#clojure – 2009-12-22

2009-12-22

00:00	arohner	the way you can tell a new feature is good: when you want it everywhere
00:00	arohner	I want pre and post conditions on multimethods now
00:15	chouser	arohner: I believe they're planned for protocols
00:33	chouser	anyone up for a pop quiz?
00:33	scgilardi	and how!
00:34	chouser	ok! where, in legal clojure code, does # by itself indicate a comment until the end of the line?
00:34	scgilardi	raises my hand
00:34	chouser	hm, maybe more of a riddle than a quiz.
00:35	chouser	yes, Mr. Gilardi?
00:35	scgilardi	On the first line of a file to be loaded
00:36	scgilardi	We support the shebang
00:37	chouser	ah, but I specifically said "# by itself" You're right that #! is a comment to the end of the line.
00:37	scgilardi	d'oh!
00:37	chouser	this is too hard.
00:38	_mst	hm, does #_ fail for the same reason then?
00:38	chouser	It's not really fair to ask such questions when I just stumbled on an answer that I didn't know myself.
00:38	scgilardi	let's keep the floor open for a while
00:38	chouser	_mst: right. #_ requires the _ and is also only to the end of the form, not the end of the line.
00:39	chouser	I have a couple hints that I think wouldn't give it completely away.
00:39	_mst	right, yep
00:39	scgilardi	fair enough
00:39	chouser	hint now, or wait a bit?
00:40	scgilardi	I'd say wait a bit
00:48	chouser	ok, first hint:
00:49	chouser	though the comment extends until the end of a line according to the applicable docs, there is actually one other character than can end the comment early.
00:51	scgilardi	yep, that didn't give it away. :-)
00:51	danlarkin	scgilardi loves his quizzes
00:54	chouser	:-)
00:55	scgilardi	is this behavior present in the 1.1 release candidate?
00:55	chouser	yes. Also 1.0 and 'new'
00:56	chouser	you're all going to hate me.
00:56	chouser	ok! thanks!
00:57	chouser	ah well
00:57	chouser	second hint:
00:58	chouser	I very much doubt Rich would be able to answer this.
00:58	scgilardi	now there's an intriguing hint
00:59	tomoj	I can't even see how you can have a # by itself at all
01:00	danlarkin	does this work? #\n(comment ...)
01:00	chouser	tomoj: oh? do go on...
01:01	chouser	danlarkin: you get "No dispatch macro for:" ... either \ or an actual newline char, depending on how you meant that.
01:01	chouser	...which is I suppose what tomoj is referring to.
01:02	chouser	The only other hint I can think of is to say what the "other character" is in the first hint.
01:06	scgilardi	what kinds of reads bypass the normal reader?
01:06	chouser	excellen question!
01:06	chouser	excellent, even.
01:07	scgilardi	regex springs to mind...
01:08	danlarkin	this is tricky, I'm running out of ideas
01:10	scgilardi	hehe
01:10	chouser	scgilardi: you found it?
01:11	scgilardi	I think so. checking
01:12	scgilardi	when compiling a Pattern using #", with COMMENTS mode on: In this mode, whitespace is ignored, and embedded comments starting with # are ignored until the end of a line.
01:12	scgilardi	not sure exactly how to construct that yet
01:13	chouser	scgilardi: ha! beautiful!
01:13	lisppaste8	Chouser pasted "Where in Clojure code # by itself indicates a comment to the end of the line" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92465
01:14	scgilardi	very nice1
01:14	scgilardi	and very nice! too!
01:15	chouser	scgilardi: quite impressive. I really don't think I could have done it from your end.
01:16	chouser	I needed a comment in my regex and had to go look it up when my first guess of /* comment */ failed. :-P
01:17	scgilardi	:) thanks!
01:17	scgilardi	I had no idea the pattern compiler supported humans.
01:17	scgilardi	The Rich Hickey hint was a good one.
01:18	chouser	learned about the "x" flag when doing very evil perl things.
01:19	scgilardi	so the "other character" is &quote ?
01:20	scgilardi	(spelled the usual single character way...)
01:20	chouser	scgilardi: right
01:20	scgilardi	very cool. time to sleep while I'm ahead. Thanks for the fun.
01:20	chouser	,(re-find #"(?x)foo # comment until the quote" "foobar")
01:21	clojurebot	"foo"
01:21	replaca	_ato: are you in channel?
01:21	chouser	scgilardi: good night, thanks for playing. -)
01:21	scgilardi	:)
01:21	chouser	:-)
03:36	hiredman	ya'll wanna see something cool?
03:36	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/images/Screenshot-Clojure.png
03:36	piccolino	So if I have multiple threads working and I want to serialize their writes to a file, the way to do that is with a regular Java lock?
03:36	hiredman	piccolino: seems like most people would use an agent
03:36	piccolino	Ah, that was my first thought, but the agent docs said that the functions should be side-ffect free.
03:37	hiredman	I think I would use a linkedblockingqueue
03:38	piccolino	How so?
03:38	hiredman	piccolino: that doesn't seem to stop people from using agents for that kind of thing
03:39	piccolino	I see. Don't agents have the possibility of re-trying?
03:39	hiredman	piccolino: not that I recall
03:40	hoeck	hiredman: which toolkit is this, SWT?
03:42	piccolino	Looks like Dr Scheme.
03:46	hiredman	swing
03:52	hiredman1	ugh
03:55	piccolino	Ah, I see, their state should be an immutable object, but they don't need to be side-effect free.
03:57	replaca	piccolino: you might want to take a look at cloure.comtrib.seq-utils/fill-queue
03:58	replaca	piccolino: mmm, that probably doesn't do exactly what you want, but you might get a good idea from it
04:01	hiredman	~ping
04:01	clojurebot	PONG!
04:05	piccolino	Hm, yeah, I'm afraid I'm not quite sure how to use this for what I want to do.
04:08	scottj	hiredman: what I think would be cool in a graphical repl is displaying sql query results in a sortable table
04:12	cark	hiredman : you're going for a "lisp machine style" repl ?
04:13	cark	or CLIM style
04:24	johnmn3	hiredman: looks cool!
04:26	johnmn3	some of the boxes look a little awkward, but that can probably be fixed.
04:27	hiredman	it is very awkward
04:28	cark	you need inspectable return values now =)
04:29	ordnungswidrig	what did I miss? Graphical Repl?
04:29	johnmn3	yea, looks cool
04:33	hiredman	cark: that sounds painful
04:33	johnmn3	hiredman: are you going to leave the gray background on there?
04:33	hiredman	johnmn3: I don't know
04:34	johnmn3	embed JTrees. Could Rich's inspector work?
04:34	cark	hiredman : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Listener.png
04:35	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/261648
04:36	johnmn3	yea, that's a little more advanced.
04:36	cark	wew i'm trying to find ome pictures of a clim repl with inspectable content, and google already has my last sentenses int here
04:36	cark	that's scary =/
04:38	cark	anyways what i mean is : you get a textual response from your repl, but you may click it to get an inspector
04:38	cark	that would aleviate the infinite sequence printing problem
04:39	johnmn3	what's with the *->ops convention you use? what does that mean?
04:40	johnmn3	does bq stand for Blocking Queue?
04:47	hiredman	yes
04:47	hiredman	blockingqueu to outputstream
04:48	hiredman	ack, the code I gisted is broken
04:48	hiredman	I was adding scaling to images
04:49	johnmn3	pretty sweet. I like how short your programs are (that you've listed here). after a little bit I can understand it.. useful learning examples.
04:51	hiredman	:)
04:51	johnmn3	and they're actually useful too.
05:22	alexott	i have short question - how i can create instance of java class, that is internal in other java class?
05:22	alexott	so for example, in java it created as M.Class(), but how i can create it in clojure?
05:23	cark	(new M$Class) i think
05:25	alexott	cark: thanks, I'll try
05:27	alexott	cark: hmm, doesn't work
05:27	cark	try fully qualifying your outer class
05:28	alexott	cark: ok, with fully qualified name it works. thank you
05:29	ordnungswidrig	I shouldn't try (repeat 1) in the graphical repl, though...
05:29	cark	the thing is : you need to import the inner class the same way you do for the outer one
05:30	cark	then you can use the short hand version
05:32	alexott	cark: ok, thank you... I'm not java programmer, so i don't know much details :-(
05:34	cark	me neither =)
05:57	johnmn3	this trick:
05:57	johnmn3	(future
05:57	johnmn3	(while true
05:57	johnmn3	never would have guessed I could do that.
05:58	johnmn3	does that spawn a thread?
05:58	Chousuke	yes.
05:59	johnmn3	hmm
05:59	Chousuke	you might want to include some way to stop the thread :P
05:59	Chousuke	(while @running ...) is one way
05:59	Chousuke	where running is a global atom
06:00	johnmn3	ok
06:00	johnmn3	in this instance, it's a repl running on a gui.. hiredman's gui repl
06:02	johnmn3	illustrative use of a defmulti in there.
08:09	prhlava	hello, I have solved one usage scenario for usage of gridgain and clojure, the modification: Var.intern(CLOJURE_NS, Symbol.create("use-context-classloader"), F) in RT.java made peer class loading work under gridgain. Is class loading in clojure due to overhaul at some time?
08:10	Jules_	How would you represent algebraic data types in Clojure? For example regular expressions like type regex = Char of char \| Comp of regex * regex \| Alt of regex * regex \| Star of regex
08:11	Jules_	Should I use maps with a :type field that is :char, :comp, :alt or :star?
08:13	interferon	is there a way to start clojure with print-level set to 2?
08:13	interferon	user.clj doesn't let me set! variables
08:14	prhlava	interferon: put it into "init.clj" file and call clojure with --init argument.
08:15	interferon	actually, is there a way to do it just from slime?
08:15	rhickey	java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main -e "(set! print-level 2)" -r
08:17	ilowry	Hello! Could anybody help me with Emacs clojure-mode & slime please?
08:18	ilowry	I've just intalled them, but every time I try to execute any expression in slime it just hungs.
08:18	ilowry	In the same time I able to execute the same form from inferior-lisp buffer
08:19	prhlava	ilowry: i did this (under debian and arch linuxen): http://riddell.us/tutorial/slime_swank/slime_swank.html
08:20	interferon	rhickey: thanks
08:24	ilowry	prhlava: thanks. I suppose I've done something similar. My config is here: http://paste.org/pastebin/view/13408. I use separately installed slime
08:26	prhlava	ilowry: what happens (in emacs) when you do?: M-x slime
08:26	prhlava	ilowry: do you get clojure prompt?
08:27	ilowry	prhlava: Yes I get clojure prompt and able to type something there. But nothing happens when I hit Enter.
08:29	ilowry	btw, swank-clojure I've got gave me WARNINGS about deprecated ^ macro, until I patched it to use (meta ..) instead
08:30	prhlava	ilowry: one thing - i use the latest repository versions for all: clojure-mode, slime, swank-clojure . Emacs is: GNU Emacs 23.1.1 . Is it possible that slime would be too old (they develop rapidly)?
08:32	prhlava	ilowry: I get the same warning about ^ but it works. But I do not use paredit...
08:34	ilowry	prhlava: yes, I've got the latest versions of the all from repositories.
08:35	prhlava	ilowry: :-/
08:35	ilowry	prhlava: the problem appeared before I added paredit
08:36	prhlava	ilowry: :-/ :-/ is this clojure 1.0 or 1.1? I am using 1.1 snapshot at the moment (but could try with 1.0 easily)....
08:37	ilowry	prhlava: it is 1.1. got it from github
08:37	ilowry	prhlava: built it with 'ant clean jar' and just 'ant'
08:40	prhlava	ilowry: pretty much what I did. For me, I pretty much followed the short guide (in the above link) and it just worked. I do update clojure-mode, slime, swank-clojure regularly and so far it just works. One thing I noticed that you do not use absolute paths in your config...
08:40	prhlava	ilowry: but it starts, so :-/
08:41	ilowry	prhlava: I'm under Mac OS X 10.5 and emacs (23.1.90) is from http://emacsformacosx.com/
08:45	ilowry	prhlava: it maybe that something in my Emacs init file interferes with swank clojure. I need to look at it more carefully. Thanks for your help
08:45	prhlava	ilowry: my work os is linux (debian or archlinux). Both work. My experience with macs is close to zero... But as far as I understand slime works over network socket, so maybe some security/firewall thing?
08:45	prhlava	ilowry: you are welcome....
08:47	prhlava	I would need to do (def clojure.core/use-context-classloader false) from code, but this does not work from user name space) Do I have to switch to clojure.core namespace or there is a way to set this symbol?
08:48	ilowry	prhlava: not sure this is a socket problem, as the other slime clients (sbcl, clozure CL) work fine, but I'll check
08:49	prhlava	ilowry: aha, then I am still puzzled. Good luck.
08:49	ilowry	prhlava: thanks
08:51	prhlava	have to go
08:53	Xenon1	ilowry: Maybe you could try this : http://github.com/citizen428/ClojureX It installs everything you need for using clojure with Emacs and TextMate. It worked flawlessly for me (both with Aquamacs and Emacs for MacOSX)
08:55	ilowry	Xenon1: Thanks for the link. I'll look it. But I just can not understand what is wrong with my current setup
08:58	Xenon1	ilowry: Well, if you install ClojureX you might compare the two setups and spot the problem ;)
08:59	ilowry	Xenon1: it maybe. thanks :)
09:29	LauJensen	Was ForkJoin included in JDK7 ?
09:35	LauJensen	~ google forkjoin included in jdk 7
09:35	clojurebot	First, out of 819 results is:
09:35	clojurebot	fahd.blog: JDK 7 - Fork-join and ParallelArrays
09:35	clojurebot	http://fahdshariff.blogspot.com/2008/04/jdk-7-fork-join-and-parallelarrays.html
09:43	ilowry	puff! Just solved the hung problem with closure-mode & swank-closure in Emacs. The reason seemed to be in slime-fancy module. After I removed it from the list given to (slime-setup ...) function in my Emacs init file, I was able to interact with clojure in slime. Just in case it can help somebody else.
10:14	chouser	with the same pride as one might reinvent the wheel
10:14	chouser	perhaps I should read about it a bit first
10:23	cburroughs	Following java practices I have namspaces that look like tld.company.foo.bar.bax.qux.partIactuallyCareAbout. This looks really annoying in the repl. Is there any way to shorten that in general (or just in slime)?
10:27	chouser	there are some advocating abandoning the Java conventions and going for more of a uniquepackage.PartThatMatters
10:27	chouser	and you can use 'import' -- that's about it, I'm afraid.
10:30	cburroughs	As someone working with lots of java people, I think the convention is for the best. I just want a way to mitigate the pain of a 60+ character promt
10:33	chouser	oh, just in the prompt?
10:33	chouser	I think there's a way to fix that.
10:44	rhickey	package aliases are a possibility
10:45	chouser	I would love package (and class) aliases.
10:45	rhickey	chouser: which?
10:46	chouser	hm? both!
10:47	rhickey	sounds complicated
10:47	cemerick	class aliases sound like trouble
10:48	chouser	for inner classes especially would be useful.
10:48	rhickey	chouser: these are inner classes with statics or enums, where you need to use the classname often?
10:49	rhickey	since you could always make an encapsulating ctor function
10:49	harrison	hm. does reify not support [& rest] methods, or am i just messing it up somewhere?
10:50	rhickey	harrison: does not
10:50	cemerick	yeah, I can see that. I've typed Field$Store/YES too much.
10:52	cemerick	still, just def-ing those constants seems like a better option than classname aliasing
10:53	rhickey	are we ready for RC2 ? or 1.1?
10:53	cburroughs	So in summary there is no in clojure solution now, but chouser thinks there might be some sort of slime magic?
10:53	chouser	rhickey: right, class names used as value (enums, constants) and type hints
11:14	chouser	cburroughs: in a normal terminal you can launch a repl with a custom :prompt set. I dunno if slime can leverage that or perhaps has something similar.
11:15	cburroughs	chouser, Thanks, I'll look into it
11:26	fliebel	Why doesn't await(-for) return the agent? I was surprised when I found out it did not. It's as simple as adding agent to the last line, isn't it? Can't hurt, in my opinion…
11:29	fliebel	alexyk: How is clojure-twitter doing?
11:30	alexyk	fliebel: fine, oauth works
11:30	fliebel	cool
11:38	chouser	fliebel: await takes any number of agents args. you want it to return a seq of those same agents?
11:39	fliebel	chouser: Hmmm, in that case it would not be logical to do so, but I think that most of the time you only use one.
11:40	fliebel	But in this case it would be a nice thing (pritnln (await (some-agent-returning-function)))
11:41	fliebel	Now I had to do (let [thing (function] (await thing) (println thing))
11:42	notostraca	I am new to Clojure, and I have no idea how to package an executable jar -- how do the fine people of #clojure do it?
11:42	chouser	(doto (return-agent) await println)
11:43	aking	notostraca: I've started using leiningen - works well. To make a jar, you just type 'lein uberjar'
11:44	aking	notostraca: details at: http://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/
11:44	notostraca	I couldn't figure out how to get it to work on windows
11:44	fliebel	chouser: would it be very confusing to add this to the end of await? (when (= (count agents) 1) (first agents))
11:44	aking	notostraca: I'm not on windows, sorry - but I believe they are working on windows support - check the maillist
11:45	notostraca	ah
11:45	chouser	fliebel: you saw my doto idea?
11:47	fliebel	chouser: yea… it's better, but… It's just not what I expected it to do, just an idea to make Clojure more intuitive or confusing… because I agree that it's not a good thing to return a seq of them.
11:48	chouser	fliebel: yeah, I'm not sure. fortuately for me my opinion doesn't matter, just rhickey's. :-)
11:48	lpetit	does anybody have experience with Eclipse RAP ?
11:49	lpetit	Trying to choose between alternatives to extend our current desktop application to enterprise intranet (low number of users)
11:49	lpetit	GWT is an option, but would require us to rewrite the whole UI part,and make it more difficult to share existing stuff too
11:50	lpetit	But GWT would refrain us from adding clojure eventually (or just in the server part)
11:50	notostraca	hi lpetit, tommy.ettinger here
11:50	lpetit	notostraca: Hi tommy. Haven't forgotten you, but my "hacking night" is tuesday, so it's tonight :-)
11:51	notostraca	yay for hacking night :-)
11:51	lpetit	notostraca: but still at work currently
11:51	notostraca	ah, can you use clojure there?
11:54	lpetit	nope
11:54	lpetit	not yet ;-)
11:54	lpetit	but thinking about it very har
11:54	lpetit	d
11:57	fliebel	chouser: Your doto doesn't work for me for some reason… I tried using an anonymous function, but nothing happened.
12:00	pdk	hm, what could be wrong with this syntax: (doseq [x enables] (. GL11 glEnable x))
12:00	pdk	"unable to resolve symbol: x in this context"
12:01	pdk	though could it be cause i used into-array to construct enables
12:01	chouser	,(doto (agent 6) (send inc) await)
12:01	clojurebot	#<Agent@5df3c5: 7>
12:02	fliebel	chouser: hey, the thing returned the agent, so I could put my own function outside the doto.
12:03	chouser	yes, doto returns it's first arg
12:03	fliebel	nice...
12:06	chouser	pdk: that's weird.
12:12	lpetit	pdk: shouldn't it be (doseq [x enables] (. GL11 (glEnable x))) or even better (doseq [x enables] (.glEnable GL11 x)) ?
12:12	chouser	probably (GL11/glEnable x)
12:13	chouser	anything starting with dot and a space should be avoided except perhaps when emiting code
12:13	pdk	hm changed it around a bit
12:13	chouser	but that doesn't explain the x error
12:13	pdk	(doseq [x (range (alength enables))] (. GL11 glEnable (aget enables x))) seems to run now
12:14	pdk	is this a known issue with doseq's handling of java arrays
12:14	chouser	no
12:14	lpetit	,(doseq [x ["a"]] (. (java.util.ArrayList.) add x)
12:14	clojurebot	EOF while reading
12:14	lpetit	,(doseq [x ["a"]] (. (java.util.ArrayList.) add x))
12:14	clojurebot	nil
12:15	chouser	,(let [enables (into-array ["1" "2" "3"])] (doseq [x enables] (prn (Integer/parseInt x))))
12:15	clojurebot	1 2 3
12:16	chouser	there shouldn't be any way to be inside (doseq [x anything] ...) and have x be undefined
12:32	jneira	, (reduce + 1 '(1 2 3))
12:32	clojurebot	7
12:33	jneira	@src reduce
12:33	jneira	jum
12:36	pdk	,(doseq [x (range 3) y (range 4)] (print (str "x: " x "; y: " y " -- ")))
12:36	clojurebot	x: 0; y: 0 -- x: 0; y: 1 -- x: 0; y: 2 -- x: 0; y: 3 -- x: 1; y: 0 -- x: 1; y: 1 -- x: 1; y: 2 -- x: 1; y: 3 -- x: 2; y: 0 -- x: 2; y: 1 -- x: 2; y: 2 -- x: 2; y: 3 --
12:37	chouser	I'm scared.
12:37	chouser	I think point-free style is starting to become more attractive to me.
12:37	chouser	someone help me quick!
12:37	pdk	point-free as in
12:38	chouser	(partial deliver p) instead of #(deliver p %)
12:39	jneira	, (source map)
12:39	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
12:39	chouser	~def map
12:39	pdk	hm
12:39	jneira	thnxs chouser
12:39	pdk	is bitwise-right-shift implemented in terms of java >> or >>>
12:39	jneira	my snd time in irc channel
12:40	chouser	jneira: except it doesn't seem to work. :-/
12:40	chouser	hiredman: I think github changed their line ids. it's #LID1705 now instead of #L1705
12:40	pdk	er bit-shift-right that is
12:40	jneira	the link goes to map definition
12:41	chouser	jneira: hm, didn't for me. glad it worked for you. :-)
12:41	powr-toc	chouser: any word on textjure? :-)
12:41	chouser	powr-toc: dead dead dead
12:42	chouser	or at least indefinitely abandoned. I just don't have time for it right now.
12:42	Chousuke	chouser: point-free style is just fine as long as you don't overdo it :P
12:42	Chousuke	fortunately, it's pretty easy to tell when you are overdoing it.
12:42	powr-toc	chouser: how far did you get with it?
12:43	jneira	, (clone chouser)
12:43	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: clone in this context
12:43	jneira	jum
12:43	chouser	powr-toc: a pretty simple swing-based repl with careful output handling
12:43	devlinsf	,(let [c (transient {})]
12:43	clojurebot	EOF while reading
12:43	devlinsf	(do
12:43	devlinsf	(assoc! c :a 1)
12:43	devlinsf	(assoc! c :b 2)
12:43	devlinsf	(assoc! c :c 3)
12:43	devlinsf	(persistent! c)))
12:43	devlinsf	Hmmm...
12:43	powr-toc	chouser: what do you mean by careful output handling?
12:44	chouser	powr-toc: errors, printed output, and return values are all colored differently. missing eol's are flagged but formatted nicely anyway.
12:45	chouser	devlinsf: stop abusing the transient!
12:45	devlinsf	chouser: Oh Yeah?
12:45	devlinsf	,(let [c (transient {})] (assoc! c :a 1) (persistent! c)))
12:45	clojurebot	{:a 1}
12:45	chouser	powr-toc: I started working on a flexible keybinding system to support both emacs and vim-style bindings, but got bogged down and distracted.
12:46	chouser	devlinsf: right, don't do that.
12:46	powr-toc	chouser: missing eols?
12:46	devlinsf	chouser: Seriously?
12:46	chouser	devlinsf: seriously.
12:46	devlinsf	chouser: what's going on I don't see?
12:46	devlinsf	chouser: Sorry, I'm trying to check some of the docs
12:47	chouser	I'm trying to come up with a breaking example.
12:47	hiredman	chouser: gah
12:47	devlinsf	chouser: for transients?
12:47	Chousuke	,(let [a (transient {})] (dotimes [i 20] (assoc! a i)) (persistent a))
12:47	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: persistent in this context
12:48	Chousuke	,(let [a (transient {})] (dotimes [i 20] (assoc! a i)) (persistent! a))
12:48	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$assoc-BANG-
12:48	Chousuke	hm
12:48	Chousuke	gah
12:48	Chousuke	,(let [a (transient {})] (dotimes [i 20] (assoc! a i i)) (persistent! a))
12:48	clojurebot	{0 0, 1 1, 2 2, 3 3, 4 4, 5 5, 6 6, 7 7}
12:48	Chousuke	see
12:48	devlinsf	Riht
12:48	devlinsf	Right
12:48	devlinsf	anyone: There's a statement in the transient docs I don't get
12:49	devlinsf	From the transient page, at the bottom : "Can't use after returning a persistent version"
12:49	devlinsf	,(let [c (transient {})] (assoc! c :a 1) (persistent! c) (assoc! c :b 2) (persistent! c)))
12:49	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
12:49	devlinsf	Is that right?
12:50	Chousuke	hmm. I thought that would throw an exception :/
12:50	chouser	me too
12:50	devlinsf	So did I
12:50	devlinsf	Is this a bug?
12:50	chouser	devlinsf: do you understand the earlier point though? it's important.
12:50	devlinsf	No
12:51	chouser	devlinsf: you have to use the return value of assoc!, just like you do with the return value of assoc
12:51	devlinsf	I see that only 7 items were read
12:51	devlinsf	Ah
12:51	hiredman	chouser: #L111 and #LID111 both seem to work
12:51	Chousuke	devlinsf: transients can't be used to write imperative algorithms
12:51	devlinsf	Yeah, I know that's what you want
12:51	Chousuke	devlinsf: they are not quite mutable :)
12:51	devlinsf	It's not how they behave
12:51	chouser	hiredman: #L1705 didn't for me in firefox 3.0. shrug
12:52	powr-toc	chouser: what did you mean by missing eols are flagged but formated?
12:52	devlinsf	Hmmm... oh
12:52	devlinsf	I now see you example about dotimes
12:52	hiredman	chouser: firefox and github don't play nice
12:53	hiredman	at work on windows with firefox 3.5 the line numbers never work for core.clj
12:53	chouser	powr-toc: I mean at a regular terminal repl, if you do (print "hi"), you actually see "hinil". textjure breaks them onto separate lines but sticks a different-colored marker after hi to indicate there was no newline.
12:53	devlinsf	Anyway, is my post persistent! modification a bug?
12:53	chouser	hiredman: ok. sorry for the noise. :-)
12:54	rhickey	devlinsf: correct use of transients is simple - write it without them, then add transient ,!s and persistent!
12:54	hiredman	I changed it to #LID anyway
12:54	chouser	devlinsf: I think so.
12:54	chouser	,(let [c (transient [])] (persistent! c) (conj! c :x))
12:54	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalAccessError: Mutable used after immutable call
12:54	chouser	looks like hash-maps forgot to implement it
12:54	powr-toc	chouser: ahhh gotcha... I've just fired it up now... Is there a way to eval expressions from the text area in the repl?
12:55	devlinsf	rhickey: See my assoc! exmple, though?
12:55	chouser	powr-toc: no, the top text-area is dead.
12:55	rhickey	devlinsf: which one?
12:55	devlinsf	(let [c (transient {})] (assoc! c :a 1) (persistent! c) (assoc! c :b 2) (persistent! c)))
12:56	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/images/Screenshot-Clojure.png :D
12:56	devlinsf	,(let [c (transient {})] (assoc! c :a 1) (persistent! c) (assoc! c :b 2) (persistent! c)))
12:56	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
12:56	devlinsf	granted, I'm misusing transients
12:56	rhickey	devlinsf: how would that have bee ncorrect without transient stuff?
12:56	chouser	powr-toc: someone forked it on github and hooked up the text area to real files (though without my keybinding stuff). But the repo seems to be gone? :-(
12:56	powr-toc	chouser: ok... so right now the only features it has that seperate it from the standard repl, are that it's swing based and has some fancy(ish) output handling
12:57	devlinsf	rhickey I'm modifying the map after psersistent!
12:57	chouser	hiredman: nice!
12:57	chouser	powr-toc: right. hardly even worth existing. :-/
12:57	devlinsf	,(let [c (transient {})] (-> c (assoc! :a 1) (persistent!) (assoc! :b 2) (persistent!)))
12:57	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap cannot be cast to clojure.lang.ITransientAssociative
12:57	devlinsf	That works right, though
12:58	powr-toc	chouser: Well... maybe not :-)
12:58	devlinsf	So I guess my question is that does my misused behavior constitute a bug?
12:58	chouser	powr-toc: but keybindings without a repl would have been equally useless. Maybe I should have started with the hard part. -)
12:58	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/261648
12:59	chouser	I do think this is meant to throw an exception. Not sure how important it is.
12:59	chouser	,(let [c (transient {})] (persistent! c) (assoc! c :x :y))
12:59	clojurebot	#<TransientArrayMap clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap$TransientArrayMap@104a681>
12:59	devlinsf	Yup
13:00	devlinsf	chouser: Saw the same thing this morning at my REPL
13:00	powr-toc	chouser: I'm a bit tired of not having a good clojure project to get stuck into so I can really learn this lisp and this damn language I find so interesting... anyway I was thinking a paredit style structure editor of somesort might be interesting
13:00	rhickey	chouser: yes, patch welcome
13:01	defn	anyone have any better ideas on writing this: http://gist.github.com/261911
13:02	defn	quick note: sort-ns doesn't sort anything anymore :)
13:03	chouser	powr-toc: would love to have that. Though it requires discipline to keep GUIs from ruining the rest of your Clojure code.
13:03	chouser	rhickey: against 1.1.x? I guess the patch will probably apply fine either way.
13:04	rhickey	chouser: no, master
13:06	rhickey	I'd like to cut a 1.1 release soon
13:06	chouser	what's it blocking on if not bugs?
13:06	chouser	worse bugs than we're finding?
13:07	rhickey	yes
13:07	defn	http://gist.github.com/261913 <---is that indentation correct?
13:07	rhickey	correctly formed transient code would never create that last bug
13:09	chouser	yes of course. It's just one of the checks built it to make transients safer to have in the language.
13:12	rhickey	chouser: the bigger issue is I'm unable to enforce serial usage (as distinct from same-thread) - I'm working on ideas for this. That's one reason I marked transients as alpha
13:14	chouser	to prevent bashing in place?
13:18	pdk	,(print (bit-shift-right -1))
13:18	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$bit-shift-right
13:18	pdk	,(print (bit-shift-right -1 1))
13:18	clojurebot	-1
13:19	pdk	,(print (bit-shift-right -255 1))
13:19	clojurebot	-128
13:19	pdk	so >>
13:20	pdk	that indentation appears correct defn
13:20	pdk	though emacs can reindent a line to where it should be if you press tab on the line
13:35	alexyk	How do you declare map parameters in defns so that you can call like (f :where a :only b) ?
13:36	hiredman	:(
13:37	hiredman	apply hash-map
13:38	hiredman	,((fn [& a] (let [{:keys [x y]} (apply hash-map a)] [x y])) :x 1 :y 2)
13:38	clojurebot	[1 2]
13:44	alexyk	ok! why sour face?
13:44	chouser	hiredman doesn't like keyword arguments. He wishes people just passed in maps.
13:46	chouser	don't we?
13:47	devlinsf	I don't think so
13:47	stuartsierra	There's a defnk in contrib, haven't looked at it in a while.
13:47	devlinsf	The use of &variadic-args and &&keyword-args everywhere is awesome
13:48	devlinsf	I've had this discussion many times with a Python buddy of mine, and I'm convinced it's more straightforward
13:48	devlinsf	(or is it * and ** ?)
13:48	chouser	args *keyargs
13:48	devlinsf	Ah
13:49	pdk	chouser's got it
13:49	devlinsf	Anyway, I think it's the price we pay for being a lisp
13:49	chouser	hm.
13:49	pdk	though in python keyargs would become a dictionary and you could supply as many as you wanted
13:49	chouser	or being compatible with JVM calling conventions.
13:49	devlinsf	Yeah, not sure which
13:50	devlinsf	Anyway, the point is keyword args is one of many areas Python handles well
13:51	devlinsf	Granted, I'm not going to trade parens for whitespace anytime soon.
13:51	devlinsf	:)
13:51	fliebel	Quite a lot Python references around here… both pro- and anti-python...
13:51	devlinsf	If I had to go back to a normal language, it'd be Python
13:52	devlinsf	I'm coming from a Rails background, too
13:52	devlinsf	Anyway
13:52	fliebel	"normal", that sound like Clojure agains the rest of the world...
13:52	stuartsierra	Lisp always feels embattled.
13:52	jneira	, (doc pos?)
13:52	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns true if num is greater than zero, else false"
13:53	chouser	no longer finding mutable collections or local variable acceptible, the number of languages to choose from has been reduced dramatically for me.
13:53	devlinsf	Well, right
13:53	stuartsierra	chouser: basically Clojure, Erlang, and Haskell, right?
13:54	chouser	nareshov: interesting, isn't it? Wouldn't it be great if the author of the blog would write whole book about Clojure?
13:54	jneira	scala is out...
13:54	chouser	er
13:54	hiredman	now you are unaffected by the paradox of choice
13:54	chouser	jneira: I meant you, not nareshov.
13:54	chouser	hiredman: and happy!
13:55	fliebel	Is there a, well… normal way to add lines to the end of a function in vim? At the moment that involves moving some parens around.
13:55	jneira	jeje but not alone :-P
13:56	pdk	,(doseq [x (into-array [1 2 3])] (print (str x " ")))
13:56	clojurebot	1 2 3
13:56	chouser	fliebel: (defn f [] ....), put cursor on opening paren, type %i<CR>
13:56	chouser	fliebel: is that what you mean?
13:57	alexyk	scala can be easily used in immutable way. Default List and Map is immutable, and so are val's. You have to ask for trouble and import mutable maps explicitly, and even rename themn is you still want to use immutable ones.
13:57	chouser	I learned immutable locals, collections, and lazy seqs (streams) in scala before picking up Clojure.
13:58	jneira	val x = new ...
13:58	alexyk	chouser: ah! a fellow polyglot :)
13:58	chouser	alexyk: I'm more of a serial polyglot. I leave my old langs behind.
13:58	chouser	when I can, anyway.
13:59	chouser	can't shake off this C++
13:59	alexyk	chouser: the beauty of JVM is, neighbors don't go away and it's tempting to share.
14:00	alexyk	chouser: so how did you let go if static typing? :)
14:00	alexyk	of
14:00	stuartsierra	Sometimes I wish there were a JVM language with C-like semantics.
14:00	pdk	c++ reminds me of that old "lose the beer gut" weight loss ad where a guy is getting chased around town by a giant rolling gut
14:00	chouser	Scala's a pretty good cure for that, actually. "Oh, you want static types? Here take all THIS"
14:00	alexyk	stuartsierra: C-like means *
14:01	stuartsierra	C-like means tight control over the size of objects in memory.
14:01	alexyk	chouser: 2.8.0 is coming along nicely. Growth pains. I bet you jumped ship in a moment of befuddlement. :)
14:01	alexyk	stuartsierra: which means * :)
14:02	stuartsierra	alexyk: which means memory locality, more cache hits, better performance, ...
14:02	chouser	stuartsierra: I'm looking forward to small-vm targets for Clojure. Not sure what that means exactly -- maybe C or C++ with simple GC or maybe just reference counting.
14:02	jneira	mmm i talked about a clojure implementation in c
14:03	stuartsierra	chouser: That would definitely be interesting.
14:03	jneira	with (malloc .. )
14:03	jneira	:_P
14:03	chouser	stuartsierra: I think alexyk means the literal C syntax * for pointers, not asking you to fill in blanks.
14:03	ieure	Argh. I read a piece on Hacker News last week about a dude who implemented Wide Finder in Clojure and had it running in eight minutes, but I can’t find the link now. Anyone have it handy?
14:03	alexyk	chouser: anyhow, Scala is a lure for Haskell crowd. And Clojure for Lisp one. So now they coexist, which is fun. I was pondering of a clojure/scala/jruby flow even.
14:03	chouser	jneira: no, not quite. The immutable collestions fall over if you have to manage memory explicitly.
14:03	alexyk	stuartsierra: yeah, I mean C is opinter-based, and JVM makes it moot.
14:03	alexyk	pointer
14:03	jneira	java = c - -
14:04	stuartsierra	alexyk: Oh, now I get it.
14:04	piccolino	http://meshy.org/2009/12/13/widefinder-2-with-clojure.html
14:04	alexyk	ieure: clojurebot: google concur next
14:04	ieure	piccolino, Thanks so much.
14:04	alexyk	member:clojurebot: google concur next
14:05	slashus2	What about doing Clojure in the parrot vm?
14:05	alexyk	clojurebot: google concur next
14:05	clojurebot	First, out of 500000 results is:
14:05	clojurebot	ongoing · Concur.next
14:05	clojurebot	http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2009/09/27/Concur-dot-next
14:05	cemerick	alexyk: not sure about scala being a lure for the haskell crowd. Those I know that like haskell distinctly dislike scala.
14:05	fogus	chouser: Creating a small C gc shouldn't be too bad, there are probably dozens laying around the internet for the taking
14:05	chouser	fogus: right.
14:05	stuartsierra	Doing GC efficiently is hard, I don't think anything can keep up with the JVM.
14:05	alexyk	cemerick: #scala presents real practitioners who do both with blue-collar monads (called gonads).
14:06	chouser	no, the benefits would have to target specifically areas that JVM is weak
14:06	chouser	startup time, memory footprint
14:06	stuartsierra	bit-twiddling, multi-dim arrays, ...
14:06	jneira	and why not in python vm?
14:06	chouser	stuartsierra: yes, but native libs + jvm can mitigate a lot of that.
14:06	pdk	"scala coders got balls man"
14:06	chouser	jneira: sure!
14:07	alexyk	i.e., haskell people who don't have to do any real-world work (e.g. JVM) have a luxury to not like anything else; if, however, reality dawns, they start liking Scala real fast.
14:07	stuartsierra	chouser: true
14:07	fogus	stuartsierra: Probably right; but it would be a nice experiment to create a small C target geared toward Clojure
14:07	jneira	dysinger siad that python vm isnt mature ...
14:07	jneira	jum
14:07	stuartsierra	It's certainly more mature than Ruby, but not on par with the JVM.
14:07	cemerick	alexyk: from what I hear, F# is a more attractive target there, but that's complete heresay
14:08	cemerick	hearsay*
14:08	chouser	perl5 as a vm?
14:08	jneira	juass
14:08	jneira	clojure vm?
14:08	chouser	jneira: you mean write a new one from scratch? :-/
14:08	cemerick	chouser: I know a fellow who wrote a scheme in perl5, put it into production @ his company :-)
14:08	chouser	ha!
14:09	chouser	beautiful
14:09	stuartsierra	One certainly can't complain that perl5 isn't mature.
14:09	jneira	it's a joke..jvm is a god choose
14:09	cemerick	he's trying to convince the bosses to let him open source it.
14:09	jneira	*good
14:09	alexyk	cemerick: I tried to love MS for F#, but it's too much. PowerShell instead of zsh? Instead of all Mac goodies, like, mine sweeper and solitaire? If there's a business need, though, F# is something special, and with all the VS support and task parallel library is finally a viable MS choice.
14:09	stuartsierra	Ever looked at the source code to Perl 5, though? Scary stuff, man.
14:10	chouser	jvm is brilliant as a first target platform. I'm looking forward to having other options. C, Objective-C, lua, JavaScript, etc.
14:10	chouser	golang
14:10	fogus	I'm looking forward to Clj-in-Clj... can we draw target platforms out of a hat?
14:11	chouser	:-)
14:11	pdk	clj for commodore 64 please
14:11	jneira	mmm .net is the snd platform ...
14:11	cemerick	js first, then cocoa/objc for some fun UI stuff
14:11	chouser	the first few will be hard as we run headlong into the kind of stuff Clojure .NET is already starting to deal with.
14:11	fliebel	fogus: what is the status of clj-in-clj?
14:12	chouser	Once those issues are resolved, I think the backends will be relatively straightforward to crank out.
14:12	fogus	fliebel: Don't quote me, but I think the seeds are being planted with reify, types, protocols. I'm not the person to ask
14:14	harrison	hmm. i was looking at MultiFn. looks like it could be made persistent quite easily.
14:24	jan__	I'm trying to set up slime with clojure, but when I start slime in emacs, the embedded clojure can't find swank.clj on it's classpath
14:24	jan__	can anyone tell me where I tell slime where it can find swank?
14:25	grantmichaels	jan__ at the brothel
14:25	polypus	:)
14:25	jan__	ah, doubt that will work :)
14:25	pdk	http://riddell.us/tutorial/slime_swank/slime_swank.html step to "configure emacs" i think
14:26	pdk	though if you're on windows you could dl clojure in a box
14:26	jan__	running on linux
14:26	jan__	tried that "configure emacs" step, but it doesn't work
14:26	grantmichaels	jan__ you're here for MVCC, i know how you are =)
14:26	alexyk	back to our sheep
14:27	alexyk	,((fn [& a] (let [{:keys [x y]} (apply hash-map a)] [x y])) :x 1 :y 2)
14:27	clojurebot	[1 2]
14:27	alexyk	now, if I want default values for x and y, what's the most gorges way to di them? :)
14:27	alexyk	do
14:28	cemerick	alexyk: you can provide defaults in map destructuring via :or
14:28	pdk	,(let [x (into-array [[(int 1) 2] [3 4]])] (print (str (aget x 1) "; " (aget x 2) "; " (aget x 1 1) "; " (aget x 2 1) "; " x)))
14:28	clojurebot	java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException
14:28	pdk	,(let [x (into-array [[(int 1) 2] [3 4]])] (print (str (aget x 0) "; " (aget x 1) "; " (aget x 0 0) "; " (aget x 1 0) "; " x)))
14:28	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Argument is not an array
14:28	alexyk	cemerick: where do I stick :or again?
14:30	pdk	,(let [x (Integer[][].)] x)
14:30	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Expecting var, but Integer is mapped to class java.lang.Integer
14:30	jan__	slime says Clojure 1.0.0--SNAPSHOT
14:30	jan__	user=> java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate swank/swank__init.class or swank/swank.clj on classpath: (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
14:30	jan__	user=> user=> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: swank.swank (NO_SOURCE_FILE:3)
14:30	jan__	user=> user=> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: swank.swank (NO_SOURCE_FILE:5)
14:30	jan__	user=> user=>
14:30	fliebel	What is a good way to learn all the functions that keep me from using loop? Like reduce, map, doseq, etc. It's not very easy to browse the whole api every time I need to write a loop.
14:31	dysinger	jan__: ! what the heck are you doing in here ? :P
14:31	chouser	Maybe the bottom half of http://clojure.org/sequences
14:31	chouser	fliebel: Maybe the bottom half of http://clojure.org/sequences ?
14:31	pdk	http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html has code examples of various looping constructs
14:32	fliebel	chouser: hmmmm, I'll look at that, although not very informative it does group them.
14:32	pdk	,(let [x (into-array [(ints [1 2]) (ints [3 4])])] (print (str (aget x 0) "; " (aget x 1) "; " (aget x 0 0) "; " (aget x 1 0) "; " x)))
14:32	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to [I
14:33	jan__	dysinger: trying to see if someone could shed some light on what I'm doing wrong
14:36	alexyk	when testing destructuring, I currently do it like: ((fn [{k :k :or 10 v :v}] (print k v)) {:k 1 :v 2})
14:36	alexyk	does (binding ...) do that too or only vars?
14:37	alexyk	is there a shorter way to test-destructure?
14:40	grantmichaels	dysinger: he saw the MVCC sign ...
14:40	pdk	ok what types can you pass to ints/floats/etc
14:40	mebaran151	anybody here use enclojure with the latest clojure plugin
14:40	fliebel	What is a good implicit loop for going through a list and for every item verify a condition, and if it's true return that item.
14:40	mebaran151	*clojure version, 1.1.0 master
14:40	mebaran151	fliebel, filter?
14:41	mebaran151	(filter verifier list)
14:41	lpetit	Mr Ettinger ?
14:41	fogus	fliebel: Are you building a list of the results? If so, then probably `for`
14:41	chouser	,((fn [{k :k v :v :or {v 10}}] (print k v)) {:k 1})
14:41	clojurebot	1 10
14:42	fliebel	mebaran151: no, I want to return the first match only, not all that match. I might do first on the result, but that seems like a waste of recourses.
14:42	fliebel	fogus: no, only the first matching item
14:43	chouser	fliebel: no waste using 'first' -- filter is lazy!
14:44	mebaran151	yeah I thought filter was lazy
14:44	chouser	you could also make 'some' work, though it may be awkward depending on your exact case.
14:44	fliebel	chouser: so it's going to filter until it finds one match?
14:44	fliebel	I'll check out some
14:44	mebaran151	more like, when you ask for the first element, it'll run through the list until it finds one that matches
14:45	fogus	,(some #{3} [1 2 3 4])
14:45	clojurebot	3
14:45	chouser	fliebel: not until you call 'first' on it, but yeah.
14:45	fogus	this is a special case though
14:46	piccolino	Does send-off create a new thread every time you call it on the same agent?
14:47	chouser	piccolino: good question! Pretty sure it doesn't, but I'll check.
14:48	chouser	piccolino: no, it does not.
14:48	fliebel	There is one problem with filter and some… I need to have state, I need to check if a file exists in a directory, if it does not, move on directory up and try again.
14:48	piccolino	chouser, OK, thanks for checking. It was a bit difficult to tell from the docs.
14:48	DeusExPikachu	is parenthesis balancing handled by the reader?
14:49	johnmn3	reading that blog (blog.fogus.me).. that usage of :post and :pre.. Might be useful for some kind of input validation template system?
14:49	johnmn3	erm
14:49	johnmn3	I'm not trying to be cheeky
14:50	fogus	fliebel: Why is state needed?
14:50	fliebel	fogus: because I can't think functional I guess… :$
14:51	stuartsierra	johnmn3: I think :pre/:post are meant more for code assertions; since they're disabled by default outside the REPL
14:51	fliebel	fogus: I'll have to rethink my approach I think...
14:51	johnmn3	stuartsierra: oh
14:55	johnmn3	fliebel: what's the basic algorithm you have in your head for checking for the files existence?
14:55	mebaran151	anybody here use enclojure
14:55	mebaran151	I can't get the repl to work with 1.1 master
14:55	mitchellh	Simple question: What is the general method people use to run the clojure program JARs? I mean, if the JAR has 11 other JAR dependencies, how does one setup the class paths? Just setup a bash script for the user and list the deps?
14:56	mebaran151	mitchellh, you could just make an uberjar use lein
14:56	mebaran151	and then it gets run like a normal jar with main, all dep included
14:57	fliebel	johnmn3: I'm not sure… but what I want to do is use the most "detailed" file. so first I check for a file in the current directory with a specific name, else I want to have the closest general file.
14:58	fliebel	johnmn3: I'm now trying to make a seq from a path that goes like a/b/c a/b a
14:58	mitchellh	mebaran151: Some googling lein = Leiningen ?
14:58	mitchellh	I'm reading about it now
15:00	mebaran151	yeah
15:00	mebaran151	it's a nifty buiild tool
15:00	mebaran151	someone decided to finally make Maven sane
15:00	mitchellh	mebaran151: This is great, but what if I'm writing a lib? It would make sense to not make the uberjar there to keep the lib clean.
15:01	mebaran151	you can declare dependencies in the lein buildfile
15:01	mebaran151	and then make a pom.xml
15:01	mebaran151	using lein pom
15:01	mebaran151	people who use your library with maven will automagically fetch the required dependencies
15:01	mitchellh	Fantastic
15:02	johnmn3	fliebel: well I'm pretty noob at this, but I'd do that, then get the contents of each of those directories, filter each with regex, stopping at the first one should get you the most "detailed," right?
15:02	mitchellh	mebaran151: Well, before I ask any other noobish quetsions, I'm going to go read about this and play around with it :) Thanks
15:02	mebaran151	yeah
15:02	mebaran151	they made it way to easy to install
15:02	mebaran151	are you on windows or UNIXy?
15:02	mitchellh	mebaran151: unix
15:02	fliebel	johnmn3: yea, that's what I'm aiming at
15:02	mebaran151	it's supposed to be broken on windows unfortunately, due to some assumptions about scripting
15:03	mebaran151	yeah, then you're set
15:03	mitchellh	Supporting windows [easily] is something I'm not worried about
15:03	mitchellh	Thanks
15:03	fliebel	johnmn3: not sure how to make that seq...
15:03	johnmn3	fliebel: ok.. I'm thinking you should be able to do that pretty functionally
15:03	pdk	the simplest working way i've found so far to create say a java int[][] is basically: (into-array (into-array [1 2]) (into-array [3 4]))
15:04	pdk	there's probably better eh
15:04	mebaran151	mitchellh, the jars will work, the build process will not
15:04	fliebel	johnmn3: I agree… but how? :D
15:04	mebaran151	though I suppose if they don't edit your pom.xml, maven should work on windows
15:04	mebaran151	it's mostly interacting with lein itself that would get problematic
15:04	johnmn3	fliebel: not sure off the top of my head.. what's java's getPath method?
15:06	johnmn3	fliebel: or do you just want to work with the string "a\b\c" ?
15:06	fogus	stuartsierra: "Disabled outside the REPL"... what do you mean?
15:06	stuartsierra	fogus: I think assert is false by default, except in the REPL
15:07	fliebel	johnmn3: I don't care, as long as it works...
15:07	fogus	stuartsierra: I always assumed that was for `(assert)`
15:08	johnmn3	fliebel: well this is a start
15:08	johnmn3	,(apply str (drop-last "/a/b/c"))
15:08	clojurebot	"/a/b/"
15:08	fogus	If I compile my blog example, it still throws the :post exception
15:08	fogus	stuartsierra: If I compile my blog example, it still throws the :post exception
15:09	stuartsierra	someone said that, maybe it's wrong
15:10	fliebel	johnmn3: the point is that filenames are not 1 char in the real world
15:10	lisppaste8	fogus pasted ":pre :post aot" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/92494
15:11	defn	How do you get an environmental variable like $HOME into clojure?
15:12	johnmn3	fliebel: ah, right
15:13	fliebel	johnmn3: I'm nearly there...
15:13	fliebel	,(seq (.split "abc/def/ghi "/"))
15:13	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
15:13	fogus	,(System/getenv "HOME")
15:13	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission getenv.HOME)
15:13	fliebel	,(seq (.split "a/b/c" "/"))
15:13	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
15:14	fogus	defn: ^^ doesn't work here but should work on your box
15:14	defn	fogus: thanks
15:15	fogus	defn: np
15:15	fliebel	is there something like map that gives me access to the previous item?
15:15	mebaran151	i wish there were a way to associate an agent with a given security context
15:15	stuartsierra	$HOME is also (System/getProperty "user.home")
15:16	defn	stuartsierra: is one preferred?
15:16	mebaran151	I'm sure it exists, but it seems like the threadpool forkjoin clojure uses might not agree with the thread context model
15:16	defn	over the other i mean...
15:16	defn	fliebel: sorry for not replying to your email yet, im busy with some work stuff until the holidays
15:16	stuartsierra	defn: The System property is more portable.
15:16	johnmn3	,(re-split #"/" "/a/b/c")
15:16	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: re-split in this context
15:16	johnmn3	mmm
15:17	defn	,(use 'clojure.contrib.str-utils)
15:17	clojurebot	nil
15:17	defn	,(re-split #"/" "a/b/c")
15:17	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
15:17	johnmn3	oh
15:17	johnmn3	is there a way to split without losing the delimiter?
15:18	fliebel	defn: it's fine
15:18	johnmn3	you could just add the / back onto it afterwords
15:18	defn	fliebel: nice parser though :)
15:19	defn	johnmn3: split-with i believe
15:19	defn	,(split-with #"/" "a/b/c")
15:19	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.regex.Pattern cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
15:19	fliebel	defn: I'm now working on the template stuff
15:19	johnmn3	fliebel: oh. didn't see that you'd already split it up there.
15:19	twbray	,(. #"/" split "a/b/c")
15:19	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1e3d80c>
15:20	defn	fliebel: cool im excited to see where you're at :)
15:20	twbray	,(prn (. #"/" split "a/b/c"))
15:20	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@f55759>
15:20	defn	(doc prn)
15:20	clojurebot	"([& more]); Same as pr followed by (newline). Observes flush-on-newline"
15:20	the-kenny	,(seq (. #"/" split "a/b/c"))
15:20	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
15:20	defn	(doc pr)
15:20	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"
15:21	defn	ah, cool
15:21	defn	twbray: ?
15:22	mtm_	hmm, leiningen is having trouble resolving a dependency of [org.clojure/clojure "1.1.0-rc1"]. Has 1.1.0-rc1 been added to clojars?
15:22	fogus	,(seq (. #"/" split "a/b/c"))
15:22	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
15:22	fogus	twbray: ^^
15:23	fliebel	is there any looping function that gives me the previous item?
15:23	hiredman	reduce
15:24	fliebel	hiredman: like that, but not ending up with one item, but rather using the previous item for computing the present.
15:24	fliebel	hiredman: like fibonacci…
15:25	mtm_	bah, looks like rc1 is not on any of leiningen's default repos. Anyone have any maven coordinates for rc1?
15:25	fliebel	hiredman: I think I'll use this: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/master/src/clojure/contrib/lazy_seqs.clj#L78
15:25	stuartsierra	mtm_: I don't think it's been pushed anywhere, but you can download the ZIP and run "ant ci-build"
15:26	mtm_	stuartsierra: I'll give it a shot
15:26	stuartsierra	That will install in your local maven repo.
15:27	mtm_	I guess with 1.1.0 final imminent it doesn't make sense to push an rc at this point
15:27	johnmn3	,(use 'clojure.contrib.seq-utils)
15:27	clojurebot	nil
15:27	johnmn3	,(partition-by #(= \/ %) (seq "/hi/by/my"))
15:27	clojurebot	((\/) (\h \i) (\/) (\b \y) (\/) (\m \y))
15:27	stuartsierra	,(map str (partition-by #(= \/ %) (seq "/hi/by/my")))
15:27	clojurebot	("(\\/)" "(\\h \\i)" "(\\/)" "(\\b \\y)" "(\\/)" "(\\m \\y)")
15:27	stuartsierra	,(map #(apply str %) (partition-by #(= \/ %) (seq "/hi/by/my")))
15:28	johnmn3	fliebel: I think for allows you to hold on to more than one value of a seq at a time.
15:29	stuartsierra	mtm_: You'll need to download maven-ant-tasks too.
15:30	johnmn3	stuartsierra: my repl says that works just fine.
15:30	mtm_	stuartsierra: thanks (hopefully I already have them)
15:30	fliebel	,(take 5 (iterate butlast [:a :b :c :d :e])) ; johnmn3: this should do, now only the joining part.
15:30	clojurebot	([:a :b :c :d :e] (:a :b :c :d) (:a :b :c) (:a :b) (:a))
15:31	johnmn3	ah-hkha! very nice
15:32	hiredman	http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/Lazy_Fibonacci
15:32	mtm_	is the latest rc on origin/master or origin/1.1.x ?
15:32	stuartsierra	1.1.x
15:32	mtm_	thx
15:32	mebaran151	does 1.1 have the local cleaning fix?
15:32	johnmn3	,(for [x (take 5 (iterate butlast "/ab/cd/ef"))] (apply str x))
15:32	clojurebot	("/ab/cd/ef" "/ab/cd/e" "/ab/cd/" "/ab/cd" "/ab/c")
15:33	mebaran151	where holding on to the head won't be the headache it currently is
15:33	johnmn3	still have to wordify it.
15:33	fliebel	johnmn3: I can handle it now, thanks for your help.
15:34	johnmn3	np
15:34	stuartsierra	mebaran151: no
15:37	defn	,(use 'clojure.contrib.shell-out)
15:37	clojurebot	nil
15:40	hiredman	http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24497/ <-- function of the past, eh?
15:40	johnmn3	,(System/getProperty "user.home")
15:40	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission user.home read)
15:40	mtm_	stuartsierra: spiffy, that worked
15:41	joshua-choi	Hey, is there an easy way to compose two predicates f and g into #(or (apply f %&) (apply g %&))?
15:42	defn	im trying to get the project root from a nested directory... "/my/project/root/is/not/here" -- I want "/my/project/root/"
15:42	fliebel	,(take 5 (map #(apply str (interleave % (repeat "/"))) (iterate butlast (seq (.split "abc/def/ghi/jkl/mno" "/"))))) ; johnmn3
15:42	clojurebot	("abc/def/ghi/jkl/mno/" "abc/def/ghi/jkl/" "abc/def/ghi/" "abc/def/" "abc/")
15:42	johnmn3	fliebel: there it is
15:43	defn	i was thinking something like:
15:43	johnmn3	gratifying, isn't it?
15:43	defn	,(reverse (drop 2 (reverse (re-split #"/" (sh "pwd")))))
15:43	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission <<ALL FILES>> execute)
15:43	fliebel	yea
15:43	lpetit	hello, could someone help me find where emacs lisp (check-parens) definition is in a standard emacs distribution ? (which file ? generally under which folder layout ?)
15:44	lpetit	it seems it's not part of paredit, probably of some other "mode" ...
15:44	johnmn3	i love it when it works.. yea, clojurebot is locked down.
15:44	fliebel	defn: I'm just fighting paths as well. How is root defined? the dir called root? the nth item form either sides?
15:45	_ato	defn: use (System/getProperty "user.dir") for pwd
15:45	defn	_ato: thanks
15:45	mebaran151	that's not pwd
15:45	defn	err so it isnt
15:46	_ato	mebaran151: ?
15:46	defn	err it is
15:46	mebaran151	user.home isn't
15:46	johnmn3	its the home dir
15:46	mebaran151	pwd is in Runtime I think
15:46	defn	user.dir for me works
15:46	_ato	user.dir, not user.home
15:46	defn	it's the same as pwd
15:46	defn	without the ugly \n
15:47	_ato	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/System.html#getProperties()
15:47	defn	_ato: how would you get two directories above "user.dir"?
15:47	mebaran151	I think though it gets something weird like Application Support in windows
15:47	defn	like /my/current/working/dir/is/this
15:47	defn	but i want /my/current/working/dir/
15:48	hiredman	(-> (File. (System/getProperty "user.dir")) .getParent .getParent)
15:48	mebaran151	oh
15:48	mebaran151	much easier way would be
15:48	hiredman	it may not be called getParent
15:48	defn	hiredman: awesome, thank you
15:48	hiredman	but look at the javadoc for File
15:48	defn	ill figure it out, thanks
15:48	mebaran151	(.getCanonicalPath (File. "../../"))
15:48	mebaran151	,(.getCanonicalPath (File. "../../"))
15:48	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: File
15:49	_ato	,(.getCanonicalPath (java.io.File. "../../"))
15:49	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.util.PropertyPermission user.dir read)
15:49	_ato	heh
15:49	mebaran151	yeah user.dir maps someplace strange
15:50	_ato	if it does then "." in java.io.File is also going to map someplace strange ;-)
15:50	mebaran151	ah, I think I lied
15:50	_ato	cause File uses user.dir as the above access exception shows
15:51	mebaran151	I would have thought it the other way around, but so is the ways of Java
15:52	mebaran151	I thought it mapped to the like where the jar actually was
15:52	robwolfe	lpetit: C-h f check-parens: check-parens is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `lisp.el'.
15:54	lpetit	robwolfe: thanks very much. I'm beginning a port of paredit.el to clojure, but I'm a noob with emacs so your help is very much appreciated (I prefer spend my little spare time hacking on paredit.clj than on enhancing my emacs skills :-) )
15:56	defn	there we go
15:56	defn	,(.. (File. (System/getProperty "user.dir")) getParentFile getParentFile)
15:56	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: File
15:57	hiredman	(-> "user.dir" System/getProperty File. .getParentFile .getParentFile)
15:58	fliebel	defn: shouldn't that be java.io.File.?
15:58	_ato	,(-> "/home/defn/src/myproject/src/myproject" java.io.File. .getParentFile .getParentFile)
15:58	clojurebot	#<File /home/defn/src/myproject>
15:59	defn	_ato: that's nicer, thanks
15:59	mebaran151	then arrow macro has made my life much easier
15:59	mebaran151	some things are so much clearer with it
15:59	defn	it's cheating!
15:59	defn	;)
16:00	hiredman	~clojure
16:00	clojurebot	clojure is the best way to learn java
16:01	somnium	hiredman: how did you end up getting auto-complete to start on all .clj files?
16:02	hiredman	ah
16:02	somnium	hiredman: I even use it at the repl now
16:02	hiredman	I don't have my .emacs.el on hand
16:02	somnium	ok, maybe later
16:03	somnium	btw, did you get rainbow parens working?
16:03	hiredman	and I don't know much emacs, but I think ac is a major mode? so you can't just add it to the hooks
16:03	hiredman	somnium: nope :/
16:03	somnium	hiredman: highlight-parens.el, its on elpa!
16:03	hiredman	there is a var called, maybe ac-modes? and you make it a list of modes you want ac to work with
16:03	somnium	hiredman: you can customize the faces for each level
16:04	somnium	hiredman: nice, thanks
16:04	hiredman	yeah, I have hlp, but I haven't looked at customizing
16:11	somnium	http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2urqmgl&s=6
16:13	hiredman	ooo
16:13	somnium	customize-group -> highlight-parentheses
16:14	somnium	:)
16:15	hiredman	the weird part is I don't have a dog
16:15	the-kenny	I want a "my other car is a cdr" sticker
16:15	lpetit	ok maybe I'm a little bit tired tonight. Is (cadr x) equivalent to (rest (first x)) in clojure, or the exact inverse ?
16:15	somnium	a t-shirt with a minified clojure.core would be cool
16:16	somnium	like _why's camping
16:17	chouser	((fn [{k :k (-> (or 10) v) :v}] (print k v)) {:k 1})
16:17	pdk	iirc clojure ditches car/cdr etc
16:18	robwolfe	lpetit: (first (rest x))
16:18	robwolfe	;)
16:18	hiredman	pdk: he is porting some code
16:18	lpetit	robwolfe: so I was reading it in the wrong sense ... it composes as it reads a -> first, d -> rest => (first (rest x)), ok thanks !
16:19	chouser	alexyk, but he's gone
16:19	robwolfe	exactly: cdr = rest
16:20	chouser	(doc fnext)
16:20	clojurebot	"([x]); Same as (first (next x))"
16:20	lpetit	chouser: even better, thx
16:20	LauJensen	Is the funding graph on /funders out-dated, or did the funding stop at about 60% ?
16:20	lpetit	(doc nnext)
16:20	clojurebot	"([x]); Same as (next (next x))"
16:20	lpetit	cool
16:20	triyo	I have functions that all need to return a result in json form. What the most idiomatic way to reuse this common pattern so that results of all my functions are wrapped in json-str?
16:21	hiredman	triyo: write a macro
16:21	stuartsierra	Or just wrap all your functions in json-str.
16:21	lpetit	chouser: or should it be frest , rrest now ?
16:21	lpetit	(doc frest)
16:21	clojurebot	Pardon?
16:21	lpetit	chouser: or nrest :-)
16:22	fliebel	Another I-should-know-that question: How can I test if a vector contains a value?
16:22	triyo	hiredman: macro is what I had in mind thx
16:22	chouser	next is closer to cdr than rest is
16:23	chouser	,(rest '(1))
16:23	clojurebot	()
16:23	triyo	stuartsierra: thats how I have it right now. Its just that I saw that I could abstract the content type away from the actual functions that deal with logic
16:23	lpetit	,(next '(1))
16:23	clojurebot	nil
16:23	lpetit	ok
16:24	chouser	fliebel: if you have a container that you're mostly using to test to see if things are in it, consider using a set instead of a vector.
16:24	chouser	fliebel: otherwise you have to use an O(n) scan like 'some' or '.contains'
16:25	fliebel	chouser: It's returned by Java: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/io/File.html#listFiles()
16:25	lpetit	robwolfe: is emacs lisp a lisp-1 or a lisp-2 ?
16:25	stuartsierra	lisp-1
16:25	fliebel	chouser: It's a File[], should I just call set on that?
16:26	the-kenny	,(set (make-array Object [(Object.)]))
16:26	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Character
16:26	the-kenny	Character? huh?
16:26	chouser	fliebel: 'some' is probably what you want.
16:27	lpetit	stuartsierra: oh. so I don't understand this code from paredit.el :
16:27	the-kenny	,(doc make-array)
16:27	clojurebot	"([type len] [type dim & more-dims]); Creates and returns an array of instances of the specified class of the specified dimension(s). Note that a class object is required. Class objects can be obtained by using their imported or fully-qualified name. Class objects for the primitive types can be obtained using, e.g., Integer/TYPE."
16:27	chouser	fliebel: you've the name of the think you're looking for?
16:27	the-kenny	,(set (make-array Object 1))
16:27	clojurebot	#{nil}
16:27	hiredman	that is bizzare
16:28	fliebel	chouser: I'm looking for default.clj for now
16:28	lpetit	stuartsierra: http://paste.lisp.org/+1ZDE . could you explain what the put does ?
16:28	stuartsierra	lpetit: no, I'm only casually familiar with elisp
16:29	lpetit	,(make-array Object 1)
16:29	clojurebot	#<Object[] [Ljava.lang.Object;@1f88953>
16:29	the-kenny	,(set (make-array Object 10))
16:29	clojurebot	#{nil}
16:29	chouser	fliebel: (some #(= (.getName %) "default.clj") (.listFiles (java.io.File. ".")))
16:29	the-kenny	,(set (seq (make-array Object 10)))
16:29	clojurebot	#{nil}
16:29	chouser	that'll return true or nil
16:29	stuartsierra	lpetit: I'm guessing (put coll x n) places x in coll at position n
16:29	hiredman	man
16:29	hiredman	elisp is old
16:29	hiredman	put is for manipulating property lists
16:29	hiredman	http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemnet/use/info/elisp/elisp_8.html#SEC97
16:30	fliebel	chouser: thanks
16:30	lpetit	hiredman: oh, so it's somehow like placing a metadata on the symbol that's used for the macro ?
16:31	lpetit	hiredman: I think I now remember this from CL
16:31	hiredman	yeah
16:32	lpetit	seems weird now that I'm accustomed to clojure, but I understand, thx
16:34	hiredman	property lists where a big point of contention durring the common lisp standizing effort
16:34	hiredman	I forget exactly how and why
16:36	lpetit	oddly enough, I see the property lisp-indent-function set to 2 in the property list of the paredit-do-commands macro, and it's not used anywhere else in the paredit code ... some black magic beyond my powers is at use I guess ... :-(
16:36	hiredman	lpetit: possibly telling emacs how to indent the code
16:36	stuartsierra	yes
16:37	lpetit	hiredman: yes. I thought paredit code was maybe in isolation from the rest, but it's certainly more tightly integrated with emacs than I would like ... we'll see
16:38	hiredman	I don't think paredit bothers with indentation
16:40	johnmn3	I always wondered how a indentation tool would handle all situations, if it had full control over all indentations.
16:41	johnmn3	indedit
16:41	lpetit	it is said in the comments that it tries not to, though it does it sometimes "very locally"
16:42	lpetit	johnmn3: pprint already does a good job of that I think, albeit working on clojure data structures as code, not on text string as code (thus not preserving user comments, etc.)
16:42	johnmn3	I'd imagine a full on indentation tool would make things unwieldly, with fragments extending far to the right
16:42	johnmn3	hm
16:42	stuartsierra	johnmn3: "Vietnamization"
16:43	chouser	I wonder if comments and spacing could be tucked into metadata in a way that would allow exact reconstruction of the original sources.
16:44	johnmn3	couldn't the whole original code string be stored in metadata?
16:44	hiredman	chouser: where would the metadata go?
16:45	johnmn3	seems like a :source metadata string makes sense
16:45	chouser	I guess I'm thinking at read time so that editors could deal with the data structures at that level.
16:45	stuartsierra	"Vietnamization: The tendency of Lisp code to wander off to the right, then eventually back to the left, until it resembles the map of Vietnam."
16:45	johnmn3	stuartsierra: ah
16:45	stuartsierra	-YTools docs www.cs.yale.edu/homes/dvm/papers/ytdoc.pdf
16:46	lpetit	johnmn3: that's what pprint tries to do
16:46	johnmn3	I had a hunch it'd be along those lines.
16:46	chouser	hiredman: since many scalars don't support metadata, it'd have to go in an enclosing collection.
16:46	lpetit	chouser: allowing exact reconstruction would be great, and allow one to just rely on a unique reader ! :-)
16:47	johnmn3	mm.. but because (comment ..) is not evaled, even macro time tools can't store the string?
16:47	_ato	you would need a different reader
16:47	_ato	(comment ...) is jsut a macro so you can find that
16:47	chouser	yes, but it could be a backward-compatible reader
16:47	_ato	but what you can't find is the whitespace and reader-macro symbols like #_
16:47	stuartsierra	Even in Lisp, it's hard to draw a 1-to-1 correspondence between characters and code structures.
16:48	chouser	that is, this new reader would produce data that all existing tools (esp. the Compiler) could work with.
16:48	lpetit	#_ is a reader macro too ...
16:48	stuartsierra	It would be much more fun to have a real structural editor.
16:48	lpetit	_ato: sorry for the repetition
16:48	chouser	stuartsierra: this would enable that.
16:48	stuartsierra	IF it could be written.
16:48	chouser	allow a real structural editor to edit things like comments, #_foo, etc.
16:48	chouser	right.
16:49	chouser	it wouldn't be pretty.
16:49	stuartsierra	I think it would be much easier to write a structural editor from scratch than to try to recover structure from characters.
16:49	johnmn3	yea, I've always wanted work with a structural editor, without having to learn emacs or vi (though I suppose those aren't real structural editors...)
16:50	lpetit	chouser: the classical problem of structural editors ... certainly too rigid for writing source code incrementally ... I guess adding paredit to ccw will suffice to users just as it seems to suffice to emacs users (at least it will for a while :-) )
16:50	stuartsierra	Even paredit is just scanning for matching delimiters.
16:51	stuartsierra	I took a stab at a structural Lisp editor in Javascript, found it very hard to break away from the code-as-text habit.
16:51	chouser	stuartsierra: you still need a way to handle comments, don't you?
16:51	_ato	probably simplifying the model to would help implementation: don't allow custom indentation, don't allow arbitrary spaces between list element (just comma or no-comma), don't allow trailing whitespace. Then it becomes basically a question of where you put line breaks. But perhaps that's simplifying too far ?
16:51	hiredman	chouser: if only we had a reader written in clojure
16:52	stuartsierra	chouser: I never got that far.
16:53	johnmn3	heh
16:53	chouser	maybe docstrings are sufficient
16:53	hiredman	my gui repl thing just counts the parens and does (zero? (mod x 2))
16:55	johnmn3	I wounder what the default would be? for any given function that takes three arguments, do you put the first argument on the same line and the next two on the following lines? and what if the first argument is a function which takes three arguments? Now you have it's first argument on the same first line... and so forth until you have 50 arguments and parens on one line? where do you draw the line?
16:55	lpetit	http://www.osenkov.com/diplom/contents/1/5/
16:55	johnmn3	hiredman: yea, just a bit cleaner than my 70 some line parens counter.. with 5 closed over atoms :)
16:55	lpetit	~gui repl
16:55	clojurebot	the repl is holding onto the head of sequences when printing them.
16:56	lpetit	hiredman: where's your gui repl ?
16:56	_ato	it depends a lot on the function and the context. "if" you often want to split into 3 lines, but occasioanlly it reads better as 1-liner (if foo? 2 5)
16:56	_ato	a structural editor doesn't have to make that sort of decision for you though, let the programmer deicde
16:56	_ato	it'd annoy me to no end if it did ;-)
16:56	hiredman	johnmn3: :P
16:57	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/images/Screenshot-Clojure.png http://gist.github.com/261648
16:57	hiredman	_ato: you get all kinds of heuristics
16:58	lpetit	_ato: the indenter I intend to add to ccw will just correctly reindent the start of the lines. And it will do so in a totally predictable manner : 2 spaces for each argument that's not on the first line when parens, 1 space for every element of literal vectors, sets or maps (at least at first)
16:58	fliebel	defn: I'm done! http://github.com/pepijndevos/utterson/blob/master/test/template_test/template_test.clj calling template invokes the last function in the appropriate template file, supplying the used page, for body, title, etc. and the other pages for menus, blog pages, etc.
16:58	hiredman	based on the number and "size" of earch argument
17:00	lpetit	hiredman: thanks for the screenshot. Interesting stuff !
17:01	johnmn3	hiredman: I messed with it for a minuted.. couldn't get the background to go white! .setBackground on the JPanel and the JScrollPane was no help.
17:01	johnmn3	*minute
17:02	chouser	swing is pure joy
17:02	hiredman	johnmn3: because of how stuff is rendered it can be difficult to figure out where to type, so I'm leaning towards accenting the different more instead of toning it down
17:02	hiredman	chouser: :P
17:03	fliebel	Are functions relying on the file system considered functional? I guess not, but calling them multiple times with the same input on the same file should give the same output, right?
17:04	johnmn3	yea.. could try to set up mouse listeners for the whole window and have them redirect focus on the input box
17:04	hiredman	johnmn3: good idea
17:04	johnmn3	you don't want the mouse anywhere else, anyway.. at least, I can't think of a good usage of having them anywhere else.
17:05	hiredman	johnmn3: might want to go clicky
17:05	johnmn3	perhaps on a menubar, but every where else could redirect.
17:05	hiredman	click on a datastructure to get an exploded view
17:05	johnmn3	hmm?
17:05	johnmn3	ah
17:05	hiredman	file explorer in repl
17:07	johnmn3	well, I'd imagine the most intuitive thing then.. would be that where a not obviously clickable object/region within the repl is, have it listening and redirecting to the input box.
17:08	lpetit	fliebel: you said it yourself, "pre-requisites" that are not part of the function arguments: the current status of the file, for one. And also, you can get an I/O exception, so no, definitely not purely functional they are
17:08	johnmn3	like if a collapsed tree is presented, allowing the user to delve into the data structure.. but it is collapsed as one node, then only the small expand dot should be outside of the "redirect to input" listening region.
17:09	johnmn3	intuitively then, one would just click in the whitespace to begin writing again.
17:10	hiredman	you can just create some kind of JCompenent at the repl and call $ on it, and it will render
17:10	hiredman	so that is pretty cool
17:11	johnmn3	hiredman: does that many anything will render? like, even an embedded browser?
17:12	johnmn3	typing (show menubar) and a menu bar pops up within the repl would be cool.
17:12	hiredman	johnmn3: if it's a JComponent, there might be some focus issues and such
17:13	patrkris	can anyone tell me why (binding [inc (fn [n] (+ n 2))] (inc 1)) doesn't return 3?
17:13	hiredman	($ (JLabel. "Foo"))
17:13	johnmn3	i've also been toying with the idea of a contextual repl.. has anyone ever worked with cisco switches or routers?
17:13	hiredman	inc might inline
17:13	hiredman	(meta #'inc)
17:14	hiredman	,(meta #'inc)
17:14	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name inc, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 618, :arglists ([x]), :inline #<core$fn__4729 clojure.core$fn__4729@1724852>, :doc "Returns a number one greater than num."}
17:14	lpetit	,(binding [clojure.core/inc (fn [n] (+ n 2))] (inc 1))
17:14	clojurebot	2
17:14	hiredman	yeah, so the body of inc is inlined at compile time
17:14	patrkris	hiredman: aha... I guess there is nothing I can do then?
17:14	patrkris	I'm just using it as an illustration of binding
17:15	hiredman	,(alter-meta! #'inc dissoc :inline)
17:15	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name inc, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 618, :arglists ([x]), :doc "Returns a number one greater than num."}
17:15	hiredman	,(binding [clojure.core/inc (fn [n] (+ n 2))] (inc 1))
17:15	clojurebot	3
17:15	lpetit	,(binding [clojure.core/inc (fn [n] (+ n 2))] (inc 1))
17:15	clojurebot	3
17:16	patrkris	hiredman: much too complex for my illustrative example... I'll redesign it. Thanks for the help.
17:16	hiredman	+ is inline for the two arg case
17:16	hiredman	,(binding [+ *] (+ 2 3))
17:16	clojurebot	5
17:16	hiredman	,(binding [+ *] (+ 2 3 1))
17:16	clojurebot	6
17:17	hiredman	,(binding [+ *] (+ 2 3 2))
17:17	clojurebot	12
17:17	johnmn3	in a cisco switch, you type "conf t" (short for "configure terminal") to get into the configuration mode. which changes the prompt to: hostname(config)
17:17	johnmn3	then you type "int fa0/1" to get into Interface FastEthernet 0/1: hostname(if-config), etc
17:18	johnmn3	I thought having a repl to configure a program (or your repl) using a contextual interface would be pretty neet.
17:19	johnmn3	the great thing is that you can do a <tab> or an <?> in any given context to find out what available commands there are.. it's very easy to go into a switch you've never been in before and figure out your way around.
17:20	johnmn3	So I was wondering, would that kind of thing be possible with a namespace at the repl?
17:21	johnmn3	like, a repl.config namespace? where I could save configuration, load configuration, turn on and off properties
17:22	somnium	johnmn3: putting a user.clj on the classpath kind of works like that now
17:23	johnmn3	true
17:24	johnmn3	you could probably get by with a ,config {:background-color ..}
17:25	johnmn3	just thought it'd be neet, you could drop down into a context with a whole DSL for a certain job.
17:26	johnmn3	I guess DrScheme has something like that, with different levels of easiness (for noobs)
17:26	hiredman	I really need to namespace the code and do a proper repo, I got history working last night too
17:26	johnmn3	*neat
17:26	johnmn3	really?
17:26	johnmn3	nice 1
17:27	hiredman	yeah, there are some issues with enter
17:27	hiredman	I need to find a way to catch "enter" keypresses and selectively let them through
17:27	somnium	when you type (fn ...) at the repl does the runtime store a .class file in memory?
17:28	hiredman	yes
17:28	johnmn3	rendering issues? those boxes.. I have a dark GTK theme in ubuntu and it looks a little funny with the white boxes on dark dark brown.
17:28	somnium	is there a way to get a handle on those files?
17:29	hiredman	somnium: they aren't files
17:29	hiredman	they are bytecode in ram
17:29	johnmn3	serialization?
17:29	somnium	so if you serialized it, != .class file?
17:31	johnmn3	hiredman: ah, you mean stop the enter key from actually making a \newline in the textarea?
17:31	hiredman	yeah
17:31	hiredman	somnium: actually you might be able to recover the byte arrays
17:32	johnmn3	somnium: not in the java -cp my.class sense, I don't think.
17:32	somnium	would be nice to have (save-image!) or something like in smalltalk
17:33	johnmn3	I don't see why that wouldn't be possible.
17:34	johnmn3	in fact, I think a performance trick for faster start up is to pre-cache, or pre-.. pre-something which pretty much suspends the running code.
17:35	johnmn3	hiredman: if you set the text area only one row in length, pressing enter doesn't do anything.
17:35	johnmn3	you could then decide to add another row to the text area selectively, when you get an enter key press?
17:36	hiredman	I was thinking there was a method on ClassLoader that return the bytes for a class
17:36	johnmn3	iirc
17:36	hiredman	but there isn't
17:36	somnium	hiredman: wall-hack into c.l.Compiler maybe?
17:37	hiredman	Classes are serializable, but I am not sure if the serialized form can just be written to a class file
17:38	johnmn3	hiredman: how about setting the text area to only one row in length?
17:38	hiredman	"serializing java.lang.Class instance does not really write the content of the class file in to the stream. It only write a class descriptor. At the read end it will try to locate the class file locally and validate the class file with the information in the descriptor.
17:39	hiredman	johnmn3: I don't think that will effect the underlying issue
17:39	somnium	hmm, headius might have some input, doesn't appear to be around though
17:39	headius	input on what
17:40	somnium	headius: trying to serialize bytecode in the runtime to .class files
17:40	johnmn3	hiredman: I'll have to check again, but I think pressing enter on a one row TA doesn't do anything, which would allow you to catch the enter without the new line. Then selectively add rows.
17:42	pdk	how's the current state of clojure-eclipse
17:42	headius	somnium: once you've classloaded it you can't get at the bytecode anymore as far as I know
17:43	headius	is this for serializing a function or something?
17:44	somnium	yeah, like at irb typing: a = lambda {\|x\| x * x}, save-image!, restart irb and a is there
17:44	somnium	headius: conceivable?
17:45	headius	closures are hard, and I think all functions in clojure qualify as closures, right?
17:45	headius	the problem is not getting the code across as much as getting the surrounding state across
17:46	headius	the context in which it runs
17:46	headius	your best bet in both cases would be to reverse it to code and re-evaluate/compile it on the other side in a new appropriate context
17:46	headius	that's theoretically possible in JRuby but there's no API for it
17:46	somnium	hmm, maybe once we get metadata on fns
17:47	technomancy	serializing a single closure might actually be more difficult than serializing the whole state of the VM
17:47	somnium	headius: the env of blocks is accessible in ruby, right?
17:48	headius	technomancy: yes
17:48	headius	somnium: indirectly, yes
17:48	hiredman	clojurebot: fn minus
17:48	clojurebot	ant clean and rebuild contrib
17:48	headius	you can evaluate code against that context (use it as a binding) but you can't really poke it directly
17:49	headius	interesting fact: this is also why define_method is slower than real methods, because it has to maintain a closure environment for every call
17:49	headius	in either ruby or clojure cases, though, the code is the least of your problems
17:50	hiredman	http://paste.lisp.org/display/91148
17:50	technomancy	headius: is that the only reason define_method is slower? interesting.
17:51	hiredman	closed over locals are fields in the resulting fn class
17:51	headius	technomancy: that's the main reason
17:51	somnium	headius: does it make a new class for every new method?
17:51	hiredman	so if you don't use any closed over locals it's not a problem
17:51	headius	a secondary reason is because it uses block arguments, which are using masgn, which is slower in most rubies
17:51	johnmn3	hiredman: I just tested it, setting (.setRows 1) on a JTextArea makes it not able to expand on <enter>
17:51	headius	somnium: impl detail
17:51	somnium	ok
17:51	headius	in JRuby everything interprets for a while, but once they jit there's a class per body of code in memory
17:52	headius	because that's the granularity on which we jit
17:52	hiredman	johnmn3: the expansion is not the problem
17:52	hiredman	I like the expansion
17:52	johnmn3	what's the problem?
17:53	johnmn3	the problem is that _sometimes_ you don't want it to expand, right?
17:56	hiredman	,(let [x 1 y (fn [] x)] (wall-hack-field (class y) :x Object))
17:56	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.reflect.ReflectPermission suppressAccessChecks)
17:57	lpetit	pdk: usable. But I'm biased, I'm for a great part the author :-)
17:58	somnium	,(doc wall-hack-field)
17:58	clojurebot	"([class-name field-name obj]); Access to private or protected field."
17:58	hiredman	from java-utils
18:02	somnium	I get: Can not set java.lang.Object field user$eval__3708$y__3710.x to java.lang.Class
18:07	defn	what's an easy way to strip the first line of a block of text?
18:07	defn	1234\nasdf\n => asdf\n
18:08	defn	this reminds me of _why's what_method? -- it'd be cool to build one of those in clojure
18:08	headius	back
18:08	defn	(what-makes "abc" "ABC")
18:08	defn	something like that
18:08	defn	hiya headius
18:08	defn	what's an easy way to strip the first line of a block of text?
18:09	arohner_	defn: you can probably line-seq then rest
18:09	hiredman	,(let [x (fn [] 1)] (-> x class .getFields first (.get x)))
18:09	clojurebot	1
18:09	hiredman	,(let [y 1 x (fn [] y)] (-> x class .getFields first (.get x)))
18:09	clojurebot	nil
18:10	somnium	,(apply str (drop-while #(not (= \newline %)) "foo bar\n baz"))
18:10	clojurebot	"\n baz"
18:11	defn	hm, specifically i have the output from (print-doc form)
18:12	defn	im using with-out-writer to print the output of print-doc form
18:12	somnium	,(alias 's2 'clojure.contrib.str-utils2)
18:12	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException: Expecting Symbol + Namespace
18:15	somnium	,(require '(clojure.contrib [str-utils2 :as s2]))
18:15	clojurebot	nil
18:17	somnium	,(s2/replace "foo bar baz\nbar konk\boom" #"^.*[\n]{1}" "")
18:17	clojurebot	"bar konk\boom"
18:18	somnium	,(rest (s2/split "foo bar baz\nbar konk\nboom" #"\n"))
18:18	clojurebot	("bar konk" "boom")
18:19	somnium	^^ maybe less ugly?
18:19	johnmn3	hiredman: so why were you wanting to intercept the enter key?
18:22	defn	how can i intercept (print-doc #'and) before it gets handled by with-out-writer?
18:24	somnium	,(source print-doc)
18:24	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
18:24	somnium	,(use 'clojure.contrib.repl-utils)
18:24	clojurebot	java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
18:25	somnium	defn: well, if you check the source to print-doc it just gets the meta data off the var
18:25	_mst	emacs rainbow paren hideousness if anyone wants to try it: http://dishevelled.net/elisp/rainbow-parens.el. I don't actually want to use this--just wanted to see if it was possible :P
18:25	defn	somnium: yeah, that actually is fantastic
18:26	defn	thank you :)
18:26	defn	what is ^v?
18:28	mitchellh	defn: "^" is a reader macro for metadata, but its deprecated in 1.1.0
18:28	mitchellh	defn: It does the same thing as the "meta" function
18:28	defn	mitchellh: what is it replaced by?
18:29	defn	ah
18:29	mitchellh	defn: It was always shorthand for "meta"
18:29	mitchellh	yep
18:29	defn	so now it will always be (meta v)
18:29	defn	instead of ^v?
18:29	mitchellh	Yep
18:30	mitchellh	I'm not sure why, I'm fairly new to clojure, perhaps readability? I'm unsure
18:30	mitchellh	I just read the messages the 1.1 RC1 is giving me :)
18:30	hiredman	rich wants to use ^ for type hinting
18:30	defn	:)
18:30	mitchellh	hiredman: thanks!
18:32	mitchellh	I have a question about "leiningen" if anyone is savvy: I'm trying to write a lib which uses HtmlUnit but HtmlUnit 2.6 isn't in maven central so "lein deps" doesn't work with it. What other options do I have to specify it as a dependency?
18:32	defn	,(str "" (ns-name (:ns (meta #'and)) "")
18:32	clojurebot	EOF while reading
18:32	defn	,(str "" (ns-name (:ns (meta #'and))) "")
18:32	clojurebot	"clojure.core"
18:32	neotyk	hiredman: I'm trying to run clojurebot and have some issues getting it to run, can you help?
18:33	neotyk	hiredman: or do you have some instructions on how to run it
18:34	hiredman	now is not a good time
18:34	hiredman	clojurebot () { rlwrap java -server -Djava.security.manager -cp $CLASSPATH:./clojurebot/ clojure.main -i clojurebot/hiredman/clojurebot.clj -r
18:34	hiredman	}
18:35	hiredman	that's how I start it
18:37	neotyk	hiredman: what version of clojureql bot depends on? one I got from http://www.gitorious.org/clojureql/ is using different name space
18:40	neotyk	hiredman: what is in $CLASSPATH ?
18:45	defn	,(re-gsub #"\n" "" "hello world\n testing\n")
18:45	clojurebot	"hello world testing"
18:47	neotyk	hiredman: thanks anyway, will let you know if I manage to run it
18:49	defn	what is pr-on in (source pr)?
18:49	defn	,(source pr)
18:49	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
18:52	defn	the source for pr shows: (defn pr ([] nil) ([x] (pr-on x out))...)
18:52	defn	but i can't find pr-on anywhere
18:53	q1	hi
18:56	q1	any ideas on how to build a list of all defs defined in a particular library? (using clojure.contrib.repl-utils)
18:56	defn	q1: (vals (ns-publics 'clojure.core))
18:56	defn	that gets you closer
18:57	q1	yup looks like just a parsing problem now
18:57	defn	q1: whatcha building if i may ask?
18:57	q1	slickedit module for clojure
18:58	q1	i'd like to color code a list of common defs for example
18:58	defn	ah, neat
18:59	somnium	q1: I think you mean vars (not to be that guy, just because symbols/vars can lead to confusion)
19:05	q1	somnium: yes guess im interested in public vars bound to functions in commonly used libs
19:05	q1	this does the trick: (keys (ns-publics 'clojure.core))
19:07	defn	q1: yeah, i used keys at first
19:07	defn	but then switched to vals
19:07	defn	since you'll probably be inspecting the #' versions
19:08	ubii	starting to dig into clojure and am looking for recommendations on what the best clojure development platform is for linux
19:08	the-kenny	ubii: Emacs + Slime
19:08	defn	ubii: it's painful at first, but you will learn to love it
19:09	defn	i learned emacs while i started learning clojure
19:09	defn	ubii: basically you need to get ELPA, then M-x package-install clojure-mode, swank-clojure, slime-repl, and slime
19:09	defn	and you're off to the races
19:11	ubii	that is what I am currently using, but being a vi guy for ever and a day, emacs takes a bit to get use to
19:11	the-kenny	It takes some time, but it's the best lisp editor out there.
19:12	defn	ubii: yeah, it takes time, you can get vimclojure setup and all, but i had nothing but trouble with it, you will learn some of the SLIME tricks and you'll be hacking like a pro in no time
19:12	the-kenny	(paredit is a must-have)
19:12	somnium	+ emacs 23 even looks good by default now
19:12	defn	when i found M-. -- that was awesome
19:12	defn	yeah, with xft
19:12	somnium	I love the adjust opacity feature
19:12	defn	paredit-mode quick guide: M-s, M-r, C-)
19:12	ubii	agreed, v23 looks way better than v22
19:14	kwertii	What's the most efficient and idiomatic way to make a per-thread spinner (i.e. a function that returns true or nil in strictly alternating sequence each call) in Clojure? a var? a closure?
19:15	ubii	I currently am running v23 with clojure-mode, slime, swank-clojure and have paredit installed
19:15	kylesmith	,(take 4 (iterate not true))
19:15	clojurebot	(true false true false)
19:15	ubii	just trying to get use to emacs and was wondering if there were any other comparable options that had less of a learning curve
19:16	kwertii	kylesmith: I don't know in advance how many times it will be called
19:16	ubii	but I agree emacs is the way to go, so I guess I just need man up and dig in
19:16	somnium	ubii: if you're not set in your emacs ways yet I would encourage trying ergoemacs too, the standard key-bindings are way saner than emacs defaults (pretty close to vi actually)
19:16	kylesmith	kwertii: so just omit the call to take. iterate returns an infinite seq
19:19	ubii	hmm, looking at http://ergoemacs.org, it appears that it is windows only
19:19	defn	ubii: one tip -- it's like quitting smoking, you need to change your $EDITOR, alias vim to emacs, etc.
19:19	somnium	ubii: no, its an elisp package
19:19	kwertii	kylesmith: interesting, so something like (let [spinner (iterate not true)] .... (foo data (fnext spinner))) ?
19:19	defn	what the heck is ergoemacs
19:20	somnium	ubii: theres a zip file under the windows download
19:22	somnium	http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/wiki/DeveloperIntro
19:23	ubii	defn: yeah, I thought about just trying to go cold turkey and only using emacs, but I use vi so much for work that I have simply not been able to make the switch yet
19:24	somnium	ubii: viper mode?
19:24	defn	can (def)'s have a docstring?
19:24	defn	(def abc "docstring")
19:25	somnium	,(doc defvar)
19:25	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.def/defvar;[[name] [name init] [name init doc]]; Defines a var with an optional intializer and doc string"
19:25	ubii	I use to do all of my development in vi, now I have wussed out as I sometimes use gedit or textmate when I am feeling lazy
19:25	defn	thanks somnium
19:25	ubii	emacs is way more powerful than vi, so I just need to start forcing myself to use it more
19:26	defn	ubii: yeah, like i said, just remove your other editors, make them map to emacs, it will be painful for about a week, and then you will start to enjoy yourself
19:26	defn	it's a hoot once you get over the first few bumps
19:27	ubii	as part of my original 12-step plan on migrating to emacs, I am now using emacs as my irc client instead of xchat :)
19:28	defn	hehe, use C-h a
19:28	ubii	defn: yeah, I just need to get my balls out of my momma's purse and start using emacs exclusively
19:29	ubii	that would be very helpful
19:29	ubii	I need Emacs for the impatient :)
19:29	somnium	http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs.html << is pretty good
19:29	ubii	thx, I will check it out
19:30	defn	I don't have a lot of information, not a book, just like 20 things that i slowly learned that i wish i would have knew right away
19:30	defn	there's just so damn much...
19:31	the-kenny	C-h t ftw :)
19:32	ubii	wow, just caught myself doing "vi .emacs" to check a config setting
19:32	kwertii	why does this not work? (let [spinner (iterate not true)] (list (fnext spinner) (fnext spinner))) ;; (false false)
19:32	ubii	is that bad or what? :)
19:33	somnium	http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html
19:33	the-kenny	ubii: put alias vi=emacs in your .bashrc or so
19:33	somnium	the-kenny: :-)
19:33	ubii	yep, that would resolve the problem, wouldn't it
19:35	kylesmith	kwertii: you're not re-binding spinner.
19:36	kylesmith	so you can't just bash it in place
19:36	kwertii	is there anything like pop that works on sequences?
19:37	pdk	what is the deal with this
19:37	pdk	after installing counterclockwise eclipse flips and gives a null pointer exception trying to load a clj file
19:39	somnium	,(butlast (range 5))
19:39	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3)
19:39	ubii	hmm, had forgotten about the emacs screencast out on peepcode
19:40	ubii	sweet, there is jQuery screencast as well, guess I know what I will be watching tonight :)
19:41	kylesmith	kwertii: (let [a (atom true)] (defn spinner [] (swap! a not)))
19:41	ubii	pizza is here, so I need bail, thx for everyones recommendations
19:41	defn	array element type mismatch... any ideas?
19:41	kwertii	kylesmith: interesting, thanks
19:41	kylesmith	kwertii: but you should really learn how to work with immutable data
19:41	kwertii	kylesmith: I'm working on that :)
19:43	kwertii	clojure.org/lazy says "A seq is like a logical cursor". doesn't that imply that you can iterate through an infinite sequence without using atoms? I'm not seeing anything in the API that does that.
19:43	defn	(defn apply-markdown [path] (doseq [f (file-seq (java.io.File. path))] (sh "/usr/local/bin/markdown" f "-f" (str f ".html") "-x codehilite")))
19:43	defn	i get an array element type mismatch
19:45	ubii	sweet, the Emacs screencast is now part of my O'reilly Safari subscription, so I don't have to buy it
19:45	defn	nevermind, needed to coerce f to (str f)
19:45	ubii	so is the Functional Programming with Clojure screencast, which I already watched
19:46	ubii	finally, this damn scription is starting to pay off :)
19:46	ubii	later all
19:53	defn	oh my god that is slow
19:54	defn	running that above apply-markdown function on 1007 files :(
19:55	q1	question. can anyone explain the NIL next of the lines that REPL is printing: (map #(println %) (keys (ns-publics 'clojure.core)))
19:56	arohner	q1: println returns nil
19:56	q1	ah ok lol
19:56	q1	thought i was going nuts
19:57	arohner	also, map creates a new seq of the return values of the function
19:57	arohner	if you want to use side effects, doseq is a better option
19:57	q1	filter seems most applicable here
19:57	arohner	map is lazy, because it's assumed that 'f' is pure
19:57	q1	just wanted a printout
19:58	q1	you are right about doseq. thanks!
20:03	pdk	ok stupid q, how do you go about uninstalling eclipse plugins
20:08	kylesmith	kwertii: if you have a loop/recur algorithm (for example), just pass (next spinner) on each recur.
20:09	pdk	q1 everything in clojure returns something or another even if it's nil
20:16	q1	pdk: yeah. just not used to the REPL output. thanks.
20:28	polypus	you guys have an opinion on jquery vs dojo?
20:30	polypus	i'm trying to pick a js lib to front a clojure app
20:31	pdk	guess i should just reinstall eclipse since counterclockwise left its mark
20:43	somnium	polypus: dojo is my preference for writing new javascript, but jquery usually wins for instant functionality.
20:58	johnmn3	and now I embark on a week long mission home from afghanistan.
20:59	johnmn3	hopefully, I'll be able to sign in to irc from Bagram, like did a year ago. later
21:39	pdk	so is counterclockwise for eclipse supposed to not work
21:42	polypus	somnium: ty, i'm going to go with jquery. knock on wood
23:07	technomancy	is the azul JVM free software?
23:09	danlarkin	ha!
23:11	technomancy	well they sell hardware, don't they?
23:12	danlarkin	and they want you to want their jvm
23:14	danlarkin	in this inspired by cliff click's latest post? pretty interesting read
23:14	technomancy	so they found some loophole in Sun's application of the JVM
23:14	technomancy	well I was about to be interested in it until I realized it was about stuff I'll never use.
23:15	technomancy	*loophole in Sun's application of the GPL, that is
23:15	pdk	what's the gist of it
23:16	danlarkin	there's this mention on wikipedia, don't know if it's relevant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azul_Systems#Legal_issues
23:16	technomancy	danlarkin: nah; that's patent fluff
23:17	technomancy	they've been around since before the relicensing of the codebase though, so they must have some grandfather clause
23:17	danlarkin	it'd be fun to work on azul boxes instead of ec2, that's for sure :-D
23:18	technomancy	boxes? you need more than one? =)
23:20	pdk	he's going to construct skynet you see
23:23	technomancy	hah; a Lua implementation on the JVM called Kahlua: http://code.google.com/p/kahlua/
23:23	technomancy	well played, Brazil.
23:54	defn	nevermind! M-x hs-minor-mode, C-c @ C-h
23:55	technomancy	lousy binding though
23:55	defn	yeah, terrible
23:55	defn	what do you bind to tech?
23:55	defn	or do you not use it?
23:55	technomancy	I just keep my files short
23:56	technomancy	unfortunately now that I switched to a widescreen I'm keeping them shorter than before
23:56	defn	yeah good call -- im really new to this whole structuring in nested directories and all that
23:56	technomancy	stupid aspect ratio
23:56	defn	so ive been building these massive source files
23:56	defn	and then splitting it up
23:56	technomancy	every time I open my old laptop I just get so jealous of the 4x3 display
23:56	defn	:)
23:57	technomancy	then I think to myself, "I should turn the brightness up--oh wait; it is all the way up. stupid non-LED display." =(
23:57	defn	yeah man, i know the feeling -- i have 4 displays at work with my emmaculate xmonad setup
23:57	defn	i get home and i have one big display, very different feeling
23:57	somnium	defn: do you run xmonad on top of gnome?
23:57	defn	yes
23:58	technomancy	I should just go get one of those portrait-oriented displays
23:58	technomancy	unfortunately they don't make laptops like that
23:58	defn	that's an interesting idea...
23:59	defn	portrait laptop display, the keyboard rotates once you open the laptop
23:59	technomancy	the Alto was portrait-oriented
23:59	technomancy	ahead of its time
23:59	defn	technomancy: could i have your opinion for a moment on some code ive been fiddling with?