#clojure – 2009-08-29

2009-08-29

06:49	tomoj	is the person that built eugene around?
06:50	tomoj	huh, I can't find it on github now
06:51	fsm	If anyone is interested, performance is up 30-35% in code running on leopard vs snow leopard
06:57	tomoj	wow
06:57	tomoj	why?
07:02	fsm	I don't have a leopard install to test for the reason, but i was running java 1.6 on both
07:03	fsm	possible causes are better scheduling causing better cache usage, maybe the jvm has been tweaked for speed, maybe running in 64 bit affects it, ...
08:32	gerryxiao	hello
08:34	gerryxiao	how to use java someclass.class.getResource method in clojure?
08:36	gerryxiao	someclass should be main class of my application, but clojure not recognize it
08:40	gerryxiao	i have to compile it to get that class, but complier complained can't find that class
08:43	Chousuke	someclass.class gets you the Class object of SomeClass, rright?
08:43	Chousuke	is getResource a static method of Class?
08:44	gerryxiao	yes
08:44	Chousuke	then you want Class/getResource
08:45	gerryxiao	oops not static method
08:47	gerryxiao	(.getResource (class someclass) args)
08:48	Chousuke	just (.getResource SomeClass args)
08:48	Chousuke	if ti can't find the class, check your classpath
08:48	gerryxiao	nope, in java, is Someclass.class.getResouces(..)
08:49	gerryxiao	not SomeClass.getResource(..)
08:51	Chousuke	yeah, but in Clojure SomeClass.class is just SomeClass
08:51	Chousuke	,(.getCanonicalName String)
08:51	clojurebot	"java.lang.String"
08:52	gerryxiao	and this someclass is main class of my application, my main clojure file is cgogame.clj, so it should be cgogame class, but it not work
08:52	gerryxiao	ok, i try (.getResouce Class args)
08:53	Chousuke	you have the (ns ...) and :gen-class declaractions in place?
08:54	Chousuke	damnedlag. impossible to type :
08:54	gerryxiao	Chousuke, this class isnot compiled yet
08:54	Chousuke	it needs to be.
08:55	Chousuke	you won't have a class until it's compiled.
08:55	gerryxiao	but compiler complained can't init it
08:55	Chousuke	are you sure you need a class though?
08:55	Chousuke	maybe just a proxy would do
08:56	gerryxiao	proxy what, my main class?
08:56	Chousuke	why do you need to generate a class in the first place?
08:57	gerryxiao	maybe i don't understand java correctly
08:57	Chousuke	well, in java you would of course make a class, but that's not always the case with clojure.
08:57	gerryxiao	in java, when i make one class named test, then i can use this class name in class def, is it right?
08:58	Chousuke	Does that matter? are you coding in Java or in Clojure?
08:59	gerryxiao	i need call java lib, this method seems need it
08:59	Chousuke	I have to say I don't have a good grasp of Java myself.
08:59	Chousuke	yeah, you can call java libs. But do you need your own class for it?
09:00	Chousuke	if all the library wants is an instance of some class implementing some interface, proxy will work just fine.
09:00	gerryxiao	i'm programming one go game by clojure now, want to learn clojure
09:01	gerryxiao	GUI of this game need much java swing stuff
09:01	Chousuke	ah, yeah-
09:02	Chousuke	proxy works kjust fine for implementing swing GUI thingies
09:02	Chousuke	no need for genclassing
09:02	Chousuke	(doc proxy)
09:02	clojurebot	"([class-and-interfaces args & fs]); class-and-interfaces - a vector of class names args - a (possibly empty) vector of arguments to the superclass constructor. f => (name [params] body) or (name ([params] body) ([params+] body) ...) Expands to code which creates a instance of a proxy class that implements the named class/interface(s) by calling the supplied fns. A single class, if provided, must be first. If not provid
09:02	Chousuke	hmm.
09:02	Chousuke	maybe you should read it from the website.
09:04	gerryxiao	i knew it, and have wrote > 500 lines go game code, but sometimes get confused with java
09:05	gerryxiao	swing need much proxy code to work
09:06	Chousuke	yeah.
09:06	Chousuke	though macros and functions in Clojure make it much more pleasant than writing it in Java
09:07	Chousuke	But I can't really help now.I don't know what you want to accomplish :/
09:08	gerryxiao	clojure code is concise,if i worte it in java. i need at least two times codes
09:09	zakwilson	Has anybody come up with a Clojure wrapper library to make swing hurt less?
09:12	gerryxiao	how to reduce compiled class files?
09:13	Chousuke	reduce? hmm.
09:13	Chousuke	I don't think you need worry about them.
09:13	Chousuke	clojure produces one class for each function, so you end up with a lot, but they're all fairly small.
09:29	gerryxiao	does clojure support inline functions?
09:33	Chousuke	yeah
09:33	Chousuke	though in most cases you should just let hotspot do the inlining.
09:34	gerryxiao	you meant i dont' need care it ?
09:35	Chousuke	well, in most cases you won't
09:35	gerryxiao	nice
09:36	Chousuke	if you're writing performance-critical code you might have to use macros or definline instead of functions, but don't bother until it's necessary.
09:36	gerryxiao	ok
09:45	gerryxiao	ok, i have figure out the first question, i don't need that method to make it work, there is another method which don't need Class object.
09:45	gerryxiao	thx
09:47	gerryxiao	i need twist java instead of clojure to make game work ,that's a bit annoying.
09:57	gerryxiao	here is one snapshot of my clojure go game :http://imagebin.ca/view/bCB5BU.html,though it's still under alpha
09:58	gerryxiao	http://imagebin.ca/view/bCB5BU.html
10:02	tomoj	nice
10:02	tomoj	what java library are you using?
10:08	gerryxiao	does structmap support serialization?
10:08	tomoj	no :(
10:16	Chousuke	Somehow that doesn't look like a beginner opening pattern.
10:17	Chousuke	I think this because I probably would not play like that, and I'm just 7k :P
10:22	ankou	hi, how do I use multimethods with structs? The class of every struct is PersisentStructMap, so I suppose I can't use class as dispatchfunction. Is there a way to create own types or is there a better dispatchfunction or something like that?
10:23	Chousuke	you can use the type function
10:23	Chousuke	(doc type)
10:23	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns the :type metadata of x, or its Class if none"
10:23	Chousuke	or you can just use a key in the structmaps as the dispatch
10:24	ankou	how can I add a :type to the metadata of every instance of a struct?
10:25	Chousuke	you'll need a factory function.
10:25	Chousuke	hmm
10:26	Chousuke	I wonder if instances of structmap could inherit metadata from the struct object.
10:26	Chousuke	would make using :type for them rather convenient.
10:26	cark	not everyone likes the "type as metadata" thing
10:27	Chousuke	right.
10:27	cark	i'd rather have an normal slot for this
10:27	Chousuke	mit might make more sense to dispatch on some other key.
10:27	Chousuke	or even multiple keys
10:28	Chousuke	don't be constrained by types :)
10:28	cark	i think it's good practice to have either metadata or additional slot for the type, but leave it to the programmer to go either way
10:29	Chousuke	and if you use metadata for the type, then ordinary maps can't be used :/
10:31	ankou	mhm yeah, it would probably make more sense to dispatch on keys.
10:44	ankou	what is the license of clojure and clojure.contrib anyway? Since I need to distribute those in order to use them I suppose I should ask for the restrictions first. I saw that at least parts of the clojure.contrib library are published under the terms of CPL, can I use them from a GPL program? or a proprietary program?
10:45	Chousuke	both are EPL
10:45	cark	ankou : my understanding is that yes you can
10:46	gerryxiao	tomoj: mainly swing
10:46	Chousuke	if there is anything in contrib that claims to be CPL, that's a bug
10:46	gerryxiao	i'm 4d in cgoban
10:46	gerryxiao	sometimes 5d
10:46	ankou	yes I meant EPL, german wikipedia redirects from EPL to CPL, what's the difference between these licenses?
10:46	Chousuke	EPL is the newer licence.
10:47	Chousuke	CPL should redirect to EPL :/
10:48	Chousuke	but my understanding is that you can write GPL clojure programs just fine.
10:48	ankou	But still GPL incompatible, right? I find this GPL compatibilitystuff hard to understand. Is it possible to distribute a gpl program which uses a library, that is not gpl-compatible?
10:49	Chousuke	if the GPL required the libraries your program uses to be GPL, then GPL programs on windows would be impossible :/
10:50	ankou	at least the other way around holds true
10:50	Chousuke	yeah, if you link to GPL libraries then your program is a derivative work.
10:51	Chousuke	but Clojure is not a derivative work of your GPL code
10:53	ankou	I suppose that makes sense.
10:56	Chousuke	hmm
10:57	Chousuke	"Based upon the position of the Free Software Foundation, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where linking exists between code made available under those licenses."
10:57	Chousuke	that's rather weird
10:58	Chousuke	complicated by the java notion of linking which happens at runtime :P
11:03	cark	ankou : do you absolutely need gpl ?
11:04	cark	mybe epl might suit you just as well ?
11:04	cark	*maybe
11:04	ankou	well I think it would be a major problem in general if it is impossible to write GPL code with Clojure?
11:16	ankou	Chousuke: you can write GPL code on windows because GPL seems to have a system library exception.
11:17	Chousuke	hm
11:17	Chousuke	wonder if that'd apply to clojure
11:18	Chousuke	woop
11:18	ankou	at least not in terms of GPLv2, which explicitly excludes everything that is distributed with the GPL application
11:18	Chousuke	so hm
11:19	Chousuke	could you get around by simply not distributing clojure.jar?
11:19	ankou	There is also another thing "If you want your program to link against a library not covered by the system library exception, you need to provide permission to do that. " however I don't really understand what they mean. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs
11:22	ankou	It seams that it is possible to change the GPL to have special exceptions but I suppose that wouldn't the usage of any GPL libraries, since I can't put the exception in their license.
11:24	rhickey	ankou: the GPL is not compatible with the EPL, that's the fault of the GPL
11:27	ankou	rhickey: I don't think it is important whose fault this is. It is a fact that there is lots of GPL software and GPL librarys out there and that GPL is standard on linux systems and not beeing able to use them really is a major problem.
11:28	rhickey	ankou: I can't fix gpl
11:30	Chousuke	Is there a reason clojure is gpl-incompatible though? I know EPL is friendlier for commercial users, but that doesn't rule out dual-licencing for example.
11:32	Chousuke	And Clojure being a programming language I think excluding any licence is counterproductive.
11:32	rhickey	Chousuke: dual licensing means people can create derivative works that are GPL, i.e. that I and others can't use as freely as what they originated from. That's not my idea of a reciprocal license.
11:34	Chousuke	this just prevent people from using any GPL java libraries with Clojure. I don't know if that really will be a problem, but it'd be better if the problem didn't exist in the first place.
11:34	Chousuke	prevents*
11:34	cark	a co-routine implementation would require a code-walking macro wouldn't it ?
11:34	rhickey	the problem is with the GPL libraries, complaints should go to them
11:35	rhickey	it is GPL that's preventing
11:35	rhickey	EPL has not restrictions on the things with which it can be combined
11:36	Chousuke	hmm. I suppose.
11:36	ankou	rhickey: The incompatibility already existed when you chose the license, so it was your decision to make clojure GPL-incompatible and not the decision of the FSF
11:36	rhickey	ankou: that's silly
11:36	cark	the fsf is annoying with its non-free free software
11:36	rhickey	GPL is incompatible with the world, not the world with GPL
11:37	cark	though they served a purpose, they are such zealots ... roll-eyes
11:37	rhickey	If you choose to use GPL software that's what happens to you, buyer beware
11:38	rhickey	I chose a license that provides no restrictions on what it can be combined with, others chose licenses with restrictions on what they can be combined with. If you can't combine things, it's not my fault
11:39	rhickey	use libraries with better licenses
11:39	ankou	rhickey: that's childish.
11:39	rhickey	ankou: yes, any child could figure it out
11:40	rhickey	as adults, we make choices and have to live with them, choosing GPL means a lot of restrictions
11:41	rhickey	in any case, Clojure is not going to become GPL or LGPL
11:41	rhickey	I can't use that in my work, period
11:43	ankou	rhickey: there are lots of other gpl-compatible licenses
11:45	rhickey	ankou: the GPL is not compatible with any other reciprocal license, AFAIK
11:45	rhickey	why should the GPL be the only reciprocal license in the world?
11:47	rhickey	If you really want to use a GPL library with Clojure, ask them to change it to LGPL, which drops the combining poison
11:47	Raynes	If it's a library, it should probably be LGPL in the first place.
11:47	rhickey	right,
11:48	angerman	hmm.. GPL+exception(you must license all your deriv work under EPL)
11:48	angerman	I wonder if that's legal :]
11:54	tomoj	I hate this licensing crap :(
12:01	rhickey	there would be no licensing issues if GPL didn't want to impose things on combined work. Every other license can be combined with every other, only impacting truly derived (not merely combined) work
12:05	cark	wasn't the original question about using clojure from a gpl program anyways ? i don't see how this would be restricted
12:07	ankou	<Chousuke> "Based upon the position of the Free Software Foundation, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where linking exists between code made available under those licenses."
12:07	ankou	which is a quote from the EPL FAQ
12:09	cark	oh i see
12:20	jkantz_	are there any efforts under way to port CLOS to clojure or to make something CLOS-like for clojure?
12:23	tomoj	jkantz_: what's wrong with clojure's multimethods?
12:27	pluijzer	I think there brilliant
12:28	rhickey	jkantz: yes, I forget where it lives though
12:28	jkantz_	ok, nothing wrong with multimethods, just curious
12:29	jkantz_	wanted to look at it
12:29	jkantz_	s/it/code/
12:29	tomoj	what would be the point of a CLOS-like thing for clojure?
12:29	pluijzer	is there an other language that uses Clojure style multimethods?
12:29	tomoj	I mean, would it just attach metadata and generate appropriate dispatch functions for you implicitly?
12:31	rhickey	http://code.google.com/p/explorersguild/wiki/XGModelAndGF
12:33	jkantz_	thanks
12:36	arbscht	pluijzer: fwiw, I've implemented simple prototypes of clojure-like multimethods in javascript and python
12:42	rhickey	fn-tuple needs a better name: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_frm/thread/155c8b9893d673bc
12:43	rhickey	I've got a version that produces vectors
12:43	pluijzer	arbscht: any source of info about the python one?
12:46	maacl	Has anyone used the CouchDB clojure view server that comes with Clutch (http://github.com/tashafa/clutch) ?
12:46	rhickey	Haskell has binary &&&, called fanout or both, not really good names here
12:48	rhickey	((comp a b c) x) => (a (b (c x)), ((??? a b c) x) => [(a x) (b x) (c x)]
12:49	rhickey	juxt?
12:49	rhickey	for juxtapose
12:49	rhickey	compose/juxtapose
12:49	rhickey	comp/juxt
13:04	Chousuke	rhickey: that's a lot like Sean Devlin's fn-tuple idea.
13:05	rhickey	it is exactly that idea
13:05	rhickey	I pointed to the discussion
13:06	rhickey	I just worked it up for inclusion, now just need a name
13:06	Chousuke	ah, right. it had scrolled of my screen :)
13:07	Chousuke	juxt is a bit weird though. hm.
13:08	Chousuke	I guess combine is a bit too generic.
13:11	rhickey	conjf ?
13:11	rhickey	conjfn
13:12	rhickey	adjoin
13:12	rhickey	allfn
13:13	rhickey	abut
13:15	alrex021	do Agents in Clojure provide any guaranty that the action in the transaction 'will' happen?
13:15	rhickey	nothing other than appose is as correct as juxt[apose]
13:16	rhickey	appose?
13:17	rhickey	alrex021: the actions are not themselves transactional, just held until the transaction completes
13:23	ankou	are there any finished projects written in Clojure?
13:25	danlarkin	ankou: no program is ever finished :)
13:25	arbscht	ankou: there are many live projects in production using clojure, if that's any consolation :)
13:26	ankou	lets say non-beta-release
13:26	rhickey	http://www.flightcaster.com/
13:29	alrex021	are there any good examples of projects that make good use of Clojure's transactional API? (preferably OSS)
13:31	alrex021	flightcaster doesn't seem to utilize the Clojure's transactional API as they deligate the concurrency concerns to hadoop, cascade...
13:34	alrex021	so I heard on a recent podcast :)
13:34	arbscht	compojure the web framework uses it to manage in-memory session state
13:37	alrex021	gr8, I'll have a look at compojure. I'm watching Rich's concurrency screencast and talks about the Ant concurrency example...is it available somewhere for download?
13:41	ole3	hello, is there a precompiled version of clojure?
13:42	alrex021	ok, I found the ant app on the clojure google-group files
13:44	rhickey	juxt/conjf/adjoin/abut/allfn/appose - anyone?
13:45	arbscht	alrex021: that might be out of date. see here instead http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/
13:49	ole3	ah, ok found the jar, sorry for the spam
13:53	arbscht	rhickey: 'gib'?
13:54	rhickey	arbscht: meaning what?
13:56	arbscht	I see (gib a b c) as collecting a b and c in a 'gib' (notched structure), so when invoked with x, x is exposed to all the edges of the structure
13:57	arbscht	[(a x) (b x) (c x)] would be the "cut of the gib" of x, I guess
13:59	rhickey	arbscht: I didn't get that at all from gib
13:59	rhickey	anyways, it's up as juxt for now, final name TBD
14:00	arbscht	too obscure then :)
14:23	gko	What's the equivalent of CL return in Clojure?
14:30	Chousuke	what does return do?
14:33	ole3	'return' returns from a block
14:33	Chousuke	ah. then there's no way to do that in clojure that I know of.
14:34	Chousuke	using return would mean you have side-effects somewhere.
14:34	Chousuke	not very clojurey I suppose :P
14:34	ole3	yes
14:35	ole3	:)
14:37	Chousuke	funny, though. Before I learned clojure I don't think I would have asked what a function called "return" does :P
14:38	ole3	return is not a function :)
14:39	ole3	return is a macro, witch it expands to return-from witch is a special form
14:39	ole3	nevermind
14:40	Chousuke	okay. operator, then :P
14:40	ole3	Are there many former cl'ers here?
14:44	arbscht	there are some. I still use CL
14:52	kylesmith	I've used cl
15:04	luis	ole3: former... pff. :)
15:40	maacl	How does one write a function that takes a literal value (string) and returns a function that operates on this literal value?
15:41	hiredman	eh?
15:46	maacl	If I pass "hello" to the function the returned function must contain the literal value of "hello" not a var.
15:47	angerman	how would I determine the substrposition of a re-match?
15:49	hiredman	maacl: contain?
15:49	hiredman	closed over locals are not vars
15:50	rhickey	,((fn [x] x) "hello")
15:50	clojurebot	"hello"
15:51	hiredman	rhickey: he seems to be big on the word literal, os I assume he somehow wants the returned function contain "hello", which doesn't make sense, but that is what he sounds like he wants
15:51	maacl	ah
15:54	maacl	I am using Clutch which is a library for using CouchDB. It contains a view server for CouchDB which takes a view function. This function cannot contain a external reference. Sorry if I mess up the terms
15:56	cupertinochad	What is the customary way to calculate an average time for an expression to be evaluated over a number of runs? Is there a standard function for this or a commonly used idiom? (time expr) gives me the time for one run, but those results are misleading.
16:02	maacl	hiredman: I am sorry if the question doesn't make any sense
16:15	rhickey	maacl: do you have a link to the api you are trying to satisfy, or any code?
16:16	maacl	rhickey: sure http://github.com/tashafa/clutch/tree/master
16:16	rhickey	clojure string literals get interned in compiled code just like Java's
16:17	hiredman	are you sure clutch takes a function?
16:18	hiredman	seems like it would take a datastructure that looks like the datastructure defining a function
16:18	hiredman	and transform it to javascript somehow
16:19	maacl	hiredman: yes I believe so, if you see the link above - it is not transformed to javascript - clojure is use as the view-server
16:20	maacl	I am messing around with load-string to see if I can make it do what I want to
16:21	hiredman	:(
16:21	rhickey	maacl: what did you try that didn't work, and how?
16:23	hiredman	yeah, with-clj-view-server doesn't take functions
16:24	hiredman	it takes a list '(fn [x] x)
16:25	hiredman	which it serializes as a string
16:26	maacl	I tried this http://paste.lisp.org/+1UJJ
16:27	hiredman	definitely not going to work
16:27	maacl	I sort of figured that out
16:28	hiredman	:P
16:29	hiredman	bacause what apears to be a function pased to with-clj-view-server is turned back into a string, then actually evaluated somewhere outside of that lexical scope
16:29	hiredman	you might need to write your own macro
16:29	maacl	hiredman: indeed, that is why I was looking for a way to get a literal value in there
16:30	hiredman	,(let [x 1] `(1 2 3 ~x))
16:30	clojurebot	(1 2 3 1)
16:32	pluijzer	I'm very new to clojure so pardon the simple question but do I need the java library to spawn threads?
16:32	hiredman	the java library?
16:33	pluijzer	yes?
16:33	hiredman	what do you mean by "the java library"
16:34	pluijzer	do I need methods from Java?
16:34	hiredman	nope
16:34	maacl	hiredman: ah
16:34	hiredman	simplest is to just use future
16:35	hiredman	maacl: I think you are going to have to construct your own version of the with-clj-view-server macro
16:35	hiredman	,(doc future)
16:35	clojurebot	"([& body]); Takes a body of expressions and yields a future object that will invoke the body in another thread, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent calls to deref/@. If the computation has not yet finished, calls to deref/@ will block."
16:36	pluijzer	hiredman: thank you!
16:36	hiredman	there are also agents
16:37	hiredman	you can also do something like (.start (Thread. #(prn :foo)))
16:38	pluijzer	thank you I'll try that]
16:45	Chouser	rhickey: new's "this" apprears to be unhinted
16:47	rhickey	Chouser: completely - no-reflective self calls are todo, also more than a hint is required, all the code is compiled before this's class exists and thus there is no reflective type info for the compiler
16:47	rhickey	non-reflective
16:48	rhickey	so all use of this will require special handling in the compiler
16:48	hiredman	head explodes
16:49	Chouser	ah. hm. I was able to work around it by hinting the interface that provids the interface I'm calling
16:50	rhickey	that will work for everything other than self-calls to methods added in reify
16:50	Chouser	It's not called 'reify' on github yet -- dunno if it's not ready or just an oversight.
16:50	rhickey	but in the end shouldn't be necessary
16:51	rhickey	suggestions for something-other-than-new still welcome, there's no code yet using reify
16:52	rhickey	also, you missed juxt discussion before
16:52	Chouser	saw it mentioned on the group
16:53	rhickey	:)
16:58	Chouser	you're set against re-using "new"? Right now, that's the primitive for creating new instance of Java objects.
16:59	rhickey	Chouser: other than fn
16:59	Chouser	hm, and 'fn' I suppose
16:59	Chouser	but if fn is defined in terms of newnew, we get that back
16:59	Chouser	hm, and every object literal.
17:00	rhickey	new is the way you create an object given its class name, reify both creates code and makes an instance
17:01	rhickey	plus reify has all the closing over stuff
17:01	Chouser	I also like how it read. Here I'm making a new Indexed Sequable IPersistentVector.
17:01	Chouser	how it reads.
17:02	Chouser	I guess it emphasises the instance creation perhaps at the expense of the closing-over, class-defining behavior.
17:06	rhickey	all discussions of new would have to be bifurcated right away on that
17:06	Chouser	and docs. Ok, I can see your point.
17:07	Chouser	implementing Indexed is insufficient for destructuring.
17:08	rhickey	due to?
17:08	Chouser	I have to implement IPersistentVector in order to get a nth method with a not-found arg.
17:10	rhickey	oh, that should be fixed to be the same, using Indexed first, as in RT.nth(Object coll, int n)
17:11	rhickey	I thought I did that
17:11	rhickey	ah, is that way in master
17:11	Chouser	oh!
17:15	Chouser	git cherry-pick 7ba336f5
17:15	rhickey	Chouser: do I need to do that?
17:16	Chouser	or I can push it, thought that might complicate merges later.
17:16	Chouser	though
17:16	Chouser	I'm ok running a weird version of clojure for my finger tree stuff for now.
17:18	rhickey	ok
17:34	cemerick	wow, I'm glad I missed the licensing debate last november
17:40	cemerick	rhickey: you must do a great deal of mediation. I have zero patience for such discussions.
17:40	cemerick	...especially when I get some fool coming around saying we should open source product. :x
17:43	ole3	,(doc reify)
17:43	clojurebot	Excuse me?
18:26	technomancy	~(find-doc "absolute value")
18:26	clojurebot	Pardon?
18:26	technomancy	,(find-doc "absolute value")
18:26	clojurebot	nil
18:27	technomancy	what do you call that in Java-land?
18:31	kylesmith	,(Math/abs -1)
18:31	clojurebot	1
18:34	technomancy	thakns
19:29	krumholt_	how can i use one of my .clj files in another .clj file?
19:33	arbscht	krumholt_: if the directory containing foo.clj is in your classpath, you can (:require foo) in another namespace
19:33	krumholt_	arbscht, ok i allready have it thanks i was looking for (refer ..)
19:59	ambient	anyone know how I can autocomplete java libraries and methods in emacs with clojure-mode, slime, etc? and perhaps view some documentation
20:29	kylesmith	Is anyone attending this conference? http://www.lanl.gov/conferences/lacss/2009/agenda/workshops.shtml
21:00	Chouser	anyone know if any videos from ilc2009 are available yet?
21:01	rhickey	Chouser: not as far as I know
21:08	Chouser	I should have started with reify. more fun than a pile of functions on vectors.
21:14	Chouser	also seems plausible that one could use some macros to produce collections of primitives without a whole lot more code.