just seems like too much work.
12:21	dakrone	arohner: check out jclouds
12:22	arohner	dakrone: thanks
12:22	dakrone	you're welcome
12:23	Raynes	chouser: It appears Chousuke wrote some sort of timeout function using FutureTask.
12:23	Raynes	And it appears that hiredman used that.
12:25	chouser	hm, interesting! .Future/cancel doesn't seem to have the kind of warnings that .Thread/stop does.
12:25	Raynes	I think I'll snatch this function.
12:27	chouser	Raynes: you may just be able to use 'future'
12:27	rhickey	chouser: that's because it uses the interruption mechanism to politely coordinate
12:27	Raynes	I figured that too, but I'm not sure how.
12:28	Raynes	I guess I'm just not smart enough to piece things together. ;)
12:28	esj	rhickey: +1 on Van Roy and Haridi on your Amazon list. It tremendous.
12:28	chouser	,(let [f (future (Thread/sleep 10000))] (.cancel f true) (.isCancelled f))true
12:28	clojurebot	true
12:29	chouser	heh
12:29	chouser	(let [f (future (Thread/sleep 10000))] (.cancel f true) (.isCancelled f))
12:29	chouser	blah
12:29	chouser	,(let [f (future (Thread/sleep 10000))] (.cancel f true) (.isCancelled f))
12:29	clojurebot	true
12:32	rhickey	chouser: but all of those things are independent of the thread itself - try with (future (loop [] (recur))) and watch your CPU
12:33	rhickey	Thread/sleep may be interruptable
12:33	rhickey	.cancel will not kill the thread
12:33	chouser	ah, indeed. so not sufficient for some kinds of sandboxing
12:34	rhickey	the interruption system will work for most blocking actions though
12:35	chouser	sounds like the pragmatic studio was a hit
12:42	Raynes	http://gist.github.com/337795
12:43	chouser	Raynes: you saw that busy loops won't be stopped?
12:45	Raynes	No, I didn't -.-
12:47	chouser	that's what rhickey was saying -- most blocking actions will be interrupted (locks, IO, etc.)
12:47	chouser	but a flat-out busy computation loop will just keep right on going. (loop [] (recur)) and (last (iterate inc 0)) for example
12:51	hiredman	hmmm
12:52	Raynes	Then, I suppose I'll be stealing that function after all.
12:52	Raynes	I'd rather not think about this particular task. :>
12:53	chouser	I don't think there's a way around this within a single JVM. Either some operations will not be stoppable, or you may leave locks in a bad state.
12:53	hiredman	,(loop [] (recur)) ;this will timeout using .cancel on FutureTask
12:53	esj	elephant guns are dangerous
12:53	Raynes	Indeed.
12:53	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
12:53	chouser	hiredman: it's not still cranking away?
12:54	Raynes	It's (.stop ..)ing the thread.
12:54	hiredman	it sure ain't
12:54	Raynes	http://gist.github.com/337804
12:54	chouser	oh, which is the dangerous one.
12:54	hiredman	oh, right
12:54	hiredman	it does both
12:54	chouser	heh
12:55	Raynes	I'll go with dangerous. :>
12:56	chouser	that's what my add-break-thread! does too. :-/
13:00	hiredman	you could write a fn that wraps starting up a new jvm and manages it, then making an infinite seq of calls to that function and use seque to keep a few jvms on hot standby
13:02	hiredman	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Process.html#destroy() I do like the sound of that
13:03	drewr	is passing a bunch of args to str a no-no that I'm forgetting about?
13:03	drewr	I thought StringBuilder was easy on the heap
13:03	hiredman	it should be
13:04	drewr	I must be retaining a head somewhere and it happens to bomb out on an (apply str ...)
13:05	drewr	because 99% of the time the stacktrace includes that
13:05	lpetit	off topic: any sh scripting power user here ?
13:07	drewr	lpetit: try us
13:07	hiredman	drewr: str looks like it was written to avoid head holding
13:08	chouser	does anyone here use polyglot maven for real?
13:08	lpetit	the unzip command returns 1 when warnings are emitted. I want to somehow "encapsulate it" with the appropriate code to return 0 if 1 is returned, or else $?
13:09	lpetit	I've tried several things without success for the last 30 minutes, arrgh
13:09	drewr	hiredman: I agree
13:13	lpetit	drewr: so I tried you :-)
13:16	drewr	lpetit: http://gist.github.com/337856
13:19	lpetit	drewr: I have this code: cmd1 && unzip file && cmd2 . How do I transform it so that it continues with cmd2 even if unzip file returns 1. That's the (better formulated) question
13:20	chouser	only if unzip returns 1, right? other errors should fail?
13:21	lpetit	drewr: I tried a lot of permutations of cmd1 && (unzip file; if [ $? -eq 1 ]; then; return 0; else; return $?;) && cmd2 (with {} () w/o ; etc .
13:21	lpetit	chouser: yes, 1 should be treated like 0; only special case
13:21	drewr	lpetit: try exit instead of return there
13:21	drewr	your () is a subshell, not a function
13:22	chouser	cmd1; if [ "$?" = 1 ]; then cmd2; fi # this seems to work, though the error code doesn't come through
13:22	chouser	I can't get exit $? to work
13:22	lpetit	I also tried exit :-( . But since there are a lot of permutations, I think I just can't get everything right at the same time
13:22	drewr	hm
13:24	lpetit	best I came up with: lpetit@lpetit-desktop:~/projets/missManners/tmp$ (unzip -qo project.zip ; if [$? -eq 1] then; exit 0 else; exit $? fi) && echo "hello"
13:24	lpetit	bash: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
13:24	lpetit	lpetit@lpetit-desktop:~/projets/missManners/tmp$
13:24	chouser	you need exit $?; note the semicolon. But as I said, I can't get that to work
13:24	chouser	a literal number like exit 10; works
13:25	drewr	lpetit: your if statements need to be: if [...]; then ...; fi
13:25	drewr	i.e., move the semicolon before the then
13:25	chouser	ah, got it
13:26	chouser	(unzip ; v="$?"; if [ "$?" = 1 ]; then echo "keep on swimming"; else exit $v; fi )
13:31	lpetit	chouser: yes, with this it's better indeed: (unzip -qo project.zip; v="$?"; if [ $v = "1" ]; then exit 0; else exit $v; fi )
13:32	lpetit	chouser, drewr: many thanks !
13:40	rhickey	prag studio was fun
13:48	rhickey	Constantine Vetoshev presented dgraph at ClojureNYC last night - looks like fun: http://github.com/gcv/dgraph
14:08	chouser	looks very clean
14:12	konr	What difficulties will I face programming with Common Lisp? Do you thing these things can be learned on-the-fly? I was proposed working in a big project on CL, but I'm a little afraid of committing, considering that the payment per hour is 4 times what I charge
14:20	clowbar	Is there a clojure lib that would be similar to a cron?
14:22	hiredman	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/blob/master/src/hiredman/schedule.clj
14:33	zaphar_ps	konr: your afraid to do it because the pay is too high? that seems a little weird.
14:34	zaphar_ps	getting paid to expand your horizons sounds like a dream come true to me
14:42	KirinDave	konr: If you're new to CL your code is going to be much worse than a CL's regular. CL has an incredibly long learning curve with lots of gradations.
14:43	KirinDave	konr: You're professional caliber if you can read Let Over Lambda and have fewer questions than when you started.
14:43	chouser	heh
14:43	clowbar	Damn it it seems all the good libs have been written. :p
14:44	chouser	isn't that a good thing?
14:44	KirinDave	chouser: I guess you'll have to take solace that you're an expert in clojure. :)
14:44	clowbar	Although as nice as pircbot lib is I wonder if a clojure version would be worth the work.
14:44	chouser	ooh, I am? Cool.
14:44	KirinDave	chouser: The community here seems much less infatuated with things like macros than the CL community.
14:45	KirinDave	chouser: You're not? Your imposter syndrome is taking over.
14:45	KirinDave	Crowb4r: I don't see any clojure bindings and utils for nailgun.
14:45	KirinDave	Crowb4r: So there is that to write.
14:45	hiredman	clowbar: I want a pircbot like lib for xmpp
14:46	chouser	huh! "imposter syndrome" is interesting...
14:46	Crowb4r	hiredman: Hmm, that would be nice. I was thinking an AIM lib would be nice, but thank you AOL for making OSCAR needlessly complex.
14:46	hiredman	it be really nice
14:46	hiredman	it would be
14:47	bozhidar	KirinDave: CL devs are hardcore lispers and many Clojure users(like me) are with extensive Java background
14:47	hiredman	I don't want to have to deal with smack
14:47	bozhidar	but even I enjoy macros a lot ;-)
14:47	KirinDave	bozhidar: I mean, for example...
14:47	Crowb4r	I'm just trying to get involved with developing clojure and contributing some libs seems liek a good place to start.
14:48	KirinDave	People in Clojure are uncomfortable with adding a type? function as an implicit definition of (deftype ...)
14:48	KirinDave	Crowb4r: Nailgun. Please.
14:48	technomancy	KirinDave: what are you trying to do that's not already easy through standard java interop?
14:48	KirinDave	bozhidar: Whereas in CL it'd be like a dozen things.
14:48	technomancy	genuinely curious
14:49	KirinDave	technomancy: I think it'd be better if there was just a form, sorta like the command line interface, to let you make a nailgun interface for your app
14:49	Crowb4r	KirinDave: That would require me to be better with nailgun.
14:49	KirinDave	technomancy: Just define some commands in a form (nailgun-server commands (cmd-name (fn (args) ...))
14:49	technomancy	oh yeah; I've been using it mostly for straight-up repls so far
14:49	KirinDave	Crowb4r: Probably not.
14:49	technomancy	I guess invoking arbitrary commands could certainly be easier
14:49	KirinDave	technomancy: Well a one-liner invocation for repl spawning would be rad too
14:50	technomancy	KirinDave: ng clojure.main, I think
14:50	Crowb4r	Actually my background is not in JAVA, it's in C/#, Python and a little bit of CL.
14:50	technomancy	throw in an rlwrap for good measure
14:50	KirinDave	technomancy: But it'd be nice to be able to say "start a repl in THIS name space"
14:50	KirinDave	Crowb4r: The nailgun interface is very easy. That's why i suggested it.
14:51	KirinDave	Crowb4r: It's mostly macro-ology and some java interop for a better nailgun binding.
14:51	KirinDave	I've been considering doing it myself since i have so much free time right now
14:51	KirinDave	My house is flooded and so my wife, dogs and I are in a tiny boring hotel room.
14:51	KirinDave	And we can't leave the dogs alone, so we can't go anywhere or do anything. :(
14:52	KirinDave	technomancy: Do you agree there'd be value in some macro building for nailgun?
14:52	KirinDave	I mean, a 1line repl server would be great too.
14:52	Crowb4r	KirinDave: I will look into it. I think that would be good. I'm aiming to get decent enough with clojure to land a job in it.
14:52	technomancy	KirinDave: yeah, I'm wondering if you could integrate with it in a way that wouldn't require AOT
14:52	KirinDave	technomancy: Deftype might let that happen.
14:52	technomancy	I'm not sure whether the new 1.2 features would allow that, but if they did it would be a big win
14:53	technomancy	as long as it's not called clj-nailgun
14:53	KirinDave	technomancy: But
14:53	technomancy	let's raise the bar for project names, please. =)
14:53	Crowb4r	Trying to move from hobbiest to pro in essence.
14:53	KirinDave	technomancy: Also, running a nailgun server in your long-running app. I've seen where people can do things like dump logs and synch dbs from the command line on long running apps.
14:53	KirinDave	technomancy: The AOT isn't a problem there.
14:54	Crowb4r	technomancy: I will keep that in mind. clj-* seems like it's going to get to be overpopulated with libs soon.
14:54	technomancy	yeah, no-AOT just makes getting started easier.
14:54	Crowb4r	brb
14:54	technomancy	KirinDave: people use swank for that now, but having a client in C is preferrable
14:55	Crowb4r	wow, nailgun libs would be nice
14:56	technomancy	Crowb4r: it's always hard to find a good starting project, but I think that would be a good one.
14:56	sh10151	does anyone have any nice wrappers around XPath and XSLT evaluation for clojure?
14:58	Crowb4r	We are a nailgun wrapper I assume.
14:59	Crowb4r	we are talking*
14:59	remleduff	technomancy: Did you see what I had directed to you earlier about lein repl? Should have /msg'ed you
14:59	technomancy	remleduff: I didn't see it; I was disconnected when I switched networks.
15:00	remleduff	I've been working on writing lein repl in clojure, and have got it working, with one small issue. I either need to make the bat file not use -Xbootclasspath, or I need to use a custom class loader that doesn't delegate to the parent for classes that start with "clojure."
15:00	remleduff	If you want to take a look: http://github.com/remleduff/leiningen/blob/master/src/leiningen/repl.clj The version I did using a custom classLoader is still at home on my harddrive.
15:01	remleduff	The problem with -Xbootclasspath is that it makes leiningen's version of clojure override the project's version of clojure unless I play ClassLoader games.
15:01	remleduff	So I was thinking about the best way to approach it, the custom classloader is a little icky, but the alternative is to do more work in the shellscript to avoid using bootclasspath if a parameter is given or some project setting is given or if the shell script notices the clojure versions don't match.
15:02	remleduff	Sorry for the wall of text
15:02	Crowb4r	meh
15:04	technomancy	remleduff: sorry, missing some context here... are you saying you tried with eval-in-project, and the bootclassloader took precedence there too?
15:05	remleduff	Well, eval-in-project forks a new VM if it sees -Xbootclassloader, right?
15:06	technomancy	no, only on OS X or in cases of native dependencies
15:07	bozhidar	technomancy: is not normal for one to get a lot of compile warnings and a couple of warnings when installing swank-clojure from ELPA
15:07	bozhidar	one time something went so wrong that it crashed my Emacs...
15:07	technomancy	bozhidar: those are normal; they don't affect usage
15:07	technomancy	just means it didn't get byte-compiled
15:07	technomancy	uhh... ok, that's not normal. ={
15:07	bozhidar	yes, I know that
15:08	Crowb4r	technomancy: I know this sounds stupid, but with a nailgun lib Is there a format to it you could reccommend. An example of the way a good lib is structured would be nice. I would love to avoid making it look like a hack job. :p
15:08	bozhidar	I just wondered if they were normal
15:08	technomancy	bozhidar: if you can reproduce reliably please open an issue on my package.el project on github
15:09	technomancy	Crowb4r: you could use leiningen to create a project skeleton for you
15:09	technomancy	$ lein new dont-use-a-name-based-on-clj
15:10	Crowb4r	technomancy: Ohh that sounds nice. I mean if it looks like a pos thats what opensource communities are for.
15:11	Crowb4r	technomancy: I'm annoyed with the amount of clj-* libs around as well. my emacs autocomplete when I type clj is just filled.
15:11	technomancy	Crowb4r: I've been taking names from literary characters; plenty of good material there.
15:12	bozhidar	technomancy: I'll do that, but I doubt I'll reproduce it reliably - I've installed it many time before without any problems(other than the compile warnings/errors)
15:13	technomancy	bozhidar: that does seem to be common with package.el issues unfortunately =\
15:14	bozhidar	technomancy: I hope that when ELPA become part of the official Emacs distribution the situation will improve rapidly
15:14	technomancy	yeah, that should help
15:14	Crowb4r	technomancy: My irc bot program is named after a Wheel of time character. However the nailgun lib will either be named something from a more known and pretentious book or something stupid like hammer,
15:14	zaphar_ps	technomancy: I finally got emacs to launch lein swank in the project and then connect slime all in one function the other day
15:14	bozhidar	technomancy: btw, I've been using many of your projects for a long time, but just recently started to join the irc community - I just wanted to congratulate you for the great work you're doing
15:14	zaphar_ps	made stuff much nicer
15:14	bozhidar	you're a real inspiration
15:15	technomancy	bozhidar: awesome. it just takes time and perseverance; I'm sure you'll be coming up with neat code once you ramp up too. =)
15:16	technomancy	zaphar_ps: yeah, launching the swank server with lein is nice since it guarantees a consistent environment
15:16	zaphar_ps	as a bonus I got to learn all about emacs processes process-filters and process-buffers
15:19	Crowb4r	I think clojure in general conforms more to my thought process with programming. strong types and defining every var just seemed to be a waste of time for a lot of programs I've wrote. As a bonus to clojure I learned emacs as I used vim and a full blown ide for other languages.
15:21	polypus	i need to pipe output to another process started from clojure. c.c.shell's sh has an :in option but that only accepts a string, whereas i want to rebind out to a pipe because my strings are too big. what should i be looking at? do i need to hit javaland?
15:23	bozhidar	Crowb4r: do you enjoy Emacs Lisp as well?
15:24	bozhidar	Emacs Lisp got me into Lisp programming, but Clojure's modern and practical approach for solving problems got me hooked
15:24	bozhidar	:)
15:25	Crowb4r	bozhidar: meh, but I have not used it that much. I just did LISP in textmate and gvim for the most part.
15:25	Crowb4r	well Common LISP
15:26	Crowb4r	I like CL, but the ONLY IMUTABLE THINGS! was somtimes a problem.
15:29	Crowb4r	CL did get me to use closures because C# 2.0 just ignored that whole concept.
15:30	Scriptor	that's it, I'm having a try at installing vimclojure again
15:30	Chousuke	only immutable things? :/
15:31	Crowb4r	Chousuke: I overstated that, I mean more along the lines of pure functions.
15:31	Chousuke	you mean in CL or in Clojure?
15:40	arkrost	Hi! Explain me please why function (defn sample [#^String s] s) don't throw exception when I do this: (sample 1)
15:42	arkrost	hey. Is anyone here?
15:43	Chousuke	arkrost: type hints are just hints
15:43	Chousuke	arkrost: you're not actually trying to use s as a string so it doesn't fail
15:43	Chousuke	arkrost: the type hint is just telling the compiler you expect s to be a string so that it can avoid reflection if you use String methods
15:45	sh10151	anyone use swank-clojure-project? i'm wondering how to get it to use my log4j.properties
15:53	etate	is lein supposed to be working? I can't seem to build it following instructions :[
15:54	mabes	has anyone seen this error when trying to compile before? java.lang.Exception: namespace 'my_namespace' not found after loading '/my_namespace'
15:54	mabes	I have a project which compiles fine on OSx but throws that error on ubuntu
15:54	etate	message is: "your leiningen is missing dependencies... please download a stable version"... I downloaded the stable script and this doesnt work :/
15:54	arohner	mabes: it means your ns declaration doesn't match the filename
15:55	arohner	mabes: if you have (ns foo.bar.baz), it expects it to find that file in foo/bar/baz.clj on your classpath
15:55	Chousuke	mabes: I think the namespace should be my-namespace :P
15:56	mabes	Chousuke, arohner: right, for some reason I had to name the file my_namespace even though the ns is named my-namespace... so what you are saying make sense. Maybe it is a osx specific issue.. Let me try switching it..
15:56	Chousuke	mabes: it's not
15:56	arohner	mabes: my-namespace is not valid for a java filename
15:56	Chousuke	right
15:56	arohner	so clojure converts my_namespace to my-namespace
15:56	Chousuke	clojure does some munging
15:57	Chousuke	to support lispy identifiers
15:57	Chousuke	because underscores are icky
15:57	mabes	ok, so there is some expected mismatch
15:57	mabes	(and harder to type)
15:57	KirinDave	Underscores are icky?
15:57	KirinDave	Where are they icky?
15:57	technomancy	mabes: OS X vs Ubuntu problems often stem from the fact that the OS X filesystem is case-insensitive by default =(
15:58	Chousuke	technomancy: I've never found that to be a problem yet
15:58	mabes	technomancy: hmm... I don't think I've been using any caps in my ns though..
15:58	Chousuke	technomancy: at least it's case-preserving
15:58	technomancy	Chousuke: sure, but it's really easy to get Works on My Box™ bugs
15:58	Crowb4r	For times sake I'm just going to use the pircbot java lib to handle my stuff... for now.
16:01	technomancy	http://www.codeodor.com/images/works-on-my-machine-starburst.png
16:01	Crowb4r	So, How much of an advantage in terms of preformance does a native clojure lib have over calling the java ones. I know that question is slightly subjective in a lot of ways, but in general?
16:02	chouser	none
16:02	KirinDave	Crowb4r: Generally java will be slightly faster. For uninteresting things, anyways.
16:02	Crowb4r	k
16:03	KirinDave	I wonder when someone is gonna bite down on the proverbial leather strap and update server-socket to use nio.
16:03	Crowb4r	I like having the speed of java and the ability to use a repl. Speed when compared to the other big p languages.
16:03	chouser	I guess I do have a few cases here where I can use macros to do work at compile time that the Java lib does at runtime, so my wrapper can actually be a bit faster.
16:03	sh10151	of course it won't matter much because you'll be waiting on the network or disk I/O 99% of the time anyway
16:04	KirinDave	And this little toy is still the #1 hit for "clojure netty" on google
16:04	KirinDave	http://github.com/ngocdaothanh/telchat-clojure
16:04	KirinDave	Which is cute, but is Doin' It 'Rong
16:05	KirinDave	chouser: Speaking of this subject; do you know if it's possible to put annotations on deftype'd classes?
16:05	Crowb4r	sh10151: Ohhh I know. I get into constant arguments with some C++ fanboys.
16:05	chouser	KirinDave: pretty sure not
16:05	KirinDave	chouser: So either write a java class or use gen-class, eh?
16:05	mabes	So.. I only get the compile but when I have this in my leinigen project.clj: :main my_namespace (which I need since that is where my-main resides)..
16:05	chouser	I don't think gen-class can generate annotations either
16:06	KirinDave	chouser: It can
16:06	mabes	er. I only get the compile error...
16:06	Chousuke	mabes: shouldn't that still be my-namespace?
16:06	etate	just testing, can you guys see what i write?
16:06	Chousuke	no :P
16:06	mabes	etate: yes
16:06	etate	okay thanks :D
16:06	KirinDave	chouser: http://www.mail-archive.com/clojure@googlegroups.com/msg17628.html
16:07	mabes	Chousuke: no, it needs to be the java class version
16:07	mabes	Chousuke: I have verified that via experimentation
16:08	Crowb4r	sh10151: I got blasted pretty good for making something threaded in clojure (an irc bot to be specific) because the C++ friends of mine thought it was a waste because it would take much longer to write. I did it in less time and my bot does not get hung-up doing somethign thus missing his ping and getting disconnected. :)
16:08	KirinDave	I do wonder why clojure doesn't provide more ways to do annotations tho.
16:09	chouser	KirinDave: that's a example of how they'd like annotations to work. I see no evidence that they do.
16:09	KirinDave	chouser: Oh?
16:09	KirinDave	I thought they were saying this is what it does.
16:09	KirinDave	What's with the hate?
16:09	KirinDave	I mean, Netty alone justifies the existence of an annotation interop.
16:09	technomancy	KirinDave: indifference is more likely than hate
16:10	chouser	just an requested but unimplemented feature
16:10	KirinDave	Well you look on the list
16:10	KirinDave	And every time it comes up
16:10	KirinDave	the first question is "WHY do you need this?"
16:10	KirinDave	"YOU are doing it WRONG."
16:11	chouser	can annontations be added via reflection?
16:11	technomancy	ok, maybe I haven't been paying attention. =)
16:12	KirinDave	chouser: If so that'd help a lot. You could deftype and then annotate that.
16:12	KirinDave	ugh
16:13	chouser	deftype is mostly not about host interop. annotations would be entirely about interop.
16:14	KirinDave	chouser: I thought we were to use deftype in place of gen-class if its limitations were not prohibitive?
16:18	Crowb4r	wow....... http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2007/12/17/java-upgrade-hammer/
16:19	Crowb4r	palm on face
16:34	KirinDave	Crowb4r: Man there is this world of like java app developers I don't understand.
16:35	KirinDave	Crowb4r: I gotta get a plane with a huge "This just in, cross platform app development sucks. Stop bitching about it." banner and just cruise around silicon valley
16:38	dnolen	KirinDave: haha, so true.
16:39	KirinDave	Java is not going to solve this problem. Neither is ANYTHING ELSE.
16:39	KirinDave	If you can't deal, pack up and go to infrastructure where you can hit a smaller subset of platforms. Be happier. Collect a larger paycheck, too.
16:41	slyphon	in for, :when acts as a filter?
16:41	chouser	slyphon: yes
16:41	slyphon	ok
16:41	slyphon	cool, thought so
16:42	lancepantz	i love when you you work with the jdbc wrapper and you have a lazy sequence of a lazy resultset
16:42	slyphon	well, that seems like a good fit
16:45	lancepantz	suppose i just haven't found a use where i don't have to doall on them
16:45	slyphon	yeah, exactly
16:49	arohner	so I want to use jclouds, but google code is sucking right now, so lein isn't working. I've downloaded the distribution zip that's full of jars. Is there a way to tell maven to import all of that, so lein will pull the deps out correctly?
16:51	arohner	a more convenient way than reading poms and manually copying, that is
16:59	lpetit	hi all
16:59	lpetit	ccw 0.0.50 released
17:03	lpetit	seems like everybody is at lunch in USA, see you guys
17:03	mabes	arohner: what is the dir stricture of the zip? you may be able to drop it into your ~/.m2/repository
17:03	arohner	mabes: doesn't look convenient, and it looks like the zip doesn't contain poms
17:04	arohner	I'm going to see if I can build from source and mvn install
17:04	mabes	yeah, probably next best thing.. unless you know someone with it cached in there ~/.m2 :)
17:04	mabes	any ideas on why I can't set the :main with leinigen like this? http://gist.github.com/338153
17:05	arohner	mabes: is that file naming again?
17:05	duncanm	hmm
17:05	duncanm	weird
17:05	mabes	yeah, well foo.core works but foo_bar.core gives the java.lang.Exception: namespace 'foo_bar.core' not found after loading '/foo_bar/core'
17:05	arohner	is the directory named foo_bar?
17:06	duncanm	in a destructuring let, if i have things that I don't care for, I can bind it to _, right?
17:06	arohner	mabes: java doesn't like files or directories with '-' in them, and clojure munges '_' to '-'
17:07	mabes	arohner: the file name is src/foo_bar/core.clj
17:07	mabes	arohner: you can clone the gist for the dir structure
17:11	arohner	mabes: it ran without errors here
17:12	mabes	arohner: really? what OS are you on?
17:13	arohner	osx 10.6
17:13	arohner	though this doesn't look like an OS issue
17:13	arohner	are you running what you think you're running? do a clean checkout of your gist and run it
17:14	mabes	arohner: yep, did a clean checkout and ran "lein compile" with the same results
17:15	mabes	(the error)
17:16	mabes	arohner: I get that error on osx 10.5.8 and ubuntu
17:18	mabes	screw it, I'll just not use - or _ in my main ns
17:19	technomancy	mabes: there's a simple rule: dashes in the namespaces, underscores on disk.
17:19	technomancy	so in defproject, :main should be foo-bar.core
17:21	mabes	technomancy: that compiles but when I try to run the jar I get: "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: foo-bar/core"
17:21	mabes	technomancy: so it looks like :main needs to use the java class naming convention..
17:31	technomancy	chouser: any chance you could look at http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/246 any time soon?
17:31	technomancy	I got verbal agreement from Rich in here on that fix, but I don't know if he's seen the actual patch. Since it's a one-liner do you think that's a problem?
17:32	slyphon	,(contains? (list "a" "b") "a")
17:32	clojurebot	false
17:32	slyphon	wtf?!
17:32	drewr	faq
17:32	drewr	,(contains? {:a 1 :b 2} :a)
17:32	clojurebot	true
17:33	slyphon	yeah, but i'm trying to find out if a list-of-something contains something else
17:33	technomancy	slyphon: it's a misnomer. think of contains? as has-key? instead
17:33	slyphon	ah
17:33	technomancy	trips everyone up though
17:33	slyphon	ok
17:33	slyphon	ok, well i can make that work
17:33	drewr	,(#{1} [1 2 3])
17:33	clojurebot	nil
17:33	drewr	er
17:34	drewr	,(#{1 2 3} 1)
17:34	clojurebot	1
17:34	drewr	,(#{1 2 3} 4)
17:34	clojurebot	nil
17:34	slyphon	,(some #{1} [1 2 3])
17:34	clojurebot	1
17:34	drewr	ah yes
17:34	dakrone	,(boolean (some #{1} [1 2 3]))
17:34	clojurebot	true
17:38	slyphon	ok, so then
17:38	slyphon	,(boolean (some (set "a") (list "a" "b")))
17:38	clojurebot	false
17:38	slyphon	wut?
17:39	technomancy	,(set "a")
17:39	clojurebot	#{\a}
17:39	technomancy	slyphon: set treats its argument like a collection
17:39	slyphon	oh son of a bitch
17:39	technomancy	heh
17:39	slyphon	that's not the first time that's gotten me
17:40	slyphon	,(boolean (some (set ["a"]) (list "a" "b")))
17:40	clojurebot	true
17:40	slyphon	hahahahha
17:40	slyphon	so is a vector the same "weight" as a list or a set?
17:40	scottj	Is there a function foo that (foo bar tar) = (some #(= % bar) tar)? (I know I can write one, just wondering if I'm missing a name)
17:41	hiredman	I am pretty sure there is something in contrib somewhere
17:41	slyphon	if i just have a bag-o-items, should i prefer one over the others?
17:42	scottj	hiredman: ahh, thanks. seq-utils/includes?
17:46	mabes	ok, so I've verified that my compile error goes away with Leiningen 1.0.1, but it comes back with Leiningen 1.1.0
17:47	technomancy	mabes: if you could tar up a repro case and post it to the mailing list that would be great
17:47	technomancy	along with a github issue
17:48	mabes	technomancy: okay.. will be clonable gist be enough though?
17:48	technomancy	mabes: oh sure... I've been out of it; I didn't realize gists could contain multiple files. =)
17:48	technomancy	cools
17:49	mabes	technomancy: yeah, you can say "git clone git://gist.github.com/338153.git gist-338153" and see my exact project
18:15	KirinDave	http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1200389
18:16	KirinDave	Doh
18:16	KirinDave	mispost
18:16	KirinDave	sorry
18:17	arohner	http://gist.github.com/338257
18:17	arohner	any ideas what that exception means?
18:24	StartsWithK	arohner, i may be wrong but it looks like api should use local variable (java) that has annotation of some kind and is of type String
18:25	StartsWithK	something like void someMethod() { String @annot myVar = "bla"; /* use myVar with api.. */ }
18:28	StartsWithK	ok, RT/loadResourceScript can load any clojure script, with any ns in it, but, require will reload the script again if called later, even without :reload-all flag
18:28	StartsWithK	are they not connected?
18:33	technomancy	why doesn't bound-fn just take a function?
18:33	StartsWithK	Var require = RT/var("clojure.core", "require"); require.invoke(new Symbol("foo.bar")); is then a right way to load a namespace from java?
18:34	StartsWithK	technomancy, isn't then there a risk that var was already resolver inside a function body?
18:35	StartsWithK	there is bound-fn* that takes a function
18:36	technomancy	StartsWithK: oh, nice; thanks
18:37	technomancy	StartsWithK: vars wouldn't be bound in the function body at the time you call bound-fn
18:37	duncanm	is that scala syntax?
18:37	technomancy	well, modulo direct binding, in which case you're stuck either way
18:38	StartsWithK	technomancy, brr
18:38	StartsWithK	duncanm, no.. its a weird clojure/java mix :) RT.var not RT/var :)
18:39	StartsWithK	yesterday i was trying to write for loop in js, and after four-five tries i managed not to write it as (for ..)
18:40	remleduff	StartsWithK: Why not just (RT/load "foo.bar") ?
18:42	StartsWithK	remleduff, it looks like RT/load and friend don't register with clojure lib functions
18:42	StartsWithK	s*
18:42	StartsWithK	so, if i do (RT/load "foo.bar") and then (require 'foo.bar) it will load the lib twice
18:44	remleduff	Why do you need to require it after loading it?
18:45	StartsWithK	first time from java so i can reset a var value, and all other times from normal clojure code
18:45	StartsWithK	i think i can guard the var with defone, so maybe its not a problem after all
18:46	remleduff	Namespace.findOrCreate(Symbol.create("clojure.core")) or something simliar might be even better, it's how RT does it. Or just Namespace.find
18:47	StartsWithK	yap, defone helped
18:47	StartsWithK	there is RT/CLOJUR_NS
18:49	StartsWithK	thanks all
18:50	StartsWithK	so.. what is the best way to send clojure structures from one clojure to another loaded in different classloaders?
18:50	StartsWithK	just prn and read?
18:51	slyphon	chouser: hey is there an example of the clojure.contrib.condition lib somewhere?
19:01	tomsw	i'd like to run something in a separate thread, using try & finally to ensure a thread-local resource is cleaned up, and then get the return value or throw any error raised. Do I want an agent?
19:02	StartsWithK	tomsw, yes, then use agent-error to check for exceptions
19:02	StartsWithK	,(doc agent-error)
19:02	clojurebot	Excuse me?
19:02	StartsWithK	,(doc agent-errors)
19:02	clojurebot	"([a]); Returns a sequence of the exceptions thrown during asynchronous actions of the agent."
19:08	tomsw	but if I want block until the agent's work is finished? If I use await and the function throws an error it looks like I wait for ever
19:08	StartsWithK	,(doc await)
19:08	clojurebot	"([& agents]); Blocks the current thread (indefinitely!) until all actions dispatched thus far, from this thread or agent, to the agent(s) have occurred."
19:08	StartsWithK	hmm
19:08	StartsWithK	that could be a bug :)
19:09	StartsWithK	,(doc agent)
19:09	clojurebot	"([state] [state & options]); Creates and returns an agent with an initial value of state and zero or more options (in any order): :meta metadata-map :validator validate-fn If metadata-map is supplied, it will be come the metadata on the agent. validate-fn must be nil or a side-effect-free fn of one argument, which will be passed the intended new state on any state change. If the new state is unacceptable, the validate-fn
19:10	StartsWithK	in master, there is :error-handler
19:10	StartsWithK	you can declare on agent
19:16	tomsw	I think it will be simpler just to use a normal thread and a ref for the result and the error
19:33	kylesmith	Is there a way to limit the number of elements that remove will eliminate from a sequence?
19:36	Chousuke	not with remove. you need a custom function for that
19:36	Chousuke	or a stateful predicate, but that's ugly
19:38	kylesmith	@Chousuke That's what I thought. I'm trying to probabilistically remove elements from an infinite seq, and vanilla remove might never quit.
19:39	hiredman	remove is lazy
19:39	hiredman	why would it be a problem with an infinite seq?
19:39	Chousuke	yes, but it will remove elements until it finds something not to remove
19:39	Chousuke	so if you're randomly deciding whether something needs to be removed, it might never quit :)
19:40	JonSmith	oh man, but it probably will
19:40	hiredman	but it doesn't do anything until you walk the seq
19:40	Chousuke	hiredman: it's enough to try to consume the first item
19:40	kylesmith	it's in the context of a genetic algorithm
19:40	hiredman	remove or filter both won't stop removing or filtering no matter what predicate you use on an infinite seq
19:41	Chousuke	hiredman: I meant to say remove is strict until it finds something that fails the predicate
19:42	Chousuke	if you have an infinite seq of nils and run remove nil? on it, it will run forever if you try to do anything with it.
19:42	hiredman	no, because you are asking for the next thing,
19:42	hiredman	that is lazy, not strict
19:42	JonSmith	what if i have an infinite seq of numbers and remove all primes
19:42	JonSmith	it will stop at the first non prime?
19:42	hiredman	it won't stop
19:43	JonSmith	hmm
19:43	Chousuke	you have a different idea of "stop" than I
19:43	Chousuke	it WILL stop
19:43	hiredman	Chousuke: the seq won't end
19:43	Chousuke	it won't compute past the first non-prime until you ask for more
19:43	Chousuke	hiredman: yes, but the computation will stop
19:43	JonSmith	oh ok
19:43	hiredman	Chousuke: no, it's still computing
19:43	hiredman	just spinning
19:43	Chousuke	hiredman: what.
19:44	Chousuke	I don't understand your point anymore.
19:44	hiredman	Chousuke: in the case of (remove nil? (cycle [nil]))
19:45	JonSmith	i think what chosuke is saying if you do like (take 2 (remove even? (iterate inc 0)))
19:45	Chousuke	right, of course.
19:45	JonSmith	it will stop
19:45	Chousuke	in the nil case it will never stop
19:45	hiredman	several points, a) remove will not stop on an infinite seq, you may stop consuming it, but the lazy-seq generated by remove is still there
19:45	hiredman	b) uh, there was something
19:46	hiredman	remove is not strict
19:46	kylesmith	how do I paste code in here again?
19:46	Chousuke	I know remove is not strict, but it computes until it finds the next value
19:46	JonSmith	lisppaste.org (?)
19:46	JonSmith	http://paste.lisp.org/
19:46	Chousuke	and it does stop in the sense that it doesn't compute any more, until you ask for the next item in the infinite seq
19:46	JonSmith	that one
19:47	Chousuke	if remove never stopped you would have a buggy program :)
19:47	hiredman	16:43 Chousuke : hiredman: I meant to say remove is strict until it finds
19:47	hiredman	something that fails the predicate
19:48	Chousuke	hiredman: yes, with which I meant to say that it keeps computing until it can give you an item
19:48	JonSmith	,(take 2 (remove even? (iterate inc 0)))
19:48	clojurebot	(1 3)
19:48	hiredman	Chousuke: yes, but you have to ask for the item, which makes it lazy
19:49	hiredman	I think the sun is frying my brain
19:49	Chousuke	I think this is a pointless argument :P
19:49	hiredman	gorgeous day in seattle
19:49	Chousuke	apparently just a bad choice of wording on my part
19:50	hiredman	:)
19:50	Chousuke	and I really need some sleep :P
19:53	kylesmith	hmm, paste doesn't seem to be working. Do I need to do anything different now that freenode requires registration?
19:53	JonSmith	hm let me check
19:54	JonSmith	you can also do a normal one and just paste the link
19:55	JonSmith	http://paste.lisp.org/display/96652
19:56	JonSmith	etc.
19:58	kylesmith	http://paste.lisp.org/display/96653 There's my solution, if anyone's interested.
19:59	JonSmith	are you using it on an infinite seq?
20:00	kylesmith	the input is from repeatedly, where I generate new candidate solutions.
20:02	JonSmith	cool
20:07	kylesmith	I also need to put a fixed number of elements into a set lazily. Do I need to make a custom function for this as well?
20:08	JonSmith	lazily?
20:09	kylesmith	If the set function were lazy, I think I could just do (take n (set some-infinite-seq))
20:10	JonSmith	you can't just do (set (take n seq-here))?
20:10	JonSmith	i mean, set returns a datastructure
20:11	qbg	Maybe you want distinct
20:11	kylesmith	no, because I want the resulting set to have n members.
20:11	qbg	,(doc distinct)
20:11	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the elements of coll with duplicates removed"
20:11	kylesmith	I was replying to JonSmith. Distinct looks like it would work.
20:12	JonSmith	yeah so (set (take n (distinct some-infinite-seq)))
20:13	kylesmith	what I actually want to do is (set (take n (distinct (map some-equal-fn some-infinite-seq)))) but have the resulting set contain members from some-infinite-seq. Is there an easy way to do that?
20:14	JonSmith	i think that you just wrote the way to do that
20:15	JonSmith	oh
20:15	JonSmith	or do you want filter
20:15	JonSmith	?
20:16	qbg	I think you might need to write a function based on distinct
20:17	JonSmith	what does some-equal-fn do?
20:17	JonSmith	like a predicate?
20:18	qbg	Probably like the key keyword argument to REMOVE-DUPLICATES in Common Lisp
20:18	clojurebot	lisp is the red pill
20:18	kylesmith	Well, it looks like I'll have to make another custom function. thanks for the help, everyone, I have to go.
20:20	JonSmith	oh its distinct based on the eq function
20:26	slyphon	so, does clojure.contrib.sql take care of connection pooling and such?
20:26	slyphon	or it just relies on the driver for that?
20:30	dhess	Hi, can anyone point me to definitive documentation on how to write a command-line script that'll run when invoked as 'java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main script.clj' ?
20:31	dhess	I've found some blog posts and github repos with examples, but I can't get any of them to work.
20:33	dhess	sorry, more specifically with the clojure.contrib.command-line library
20:34	dhess	I can get a simple (prn command-line-args) script to run, I just can't figure out the mojo to write a script with a "main" function that takes & args
20:34	hiredman	dhess: there is no default function that clojure calls
20:35	hiredman	so you would do something like (apply my-main command-line-args) at the end of the script
20:35	dhess	apply ahhh gotcha
20:35	dhess	all of the examples I've seen use :gen-class with a -main
20:35	dhess	but it looks like those are compiling a jar first
20:36	hiredman	that is for aot compiling
20:36	dhess	hiredman: is this documented anywhere?
20:36	hiredman	clojurebot: compiling
20:36	clojurebot	No entiendo
20:37	hiredman	clojurebot: jerk
20:37	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
20:37	hiredman	clojurebot: compile
20:37	clojurebot	the unit of compilation in clojure is the namespace. namespaces are compiled (not files). to compile a namspace the namespace needs to be on the classpath and so does ./classes/ (and the directory needs to exist) because clojure writes the class files to that directory. http://clojure.org/compilation
20:37	dhess	hiredman: sorry, I meant the bit about clojure not calling a default function, needing to (apply ...) etc.
20:38	hiredman	dhess: well there is no documentation that says it calls a default function
20:38	dhess	hiredman: it'd be nice if there were somewhere on clojure.org that said: here is how to write a script
20:38	dhess	I see
20:39	dhess	hiredman: it's obvious that I should have tried this approach in retrospect, but it wasn't before I found out about it ;) So a FAQ or short wiki page would be a good idea, I think.
20:39	hiredman	the lightweight scripting use of clojure doesn't seem to happen much
20:40	hiredman	which is too bad
20:40	dhess	interesting that none of the informal "how-tos" or answered questions I found said anything about this
20:40	hiredman	(it works great)
20:40	psykotic	hiredman: i like the #! reader macro :)
20:40	dhess	hiredman: the start-up cost is a bit much for short jobs.
20:40	technomancy	hiredman: it would work a lot better if you could have a shebang that was honored
20:40	technomancy	or rather, if there was one obvious way to do it
20:40	hiredman	dhess: depends
20:40	hiredman	shrug
20:41	StartsWithK	some one posted a easy way to do it as: java -cp clojure.jar:src-dir clojure.main -e "(use 'foo.bar) (main)"
20:41	dhess	I guess on Windows there's some fancy fast startup/cache/preload functionality, but it doesn't appear to exist on other platforms
20:41	psykotic	a simple command line utility that takes a second to get going feels bad in the same way that a UI that locks up for a second after you click a button feels bad.
20:41	psykotic	whether or not it's more or less productive in some objective sense is another matter.
20:41	hiredman	dhess: depends on what you think is a suitable start up time
20:42	hiredman	I generally don't mind, but that is mostly for batch processing whatever
20:42	dhess	hiredman: well, at least as good as a shell script would be a good start
20:42	hiredman	so, you know, just fire and forget
20:42	dhess	hiredman: anyway, I'm not complaining, just pointing out one reason why it might not be commonplace to use Clojure for scripting.
20:42	psykotic	has anyone tried nailgun?
20:42	dhess	I was just complaining that there's no "best known method" for it in the Clojure docs ;)
20:43	hiredman	dhess: there are several shell scripts floating around, that may or may not work, and are most likely mutually incompatible
20:43	hiredman	psykotic: many people have
20:43	hiredman	vimclojure uses nailgun
20:43	hiredman	there is a lein nailgun plugin
20:43	psykotic	are there any gotchas?
20:43	hiredman	my netbook fires up a nailgun server at boot
20:44	hiredman	you are stuck with the classpath the nailgun server was started with
20:44	psykotic	really? i thought you could create a new classloader with another classpath in java?
20:44	dhess	I was quite surprised to see that java doesn't appear to have any way to run in a "server" mode with hot caches
20:44	hiredman	psykotic: you can, but it doesn't work well
20:45	psykotic	btw does nailgun use the underlying os's forking?
20:45	StartsWithK	no
20:45	hiredman	you can write your own classloader to use as a system classloader
20:45	psykotic	how does it isolate things then?
20:45	hiredman	and give your classloader a .add method
20:45	dhess	hiredman: anyway, thanks, your advice re: using apply just brought my blood pressure down to a normal level again.
20:45	hiredman	psykotic: doesn't
20:45	StartsWithK	it dosn't
20:46	hiredman	everything runs on one jvm
20:46	psykotic	also, java's monotonic-growth heap would be annoying with a 'wrapper' like nailgun, since it would generally stay up continually
20:46	StartsWithK	for a 'isolation' see something like classworlds
20:48	StartsWithK	with multiple clojure instances, each in its own urlclassloader
20:48	clojurebot	vimclojure is state-of-the-art
20:48	hiredman	~botsnack
20:48	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
20:48	technomancy	with the -Xbootclasspath you can get boot times to around half a second
20:48	technomancy	(with caveats)
20:48	hiredman	:(
20:48	hiredman	yes, caveats
20:51	psykotic	like what?
20:53	psykotic	i wonder what horrible things would go awry if you just called out to unix fork()
20:54	StartsWithK	psykotic, nothing realy, ant can do that
20:55	StartsWithK	also, there is extracted api for forking jvm in apache commons, based on ant's code
21:04	psykotic	StartsWithK: couldn't that be used to avoid some startup cost?
21:05	psykotic	i assume almost everyone is going to be java.lang.*, etc
21:05	psykotic	*be loading
21:07	StartsWithK	there are other ways to speed up loading of core jars
21:08	StartsWithK	psykotic, http://blog.headius.com/2009/01/my-favorite-hotspot-jvm-flags.html
21:09	psykotic	ah i'll have to play around with that
21:10	StartsWithK	http://pastebin.com/7kcmTqr1 to load just core jars, and do something with them, startup time is ok
21:15	StartsWithK	in, out and err are never updated from System after the first bind?
21:15	StartsWithK	if i update System version, they will stay the same
21:20	maxhodak	is it possible to do something like (require (symbol (str "foo." classname))) ?
21:21	Raynes	Licenser: Thank you for clj-sandbox. Has been very useful.
21:21	hiredman	why would you be requiring something with a classname?
21:21	maxhodak	hiredman: or, whatever that variable might be. the idea is just generating the require symbol at runtime
21:21	maxhodak	which seems to be giving me compile errors
21:22	maxhodak	s/require symbol/symbol to require
21:22	hiredman	,(if (:macro (meta #'require)) "no" "yes")
21:22	clojurebot	"yes"
21:23	slyphon	argh
21:23	slyphon	mysql, FEEL THE HATE
21:24	maxhodak	hiredman: does that mean that the function that makes the require form needs to be a macro as well?
21:25	hiredman	maxhodak: as well?
21:25	slyphon	is it possible to "clear out" the memoized results of a function?
21:26	slyphon	by re-loading the class, maybe?
21:26	slyphon	s/class/lib/
21:35	maxhodak	hiredman: so basically, (require (symbol "com.foo.baz.quux")) doesn't work?
21:36	maxhodak	or ok: how would you get it to evaluate the inner statement first?
21:36	maxhodak	oh
21:36	maxhodak	just kidding
21:36	maxhodak	JUST KIDDING
21:36	hiredman	…
21:39	dcnstrct	serious question: is it possible to port this style of java code to clojure ? http://pastebin.com/QngijPp7
21:39	dcnstrct	look at all that method chaining
21:39	dcnstrct	I can't even imagine what it would look like it hurts my head
21:40	slyphon	you'd use the .. macro a lot, i would imagine
21:40	dcnstrct	would I use one bit (.. expression ?
21:40	dcnstrct	ahhhh
21:40	hiredman	no
21:40	hiredman	no ..
21:40	hiredman	use ->
21:40	slyphon	ah
21:40	slyphon	too right
21:40	dcnstrct	neat, I will investigate ->
21:41	hiredman	,(-> "foo" .getBytes String. .toUpperCase .getBytes first char)
21:41	clojurebot	\F
21:42	JonSmith	so, would you really want to write that java code in java?
21:43	JonSmith	it looks totally crazy to me
21:43	dcnstrct	thats the code neatbeans gui builder spits out when I make a simple swing form.. heh
21:43	slyphon	java makes people do strange things
21:43	JonSmith	doto macro might also be helpful
21:44	slyphon	not if you're chaining
21:44	JonSmith	yeah i'll say it makes them do crazy stuff
21:44	slyphon	but yeah, it's useful in other situations
21:44	JonSmith	some of the.adds maybe
21:45	JonSmith	i don't really know what it is doing honestly
21:45	hiredman	the code from most gui builders is not meant to be read or written
21:45	hiredman	just machine generated
21:45	slyphon	heh
21:45	dcnstrct	or ported to clojure
21:45	dcnstrct	lol
21:45	hiredman	it's true
21:45	psykotic	method chaining is one of the nicer smalltalk patterns. although it can get excessive, like anything.
21:45	hiredman	they tell people that all the time in #java
21:45	slyphon	does anyone have 'electric-{' working in paredit mode
21:46	slyphon	there are like 4 different ways to do it, and i can't seem to find one that works consistently
21:48	slyphon	wow, i'm just batting 1.000 tonight with the questions
21:48	dcnstrct	I think I will try to compile this form as java and stick it in a .jar then import it from clojure
21:49	hiredman	right, that is essentially the same thing you would do with java
22:22	seangrove	Hey all, having a hard time differentiate between what's java and clojure sometimes
22:22	seangrove	what is (io!)?
22:23	seangrove	I can't seem to find the documentation on it
22:23	hiredman	,(doc io!)
22:23	clojurebot	"([& body]); If an io! block occurs in a transaction, throws an IllegalStateException, else runs body in an implicit do. If the first expression in body is a literal string, will use that as the exception message."
22:23	seangrove	haha
22:23	seangrove	Aiya... yes, there is (doc ... :P
22:23	seangrove	My bad
22:35	TalkingHead	what is the clojure way of filtering one collection with another?
22:35	TalkingHead	Say I had 2 collections like so
22:35	TalkingHead	(def flight '("SUN" "SUN" "MON" "TUES" "WED" "THURS" 13:25 RF200 ))
22:36	TalkingHead	(def filter-flight '("SUN" "TUES"))
22:38	TalkingHead	Can I find out if the first collection contains elements of the second without looping through?
22:38	technomancy	TalkingHead: (filter (set filter-flight) flight)
22:38	danlei	(for [x '[su su mo tu we th] p '[su mo] :when (= x p)] x)
22:39	TalkingHead	thx guys