#clojure – 2009-06-17

2009-06-17

00:56	sverrej	How do I create a java.lang.reflect.Method from a Clojure function?
00:56	sverrej	I am using this Java lib that expects a Method object.
00:58	hiredman	erm
00:58	hiredman	clojure functions are not Methods
01:00	sverrej	I guess they have to be, at some level, to be able to work with Java?
01:00	hiredman	nope
01:01	sverrej	ok
01:01	hiredman	clojure functions are Objects
01:05	cp2	sverrej: perhaps the Method object you should be getting is FunctionClass.invoke(...)
01:06	sverrej	cp2: Yes, that's what I'm trying now.
01:24	sverrej	This seems to do the trick:
01:24	sverrej	(.
01:24	sverrej	(. (fn hello [] "hello") getClass)
01:24	sverrej	getMethod "run" nil)
01:24	sverrej	thank you
03:02	TheBusby	How do you "realize" a ratio into a Double?
03:04	hoeck	,(float 1/4)
03:04	TheBusby	hoeck: thank you!
03:05	hoeck	mhh, no clojurebot available :(
03:05	hoeck	TheBusby: np :)
03:08	frodef	How can I write a macro that implicitly uses a lexical variable?
03:08	hoeck	TheBusby: oh, I forgot there is also: (double 1/5)
03:09	frodef	I.e (let [x 1] (foo)), where (foo) expands to e.g. (+ 1 x)
03:09	hoeck	frodef: use ~'x in your expansion code
03:09	TheBusby	hoeck: perfect, thanks!
03:10	frodef	hoeck: perfect, thanks!
03:10	frodef	:)
03:11	hoeck	:)
03:14	TheBusby	is there anyway to "overload" the "+" operator for handing structs?
03:14	TheBusby	defmethod doesn't appear to be valid
03:14	zmyrgel	can clojure be used with android?
03:15	TheBusby	zmyrgel: yes, http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/cf9c928f0027836a
03:15	TheBusby	more details, http://riddell.us/tutorial/clojure_android/clojure_android.html
03:16	zmyrgel	uh, sweet :)
03:16	TheBusby	someone on the mailing list just got the REPL working too
03:16	TheBusby	IE, compile on the device
03:17	zmyrgel	I think coding clojure for android beats symbian c++
03:18	TheBusby	I suspect clojure is much slower than c++
03:18	TheBusby	I think android lets you compile C straight to ARM though for performance
03:19	hoeck	TheBusby: no, rhickey was not in favour of overloading the basic arithmetic primitives, IIRC, for perf reasons
03:20	TheBusby	ahh, I was hoping there might be a work around
03:20	hoeck	TheBusby: but you could (ns-unmap ns '+) and then use (defmulti + dispatch-fn) to create your own overloaded +
03:20	TheBusby	I need high performance + for handing doubles
03:20	TheBusby	all cake I guess
04:48	vika23	where can i find clojure.contrib.sql api's , it was there yesterday when i clicked the link "User Contribs" in clojure home page
04:49	Carkh	http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/w/list
04:50	vika23	Carkh : thanks , will bookmark it :)
04:50	Carkh	your one stop shop for every contrib needs =P
05:25	doug_	Is there any way to add type annotations to the keys of a struct?
05:26	jdz	why?
05:26	doug_	'cause I like type safety :-)
05:27	jdz	well, #java is --> that way
05:27	TheBusby	I wouldn't go that far
05:27	TheBusby	I'm not aware of any way to do it, but I could certainly see why you'd want to
05:29	doug_	jdz: I've just come from there :-) Seems an unnecessary restriction that I can annotate function parameters with types but not other points in the code.
05:29	jdz	doug_: you can
05:29	jdz	you annotate the code that uses the struct values
05:30	jdz	pulling out type information from structs would involve heavy type inferencing (or so it seems to me)
05:31	hoeck	doug_: the :tag metadata is only for the compiler to avoid reflection calls
05:31	jdz	otoh, it might be easier if the struct-maps could be treated as types as well
05:32	hoeck	doug_: but you could generate your own (typed) tuple class if you want to
05:32	doug_	alternatively, would be nice if structs could have validation functions attached to them.
05:32	doug_	hoeck: how would I do that?
05:33	hoeck	using genclass and a constructor
05:34	hoeck	probably extending c.l.APersistentMap
05:36	doug_	hoeck: okay, thanks.
05:38	hoeck	doug_: this is a good example of subclassing a hashmap: http://bitbucket.org/kotarak/lazymap/src/tip/src/de/kotka/lazymap/LazyMap.clj
05:43	doug_	hoeck: thanks. very useful
05:53	jdz	the lazy-map thing looks nice as a clojure coding exercise, but all the interface consists of macros; i think i'd prefer to use delay/force explicitly
05:59	hoeck	jdz: there are functions to create lazymaps too, look for lazy-hash-map, which takes a map of keys - delays
05:59	jdz	lazy-hash-map looks like a macro to me...
05:59	jdz	or you mean lazy-hash-map*?
06:00	hoeck	yes, right, the trailing star functions
06:00	jdz	this would actually make me even more nervous if i have to explicitly delay something, and then get it implicitly forced..
06:01	jdz	but maybe i just have not seen a nice real world use case for it
06:02	hoeck	well, its only forced upon retrieval via get or seq
06:03	hoeck	I'm using it to create indices over relations, to avoid calculating them all up front
06:04	jdz	well, but why not delay/force explicitly?
06:04	hoeck	by using the lazymap, i have a simple interface and only if I explicitly access it an index is created
06:05	hoeck	simplicity? the code accessing the indices doesn't bother that they are lazy
06:07	jdz	well that would be one function for me...
06:07	jdz	but yeah, if that makes your code simpler then it's good
06:30	Chousuke	I wonder how submitting patches is going to work. doesn't look like assembla allows commenting on tickets by non-team-members :/
06:44	eevar2	could someone review http://pastebin.com/m7595a52c ? -- don't know enough git to know what i'm doing ;)
06:51	Chousuke	I have never used filter-branch either :/
06:51	eevar2	i tried asking on #git, but no response in there
06:56	eevar2	rhickey: not sure if you like the idea, but I wrote up some recipes for separating clojurescipt into a new repo and removing it + clojureclr from contrib -- http://pastebin.com/m7595a52c
06:57	eevar2	just one disclaimer; my git-foo is fairly weak, it's just cobbled up from stuff i found using google
06:59	rhickey	eevar2: thanks, we'll have to get someone with git-fu in contrib to own that process
07:21	Chousuke	the problem with filter-branch is that it changes history.
07:22	Chousuke	so while it's okay for extracting ClojureCLR and ClojureScript into their own repos, it shouldn't be used to modify contrib, because contrib is already public. :/
07:23	Chousuke	eevar2: look at --subdirectory-filter in git-filter-branch
07:24	Chousuke	oh, wait, never mind. you did :)
07:26	eevar2	rewriting history sounds bad, yea
07:27	eevar2	as I said, my git-fu is weak :)
07:28	eevar2	clojureclr shouldn't be extracted from contrib, btw
07:29	eevar2	there are ~5 clojureclr commits in contrib, better clone from dmillers github repo
07:36	frodef	any guides anywhere on how to wrap up your .clj into a .jar (or .exe)?
07:36	jdz	one easy way would be to use NetBeans
07:36	jdz	like, make a dummy project and see how id does it
07:37	jdz	then you can also look at clojure/clojure-contrib
07:37	jdz	and to answer your question -- no i don't know of any guides :)
07:37	frodef	ok, thanks :)
07:38	cemerick	frodef: you can either just jar up your source directory (if you're going to be loading .clj files from the jar using clojure), or you can compile everything (say, using clojure.lang.Compile from ant), and then jar up the resulting classes-dir
07:40	frodef	cemerik: right, thanks.
07:41	frodef	here's something antsy I think: http://www.lithinos.com/Compiling-Clojure-applications-using-Ant.html
07:42	cemerick	yeah, that's the basic idea. I keep meaning to write up our ant process, which is nice insofar as it automatically determines what namespaces are available to be compiled (what you linked to and other things I've seen require one to manually track that somewhere)
07:43	frodef	I just have a single .clj and a single namespace, so I'm hoping I can copy manually for now :)
07:49	frodef	so.. it's the case that a namespace foo.bar.baz must reside in foo/bar/baz on the file-system?
07:54	achim	frodef: foo/bar/baz.clj, right
07:54	achim	(doc require) says foo/bar/baz/baz.clj, but that's the old way, AFAIK
07:55	frodef	achim: thanks.. this is the Java Way, I gather.
07:59	cemerick	yes, the docs for require are out of date. I think Chousuke or Chouser was fixing that.
08:00	frodef	I'm getting the jar wrapped up, but running it yields a NullPointerException..
08:06	frodef	I'm doing (ns foo.bar.baz (:gen-class)) and (defn -main ..) shouldn't that make my class have a main?
08:07	hoeck	frodef: I believe you need (:genclass :main true) too in your ns-clause
08:08	frodef	yes, but the doc says :main true should be default.
08:08	cemerick	yes, :main true is the default, you don't need to specify it
08:08	cemerick	frodef: paste your NPE
08:09	frodef	cemerick: sorry, what's that?
08:09	cemerick	hrm, no bot...
08:09	cemerick	frodef: paste the NPE you're getting into paste.lisp.org (or some other pastebin) so we can see it in its entirety
08:10	frodef	right, but what's "NPE"? :)
08:10	cemerick	NullPointerException
08:10	frodef	ah.. not so used to those :)
08:10	cemerick	frodef: :-) From which foreign land are you coming?
08:11	frodef	it's a land far far away..
08:11	frodef	..where NullPointerExceptions don't require a TLA..
08:12	cemerick	heh. I can sympathize.
08:12	Chouser	rhickey: I've been assuming we wanted to stick with the currect process of getting approval before creating a ticket for a bug or feature, but realized last night that's not the rails process at all.
08:15	rhickey	Chouser: thanks for getting that started! I was just tweaking it. Yeah, we'll need to add a reference to https://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure-contrib/support/tickets, which has those guidelines
08:16	Chouser	oh, great. Then I'll leave you to it. Sorry I didn't get very far.
08:16	frodef	amazingly, it seems cut'n paste stopped workling here..
08:20	frodef	http://paste.lisp.org/+1R9D
08:21	frodef	I'd be grateful for any clues..
08:21	jdz	looks like something involving properties (like maybe build.properties file)?
08:22	frodef	I thought that was only involved at compile-time?
08:22	cemerick	yeah, something like...one of your imported classes loading a properties file at static init time, but the properties file isn't in the classpath?
08:22	jdz	well, you are running this with ant, or so it looks
08:23	frodef	same thing with java -jar app.jar
08:23	frodef	I don't know of anything loading properties.
08:23	cemerick	and your app.jar contains everything you want your clj file and its dependencies to use?
08:24	jdz	my Java/jar fu is very limited, too, but maybe meta-inf file in the jar is missing or bad
08:24	frodef	well.. can't say I know for sure.
08:24	frodef	jdz: it looked reasonable to me.
08:24	cemerick	frodef: ah -- clojure itself is failing to init, as it can't find its clojure/version.properties file
08:25	cemerick	looks like the app.jar doesn't fully include clojure.jar
08:25	frodef	cemerick: right, there's no version.properties in there (never heard of it before..)
08:26	cemerick	no, the properties file is included in clojure.jar -- you need to either have clojure.jar on your classpath, or it needs to be merged into your application's jar
08:27	frodef	cemerick: I understood... here's the line from the build.xml I ripped: <zipfileset src="${clojure_jar}" includes="*/.class" />
08:27	cemerick	that includes means it's excluding the properties file that clojure requires
08:27	cemerick	I'd just remove the includes attribute
08:27	cemerick	(which should include everything)
08:29	frodef	cemerick: that did the trick! thanks so much!
08:29	cemerick	frodef: np :-)
08:30	frodef	slightly strange that this Lithinos guy wasn't bitten by this.
08:30	frodef	(who wrote and blogged the build.xml)
08:30	cemerick	he wrote that before clojure's jar contained properties files
08:30	frodef	ah.. I see.. :)
08:46	Chousuke	rhickey: do you intend to add every person with a CA as a member to the clojure assembla space? or is that possible without giving git push privileges?
08:47	rhickey	Chousuke: considering that right this moment
08:48	Xcalibor	greetings
08:49	Chousuke	Assembla seems a bit confusing. I don't see any way to submit a ticket :/
08:49	cemerick	what were the incantations to emit and then apply at patch file that maintained multiple commits and authoring info?
08:49	cemerick	s/at/a
08:49	rhickey	as a watcher you can submit a ticket on the support tab
08:49	Chousuke	git format-patch --stdout > foo.patch
08:49	Chousuke	git am < foo.patch
08:49	rhickey	cemerick: writing that up now
08:50	Chousuke	hm
08:50	cemerick	Chousuke: thanks :-)
08:50	Chousuke	forgot the branch name from git format-patch
08:50	Chousuke	just add the branch you want to generate a patch against.
08:50	Chousuke	why do you need to use git format-patch for that?
08:51	cemerick	rhickey: so the patch file approach will remain for bugfixes?
08:55	Chousuke	assembla permissions look a bit coarse-grained :/
08:56	frodef	Suddenly I'm getting "java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var no.selvaag.housedesigner.viewer/component-swing-tree-node is unbound." after I've compiled my .clj into a fresh clojure (in my emacs IDE). Same thing seems to happen with the ant build. This goes away if I manually compile that function (again) in emacs..?
08:58	frodef	this error comes at run-time, when the function is being called.
08:58	Chousuke	maybe you're using it before it's defined.
08:59	frodef	don't think so.. I compile the whole thing before I call anything.
09:00	Chousuke	I think the order still matters.
09:00	Chousuke	hmm.
09:00	cemerick	frodef: just because something is compiled doesn't mean it's been loaded (e.g. by require or use)
09:00	frodef	yes, I get compilation errors if the ordering isn't good.
09:01	frodef	cmerick: but everything is in the same file, this particular function is just one of many, and the others seemt to be defined ok.
09:01	frodef	well, this function is recursive, but it's been like that for some time now and worked just fine.
09:02	frodef	this all worked fine before the .jar venture, and I don't believe I've changed anything besides adding the :gen-class and defn -main.
09:03	cemerick	you can paste the exception
09:03	rhickey	cemerick: we need to get some experience with the ticket system. I don't like that github pull requests go nowhere useful, so they are definitely out. We might be able to point to branches/tags in other repos as patch sources, but it leave the dev history at risk, as a ticket might point at a repo someone has pulled down - what was their patch?
09:03	eevar2	possible to subscribe to clojure-dev@googlegroups.com without 'being a member'?
09:04	rhickey	but I want to leverage git's notion of history for bigger things
09:04	cemerick	rhickey: is it really not enough to require that pull requests specify a SHA?
09:04	frodef	Very weird, now the error occurs even when I do the exact same thing I did before the jar stuff, and at that point I'm rather sure it all worked well. hmpf.
09:05	Chouser	eevar2: I was looking for that yesterday, and didn't see a way to get emails from the group without being a member. :-/
09:05	Chouser	eevar2: hopefully I just missed it somehow
09:06	Chouser	eevar2: there is an RSS feed that could be leveraged by a feed-to-email tool of some sort, but it would seem weird if that's the only way.
09:06	eevar2	Chouser: indeed
09:07	rhickey	cemerick: a sha in their root implies they've folded their patch into whatever their root notion is, including any other merging they've done - at risk of being a lot less clean then a branch from some master repo baseline
09:08	rhickey	i.e. doing it right means mirroring their local branch server-side
09:08	rhickey	at least that's my understanding
09:08	cemerick	well, there's nothing wrong with that, is there?
09:08	rhickey	cemerick: with what?
09:09	cemerick	requiring that people create a branch for a particular bugfix (based on a recent mainline), push that branch to github, and then send the pull request with the SHA into that branch
09:10	rhickey	not at all, sha into branch would be the requirement, now seems like a much higher bar than format-patch for a bugfix
09:10	frodef	It seems there are 3-4 functions in the middle of my (single) .clj that doesn't get compiled/loaded at all the first time I load the file..
09:10	cemerick	There's a lot of customs to adopt there, but surely not more than pushing plain text files around, and we end up keeping everything in the git-word.
09:10	cemerick	s/word/world
09:10	frodef	(with no apparent error )
09:11	cemerick	rhickey: that doesn't seem onerous at all, IMO
09:11	rhickey	cemerick: really, format-patch does keep the commits and identity, the only difference is that the history is the master repo's history, i.e. the patch happened when it was applied on master
09:11	frodef	my goodness.. there was a missing closing paren.. :)
09:12	cemerick	OK; it was my understanding that merges in git were generally less prone to problems than, say, application of diffs from patch files.
09:12	rhickey	as bug fixes aren't long-running development efforts that require intervening coordinated merges (i.e. they just get rebased before submission), there isn't any loss to patches AFAICS
09:13	rhickey	cemerick: definitely true, I made the exact same argument initially, and I definitely don't want to lose out on git's sophistication re: merging
09:13	Chousuke	cemerick: Linux kernel development revolves entirely around sending patches. git is very good at handling them :)
09:14	cemerick	Chousuke: well, patch management is an entirely separate topic of expertise in that community from what I gather, which scares the living hell out of me :-)
09:14	Chouser	if those applying patches to the repos (that is, rhickey) find there are frequently merge issues with patch files, the policy can certainly be changed later.
09:14	Chousuke	granted, at the end stuff gets pulled into the mainline from git branches set up by subsystem maintainers.
09:15	Chouser	oh, and contrib-collab'rs
09:15	rhickey	committers, generally
09:16	Chouser	ah, that's a better name.
09:16	rhickey	although git now makes everyone a local committer...
09:16	Chousuke	yeah
09:16	Chousuke	you could call them git lords :P
09:16	cemerick	I'm sure I'm far from "normal" in that I've never really trusted patch files, which is why I keep beating this dead horse. :-/
09:17	Chouser	user; CA'ed user (?); contrib-commiter; rhickey
09:17	rhickey	cemerick: I certainly wouldn't want any non-trivial change as a patch
09:18	cemerick	rhickey: I guess that's where the worry is for me. When does a change become non-trivial? What's the levenshtein distance threshold? ;-)
09:19	rhickey	user/contributor/committer/rhickey
09:19	cemerick	continues*
09:20	rhickey	cemerick: I don't know, there's not going to be a hard rule - if we get a huge scary patch, there's nothing stopping us from saying give me a repo pointer, and it should be easy to produce or the submission is suspect anyway
09:21	rhickey	cemerick: I think you have to flip it over - for a simple change from a less well-known source, do you want to trust all of their prior merges?
09:21	rhickey	or check them?
09:22	cemerick	rhickey: wouldn't you be facing the same check when working with a patch file?
09:22	cemerick	s/check/choice
09:22	rhickey	if there weren't any merges, then the patch is rebased off master repo and there's no loss, at least with format-patch
09:23	rhickey	has commit messages and authorship
09:23	cemerick	I'm not following what that has to do with trusting the changes involved. anything can be in a patchfile.
09:23	rhickey	cemerick: no, because the patch recipe requires rebase first, diff off master repo
09:23	cemerick	hrm
09:25	rhickey	contrast with, say, the chunks stuff I'm doing in a branch, might pull bugfixes across several times while working over time, I wouldn't want to rebase that and trash its history, creating a big patch
09:26	Chousuke	rhickey: rebasing doesn't necessarily destroy history
09:27	Chousuke	it just takes your commits that are on top of the original parent and applies them like a patch series on top of the new parent.
09:27	Chousuke	in the process you can merge them into one big commit, but you don't have to
09:28	rhickey	Chousuke: sure it does, because when you made those edits the world was different, and your decision-making process can no longer be observed, rebasing pretends you made them later
09:28	rhickey	it's not simply a matter of keeping commits as individuals
09:28	Chousuke	hmm, true
09:30	Chousuke	so, when working on something, you should avoid rebasing. When you're done, decide whether the changes should be rebased or just merged?
09:30	doug_	I'm frequently finding that I am mapping a collection and then dropping any nils in the resulting collection using (filter identity (map fn coll)). Is there a function or macro that encapsulates this or am I missing some other approach?
09:32	Chousuke	achim: originally it was.
09:32	Chousuke	achim: nowadays it has porcelain included :)
09:35	Chousuke	there are still many low-level "primitives" in $DESTDIR/libexec/git-core/
09:35	Chousuke	or plumbing, as the git guys call it.
09:36	cemerick	doug_: (remove nil? ...) is a little more concise, but there's no built-in fn for mapping and dropping nils (AFAIK)
09:37	Chousuke	(remove nil? ...) is also safer if your function happens to return a Boolean false :P
09:37	rhickey	cemerick: anyway, I'm not trying to beat a horse, or you :), but it is interesting to me. My first inclination was definitely - yay - no patches, do pulls, merges etc, yet what I see in public projects is a lot of patch-driven stuff
09:37	asbjxrn	gen-class only does things during compilation, how would I create a dummy class from the repl for example?
09:37	doug_	cemerik: not much more concise, but a lot more explicit and therefore probably a preferable idiom. thanks.
09:38	Chousuke	rhickey: I think for small things, pulls are simply a bit too heavyweight :)
09:38	rhickey	Chousuke: cemerick disagrees
09:39	asbjxrn	(Context: the java.util.prefs api requires a class passed to it when creating a preferences object. I thought of creating a my.namespace.foo class and passing that)
09:41	Chousuke	asbjxrn: make an anonymous function and call .getClass on it? :P
09:42	Chousuke	user=> (.getClass #())
09:42	Chousuke	user$eval__2625$fn__2627
09:42	asbjxrn	Ah, sounds like a plan.
09:43	cemerick	rhickey: nah, I'm the one that keeps going to the well.
09:45	cemerick	I generally think that any plain-text-driven process is ripe for improvement, though, and I see something (git) that offers a different path, so unless the end goals aren't obtained, then I'll always prefer that different path.
09:45	rhickey	cemerick: what about the tracking issues? the project becomes dependent on a network of repos
09:46	cemerick	rhickey: at a minimum, it's a network of two repos (your local + github)
09:46	cemerick	but it's not like your repo is going to get affected if I decide to delete mine on github
09:46	rhickey	cemerick: if you delete you repo no one can try your as-yet-unapplied patch
09:47	cemerick	rhickey: oh, I thought you were worried about applied changesets disappearing if a repo was deleted
09:48	rhickey	a repo pointer is dependent on the repo, a patch isn't
09:48	rhickey	whatever that dependency implies
09:48	cemerick	if someone deletes their repo, or rebases it so the SHA indicated in a pull request is gone, whatever, then their patch doesn't get applied
09:49	cemerick	I guess I'm not tuned into the repercussions of not being able to accrue patches (especially if there's an expectation that they be up to date w.r.t. your repo's mainline)
09:49	yason	At least for me, patches are as simple as it gets unless you know git inside out (I don't).
09:49	rys	I think that problem is likely to be very rare, and solved by discipline. Patches work for bigger projects because they're usually also offered in a manner of ways along with git. So tarballs, .debs with source, or whatever, so a patch to a mailing list is sometimes most appropriate
09:50	rys	Accept them, sure, but I'd make a pull request the preferable way if it was me
09:51	Chousuke	I think most important now is to establish some kind of workflow to get started. it can change later if there are problems.
09:51	rhickey	cemerick: I guess as much as I also hate text files and diffs, I am wary of a project being constituted of a network of repos not under its supervision, vs say in a shop, where all devs' repos were 'owned'
09:52	rhickey	in the latter case I would never use patches
09:53	cemerick	rhickey: I'm still not grokking the network-of-repos thing. There's your repo, which is authoritative, and a bunch of others. There would be some pile of pull requests, which you can take (or not) at your discretion, apply, and now your repo includes those changesets.
09:53	cemerick	It's not like people would need to do local merges from multiple repos in order to get clojure.
09:54	baetis-fly	re: workflow. I use a modified version of http://blog.mhartl.com/2008/10/14/setting-up-your-git-repositories-for-open-source-projects-at-github/ to (barely) contribute to compojure. Would work equally well if using patches or pull requests. I branch for each fix/feature though. It's more complex, but it matches the command line experience more (origin is the project, not you github fork).
09:55	Chouser	github pull requests are not good, independent of the patch/branch question.
09:55	Chousuke	I also have two remotes in my local clojure clone. "origin" is rhickey's public repo, and "public" is my own
09:55	rhickey	cemerick: but the contributions won't have been made until they are pulled, if they disappear you can't go back to them (although with git you might be able to recreate them), you can't directly examine them - a lot of times I can look at a diff and say - no way, now I'll have to branch, pull and diff myself first
09:55	baetis-fly	Chousuke: that's the way I do it was well, but I'm not sure that's how most people use it. It's certainly not what the github docs would have you do.
09:57	cemerick	rhickey: does it really come down to disappearing branches/SHAs specified in pull requests?
09:57	cemerick	if so, I'm not sure that's a common-enough problem to worry about
09:57	rys	That'd be terribly rare. You could even automate pulling those requests into a repo just in case
10:00	rhickey	cemerick: I'm not sure anyone has any idea at this point, being so early with git and no large projects doing what you are advising
10:01	rhickey	as I said, in a closed shop I would never use patches
10:02	rhickey	but having a project's history depend on a network of unsupervised repos seems shaky
10:02	cemerick	I guess I would say that the same metaphors should apply.
10:02	cemerick	esp. since clojure's community is relatively small
10:02	rhickey	all our ticket system will have is joe:12345, fred:w7e3h4
10:03	cemerick	rhickey: again, why would your repo's history depend on any other repos at any time?
10:03	Chouser	cemerick: what's the danger again in using patches? Just the inconsitency?
10:03	cemerick	Chouser: eh, no danger, it's a well-worn system, of course. I just have an unbridled and probably irrational hatred of patch files.
10:04	cemerick	I probably should just shut up, but rhickey is very accommodating. :-)
10:05	rhickey	cemerick: It's because I agree with your motivation, but found no one doing it that way
10:06	rys	Well, there's no harm in supporting more than one way to get code into a repo. It just seems sane to make that via the git infrastructure you just chose, to take advantage of the change in dev model it affords you
10:07	rys	err, make the preferred way even
10:07	cemerick	I yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from pixeltards.com (rys)
10:08	Chouser	I've never had a problem with patch files, and the (perhaps remote) possibility of trying to merge from a repo only to find it doesn't work (the repo's gone, the service is down, the user has been kicked out of the system, whatever) seems to outweigh any strikes against attaching git-formatted patches to tickets.
10:08	rhickey	so, here are some of the drawbacks to pulls again: I can't see what the patch is proposing without going through the hassle of applying it, outstanding patches really aren't in the system, there's no record of the actual contribution in the ticket system
10:08	rys	You can fetch and diff before merge
10:09	rys	pull is fetch + merge combined
10:09	rhickey	rys: vs look at the ticket
10:09	rys	vs look at the commit log for the commit?
10:10	rys	Ticket might have more info, sure, but you could just append the commit id and pull request there too
10:10	rhickey	rys: that's just a message, not code
10:10	rhickey	the patch is readable
10:10	jackdempsey	you can get the code from the commit log
10:10	jackdempsey	if thats what you'd want to see?
10:10	rys	So support patches :)
10:11	rys	But I'd make pulls preferable if it was me. It's less grief in my experience
10:11	Chouser	cemerick_away: come back, we're not done disagreeing!!! ;-)
10:11	jackdempsey	haha
10:12	achim	a git noob qeustion: i issued a "git pull" and now have the clojure repo. "git branch" says there's just a master branch, while github shows me a "chunked" branch, among others. how to get that?
10:12	cemerick_away	Chouser: heh, we can argue more later, I've got some handball to play :-)
10:12	rys	We use the pull model where I work, on projects where the maintainer is in your position in terms of the number of repos he's likely to get requests from (not a huge amount), and it's less effort than automating patch infrastructure (again, in my experience)
10:12	baetis-fly	achim: git branch -a
10:12	jackdempsey	fwiw achim its a 'git clone' to get the repo....pull is a combination of fetch+merge
10:13	jackdempsey	and if you want to work on a branch locally that's based off a remote branch, you can do "git checkout -b my_chunked origin/chunked"
10:14	rys	If you do go down the patches route, there's a bunch of extra tooling to support that available from many places (to support auto extract of patches from an inbox, signoff support, split patches etc)
10:15	achim	jackdempsey, beatis-fly: thanks! i see, reading up on git seems inevitable ;)
10:15	rys	So I'd borrow that stuff and not reinvent the wheel
10:15	rhickey	rys: I would use the pull model where I work too, as I said, but this is a public project where contributors are likely to come and go, as I must presume will their repos, leaving the ticket system with dead references to joe:1h2a7s
10:15	rys	rhickey: yeah, I see where you're coming from. There's really sweet tooling to support both/either at the end of the day
10:15	rhickey	Imagine if instead of taking patch files we took URLs to patches. Thats what ull requests to public repos feel like to me - ephemeral
10:16	baetis-fly	one advantage of using patches is that people don't have to mess with github/a public repo if they don't want to.
10:16	baetis-fly	for a very small contributor github does get in the way.
10:16	rhickey	baetis-fly: it will still be a requirement that patches be produced by git's format-patch
10:16	rys	git format-patch ftw!
10:16	baetis-fly	rhickey: as it should be.
10:17	Chouser	ah, git will be required, but not github. That's a nice point.
10:17	baetis-fly	i didn't mean to say they didn't have to mess with git, just that they don't need to setup a github account and do a fork.
10:18	rys	Yeah, I could host my clojure repo anywhere, as long as it's public
10:18	baetis-fly	because really, github just confuses the issue for people new to github.
10:18	baetis-fly	er, new to git.
10:18	Chouser	rys: but with patches you don't even need a public place to host a repo.
10:18	baetis-fly	exactly.
10:20	rys	Well, I was somewhat assuming the project would support both, just with one preferred
10:21	Chousuke	gitorious seems to have a bit better merge request support :/
10:21	Chousuke	too bad assembla doesn't support it :P
10:22	Chousuke	you can actually comment on merge requests and they stay in the system after the merge, marked as "merged"
10:22	eevar2	what happens when two forks apply the same patch? will git deal gracefully with that? what happens if the changes are pulled instead, any difference?
10:22	Chousuke	eevar2: it depends. if the patch is applied on the same parent, it'll work fine.
10:23	rys	merging from multiple remotes is fine as long as ancestors are common
10:23	Chousuke	if not, you need a merge.
10:24	rys	manual merge there, yes
10:25	s450r1	Perhaps I'm really confused, but what are the advantages to using a DVCS if you don't pull from other repos? Using patches for contributing would work fine with Subversion.
10:26	Chousuke	s450r1: local commits and branches. and git actually retains authorship information
10:26	Chousuke	so that instead of rhickey being the committer of everything, you get the real committer. :P
10:27	baetis-fly	s450r1: Another is that you've immediately got hundreds of pristine backups of your tree (as long as people aren't working on master, and they shouldn't be).
10:28	rys	Even if they are, you just remove the commits until the point when you last committed to master
10:28	Chousuke	and git will catch corruption because it has hashes of everything
10:29	Chousuke	s450r1: witness the recent savannah.gnu.org breakdown. git-using were basically unaffected, while SVN and CVS users had to go through hoops to get their data restored from a backup :P
10:29	Chousuke	git-using projects*
10:30	s450r1	all good points, thanks
10:33	s450r1	although I think the local commits and branches and backup ideas would work with "git svn". I think authorship information would too.
10:33	Chousuke	s450r1: not really.
10:33	Chousuke	git svn handles local stuff fine but it's painful when you actually need to commit to the svn repo
10:34	s450r1	I'm all in favor of using git, but it seemed that not pulling from other repos is ignoring the main advantage a DVCS gives you.
10:35	Chousuke	s450r1: the debate is about whether it should be the main method of contribution I think
10:35	Chousuke	s450r1: you'd still have separate repos for larger projects I suppose.
10:35	Chousuke	like clojure-in-clojure
10:35	s450r1	Chousuke: I'm not real knowledgeable about git, but I've been using "git svn dcommit" at work without any problems.
10:36	s450r1	Chousuke: sorry, I didn't mean to distract from the main debate
10:36	Chousuke	s450r1: the problem with it is that you can't share commits or branches between two "git-svn" repos without a lot of hassle.
10:36	rys	You should really only use git svn for gateways, imho
10:36	Chousuke	since dcommitting changes the hashes and confuses git, and everyone needs to rebase and fix their branches
10:37	rys	+uni-directional
10:37	Chouser	s450r1: I do that too. One interesting difference is that the people with rights to commit to a git repo can be small, and yet when they approve a change from some other author, that authorship gets recorded directly in the official repo.
10:38	Chousuke	you suppose Clojure should use signed-off-by -tags? :)
10:38	Chousuke	maybe not.
10:38	s450r1	Chousuke and Chouser, excellent points
10:38	rys	I'd use signed-off-by if rhickey wasn't the only maintainer
10:38	Chousuke	contrib perhaps could though.
10:39	rys	If he lets others commit to master in his stead, it's worth having some kind of signoff
10:39	hiredman	~scala
10:39	clojurebot	Unfortunately the standard idiom of consuming an infinite/unbounded resource as a stream can be problematic unless you're really careful -- seen in #scala
10:40	hiredman	why not just do patches for month and revist the issue then?
10:40	Chousuke	it's only adding a -s to "git am" when applying patches anyway :)
10:51	Xcalibor	greetings (again)...
10:55	Xcalibor	any advice about how to process a file (not necessarily too big, about 3000 lines).. I have a fairly expensive calculation to do over every line, but I guess clojure.contrib.duck-streams/read-lines is sequential even if I use pmap: (pmap myfoo (read-lines "file.txt"))
10:56	Chouser	Xcalibor: if the CPU is the bottleneck, reading the lines in order like that should be fine.
10:56	Xcalibor	it takes several seconds to do each line, it would be nicer if I could do it concurrently... can slurp handle such a file into an array?
10:57	hiredman	Xcalibor: the only sequential part is reading the file, which will always be sequential
10:58	hiredman	you may want to look at seque to keep pmap running
10:58	Xcalibor	so if I put the file into a vector, will clojure to be able to handle it concurrently afterwards?
10:58	hiredman	,(doc seque)
10:58	clojurebot	"([s] [n-or-q s]); Creates a queued seq on another (presumably lazy) seq s. The queued seq will produce a concrete seq in the background, and can get up to n items ahead of the consumer. n-or-q can be an integer n buffer size, or an instance of java.util.concurrent BlockingQueue. Note that reading from a seque can block if the reader gets ahead of the producer."
10:58	hiredman	,(doc read-lines)
10:58	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.duck-streams/read-lines;[[f]]; Like clojure.core/line-seq but opens f with reader. Automatically closes the reader AFTER YOU CONSUME THE ENTIRE SEQUENCE."
10:59	hiredman	Xcalibor: it would make no difference
10:59	danlarkin	I love the warning at the end of the read-lines docstring
10:59	arohner	hiredman: why would it make no difference if he slurped the file into memory and then used pmap?
10:59	hiredman	arohner: because he is slurping the file into memory anyway with read-lines
11:00	hiredman	that is what "reading" a file does
11:00	arohner	and if the calculation is expensive enough, the calculation will dominate compared to reading the file
11:00	hiredman	yeah
11:00	Chouser	no need for seque
11:00	hiredman	Chouser: depends
11:00	Chouser	(pmap (fn [line] (Thread/sleep 1000) (.toUpperCase line)) (ds/read-lines "/tmp/tmp.txt"))
11:00	Xcalibor	ok, i see... however if i have the file in memory i could set up concurrent agents to do the job in parallel?
11:01	hiredman	Xcalibor: or just pmap
11:01	Chouser	with a four-line text file, that completes in slightly over 1 second.
11:01	hiredman	Chouser: but pmap is not completely eager
11:01	Chouser	hiredman: oh, I see your point.
11:04	hiredman	Xcalibor: pmap is built on future, and future is the samething has (send-off (agent nil) some-function)
11:04	hiredman	(more or less)
11:07	Xcalibor	hiredman: I see... so I just have to try and improve the algorithm speed, right?
11:09	hiredman	Xcalibor: I would compare pmap and map times, to see if pmap is really giving you a speed up
11:10	Xcalibor	I take it that (map f coll) is the same as (doseq [x coll] (f x)) right?
11:10	hiredman	no
11:11	hiredman	doseq returns nil and is eager
11:11	hiredman	much more like a for loop
11:11	hiredman	map returns a lazy-seq
11:12	hiredman	doseq is very side-effecty
11:12	arohner	was that jcall / jfn thing that rich posted in IRC every checked in anywhere?
11:14	Chousuke	arohner: I don't think so :/
11:14	arohner	second, related question, I think I need a more generic version of with-open
11:14	Xcalibor	well... i'll try to make it faster tomorrow, for today, it's already churning lines.. :-)
11:15	Xcalibor	thanks for your help... see ya around!
11:15	arohner	like (with-proc f [name init])
11:15	arohner	f is a function of one argument, calls (f name) in all cases
11:16	Chouser	arohner: try/finally is too verbose?
11:16	arohner	I use it very often
11:16	Chouser	oh, you still want the 'name' bound.
11:16	arohner	right
11:16	arohner	I want exactly with-open, but I want to choose which function gets called, rather than (.close name)
11:17	Chouser	you have a variety of other method names to call? I think I've made my own with-foo for some app or other.
11:18	arohner	yeah, I wrote a with-foo too, but it's not as nice as with-open's destructuring
11:18	arohner	so this would let you do
11:18	arohner	(def with-quit (part with-proc (quit name)))
11:19	arohner	and I already have a with-foo in my code, and now I'm contemplating a second
11:20	Chouser	ah
11:20	clojurebot	Paul Graham is the creator of the other new lisp
11:24	Chousuke	~arc
11:24	clojurebot	POLO! nya nya you can't see me
11:24	Chousuke	:D
11:24	Chousuke	sometimes the fuzzy matching is a bit unpredictable :)
11:25	Chouser	more fun that way
11:25	Chousuke	arohner: perhaps you could just look at with-open and make it more generic :)
11:25	Chousuke	it's not particularly complex.
11:26	arohner	Chousuke: that's the plan. I was just making sure I had a good idea first
11:26	arohner	:-0
11:26	arohner	:-)
11:27	Chouser	I think the idea is sound, but it seems to me the details could use some work.
11:28	arohner	Chouser: which details could use work?
11:28	Chouser	like, it's a shame that the thing that happens at the end appears at the beginning of the block of code.
11:28	rhickey	scopes are coming
11:28	Chouser	and the name doesn't really suggest 'finally' ... with- is used for lots of dynamic scope stuff.
11:30	arohner	so the name change is easy. How would you suggest making the 'finally' thing happen near the end?
11:31	Chouser	arohner: dunno -- may not be worth it, I guess.
11:31	Chousuke	(on-scope-exit f [...] )?
11:31	Chouser	(let-finally [x (make-x)] .... (finally (.quit x))) :-/
11:31	rhickey	scopes separate the scope from the action, so the whole notion of at the end/beginning is fuzzy
11:32	rhickey	you say what the cleanup is near the resource creation
11:32	Chouser	I think I used to know what scopes were going to do.
11:34	Chouser	http://paste.lisp.org/display/73838 -- scope blocks
11:35	arohner	cool
11:36	Chouser	almost 5 months ago -- no wonder it's a bit hazy for me. :-)
11:36	Chousuke	could you use that for a lazy seq backed by a file somehow? :/
11:36	Drakeson	how do you turn [:a 1 :b 2] to {:a 1 :b 2} ?
11:36	rhickey	Chousuke: exactly, that and many others
11:36	Chousuke	Drakeson: apply hash-map
11:37	Drakeson	thanks
11:37	rhickey	first cut at patch guidelines - thoughts? http://clojure.org/patches
11:41	Chouser	perfect
11:41	Chousuke	can a patch contain more than one commit?
11:42	Chousuke	it could be useful if the changes are related
11:42	baetis-fly	very good.
11:43	Chouser	do we want "fixes #42" in the original commit msg? I think that would make it so when a committer pushes it to master, assembla would close the ticket automatically.
11:44	arohner	shouldn't the clojure regression tests be in clojure proper rather than contrib?
11:45	Chouser	arohner: why?
11:45	arohner	so the tests stay in sync with the code
11:45	arohner	making a change to clojure proper that affects the test would require two patches
11:45	arohner	that should be applied inside a do-sync :-)
11:46	Chouser	arohner: as it stands, the community has easier access to updating the tests than if those changes had to go through rhickey.
11:46	Chouser	heh
11:46	Chousuke	don't the tests also depend on contrib?
11:47	Chouser	well, what you're describing is a breaking change -- it may actually be more useful to know that contrib depends on that set of tests passing.
11:47	arohner	Chousuke: oh, that is a good point
11:47	Chousuke	but it is a bit problematic,
11:47	Chouser	Chousuke: good point.
11:47	Chousuke	since contrib and clojure evolve separately, you could have clojure in a state where the tests won't work because of a change :/
11:48	Chousuke	and it'd be hard to tell which revision of the tests are valid for a given version of clojure.
11:51	Chousuke	so while the tests should be in the main repo, it'll also require accepting test-is as part of Clojure
11:51	Chousuke	with any dependencies it has ;/
11:52	hiredman	:/
11:53	Chousuke	apparently it depends on c.c.template and c.c.stacktrace
11:53	Drakeson	how would you restrict a hash-map to a set or coll of keys? (?? {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} [:a :b]) -> {:a 1 :b 2}
11:54	hiredman	or we could just keep it in contrib
11:54	Chousuke	and template depends on walk ;/
11:54	Chousuke	Drakeson: (zipmap keys (map keys themap))
11:54	hiredman	,(reduce dissoc {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4} [:c :d])
11:54	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
11:55	Chousuke	hmm
11:55	Chousuke	that doesn't quite work
11:55	Chousuke	mine, that is
11:56	arohner	,(doc select-keys)
11:56	clojurebot	"([map keyseq]); Returns a map containing only those entries in map whose key is in keys"
11:56	hiredman	ooo
11:56	Chousuke	oh, cool.
11:56	Chousuke	,`select-keys
11:56	clojurebot	clojure.core/select-keys
11:56	Chousuke	figures :P
11:56	Drakeson	arohner: sweat, thanks
11:57	Chousuke	actually, mine would have worked if I had used (map themap keys) instead ;/
11:58	Drakeson	wasn't there an "apropos" function in the repl?
11:58	Chouser	find-doc
12:10	rhickey_	Chouser: I was wondering about 'fixes #42' - we don't really have a separate acceptance test phase, but fixes in the patch commit will close the ticket with no option for another workflow. Could we put that on the merge, or is that not guaranteed to generate a commit?
12:11	gnuvince	Open question for you guys: do you think that the fact that functional code is usually a lot more nested than flat imperative code one of the reason why many programmers frown upon it?
12:13	hiredman	gnuvince: I dunno that people frown on it, they just are not exposed to it
12:13	hiredman	I think the main thing people have trouble with is letting go of mutable state
12:14	gnuvince	hiredman: which is one thing that lets them have flat code
12:14	gnuvince	they declare an object
12:14	baetis-fly	gnuvince: If people do frown upon it, it's because it's different. That difference could be nesting/state/whatever.
12:14	gnuvince	then perform 7 operations on it to bring it to the state they want
12:15	Chousuke	gnuvince: if you want flatter code, make a function :)
12:16	gnuvince	Chousuke: just wondering aloud
12:16	Chousuke	doesn't always help I guess, but if you're nesting a lot, then perhaps it'd help to break up the nesting parts into a separate function
12:16	gnuvince	I've got quite a few functions that are just a big let containing numerous bindings and one simple expression.
12:17	Chousuke	heh
12:17	baetis-fly	i end up writing functions like that whenever i need to do java interop.
12:19	Chousuke	one of the worst examples of this I know is destructure :P
12:19	Chousuke	~destructure
12:19	clojurebot	I don't understand.
12:19	Chousuke	~def destructure
12:23	arohner	I got with-proc working. I just replaced one line in with-open, and I'm able to define with-open in terms of with-proc
12:24	Chousuke	:)
12:24	arohner	since it's a macro, is there any cleaner way to define new 'versions'? currently it looks like
12:24	arohner	(defmacro with-close [bindings & body]
12:24	arohner	`(with-proc (fn [x#] (jcall x# "close")) ~bindings ~@body))
12:24	Chousuke	why the jcall?
12:24	arohner	to call (.close x)
12:24	arohner	which is what the current with-open does
12:25	Chousuke	why not just (~'.close x#)
12:25	arohner	oh, good point
12:25	arohner	I'm in macro-land
12:25	Chousuke	the ~' may even be unnecessary, actually.
12:26	Chousuke	`.close
12:26	Chousuke	,`.close
12:26	clojurebot	.close
12:27	hiredman	scopes just need to be pushed
12:28	hiredman	then resource handling stuff can just attach to the enclosing scope
12:28	Chousuke	you could even have something funky like (with-finalise {x (.close x)} [a item b another-item] ...)
12:28	Chousuke	looks rubyish :)
12:29	arohner	yeah, that's a lot of ceremony
12:30	arohner	hiredman: when are scopes coming? I need a solution to this soon, and I don't mind making the change twice
12:30	hiredman	arohner: you could try out "horizons"
12:31	Chousuke	arohner: I think you should go with your custom solution for now.
12:31	hiredman	which is what I called my implementation of scope
12:31	hiredman	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/blob/8d9f43016d388c9ee2ceeda85aa199ec56f4f7d3/hiredman/horizon.clj
12:32	hiredman	I haven't really used it
12:32	hiredman	but it follows the scope teaser rhickey posted
12:32	hiredman	~scope
12:32	clojurebot	scope is at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73838
12:33	hiredman	so you have a function "reader" which produces a reader, and inside reader you call (when-hrz :exits (.close rdr))
12:34	hiredman	er
12:34	hiredman	#(.close rdr)
12:34	technomancy	I like how the IRC channels for Apache projects are called "user-to-user support".
12:34	technomancy	it's a nice euphemism for "nobody knows what they're talking about"
12:35	hiredman	hey now
12:35	hiredman	so whenever "reader" is called it registers the reader it produces to be closed when the enclosing scope exits
12:37	hiredman	oh, it does the fn wrapping for you, so (.close rdr) would be fine
12:44	ben_m	Hi there :) Is there a pastebin that supports Clojure?
12:46	hiredman	gist
12:46	hiredman	but gist doesn't let you group pastes by channel
12:47	ben_m	Doesn't bother me :) Thank you.
12:47	rhickey_	lisppaste8: url
12:47	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
12:48	ben_m	Thanks :)
12:49	hiredman	the lisp.org pastebin is prefered for #clojure because of the above mentioned grouping feature
12:49	ben_m	Yeah.
12:50	ben_m	Gist is pretty cool though.
12:51	lisppaste8	ben_m pasted "Kiloseconds" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82002
12:52	ben_m	Just learning Clojure and I'm wondering if there's a better way of doing this.
12:52	ben_m	Maybe more functional or in a more idiomatic way for a Lisp.
12:52	hiredman	excellent, now do it for an arbitrary date
12:53	hiredman	I have been meaning to figure out how old I am in megaseconds
12:54	ben_m	Well, there you go.
12:54	ben_m	Just change the 1000 into a 1000000 :)
12:54	danlei	probiers doch zuerst mal mit 1-2-3-5-motiven, hat trane auch oft gespielt ...
12:55	hiredman	no, that just tells me the kiloseconds since the epoch
12:55	danlei	ooh ... sorry guys
12:55	hiredman	I need kiloseconds since my epoch
12:56	ben_m	Oh, yeah.
13:44	Georges`	Hello
13:45	Georges`	Question about clojure and SLIME
13:45	Georges`	Who does the (add-classpath "file:///......./") when launching SLIME with swank-clojure ?
13:46	technomancy	Georges`: sounds like you've got an older version of swank-clojure; recent versions don't do that.
13:47	Georges`	Well, in my version (taken from Git), it actually doesn't do the (add-classpath ...), but this leads to swank being unable to connect to clojure, so I have to manually patch swank-clojure.el's swank-clojure-init to append the (add-classpath ...).
13:49	Georges`	In the video (http://vimeo.com/2419596), at 04:13, when he runs SLIME, the (add-classpath ...) pops up...
13:49	technomancy	yeah, that video uses an old version of swank-clojure
13:49	technomancy	in recent versions it gets added to the classpath in the right place so it doesn't have to happen after clojure is launched.
13:49	technomancy	inside the swank-clojure-cmd function
13:52	Georges`	Oh, I see... I defined a swank-clojure-binary in a .bat...
13:53	Georges`	and swank-clojure-jar-path, but swank-clojure-binary gets first priority...
13:53	Georges`	so I don't get all the goodies like swank-clojure-library-paths, etc...
13:55	technomancy	I'm not sure why you would want to use swank-clojure-binary
13:56	Georges`	obsolete docs :)
13:59	Georges`	OK, working. Thanks!
13:59	technomancy	cool
14:00	cemerick	mmm, assembla is pretty good
14:02	Chousuke	I use swank-clojure-binary. it points to my nailgun clojure wrapper
14:02	Chouser	cemerick: if you figure out how to turn off some of the notification emails, let me know
14:02	Chouser	I coulda sworn I saw an option for that, but I can't find it now.
14:02	cemerick	Chouser: http://www.assembla.com/spaces/new_items/clojure?settings=show ?
14:02	rhickey_	cemerick: yeah, I think it will be nice for us, you're now a member
14:03	technomancy	Chousuke: oh, that makes sense
14:03	cemerick	rhickey_: what's the status on getting the tickets out of googlecode?
14:04	rhickey_	cemerick: help wanted
14:04	Chousuke	doing it manually?
14:04	cemerick	yeah, it's too small of a job to bother scripting.
14:04	cemerick	(IMO)
14:04	Chousuke	do I need to be a team member to enter tickets?
14:04	rhickey_	I've been working on this transition for a week now, at the expense of other things
14:05	rhickey_	but the goal is to empower others
14:06	gnuvince	rhickey_: speaking of which, I recall somebody talking about an online CA form to make it easier for people wishing to contribute.
14:06	gnuvince	Do you expect to have something like that?
14:07	dnolen	rhickey_: and you've been doing a fantastic job! twitter account, assembla, dev list, github, great stuff! this transparency is great.
14:08	rhickey_	gnuvince: there's something about someone bothering to print, sign and mail the CA that serves as a small indication to me that they are seriously interested in participating
14:09	Chouser	cemerick: yeah, that's it. thanks.
14:09	Chousuke	It'll deter people who would like to contribute just a patch or two to fix their issues, thoug h :/
14:09	gnuvince	rhickey_: ah, the Clojure-Dev litmus test, I see :)
14:09	technomancy	yeah, it does end up being biased against people who get turned off by busywork.
14:10	rhickey_	maybe
14:10	pjstadig	there is a CSV export of tickets from GoogleCode
14:10	cemerick	hrm, it's not that hard...
14:10	pjstadig	is there an import of some kind for assembla?
14:11	Chousuke	pjstadig: assembla apparently has an api for that
14:11	rhickey_	pjstadig: a csv of the report right?
14:11	cemerick	yeah, it doesn't contain the contents
14:11	Chouser	pjstadig: the csv doesn't include discussions or attachments... yeah
14:11	pjstadig	true
14:11	pjstadig	well attachments could be migrated
14:11	pjstadig	(manually)
14:11	pjstadig	but discussions?
14:12	rhickey_	on the assembla side there's:http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/c8A2BGQEWr2RUvaaeP0Qfc/Integrate_with_Assembla
14:12	Chousuke	any news on the google bug about this?
14:13	Chousuke	I lost the URL :/
14:13	cemerick	it seems like it'd be acceptable for each ticket to have just a full dump of the discussion -- unless rhickey_ really cares, splitting each comment out into an assembla comment seems unnecessary (and probably pretty complicated w.r.t. matching users, etc)
14:13	rhickey_	cemerick: yes, full dump is fine
14:14	Chouser	Chousuke: http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=148
14:14	Chouser	no news
14:14	Chousuke	too bad :/
14:14	Chouser	Unless you meant this, which is worse: http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=1689
14:15	cemerick	not-not-evil, again :-/
14:16	cemerick	man, those default assembla alerts really are crazy
14:16	rhickey_	become a watcher, then ask on clojure-dev for a bump-up
14:18	cemerick	rhickey_: unless some better solution is immediately available, I'll volunteer to move the issues over manually
14:19	technomancy	"Just get an Assembla login (please use a recognizable name)" <= does that mean a real name, or a name that's consistent with your usernames on other systems?
14:19	Chousuke	cemerick: Going to do it right now? I can help.
14:20	rhickey_	cemerick: great - thanks! wanna ping the clojure-dev group so people don't step on each other?
14:21	cemerick	Chousuke: yeah. I'll bet we can tag-team it within a half-hour.
14:21	Chousuke	though rhickey_ needs to make me a member of the clojure (and -contrib) space first, apparently. Seems like there's no way to post issues if you're not a member :/
14:21	rhickey_	technomancy: something I can find on http://clojure.org/contributing
14:21	cemerick	rhickey_: I was going to ask: does it matter if the issue IDs remain the same?
14:22	Chouser	Chousuke: can you create a ticket via the Support tab?
14:22	Chousuke	ah! yes I can.
14:22	Chousuke	wasn't there earlier :)
14:23	rhickey_	Chousuke: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_frm/thread/99e2728f665c52fa
14:23	rhickey_	cemerick: not sure if that's even possible, is it?
14:23	rhickey_	Chousuke: don't use the support tab if you have a CA
14:23	cemerick	rhickey_: well, if you can delete everything in assembla, and then if we add the issues in in order, that should do it
14:24	Chousuke	hm, but that doesn't parallelise very well :P
14:24	cemerick	yeah, we'd have to just do it in two shifts :-)
14:25	cemerick	I'll bet tickets can't be deleted though
14:25	rhickey_	cemerick: I'm not sure deleting them would free the number (I'd hope it didn't actually), but if you want to start from wherever we are, I'll avoid adding others - can't say other people won;t submit though
14:25	technomancy	often incremental IDs don't start from zero again even if you delete everything.
14:25	cemerick	hrm, actually, it's better if we add them in order anyway, so we maintain the chronology
14:34	cemerick	Chousuke: OK, I'm ready to go...shall I take the first 60?
14:36	Chousuke	okay
14:37	Chousuke	So are we going to keep the order? :/
14:38	Chousuke	is it worth it? Maybe we should just add a reference to the original issue number
14:38	cemerick	Seems like a really good idea -- otherwise, default ordering of tickets will list prehistoric stuff next to things from 6 months ago
14:38	cemerick	Oh, I'll be doing that too.
14:41	achim	maybe it's a good idea to start the ticket summaries with their original numbers, so you can get the original ordering back by sorting Backlog alphabetically
14:42	cemerick	tickets rolling in now...
14:44	cemerick	rhickey_: do you want all issues assigned to you, or only ones you "accepted" in GC?
14:45	rhickey_	cemerick: unassigned, thanks
14:46	Chousuke	cemerick: you'll be on the notification list for all these issues ;(
14:46	hiredman	clojurebot: assembla?
14:46	clojurebot	No entiendo
14:46	cemerick	rhickey_: just clarifying, so you don't want any issues assigned to you from GC?
14:46	hiredman	clojurebot: assembla is http://www.assembla.com/spaces/dashboard/index/b4-TTcvBSr3RAZeJe5aVNr
14:46	clojurebot	Alles klar
14:46	cemerick	Chousuke: oh well. I guess I'll know what's going on :-)
14:47	Chousuke	hiredman: hm, I don't know why assembla gives that weird url by default
14:47	Chousuke	clojurebot: forget assembla
14:47	clojurebot	I forgot assembla
14:47	jackdempsey	haha
14:47	Chousuke	clojurebot: assembla is http://www.assembla.com/spaces/dashboard/index/clojure
14:47	clojurebot	Ok.
14:47	hiredman	:(
14:47	hiredman	ah
14:47	rhickey_	cemerick: no, I'll go through them again, thanks
14:48	rhickey_	clojurebot: assembla is http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure
14:48	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
14:48	cemerick	I'm leaving out dupes, only adding tickets that were merged into
14:48	hiredman	this is like the fourth or fifth time I have grepped through my irc logs looking for url
14:49	Chousuke	does "is" overwrite the old definition? or does it append?
14:52	wy_	Where can I find a complete documentation of Clojure? I can't seem to find more than one-sentence documentations for lots of things
14:53	Chousuke	holy crap assembla is spammy :P
14:53	hiredman	Chousuke: information rich
14:53	Chousuke	wy_: many things are only documented with a single sentene :/
14:53	hiredman	:P
14:53	wy_	:(
14:54	Chousuke	wy_: http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/
14:54	wy_	How is the book?
14:58	Chousuke	seriously now, I turned off the notifications and I'm still getting spam :P
14:58	Chousuke	maybe it takes a while to go through.
14:59	rhickey_	Chousuke: yeah, I don't seem to be able to configure the stream defaults, but your individual settings should work - mine do
15:11	Chousuke	cemerick: we're lucky there are only 120 issues :P
15:11	cemerick	indeed
15:12	cemerick	gawd, assembla spams like a blind nun
15:12	cemerick	and I changed my prefs to send only a daily summary :-(
15:17	Chouser	switching to daily summary seemed to do it for me.
15:17	rhickey_	hourly is working for me
15:18	cemerick	unfixed issues are decidedly more pleasant to transfer than fixed ones :-P
15:18	Chouser	heh
15:18	Chouser	do we even need fixed ones?
15:18	cemerick	TOO DAMN LATE CHOUSER!
15:18	cemerick	;-)
15:18	Chousuke	cemerick: what's wrong with fixed ones? the need for marking them as mixed? :P
15:18	Chousuke	... fixed
15:19	Chousuke	actually, that would've been parallelisable ;/
15:19	cemerick	it's two additional click-load cycles
15:19	Chousuke	you could just have entered the issue and I could have marked them as fixed :P
15:27	cemerick	...or I could have been ever-so-slightly-less-stupid, and just searched for "Fixed" among the issues I entered, and closed them all in one shot :-(
15:27	cemerick	I think I scared Chouser ;-)
15:28	Chousuke	cemerick: wonder if that'd work for me :)
15:32	cemerick	Chousuke: OK -- you're up :-)
15:33	Chousuke	cemerick: where's issue 59? :D
15:33	cemerick	huh -- there isn't one in GC....
15:33	cemerick	that's interesting.
15:33	Chousuke	maybe it was deletet
15:33	Chousuke	d
15:34	cemerick	Chousuke: Couple of things: (a) I've been prefixing everything with "GC ", as you've seen (b) make sure you use the "code format" style, otherwise some of the text that gets copy-pasted out of google code produces crazy styles (which I need to fix in the first 5 issues or so I created)
15:35	ataggart	/msg NickServ identify passw0rd
15:35	leafw	ataggart: such a classic
15:36	leafw	ataggart: anda very common password, by the way.
15:36	Chousuke	cemerick: code format?
15:36	ataggart	lol
15:36	ataggart	damn copy paste
15:36	ataggart	I knew one day that'd bite me in the ass
15:37	cemerick	Chousuke: yeah, there's a "code block" format button above the description textarea that pops in <pre><code> tags, with the cursor properly placed
15:37	hiredman	~ticket #1
15:37	clojurebot	([2009-06-13T14:38:41+00:00] [Add chunk support to map filter et al]) http://tinyurl.com/mfpa6s
15:38	hiredman	~ticket #19
15:38	clojurebot	([2009-06-17T18:58:13+00:00] [GC Issue 15: JavaDoc for interfaces]) http://tinyurl.com/nwbq77
15:38	Chousuke	~ticket #64
15:38	clojurebot	([2009-06-17T19:38:52+00:00] [GC Issue 61: Make Clojure datatype Java Serializable]) http://tinyurl.com/mggn3q
15:39	Chousuke	neat.
15:40	cemerick	ugh, I've got the notification set to "daily summary", but I'm getting everything
15:40	Chouser	clojure vs. contrib project?
15:41	Chousuke	cemerick: did you use "low" or "lowest" for the priorities?
15:51	hiredman	~ticket #19
15:51	clojurebot	{:summary GC Issue 15: JavaDoc for interfaces, :status :new, :created-on 2009-06-17T18:58:13+00:00} http://tinyurl.com/nwbq77
15:56	cemerick	Chousuke: low and normal ("medium" in GC) were the only two I used
15:59	cemerick	rhickey_ seems to aggressively classify issues as "low"
15:59	Chouser	heh
16:01	rhickey_	cemerick: I hope to be able to use milestones to better partition the issues moving forward
16:02	cemerick	sure, whatever works for you. It just became very clear when copying things over :-)
16:02	Chousuke	issue 70 is a handful
16:03	Chousuke	23 comments and a whole bunch of patches :P
16:03	cemerick	Chousuke: Let me know if you run out of steam eventually
16:07	Chousuke	8 attachments :P
16:07	Chousuke	luckily assembla is nice and ajaxy
16:11	arohner	~ticket #70
16:11	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/n8y2eq, :summary "GC Issue 67: clojure.lang.Compile doesn't provide a way to control warn-on-reflection", :status :new, :priority 4, :created-on "2009-06-17T19:57:04+00:00"}
16:12	hlship	I'm struggling with a problem.
16:12	hlship	I'm trying to create a new function in a namespace.
16:12	hlship	http://paste.lisp.org/+1RAA
16:13	hlship	I.e., so that the new function has access to imports and private functions of the namespace.
16:13	hlship	It works if I define it in the current namespace (the namespace containing the to-value-fn function).
16:14	Chouser	hlship: have you tried (binding [ns ...] (eval ...)) ?
16:14	hlship	Yes, found the (with-ns) macro
16:14	hlship	I wrap the (eval) with (with-ns namespace (eval ...))
16:14	hlship	Get Caused by: java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: expression-form in this context
16:14	hlship	I've tried a few variations as well
16:15	hlship	such as moving the (with-ns) inside the (eval)
16:15	hlship	and failed in other ways
16:15	hlship	It's a bit of a heresy
16:15	hlship	but in Cascade, a template file is converted into a function
16:16	hlship	and the function should have access to all the same imported or private resources
16:16	hlship	available to a function defined with the namespace's .clj file
16:17	Chouser	where's with-ns ?
16:17	hlship	The code works for simple expressions, i.e., those that only use clojure.core
16:18	hlship	http://paste.lisp.org/display/82018#1
16:19	hiredman	where is the exception?
16:21	hlship	http://paste.lisp.org/+1RAA#2
16:21	hlship	The exception is in the call to (eval) with the (with-ns) macro
16:21	hiredman	(doc with-ns)
16:21	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.with-ns/with-ns;[[ns & body]]; Evaluates body in another namespace. ns is either a namespace object or a symbol. This makes it possible to define functions in namespaces other than the current one."
16:22	hiredman	~def with-ns
16:22	hiredman	ugh
16:22	hiredman	I imagine the problem is with-ns uses eval
16:23	Chouser	oh, indeed.
16:23	Chouser	hlship: you don't need with-ns
16:23	hlship	Just do the (binding [ns]) myself, you think?
16:23	hlship	I'll give it a try.
16:23	Chouser	hlship: in fact, it's getting in your way, making it difficult (impossible?) to pass in your form variables.
16:24	Chouser	hlship: http://paste.lisp.org/display/82018#3
16:24	technomancy	why does compiling this give me a No such file or directory error? (gen-class :name foo.bar.Derefer :implements [clojure.lang.IDeref])
16:24	hiredman	hlship: when doing namespace stuff like that you have to watch for def
16:24	Chouser	technomancy: does your "classes" dir exist?
16:25	technomancy	Chouser: yep; and it's on the classpath
16:25	technomancy	err... maybe not
16:25	technomancy	bleh
16:25	technomancy	must have been overzealous in deleting
16:25	technomancy	Chouser: any reason why it can't be created for you?
16:25	hlship	thanks for the help; current tests now pass
16:25	hlship	now to add tests that exercise access to private functions, etc.
16:25	clojurebot	functions are maps
16:26	Chouser	technomancy: hm, dunno.
16:27	Chousuke	one third done! phew, this takes time ;P
16:28	Chousuke	and in the mean time, assembla has sent me 46 emails
16:29	lisppaste8	hsuh pasted "How to express this with loop/recur" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82020
16:30	hiredman	eh?
16:30	Chousuke	oh crap, double post :P
16:31	Chousuke	no way to delete tickets it seems.
16:33	hiredman	~ticket #70
16:33	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/n8y2eq, :summary "GC Issue 67: clojure.lang.Compile doesn't provide a way to control warn-on-reflection", :status :new, :priority 4, :created-on "2009-06-17T19:57:04+00:00"}
16:35	cemerick	huh, when I checked out rhickey's clojure repo from github, it created a local branch for 1.0 and checked it out, instead of master...
16:35	hiredman	mine checked out master
16:36	cemerick	that's very strange
16:40	cemerick	...and, http://github.com/cemerick/clojure redirects to /tree/1.0, and /tree/master doesn't exist :-/
16:40	cemerick	but I have an origin/master ref
16:44	devinus	there hasn't been too many updates to the clojure repo lately, is something going on?
16:44	cemerick	huh, there's a "default branch" setting in the edit pane of my repo, but no master listed there, either
16:45	hiredman	devinus: a lot of effort is going into migrating away from google code
16:45	cemerick	I've only forked repos on github that have one master branch, so this is new to me
16:45	devinus	hiredman: so, using git perhaps?
16:45	hiredman	devinus: github+assembla
16:45	hiredman	~github
16:45	clojurebot	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/tree/master
16:45	hiredman	~assembla
16:45	clojurebot	assembla is http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure
16:46	technomancy	so the main draw of assembla then is the fact that it supports milestones and linking tickets to them?
16:46	Chousuke	cemerick: you were really fast at this :P
16:46	Chousuke	cemerick: I'm only halfway through :D
16:46	devinus	hiredman: yes, that's exactly what i was wondering thanks. i've been stuck on SVN for amost a week now without updates
16:50	hiredman	devinus: it's not like you've missed a whole lot
16:50	devinus	hiredman: what kind of work is going on right now?
16:51	hiredman	well, currently Chousuke and cemerick are transfering tickets from google code to assembla
16:52	Chousuke	cemerick already did his part.
16:52	Chousuke	now it's all me :D
16:52	cemerick	odd, I deleted my fork, recreated, and now there's a proper master branch in my repo :-/
16:52	Chousuke	~ticket #102
16:52	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/mncnbf, :summary "GC Issue 98: \t proxy emits bytecode improperly referring to 21- & 22-arg overloads of IFn.invoke (Regression?)", :status :new, :priority :normal, :created-on "2009-06-17T20:52:20+00:00"}
16:52	Chousuke	hm
16:52	Chousuke	the tabs, they're evil
16:52	hiredman	shrug
16:52	Chousuke	oh well, they'll only show up in there.
16:53	Chousuke	22 to go...
16:59	devinus	what kind of work on clojure is going on now?
16:59	devinus	it seems repo updates kind of tapered off
17:00	hiredman	I would check out the assembla page
17:00	rhickey_	devinus: I'm working on chunked seqs, then 'instance', plus getting in 'scope', then clojure-in-clojure
17:01	rhickey_	but over the last couple of weeks a lot of time on this changeover and the JavaOne trip
17:01	hiredman	~ticket #2
17:01	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/n24rzw, :summary "Scopes", :status :new, :priority :normal, :created-on "2009-06-15T12:35:58+00:00"}
17:01	devinus	rhickey_: clojure-in-clojure, as in bluebook design (minus the whole writing your own vm part)?
17:02	devinus	(not that i'm knowledgable about anything like that)
17:02	rhickey_	not sure what is implied by bluebook design
17:04	rhickey_	but removing the few things that require recourse to Java (instance a big part of that), then rewriting the compiler in Clojure, getting better access to the analyzed syntax tree for tools etc, better modularity...
17:07	cemerick	rhickey_: The patches I have queued up are targeted at 1.0 -- are you ready for such things, or not yet?
17:08	rhickey_	cemerick: bugfixes?
17:09	cemerick	rhickey_: 2 definitely, one could be considered an enhancement, but I'd consider it a critical fix
17:09	rhickey_	which is?
17:09	Chousuke	cemerick: are you posting new issues to the GC tracker? :P
17:09	cemerick	rhickey_: adding an encoding argument to slurp
17:09	Chousuke	oh wait, never mind
17:09	cemerick	no, not me
17:09	Chousuke	I was just confused by issue number 121
17:09	Chousuke	but there was one missing
17:10	wy_	Can I write macros that produce functions, like: (defmacro m ([n] `(fn [x] (* x n)))). When this is called, I got error: java.lang.Exception: Can't use qualified name as parameter: user/x
17:11	arohner	wy_: macros try to resolve 'naked' symbols to namespaces, to make them hygenic
17:11	arohner	wy_: use x# rather than x
17:11	arohner	and ~n rather than n
17:12	arohner	x# does a gensym
17:12	wy_	It works. Thank you
17:14	rhickey_	cemerick: hrm, adding arguments isn't usually part of a bugfix release branch
17:14	cemerick	rhickey_: yeah, that's what I figured you'd say. :-) Not permitting the specification of a read encoding is badly broken IMO (not to put too fine a point on it).
17:15	rhickey_	cemerick: sounds like a fine enhancement for 1.1
17:15	cemerick	lol yeah, OK :-D
17:18	wy_	Can it support nested backquotes and unquotes?
17:21	wy_	I'm trying to write something like: (defmacro power ([n] `(fn [x#] ~(if (= n 0) 1 `(* ~x# ~((power (- n 1)) x#))))))
17:21	wy_	so far it doesn't work yet
17:21	hiredman	uh
17:21	hiredman	~x# <-- no
17:21	clojurebot	x is y
17:21	hiredman	clojurebot: thanks!
17:21	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
17:21	rhickey_	wy_: foo# won't work in nested contexts, you'll need gensyms
17:22	wy_	Thanks
17:32	Chousuke	phew
17:32	Chousuke	that ought to do it.
17:32	Chousuke	rhickey_: all issues should be migrated now.
17:35	cemerick	I just sent the all-clear on the issue tracker.
17:39	Chousuke	rhickey_: should I mark an issue as "ready to test" if I submit a patch for it? :)
17:42	rhickey_	cemerick: Chousuke: Thanks!!!
17:43	rhickey_	Chousuke: yes
17:43	Chousuke	it's only a doc fix so there's not much to "test", but I guess it's a nice indicator that there's a patch
17:44	cemerick	rhickey_: least I could do, since I don't add a lot of mojo around here :-)
17:46	Chousuke	oh crap, now I spotted a typo in the patch I posted :D
17:49	Chousuke	fixed
17:49	Chousuke	and adding all these issues earned me 125 messages from assembla ;(
17:51	cemerick	does anyone know why 'git push origin :foo' deletes the foo remote branch?
17:53	cemerick	it's funny, I never thought anyone would bother with v1.0 patches, yet here I am tracking some
17:53	cemerick	whoo-hoo, someone's impl a skip-tree
17:53	cemerick	that's fantastic, if it's persistent -- I wouldn't have thought it possible...
17:54	Chousuke	cemerick: I guess because you're pushing "nothing" to it
17:54	Chousuke	so it's removed :P
17:55	cemerick	oh, X:Y means push local ref X to remote ref Y. I get it now.
17:56	Chousuke	I use it sometimes to push branches under different names.
17:57	cemerick	yeah. We manage to not step on each other's toes, so I've never had to do that before.
17:58	cemerick	eh, the skip-tree is in Java as a replacement for PersistentTreeMap
17:59	Chousuke	where is this skip-tree?
18:00	cemerick	Chousuke: http://github.com/mspiegel/clojure/commit/baee6e122086932bd0a73b7e2ed1380a2ecfc681
18:00	Chousuke	from the group: "I think of it as repo = directed graph of nodes and pointers into the graph & git = graph editor" interesting take
18:01	hiredman	that is alot of red
18:01	cemerick	yeah, it's a full replacement.
18:01	Chousuke	maybe it should not be :/
18:01	Chousuke	or is it better than the rb-tree in all cases?
18:02	cemerick	in all cases, I believe
18:03	Chousuke	hmm.
18:03	Chousuke	Well, then I guess it would make sense
18:05	hiredman	that network tab sure is sweet
18:05	hiredman	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/graphs/languages :(
18:05	cemerick	is the skip-tree blessed as a PTM replacement (in concept, even)
18:06	ataggart	hiredman: one might read that as an indicator of the relative verbosity of java versus clojure :)
18:07	cemerick	I'll bet that ratio is pretty common across any language implementation (impl. language vs. hosted language)
18:15	cemerick	ech, the sorted-set-by patch doesn't apply
18:26	Chousuke	hm
18:26	Chousuke	Clojure contrib issues must still be moved over ;(
18:26	hiredman	:\|
18:27	Chousuke	there are only 41 of them though
18:27	Chousuke	but I'm not going to do it
18:29	durka42	manually?
18:29	Chousuke	yes
18:29	Chousuke	already did it for all the clojure issues
18:29	durka42	seems like someone should write a clojure program to do it
18:29	Chousuke	cemerick moved the first half and I the rest.
18:30	hiredman	I think the main issue is gc doesn't have an issues api
18:30	hiredman	assembla does
18:30	gnuvince_	(doc print-dup)
18:30	clojurebot	"; When set to logical true, objects will be printed in a way that preserves their type when read in later. Defaults to false."
18:30	gnuvince_	What's the meaning of "dup"?
18:30	cemerick	way too small a job to script IMO
18:30	hiredman	gnuvince_: duplicate
18:30	hiredman	I imagine
18:31	cemerick	yeah, I'm done with data entry for today :-)
18:33	hiredman	~ticket #123
18:33	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/lese6n, :summary "CG Issue 119: require doc out of date", :status :test, :priority :low, :created-on "2009-06-17T21:23:16+00:00"}
18:34	hiredman	hah, sure, test
18:38	Chousuke	rhickey_: I'm taking over the test ticket on contrib. turning it into a real one. (for moving the issues from GC)
18:38	Chousuke	I just thought #1 is suitable for it
18:38	durka42	~ticket 122
18:38	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
18:38	durka42	~ticket #122
18:38	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/lmuevk, :summary "GC Issue 118: Patch to add :svn to clojure-version", :status :new, :priority :low, :created-on "2009-06-17T21:22:20+00:00"}
18:38	durka42	~ticket #124
18:38	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/nnxh74, :summary "CG Issue 120: Determine mechanism for controlling automatic shutdown of Agents, with a default policy and mechanism for changing that policy as needed", :status :new, :priority :low, :created-on "2009-06-17T21:24:22+00:00"}
18:38	durka42	~ticket #125
18:38	clojurebot	{:url http://tinyurl.com/lyy9mk, :summary "CG Issue 121: slurp should accept an encoding name", :status :new, :priority :low, :created-on "2009-06-17T21:25:14+00:00"}
18:39	durka42	GC --> CG somewhere :p
18:39	Chousuke	damn it :P
18:39	Chousuke	that obviously needs to be fixed.
18:39	durka42	can they be edited
18:39	Chousuke	sure.
18:40	Chousuke	that's what you get for editing things at midnight :P
18:43	hiredman	watch out what you watch on assembla
18:43	hiredman	you could get a few emails
18:43	Chousuke	yeah :P
18:44	Chousuke	I'm currently watching half of the tickets.
18:44	Chousuke	because I added them
18:44	durka42	email filters :)
18:44	hiredman	yeah
18:45	hiredman	I have email from assembla skip my inbox
18:45	Chousuke	and I can't remove myself from the notifications list :((((
18:45	Chousuke	because I'm the submitter
18:45	Chousuke	this is evil
18:45	Chousuke	EVIL I SAY.
18:46	technomancy	you can always remove yourself from the notifications ... in your spam filter. =)
18:48	Chousuke	Okay, fixed the CGs as well... now I'm done for today :P
18:54	mrsolo	hm look like aot doesn't save much
18:54	Chousuke	save much of what?
18:55	Chousuke	time? :)
18:55	mrsolo	right
18:55	mrsolo	startup time
18:55	Chousuke	right.
18:55	Chousuke	java's bad with that.
18:55	mrsolo	invoke via clojure.main @.. via gensum class...not whole lot of difference basically
18:55	mrsolo	s/gensum/gensym/
18:56	Chousuke	if you have a java application you run often (like the clojure repl), take a look at nailgun
18:56	mrsolo	nailgun works pretty good, yes
18:56	mrsolo	that is just a generally observation
18:56	mrsolo	so i don't know what the point of AOT is...other than not shipping the source code :-)
18:57	Chousuke	well, you need it for gen-class
18:57	technomancy	mrsolo: interop with Java APIs that require Real Classes, mostly
18:58	mrsolo	ah right
19:02	mrsolo	well just finish my first 'not a toy' clojure program
19:04	mrsolo	sure took longer for me to construct comparing to my other languages..hopefully this will improve over time fast
19:09	Chousuke	mrsolo: is clojure your first functional-programming language?
19:09	Chousuke	mrsolo: it takes a while to get used to it :)
19:09	mrsolo	hmm
19:09	mrsolo	no really
19:09	mrsolo	more functional than rest yes
19:09	mrsolo	i did scheme for few months years back
19:10	mrsolo	currently is mostly ruby now
19:10	mrsolo	it isn't functional style slowing me down anywa.. it is lack of familiarity with apis
19:10	Chousuke	ah, well, that SHOULD improve :)
19:11	Chousuke	and I SHOULD be sleeping :P
19:11	scgilardi	thanks for all the work today, chousuke and cemerick!
19:30	hsuh	anyone knows how to express this with loop/recur ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/82020
19:31	ctdean	Just replace your call back to draw-circle with recur
19:31	hsuh	but recur has to be the last statement... and there are two calls the way its written
19:31	hsuh	right?
19:32	ctdean	youre right
19:32	ctdean	I miss-read while as if
19:33	ctdean	err, when as if
19:33	Chousuke	hmm
19:33	Chousuke	there's probably no simple way to make that into a loop.
19:34	Chousuke	at least, it won't be nearly as elegant as the recursive version :/
19:35	hsuh	oh, ok. i just wanted to check that.. its not really a problem now :)
19:35	Chousuke	ctdean: can you remove the other draw-circle call and just add an ellipse call?
19:36	Chousuke	hmm
19:36	hsuh	for this solution i think so.. i could even rewrite it with level being a list do map perhaps
19:36	ctdean	chousuke: nope. it's describing a tree and we're walking that tree
19:36	hsuh	s/do/to
19:36	ctdean	I could be wrong :)
19:37	hsuh	but i wanted to check because it seems like a general "divide and conquer" problem.. i guess
19:37	ctdean	The way I would approach it is either leave as is and hope that level isn't too big, or describe the problem as a sequence and evaluate the sequence
19:38	hsuh	ctdean: only 6 recursive calls now :) not a problem
19:38	ctdean	hsuh: yea, don't worry about it
19:39	ctdean	My functional-fu is weak
19:39	ctdean	You'd think it would be better after years of scheme
19:41	Chousuke	hmm
19:41	Chousuke	you say the data structure is a tree?
19:41	Chousuke	,(doc tree-seq)
19:41	clojurebot	"([branch? children root]); Returns a lazy sequence of the nodes in a tree, via a depth-first walk. branch? must be a fn of one arg that returns true if passed a node that can have children (but may not). children must be a fn of one arg that returns a sequence of the children. Will only be called on nodes for which branch? returns true. Root is the root node of the tree."
19:42	ctdean	Yes, that would be my appoach, or rethink the algorthim
19:42	Chousuke	~def tree-seq
19:43	lisppaste8	hsuh annotated #82020 "with doseq" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82020#1
19:44	ctdean	I'm too sleepy to tell if that's the same, sorry
19:45	hsuh	im tripping.. thats obviously not the same
19:45	Chousuke	yeah, I was wondering.
19:45	hsuh	:( embarassing...
19:45	ctdean	lol, it's all good
19:45	mrsolo	tree-seq is very nice :-)
19:45	hsuh	if i write a proper list comprehension, then i'd have a chance
19:46	mrsolo	file-seq however is very limited
19:46	mrsolo	i ended up modified the original so i can pass few functions
19:46	ctdean	SO you can prune dirs ands such?
19:46	mrsolo	ya
19:46	mrsolo	and depth
19:46	mrsolo	otherwise things explode
19:46	Chousuke	mrsolo: modified how?
19:47	mrsolo	wrap filter fucntion around listfiles
19:47	mrsolo	and pass in breath? function
19:48	mrsolo	so i can control if a particular directory needs to be expanded and what is the result of expansion and such, simple stuff
19:48	mrsolo	that speed up large directory processing considerablly :-)
19:50	hsuh	how can i have a lazy list of some number divided by 2 [20 10 5 ..] ?
19:51	hiredman	map
19:51	ctdean	(take 10 (iterate #(/ % 2) 20))
19:51	ctdean	~take 10 (iterate #(/ % 2) 20))
19:51	clojurebot	Pardon?
19:51	Chousuke	use ,
19:51	ctdean	~(take 10 (iterate #(/ % 2) 20))
19:52	clojurebot	Excuse me?
19:52	ctdean	yea, oops
19:52	ctdean	,(take 10 (iterate #(/ % 2) 20))
19:52	clojurebot	(20 10 5 5/2 5/4 5/8 5/16 5/32 5/64 5/128)
19:52	ctdean	You always just use loop too
19:52	hiredman	ctdean: not lazy
19:52	Chousuke	or for
19:53	Chousuke	hmm, actually, it's trickier :)
19:53	ctdean	Isn't iterate lazy?
19:53	hiredman	it is
19:54	Chousuke	yes
19:54	hiredman	I meant loop/recur is not lazy
19:54	ctdean	oh! yes
20:05	hsuh	how can i generate this vector? [[0 5] [1 6
20:05	hsuh	[[0 5] [1 6] [2 7]]... using range?
20:07	Chousuke	,(map vector (range 3) (range 5 8))
20:07	clojurebot	([0 5] [1 6] [2 7])
20:08	hsuh	tks
20:08	Chousuke	,(vec (map vector (range 3) (range 5 8)))
20:08	clojurebot	[[0 5] [1 6] [2 7]]
20:08	Chousuke	:P
20:23	mrsolo	http://briancarper.net/blog/five-things-that-mildly-annoy-me-in-clojure
20:23	mrsolo	yep.. got bitten by some heh
20:24	replaca	mrsolo: saw that. I tend to agree with those, much as I love clojure.
20:24	mrsolo	i predict any? will show up :-)
20:24	ctdean	For the record: I wish java (and clojure) had TCO. No matter what he says
20:25	mrsolo	TCO?
20:25	ctdean	tail call optimization
20:25	mrsolo	ya
20:25	mrsolo	well he is waiting for jvm implementation right?
20:26	ctdean	The author of that blog post said noone who uses clojure loses sleep over TCO.
20:27	mrsolo	you can get aroun dit
20:27	mrsolo	just not as..nice
20:27	ctdean	The clojure way is an engineering compromise, seems like a good trade off to me
20:28	mrsolo	you can't really do continuation passing style without tco right?
20:29	ctdean	You can always use tampolining, if that's your thing
20:30	mrsolo	that hash thing sure is a suprise
20:31	ctdean	yea, it's annoying
21:36	durka42	whoa
22:09	hiredman	~everybody is <reply>everybody looks good in a shineheart
22:09	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
22:09	durka42	a what now
22:10	hiredman	pardon me
22:10	hiredman	~everybody is <reply>everybody looks good in a sheinhardt
22:10	clojurebot	Roger.
22:11	durka42	~google sheinhardt
22:11	clojurebot	First, out of 887 results is:
22:11	clojurebot	Sheinhardt Wig Company — Blogs, Pictures, and more on WordPress
22:11	clojurebot	http://en.wordpress.com/tag/sheinhardt-wig-company/
22:19	arohner	is there a way to control the repl prompt?
22:19	arohner	like $PS1
22:20	hiredman	,(doc clojure.main/prompt)
22:20	clojurebot	"/;nil; "
22:20	hiredman	,(doc clojure.main/prompt?)
22:20	clojurebot	"/;nil; "
22:20	hiredman	oh
22:20	Chouser	the contrib repl can do that I think
22:20	hiredman	darn
22:20	durka42	,(use 'clojure.contrib.repl-ln)
22:20	clojurebot	nil
22:21	durka42	(doc repl-prompt)
22:21	clojurebot	"([]); Returns the current repl prompt based on this repl's prompt-fmt"
22:22	arohner	hrm, slime isn't too happy with it
22:23	rabidsnail	Is there a way to test if a particular var is defined?
22:25	arohner	I can probably just binding clojure.main/repl-prompt
22:25	durka42	rabidsnail: resolve
22:25	durka42	,(resolve 'not-defined)
22:25	clojurebot	nil
22:25	durka42	,(resolve 'print)
22:25	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/print
22:26	rabidsnail	excellent
22:59	JAS415	is there a way to make clojure.contrib.http.agents return anything other than headers?
23:00	arohner	grr, it appears slime hard codes the slime prompt, and doesn't work if I change the clojure.main/repl-prompt
23:38	jtal	anyone know the story of re-split ?
23:39	jtal	I've come across it in the book a few times and I dont think I saw anything that mentioned ints in str-utils
23:52	arohner	,(doc clojure.contrib.str-utils/re-split)
23:52	clojurebot	"/;nil; "
23:52	arohner	hrm
23:52	arohner	anyways, it's there
23:53	jtal	yeah, I know its there
23:53	hiredman	,(doc re-split)
23:53	clojurebot	"clojure.contrib.str-utils/re-split;[[pattern string] [pattern string limit]]; Splits the string on instances of 'pattern'. Returns a sequence of strings. Optional 'limit' argument is the maximum number of splits. Like Perl's 'split'."
23:53	jtal	just wondering why its used in the first few chapters of the book as if it was loaded
23:53	jtal	maybe I missed something that said "load this"