#clojure – 2009-06-16

2009-06-16

00:22	arohner	is there an api for an agent like call, where I don't care about the return value?
00:23	arohner	I just want to call a fn in another thread
00:39	hiredman	arohner: future
00:39	hiredman	(.start (Thread. some-function))
00:39	hiredman	etc
00:40	arohner	hiredman: thanks
01:07	arohner	sigh. I wrote my own shell functions before finding chouser's excellent c.c.shell-out
02:19	tbatchelli2	hi, does anyone here know how to obtain a function from a string? For example, I have a string "book", and I want to find the function #'user/book-controller. I found the following way, but looks too convoluted: (var-get (find-var (symbol "user" (str "book" "-controller"))))
02:22	hiredman	erm
02:23	hiredman	vars dispatch .invoke to their contents
02:23	hiredman	so you don't need the var-get
02:23	kotarak	Though, that might go away, IIRC.
02:23	hiredman	orly
02:24	hiredman	:(
02:24	hiredman	that would be very annoying
02:24	tbatchelli2	well, what I am trying to do is a form of introspection
02:24	hiredman	tbatchelli2: that's how it's done
02:25	tbatchelli2	ok... thanks! good to know :)
02:57	replaca	anyone here to remind a sleepy guy of the fastest way to do a counter (i.e. each time a get it i get the next int)?
02:58	replaca	called from different parts of the program, so stateful-ish
02:59	stuhood	atom and agent won't work... gotta try a ref?
03:00	replaca	why won't (swap! at inc) on an atom 'at' work?
03:00	replaca	am I missing something?
03:01	stuhood	you could replace any value that was already in the atom right? if you were decrementing
03:01	stuhood	ah, no, nevermind.
03:01	replaca	yeah, i just want a mechanism to get an int that keeps increasing
03:02	replaca	basically, I want to put ids on things so I don't have to = the structures to see if they're the same
03:02	stuhood	yea, that should work, sorry about that
03:03	replaca	cool, thx
03:04	replaca	but thinking about it, what I really want is just to use identical? !
03:10	stuhood	haha, oops
03:11	stuhood	also, clojure caches the hashes of structures, since they are immutable, so (=) might not be that terrible either
03:12	stuhood	anyway, late for me too. sorry for the stupid advice =)
03:12	stuhood	g'night
03:14	replaca	goodnight. thanks!
04:45	lowlycoder	what's a goodd database backend to use with clojure?
05:04	eleftherios	rys: pragmatic programmers responded to my emails, explaining in detail what the problem is with the epub and that they are at the mercy of the device for the code which they had to render in bitmap
05:04	eleftherios	but they are trying to resolve now
05:04	eleftherios	and their emails were nice this time
05:05	rys	Ah, that's great
05:05	eleftherios	so maybe we'll have an updated version soon, they are doing test chapters
05:05	eleftherios	with wrapped code
05:05	eleftherios	it is not ideal but may be better than truncated code
05:06	eleftherios	rys: I'll let you know :-)
05:06	rys	cheers, that's much appreciated :)
05:06	rys	And that's reminded me to check if my local bookstore has the print copy yet
05:07	rys	Nope, still waiting for stock :(
05:07	eleftherios	amazon doesn't either?
05:07	eleftherios	they are fast at delivering
05:09	rys	I could try amazon I guess
05:09	eleftherios	they even have next day delivery
06:47	eevar2	what lazy sequence operation would you use to encapsulate 'expanding' a sequence, e.g. factoring a number? -- i'm currently using loop + recur, which might not be 100% ideomatic clojure
06:51	achim	eevar2: can you give an example of how input and output of the operation are supposed to look like?
06:59	eevar2	achim: atm i'm doing something like this: (loop [output [] generator n]) .... (recur (conj ouput (expand(generator))) (- generator 1) )
07:00	jdz	looks very much like an infinite loop to me
07:00	eevar2	eventually (expand generator) returns []
07:01	jdz	oh, there are dots in there
07:03	eevar2	yea, silly pseudo code with errors
07:03	eevar2	and a missing exit condition
07:06	Chousuke	eevar2: so wait, "output" will be a vector of what, some items?
07:07	eevar2	yup
07:07	achim	eevar2: that look much like (map expand (iterate dec n))
07:08	achim	what do the dots do? do they affect output or generator?
07:08	Chousuke	iterate will go past 0 if you let it, though :)
07:08	achim	the loop will as well :)
07:08	Chousuke	good point :P
07:09	eevar2	never mind about that example code. i want to do (expand generator), collecting the output as a sequence until it returns []
07:10	Chousuke	is generator stateful somehow? :/
07:10	Chousuke	or does expand feed it different values?
07:11	achim	do you want a seq of generator, expand(generator), expand^2(generator), ... ?
07:11	eevar2	generator is actually a number that i'm factoring
07:11	Chousuke	ah
07:12	Chousuke	you want to factor a number, then factor what it returns until it returns "nothing"?
07:12	Chousuke	to get teh final factorisation
07:12	Chousuke	hmm
07:13	achim	(take-while (complement seq) (iterate expand generator)) or somethin like that?
07:13	achim	(untested)
07:14	achim	ah, nonsense, leave out the complement
07:15	eevar2	okies, so what i've been looking for is the 'iterate' function
07:49	Xcalibor	greetings
07:50	Xcalibor	any example of how to construct as hash-map by parsing the lines of a very big file? should I rebind inside a (let [] )?
08:29	frodef	I'm trying to create a JTree with nodes, where each node is displayed by taking it's userobject's toString method.
08:30	frodef	..how do I set up a userobject that both implements a suitable toString and another callback function?
08:30	jdz	proxy?
08:31	frodef	I can do e.g (proxy [Object] [] (toString [] "foo")), but then how would I add my own callback method/function/whatever?
08:31	frodef	just adding another method besides toString doesn't seem to work.
08:32	frodef	I guess the method has to be part of some interface?
08:32	jdz	yes
08:32	hoeck	frodef: you could create your own interface with gen-interface
08:32	frodef	I couldn't get gen-interface to work..
08:33	frodef	that is, proxy couldn't resolve the interface I tried to create.
08:33	hoeck	one drawback is, once created, the interface cannot change
08:33	cemerick	frodef: are you trying to implement an existing callback interface related to TreeNodes, or your own interface?
08:33	frodef	my own interface (just one simple callback method)
08:33	cemerick	frodef: Then you'll want to do something like (proxy [YourInterfaceName] [] ...)
08:33	Chouser	frodef: May I suggest AFn?
08:34	frodef	Chouser: That I proxy the AFn interface?
08:34	Chouser	(def myfoo (proxy [AFn] [] (toString [] "foo") (invoke [arg1] ...)))
08:34	Chouser	right
08:34	Chouser	then you can call the invoke method by doing: (myfoo 5)
08:35	hoeck	why not IFn?
08:35	frodef	Chouser: that was actually one thought I hadd too, but I didn't know what the name of the class was :) thanks.
08:35	frodef	..so what's AFn vs. IFn?
08:35	Chouser	IFn is a pure interface, no implementation.
08:36	Xcalibor	re's... damned connection... sorry to ask again, but is there any example of how to construct as hash-map by parsing the lines of a very big file? should I rebind inside a (let [] )?
08:36	hoeck	what I'm always wondering is wether all those interfaces are actually part of the official clojure language or more or less implementation details
08:36	jdz	Xcalibor: conj?
08:36	Xcalibor	hoek: AFAIK and following the docs, it seems it's a part of the language itself
08:36	Xcalibor	jdz conj, I'll have a look at it, thx!
08:36	Chouser	AFn is an abstract base class -- it'll throw arity exception if the wrong number of args are given and it'll support 'apply' calls automatically
08:37	jdz	Xcalibor: well, for a hash map you may want to look at assoc, too
08:37	jdz	Xcalibor: but i must confess i don't quite see what your problem is from the question as stated
08:37	Xcalibor	jdz: nod... assoc does what I want, but my trouble is with the new data
08:37	frodef	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Can't resolve: AFn (NO_SOURCE_FILE:359)
08:38	jdz	Xcalibor: assoc adds the new data
08:38	hoeck	frodef: clojure.lang.AFn, or import it first
08:38	jdz	Xcalibor: you just must use the returned value of assoc
08:38	Xcalibor	I have a huge CSV file and I have to construct a hash-map from parsing the file lines... trouble is I cannot load it all at once, so I have to go line-by-line and recreating the hash... that's why I was asking, considering they are inmutable...
08:39	AWizzArd	Xcalibor: put a ref on the hashmap then
08:39	Xcalibor	a ref...
08:39	AWizzArd	(def data (ref {}))
08:39	jdz	nah, no ref needed
08:39	frodef	hoeck: oh right, thanks.
08:39	cemerick	Xcalibor: to be clear, assoc doesn't copy the hash-map
08:39	Xcalibor	mmm... I don't yet know those...
08:40	jdz	just loop/recur all the lines and collect stuff in your hash map or whatever
08:40	Xcalibor	cemerick: nod, it adds the new data and returns a new hash-map with the old and new keys and values...
08:40	mattrepl	Xcalibor: (into {} (map #(re-split some-delimiter %) (line-seq some-reader))) doesn't work?
08:40	cemerick	Xcalibor: right, I just thought I'd mention it since you said "recreating the hash"...
08:41	Xcalibor	thing is, I am not supposed to (def myhash (assoc myhash :key val))
08:41	Xcalibor	mattrepl: I haven't tried, to be true I didn't know that was even possible...
08:41	cemerick	right, you want to gather the data from each line into a hashmap, which mattrepl showed an example of above
08:42	Xcalibor	OK, I'll give it a try! I guess I won't be able to use read-lines from duck-streams, though
08:44	cemerick	Xcalibor: read-lines and line-seq are mostly interchangeable...
08:44	Xcalibor	cemerik: ah, cool... I'm testing right now
08:53	Xcalibor	I have a small problem though: a sample line is: A;B;C how do I split it so Hashmap accepts the first entry as the key and the rest as a list or vector as a value?
08:54	Chouser	,(seq (.split "A;B;C" ";" 2))
08:54	durka42	~marco
08:55	durka42	(let [parts (.split "A;B;C" ";")] (assoc the-map (first parts) (next parts)))
08:55	Xcalibor	Chouser: ah, I see, seq allows me to limit the number of chunks it's splitted into... I can then split it further if needed...
08:56	durka42	no, seq is just for making it into something you can see at the REPL instead of an ugly java L[;String thing
08:56	durka42	(in this case)
08:58	Chouser	Xcalibor: durka42 is right -- it's the String .split() method that takes a number limiting how much to split it.
09:01	Xcalibor	aha
09:04	Xcalibor	well, it's proving something a little bit difficult, because into doesn't like my entries... I'll keep digging and let you know, brb
09:08	Chouser	(into {} foo) wants foo to be a seq of 2-item vectors, like: ([:a 1] [:b 2])
09:09	Chouser	maybe (into {} (map #(vec (.split % ";" 2)) (line-seq myfile))
09:31	frodef	I have some dynamic bindings that (obviously) aren't visibile from the swing event thread.. is there some idiomatic way to deal with this?
09:33	Chouser	I think the normal route is to stuff the dynamic values you need into lexicals.
09:34	Chouser	(let [foo foo] (Swing/invokeLater #(prn foo)))
09:35	Chouser	something like that, to get the value of dynamic var foo (at the time the invocation is scheduled) and make it available for prn (or whatever) in the other thread.
09:35	Chouser	will something like that work?
09:35	Chouser	I've seen macros that bundle several values like this for you, but I'm not finding any of them at the moment.
09:39	Xcalibor	Chouser: ah, with that vector mapping it seems to work!
09:41	frodef	Chouser: sure, that works fine. Just a bit of a hassle.
09:41	frodef	thanks
09:48	Xcalibor	Chouser: it would be nice to be able to map into the vector the first and the rest of a full .split, though, so I don't have to process them afterwards
09:48	Chouser	you want the semi-separated second part to be in a vector?
09:48	Chouser	{"A" ["B" "C"]} ?
09:51	Xcalibor	yup!
09:51	Xcalibor	I am trying to get that inside the #(vec ) map but it's not working so far... insofar I need to evaluate the element twice: one for the first, and then a second time for the rest
09:52	Chouser	Xcalibor: (let [[k & v] (.split "A;B;C" ";")] [k (vec v)])
09:55	Xcalibor	ah, cool! I can use it inside that #() thing--- a reader macro, maybe?
09:55	Chouser	yes
09:56	Xcalibor	Chouser: nevertheless that works beatifully, thanks a lot!
09:56	Chouser	sure!
10:19	Chousuke	hmhm
10:20	Chousuke	improving the error messages for defn etc. seems to be not so trivial ;/
10:22	Chousuke	they all do treat their arguments similarly but they're defined separately so I have to duplicate the checks everywhere. and not all of clojure is available for all of them, which makes it fairly cumbersome. :P
10:22	Chousuke	maybe it'd be easier to define a checkless defn etc. first and then later redefine it using itself with the checks :P
10:37	Xcalibor	well, I am obviously obtuse today, but I don't seem to find a way to splice a list?
10:41	cemerick	,(partition 3 (range 10))
10:41	cemerick	hrm, no bot?
10:43	cemerick	Xcalibor: lots of ways. partition, split-with, split-at, etc.
10:45	Xcalibor	cemerik: i see... off I go to read the docs, thx!
11:07	cemerick	map-invert should really be moved into clojure.core.
11:08	dnolen_	cemerick: what are you using that for?
11:08	cemerick	dnolen_: inverting maps ;-)
11:08	dnolen_	heh, i know
11:09	dnolen_	but what's a common case where you need to do that?
11:10	cemerick	when you have a bunch of values A that can be associated with some set of keys B, and you want to be able to quickly answer queries like "which elements are associated with key X" and "what key is associated with value Y".
11:10	cemerick	visualization of overlapping datasets, in my current specific case
11:10	opqdonut	(float-array x y) doesn't create a real two-dimensional array?
11:11	stuartsierra	Java doesn't have "real" 2-d arrays.
11:11	dnolen_	opqdonut: and you should avoid them, dereferencing them is dog slow.
11:11	opqdonut	well, i gotta do what the api tells me
11:11	dnolen_	cemerick: aww, nice.
11:12	opqdonut	(make-array (. Float TYPE) x y) works
11:12	cemerick	heh, I don't think there is such a thing as "real" 2D arrays, given computer architectures over the past 50 years or so. :-P
11:12	stuartsierra	What you're getting there is an array of pointers to arrays, not a 2-d array.
11:12	dnolen_	opqdonut: gotcha, you need to talk to a specific Java interface.
11:13	stuartsierra	oh, I see
11:13	stuhood	opqdonut: (make-array Float x y) should do the same thing
11:13	cemerick	opqdonut: you definitely want make-array -- float-array (and it's cousins) use the second value as an initial value, not an additional dimension.
11:14	cemerick	stuhood: nope, Float gives you Float[][] -- Float/TYPE gives you float[][]
11:14	stuhood	cemerick: oo, thanks.
11:15	cemerick	yeah, array type params don't get unboxed on the way out.
11:15	cemerick	e.g. Float -> float, but Float[] -/> float[]
11:16	DTrejo	good morning guys
11:16	DTrejo	could someone tell me how I might get this to work? http://mibbit.com/pb/Ynef2e
11:17	DTrejo	thanks
11:20	achim	DTrejo: works for me - did you try this in a fresh REPL?
11:21	cemerick	DTrejo: works here too -- also, you might want to look at only the first 20 values (using (take 20 fibs)) rather than println, which will print forever.
11:21	Chouser	cemerick: right, because float is not an Object, but float[] is.
11:21	opqdonut	cemerick: ahhhhh
11:21	opqdonut	i misread the docs
11:23	achim	DTrejo: what does it say if you just enter "println" and hit enter? (no parentheses)
11:23	DTrejo	achim: I'll play around with it some more
11:23	cemerick	huh, I've actually never seen a fibonacci impl like that :-)
11:23	DTrejo	its from the programming clojure book
11:24	cemerick	Mine hasn't arrived yet.
11:24	DTrejo	achim: it crashes my repl
11:24	DTrejo	so pitiful :(
11:25	achim	DTrejo: might it be that you accidentally redefined println?
11:25	DTrejo	well, what you see in the pastebin is all the code in that file
11:26	DTrejo	is there some way to accidentally redefine println from outside of that file or something?
11:27	cemerick	you'd have to do something like (defn println ...)
11:27	Chouser	but that won't do anything harmful unless you're in the core namespace, which is an odd place to be.
11:27	DTrejo	oh I didnt do that, so that's not it I don't think
11:27	cemerick	DTrejo: just out of curiosity, what is the value of clojure-version?
11:28	Chouser	DTrejo: can you paste the stack trace you get when you try println with no parens?
11:28	DTrejo	to print the version: (println clojure-version) ?
11:29	cemerick	just clojure-version will do
11:29	cemerick	including the asterisks
11:30	DTrejo	it tells me it is not defined: "1:2 user=> java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: clojure-version in this context (repl-1:1)"
11:30	cemerick	DTrejo: sounds like you have an old version....
11:30	Chouser	DTrejo: that means pre-1.0. Where/when did you get it?
11:30	DTrejo	that would be a problem hmm
11:30	cemerick	ah, which would explain the classcastexception
11:31	cemerick	(wasn't lazy-cat a mapcat in early lazy impls?)
11:34	DTrejo	thanks for the help, now i'll try and download a new version of clojure
11:35	DTrejo	should I download 1.0 or go for the latest release?
11:36	DTrejo	Clojure release 20090320
11:36	Chousuke	1.0 is latest.
11:37	Chousuke	but, hmm
11:37	DTrejo	I
11:38	Chousuke	now I managed to get argument checking for fn a bit nicer
11:38	DTrejo	I'd rather not be cutting edge
11:38	Chousuke	user=> (fn ([] 1) foo)
11:38	Chousuke	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Malformed arguments. Expected: a function overload of the form ([params] body-exprs); got: foo (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
11:38	DTrejo	so if I stick with 1.0 I will be fine Chousuke ?
11:38	Chousuke	yeah
11:39	Chousuke	it's the latest release :)
11:43	DTrejo	how do you guys recommend I go about learning clojure?
11:43	Chouser	DTrejo: did you say you had the book already?
11:43	DTrejo	I do, but it is not the latest version
11:44	Xcalibor	well, gotta go.. thanks for all, it's working around nicely :-)
11:44	Xcalibor	laters!
11:44	Chousuke	http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/
11:44	DTrejo	it's probably a good idea to keep going thru the book, but if there was anything else I could do
11:45	Chousuke	the LONG article is a fairly good introducion
11:45	Chousuke	+t
11:45	la_mer	DTrejo: The book is current through v1.0...definitely the place to start, if you like books.
11:47	DTrejo	thanks Chousuke
11:49	DTrejo	I downloaded 1.0, but I wonder if I need to update my clojure-contrib.jar as well?
11:49	Chouser	DTrejo: possibly, depending on how old it is.
11:50	DTrejo	I don't see it here: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/downloads/list
11:50	la_mer	DTrejo: I would. FYI, svn rev 756 is the one that corresponds with clojure v1.0
11:50	DTrejo	oh wow I noticed the version I have is .2
11:50	DTrejo	so yea I probably need a r756
11:52	Chousuke	clojure-contrib is still only available from git/SVN
11:52	xcalibor	re's... that was short :-)
11:53	Chousuke	hm. apparently contrib's not at git yet after all
11:54	DTrejo	I hate all this configuration braindeath
11:54	xcalibor	Chousuke, I got to get it grom svn just last night
11:54	DTrejo	and I have to remember it's not even bad compared to regular lisp
11:55	cemerick	DTrejo: it really should be as easy as grabbing clojure v1.0 and putting it in your classpath...
11:55	Chouser	we should have a .jar with clojure 1.0 and contrib together.
11:56	stuartsierra	yes
11:56	cemerick	it seems that, once c-c moves to git, the clojure mainline should be added as a submodule, and the c-c build process made to spit out a bare c-c.jar and a clj+c-c.jar
11:57	Chouser	clojure 1.0 is a zip not a jar, right? Do we know why that is?
11:57	Chousuke	Who will maintain a 1.0 branch of contrib? :P
11:58	Chouser	cemerick: most people who clone contrib already have clojure, don't they?
11:58	xcalibor	how do I specify a reverse sort-by? because (sort-by (fn [x] (last x)) '([:a 2] [:b 1])) returns ([:b 1] [:a 2]) as expected...
11:58	DTrejo	cemerick: so I won't have a problem with a really old version of clojure contrib with my clojure jar at version 1.0?
11:58	Chouser	Chousuke: the same people who maintain clojure 1.0 branch.
11:58	Chousuke	is someone actually maintaining it? :D
11:58	cemerick	DTrejo: no, you definitely want to upgrade clojure contrib, if you're using it.
11:58	DTrejo	kk
11:58	Chouser	Chousuke: is it broken?
11:59	cemerick	Chouser: well, c-c needs clj for a proper build anyway, so adding the latter as a submodule is appropriate.
11:59	Chouser	if not, I say it's "maintained" at least at the moment.
12:00	Chousuke	cemerick: but then you might end up with two clojure clones :/
12:00	Chousuke	cemerick: or your clojure clone will be a subdir under clojure-contrib.
12:01	Chousuke	I think it
12:01	cemerick	Chousuke: that's bad?
12:01	Chousuke	it's too complicated to be worth it. :/
12:01	cemerick	everyone uses c-c, and it needs a clojure jar to be built properly. Seems like that process should be as straightforward as possible.
12:02	Chousuke	they could also not want a clone at all, instead they would use a downloaded clojure jar
12:02	cemerick	well, it's TBD how and where a "unified" clojure+c-c jar file is being produced, then.
12:03	DTrejo	so there's no easy way at the moment to get both at once?
12:03	Chouser	Well, Wrexsoul doesn't use contrib.
12:03	Chousuke	DTrejo: there's the clojure box for windows :P
12:03	cemerick	DTrejo: not in one jar file, no. Two jar files aren't a big deal, though IMO :-)
12:04	DTrejo	oh I just meant download them both, not necessarily as one file. But I i'll look into clojure box now, since it probably has both jars that I need
12:05	technomancy	so who wants to write a dependency injection library for Clojure?
12:06	Chouser	technomancy: well, I don't want to use bleeding edge contrib code, so I'm just going to use snippets of public domain code from the google group.
12:06	cemerick	technomancy: waitaminute -- we've got to haggle about guice vs. spring first! :-P
12:07	technomancy	maybe we could implement it using a library that provides M-expressions
12:07	technomancy	so newbies will want to use it
12:08	technomancy	sorry.
12:08	technomancy	I'm done.
12:11	DTrejo	alright, I guess I'm switching to use clojure box now, just gotta get over the emacs learning curve hehe
12:11	xcalibor	mmm... sort-by uses a Collator... how do I create one to do a reverse sort on a numerical vector, for example?
12:13	Chouser	,(sort #(compare (last %2) (last %1)) '([:a 2] [:b 1]))
12:13	DTrejo	arg I'm already overwhelmed :(
12:13	Chouser	DTrejo: I wouldn't recommend trying emacs just to avoid fetching contrib yourself.
12:14	DTrejo	lol
12:14	gnuvince	user=> (sort #(compare (count %1) (count %2)) ["aaa" "bb" "c"])
12:14	gnuvince	("c" "bb" "aaa")
12:14	xcalibor	ah, that was just cool, Chouser... thanks a bunch!
12:15	xcalibor	gnuvince, thanks, I see... I'll have to study #() carefully to understand that, though :-P
12:15	gnuvince	xcalibor: oh sorry. (fn [a b] (compare (count b) (count a))) is equivalent
12:15	Chouser	(sort-by count ["aaa" "bb" "c"]) ==> ("c" "bb" "aaa")
12:15	gnuvince	#() is syntactic sugar for anonymous functions that I happen to use probably too often.
12:16	xcalibor	gnuvince, #() is just a lambda?
12:16	Chouser	I miss clojurebot
12:16	gnuvince	#(print %) => (fn [x] (print x))
12:16	xcalibor	no, I have already met it, it's my fault for not understanding it by then :-)
12:16	xcalibor	cool, very useful, thanks
12:16	gnuvince	you can use %1, %2, etc. to refer to multiple parameters.
12:16	gnuvince	xcalibor: beware that #() do not nest.
12:17	gnuvince	Chouser: who took him offline?
12:17	xcalibor	I see... well, most of the time it will be for things like these anyway... and you can put a proper lambda inside, right?
12:17	gnuvince	Yes
12:17	Chouser	xcalibor: also beware that #([1 2 3]) is not (fn [] [1 2 3])
12:18	Chouser	gnuvince: dunno, I assume he died of natural causes and hiredman hasn't noticed yet.
12:18	gnuvince	Chouser: ok
12:19	xcalibor	Chouser: I see... thanks, I'll try to remember :-)
12:23	xcalibor	OK, now I understand it, cool :-)
12:23	xcalibor	thanks a bunch, guys... laters!
12:24	DTrejo	have a good day guys, thanks for the help
12:37	mib_xusidq	,(use 'clojure.contrib.repl-utils :only '(source))
12:40	mib_xusidq	clojurebot: where are you?
12:41	jkantz	I've used maven to simplify dependency management
12:41	jkantz	have a look at http://github.com/kantzhub/clojure2go
12:41	Chousuke	urgh.
12:41	jkantz	what would be nice if clojure and contrib were in maven repo
12:42	technomancy	jkantz: clojure is on the list
12:42	technomancy	but it moves slowly
12:42	Chousuke	I have an idea for improving destructure but its current implementation makes my brain hurt.
12:42	jkantz	cool is it clojure 1.0?
12:42	technomancy	jkantz: contrib hasn't seen an official release yet, so it hasn't been submitted
12:42	technomancy	yes
12:42	technomancy	jkantz: also: I've been working on my own little deps management tool that wraps maven: http://github.com/technomancy/corkscrew
12:42	duck1123	Maven works great if all the deps you need are in a repository
12:43	duck1123	horribly if not
12:43	jkantz	easy enough to install a jar locally
12:43	stuartsierra	Can't you create a "local" repository?
12:43	technomancy	duck1123: that's why corkscrew also lets you install out of a git or svn repository.
12:43	duck1123	technomancy: did you get the maven integration working yet?
12:43	technomancy	duck1123: no! I'm stuck on one tiny little showstopper that's driving me nuts.
12:43	technomancy	you can't use the MavenCli class out of the box because it needs to be run out of a plexus component repository
12:44	technomancy	I have no idea what that means.
12:44	technomancy	but I've been banging my head against that for quite some time now.
12:44	technomancy	so... if anyone knows how plexus works I would be grateful for some help
12:44	duck1123	It was driving me nuts the other day trying to build a clojure:repl goal for the clojure-maven-plugin
12:45	duck1123	it shouldn't be this hard to simply run a program from java with the in/out bound properly
12:45	duck1123	I gave up and switched to better things
12:46	technomancy	yeah, I've tabled it until I can get a lead on how that stuff works.
12:46	technomancy	the documentation is incomprehensible
12:46	jkantz	yeah maven is a bit of a swamp
12:47	technomancy	the plexus documentation assumes you are familiar with the problem it's designed to solve, but I can't even understand what the problem is because I don't use crap languages that are prone to it.
12:47	cemerick	jkantz: hrm, that's generous :-)
12:49	technomancy	so any help (hint, hint) would be awesome. I don't think it's particularly tricky once you understand what's going on.
12:52	jkantz	technomancy, corkscrew looks neat, will have to take a closer sometime soon
12:53	mib_xusidq	trying to build clojure, I get this: file:C:/clojure/build.xml:1: Unexpected attribute "xmlns:mvn"
12:53	mib_xusidq	do I just need a newer Ant?
12:54	mib_xusidq	or do I need Maven?
12:54	technomancy	jkantz: it currently works fine (for an alpha) as long as you're OK with launching mvn as a subprocess with shell-out instead of using it in the same VM.
12:54	technomancy	but that's super-lame
12:56	jkantz	poll: what editors do people use?
12:56	technomancy	emacs
12:58	mib_xusidq	jkantz: do you have a statistically significant result yet? ;)
12:59	duck1123	technomancy: do you keep your source in src/ or src/main/clojure/
12:59	duck1123	100% of clojure users use emacs (+- 99.99%)
12:59	stuartsierra	emacs
13:00	liebke	vim
13:00	jkantz	you can get a programmer to try a new language, but ask him/her to switch editors ...
13:00	cemerick	enclojure
13:01	gnuvince	emacs
13:01	technomancy	duck1123: just src
13:01	technomancy	duck1123: I don't get paid by the directory.
13:04	duck1123	technomancy: you should make your src locations customizable in your el files.
13:04	technomancy	duck1123: which elisp library in particular?
13:05	duck1123	corkscrew and clojure-test-mode are the two I've come across
13:07	Chousuke	,(destructure '[[x y] [1 2]])
13:07	Chousuke	hm
13:07	Chousuke	where did clojurebot go :(
13:09	gnuvince	NPE I imagine
13:09	gnuvince	;)
13:10	Chousuke	behold my new and improved destructure! first, the old:
13:10	Chousuke	(destructure '[[x [y z]] [1 [(int 2) [c]]]])
13:10	Chousuke	[vec__10 [1 [(int 2) [c]]] x (clojure.core/nth vec__10 0 nil) vec__11 (clojure.core/nth vec__10 1 nil) y (clojure.core/nth vec__11 0 nil) z (clojure.core/nth vec__11 1 nil)]
13:10	Chousuke	(destructure '[[x [y z]] [1 [(int 2) [c]]]])
13:10	Chousuke	[x 1 y (int 2) z [c]]
13:10	Chousuke	:)
13:10	Chousuke	though there's a slight problem still.
13:11	rhickey	hrm, Assembla supports only edit or view rights for various subsystems including tickets, kind of a pain vs gcode where non-members could only enter/view/comment on tickets
13:11	rhickey	I'm concerned about gicing non-members full edit rights...
13:12	rhickey	giving
13:12	gnuvince	Chousuke: does it work with non-vector collections such as lists?
13:12	rhickey	http://forum.assembla.com/forums/3-Bug-reports/topics/1500-Non-members-can-make-themselves-watchers?page=1#posts-4775
13:12	Chousuke	gnuvince: not yet
13:12	duck1123	rhickey: you don't want bug reports about viagra?
13:12	gnuvince	Chousuke: ok
13:13	gnuvince	Cool work though
13:13	rhickey	duck1123: no thanks, actually that was never a problem on gcode, but with full edit rights people could change status, assign, close etc
13:13	gnuvince	Chousuke: will you put it on github (snif)?
13:13	rhickey	those things are for the people doing the work
13:14	Chousuke	gnuvince: I guess I could. not yet though. I still need to make it not break when you do (let [[x y] [1]] ...) :)
13:14	gnuvince	Chousuke: cool
13:14	Chousuke	rest params will be a problem too. :P
13:14	gnuvince	Keep me appraised; I used manual vector dereferencing in my starcraft lib because it performs better, but this would be better
13:16	Chousuke	I think the performance difference comes mostly from the fact that the three-parameter version of 'nth is not inlined :/
13:17	duck1123	does anyone know why imenu is picking up the newline after my function names as part of the name?
13:17	duck1123	anyone here using imenu for clojure code?
13:18	technomancy	duck1123: yeah... suspect a bug in clojure-def-regexp
13:20	Chouser	rhickey: What does assembla's bug tracker do better than gcode?
13:20	technomancy	duck1123: I may have only tested it for functions that have args on the same line as the def, in which case it works fine.
13:21	technomancy	patches welcome. =)
13:22	duck1123	regex is arcane enough, why did emacs have to make it that much harder
13:22	gnuvince	duck1123: why did Perl have to make it that much easier?
13:22	technomancy	might have something to do with the fact that its implementation pretty much older than time itself. =)
13:23	gnuvince	duck1123: Emacs' regex implementation pre-dates what is considered mainstream nowadays
13:24	herdrick	hello all, i have a question about clojure swank
13:24	herdrick	i'm getting OutOfMemoryError in the REPL so I need to change my Java heap space
13:24	herdrick	I'm not seeing where the invocation to 'java' is
13:24	technomancy	,dv swank-clojure-extra-vm-args
13:25	technomancy	oops... there's no fsbot here.
13:25	herdrick	technomancy: thanks!
13:25	herdrick	i can probably find it with that alone on Google, yes?
13:25	technomancy	herdrick: better to use C-h v from within Emacs
13:25	technomancy	but yeah
13:25	herdrick	this perhaps will work: http://paste.lisp.org/display/71211
13:26	herdrick	oh, ok
13:26	technomancy	herdrick: clojure-slime-config from clojure-mode will do most of that setup for you
13:27	herdrick	i do use closure-slime-config in my .emacs file
13:27	herdrick	but you're saying i should invoke it again now?
13:27	technomancy	no, I mean half the stuff in your paste is already done for you by that function
13:27	herdrick	oh, all right thanks
13:28	rhickey	Chouser: hopefully not stink! It's much richer and works with the milestone system
13:28	technomancy	herdrick: also, if you have the clojure-auto file, you've probably got a pretty old version of clojure-mode; that file is no longer necessary in recent versions
13:28	herdrick	looks like the C-h v , swank-clojure-extra-vm-args is going to do the trick for me
13:28	herdrick	technomancy: yeah, I noticed that
13:29	herdrick	i got rid of mine
13:29	herdrick	have a brand new install now
13:29	technomancy	herdrick: also, do you know about M-x clojure-install?
13:30	technomancy	it looks like you've already done the work of the installation, but next time that should be able to automate it for you
13:30	herdrick	technomancy: yep, that's how I installed it this time
13:30	technomancy	oh, ok
13:30	herdrick	sorry, that paste is not from me
13:30	technomancy	oh, that explains it. =)
13:30	herdrick	it was the first result for Googling swank-clojure-extra-vm-args
13:30	herdrick	yeah, :)
13:32	dysinger	I don't use the clojure-install method
13:32	dysinger	it didn't work for me and also I already had those projects in different dirs.
13:32	dysinger	so I just came up with my own .emacs black
13:32	dysinger	block
13:33	dysinger	by looking at what clojure-install function does
13:33	rhickey	Chouser: I never felt like gcode's tickets was appropriate for features, ok for bugfixes. I think assembla has more tools for planning, stories, milestones etc
13:34	Chouser	ah, ok.
13:34	rhickey	both seem to have an appalling lack of 'sort by last activity'
13:35	dysinger	mine looks like this herdrick http://paste.lisp.org/display/81938
13:36	Chousuke	gnuvince: http://github.com/Chousuke/clojure/tree/simple-destructure ... I make no guarantee that it works at all. It seems to, though.
13:36	gnuvince	oh, it's not a separate lib
13:37	gnuvince	hmmm
13:37	gnuvince	weird: I can't see beyond line 1908 of core.clj
13:37	herdrick	dysinger: ok, thanks. the clojure-install is working well for me so far, though
13:37	dysinger	ok good
13:38	herdrick	dysinger: slime-fancy sounds interesting tho. with a name like that...
13:38	Chousuke	oh crap
13:38	Chousuke	repl error :P
13:38	Chousuke	apparently using defn- wasn't allowed ;(
13:39	technomancy	herdrick: slime-fancy is just a module that loads "a whole bunch of stuff outside core slime"
13:39	duck1123	technomancy: you have a pull request
13:40	technomancy	cool
13:40	herdrick	technomancy: thanks
13:41	Chousuke	should at least compile-test my edits I suppose :P
13:47	Chousuke	the more difficult task is to extend that to support &, :as and map destructuring :P
13:48	rhickey	... your import for clojure-contrib has completed. http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/tree/master
13:53	technomancy	already to the #1 forked and #1 watched Java project; not bad: http://github.com/languages/Java
13:55	cemerick	well, this week, anyway. We'll see how things stack up over time.
13:55	cemerick	(though I'm hoping, of course)
13:58	Chousuke	Clojure is still 83% java? that's scary.
13:59	replaca	Chousuke: that's measured by LoC
13:59	Chousuke	yeah
13:59	replaca	I assume
13:59	Chousuke	scary.
13:59	duck1123	the kevinoneill version is among the most watched overall
13:59	replaca	If we assume clojure code is twice as dense, that would change the equation substantially
14:00	cemerick	Java is almost 100% java :-P
14:00	cemerick	(my snarky way of saying, hey, it works!)
14:01	Chousuke	the target, of course, is to have Clojure be 100% Clojure :)
14:02	dnolen	heh I thought 90% was rhickey's goal.
14:02	Chousuke	Not ambitious enough!
14:02	cemerick	yeah, definitely a good goal, but I wouldn't say the current state is scary
14:03	dnolen	cemerick: it's nice to see that Clojure the language is so small.
14:03	duck1123	wouldn't you have to have at least something written in another language to bootstrap it if you didn't have another version of clojure to compile with?
14:03	dnolen	looks like Monday is the big day for rhickey's commits
14:03	dnolen	http://github.com/richhickey/clojure/graphs/punch_card
14:04	eevar_	yay, contrib is out on github as well now
14:04	cemerick	heh, a lot of people have complained about how large clojure's core is (w.r.t. # of special forms)
14:04	replaca	I'm glad I fixed the typo in my last commit comment last night before pushing :-).
14:08	eevar_	btw. isn't it common for the /test to lie alongside /src?
14:08	stuartsierra	In Java-land, it is common.
14:09	Chousuke	cemerick: most of the special forms are java interop anyway :P
14:10	cemerick	oh, I know, but some of the rabble don't like that. shrug
14:10	rhickey	cemerick: most of the complaints are about the reader stuff, there aren't many special forms
14:11	replaca	dnolen: That shows that rhickey isn't a real hacker. Real hackers have the majority of their checkins between midnight and 6AM :-)
14:11	cemerick	rhickey: I got an earful from some people @ ILC about try/catch/finally in particular.
14:12	rhickey	cemerick: ok
14:12	cemerick	They (unsurprisingly) thought interop is irrelevant, and something like restarts and such should have been bolted in.
14:13	mrsolo	clojure core is large?
14:17	slashus2	cemerick: What did they say about try catch finally? Was it because it is a special form?
14:18	cemerick	slashus2: yes -- a wart inherited from Java, in their opinion.
14:18	cemerick	They were certainly coming from a very particular perspective, of course.
14:24	duck1123	it's not like you have to use them
14:24	mrsolo	well for me java interop is the primary reason that i have picked clojure over others
14:24	duck1123	thank god Clojure doesn't have checked exceptions
14:24	Chouser	mrsolo: you're by no means alone.
14:25	Chouser	but people at a lisp conference are unlikely to care much about java, interop or otherwise.
14:28	hiredman	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a86c91091ae16970 <-- zing!
14:29	rhickey	hiredman: did that seem too harsh?
14:30	hiredman	not too harsh
14:30	mrsolo	not at all.. he was trolling imho
14:31	rzoom_	nj to rhickey on that
14:32	liebke	rhickey: it was a good explanation of the objectives of the ants simulation too
14:32	cemerick	rhickey: I'm really surprised your responded at all, actually
14:34	duck1123	is c.l.l worth reading for someone into clojure, but not that concerned with CL or others?
14:35	technomancy	only if you like fireworks
14:35	rhickey	cemerick: I just couldn't let it go, leaving people thinking STM code can easily be replaced with locks. There's a reason the ants demo hasn't been reproduced thus far
14:35	cemerick	duck1123: it's a very toxic forum, IMO
14:35	rhickey	duck1123: no, it really is a Common Lisp crowd
14:35	hiredman	duck1123: c.l.l is icky
14:36	cemerick	#scheme is a decent place to be in, as most of the people there are level-headed, but there's a lot of demagoguery there as well compared to here
14:36	cemerick	(maybe there's anti-demagoguery demagoguery here?)
14:36	baetis-fly	technomancy: wasn't that the same guy?
14:36	technomancy	baetis-fly: I get all the different Pascals confused.
14:37	baetis-fly	technomancy: ah, perhaps I am as well.
14:37	cemerick	rhickey: I totally understand. Of course, there's always people wrong on the internet, and only one of you (or ~100 of us, perhaps) :-)
14:37	hiredman	I could see rhickey not responding if it just an email about clojure, but ants is a great demo, and his "port" just did not cut it
14:37	technomancy	hiredman: especially since it would be easy for someone to glance at the CL version without realizing its shortcomings.
14:40	technomancy	anyway if I were named after a procedural language I would probably be pretty grumpy too.
14:41	baetis-fly	for the record, different Pascal.
14:42	rsynnott	oh, #lisp isn't that bad these days, anyway
14:42	rsynnott	(about half the people on c.l.l are actually insane, though)
14:43	mrsolo	well there is a way to do ant demo without lock at all right?
14:44	cemerick	well, as rhickey pointed out, the objective is to do more than just draw stuff on the screen
14:44	mrsolo	right
14:44	duck1123	it would be interesting to see what the CL version would look like now that Rich has clearly stated what any port of the ants demo would need to be able to acomplish to be considered valid.
14:45	duncanm	anyone good with git here?
14:45	cemerick	you'd end up writing a bad, custom STM impl, I'd think
14:45	technomancy	duncanm: we're all learning, these days. =)
14:45	technomancy	what's the question?
14:45	mrsolo	i am just saying that cl version doesnt' do it that way, still use lock
14:45	duncanm	technomancy: i'm 10+ commits past origin/master on my own master branch
14:46	duncanm	technomancy: i'd like to branch my own changes to its own branch, and keep master tracking origin/master
14:46	Chousuke	you want to move that to its own branch?
14:46	duncanm	right
14:46	Chousuke	easy.
14:46	technomancy	oh, that _is_ bad. I hope you saved. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/20/)
14:46	technomancy	(just kidding)
14:46	duncanm	i've been switching back and forth between git and hg, so now i'm all confused
14:46	duncanm	i think i know how to do that in hg, maybe
14:46	rsynnott	cemerick: there are a few cl implementations of software transactional memory, though not sure how good they are
14:47	duncanm	Chousuke: what's the trick?
14:47	Chousuke	git co -b changes; git co master; git reset origin/master; should do it.
14:47	Chousuke	assuming no uncommitted changes.
14:48	Chousuke	and the reset is "safe" in that it won't throw away work. use --hard to actually throw away the commits from master after you've verified they're in the changes branch
14:48	Chousuke	(with reset that is)
14:48	Chousuke	also, co = checkout
14:48	duck1123	use "gitk --all" if you like working with a gui
14:50	duncanm	perfect
15:38	Chouser	Nice! Looks like assembla watches github commits to update ticket status: http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure-contrib/github_tool
15:51	rhickey	Chouser: yup
15:52	rhickey	there are some magic word we can use to associate commits with tickets
15:54	rhickey	Chouser: also, looks like the support tool is just the ticket for non-member participation
16:42	vika23	hello , i can't seem to get function "get-connection" in clojure.contrib.sql to work ,repl refuses to recognize it ,any help appreciated
16:43	rhickey	contrib github repo seem ok?
16:44	Chousuke	no problems so far.
16:44	stuartsierra	So can all contrib members push to the github repo?
16:45	rhickey	stuartsierra: should be yes, only 8 have given me their github ids
16:45	rhickey	4 missing
16:47	replaca	but we need pics of the contributors, too :-)
16:47	Chouser	oh, is there a list somewhere?
16:47	Chouser	I haven't been able to find one on the github project.
16:47	rhickey	maybe only on the admin page
16:47	Chouser	hm. seems odd.
16:47	rhickey	yes
16:48	replaca	rhickey, Chouser yeah, I was looking for that on the rails project the other day and couldn't find the list there either
16:52	achim	vika23: get-connection is an internal function, with-connection is the public variant. if you really need get-connection, you'll have to use/require clojure.contrib.sql.internal
16:53	mstevens	hello!
16:54	achim	vika23: note that you can use connection and find-connection inside the with-connection body to get hold of the connection handle
16:54	replaca	mstevens: good afternoon
16:55	replaca	mstevens: you'll find it's a friendly place
16:55	mstevens	replaca: nearly everything on freenode seems to be.
16:55	stuartsierra	Where everybody knows your name...
16:55	replaca	stuartsierra: I grew up aroud the block from that bar :-)
16:56	replaca	*around
16:56	vika23	achim: great! thanks
16:56	Chouser	mstevens: glad to hear you've had such positive experiences.
16:57	Chousuke	Everyone wishes for that :)
16:57	Chouser	I was hoping the book was sufficient.
16:58	stuartsierra	Documentation is like sex. Even when it's bad, it's still better than nothing. And everybody wants more of it.
16:58	mstevens	Chosuke: well it seems to be happening! So I can't complain too much.
16:58	Chousuke	http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/ I'll keep spamming this link forever to newbies
16:59	Chousuke	might be a bit redundant if you have the book, but nice anywya
16:59	Chousuke	anyway*
16:59	dnolen	mstevens: hanging out here is the best way to educate yourself on Clojure. also, it's better place to get a sense of what is going with the project. BDFL has good presence here, not such much on the Mailing List.
17:00	cemerick	is BDFL really rhickey's title? Seems like we should have something original :-)
17:00	Chouser	also, no better way to get the basics down well than to anwser the same questions several times.
17:01	rys	EHDFL :p
17:01	rys	epic-haired > benevolent
17:02	mstevens	STM looked much cooler than I expected
17:05	ccmtaylor	\openany % keine Leerseiten
17:05	mstevens	Chousuke: I saw the snake game in the book :)
17:05	ccmtaylor	whoops, wrong buffer ;)
17:06	ccmtaylor	\openany % keine Leerseiten
17:06	Chousuke	:p
17:06	ccmtaylor	d'oh. thats what you get from using a new .emacs.d
17:06	ccmtaylor	M-V didn't used to be paste
17:14	ccmtaylor	openany % keine Leerseiten
17:15	Chousuke	Today I reaffirmed my opinion that FP is the Right Way to do things :) I was tweaking destructure, which is quite a complex beast; but then I realised I didn't have to care about the complexity. I simply added a special case to the cond statement of the main destructure worker function and wrote my special-case logic in the most straightforward way possible, recursively calling
17:15	Chousuke	the worker function to handle the complex stuff. It actually compiled and ran correctly for simple inputs on the first try :P
17:16	Chousuke	after a few more tweaks I got it working for even rather complicated inputs.
17:17	Chousuke	I'm quite certain that if destructure were in any way stateful I wouldn't have been able to pull this off :P
17:17	Chouser	Chousuke: yes, it's amazing how much you can do while understanding only a small part of the code.
17:18	Chouser	like algebra
17:21	Chousuke	state is like a global variable that everyone has unrestricted access to.
17:21	dnolen	mstevens: or the imperative world period. recently I was horrified by the fact, in a Python interactive session, that almost all Python list operations are mutate the original list and return nothing.
17:22	Chousuke	you just need to know how your code affects it, or things will break
17:22	mstevens	Well I've just been noticing how many java bugs I get from invalid state, and how much immutable objects can simplify things.
17:23	mstevens	I'm occasionally tempted to make everything in java "final" by default, but it's not java-ish.
17:30	Chousuke	It's also much more fun.
17:31	Chousuke	"No way this will work" "oh. it does."
17:32	mstevens	Chousuke: that was one thing I noticed with the book, everything's weirdly general
17:33	Chousuke	Many of the small things together in clojure are what make it so neat.
17:36	Chousuke	there's destructuring, syntax-quote+let feature, maps/keywords/sets/vectors as functions, using vectors for syntax. then there's the similarity between STM functions like send, alter, swap! etc.
17:36	Xcalibor	greetings
17:37	mstevens	hello
17:37	Chousuke	all kinds of small things that you might not notice that together contribute a lot to the language
17:38	Xcalibor	may I ask for some wisdom on clojure.fu? I have a huge hash-map with names, and a long list of names to match (using Damerau-Levenshtein distance)... I'd like to be able to lauch several concurrent searches at the same time... which strategy would be better to acomplish this?
17:39	Chousuke	hmm
17:39	mstevens	my first answer would be java.util.concurrent, but that's not very clojure-ish I suspect
17:40	mstevens	<- java person who snuck in
17:40	Chouser	Xcalibor: you need to do a distance func on every combination of hash-map-key to name-list-item?
17:41	ataggart	out of curiosity, what practical application does this have?
17:42	Xcalibor	Chouser: not really... I have a list of names to match on the huge list, and I have a metric where I can cut the calculation once I have a 100% match or I may need to collect those that match over the, say, 90%
17:42	mstevens	Didn't work very well though
17:42	Chousuke	Xcalibor: first I guess you should partition the huge list.
17:43	tashafa	Hello!
17:43	Xcalibor	ataggart: I am trying to integrate a unix passwd file over an existent LDAP, so I have to discover which users may already exist on the LDAP, or otherwise tell them to create an LDAP account, so I can put 'em all using PAM_LDAP
17:43	tashafa	(doc doto)
17:43	tashafa	,(doc doto)
17:43	Chousuke	clojurebot is offline :(
17:43	tashafa	:'(
17:44	hiredman	:(
17:45	Xcalibor	I have already done this with Perl, sequentially, but right now the target list is greater than twice, and I am using the problemto learn clojure on the go, thus I thought launching several 'quests' concurrently would be a good job for clojure... :-P
17:46	Chouser	Xcalibor: I still don't quite understand what you're trying to do, but I suspect pmap might help.
17:46	michel	Hullo! was wondering if anyone could help doing a (hopefully simple) debugging
17:47	Chouser	if you've got a big chunk of work to do for each item in a seq (name in a list?), and you want a single result for each of them (percentage of match?), then I think pmap might do quite nicely.
17:47	Chouser	michel: probably -- ask away.
17:48	michel	I just wrote a macro I intend to contribute to clojure.contrib.trace, and I've tested it and it seems to work. When I add its definition to trace.clj and rebuild the JAR file, though, the definition is not visible from REPL
17:48	Xcalibor	Chouser: I'll have a look at pmap, thanks... as for what I want to do it's easy: the unix machine has local accounts with local uids, but those users do already exist on the ldap with a different uid... I have to match their names and locate their ldap uids, so I can get rid of the local accounts
17:48	ataggart	"I just wrote a macro" ... ominous
17:48	kotarak	michel: did you restart the repl?
17:48	michel	ataggart: yes and no. it makes testing easier: (dotrace (+ -) (+ 10 20 30))
17:49	Jetien	hi kotarak - could you assist me in getting vimclojure to work? although i set the "maplocalleader" variable in vim it doesn't seem to work.
17:49	kotarak	michel: jars cannot be reloaded.
17:49	michel	kotarak: yes. and I checked the JAR, and it does contain class files for the new macro
17:49	michel	using clojure-contrib/launchers/bash/clj-env-dir to start the REPL
17:49	kotarak	Jetien: what's the filetype of the buffer? (The mappings are only set for clojure buffers)
17:50	Jetien	kotarak: how can i find out the filetype of the current buffer?
17:50	kotarak	:set filetype? (<- with ?)
17:50	Chousuke	Xcalibor: something like (pmap (partial reduce [] (fn [acc item] (if (match item) (conj item acc) acc))) (partition (/ (count huge-list) 4))))
17:50	michel	I'll try modifying an existing macro in that file, and see if I could get the changes to take effect.
17:51	Xcalibor	Chouser: well, I can get one result if the match is "unique" (that's over 90% of similarity) but when it's lower, I need a short list of possible candicate accounts to check manually (eg. user johnny, John S. Somebody on the unix machine is uid=udata089, ou=people,o=myorg on the ldap, with cn=John Samuel Somebody)
17:51	Chousuke	(count huge-list) has to be divisible by four though
17:51	Chousuke	that won't short circuit though :/
17:51	Chousuke	and I overuse though :p
17:52	Jetien	kotarak: i did a set filetype="clojure" - is that right?
17:52	Jetien	i got parens matching and indention, so my guess is that it worked
17:52	kotarak	Jetien: yes. do the bindings show up in ":nmap" output?
17:53	Jetien	kotarak: nothing which looks like vimclojure
17:53	kotarak	Jetien: did you put "let clj_want_gorilla = 1" in your .vimrc?
17:53	Xcalibor	Chousuke: I already have the searching part more or less done (using a lazy list comprehension, or at least I think it's lazy, maybe it's not), i was just thinking about launching several of those counts at the same time to use the multicores on the machine doing the hard job...
17:53	Jetien	kotarak: i did
17:54	kotarak	hmm
17:54	Jetien	kotarak: theere were also no erros in the installation
17:54	achim	does anybody know what's happening re. chunked seqs? i missed that discussion ... i'll need some fast subseq searching soon, and it sounds like chunked seqs could be used to implement sth boyer-moore-like ...
17:55	Chousuke	Xcalibor: that's what I intended to show there.
17:55	kotarak	Jetien: do a ":source ~/.vim/ftplugin/clojure.vim". Are the mappings now there?
17:55	Xcalibor	Chousuke: i was thinking something in the line of (while (not (nil? user-list)) (spawn nsearch (locate user huge-list))) <- this is pseudocode, at best
17:55	Chousuke	Xcalibor: you need to partition your huge list, then launch a search on each partition, and then concatenate the results.
17:56	Jetien	kotarak: no
17:56	Chousuke	Xcalibor: how fast an operation is nsearch though?
17:56	michel	OK, after modifying the output of an existing procedure in clojure/contrib/trace.clj, and rebuilding the JAR (ant clean && ant -Dclojure.jar=/path/to/clojure.jar), it turns out that for some reason the changes are still not picked up
17:58	Chouser	achim: seqs over vectors are chunked already (head)
17:58	Chouser	(class (seq (vec (range 100)))) ==> clojure.lang.LazilyPersistentVector$ChunkedSeq
17:58	Xcalibor	Chousuke: "pretty fast"... the algorithm is quite optimized... at the moment it takes about nothing to get a 93.67% match on a 100 hash-map... the real one will be almost 3 orders of magnitude bigger, though
17:59	Chouser	achim: eventually most of the seq-consuming fns (map, filter, etc.) will check their arg and if it's a chunked seq operate a chunk at a time for an automatic speed boost.
18:00	Xcalibor	if access is log32N on a hash-map, I don't think it's really heavy for such a big hash-map though, given enough memory is available
18:00	Chouser	achim: so as long as you're composing those chunk-aware fns, you'll get extra speed with no work.
18:01	achim	Chouser: nice, thanks for the info! so there will be a (supported, public) way to get hold of the chunks?
18:01	Chouser	achim: it's only if you're doing your own first/next loops, or producing data that's naturally chunkable, that you might want to write chunk-aware code.
18:01	Xcalibor	this would have to happen some hundred of times for all the users...
18:01	Jetien	kotarak: is there a quick fix in clojure.vim to workaround this problem maybe?
18:01	Chouser	achim: yep! Gotta go now, though.
18:02	Chousuke	Xcalibor: hm.
18:02	achim	that sounds exciting
18:02	Chousuke	Xcalibor: I really can't form an image of what you're trying to do
18:02	Chousuke	Xcalibor: but most likely spawning a thread for each user is not worth it.
18:02	Chousuke	Xcalibor: so partition your users
18:03	technomancy	this is pretty cool: http://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/graphs/impact
18:03	Chousuke	Xcalibor: and spawn a thread for each partition
18:03	Xcalibor	Chousuke: you think so?
18:03	technomancy	I can't wait till the history for clojure itself actually records authorship.
18:03	Chousuke	Xcalibor: well, unless the search per user is going to take >500ms, then no.
18:03	kotarak	Jetien: I'm sorry. I just came back from a >700km tour to Luxembourg. I can't concentrate now. Recheck that the plugin part is really installed correctly. That there are no spelling errors in the configuration. Such things. I'll hopefully be around tomorrow or so. If nothing helps send me an email. (mb ! kotka ? de) You can check the guards for the mapping code in the ftplugin/clojure.vim file.
18:04	Xcalibor	I can do that, of course, when I construct the hash-map, I can create several of them, and then lauch a process to search each chunk in each target hash-map... that may work, now I have to learn to do launch them :-)
18:04	Chousuke	Xcalibor: you can use future or pmap
18:04	Chousuke	Xcalibor: see the documentation :)
18:04	technomancy	whoa; microsoft gave a grant to the Scala team to bring the .NET port to parity with the JVM one.
18:05	Xcalibor	yep! I will.. future and pmap, great... thanks a lot!
18:05	Jetien	kotarak: alright, no problem. i try to find out myself and come back some other time. danke schonmal!
18:05	technomancy	(according to dean wampler anyway: http://twitter.com/deanwampler/status/2156940937)
18:08	ataggart	Chousuke: any reason why agents wouldn't be appropriate to Xcalibor's problem?
18:09	replaca	technomancy: yeah, I saw that graph too. Pretty sweet.
18:10	Chousuke	ataggart: I think futures are simpler
18:11	ataggart	perhaps my mental model is off, but I think of them as being mostly equivalent
18:11	Chousuke	ataggart: if you just create an agent and then send a single job to it, that's equivalent to a future
18:12	Chousuke	ataggart: but agents are meant to receive multiple sends over time, which you don't want in this case :/
18:12	Chousuke	futures are simpler to use as well. they're kind of like "read-only" agents.
18:13	Chousuke	(after the first job has run, of course)
18:14	dnolen	speaking of which, what are the opinions about the new promise/deliver? They seem cool, but I'd like hear how people intend to use them.
18:15	dnolen	one thought is that they are useful for interactive functions at the REPL.
18:15	dnolen	is that a silly idea?
18:16	Xcalibor	one silly question: there's a clojure.parallel and I have a parallel.clj on the source tree, but I cannot use it from the repl... shouldn't it be included into the jar file?
18:17	Chousuke	Xcalibor: did you require it?
18:17	Xcalibor	i use it...
18:17	Xcalibor	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: jsr166y.forkjoin.ParallelArray (parallel.clj:0)
18:18	hiredman	yeah, you need the jsr11y jar
18:18	Xcalibor	weird...
18:18	hiredman	er
18:18	Xcalibor	is that an ant task? or do I have to download more code?
18:18	ataggart	http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/concurrency-interest/index.html
18:19	hiredman	clojure.parallel has not been looked after, as far as I know
18:19	hiredman	last I heard the classes in the jsr166 jar had been renamed and parallel had not been updated
18:20	Xcalibor	oh, i see... well, i was wondering...
18:20	Xcalibor	as for promises, are they similar to Scheme's?
18:20	hiredman	yeah, I would ignore it (I have been ignoring it)
18:20	hiredman	nope
18:20	ataggart	dnolen: is there a link to that stuff?
18:20	hiredman	scheme's promises are clojure's delays
18:21	dnolen	attagart: no but it was discussed on irc.
18:21	ataggart	rgr
18:21	Xcalibor	oh, the I have no idea of what those promise/deliver are :-P any link to info?
18:21	hiredman	a clojure promise is a sort of write only atom, where all reads block until the atom as been written
18:22	hiredman	Xcalibor: (doc promise) in the repl
18:22	dnolen	and throws on any successive writes beyond the first
18:22	dnolen	it does seems cool for blocking a computation until user input at the REPL, but it doesn't seem like there's much of an opinion about that :)
18:22	Xcalibor	hiredman: do I have to download any recent stuff from the svn? the 1.0.0 jar doesn't have promise (it throws a Java exception)
18:23	hiredman	Xcalibor: git
18:23	hiredman	~github
18:23	hiredman	damn it!
18:23	ataggart	can't live without clojurebot
18:23	Xcalibor	ah... bleeding edge stuff, uh?
18:23	hiredman	Xcalibor: promise/deliver are brand new
18:23	dnolen	hmm nothing comin up on Chouser's irc log.
18:24	hiredman	blocking stuff is always neat to setup pull based computations
18:24	Xcalibor	so an atom that only allows one write and blocks any reading until it's fully written to?
18:25	hiredman	something like that
18:25	Xcalibor	are they first-class citizens? I mean, can you send them over the net, for example?
18:26	hiredman	uh
18:26	hiredman	you definition of "first-class" does not compute
18:26	Xcalibor	it seems something useful to build up state objects that can be used to spread estate to a farm of proceses
18:27	Xcalibor	hiredman: nod, it's unfortunate... not like first-class citizens as applied to functions, and so one (that can be returned, passed along, etc)
18:27	hiredman	"send them over the net" is a serialization operation and has nothing to do with "first-class" this or that
18:28	Chousuke	I don't think they're meant for distributed computing
18:28	hiredman	none of clojure's concurrency primitives are meant for distribution across jvms
18:29	Xcalibor	but for distributed computing, serialization can be seen as just another operation, like returning, etc... oh, i see... well, i can't figure out right now what would they be useful for, sorry
18:29	mrsolo	the exception raised by agent, is it binded to a particular thread?
18:29	hiredman	mrsolo: huh?
18:29	mrsolo	if an agent raised an exception due to validator error
18:29	dnolen_	Xcalibor: for distributed computing some work has been done integrating Clojure with Terracotta.
18:30	hiredman	mrsolo: If any exceptions are thrown by an action function, no nested dispatches will occur, and the exception will be cached in the Agent itself. When an Agent has errors cached, any subsequent interactions will immediately throw an exception, until the agent's errors are cleared. Agent errors can be examined with agent-errors and cleared with clear-agent-errors.
18:30	hiredman	http://clojure.org/agents
18:30	mrsolo	ok
18:30	Xcalibor	dnolen_: terracotta? is that some Java framework? i'm not really much into Java per se... i'll have to check it out
18:30	mrsolo	eveybody gets it basically
18:30	Chousuke	I really can't tell what kind of work promise/deliver would be good for :/
18:31	hiredman	pull based stuff
18:31	dnolen_	Xcalibor: yes
18:31	Chousuke	perhaps a producer/consumer kind of system with multiple concurrent producers and consumers.
18:32	hiredman	http://leansoftwareengineering.com/2009/01/08/mechanics-of-pull-development-workflow/
18:32	Chousuke	then you could have a manager distributing promises all around
18:32	Xcalibor	dnolen_: ok, i'll have a look, it seems something promising: distributed over several multicore boxes could give a huge power... :-)
18:32	Chousuke	and someone delivers them
18:32	dnolen_	Xcalibor: search the google group for Terracotta for reference
18:33	hiredman	well, that is not a good exmple
18:33	Xcalibor	dnolen_: great, thanks! now it's already tomorrow in here, time to go to bed... thanks for all your help, and good night!
18:35	Chousuke	you could even send the promises off to agents that would queue and fulfil them whenever they can, and the consumer could just block until the promise it's waiting for is fulfilled.
18:36	dnolen_	Chousuke: hmm interesting.
18:37	dnolen_	I suppose you can design a series tasks that are complete asynchronously, then the process unblocks filling yet another task, et. al.
18:37	hiredman	Chousuke: yeah for fanning out
18:39	Chousuke	you would have a single hub distributing the work and the consumers could be "dumb", knowing nothing about the agents or whateverit is that's doing the actual work.
18:40	dnolen_	Chousuke: now that I think about it sounds like a good way to maximize concurrency no need for explicit awaits.
18:40	mrsolo	nice, is it available yet?
18:40	Chousuke	mrsolo: recent commit in git
18:40	Chousuke	(svn too but you should forget that!)
18:42	mrsolo	so it is git from now?
18:42	Chousuke	is it actually official yet?
18:42	Chousuke	but anyway, yeah.
18:43	mrsolo	btw is pom.xml official? or it is just there
18:43	mrsolo	i keep doing my own version for mvn
18:43	mrsolo	for clojure-contrib that is
18:44	Chousuke	http://www.assembla.com/spaces/dashboard/index/clojure http://www.assembla.com/spaces/dashboard/index/clojure-contrib
18:45	ataggart	it'd be nice if contrib had an official release
18:46	opqdonut	mhmm
18:47	opqdonut	synced with the clojure releases
18:47	ataggart	randomly pulling down whatever happens to be in trunk at that moment makes me nervous
18:48	ataggart	and I'm a bit unclear about what rationale is used to decide whether something goes in clojure, clojure-contrib, or some separate project
18:56	hiredman	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming <-- hash map thing it mentions could actually be implemented using promise/deliver
19:06	Chousuke	hiredman: but after delivering a single promise, you'd have to reconstruct the graph again, wouldn't you?
19:06	Chousuke	to get new deliverable promises.
19:07	hiredman	Chousuke: if you used promise
19:07	Chousuke	the dataflow in contrib is implemented using agents I think
19:09	hiredman	some dataflows are imutable
19:09	hiredman	actually
19:10	hiredman	strictly speaking, they have to be
19:10	Chousuke	um, but they aren't immutable in the sense that once you give one input, you can no longer give any more? :/
19:11	hiredman	it's not exactly a fan out style thing
19:12	hiredman	it's sort of like you have a jumbled up bag of functions and you just run them arbitrarily and they either complete or block
19:17	durka42	or you run them all at the same time :)
19:17	durka42	there's dataflow in contrib? i'll have to play with this
19:23	hiredman	durka42: yeah, you wrap all your function calls in future, and all paramteres in promises
19:24	hiredman	or all your functions internally call future and return a promise
20:04	wavis	anyone considered the possibility of compiling clojure to parrotvm?
20:39	rhickey	It's official: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/ca4fb58428052554
20:40	arohner	rhickey: great!
20:44	Chouser	a one-time scrape of gcode issues and push to assembla tickets might be a nice little enlive project for someone.
20:46	quidnunc	What does Assembla do that is special?
20:50	rhickey	quidnunc: it has a richer tickets/milestone system than gcode, a wysiwyg wiki, logged chat, and just generally better collab and project management tools
20:52	rhickey	same kind of thing as unfuddle etc
20:52	quidnunc	rhickey: Were any other alternatives in contention? Assembla is non-gratis right?
20:52	michel	great news. just curious -- how does it compare to Sun's Kenai?
20:52	rhickey	assembla is free for open source projects where everything is public
20:52	rhickey	so, free for Clojure
20:55	rhickey	michel: I didn't spend too much time with Kenai, one of my criteria was that it would be something I could also use for commercial/private work - I don't want to learn 2 toolsets
20:56	rhickey	I also don't really get the cross-project focus of Kenai, and it has fewer tools
20:57	michel	ah, that makes sense. cool -- I just wrote something I wanted to eventually have in contrib, and being able to fork it at github makes it much easier
20:57	rhickey	that's the goal
21:10	durka42	is rhickey managing contrib now then?
21:10	rhickey	durka42: what does that mean?
21:11	durka42	i mean, if it's in your name on github
21:11	durka42	are you the gatekeeper?
21:11	rhickey	I was the admin before and am still
21:11	durka42	oh, ok
21:11	durka42	I thought it was Chouser for a while
21:13	Chouser	oh dear, no. I'm not in charge of anything.
21:13	Chouser	by lines of code, I've contributed about 5% of what's currently in contrib.
21:14	durka42	:)
21:14	Chouser	I'm flattered you thought so, though. :-)
21:28	jackdempsey	hey guys.....fwiw, i'm brand new to clojure, but pretty familiar with git and github, so, happy to help out in that area if i can
21:29	rhickey	jackdempsey: hi, thanks
21:30	jackdempsey	np, think its a great move, but i remember starting with git....can be a bit intimidating at first
21:30	jackdempsey	i've got a bunch of useful git links, etc scattered about....has anyone sent something like that to the group?
21:32	rhickey	one practical problem I foresee is that people are used to saying 'I'm having a problem with svn rev 42', 'oh, that's fixed in rev 45', where the order of things is clear, where is isn't with those hashes
21:34	jackdempsey	yeah, i can see one worrying about that....in practice, i don't think i've ever really been bogged down by that
21:34	Chouser	hiredman mentioned the idea of using a date/time in place of svn rev (when asking clojurebot for the latest, for example)
21:34	jackdempsey	i think there are several ways to deal with something like that
21:35	jackdempsey	yep there's that, tehre's also quickly doing a git show sha1hash and if you dno't have that, you'll know its upstream and can fetch, rebase, etc
21:35	jackdempsey	if you do have it, then something else is the culprit
22:06	jackdempsey	rhickey: giving any talks on clojure near DC anytime soon?
22:18	wy_	hello
22:19	Chouser	wy_: hi
22:20	wy_	Chouser: Hi
22:20	wy_	I heard clojure has some of the lazy features?
22:21	Chouser	yep, Clojure's seqs can be lazy
22:23	wy_	only seqs?
22:23	hsuh	hi. i'm failing to define a function to swap! this atom (def x (atom [0 0 0 0 0 0]))
22:24	hsuh	i was trying something with this format: (defn update-vals [a b c d e f] [(+ 1 a) (+ 1 b) (+ 1 c) (+ 1 d) (+ 1 e) (+ 1 f)])
22:24	hsuh	but then (swap! x update-vals 1 2 3 4 5 6) gives me wrong number of arguments...
22:24	hiredman	correct
22:24	Chouser	wy_: that's the only transparently lazy thing I can think of. There are also futures, delays, promises, etc. but those require explicit derefs to get the value.
22:25	hiredman	because update-vals takes 6 args, and swap! is passing 1
22:25	hiredman	actually swap! is passing 2
22:25	hsuh	but swap if f x y & args ...
22:25	hsuh	hm
22:26	hsuh	s/if/is
22:26	hiredman	its like (apply update-vals @x '([0 0 0 0 0 0]))
22:26	Chouser	hsuh: your update-vals takes 6 args
22:27	hiredman	which, in turn, is like (update-vals @x [0 0 0 0 0 0])
22:27	hsuh	do we have a pastie?
22:27	Chouser	hsuh: your swap! call there passes the atom value plus the 6 args, for a total of 7.
22:27	hiredman	2 args
22:27	hiredman	oh
22:27	hiredman	whoops
22:27	hiredman	~url
22:27	hiredman	bah!
22:28	hiredman	lisppaste8: url
22:28	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
22:28	lisppaste8	hsuh pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81963
22:29	hsuh	i thought that would work, passing a single vector...
22:29	hiredman	hsuh: read the docstring for swap!
22:29	Chouser	hsuh: (swap! x foo [1 2 3]) will call (foo x-val [1 2 3]) -- 2 args
22:29	hsuh	ok... i dont get why "+" works
22:30	hiredman	hsuh: swap! applies the function to the current value of the atom and any other args you pass
22:30	hiredman	so if you have (atom 1)
22:30	hiredman	(swap! (atom 1) + 2)
22:30	hiredman	you get 3 in the atom
22:30	hsuh	ok.. got it now..
22:52	hsuh	so there is this clojure wrapper for processing.. i was trying to convert some examples. i'm stuck in the one that calls "p1 = new Point" on the original function... any ideas on how these kind of things map to clojure? (or which manual to RTFM..)
22:53	hsuh	(i mean java's "new" to clojure)
22:56	arohner	hsuh: (let [p1 (new Point)])
22:56	arohner	or (let [p1 (Point.)])
22:56	hsuh	will that be an atom ?
22:56	arohner	that will be a local "variable"
22:56	arohner	that only exists inside the scope of let
22:56	arohner	I say "variable" because it cannot be changed
22:56	hsuh	ok, but then later on the code it is set..
22:57	hiredman	(defstruct point :x :y :z)
22:57	arohner	hsuh: does it need to be modified, or can it be set once at the beginning?
22:58	hsuh	well, if i wanted to map the code directly, this object is set inside a loop
22:58	hiredman	well, then you don't want to do it directly
22:58	hsuh	i dont know if setting the value on the java code has any other side effects
22:59	hsuh	there's a wrapper for point already
22:59	hsuh	(defn point
22:59	hsuh	([x y] (.point applet (float x)(float y))))
23:03	cads	hey, how do i parse strings into numbers?
23:04	arohner	cads: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Formatter.html
23:04	arohner	nm, I'm sleepy
23:13	arohner	cads: try this http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/StringTokenizer.html
23:14	cads	no to-int anywhere?
23:14	arohner	not in clojure, yet
23:15	arohner	you could (read), if you know you're getting ints
23:15	arohner	but that has it's own issues
23:16	arohner	,(doc read)
23:17	arohner	clojurebot?