#clojure – 2009-04-28

2009-04-28

00:01	unlink1	oh
00:01	unlink1	My NPEs are from map or dorun then
00:01	hiredman	...
00:03	unlink1	er.
00:05	qmrw	sssdd~.
02:39	Lau_of_DK	Top of the morning gents
05:44	unlink1	I'm using vimclojure tip, but my syntax highlighting isn't working right (e.g. "def" doesn't get highlighted, it doesn't consider "when-let" a single word, nor does it highlight "-let".
05:44	unlink1	)
08:44	rhickey	how are people holding up with new jar filenames?
08:51	cemerick	rhickey: eh, that's fine by me...but I'll bet that will mess a lot of people up, though, especially people that set up clojure as an svn:external or git submodule, and then point their IDE at projectname/ext/clojure/clojure.jar, etc. I'd suggest copying the jar files to their usual locations as well (clojure.jar, clojure-slim.jar, etc).
08:52	gnuvince	New jar names?
08:53	rhickey	cemerick: I expected that suggestion. I wonder though, once most people are on releases, if they should instead have clojure-1.0.0.jar as their IDE dependency. Trunk will be for devs/patchers
08:54	rhickey	most libs are now distributed with versions in their jar names, no?
08:54	cemerick	rhickey: setting up an svn:externals/git submodule tied to a particular rev/tag is very common, and I view referring to version-numbered jar files as a guarantee of future breakage/irritation.
08:55	cemerick	rhickey: mv foo-1.2.3.jar foo.jar is the first thing I do when I pull in a new dep.
08:56	cemerick	to be clear, this is irrelevant to me (as we keep the clojure/clojure-contrib we use in a separate internal git repo we pull in via a submodule, so it's trivial to rename when we update that repo).
08:56	rhickey	I'm not opposed, I just wonder if it will give people bad habits
08:57	cemerick	tangential Q: why does the compiled-clojure jar retain the .clj files?
08:58	rhickey	cemerick: for tools?
08:59	cemerick	isn't all of the metadata in the class files anyway?
08:59	rhickey	not the source
09:00	cemerick	huh -- if one wanted that, wouldn't one set the 'source' attribute on the clojure.jar entry in the classpath to the clojure-sources.jar file?
09:00	cemerick	(that's what I thought the sources jar was for)
09:01	rhickey	better to ask this on the group
09:01	rhickey	people complained when no source in the main jar
09:01	cemerick	that was mostly rhetorical :-)
09:01	rhickey	I don't care
09:01	cemerick	huh
09:01	rhickey	not a big space savings
09:02	rhickey	slim and sources were invented by others
09:05	cgray	hi, I'm having trouble with doseq: (doseq [x (list 1 2 3)] (doseq [y (list 1 2 3)] (print (str x) (str y)))) is printing some 1-digit numbers, which is not what I would expect...
09:05	cemerick	mmm, filenames in reflection warnings. That's tasty.
09:07	rhickey	cgray: print puts paces between its args, try: (doseq [x (list 1 2 3)] (doseq [y (list 1 2 3)] (print (str x y " "))))
09:08	rhickey	also, doseq support multiple seqs: (doseq [x (list 1 2 3) y (list 1 2 3)] (print (str x y " ")))
09:11	cgray	rhickey: thanks, at least that isolates the bug to my program :)
11:32	cgray	what is the syntax to override a method in a proxy?
11:33	cgray	never mind, i made a mistake
13:18	technomancy	the JVM still supports green threads as an option, correct?
13:24	p_l	technomancy: afaik no
13:27	technomancy	it seems like there's still an advantage to green threads for i/o bound tasks, right? since they're so much cheaper to spin up?
13:27	technomancy	or does pooling threads make that cheap enough with native threads?
13:30	danlarkin_	I think theoretically thread pools slim the gap
13:39	AWizzArd	Does Clojure offer the functionality to append data to a file on disk? If not, what jvm class is the right one for that job?
13:39	kotarak	AWizzArd: probably java.io.FileOutputStream with some option?
13:40	kotarak	maybe duck-streams with some option?
14:55	technomancy	slime's macroexpand makes me so happy
14:57	technomancy	heh: "If none of the macros in Clojure seems complex to you, my company is hiring." (from the book)
14:58	Chouser	'for' is so easy to understand, would be so easy to write if I needed it, I don't see why it's even included in core.
14:59	Cark	hehe
15:00	cgrand	Chouser: how about destructure? :-)
15:01	Cark	~def for
15:02	Chousuke	cgrand: luckily destructure is not a macro!
15:04	cgrand	Chousuke: that's true it doesn't say "If none of the macros (nor their helper fns) in Clojure seems complex to you, my company is hiring."
15:06	Chousuke	it's amusing how most logic in destructure is inside the let form :P
15:06	AWizzArd	Yes, I noticed the same.
15:07	AWizzArd	rhickey: when I have a (def x (ref { ... })) then @x is always a snapshot, that was valid at the time I read it, right? When I am printing a huuge @x into a file and transactions change the contents of this hashmap, it will not interfer with my printing right?
15:08	Chousuke	that's correct.
15:08	AWizzArd	ok
15:11	Chousuke	you need to take care not to do @foo too many times in your code, though
15:12	AWizzArd	why?
15:12	Chousuke	I mean, it's pretty easy to make the mistake of reading it too many times, and expecting the value to be the same each time.
15:12	kotarak	Because you might get different @x's.
15:13	AWizzArd	Ah ok, that. I thought it would cost too much memory or something like that. No no, I am aware that each @x could potentially be a different one.
15:13	AWizzArd	But when I pass it to some function F I need to be sure that inside of F it will not change.
15:14	hiredman	:(
15:14	Chousuke	it's evaluated when the function F is called
15:14	Chousuke	so you pass the value you get from the deref
15:14	AWizzArd	yes
15:15	hiredman	all I get from the latest smack when trying to login is NPE
15:15	kotarak	AWizzArd: that's the trick of alter..
15:15	AWizzArd	What trick?
15:16	kotarak	alter passes a the current value of the ref to a function. So you don't need multiple @x's...
15:18	AWizzArd	yes
15:35	technomancy	is sorted-map the only way to get a map that guarantees order?
15:36	kotarak	array-map also does, I think.
15:36	technomancy	kotarak: thanks; that's what I needed.
15:53	cemerick	FYI but OT: my company and another in the area are sponsoring a presentation by Ben Fry (the Processing guy) in Northampton, MA. It's sure to be interesting. http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/04/28/snowtide-informatics-welcomes-ben-fry-of-processing-fame-to-northampton Northampton is about 2.5 hrs from Boston and NYC, so it might be worth the trip if you're interested in data visualization.
16:03	clojurebot	testing new-send-out
16:03	durka42	hiredman: it works
16:07	hiredman	sorry I forgot to send that to #clojurebot
16:11	lisppaste8	technomancy pasted "metadata on proxies" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79367
16:11	technomancy	any ideas why this fails?
16:11	technomancy	I get java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException
16:12	technomancy	but dnolen was saying yesterday that proxying fns allows you to put metadata on them
16:12	Chouser	yeah, you can't change metadata on an AFn
16:13	technomancy	I wonder what dnolen meant then. he seemed to imply that this would work; maybe I misunderstood him
16:13	Chouser	you can use proxy to give a fn metadata right when you create it.
16:14	technomancy	Chouser: you mean don't use with-meta; use the reader syntax instead?
16:15	Chouser	no, I mean use proxy as you do there.
16:15	Chouser	^(make-funcallable (fn []))
16:15	Chouser	normally a fn has no metadata at all
16:16	technomancy	oh, the new metadata needs to go inside the second param to proxy then?
16:16	technomancy	I see.
16:16	Chouser	yes
16:16	technomancy	thanks!
16:17	Chouser	sure, hope it helps...
16:17	technomancy	it's an unfortunate hack, but I feel better about using it knowing that metadata directly on fns is planned
16:17	technomancy	hopefully in the not-too-distant future
16:18	unlink	I'm using the exact same vim configuration with vimclojure tip on both machines. On one installation, Ubuntu 8.10 VIM 7.1, vimclojure works as expected. On the other, Ubuntu 9.04 VIM 7.2, I am experiencing problems such as keywords spanning hyphens not matching (like when-let) and regular ^N completion not obeying vimclojure's word redefinition (such as command-line-args not completing).
16:18	unlink	I suppose the configuration is not identical -- one runs on top of the 7.1 VIM runtime, and the other on top of the 7.2 runtime.
16:19	kotarak	unlink: did you install a previous version on the second machine before?
16:20	unlink	I don't think so.
16:20	kotarak	I would expect 7.2 to work more smooth than 7.1...
16:21	unlink	Yeah, it works just fine on 7.1. I'm not using ng or anything though.
16:21	kotarak	hmmm...
16:22	kotarak	Is something else different between the two machines? other plugins, settings, etc...
16:23	unlink	Let me try again with a minimal vimrc.
16:30	unlink	Oh, the problem is that I didn't RTFM. I had set filetype indent on, which apparently is synonymous with filetype indent plugin on, but only with VIM 7.1.
16:32	kotarak	unlink: k. Good that it works now. :)
16:35	unlink	kotarak: How do you set omnifunc?
16:35	kotarak	set omnifunc=theFunc()
16:35	kotarak	w/o checking the exact syntax.
16:37	unlink	I mean, it would be setl omnifunc=theFunc, but I mean, I'm asking the correct way to do it for clojure. Am I expected to do it in a filetype aucmd?
16:37	kotarak	unlink: you don't have to do it. VimClojure does it for you.
16:37	kotarak	Just use <C-x><C-o> in a Clojure file. Eg. r-s<C-x><C-o> => read-string, resultset-seq, ...
16:38	unlink	Ok. ^X^O says Option 'omnifunc' is not set.
16:38	kotarak	unlink: did you put "let clj_want_gorilla = 1" in your .vimrc?
16:39	unlink	yes.
16:39	kotarak	Hmm...
16:40	kotarak	Did you start the ng-server?
16:42	unlink	Thanks for your help, I have to go.
16:42	kotarak	k
16:42	Chousuke	gorilla seems to blow up quite spectacularly if the ng server is not running.
16:43	kotarak	Chousuke: not anymore
16:43	Chousuke	maybe I should upgrade then
16:43	kotarak	It just turns off interactivity.
16:44	kotarak	But it blows up with (namespaced) files not being in the classpath or containing syntax errors.
16:45	kotarak	Basic highlighting and <C-n> completion work also without the server.
17:45	kadaver	how do you say :string in clojure contrib sql?
17:45	kadaver	i mena isntead of :int
17:52	eevar__	kadaver: "varchar(255)"
17:52	eevar__	or text, or clob
18:10	technomancy	where does console output go when an agent performs it?
18:10	technomancy	~(send (agent "hi") println)
18:10	clojurebot	No entiendo
18:11	technomancy	is there a separate out for agents?
18:11	technomancy	or are you just not supposed to have side-effects in functions you send them?
18:14	Chousuke	they can have side effects... dunno about the output though :)
18:17	drewr	,(set [4 5 2 8 1])
18:17	clojurebot	#{1 2 4 5 8}
18:17	drewr	,(sorted-set [4 5 2 8 1])
18:17	clojurebot	#{[4 5 2 8 1]}
18:17	technomancy	works but is lame: (let [my-out out] (send (agent "hi") #(binding [out my-out] (println %&))))
18:17	drewr	,(sorted-set 4 5 2 8 1)
18:17	clojurebot	#{1 2 4 5 8}
18:17	drewr	Why does set and sorted-set both sort their sets?
18:18	technomancy	drewr: I don't think order is guaranteed with set
18:19	technomancy	it's sorted for this instance, but you shouldn't rely on it.
18:19	drewr	I actually wanted it unsorted :-)
18:20	technomancy	,(hash-set 4 5 2 8 1)
18:20	clojurebot	#{1 2 4 5 8}
18:20	technomancy	hrm; dunno.
18:21	technomancy	,(array-map 4 4 5 5 2 2 8 8 1 1)
18:21	clojurebot	{4 4, 5 5, 2 2, 8 8, 1 1}
18:21	technomancy	works the same way, but is six kinds of hacky
18:21	technomancy	if you want insertion order, I mean
18:23	hiredman	,(into #{} 8 93 2 1 3)
18:23	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$into
18:23	hiredman	,(into #{} '(8 93 2 1 3))
18:23	clojurebot	#{1 2 3 8 93}
18:30	technomancy	wow, the indentation in the Java implementation of Clojure is pretty weird. =)
18:30	ctdean	You might need to set your tabs
18:31	drewr	technomancy: :-)
18:31	duncanm	hmmm
18:31	duncanm	i can't have two overloads with the same arity?
18:31	duncanm	what if I distinguish them by a type hint?
18:31	technomancy	ctdean: maybe, but some nesting levels don't increase the level of indentation
18:32	ctdean	That is funny.
18:32	ctdean	What file?
18:32	technomancy	ctdean: Agent.java, but I've seen it other places too
18:32	technomancy	is it meant for 4-space tabs then?
18:34	ctdean	Yes, 4 space tabs
18:34	ctdean	Yea, I hate hard tabs myself. But some people like them. cest la vie
18:35	technomancy	well at 4 spaces it looks a bit more reasonable
18:35	hiredman	duncanm: if you want to distinguish beyond arity you need multimethods
18:36	hiredman	the (defn f ([])([])) form only distinguishes based on arity
18:36	hiredman	(dispatches)
18:37	technomancy	just the top-level class defintion of a file doesn't increase the indentation, which I guess is not too weird if you know every file is going to contain only a single class
18:38	technomancy	to each his own. it's not stuff I'm reading often. =)
19:00	kadaver	java.sql.SQLSyntaxErrorException: Syntax error: Encountered "LIMIT" at line 1, column 47. (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
19:00	kadaver	"select * from songs order by timesplayed desc limit 10" ; that gives syntax error on limit 10,why?
19:02	cp2	try putting it before the order by maybe?
19:02	unlink	Does it work from your SQL shell?
19:05	kadaver	dont have a sql shell
19:05	kadaver	jdbc only
19:05	kadaver	before didnt work
19:05	kadaver	"select * from songs limit 10 order by timesplayed desc"
19:05	kadaver	java.sql.SQLSyntaxErrorException: Syntax error: Encountered "10" at line 1, column 27. (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
19:08	unlink	a HA! not=
19:12	kadaver	?
19:12	clojurebot	namespaces are (more or less, Chouser) java packages. they look like foo.bar; and corresponde to a directory foo/ containg a file bar.clj in your classpath. the namespace declaration in bar.clj would like like (ns foo.bar). Do not try to use single segment namespaces. a single segment namespace is a namespace without a period in it
19:13	technomancy	what specifically is wrong with single-segment namespaces?
19:13	technomancy	is it just due to an arbitrary JVM bug?
19:13	technomancy	sorry, "decision". =)
19:15	Chousuke	the chance of collisions would be rather high if single-segment namespaces were common. :/
19:16	technomancy	if your project has the same name as another project, the fact that your classes go in the same namespace is the least of your worries
19:16	Chousuke	and your source directory will be a mess :)
19:17	technomancy	picking a good name is hard
19:18	Chousuke	most of the time you'll want more than one segment in your namespaces anyway, because it doesn't make sense to put everything under one name even within one project.
19:18	Chousuke	unless it's a single file or something.
19:19	technomancy	well, for mire I had a "mire" namespace that launched the server, but the meat of the code was in "mire.commands", "mire.rooms" etc.
19:20	technomancy	then when I wanted to AOT it, I had to move "mire" to "mire.server" for no good reason.
19:20	technomancy	it's a nitpick for sure; just seems really arbitrary.
19:21	technomancy	and whenever it's arbitrary, I assume it's due to the JVM rather than a specific limitation of Clojure. =)
19:22	powr-toc	technomancy: Were you behind the peepcode screencast?
19:22	technomancy	powr-toc: yeah, I wrote the script.
19:23	technomancy	powr-toc: got some feedback?
19:25	powr-toc	technomancy: I got my boss to buy it for me today... I posted to the google group today... basically I thought the illustrative example was really good, but that it wasn't clear who it was pitched at
19:25	powr-toc	or rather the level it was pitched at
19:25	technomancy	powr-toc: yeah, I could see that.
19:26	technomancy	it's hard to be all things to everyone. wanted to cover a wide variety of topics, but it did feel rushed at parts.
19:26	powr-toc	technomancy: I totally understand the pressures though... I did a 20 minute talk on erlang once, and was desperate to get to the good stuff, but felt I had to give some intro/background
19:27	technomancy	I think for people who are really serious about learning Clojure, the screencast and the book complement each other.
19:27	technomancy	the screencast can get you excited and it will probably help cement a few of the trickier concepts that are hard to cover in just text, but it's a lousy reference, so the book is still important.
19:27	powr-toc	technomancy: I think so... as an indicator of clojure adoption do you know how well it's selling btw?
19:28	technomancy	powr-toc: well I did a screencast on Emacs earlier in December, and it's not quite selling as fast as that, but pretty close.
19:28	powr-toc	(not meaning to pry btw ;-) )
19:28	technomancy	the thing is that everyone knows what Emacs is, so everyone who wanted to buy it got it in the first few days.
19:29	technomancy	with Clojure I expect the interest to build more over time, especially as 1.0 is released soon
19:30	powr-toc	good point... I was always curious about that Emacs screencast, maybe I'll have to get that too :-)
19:31	technomancy	it was kind of an experiment to begin with as most PeepCode screencasts have been targeted towards the Ruby community in the past.
19:31	technomancy	powr-toc: people seemed to like the Emacs one a lot. it was definitely more obvious who the audience was. =)
19:33	powr-toc	technomancy: well, the Ruby communities seems to be a good one for that kinda thing, as they tend to be early adopters etc...
19:33	technomancy	yeah, the git screencast was particularly popular
19:33	powr-toc	technomancy: I know a lot of ruby guys who rave about peepcode too
19:33	technomancy	there's always a risk involved in investing in cutting-edge topics, but I think this one paid off.
19:34	powr-toc	technomancy: definitely
19:35	powr-toc	I thought the http://www.youtube.com/user/briantwill presentations were very good too
19:36	kadaver	(loop [[x & xs] res
19:36	kadaver	acc []]
19:36	kadaver	(if (nil? x)
19:36	kadaver	acc
19:36	kadaver	(recur xs (conj acc x))))
19:36	technomancy	yeah, _very_ different style though
19:36	kadaver	can you simplify that?
19:36	technomancy	his are more like lectures
19:36	danlarkin	kadaver: please don't paste multiple lines of code to the channel, use a pastebin like paste.lisp.org
19:37	powr-toc	technomancy: yeah, it's nice with yours to see a bit of the development cycle... it's new to just about everyone who isn't a lisper
19:39	kadaver	hmm its a fold
19:39	technomancy	does anyone have a slime macroexpand hack that pretty-prints the results?
19:41	powr-toc	technomancy: actually, elaborating on that... I find the (emacs) lisp style of development where you eval sexp's into the REPL to be a big improvement over just having a REPL, as is common in ruby circles... having more demonstrations around that would doubtless wow some people
19:42	technomancy	powr-toc: yeah, I wanted to use slime more in the video, but there were some problems getting it set up due to some instability at the time
19:43	technomancy	powr-toc: we decided covering slime would take too much time, so we're doing a separate (free) screencast on clojure editor support.
19:43	powr-toc	sweet!
19:43	technomancy	it already felt rushed; I'm sure you can imagine how it would feel if we spend some time getting slime set up and explaining its features; heh
19:43	powr-toc	technomancy: yeah, that wouldn't have pleased me ;-)
19:44	technomancy	the editors one was supposed to be a teaser, but it got delayed... oh well.
19:44	technomancy	hopefully it can still drive interest
19:45	powr-toc	I've not yet taken jumped to slime, mostly because of the apparant brittleness around versions... clojure-mode with paredit seems pretty good, until you get into using namespaces
19:45	technomancy	powr-toc: last week I would have told you not to worry about breakage, but a few days ago a change to test-is broke clojure-test-mode. =\
19:45	technomancy	that's actually orthogonal to regular slime though.
19:46	technomancy	but you can just wait for the screencast if you want. =)
19:46	powr-toc	hehe... maybe I'll wait a little longer... what killer features does slime give?
19:46	powr-toc	(over clojure-mode/paredit)
19:46	technomancy	oh man... where to start. =)
19:47	powr-toc	hehe... I thought that'd be the answer
19:48	technomancy	the slime manual is pretty comprehensive too
19:48	technomancy	though some of it is CL-specific
19:55	technomancy	if you queue some actions to an agent using send and others to send-off, they're not guaranteed to run in the order you send them, are they?
19:55	technomancy	e
19:56	dreish	Looks like they get added to the same queue.
19:56	dreish	Aw, you drove rhickey away in exasperation.
19:57	technomancy	yeah, that's handy.
19:57	technomancy	heh
19:58	rhickey	http://clojure.org/todo
20:00	dnolen	cool!
20:03	technomancy	"regex literals as fns" <= yes. definitely.
20:03	dnolen	rhickey: what would \|\| for arbitrary symbols be used for?
20:04	kadaver_	how do I ask not emty?
20:04	kadaver_	this isnt very good:
20:04	kadaver_	(if [] 10 20) -> 10
20:04	kadaver_	very bad
20:05	technomancy	kadaver_: you could just say first
20:05	technomancy	though that will fail if its first element is false or nil.
20:05	technomancy	(not (empty? [])) is not too bad
20:05	dnolen	,(seq [])
20:05	clojurebot	nil
20:05	dnolen	,(seq #{})
20:05	clojurebot	nil
20:05	dnolen	,(seq '())
20:05	clojurebot	nil
20:05	technomancy	dnolen wins
20:06	technomancy	dnolen: thanks for that metadata-on-fns hack from yesterday. was a little confused at first but it's working great now
20:06	rhickey	dnolen: for symbolic applications that want to use arbitrary symbols, but not really for program identifiers
20:06	dnolen	technomancy: great! glad to be of help.
20:15	kadaver	bah
20:15	kadaver	haskell >>>> clojure
20:17	unlink	Vimclojure seems to indent only one space more after an open [ on the next line (where I would want two spaces) -- is this desired behavior?
20:17	durka42	i believe that operator is defined as
20:17	durka42	(>>>>) = unsafeTakeOverTheWorld
20:21	kadaver	rather much,much,much, greater than
20:23	technomancy	and here I was taking it to be a military rank.
20:23	technomancy	Major-Sergeant? Fourth Lieutenant?
20:30	spaceman_stu	is there a library or standard way of performing validation on a map?
20:33	spaceman_stu	i'd like to verify that its structure its fields match some standard, and also taht the values are legal
20:42	kadaver	how do you make an sql statement ?
20:42	kadaver	liek delete
20:43	kadaver	DELETE FROM TABLE WHERE SOMECOLUMN = 'HELLO'
20:43	dnolen	kadaver: have you looked clojureql? or using the built in facilities?
20:44	kadaver	DELETE FROM TABLE WHERE SOMECOLUMN = 'HELLO'
20:44	kadaver	contrib/sql, ic ant find docs
20:44	kadaver	how do I make that statement?
20:47	dnolen	I would look at clojureql, it seems to present and interface that's much closer to sql syntax.
20:47	dnolen	http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/clojureql/blob/615527c7d61d0d93f3851079a5729cbaf35c1202/src/dk/bestinclass/clojureql/demo.clj
20:56	arohner	does anyone have a good link on java resources, i.e. the things in jar files
20:56	arohner	google is failing me
20:58	arohner	ah: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/resources/resources.html
21:22	arohner	gah, classloaders are arcane beasts
21:23	arohner	for reasons I don't understand, (clojure.lang.RT/baseLoader) is not the same as the loader that loaded my first clojure class
21:26	kadaver	isnt there just a way to make a delete-statement?
21:27	kadaver	where is contrib?
21:36	arohner	clojurebot: contrib
21:36	clojurebot	contrib is http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
21:39	kadaver	meh its a prett useless wrapper of you cant do delete
22:29	unlink1	Is there a shorthand for (fn [] x)? (i.e. wrapping x in a fn that simply returns it)
22:29	stuhood	(constantly x)
22:30	unlink1	Er, that's longer than fn []
22:31	stuhood	heh. true.
22:31	stuhood	#(do x)?
22:31	stuhood	7 chars instead of 9 =P
22:34	unlink1	heh
22:34	unlink1	lambda: x in python
22:34	unlink1	Actually does clojure have continuations or anything like that?
22:35	unlink1	I mean, besides exceptions.
22:37	stuhood	i guess you could imitation continuations with closures/lambdas
22:38	unlink1	oh
22:38	unlink1	:(
22:38	kadaver	how can you set primary keys from contrib-sql?
22:38	stuhood	unlink1: what languages have continuations built in?
22:39	unlink1	scheme, haskell, ml
22:40	hiredman	I am going to build a clojure powered digital picture frame / internet dashboard widget
22:40	stuhood	interesting. yea... they aren't first class in clojure, but i think you could get pretty close by just trampolining functions
22:40	arohner	don't you have to capture the entire "state of the world" in a continuation?
22:41	chessguy	i don't thinkn continuations are built in to haskell
22:41	chessguy	there are libraries for it
22:42	kadaver	is there a jar of the latest clojure cntrib?
22:42	kadaver	so i cna jsut switch them out?
22:42	stuhood	arohner: probably just more like thread state...
22:43	unlink1	python has something approaching the usefulness of continuations
22:43	chessguy	,(doc read)
22:43	arohner	stuhood: oh right, or else you wouldn't be able to get things done when resuming an old continuation...
22:43	clojurebot	"([] [stream] [stream eof-error? eof-value] [stream eof-error? eof-value recursive?]); Reads the next object from stream, which must be an instance of java.io.PushbackReader or some derivee. stream defaults to the current value of in ."
22:44	stuhood	unlink1: generator functions?
22:44	unlink1	yes
22:45	stuhood	yea... lazy sequences are definitely more difficult to wrap your head around
22:46	chessguy	,(doc print)
22:46	clojurebot	"([& more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. print and println produce output for human consumption."
22:47	unlink1	My use case is generating HTML. I have a function responsible for generating the common skeleton elements of the page, and then other pages which interleave different regions of that function with custom HTML.
22:47	chessguy	why does my repl hang when i evaluate (read)?
22:56	kadaver	why do you use clojure?
23:05	hiredman	chessguy: it is trying to read something
23:05	chessguy	what terminates the input?
23:07	stuhood	it says it reads an object, which i assume would be any valid clojure literal?
23:08	stuhood	yea... execute something like: `(read) 1` at a repl, and the result is 1
23:10	arohner	read turns strings into data structures
23:10	chessguy	"(read) 1" hangs for me too
23:11	arohner	press enter afterwards
23:11	kadaver	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: next in this context (def.clj:102)
23:11	kadaver	user=>
23:11	kadaver	def.clj is where?
23:12	chessguy	arohner: i did that
23:12	arohner	chessguy: how are you starting the repl?
23:13	chessguy	in slime
23:14	arohner	hmm. that works for me
23:14	arohner	user=> (read) 1
23:14	arohner	(read) 1
23:14	arohner	1
23:14	stuhood	works when running clojure.main from the command line
23:14	chessguy	user> (read) 1
23:14	chessguy	user> (read) 1
23:14	chessguy	bah
23:15	chessguy	that didn't paste right
23:15	stuhood	,(read) (println 1)
23:15	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
23:15	stuhood	hahaha
23:16	chessguy	so is my slime broken?
23:16	arohner	try it from the command line and see what happens
23:17	chessguy	try what?
23:17	chessguy	sorry, quite a newbie here
23:17	kadaver	user=>
23:18	arohner	chessguy: np. Start a repl from the command line, and see if read works there
23:19	arohner	java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main -r
23:19	arohner	(read) 1
23:19	chessguy	oh, i need to have clojure.jar in the current directory to do that i guess?
23:20	arohner	you can replace clojure.jar with the path to clojure.jar
23:20	chessguy	assuming i know it :)
23:20	chessguy	hang on
23:20	cads	hey chessguy, are you in a *nix?
23:21	arohner	how'd you get it started then? :-)
23:21	chessguy	os x, yeah
23:23	chessguy	ok got the repl
23:23	cads	clojure.jar has to be in the classpath that you give to java, like : "java -cp $LIBS:$CLOJURE_JAR clojure.lang.Repl" , where LIBS points to clojure.contrib jar
23:24	chessguy	new-host:Clojure awagner$ java -cp core/clojure.jar clojure.main -r
23:24	chessguy	Clojure
23:24	chessguy	user=> (read 1)
23:24	chessguy	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
23:24	arohner	try "(read) 1"
23:24	chessguy	in quotes?
23:24	cads	no
23:24	hiredman	try reading the docstring
23:24	chessguy	oh
23:24	chessguy	ok that works
23:25	chessguy	hiredman: the docstring doesn't say what terminates the input
23:25	hiredman	(doc read)
23:25	clojurebot	Reads the next object from stream, which must be an instance of java.io.PushbackReader or some derivee. stream defaults to the current value of in .; arglists ([] [stream] [stream eof-error? eof-value] [stream eof-error? eof-value recursive?])
23:25	hiredman	"Reads the next object from stream, which must be an instance of java.io.PushbackReader"
23:25	cads	hey, do you guys know a better way of getting command completion than using rlwrap and a completion file?
23:25	hiredman	1 is certainly not an instance of java.io.PushbackReader
23:25	chessguy	i guess i'm not understanding what that means
23:25	arohner	chessguy: it reads one whole valid "thing"
23:26	arohner	one whole valid express
23:26	chessguy	from stdin (by default) right?
23:26	arohner	*expression
23:26	arohner	chessguy: yes
23:26	chessguy	terminated by \n?
23:27	chessguy	that seems to be the case in the repl. it's just broken in slime for some reason
23:27	arohner	what version of clojure are you running?
23:27	kadaver	where is the latestclojure?
23:27	kadaver	is 1.0 out yet?
23:27	hiredman	chessguy: type some in parens with a newline in it
23:27	chessguy	for the repl, i just pulled the zip off of google code
23:27	hiredman	clojurebot: latest?
23:27	clojurebot	latest is 1359
23:28	chessguy	hm
23:28	jmaness	chessguy: Take a look at clojure.lang.LispReader
23:28	chessguy	this repl also hangs if i just evaluate (read)
23:29	chessguy	s/hangs/seems to hang/
23:29	hiredman	you need to type in something for it to read
23:29	chessguy	i did
23:29	hiredman	what?
23:29	chessguy	if i just type (read)
23:29	chessguy	and then hit enter a bunch of times
23:30	hiredman	...
23:30	chessguy	it never stops
23:30	hiredman	read ignores whitespace
23:30	chessguy	oh
23:30	chessguy	well
23:30	hiredman	just like writing clojure code
23:30	chessguy	silly me
23:30	arohner	right, read reads an expression
23:31	chessguy	ok
23:31	chessguy	but that's still not what happens in my slime
23:31	chessguy	in slime, if i type (read)
23:31	chessguy	followed by 3\n
23:31	chessguy	followed by 3\n
23:31	chessguy	etc.
23:31	chessguy	it doesn't stop
23:32	arohner	chessguy: what version are you running? trunk or a release?
23:32	hiredman	slime I know nothing about
23:32	chessguy	what version of clojure you mean?
23:32	arohner	right
23:33	chessguy	hm, not sure off-hand what version is driving my slime
23:34	hiredman	I kind of doubt (read) ever behaved differently
23:34	chessguy	i concur
23:34	hiredman	given how central it is
23:34	arohner	right, but slime has changed significantly
23:35	chessguy	not that you need my opinion
23:35	arohner	and I know that my slime works, and I'm running a fairly recent version
23:35	hiredman	well, he should just upgrade his slime
23:35	arohner	right, but slime versions are somewhat tied to clojure versions
23:37	arohner	i.e. upgrading clojure from before the file layout change or the seq change would require upgrading slime
23:37	chessguy	bah
23:37	chessguy	it's not worth the pain
23:37	chessguy	i'll just live with it
23:38	arohner	my swank-clojure's last commit is from 2009/04/17
23:50	kadaver	bah has namespaxces been chnaged since february?
23:50	kadaver	ava.lang.Exception: No such namespace: clojure (NO_SOURCE_FILE:2)
23:51	kadaver	clojure.contrib.sql not the contrib namespace?
23:54	hiredman	kadaver: best to have code and the exception it causes, not one or the other
23:55	hiredman	~url
23:55	clojurebot	Titim gan �ir� ort.
23:55	hiredman	lisppaste8: url?
23:55	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
23:55	kadaver	http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=4385#a4385
23:56	kadaver	http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=4385#a4386
23:56	hiredman	erm
23:56	hiredman	are you sure that is the exact exception?
23:57	hiredman	anyway, contrib in that code should be clojure.contrib
23:57	kadaver	yes
23:57	hiredman	but I don't see how that would get you an exception about the clojure namespace (which doesn't exist, it was moved to clojure.core)
23:58	hiredman	but nothing there references the clojure namespace
23:58	kadaver	thats the problem i guess?
23:58	hiredman	I suspect the code you pasted is not what is generating that exception
23:59	kadaver	it isnt