#clojure – 2009-09-07

2009-09-07

03:50	joha1	I cannot find any example of connecting clojure.contrib.sql to an Oracle DB. Can anyone help?
03:51	joha1	Is it possible/tested at all?
04:00	joha1	nm, it works now
04:07	joha1	added the Oracle DB info in http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/JDBC_Examples#Connection_Examples, in case someone else has a similar problem in the future
04:37	joha1	From a DB I get strings like "(aaa bbb ccc)" which I want to convert to list/vectors or symbols, in this case (aaa bbb ccc) or similar. I tried variations of eval and apply but no luck. Any suggestions?
04:39	Chousuke	use read-string first
04:39	Chousuke	,(doc read-string)
04:39	clojurebot	"([s]); Reads one object from the string s"
04:39	joha1	ah, thanks
04:39	Chousuke	beware of #=() though
04:40	Chousuke	,'#=(println "foo") ; read-time evaluation
04:40	clojurebot	foo
04:40	joha1	ok, will keep it in mind. Should be enough for my needs anyway, so thanks again
04:50	jdz	or bind read-eval to false
04:51	jdz	,(binding [read-eval false] (read-string "#=(println foo)"))
04:51	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.
05:12	LauJensen	Gents, can I have some thoughts? http://bestinclass.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/java-vs-clojure-lets-talk-ceremony/
05:22	liwp	LauJensen: I just started reading, but just a quick comment: I don't think you should assert that "most functionality for the least amount of code" is always good. I think you mean that you don't want boiler plate code if you can avoid that, but that's not the same thing. E.g. J will give you very succint code, but no one will be able to read it after it's been written. Also, Haskell will give you very succint code,
05:22	liwp	but it takes a longer time to write that code.
05:23	LauJensen	Ok I see your point
05:23	LauJensen	It was meant in the context of ceremony
05:24	liwp	yeah, and it makes sense if you read it that way and I agree with the sentiment :-)
05:24	LauJensen	But if you can get to the bottom without strong grievances I'll post it on DZone :)
05:25	liwp	Ok, I'll get back to you when I'm done with it (might be a while, I'm at work)
05:25	LauJensen	Fair enough - Dont get in any trouble on my account :)
05:26	jdz	"since is a functional language"
05:26	LauJensen	thx
05:26	LauJensen	Very succint text
05:26	jdz	and the sentence should end with "in the core" i think
05:27	LauJensen	k
05:27	jdz	but i'm not native english speaker
05:27	LauJensen	Me neither :)
05:27	jdz	"not wanting win" -> "not wanting to win"
05:28	LauJensen	good catch
05:28	jdz	i wouldn't call let a macro
05:28	jdz	maybe just form
05:28	LauJensen	A true, its a special form
05:29	jdz	"it's" :)
05:30	liwp	LauJensen: I think you'll end up getting a lot of hatemail from Java developers!-)
05:30	jdz	"if i wanted ... I needed" -> "if i wanted ... I would need", but not completely sure
05:30	LauJensen	I certainly hope so
05:30	liwp	LauJensen: but more seriously, I think you're example has some holes in it
05:30	jdz	"your"
05:30	LauJensen	liwp: Like what?
05:30	liwp	LauJensen: e.g. the import list can be reaplaced with "import java.util.*"
05:31	LauJensen	liwp but to a different effect
05:31	liwp	LauJensen: I agree with you, but this is what the Java devs are going to say
05:31	LauJensen	True - Maybe I should prepare my defences
05:32	liwp	LauJensen: also the iterator creation is unnecessary with the new for syntax: for (String s : list) { ... }
05:32	liwp	which reduces a whole bunch of lines from your example
05:32	LauJensen	liwp: Spell it out for me
05:32	liwp	~paste
05:32	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
05:32	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
05:33	liwp	LauJensen: urgh, you're code is an image rather than text so I can't copy paste it!
05:33	LauJensen	sec
05:33	lisppaste8	Lau pasted "for liwp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86700
05:33	LauJensen	You can annote that
05:34	liwp	LauJensen: ok, give me a minute
05:34	LauJensen	you got it
05:35	lisppaste8	liwp annotated #86700 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86700#1
05:37	LauJensen	If you were to completely mimic the first one, you'd be down from 28 to 22. Thanks alot for the input - I didnt know :)
05:37	miha	,(+ 1 2)
05:37	clojurebot	3
05:37	liwp	And the last thing is that you can probably use something like java.util.Arrays.asList() to create the original list from an array of literal Strings which will make your point about adding a new element to the list a bit moot
05:37	liwp	so that would take another ~5 lines away from the java example
05:39	liwp	LauJensen: so I do agree with you that Java forces a lot of ceremony on you, especially since everything must be in a class, but I think you should come up with a stronger example
05:40	LauJensen	liwp -I will dig into Java more in the coming weeks. Mainly what I was going for was something which had grounds for comparison in the approach itself - otherwise I could have stuck with my one-liner :)
05:41	lisppaste8	liwp annotated #86700 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86700#2
05:41	liwp	LauJensen: I think your java hatemail will include something like the last annotation
05:41	LauJensen	hehe, nice
05:42	liwp	that's 14 lines I think, so still longer than your clojure version
05:42	Chousuke	the java-like clojure code is not very idiomatic either I think. hmm.
05:42	LauJensen	17
05:43	liwp	but you can also fiddle with the formatting to make the Java shorter / clojure longer
05:43	liwp	LauJensen: Oh, one final thing is that your class name should be Capitalised
05:44	LauJensen	I think if I wanted to do a succint vs succint version, I would put your latest in the post liwp. But the point is not wether or not you can write succint java code, I think you can. Its on ceremony. And at the end of the day, you can do functional programming in QBasic if you want, but what does your language default to ? thats primarily the questions I want to raise
05:44	liwp	someone's going to point that out in your comments and call you a Java newby ;)
05:45	liwp	LauJensen: sure, and I agree with you, but I don't think you're going to convince a Java head of that with your current example
05:45	LauJensen	liwp: Dont ever get me wrong: I dont want converts :)
05:46	Chousuke	,(reduce (fn [acc item] (if (some (partial = item) acc) acc (conj acc item))) [] ["foo" "bar" "zonk" "foo"]) ; explicit loops are ugly
05:46	clojurebot	["foo" "bar" "zonk"]
05:46	jdz	comparing languages using small examples like that will inevitably turn into language flamewars
05:46	liwp	jdz: exactly
05:47	LauJensen	liwp: I'm extending the conclusion as we speak
05:47	Chousuke	reduce is something that's a basic functional tool so it's rather like the for loop special syntax in the java code :P
05:47	Chousuke	and you can't write a reduce in Java without even more ceremony.
05:48	LauJensen	Its updated, I think that'll discourage the first few haters
05:48	liwp	Chousuke: do you use partial and comp a lot? I love them in Haskell, but I don't like the look of them in Clojure at all. Plus the #() form is a good replacement for partial in most cases
05:48	Chousuke	I use #() most of the time I think
05:49	Chousuke	#(= item %) just looks a bit noisy
05:49	LauJensen	Chousuke: Your example is very nice for me, but for an uknowing crowd its perlishly nasty
05:49	Chousuke	LauJensen: the loop code is even worse though :P
05:49	liwp	heh, I'd prefer that, I think, to (partial = item)...
05:49	LauJensen	Its readable for people coming from imperative languages
05:50	Chousuke	LauJensen: but it looks noisy compared to the java loop :/
05:50	Chousuke	(because it's denser)
05:50	eevar2	LauJensen: why use a loop at all?
05:50	LauJensen	Hmm, yes... I'm reconsidering
05:50	LauJensen	Its not bad actually
05:51	Chousuke	include both, just to show that explicit loops are often not needed.
05:51	eevar2	the Java approach would be something like Set uniques = new HashSet( arrayListOfStrings );
05:51	liwp	eevar2: true!
05:51	Chousuke	eevar2: you mean like (vec (set arraylist))?
05:51	ol3	,(doc slurp)
05:51	clojurebot	"([f] [f enc]); Reads the file named by f using the encoding enc into a string and returns it."
05:51	liwp	like jdz said, these thing will inevitably end up in flame wars
05:52	LauJensen	Chousuke: I think I'll go with yours, I assume thats okay
05:52	Chousuke	sure.
05:53	eevar2	Chousuke: yup. writing convoluted code for simple stuff like this makes both languages look bad ;)
05:54	eevar2	s/convoluted/naive/
05:57	ol3	hello, clojure-bot supports an encoding for slurp my clojure did not. I have clojure 1.0, what is its default encoding?
05:57	jdz	depends on your JVM
05:57	jdz	and environment
05:58	jdz	but you can specify one with -Dfile.encoding when starting JVM
05:58	LauJensen	I updated the post. I think its good now :)
05:59	jdz	ol3: but relying on system supplied defaults will get you into trouble sooner or later, anyway
05:59	ol3	I want to specify the encoding at runtime, so i don't use slurp, right?
06:00	jdz	i guess so
06:00	jdz	i have written a utility function for myself
06:00	jdz	should be somewhere on lisppaste
06:01	jdz	others also have provided their versions
06:01	jdz	dunno why the encoding stuff is not in the core
06:02	ol3	maybe it will
06:02	ol3	,(doc slurp)
06:02	clojurebot	"([f] [f enc]); Reads the file named by f using the encoding enc into a string and returns it."
06:02	jdz	oh, see, you can specify the encoding :)
06:02	jdz	i still use my own version
06:02	jdz	http://paste.lisp.org/display/80970
06:03	jdz	because i want to read compressed files
06:04	ol3	but encoding is not in the 1.0 version
06:04	Chousuke	Why are you not using BufferedReader or something? :/
06:05	jdz	because my Java-fu is lacking maybe
06:05	Chousuke	(BufferedReader. (InputStreamReader. (SomeInputStream. ...)))
06:08	LauJensen	ok guys, its live: http://www.dzone.com/links/java_vs_clojure_lets_talk_ceremony.html
06:08	LauJensen	Thanks a lot everybody for taking the time
06:08	ol3	Chousuke: thanks, looks good
06:09	Chousuke	There might be more specialised readers than InputStreamReader though.
06:09	Chousuke	check the docs :)
06:10	jdz	ye, i use FileInputStream
06:11	jdz	but thanks for pointing this out
06:11	jdz	the buffering exercise was fun, anyway
06:11	Chousuke	LauJensen: your idiomatic clojure code is missing a [
06:12	Chousuke	LauJensen: (let [lst "foo" "bar" ...
06:12	jdz	i was just learning Clojure at that time
06:12	LauJensen	thanks for staying awake Chousuke
06:12	eevar2	LauJensen: why do you import java.util.List when you never use the interface?
06:12	LauJensen	eevar2: artifact, thanks for pointing it out
06:15	jdz	also, the indentation of clojure code is very un-ideomatic
06:15	jdz	and why is the code in images, anyway?
06:16	LauJensen	wordpress.com doesnt to very nice code highlighting
06:16	jdz	does it accept html?
06:16	LauJensen	yep
06:17	Chousuke	SVG images!
06:17	jdz	LauJensen: what editor are you using?
06:17	LauJensen	For?
06:17	jdz	making the code images
06:18	LauJensen	gnome-text
06:18	ol3	you code use the <pre> tag, highlighting is overrated
06:18	LauJensen	ol3 alright, I'll try that the next time
06:18	LauJensen	images arent optimal
06:19	ol3	if you really need highlighting, there is an htmlize package for emacs
06:19	ol3	http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Htmlize
06:20	LauJensen	Sweeet :)
06:21	lisppaste8	jdz pasted "ideomatic clojure code in emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86702
06:21	jdz	using htmlize :)
06:23	jdz	and the let error is even preserved :)
06:24	ol3	most of the time i do not use font-lock anymore...
06:25	jdz	pretty colors are essential for things published on the interwebs
06:30	ol3	really? IMHO people only think there is an advantage in highlighting, because it looks nice/cool, but where is the real benefit?
06:30	LauJensen	speed
06:30	ol3	speed?
06:31	LauJensen	yea, your eyes dont need to read everything, they bounce of the colors to the places you need to go, its grooooovy man :)
06:32	ol3	I think this is an illusion, are there tests about this?
06:32	LauJensen	Dont need tests, its evident
06:32	jdz	i'm pretty sure having colors helps with navigation
06:32	Chousuke	the colours help make the structure clearer to me.
06:33	Chousuke	processing colour takes less mental effort than processing the actual text
06:33	Chousuke	so if I can ignore parts of code based on its colour, I am more efficient :)
06:34	Chousuke	and on the other hand, I might focus better on parts with an "important" colour
06:34	hiredman	at the very least rainbow parens are a must
06:34	jdz	not
06:34	Chousuke	not to me
06:34	hiredman	:/
06:34	hiredman	they are great
06:34	Chousuke	I don't even look at parens much nowadays.
06:34	jdz	proper indentation is a must
06:35	Chousuke	I don't need to care which paren ends which expression because I know paredit takes care of that :)
06:35	ol3	nope, the defn/defun is not important, it's at the beginning of the line anyway
06:36	ol3	but nevermind, people are different
06:36	jdz	well, i'm more concerned with colorization of strings
06:37	Chousuke	the other thing is that colours are much more pleasant than just grey text
06:37	Chousuke	at least, when they have purpose.
06:37	_mst	the differences are interesting... I've always turned my syntax highlighting back to bold or not bold :)
07:49	ol3	is there a standard way to update a map in a map?
07:50	ol3	(dosync (alter map assoc :other-map (assoc (:other-map @map) :key :new-value)))
07:50	ol3
07:51	ol3	@r
08:00	cgrand	(doc assoc-in)
08:00	clojurebot	"([m [k & ks] v]); Associates a value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys and v is the new value and returns a new nested structure. If any levels do not exist, hash-maps will be created."
08:00	cgrand	(doc update-in)
08:00	clojurebot	"([m [k & ks] f & args]); 'Updates' a value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys and f is a function that will take the old value and any supplied args and return the new value, and returns a new nested structure. If any levels do not exist, hash-maps will be created."
08:01	cgrand	ol3: (dosync (alter map assoc-in [:other-map :key] :new-value))
08:04	ol3	cgrand: thank you
08:06	ol3	this is really cool!
08:07	ol3	,(assoc-in nil [:this :is :a :deep :structure] :value)
08:07	clojurebot	{:this {:is {:a {:deep {:structure :value}}}}}
08:08	cgrand	update-in and dissoc-in are cool too
08:09	ol3	(doc dissoc-in)
08:09	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.core/dissoc-in;[[m [k & ks as keys]]]; Dissociates an entry from a nested associative structure returning a new nested structure. keys is a sequence of keys. Any empty maps that result will not be present in the new structure."
08:11	ol3	(doc dissoc-in)
08:11	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.core/dissoc-in;[[m [k & ks as keys]]]; Dissociates an entry from a nested associative structure returning a new nested structure. keys is a sequence of keys. Any empty maps that result will not be present in the new structure."
08:11	ol3	works even if keys are string
08:13	Chousuke	works with vectors too
08:13	Chousuke	at least, IIRC.
08:14	Chousuke	,(update-in [2 [1 2 3]] [1 2] inc)
08:14	clojurebot	[2 [1 2 4]]
08:19	ol3	why are references funcallable?
08:20	ol3	just curious
08:21	cgrand	last time I asked, Rich told me to not rely on that -- it's undocumented
08:22	cgrand	I guess it may be some legacy from the time where refs and vars were the same thing
08:23	ol3	so always use the @, ok
08:57	hamza	(doto frame (..) (.pack) (...)), pack call causes classcastexception?
08:58	hiredman	lisppaste8: url
08:58	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
08:58	hiredman	↑
08:59	lisppaste8	hamza pasted "snake" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/86708
08:59	hamza	it's the example from programming clojure..
09:01	hiredman	what page?
09:01	jdz	the .pack call is commented out, though
09:02	hiredman	did you copy it out of the book, or have you tried from the source repo?
09:02	hamza	i copied from the book, i was testing if setSize would work thats why its commented out, with setSize it works but .pack causes exception
09:04	hiredman	ah
09:04	hiredman	you miscopied
09:05	hiredman	you are missing two * in game-panel
09:05	hiredman	hand copying a large chunk of code like can be troublesome
09:06	hamza	what am i missing?
09:06	hiredman	you are missing two calls to *
09:06	hiredman	the parens are there
09:07	hiredman	so you have two numbers there
09:07	hiredman	,(1 2)
09:07	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
09:07	emacsen	What's the proper way to overload a function name that's used in the core?
09:07	hiredman	^-
09:07	hiredman	,(doc refer-clojure)
09:07	clojurebot	"([& filters]); Same as (refer 'clojure.core <filters>)"
09:07	hiredman	,(doc refer)
09:07	clojurebot	"([ns-sym & filters]); refers to all public vars of ns, subject to filters. filters can include at most one each of: :exclude list-of-symbols :only list-of-symbols :rename map-of-fromsymbol-tosymbol For each public interned var in the namespace named by the symbol, adds a mapping from the name of the var to the var to the current namespace. Throws an exception if name is already mapped to something else in the current nam
09:08	emacsen	thx
09:08	hiredman	refer-clojure has a corresponding :refer-clojure for the ns for
09:08	hiredman	form
09:08	emacsen	"name" fits my problemset too well
09:09	Jomyoot	How to define a function that takes variable number of inputs [a b] and [a b c]
09:09	Jomyoot	I cannot (defn) twice
09:09	Jomyoot	it erases the first (defn)
09:09	emacsen	Jomyoot, read the section on multiple arity
09:09	Jomyoot	in Java, I would just define the function twice with different inputs
09:10	emacsen	Jomyoot, functions can take multiple forms
09:10	hiredman	Jomyoot: there are many ways
09:10	emacsen	Jomyoot: http://clojure.org/functional_programming
09:10	achim	for example (defn foo ([a b] ...) ([a b c] ...)), or (defn foo [a b & [c]] ...)
09:10	emacsen	read the section on multiple arity
09:11	Jomyoot	thanks
09:11	hiredman	,((fn ([a] a) ([a b] [a b])) 1)
09:11	clojurebot	1
09:11	hiredman	,((fn ([a] a) ([a b] [a b])) 1 2)
09:11	clojurebot	[1 2]
09:13	emacsen	hiredman, thx for your help
09:15	emacsen	and what's the current prefered pretty-printer?
09:16	hiredman	~scala (0 /: List(1,2,3))(_ + _)
09:16	clojurebot	Int = 6
09:17	jdz	emacsen: clojure.contrib/pprint
09:18	liwp	hiredman: huh?
09:18	liwp	is that a reduce?
09:18	hiredman	I don't know scala
09:18	liwp	ok then :)
09:18	liwp	~scala (0 /: List(1,2,3,4))(_ + _)
09:18	clojurebot	Int = 10
09:19	liwp	I guess so
09:19	emacsen	clojure.contrib.pprint.PrettyWriter [Thrown class java.lang.ClassNotFoundException]
09:19	liwp	~scala (1 /: List(1,2,3,4))(_ * _)
09:19	clojurebot	Int = 24
09:19	ol3	is the 'Programming Clojure' book good?
09:19	hiredman	you neeed to compile contrib properly
09:19	emacsen	hiredman, what do you mean by properly? :)
09:20	liwp	emacsen: with ant
09:20	hiredman	emacsen: run ant, and looking for a line with "Warning" in it, and follow the directions
09:20	emacsen	hiredman, ah, good point. I didn't compile clojure.contrib at all
09:20	emacsen	at least not the slime used one
09:20	jdz	emacsen: clojure.contrib.pprint/pprint i think the function is named
09:20	emacsen	thx
09:20	hiredman	well there is no clojure.contrib
09:21	Chouser	~scala ( for( i <- 1 to 100 ) yield i * i ).foldLeft(0) ( _ + _ )
09:21	clojurebot	Int = 338350
09:30	AWizzArd	The class http://java.sun.com/products/javamail/javadocs/javax/mail/Flags.html has a field "Flag" which is a static inner class. This class has static fields, for example "SEEN". How can I name Flags.Flag.SEEN in Clojure?
09:30	Chousuke	AWizzArd: Flags§Flag/SEEN
09:30	Chousuke	er
09:30	Chousuke	$*
09:30	hiredman	haha
09:31	AWizzArd	Chousuke: unfortunately not
09:31	AWizzArd	ah
09:32	AWizzArd	what works is javax.mail.Flags$Flag/SEEN
09:32	AWizzArd	but Flags$Flag/SEEN not, although I imported Flags
09:33	AWizzArd	I get at java.lang.Exception: No such namespace: Flags$Flag when I do Flags$Flag/SEEN
09:33	cgrand	AWizzArd: you need to import Flags$Flag
09:33	AWizzArd	oh nice :)
09:34	AWizzArd	yes, that works
09:34	AWizzArd	thx
09:47	ol3	is there a prog1 in clojure
09:49	hiredman	do
09:49	jdz	umm, not really
09:49	hiredman	ok
09:49	jdz	,(doc do)
09:49	clojurebot	I don't understand.
09:50	ol3	,(doc 'do)
09:50	hiredman	~progn
09:50	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
09:50	clojurebot	Excuse me?
09:50	hiredman	do is a special form
09:50	ol3	to be more specific, i need a queue , one thread enques values another dequeues values
09:50	jdz	ol3: well you can write a simple macro with a let + do
09:51	AWizzArd	you could try a clojure.lang.PersistentQueue
09:51	jdz	ol3: then prog1 is completely not the tool for you
09:51	hiredman	,(conj (clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/empty) 1)
09:51	clojurebot	java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: empty
09:51	hiredman	,(conj (clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY) 1)
09:51	clojurebot	(1)
09:52	hiredman	,(peek (conj (clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY) 1))
09:52	clojurebot	1
09:52	hiredman	,(pop (conj (clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY) 1))
09:52	clojurebot	()
09:52	hiredman	,(pop (conj (clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY) 1 2 3))
09:52	clojurebot	(2 3)
09:53	AWizzArd	like lists, but you conj to the end
09:53	jdz	,(conj (PersistentQueue/EMPTY) 1)
09:53	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: No such namespace: PersistentQueue
09:53	ol3	ah, this is exactly what i needed, thank you!
09:53	AWizzArd	right, it is undocumented and a little bit hidden :)
09:54	jdz	isn't clojure.lang used by default?
09:54	hiredman	nope
09:54	hiredman	,(import 'clojure.lang.PersistentQueue)
09:54	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentQueue
09:54	jdz	,(conj (PersistentQueue/EMPTY) 1)
09:54	clojurebot	(1)
09:54	jdz	hehe, until next reboot i guess :)
09:55	AWizzArd	you could (import 'clojure.lang.PersistentQueue) first
09:55	AWizzArd	oh, hiredman was faster :)
09:57	jdz	is it possible to blow up clojurebot by importing too many namespaces?
09:58	Jomyoot	How to convert [1 2 3] into Java Array {1, 2, 3}
09:58	AWizzArd	,(to-array [1 2 3])
09:58	clojurebot	#<Object[] [Ljava.lang.Object;@57e9bb>
09:59	hiredman	,(into-array [1 2 3])
09:59	clojurebot	#<Integer[] [Ljava.lang.Integer;@150ad83>
09:59	AWizzArd	another alternative
09:59	hiredman	,(into-array Integer/TYPE [1 2 3])
09:59	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@196a671>
09:59	AWizzArd	,(int-array 3 [1 2 3])
09:59	Jomyoot	what's difference?
09:59	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@419710>
09:59	AWizzArd	Jomyoot: performance
10:00	Jomyoot	i think i need int-array
10:00	hiredman	Jomyoot: the type of the array
10:00	hiredman	the first one is an array of Objects
10:00	hiredman	the second an array of Integers, the third ints
10:00	Jomyoot	,(int-array [1 2 3])
10:00	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@bc03b>
10:24	ambient	anyone tried Clojure on the CLR? is it usable?
10:32	Fossi	as in .NET?
10:33	Fossi	i thought that was discontinued until new-new is done
10:33	ambient	oh ok :)
10:33	arbscht	really, when?
10:33	Fossi	i thought reimplementing all the persistent datastructures is just a little too painful :)
10:34	arbscht	looks active to me http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-clr/
10:34	arbscht	don't use the one in contrib, that really is discontinued
10:35	dmiller2718	ClojureCLR is active. It is usable, but I wouldn't use it for production use yet.
10:35	rsynnott_	what's wrong with Clojure on the JVM, anyway? :)
10:35	dmiller2718	Needs more people banging on it.
10:35	Fossi	ah. cool then
10:36	arbscht	dmiller2718: any plans to support mono?
10:36	rsynnott_	seems like a hard project to get off the ground, given the limited CLR support on any platform other than Windows
10:36	Fossi	given that windows is still 90% of the market, maybe not so much
10:37	dmiller2718	No reason why it can't be on Mono eventually. It's based on DLR, and that runs on Mono. There is a still a reliance on one class in vjslib (BigDecimal) that needs to be gotten rid of.
10:38	rsynnott_	Fossi: rather less than 90% of the programmer market, though, and JVM works on 99.9% of the market
10:41	Fossi	well, deplying a java desktop app to windows is still a pain though
10:42	Fossi	although it is not so important anymore with the ubiquitious internet
10:52	AWizzArd	I have a big text file, which I currently load via read-lines. I would like to have Clojure compile that data into the .class file, so I don't have to deliver the text file. What is the idiom to do so?
10:53	liwp	AWizzArd: not exactly an answer to your question, but you could look into packaging the big text file into the jar that you distribute and then accessing it via the java resource methods
10:53	liwp	AWizzArd: i.e. the file would be 'hidden' from the user in the jar but still readable by the program
10:54	jdz	AWizzArd: or is it something like reading text file into Clojure (Java) data strutcures and then serializing them?
10:56	AWizzArd	It's text data which gets compiled into a regex
10:58	AWizzArd	what liwp suggested sounds doable, although it would be even nicer when during the load of the .class file all needed data is automtically loaded.
10:58	AWizzArd	In CL I would compile the regex and then dump an image for very fast load times.
11:00	AWizzArd	I already tried to make a single .clj file into which I put the long string. But it is too long and causes an exception :)
11:19	tomoj	AWizzArd: java.util.regex.Pattern implements Serializable
11:20	tomoj	oh but looks like they just serialize to the pattern string anyway
11:24	ol3	"520um_die_ecke_gedacht_03.swf"
11:24	ol3	(list "520um_die_ecke_gedacht_03.swf")
11:24	ol3	oops, sry
11:49	Jomyoot	how do I access an inner java class ?
11:49	Jomyoot	A.B
11:49	Jomyoot	B is defined inside A
11:50	Jomyoot	A.B or (. A B) do not work
11:50	Jomyoot	A.B
11:50	Jomyoot	(. A B ) do not work
11:50	cgrand	A$B
11:52	Chousuke	Jomyoot: A$B, and you need to explicitly import the class
11:52	Chousuke	~inner class
11:52	clojurebot	No entiendo
11:52	Chousuke	hmm
11:52	Jomyoot	darn
11:52	Jomyoot	thanks
11:53	Chousuke	clojurebot: inner class is <reply> To use an inner class Foo.Bar, import it with (import 'Foo$Bar), and you can refer to the class as Foo$Bar
11:53	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
11:55	Jomyoot	,(int-array [ ])
11:55	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
11:55	Jomyoot	,(int-array [1])
11:55	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@12bf469>
11:55	Jomyoot	now that's disturbing
11:55	Jomyoot	why cannot i have a int[] with size of 0
11:55	Chousuke	,(into-array Integer/TYPE [])
11:55	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@74bff8>
11:56	Chousuke	still, I suppose that is a bug.
11:57	ambient	is there any way to tab-complete java classes in clojure/emacs and rapidly jump to java classes documentation?
11:57	ambient	like (. frame <tab> lists all frame's methods
11:57	Jomyoot	,(into-array Integer/TYPE [1 2 3])
11:57	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@df980>
11:58	Jomyoot	is into-array Integer/TYPE the same as int-array?
11:58	ambient	or (FooJavaClass/<tab> also lists the possible options
12:03	Jomyoot	,(int-array [1 2 3])
12:03	clojurebot	#<int[] [I@1059fd6>
12:06	Fossi	doing something to the leaves of a tree. hints?
12:07	Jomyoot	#<Timestamp 2009-08-29 22:47:07.0> is a java.sql.TimeStamp, right?
12:44	hamza	anyone got etags to index .clj files?
13:06	emacsen	We can't escape durka42 ;)
13:07	durka42	nope
13:08	LauJensen	Jomyoot: Yes
13:14	LauJensen	Gents, I was thinking of doing a follow up on this http://www.dzone.com/links/java_vs_clojure_lets_talk_ceremony.html either sticking with java/c# for a few posts or moving on to PHP/Python - any suggestions? :)
13:30	ambient	what i would be interested in is RoR or Django vs. web dev with Clojure
13:32	ambient	btw i think you could do distinct with just putting and getting items out of a set. (referring to that linked article)
13:37	LauJensen	Yea ok. Unfortunately I've only done webdev with C#/ASP, I'm blank on RoR/Django
13:37	LauJensen	(and ofc w. compojure)
13:38	ambient	i just think that Clojure being a lisp makes ORM and templating a bit different comparing to the traditional methods in OOP
13:38	arbscht	is compojure mature enough to warrant comparison? the api is unstable and even compojure.org isn't up yet
13:43	rsynnott_	ambient: that's a framework issue to an extent
13:43	rsynnott_	(it's not a language thing per se)
13:43	ambient	but with lisp i think there's a more direct connection at least for templating
13:44	rsynnott_	well, there can be if you want it, I suppose
13:44	rsynnott_	there doesn't really _have_ to be
13:44	rsynnott_	(and in some cases it might be desirable to avoid it insofar as is possible)
13:45	ambient	i can't see the reasons for that
13:49	cgrand	ambient: when you say "but with lisp i think there's a more direct connection at least for templating" do you think of something like cl-who ? http://weitz.de/cl-who/
13:49	ambient	afaik most frameworks are tightly bound to language features. i don't see the merit of abstracting to the level where frameworks become language independent
13:50	ambient	cgrand yes
13:52	rsynnott_	ambient: many people might like to avoid using cl-who or an analagous clojure thing (does one exist?)
13:52	rsynnott_	it's often desirable to have non-programmers edit templates, for instance
13:53	arbscht	compojure uses nested structures like cl-who
13:53	rsynnott_	ah
13:54	cgrand	rsynnott_: several, eg http://github.com/mmcgrana/clj-html/tree/master and compojure.html
13:54	arbscht	but you're not limited to it, as with cl-who on hunchentoot
13:55	rsynnott_	you're not limited to cl-who on hunchentoot
13:55	arbscht	right
13:55	rsynnott_	(oh, sorry, I misread that)
13:55	snowwhite	ping
13:56	snowwhite	How can i check the type of an input in clojure?
13:56	arbscht	,(class 42)
13:56	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
13:59	snowwhite	How can i check the type of an input in clojure? Anyone?
13:59	arbscht	,(type 42)
13:59	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
13:59	arbscht	snowwhite: use one of those forms. type is more general (checks metadata before class)
14:02	cgrand	ambient: to have designers edit templates was a key design decision for enlive
14:02	LauJensen	I think making Compojure / ClojureQL the target for a few blog posts is a very good idea
14:02	Chouser	bah. I'm confused again about where delays are required for finger-trees.
14:03	Chouser	The bottom of page 7 says no delay is needed for cons/conj
14:04	Chouser	The only other operations discussed at that point are the deques (and the later operations are only O(log n) anyway, I think). So that suggests delays are needed for rest/pop
14:06	Chouser	rest/pop may recurse on deep-left/deep-right, so I've added a print there so I can see when descents happen -- and without any delays at all, they appear to happen at the pace described earlier on that page as what constitutes amortized O(1) time.
14:06	Chouser	so ... is delay needed at all? I'm sure I'm missing something...
14:07	ambient	cgrand it's a lot better than designers just designing static pages and the programmers making them function?
14:07	ambient	i've only worked in an environment where everyone knew how to code
14:07	ambient	who were doing webdev
14:08	cgrand	ambient: yes it's when the design change after you started to code
14:09	ambient	i see
14:15	rsynnott_	it's often desirable to be able to have UI people modify templates without help
14:23	snowwhite	I am trying to parse the json string. Here is the code snippet. Can anyone through some light?
14:24	snowwhite	I am trying to parse the json string. Here is the code snippet http://pastebin.ca/1557501. I Can anyone through some light?
14:24	snowwhite	I am trying to parse the json string. Here is the code snippet http://pastebin.ca/1557501. Can anyone through some light?
14:25	slashus2	snowwhite: Maybe you can refer to the implementation in clojure.contrib
14:25	danlarkin	snowwhite: that looks right to me, what's the problem?
14:26	slashus2	snowwhite: Sorry, I thought you were trying to implement a json parser before I looked at your snippet.
14:27	snowwhite	danlarkin: How do i extract the email from that vector. Inside the vector, it's not a map so that i can access it using keys
14:28	danlarkin	((first v) "email")
14:30	snowwhite	danlarkin, ?
14:30	danlarkin	ok, so you have a vector of two items, right? and each item has an "email" key and a "timestamp" key
14:30	danlarkin	so (first v) will be the first vector
14:31	danlarkin	and they you want the "email" key from that vector
14:31	danlarkin	s/they/then
14:31	danlarkin	did I misunderstand what you want?
14:32	danlarkin	sorry, (first v) will be the first hash-map, not first vector
14:32	snowwhite	I think it's not a hash-map any more
14:33	snowwhite	other i could have done (filter (fn [map] (get map :email)) data)
14:33	snowwhite	*otherwise
14:33	snowwhite	danlarkin, otherwise i could have done (filter (fn [map] (get map :email)) data)
14:34	danlarkin	no
14:34	danlarkin	the keys in your hash-maps are not keywords
14:34	danlarkin	they are strings
14:35	danlarkin	maybe that's where you're getting confused
14:42	snowwhite	danlarkin, (map (fn [d] (get d "email")) data) This should be the statement
14:42	arbscht	(map #(% "email") data)
14:42	snowwhite	danlarkin, Thanks for helping me in clearing up my doubts. - Cheers
14:43	snowwhite	arbscht, Exactly. Thanks
14:46	LauJensen	danlarkin: Now that you're all warmed up. What are the major benefits of using Compojure/Clojure vs Django ?
14:46	danlarkin	hahah ummmmmm can I defer my response?
14:47	LauJensen	sure
14:48	danlarkin	that is a loaded question :)
14:48	LauJensen	As always
15:07	ambient	LauJensen performance? java interop?
15:08	LauJensen	Any references that speak on performance?
15:09	danlarkin	LauJensen: is that to me? I had a stupid kernel panic, sorry
15:10	LauJensen	dan, ambient mentioned performance and java-interop
15:10	danlarkin	:-o
15:13	ambient	well nothing much except what can be found from google, http://berlinbrowndev.blogspot.com/2008/08/application-server-benchmarks-including.html
15:14	LauJensen	Very interesting... and very hard to compare graphs... Wonder why he picked a diffferent layout for each screenshot :)
15:18	LauJensen	But to be fair, you really only need one graph when you have something as clear as this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_syI_yyzTPG8/SJ5vxo4-qAI/AAAAAAAAAKU/cXblzLJRuAc/s1600-h/graph_django_default.png
15:21	ambient	yes, that is very clear
15:23	LauJensen	But I really dont like the trend of all the graphs, which is that PHP out performs everything else by a factor 10
15:37	hiredman	well php is a very simple language
15:40	hiredman	I have a lisp interpreter in php and have been daydreaming^W thinking about a compiler that emits php
15:40	hiredman	if you want to target php
15:40	LauJensen	I dont
15:41	LauJensen	Just wondering, why a language that got hammered in the language shootout, suddenly wins so big
15:43	Fossi	great. i just discovered that emacs does not save back into jar files, even if it seems like it does
15:43	Fossi	so i can reimplement all those changes i made to the clojure-couchdb client yesterday
15:43	danlarkin	Fossi: what? I believe it does
15:44	hiredman	:(
15:44	hiredman	surely you made the changes to a git checkout, and commited the changes then built a jar :P
15:45	Fossi	didn't do the trick for me. i thought so too
15:45	Fossi	it said saving yesterday all the time, but today my changes are gone
15:45	Fossi	even unjar'ed
15:45	LauJensen	M-x recover-this-file ?
15:45	arbscht	LauJensen: I'd guess it's optimized for serving dynamic content, not all the things the language shootout tests for
15:46	danlarkin	maybe you're looking at a different jar, I've made modifications to a jar in emacs and they've persisted
15:46	Fossi	LauJensen: i save backups to /tmp/ which gets wiped :D
15:46	Fossi	danlarkin: might be. let me try to open from emacs
15:47	LauJensen	Fossi: Alright, not too bright :)
15:47	Fossi	nope, no luck
15:48	Chousuke	what's the point of saving backups to a place that gets deleted? :P
15:48	Fossi	but let me check if i have another copy around that might be the modified one
15:50	LauJensen	Chousuke: I think if Emacs decided it was best to delete the code, it probably made the right call :)
16:00	tomoj	I don't get it, how could emacs save into a jar?
16:00	tomoj	emacs can open jar files as if they're directories or something?
16:05	Chousuke	tomoj: why not? treating zip files as directories in not exactly a new idea.
16:06	tomoj	oh, archive-mode
16:06	tomoj	that's kinda neat
16:07	tomoj	seems like it would be better to do what hiredman said
16:16	Fossi	tomoj: yes, seems like it to me as well now :D
16:16	Fossi	did somebody get fuzzy-completions to work?
16:17	tomoj	Fossi: not using the starter kit?
16:17	tomoj	oh or do you mean in source buffers
16:18	Fossi	1) no, i don't know about a starter kit and b) yes, i'd like it in source buffers
16:18	Chousuke	Fossi: works for me.
16:18	Chousuke	Fossi: you need a fairly recent SLIME though
16:18	Fossi	i can't figure it out. do i have to write a key binding and such?
16:18	tomoj	I don't have any completions at all in source buffers :(
16:18	Chousuke	C-c M-i should work at least
16:19	tomoj	somewhat fuzzy completion on the slime repl, though
16:20	Fossi	C-c M-i is undefined
16:20	Chousuke	wait, hm.
16:20	Chousuke	are we talking about the same thing, even?
16:20	Chousuke	There was a recent patch to swank-clojure that enable fuzzy completion through slime
16:20	Fossi	this: http://gist.github.com/179737 ?
16:21	Chousuke	yes
16:21	Chousuke	I had trouble getting it to work at first, but then it turned out to be because my SLIME was too old.
16:21	Fossi	i don't even get what to do with the file, apart from putting it into swank/commands/contrib/
16:22	Chousuke	I just applied the patch with git :)
16:22	tomoj	your modeline should have "Slime[clojure]" in it
16:23	Chousuke	where did you install SLIME from?
16:24	Chousuke	I had SLIME cloned from technomancy's github repo, which turned out to be from May :/
16:24	Chousuke	and it was too old
16:24	Fossi	my repl has REPL in it
16:25	Fossi	i have a slime checkout of 25 june
16:25	Chousuke	try upgrading
16:26	Chousuke	hopefully you have it from a git mirror so you can easily save the current state in a branch? :)
16:26	Fossi	ah, i can revert
16:26	Fossi	branching is for wussies
16:26	Chousuke	I wonder why anyone would use CVS nowadays.
16:26	Chousuke	or SVN.
16:26	Chousuke	except when forced to.
16:27	Chousuke	Well, SVN might be okay if you have to store binary files.
16:28	Fossi	my repl still says REPL
16:28	Fossi	nothing about SLIME[clojure]
16:28	Chousuke	oh, wait, the REPL buffer will say that
16:28	Chousuke	what about clojure buffers?
16:29	Chousuke	they should also say "Fuzzy"
16:29	Fossi	it says "Slime"
16:29	Chousuke	hmm.
16:29	snowwhite	Fossi, Nice article on Setting up Emacs & Clojure with Emacs Starter Kit http://freegeek.in/blog/2009/08/setting-up-emacs-clojure-with-emacs-starter-kit/
16:30	Fossi	snowwhite: well, now that i have it set up more or less, i'm not sure i should use it
16:30	Chousuke	Fossi: can you even do M-x slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol?
16:31	Chousuke	how do you load slime from your config?
16:31	snowwhite	Fossi, Cool
16:31	Fossi	also, i have a ton of stuff in my .emacs and .emacs.d
16:31	Chousuke	if you do just (slime-setup), that won't work :/
16:31	Chousuke	you need (slime-setup '(slime-fancy))
16:31	Chousuke	to get the good stuff :)
16:32	Fossi	no slime-fu for me :\
16:33	Fossi	actually, i guess my slime setup code is broken as is anyway
16:33	Fossi	i always have to M-x slime
16:33	Chousuke	that doesn't mean it's broken.
16:33	Chousuke	it's not automatic by default anyway
16:37	Chousuke	Fossi: http://github.com/Chousuke/emacs.d/blob/d826d63420dcdc90db639a4d3390a8c3773c8deb/init-clojure.el here's how I do it.
16:42	Fossi	Chousuke: ah, now it says slime[clojure]
16:44	Fossi	and C-c M-i is bound to fuzzy complete as well
16:47	Fossi	Chousuke: thanks, now i just have to find out what it actually completes :)
17:52	technomancy	Chousuke: so that fuzzy patch worked for you?
17:52	technomancy	I locked clojure-mode into using last-known-good revisions by default since so many people were complaining about breakage.
17:52	technomancy	but if there's a reason to update, I will definitely do it
17:58	Chousuke	technomancy: yeah, it does
18:02	technomancy	cool
18:10	ambient	sigh i dont know how to integrate java better to emacs but it's a bit laborious to browse the net for each method in each class when doing java interop
18:15	technomancy	ambient: do you know about the Slime inspector?
18:15	ambient	no
18:15	technomancy	C-c I over a java object, and it will list out all its methods
18:16	technomancy	been meaning to hook that into autocomplete, but the information is definitely there
18:16	technomancy	there's also a separate javadoc lookup package, but it's kind of awkward to use.
18:16	ambient	oh, i have to write that down :)
18:16	technomancy	yeah, it's super-helpful
18:17	ambient	thanks
19:11	prospero_	,(map println '(1 2 3))
19:11	clojurebot	(nil nil nil)
19:11	prospero_	hmm
19:11	prospero_	that's not what I'm getting at my repl
19:12	hiredman	~map
19:12	clojurebot	map is LAZY
19:13	prospero_	yes, but doesn't it get evaluated at the repl?
19:13	hiredman	it does, while it is getting printed out
19:13	prospero_	the output and printing is getting spliced together for me
19:13	prospero_	ah
19:13	prospero_	right
19:13	prospero_	the result and the printing, rather
19:13	prospero_	so that makes sense, I guess
19:14	prospero_	if I want to separate them I need to write to a string or something, right?
19:14	hiredman	,(doc with-out-str)
19:14	clojurebot	"([& body]); Evaluates exprs in a context in which out is bound to a fresh StringWriter. Returns the string created by any nested printing calls."
19:15	hiredman	but, you also have to watchout because map is lazy, and may be evauluated outside any dynamic bindings
19:15	prospero_	so I should realize the seq with doall?
19:15	hiredman	for side effect things like printing doseq is better
19:15	hiredman	,(doc seq)
19:15	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns a seq on the collection. If the collection is empty, returns nil. (seq nil) returns nil. seq also works on Strings, native Java arrays (of reference types) and any objects that implement Iterable."
19:15	hiredman	,(doc doseq)
19:15	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
19:15	prospero_	I'm just trying to debug a recursive function
19:16	prospero_	printing what's going on at each level
19:16	prospero_	so with-out-str sounds like a good bet
19:16	hiredman	is there a reason you just don't print the results of the map?
19:17	hiredman	,(prn (map inc (range 10)))
19:17	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)
19:17	hiredman	or whatever list
19:17	prospero_	I'm not actually using map, it was just a good way to demonstrate the behavior I was seeing
19:17	prospero_	I'm walking a tree
19:18	prospero_	anyways, with-out-str seems to be working
19:18	prospero_	thanks
20:36	technomancy	does anyone use the subprocess support included in clojure-mode rather than the full-fledged SLIME support?
20:36	technomancy	never actually heard of anyone using it
20:37	Chousuke	subprocess support?
20:37	technomancy	it's got some simplistic support for running Clojure in a subprocess and sending the current buffer to it
20:37	technomancy	a small subset of what slime offers
20:38	Chousuke	isn't that what inferior-lisp is for? :/
20:40	Chousuke	technomancy: have you considered adding support for launching multiple slime instances with clojure-project?
20:40	Chousuke	or should I say Clojure instances :/
20:43	Chousuke	Hm, gotta go to sleep. later.
20:46	technomancy	Chousuke: I'd accept a patch, but I run one Emacs instance per project myself.
20:46	technomancy	so I would be unlikely to add it myself
20:46	technomancy	I guess what I'm talking about in clojure-mode is the inf-lisp integration
20:57	somnium	any vimclojure users online?
21:31	somnium	is there a std library function to return the first item in a seq for which a pred returns true?
21:31	somnium	(I wrote one but would be embarassed to show it...)
21:35	shachaf	somnium: Why?
21:36	somnium	because its ugly, and its an extremely typical operation :)
21:36	somnium	,(first (drop-while #(x < 5) [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]))
21:36	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--4159$fn
21:37	somnium	gr
21:37	somnium	,(first (drop-while #(% < 5) [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]))
21:37	shachaf	somnium: Well, if the functions are lazy then that should be fine.
21:38	somnium	whered he go...
21:38	somnium	ah, true, I forgot about that
21:38	somnium	still haven't quite grasped laziness
21:38	shachaf	I don't know anything about Clojure, though; I should probably not have spoken in the first place. :-)
21:39	somnium	,(print "still here?")
21:39	clojurebot	still here?
21:40	hiredman	clojure is not lazy
21:40	somnium	,(first (drop-while #(< % 5) [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]))
21:40	hiredman	lazy sequences are lazy
21:40	shachaf	hiredman: I read "Most of the sequence library functions are lazy".
21:40	shachaf	I didn't investigate it further.
21:41	somnium	hiredman: is there a function in core or contrib to return the first item in a seq via pred?
21:43	hiredman	(comp first filter)
21:44	hiredman	there was a thrad on the google group about adding a function to contrib somewhere, but I forget if it ever was
21:44	somnium	ah
21:45	somnium	some things like that would increase the "user-friendliness" fact imho, but its easy now that I see it
21:45	somnium	and I guess thats much more flexible to specify (nth ...) or whatever
21:46	somnium	... I think I had a semi-"lisp enlightenment" moment the other day
21:47	somnium	was writing a gtk-wrapper in ruby, and couldn't get a really pleasing syntax without some form of xml
21:47	somnium	and it clicked
21:59	somnium	(comp first filter)
23:10	manic12	I watched clojure for lisp programmers and my brain hurt afterward
23:12	technomancy	that pain is weakness leaving the body
23:12	manic12	I don't know how to use the language yet, but i noticed it seems to work on JamVM running on ARM9
23:13	technomancy	mmm... Jam.
23:14	manic12	my brain is so wired for common lisp, that I feel actually like I'm at a disadvantage
23:15	technomancy	could be a lot worse
23:21	duck1123	manic12: just remind yourself that clojure is absolutely nothing like common lisp in any way whatsoever. That way you'll never be surprised.
23:22	dthomas	How should I find the index of the first occurrence of a given item in a vector? Or should I be using some other data type, like sorted-set or a map?
23:22	dthomas	(I see there's an (index) in docs but it's not clear if it does what I want and it doesn't seem to be in Clojure 1.0 anyway.)
23:24	manic12	I have a large c++ library swigged into CL and I am thinking of reworking the interface files to be for java, and i am contemplating how well it might work in a clojure world
23:28	manic12	i hope java has finalizations
23:43	dthomas	Getting the index of something in a vector really seems like it should be obvious and brief...
23:44	technomancy	sweet; jochu merged the fuzzy-find patch. =)
23:46	_mst	,(.indexOf [1 2 3 "hello" 4 5 6] "hello")
23:46	clojurebot	3
23:47	technomancy	wow, it's quite the patch
23:47	dthomas	_mst: [expletive deleted]
23:48	_mst	I'm hoping I'm not relying on implementation-dependent behaviour in doing that :)
23:52	dthomas	_mst: I guess that's because a PersistentVector is a java.util.List. Thanks for that.
23:53	_mst	yep, I think so. I couldn't see anywhere in the docs that said vectors were guaranteed to be Lists, but oh well :)
23:58	dthomas	Holy crap, repl-utils/show is awesome.