#clojure – 2010-02-12

2010-02-12

00:16	Jomyoot	is there a clojure SQL library that supports handling 2 DB connections simultaneously?
00:19	drewr	clojureql can do it
00:19	drewr	c.c.sql can do it if you're willing to dig into sql/internal.clj
00:25	Jomyoot	beter than contrib?
00:28	Jomyoot	drewr: what is your recommendation on SQL for Clojure?
00:28	Jomyoot	contrib does not handle 2 DB connections simultaneously
00:36	Jomyoot	drewr: are you tehre?
00:36	Jomyoot	drewr: is there references on how to do so with c.c.sql?
00:51	Jomyoot	drewr: u gone?
01:00	scgilardi	Jomyoot: I think c.c.sql's with-connection can do it. You would have one call nested within another. Something like: (with-connection db1 ...(let [i read...] (with-connection db2 (write i)...)))
01:01	Jomyoot	scgilardi: c.c.sql does not allow specifying connection as function parameter
01:01	Jomyoot	even if nested, it will probably use the inner one
01:02	Jomyoot	please note that i want to keep both connections open.
01:03	scgilardi	if it's required to keep both open, you're right with-connection is not sufficient.
01:03	scgilardi	unfortunately I need to go now. good luck finding a solution that works for you.
02:43	qed	Is there an easy way to do basic auth with clojure?
02:53	piccolino	I made an hbase binding at http://github.com/davidsantiago/clojure-hbase. Would appreciate any feedback.
02:55	piccolino	Whoops, screwed that link up. No period.
02:57	qed	where did clojure.http go?
02:58	qed	nvm,
03:00	avarus	morning *yawn
03:00	qed	morning avarus
03:04	avarus	hey qed
03:04	qed	avarus: any experience with using basic authentication?
03:04	qed	im trying to get enlive some https://* data to chew on
03:05	qed	http://github.com/technomancy/clojure-http-client/tree/1338ca03f11a9927aa96231ab07e6d344eed92f1
03:05	avarus	no, sorry, I'm not there yet :)
03:05	qed	ah, bummer
05:15	rrc7cz	is there any fn for converting a LazySeq to an InputStream?
05:23	qed	How can I select something like <a name="random text"></a> using enlive?
05:38	rrc7cz	qed: [:a (attr= :name "random text")]
06:08	cgrand	qed, rrc7cz: [[:a (attr= :name "random text")]] ; [:a (attr= :name "random text")] is a *[name="random text"] not a[name="random text"]
06:10	qed	cgrand: thanks much
06:10	qed	cgrand: could i get your advice briefly on scraping a site?
06:10	qed	http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-02-01.html
06:10	opqdonut	is (binding [ns 'foo] expr) ok?
06:10	opqdonut	using in-ns is kinda ugly
06:11	opqdonut	ah, i can use intern
06:11	qed	cgrand: see above link: I'm trying to capture who said the text, and then the text, without the timestamp -- so ideally I'd like every line i take to have two elements: the name of the person speaking, and the text they spoke -- when someone says something twice in a row id like to know that the text belongs to user X
06:12	qed	like [["chouser" "hello world"] ["rhickey" "yes hello hello" "testing 1 2 3"]]
06:14	qed	also cgrand -- perhaps im missing something obvious here -- but if i would like the text found directly within the :p tag and no deeper -- i would use text-node yes?
06:15	cgrand	qed: text-node but with :> in front of it (you want the text node right under not all text nodes which happen to descend of the current node
06:16	qed	ah-ha!
06:18	qed	cgrand: :> solved almost all my issues -- thanks for the great library
06:19	cgrand	you're welcome
06:24	cgrand	qed: I would try (-> "http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-02-01.html" java.net.URI. html-resource (select [:p :> [any-node (but-node [:a first-child])]])) + filter + partition-by
07:35	rhickey	does clojars offer a web listing of available archives? I only see search
07:36	Jomyoot	hi
07:36	Jomyoot	rhickey: is it possible to have 2 open db connection in contrib.sql?
07:38	Jomyoot	darn no one here
07:51	avarus	I am here :)
07:51	avarus	should work
07:52	avarus	just give it a different name and when you do sql/with-connection db, take the different name
07:52	avarus	rhickey: apparently there is no "view all" :>
07:52	Jomyoot	avarus: can you elaborate?
07:53	avarus	sure...
07:53	avarus	a sec
07:53	Jomyoot	(with-connection db
07:53	Jomyoot	(with-query-results rs) does not allow specifying connection
07:54	Jomyoot	I need to keep db1 and db2 open rather than closing/opening for each statement
07:54	Jomyoot	i was hoping for (with-connection [db1 .. db2 ..]
07:54	Jomyoot	then (with-query-results rs db1 ...
07:55	Jomyoot	but with-query-results does not allow specifying connection
07:55	avarus	Jomyoot: http://pastie.org/821665
07:55	avarus	ah, a persistent connection you need
07:56	Jomyoot	right persistent
07:56	Jomyoot	if i am gonna be making 2,000 connections.
07:56	Jomyoot	is closing/opening all the time gonna hurt?
07:57	avarus	can't say :). I believe it could be a bit slower compared to keeping the connection up but I also believe it's only a small overhead
07:58	Jomyoot	there is no way out :(
07:59	avarus	I'd do a quick benchmark
07:59	avarus	or test in this case :)
08:00	spariev	Jomyoot: try connection pool, it might help
08:00	Jomyoot	how?
08:00	clojurebot	with style and grace
08:01	avarus	http://www.mail-archive.com/clojure@googlegroups.com/msg17782.html <-- looks interesting, Jomyoot
08:01	avarus	makes much sense to me..."clojure.contrib.sql can also use a datasource or jndi..."
08:02	avarus	voila!
08:03	qed	where is partition-by at?
08:03	qed	is it in contrib?
08:03	AWizzArd	seq-utils
08:04	qed	ty
08:05	abrenk	rhickey: http://clojars.org/repo is browseable
08:05	Jomyoot	it solves my problem actually
08:05	Jomyoot	wow
08:05	qed	and quite a bit of fun to play with
08:05	spariev	Jomyoot: here's quick example using c3p0 - http://gist.github.com/302538
08:05	Jomyoot	i wish there's more example for using connection pool with clojure
08:05	qed	i wish there were more examples in general
08:07	avarus	abrenk: ah, great :)!
08:08	rhickey	abrenk: thanks
08:09	spariev	how to say to leiningen that i'm currently offline, so it wont try to download stuff ?
08:10	Jomyoot	I am going to get real dumb here: is there built-in connection pool for java, or do I need to resort to things like c3p0?
08:10	spariev	there's no such thing, as far as i know
08:11	Jomyoot	so need to use c3p0?
08:12	abrenk	spariev: you can do so in ~/.m2/settings.xml
08:12	abrenk	spariev: <settings><offline>true</offline></settings>
08:13	spariev	Jomyoot: yes, i would recommend c3p0 or apache DBCP
08:13	spariev	abrenk: oh, thanks. lein honors maven settings, great
08:14	Jomyoot	thank you
08:14	Jomyoot	i felt really excited
08:14	Jomyoot	wow
08:15	spariev	Jomyoot: np
08:15	lpetit	MigLayout is really cool !
08:15	Jomyoot	i was so close to quitting clojure
08:15	qed	I have a structure which looks like: ("Xyz: " "Hello frank reynolds.\n" "Ghijkl: " "Tommy guns!" "Lots of them!") -- I'd like to partition it so Xyz... and Ghikl... are two separate lists -- how would I accomplish this?
08:16	qed	im not sure i understand how to properly use partition-by
08:17	avarus	Jomyoot: yesterday I had a fight with clojure and pgsql; i wasn't able to insert values for timestamp fields :P...really...I was about to quit, too :P
08:17	_fogus_	qed: What about split-at?
08:17	chouser	rhickey: I added IFn to Vec last night, and can work on j.u.Collection methods. Do you want one or more tickets to hang patches on?
08:18	qed	_fogus_: i will try it, thanks for the suggestion
08:18	qed	oh, _fogus_ -- this will not work because the number of "blah"s after Ghijkl: can be variable
08:19	noidi	,(apply map vector (partition 2 [:foo 1 :bar 2]))
08:19	clojurebot	([:foo :bar] [1 2])
08:19	qed	so it needs to match something like #".*:\s\Z"
08:19	qed	for it to split on it
08:19	noidi	ah, that's not what you meant
08:19	Leafw	about deftype: altering any of the 'fields' of an instance should return a new instance that shares all other fields of the old one, except that one? I hope that's the case.
08:20	rhickey	chouser: yes, I was going to try their agile planner this morning - hang on a sec...
08:20	qed	It's like ("Foo: " "Some stuff\n" "more stuff\n" "even more stuff\n" "Bar: " "bar's stuff" "bar has more stuff" "Baz: " "...")
08:20	chouser	rhickey: ok, no rush. other things I should be doing...
08:21	rhickey	chouser: thanks for the help!
08:22	qed	yes! fogus and chouser! get thee to a publisher..ey?
08:23	chouser	,(use '[clojure.contrib.seq :only [partition-by]])
08:23	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/seq__init.class or clojure/contrib/seq.clj on classpath:
08:23	chouser	,(use '[clojure.contrib.seq-utils :only [partition-by]])
08:23	clojurebot	nil
08:23	chouser	,(map (partial apply concat) (partition 2 (partition-by keyword? [:a 1 2 3 4 :b 1 2 :c 5 6])))
08:23	clojurebot	((:a 1 2 3 4) (:b 1 2) (:c 5 6))
08:24	chouser	qed: ^^
08:24	Jomyoot	do you guys code with dark on light and light and dark?
08:24	noidi	chouser, wow :)
08:24	Chousuke	Leafw: I don't think structural sharing makes sense for deftype
08:24	noidi	chouser, I would've used a messy recursive function... I hope that you cover most of core and contrib in joy of clojure :)
08:24	Chousuke	Leafw: just copying every field is most likely going to be faster AND more memory efficient unless the deftype has dozens of fields.
08:25	Leafw	Chousuke: would be great to have the access speed of fields, but with the structural sharing capabilities of a map. Is there such combination, now that defstruct is being phased out?
08:25	chouser	Leafw: structural sharing doesn't really kick in on maps or vectors until you have at least 32 items anyway.
08:25	avarus	ah apropos joy of clojure...still haven't read more than the intro :D
08:26	chouser	If your deftype has more than 32 fields, you may need help in other ways.
08:26	Chousuke	Leafw: if you have so many fields that structural sharing becomes relevant, use a map :)
08:26	Leafw	chouser: no, I don't want more than 32 fields ... I see. Thanks for the insights.
08:26	lpetit	,(map (partial apply concat) (partition 2 (partition-by keyword? [:a 1 2 3 4 :b :c 1 2 :c 5 6])))
08:26	clojurebot	((:a 1 2 3 4) (:b :c 1 2) (:c 5 6))
08:26	rhickey	chouser: ok, there's a master ticket and several subtickets here: http://www.assembla.com/spaces/tickets/agile_planner/clojure
08:26	lpetit	chouser : ^^ :-(
08:26	chouser	lpetit: hmph.
08:27	lpetit	there was a thread recently on this in the ml
08:28	Leafw	I just cherished the idea of never ever having declare a clone method, yet having a built-in "undo" just by keeping the previous map when altering a map (or a reified ob, whatever)
08:28	Leafw	without the cost of a full clone.
08:28	lpetit	chouser, qed: search for "clojure kata" in the ml
08:29	lpetit	qed, chouser: there we are : http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/49bd20eb4bcba20c/3565dbeabaef0748?lnk=gst&q=clojure+kata#3565dbeabaef0748
08:29	chouser	rhickey: will generic vector replace PersistentVector?
08:30	rhickey	chouser: that's trickier, due to bootstrapping issues
08:30	Chousuke	Leafw: you can do that with types, can't you? they are persistent.
08:30	qed	lpetit: MUCH OBLIGED
08:30	qed	whoa -- sorry about that
08:30	Chousuke	Leafw: it's just that for small types, doing a full clone is cheaper than any structural sharing scheme
08:31	lpetit	qed: np
08:32	rhickey	chouser: while ccinc is straightforward, cinc has issues with needing some fundamental data structures up front, so these that are defined using so much of Clojure pose a bootstrapping question
08:33	rhickey	much easier when the only predefined thing you need is a cons cell with car and cdr
08:34	Leafw	Chousuke: ok, so it's all just vocabulary clashes. An instance of a type then is all final, and the values of its fields cannot be changed?
08:55	qed	how do you clear a slime repl?
08:55	noidi	you can scroll the old messages away by pressin C-l twice
08:56	noidi	or just kill the buffer with C-x k and bring it back with C-c C-z
08:56	noidi	maybe there's a proper way to clear it but that's what I use :)
09:01	oek	C-c C-o will clear the output at least on my slime
09:01	qed	C-c M-o
09:01	qed	clears all output
09:02	oek	qed: and that clears everything up ;)
09:03	qed	oek: it washes the buffer clean
09:03	qed	"it's like power washing your buffer"
09:04	lpetit	bon alors je retourne au boulot, sinon je vais me faire virer si on voit que je fais des reductions de maps au lieu de faire du miglayout !
09:04	lpetit	woops, nevermind
09:05	lpetit	was a joke, of course. Wrong channel, BTW
09:05	qed	Ne vous laissez pas tiré, lpetit
09:05	lpetit	:)
09:05	qed	lpetit: is that too formal for irc?
09:06	lpetit	qed: what ?
09:06	qed	lpetit: is vous too formal?
09:07	lpetit	qed: not if you don't know the person.
09:07	qed	lpetit: so you use vous usually on irc?
09:08	qed	lpetit: i guess im trying to find out where the threshold is for tu :)
09:09	qed	On se tutoie?
09:09	lpetit	qed: do you want to date? (rofl)
09:09	qed	lol
09:10	lpetit	seriously, I must leave the channel, cu
09:10	avarus	if they have sex they still say "vous" :P
09:11	qed	haha
09:11	qed	im just always so foggy on when i can use tu vs vous -- it's a difficult contextual piece of the puzzle
09:11	qed	i never speak french on irc so i always wonder: are we friends? am i formal? this is only irc. should i be really casual? etc.
09:13	avarus	we are all friends :P
09:17	cgrand	qed: on most public forums in french, tu is used so I guess it applies to irc too
09:18	qed	cgrand: good to know, thanks
09:19	cgrand	avarus: 50 years ago children were saying "vous" to their parents
09:20	avarus	glad my parents were/are so much more slack :)
09:21	avarus	my dad is like a good friend to me
09:21	avarus	that's really great
09:38	abrenk	Hehe. Using 'lazy-cat' while my cat sits on my lap... g
09:42	qed	whoa -- (ns my.class (:gen-class :implements [clojure.lang.IDeref])) (defn -deref [this] "Testing.. Testing..") @(my.class.)
09:42	qed	that's neat
09:47	bosie	i am new to clojure/FP but isn't this a side effect: http://gist.github.com/302619 (and i am talking about calling testing2)
09:47	AWizzArd	bosie: yes.
09:48	AWizzArd	It is a side effect.
09:48	bosie	interesting
09:48	qed	why is it a side effect?
09:48	AWizzArd	qed: result of calling the function returns nil.
09:49	AWizzArd	But when you call it you are interested in its side effect, not in its calculation which results constantly in nil.
09:50	bosie	AWizzArd: which function returns nil?
09:50	AWizzArd	okay, it returns "yes"
09:51	AWizzArd	The top-level call of println however results in nil.
09:51	qed	im not sure why it's a side effect
09:51	qed	it seems the behavior is quite predictable
09:51	bosie	qed: println is automatically a side effect
09:52	qed	bosie: i know this, im just not 100% sure why yet :)
09:52	AWizzArd	A call to println prints something on your monitor
09:52	bosie	qed: because it has nothing to do with the actual function
09:52	bosie	qed: you couldn't use the function concurrently
09:53	qed	ah right -- i see
09:54	bosie	AWizzArd: so i can only be side effect free if every single function is side effect free?
09:54	bosie	AWizzArd: i have a hard time wrapping my head around that because it sounds great but i can code like that in any language
09:55	AWizzArd	FP is mostly about state change. Clojure supports you to program with less state changes.
09:55	qed	bosie: you can be side effect free in particular pieces of an application without being completely side effect free
09:55	AWizzArd	Because it does not directly offer you the operator = that you find in Java or C. int x = 8;
09:55	dnolen	bosie: side effect free code certainly isn't the "point" of clojure, any real world clojure program is going to have side effects (graphics, file I/O, etc)
09:56	qed	you have discretion over where to use side effects
09:56	AWizzArd	Instead Clojure helps you to calculate new values, and under the hood it reuses your existing ones.
09:57	bosie	hm
09:57	AWizzArd	bosie: imagine you have a hashmap H with a million key/value pairs. When you add one element then you modify H.
09:57	AWizzArd	In Clojure you can not add an element to H. Instead you "copy" H and add an element to this copy.
09:58	AWizzArd	Under the hood there really is not a copy. So this operation won't cost you 20 seconds, but instead will run in some few microseconds.
09:58	AWizzArd	But for your program it looks like as if you have two hashmaps now, one with a million k/v-pairs, the other one with one more.
09:59	AWizzArd	And Clojure supports you with concurrency by helping you to make state change safe.
09:59	AWizzArd	Clojure is not about writing programs that can communicate with a user.
09:59	AWizzArd	can't
09:59	AWizzArd	funny ;)
09:59	qed	AWizzArd: what does your program see 5 k/v pairs later? 1,000,005 and (+ 1,000,005 1)?
10:00	AWizzArd	The idea is not to limit you to simple programs that calculate the faculty
10:00	AWizzArd	qed: if you continue to add more elements, then you will always have a new map
10:00	qed	but are all of those new elements preserved, GC'd?
10:00	qed	like n+1, n+1+1, n+1+1+1...
10:01	AWizzArd	as long anyone is pointing on those the GC won't collect it.
10:01	AWizzArd	When all 5 pointers are gone, then the hashmap will be gone too
10:01	qed	when is it considered safe that someone is no longer pointing at it?
10:01	qed	what about futures?
10:02	AWizzArd	The GC does that automatically. Seems to be pretty stable, now, after several hundreds of thousands of man-hours evolution.
10:03	AWizzArd	One of the really extremly amazing things in Clojure are its fully persistent data structures.
10:03	dnolen	when there are no more global \|\|???????????????????????vars or locals referring to it, basic gc stuff.
10:03	AWizzArd	Hickey implemented some very nice magic stuff.
10:03	dnolen	oops
10:03	dnolen	sorry
10:04	bosie	AWizzArd: hope not too much magic. i am trying to figure out whether or not i should learn clojure and use it for my master thesis or go python/java
10:05	Apage43	master thesis in what?
10:05	AWizzArd	bosie: if you want to do something non-trivial I can only suggest you to do this with Clojure.
10:05	bosie	Apage43: computer science
10:05	Apage43	also what awizz said
10:05	bosie	Apage43: or did you mean specifically?
10:06	bosie	AWizzArd: right
10:06	Apage43	well.. i don't think it matters as much now that i think of it
10:06	Apage43	because of what awizz said
10:06	bosie	fair enough
10:07	Apage43	if you use something else you'll just be exerting more effort
10:07	AWizzArd	bosie: you can have a complex data structure and use it concurrently in multiple threads and "modify" it there. The other threads won't see your modifications, and each cpu core can work with consistent data.
10:07	Apage43	Definitely especially so if you lean toward the theoretical end of CS
10:07	bosie	how do you figure that? it will be text data mining
10:08	Apage43	bosie: well, how much processing are you doing to it? How complex/advanced are the algos you are applying?
10:10	bosie	Apage43: a lot actually. the small data set will be around 45000 documents and i will apply preprocessing on them to extract the feature set. probably based on word entropy and/or genetic algorithms. after that it goes off to an SVM (which i will not implement myself)
10:11	bosie	sorry if that was a bit too much information
10:12	Apage43	personally i would say that sounds like something clojure and/or lispy and functional languages in general would do well at.
10:13	qed	bosie: have you seen ato's wide finder 2?
10:13	bosie	that's what i heard. and the processing will be done on an 160 core machine....
10:14	Apage43	for genetic algorithms particularly you'll wind up with more concise and more easily paralellizable code
10:14	bosie	qed: not yet
10:14	qed	bosie: http://meshy.org/2009/12/13/widefinder-2-with-clojure.html
10:14	qed	im guessing you'll enjoy that :)
10:15	bosie	qed: thanks. instapaper-ed it ;)
10:15	qed	bosie: also, if you're not already checking it out: http://planet.clojure.in/ && http://www.disclojure.org/
10:16	qed	two sites you will want to bookmark :)
10:24	qed	http://combinate.us/2010/02/09/pi-in-clojure/
10:43	bosie	thanks guys
10:43	bosie	i will go with a real side effects free FP language.... => haskell
10:43	bosie	kidding
10:46	triyo	you mean a calculator
10:56	_fogus_	Even a calculator has M+ M- and MC
10:57	slyphon	so, i'm trying to figure out how one could design a callback mechanism using clojure
10:57	slyphon	how do you hand a function to another function that can later be called when an event happens?
10:58	chouser	slyphon: it's the most common thing in the world. you pass functions to map, filter, etc. right?
10:58	slyphon	sure
10:59	slyphon	hrm
11:05	jcromartie	slyphon: forget the map implementation
11:05	jcromartie	slyphon: this is just a fundamental part of functional languages
11:05	jcromartie	,(fn [x] (+ 1 x))
11:05	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval__7080$fn__7082 sandbox$eval__7080$fn__7082@1695ec4>
11:05	jcromartie	that returns the fn itself
11:06	slyphon	ah
11:06	slyphon	ok, that's what i wanted to know
11:06	jcromartie	,(let [f (fn [x] (+ x 1))] (f 1))
11:06	clojurebot	2
11:06	jcromartie	and there is a shorthand too
11:06	jcromartie	,#(+ % 1)
11:06	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval__7093$fn__7095 sandbox$eval__7093$fn__7095@16d9bf>
11:06	slyphon	ohhhh
11:06	slyphon	ok, i got it
11:08	slyphon	it's been a long time since i lisped
11:33	aravind	dnolen or cgrand: either of you around?
11:34	dnolen	aravind: hullo
11:34	aravind	dnolen: hi! hey, if you have some time, I'd like to ask some questions about http://groups.google.com/group/enlive-clj/browse_thread/thread/9f979c8e3f4ecc99
11:34	dnolen	aravind: sure.
11:35	aravind	dnolen: I am new to enlive/compojure and was trying to parse that thread and its left me more confused than I was. I came to when I was trying to write a template to fille in name:values pairs into a table (from a map).
11:36	aravind	dnolen: would that be a good use case for that proposed enhancement?
11:37	dnolen	aravind: The thread is really more about a usability enhancement. Enlive can probably do what you want right now.
11:37	aravind	oh..
11:38	aravind	okay, nevermind then.. (back to scratching my head)
11:38	dnolen	aravind: are you just trying to figure out how to write the template?
11:40	aravind	dnolen: well.. so I have html like <td><td> and I have to loop over a map and fill in name, value pairs into that table. I don't see an easy way to applying clone-for to fill values into multiple locations in one iteration. I thought that the thread was about that.
11:40	dnolen	aravind: multiple location in the td?
11:40	dnolen	location -> locations
11:42	aravind	dnolen: yeah, so each loop of the clone-for would fill in one name:value pair into the table.
11:43	cgrand	aravind each-loop of the clone for must deal with a row
11:43	aravind	dnolen: oh.. name would go into the first <td>, value into the next <td> and then a </tr>
11:44	cgrand	(deftemplate tpl src [data] [:tr] (clone-for [[k v] data] [:td.name] (content k) [:td.value] (content k)))
11:45	cgrand	the second (content k) should b (content v) you may need to call str on k or v if they aren't strings
11:46	aravind	cgrand: thanks!
11:49	fdaoud	cgrand: thank you for Enlive, it's excellent
12:05	chouser	is it wrong to want to know from (swap! a f) what value was finally successfully used as the input to f?
12:06	chouser	or is it mearly wrong to achieve it by use of another (local) atom? :-P
12:06	chouser	merely
12:07	hiredman	aren't atoms synchronous?
12:07	chouser	they spin, retrying
12:08	arohner	(swap! a f) @a is a race
12:08	hiredman	can't you just look at a?
12:08	chouser	I have map in an atom, and I do (swap! a dissoc :foo)
12:08	hiredman	arohner: so is @b if f is setting b
12:08	chouser	then I want to know if I was the thread that did the dissoc or not, because I have side-effects to accomplish if I was.
12:09	arohner	I have a deftype that I want to implement IFn. Do I have to write out all the implementations by hand, or is there a shortcut?
12:09	arohner	it would be awesome if I could just point it at an existing function
12:09	arohner	(deftype foo [a b] IFn my-fn)
12:10	chouser	all implementations? how many do you have?
12:10	arohner	rather than (invoke [obj]) (invoke [obj1 obj2]) ...
12:10	arohner	sorry, all methods on IFn
12:10	arohner	and apply
12:14	cgrand	chouser: you're not alone, I too have already wanted to know the value passed to f.
12:15	hiredman	what about a watch?
12:15	chouser	I could use an agent instead of an atom, and do my side-effects in the action. But 99% of the time I expect there to be no contention on this at all, so the thread overhead of agents seems unfortunate.
12:16	chouser	hm...
12:16	cgrand	,(let [a (atom [{} nil])] (swap! a (fn [[m]] [(assoc m :foo :bar) m]))) ;-(
12:16	clojurebot	[{:foo :bar} {}]
12:16	chouser	heh
12:19	eyeris	I have two functions. They both return a list of maps. I want to compare whether the list contain the same maps. (= (set (f1)) (set (f2))) evals to false. However if I eval (f1) and (f2) and then copy the returns back into the original expr and re-eval, it returns true. What am I missing here?
12:19	cgrand	chouser: but then you have a small memory leak
12:20	hiredman	arohner: I don't think (swap! a f) @a is a race
12:20	chouser	fixed-size leak. which is more of .. a reservoir
12:20	chouser	?
12:21	arohner	hiredman: you're not guaranteeed that @a will have the result of the swap you just did
12:21	hiredman	atoms are synchronous, and their retries run on the same thread as the swap
12:21	arohner	another thread can swap! between the two calls
12:21	hiredman	oh
12:21	hiredman	right
12:22	cgrand	chouser: you can take care of this leak by doing another swap! to set the second item to nil when the pair is identical to the one the first swap! returned
12:24	arohner	eyeris: do you have a paste you can show us?
12:25	eyeris	arohner: Sure, though you won't be able to run it because the two functions execute against a DB.
12:25	eyeris	Give me a sec.
12:26	chouser	(defn swap!-old [a f & args] (let [old (atom nil)] (swap! a #(do (reset! old %) (apply f args)))))
12:26	chouser	cgrand: uglier, but can be used transparently on existing atoms.
12:26	chouser	oh, whoops
12:27	chouser	(defn swap!-old [a f & args] (let [old (atom nil)] (swap! a #(do (reset! old %) (apply f % args))) @old))
12:30	eyeris	arohner: http://pastebin.com/d2270e7bb
12:30	cgrand	chouser: I agree. Should we start lobbying for another swap! that returns [new-val old-val]?
12:31	eyeris	arohner: Look at line 31 and down
12:31	chouser	maybe. I've got another goofy use-case for atoms here ... trying to see if it could use such a swap! as well.
12:32	arohner	eyeris: is that clojureql?
12:32	eyeris	arohner: Yes
12:32	esj	is this perverse: https://gist.github.com/0290eae3912f095e1b77 ?
12:32	arohner	eyeris: I'm suspicious of the return type of (four-year-consent-data)
12:32	arohner	is that a sql result set?
12:32	eyeris	It's a realized seq of results
12:32	stuartsierra	esj: not at all
12:33	eyeris	You can see it evaluated on line 34
12:33	esj	stuartsierra: excellent ;)
12:33	stuartsierra	esj: I used the same technique in a GUI example
12:33	esj	i've been puzzling over different ways of doing this all afternoon
12:33	stuartsierra	Although I did it with agents
12:33	arohner	eyeris: print the results of (set (four-year-consent-data)). My guess is the two runs will have different values
12:34	stuartsierra	esj: What exactly are you trying to achieve?
12:34	esj	just have a function with side effects running until I tell it to stop
12:34	arohner	eyeris: oh, nm
12:35	esj	from a possibly different thread to where it was started
12:35	eyeris	Both data functions return LazySeqs. The (set)s of those seqs are equal, as evidenced on line 50 of the paste.
12:36	stuartsierra	esj: Ok, here's how I did it: http://stuartsierra.com/2010/01/08/agents-of-swing
12:37	stuartsierra	esj: I'm worried that your version spins in an infinite loop even when the gate is "turned off"
12:38	esj	oh... why ?
12:38	stuartsierra	Because spinning in a do-nothing loop wastes processor resources.
12:38	stuartsierra	I don't understand your example well enough to see if that's what it's doing.
12:38	chouser	where does it spin?
12:38	arohner	eyeris: did you try (= (set (four-year-consent-data)) (set (four-year-consent-data)))
12:38	arohner	i.e. both fns are the same type?
12:39	stuartsierra	chouser, esj: Oh, maybe it doesn't spin.
12:39	esj	hooray !
12:40	eyeris	arohner: That is on line 31.
12:40	arohner	eyeris: that's fycd vs. fycd-new
12:40	stuartsierra	esj: Yeah, I think this works. Not intuitive to my mind, but that's not saying much.
12:40	eyeris	Oh I see.
12:40	arohner	I'm asking about fycd vs. fycd, or fycd-new vs. fycd-new
12:40	arohner	just curious what happens
12:40	eyeris	Your expr evals to true
12:41	eyeris	Both forms of it
12:42	esj	is there anything to recommend going directly : http://gist.github.com/302787 ?
12:44	hiredman	all the second atom setting seems like a use case for watchers
12:46	esj	yeah. I'm scared of using them until they stop being alpha.
12:46	hiredman	they aren't aplha
12:46	hiredman	alpha
12:46	arohner	eyeris: sorry, I don't know what's going on there
12:46	arohner	eyeris: and I have to run
12:46	eyeris	arohner: Thanks for trying.
12:46	esj	oops, behind the curve, as usual :)
12:46	hiredman	they are "experimental"
12:46	eyeris	I know I must be missing something simple.
12:47	hiredman	esj: I was actually talking to chouser of 20 minutes ago about the atoms
12:48	hiredman	ugh
12:48	hiredman	busy wait
12:48	arohner	eyeris: one more idea
12:48	arohner	try printing (class fycd) (class fycd-new)
12:48	hiredman	use a BlockingQueue and a watcher
12:49	hiredman	the watcher can (.put bq true) if the atom is set to true
12:49	eyeris	LazySeq
12:49	stuartsierra	esj: (defn run-until [r f] (loop [] (when @r (f) (recur))))
12:50	eyeris	Although, (class (first (fycd[-new]))) returns PersistentStructMap versus PersistentArrayMap
12:50	esj	stuartsierra: yes!
12:51	stuartsierra	esj: Careful, I'm not 100% sure that's right.
12:53	eyeris	Is there a way to convert a StructMap to an ArrayMap?
12:53	esj	i'll play with it, thanks. The problem with this language is the longer you work on something the shorter the code becomes... so at some point somebody is going to create a singularity.
12:53	stuartsierra	:)
12:54	stuartsierra	esj: The thing is, run-until will never return until the gate closes.
12:55	stuartsierra	You probably would want to start it in a separate thread.
12:55	esj	i don't mind as the side effect is all I'm after
12:55	stuartsierra	Or use an agent.
12:55	esj	yeah, I'd future it
12:55	stuartsierra	that works too
12:55	esj	thanks for the help, as ever.
12:55	stuartsierra	no problem
12:58	triyo	_fogus_: "Even a calculator has M+ M- and MC" -> Haskell with Monads
12:58	arohner	eyeris: really, one last idea
12:59	arohner	eyeris: try printing (.hashCode fycd) (.hashCode fycd-new)
12:59	arohner	and a thing I just remembered, in java (int 1) and (long 1) have different hash codes
12:59	arohner	so if your DB representation returns a long...
12:59	arohner	now I'm really leaving
12:59	eyeris	arohner: ok
12:59	eyeris	THanks
12:59	chouser	arohner: are you sure?
13:00	arohner	chouser: I've been bitten by it several times
13:00	chouser	,(map hash [(int 1) (long 1) (bigint 1)])
13:00	clojurebot	(1 1 1)
13:00	chouser	,(map #(.hashCode %) [(int 1) (long 1) (bigint 1)])
13:00	clojurebot	(1 1 1)
13:00	eyeris	The hash codes of my objects are the same.
13:00	chouser	they may not be .equal, however. :-(
13:01	chouser	,(.equals (int 1) (long 1))
13:01	clojurebot	false
13:01	arohner	chouser: ah, that's what it was
13:01	Chousuke	chouser: vectors can't hold primitives. all those get converted to Objects :/
13:01	hiredman	ugh
13:01	chouser	Chousuke: yes, but Objects of the appropriate type.
13:01	hiredman	Chousuke: primitives don't have a hashCode anyway
13:01	eyeris	You're right, .equals = false
13:01	chouser	,(map class [(int 1) (long 1) (bigint 1)])
13:01	clojurebot	(java.lang.Integer java.lang.Long java.math.BigInteger)
13:01	hiredman	that is horrible
13:01	arohner	yes it is
13:01	hiredman	unequal but the same hashCode
13:02	hiredman	bad sun, bad!
13:02	chouser	and because they are not ".equals", they "must not" match when used as keys in a hash-map
13:02	chouser	hashCodes don't need to be unique
13:02	eyeris	I know why that is. It's because one of them is an ArrayMap and the other is a StructMap. They have the same keys, but the ArrayMap requires the same key order
13:03	eyeris	I just don't know how to turn them both into basic HashMaps
13:03	chouser	(into {} ...)
13:03	chouser	but I doubt that's the problem
13:03	hiredman	,(= (array-map :a 1 :b 2) (array-map :b 2 :a 1))
13:03	clojurebot	true
13:03	hiredman	,(= (array-map :a 1 :b 2) (array-map :b 2 :a 1 :a 3))
13:03	clojurebot	false
13:04	chouser	stop that.
13:04	chouser	if you make broken maps, you get broken results.
13:05	cow-orker	As "new" and "->" and play nicely, and I like "new", I tried this: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177196/ . Are there any problems with this macro? (It seems to work for trivial forms)
13:05	hiredman	sure
13:05	cow-orker	dont :-)
13:06	eyeris	You're right, using (into {} ... does not fix it.
13:06	hiredman	cow-orker: have you seen ->>
13:07	eyeris	Even though that does cause them to .equal = true
13:07	hiredman	,(->> "foo" .getBytes (new String))
13:07	clojurebot	"foo"
13:07	eyeris	This is so darn confusing.
13:08	cow-orker	sure, but except for "new" I'd like to insert into "first arguement slot"
13:08	cow-orker	what I wanted was -> that supports new, not ->>
13:08	hiredman	,(-> "foo" .getBytes (->> (new String)))
13:08	clojurebot	"foo"
13:08	hiredman	:D
13:09	cow-orker	right, that works :)
13:09	chouser	eyeris: sorry, I haven't been paying attention. I see your paste -- you're expecting line 32 to be true?
13:09	eyeris	No, line 3
13:09	eyeris	Oh wait
13:10	eyeris	Here's a new paste: http://pastebin.com/d5d52a8f0
13:10	eyeris	That more clearly explains what I don't understand.
13:10	chouser	ah, ok
13:11	chouser	so is there any chance that some of those numbers are int and others long?
13:11	eyeris	There is. Though the (= (first (fycd)) (second (fycd-new))) evals true
13:12	chouser	you can't trust = here -- it's not what value comparison uses in a hash-set
13:12	eyeris	Likewise for the other combination, (= (second (fycd)) (first (fycd-new)))
13:12	eyeris	Oh.
13:13	chouser	try .equals instead
13:13	eyeris	.equals evals false too
13:14	chouser	ok, so that's your problem.
13:14	eyeris	It is?
13:15	chouser	yes. if they're not .equal, they won't match in a hash-set
13:15	chouser	in some cases you can skirt this issue by using a sorted-set instead. unfortunately the default comparator doesn't do hash-maps, so doesn't help you here.
13:15	eyeris	Oh, you meant on the maps. I did it on the sets. Hold on.
13:16	chouser	ah, yes.
13:16	eyeris	Right, the maps don't .equals to true either.
13:17	eyeris	They also don't .equals to true if I convert them both to normal maps using into {}
13:17	chouser	the options I can think of are: use sorted-set with your own comparator, or convert all numerics to a consistent type.
13:18	eyeris	So the reason that copy-pasting the results back into the original expr in my works is because the reader converts them both to ArrayMaps
13:18	chouser	rhickey: are you listening to this? are they any better options?
13:18	chouser	eyeris: no, because the reader reads them all as Integers
13:18	eyeris	Oh
13:19	chouser	it would have helped you identify the problem much more quickly if longs and ints printed differently.
13:19	eyeris	:)
13:19	eyeris	I can easily cast the int to a long.
13:19	chouser	ok. do that. :-)
13:20	eyeris	That worked.
13:37	ninjudd	is there a way to prevent the repl from traversing a specific sequence? perhaps a meta flag on the sequence
13:43	chouser	that's an interesting idea. you can tweak the printer by adjusting the print-method multimethod.
13:47	ninjudd	chouser: ok, so i should just set :type in meta and write my own print-method
13:48	chouser	ninjudd: sure, that'd be one approach
13:52	ninjudd	chouser: ok, thanks. that works
14:16	Drakeson	how would you apply a function to the values of a map?
14:16	chouser	this is the new FAQ #1
14:16	chouser	:-)
14:17	chouser	,(let [m {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}] (zipmap (keys m) (map inc (vals m))))
14:17	clojurebot	{:c 4, :b 3, :a 2}
14:17	Drakeson	but, wasn't there a function for this in one of the libs?
14:18	hiredman	,(use '[clojure.contrib.generic.functor :only (fmap)])
14:18	clojurebot	nil
14:18	hiredman	,(fmap inc {:a 1})
14:18	clojurebot	{:a 2}
14:18	hiredman	,(fmap inc {:a 1 :b 3 :c 4})
14:18	clojurebot	{:a 2, :b 4, :c 5}
14:18	Drakeson	thanks
14:19	Drakeson	why would you put :only there?
14:19	Drakeson	there is nothing else in there
14:20	chouser	it documents where the fn is defined
14:20	hiredman	Drakeson: I didn't know that
14:20	chouser	anyone looking at the log can see where fmap comes from
14:20	hiredman	but yes, :only is nice
14:20	bosie	what's the name of "'"? like (use 'clojure.....)
14:21	Drakeson	quote
14:21	Drakeson	chouser: isn't :require even nicer?
14:21	hiredman	,(macroexpand-1 ''(foo))
14:21	clojurebot	(quote (foo))
14:21	bosie	Drakeson: there is no name for that mechanism?
14:21	hiredman	,(macroexpand-1 (quote 'a))
14:21	clojurebot	(quote a)
14:21	hiredman	bosie: it is called quoting
14:22	hiredman	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_%28programming_language%29#Self-evaluating_forms_and_quoting
14:26	bosie	hiredman: ok now i found it in the docs
14:26	bosie	thanks
14:28	chouser	Drakeson: either seems fine. require with a namespace alias, use with :only. either way the usage of a fn points to an form in the 'ns' that indicates the defining namespace.
14:59	eyeris	Is there a std function that takes a value x and a list of functions [f1 f2 f3] and returns [f1(x) f2(x) f3(x)]?
15:00	chouser	juxt
15:00	eyeris	,(doc juxt)
15:00	clojurebot	"([f] [f g] [f g h] [f g h & fs]); Alpha - name subject to change. Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the juxtaposition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, and returns a vector containing the result of applying each fn to the args (left-to-right). ((juxt a b c) x) => [(a x) (b x) (c x)]"
15:00	eyeris	Ah, so it's not in 1.0.0 :)
15:00	chouser	hm, no probably not. maybe 1.1
15:12	cemerick	chouser: what page count are you guys aiming for?
15:12	chouser	officially 250-300
15:14	cemerick	chouser: any thought of including something on monads? I'm seeing more and more code in the wild that uses them.
15:15	chouser	hm. there's nothing in the outline on them yet.
15:15	cemerick	...which is why I mentioned it :-)
15:15	chouser	I guess I'd have to be more personally impressed with their usefulness before desiring to include them
15:15	cemerick	heh
15:16	stuartsierra	Monads are a solution in search of a problem.
15:16	somnium	~monad
15:16	clojurebot	monad is "yea, though I should walk in the valley of imperative code, I shall fear no evil, for your monad comforts me" - seen in #haskell
15:16	stuartsierra	:)
15:16	triyo	cemerick: any particular advantages of monads over more familiar constructs in clojure, in your opinion perhaps?
15:16	cemerick	there's certainly nothing special about them -- closest thing to a pattern one sees in functional programming, perhaps.
15:17	chouser	I've stumbled on a couple of contexts where I suspect a monad may be a good solution. I suppose I should persue that and see how it turns out.
15:25	rhickey	I wouldn't consider monads part of the Art of Clojure
15:25	rhickey	nor Joy of CLojure
15:26	chouser	heh
15:27	stuartsierra	Monads are the Visiting In-Laws of Clojure.
15:27	rhickey	plus I wonder how monads will fare in the context of Steele's "foldl considered harmful"
15:27	rhickey	monads are inherently non-parallelizable
15:29	triyo	so whats your thoughts on continuations? just kidding...
15:31	vy	Somebody was asking about how to transform a LazySeq into an OutputStream, any replies?
15:32	hiredman	vy: an outputstream is something you write to, and a lazyseq is immutable, I don't see how that is supposed to work
15:32	vy	Sorry, I meant an InputStream.
15:32	hiredman	you just need to proxy inputstream
15:32	stuartsierra	by the way, foldl considered harmful is awesome: http://research.sun.com/projects/plrg/Publications/ICFPAugust2009Steele.pdf [PDF]
15:34	cemerick	triyo: without a type system backing you up, it ends up being just another way to compose operations and control function application. I'd just consider them a particular programming style.
15:35	hiredman	cemerick: are you talking about monads or continuations?
15:35	cemerick	monads
15:36	stuartsierra	Is it intended for datatypes to be read-able?
15:37	stuartsierra	(read-string (pr-str (MyDatatype 1 2 3))) doesn't work
15:37	rhickey	stuartsierra: not yet
15:37	chouser	right, it's not meant to work currently.
15:42	stuartsierra	ok
15:42	stuartsierra	But it will eventually?
15:48	rhickey	stuartsierra: one issue is that if you've printed some deftype instances and re-read in another session, you'll need to have loaded the deftype again first
15:49	rhickey	another is that in order to be able to round trip they'd need to print with a full namespace
15:49	stuartsierra	Yes. I ask because this is a FAQ with StructMaps.
15:50	rhickey	I completely understand the desire
15:50	stuartsierra	Read-able datatypes also opens the door to object literals!
15:51	stuartsierra	#:java.util.Date{:time 12345678}
15:51	rhickey	yikes
15:51	stuartsierra	Heheh. :)
15:52	hiredman	,#=(java.util.Date. 1266008070)
15:52	clojurebot	EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.
15:52	hiredman	bleh
15:52	stuartsierra	I guess you could write #=(MyDatatype 1 2 3)
15:53	rhickey	not without a full ns
15:53	stuartsierra	yes, of course
15:53	cemerick	that's what deflate is for anyway
15:54	rhickey	cemerick: your repl has deflate? :)
15:55	cemerick	rhickey: I deflate my code when I write it ;-)
15:55	stuartsierra	Buuuuuuut, if datatypes support introspection (and they must, since they're Classes) you could write a wrapper that generates Apache Avro serialization specs for them.
15:55	rhickey	so, one question is, is printing readably only when print-dup acceptable?
15:55	cemerick	preferable, I'd say
15:56	stuartsierra	I tend to assume that prn is readable, never really understood print-dup
15:56	hiredman	ditto
15:56	hiredman	,(doc pr)
15:56	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"
15:57	cemerick	print-dup provides hooks for making arbitrary objects readable.
15:57	cemerick	e.g.
15:57	cemerick	,(prn (java.util.ArrayList.))
15:57	clojurebot	#<ArrayList []>
15:57	cemerick	not so useful ^^
15:57	stuartsierra	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn (java.util.ArrayList.)))
15:57	clojurebot	#=(java.util.ArrayList. [])
15:58	stuartsierra	I'd prefer pr to always print read-ably, use print for human-readable cases.
15:58	stuartsierra	I think this would be possible with protocols.
15:59	cemerick	That would require print-dup to be true by default. bleh
15:59	piccolino	Is this #= new in 1.1?
15:59	hiredman	nope
15:59	stuartsierra	cemerick: I want to ditch print-dup altogether.
16:00	piccolino	I can't find anything about it in the reader docs.
16:00	cemerick	piccolino: it's very underdocumented, and not particularly an official feature
16:00	piccolino	Ah.
16:00	stuartsierra	"very underdocumented" heh :)
16:00	chouser	intentally underdocumented, no less.
16:01	cemerick	stuartsierra: right, I mean have the effect of print-dup being true
16:01	stuartsierra	yes
16:01	chouser	that's very noisy at the REPL
16:01	cemerick	I suppose that's fine by me as long as the repls do the right thing.
16:02	hiredman	what happens if it cannot be printed readably?
16:02	stuartsierra	hiredman: Exception
16:02	chouser	you still get #<> stuff
16:02	cemerick	stuartsierra: oh, no no
16:02	hiredman	stuartsierra: that is a lot of exceptions
16:02	LauJensen	Is there anything in contrib which converts java.awt.Color to a #hex ?
16:02	stuartsierra	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn clojure.lang.RT))
16:02	clojurebot	#=clojure.lang.RT
16:02	stuartsierra	ok, that works
16:03	chouser	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn (sorted-map :a 1 :b 2)))
16:03	clojurebot	#=(clojure.lang.PersistentTreeMap/create {:a 1, :b 2})
16:03	stuartsierra	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn in))
16:03	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No method in multimethod 'print-dup' for dispatch value: class clojure.lang.LineNumberingPushbackReader
16:03	stuartsierra	That's the exception.
16:03	chouser	oh! indeed.
16:05	chouser	stuartsierra: this is for the APress book?
16:05	stuartsierra	yes
16:06	_fogus_	stuartsierra: For some reason I thought someone else was writing that
16:06	stuartsierra	Luke Vanderhart is writing about 2/3 of it.
16:06	fdaoud	stuartsierra: you are participating?
16:06	stuartsierra	Originally I was doing only 2 chapters, but now I'm doing several more.
16:07	fdaoud	where's your name then?
16:07	stuartsierra	Not on the cover of the current PDF beta; I wasn't in on it yet.
16:07	stuartsierra	I need to bug them to make a new PDF.
16:08	_fogus_	He lives somewhere in my area. I'm hoping to see him around at the upcoming Clojure UGs
16:08	stuartsierra	_fogus_: Nice. Where's that?
16:09	_fogus_	DC/Metro area
16:09	fdaoud	unfortunately Apress is too agressive in announcing their books so it's hard to trust their dates; I've seen them announce books before the author even started, and the book never came out
16:09	stuartsierra	_fogus_: Cool, that's not far from New York, maybe I could come down some time.
16:09	stuartsierra	fdaoud: I was worried about that for a while, but it seems to be coming together.
16:10	fdaoud	they are also a little too keen on 'Definitive Guide' - but, again, no offense to the authors
16:10	mattrepl	_fogus_: he was at a few of the clojure study groups that predate cap-clug
16:10	_fogus_	You'd be welcome. The next meetup is next Thursday. The one in March will have Halloway speaking
16:10	_fogus_	stuartsierra: ^^
16:10	_fogus_	mattrepl: I was never able to make any of those unfortunately.
16:11	fdaoud	stuartsierra: good to hear!
16:12	stuartsierra	I might be able to come down in March.
16:12	stuartsierra	I'd like to meet "the other Stuart" too.
16:12	_fogus_	http://www.meetup.com/Cap-Clug/calendar/
16:12	_fogus_	Not sure if this is public
16:13	fdaoud	stuartsierra: what's your home page?
16:13	chouser	I met the other Stuart, last time I was in Boston.
16:14	_fogus_	I "met" him by sitting in on one of his talks in the area and chatting afterwards (well, by chatting I mean I said maybe 2 words)
16:14	stuartsierra	fdaoud: you me my personal page? http://stuartsierra.com/
16:16	fdaoud	stuartsierra: yes that's what I meant :)
16:16	_fogus_	The DC/VA meetup in March is at the same time as the Pragmatic Workshop, so I'm trying to convince a special guest to come and join us also. (hint hint nudge nudge... say no more)
16:17	mattrepl	=)
16:17	stuartsierra	_fogus_: meaning...?
16:17	hiredman	we had a lot of python users at the seattle meetup
16:18	_fogus_	gotta go
16:24	avarus	evening!
16:25	rhickey	stuartsierra: where would Avro schemes go in print/read?
16:26	rhickey	schemas
16:26	stuartsierra	rhickey: They wouldn't, it would be a separate thing.
16:26	stuartsierra	But you could generate Avro schemas from datatypes.
16:26	stuartsierra	To make a binary serialization format for Clojure.
16:27	stuartsierra	If you're into that sort of thing.
16:36	tayssir	Hi! Does anyone know why Paredit might work worse in the REPL than in a .clj file buffer? (In the REPL, [] and {} aren't handled like ().)
16:37	patrkris	where does leiningen get clojure-contrib from? which repository?
16:37	stuartsierra	tayssir: printed output is the REPL buffer could confuse paredit
16:38	tayssir	stuartsierra: ah, i thought it worked once (just reinstalled slime and clojure), but maybe i'm just imagining things...
16:38	stuartsierra	never tried it myself
16:39	tayssir	yeah, actually i recalled it was the opposite; before it worked fine in the repl but not so good in the .clj buffer... ;)
17:32	piccolino	Is there some way I can make an integer be interpreted as a long (unboxed)?
17:33	Chousuke	(long whatever)
17:33	hiredman	,(long (int (double 1)))
17:33	clojurebot	1
17:33	piccolino	That appears to box it, though.
17:33	hiredman	it does not
17:34	Chousuke	piccolino: what are you passing it to?
17:34	piccolino	#=(java.util.Date. (long 1))
17:34	hiredman	,expression-info
17:34	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: expression-info in this context
17:34	piccolino	Doesn't work.
17:34	Chousuke	piccolino: that should work
17:35	piccolino	It says No matching ctor found for class java.util.Date.
17:35	Chousuke	,(java.util.Date. (long 1))
17:35	clojurebot	#<Date Wed Dec 31 16:00:00 PST 1969>
17:35	piccolino	Whoa.
17:35	hiredman	,(java.util.Date. 1266014261)
17:35	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.util.Date
17:35	hiredman	,(java.util.Date. (long 1266014261))
17:35	clojurebot	#<Date Thu Jan 15 07:40:14 PST 1970>
17:35	hiredman	piccolino: I think (long 1) is not evaluated in #=
17:35	piccolino	I see.
17:37	hiredman	,(type 1266014261L)
17:37	clojurebot	Invalid number: 1266014261L
17:37	hiredman	bah
17:42	dnolen	anybody been playing around with vector-of?
17:51	chouser	only barely
17:55	dnolen	chouser: it's not supposed to be faster than regular vectors yet right?
17:57	chouser	not particularly. still has to box/unbox things
18:03	dnolen	chouser: I see.
18:04	arohner	chouser: does that require more clojure work, or a new JVM?
18:04	arohner	chouser: and vector-of has lower memory usage right now, right?
18:05	rhickey	vector-of is often faster
18:05	chouser	I think rhickey has plans for fns to support args and return values of long and double. Then you should be able to unboxed speed out of primitive vectors
18:06	hiredman	chouser: map and reduce will need to be IMap and IReduce'ized
18:06	slyphon	what's '->' ?
18:06	hiredman	a macro
18:07	slyphon	ok
18:07	chouser	oh that's right -- maybe with escape analysis and IReduce you can get unboxed speed for some things without primitive fn args
18:07	chouser	you'd think I would be able to remember that from ... yesterday.
18:09	hiredman	I don't think IReduce would need escape analysis
18:09	hiredman	as long as the Fn supported taking primitives and that was discoverable
18:09	chouser	you still pass in a clojure fn, right? and it has an invoke(Object, Object) method that returns an Object.
18:10	rhickey	the tricky part is the return values
18:10	hiredman	chouser: there could be an interface IDoubleFn
18:10	rhickey	fns would have invoke(long) as well
18:11	chouser	I think you need one or the other -- fns that return primitives so you can do (get myvec i) and get an int, or escape analysis+IReduce so that hotspot can see boxing isn't needed.
18:11	dnolen	rhickey: perhaps I'm doing the wrong thing? I see that count is faster, nth seems slower. map seems to be identical. instantiation slower, conj a bit slower.
18:12	slyphon	there was some toss-away line in the pragmatic-programmer clojure book, mentioning that you should always do (clojure.core/use 'clojure.core)
18:12	hiredman	map would call seq anyway
18:12	chouser	heh. a little like perl contexts. call the fn in an long context ...
18:12	slyphon	when moving to a new namespace
18:12	rhickey	dnolen: are you running lots of iterations? warmed-up jvm, -server etc?
18:12	hiredman	slyphon: only if using in-ns
18:12	slyphon	oh, mm'kay
18:13	hiredman	slyphon: the ns macro takes care of it for you
18:13	slyphon	ah, allright
18:13	hiredman	there is also a short cut called refer-clojure
18:13	dnolen	rhickey: I am, lots of iterations, warmed up jvm.
18:13	hiredman	,(doc refer-clojure)
18:13	clojurebot	"([& filters]); Same as (refer 'clojure.core <filters>)"
18:13	slyphon	rhickey: btw, kudos!
18:13	slyphon	a lisp that doesn't smell like old jazzmen
18:13	rhickey	slyphon: on what?
18:14	rhickey	ah
18:14	slyphon	indeed
18:14	chouser	instead, one that smells like fresh jasmine!
18:14	rhickey	groan
18:14	slyphon	Live at Birdland, still my favorite
18:17	dnolen	rhickey: my unscientific numbers http://paste.lisp.org/display/94878
18:19	chouser	there! Just finished all the unsupported j.u.Collection methods for vector-of
18:19	rhickey	chouser: whoa - awesome!
18:20	chouser	the unsupported ones, not the ones that need code.
18:20	rhickey	ah
18:20	chouser	:-)
18:20	chouser	sorry
18:20	rhickey	still useful, thanks!
18:21	chouser	I should still use (Util/equiv ...) for item equality?
18:21	rhickey	dnolen: you should put each of those (time ...) in a (dotimes [_ 10] ...)
18:21	chouser	or just =
18:22	rhickey	=
18:22	rhickey	but only when you mean equiv. When implementing j.u.Collection semantics you often need .equals
18:22	rhickey	see the existing impls
18:23	chouser	contains currently uses equiv. I'll pay attention.
18:24	rhickey	I'll not contend it's all perfect, but esp critical when defining equality so it's symmetric
18:26	rhickey	another nice thing about normalizing to Long will be the option of doing away with equiv. == should be the numeric-type-ignoring comparison, never used in collections
18:28	dnolen	rhickey: ok, done, results pretty much the same. tho map does seems a tad faster which is cool since that is the more common case.
18:29	chouser	bah. toArray returns Object[]
18:30	rhickey	dnolen: really, those benchmarks aren't very useful. You'd need to wrap everything in functions that were run many times etc.
18:30	rhickey	also many outlier times include a gc.
18:31	rhickey	in a larger app, those gcs might be mich faster as there wouldn't be toms of tenured boxed numbers
18:31	rhickey	much, tons
18:31	rhickey	in any case, not promising more than parity at present
18:32	dnolen	rhickey: good to hear that it's my naive understand on of the JVM at work again :) so will generic vectors support transient?
18:32	dnolen	understand -> understanding
18:32	rhickey	dnolen: yes, but transients are going to move into symbiosis with what I've been calling 'cells'
18:33	LauJensen	I've written a small tribute to Steve Ballmer on behalf of you guys: http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2010/02/my-tribute-to-steve-ballmer/ :)
18:34	dnolen	rhickey: oh yeah, so many new things hard to keep track ;) but I get the feeling that the goal is to get it so that math ops on vectors of primitives can compete with Java arrays eventually? no?
18:35	rhickey	dnolen: that's one goal, another is parallel ops
18:35	dnolen	I loathe resorting to make-array
18:35	dnolen	rhickey: fantastic.
18:38	rhickey	the Iterator interface dictates mutability
18:38	chouser	yes.
18:38	rhickey	but yeah, that
18:38	chouser	is an atom ok here?
18:39	rhickey	I encountered in Vec also, for hash caching
18:40	rhickey	chouser: maybe AtomicInteger
18:40	chouser	ok
18:40	rhickey	If we never want to write Java, will need some story for these
18:42	chouser	huh, look at that. The "favicon" on the java docs is a java cup now instead of a sun logo.
18:42	rhickey	since second object overhead often unacceptable
18:53	chouser	ok, now Collection is done.
19:15	arohner	how evil is this? http://gist.github.com/303136
19:30	slyphon	what's the significance of the '&' in a defn arg-list?
19:32	arohner	slyphon: it means the fn can take extra args
19:32	slyphon	ah
19:33	arohner	the variable after the & takes all of the "leftover" args, in a seq
19:33	slyphon	ah
19:33	slyphon	so it's the varargs collector
19:33	arohner	yeah
19:33	slyphon	ok
19:33	slyphon	ty
20:33	danlarkin	Tha'sa me!
21:30	qed	Anyone know how to do SSL connections with clojure? I'm trying to connect to an https site which has a l/p so I can scrape it with enlive.
21:31	qed	I thought it was basic auth, but that doesn't appear to be the case...
21:36	dnolen	qed: you should probably look into a Java lib, looking on StackOverflow seem to suggest using Apache HTTP components.
22:04	qed	my paredit-mode is horribly horribly broken
22:10	slyphon	so, a proxy is essentially a way of subclassing a Java class?
22:10	slyphon	(one purpose of a proxy)
22:12	chouser	yes
22:13	slyphon	i'm trying to wrap PircBot, and i'm having trouble figuring out how to actually accomplish the task
22:13	slyphon	i did this in scala, but that's a different beast altogether
22:15	qed	anyone here know how to fix {} in paredit-mode?
22:21	qed	aghhh! paredit-mode, why have you failed me? Why dost thou curly braces fail to work?
22:29	_mst	I use: http://paste.lisp.org/display/94892
22:35	Raynes	Oh noes. I think I've offended Steve Dekorte. It's not my fault his language is 8 years old, but still looks as if was released last Saturday. :\
22:36	JonSmith	who is steve dekorte?
22:36	Raynes	JonSmith: Lead developer of Io.
22:36	JonSmith	ooh
22:36	JonSmith	that is kind of a neat language
22:36	qed	Io is neat
22:37	Raynes	It's just, in my opinion, a language should just give up if it's been around for 8 years and nobody knows how to deploy an application outside of embedding it.
22:37	Raynes	And even then, I'm not sure it's documented.
22:37	qed	Io was always a toy to me
22:37	JonSmith	oh
22:37	qed	was he trying to make it a serious production language?
22:37	Raynes	It could be more than a toy, but obviously they don't care enough to make it one.
22:38	JonSmith	well not every language is meant to be deployed everywhere
22:38	Raynes	qed: There has been lots of talk about Io finding a niche.
22:38	qed	i learned a little bit about it when i was on a Ruby kick
22:38	qed	Raynes: I don't really see one beyond "fun to play with and learn about for a weekend" :X
22:38	Raynes	JonSmith: Io is supposed to be a general purpose programming language, and isn't just meant for embedding.
22:38	qed	why wouldnt you just use Ruby/JRuby?
22:39	qed	_mst: paredit-open-brace and close-brace are void function definitions
22:40	JonSmith	oz looks like a neat language too
22:40	Raynes	Ola Bini kind of jumps back and forth about whether or not he intends to speed Ioke up any at all. A while back he said he would focus on it for a while after about a year or two, but he's pretty convinced that Ioke will never perform well in the slightest.
22:41	_mst	qed: hmm... my paredit.el has: (define-paredit-pair ?\{ ?\} "brace")
22:41	_mst	I wonder if I hacked that in :)
22:41	qed	_mst: i needed paredit-open-curly
22:41	qed	/close-curly
22:41	_mst	ah, right. Maybe version differences or something
22:45	qed	here's a question...
22:45	qed	let's say I type a [, paredit-mode gives me [\|] function arg1
22:46	qed	i then type C-) to slurp function, then arg1
22:46	qed	i find it rather annoying that the result of this is [\|function arg1]
22:47	qed	granted all i have to do is C-d to get rid of that extra space, but it seems like it should slurp without that extra space in front
22:47	somnium	anyone seen coffeescript on github?
22:47	somnium	language 'refurbishing' is an interesting approach
22:49	JonSmith	yeah is pretty clever technique
22:52	qed	somnium: i havent seen it, got a link?
22:52	somnium	http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
22:57	somnium	could use a little less syntax and some kind of metaprogramming, but its impressive what was done with a fresh parser and a few macro(like-thing)s
22:57	JonSmith	scriptjure is kind of like that
22:57	JonSmith	except it is more literally javascript with lisp syntax
22:57	somnium	scriptjure doesnt add any semantics does it?
22:58	JonSmith	i bet you could write some good scriptjure macros to add semantics
22:58	JonSmith	nope
22:58	JonSmith	i had to hack in aget myself :-P
22:58	JonSmith	i should upstream that
23:00	somnium	I wrote something in that vein, though its a bit overly complicated at this point
23:01	somnium	http://github.com/somnium/scryptica
23:01	somnium	it has TCO and varargs and other stuff, though its still rather quirky atm :/
23:02	JonSmith	yeah that is a similar vein
23:02	qed	that is really cool stuff
23:02	JonSmith	http://github.com/arohner/scriptjure
23:02	JonSmith	you got tco in there?
23:02	JonSmith	nice
23:02	qed	i really like the idea of cleaning up an old language and making it usable
23:02	somnium	and proper let scoping
23:03	somnium	though sadly it doesnt solve the for-loop problem
23:03	qed	what's it called when you write a new syntax for expressing an existing language?
23:03	JonSmith	what is the for-loop problem?
23:04	somnium	if you create closures in a for loop, only the final value gets bound in all closures
23:04	JonSmith	ooh
23:04	somnium	have to double wrap, if ecmascript ever actually adds let to the language it will go away
23:04	JonSmith	yeah that is a problem
23:04	somnium	pita though
23:06	slyphon	is there a pub/sub framework in contrib?
23:07	slyphon	er "feeling"
23:07	JonSmith	in what way pub sub?
23:08	slyphon	callbacks, like "when this event occurs, call these functions"
23:08	slyphon	i'm reading about agents and the concurrency features, i'm just not really sure how to piece it together yet
23:09	JonSmith	oh
23:11	slyphon	i'd normally have a "dispatch" thread, so events would get added to a queue, and the dispatch thread would call the handler in a worker pool
23:14	chouser	agents may or may not do what you want there.
23:15	slyphon	yeah, i'm not really sure, it kinda seems like it does what i want it to do
23:15	chouser	it's perfectly acceptible to use workflow management classes from java.util.concurrent
23:15	slyphon	hrm
23:15	JonSmith	yeah
23:15	slyphon	that's a good idea
23:15	JonSmith	another nice thing i've been playing with is the erlang java library
23:16	JonSmith	you can do send/receive and stuff
23:16	slyphon	ah
23:16	JonSmith	i have my clojure sending/receiving with yaws
23:16	JonSmith	it is hilarious
23:16	slyphon	yaws?
23:16	JonSmith	ya
23:16	JonSmith	erlang web server?
23:17	slyphon	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaws
23:17	slyphon	sounds painful
23:17	JonSmith	was kind of a fun weekend project
23:17	qed	I asked this in here earlier but I lost my buffer. Does anyone know how to connect to an https:// SSL site with clojure? I'm trying to scrape a site with enlive that is https.
23:17	qed	I googled but couldn't find anything
23:18	slyphon	well
23:18	slyphon	you could use apache-httpclient
23:18	JonSmith	clojure starts, spawns yaws as a sub-process, configures itself as an app mod and then spawns threads from a threadpool for requests
23:18	slyphon	which is quite complete
23:18	qed	slyphon: is that a clojure library?
23:18	slyphon	qed: uh, no?
23:18	JonSmith	apache-http is good
23:18	JonSmith	there is a clj-apache-http
23:18	slyphon	oh word?
23:18	slyphon	nice
23:19	JonSmith	http://github.com/rnewman/clj-apache-http
23:19	slyphon	JonSmith: wow, that's...pretty crazy
23:19	slyphon	:)
23:19	JonSmith	yeah seriously
23:19	slyphon	apache-http is cool, but it's like they took every single word in RFC 2616 and made it a class
23:19	JonSmith	i should polish it up and post it to github or something
23:20	JonSmith	yeah which is why you wrap it in macros endlessly
23:20	qed	thanks for the suggestion -- ill try it out
23:22	slyphon	it saved my ass writing this data importer, i kept running out of open sockets (they got left in TIME_WAIT), but apache-http's threadpool/socket managment does a really awesome job
23:25	qed	weird. paredit with my curly fix now at least lets me insert {} with a {, but i can now delete the } and the { wont be affected. Any ideas?
23:29	somnium	wow, Lau's latest blog post is truly truly awesome
23:30	slyphon	qed: stop using emacs?
23:30	slyphon	i keed! i keed!
23:32	somnium	http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/2010/02/my-tribute-to-steve-ballmer/
23:36	JonSmith	yeah that was pretty hilarious
23:37	slyphon	wow, macroexpand ftw
23:37	technomancy	slyphon: wow, long time no see.
23:37	slyphon	technomancy: oh hai!
23:38	slyphon	how goes?
23:38	technomancy	not too shabbily.
23:38	slyphon	:)
23:38	technomancy	haven't seen you in what... four years? five?
23:38	slyphon	something like that
23:38	slyphon	you used to hang out in #twisted, right?
23:39	technomancy	#ruby-lang, actually
23:39	slyphon	oh, right right
23:39	technomancy	around 05-06
23:39	technomancy	"before it was cool"
23:39	slyphon	yeah, that's right when i made the jump
23:39	slyphon	hahahaha
23:39	slyphon	yeah, before all the railtards came in and ruined it
23:40	technomancy	how's clojure treating you?
23:40	slyphon	pretty good
23:41	slyphon	i spent some time long ago getting insulted by the #cl guys, so i have some grounding in lisp
23:41	technomancy	battle scars, I see
23:41	slyphon	:)
23:41	slyphon	and the thought of a lisp that a) understands that there's "a whole world out there" and b) can use java libs is pretty sweet
23:42	slyphon	how about you?
23:51	technomancy	I'm working on leiningen, my build tool
23:51	technomancy	hope to get a release out soon
23:51	slyphon	oh nice
23:52	slyphon	ohhhh
23:52	slyphon	nice, i saw this
23:52	slyphon	i remember the tagline :D
23:52	Drakeson	how would you turn a map a url? {:a 10, :b 20, :c "xx yy"} -> a=10&b=20&c=xx+yy
23:53	hiredman	reduce is the easiest way
23:53	technomancy	Drakeson: (str-join "&" (map (partial str-join "=") my-map))
23:53	technomancy	str-join coming from clojure.contrib.str-utils
23:53	technomancy	or c.c.string if you're following git master
23:53	hiredman	technomancy: keywords
23:53	technomancy	oh bugger, good point
23:54	technomancy	plus you'd need to URL-encode each value
23:54	technomancy	well I never pass up a good opportunity to use reduce
23:54	hiredman	reduce it is!
23:54	hiredman	reduce and format and URLEncoder/encode
23:55	hiredman	and name
23:55	Drakeson	I see, thanks. Although I was hoping for one that is already made, instead of my possibly buggy version :p
23:56	technomancy	I'd be surprised if there wasn't something in compojure, but I've only played with it briefly
23:57	Drakeson	good point, I was sifting through clojure-contrib