#clojure – 2010-02-11

2010-02-11

01:51	Raynes	http://jobs.arstechnica.com/list/543/?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed "are pragmatic enough to understand that clojure is not a cure for cancer..."
01:51	Raynes	Heh heh. It's a job offer.
02:00	herdrick
02:01	herdrick	,indexed
02:01	clojurebot	#<seq_utils$indexed__697 clojure.contrib.seq_utils$indexed__697@19cc8fd>
02:07	DeusExPikachu	Raynes, it doesn't cure cancer "yet"...
02:07	DeusExPikachu	:)
02:34	LauJensen	Good morning all
03:41	ordnungswidrig	re
04:53	neotyk	~def for
05:04	LauJensen	~source for
05:07	Licenser_	I wonder, is there a way to get a better help during problems then: java.lang.NullPointerException (NO_SOURCE_FILE:1)?
05:15	AWizzArd	Licenser_: well, you could step through your code with a debugger.
05:16	AWizzArd	Although I must admit that I always had heavy problem with using debuggers for Clojure code.
05:18	ordnungswidrig	error reporting must definitively improve
05:20	AWizzArd	I agree.
05:20	AWizzArd	It would be great if JSwat would simply work.
05:21	AWizzArd	It was working better in older versions. Maybe this really is the mistake of JSwat and not Clojure.
05:23	AWizzArd	If JSwat would work I would constantly have it opened during development.
05:27	fullets	What's an idiomatic way to go from [:a :b :c :d] -> [:a :c] (i.e., transform a sequence to a sequence containing every other item of the input)
05:29	AWizzArd	fullets: you can do (vec (take-nth 2 [:a :b :c :d])) ==> [:a :c]
05:29	fullets	AWizzArd: Excellent, thanks!
06:14	Licenser_	AWizzArd: thank you for the hint
06:16	zab	hi im having trouble using vimclojure
06:16	zab	im opening a file called 'hello_world.clj' and it gives me: Couldn't execute Nail! java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate hello_world__init.class or hello_world.clj on classpath:
06:17	zab	'hello_world.clj' has a namespace declaration at the top of the file. if i open another .clj file without a namespace, it loads fine
06:18	zab	anyone know what's up?
06:19	cypher23	zab, the ng server needs the correct class path, so it can find your files
06:20	cypher23	e.g. if your file is located under src/my/namespace/hello_world.clj, you need to make sure that 'src' is on the Classpath for the nailgun server
06:20	cypher23	The way I do it is start the ng server inside the src dir, and have "." on the classpath
06:22	zab	hmm okay. i've added the directory to the classpath. i've just added it to the environment variable in my ~/.profile (mac os box). i now get a slightly different message
06:22	zab	Couldn't execute Nail! java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate compojure__init.class or compojure.clj on classpath:
06:22	cypher23	well, now it can't find compojure :)
06:22	zab	yeah i put the path to compojure in my classpath as well though :(
06:23	cypher23	do you have compojure in source form, or as a jar?
06:23	zab	jar
06:23	triyo	What would be the equivalent in Clojure of the CL's atom symbol?
06:23	cypher23	did you add the dir the jar is in, or the path to the jar?
06:24	Licenser_	any advice about debugging with emacs and clojure?
06:24	zab	the dir the jar is in but with a wildcard
06:24	zab	i.e. ~/vim/vendor/vimclojure/compojure/*
06:25	cypher23	zab, yeah, that never works for me, at least on os x. you have to add each jar individually
06:25	zab	cypher23: yikes even the dependancies?
06:25	cypher23	zab, http://gist.github.com/301431
06:25	cypher23	that's how I do it (I have all my jars symlinked into ~/classes/)
06:26	zab	okay that's certainly nicer than what was rushing through my head
06:26	cypher23	zab, no idea. I'm not a Java person, so all this CLASSPATH dealings are somewhat arcane to me :)
06:27	tomoj	triyo: I don't think there is one, really
06:27	zab	cypher23: obviously i am in the same boat. not a Java person either. :)
06:27	tomoj	zab, cypher23: I haven't scrolled up to see what you're really talking about, but have you looked at lein?
06:28	tomoj	I haven't worried about CLASSPATH in quite a while
06:28	zab	tomoj: i've seen mention of lein in several places but never really explored it.
06:28	tomoj	I see a mention of nailgun though, dunno how/if lein could work with that
06:28	cypher23	tomoj, no, not yet. Still basically doing my first steps in Clojure
06:28	tomoj	ah, ok
06:28	cypher23	tomoj, yeah, nailgun can be a bit tricky to get it up and running
06:29	tomoj	hmm
06:29	tomoj	actually it appears there is a lein-nailgun plugin :D
06:30	esj	cypher23: indeed, getting everything in place the first time is very trying, but be strong: its worth it.
06:30	tomoj	supposedly you can just add it to your dev-dependencies and then do 'lein nailgun' to start a nailgun server
06:31	esj	yeah, its supposed to do the same for emacs with lein swank, but I had some classpath issues I was too stupid to resolve :(
06:31	tomoj	hmm
06:32	tomoj	I had some classpath issues once, but after a recent upgrade they disappeared
06:32	tomoj	(I use lein-swank)
06:33	cypher23	esj, it's mostly the Java stuff that trips me up. Clojure itself has been quite nice so far.
06:33	esj	you and me both, but the bump doesn't take too long to get over
06:34	cypher23	I hope :)
06:38	AWizzArd	Maybe you two can rewrite the JVM in Clojure :)
06:40	tomoj	hmm
06:40	tomoj	I had never considered clojure hosting itself
06:40	tomoj	it's possible, right?
06:41	tomoj	would just require distributing an already compiled version, I think?
06:43	AWizzArd	It is possible, and in fact this is a work in progress.
06:43	ambient	well you need some backend, if not jvm then win32/elf machine code at least
06:43	tomoj	right
06:43	AWizzArd	It already has begun. Yesterday Master Hickey implemented lots of stuff of Vectors in pure Clojure.
06:44	tomoj	I had always just thought of cinc as a way to get clojure on other virtual machines
06:44	tomoj	not as possibly taking us closer to clojure compiling itself
06:44	ambient	it is, but it can do so much more.. :)
06:44	ambient	at least how i understand it
06:45	ambient	implementing a scheme compiler in scheme opened my eyes a bit of the possibilities
06:45	tomoj	bit shifts are inlined, hurrah
06:46	zab	hmm, i'm fairly sure my classpath is all sorted now thanks to cypher23, but now i get:Couldn't execute Nail! java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError (hello_world.clj:0) at clojure.lang.Compiler.eval(Compiler.java:4543)
06:48	tomoj	what is this implicit arg stuff? http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/commit/277f0235c1387ddd6247a72857597814a3e10bc3
06:50	tomoj	oh, http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/242
06:51	LauJensen	Wonder why the ticket doesnt explain the pitfalls
06:52	tomoj	pitfalls?
06:53	AWizzArd	Moin cemerick.
06:54	cypher23	zab, how does your hello_world.clj look like?
06:55	LauJensen	tomoj: I think if your macro generates an fn which it internally depend on, then it will break with this change
06:55	LauJensen	clarify: depends on it having a particular signature
06:58	tomoj	hmm, I figured that was for code internal to clojure
07:01	zab	cypher23: it's the first 'hello.clj' example here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Compojure/Getting_Started
07:02	LauJensen	zab, long story short, head to my blog, read "installing slime", "beating the arc challenge", "reddit clone 1", "reddit clone 2", and you'll be a webguru in no time: http://www.bestinclass.dk/index.php/blog
07:05	zab	LauJensen: i'm just starting out in clojure. your blog has some good content. will definitely check it out. once i get vimclojure working. :(
07:06	LauJensen	zab: great, but the reason I mentioned "installing slime" as the first stop, was not so that you could continue in Vim :)
07:07	zab	LauJensen: hah! yes well it will take more than a few hardships getting vimclojure set up, to get me to move away from vim.
07:08	LauJensen	Ok - Its also worth saying, that VimClojure is pretty great actually
07:09	ohpauleez	fwiw, I love vimclojure. I don't use the repl stuff, but I do use the completion and doc lookup
07:09	zab	LauJensen: yeah I've been playing with the REPL and I'm able to send my current buffer to it, no problems. I really like what I've seen so far.
07:09	underdev	10 year vimmer here- emacs is impressing the heck out of me. Esp since i'm lisping, i've learned some stuff just setting up emacs.
07:09	cypher23	zab, as a workaround, you could just have a REPL running in a shell next to Vim, and just keep calling (require 'hello-world :reload) to reload your file
07:10	underdev	but vim is excellent, and i had to start editing my .emacs file with it
07:10	underdev	and most other situations i find i'm still opening text with vim
07:10	LauJensen	cypher23: May I henceforth address you as Mr. Fred Flintstone ?
07:11	cypher23	I don't have a pet dinosaur :)
07:11	underdev	in other situations (like tcl) i used screen to have a top window of vim and a bottom one of the repl
07:12	LauJensen	cypher23: well... technically you do :D
07:12	zab	cypher23, LauJensen heh. yeah not ideal. i'm still going to pursue this VimClojure setup. but good to know.
07:12	LauJensen	zab: Most evenings CET kotarak hangs out in here, he built it
07:13	cypher23	zab, you could wait for kotarak, he can probably help you out (he helped me a lot)
07:13	zab	LauJensen, cypher23: cool. I'm so close to it, I can taste it.
07:14	cypher23	LauJensen, I do?
07:14	LauJensen	cypher23: You use Vim right ?
07:15	cypher23	LauJensen, sometimes
07:17	LauJensen	Anyway, enough Vim bashing, lets drop the subject and pick it back up again in 20 minz or so :)
07:19	cypher23	hehe, k
07:20	LauJensen	A wee bit OT, but does anybody know if ZyXEL NSA-210 supports SSH ?
07:22	somnium	http://gist.github.com/301463 << spontaneous attempt at coaxing more error info out of exceptions. is there a better way to terminate execution?
07:32	zab	hooray i have VimClojure working with Compojure.
07:33	zab	turns out I didn't have the same clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar files that I compiled compojure against, in the classpath
07:34	zab	i'm able to load files which require compojure fine now, except upon loading it, vim gives me: E15: Invalid expression: 2010-02-11 23:27:50.193::INFO: Logging to STDERR via org.mortbay.log.StdErrLog^@clojure.proxy.javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet
07:34	zab	anyone seen this before?
07:39	AWizzArd	rhickey: Hi. I think I just discovered a bug in Clojures compiler. When I try to compile my namespace it tells me (Windows XP) that the file name is wrong. I found out that this happens when I try to compile a deftype which contains a slot which contains a questionmark in its name.
07:40	AWizzArd	While for example vars are translated into foo$somefn_QMARK__2457.class this seems to not happen with slots inside deftypes.
07:41	zab	gg, thanks for your help everybody.
07:43	AWizzArd	Can any windows user please try to confirm this issue? Put this into a file yourcp/bar/foos.clj (ns bar.foos) (deftype Foo [a b c?])
07:43	AWizzArd	When you then do (binding [compile-path "yourcp/build/"] (compile 'bar.foos)) you should see an error message.
07:44	AWizzArd	maybe under Linux this is a problem too, don't know how questionsmarks are handled.
07:51	triyo	Any Clojurians here read the OnLisp book and attempted to implemented the solutions in Clojure?
07:57	lpetit	triyo: sure. For example: http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/tags/on%20lisp
07:59	triyo	lpetit: thanks. Thats great. I'm working on chapter 19 - Query compiler part. Hope I didn't bite of more then I can chew.
07:59	triyo	so far so good
08:06	Licenser_	hjmm can anyone give me an advice here? when adding a emacs swank option I get let: Wrong type argument: listp, "-Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888"?
08:07	Licenser_	ah found it had to add '( arund it
08:10	Licenser_	oh my got jswat is not doing what I expect
08:12	AWizzArd	Yeah, because you can not set break points and such.
08:19	krumholt	if i have only one ref in my program i want an atom instead right?
08:19	AWizzArd	krumholt: not necessarily
08:20	AWizzArd	I will tell you in .de ;-)
08:31	ordnungswidrig	me is building a validation library. The name of some validation functions clash or nearly clash with existing functions, what would you suggest to be a good solution? Using a prefix, like v-odd or !odd ?
08:32	ordnungswidrig	Maybe I should use some macro to build a validation dsl?
08:33	AWizzArd	ordnungswidrig: don't know if possible, but perhaps the validation fns can have the same name, and your Data Structures can extend a Protocol?
08:33	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: that's what namespaces are for
08:34	ordnungswidrig	cemerick: sure. hm, I see. you mean put the validation functions in foo.validation and import the ns a "v" so that I can use v/all v/odd v/or ?
08:35	AWizzArd	If you can use protocols, if they make sense, then they can free you from that naming problem. Otherwise you are only shifting it to some other level.
08:35	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: Yup. There's sometimes a bit of an art to naming the alias ("v" in your example), but it's the way to go.
08:35	AWizzArd	Namespaces or slightly differently named fns don't resolve polymorphically.
08:36	cemerick	AWizzArd: having name clashes is not a reason to use protocols.
08:36	cemerick	Plenty of good reasons to do so, but none of them have anything to do with namespace issues.
08:36	ordnungswidrig	cemerick: so I end up with ((v/all (v/in :name (v/applied count (v/less-than 5))) (v/in :age (v/greater-than 20))) { :name "John" :age 16})
08:37	ordnungswidrig	cemerick: using a clever macro I could eventually reduce this to (validate (all (in :name (applied count (less-than 5))) (in :age (greter-than 20))) ...)
08:38	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: sure. Alternatively, if you're using that namespace constantly, you could use the whole thing, and exclude or rename the same-named fns from other namespaces.
08:39	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: Totally not worth it, IMO. namespaces are there to solve these issues, and make it obvious to those who come after you what's going on. A macro is just source-level obfuscation in this case.
08:39	ordnungswidrig	when I want to have an open set to validators which can be used as "keys" in the above dsl then I need to use some kind of registry, right? a map like { :all v/all :prime my.custom/prime }
08:39	AWizzArd	cemerick: for name clashes you are right. I just saw the indicator that ordnungswidrig likes to have many fns that should in principle have an identical name.
08:40	AWizzArd	And this is a potentially a signal that Protocols may help.
08:40	ordnungswidrig	or I can omit a macro and use keywords: (validate :all [:in :name :applied :count :less-than 5] [:in :age :greater-than 20] ...)
08:40	cemerick	AWizzArd: Maybe, maybe. Without knowing more, I wouldn't recommend them, though.
08:41	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: well, in that case, a macro makes a lot of sense, insofar as it would "compile" that DSL so that you don't have to do so at runtime.
08:41	AWizzArd	Yes, too early for a recommendation.
08:42	ordnungswidrig	AWizzArd: the validation shall be independent from the data type. you can validate a string against it's content or it's lenght. I don't see how protocols fall in place there.
08:43	AWizzArd	ordnungswidrig: and multimethods also can't help?
08:43	ordnungswidrig	cemerick: is there some support for DSLs like that in a lib? In my case it'd be rather simplistic
08:44	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: not sure I grok your question -- are you looking for an example of macro usage like that?
08:44	somnium	ordnungswidrig: you would be parsing :less-than-5 into #(< % 5) ?
08:44	AWizzArd	ordnungswidrig: it would be very much work to make it work with Protocols and strings. But you could invent funny Types, such as StringWithLessThan100Chars or StringThatContainsNoFs :)
08:44	ordnungswidrig	cemerick: I have a basic understanding of macros. I think I can go with it.
08:45	ordnungswidrig	somnium: the predicates like #(< % 5) are lifted to be a validator which returns a map, e.g { :level :error :validator :less-than :info 5 }
08:46	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: OK. FWIW, enlive has a pretty extensive DSL for defining CSS selectors, which it compiles to finite state machines for walking HTML/XML nodes. That's not a simple example, but you can look at its API for an idea of how usage might look like your case?
08:46	ordnungswidrig	somnium: I need this to validate nested structures and consolidate on the error level
08:46	ordnungswidrig	cemerick: that is a good idea!
08:47	unomi	Hi, anyone around?
08:47	ordnungswidrig	unomi: hmm, no :)
08:47	unomi	thats a shame :(
08:47	unomi	ordnungswidrig: are you a contributor?
08:47	cemerick	heh, this channel is hardly ever quiet anymore :-)
08:48	ordnungswidrig	unomi: contributor? no, I don't think so.
08:48	unomi	I am wondering if I could ask you guys some questions about your code repo
08:48	ordnungswidrig	pastie
08:48	cemerick	lisppaste8: url?
08:48	ordnungswidrig	where's clojurebot?
08:48	unomi	you are on assembla right?
08:48	cemerick	ordnungswidrig: OK, the bot's down, again :-/
08:48	AWizzArd	bot is sleeping
08:48	ordnungswidrig	bot is depressed
08:48	cemerick	unomi: that's where the issue tracker and dev wiki is.
08:49	unomi	would you recommend it?
08:49	cemerick	I'm not a huge fan, but it's worked for Rich's requirements.
08:49	ordnungswidrig	shall I gist or shall I pase...
08:50	ordnungswidrig	s/e/t&/
08:51	ordnungswidrig	For whom is interested: this is what I have for now: http://gist.github.com/301521
08:51	ordnungswidrig	And the validator definition is a little verbose for my eyes.
08:52	jcromartie	somnium: is support for dbref planned in congomongo
08:53	AWizzArd	Oh, what is dbref?
08:53	AWizzArd	Sounds like one of my data structures.
08:53	somnium	jcromartie: not currently. storing object-ids is just as effective with less ceremony
08:54	the-kenny	AWizzArd: a data type which refers to another entry in the database.
08:54	AWizzArd	good
08:54	jcromartie	dbref isn's a datatype
08:54	jcromartie	it's just a convention
08:54	the-kenny	oh ok, sorry
08:54	AWizzArd	And what is congomongo?
08:54	jcromartie	{$ref: "column_name", $id: "the object id"}
08:55	somnium	jcromartie: is there a use case where holding object-ids isnt sufficient?
08:55	the-kenny	AWizzArd: a client for mongodb in clojure
08:55	jcromartie	congomongo is a clojure wrapper around the Java mongodb driver
08:55	jcromartie	somnium: no but dbref is the convention in mongo
08:55	AWizzArd	And MongoDB is not relational but document oriented?
08:55	jcromartie	right
08:56	jcromartie	dbref optionally supports cross-database references
08:56	jcromartie	and it includes the collection name
08:56	jcromartie	it would enable automatic dereferencing language-side
08:57	somnium	jcromartie: well, theyre supported in the java-driver, so patches welcome
08:57	jcromartie	ah, cool
08:57	jcromartie	ok
08:57	jcromartie	I am a total n00b when it comes to these drivers :)
08:58	somnium	I just havent seen anyone use them :) its a map with :db, :object-id, :collection right? why not just use a map
08:58	somnium	but maybe Im not understanding
08:59	jcromartie	it is just a map
08:59	jcromartie	just a convention
08:59	jcromartie	http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/DB+Ref
08:59	jcromartie	(or an object in JSON terms)
09:01	somnium	ah, they use it like an embedded query
09:01	somnium	well, patches welcome :)
09:13	esj	i'm using congomongo
09:13	esj	admittedly, only for a couple of days now...
09:14	krumholt	can something bad happen if i throw an exception inside a transaction?
09:14	jcromartie	krumholt: that's what transactions are for
09:14	jcromartie	they don't commit if an exception is thrown
09:15	krumholt	so i can throw my own exceptions inside transactions?
09:15	jcromartie	yeah, but they don't bubble up
09:15	jcromartie	err, sorry, that's for agents
09:15	jcromartie	yeah you can throw your own
09:16	krumholt	ok thanks
09:17	AWizzArd	You can get Exceptions out of an agent, but it is a little bit hackish.
09:57	_fogus_	,(cond nil 1 nil 2 :lollipop "POP")
09:58	_fogus_	Clojure-bot must be shoveling also
10:06	pdk	that gives "POP" in the console
10:08	chouser	pdk: clojurebot? Is that you?
10:09	pdk	in the form of an s expression please
10:09	chouser	pdk: (= you clojurebot)
10:09	AWizzArd	~max people
10:09	clojurebot	max people is 246
10:09	esj	he's in disguise
10:09	pdk	now gotta define 'you'
10:09	esj	tired of being asked silly questions all day long
10:09	pdk	and where's the comma :\|
10:19	powr-toc	Does anyone know why leiningen is setting my projects root directory to src/myproject, rather than the root directory where my project.clj file is???
10:19	powr-toc	lein swank - specifically
10:23	esj	never figured that out - using swank-clojure-project directly instead
10:23	powr-toc	esj: so I'm not the only one then? :-)
10:23	esj	well, you're in poor company, but not alone.
10:24	powr-toc	lol
10:24	Jomyoot	Does clojure.contrib.sql support talking to 2 db simultaneously
10:26	powr-toc	esj: swank-clojure-project does it too :-(
10:26	esj	oh, now you've lost even your poor company
10:26	esj	mine asks me what the root directory is
10:27	powr-toc	esj: so does mine... but (import java.io.File) (. (File. ".") getAbsolutePath) tells me the JVM is running without that as its root dir
10:27	fdaoud	hi all
10:28	Jomyoot	I need to use 2 databases simultaneously. how do I do that with with-connection* ?
10:28	fdaoud	what's the easiest way to convert {:a 1 :b 2} to {"a" 1 "b" 2} ?
10:30	tomoj	hmm
10:30	tomoj	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(name k) v]) {:a 1 :b 2}))
10:30	clojurebot	{"a" 1, "b" 2}
10:30	powr-toc	Jomyoot: Don't know specifically, but with-foo's usually setup bindings, i.e. vars... so you should be able to nest them
10:30	tomoj	awfully ugly
10:30	fdaoud	I had
10:31	esj	powr-toc: you're correct - I dunno, i was referring to the root in the classpath, sorry.
10:31	tomoj	,(letfn [(map-keys [f m] (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(f k) v]) m)))] (map-keys name {:a 1 :b 2}))
10:31	clojurebot	{"a" 1, "b" 2}
10:32	fdaoud	tomoj: i had something like that (but yours is better), but i thought there was a less convoluted way
10:32	powr-toc	esj: it seems like a bug to me
10:32	fdaoud	,(let [m {:a 1 :b 2}] (apply array-map (map (fn [k v] [(name k) v]) (keys m) (vals m))))
10:32	clojurebot	{["a" 1] ["b" 2]}
10:32	tomoj	I can't think of one if you want a map back
10:32	Jomyoot	I don't see binding option
10:32	fdaoud	thx tomoj
10:33	fdaoud	that will only do the top-level, right, not any nested maps?
10:33	tomoj	indeed
10:33	powr-toc	Jomyoot: can you pastie your code?
10:33	AWizzArd	Jomyoot: you can not have an overlapping transaction anyway, so could you not just first query db1, retrieve all results you need, and then query db2 with the information from the first run?
10:33	tomoj	also note that's not lazy
10:34	Jomyoot	Because I don't want to open/close connections all the time.
10:34	Jomyoot	I want to keep 2 DB connections open simultaneously
10:34	fdaoud	that's fine, i just need to pass the whole map to a Java method..
10:34	tomoj	ah
10:34	Jomyoot	(with-connection db -- opens up connection
10:34	fdaoud	but converting keywords to strings
10:34	tomoj	for nested maps it gets uglier :(
10:35	Jomyoot	THen I have (with-query-results rs -- to do the querying
10:35	AWizzArd	yes
10:35	Jomyoot	(with-query-results) does not allow me to specify which connection.
10:35	Jomyoot	AWizzArd: do you know how to help me?
10:35	fdaoud	indeed....but I thought for sure someone else needed that and there was a built-in or contrib function
10:35	tomoj	(letfn [(map-keys [f m] (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(f k) (if (associative? v) (map-keys f v) v)]) m)))] (map-keys name {:a {:foo 3 :bar {:baz 4}} :b 2}))
10:36	tomoj	I've often felt that way too
10:36	tomoj	mapping over maps sucks
10:36	powr-toc	Jomyoot: which library are these functions part of?
10:36	tomoj	when you want a map back, anyway
10:36	AWizzArd	Jomyoot: I don't see how it is possible what you want to do without going to some manual use of Java functions.
10:36	Jomyoot	clojure.contrib.sql
10:36	AWizzArd	Otherwise I would suggest you to first do one query, close the conn, then open the second and run that query.
10:37	Jomyoot	is there a different/better library for sql?
10:38	hiredman	Jomyoot: they all use dynamic binding unfortunately
10:38	AWizzArd	I think nearly all of them concentrate on using one db at a time.
10:38	tomoj	hmm
10:38	AWizzArd	You can however open two connections manually.
10:38	Jomyoot	How would one deal with sharding/replication then?
10:38	tomoj	can't you get around it by messing with db yourself?
10:38	hiredman	AWizzArd: concenctrate is the wrong word
10:38	AWizzArd	:)
10:40	tomoj	or using the clojure.contrib.sql.internal functions?
10:44	tomoj	(with-connection _ (let [db1 db] (with-connection _ (let [db2 db] _ (binding [db db1] _) (binding [db db2] _)))))
10:44	tomoj	:(
10:44	tomoj	of course you could wrap that up in a couple macros
10:44	hiredman	:\|
10:45	tomoj	I guess you'd be better off rewriting clojure.contrib.sql
10:45	tomoj	or wrapping it I mean
10:45	chouser	wow. that's what's wrong with having any args only passable via Var
10:45	hiredman	right
10:45	tomoj	clojureql doesn't do that, does it?
10:45	AWizzArd	chouser: what do you mean specifically?
10:46	chouser	AWizzArd: if looking at tomoj's code doesn't cause you pain, there's not much I can do for you.
10:46	chouser	er, that example in particular. not tomoj's code in general. :-)
10:46	tomoj	hehe
10:46	AWizzArd	^^
10:46	AWizzArd	Well, one could split it over several lines and nest it a little :-)
10:47	AWizzArd	But really, maybe Jomyoot can simply call some .java methods and have two DBs open at the same time.
10:47	tomoj	it's still just fundamentally evil
10:47	tomoj	well, there's get-connection in the internal ns
10:48	tomoj	but the problem is, the functions for doing db ops don't care
10:48	tomoj	you still have to bind db
10:48	tomoj	huh, I guess clojureql does the same thing?
10:48	cemerick	I was wondering about this the other day -- so every fn should always have at least two arities, one that takes an explicit env (db in this case), and another that just delegates to the former using the current value of the bound env?
10:48	hiredman	yes
10:49	tomoj	whyyy
10:49	chouser	right, you should always be able to pass in everything you need via regular args. Clojure's print fns suffer from the same issue.
10:49	tomoj	I'm pretty sure I remember reading a discussion about this for clojureql quite a while ago
10:49	tomoj	how did the var people win
10:49	cemerick	it makes the common case a lot cleaner, short of doing what I just suggested.
10:49	chouser	cemerick: I think so. It's ok to have separate fns if different arities are enough
10:50	tomoj	can we write a macro that makes it easy to do both?
10:50	chouser	aren't
10:50	cemerick	tomoj: that's just what I was thinking about
10:50	hiredman	all my database functions in clojurebot start with (binding [db db] ...)
10:50	chouser	(prn-to my-out foo bar)
10:50	tomoj	you need to specify what the implicit arg is and where it is in the args... would always first arg be good?
10:50	cemerick	trying to generally allow describe the various vars that might be in play is likely intractable tho
10:51	tomoj	in most cases, though, I think it's the first arg
10:51	chouser	hm. I bet if clojure's print fns did that it would help set the culter and expectations for other libs.
10:51	cemerick	arg position isn't the issue, its when there's multiple bindable vars
10:51	tomoj	though, a lot of these functions take &args I guess
10:51	chouser	rhickey: would you hate having prn-to, print-to, println-to, etc?
10:51	tomoj	cemerick: huh?
10:51	hiredman	cemerick: how often does that happen?
10:52	tomoj	it's usually just db, server-hostname, out, stuff like that, that I've seen
10:52	tomoj	maybe the macro can ask for a suffix to tack on to the function names so arity isn't an issue
10:52	rhickey	chouser: no, prn-to or prn-on?
10:52	tomoj	e.g. for query you could have query-db
10:52	cemerick	hiredman: more than you'd suspect
10:53	cemerick	once you're past trivial stuff, the usefulness of vars is hard to resist
10:53	chouser	rhickey: "to" seems more natural to me. or maybe "into"
10:53	fdaoud	tomoj: thanks for your help
10:53	hiredman	cemerick: I would argue the reverse
10:54	hiredman	once you are past the trival stuff, rebinding vars makes a ball of string of your functions
10:54	tomoj	in any case the pattern of having a var to pick out a resource and then functions which interact with the resource is common
10:55	rhickey	chouser: not into, streams are not containers/collections
10:55	cemerick	in many cases, the choices are (a) have a pile of vars, (b) thread lots of args, or (c) ball up the environment into an uber-map
10:55	hiredman	:(
10:56	hiredman	cemerick: (c)
10:56	cemerick	ugh. That's way messier than vars, IMO.
10:57	hiredman	cemerick: until you have to deal with two environments
10:57	cemerick	sure
10:58	cemerick	I generally try to ensure everything I do is thread-bound anyway (e.g. not using pmap, etc) -- even I'm not using vars at the moment, one of the libs I'm using might, etc.
10:58	cemerick	even if*
10:58	chouser	I'd be find with print-on, though that's not how I usually think of output streams.
10:59	hiredman	cemerick: :(
10:59	rhickey	generic vectors move forward: http://gist.github.com/301644
10:59	hiredman	so the fact that a library you use may be using vars means you are restricted to operating in a single thread?
11:00	hiredman	and you are still pro-var?
11:00	rhickey	all that's left is a little macrology, but I've factored out the commonality so that only the little bits at the end need to be macros
11:01	cemerick	hiredman: I think for the vast majority of code, single-thread operation is just fine, and vars are often clearer and easier to work with compared to options (b) or (c). When I find a hotspot, then I cull that bit out, and ensure that I'm using options (b) or (c), and then pmap away or whatever.
11:02	cemerick	again, I'm talking here about nontrivial situations where the "environment" is not just a single value, etc.
11:03	hiredman	cemerick: single threaded and single environment, no matter how many values are in the environment, is trivial
11:04	cemerick	compojure is a perfect example of this -- James is very much against vars, but being super-explicit about what data is going where when there's dozens of sources balled up in each request is extraordinarily tiresome. So, we've got some middleware that sets up ~ a dozen vars -- for params, url params, session state, current user, current account, blah blah.
11:05	cemerick	hiredman: well, I don't like passing around large and opaque grab-bags of values.
11:05	hiredman	opaque?
11:05	hiredman	how is a map opaque?
11:06	hiredman	if anything a map is less opaque than vars, you can dump a map in a single call to prn, how do you do that for a bunch of vars?
11:07	chouser	rhickey: why definterface instead of defprotocol?
11:07	rhickey	chouser: int args :(
11:07	AWizzArd	I currently have a similar "dilemma". For my Clojure DB I will have transaction, and in those one states the DB. Now I am thinking: should I make insert/update/delete aware of this?
11:07	cemerick	hiredman: Because the available slots in a map can be changed at any time, and the only indication of that is the source code that does the modification. fn args are explicit about what's available, as are vars.
11:07	AWizzArd	(insert some-db obj) vs. (insert obj)
11:08	chouser	rhickey: oh, of course.
11:08	rhickey	I did prototype with a protocol, fwiw
11:08	chouser	easy to switch later. :-)
11:08	rhickey	extremely
11:08	chouser	I need to do something like that for finger trees
11:08	hiredman	cemerick: bound vars are even more susceptible to change via set!
11:08	AWizzArd	rhickey: did you notice the problem that I reported 3,5 hours ago?
11:09	AWizzArd	With compiling deftypes that have slots which contain questionmarks? This fails under Windows XP.
11:09	rhickey	don't use question marks
11:09	AWizzArd	Why did you allow them in function names and vars?
11:09	chouser	right now my measure/reduce objects are little maps with functions in them. I need to allow use of primitives there.
11:09	AWizzArd	(def is-null? false) is fine.
11:10	cemerick	hiredman: I don't mean changing the values (though set! is a very rare operation), I mean changing the slots that are defined.
11:10	AWizzArd	also (defn even? ...) is allowed
11:10	AWizzArd	why not (deftype Foo [a b is-null?])?
11:10	hiredman	cemerick: so?
11:10	AWizzArd	Those get automatically renamed to QMARK
11:10	cemerick	AWizzArd: deftype doesn't mangle field names to the same degree as vars, etc.
11:10	rhickey	chouser: I really need to bite the bullet and dig into the long/double arg/return support
11:11	rhickey	at least definterface is dynamic now
11:11	AWizzArd	cemerick: yes, but is there a principle reason why it shouldn't?
11:11	hiredman	AWizzArd: deftype fields are java fields, and java fields cannot have ? in the name
11:11	chouser	rhickey: what's blocking ccinc? design improvement questions?
11:11	cemerick	AWizzArd: no, but I believe it's a low-priority item
11:12	rhickey	chouser: not much. I really want to find a nice way to work on it, together in a group
11:12	chouser	rhickey: is it not worth doing something closer to a straight port just to provide a better basis on which to do design improvements like you have on the wiki page as well as things like primitive arg/return?
11:12	AWizzArd	hiredman: the ? is no problem for Java at all. Only when I compile my code the problem shows up. Because the compiler tries to save the field name with a ? inside.
11:12	AWizzArd	And Windows XP does not allow that.
11:12	AWizzArd	If XP allowed questionmarks in files then all would be fine now.
11:13	rhickey	chouser: I'm not going to port the mutable bits, too hard to keep straight. But I think there is a simple mapping to protocols for the same abstractions
11:13	hiredman	AWizzArd:
11:13	hiredman	foo.java:2: ';' expected int foo? = 0;
11:13	chouser	AWizzArd: I don't know that that would be true for all JVMs
11:13	AWizzArd	hiredman: I can type into my repl: (deftype Bar [a b c?])
11:13	chouser	rhickey: yes! ok.
11:13	hiredman	AWizzArd: it is not a filename issue
11:13	AWizzArd	This code gets compiled when I type enter.
11:13	cemerick	AWizzArd: and you won't be able to access the c? field from a Bar.
11:13	AWizzArd	And I can do (println (:c? (Bar 1 2 3)))
11:14	hiredman	AWizzArd: deftype's are different when AOT'ed
11:14	chouser	rhickey: protocols on plain maps?
11:14	rhickey	chouser: I'm very frustrated with the online design and collab tools
11:14	AWizzArd	cemerick: in my Clojure it works perfectly well.
11:14	rhickey	chouser: no, deftypes
11:14	fdaoud	,(associative? ["a" "b"])
11:14	clojurebot	true
11:14	rhickey	protocol on plain map just begs how to dispatch
11:14	chouser	ok
11:14	fdaoud	yikes
11:15	cemerick	AWizzArd: Then your build has slightly better runtime mangling than mine, but apparently AOT'ing non-java field names isn't yet there. shrug
11:15	fdaoud	what is true for a map but false for a vector or list?
11:15	hiredman	fdaoud: vectors associate indexs to values
11:15	AWizzArd	I just found it to be a bit inconsistent to allow questionmarks in principle everywhere else, but not as slots for deftypes.
11:15	hiredman	fdaoud: map?
11:15	chouser	,(map? [])
11:15	clojurebot	false
11:15	chouser	fdaoud: like that?
11:15	esj	fdaod: map?
11:15	fdaoud	chouser: yes, but that's so simple that I feel foolish now
11:15	cemerick	AWizzArd: AFAIK it's not a design decision, merely an implementation limit right now.
11:16	AWizzArd	Okay.
11:16	esj	rats.... that'll teach me to paste before seeing if somebody beat me to it....
11:16	AWizzArd	So, for now I will rename those guys then.
11:16	AWizzArd	is-null-p comes to mind ;)
11:17	spariev	Hi, I'm getting reflection warning on (java.io.File. path) - call to java.io.File ctor can't be resolved
11:17	hiredman	why are you naming a field as a predicate anyway?
11:17	fdaoud	tomoj: so I changed associative? to map? since I want vectors and lists to stay intact
11:17	spariev	where should I put type hint ?
11:17	fdaoud	for example, {:a 1 :b ["a" "b"] :c {:d 5 :e 6}}
11:17	chouser	spariev: (java.io.File. #^String path) ... or on wherever path is defined in the first place.
11:18	AWizzArd	hiredman: rhickey did that himself too in some .java files, without the questionmark of course. It is nice for slots that will always be true or false.
11:18	spariev	chouser: many thanks
11:18	fdaoud	,(letfn [(map-keys [f m] (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(f k) (if (associative? v) (map-keys f v) v)]) m)))] (map-keys name {:a 1 :b ["a" "b"] :c {:d 5 :e 6}}))
11:18	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named
11:18	fdaoud	,(letfn [(map-keys [f m] (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(f k) (if (map? v) (map-keys f v) v)]) m)))] (map-keys name {:a 1 :b ["a" "b"] :c {:d 5 :e 6}}))
11:18	clojurebot	{"a" 1, "b" ["a" "b"], "c" {"d" 5, "e" 6}}
11:18	chouser	spariev: np!
11:19	BrandonW	trying to come to terms with writing programs functionally: i have 2 vectors of the same number of elements. how do i transform the first vec so that it returns a new vec where each element is added to the element with the same index of the 2nd vector? is a list comprehension the only concise way to do that?
11:19	chouser	,(map + [1 2 3] [10 20 30])
11:19	clojurebot	(11 22 33)
11:19	hiredman	,(vec (map + [1 2] [3 4]))
11:19	clojurebot	[4 6]
11:19	BrandonW	errr
11:19	BrandonW	i even looked at map
11:19	BrandonW	but it didn't click for some reason
11:20	BrandonW	oh, i know. i was forgetting the optional multiple collections, heh
11:20	chouser	BrandonW: 'for' is for when you want to do something like a nested loop or a cross product, that is every item in seq1 with every item in seq2
11:20	chouser	BrandonW: 'map' is great when you want to walk two seqs in step.
11:21	BrandonW	gotcha
11:22	BrandonW	yeah functional programming is going to take a while to wrap my head around :) certainly brings the fun back in programming though
11:22	unfo-	literally ;)
11:22	fdaoud	lol
11:23	fdaoud	"Clojure puts the fun in functional"
11:23	unfo-	or rather, as i saw in a tshirt once, only functional programmers know real fun --- where the last 'fun' was in fixed width font ;)
11:24	tomoj	fdaoud: oh, yeah
11:24	tomoj	forgot they were associative as well
11:24	fdaoud	I wouldn't have thought of that, but I guess it makes sense that it's index -> value
11:27	fdaoud	anyone here ever watched Night Court? there's a scene where a crazy lady is holding a gun (she thinks she's in a movie) and they're all trying to act a character from movies to try and convince her to give them the gun
11:27	fdaoud	they're going through so much trouble and then Bull just walks in and takes the gun from her.
11:28	fdaoud	this is how Clojure makes me feel vs. all the Java EE world..
11:29	fdaoud	all that ceremony and frameworks and layers and set up and dependency injection and AOP and....meanwhile with Clojure you just get things done.
11:31	Apage43	but then there's the other side, when you spend so much time writing this amazing thing, you finish, you're proud of it.. then you feel.. odd
11:31	Apage43	because it's only.. 40 lines of code..
11:32	chouser	Apage43: heh. yeah.
11:32	chouser	or 10
11:32	Apage43	yeah that's worse.
11:33	phirsch	Hi all! I have a problem with file-str on Windows. Whenever a path contains "/" or "\", file-str throws an exception: "java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1".
11:33	phirsch	Looks like a bug in c.c.duck-streams/file-str to me, as it tries to replace "/" by "\" using java.util.regex.Matcher/replaceAll,
11:33	phirsch	which in turn tries to interpret the "\" as the start of a numbered back reference.
11:33	phirsch	Unfortunately, I do not have a CA yet, so I cannot post this on the google group.
11:33	phirsch	Any ideas how to proceed with this?
11:33	AWizzArd	I single "\" should not be used.
11:33	AWizzArd	A single one you can get by "C:\\mein\\pfad\\datei.txt"
11:34	fdaoud	,(doc letfn)
11:34	clojurebot	"([fnspecs & body]); Takes a vector of function specs and a body, and generates a set of bindings of functions to their names. All of the names are available in all of the definitions of the functions, as well as the body. fnspec ==> (fname [params] exprs) or (fname ([params] exprs)+)"
11:34	phirsch	AWizzArd: sure, I used the string literal "\\", resulting in a single "\"
11:34	AWizzArd	phirsch: do you have a small text file directly in C:\?
11:34	AWizzArd	If yes, please try: (slurp "/some.txt")
11:34	phirsch	AWizzArd: I'll try...
11:34	fdaoud	Apage43: you can add some documentation to make you feel better :)
11:34	stuartsierra	phirsch: please file a ticket
11:35	AWizzArd	okay, so it is a bug and I should not upgrade :)
11:35	chouser	phirsch: file-str in clojure.contrib.io on the master branch seems to work here. you must be using an older version?
11:38	stuartsierra	file-str should work fine on windows, it uses java.io.File/separator
11:40	phirsch	Ok, it works with slurp, but not with file-str:
11:40	phirsch	user=> (file-str "c:/")
11:40	phirsch	#<CompilerException java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1 (NO_SOURCE_FILE:4)>
11:40	phirsch	user=> (file-str "c:\\")
11:40	phirsch	#<CompilerException java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1 (NO_SOURCE_FILE:5)>
11:40	phirsch	user=> (count (slurp "c:\\menu.lst"))
11:40	phirsch	3057
11:40	phirsch	user=> (count (slurp "c:/menu.lst"))
11:40	phirsch	3057
11:41	chouser	phirsch: what version of contrib are you using?
11:42	hiredman	,"c:\\"
11:42	clojurebot	"c:\\"
11:42	hiredman	,"c:\"
11:42	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
11:42	phirsch	chouser: Should be 1.1.0 final, but I have checked the latest source on github, and there was no change to file-str.
11:42	hiredman	,(doc file-str)
11:42	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.duck-streams/file-str;[[& args]]; Concatenates args as strings and returns a java.io.File. Replaces all / and \\ with File/separatorChar. Replaces ~ at the start of the path with the user.home system property."
11:42	DeusExPikachu	is there an idiomatic way to get common lisp defvar behavior (conditional binding) with def?
11:43	hiredman	,(use '[clojure.contrib.duck-streams :only file-str])
11:43	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol
11:43	hiredman	,(use '[clojure.contrib.duck-streams :only (file-str)])
11:43	clojurebot	nil
11:43	tomoj	DeusExPikachu: not really idiomatic, but defonce
11:43	hiredman	,(meta #'file-str)
11:43	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.contrib.duck-streams>, :name file-str, :file "clojure/contrib/duck_streams.clj", :line 86, :arglists ([& args]), :doc "Concatenates args as strings and returns a java.io.File. Replaces\n all / and \\ with File/separatorChar. Replaces ~ at the start of\n the path with the user.home system property.", :tag java.io.File}
11:44	tomoj	(I say not idiomatic because that's just the macro for it, doesn't seem like an idiom)
11:44	hiredman	,(file-str "/")
11:44	clojurebot	#<File />
11:44	hiredman	~def file-str
11:45	DeusExPikachu	tomoj, ok, you ever use like that before?
11:45	tomoj	I just realized that "defonce" is at least 10x better as a name than "defvar"
11:45	DeusExPikachu	true
11:45	tomoj	that's the right way to do it, I was just being pedantic
11:46	phirsch	chouser: The problem is file-str's use of java.util.regex.Matcher/replaceAll - which tries to interpret the replacement string (on Windows, that is a single '\') as a back-reference that should be followed by a number, but there is no number following it. On Unix, the replacement is a "/", which has no special meaning to replaceAll, and is therefore fine to use.
11:46	the-kenny	Oh, I didn't know about :strs and :syms while destructuring a map.
11:46	the-kenny	Awesome :) Thanks, Joy of Clojure :D
11:46	chouser	phirsch: ah, got it.
11:46	hiredman	phirsch: I don't believe java's regexs don't use \1 for back references
11:46	hiredman	er
11:47	hiredman	remove one of those don'ts
11:47	DeusExPikachu	ah, so defonce is the defvar of CL, cool
11:47	chouser	both are supported
11:47	phirsch	hiredman: You can choose to use "$x" and "\x" notations
11:47	hiredman	oh, I see
11:48	phirsch	Could someone file a bug for this?
11:48	stuartsierra	phirsch: ok, I see
11:48	fdaoud	tomoj: where does letfn come from?
11:48	chouser	fdaoud: it's a special form
11:48	stuartsierra	phirsch: I'll fix it
11:48	phirsch	stuartsierra: ;_)
11:48	tomoj	fdaoud: huh?
11:49	hiredman	~def c.l.Compiler
11:49	fdaoud	(doc letfn) in my REPL gives java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: letfn in this context (NO_SOURCE_FILE:1)
11:49	clojurebot	"([fnspecs & body]); Takes a vector of function specs and a body, and generates a set of bindings of functions to their names. All of the names are available in all of the definitions of the functions, as well as the body. fnspec ==> (fname [params] exprs) or (fname ([params] exprs)+)"
11:49	chouser	,(.replaceAll (re-matcher #"/" "~/foo/bar/baz") "\\")
11:49	clojurebot	java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1
11:50	tomoj	strange, I see it as a macro
11:50	hiredman	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/b63af1ad6ce38b50552be3c424ea166cb063ee7c/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java?r=b63af1ad6ce38b50552be3c424ea166cb063ee7c#L4597
11:50	chouser	fdaoud: are using clojure 1.0 perhaps?
11:50	tomoj	I get that error for (doc letfn*) though
11:50	tomoj	despite:
11:50	tomoj	,(letfn* [])
11:50	clojurebot	nil
11:50	chouser	because it's a special form
11:51	hiredman	most of the "special forms" are macros which emit a call to the real special form fn => fn* letfn => letfn*, etc
11:51	hiredman	specials forms have no vars to hang a docstring on
11:51	chouser	,(.replaceAll (re-matcher #"/" "~/foo/bar/baz") (java.util.regex.Pattern/quote "\\"))
11:51	clojurebot	"~Q\\EfooQ\\EbarQ\\Ebaz"
11:51	chouser	hehe
11:51	fdaoud	chouser: ah, my app is clojure 1.1.0 but the repl is 1.0.0 for some reason :/
11:52	hiredman	fdaoud: using lein?
11:52	hiredman	what do you mean by "my app is clojure 1.1.0"
11:52	fdaoud	hiredman: maven
11:53	hiredman	fdaoud: that is a word
11:54	fdaoud	hiredman: ?
11:54	hiredman	fdaoud: you are going to have to give me more than a single word
11:55	fdaoud	hiredman: that's what I'm using: Maven (http://maven.apache.org)
11:55	hiredman	fdaoud: ok, and what does that have to do with "my app is clojure 1.1.0"
11:56	fdaoud	hiredman: my maven app is set up to use 1.1.0, but my plain command-line repl is on 1.0.0. now I figured out that I should use mvn clojure:repl to get a repl with the same environment as my app.
11:57	fdaoud	hiredman: sorry if I'm not making much sense.
11:59	hiredman	shrug
11:59	fdaoud	hiredman: lein is a build system?
12:01	stuartsierra	yes
12:01	hiredman	it uses some maven stuff internally
12:04	fdaoud	thanks, I'll have to check it out, everyone seems to be on it
12:04	stuartsierra	phirsch: pushed file-str fix to master
12:04	stuartsierra	fdaoud: Not everyone :)
12:05	phirsch	stuartsierra: Thanks! :-)
12:05	fdaoud	stuartsierra: well, maven is just easiest for me right now, mvn jetty:run and it's a go
12:05	phirsch	stuartsierra: Looks good to me!
12:06	phirsch	stuartsierra: Now try that with commercial software...
12:07	phirsch	stuartsierra: ... I mean getting a fix within 5 minutes.
12:07	stuartsierra	yep
12:07	stuartsierra	We aim to please.
12:08	phirsch	stuartsierra: Sounds like a motto for clojure ;-)
12:10	phirsch	Is there an idiomatic way to use with-open (or any other resource-managing form for that matter) with lazy seqs? I have been tripped up by the stream already having been closed when I realize the seq later on. I suspect I should use some kind of closure?
12:11	hiredman	not for with-open
12:11	stuartsierra	phirsch: this is a common problem. A technical solution is in the works.
12:11	Chousuke	I think the most common thing to do is to use doall
12:11	stuartsierra	Yep, that's the simplest for now
12:11	hiredman	or move the code that uses the resource within the with-open
12:12	phirsch	Chousuke: The prohibitive size of the file was the reason to use the lazy seq in the first place...
12:12	cemerick	phirsch: There are cases where I don't particularly care whether something gets closed...there, I simply put the close in the terminating condition of the fn producing the lazy seq. shrug
12:12	cemerick	That can bite in different ways, of course.
12:12	hiredman	phirsch: you can move the processing code inside the with-open
12:13	phirsch	cemerick: I see, that's what I was referring to as using a closure.
12:14	cemerick	phirsch: well, it's not even that complicated -- more like (if (whatever) (lazy-seq (this-fn other-args)) (.close data-source))
12:14	phirsch	hiredman: That's what I have done. But it still feels like a workaround. I wanted to turn a seq of filenames into a seq of java.io.File's and that in turn into a seq of lines - and all that lazily, if possible...
12:14	hiredman	,(doc file-seq)
12:14	clojurebot	"([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files"
12:14	Chousuke	phirsch: there's already line-seq if you're fine with just reading the file line by line
12:14	Chousuke	phirsch: but you must consume the entire seq
12:15	Chousuke	hmm
12:15	phirsch	Yes, I was using file-seq and line-seq, but realizing the line-seq (outside of the function turning the seq of filenames into files) was where the closed stream bit me.
12:16	Chousuke	(mapcat line-seq (map #(File. &) filenames))
12:16	hiredman	,(doc line-seq)
12:16	clojurebot	"([rdr]); Returns the lines of text from rdr as a lazy sequence of strings. rdr must implement java.io.BufferedReader."
12:16	hiredman	^- doesn't take a File
12:16	Chousuke	ah, damn.
12:17	phirsch	Chousuke: Will look at that - and see if it plays nicely with adding additional layers of using ZipInputStream and decryption on top...
12:18	Chousuke	anyway, the point is that you don't need to use with-open with line-seq
12:18	Chousuke	the stream is closed when all of it has been read.
12:18	BrandonW	i'm stumped again: how do i use the max function if i have a seq?
12:18	Chousuke	BrandonW: apply it :)
12:18	chouser	,(apply max [1 2 3 4])
12:18	clojurebot	4
12:18	BrandonW	ah yes, i remember now :)
12:19	cemerick	Chousuke: and even if it wasn't, the underlying inputstream would get closed upon GC.
12:19	BrandonW	it's weird when you read it in a book and you understand it completely, but then when you start writing code it seems to elude me :)
12:19	phirsch	Chousuke: That's another problem: The "File"s I am talking about are parts of a ZipInputStream, and when no more lines are available, I should not close the stream, but call .getNextEntry instead...
12:20	hiredman	phirsch: you have two resources open there
12:20	Chousuke	ah.
12:20	phirsch	hiredman: ?
12:20	hiredman	or you don't actually have a File
12:21	hiredman	actually, you must not have a File
12:22	phirsch	Yes, as written above, there are three sequences: involved: Filenames (of zip files), ZipInputStreams, and lines.
12:23	phirsch	hiredman: You can do (java.util.ZipInputStream. anyotherinputstream)
12:23	hiredman	phirsch: you might want to look at ZipFile instead of ZipInputStream
12:23	phirsch	hiredman: java.util?
12:23	hiredman	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/zip/ZipFile.html
12:24	hiredman	it has an entries() method so you can just get a collection of entries
12:25	hiredman	,(doc enumeration-seq)
12:25	clojurebot	"([e]); Returns a seq on a java.util.Enumeration"
12:25	phirsch	hiredman: Thanks for the hint, I somehow missed that. Have to find out how to use it with decryption (which Java itself does not support.)
12:27	hiredman	ugh
12:27	hiredman	zipentries might not actually allow you to get the data
12:28	hiredman	how horrible
12:28	hiredman	oh, you have to pass the entry back through ZipFile
12:28	hiredman	interesting choice there
12:35	phirsch	hiredman: Yes, that is exactly what I thought when I looked at this API.
12:43	avarus	hi!
12:44	stuartsierra	hi
12:46	cemerick	this "clojure has a runtime" stuff is irritating.
12:47	chouser	cemerick: namespaces and such?
12:48	cemerick	chouser: just the standard library constitutes a runtime, apparently: http://twitter.com/njbartlett/
12:52	stuartsierra	Clojure has a runtime, it's just a singleton.
12:54	chouser	well ... it has a few static fields of mutable object. I suppose those together consititue a runtime, don't they?
12:54	cemerick	that's pretty weak
12:54	cemerick	for a language, to me, runtime == interpreter
12:54	clojurebot	I will hold the money!
12:55	cemerick	anyway, he's an osgi guy, so I'm hoping to find out what the beef is there.
12:57	chouser	I know essentially nothing of OSGi, but I did think that static fields of mutable things like that might be an issue, since you probably can't separate copies of them for independant scripts without also copying all of the clojure classes.
12:57	chouser	or something.
12:58	chouser	that sentence alone surely proves how much I don't understand. sigh
12:59	cemerick	there's apparently a distinct issue with using clojure across osgi bundles (e.g. http://twitter.com/njbartlett/status/8968196187), but there's no problem with the corollary in netbeans apps, so there's something particular to osgi going on there.
12:59	rhickey	(vector-int) or (gvector :int) ?
12:59	chouser	"gvector"?
13:00	rhickey	generic vector
13:00	chouser	there will only ever be long, double, or Object?
13:00	rhickey	no, all primitive types
13:01	rhickey	byte,short,char,int,long,float,double,boolean
13:01	rhickey	erm. maybe not boolean
13:02	chouser	I think that tips the scales for me to making it an arg. Not sure I like "gvector" though.
13:02	rhickey	now's a good time to suggest names :)
13:02	chouser	yes. thinking...
13:02	cemerick	pvector is probably linked to parallel, eh?
13:02	cgrand	(vector-of :int)
13:02	chouser	ooh!
13:02	cemerick	nixw
13:02	cemerick	nice
13:03	cemerick	rhickey: what's special about booleans?
13:03	rhickey	there are only 2 canonic values, so don't have the storage overhead of the other boxed primitives
13:05	chouser	a reference to a boolean is bigger than a byte, isn't it? of course you could also just use (vector-of :byte) then.
13:05	hiredman	,(identical? true true)
13:05	clojurebot	true
13:06	hiredman	ideally it's all the same object
13:06	chouser	,(if (Boolean. "false") "oops")
13:06	clojurebot	"oops"
13:06	hiredman	"2 canonic values" etc
13:06	chouser	hehe
13:07	hiredman	that is a Boolean anyway
13:07	chouser	right, but an array of Boolean length n probably takes about n*8 bytes on a 64-bit machine, doesn't it?
13:08	rhickey	chouser: true, I'll include it
13:08	hiredman	,(identical? false (boolean (Boolean. "false")))
13:08	clojurebot	true
13:09	Drakeson	how would you store and update a simple map on disk?
13:09	hiredman	,(doc prn)
13:09	clojurebot	"([& more]); Same as pr followed by (newline). Observes flush-on-newline"
13:10	hiredman	,(doc pr)
13:10	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"
13:12	Drakeson	hiredman: thanks, maybe I should have explained in more details.
13:13	Drakeson	I am looking for a [possibly] simple form of persistence
13:13	hiredman	,(let [x {:a 1}] (read-string (pr-str x)))
13:13	clojurebot	{:a 1}
13:15	Drakeson	the problem is with the "update". I am looking for a way that is more efficient than reading the whole map for every update
13:15	Drakeson	do you know of a simple persistence library in contrib or otherwise in clojars ?
13:15	chouser	can you keep it in memory as well, so you only need to read it on startup?
13:16	hiredman	Drakeson: clojure maps are immutable
13:17	Drakeson	chouser: I am doing that, but I was hoping for a more efficient way (in terms of memory)
13:17	stuartsierra	someone wrote a persistent lib that does logging, don't remember what it was called
13:18	stuartsierra	But at that point, you're implementing a database, so doing it correctly requires a vast amount of work.
13:19	chouser	I don't know of anything that (a) doesn't keep the whole db in memory and (b) isn't a full on DB with its own query language (SQL or otherwise), etc.
13:20	cemerick	wasn't there a tokyo cabinet wrapper floating around?
13:20	cemerick	obviously a variety of (b), but a good options
13:22	noidi	how can I get stdout to be redirected to swank's REPL?
13:22	noidi	or some other readable buffer
13:24	rhickey	vectors of primitives: http://gist.github.com/301644
13:25	rhickey	still needs some finish work, equality symmetry with vectors, j.u.Collection support, IFn etc
13:26	cemerick	whew, having the interfaces inline is rough in this kind of setting
13:26	rhickey	?
13:26	cemerick	rhickey: when asking one's self, "what interfaces does this deftype implement"
13:27	rhickey	ah, yeah, I'd like some better highlighting support for deftype definitely
13:27	rhickey	although it's stil la difficult question to answer in Java as well, will all the inheritance. I need IntelliJ's hierarchy browser for that
13:28	rhickey	with all
13:28	hoeck	noidi: slime-redirect-inferior-output may work
13:28	cemerick	I guess that's what supers is for in general.
13:31	chouser	the type parameterization macro is amazingly small.
13:31	chouser	I must be doing something wrong...
13:32	hiredman	rhickey: collections support would mean boxing?
13:34	noidi	hoeck, it doesn't seem to work with a swank server (to which I connect with slime-connect), but thanks
13:34	rhickey	hiredman: there is dynamic boxing, even now for the Clojure collections interfaces which are object-based.
13:35	hiredman	I mean for the j.u.Collection interface
13:35	rhickey	the j.u.Collections would be the same. But under the hood the storage is primitives in both cases. It's strictly a matter of implementing all the j.u.collection interfaces
13:35	rhickey	what's nice is Vec ended up being one type, not N types
13:35	hiredman	right
13:36	rhickey	N array managers
13:38	Drakeson	I thought clojure.contrib.duck-stream was renamed to clojure.contrib.io ; clojure-contrib-1.2.0-SNAPSHOT.jar still contains duck_stream$*
13:38	cemerick	rhickey: this is all pointing towards an endstate that will be quite remarkable. :-)
13:38	rhickey	what's fun is that these are faster than vector for most things
13:39	rhickey	I think it's kind of a shame to have to use interfaces for primitive args, but it's all in Clojure at least
13:40	rhickey	so, one thing that's not present is that the coercion ops truncate rather than balk on out-of-range
13:41	rhickey	I can either 'fix' int/long/short coercions or make checking versions
13:44	chouser	this is something that's generally not available in Java container types outside of specialized math/vector libs, right?
13:44	chouser	sorry, I mean math/matrix
13:46	rhickey	chouser: apache has/had specialized containers per primitive type
13:46	rhickey	the reason this hasn't been done is the on-the-fly boxing involved, probably prohibitive in the past
13:47	rhickey	and so far, I haven't seen escape analysis doing to much across fn calls
13:47	rhickey	so the big benefit here might be memory footprint
13:47	eyeris	I'm trying to setup NetBeans with the Enclojure plugin. When I load source code into the repl, I get FileNotFound exceptions for libraries that I've added to the NetBeans project's Libraries menu. Is there something more I have to do to make sure those libraries are added to the CP of the repl?
13:47	rhickey	until we get some ops that can reach into the representation
13:48	hiredman	IReduce, etc?
13:49	rhickey	hiredman: yeah that, but still as long a the reducing fn takes/returns objects, you'll need escape analysis to optimize away the ephemeral box
13:49	rhickey	now, fns taking/returning long/doubles otoh...
13:49	hiredman	:D
13:49	cemerick	eyeris: classpath changes do not apply to running repls, you'll have to restart it
13:50	eyeris	cemerick: Do I have to restart NB to do that? I don't see a UI element to do so.
13:51	cemerick	eyeris: right-click in the repl window to restart it, or close the repl window and start a new one from the project node.
13:52	hiredman	"project node"
13:55	eyeris	cemerick: When I right-click on the repl window, I see a Reset option, but that doesn't do anything (visually).
13:55	cemerick	eyeris: you should get a new prompt
13:55	cemerick	hiredman: you're just that 133t :-P
13:56	cemerick	eyeris: the enclojure devs hang out in #enclojure, BTW :-)
13:56	eyeris	Well I can't seem to kill that one, but I started a new one, which seems to work
13:56	cemerick	or some of them, anyway
13:56	eyeris	Thanks for your help.
13:56	cemerick	np
13:57	hiredman	"project node" "factory factory" how do you say these without at least a smirk
13:57	cemerick	well, I don't use any factory factories :-)
13:57	cemerick	"project node" I have no problem with
13:58	hiredman	describe a project node for me
13:58	cemerick	it's the top-level representation of a single project, off of which a variety of operations hang.
13:59	cemerick	surely not a new concept?
13:59	hiredman	isn't that just a project?
14:00	cemerick	yes, but in NetBeans, each icon in the project panel are called nodes
14:00	avarus	ahhh catch Exception reveals the BUG! :_)
14:00	avarus	odd, the same statement worked before
14:04	cemerick	OT: this seems properly inline with typical MS nuttiness: http://weblogs.asp.net/bleroy/archive/2008/01/18/dates-and-json.aspx
14:10	chouser	cemerick: it sure does
14:11	avarus	I don't get it...regarding contrib.sql: INSERT INTO todos (user_id,title,body,created_on,created_by,finish_on) VALUES ('1','foo','bar','11-02-2010','1','12-02-2010') <--this works perfectly in pgadmin but if I execute this statement via contrib.sql I get the error that the date is not a timestamp but a var char...:>
14:26	rhickey	why do unexpected test exceptions always report tes_clojure.clj?
14:26	rhickey	ERROR in (test-pos?-zero?-neg?) (test_clojure.clj:77)
14:36	stuartsierra	rhickey: I need to look into that
14:37	stuartsierra	I think it's because the exception gets caught at the top level.
14:40	stuartsierra	I've been thinking that I should rewrite clojure.test with less macro magic and more functional-ness.
14:40	Drakeson	is clojure.contrib.prxml broken? it does not init
14:40	stuartsierra	Drakeson: ?
14:41	Drakeson	(require 'clojure.contrib.prxml)
14:41	Drakeson	java.lang.IllegalAccessError: escape-xml is not public (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
14:41	stuartsierra	That's a bug, something changed.
14:42	stuartsierra	lazy-xml changed; I can fix that
14:42	fdaoud	is there something simpler than (or (list? a) (vector? a) (seq? a))
14:43	chouser	oh, I probably broke it. sorry.
14:43	cemerick	(or (sequable? a) (seq? a)) ?
14:44	stuartsierra	chouser: no problem, easy fix
14:45	fdaoud	cemerick: where does sequable? come from? contrib?
14:45	cemerick	no, it's in the stdlib; maybe starting with 1.1 though?
14:45	fdaoud	I'm on 1.1.0
14:46	cemerick	hrm. Well, I'm using a build from the 'new' branch from november :-/
14:46	stuartsierra	fdaoud: try (instance? clojure.lang.Sequential ...)
14:47	Drakeson	stuartsierra: thanks
14:47	tomoj	sequential?
14:48	tomoj	,(map sequential? [[] () (seq [1 2 3])])
14:48	clojurebot	(true true true)
14:48	fdaoud	excellent, thanks all
14:49	fdaoud	tomoj: this is for {:a [{:b 2} {:c 3}]}
14:49	fdaoud	our solution wasn't looking at maps inside e.g. vectors
14:49	cemerick	heh, I had forgotten about sequential?
14:49	cemerick	I hardly ever use predicates like that.
14:50	fdaoud	cemerick: i'm just trying to convert a map (and all nested maps) from {:a ...} to {"a" ...} so that Java can use it.
14:50	stuartsierra	fdaoud: clojure.walk/stringify-keys will do that for you
14:50	tomoj	hehe
14:51	fdaoud	stuartsierra: omgwtfbbq
14:51	fdaoud	where were you this morning? :D
14:52	cemerick	bbq? :-)
14:53	fdaoud	http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/kitchen/aa6a/
14:53	cemerick	heh
14:54	fdaoud	stuartsierra: well thanks, i knew there had to be something already done for this. this was still a useful learning exercise.
14:56	eyeris	I have a ns macro on line 0. Later in my file (ns-resolve 'the.ns.named (symbol "function-name")) resolves the function, but (resolve (symbol "function-name")) returns nil, so somewhere I am changing the ns but I don't call in-ns anywhere. How else might I be changing the ns?
14:57	eyeris	(ns-resolve ns (symbol "function-name")) also returns nil
14:58	Drakeson	debug it with (println ns) ?
14:58	eyeris	Yeah, it's set to clojure.core
14:58	stuartsierra	Drakeson: just pushed a fix
14:59	Drakeson	I mean, find the expression that changes the ns
14:59	stuartsierra	This is what happens when you don't have unit tests. :D
14:59	hiredman	eyeris: how are you loading the file?
14:59	eyeris	hiredman: it is from a jar packaged by netbeans
15:00	hiredman	eyeris: so it's AOT'ed?
15:00	eyeris	Yes
15:02	hiredman	come to think of it, it may not even be an AOT issue
15:02	cemerick	I've actually seen this once before, but just worked around it.
15:03	cemerick	and it wasn't in AOT'd code
15:03	hiredman	resolve is runtime
15:04	hiredman	lisppaste8: url
15:04	hiredman	guh
15:04	Drakeson	eyeris: what happens if you place (resolve (symbol "function-name")) right after the (ns) ?
15:04	Drakeson	stuartsierra: thanks
15:04	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/301896
15:05	hiredman	the function that calls resolve runs in the namespace that calls it
15:05	hiredman	so resolve runs in that namespace
15:05	Raynes	hiredman: What namespace do you run in? :D
15:05	hiredman	in this case your -main is being called by clojure.core
15:06	hiredman	well, something in clojure.core
15:06	eyeris	Oh! that makes sense, since the main change I made was sticking the mainline code into a -main
15:07	eyeris	Although, wait. -main doesn't call (resolve)
15:07	eyeris	resolve is called down the stack a ways
15:08	eyeris	Does that matter?
15:08	hiredman	yes
15:08	hiredman	well no
15:08	hiredman	I mean no
15:09	hiredman	ns is 'clojure.core unless something in the stack says otherwise
15:09	eyeris	Drakeson: nothing happens if I put (println ns) right after the (ns ...) call.
15:10	hiredman	th ns form has nothing to do with it
15:10	hiredman	the
15:11	hiredman	between clojure.core and the call to your.namespace/-main nothing changes the value of ns
15:14	hiredman	ns has a runtime value and a compile time value, resolve is the runtime value
15:14	eyeris	Okay. In my.ns/-main I call my.ns/run-report as (run-report). I've confirmed that ns is clojure.core in -main. Why does the call to (run-report) not result in a resolution error?
15:14	eyeris	I guess that answers it.
15:14	hiredman	eyeris: because at compile time the value of ns is my.ns
15:15	hiredman	(defmacro capture-ns [] @#'ns) (def this-ns (capture-ns))
15:15	eyeris	So I can call (in-ns my.ns) in -main
15:16	hiredman	eyeris: better to just pass the namespace as an arg to ns-resolve if you go that route
15:16	hiredman	,(doc create-ns)
15:16	clojurebot	"([sym]); Create a new namespace named by the symbol if one doesn't already exist, returns it or the already-existing namespace of the same name."
15:17	Chousuke	hiredman: isn't @#'ns exactly equivalent to ns? :/
15:18	hiredman	no
15:18	hiredman	well
15:19	hiredman	maybe close enough
15:19	hiredman	I just wanted to be sure to capture the value at macro expansion time and not at runtime
15:19	hiredman	which I guess just ns would do
15:19	Chousuke	yeah
15:20	eyeris	hiredman: Does ns-resolve work with aliased namespaces?
15:20	hiredman	eyeris: define "work"
15:20	hiredman	if ns were private @#'ns would get you the value anyway :P
15:20	eyeris	e.g. (ns my.ns (:require [my.ns.level.two as :alias]))
15:21	eyeris	Can I then call (ns-resolve 'alias ...)?
15:23	eyeris	The reason is that this function looks up named ranges in Excel spreadsheets, then tries to resolve a function corresponding to the name, then interpolates the results of the function into the spreadsheet.
15:24	eyeris	Specifying the namespace would require that I change it from project to project
15:25	tcrayford	how do I define a function that only takes a seq of args?
15:25	tcrayford	I'm thinking something like (defn foo [& args] blah)
15:25	tcrayford	but this doesn't seem to work
15:25	Chousuke	that would take any number of args
15:25	Chousuke	you want just (defn foo [aseq] ...)
15:26	tcrayford	nah I want the any number of args actually
15:26	tcrayford	described the problem wrong
15:26	tcrayford	I have the following function definition:
15:26	tcrayford	(defn td
15:26	tcrayford	[& args] (map #(vector :td) args))
15:26	tcrayford	and passing any arguments to it results in an illegal number of arguments exception
15:27	tcrayford	oh
15:27	tcrayford	yeah fixed
15:27	tcrayford	didn't call % in the anon function
15:27	Chousuke	heh.
15:27	tcrayford	though that shouldn't be an illegal number of args thing
15:28	tcrayford	,(vector 1
15:28	clojurebot	EOF while reading
15:28	tcrayford	,(vector 1)
15:28	clojurebot	[1]
15:28	tcrayford	seeing as that works
15:28	Chousuke	it is. the anonymous function takes no args
15:28	tcrayford	ahhh
15:28	Chousuke	and map requires a function that takes one in this case.
15:28	tcrayford	yeah makes sense
15:28	tcrayford	#() forms are confusing sometimes here
15:30	hiredman	(partial vector :td)
15:30	hiredman	:D
15:30	tcrayford	yeah that's nicer
15:31	tcrayford	and tests still pass
15:31	tcrayford	chairs
15:31	hiredman	,::D
15:31	clojurebot	:sandbox/D
15:35	tcrayford	on other notes, http://katas.softwarecraftsmanship.org/?p=154
15:36	tcrayford	feedback from you guys would be very much appreciated
15:37	avarus	ok, it seems I have to convert my data with (.setTimeStamp foobar)
15:37	avarus	but apparently contrib.sql doesn't touch pgsql anymore :)
15:38	eyeris	What is the correct syntax for (create-ns)?
15:38	hiredman	,(doc create-ns)
15:38	clojurebot	"([sym]); Create a new namespace named by the symbol if one doesn't already exist, returns it or the already-existing namespace of the same name."
15:38	hiredman	,(create-ns 'foo)
15:38	clojurebot	#<Namespace foo>
15:38	hiredman	,(create-ns 'sandbox)
15:38	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
15:38	eyeris	(create-ns my.ns) and (create-ns 'my.ns) both throw java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Symbol
15:38	hiredman	,(identical? (create-ns 'sandbox) sn)
15:38	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: sn in this context
15:38	hiredman	,(identical? (create-ns 'sandbox) ns)
15:38	clojurebot	true
15:39	hiredman	eyeris: then you are doing it wrong
15:41	eyeris	Alright, I fixed that. (I had it out-side my do) But now it says Can't change/establish root binding of: ns with set
15:42	hiredman	eyeris: stopping using set!
15:42	eyeris	I'm not. I'm using (in-ns)
15:42	hiredman	~def in-ns
15:42	clojurebot	No entiendo
15:42	hiredman	bah
15:42	hiredman	what do you think in-ns does?
15:42	hiredman	12:19 hiredman : eyeris: better to just pass the namespace as an arg to ns-resolve if you go that route
15:43	eyeris	Yeah, it sets ns
15:43	eyeris	hiredman I exaplained why that's not a good option.
15:43	eyeris	I don'
15:44	hiredman	12:18 hiredman : (defmacro capture-ns [] @#'ns) (def this-ns (capture-ns))
15:44	unfo-	btw. how does clojurebot's execute work? does it work with REPL or something else?
15:44	eyeris	I don't want to use in-ns. I want to be able to use (ns-resolve) with a compile-time evaluation of ns
15:44	eyeris	That didn't work.
15:45	eyeris	Maybe I used it wrong?
15:45	hiredman	eyeris: what does "doesn't work" mean?
15:46	eyeris	It still used clojure.core
15:47	hiredman	eyeris: what do you mean by "It"
15:47	eyeris	Your capture-ns macro
15:47	hiredman	eyeris: how did you use it?
15:47	eyeris	I tried both (ns-resolve (capture-ns) sym) and (ns-resolve (this-ns) sym)
15:47	eyeris	To be honest, I don't understand how it is supposed to work.
15:49	hiredman	if you ran (ns-resolve (this-ns) sym) you should have gotten an exception
15:49	hiredman	did you?
15:49	eyeris	No
15:50	hiredman	eyeris: then you didn't run it
15:52	hiredman	that macro and the def may not actually even compile
15:52	hiredman	(AOT compile, they will of course work at the repl)
15:53	eyeris	They compiled.
15:53	eyeris	So I just looked really hard at it.
15:53	avarus	how can I define some data to be http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/sql/Timestamp.html :)?
15:53	eyeris	And it looks like I should call (capture-ns) at the top of my fn
15:53	eyeris	then use this-ns instead of ns
15:53	eyeris	Is that right?
15:53	hiredman	eyeris: no, you don't call capture ns in your fn
15:54	hiredman	you need to call it outside your fn, in the def I suggested
15:54	eyeris	I must have missed that in my scroll-buffer.
15:54	hiredman	avarus: you use the constructors to make one
15:55	hiredman	12:18 hiredman : (defmacro capture-ns [] @#'ns) (def this-ns (capture-ns))
15:55	eyeris	Omg! PARENS!
15:55	eyeris	I mis-read that totally
15:56	eyeris	That makes a lot more sense now.
15:56	hiredman	as Chousuke pointed out, you should be fine leaving off the swearing "@#'"
15:57	eyeris	That works. Thank you for being patient with me.
15:57	hiredman	:)
15:59	stuartsierra	avarus: Just make an instance: (Timestamp. 1234567890)
16:04	BrandonW	if i want to join two vectors together, is this the correct way to do it: (into second-part (reverse first-part)) ?
16:04	tcrayford	try concat
16:04	BrandonW	ah
16:04	tcrayford	,(concat [1 2 3] [1 2 3])
16:04	clojurebot	(1 2 3 1 2 3)
16:04	hiredman	BrandonW: why are you reversing the second part?
16:04	hiredman	first part
16:04	hiredman	whichever, the second vector
16:04	fdaoud	,(into [1 2 3] [1 2 3])
16:04	clojurebot	[1 2 3 1 2 3]
16:04	BrandonW	well because if i didn't, then the elements would be in the wrong order
16:04	BrandonW	hmm
16:04	hiredman	are you sure?
16:04	BrandonW	no
16:04	BrandonW	:)
16:05	BrandonW	let me take closer look
16:05	stuartsierra	only if they're lists
16:05	BrandonW	well i perform some operations on them
16:05	BrandonW	they get returned as sequences, but that doesn't change them from being vectors, right?
16:05	hiredman	BrandonW: of course it does
16:05	BrandonW	oh
16:05	hiredman	a sequence is not a vector
16:05	avarus	stuartsierra: yessir, it didn't throw an error but there wasn't any changes in the db: http://pastie.org/820783 <-- that's how I did it
16:06	stuartsierra	avarus: I dunno, that may be something to do with how c.c.sql talks to the database
16:06	avarus	ya :P
16:07	BrandonW	,(class (rest [1 2 3]))
16:07	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq
16:07	BrandonW	that looks like a vector
16:07	chouser	no, it looks like a seq
16:07	chouser	,(vector? (rest [1 2 3]))
16:07	clojurebot	false
16:08	chouser	,(seq? (rest [1 2 3]))
16:08	clojurebot	true
16:08	stuartsierra	Hey contrib authors: wanna help me factor out c.c.java (formerly java-utils?)
16:08	BrandonW	so it isn't a vector or a list
16:08	BrandonW	it is a seq
16:08	triyo	$ChunkedSeq is a inner class
16:08	chouser	it's a kind of seq that happens to be defined inside the PersistentVector class, but it's a seq
16:08	danlarkin	stuartsierra: factor out how?
16:08	BrandonW	okay, so you know the output was derived from persistent vector, but it isn't of that type any more
16:09	BrandonW	ok
16:09	chouser	even that detail doesn't make if very far down a chain of seq ops
16:09	chouser	,(class (filter odd? [1 2 3]))
16:09	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
16:09	hiredman	,(class (map inc [1 2]))
16:09	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
16:10	stuartsierra	danlarkin: Fix all the libs that use c.c.java to use the other namespacse
16:10	hiredman	,(class (cons 2 (map inc [1 2])))
16:10	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Cons
16:10	stuartsierra	I mentioned I was going to do this on the dev list
16:10	hiredman	,(class (filter even? (cons 2 (map inc [1 2]))))
16:10	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
16:10	stuartsierra	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_thread/thread/b4acea9c95a9cfe9#
16:10	stuartsierra	Pushed a new branch to github, "drop-java"
16:10	stuartsierra	Just need some help finding all the usages and fixing them.
16:11	danlarkin	wall-hack-* getting a name change is probably a good idea :)
16:11	stuartsierra	yes
16:11	stuartsierra	It's now c.c.reflect
16:11	stuartsierra	Per Halloway's suggestion
16:12	hiredman	:(
16:12	danlarkin	although whoever came up with that name originally is a genius
16:12	hiredman	<--
16:12	stuartsierra	I never understood what it meant.
16:12	hiredman	clojurebot: hiredman
16:12	clojurebot	hiredman is an evil genius.
16:12	danlarkin	well then you had a sad childhood!
16:12	danlarkin	:-p
16:12	stuartsierra	clojurebot: stuartsierra
16:12	clojurebot	stuartsierra is volunteering
16:12	stuartsierra	Ha!
16:12	fdaoud	clojurebot: danlarkin
16:12	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
16:13	hiredman	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games#Wallhacking
16:13	fdaoud	clojurebot: fdaoud
16:13	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
16:13	fdaoud	clojurebot: rhickey
16:13	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
16:13	triyo	clojurebot: clojurebot
16:13	clojurebot	clojurebot is like life: you make trade-offs
16:14	fdaoud	clojurebot: chouser
16:14	clojurebot	Who??
16:14	danlarkin	ookay that's enough
16:14	triyo	haha
16:14	fdaoud	you started it
16:14	stuartsierra	Seriously, though, can people with commit access pitch in to fix this?
16:14	boojum	hello world
16:16	eyeris	Is there a good example of how to use clojure.set.join?
16:16	hiredman	/
16:16	hiredman	it is clojure.set/join
16:17	eyeris	Right.
16:17	hiredman	,(doc clojure.set/join)
16:17	clojurebot	"([xrel yrel] [xrel yrel km]); When passed 2 rels, returns the rel corresponding to the natural join. When passed an additional keymap, joins on the corresponding keys."
16:17	tcrayford	github.com/relevance/functional-koans, see the clojure branch on sets
16:17	tcrayford	(and run through the whole thing, its useful)
16:17	hiredman	,(clojure.set/join #{:a :b} #{:c :d})
16:17	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Keyword
16:18	eyeris	Thanks tcrayford
16:19	stuartsierra	Argh, anyone remember how to push a new update on a remote branch?
16:20	tcrayford	git push origin branch-with-the-same-name-as-remote-branch
16:20	chouser	stuartsierra: I see only json, http.connection, pprint, and test-java
16:20	tcrayford	at least that's all I've ever done
16:20	cemerick	or git push origin local-name:remote-name
16:20	chouser	stuartsierra: does that seem right?
16:20	stuartsierra	tcrayford: yeah, not working, says eveyrthing is up to date
16:20	tcrayford	git status?
16:21	stuartsierra	chouser: yes, I thought it was more than that actually
16:21	tcrayford	:P
16:21	stuartsierra	"On branch drop-java \n nothing to commit"
16:21	tcrayford	weiird
16:21	hiredman	stuartsierra: what does git remote say?
16:22	chouser	stuartsierra: Should I do pprint?
16:22	stuartsierra	chouser: yes, thanks
16:22	hiredman	is origin the right repo?
16:22	stuartsierra	hiredman: yes, git@github.com:richhickey/clojure-contrib.git
16:22	chouser	oh, jmx is there too
16:22	hiredman	shrug
16:22	stuartsierra	" Tracked remote branches
16:22	stuartsierra	1.0.x 1.1.x clojure-1.0-compatible drop-java gh-pages master maven new"
16:22	arohner	are pre & post conditions supported on multimethods yet?
16:23	the-kenny	how can I convert \r\n to the native newline of the os?
16:24	stuartsierra	Oh, maybe it's just Github not showing the commit yet...
16:24	tcrayford	github can be kinda slow sometimes
16:24	chouser	stuartsierra: what broke with lazy-xml earlier? it wasn't escape-xml was it?
16:26	stuartsierra	chouser: yes, it was escape-xml
16:26	LauJensen	Guys - What is the simplest class(es) which allow me to load an image from a while, and then poke at the pixels, like (getColor 15 15) ==> RGB(1,2,3) ?
16:29	hiredman	ImageIO
16:29	hiredman	~jdoc javax.imageio.ImageIO
16:32	LauJensen	Sank ju!
16:35	LauJensen	Ah yes now I remember - This was the class which borked with OpenJDK
16:35	LauJensen	Always use it with Oracle JDK instead
16:35	chouser	stuartsierra: only jmx is left, I think. Are you on it?
16:37	stuartsierra	chouser: yes
16:37	stuartsierra	chouser: thanks
16:37	chouser	hardly anything, but you're welcome. thanks for leading up such efforts.
16:37	hiredman	LauJensen: really? I've never had it not work
16:38	hiredman	possibly it supports a different set of image formats on the openjdk
16:38	LauJensen	hiredman: For outputting jpegs with certain color models, it would just emit black images. I struggled with it for hours until I flushed OpenJDK, then it worked
16:39	hiredman	interesting
16:41	stuartsierra	I'd be done now, if only scgilardi weren't so clever about abbreviating his lib names...
16:42	stuartsierra	(:use (clojure.contrib [java :only ...])) hmph
16:42	chouser	ooh, my grep didn't catch those.
16:42	stuartsierra	mine either
16:43	chouser	want me to do sql or miglayout?
16:43	stuartsierra	I've started sql,
16:43	avarus	holy moly
16:43	stuartsierra	go for miglayout
16:43	avarus	I'm missing out columbo for that shit timestamp issue :P
16:46	Nikelandjelo	Is there any function to merge 2 or more sequences? I can't find :(
16:47	stuartsierra	ok, pushed c.c.sql fixes
16:48	chouser	pushed miglayout
16:48	chouser	3 times before I quit comflicting with you. :-)
16:48	stuartsierra	oops
16:48	stuartsierra	ok, testing now
16:48	boojum	Nikelandjelo, interleave?
16:48	chouser	I assumed that was possible with git, but never actually ran into it before.
16:49	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/lab/contrib.svg
16:49	stuartsierra	chouser: I guess that's why we're supposed to work on separate branches and merge. Oh well.
16:49	stuartsierra	Tests pass, preparing to merge on master.
16:50	stuartsierra	Pushed to master.
16:50	stuartsierra	Deleting 'drop-java' branch
16:50	chouser	we'll have to do something like this again for libs that go from clojure.contrib.foo -> clojure.foo, right?
16:51	stuartsierra	yep
16:51	stuartsierra	I've been doing this kind of thing for a couple of weeks.
16:51	chouser	and once that's done, I'll have to go through and fix the book...
16:51	stuartsierra	yep
16:51	stuartsierra	Renaming's a bitch.
16:52	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/lab/contrib.svg <-- updated
16:52	chouser	do they have any refactoring tools for markdown? :-P
16:52	chouser	hiredman: good! so much clearer now!
16:52	hiredman	:P
16:53	hiredman	I completely forgot about clojure-dependency-grapher
16:53	avarus	stuartsierra: what have you changed?
16:55	stuartsierra	avarus: just posted to the main list
16:56	avarus	ok
16:57	stuartsierra	Wait, dammit, did I just delete one of the commits?
16:58	stuartsierra	yes, miglayout
16:58	stuartsierra	fixed, pushed
16:59	avarus	btw. I changed my database field type to text now instead of timestamp :(...there doesn't seem to be a way to insert timestamp values for now
16:59	stuartsierra	test-java is still there
17:00	avarus	omg.-..now I have the same error just with integer :(
17:01	stuartsierra	Ok, NOW the tests pass.
17:07	rhickey	ok, vector-of is up. help welcome in bringing it over the goal line
17:07	rhickey	also feedback on use/perf
17:11	ulfster	hi there, anybody knows if it is possible to add headers to a response in compojure, when using the defroutes macro?
17:12	hiredman	bleh, the .io nic is $100 a year
17:12	arohner	ulfster: yes, it's possible
17:13	arohner	the response is just a map, and headers is a key
17:13	ulfster	i got a route like (GET "/url" (myFunction))
17:14	ulfster	inside the route i return (html someStuff)
17:14	ulfster	how do i add the headers in this case?
17:15	chouser	rhickey: awesome!
17:15	arohner	return {:status 200 :body (myFunction) :headers { "HeaderName" value}}
17:15	arohner	ulfster: which header do you want to return? there are helper functions for several common ones, like mime type and cache control
17:15	arohner	if it's a one off, you can do what I wrote above
17:16	arohner	or you can write a middleware, which is a wrapper function that modifies the response
17:16	ulfster	i want to set a cookie, but that happens conditionally inside myFunction
17:16	rhickey	chouser: if nothing else, it proves the deftype stuff and relatively ordinary clojure code is as fast as the Java implementation
17:16	arohner	in that case, you want to call session-assoc
17:17	arohner	it should be part of the return value
17:17	rhickey	hrm, I guess it is kind of primitive code :)
17:17	rhickey	well, let's say it proves you can write the bottom layer in Clojure
17:18	arohner	[ (session-assoc cookie-map) (myFunction)]
17:18	arohner	ulfster: FYI, there's also a #compojure, but it's pretty quite
17:18	arohner	*quiet
17:18	ulfster	ok, thanks, i will try it from here
17:22	ulfster	arohner: awesome, it worked! thanks a lot!
17:22	arohner	ulfster: great
17:24	BrandonW	do clojure newbies tend to get bitten by lots of vector/list/seq issues?
17:47	ska2342	Hi. Currently I'm trying to get rid of a particularly Perlish way of thinking and to find a functional way of parsing file-formats which were created with line by line parsing and state-keeping in mind. E.g. the popular ini-file format. Can you give me any pointers?
17:48	avarus	how can I call java.sql.Timestamp.valueOf("some value") from inside clojure?
17:48	hiredman	ska2342: is there a reason you can't use java.util.Properties?
17:49	hiredman	avarus: http://clojure.org/java_interop
17:49	avarus	I'm there for 30mins now :P
17:49	ska2342	escaping to Java is one possibility for just solving the problem, sure. However, I'd like to adjust my rather Perl-influenced thinking ;-)
17:50	hiredman	ska2342: why is it escaping?
17:50	hiredman	a library exists to do what want you want
17:50	hiredman	use it
17:50	hiredman	avarus: so what is the problem?
17:51	hiredman	it's very clear
17:51	ska2342	hiredman: because it's not functional. I know how well it is integrated and that it is perfectly acceptable, even encouraged, to do so.
17:51	avarus	too few examples, too many possibilities :)
17:51	avarus	no, for me it's not
17:51	avarus	that's why I am asking
17:51	avarus	I came up with something like this: (java.sql.Timestamp. (.valueOf (str "2005-04-06 09:01:10"))))
17:51	avarus	but I get "no matching field" :>
17:52	hiredman	avarus: why would you expect that to work?
17:52	avarus	it compiles and doesn't look too strange :)
17:52	hiredman	the interop page says ClassName. is the same was (new ClassName)
17:53	avarus	ya, I know
17:53	avarus	so?
17:53	hiredman	so you are constructing a new Timestamp argument and pass the result of (.valueOf (str "2005-04-06 09:01:10"))) to the constructor
17:53	avarus	ah oh
17:54	hiredman	what is the signature of the method you are trying to call?
17:54	ska2342	avarus: if I understand it correctly, the answer to your question is right on the top of the page, hiredman suggested.
17:54	avarus	ya, it was!
17:55	avarus	but the example wasn't clear enough :)
17:55	avarus	(java.sql.Timestamp/valueOf (str "2005-04-06 09:01:10")) <-- I didn't know you could write it like this
17:55	avarus	I'm struggling with this shit for over an hour now
17:56	hiredman	what is not clear about it?
17:56	avarus	but that works perfectly now
17:56	ska2342	avarus: do you need the str at all?
17:56	hiredman	(Classname/staticMethod args*) ; exactly the same was what you just wrote
17:56	avarus	I don't know what. I can only tell that it confused me and I wrote the stuff in all kinds of variants
17:57	avarus	ska2342: no :)
17:57	avarus	works without
17:57	hiredman	why did you have the call to str in the first place?
17:57	avarus	ska2342: oh, apparently it's needed
17:58	hiredman	avarus: why do you say that?
17:58	avarus	hiredman: please relax; I'm not a pro like you and if you don't feel like helping me, don't do it; i'm not taking it personal
17:58	avarus	why? because it fails without :P
17:58	hiredman	what makes you think I am not relaxed?
17:58	ska2342	It fails with what message?
17:59	avarus	java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
17:59	hiredman	avarus: why would it be trying to treat the string as a fn?
17:59	ska2342	Maybe you omitted the str but kept the parens?
17:59	hiredman	ska2342: shhh
17:59	avarus	ska2342: yep, the parens were still there :) thx
17:59	ska2342	hiredman: uhm, sorry, to fast and beyond the lesson ;-)
18:00	avarus	the lesson not to help :>?
18:00	avarus	come on guys
18:00	hiredman	to ask questions until we find one you know the answer to, and work from there
18:00	ska2342	avarus: hiredman is asking the important questions and therby helping a lot if you solve them.
18:01	avarus	heh, the problem is I don't understand
18:01	ska2342	.. just in my case he didn't get the intent of the question ;-)
18:01	avarus	my question was very simple :)
18:02	hiredman	that is a problem, but you are not a tabula rasa, you have some guess
18:02	hiredman	guesses
18:02	avarus	for him it would take a second to answer
18:02	avarus	and I would understand
18:02	avarus	but this way we only wasted so many lines here
18:02	avarus	for nothing :)
18:02	hiredman	I'm trying to teach you to fish
18:03	ska2342	avarus: I happen to disagree; it's just not giving the quick solution but paving the way.
18:03	hiredman	but feel free to /ignore
18:03	avarus	ska2342: if you followed the chat I was having this problem with interop almost two hours ago :)
18:03	avarus	and since then I experimented a lot
18:04	ska2342	anyway, need some sleep. Cheers :-)
18:04	avarus	read that page about interop, looked at some examples at github etc...
18:04	avarus	there is some time where a "pro" just knows the answer
18:05	avarus	hiredman: I never ignored anyone :)
18:09	arohner	I have a text file living in the source directory of my app. Is there a way to get the path to the file, without hardcoding the location?
18:12	arohner	like using getResource(), or something like that?
18:13	hiredman	are you using lein?
18:13	arohner	no
18:13	hiredman	so it's in the source directory?
18:13	hiredman	and that is on the classpath?
18:13	arohner	yes, and yes
18:14	avarus	(System/getProperty "user.dir") works for me
18:15	hiredman	arohner: http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/blob/master/src/hiredman/clojurebot.clj#L22
18:15	hiredman	clojurebot.properties is a file at the root of a directory on the classpath
18:16	hiredman	the (fn []) is kind of an interesting wrinkle, and I kind of forget why I did that
18:16	hiredman	previously it was (-> clojure.lang.RT (.getRe...
18:16	arohner	thanks
18:17	arohner	maybe it has something to do with clojure classloaders getting GC'd
18:17	arohner	?
18:17	hiredman	I don't think so
18:17	hiredman	I think it was when I started using lein for clojurebot, which was when I start aot compiling it
18:31	avarus	thanks for the clarification on the interop problem I had, hiredman ...
18:31	avarus	... and good night :)
19:03	abrenk	If I want to implement the following pseudo code "repeat (64): ctext = encrypt-ecb(state, ctext)" (so the value of 'ctext' is the result of a previous call) which form should I take a look at?
19:03	abrenk	Can I use 'recur' in an anonymous function?
19:04	abrenk	Or do I need to defn a seperate function?
19:04	rhickey	abrenk: yes, you can use recur
19:04	abrenk	And introduce the counter as a seperate parameter and stop recursion when it hits 64?
19:05	abrenk	rhickey: thanks.
19:06	hiredman	abrenk: have you seen iterate
19:06	hiredman	,(doc iterate)
19:06	clojurebot	"([f x]); Returns a lazy sequence of x, (f x), (f (f x)) etc. f must be free of side-effects"
19:06	abrenk	hiredman: Ah! You always know the right form. :-)
19:09	abrenk	hiredman: But I don't need all the values - just the last one. So I'll try an anonymous function with recur first. That should do it.
19:10	hiredman	that will most likely be faster
19:10	hiredman	I got tweeted
19:11	hiredman	http://twitter.com/schipplock/statuses/8982760061
19:11	abrenk	hiredman: but you're a nice guy as far as I can tell!
19:11	danlarkin	how rude
19:12	hiredman	I'm sure they are verying opinions
19:12	hiredman	there
19:36	hiredman	technomancy: is there any kind of agenda for this evening?
19:40	technomancy	hiredman: it's freeform... just getting to know folks and possibly pulling out projects if we run out of things to talk about. =)
19:40	technomancy	meetings that involve presentations every time are great, but they're a lot more work to organize. plus then you're bottlenecked by finding speakers.
19:41	technomancy	Sonian's Seattle branch is a 140 sq-ft office in my back yard; not exactly lots of hosting options like you have in SF
19:42	hiredman	sure
20:06	BrandonW	do clojure newbies typically have problems with vec vs list vs seq?
20:06	BrandonW	are you supposed to use quoted lists by default, unless you need the vec data structure specifically for performance?
20:07	technomancy	often even small vectors are more convenient
20:08	technomancy	especially for literals
20:08	technomancy	use a list if you're going to be processing it in a first/rest fashion
20:09	BrandonW	i just kind of defaulted to vectors by default, but it seems kind of awkward to choose to use vectors, and then any time you execute a seq operation on the vec, you have to convert it back to a vec if you want the same conj (and any other function that operates differently depending on the data structure used)
20:09	BrandonW	behaviour
20:11	technomancy	yeah, if you need vector performance you should avoid seq-ifying operations
20:11	BrandonW	aren't the majority of data structure functions seq-ifying, though?
20:12	BrandonW	maybe it is just a coincidence that most of the operations i use in my first project happen to be seq-ifying
20:14	technomancy	yes, many core functions are sequifying. if you _really_ need performance you will need to either avoid them or learn to frame your problem in terms of seqs. (the latter is probably the right approach)
20:15	BrandonW	that's what i was thinking. I just have to start training myself to think in terms of seqs.
20:15	technomancy	seqs are pretty central to clojure
20:16	technomancy	it's common to build up a vector in one step, then start using a seq that's based on the vector once you're ready to consume it.
20:16	technomancy	using a seq based on a vector is cheap; it's going the other direction that's expensive
20:17	BrandonW	i think once i get this puzzle solver working i'm going to convert it to be seq-based
20:17	BrandonW	right now it is kind of seq/vec hybrid (had a few bugs involving that, too)
20:30	abrenk	Strange, if I use #(... (recur (inc %1) x)) it works, but (fn [i x] ...) I get "Can only recur from tail position".
20:31	abrenk	How come? Named parameters would be nice. And (let [i %1 x %2] ...) seems unnecessary.
20:31	abrenk	http://paste.lisp.org/+215N
20:33	abrenk	It is a tail position...!?
20:35	chouser	nope, it's not
20:35	chouser	there are other differences between your #() and (fn ...) examples
20:35	chouser	You have (fn [i state] (if ...) 0 state)
20:35	chouser	so the 'if' is not in the tail position of the fn
20:39	abrenk	chouser: am I missing a paren then or how did I screw up there? Seems I've got the syntax to call a (fn [] ...) form wrong.
20:40	chouser	If you meant to call the fn right there like you do with the #(), then you need ((fn [] ...) 0 state)
20:40	abrenk	Right!!!
20:41	abrenk	chouser: Thanks again for taking a look! Now I've got it.
20:41	chouser	np
21:17	lancepantz	anyone have any experience implementing a connection pool with the sql api in clojure-contrib?
21:18	_mst	lancepantz: I haven't tried it with the c.c sql, but I've had good success using http://proxool.sourceforge.net/. I think it'd work for c.c sql too
21:23	lancepantz	cool, thanks man
21:23	lancepantz	looks like it does
21:53	qed	monads are scary
21:54	qed	i dont know why im reading about monads in clojure...
22:06	offby1	clojurebot: hey ho
22:06	clojurebot	I don't understand.
22:28	Luyt	qed: Don't worry, I don't understand monads either. Not yet.
23:26	BrandonW	whoo finally!
23:27	BrandonW	completely un-optimized, but i now have a snake puzzle solver
23:27	BrandonW	took around 10 minutes to brute-force, heh