#clojure – 2009-07-08

2009-07-08

00:27	technomancy	who wants to try out my dependency management project? http://github.com/technomancy/corkscrew/tree/master
02:30	doubleagent	Is this the correct channel for 'support' questions?
02:33	slashus2	What question do you have?
02:35	doubleagent	Fairly simple. How do I force a Ratio or Double to be represented as an Integer/Long/BigNum?
02:36	slashus2	,(double 5/4)
02:36	slashus2	(bigint 5/4)
02:37	slashus2	doubleagent: That what you mean?
02:39	doubleagent	slashus2, thanks - I see those forms in the api now too. :)
02:39	slashus2	doubleagent: This is dex by the way.
02:39	slashus2	:-P
02:40	doubleagent	:)
02:55	slashus2	doubleagent: Rich Hickey hangs out in here often too.
02:56	doubleagent	cool.
05:49	tsdh	Hi. What do I have to do to get a repl when invoking "java -jar my-stuff.jar"?
05:50	tsdh	This jar contains all clojure class files and my code. In my ant jar target there's <exclude name="*/Test.java"/>.
05:50	tsdh	Ups, sorry. I've meant: <attribute name="Main-Class" value="clojure.lang.Repl"/>
05:52	tsdh	But executing the jar errors: http://paste.lisp.org/display/83222
05:59	tsdh	Hm. I replaced the value of Main-Class with "clojure.main", but I get the same exceptions.
05:59	hoeck	tsdh: and you have set a classpath?
06:00	hoeck	tsdh: as in the clojure build.xml?
06:00	tsdh	It is ".". Yes, exactly the same.
06:00	asbjxrn	Is the line reader part of the jar?
06:00	asbjxrn	Uh...
06:02	tsdh	asbjxrn: It's in java, so it should be there anyway, right?
06:03	tsdh	I annotated my previous paste with the complete build.xml.
06:04	asbjxrn	Yes I got confused there, thought it was that jline.ConsoleRunner lib... Don't know how I managed to misread that badly.
06:06	tsdh	Oh, in the paste of the exception backtrace I omitted the last line. "Could not find the main class: clojure.main. Program will exit."
06:08	tsdh	But looking at the jar's contents, there is clojure/main.class...
06:09	hoeck	tsdh: so you are compiling clojure into this jar, and additionally your own (compiled) namespace?
06:10	tsdh	Yes.
06:11	hoeck	what about only compiling your namespace and adding a precompiled clojure.jar to your own jarfile?
06:12	tsdh	I tried that first, but it didn't work, too...
06:12	hoeck	too bad, mhh, do you have a build-xml for that latter case?
06:13	tsdh	sure, I'll annotate my paste.
06:15	tsdh	done
06:16	tsdh	Ups, there's a small error in it. The jar target depends on unjar, and it should depend on compile.
06:17	tsdh	I fixed that and annotatet the past with the error I get with this jar.
06:27	tsdh	Hm, when I omit the (unpacked) jar in my jar and call it with "java -cp ".:clojure.jar:myjar.jar" clojure.main, it works...
06:35	hoeck	packaging a jar inside a jar and then setting the manifests classpath attribute is not allowed - thats new to me
06:35	hoeck	tsdh: so I'm going tol try the other approach : )
06:55	hoeck	tsdh: its the version.properties file in the clojure subfolder that is missing from the jar
06:57	hoeck	tsdh: clojure loads it at class-initialization-time
06:58	ChrisPS	Using emacs slime, can I select a function-name and jump to its definition in clojure-mode?
06:59	hoeck	tsdh: adding <include name="*/.properties"/> to the unjar pattern and <fileset dir="${build}" includes="*/.properties"/> to the create-jar pattern works
07:02	hoeck	ChrisPS: the slime-edit-definition command will do that
07:03	hoeck	ChrisPS: but it isn't very reliable here (using xemacs, and a not up-to-date clojure-mode/swank/slime)
07:08	ChrisPS	hoeck: oh, this works perfectly here (!)
07:11	hoeck	ChrisPS: well, then maybe I'm going to update my setup, but no its lunchtime : )
07:11	hoeck	r/no/now
07:48	hoeck	tsdh: I have annotated your paste with a build.xml that works (at least with my setup)
07:58	bartj	can someone please help me setup REPL using vimclojure
07:58	durka42	bartj: what OS are you on?
07:58	bartj	durka42: Ubuntu
07:59	durka42	ok, do you have vim and clojure and vimclojure installed already
07:59	tsdh	hoeck: Thanks.
07:59	bartj	I have got most of it right, except I am unable to understand how to set up LocalLeader, etc.
08:00	bartj	durka42: yes
08:01	durka42	so you should be able to do \sr from within a clojure file to start a repl
08:02	durka42	provided you have vimclojure's ng-server running
08:05	bartj	durka42, yes I have the ng-server running
08:07	durka42	but nothing happens when you do \sr?
08:07	bartj	durka42, no
08:07	bartj	I don't think I have specified the map properly in my vimrc
08:07	bartj	can you tell me how it should look like?
08:08	bartj	I have the foll. lines in my vimrc:
08:08	bartj	let vimclojure#NailgunClient = "/home/<username>/clojure/vimclojure-2.1.1/ngclient"
08:08	bartj	let clj_want_gorilla = 1
08:10	bartj	can someone help me setting up the REPL in vim (using vimclojure)
08:11	bartj	I have the ng-server running but, when I type "\sr" in vim the REPL does not start :(
08:11	bartj	I haven't used maps in vim yet
08:11	durka42	i have let g:clj_want_gorilla = 1, not sure if that makes any difference
08:12	durka42	do you have a .clj file open in vim?
08:12	bartj	durka42, yes
08:12	bartj	durka42, I'll try that
08:13	bartj	durka42, no luck
08:14	bartj	also, does vimclojure not have automatic paranthesis closing?
08:15	durka42	no it doesn't
08:15	durka42	you might find surround.vim and autoclose.vim helpful
08:15	bartj	both?
08:16	bartj	durka42, I think my main problem is that I am not able to set "<LocalLeader>" in my .vimrc file
08:20	durka42	does it work if you do :call vimclojure#Repl.New() directly?
08:23	bartj	durka42, it throws me two warnings but yes! it does work!!!
08:24	bartj	durka42, I am not able to "type" anything though
08:24	durka42	in the repl?
08:24	bartj	durka42, the warnings are - Couldn't execute Nail! /bin/bash: /home/kiran/clojure/vimclojure-2.1.1/ngclient: is a directory
08:25	durka42	eh...
08:25	bartj	durka42, I think this is because, I have this in my .vimrc
08:25	durka42	is that a directory?
08:25	bartj	yes
08:25	durka42	you should set that to the executable
08:26	durka42	not the directory it is in
08:26	bartj	durka42, I am on Unbuntu
08:26	durka42	if you go into the vimclojure-2.1.1 directory and run ant, you will get an executable called ng in vimclojure-2.1.1
08:26	bartj	and I have a ng.exe so, it wouldn't make sense right?
08:27	durka42	no, not that one
08:27	durka42	there should be a file named ng
08:28	bartj	there is something called ng-server
08:28	bartj	in vimclojure-2.1.1/bin directory
08:29	bartj	my local.properties in the vimclojure directory looks like this:
08:29	bartj	clojure.jar = /home/username/clojure/clojure/clojure.jar
08:29	bartj	clojure-contrib.jar = /home/username/clojure/clojure-contrib/clojure-contrib.jar
08:29	clojurebot	clojure is a language to use if you want to up your game
08:29	bartj	nailgun-client = ng
08:29	bartj	vimdir = /home/username/.vim
08:31	bartj	durak42, are you there? please help
08:32	bartj	there is a ng.exe
08:38	bartj	I am on Ubuntu, unable to setup REPL on vimclojure
08:38	durka42	sorry, i wasn't paying attention
08:38	durka42	first, change the directories in local.properties so they point to your actual clojure and contrib jars
08:38	bartj	durka42, you are like my only hope now to clojure (seriously)
08:38	durka42	then run ant in the vimclojure-2.1.1 directory
08:39	bartj	yes, did that
08:39	bartj	running ant throws and error - "java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.Var.deref()Ljava/lang/Object; "
08:39	tsdh	When I start a repl with 'java -cp ".:clojure.jar:other.jar" clojure.main' and then try to `use' a namespace from other.jar, I get a "java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)".
08:39	tsdh	What should that tell me?
08:40	durka42	the ant error is interesting...
08:40	durka42	is your clojure up to date?
08:41	tsdh	Well, somehow. When I use my slime repl using the same clojure version, it works
08:41	bartj	durka42, how do I see the version number?
08:42	tsdh	Ups, wrong conversation. :-)
08:43	durka42	where did you download it from?
08:43	durka42	there is a file in clojure/src/clj/clojure/version.properties
08:43	durka42	tsdh: try to get a backtrace?
08:45	tsdh	durka42: How?
08:49	bartj	where can I get clojure-contrib from?
08:49	bartj	I have got the latest clojure from here - http://code.google.com/p/clojure/downloads/list
08:49	Chouser	bartj: clojure and contrib latest are now at github
08:50	Chouser	bartj: http://github.com/richhickey/
08:50	durka42	tsdh: (.printStackTrace *e)
08:50	bartj	Chouser: you mean the stable versions?
08:51	bartj	Chouser: How can I know the version of my clojure?
08:51	Chouser	bartj: all versions are at github. google code is no longer being updated.
08:51	Chousuke	bartj: the stable is still 1.0.0 though.
08:52	Chouser	bartj: if you have at least version 1.0 of clojure, you can type clojure-version at the repl
08:54	bartj	It gives me a "Unable to resolve symbol"
08:54	Chousuke	then you have some old version :/
09:00	bartj	Can someone mention on clojure hosted on googlecode project that it is not the latest!
09:01	Chouser	there's a small note on http://code.google.com/p/clojure/
09:01	rhickey	bartj: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/ says "Note - the latest development is on GitHub and Assembla"
09:02	Chouser	the featured download there is 1.0.0 which is the latest stable anyway
09:02	Chouser	latest release
09:02	Chousuke	is there going to be a bugfix release of 1.0 anytime soon though?
09:03	Chousuke	Chouser: also, have you noticed that you can use assembla to "connect" two tickets together. maybe that would be useful for the 1.0-bugfix tracking tickets.
09:04	Chouser	Chousuke: ooh, no I hadn't.
09:04	bartj	rhickey: thanks! (I missed that, maybe it can be in red or something :)
09:04	Chousuke	there's an "associations" thingy on the ticket page
09:04	Chouser	Chousuke: ok thanks.
09:06	Chousuke	it doesn't seem to like associating things with closed tickets though :/
09:08	Chousuke	but it seems you could just create a ticket, then click "associate with new ticket" to create the bugfix tracking ticket as a child of the main entry.
09:10	AWizzArd	Any windows user here who has installed JDK 6 Update 14?
09:10	Chouser	yeah, that looks good -- one operation makes a two-way link.
09:22	bartj	can anyone please tell me how to start REPL in vim using vimclojure?
09:22	bartj	I donot have the mapping set up properly for "\sr"
09:23	bartj	durka42: if I type :call vimclojure#Repl.New() in vim I get the following errors
09:23	clojurebot	vimclojure is state-of-the-art
09:23	bartj	Couldn't execute Nail! java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class de.kotka.vimclojure.nails.Repl at java.lang.Class.forName0(Native Method) a t java.lang.Class.forName(Class.java:169) at com.martiansoftware.nailgun.NGSession.run(Unknown Source
09:24	bartj	someone please help!
09:29	bartj	can someone help me setup REPL on vimclojure?
09:29	clojurebot	http://www.khanacademy.org/
09:29	bartj	is anyone here?
09:29	bartj	or is everyone ignoring me?
09:29	bartj	test
09:30	rhickey	bartj: I'm sure if someone knew the answer they'd chime in - I don't
09:30	Chousuke	bartj: Maybe there are no vimclojure users around :/
09:30	Chousuke	but that looks like your classpath isn't properly configured
09:36	AWizzArd	rhickey: any news about Datalog? And btw, is DL comparable to Jess (rule engine)?
09:38	rhickey	AWizzArd: there is datalog in contrib, I haven't had as much time for it as I'd like, differs from Jess in being "backward chaining" (although can be bottom-up) vs forward-chaining Rete in Jess
09:38	rhickey	try it out!
09:40	AWizzArd	Ah good, it arrived in contrib by now. While Jess is nice it is by far too expensive.
09:41	rhickey	How much is Jess?
09:46	AWizzArd	rhickey: if you want to fully use it 75k
09:46	AWizzArd	but an evaluation license for 90 days or so only costs 5k
09:47	AWizzArd	this is for companies but also for personal use. Only the US government may use it for free, and universities may apply for a free license.
09:47	asbjxrn	5k for evaluation!?
09:47	AWizzArd	yup
09:48	rhickey	well, there's Drools then
09:48	AWizzArd	ah no, 2000 for 90 days evaluation (just checked again)
09:50	AWizzArd	Lisa is unfortunately very clos'ish which would make a translation harder. Not much reusable code.
09:51	rhickey	http://www.jboss.org/drools/
09:54	rhickey	the only problem with Drools, IIRC, was that they weren't great at dynamic facts, i.e. you (I) want to be able to use java.util.Maps (and thus Clojure maps) as facts, and they wanted POJOs with bean properties :(
09:55	bartj	durka42 are you there?
09:56	bartj	I get the foll. error - Couldn't execute Nail! java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class de.kotka.vimclojure.nails.Repl at java.lang.Class.forName0(Native Method) a t java.lang.Class.forName(Class.java:169) at com.martiansoftware.nailgun.NGSession.run(Unknown Source)
09:56	bartj	when I do a ":call vimclojure#Repl.New()" in vim
09:56	bartj	ie. trying to start a REPL on vim
10:05	AWizzArd	For just general pattern matching that also has pretty declarative rules fnparse is nice.
10:36	sayyestolife	this question might be bizare (and probably wrong) but, how can clojure be "truely" multithreaded when running on jvm? (is the jvm also multithreaded?)
10:36	Chouser	yes
10:37	Chouser	jvm provides access to real OS threads, and Clojure uses them.
10:40	Chouser	but a perfectly reasonable question. :-)
10:43	sayyestolife	oh okay, cool :)
10:52	AWizzArd	Is there a way in JSwat (4.4) to watch some specific variables? The default view shows me everything, but my clojure vars are deeply hidden into class members of arreys of hashtables of arrays of values, and so on.
10:55	AWizzArd	I can step through my program, which is nice, but don't see why it goes a specific route and how values change. The real values are not practically visible.
12:00	AWizzArd	Is there in contrib already a text/repl based stepper?
14:06	dysinger	sup
14:09	Raynes	Hi.
14:13	danlarkin	howdy
14:18	sayyestolife	it seems like the 'cond' in clojure doesn't work quite the same way as the one in c-lisp?
14:20	hiredman	among many things
14:20	sayyestolife	well, is there a way of having a similar cond in clojure?
14:21	sayyestolife	the api doc didn't give me much of a clue of how to use clojures cond
14:21	hiredman	,(doc cond)
14:21	clojurebot	"([& clauses]); Takes a set of test/expr pairs. It evaluates each test one at a time. If a test returns logical true, cond evaluates and returns the value of the corresponding expr and doesn't evaluate any of the other tests or exprs. (cond) returns nil."
14:21	hiredman	,(cond (= 1 1) :foo :else :bar)
14:21	clojurebot	:foo
14:22	sayyestolife	thanks
14:22	hiredman	I have not really used cl, but I believe the main difference is you don't wrap tests and expressions in their own set of parens
14:22	sayyestolife	oh
14:23	sayyestolife	that was it, thanks!
14:23	hiredman	so if (= 1 1) is true then the result of the above cond is :foo
14:23	hiredman	:else is just a convention, you can use anyhing non-nil as the final clause
14:23	sayyestolife	ok
14:24	hiredman	,(cond (= 1 3) :foo \F :bar)
14:24	clojurebot	:bar
14:24	hiredman	well, non-nil and non-false
14:24	lenst	,(or nil false)
14:24	clojurebot	false
14:25	hiredman	,(or false nil)
14:25	clojurebot	nil
15:06	ChrisPS	hello all
15:09	drewr	hi
15:16	sayyestolife	I just made my first clojure app, may I be so rude that I'd request some comments on it? http://pastebin.com/d5c8bf086
15:17	arohner_	sayyestolife: it looks fine
15:18	Chouser	uses mutual recursion
15:19	Chouser	it won't load in a fresh repl without (declare guess-the-number) first, but I wonder if mutual recursion is the best way to go.
15:19	sayyestolife	Chouser hmm how would you structure it then?
15:20	drewr	a single loop would suffice
15:20	Chouser	not sure. maybe a single loop/recur?
15:21	Chouser	or reduce on (repeatedly read-line)
15:21	Chouser	ok, I don't really recommend the latter in the case. :-)
15:21	drewr	reduce with side-effects?
15:21	drewr	:-)
15:22	Chouser	I've actually used (repeatedly #(.read f)) a few times -- it can work quite nicely.
15:22	hiredman	yes it can
15:23	Chouser	sayyestolife: but it works! congrats. :-)
15:23	sayyestolife	thanks! :)
15:25	Chouser	yeah, I think since the heart of your program is the guess loop, I'd try to do that with a single local loop. If you want to factor out some code, use a different tack.
15:25	Chouser	maybe store the messages in a separate hash so they don't clutter up the logic in the loop. or something.
15:27	sayyestolife	mkay
16:40	technomancy	when you see something like Text.class() in Java, what does it mean?
16:40	technomancy	isn't Text already a class?
16:40	technomancy	err; assuming Text is a class. =)
16:40	Chouser	technomancy: it's now they get the instance of Class
16:41	technomancy	Chouser: so (say) when you reference String, that's not an instance of Class?
16:41	technomancy	or not in Java at least?
16:41	Chouser	I'm not sure, but I guess you can't just say Class foo = Text;
16:42	ozzilee	technomancy: I'm pretty sure it's mostly just a syntactic kludge.
16:42	Chouser	you'd have to say Class foo = Text.class();
16:42	technomancy	ozzilee: so it's probably unnecessary in Clojure then?
16:42	ozzilee	technomancy: Yeah, I think it is (unnecessary).
16:42	Chouser	in clojure you'd just use the word Text as an expression
16:42	Chousuke	,(.class "foo")
16:42	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: class for class java.lang.String
16:42	technomancy	what a mess of a language. =)
16:42	Chousuke	hmm.
16:42	hiredman	I know Class has a getClass method
16:42	Chouser	,Integer
16:42	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
16:42	hiredman	never heard of the class method
16:42	Chousuke	(class Integer)
16:42	Chousuke	,(class Integer)
16:42	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
16:43	ataggart	,(.getClass "foo")
16:43	clojurebot	java.lang.String
16:43	hiredman	,(class (resolve (symbol "Integer")))
16:43	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
16:43	Chousuke	but String.class is special syntax in Java to get the class object I think
16:43	ataggart	(class String)
16:43	hiredman	yeah
16:43	ataggart	,(class String)
16:43	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
16:43	hiredman	but you don't call it like a method
16:43	hiredman	String.class()
16:43	Chouser	it's pretty amazing how little #clojure knows about Java
16:44	Chousuke	:)
16:44	ataggart	String.class() isn't valid java anyway
16:44	technomancy	sorry, no parens on that.
16:44	hiredman	hey, I am in #java too
16:45	ataggart	why?
16:45	Chouser	I guess #clojure probably knows more about java than #java does about clojure.
16:45	technomancy	Chouser: every time I try to read something that explains basic Java concepts it just numbs my brain. I literally can't proceed.
16:45	Chouser	technomancy: heh
16:45	technomancy	it's like my brain is trying to protect itself
16:45	Chousuke	basic java concepts? like whaT?
16:46	technomancy	dependency injection is the classic example.
16:46	Chousuke	hm
16:46	ataggart	DI isn't really java per se
16:46	Chousuke	I don't think that's a basic java concept.
16:46	Chousuke	:P
16:46	technomancy	I can't even comprehend the basic problem it's trying to solve, much less how it works.
16:46	technomancy	but I'm OK with that.
16:46	ataggart	avoiding tight coupling between implementations
16:47	drewr	technomancy: +1
16:48	Chousuke	sounds like they just need higher-order functions :/
16:48	ataggart	bear in mind this is within the context of java, not a functional language
16:49	ataggart	also makes it easy to swap out implementations without the caller caring
16:52	hiredman	I am by no means a fan of Java, but I fidn the level of disgust regarding it far out of porportion to how horrible it is
16:52	mblinn	yeah the need for such things seems to pretty much disappear in more expressive languages
16:53	Chousuke	hiredman: I found java rather pleasant, coming from C++ :P
16:55	ataggart	hiredman: I can't tell whether you think the level of disgust is too small or too great ;)
16:56	hiredman	too great
16:56	hiredman	it's not like java eats babies (very often)
16:57	Chousuke	I guess a lot of the disgust comes from the perception that all java apps are of substandard quality (because many of them are)
16:57	mblinn	yeah, it's the 90% of everything is crap rule
16:57	Chousuke	I think java's UI toolkits make it worse though.
16:58	Chousuke	it's easy to make a java GUI program that doesn't fit well in any system.
16:58	drewr	and because it's so ubiquitous, 90% is a very large sample
16:58	ataggart	I'm not sure what a "java app" is, but I use several dozen open source java tools and libraries. They serve my purposes very well
16:58	Chousuke	so even if the code is good, it'll still look like crap.
16:59	ataggart	90% of java apps with a UI makes up about 5% of the java stuff out there
16:59	Chousuke	there are pleasant exceptions too though, like Cyberduck on OS X.
16:59	Chousuke	I didn't even know it was java until I took a look at the source :P
16:59	drewr	Chousuke: I suspect the good apps like that hide their Java so well that people don't realize it's Java
16:59	Chousuke	heh, yeah
17:00	Chousuke	Cyberduck isn't portable java though.
17:00	Chousuke	it uses Cocoa bindings for its UI.
17:00	drewr	DBVisualizer is another one (although it requires JDBC knowledge to use)
17:00	ataggart	judging java by the ui apps that are written in it is... less than representative.
17:01	drewr	ataggart: those were examples of good apps
17:01	ataggart	my point is that a huge proponderance of java is running without any ui whatsoever, namelyon the server
17:01	ataggart	and much of it is very well done
17:02	drewr	my problem with Java started when I had to maintain some Struts/JSP coming from a Perl background
17:02	drewr	just seemed way too heavy
17:02	ataggart	well, that's a separate issue from the language
17:02	Chousuke	ataggart: I think Java's reputation got another hit here in Finland when one of our banks, as a result of a merger, replaced their fully working and cross-platform compatible web banking solution with a java-based piece of crap that worked well for no-one.
17:03	drewr	ataggart: true, but a language is inseparable from its ecosystem, and the ecosystem at a lot of Java shops sucks
17:03	ataggart	bad shops are bad. can't do much about that
17:03	Chousuke	ataggart: the amount of fail was epic.
17:03	ataggart	if anything I would imaine that the distribution of code quality to volume is a result of java being somewhat more approachable than some functional languages
17:04	slashus2	Chousuke: So the software didn't replace the old software completely? Usability wise..
17:04	ataggart	namely java has a huge amount of code spread around the quality axis (because one can write working, yet crappy code in java)
17:04	Chousuke	slashus2: I don't know, but my impression is that it was a complete overhaul
17:04	ataggart	whereas only the top few academic and hardcore CSers are doing stuff in "better" but more esoteric languages
17:05	ataggart	so, higher quality, but very little of it to see
17:05	Chousuke	http://kks.cabal.fi/SampoApplet this page collected some of the fail found in the java client applet.
17:05	ataggart	I dont care what other people do
17:05	ataggart	so long as my java code is done correctly
17:06	Chousuke	I like the public static final int RandomErrorNotEnoughRandom = 1;
17:06	drewr	ataggart: none of us is arguing that Java is bad; we were just reminiscing about our bad tastes :-)
17:07	ataggart	java related stuff I use on a regular basis: eclipse, ant, ivy, tomcat, apache-commons-, hibernate, log4j, spring, aspectj, various MQs, several XL related libraries, and so on
17:08	Chousuke	eclipse is pretty good
17:08	Chousuke	it's not even that slow anymore.
17:08	ataggart	yup, and they had the god sense to not deal with Sun's ui library
17:08	ataggart	*good
17:08	Chousuke	the look'n'feel could still be better though.
17:09	ataggart	intellij felt snappier when I played with it, but I dislike how things are laid out
17:09	ataggart	plus the ecosystem aroudn eclipse is better
17:10	ataggart	alas, I don't have anu opportunity to do real work in clojure
18:06	eevar	,(doc for)
18:06	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost fastest, and nested coll-exprs can refer to bindings created in prior binding-forms. Supported modifiers are: :let [binding-form expr ...], :while test, :when test.
18:08	kotarak	oh. Welcome back, clojurebot. How was your vacation?
18:08	AWizzArd	~max people
18:08	clojurebot	max people is 164
18:17	hiredman	http://ejohn.org/blog/html-5-parsing/ slightly off-topic, but the page contains the word Java...
18:27	grrrt	Hi! Are there guidelines for documenting clojure code? And is it possible to generate html from code docs?
18:28	grrrt	doh... I just noticed "gen-html-docs" in clojure contrib. I'll look at that before asking questions :)
18:38	Knekk_	,(+ 1 2)
18:38	clojurebot	3
18:38	Knekk_	neat-o
18:55	arohner_	I have a collection of elements that I want to logical and. Is there a better way than (every? identity coll)?
19:00	arohner_	it would be nice if (doc ns) produced the doc strings for all public functions in the namespace
19:00	arohner_	lol
19:00	arohner_	,(doc docs)
19:00	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.ns-utils/docs;[[nsname]]; Prints documentation for the public vars in a namespace"
19:01	arohner_	of course...
19:08	technomancy	it must be hard to be a scala newbie. you have to choose between reading "Programming Scala", reading "Programming Scala", and reading "Programming in Scala"
21:22	hiredman	~exceptions
21:22	clojurebot	http://paste.lisp.org/display/74305
21:53	notostraca_	Hi, room
21:54	danlarkin	Hi, notostraca_
21:54	notostraca_	I am trying to learn clojure
21:54	notostraca_	in particular, I am trying to learn clojure to use on an IRC bot
21:54	danlarkin	how's it going?
21:54	notostraca_	well it is going pretty well
21:55	notostraca_	on a side-note i did a little experimenting with fibonacci sequences
21:55	notostraca_	and i got the 1,000,000th after a while
21:55	notostraca_	but my question is esoteric
21:56	notostraca_	i want to use the PircBot IRC bot
21:56	notostraca_	written in java
21:56	notostraca_	but it uses java threads
21:56	notostraca_	and I don't know if there are bad interactions with the STM?
21:57	danlarkin	there's a mature user of PircBot already, clojurebot
21:57	danlarkin	his code is open source
21:57	danlarkin	clojurebot: where are you?
21:57	clojurebot	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
21:57	notostraca_	nice!
21:57	danlarkin	I don't know if that uses the STM at all
21:58	notostraca_	well my irc bot is meant to moderate a "tabletop" game
21:58	notostraca_	but to do more than just roll dice
21:59	notostraca_	so it has to separate game commands from normal chat
22:00	danlarkin	mmmhmm
22:00	notostraca_	because the whole routine of "Bot: it is your turn, Bill. What is your action? a, b, or c", "Bill: b", "Bot: Targeting what character? a, b, or c", "Bill: a"...
22:00	danlarkin	yeah I think that's a good use case for clojure
22:00	notostraca_	gets to take up a lot of chatroom space
22:01	notostraca_	so i am not sure about a lot of things about concurrency
22:01	hiredman	3d6
22:01	clojurebot	6
22:01	JAS415	if i'm using :inline and :inline-arities, is there a way to make the function inline for any arity?
22:01	notostraca_	10d99
22:01	clojurebot	465
22:01	hiredman	3d6
22:01	clojurebot	16
22:02	JAS415	i cast magicmissile
22:02	notostraca_	at the darkness?
22:02	JAS415	yes, at the darkness
22:03	notostraca_	you hit the darkness for NaN damage
22:03	JAS415	nice
22:03	JAS415	1e7d6
22:03	JAS415	hm
22:03	notostraca_	1.5d7
22:03	JAS415	any ideas about inline and inline arities
22:03	JAS415	?
22:04	notostraca_	& args...
22:04	hiredman	the bot uses a regex to look for dice rolls
22:04	hiredman	JAS415: I don't think you can inline arbitrary arities
22:04	JAS415	that's too bad it would be useful for fixing +
22:04	hiredman	1d6+20
22:04	clojurebot	22
22:05	JAS415	hmm
22:05	JAS415	well it takes a set
22:05	JAS415	maybe i can make it take a really big set?
22:06	hiredman	well
22:07	hiredman	,^+
22:07	clojurebot	nil
22:07	hiredman	bah
22:07	hiredman	,^#'+
22:07	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name +, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 549, :arglists ([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]), :inline-arities #{2}, :inline #<core$fn__3946 clojure.core$fn__3946@90ebfe>, :doc "Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0."}
22:08	JAS415	nope it didn't like that
22:08	JAS415	ah becauserange didn't exist
22:09	hiredman	I am not sure how :inline is suposed to work
22:09	JAS415	it is a function that returns a list of lists that expands out into the body
22:10	JAS415	example you can do this:
22:11	JAS415	(defn +
22:11	JAS415	"Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0."
22:11	JAS415	{:inline (fn ([x y] `(. clojure.lang.Numbers (add ~x ~y)))
22:11	JAS415	([x y & more] (reduce (fn [a b] `(. clojure.lang.Numbers (add ~a ~b))) `(. clojure.lang.Numbers (add ~x ~y)) more)))
22:11	JAS415	:inline-arities #{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13}}
22:11	JAS415	([] 0)
22:11	JAS415	([x] (cast Number x))
22:11	JAS415	([x y] (. clojure.lang.Numbers (add x y)))
22:11	JAS415	([x y & more]
22:11	JAS415	(reduce + (+ x y) more)))
22:12	JAS415	and then your math for (+ 1 (+ 2 (+ 3))) isn't any faster than (+ 1 2 3) because they are the same
22:12	JAS415	just i'd like it to inline for all arities
22:13	hiredman	you need a set of all natural numbers
22:13	hiredman	:P
22:13	JAS415	yup!
22:13	JAS415	:-)
22:13	hiredman	clojurebot: set?
22:13	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
22:13	JAS415	except i guess i need to build it from java primitives?
22:16	notostraca_	can you use lazy sets of all natural numbers?
22:16	notostraca_	are there any lazy sets???
22:17	hiredman	no
22:17	hiredman	I was sort of working on rule based sets
22:17	JAS415	you can coerce a lazy list to a set i think though
22:18	hiredman	I kind of doubt that
22:18	JAS415	hmm
22:18	JAS415	well i guess 1-20 should be enough for now?
22:18	JAS415	2-20
22:19	hiredman	http://paste.lisp.org/display/80355
22:20	hiredman	a big annoyance is many clojure.set operations work on the result of calling seq on the set
22:20	JAS415	ooo
22:20	JAS415	hmm
22:21	JAS415	well i guess i could do a proxy class on that which returns true as long as it is a number?
22:21	JAS415	i guess it would have to be a number within a range
22:31	notostraca_	hm
22:31	notostraca_	this looks bad for my usage of clojurebot
22:31	notostraca_	it still won't respond to my DCC request
22:31	notostraca_	so i don't know if it... can.
22:32	notostraca_	i bet it isn't able
22:32	hiredman	it won't
22:32	hiredman	clojurebot is uses pircbot
22:32	hiredman	and I never connected up the dcc bits
22:32	notostraca_	pircbot uses threads for dcc
22:32	hiredman	and?
22:32	notostraca_	are they compatible with clojure concurrency stuff?
22:33	hiredman	of course
22:33	notostraca_	oh good
22:33	notostraca_	i am just working my way through Programming Clojure, so I don't know most of this
22:34	hiredman	unless you need annotations, you can use anything java from clojure
22:34	notostraca_	nice
22:35	notostraca_	are there any good parsing libraries for clojure?
22:35	hiredman	fnparse is pretty nice
22:35	hiredman	clojurebot: parse?
22:35	clojurebot	parser is http://github.com/joshua-choi/fnparse/tree/master
22:35	hiredman	there is clj-peg too
22:35	hiredman	I have not used clj-peg