#clojure – 2010-01-25

2010-01-25

00:01	tolstoy	what does "keep an index" mean? Adding up something for each row? (Which could be done in SQL itself, which is why I'm confused.)
00:01	somnium	nosql!
00:01	alexyk	tolstoy: it's not SQL, it's mongo!
00:01	alexyk	getlostsql!
00:01	tolstoy	Heh.
00:02	tolstoy	I guess I was thinking that you could have a fn that took a row, and a results map, and returned a new map with the row's data added in (as necessary).
00:02	tolstoy	Then just use reduce.
00:02	tolstoy	I mean, map reduce, eh?
00:03	alexyk	reduce works, but somehow I found that passing around the transient res is not much speedup
00:03	alexyk	the while works a transientr
00:03	tolstoy	Ah, so, you're past getting it work. Now you want to do the ugly optimization? :)
00:04	somnium	can just move the while condition into a when in loop-recur?
00:04	alexyk	somnium: forgot how loop looks :)
00:04	alexyk	(doc loop)
00:04	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); Evaluates the exprs in a lexical context in which the symbols in the binding-forms are bound to their respective init-exprs or parts therein. Acts as a recur target."
00:05	alexyk	ha -- 1.1.0 sends to RTFurl
00:05	tolstoy	That explanation is nice and clear.
00:05	alexyk	so where do we inc some i?
00:06	alexyk	in the binding?
00:06	tolstoy	(loop [i 0] ..... (recur (inc i)))
00:07	alexyk	ah ok
00:07	tolstoy	maybe (loop [cursor (init) i 0] .... (recur cursor (inc i)))
00:08	tolstoy	(let [cursor (init)] (loop [i 0} ... (recur (inc i))) ;; no idea what's better style, or faster. Heh.
00:08	somnium	the cursor mutates on its own, so no sense in passing it
00:08	alexyk	yep
00:08	tolstoy	right
00:08	somnium	maybe the JIT can handle those details
00:16	alexyk	so if loop doesn't see recur, it just falls through, as let?
00:16	somnium	yeah, no complaints from the compiler
00:17	somnium	maybe well get real TCO some day off in the future (or a clojure-in-scheme implementation)
00:20	wilig	technomancy: Mind if I try my hand at some of the tickets on swank-clojure?
00:20	hiredman	there are patches that add tailcalls to the jvm already
00:22	alexyk	how do I check that something is a number?
00:22	hiredman	(doc number?)
00:22	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns true if x is a Number"
00:23	somnium	hiredman: ooh, any jvm-download to play with?
00:24	alexyk	thx
00:25	hiredman	somnium: no, and it's not automatic tailcalls, you have to emit special bytecode so the clojure compiler would need to add support for it
00:26	hiredman	http://weblogs.java.net/blog/forax/archive/2009/12/18/tailcall-anyone
00:27	somnium	good timing for ccinc at any rate
00:29	hiredman	cinc could happen right now, it's just a matter of priorities
00:31	hiredman	it could have happened even earlier too, I think rhickey is just focused on making clojure "good" and cinc is just a subgoal
00:32	somnium	I wonder if the java regex syntax will linger once clojure is on multiple platforms
00:32	hiredman	clojure is tied to the jvm
00:32	somnium	Im mostly interested in seeing what the 'kernel' comes out looking like
00:32	hiredman	I don't that will change
00:32	hiredman	doubt
00:33	hiredman	the clr version is also "clojure" it is "clojure.NET"
00:33	hiredman	er
00:33	hiredman	the clr version is not
00:33	hiredman	bleh
00:33	somnium	Im not terribly concerned with how its called :)
00:34	somnium	more what it can do and how its different
00:37	hiredman	the point is the clr version is different
00:38	somnium	ah, so you mean clojure on the jvm is unlikely to change
00:38	hiredman	it's unlikely to change its regex support
00:39	somnium	does the clr use the same regex notation? (I have no idea what .NET regex is like)
00:39	hiredman	I think I recall seeing in an email dmiller talking about adding someway to specify stack allocation on the clr
00:39	hiredman	the jvm doesn't support that so clojure can't do that
00:40	hiredman	clojure.net can
00:40	hiredman	I don't know too much about clojure.net either
00:40	alexyk	somnium: I got the name of the option to dissoc :_id :_ns!
00:40	hiredman	infact, it may actually be called clojureCLR
00:41	somnium	ccinc should make it easier(possible) to support those kind of host-specific special forms
00:41	somnium	just a new ticket on assembla a few days ago I saw
00:42	alexyk	dismongo
00:42	somnium	alexyk: sounds like a tropical ailment
00:42	alexyk	Microsoft Clojure# 7
00:42	somnium	:D
00:43	alexyk	now with ActiveFn(tm)
00:44	alexyk	and family license pack, up two repls on a Windows 7 locla network
00:46	hiredman	Windows Evaluator Explorer
00:46	hiredman	WEE!
00:50	somnium	what to call a scheme-to-C impl? PLTClojure is just not sexy
00:50	somnium	cleme
00:50	alexyk	clo#ure
00:50	somnium	how do you pronounce that one?
00:51	alexyk	"violate the EULA and go to jail == #" :)
00:52	somnium	I worked in at least one office that kept a a lone copy of XP locked in a storage closet
00:54	alexyk	is there a core fun to return a seq with nth element removed?
01:00	alexyk	,(letfn [(without [s n] (concat (take n s) (drop (inc n) s)))] (without (range 10) 4))
01:00	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9)
01:25	alexyk	I can manually destructure a map and convert it to a vector like below. Now what if the keys is a parameter?
01:25	alexyk	,(let [{:keys [a b]} {:a 1 :b 2}] [a b])
01:25	clojurebot	[1 2]
01:25	alexyk	I can say :keys myparam, but what do I stick into the body?
02:10	LauJensen	Morning team
02:16	replaca	hey lau
02:54	webben	Does anyone know what's happening with Waterfront? Did it cease development early last year?
02:59	somnium	I think the developer started using emacs
03:00	webben	ah interesting
04:00	AWizzArd	~seen rhickey
04:00	clojurebot	rhickey was last seen quiting IRC, 287 minutes ago
04:11	esj	Morning all
04:11	esj	Nickserv is a bit feisty this am.
04:14	cgrand	esj: Morning
08:25	G0SUB	need help with enlive...
08:26	G0SUB	once I have used select to get a part of a page, can I run select on the selection again?
08:26	G0SUB	that capability will be really useful.
08:38	cemerick	G0SUB: yeah, that shouldn't be a problem
08:38	cemerick	select is just working over a tree of nodes, and returns a tree of nodes, so those operations can be composed at will
08:39	G0SUB	cemerick: well, it didn't work for me. may be I did something wrong.
08:39	G0SUB	cemerick: also, I need to use an nth-child selector. is that possible?
08:40	cemerick	G0SUB: one sec, I'll see if I can get a simple example together
08:40	G0SUB	cemerick: sure. many thanks.
08:52	cemerick	G0SUB: yeah, super-easy: (-> "http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/" java.net.URL. html-resource (select [:div]) (select [:a]) count)
08:53	cemerick	that gives all links that are descendants of divs
08:53	G0SUB	cemerick: looking
08:54	cemerick	I've not used nth-child, but I'll assume that that will drop in however you'd expect
08:54	cemerick	e.g. to parallel how CSS works, that is
08:55	cemerick	G0SUB: yeah, changing the first select to (select [[:div (nth-child 3)]]) yields a count of matching links of 14, rather than 67
08:56	cemerick	(not positive that's correct, but seems perfectly reasonable)
08:56	G0SUB	cemerick: the nth-child syntax is interesting
08:57	cemerick	G0SUB: interesting, as in different than the analogous css?
08:58	G0SUB	cemerick: yes. and is it documented?
08:58	cemerick	cgrand: parenthetically, why take nodes as the first argument to select? I really want to use ->> and drop a bunch of maps and then a reduce on the end of a series of selects.
08:58	G0SUB	cemerick: +1
08:58	cemerick	G0SUB: here, I think: http://enlive.cgrand.net/syntax.html (linked from http://wiki.github.com/cgrand/enlive/)
08:59	G0SUB	cemerick: ah
09:01	cgrand	cemerick: G0SUB: because select predates ->> :-)
09:01	cgrand	you can always use the -> ->> combo
09:01	G0SUB	cgrand: hehe :)
09:02	cemerick	cgrand: boo! ;-)
09:02	cgrand	(-> url (select XXX) (select YYY) (->> (map foo) (reduce bar zero)))
09:03	chouser	oh. my.
09:03	chouser	Why had I never considered putting a ->> inside a -> ?
09:04	cemerick	yeah, that's a new one on me, too :-)
09:04	cemerick	cgrand: anyway, I'd +1 swapping the arg order if you're game.
09:06	cgrand	I'd like to modify -> and ->> to make the recognize each other so as to switch between thread first and thread last
09:06	cgrand	so my latest snippet would become (-> url (select XXX) (select YYY) ->> (map foo) (reduce bar zero))
09:07	cemerick	huh
09:07	cemerick	so crazy, it just might work.
09:09	chouser	why not just have each fn (since they can hold metadata now) declare its threading arg position, then have a single universal ->
09:09	cemerick	chouser: that's not too magical?
09:10	chouser	definitely too magical.
09:10	cgrand	One of my pet peeve is that one can currently upgrades a thread-first to a thread-last using the ->> inside a -> trick. The other way is impossible.
09:11	cgrand	chouser: it may break some existing code but it's an interesting idea
09:16	chouser	I guess my postfix locals example would quit working.
09:19	jcromartie	what's the best way to make a map from a seq?
09:19	chouser	jcromartie: depends on the shape of the seq
09:19	chouser	jcromartie: ([:a 1] [:b 2])? (:a 1, :b 2)? ((:a :b) (1 2))?
09:20	jcromartie	it's a seq of hash-maps
09:20	chouser	so ({:a 1} {:b 2, :c 3}) and you want {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3}?
09:20	jcromartie	and value of one of the keys of these maps will become the key for the new hash-map
09:20	jcromartie	not quite
09:21	jcromartie	({:a "foo", :b 2}) would become {"foo" {:b 2}}
09:21	jcromartie	I'm thinking reduce
09:22	chouser	I think I need more info. Is :a another input to this function, or else how is it treated differently from :b?
09:22	chouser	but yes, likely reduce or into
09:22	jcromartie	got it
09:23	jcromartie	(reduce (fn [x v] (assoc x (:name v) v)) {} @venues)
09:23	jcromartie	BTW, (doc reduce) doesn't mention it, but is there a lazy version?
09:23	chouser	can't be
09:24	jcromartie	oh?
09:24	chouser	in this case, for example, you're producing a map. Map objects aren't lazy.
09:24	jcromartie	yah
09:24	jcromartie	nevermind then :P
09:24	chouser	:-)
09:24	jcromartie	I suppose if I were producing a seq I'd be using map
09:26	chouser	this might work too: (into {} (for [v @venues] [(:name v) v]))
09:27	cgrand	jcromartie: shouldn't you dissoc :name too?
09:27	jcromartie	not in this case
09:30	jcromartie	actually I'm kind of torn on how to store this
09:30	G0SUB	cgrand: I am trying to scrape the Company column from http://money.rediff.com/tips/2010/01/20
09:30	G0SUB	cgrand: code is here ... http://paste.lisp.org/display/93872
09:30	jcromartie	I guess if order doesn't matter it's probably best to store a hash-map of ids, if I will be accessing it by id most often
09:30	G0SUB	I am not sure why I am getting all these nils
09:31	G0SUB	any advice will be appreciated.
09:31	G0SUB	I think my selectors are wrong
09:31	jcromartie	the content is displayed by JS
09:31	jcromartie	could that be why?
09:31	G0SUB	jcromartie: yes, but there is some markup.
09:32	G0SUB	jcromartie: I am getting the data, but some extra nils. that is the problem.
09:33	G0SUB	I am not sure if I am using nth-of-type correctly
09:34	chouser	jcromartie: btw, what you've got is very close to (clojure.set/index @venues [:name])
09:34	jcromartie	hmm
09:34	jcromartie	interesting
09:35	jcromartie	I'll check it out, that's probably better for my case
09:35	chouser	the keys look like {:name "foo"} though, rather than just "foo"
09:36	jcromartie	hmm
09:40	cgrand	G0SUB: looking at it right now, the nil are cause by the selection of the "View" links, looking what's wrong with those selectors
09:40	G0SUB	cgrand: thanks. I am investigating too.
09:44	cgrand	G0SUB: ok, found it, let me paste it
09:48	cgrand	G0SUB: http://paste.lisp.org/display/93872#2 the problem was with (select [:td (nth-of-type 1)])
09:49	G0SUB	cgrand: ah, I never understood the syntax properly. many thanks.
09:49	cgrand	CSS numbering starts at 1
09:49	G0SUB	cgrand: btw, is there anyway the :a selector can be combined with the :td one?
09:51	cgrand	and in [:td (nth-of-type 1)], (nth-of-type 1) applies to a descendant of :td not to td itself, you have to wrap them in a vector to have a "and" (while the outermost selector always mean chaining)
09:51	G0SUB	cgrand: understood now. thanks a lot.
09:52	cgrand	G0SUB: just (select [[:td (nth-of-type 1)]]) to (select [[:td (nth-of-type 1)] :a])
09:53	cgrand	(and remove the other select of course)
09:53	G0SUB	yeah
09:53	G0SUB	the issue was with the nested vector
09:53	cgrand	err I mean (select [[:td (nth-of-type 2)] :a]) with a 2 not a 1
09:54	G0SUB	cgrand: got it :)
09:56	G0SUB	cgrand: is there an easy way to select the :content directly? something like text in xpath?
09:58	cgrand	G0SUB: sure: text for a single node or texts for a seq of nodes
09:58	G0SUB	ok
09:59	cgrand	(-> url (select XXX) texts)
10:01	G0SUB	cgrand: is texts public?
10:02	cgrand	did you get enlive from clojars?
10:02	G0SUB	yes
10:04	cgrand	oops, it is slightly out of date
10:04	G0SUB	cgrand: can you kindly push a new version?
10:05	cgrand	but texts is simply (defn texts [nodes] (map text nodes)) and you have #'text, right?
10:05	cgrand	G0SUB: not right now, I'm sorry
10:06	G0SUB	cgrand: no problem.
10:06	G0SUB	cgrand: yes, but I want to get rid of the unnecessary map
10:07	cgrand	in the mean time, use your own "texts" (pasted above) or get enlive from github
10:07	cgrand	"the unnecessary map"?
10:09	G0SUB	cgrand: the map to get the texts inline. anyway, I will write my own texts. thanks.
10:12	cemerick	nice
10:12	cemerick	stuartsierra: I've got a rough patch for duck-streams that adds a dispatch to reader for Seqable -- interested?
10:15	G0SUB	how do I do a case insensitive regex matching in Clojure?
10:15	cemerick	G0SUB: use the 'i' flag in your regex
10:16	G0SUB	cemerick: any examples?
10:16	chouser	#"(?i)foo"
10:16	G0SUB	ok
10:18	cemerick	about the only thing I miss from python's is named groups
10:19	chouser	yeah. but hardly anything has named groups
10:20	chouser	I once chose python for a project exclusively because of the named groups. They were needed for the little DSL I wanted.
10:21	jcromartie	I still can't believe that the iPhone SDK doesn't ship with any regex capabilities.
10:21	cemerick	chouser: I mean the feature where you can name capturing groups, and retrieve them by their name, rather than idx.
10:22	cemerick	stuff like the numeric regexes in the reader scream for something like that
10:23	stuartsierra	cemerick: how does it convert a Seqable to a reader?
10:25	cemerick	lisppaste8: url?
10:25	cemerick	the bot is dead :-/
10:26	cemerick	stuartsierra: http://paste.lisp.org/display/93877 compose-paths would need to turn into a multimethod dispatching on the first arg -- the String case would reuse URL/File creation bits from the String case of reader.
10:27	chouser	cemerick: yes
10:27	chouser	cemerick: I knew exactly what you meant
10:28	cemerick	chouser: ah, I didn't grok the 'hardly anything' msg.
10:28	chouser	I mean, almost no regex engines support the named groups
10:28	cemerick	right, I get what you were saying now
10:29	cemerick	Python's is the only one I know of.
10:29	cemerick	and the regex engine I wrote :-P
10:29	chouser	the syntax is ugly, but that's hardly new for a regex feature. :-P
10:29	cgrand	chouser: cemerick: http://paste.lisp.org/display/93878 :-P
10:29	stuartsierra	cemerick: So the idea is that (reader ["foo" "bar" "baz"]) would return (BufferedReader. (FileReader. (File. "foo/bar/baz"))) ?
10:30	cemerick	stuartsierra: roughly, though File/URL would handle the canonicalization.
10:31	cemerick	cgrand: Looks nifty. Forgot contrib.core/-?> and (soon to come, hopefully) -?>>
10:32	cemerick	That's the only downside to parsing the forms, I suppose.
10:32	stuartsierra	cemerick: I dunno, that looks a bit too magical to me.
10:32	cemerick	i.e. having to be explicit about which threading forms are supported
10:33	cgrand	cemerick: unless you register them all in a threading-forms var
10:33	cemerick	stuartsierra: heh, fair enough
10:33	cemerick	cgrand: I think you forgot the ;-) in that one
10:33	cemerick	;-)
10:34	chouser	hm... would these all play nicely with destructuring-> ?
10:35	cemerick	stuartsierra: I've just been accumulating seqs of file paths all over the place, and doing (-> some-seq path-norm-fn slurp*) too much. :-)
10:35	cgrand	chouser: is your patch on assembla?
10:35	stuartsierra	cemerick: doesn't c.c.java-utils/file do that?
10:35	chouser	cgrand: http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/tickets/211
10:35	chouser	I think it might "just work"
10:37	cgrand	chouser: me too
10:37	cgrand	more destructuring fun! ;-)
10:39	cgrand	chouser: btw I realized that -> and ->> could be shadowed but thankfully we have &env now
10:39	jcromartie	is it OK to throw exceptions in clojure
10:39	jcromartie	?
10:39	cemerick	stuartsierra: didn't know about that, but file doesn't handle URLs shrug
10:40	jcromartie	I don't really see any special attention paid to it in the docs
10:40	alexott	is anybody know - who now maintains clojars? mail, specified at site isn't working
10:41	chouser	jcromartie: sure, throw try and catch all work
10:41	jcromartie	ah, throw is a special form, then?
10:41	chouser	yes
10:41	jcromartie	I was expecting a macro or function ("Unable to resolve symbol: throw in this context") in my search
10:42	cemerick	huh, I didn't notice as-url before though
10:42	jcromartie	fun with throw...
10:42	jcromartie	,(throw)
10:42	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
10:42	chouser	heh. reasonable default. :-)
10:42	jcromartie	that's the worst thing in Java, hands down
10:42	chouser	,(throw (Exception. "do not want"))
10:42	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: do not want
10:44	jcromartie	where are the various REPL vars documented?
10:46	stuartsierra	jcromartie: dysinger maintains clojars I think
10:46	jcromartie	wrong guy, stuartsierra
10:46	jcromartie	alexott:
10:46	stuartsierra	oh
10:46	stuartsierra	right
10:46	jcromartie	1 2 3 e
10:46	jcromartie	is that it?
10:49	stuartsierra	warn-on-reflection
10:50	stuartsierra	print-dup
10:53	jcromartie	those arent' repl-specific, though
10:54	jcromartie	how long has print-dup been around?
10:54	jcromartie	I ran into some issues printing cycles
10:55	stuartsierra	print-dup has been around for a long time, not well documented
10:55	jcromartie	hmm, but I guess print-dup doesn't do what I think it does
10:55	stuartsierra	I don't think Clojure can print cycles.
10:55	alexott	stuartsierra: thanks, i'll write to him
10:56	stuartsierra	alexott: Oh, wait, there's someone else
10:56	stuartsierra	"_ato" I think
10:56	stuartsierra	Whoever that is.
10:57	jcromartie	,(let [x (ref {}) y (ref {})] (dosync (alter x assoc :y y)) (dosync (alter y assoc :x x)) x)
10:57	clojurebot	#<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #<Ref@5b1cff: {:x #<Ref@ff78e9: {:y #}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>}>
10:57	jcromartie	clojurebot: was that fun?
10:57	clojurebot	No entiendo
10:57	jcromartie	I find it interesting that it stops at some point
10:57	chouser	jcromartie: http://paste.lisp.org/display/83647
10:58	chouser	jcromartie: the {:y #} is because of print-level
10:58	jcromartie	ah
10:59	jcromartie	handy
11:01	DeusExPikachu	when structuring a lib, for example, (ns foo (:use bar.core)), clojure tries to load /foo/core, instead of /foo/core.clj, any other filename except core seems to work. Is the symbol core special?
11:01	Chousuke	core should work just fine
11:02	Chousuke	many libraries use similar naming
11:02	DeusExPikachu	hmmm must be something else in my code, nm
11:13	CalJunior	I would like to create a subvector from an existing vector on multiple non-contiguous indices like so: (nth [10 12 13 14 15] '(1 3)) and return (12 14)
11:13	jcromartie	oi vey... what's a good way to find EOF-while-reading errors?
11:13	jcromartie	or rather the source of them
11:15	jcromartie	Emacs indentation!
11:15	jcromartie	huzzah!
11:15	CalJunior	I would like to create a subvector from an existing vector on multiple non-contiguous indices like so: (nth [10 12 13 14 15] '(1 3)) and return (12 14) but I get an exception.
11:16	stuartsierra	clojure-contrib master branch is now converted to Maven.
11:16	chouser	CalJunior: try 'map' instead of 'nth'
11:16	jcromartie	CalJunior: why do you think nth takes a list of indexes?
11:17	CalJunior	map, thanks
11:17	stuartsierra	I think what you want is (map #(get the-vector %) [10 12 13 14 15)
11:17	CalJunior	jcromartie: I just did.
11:17	chouser	stuartsierra: vectors are fns
11:17	chouser	:-)
11:17	chouser	,(map [10 12 13 14 15] '(1 3))
11:17	stuartsierra	yeah
11:17	clojurebot	(12 14)
11:18	stuartsierra	oh, yeah
11:18	stuartsierra	that looks funny, but it works
11:18	CalJunior	clojure: if it's not simple, you're not doing it right :-)
11:19	chouser	seriously. That's deliciously close to true.
11:20	DeusExPikachu	hmmm, I don't think, in swank-clojure.jar, namespace-to-path accounts for proper the possibility of needing to translate from underscore to hyphen when going from pathname to namespace
11:21	dabd	is clojure-contrib master in sync with clojure 1.1.0?
11:21	DeusExPikachu	cause I'm getting a "no namespace: foo_bar.core found", for the ns foo-bar.core defined in file /foo_bar/core.clj
11:26	stuartsierra	dabd: no, it's in sync with Clojure master
11:26	stuartsierra	dabd: there are 1.0.x and 1.1.x branches of contrib that map to corresponding versions of Clojure
11:29	dabd	is it recommended to use clojure + clojure-contrib 1.1.0 or clojure + clojure-contrib master?
11:29	DeusExPikachu	to be more precise, the call to ns-name in namespace-to-path is being fed foo_bar.core, which doesn't exists, I believe this is traced to the (.getClassName frame) in source-location-for-frame
11:30	Chousuke	hmmh
11:31	stuartsierra	dabd: depends on what you want. If you want a stable target, use 1.1.0. If you want to play with deftype/defprotocol, use master.
11:33	dabd	stuartsierra: thx
11:34	angerman	does clojrue support an easy way to merge two functions?
11:34	stuartsierra	merge how?
11:34	angerman	e.g. we have empty? now I want to extend empty? for another type.
11:34	angerman	basically a multifn
11:35	stuartsierra	angerman: that is not possible right now, but will be possible with the addition of protocols
11:35	Chousuke	you can redefine functions though, but doing that for core fns is rather evil :P
11:35	angerman	stuartsierra: ok. For now it would work if every function was a multifn dispatching on input type
11:35	stuartsierra	angerman: yes, but they aren't :)
11:36	angerman	Chousuke: yep. like using clojure core, except empty or renaming empty and wrapping it.
11:36	angerman	ok. so protocols are the way to get that
11:36	angerman	good to know
11:36	Chousuke	but (let [old-empty empty?] (alter-var-root #'empty? (constantly (fn [...] (...))))
11:36	stuartsierra	look at my Tuple examples for how that can be done with deftype/defprotocol
11:37	jcromartie	yay for atomic file saves
11:37	angerman	Chousuke: ohh, i've never dug that deep down.
11:37	Chousuke	very evil, but possible :P
11:37	jcromartie	I want to be able to ^C my server
11:37	angerman	stuartsierra: thanks.
11:37	jcromartie	and not lose data
11:37	angerman	jcromartie: doesn't ^C just send a signal to the process?
11:37	DeusExPikachu	for swank-clojure, is inspecting and evaling in the debugger not supported?
11:38	jcromartie	yeah but if it's in the middle of something like duck-streams/spit it will leave me with a junk file
11:38	Chousuke	jcromartie: you can't do file writes atomically but renames are possible as far as I know.
11:38	jcromartie	I'm saving with a watch on a ref instead of using a database
11:38	jcromartie	yes
11:38	jcromartie	that's what I mean
11:38	angerman	jcromartie: hmm. can you not catch the ^C signal, do cleanup and exit?
11:38	jcromartie	I dunno
11:39	jcromartie	haven't tried it
11:39	jcromartie	yeah it sends a signal
11:39	jcromartie	but this is a compojure app
11:39	jcromartie	not sure how to wire that up
11:40	stuartsierra	signal-handling is OS-specific, you need classes in sun.* to do it
11:41	angerman	and then it's probably though the application server layer that's killing the servelts
11:47	replaca	angerman: ^c is sigint
11:48	angerman	replaca: ohh. thanks. I hope it sticks this time :D
11:48	replaca	sigterm is what kill sends by default. There's no keyboard version of it
11:48	angerman	and sigkill is -9?
11:49	replaca	yeah,
11:50	replaca	but you can't catch it
11:51	jcromartie	ah, yikes, apparently duck-streams can't write Date objects?
11:51	jcromartie	that's kind of critical
11:52	angerman	(.toString date-obj)?
11:52	angerman	I'm sure it can write that one
11:52	replaca	jcromartie: I think that's kind of orthogonal to duck-streams
11:52	replaca	jcromartie: duck-streams just gives you readers and writers
11:53	jcromartie	so I need to transform every Date tucked into every nook and cranny of my data and also somehow catch them on the way back in
11:53	jcromartie	sounds like fun
11:53	replaca	jcromartie: That's generally true of Java objects in Clojure :-(
11:54	hiredman	jcromartie: what do you mean duck-streams can't write Date objects?
11:54	jcromartie	so there's no Clojure-y way to use dates, I take it?
11:54	jcromartie	I mean it writes an unreadable form
11:54	replaca	we really needs to have some sort of hybrid serializer
11:54	hiredman	I don't really use ds but I believe it just provides a stream
11:54	hiredman	it's up to you to do the reading and writing
11:54	jcromartie	yeah
11:54	jcromartie	I guess I could store timestamps
11:55	replaca	jcromartie: that's right - dates are just java objects to clojure
11:55	chouser	You can add a readable print method for Dates if you want.
11:55	hiredman	objects are printed using the print-method multimethod so you can add your own dispatch to that
11:55	jcromartie	ah
11:57	replaca	chouser, hiredman: good call
11:58	angerman	jcromartie: did you look at the astraction crafting from Full Disclojure?
11:58	jcromartie	no
11:59	jcromartie	I'm reading/writing dates now though
11:59	jcromartie	(defmethod print-method java.util.Date ...)
12:00	angerman	jcromartie: well idea behind the episode is representing Date classes as Long values.
12:00	jcromartie	ah
12:01	angerman	-> http://vimeo.com/8801325
12:04	stuartsierra	clojure-contrib 1.0.0 and 1.1.0 final releases are up! ZIPS at http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/ and Maven artifacts at http://build.clojure.org/releases
12:05	chouser	yay!
12:05	chouser	stuartsierra: thank you so much for doing that.
12:05	technomancy	thanks stuart!
12:06	stuartsierra	You're welcome, all.
12:06	LauJensen	technomancy - How do I get swank-clojure to work with latest pulls of c & c-contrib ?
12:08	jcromartie	brilliant stuff angerman thanks
12:09	angerman	jcromartie: it's one of the really worthwhile screencasts, doing a great tribute to clojure
12:09	jcromartie	much better than my printing a Date constructor :P
12:12	angerman	you just hav to print (date <long-date-format>) though I think
12:12	angerman	I'm still not sure it's sufficient if you need TZ info
12:12	hiredman	#=(date long)
12:13	hiredman	#= is read time evaluation
12:14	angerman	that was supposed to be a :) smily
12:21	esj	angerman: yeah, right this very moment Sean is working on putting TZ content into this library within Incanter.
12:22	angerman	java -> file -> libsvm -> file -> java -> ... seems just not "perfect"
12:25	StartsWithK	(defn str-plus [(-> (Integer/parseInt a)) (-> (Integer/parseInt b))] (+ a b)) in the 1.2 this will work? why?
12:26	Chousuke	it will?
12:26	StartsWithK	.. without a wrong place for right paren
12:26	StartsWithK	i just looked at destructuring -> and ->> patch
12:26	Chousuke	ah, right, that.
12:26	StartsWithK	and it will apply to fn to
12:26	Chousuke	well, it's just an extension to the existing destructuring syntax
12:26	StartsWithK	hmm
12:26	StartsWithK	why?
12:26	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
12:27	Chousuke	StartsWithK: probably because it's sometimes useful to apply functions to things.
12:28	StartsWithK	(let [(-> str a) 1]) vs (let [a (str 1)]), the second one is even shorter
12:28	StartsWithK	Chousuke, in function arguments? don't we have a better place for that
12:28	StartsWithK	like function body..
12:29	chouser	StartsWithK: that patch is not approved
12:29	Chousuke	chouser: it is in approved backlog though.
12:29	StartsWithK	yet :)
12:30	StartsWithK	i can't write any expression that would be shorter with that extension, maybe i'm not trying that hard
12:30	StartsWithK	is extra 'let' that a big of the deal for people?
12:32	Chousuke	probably not.
12:32	StartsWithK	(defn str-plus [a b] (+ (Integer/parseInt a) (+ (Integer/parseInt b)))) is shorter, (let [a (str 1)]) too
12:32	chouser	StartsWithK: it gets more interesting with more deeply-nested destructuring
12:32	StartsWithK	chouser, example?
12:33	StartsWithK	(defn str-plus-in-map [{(-> (Integer/parseInt) a) :num} {(-> (Integer/parseInt) b) :num}] (+ a b))
12:34	StartsWithK	(defn str-plust-in-map [{a :num} {b :num}] (+ (Integer/parsInt a) (Integer/parseInt b)))
12:34	StartsWithK	still shorter, and more readable
12:54	jcromartie	man, that abstraction grafting video was great
14:01	dsop	hmm I'm new to clojure and lisp at all and I have a question. I try to do a (gen-class) so I create a (ns) and use an import but in the defn the types imported cannot be resolved
14:04	hiredman	eh?
14:05	dsop	so I'm not sure how to import a class from a java lib like foo.bar.Baz and then use just the reference Baz in the further code
14:06	technomancy	cemerick: I usually do sound effects whenever I type them
14:07	hiredman	dsop: using ns or just using import?
14:07	cemerick	dsop: (import 'foo.bar.Baz) at the repl, or (:import foo.bar.Baz) in ns
14:07	dsop	using ns
14:07	hiredman	(:import (foo.bar Baz))
14:08	hiredman	I mean, cemerick's will work, but java being java you will want to import more classes from the package
14:08	cemerick	I'm guessing it's one step at at time in the early days :-)
14:08	dsop	hmm probably. In that case I try to access an enum from a class
14:09	dsop	:)
14:09	cemerick	that'd be Classname/ENUM_VALUE
14:10	dsop	arg
14:15	joshua-choi	Is there a standard sequence function so that (mystery [4 5 6] [2 3 4]) -> ((4 2) (5 3) (6 4))?
14:15	chouser	,(map list [4 5 6] [2 3 4])
14:15	clojurebot	((4 2) (5 3) (6 4))
14:15	joshua-choi	Ah, thanks
14:16	cemerick	dsop: no worries :-)
14:18	dsop	cemerick: so it should be http://pastebin.com/m7717b71e
14:19	cemerick	dsop: type is an inner enum?
14:19	cemerick	Centrality.Type, that is?
14:19	dsop	yes
14:20	cemerick	If so, it needs to be specified as Centrality$Type in the import (java inner classes are delineated by $ in the JVM -- javac just plasters over it for Java)
14:20	cemerick	Otherwise, that looks OK (though I certainly don't know anything about the APIs you're working with)
14:21	dsop	cemerick: works! thanks a lot
14:21	dsop	probably not the simples thing to start using closure with :)
14:21	cemerick	dsop: no problem :-D
14:21	cemerick	yeah, gen-class is definitely near the deeper end of the pool
14:50	cemerick	stuartsierra: it might be worth parameterizing the clojure version so that people can bounce back and forth using system properties if they're so inclined, and so that folks don't have to open a "scary" xml file to use a particular version shrug
14:51	cemerick	is there a reverse-map somewhere, or is (->> m (map reverse) (map vec) (into {})) the best there is?
14:52	stuartsierra	cemerick: yes, that's not a bad idea
14:52	stuartsierra	cemerick: clojure.set/map-invert
14:52	cemerick	I use clojure.version as the property, FWIW
14:53	cemerick	stuartsierra: thanks. Odd that it's in set.
14:55	stuartsierra	cemerick: Is there a simple way to allow people to "inject" their own clojure.jar as they would with the Ant build?
14:57	the-kenny	There's map-invert? Cool!
14:57	the-kenny	,(use 'clojure.set)
14:57	clojurebot	nil
14:57	the-kenny	(doc map-invert)
14:57	clojurebot	"([m]); Returns the map with the vals mapped to the keys."
14:57	stuartsierra	I think you mean zipmap
14:57	cemerick	stuartsierra: I don't think so. You might be able to wire up a target that deployed a provided file locally, and then set the appropriate clojure.version to something unique.
14:58	the-kenny	stuartsierra: Uh, yeah. Sorry
14:58	stuartsierra	cemerick: nah, too complicated
14:58	cemerick	yeah, I agree
14:59	stuartsierra	ok, committed & pushed
14:59	cemerick	Ant is like a band-aid: one motion, right off!
15:01	LauJensen	clojurebot: ant is like a band-aid: one motion, right off! <cemerick>
15:01	clojurebot	Alles klar
15:01	cemerick	oh, good
15:01	cemerick	That's gonna end up being my epitaph now. :-P
15:05	stuartsierra	Should the clojure-contrib version string have a branch name in it, like Clojure?
15:07	chouser	what's the alternative?
15:07	chouser	alpha/beta?
15:07	the-kenny	Das teta
15:07	the-kenny	s/Das //
15:08	stuartsierra	Right now it's just "1.2.0-SNAPSHOT"
15:10	cemerick	stuartsierra: I don't think the branch names in versions have panned out very well. e.g. when new got merged into master, 1.1.0-master-SNAPSHOTs were being churned out after 1.1.0 was released, containing stuff from the new branch
15:10	stuartsierra	yeah, that was messy
15:11	stuartsierra	That was because no one updated the version numbers, though.
15:11	cemerick	insofar as what is on a branch can change, it doesn't seem like that should leak into the version
15:11	stuartsierra	The only advantage was the ability to create snapshots of different branches.
15:12	cemerick	yeah, but still; really, 1.1.0-new-SNAPSHOT probably should have been 1.2.0-SNAPSHOT from the beginning.
15:12	technomancy	branch names are valuable if there's a branch of clojure that breaks AOT-compatibility with master of the same snapshot version number
15:12	technomancy	if that happens again we should think about it
15:12	technomancy	but putting "master" in the version number seems superfluous; it should be considered the default
15:12	cemerick	technomancy: my point being, if that's about to happen, then the version numbers should diverge.
15:13	technomancy	why not put the branch in the version only for non-masters?
15:13	cemerick	that's a thought, as long as branch names never get reused
15:14	technomancy	if they get re-used within a single snapshot version then we're in trouble. =)
15:15	cemerick	sort of the opposite of what happened with 1.1.0-master-snapshot, but I'd say it's possible :-)
15:17	alexyk	I'm loading an array of triples [x y val], to be added to a graph {x {y val}}. Doing it via (assoc-in graph [x y] v) is painfully slow. How should I structure the transient to speed it up?
15:17	hiredman	vector
15:18	hiredman	(as in, "that is a vectory, not an array")
15:21	alexyk	vector, right. Should I have transient map of transient maps, or transient of regulars, or what? I have about 3 million top-level keys, with about 30 inner keys.
15:24	dsop	has someone tried yet to put clojure code into a jar file and load it dynamically to runtime?
15:24	dsop	I mean load the compile classes
15:25	dsop	it seems that I cannot convince the clojure class loader to search for the .clj file in the actual jar . the loader seems to try to load it with the system class loader
15:25	alexyk	what I think is seriously lacking is a transient multi-level map with a clear way to update a key on a path. So far it's not at all clear how to do that.
15:25	cemerick	dsop: if you have .clj files in a jar, you need to load them via RT.load -- at that point, they'll be compiled
15:25	cemerick	dsop: the jar needs to be on your classpath, regardless
15:25	chouser	alexyk: I think rhickey has a plan for that, currently called 'cells'
15:26	alexyk	chouser: super!
15:26	cemerick	ut oh, gonna tick off the constraints folks :-P
15:26	alexyk	I've killed two JVMs today with Clojure running out of swap with 64 GB RAM. Hope cells show up before my deadline of 2/2! :)
15:26	dsop	cemerick: hmm this would make the classloader code depend on clojure. with scala it works that you put the library.jar in your classpath and you then can load other scala classes dynamically
15:26	cemerick	I'd say it's time for binding* (serial-binding)
15:26	chouser	probably needs a better name
15:26	technomancy	oh, that's what cells are about.
15:27	chouser	well, that's one related feature
15:27	dsop	cemerick: so without the RT.load trick there is no way for me to load clojure compiled class files with let's say URLClassLoader
15:27	hiredman	you can drive the asm library in clojure to generate a classfile that has no dependency on clojure
15:27	cemerick	dsop: oh, you've AOT-compiled to classfiles already?
15:28	dsop	aehm
15:28	cemerick	if you've got a (:gen-class) form in your ns, and you've compiled that file so that .class files are emitted, then you can put those classfiles in a jar and access them using the name of the originating namespace (by default)
15:29	hiredman	cemerick: I imagine he is running (compile 'some.namespace), and then trying to goes his merry way using the generated class
15:29	dsop	hiredman: what other way then compile should i use?
15:29	hiredman	the problems with this are many, the most obvious being the class and the namespace have the same name
15:29	cemerick	hiredman: really? Scala doesn't do anything of the sort.
15:30	alexyk	what I'm pondering now is inserting into ConcurrentHashMap; but then I'd have to convert it to a {x {y val}} graph -- is there a way?
15:30	dsop	I use (:gen-class), (compile) and put the stuff into a jar
15:30	hiredman	cemerick: huh?
15:30	hiredman	dsop: best to be more specific about your process
15:30	hiredman	but gen-class is not for dynamic code generation
15:30	cemerick	dsop: good, so if you then add that jar to the classpath of whatever app you want to run, you can access those generated classfiles as if javac had produced them.
15:32	dsop	hiredman: I have a outdegree.clj with a gen-class. I then use (compile 'outdegree) to compile .class files from it, I put them into a jar file and try to load the outdegree.class using javas URLClassLoader which should resolve references to other .class files i nthe same jar
15:32	hiredman	dsop: the first problem you need to addess is your namespace
15:32	hiredman	~compile
15:32	clojurebot	the unit of compilation in clojure is the namespace. namespaces are compiled (not files). to compile a namspace the namespace needs to be on the classpath and so does ./classes/ (and the directory needs to exist) because clojure writes the class files to that directory. http://clojure.org/compilation
15:33	dsop	hiredman: now in this case it aborts with FileNoutFound Cannot locate outdegree_init.class or outdegree.clj on classpath
15:33	hiredman	dsop: read from clojurebot
15:34	hiredman	are you sure you need to gen-class?
15:34	hiredman	if you don't, then don't
15:34	dsop	hiredman: yes I already did that
15:34	hiredman	dsop: nah, you obviously didn't
15:34	dsop	hiredman: yes, because I the plugin mechanism that uses the URLClassLoader doesn't know about clojure
15:35	hiredman	oh
15:35	hiredman	sorry
15:35	hiredman	wrong one
15:35	hiredman	~namespace
15:35	clojurebot	excusez-moi
15:35	hiredman	~namespaces
15:35	clojurebot	namespaces are (more or less, Chouser) java packages. they look like foo.bar; and corresponde to a directory foo/ containg a file bar.clj in your classpath. the namespace declaration in bar.clj would like like (ns foo.bar). Do not try to use single segment namespaces. a single segment namespace is a namespace without a period in it
15:35	hiredman	thats the one
15:36	dsop	hiredman: I use the ns name net.experimentalworks.clojure.outdegree. my file compiles to net/experimentalowrks/clojure/outdegree.class (and all other auto classes, etc) I then put this net/ dir in the jar
15:36	hiredman	ok
15:37	dsop	java loads it, it then calls colojure.lang.RT to complete the process and RT fails as it searches the standard class loader
15:37	dsop	if I don't load it dynamically but put the jar into the classpath during startup it works
15:37	hiredman	again
15:37	hiredman	please be clear about what you are doing
15:38	hiredman	you are running launching the clojure repl then running compile, then trying to load the class file from a jar using a urlclassloader, all from the same repl session?
15:39	hiredman	dsop: sure, as I said earlier, gen-class is not for dynamic code generation
15:39	dsop	hiredman: no I have a outdegree.clj with a gen-class in it. I run compile from the REPL. then I close the repl session put the generated class files into a jar file (http://pastebin.com/d2eb94aa) Then I load the .jar file from a java application using URLClassLoader.
15:40	hiredman	dsop: ah
15:40	dsop	and then I try to instantiate net.experimentalworks.clojure.outdegree
15:40	cemerick	oh
15:40	cemerick	dsop: you need clojure on the classpath as well
15:40	hiredman	and you have clojure.jar on the classpath for the java app?
15:40	dsop	everything works unti lthe actual initialization. Also the Class<?> file is returned and loaded correctly
15:40	dsop	yes I have clojure in the classpath
15:41	hiredman	dsop: where is the exception?
15:41	hiredman	like, did you pastebin it somewhere?
15:41	dsop	one moment
15:43	StartsWithK	,(-> 1)
15:43	clojurebot	1
15:43	StartsWithK	,(->> 1)
15:43	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$--GT--GT-
15:44	StartsWithK	shouldn't (->> 1) also return 1
15:44	dsop	hiredman: cemerick http://pastebin.com/d242dbc4f
15:44	hiredman	dsop: looks like a classloader issue
15:45	dsop	hiredman: for me it looks that clojure always searches for the acutal _files_ in the system classloader
15:45	dsop	and the system class loader doesn't know about the jar at all
15:45	hiredman	dsop: well, presumably you have clojure.jar loaded with the system loader
15:45	dsop	yes for sure, otherwise .RT wouldn't be found
15:46	hiredman	I think the issue is clojure.jar and your jar have different classloader roots
15:46	hiredman	so they can't interact with each other
15:46	dsop	yes for sure they have
15:46	dsop	the clojure.jar is loaded by the system loader
15:46	dsop	but that brings me to an idea
15:46	cemerick	hiredman: but net.experimentalworks.clojure.outdegree is being loaded just fine, just not __init -- seems like all the generated classfiles aren't making it into the jar
15:46	dsop	hiredman: thanks so far for the help
15:46	cemerick	dsop: ^^ meant for you
15:47	hiredman	cemerick: yeah, the init stuff fails to load because it tries to talk to clojure
15:47	dsop	cemerick: yes but the __init file is in the jar
15:47	hiredman	and it's classloader doesn't know clojure
15:47	hiredman	or something
15:47	dsop	it's because the RT earches for the __init file
15:47	dsop	hiredman: yes I guess so too, thanks for the help
15:48	cemerick	hiredman: if that were true, then it should fail in net.experimentalworks.clojure.outdegree.<clinit> trying to get access to Var/RT
15:48	dsop	I proberbly do nasty stuff here :)
15:48	hiredman	cemerick: right
15:48	hiredman	new theory
15:48	dsop	cemerick: the point is the urlclasloader can access the system class loader so it can load RT
15:48	hiredman	it's the check to see if the class file or the clj file is newer
15:48	dsop	but the RT doesn't know the urlclassloader
15:48	cemerick	dsop: you're running in Jetty, so you're a long way away from the system classloader
15:49	dsop	cemerick: true :)
15:49	cemerick	dsop: how are you providing your classpath to jetty?
15:49	dsop	cemerick: default classpaths in the WEB-INF/ directory, which is handled by gwt stuff
15:49	hiredman	RT's load stuff checks to see if the .clj or the .class is newer and loads the newest one
15:50	hiredman	so that might be the actual point of failure
15:50	hiredman	which is more promising
15:50	cemerick	dsop: and you have clojure.jar and your jar in WEB-INF/lib?
15:50	hiredman	(easier to deal with. maybe.)
15:51	dsop	cemerick: no I have clojure.jar in my WEB-INF/lib, but my jar is loaded dynamically from somewhere. It shouldn't be in the systems/jetty classpath
15:51	cemerick	well, there we go
15:51	cemerick	dsop: why?
15:52	dsop	cemerick: because you should put jars somewhere, reload the servlet and be able to load new jars without touching the .war file
15:52	dsop	cemerick: somekind of 'plugin system'
15:52	dsop	they basically just contain algorithms that should be loaded to runtime
15:52	cemerick	dsop: what is this "plugin system"?
15:53	dsop	cemerick: it's bascially just searching for jars in a directory and initializing a given class out of it, during runtime
15:53	cemerick	dsop: this is something you wrote?
15:53	hiredman	http://github.com/hiredman/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L402 <-- this is the exception you are seeing
15:53	hiredman	er
15:54	hiredman	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L409 <-- this one
15:55	dsop	cemerick: yes.
15:55	dsop	hiredman: yes this is it
15:55	dsop	cemerick: I'm not saying it's perfec,t but it works for java and scala stuff so far
15:56	cemerick	dsop: then, in general, you've got a bug or design flaw in how you're integrating with your parent (jetty's) classloader
16:20	defn	,(:macro (meta #'and))
16:20	clojurebot	true
16:21	dnolen	*** You have joined channel #clojure [15:55]
16:21	dnolen	*** Topic for #clojure: Clojure, the Lisp that makes the JVM dynamic. See
16:21	dnolen	http://clojure.org or video at http://clojure.blip.tv .
16:21	dnolen	*** #clojure: topic set by jcowan, 17:18:57 2008/03/07
16:21	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: dnolen rfgpfeiffer fedito dnolen-rec dabd` mccraig
16:21	dnolen	mudphone mikehinchey LeNsTR slyrus grosours jcromartie dysinger
16:21	dnolen	perspectival ynniv jkkramer krumholt__ ior3k Raz_ dsop heow choas somnium
16:21	dnolen	mrsolo hipertracker Hali_303 caljunior Kyrus duncanm opqdonut boyd replaca
16:21	defn	uh oh'
16:21	dnolen	Ash rdd dnm_ jasapp_ spariev_ the-kenny Guest19765 Hun ghotli ntoll
16:21	cemerick	ah crap, not this again
16:21	dnolen	lghtng_away _mst kjalarr hiredman mariorz gregh rsynnott Leonidas shachaf
16:21	dnolen	erg morty rys aking rowth hobbsc lisppaste8
16:21	defn	this could be very bad
16:21	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: headlessClown cpfr AWizzArd murbank mrSpec fmu jjames
16:21	cemerick	dnolen: dude, you've been owned
16:21	dnolen	shmichael jpulakka tomaw__ webben hoeck durka42 Strika rberger cburroughs
16:21	dnolen	wtetzner Raynes mtm Modius corruptmemory lopex walters probablyCorey hone_
16:21	dnolen	Knekk_ seangrove jbomo hipertracker-off danlarkin Chousuke therealadam
16:21	dnolen	morphling DeusExPikachu mabes dbx triddell romanb LauJensen StartsWithK
16:21	jcromartie	what the heck is that
16:21	dnolen	enebo stuartsierra wilig wlr Bjering_ froog_ st_ onion_ liebke ivan
16:21	defn	methinks someone doesn't know how to use emacs
16:21	jcromartie	I don't like it
16:21	dnolen	ivan_chernetsky fogus G0SUB
16:21	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: jamie_alm jweiss jfkw_ cemerick blubber-- shrughes
16:21	dnolen	geramuk l_a_m technomancy\|away cgrand OlegYch\|h__ fractalis dalkvist defn
16:21	dnolen	janm zakwilson scottj ndimiduk Licenser pavelludiq lhitchon mrmargolis pdk
16:21	dnolen	tomoj npm hyp3rvigi1ant andreaja polypus eno sattvik esj datka hdurer
16:21	hiredman	no ops here (ever) either
16:21	dnolen	xandrews Holcxjo KarlThePagan2 Fingerzam Luyt Draggor redinger ttmrichter
16:22	dnolen	dmiller2718 fivebats chouser j0ni arbscht ambroff jonafan smyge thickey
16:22	dnolen	angerman jedediah bobo_ skeptomai\|away
16:22	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: scode frodwith jarpiain rotty turbo24prg lenbust
16:22	dnolen	syntaxman strlen dthomas peddie broquaint ocher noidi Apage43 dmiles_afk
16:22	jcromartie	who can kick him?
16:22	dnolen	bitbckt metric cp2 shr3kst3r drewr nareshov marten shawn_ nuba Aisling
16:22	jonafan	wat
16:22	jcromartie	anybody?
16:22	hiredman	no one
16:22	dnolen	raek yason danm__ Drakeson clojurebot piccolino abrooks brixen srcerer
16:22	jcromartie	fun
16:22	dnolen	ts00000 gbj`` albino hchbaw bhall unfo- cypher23 haptiK TheBusby felipe`
16:22	dnolen	clows gravity mtd joewilliams codemonkeyx mfoemmel _alex _BLINDWHITECRABS
16:22	technomancy	there's always /ignore, fellas
16:22	defn	sigh
16:22	dnolen	fgtech Intensity leafw s450r1 eivindu
16:22	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: mikem nullman` sjbach @ChanServ
16:22	nuba	wth?
16:22	dnolen	<dsop> hiredman: yes this is it
16:22	dnolen	*** #clojure modes: +tncR
16:22	dnolen	*** #clojure was created on Tuesday 2007/12/11 17:04:26
16:22	defn	he's almost done
16:22	dnolen	<dsop> cemerick: I'm not saying it's perfec,t but it works for java and scala
16:22	dnolen	stuff so far
16:22	dnolen	<cemerick> dsop: then, in general, you've got a bug or design flaw in how
16:22	dnolen	you're integrating with your parent (jetty's) classloader [15:56]
16:22	defn	nevermind
16:22	dnolen	*** seangrove (n=user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit: Remote
16:22	dnolen	closed the connection
16:22	dnolen	*** seangrove (n=user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined channel
16:23	Draggor	copy paste fail?
16:23	dnolen	#clojure [15:57]
16:23	dnolen	*** kotarak (n=mb@ip-81-210-163-176.unitymediagroup.de) has joined channel
16:23	dnolen	#clojure [15:58]
16:23	dnolen	*** technomancy (n=user@71-23-19-98.war.clearwire-wmx.net) has joined channel
16:23	dnolen	#clojure
16:23	dnolen	*** dabd` (n=user@wifi.ist.utl.pt) has quit: Read error: 113 (No route to
16:23	dnolen	host) [16:02]
16:23	dnolen	*** nathanmarz (n=marz@204.14.159.167) has joined channel #clojure [16:03]
16:23	dnolen	*** ikaros (n=ikaros@f051195105.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined channel #clojure
16:23	defn	dnolen: you're ignored. sorry dude, but if you accidentally copy/pasted, you need to just quit your client so we don't have to read this garbage
16:23	dnolen	[16:04]
16:23	dnolen	*** _bob (n=bgr@dc5146e16c.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined channel #clojure [16:06]
16:23	dnolen
16:23	defn	anywho -- what's up all?
16:23	datka	You can only sit back in abject horror as you're powerless to stop yourself
16:23	LeNsTR	dnolen: u'r idiot -_-
16:23	defn	datka: lol
16:23	ivan	no, you can close the connection
16:24	somnium	M-x butterfly gone horribly wrong?
16:24	kotarak	LeNsTR: watch your language.
16:24	LeNsTR	sorry
16:24	defn	wtf is butterfly?
16:24	Draggor	kill -9 is a beutiful thing
16:24	defn	I just see "Amazing physics going on..."
16:25	the-kenny	M-x butterfly is a parody to xkcd :)
16:25	kotarak	defn: http://xkcd.com/378/
16:25	datka	That comic always bothered me because you wouldn't have a shortcut like that
16:26	Draggor	I should give vimclojure a shot again, unless there's something better
16:26	kotarak	Draggor: what is the problem with vimclojure?
16:26	defn	kotarak: :D
16:26	defn	Draggor: it's called Emacs
16:26	defn	;)
16:26	Draggor	defn: I like my pinky finger too much to use emacs ;)
16:27	kotarak	Draggor: take your chance to tell the author how to imrpove it.
16:27	defn	Draggor: just make caps lock your control key and use your ring, sweet heart :)
16:27	Draggor	kotarak: Last time I attempted I just never got it working, though at the time my install was.. borked, so I should try again.
16:27	Draggor	defn: Ultimately, I am way too attached to my different modes (visual/command/edit/etc)
16:28	kotarak	Draggor: let me know, when you have a specific problem.
16:28	Draggor	defn: And no mod in emacs ever worked to my satisfaction
16:28	defn	nod -- it's okay, i just recommend emacs to people using clojure
16:28	defn	paredit + clojure mode + swank === win
16:28	Draggor	defn: I used it when I was at a lisp programming job for about a year, so I got ot know emacs well
16:29	defn	okay before this gets any further -- let's stop the editor wars
16:29	defn	ive had this discussion in here like 30-40 times i think so far heh
16:29	StartsWithK	kotarak, ant build.xml plz :)
16:34	defn	i do not "get" enlive at all
16:35	kotarak	StartsWithK: hmmm... not sure
16:36	cemerick	defn: let me know if you have any Q's. I'm no expert, but I'm enjoying enlive a lot.
16:36	defn	cemerick: ill have a couple in a minute here, im just getting the skeleton of this project to stand up
16:37	Draggor	kotarak: if I want to use compojure, do I swap the clojure.jar with the compojure.jar?
16:37	defn	and then i have a question im sure you can help me with that has been baffling me :\
16:37	jcromartie	mmmm enlive
16:37	jcromartie	I'm using compojure too
16:37	cemerick	yeah, I was going to say...
16:37	kotarak	Draggor: dunno. Does compojure include clojure? Otherwise you need both.
16:37	cemerick	defn: there's a #compojure channel over there ---->
16:38	cemerick	no, compojure is just another clojure lib
16:39	Draggor	enlive looks purdy
16:39	defn	i dont understand how to get from tagsoup-ified output to actual HTML
16:39	kotarak	defn: with deftemplate
16:40	defn	that's weird to me -- why do i need a template if i dont want to transform the tagsoup at all
16:40	defn	im just trying to scrape a website, i dont care to transform it in the slightest
16:40	cemerick	defn: then just use html-resource and select
16:41	cemerick	defn: have you seen http://wiki.github.com/cgrand/enlive/ ?
16:41	kotarak	Draggor: what does purdy mean?
16:42	jcromartie	enlive_html.clj
16:42	jcromartie	it holds all of the secrets
16:42	jcromartie	deftemplate is a very simple macro
16:42	jcromartie	it's built on the template macro
16:42	Draggor	kotarak: usefull and the code looks nice (poor internet spelling of pretty)
16:43	Draggor	I think it's also a southern united states pronunciation of pretty as well.
16:43	jcromartie	it's a hillbilly/low-class accent
16:43	jcromartie	defn: you want emit*
16:46	defn	jcromartie: emit* gives me the "</" "a" ">" type output
16:47	defn	should i just apply str
16:47	jcromartie	yes
16:47	defn	ahhhh, here we go
16:47	defn	thanks jcromartie
16:48	defn	im building a scraper for the #clojure html irc logs
16:48	jcromartie	can you get the raw logs?
16:48	jcromartie	because that would be much easier
16:48	defn	you're telling me :)
16:49	defn	i dont believe there are raw logs but maybe...
16:50	defn	what i was really interested in is making a sort of extension of contrib.repl-utils
16:50	hiredman	my #clojure.log is 49 megs, but the formating is atrocious
16:50	defn	that would let you peek at mentions in irc of keywords etc.
16:51	hiredman	it changes through out the file to, as I switch irssi themes
16:51	defn	nod
16:51	defn	my logs are terrible as well
16:51	defn	and far from complete
16:54	defn	how would i removed an <a....> node with enlive
16:55	cemerick	defn: transform with [:a] (substitute nil) IIRC
17:01	defn	cemerick: could you give me an example?
17:02	defn	I see what you're saying but I'm not sure how to write it: (transform page-of-nodes (substitute [:a] nil))
17:02	defn	something like that?
17:02	defn	i get nth not supported on this type
17:03	cemerick	defn: I've only ever used transformations in the context of deftemplate, so I'm not clear on the exact fns that you need to use for 'bare' replacement. But, this might help http://groups.google.com/group/enlive-clj/browse_frm/thread/b309171ebcc253b5
17:10	cgrand	cemerick: nil is shorthand for (substitute nil) so you can do [:a] (when-let [url (:url data)] (set-attr :href url)) for example
17:16	cgrand	defn: (flatmap (transformation [:a] nil) nodes)
17:17	defn	cgrand: cool, exactr
17:17	defn	exactly what i was looking for
17:17	defn	thanks
17:18	dnolen	*** You have joined channel #clojure [15:55]
17:18	dnolen	*** Topic for #clojure: Clojure, the Lisp that makes the JVM dynamic. See
17:18	dnolen	http://clojure.org or video at http://clojure.blip.tv .
17:18	dnolen	*** #clojure: topic set by jcowan, 17:18:57 2008/03/07
17:18	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: dnolen rfgpfeiffer fedito dnolen-rec dabd` mccraig
17:18	dnolen	mudphone mikehinchey LeNsTR slyrus grosours jcromartie dysinger
17:18	dnolen	perspectival ynniv jkkramer krumholt__ ior3k Raz_ dsop heow choas somnium
17:18	dnolen	mrsolo hipertracker Hali_303 caljunior Kyrus duncanm opqdonut boyd replaca
17:18	dnolen	Ash rdd dnm_ jasapp_ spariev_ the-kenny Guest19765 Hun ghotli ntoll
17:18	LeNsTR	oh
17:18	dnolen	lghtng_away _mst kjalarr hiredman mariorz gregh rsynnott Leonidas shachaf
17:18	dnolen	erg morty rys aking rowth hobbsc lisppaste8
17:18	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: headlessClown cpfr AWizzArd murbank mrSpec fmu jjames
17:18	dnolen	shmichael jpulakka tomaw__ webben hoeck durka42 Strika rberger cburroughs
17:18	dnolen	wtetzner Raynes mtm Modius corruptmemory lopex walters probablyCorey hone_
17:18	dnolen	Knekk_ seangrove jbomo hipertracker-off danlarkin Chousuke therealadam
17:18	dnolen	morphling DeusExPikachu mabes dbx triddell romanb LauJensen StartsWithK
17:18	dnolen	enebo stuartsierra wilig wlr Bjering_ froog_ st_ onion_ liebke ivan
17:18	dnolen	ivan_chernetsky fogus G0SUB
17:18	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: jamie_alm jweiss jfkw_ cemerick blubber-- shrughes
17:18	dnolen	geramuk l_a_m technomancy\|away cgrand OlegYch\|h__ fractalis dalkvist defn
17:18	dnolen	janm zakwilson scottj ndimiduk Licenser pavelludiq lhitchon mrmargolis pdk
17:18	dnolen	tomoj npm hyp3rvigi1ant andreaja polypus eno sattvik esj datka hdurer
17:18	dnolen	xandrews Holcxjo KarlThePagan2 Fingerzam Luyt Draggor redinger ttmrichter
17:19	dnolen	dmiller2718 fivebats chouser j0ni arbscht ambroff jonafan smyge thickey
17:19	dnolen	angerman jedediah bobo_ skeptomai\|away
17:19	dnolen	*** Users on #clojure: scode frodwith jarpiain rotty turbo24prg lenbust
17:19	jonafan	FUCK YOU.
17:19	dnolen	syntaxman strlen dthomas peddie broquaint ocher noidi Apage43 dmiles_afk
17:19	dnolen	bitbckt metric cp2 shr3kst3r drewr nareshov marten shawn_ nuba Aisling
17:19	Draggor	and the fail begins again
17:19	cpfr	oh come on
17:19	dnolen	raek yason danm__ Drakeson clojurebot piccolino abrooks brixen srcerer
17:19	dnolen	ts00000 gbj`` albino hchbaw bhall unfo- cypher23 haptiK TheBusby felipe`
17:19	dnolen	clows gravity mtd joewilliams codemonkeyx mfoemmel _alex _BLINDWHITECRABS
17:19	LeNsTR	need bot
17:19	hipertracker	jonafan: use /ignore dnolen
17:19	hiredman	I still have him on ignore
17:19	defn	same here
17:19	Raynes	What the hell?
17:19	Raynes	O_o
17:19	hipertracker	fucking bot
17:20	chouser	please watch your language, guys.
17:20	chouser	likely an honest mistake
17:20	hiredman	he's not a bot
17:20	scode	Probably just an accidental cut'n'paste.
17:20	Hun	twice?
17:22	dnolen_	wowzers apologies
17:22	dnolen_	emacs erc foobar
17:22	defn	dnolen_: i will unignore
17:22	dnolen_	thx
17:24	jonafan	sorry, my circuits overloaded and i dropped an fbomb exception
17:25	defn	dnolen_: just FWIW, if you accidentally do that, just close your client -- on your end it looks like you pasted the whole thing, but on our ends it slowly scrolls one line..waits a second or two, posts the next line, etc.
17:25	defn	if you just cut your client you'll avoid (some of) the rage
17:26	dnolen_	defn: yeah, I didn't realize what was going initially, and thought I'd closed the client but hadn't really
17:26	defn	nod -- no worries
17:27	chouser	in the end, not as bad as most editor discussions.
17:27	kotarak	:)
17:27	defn	lol chouser
17:28	the-kenny	chouser: You're right
17:28	chouser	if for no other reason than that I have a hard time ignoring editor discussions. :-/
17:48	krumholt	did somebody just say "editor discussion"? :)
17:48	dnolen	funny enough that whole fiasco was caused by my newb handling of emacs the OS :)
17:50	Draggor	b'dum tish
17:57	zakwilson	So I need to write a custom smtp server. It's nothing too special; it just needs to have some hooks in to the mail delivery process. Any suggestions for libraries that do most of the work for me?
18:02	mabes	for some reason I can't get a request body from compojure: http://gist.github.com/286367 Any ideas on what I am doing wrong?
18:04	hiredman	don't you have to do -X PUT for curl?
18:08	mabes	hiredman: yeah, it looks like the data is coming across as form-params otherwise.. so the problem must be the curl command. I misunderstood the --data flag in the man pages.. Rereading the man page now..
18:23	erikprice	How do I put a call to recur in the tail position if I only want the recursion to happen under certain conditions? Making my (recur) call one of the expressions of an (if) is invalid.
18:23	erikprice	(Sorry if that message is a repeat; I wasn't registered with the nickserv the first time.)
18:24	joshcheek	Hi, wanting to use Clojure for my AI course, but I can't figure out how to have it evaluate a file, all the instructions I've seen deal with the REPL. Can anyone link me to instructions for setting it up so I can just type "cloj my_file.clj" and have it execute?
18:24	dnolen	erikprice: making recur a position in if is not necessarily the problem.
18:25	erikprice	ah. In my case, I'm attempting to call recur in an 'if' at the end of an anonymous function. Is this incorrect usage of recur?
18:25	hiredman	~dead simple setup
18:25	clojurebot	simple setup is http://www.thelastcitadel.com/dirt-simple-clojure
18:25	hiredman	the last line there
18:25	hiredman	if you tack the filename on the end of it, it will do what you want
18:25	dnolen	erikprice: can you paste the code?
18:25	joshcheek	thank you, hiredman and bot
18:25	erikprice	sure which pastebin do we use here
18:25	hiredman	erikprice: a function can have more that one tail
18:26	hiredman	each branch of an if is a tail
18:26	dnolen	doesn't matter really I like gist but people here tend to use http://paste.lisp.org/
18:27	hiredman	lisppaste8: url?
18:27	erikprice	http://paste.lisp.org/+20GO
18:28	hiredman	that recur is not in the tail position
18:28	hiredman	I don't see what you are trying to do
18:29	hiredman	at all
18:29	erikprice	that is wrong
18:29	erikprice	apparently I made a typo.
18:30	hiredman	you have a function, that when called creates a function, and calls that function immediatly, which returns []
18:30	hiredman	that is not going into the issue with recur
18:30	erikprice	after fixing my typo, I no longer get the compiler error about misusing recur - the function compiles. Pardon my boneheadedness.
18:30	hiredman	easier just to do (defn sift [s] [])
18:31	erikprice	This is the fixed version, FWIW: http://paste.lisp.org/+20GO/1
18:31	erikprice	s/fixed version/version without typos/
18:32	hiredman	is there a reason you use a fn like that instead of using loop/recur or reduce?
18:32	defn	I can remove all 'a' tags by doing (flatmap (transformation [:a] nil) my-resource)
18:32	defn	how would I remove all <a name...> tags?
18:33	defn	[:a {:name #"*"}]?
18:33	erikprice	@hiredman I tried using a reduce but I wasn't clever enough to figure out how to do it that way. I'm working on this exercise: http://fulldisclojure.blogspot.com/2010/01/code-kata-data-sifter.html
18:34	erikprice	My implementation doesn't work yet but at least I'm not getting the compiler error anymore. I'll have to revisit it.
18:34	erikprice	Thanks again.
18:37	hiredman	reduce can do fairly abitrarily complex things
18:37	hiredman	ar
18:38	hiredman	you would need use a vector and call seq or apply list at the end
18:39	hiredman	"After that, add the ability to take a vector/array as an input" is kind of ridiculous
18:40	hiredman	I mean, it's all seqable, so making it a big deal is dumb
18:40	defn	anyone know how to refer (in enlive) to <a name=...>? like [:a {:name}] seems like it would work but doesn't
18:40	hiredman	reduce will, out of the box, work on all of those types
18:40	hiredman	defn: well the reader would barf on that anyway
18:40	defn	yeah arrindexoutofbounds
18:41	hiredman	I would try {:name nil} but I don't know anything about enlive
18:41	defn	good idea
18:41	dnolen	defn : http://enlive.cgrand.net/syntax.html
18:41	defn	dnolen: thanks
18:44	defn	bah i still cannot figure this out -- what is wrong with me today
18:45	defn	(flatmap (transformation [:a] nil) my-tag-soup) works
18:45	defn	the tag-soup data looks like: ({:tag :p, :attrs nil, :content [{:tag :a, :attrs {:name "20:46"}, :content ["20:46"]}...
18:45	hiredman	sure
18:46	hiredman	that is how clojure.xml represents xml
18:46	defn	so what is [:a], really? {:tag :a}?
18:46	hiredman	what?
18:46	clojurebot	what is wrong with you
18:46	dnolen	defn: are you using enlive or no?
18:46	hiredman	clojurebot: thanks!
18:46	clojurebot	I don't understand.
18:46	defn	dnolen: correct
18:47	defn	hiredman: earlier I used transformation [:a] -- how does enlive see that? as {:tag :a}, no?
18:47	dnolen	defn: what is transformation? that's not an enlive function. something of your own?
18:48	defn	it is an enlive macro
18:48	defn	net.cgrand.enlive-html/transformation
18:48	defn	([] [form] [form & forms])
18:49	dnolen	defn: are you just trying to select some node are you trying to create some kind of custom transformation for your own use?
18:49	defn	i select some nodes.. I select [:div#main :p]
18:50	defn	the nodes it gives me back contain <a hrefs> and <a names>
18:50	defn	i want to remove all of the <a name> stuff
18:51	dnolen	defn: enlive has 'but'
18:51	dnolen	it's not a real css selector but it let's exclude nodes
18:52	defn	dnolen: the question still stands though -- how do i represent <a name>
18:54	dnolen	defn: looking to see if I have an example.
18:56	dnolen	[:a (attr? :name)]
18:56	dnolen	i think
18:56	dnolen	there's also the enlive ML if that doesn't work
18:57	defn	dnolen: I tried that earlier I think and didn't have any luck, but let me try again
18:58	defn	yeah it doesn't match
18:58	dnolen	what is the whole selector you are trying to use?
18:59	defn	(flatmap (transformation [:a (attr? :name)] nil) (select resource [:div#main :p]))
18:59	defn	that's the whole thing
19:02	dnolen	defn: did you try (select resource [:div#main :p (but [:a (attr? name)])]) ?
19:02	alexyk	so, with transient, if I declare one outside a loop as (let [res (transient {})] ... (loop ... (assoc! res x y)), I don't need to reassign (let [res (assoc! res ...)] ...) anymore, assoc! works on the existing, dirty, mutable, in-scope res, right?
19:03	dnolen	defn: oh I see
19:03	dnolen	defn: you want all children of those paragraphs just no links with names?
19:04	defn	yes
19:04	dnolen	more like this then, [:div#main :p :* (but [:a (attr? name)])]
19:04	defn	heh, the first version got me closer
19:04	dnolen	oops cause of typo
19:04	dnolen	more like this then, [:div#main :p :* (but [:a (attr? :name)])]
19:05	dnolen	:name instead of name
19:05	defn	yeah i had that
19:05	defn	hmmmmmm
19:06	defn	well this worked, but it's definitely not pretty:
19:07	defn	(flatmap (transformation [:* (attr? :name)] nil) my-resource)
19:08	defn	so maybe im picking the wrong selector before?
19:08	defn	dnolen: is :* the same as [:x [:y [:z]]] or just [:x]
19:09	defn	if i wanted to get to :z would I do [:* :*]
19:15	defn	dnolen: duh -- my fault -- i figured it out, i wanted to do (transformation [:p [:a (attr? :name)]] nil)
19:18	alexyk	the transient indeed works as described, dirty mutable thing
19:26	alexyk	hmm, freenode is pulsating again
19:32	joshcheek	Hi, trying to install Clojure. I followed http://www.thelastcitadel.com/dirt-simple-clojure but it doesn't seem to work http://grab.by/1Yca
19:41	chouser	joshcheek: probably shouldn't have both clojure.jar and clojure-1.1.0.jar
19:42	chouser	joshcheek: also might need to: export CLASSPATH
19:43	joshcheek	chouser: It loads the REPL now, thank you.
19:44	chouser	great! you're quite welcome.
19:45	joshcheek	chouser: I created a file "hello_world.clj" which houses the text '( println "hello world" )' What do I need to do to get Clojure to read this file?
19:46	joshcheek	(and print "Hello world")
19:46	chouser	try: java clojure.main -i hello_world.clj
19:47	joshcheek	chouser: Thank you, I'll quit bugging you now :)
19:48	chouser	not at all
19:49	chouser	if you feel very deeply grateful, consider picking up the book: http://joyofclojure.com
19:49	chouser	:-)
19:51	defn	chouser: any ETA on the next chapter or two?
19:52	chouser	defn: I don't think I can say anything useful except we're working on it
19:54	defn	chouser: cool cool, just thought id bug you about it :)
19:55	chouser	oh, I guess I can say that next up you can expect a re-working of the chapters already available, and then after that a chapter on composite types (the collections)
19:59	chouser	but all that has at least one round of editing before it goes on the MEAP
19:59	joshcheek	chouser: I didn't realize manning had a book for clojure, when I search Amazon, the only ones I've seen are the pragprog one (the one I picked up, which did not discuss how to do this), and one by apress, which also isn't out yet. Manning has a high standard of quality (in my experience with Ruby, at least), seems like it should be on that list :/
19:59	chouser	and I have no sense yet of how long that'll take.
20:00	chouser	joshcheek: Manning has two Clojure books on the way. I don't know why they're not on amazon yet.
20:02	joshcheek	chouser: I'll keep my eye open for it.
20:12	alexyk	I've finally found a way to sweep through my mongo graph very quickly with a transient, just at top level. Alas, it returns only a map with 8 keys, instead of 3 million. Why? Any transient quirks? Here's the fun: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/170077/
20:14	alexyk	it dutifully updates the nested map, non-transient one, for those first 8 keys -- the first in mongo stream. It walks all 37 million triples... And returns a puny res.
20:14	hiredman	alexyk: most likely you are bashing a transient in place
20:15	hiredman	I seem to recall the number 8 popuping in those cases
20:15	alexyk	hiredman: I do. Should I lay it comfortably on a sofa?
20:15	hiredman	no, you should use it just like you do the persitant version
20:15	alexyk	hiredman: you mean I still need to reassign it?
20:15	hiredman	it's not assignment!
20:15	alexyk	I've asked above and no one gave a damn
20:15	hiredman	did you read the page ontransients?
20:16	alexyk	so -- (let [res (assoc! res ...)] ...) ?
20:16	hiredman	http://clojure.org/transients
20:16	hiredman	read
20:17	alexyk	quick hack fiorst, read second
20:18	hiredman	it's not that much to read
20:18	alexyk	seems like adding res to recur will do
20:18	alexyk	did read it, just one example
20:20	alexyk	hmm
20:20	hiredman	possibly, I don't recall your code, but the key point is: design your algorithm for a persitant structure. if you need speed and it is threadsafe, you stick calls to transient and persistent in key places and suddenly it works for transients
20:25	alexyk	yep
20:25	alexyk	has to rebind it as persistent... example from TFurl works. Number 8 should go to FAQ or something.
20:30	hiredman	no
20:31	alexyk	hiredman: why not? thank you for catching it btw
20:31	hiredman	you don't call persistent until you are all done
20:34	alexyk	with the principled approach, yes
21:19	jasapp	is there a good introduction to protocols somewhere?
21:26	Raynes	Why doesn't (clojure.contrib.repl-utils/source doc) work anymore?
21:27	Raynes	jasapp: http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Protocols Pretty much covers it.
21:27	chouser	works for me. Are you sure you have core.clj on your classpath (not just the compiled .class files)
21:29	jasapp	Raynes: cool, thanks
21:37	Raynes	chouser: I have the clojure and clojure-contrib jars that leiningen downloaded on my classpath.
21:37	Raynes	chouser: I can (use ..) repl-utils but I cannot directly call a function from it without (use ..)ing it.
22:01	quizme	can somebody give me an example of how to use dochars ?
22:03	quizme	i'm trying to iterate on each character of a string
22:03	alexyk	I see working code like: (-> cursor .next .toClojure) -- can I omit parens if it's a single name? what's the rule?
22:07	Raynes	,(doc ->)
22:07	clojurebot	"([x] [x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
22:07	Raynes	Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already...
22:11	ztellman	a number of examples programs in Penumbra work under 1.1.0-new, and don't work under 1.2.0-master
22:12	ztellman	I'm willing to believe I was misusing something, but can someone give me any hints as to the differences between the two branches?
22:12	ztellman	specifically that might have to do with clojure.walk or applying metadata to vars?
22:16	chouser	huh. 1.2 is mostly backward compatible.
22:16	chouser	ztellman: can you point to a specific example?
22:16	ztellman	chouser: yes, but there's a lot of underlying code
22:16	chouser	hm.
22:16	ztellman	this relates specifically to the translation from s-exprs to GLSL shader code
22:16	chouser	maybe the stack trace?
22:16	ztellman	the stack trace just says that it can't infer the type of a particular variable
22:17	ztellman	in 1.1.0-new, it can; in 1.2.0-master, it can't
22:17	ztellman	the type is attached via metadata, which is why I think maybe that's the culprit
22:18	alexyk	Raynes: indeed, thx
22:20	chouser	ztellman: what's the specific error?
22:21	ztellman	chouser: I walk the tree, and the type inferences, and then check to see that every variable has a type
22:21	ztellman	in 1.2.0-master, it doesn't, and I throw an exception
22:21	ztellman	so it's not an exception from Clojure, if that's what you're angling for
22:40	ztellman	ok, I've figured out the difference
22:41	ztellman	in 1.2.0-master, (meta (second '(a #^b c))) returns nil
22:41	ztellman	in 1.1.0-new, it returns {:tag b}
22:42	ztellman	is this a bug, or just backwards incompatibility?
22:42	dnolen	backward incompat i think
22:42	dnolen	^ is deprecated
22:42	dnolen	you should use meta
22:42	ztellman	dnolen: ^ to get meta, but to assign meta isn't #^ still the way to go?
22:43	dnolen	hmm, yeah, dunno about that.
22:43	ztellman	is there a new tag reader macro?
22:43	ztellman	I know a^int is the way forward, once ^ is no longer a reader macro for meta
22:43	ztellman	but I didn't think we were there yet
22:43	chouser	ztellman: it may be a bug
22:44	ztellman	chouser: is there anything else I can do to help with this, or can you take it from here?
22:44	chouser	ztellman: it'd probably be best to post a description to the google group.
22:44	ztellman	ok, will do
22:44	ztellman	thanks
22:45	chouser	I may have some time to look at it, but Rich can probably glance at it and have it fixed 10 minutes later.
22:45	ztellman	just to be clear, the dev group?
22:45	chouser	if you're on the dev group, sure. But either is fine.
22:46	chouser	(meta '#^b c)
22:46	chouser	looks like it may be all symbol metadata
22:46	chouser	oh. wait, nm.
22:51	tolstoy	When you override a method using proxy, is there a way to call the superclass' version of that method? proxy-super is for calling other methods, right?
22:51	tolstoy	Something like in Java: public void doSomething() { super.doSomething(); myStuff(); }
22:52	chouser	proxy-super can be used to call the same-named method too
22:52	chouser	beware it is not thread-safe.
22:53	tolstoy	Hm. I get some sort of error when I do that. Let me see if I can trap it.
22:53	tolstoy	(proxy [Something] [] (doSomething [] (proxy-super doSomething) (other-func)))
22:53	tolstoy	that should work?
22:54	chouser	I think so
22:55	tolstoy	Yeah, it's what I'd expect from the docs.
22:58	tolstoy	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException
22:58	tolstoy	Hm.
22:58	chouser	that usually means the underlying method has no implementation.
22:59	defn	what are all the different types enumerated by metadata?
22:59	defn	like (:macro (meta #'and)) => true
22:59	defn	what other types of metadata like :macro exist?
23:00	chouser	it's an open set. you can add your own!
23:01	defn	sure i know, i guess i just mean does clojure.core have any others which describe what it is like :macro
23:01	chouser	I don't know of a complete list, but there aren't actually very many
23:01	chouser	:arglists, :tag, :doc ...
23:01	defn	sure, specifically im asking about other identifiers which are very closely related to :macro
23:01	defn	im not sure what to call that sort of identifier
23:02	chouser	the compiler needs that so it knows that a var is actually a macro, so deftype sets it.
23:03	defn	ah-ha!
23:03	defn	,(doc deftype)
23:03	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.types/deftype;[[type-tag constructor-name docstring? attr-map?] [type-tag constructor-name docstring? attr-map? constructor] [type-tag constructor-name docstring? attr-map? constructor deconstructor]]; Define a data type by a type tag (a namespace-qualified keyword) and a symbol naming the constructor function. Optionally, a constructor and a deconstructor function can be given as well, the defaults being
23:04	defn	why is it in contrib if this happens in core?
23:04	chouser	deftype was in contrib first, but meant something else.
23:04	defn	ah, for some reason i dont have deftype in my core
23:04	defn	maybe i have an old version of clojure?
23:05	chouser	defn: deftype is new in the master branch post 1.1
23:05	defn	chouser: thanks
23:05	chouser	1.2.0-master-SNAPSHOT
23:05	defn	many thanks
23:05	chouser	np
23:05	tolstoy	Ah, I made an interface which looks like a class I usually subclass. So, UnsupportedError.
23:06	wlr	chouser,ztellman: for me [clojure-version (meta (second '(a #^b c)))] => [{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 2, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"} {:tag b}]
23:07	chouser	wlr: thanks. The change that apparently broke it was 430dd4fa711d0008137d7a82d4b4cd27b6e2d6d1 Tue Jan 19
23:10	wlr	ah. ok.
23:27	alexyk	somnium: ping
23:28	alexyk	how do you convert a sorted-map back to a regular one?
23:29	defn	is there a way to go back?
23:29	chouser	(into {} a-map)
23:29	defn	oh duh
23:30	alexyk	ok
23:38	defn	(defn clojure-conversation [container]
23:38	defn	(doseq [k conversation]
23:38	defn	(conj container (text k))))
23:38	chouser	nooo
23:38	defn	:)
23:38	chouser	is that some kind of sick joke?
23:38	chouser	:-P
23:38	defn	unfortunately no
23:39	chouser	you can never ignore the return value of 'conj'
23:39	defn	could you explain what you mean? the implications?
23:39	chouser	hm, not quite. More like: any code that ignores the return value of 'conj' is useless.
23:39	chouser	conj doesn't change anything. it creates a new collection instance and returns it
23:40	defn	oh wait i think i see
23:40	defn	when you conj onto something it return it, but our function will never know about the return from conj
23:40	defn	yes?
23:40	defn	returns*
23:41	chouser	right, conj does nothing except return a new value. doseq ignores everything returned by the expressions in its body and simply returns nil itself
23:41	chouser	thus your clojure-conversation will walk through 'conversation', heat up your processor, and return nil
23:41	defn	so i want a loop/recur
23:42	chouser	(into container (map text conversation))
23:43	chouser	or loop/recur if you prefer more lines of code.
23:43	hiredman	you most likely want reduce
23:56	defn	thanks