#clojure – 2010-03-02

2010-03-02

00:29	bradbeveridge	is Java's ZipInputStream really slow, or am I using it wrong?
00:29	bradbeveridge	clojurebot: pastebin?
00:29	clojurebot	excusez-moi
00:31	bradbeveridge	http://clojure.pastebin.com/zR9di5K0
00:39	zaphar_ps	bradbeveridge: I've never tried to benchmark it so I don't know
00:39	bradbeveridge	ok, I was using it wrong
00:39	bradbeveridge	I thought getNextEntry would throw
00:39	bradbeveridge	it returns null, so I would have been sitting in an infinite loop for a while ;)
00:39	bradbeveridge	it has native like perf
00:40	zaphar_ps	heh
01:54	scottj	Anyone else get the error "Wrong number of arguments to task uberjar" when running "lein.bat uberjar" in Windows?
02:40	spariev	scottj: yep, I got this too, lein 1.1.0 seems to fix the problem - http://groups.google.com/group/leiningen/browse_thread/thread/a43ded3d659da915#
02:57	scottj	spariev: thanks
03:11	LauJensen	Morning crew
03:12	TheBusby	evening
03:21	spariev	Morning
03:27	vy	Isn't there an "if" in Clojure?
03:27	bsteuber	,(doc if)
03:27	clojurebot	Excuse me?
03:28	vy	There is cond, if-not, if-let, but no if?
03:28	bsteuber	there is
03:28	bsteuber	at least it was there yesterday :)
03:28	TheBusby	,(doc if)
03:28	clojurebot	Huh?
03:29	TheBusby	Please see http://clojure.org/special_forms#if
03:29	bsteuber	,(if 5 :true :false)
03:29	clojurebot	:true
03:29	danlei	it's a special form
03:39	ordnungswidrig	I think more idiomatic when, however
03:48	esj	wotcha
03:57	LauJensen	ordnungswidrig: huh ?
03:59	ordnungswidrig	LauJensen: hmm, I think I meant: "I think more ideomatic than 'if' is when"
04:03	LauJensen	I dont think they vary in levels of idiomacy, but if is for 2 bodies, when is for 1, different uses
04:15	esj	idiomacy, nice word.
04:19	ordnungswidrig	LauJensen: you're right.
04:28	a_strange_guy	hi there, could anyone help me with swank-clojure?
04:29	a_strange_guy	i want to use it without the swank-clojure.jar
04:31	a_strange_guy	bu i cannot configure my classpath so that it will find the (not compiled) source checkout
04:33	AWizzArd	Moin guys
04:33	a_strange_guy	moin moin
04:34	AWizzArd	You want to use the code files directly, but not the compiled .jar file.
04:34	a_strange_guy	correct
04:35	AWizzArd	And does the path of those source files show up in your (System/getProperty "java.class.path") ?
04:36	a_strange_guy	I tried (S/gP "j.c.p")
04:36	a_strange_guy	but no, the won't show up
04:36	a_strange_guy	only .jar's
04:40	AWizzArd	Then the CP needs to be set correctly.
04:41	AWizzArd	For some reason the "/path/to/swank-clojure/" thing was not added.
04:43	a_strange_guy	swank-clojure-classpath = (append '("/opt/swank-clojure/src") (swank-clojure-default-classpath))
04:44	a_strange_guy	but when inferior lisp starts
04:44	a_strange_guy	there are only jars on the CP
04:45	AWizzArd	Then the append did not work as expected.
04:45	a_strange_guy	append works as expected
04:46	a_strange_guy	swank-clojure-classpath must be a list of strings
04:47	AWizzArd	in my (custom-set-variables ...) I have: '(swank-clojure-extra-classpaths '("/hg/clj/" "/hg/clj/config/" "/hg/lib/clj/swank-clojure/" "/hg/lib/clj/clojure-contrib/clojure-contrib.jar" ...))
04:50	a_strange_guy	same here
04:56	a_strange_guy	it seems to work now
04:57	AWizzArd	grats :)
04:57	a_strange_guy	looks like swank-clojure.el got scared ^^
04:57	AWizzArd	yay
07:08	eevar2	(doc slice)
07:08	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
07:18	eevar2	(doc partition)
07:18	clojurebot	"([n coll] [n step coll] [n step pad coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists of n items each, at offsets step apart. If step is not supplied, defaults to n, i.e. the partitions do not overlap. If a pad collection is supplied, use its elements as necessary to complete last partition upto n items. In case there are not enough padding elements, return a partition with less than n items."
07:31	nipra	Hi, I'm getting the error ``slime-goto-location-buffer: Search failed: " clojure/core.clj$"'' for slime-edit-definition for any clojure.core or contrib symbol. For other symbol (in some other ns) it's working fine.
07:41	powr-toc	nipra: does swank know where to find clojure?
07:43	nipra	powr-toc, yes. I'm using swank-clojure-project to fire up the repl.
07:45	powr-toc	nipra: I don't use that function, I find starting an external clojure program that starts swank, and then using M-x slime-connect works better... I find this gives you better control over the vm startup and classpath
07:45	powr-toc	whether this helps you or not is another matter :-\
07:47	powr-toc	It sounds like your clojure-src-root isn't being set properly though
07:48	nipra	powr-toc, earlier I was using emacs starter kit. It was working fine. It broke after my moved to my old setup.
07:48	bsteuber	nipra: I use swank-clojure-project with leiningen and finding source works fine
07:48	powr-toc	(check out clojure-mode.el file for info...) I set this by calling (clojure-slime-config "~/path/to/clojure") from my .emacs, but I've heard this method is deprecated...
07:50	powr-toc	bsteuber: I use lein too, but for the project I'm working on I have to be very careful with my classpath and classloaders, so starting clojure with a custom start script, and then connecting to it suits me better
07:51	bsteuber	then I guess this setup gives some classpath issue
07:52	bsteuber	so it can find the compiled code but not the clojure source
07:52	bsteuber	does that sound reasonable?
07:53	nipra	bsteuber, yes
07:54	bsteuber	so maybe check the clojure.jar you find in (get (System/getProperties) "java.class.path")
07:55	bsteuber	whether or not it includes the source
07:57	AWizzArd	Is there (in contrib) a tool to generate permutations?
08:02	AWizzArd	Okay, clojure.contrib.combinatorics offers a fn “permutations”.
08:05	Leafw	AWizzArd: I have the impression that almost anything I'd want is buried somewhere in c.c
08:06	esj	if i define a function: (fn my-fn [& xs]) and then proceed to call it (apply fn some-giant-collection) I run the risk of blowing the stack right ?
08:06	Leafw	esj: why not map?
08:07	Leafw	Isee, the args
08:07	Leafw	sorry
08:07	Chousuke	esj: depends on what you do to the args
08:07	esj	how so ?
08:07	Chousuke	,((fn [& args] (first args)) (iterate inc 1))
08:07	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
08:07	Chousuke	hm, opps
08:07	Chousuke	,(apply (fn [& args] (first args)) (iterate inc 1))
08:07	clojurebot	1
08:08	Chousuke	I meant to add that, of course :)
08:08	esj	hmm
08:08	Chousuke	so you can apply a function even on an infinite collection
08:08	esj	so the & binding doesn't break the laziness
08:08	esj	wow
08:12	esj	I guess my question directly is this: I am writing a library for time series. The CRUD functions currently expect collections, but I note that in clojure it is more idiomatic to have a multimethod a' la ([x]) and ([x & xs]) so am thinking about converting my code to that. However as my collections can potentially be pretty big, I'm worried about nasty effects.
08:12	esj	For instance http://github.com/esj/esjtools/blob/master/src/esjtools/timeseries.clj line 82
08:13	esj	am I just making up issues to worry about ?
08:13	AWizzArd	,(apply + (range 1000000))
08:13	clojurebot	499999500000
08:14	AWizzArd	esj: how giant is your coll?
08:14	AWizzArd	It obviously fits into RAM...
08:14	esj	yeah
08:14	AWizzArd	you have 128 gb ram? ;)
08:14	esj	actually....
08:15	esj	what I was concerned about was expanding the call beyond the call stack
08:15	esj	but clearly that doesn't happen, which is nice.
08:15	AWizzArd	You can (apply fn coll-of-10-mio-objs)
08:16	esj	thanks.
08:16	AWizzArd	I am not sure, maybe ram is the only practical limit shrugs
08:18	esj	so the question now is, how exactly is the argument list created ?
08:18	esj	RTFC time I guess
08:18	AWizzArd	What do you mean?
08:18	AWizzArd	Is it not your code which creates the argument collection?
08:19	esj	i mean the function calling semantic in Clojure itself. In my mind when you call a function the PC and all the arguments get put on the call stack. Clearly this is not happening here.
08:20	esj	or the apply example you gave above would try to put 1e6 vals on the stack, and it would overflow
08:21	esj	instead Clojure hands you your answer, with a sly grin.
08:22	a_strange_guy	esj: there is no call stack beyond 20 args
08:22	rhickey	esj: but apply only takes as many args as you pass. If you pass a fn and one collection, that's 2 args
08:22	esj	,(doc apply)
08:22	clojurebot	"([f args* argseq]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending args to argseq."
08:23	esj	mislead me to believing it was expanded out
08:23	a_strange_guy	apply passes a seq to the Fn
08:23	esj	aha - thanks gents. Now I understand.
08:24	a_strange_guy	and the Fn itself calls next &fist to pop the args of
08:24	rhickey	well, it goes to the meaning of & in arglists. Obviously variadics (+ in this case) are somewhat special
08:25	esj	gotcha
08:25	esj	sorry, that could be misconstrued. I mean that I understand.
08:26	rhickey	if the compiler needs to form the collection matching & more, then it will have to evaluate what you have passed. But in the case of apply, you have already created the collection
08:27	chouser	apply accepts a seq on the end. fns using & accepts a seq on the end. 'apply' does the work of fixing up the point at which the input switches to a seq to match what the fn is expecting
08:27	rhickey	fns using & don't accept seq on end really
08:27	rhickey	i.e. not via direct calling
08:28	esj	yeah
08:28	rhickey	but the logic of the function is in fact applied to a sequence
08:29	rhickey	so & in arglist say - please form a sequence of any additional args passed, after evaluating them. apply short-circuits that
08:30	rhickey	tricky part about apply is any intervening args between fn and argseq
08:32	a_strange_guy	why?, they seem just to be consed onto the seq
08:32	a_strange_guy	or will that go away?
08:33	rhickey	a_strange_guy: nothing's going away
09:12	rhickey	_fogus_: where is that?
09:13	_fogus_	rhickey: The print magazine
09:13	rhickey	ah
09:13	_fogus_	A co-worker just handed it to me
09:13	_fogus_	The logo gets center-stage on the cover
09:13	ohpauleez	yeah, I just read the write up
09:13	ohpauleez	er, the synopsis of the issue
09:14	ohpauleez	online
09:24	opqdonut	do C-M-{up,down} work for others in clojure-mode?
09:25	opqdonut	I tend to get "Containing expression ends prematurely" or "Unbalanced parentheses" around square brackets
09:36	chouser	somebody make me stop optimizing this! It's fine. I just need to stop.
09:41	stuartsierra	heh
09:42	rhickey	chouser: I thought Clojure was too fast for you?
09:42	rhickey	:)
09:43	chouser	shaddup ;-)
09:43	chouser	it's a bit addictive, moving things from runtime to compile time... O(n) to O(1)
09:44	chouser	hehe. user$eval__2146$eval$reify$reify__2188$eval$reify__2208$eval__2210$fn__2218
09:45	stuartsierra	blerg
09:45	stuartsierra	Sooner or later we're going to have to do something about fn names.
09:46	chouser	that's a fn generated by an eval called in the method of a reify from code eval'ed in a reify method...
09:46	stuartsierra	yikes
09:48	a_strange_guy	big question: ... WHY?!
09:48	Maddas	Not because it is easy, but because it is hard!
09:49	chouser	just a stack of stuff generated, usually at compile time, to make runtime access type-specific and fast.
10:00	djpowell	what's the story with binary compatability of aot compiled libs with different clojure releases? I know that there isn't any, but is this something that clojure should address at all, or do there need to be any recommendations for library authors or anything?
10:01	ordnungswidrig	Insn't there a limit on method name length in the jvm?
10:02	djpowell	64k i think
10:02	djpowell	that might lead to ugly stack traces though
10:04	djpowell	eg - perhaps leiningen should have an option to re-aot compile namespaces of libs with the version of clojure that is in use
10:05	stuartsierra	djpowell: only recommendation re AOT is to avoid it unless necessary; not a great solution
10:06	djpowell	yeah - i noticed that compojure currently aot compiles all of its namespaces. i don't know whether it needs to or not
10:21	chouser	bah. that's slower. grrr.
10:22	stuartsierra	ha
10:27	chouser	oh, it was re-eval'ing each time. that's not right..
10:38	zmila	how to know what parameter type expects given function?
10:39	zmila	,(doc file-seq)
10:39	clojurebot	"([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files"
10:39	zmila	what is "dir"?
10:40	stuartsierra	zmila: the argument to file-seq
10:40	zmila	i look into source, "dir" is "root" in tree-seq
10:41	chouser	the docstring could be a bit more specific.
10:41	chouser	,(file-seq ".")
10:41	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.io.File
10:41	chouser	there's a hint -- it wants a java.io.File
10:41	chouser	,(file-seq (java.io.File. "."))
10:41	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission . read)
10:42	zmila	ho, thanx, it's File object
10:52	a_strange_guy	does anyone know what the #^ reader macro does exactly?
10:52	a_strange_guy	does it add or replace metadata to forms
10:52	Chousuke	hmm
10:52	a_strange_guy	seems to do that or the other sometimes
10:53	a_strange_guy	(meta (quote #^foo (+ 5 6)))
10:53	a_strange_guy	,(meta (quote #^foo (+ 5 6)))
10:53	clojurebot	{:tag foo}
10:53	Chousuke	I don't think it matters, since forms can't have metadata before they're read :P
10:53	a_strange_guy	they have line numbers
10:53	Chousuke	that's added after reading
10:54	a_strange_guy	,(meta (quote #^{:foo "bar"} #^foo (+ 5 6)))
10:54	clojurebot	{:foo "bar"}
10:54	chouser	heh. didn't know that was supported at all
10:54	chouser	I mean, that it worked. I'm pretty sure it's not "supported"
10:54	Chousuke	that's probably undefined behaviour, yes :P
10:55	a_strange_guy	i was just thinking because there are so many case with:
10:55	bobo_	any easy way to add a jar to slime/swank/emacs thingy? compojure.jar to be exact
10:56	a_strange_guy	#^{:macro true} or #^{:private true} etc.
10:56	a_strange_guy	that you could make #^:keyword == #^{:keyword true}
10:57	Chousuke	hm
10:57	Chousuke	that wouldn't be so bad.
10:57	a_strange_guy	then (def #^:private #^macro ..)
10:58	chouser	I think I'd prefer to have options elsewhere in the forms that need them
10:58	a_strange_guy	or even (def ^String ^:private)
10:59	a_strange_guy	came to my mind when looking at #^{:unsynchronized-mutable true}
10:59	Chousuke	that's verbose on purpose
10:59	Chousuke	so that you won't use it :P
10:59	chouser	(defn sillyquote {:macro true} [x] `'~x) ; works today
11:00	a_strange_guy	keywords seem already reserved but unused
11:00	a_strange_guy	,(meta (quote #^:foo bar))
11:00	clojurebot	{:tag :foo}
11:03	technomancy	bobo_: place it in lib/ and do another M-x swank-clojure-project to restart your session
12:46	technomancy	Clojure just passed CL to become the #19 on the github high score chart: http://github.com/languages/Clojure
12:46	bsteuber	any ideas about an exception "java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named" when compiling a project with lein?
12:46	chouser	something is a string when it should be a keyword or symbol
12:47	bsteuber	ic - wasn't sure about what Named means
12:50	chouser	look for [N] here: http://tinyurl.com/clojure-classes ...because that's, you know, easy. :-P
12:50	chouser	it would be nice to have a way that lists everything currently known to implement X
12:51	bsteuber	wow - what a graph :)
12:51	Raynes	Yay!
12:51	arohner	chouser: is there a way to iterate through all known classes?
12:51	chouser	it's old and probably out of date, but a lot of it is still correct
12:51	bsteuber	the strange thing is that I don't even get a source file name in the exception
12:51	bsteuber	so I'm wondering if anything gets compiled at all
12:51	arohner	(filter #(contains? (ancestors %)) magic-class-list) should do it
12:52	chouser	arohner: not a good way. You could iterate through classes imported into a given namespace, or walk through .class files in a given .jar or directory. :-/
12:53	bsteuber	I think Java doesn't provide a nice way to list all classes of a package
12:53	stuartsierra	bsteuber: it doesn't provide any way at all
12:54	bsteuber	well, you can parse your classpath :)
12:54	bsteuber	browse
12:54	chouser	,(filter #(instance? clojure.lang.Named %) (vals (ns-imports ns)))
12:54	clojurebot	()
12:55	chouser	nope
12:55	chouser	,(filter #(isa? % clojure.lang.Named) (vals (ns-imports ns)))
12:55	clojurebot	()
12:55	chouser	,(import [clojure.lang Symbol Keyword])
12:55	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Keyword
12:55	chouser	,(filter #(isa? % clojure.lang.Named) (vals (ns-imports ns)))
12:55	clojurebot	(clojure.lang.Keyword clojure.lang.Symbol)
12:55	chouser	There! so as long as you know the answer ahead of time, you're all set.
12:55	arohner	,(identity ns)
12:55	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
13:25	arohner	I have a question: I have some code that looks like (defn my-fn [] (sql/transaction (foo) (bar) (baz))) . I want the return value of the function to be the return value of (bar). Is there any way to do this with a let or anything else "normal"? Do I have to resort to e.g. an atom?
13:26	tomoj	is there not an official clojureql in clojars?
13:26	tomoj	arohner: I don't understand
13:27	tomoj	(defn my-fn [] (let [bar (bar)] (sql/transaction (foo) bar (baz)) bar))
13:27	arohner	tomoj: but then the call to (bar) happens outside the transaction. (bar) has to be called inside the transaction
13:28	danlei	arohner: if the order of execution of (foo) (bar) and (baz) is important, you can just do all three of them in a let, otherwise tomoj's solution will suffice
13:28	tomoj	oh, I see
13:29	arohner	so then I do (defn my-fn [] (transaction (let [foo (foo) bar (bar) baz (baz)] ???) bar)
13:29	arohner	but that last bar is outside my let block, because the let is inside the transaction
13:29	tomoj	so return bar from the let block?
13:30	arohner	ah, it does look like contrib.sql/transaction promises it returns the value of the last expression
13:30	arohner	thanks
13:39	dakrone	is there a more idiomatic way of doing this, ww is (["foo" 1], ["bar" 0], ["baz" 3]), I want {"foo" 1, "bar" 0, "baz" 3} : (reduce merge (map #(hash-map (first %) (second %)) ww)) ?
13:39	chouser	(into {} ww)
13:40	dakrone	ahahaha, that's much better :) thanks chouser
13:40	chouser	:-)
13:40	dakrone	lisp makes it very easy to make doing simple things very difficult
13:40	dakrone	it's an amazingly-obfuscatable language
13:41	danlei	arohner: btw, (nitpicking) don't say "let-block", there is no such thing as a block, everyting is an expression
13:42	chouser	eh
13:43	hiredman	what is the diff?
13:54	danlei	hiredman: you mean the difference between a block and an expression?
13:57	hiredman	sure
13:57	hiredman	does block have a formal definition?
13:58	hiredman	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_%28programming%29 <-- has a scheme example
13:58	stuartsierra	"any expression where the hanging indent doesn't line up with the first argument" ;)
13:58	danlei	well, in procedual languages, there usually is a distinction between statements, expressions and blocks (in C-like syntax stuff between { }). I don't think this distinction exists in Lisps and using that terminology might convey the impression, that there is such a difference in lisps.
13:58	hiredman	ok
14:05	Chousuke	I'm not sure if calling let expressions blocks is a bad thing
14:05	Chousuke	they can contain more than one expression
14:06	stuartsierra	Maybe anything with an implicit "do"
14:07	danlei	maybe not a bad thing per se, but it sounds a bit strange to me. surely one can use terms like "block of scope", but "block" like in {} doesn't fit in my opinion.
14:07	danlei	but it's just my opinion
14:08	danlei	And I haven't heard it used like this in a Lisp context before
14:08	danlei	"let block", hm ...
14:08	danlei	pretty sure that sounds strange to me
14:08	arohner	well, I'm the guy that also got flack for calling Ruby Dictionaries hash-maps
14:09	stuartsierra	Common Lisp talks about blocks, if I recall
14:09	Chousuke	common lisp actually has its own definition for a block :)
14:09	Chousuke	"block n. a named lexical exit point, established explicitly by block or implicitly by operators such as loop, do and prog, to which control and values may be transfered by using a return-from form with the name of the block."
14:09	stuartsierra	sheesh
14:09	Chousuke	not very well applicable to clojure
14:09	Raynes	Does it really matter?
14:10	Chousuke	well, as long as you don't talk about lisp statements it's fine :P
14:10	danlei	well, CL has features of imperative languages, like the "prog" feature and stuff. but ok, don't wanna argue about that. let's just say I think "let block" sounds strange.
14:12	Raynes	I think 'muffler' sounds strange, but my car still needs one.
14:17	danlei	It's not about the muffler, it's more akin to the question "is clojure for a loop"
14:17	danlei	but, enough about that.
14:18	stuartsierra	~for
14:18	clojurebot	for is not a loop
14:18	wthidden	Has the java static method interop syntax changed in 1.2.0? I'm using class/static method interop and the interperter is confusing this with a
14:18	danlei	:)
14:18	wthidden	a namespace expression
14:18	chouser	wthidden: nope, hasn't changed
14:19	stuartsierra	wthidden: that usually means you haven't imported the class name
14:19	stuartsierra	or you mistyped the class name
14:19	wthidden	hmm.. so (def dbconn (DBusConnection/getConnection 1)) should be valid, if DBusConnection is a valid class?
14:20	wthidden	with static method getConnection of course.
14:20	chouser	if you've imported DBusConnection, yes
14:23	wthidden	hmm it seems my (:import '(org.freedesktop.dbus.DBusConnection)) form on my namespace was not "importing" as i expected....
14:25	stuartsierra	wthidden: replace the last . with a space
14:25	stuartsierra	and remove the quote
14:26	danlei	I'm still wondering if the #:...{} representation of types will be made readable ... (throwing an error if the type is not defined)
14:26	wthidden	stuartsierra: yes.. i re-read the spec... quoting it is bad..
14:27	chouser	danlei: I think some mechanism for readable deftypes is planned, but I don't know if the syntax will be anything like what deftypes currently print
14:27	danlei	chouser: ok, thanks
14:27	stuartsierra	danlei: it opens a whole can of worms, though. literal objects, compile-time objects, ...
14:28	chouser	mmmm worms
14:28	wthidden	stuartsierra: hmmm if i replace the last '.' with a spec, i get a class loader error, but with the last '.' still there it does not complain.
14:28	wthidden	*space
14:28	danlei	stuartsierra: maybe that's a naive question, but couldn't it be handled like [] or {}?
14:28	stuartsierra	danlei: Maybe, but the compiler knowns what the class of [] should be.
14:29	stuartsierra	danlei: If the compiler encounters #:... or whatever, it has to create an instance of a totally unknown class.
14:29	stuartsierra	Probably doable, just tricky.
14:29	danlei	stuartsierra: since the compiler in lisps is part of the language, is that a problem?
14:30	stuartsierra	dunno
14:30	danlei	I haven't thought through the implications, I'm just asking
14:32	Chousuke	you mean the reader. hm
14:34	danlei	reader sees #:Foo{:x 1} and calls (Foo 1), compiler compiles it like anything else?
14:35	Chousuke	something like that.
14:36	chouser	is there really no way to implement my own IKeywordLookup with deftype?
14:37	chouser	or even ILookup?
14:39	chouser	anyway, reify is fine, but using it to close over 3 values appears to take 60% longer than closing over 1 value.
14:39	rhickey_	(deftype T [] clojure.lang.ILookup (valAt [k] :foo))
14:39	rhickey_	(:fred (T))
14:39	danlei	is there javadoc online for the clojure classes and interfaces implemented in java?
14:42	chouser	rhickey_: ok, thanks. That works for me too, but I'm getting a java.lang.ClassFormatError: Duplicate interface name in my real code.
14:43	programble	hello all o/
14:43	programble	i have a question:
14:45	programble	say i have 2 sequences (right term?), and i want to create one sequence out of these
14:45	programble	say
14:45	programble	'(1 2 3)
14:45	programble	and
14:45	programble	'(3 4 5)
14:45	programble	and i want '(1 2 3 3 4 5)
14:45	danlei	(into [1 2 3] [4 5])
14:45	programble	thanks
14:46	programble	wait...
14:46	programble	i actually have
14:47	chouser	oh, my deftype was macro-generated and I had (valAt ...). Using (~'valAt ...) fixes it.
14:47	programble	im trying to implement quicksort as a beginner exercise
14:47	programble	so really i need
14:47	programble	to create a sequence/list/whatever from a list, a number and another list
14:48	chouser	,(concat [1 2 3] [4] [5 6 7])
14:48	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 6 7)
14:48	programble	ah
15:02	dakrone	is there a (distinct ...) for hash-maps that filters by key? or should I just manually do it
15:02	hiredman	uh, what?
15:03	dakrone	something like (distinct {:a 1 :a 2}) -> {:a 1}
15:03	dakrone	throw out all recurring keys
15:03	hiredman	hash maps can't have recuring keys
15:04	programble	lol
15:04	dakrone	,(keys {:a 1 :a 2})
15:04	clojurebot	(:a :a)
15:04	hiredman	that is not a hash map
15:04	hiredman	and it is operator error
15:05	hiredman	array maps don't check for duplicate keys for performance reasons, but the behaviour of duplicate keys is undefined
15:05	Chousuke	,(apply hash-map '(:a 1 :a 2))
15:05	clojurebot	{:a 2}
15:05	Chousuke	at least that works :)
15:05	dakrone	you're right, I was assuming (into {} ...) would put duplicates in, it doesn't
15:05	chouser	(into {} {:a 1 :a 2})
15:05	chouser	,(into {} {:a 1 :a 2})
15:05	clojurebot	{:a 2}
15:06	dakrone	thanks
15:07	dakrone	hiredman: if it threw an exception, would the preferred usage be to wrap (into ...) with a try/catch if we wanted it to remove duplicates?
15:08	hiredman	dakrone: don't use map literals with duplicate keys
15:09	hiredman	unless you try hard, that is the only way to produce a map with duplicate keys
15:09	chouser	hiredman: does it check only at read time?
15:09	hiredman	wrapping in a try/catch would not catch the exception, because the reader would throw the exception
15:09	hiredman	chouser: yes
15:09	hiredman	it doesn't touch array map
15:09	chouser	,{3 :a (+ 1 2) :b}
15:09	clojurebot	{3 :a, 3 :b}
15:10	hiredman	mm
15:10	hiredman	that is unfortunate
15:10	dakrone	so, I have a list like (["bobby" 1/3] ["fire" 1/2] ["truck" 1] ["city" 1/2] ["truck" 1] ["state" 1/2] ["colorado" 1/3]) that I'm collapsing into a {}, how would I get around that then?
15:11	dakrone	map (distinct? val) over all of it and filter it before?
15:11	hiredman	get around what?
15:11	chouser	what do you want it to do? does (into {} your-seq) not do what you want?
15:12	dakrone	duplicate keys, I thought you were saying it would throw an exception since there are 2 occurrences of the "truck" key?
15:12	kotarak	hiredman: chouser: comes from the fact, that the reader makes a map containing "3" and "(+ 1 2)" as keys. The + call is not evaluated by the reader.
15:12	dakrone	chouser: no, (into {} ..) works great, I'm trying to understand if hiredman's change would affect it
15:12	hiredman	kotarak: I think we both know that
15:13	chouser	dakrone: hiredman has a non-standard patch that throws exceptions. But it wouldn't throw in your case, and won't be applied to clojure anyway.
15:13	chouser	dakrone: ie, you're safe.
15:13	hiredman	chouser: oh, your words are like razors to my wounded heart
15:13	rads	is there a way to get ring/compojure to auto reload files rails-style?
15:14	dakrone	chouser: okay, thanks for the clarification
15:14	chouser	hiredman: :-) sorry.
15:14	chouser	just being realistic here.
15:15	hiredman	clojurebot: ticket #87
15:15	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/y92lmv8, :summary "GC Issue 83: PersistentArrayMap trust the reader (map literals) too much", :status :test, :priority :low, :created-on "2009-06-17T20:36:09Z"}
15:15	kotarak	rads: the reload-middleware delivered with ring?
15:15	hiredman	well, my patch also throws a nicer exception for {:a}
15:15	chouser	hiredman: oh yeah, I keep forgetting about that ticket.
15:15	hiredman	,{:a}
15:15	clojurebot	java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1
15:16	rads	kotarak: looks good, thanks
15:19	jasapp	who works at sentry data systems here?
15:20	chouser	jasapp: I do
15:20	jasapp	ahh, that's right.
15:20	jasapp	I've got an interview with them tomorrow
15:20	chouser	jasapp: applying for a job?
15:21	chouser	excellent!
15:21	jasapp	I think I'm talking to Ben Mahan, and Cyrus Keck
15:22	jasapp	roughly, how many developers do they employ?
15:23	programble	i cant get the clojure REPL to work with jline.
15:24	programble	it gives me a ClassNotFound clojure.main
15:24	programble	i am runnign the command java -cp ~/Stuff/clojure/jline-0_9_5.jar:~/Stuff/clojure/clojure-1.1.0/clojure.jar jline.ConsoleRunner clojure.main
15:25	chouser	jasapp: about 20 developers I think, not including technical analysts and other technical folk.
15:26	jasapp	interesting, that's good to know
15:27	chouser	programble: are you on a unix?
15:27	chouser	oh, you must be. your problem is with the ~, but I'd recommend just using rlwrap instead
15:27	programble	chouser: yes
15:27	programble	...
15:27	programble	explain
15:28	chouser	java classpath doesn't support ~
15:28	programble	huh
15:28	programble	it seems to support one ~ though
15:28	programble	because
15:28	chouser	well, your shell is expanding the first one
15:28	programble	ah
15:28	programble	so, whats rlwrap?
15:28	chouser	people seem to have better results with rlwrap though. it's a separate program.
15:29	chouser	rlwrap java -cp :~/Stuff/clojure/clojure-1.1.0/clojure.jar clojure.main
15:29	chouser	but skip that :
15:29	programble	k thanks
15:30	programble	great, it works :)
15:30	clojurebot	twitteronia is where shaq lives
15:41	rads	is there a way to get ring's reload middleware to reload a namespace and all of it's child namespaces?
15:49	arohner	rads: you can use (require 'foo :reload-all) . That works in general, I don't know if it will work with ring
15:50	arohner	but I use it all the time on compojure
15:50	arohner	that reloads 'foo, and everything required in foo. It won't necessarily reload foo.bar unless foo requires foo.bar
15:54	rads	arohner: turns out ring does the same thing but with just :reload. I made a new fn that uses :reload-all instead and it works fine
15:56	rads	although it is kinda slow since it reloads everything, not just my code. might just be best to add all of my namespaces
15:59	programble	is there an equivalent of haskell's zipWith in clojure?
15:59	dakrone	programble: (reduce ...)
15:59	dakrone	,(reduce + [1 2 3])
15:59	clojurebot	6
16:00	hiredman	dakrone: I don't think so
16:00	hiredman	programble: map takes multiple collections
16:00	dakrone	is that not what zipWith does?
16:00	hiredman	dakrone: nope
16:00	the-kenny	dakrone: Isn't that foldl?
16:00	hiredman	reduce is a fold
16:00	kotarak	dakrone: I think reduce is foldl or foldr, can't remember those
16:00	hiredman	,(map + [1 2] [3 4])
16:00	dakrone	hiredman: okay, I'm wrong, sorry programble
16:00	clojurebot	(4 6)
16:01	programble	zipWith takes a function and two lists, the function is called with the first item of the first list and the first item of the second list, etc
16:01	programble	oh, map works
16:01	programble	nvm
16:01	hiredman	right
16:01	kotarak	programble: even with more lists
16:01	kotarak	,(map vector [1 2 3] [ 4 5 6] [ 6 7 8])
16:01	clojurebot	([1 4 6] [2 5 7] [3 6 8])
16:05	programble	how can i convert int to char and back?
16:05	programble	like a -> 97
16:05	hiredman	(char 97)
16:05	Raynes	,(char 97)
16:05	clojurebot	\a
16:05	programble	and back?
16:05	Raynes	hiredman: I win.
16:05	hiredman	,(int \a)
16:05	clojurebot	97
16:05	Raynes	(int \a)
16:05	Raynes	You got that one. :(
16:07	programble	hrm...
16:08	programble	and how can i go to and from a /string/ and int
16:08	programble	like
16:08	programble	between string and list of ints
16:09	hiredman	,(String. (make-array Byte/TYPE [97 99 100]))
16:09	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Character
16:09	icemaze	Hi everyone. Can anyone help me with a Java-clojure problem?
16:09	hiredman	,(String. (into=array Byte/TYPE [97 99 100]))
16:09	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: into=array in this context
16:09	hiredman	,(String. (into-array Byte/TYPE [97 99 100]))
16:09	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: argument type mismatch
16:09	hiredman	BLEH
16:10	hiredman	,(String. (into-array Byte/TYPE (map byte [97 99 100])))
16:10	clojurebot	"acd"
16:10	icemaze	Eheh, I see you already have a lot of those ;)
16:10	chouser	,(apply str (map char [97 99 100]))
16:10	clojurebot	"acd"
16:10	chouser	,(map int "acd")
16:10	clojurebot	(97 99 100)
16:11	Raynes	chouser: Beat you to it in another channel. :p
16:11	programble	lol
16:11	programble	i answered my own question actually
16:11	rads	is there a way to restart a jetty server running in a swank repl without restarting the whole repl?
16:14	icemaze	i'm having a problem loading java classes, can anyone give me tips on how to solve this problem?
16:15	icemaze	i have a .class file, which is generated by ANTLR, and i'd like to instantiate the class inside it
16:15	Raynes	"My computer broke. How do I fix it?" :>
16:15	icemaze	(I'm using the enclojure plugin under netbeans, it this helps)
16:15	nDuff	icemaze, ...and does your classpath include an appropriate entry?
16:16	icemaze	This is a good question: I think Netbeans adds the project's directory in the classpath but I'm not 100% sure. What can I do to verify this?
16:17	icemaze	Maybe Netbeans does so for pure Java projects only
16:19	kotarak	icemaze: try (System/getProperty "java.class.path") in the Repl. This should give you a clue, what is on the classpath.
16:19	icemaze	Thanks. I'll try it.
16:20	icemaze	Yes: "...../build/classes", that's where the .class is (this is under a "clojure.lang.LazySeq", hope it's ok)
16:22	hiredman	what?
16:22	clojurebot	what is short for ,(doc ...)
16:22	icemaze	(The error I get when compiling is: "Unable to resolve classname: TLexer")
16:22	programble	huh
16:22	hiredman	what do you mean: under a "clojure.lang.LazySeq"
16:22	programble	what zip
16:23	programble	no?
16:23	clojurebot	da da king of the road
16:23	hiredman	zip?
16:23	clojurebot	zipper is http://clojure.org/other_libraries#toc5
16:23	hiredman	clojurebot: knock it off
16:23	clojurebot	Clojure ranked #21 on 8/14/2009
16:23	programble	wtf?
16:24	icemaze	yes, it doesn't make much sense. Wait, I'll copy what I get:
16:24	dakrone	is it possible to define a multimethod using regex for an argument as the dispatch? if so, can someone point me to an example of what that looks like?
16:24	icemaze	"[some normal paths]:clojure.lang.LazySeq@3081b84b:#{#<ClassPath /usr/share/clojure/clojure.jar....."
16:25	icemaze	maybe the enclojure plugin is messing this up
16:25	hiredman	sounds right
16:25	hiredman	I mean
16:25	hiredman	yes, the plugin is messing that up
16:25	icemaze	mh, ok
16:26	icemaze	I'll report a bug then
16:26	hiredman	it looks like it is relying on very old behaviour of .toString on lazy-seqs
16:26	hiredman	which changed eons ago
16:26	icemaze	that's strange: I donwloaded the plugin from github, it's the jan-2010 version
16:26	hiredman	shrug
16:27	icemaze	thank you for your help!
16:29	hiredman	hmm
16:30	hiredman	well, even with the old .toString behavior you wouldn't get a valid classpath
16:32	icemaze	My environment is a little odd: arch linux + Netbeans 6.8 + clojure v1.1.0.
16:32	icemaze	If it was a common bug, I would already be reported.
16:33	hiredman	you'd be surprised
16:58	dakrone	,(contains? ["foo" "bar" "baz"] "foo")
16:58	clojurebot	false
16:59	dakrone	what's the right way to see if a vector has a string in it?
16:59	Chousuke	,(some #{"foo"} ["foo" "bar"])
16:59	clojurebot	"foo"
16:59	hiredman	,(doc contains?)
16:59	clojurebot	"([coll key]); Returns true if key is present in the given collection, otherwise returns false. Note that for numerically indexed collections like vectors and Java arrays, this tests if the numeric key is within the range of indexes. 'contains?' operates constant or logarithmic time; it will not perform a linear search for a value. See also 'some'."
16:59	Chousuke	that's one way
17:01	dakrone	is there a method that returns boolean? otherwise I can wrap (if (some #{} []) true false)
17:02	chouser	why do you need a boolean?
17:02	dakrone	chouser: passing into a java method that can't reflect if it's not boolean
17:02	Chousuke	dakrone: you can use boolean to cast it to one
17:02	Chousuke	,(boolean "foo")
17:02	clojurebot	true
17:03	brandonw	interesting how contains? doesn't work on strings. i thought it recursively generates a set
17:03	dakrone	Chousuke: cool, that does it, thanks!
17:03	Chousuke	brandonw: it doesn't test for membership, it tests whether a collection contains a key
17:03	hiredman	brandonw: did you read the docstring?
17:03	Chousuke	oops
17:03	chouser	,(.contains ["foo" "bar"] "foo")
17:03	clojurebot	true
17:04	Chousuke	hm
17:04	dakrone	it's confusing to share the same name as the java method
17:04	Chousuke	yes it is :P
17:04	hiredman	contains? does work on strings
17:04	chouser	,(contains? #{"foo" "bar"} "foo")
17:04	hiredman	,(contains? "foo" 1)
17:04	clojurebot	true
17:04	clojurebot	true
17:04	chouser	there. now we're fully muddled.
17:06	dakrone	hiredman: does (contains? "foo" 1) work because it does something like (get "foo" 1)?
17:06	ska2342	contains? is broken by design. It's behaviour is documented (with the exception of lists) but it does not do what the name suggests under all conditions. Nah, me no friend of contains? ;-)
17:06	hiredman	dakrone: no
17:06	dakrone	hiredman: how does (contains? "foo" 1) work?
17:06	Chousuke	~contains?
17:06	kotarak	,(some #{false} [true false true])
17:06	clojurebot	contains? is for checking whether a collection has a value for a given key. If you want to find out whether a value exists in a Collection (in linear time!), use the java method .contains
17:06	clojurebot	nil
17:06	hiredman	(> (count x) n)
17:06	kotarak	Beware the boolean.
17:06	hiredman	where x is the string and n is the number
17:07	Chousuke	but yeah, it's horribly named :P
17:07	chouser	I think the relationship to 'get' is sound.
17:07	chouser	,(get "foo" 1)
17:07	clojurebot	\o
17:08	ska2342	chouser: I think most people would expect (contains? "foo" \o) to work. Not?
17:08	dakrone	conceptually that is very difficult to wrap my head around
17:08	brandonw	ohhh it was distinct? i was thinking of
17:09	brandonw	not contains?
17:09	Chousuke	dakrone: contains? would make more sense as has-value-for-key? or something
17:09	chouser	if you pretend 'contains?' is named 'has-key?', your instincts may serve you better.
17:09	dakrone	chouser/Chousuke: yea, those make more sense to my brain
17:10	dakrone	thanks
17:10	ska2342	chouser: what about lists? ;-)
17:10	Chousuke	it's probably the number one faq about Clojure. besides "how do I get slime to work?" or something :P
17:10	chouser	ska2342: holds ok, I think. do lists have keys? no. so contains? always returns false.
17:11	ska2342	chouser: OK, got me. Nevertheless, I'm not convinced. Whatever...
17:12	chouser	not convinced that 'has-key?' is a better name? or that the functionality of 'contains?' should exist at all?
17:12	drewr	I always do (when (:foo m) ...) or similar
17:13	drewr	don't think I've ever used contains?
17:13	chouser	yeah, it's hardly ever needed, except when you need to detect keys that have nil or false values.
17:13	ska2342	chouser: has-key would be a better name, the functionality as expected by users should exists with the given name. However the distinction between lists and vectors and other iterables or instances of Counted feels weird
17:13	bhenry	what would you use if you really wanted to know if a string contained a substring?
17:13	chouser	even then 'find' is often better.
17:14	hiredman	clojurebot: jdoc String
17:14	kotarak	ska2342: does performance promises help here? O(1) on vectors vs. O(n) on lists?
17:15	hiredman	bhenry: I would read the javadoc for String
17:15	chouser	or use clojure.contrib.string
17:16	kotarak	drewr: your approach works if you can guarantee that there are no nils and booleans in your collections. If you can't, you have to (when (contains? m :foo) ...)
17:16	chouser	or (when-let [[_ v] (find m :foo)] ...)
17:17	ska2342	kotarak: no. contains takes special care of several counted things (e.g. String) but not Counted and PersistentList extends Counted so it's O(1). Or am I mistaken here?
17:17	drewr	kotarak, chouser: usually when I have a nil as value I still want the predicate to be false
17:17	technomancy	is there anything like the namespace function that returns the namespace itself instead of the name of the namespace?
17:17	technomancy	wow, that was a mouthful =)
17:18	dnolen	well looking the source of core.clj contains? is used 12 times. Source also points out that it searches the collection in constant time.
17:18	kotarak	,(the-ns 'sandbox)
17:18	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
17:19	technomancy	kotarak: the namespace function takes a symbol and returns its namespace
17:19	technomancy	rather than taking a namespace name
17:19	technomancy	,(namespace reduce)
17:19	chouser	,(the-ns (symbol (namespace `map))) ;-(
17:19	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$reduce__4509 cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named
17:19	clojurebot	#<Namespace clojure.core>
17:19	dnolen	,(find-ns 'user)
17:19	clojurebot	#<Namespace user>
17:20	dnolen	,(find-ns (symbol "user"))
17:20	clojurebot	#<Namespace user>
17:20	chouser	technomancy: symbols and keywords only know their namespace name. they don't actually point to the namespace object, I think.
17:20	bsteuber	,(namespace 'reduce)
17:20	clojurebot	nil
17:20	technomancy	chouser: I see. feels a bit like an implementation detail leaking out, but I'm just being extra picky.
17:20	bsteuber	,(namespace `reduce)
17:20	clojurebot	"clojure.core"
17:20	Chousuke	symbols are just names
17:20	technomancy	calling (the-ns (symbol )) is not a big deal
17:20	Chousuke	,(namespace 'foo.bar/blah)
17:20	clojurebot	"foo.bar"
17:21	Chousuke	the namespace doesn't have to actually exist :P
17:21	technomancy	Chousuke: ah, good point. that's a good explanation
17:21	kotarak	chouser: ad find... what's the difference to get?
17:21	technomancy	I find that property to be very useful in other situations.
17:22	chouser	find returns a key/value pair, or nil if not found
17:22	kotarak	ah. it returns the map entry.
17:22	kotarak	k
17:25	hiredman	,(doc the-ns)
17:25	clojurebot	"([x]); If passed a namespace, returns it. Else, when passed a symbol, returns the namespace named by it, throwing an exception if not found."
17:42	Raynes	Shouldn't args surrounded in double quotes on the command-line be treated as a single argument? Calling a clojure application with "meow meowz" results in two args instead of one. I'm not sure that should be expected behavior.
17:44	Raynes	Most other languages treat arguments surrounded in double quotes as a single argument.
17:49	chouser	Raynes: windows?
17:49	Raynes	No.
17:49	Raynes	programble: Not windows, right?
17:50	programble	...no
17:50	programble	i feel dirty after the mention of windows
17:50	Raynes	:p
17:51	Raynes	chouser: This isn't a bug, is it?
18:07	pcapriotti	is it possible to recursively define a lazy-seq in clojure?
18:08	pcapriotti	something like the following haskell: fib = 0 : 1 : map (uncurry (+)) (zip fib (tail fib))
18:11	pcapriotti	the-kenny: that would be in clojure: (def fib (concat [0 1] (map + fib (rest fib))))
18:12	pcapriotti	but fib is unbound inside the declaration of fib, so that doesn't work
18:15	the-kenny	pcapriotti: hm.. not sure if it's helpful, but fibs is defined in contrib as: (map first (iterate (fn [[a b]] [b (+ a b)]) [0 1]))
18:17	pcapriotti	the-kenny: yeah, that was just an example... of course in this case there's no need to define it recursively
18:25	danlei	pcapriotti: (def fib (lazy-cat [0 1] (map + fib (rest fib))))
18:28	bsteuber	danlei: nice
18:28	bsteuber	so lazy-seq does the trick, as fib is defined when the body is finally evaluated
18:28	pcapriotti	danlei: oh, cool, lazy-cat does the right thing
18:28	programble	my cat is lazy
18:28	programble	sorry, just needed to make that joke
18:30	rickmode	I've got a newbie question: I'm starting to hack a compojure app. I started the app using lein new my-app. Now, do I compile the hello world and use slime-connect in Emacs, or can I somehow use the SLIME in Emacs? I'm trying to do the latter but my SLIME (fired up with M-x slime) doesn't know about compojure.
18:30	pcapriotti	now, is it possible to do that without creating a global binding?
18:30	pcapriotti	like: (let [fib ??])
18:31	bsteuber	rickmode: swank-clojure-project is your friend
18:31	bsteuber	or lein-swank
18:32	rickmode	bsteuber: OK, so using M-x slime is just for fooling around, but when working on a project you connect your Emacs with the running project via M-x slime-connect. Do I have that right?
18:32	rickmode	(I know it works, I'm asking the best-practice)
18:32	the-kenny	rickmode: Or you fire the repl for the specific project up in emacs with M-x swank-clojure-project
18:32	bsteuber	yeah - though you also have M-x swank-clojure-project
18:32	bsteuber	too slow :)
18:33	the-kenny	I personally use swank-clojure-project, so I don't have to remember port-numbers etc.
18:33	bsteuber	me 2
18:34	bsteuber	also, it is just one single step compared to starting the server by hand and connecting from emacs
18:34	dnolen	rickmode: M-x slime, M-x slime-connect are both for real work. M-x slime-connect is more useful in conjunction with lein swank (you don't have to configure your classpath)
18:34	powr-toc	I tend to use a shell script to start a jvm with my vm settings and classpath... as you'll probably have to specify this in production anyways
18:34	powr-toc	then connect with slime-connect
18:35	bsteuber	true, slime-connect gives you more options
18:35	bsteuber	but as long as I don't have a reason to do so I'll stick with the most lazy version
18:35	rickmode	OK so I've created my app with lein new my-app. Next is what? (I'm missing a step - using M-x swank-connect-project is polling for something...)
18:36	bsteuber	you can look in your inferior-lisp buffer to see the error
18:36	powr-toc	bsteuber: fine advice :-)
18:36	bsteuber	but probably you need to run lein deps
18:36	bsteuber	to get clojure and contrib
18:37	bsteuber	also you need to add the swank dependancy to your project.clj
18:38	bsteuber	e.g. :dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.1.0-SNAPSHOT"]]
18:38	bsteuber	dammit, my IRC client always gives me a smiley for :d
18:39	programble	lol?
18:40	rickmode	bsteuber: OK I got the dev-dependency, and it's still polling. So when I fire up my Emacs, I don't have an inferior-lisp or slime. Do I need to fire up M-x slime first?
18:40	bsteuber	by the point it's polling you should have that buffer
18:41	bsteuber	maybe rerun lein deps after adding the dev-dep?
18:42	rickmode	bsteuber: heh - it was there... I'm still Emacs challenged (my foray into Lisp started just over a month ago as I started reading PCL, following along with Aquamacs/SLIME/SBCL)
18:44	bsteuber	I'm using emacs for some years now and still don't have clue about most stuff ;)
18:44	bsteuber	functional programmers are just too lazy xD
18:44	dakrone	too much emacs in here :), any other vim users get a useable folding method around (defn ...) they care to share?
18:46	rickmode	bsteuber: i've spent the last couple months looking for my ultimate web dev environment rather than pick something easy and go with it. That's how lazy i am.
18:47	rickmode	So I"m getting issues in my inferior-lisp: Could not locate swank/swank__init.class or swank/swank.clj on classpath: (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
18:47	rickmode	(BTW: where do we paste in this channel?)
18:48	bsteuber	and I spent a year trying to invent my own lisp instead of reading about clojure :)
18:48	rickmode	egad... you aren't pg in disguise are you?
18:48	Maddas	dakrone: I use vi emulation in Emacs instead ;)
18:48	bsteuber	I guess most use github gists, but I guess you're free to do what you like
18:48	bsteuber	lol
18:49	bsteuber	rickmode: ok so you're sure there's a swank-clojure jar in lib?
18:51	hiredman	lisppaste8 is a bot that used to help with pastebin stuff, but it seems to be dead
18:51	bsteuber	but no, I'm not pg lol
18:51	dnolen	rickmode: compojure is pretty easy and certainly no worse going than setting up and configuring a working python web development environment or even a PHP one.
18:51	Raynes	lisppaste sucks anyways.
18:53	hiredman	it had irc integration
18:53	hiredman	I dunno of any other pastebin that does
18:54	rickmode	dnolen: I agree. I noodled with Python and Django for a bit. Liked it. Looked at Ruby on Rails. There seems to be one way for library writers to create libraries (with all the monkey patching and such) and another for mortals to use Ruby. I didnt' like that. Tried CL - loved the language, then wasted a few weeks building a web stack. (I ranted about this on my blog.) Went back to Django and... decided to look at Clojure. I had discarded the Clojure route
18:54	rickmode	initially because of the JVM dependency.
18:55	danlei	rickmode: link to that rant?
18:55	bsteuber	me two - having to use Java all the time at university kind of gave me a trauma
18:56	bsteuber	so I didn't want a lisp that is connected to it somehow
18:56	rickmode	danlei: http://rickmode.com/2010/02/21/common-lisp-pain/
18:56	powr-toc	rickmode: the JVM is a pretty awesome piece of kit
18:56	danlei	rickmode: thanks
18:56	lancepantz	is there a way i can remove one of the into #{} functions in this? http://www.pastie.org/850851
18:57	rickmode	I started with Clojure Friday night. I was totally sold after the first video on blip.tv.
18:57	lancepantz	i'm using the filter to compact nil values
18:57	dnolen	rickmode: at first JVM dependency seems lame. But then you realize there's a quite lot of good software written for the JVM. Also that it's the only thing remotely near the speed of C++ without the suckiness (IMO).
18:58	hiredman	lancepantz: for has a lot of keyword modifiers
18:58	hiredman	maybe :when or :while
18:59	dnolen	except for maybe Haskell, but I'm attached REPL style development, and not convinced about types.
18:59	bsteuber	actually, having to deal with some aborted c++ project for a few months made me love Java again
18:59	rickmode	dnolen: well the problem in java is that there is so much boilerplate that to keep things anywhere near DRY you need a library or framework. So then there's the framework explosion. The mess gets so big Ant can't keep up. So then there's maven. Ugh. Well at least I can code happily now and cherry pick the best bits. If Clojure really takes off, hopefully the crufy java bits will fall away.
18:59	bsteuber	well, not love, respect
19:00	lancepantz	hiredman: can i use them to change the returned datastructure though?
19:00	powr-toc	rickmode: I think clojure has a good chance of avoiding the whole framework composability problem... It seems like a return to simple API's
19:00	danlei	rickmode: feel your pain (regarding cl). I think it's best to always check out heads by hand, and not use asdf-install at all (am not a friend of clbuild either)
19:00	hiredman	:when (not (nil? v))
19:00	hiredman	or just :when v
19:01	rickmode	bsteuber: Ya... C++ is even harder. The object-orgy is worse there than java. Actually I was against Java from the beginning because only the compiler writers could write something like string contatention ala "foo" + "bar". Tha'ts lame. But at this point I appreciate what Java got write. The inner classes are cool (but closures are better). The gc is cool. The packaging system is really good.
19:01	hiredman	or just remove the inner into
19:01	lancepantz	i see
19:03	rickmode	daniel: My biggest problem is that I would look at, say UCW.. and no docs at all. Then Weblocks - looks really good, but then I can't get 3 of 4 demos to run due to busted dependencies. Anyway CL does feel like stepping back to the early 90's. The library ecosystem is a bit of a wasteland. I want to stand on the backs of giants, and that isn't possible as a new CL coder.
19:03	bsteuber	rickmode: platform independence (more or less) is great
19:03	Raynes	rickmode: That was one hell of a rant. :>
19:04	bsteuber	the java guis always said they wanted to drag the c++ crowd halfway to lisp - and I thing they did a good job concerning the environment, gc etc.
19:04	bsteuber	so clojure is the next logical step
19:05	rickmode	ugh gotta run - i'll be back with more questions later... thanks for the help so far guys
19:05	powr-toc	personally I think Java did a lot of good for the industry... It popularised garbage collection, and made VM's acceptable... As a language it was pretty unambitious, but it did a lot of things well... Now Clojure makes the JVM awesome.
19:06	danlei	rickmode: I absolutely agree regarding documentation/libraries, but as far as the language itself is concerned: There's a lot to learn there. Even if there are warts and things which feel really old nowadays (e.g. in the pathname system), it's one of my favorite languages. Many of those things, clojure gets right, but some things I miss from CL.
19:06	lancepantz	hiredman: got it, thanks for your help
19:07	danlei	rickmode: so I'm all for learning both of them ;)
19:07	bsteuber	I don't miss much from CL
19:08	danlei	well, I said "some" ;)
19:08	Raynes	I see nothing in CL that I would miss if I learned it.
19:08	bsteuber	but I had been a haskell convert before finding clojure :)
19:08	danlei	Raynes: condition system, debugger ...
19:09	bsteuber	danlei: but those will hopefully be possible in clojure with the new &env stuff, not?
19:10	danlei	bsteuber: clojure is young, and I think those things will be done in the future. I've great expectations ... I mean, it started in 2007, right?
19:10	danlei	that's just 3 years
19:11	Raynes	2, actually.
19:11	danlei	or 2, yesw
19:11	bsteuber	what I miss in clojure is static type inference
19:12	bsteuber	in haskell, this really made up for 80% of my tests
19:12	danlei	bsteuber: have a look at Qi or typed scheme
19:13	danlei	I'm more of a dynamic typing guy (but still, I check out haskell ... slowly ;)
19:13	bsteuber	I think dynamic typing with a type-time inference engine would be awesome
19:13	bsteuber	but that could be done on top of clojure
19:14	bsteuber	the term type-time might be confusing :)
19:14	bsteuber	but I will have a look at Qi and typed scheme
19:17	danlei	bsteuber: I think if you're coming from haskell, you'll prefer Qi, last time I checked typed Scheme, there was no type inference
19:17	bsteuber	qi looks nice
19:17	bsteuber	but I want it on top of clojure :)
19:17	danlei	:)
19:20	bsteuber	btw. did a standard prolog-in-clojure evolve yet?
19:21	bsteuber	should not be hard with all the CL examples
19:21	powr-toc	bsteuber: There's a datalog implementation in contrib
19:22	dmiles_afk	CL in cojure comming soon?
19:22	bsteuber	powr-toc: the difference was depth vs breadth first, right?
19:23	bsteuber	between prolog and datalog, I mean
19:23	powr-toc	bsteuber: Not entirely sure... I've not had a chance to look at datalog
19:23	bsteuber	dmiles_afk: why would you want CL in clojure? there are already CL implementations for the JVM
19:24	bsteuber	so many thing I should look at :)
19:25	dmiles_afk	ah yes indeed.. i just wondering
19:26	dmiles_afk	i seen a few lisps on jvms.. but would be nice since people seem to be liking clojure alot.. and to do both at the same time w/o marshalling would be good
19:29	bsteuber	I guess it would be a hard job to get the interop right without much marshalling
19:30	bsteuber	but I don't care anyways - left CL behind forever :)
19:31	bsteuber	I'll need to get some sleep now - have fun everybody
19:42	rickmode	so I got swank-connect-project working. I had to add [swank-clojure "1.1.0"] to my :dependencies. it didn't work as a :dev-dependency as that doesn't cause the swank-clojure*.jar file to be copied to the lib directory. Is this right?
19:42	rickmode	er... sorry I mean swank-clojure-project (not swank-connect-project)
19:54	Raynes	Damn freenode and it's security measures.
20:32	zaphar_ps	is there some reason that printing to stdout wouldn't show up in a clojure app?
20:32	zaphar_ps	it works from repl
20:32	zaphar_ps	but when I run the app nothing shows up on the terminal
20:32	zaphar_ps	I'm assuming out has been changed somehow?
20:32	programble	zaphar_ps: try adding (flush) after your println or printf or whatever
20:34	technomancy	rickmode: putting swank-clojure in dependencies will work, but if another project relies on yours it will include it
20:34	technomancy	rickmode: putting it in dev-dependencies should work; I've never heard of that failing to get copied to lib/
20:34	zaphar_ps	programble: nope still no dice
20:35	programble	i dunno, im just guessing lol
20:35	programble	im a clojure n00b
20:35	technomancy	zaphar_ps: I have had issues with out not being bound correctly when using clojure.main -e
20:35	technomancy	not sure what the solution is, sorry. =\
20:35	zaphar_ps	hrmmm
20:36	zaphar_ps	this isn't using clojure.main specifically
20:36	zaphar_ps	it's using my own main method
20:36	zaphar_ps	I'll add some logging to see if I can see what out is bound to
20:39	tomoj	have there already been "I heard you like * so I put clojure in your clojure so you can * while you *"s?
20:40	programble	lawl
20:40	tomoj	with a picture of rich talking about cinc
20:40	programble	I heard you like recursion so I put clojure in your clojure so you can recurse while you recurse?
20:40	technomancy	"so you can lazily persist while you lazily persist."
20:44	zaphar_ps	it looks like it's bound to something
20:44	zaphar_ps	is there anyway to tell if it's bound to stdout or not?
20:46	hiredman	,(identical? System/out out)
20:46	clojurebot	false
20:47	zaphar_ps	this is incredibly frustrating
20:48	hiredman	how are you starting the app?
20:49	hiredman	what happens if you (.println System/out "foo") ?
20:50	zaphar_ps	hiredman: java -cp foo.jar foo.class <args>
20:50	zaphar_ps	and doing (.println System/out "foo")
20:50	zaphar_ps	also has no output to the terminal
20:50	zaphar_ps	it's weird
20:50	hiredman	are you sure the code you think is being run is being run?
20:50	zaphar_ps	logging indicates it is
20:51	zaphar_ps	oh wait... doh!!!
20:51	zaphar_ps	I'm using a wrapper script and capturing the output
20:51	hiredman	:(
21:00	rickmode	technomancy: swank-clojure gets copied iff it is before leiningen/lein-swank
21:18	jcromartie	what the heck is this guy talking about when he says "functions are inherently non-deterministic"
21:18	jcromartie	in regards to FP
21:20	hiredman	opposite date
21:21	hiredman	day
21:26	jcromartie	http://rebelscience.blogspot.com/2007/10/half-century-of-crappy-computing.html
21:28	hiredman	jcromartie: I think if you read "procedure" for function
21:29	jcromartie	yeah but he specifically mentions "FP"
21:31	hiredman	are you talking about in the comments?
21:31	DeusExPikachu	I want to be able to manage launching "jobs" in different threads. What's the cool way to do this? So storing future objects in a map in a reference in the var mapped to symbol threads. Should I be using executors?
21:31	hiredman	executors are cool
21:32	DeusExPikachu	s/so/I am currently
21:32	jcromartie	hiredman: comments by the author
21:32	hiredman	shrug
21:35	rickmode	jcromartie: could be something related to real-time programming where you need predictable time guarantees? (Java/JVM languages can't be used for this sort of real-time stuff, AFAIK).
21:36	hiredman	it can, you just can't use the gc
21:36	jcromartie	yeah, I don't see how a pure function written in C would be non-deterministic
21:36	hiredman	no allocation
21:37	jcromartie	hmm
21:37	hiredman	I've heard tell of people tuning java apps to get them to that point
21:37	rickmode	jcromartie: in real-time stuff you can't just code such that you think it is deterministic, it needs to be formally provable
21:38	jcromartie	I see
21:38	rickmode	it's been a while since I heard of this stuff - i prolly have the details mixed up
21:38	rickmode	hiredman: ya i've heard there is a real-time version of java, but i'm pretty sure it isn't the usual sun jdk
21:42	DeusExPikachu	rickmode, or maybe hardware specific like for phones or azulsystems
21:43	gravity	Is there a way to define multiple vars in one call? Like let allows when you have multiple parameters in the argument list?
21:44	jcromartie	gravity: you mean like def them to the same thing?
21:45	gravity	jcromartie: Yes, exactly
21:58	jcromartie	gravity: well if you haven't done so yet, you could use a macro
21:58	jcromartie	but it's a strange question
22:04	zaphar_ps	gravity (let [foo "bar" bar foo bleh bar] ...)
22:04	gravity	jcromartie: Yeah, it's sort of a strange condition. I'm trying to figure out a way to restructure the idea so I don't need to do something so bizarre.
22:05	zaphar_ps	that sort of does what you want
22:05	zaphar_ps	unless you need it defined for the whole namespace
22:05	gravity	zaphar_ps: I'd like for things to be accessible outside the namespace, yeah.
22:05	gravity	It's for a complex data structure
22:05	zaphar_ps	ahh multiple nodes all sharing the same item?
22:06	gravity	Right
22:06	gravity	Or referencing the same item
22:06	zaphar_ps	couldn't use refs for that
22:06	gravity	In the simplest case, a graph with two nodes each linking to the other.
22:06	zaphar_ps	I mean couldn't you use refs for that
22:07	gravity	Don't I still need to def them?
22:07	jcromartie	no
22:08	zaphar_ps	no you couldn't? or no you don't need to def them?
22:08	zaphar_ps	:-)
22:10	zaphar_ps	actually I'm not sure refs would help either
22:18	brandonw	could anyone point out what i am doing wrong here? http://pastie.org/851077
22:18	brandonw	trying to make a lein plugin for nailgun that applies classpath. macros just own me at the moment, though.
22:19	brandonw	actually: http://pastie.org/851078 is what i last have tried
22:20	brandonw	unquoting addr-port when constructing the array to send to the main method of NGServer
22:25	hiredman	it says addr-port and you are just passing an ip address
22:25	hiredman	unquoting inside and an unquoted part is not going to work
22:25	brandonw	the arg is parsed in NGServer
22:25	brandonw	can be ip, port, or ip and port
22:26	brandonw	all as one arg
22:26	brandonw	oh right, i forgot to take the unquote off before the into-array
22:27	hiredman	what is the error?
22:27	brandonw	that's the hardest part: i'm not sure exactly how to debug something like this
22:27	brandonw	i create the jar, put it in another project's lib directory to test it
22:27	brandonw	it also has the nailgun dep specified
22:28	hiredman	if that is the case you may want to start smaller
22:28	brandonw	hold on, i screwed up a paren somewhere...
22:28	hiredman	working on code you can't debug is a bad idea
22:28	hiredman	a recipe for pain and frustration
22:29	brandonw	err
22:29	brandonw	nevermind, it works...
22:29	brandonw	i swear i had tried that combination before...
22:30	brandonw	that's pretty sweet :) i can actually contribute something now
22:30	brandonw	i'm sure a lein-nailgun plugin would be useful for vimclojure users
22:30	brandonw	that is, one that applies the project's classpath
22:36	jcromartie	I guess it's bad to use (decorate) in compojure with big chunks of routes?
22:36	jcromartie	like (defroutes foo ...) (decorate foo with-bar) (defroutes bat foo ...)
22:37	jcromartie	if foo is something like a login handler, the you can never use a 404 handler,right?
22:38	jcromartie	I mean with-bar
22:38	tomoj	why not?
22:38	jcromartie	if with-bar is something like with-account that returns an "unauthorized" response
22:38	tomoj	I'm not asking because I think you're wrong, I'm asking because I don't understand
22:38	tomoj	ah
22:38	tomoj	so, the 401 will come in instead of 404
22:38	jcromartie	yeah
22:38	tomoj	or the 401 will redirect to a login page
22:38	tomoj	instead of being a 401
22:39	jcromartie	right
22:39	tomoj	hmm
22:39	tomoj	have you seen webmachine?
22:39	jcromartie	nope
22:39	tomoj	I would like it if we had a webmachine in clojure
22:39	tomoj	http://bitbucket.org/justin/webmachine/wiki/BigHTTPGraph
22:40	tomoj	http://blog.therestfulway.com/2009/05/video-slideshow-introducing-webmachine.html
22:40	tomoj	I haven't used it
22:40	jcromartie	hm, yeah
22:40	tomoj	but my understanding is that it takes care of all the http details for you
22:40	tomoj	and lets you hook into any point in the http graph easily
22:40	tomoj	and hopefully in a sensible way so that you can do what you're wanting to do
22:41	tomoj	I think a set of clojure middleware could do that, maybe with some extra functions and macros
22:41	tomoj	er, compojure middleware
22:46	brandonw	hmm. not quite yet after all. the server seems to start okay, but vimclojure has trouble connecting to it
22:47	tomoj	didn't someone already work on a lein plugin for that?
22:48	brandonw	i don't know. i only see one lein plugin on clojars, and it doesn't apply the classpath at all
22:48	tomoj	have you seen this? http://lisp4fun.blogspot.com/2010/02/leiningen-and-vimclojure.html
22:49	brandonw	yes, but the way they apply the classpath is kind of hacky, and doesn't use lein
22:49	brandonw	well, not really hacky i guess
22:50	brandonw	it works and it won't ever fail
22:50	brandonw	a lein plugin would be a tiny bit easier, though (and more portable)
22:50	brandonw	and it is a good exercise in learning more about clojure :)
22:50	tomoj	well, good luck
22:51	tomoj	I got this idea to build a framework that turns chunks of clojure namespaces into a command line tool with an embedded repl
22:51	hiredman	clojure -> sh compiler!
22:52	cp2	clojure -> brainfuck
22:52	tomoj	yeah, but I don't want to bother with nailgun
22:52	tomoj	and the jvm startup time is too big
22:52	tomoj	I'm envisioning something more like irb or the mongodb js console
22:52	tomoj	but customizable with whatever code you want to use interactively
22:53	hiredman	that sounds ridiculous
22:53	tomoj	why?
22:53	clojurebot	why not?
22:54	tomoj	I admit my judgement is impaired
22:54	tomoj	the ec2 command line api tools are terrible, so I want an ec2 console with embedded clojure
23:07	brandonw	okay, got it working, but now i have to test clojure versions
23:07	brandonw	turns out, the lein plugin needed to have the clojure and clojure-contrib deps specified
23:08	brandonw	have to make sure that if i specify a different version than the plugin requires, that the different version is used
23:09	brandonw	kind of wondering if i am doing something wrong, though-- the lein-swank plugin didn't need to specify clojure versions. i assume that is because swank-clojure specifies them
23:12	brandonw	ah, the vimclojure jar i am using requires clojure 1.1 i think
23:13	brandonw	it seems kind of unstable to have swank-clojure and vimclojure not specify the version of clojure that they need
23:13	brandonw	what if the version you are using in your project is not compatible with the version required by the plugin?
23:35	fanatico	Any reason types don't support vararg-style constructors?
23:35	brandonw	hmm, how exactly does one contact a group owner on clojars?
23:41	dakrone	brandonw: good question, I've been searching github to hope they have the source up so I can send them a message
23:58	brandonw	does the version of clojure that swank-clojure requires force you to use that same version in your project?
23:59	Raynes	No.
23:59	tomoj	with lein repl, it does, doesn't it?
23:59	brandonw	how does it manage that?
23:59	Raynes	Yes.
23:59	tomoj	with emacs slime-connect, it doesn't