#clojure – 2009-04-27

2009-04-27

00:00	st3f4n	yeah but it is like decoding g++ error messages now :)
00:28	bradford	hi clojurians, i have a test-is test that yearns to have side-effecting operations (setup and teardown)
00:28	bradford	what is the best way to do this?
00:28	bradford	right now, i do this:
00:28	bradford	(defmacro def-hbase-test [name table-name column-families test]
00:28	bradford	`(deftest ~name
00:28	bradford	(let [blah# (create-hbase-table ~table-name ~column-families)
00:28	bradford	result# ~test
00:28	bradford	bleh# (disable-table ~table-name) blek# (drop-hbase-table ~table-name)] result#)))
00:29	bradford	the let binding here feels a bit horrid
00:45	technomancy	st3f4n: (if [...] (do is used to make the point that "do" means side-effects are involved
00:45	technomancy	bradford: test-is has a new "fixtures" feature that does that
00:45	technomancy	it's documented pretty well in the source; not hard to use
00:46	technomancy	st3f4n: the typo with quote(a b c) was unfortunate though. =\
01:23	unlink1	How do I "chain" functions, where one takes the result of the previous as its arg?
01:24	hiredman	(doc comp)
01:24	clojurebot	Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the composition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, applies the rightmost of fns to the args, the next fn (right-to-left) to the result, etc.; arglists ([& fs])
01:24	hiredman	,((comp first rest) (range 10))
01:24	clojurebot	1
01:24	unlink1	http://paste.lisp.org/display/79271
01:24	hiredman	,(-> (range 10) rest first)
01:24	clojurebot	1
01:25	unlink1	Or is it idiomatic to have a big let like that?
01:25	hiredman	use comp
01:26	hiredman	(. (File. dir) listFiles)
01:26	hiredman	should be
01:26	hiredman	(.listFile (File. dir))
01:26	unlink1	thanks
01:31	hiredman	bah
01:31	hiredman	http://paste.lisp.org/display/79271#1
01:31	hiredman	where is the lisp bot?
01:32	hiredman	lisppaste8: well?
01:32	unlink1	agh, I want currying
02:32	hiredman	http://www.flickr.com/photos/90204102@N00/3454823876/in/set-72157616928718721/
03:02	bOR_	Hmm. our vimclojure creator isn't around yet, is he? Got it compiled, but still an odd error when opening vim.
03:02	bOR_	invalid argument: 1
03:02	bOR_	in function! vimclojure#PreviewWindow.goHere() dict
03:03	bOR_	and invalid argument: 4
03:03	bOR_	in function! vimclojure#PreviewWindow.close() dict
04:18	AWizzArd	bOR_: kotarak is now here. You should repeat what you said about VimClojure.
04:28	bOR_	ah, thanks.
04:29	bOR_	Hmm. our vimclojure creator isn't around yet, is he? Got it compiled, but still an odd error when opening vim.
04:29	bOR_	09:02 bOR_ invalid argument: 1
04:29	bOR_	bOR_ in function! vimclojure#PreviewWindow.goHere() dict
04:29	bOR_	bOR_ and invalid argument: 4
04:29	bOR_	bOR_ in function! vimclojure#PreviewWindow.close() dict
04:29	kotarak	bOR_: What are you doing when this error arises.
04:29	bOR_	vim newfile.clj
04:29	bOR_	opening an empty file.
04:30	bOR_	started the ng server, typed vim newfile.clj
04:31	bOR_	I did get the ant thing to work though ( the previous problem).. and both on my other work and at home, vimclojure is working fine.
04:32	kotarak	hmmm
04:33	bOR_	is there any way I can screw up in starting the ng server that causes this? I copied all the compiled jars to a single directory, and starting ng server by pointing to the jars in that directory.
04:34	bOR_	brb. getting a coffee :).
04:35	kotarak	bOR_: that should work. I'm guessing, that the numbers are window numbers which don't exist for some reason. But opening a new file shouldn't open the preview window, though...
04:37	bOR_	is that something I could trigger from my .vimrc?
04:37	bOR_	set nocompatible
04:37	bOR_	filetype plugin indent on
04:37	bOR_	syntax on
04:37	bOR_	let maplocalleader = ","
04:37	bOR_	let clj_highlight_builtime = 1
04:37	bOR_	let clj_highlight_contrib = 1
04:37	bOR_	let clj_paren_rainbow = 0
04:37	bOR_	let clj_want_gorilla = 1
04:37	bOR_	let vimclojure#NailgunClient = "/home/boris/.local/src/vimclojure-2.1.0/ng"
04:37	bOR_	set number
04:37	bOR_	set hidden
04:37	bOR_	set showmode
04:38	kotarak	No. But the "builtime" should probably read "builtin"
04:38	bOR_	ohh.
04:39	bOR_	hehe.
04:39	bOR_	spotted that as well.
04:39	kotarak	Otherwise it looks ok.
04:40	kotarak	Hmmm. Which version are you using?
04:40	bOR_	doesn't affect the error message.
04:41	bOR_	7.0.237 (vim), 2.1.0 vimclojure
04:42	bOR_	ah. never tried beyond that first error message. I do get the ,sr to work now though.
04:42	bOR_	hmm. when I do a ,eb from some code, I do get the preview window, but with an error message blinking by.
04:43	kotarak	7.0 is ooold. But I'm not sure this has an effect. Tracking in which version a feature was added in Vim is harder than flying through a black hole and surviving the trip...
04:43	bOR_	Error detected while processing function vimclojure#EvalBlock..3..1:
04:43	bOR_	line 1:
04:43	bOR_	E716: Key not present in Dictionary: _buffer
04:43	bOR_	E15: Invalid expression: "buffer! " . self._buffer
04:43	kotarak	bOR_: you can use :messages to review the error
04:43	bOR_	nod
04:43	bOR_	I remembered that.
04:45	kotarak	Something is messed up, setting up the buffer information.
04:45	kotarak	Just a sec.
04:50	kotarak	bOR_: For the moment I'm suspecting that your vim is simply to old. Can you check it has the copy() function.
04:51	bOR_	will check.
04:51	bOR_	do you know by heart how to check that? otherwise I'll look it up.
04:54	bOR_	ah, using call.
04:55	bOR_	:call copy()
04:55	bOR_	gives 'not enough arguments for function: copy'
04:57	bOR_	:call copy(1) works fine.
04:57	bOR_	i'll install a newer vim and see if that helps, and report back.
04:58	bOR_	then you might just add a warning somewhere saying that vim 7.0.237 and ant < 6.5 give trouble :).
05:05	bOR_	new vim 7.2 works like a charm.
05:05	kotarak	bOR_: I can guarantee 7.2.108 as MacVim to work. :)
05:06	kotarak	Ok :)
05:06	kotarak	Will add a note.
05:06	bOR_	great :). thanks for vimclojure :)
05:06	kotarak	bOR_: np :)
05:09	bOR_	not sure if you want to hear this, but an empty file, with (+ 3 1) and ,el gives an error message. ,et works though
05:09	bOR_	;)
05:09	bOR_	Error detected while processing function vimclojure#EvalLine..vimclojure#ExecuteNailWithInput:
05:09	bOR_	line 9:
05:09	bOR_	E686: Argument of writefile() must be a List
05:10	kotarak	Woops. I see it here, too. Will check!
05:12	kotarak	bOR_; Thanks for the report, will fix it.
05:28	kotarak	bOR_: EvalLine is fixed. There was an ominous -1 behind the getline() call. The fix is pushed to the default branch of the repository.
07:48	samuels	wow it's a fight between clojure and scala in chan popularity
07:48	samuels	almost neck and neck
08:40	AWizzArd	,(class (ref 10))
08:40	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Ref
08:40	AWizzArd	,(instance? clojure.lang.Ref (class (ref 10)))
08:40	clojurebot	false
08:41	AWizzArd	,(instance? Number 25)
08:41	clojurebot	true
08:41	AWizzArd	Uh, what am I missing here?
08:41	hoeck	,(type (class (ref 10)))
08:41	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
08:41	kotarak	,(instance? clojure.lang.Ref (ref 10))
08:41	clojurebot	true
08:42	AWizzArd	ah, danke
09:46	AWizzArd	rhickey: Hi. I wanted to ask if you could maybe add a def- to Clojure, which automatically inserts #^{:private true ..}.
09:46	Chouser	AWizzArd: you're aware of contrib.def ?
09:47	rhickey	AWizzArd: not before 1.0
09:48	AWizzArd	Chouser: Contrib changes too fast for me to track everything. I remember there was something like defvar. Anyway, thanks for the tip.
09:48	AWizzArd	rhickey: Ok, thanks.
09:49	rhickey	everyone ready to switch to hg?
09:49	AWizzArd	WOW :)
09:49	AWizzArd	Very ready
09:50	AWizzArd	If you should decide to switch to hg I think kotarak will make three big crosses in his calendar ;)
09:50	rhickey	does anyone have any experience with bitbucket?
09:51	AWizzArd	I think kotarak has experience with it. He'll be back soon. ( http://bitbucket.org/kotarak/ )
09:53	rhickey	how about IntelliJ w/Mercurial?
09:53	gnuvince	rhickey: I use BitBucket, but have no experience with any IDE's integration with Mercurial.
09:54	AWizzArd	Do you develop Clojure in IntelliJ?
09:54	rhickey	AWizzArd: the Java bits, yes
09:55	rhickey	plus I do all my SVN stuff, patches, diffs etc through IntelliJ
09:55	AWizzArd	I have some experience with NetBeans + Mercurial. Haven't seen IntelliJ so far.
09:59	AWizzArd	http://plugins.intellij.net/plugin/?id=2038 seems to say that there is such a plugin. But the comments are not so nice..
10:00	rhickey	AWizzArd: there's no substitute for official support
10:01	AWizzArd	right
10:02	cemerick	hrm, I guess I better start hoping for a git-hg :-/
10:02	cemerick	Netbeans' hg support is hopelessly bad, IMO
10:02	MikeSeth	tee hee
10:02	Chouser	cemerick: I assumed git-hg existed! it doesn't?
10:02	AWizzArd	cemerick: why do you think so? I found it to be very good.
10:03	AWizzArd	Excellent visual representation, all important features are included...
10:03	cemerick	Chouser: I dunno -- `git hg' does nothing, and searching for git-hg yields no man page...
10:04	Chouser	well, I guess I could re-learn hg
10:04	eevar2	http://kensipe.blogspot.com/2009/02/intellij-81-with-git-support.html :p
10:05	AWizzArd	I found that very easy.. learning hg I mean.
10:05	cemerick	AWizzArd: it's painfully slow, even slower than NB's svn support.
10:05	AWizzArd	Hmm, I have not experienced that. I click on "diff" and this very advanced visual support opens. On my system it is very fast.
10:06	drewr	One would think git-hg would be less impedence mismatch than git-svn.
10:09	rhickey	Still not quite there with: 1) Viable free hosting service with good user management, issues + wiki, 2) using a VCS with support in 3) my main IDE, and 4) in a good commercial hosting service with private plans for my commercial dev, those plans having multiple private repos per project once DVCS (for main/release/staging branches)
10:09	Chouser	that all exists for svn? wow.
10:10	eevar2	github does 1, 2 & 4, while my link above solves 3
10:10	rhickey	So far 2)git 3)Intellij, 4)unfuddle leaves me out of luck on googlecode, so far github doesn't do it for me, their pages always tie up my browser
10:10	eevar2	^^ plug plug ;)
10:11	rhickey	1) googlecode, 2)hg, 4)bitbucket leaves me hurting for 3, and bitbucket delivers a lot less than unfuddle/assembla
10:12	drewr	There is definitely some errant JS somewhere on github.com. FF spins up my fan every time I leave one of those pages open.
10:12	rhickey	drewr: yup
10:12	AWizzArd	rhickey: And using NetBeans instead of IntelliJ is no option?
10:13	rhickey	none better
10:14	AWizzArd	And when having in mind that Clojure will "one day" be rewritten in Clojure, would then IntelliJ and NetBeans be on par?
10:14	AWizzArd	I could think that the devs concentrated on Java productivity so far (for both camps).
10:17	rhickey	are there good visual tools (esp merging and repository viewing) for hg on OS X? (Netbeans as an hg frontend seems like overkill)
10:18	cemerick	rhickey: there's hgk, which is a tk frontend (might be good or bad depending on your perspective)
10:18	rsynnott	github does tend to be TERRIBLY slow
10:19	cemerick	it and gitk share some murky past, and they're roughly equivalent as far as I remember
10:19	cemerick	I much prefer gitx. http://gitx.frim.nl/seeit.html Though, it's obviously moot if hg is the direction.
10:20	rhickey	cemerick: if git I'll still have intellij support
10:21	rhickey	git's bad windows story is also a problem for commercial work
10:21	AWizzArd	The visual support for hg under Windows is very nice with TortoiseHg and NetBeans.
10:21	cemerick	rhickey: FWIW, we use it on windows successfully shrug
10:21	gnuvince	As far as I know, the Mercurial support is still not public on Google Code, is it?
10:22	hoeck	using git here to, on win2k
10:22	AWizzArd	We used git on Windows, before we switched to hg.
10:22	hoeck	s/to/too
10:22	cemerick	if the windows port ever falls down, we can revert to having windows builds done on a share served by a linux box
10:22	cemerick	haven't had to do that yet, but it's there just in case
10:25	rhickey	cemerick: still, the need for that, and lack of support out of the box is a bad smell to the ideology of git, IMO. I hate C programs, shell crap etc. Tools like this should be written in portable HLLs like Python/Java, have good HTTP interfaces etc. The 1970s are over
10:28	Chouser	hg's you're only fit there, isn't it? SVN is mostly C, isn't it?
10:28	cemerick	rhickey: generally, I'd agree. There's so much ideology in that camp that I almost discounted git out of hand, because I didn't want to have to deal with it if we had a problem (same dynamic as here vs. c.l.l., etc). But our evaluation of hg vs. git came out so overwhelmingly in favor of git that I had to bury my ick reaction.
10:29	rhickey	Chouser: svn is old, git is new. Why linux people still insist on building apps with systems tool is beyond me.
10:30	Chouser	well, "linux kernel people" I think answers your question, though not in a way that may be satisfactory to you. Or me.
10:30	rhickey	cemerick: That's interesting - what do you think of google's analysis: http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/DVCSAnalysis
10:30	rhickey	Chouser: that's true for git, but what about all the other stuff written in gcc, all the UI stuff etc?
10:31	drewr	cemerick: Pretty much the same here. Initially chose hg because of its simpler interface/concepts/etc., but eventually the power of git won me over.
10:31	clojurebot	kotarak prefers hg
10:31	AWizzArd	cemerick: We started out with git first. But we happily switched to hg after two months of using it. It's easier to use and we don't miss any feature. With its patch queues and rebasing feature hg pretty much offers a very complete package. Anyway, this is going a bit too flamewarish ;-)
10:31	rhickey	AWizzArd: no one's flaming yet
10:31	AWizzArd	Right. I just can smell it wink
10:32	AWizzArd	clojurebot: botsnack
10:32	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
10:32	rsynnott	ah, hg's in python, of course
10:32	rsynnott	no wonder google went for it
10:34	cemerick	rhickey: I saw that last week. I don't have any requirements to host repos via http, which sounds like was the big deal-breaker for them. I disagree with it on a number of fronts: being able to rewrite history is good (for us), in-place branches are essential IMO, per-file rename tracking reminds me of cvs.
10:34	AWizzArd	rsynnott: I think the Dictator of Python works for google as well.
10:34	Chouser	I use "git svn rebase" all the time for my git-svn repos. ...especially clojure, since I can't commit and want to provide clean, recent patches.
10:34	gnuvince	IMO, Mercurial has this going for it: 1) Command set is practically a carbon copy of Subversion's, 2) The documentation is installed by default, complete and does not use man, 3) More thank quick enough for all my projects; I don't know about Clojure, but if it's good enough for Mozilla, I figure we're safe. 4) Easy to write extensions, 5) lower learning curve than Git (yes it does, Git people), 6) Google Code support.
10:35	AWizzArd	Chouser: I use "hg pull --rebase" quite often.
10:35	cemerick	it's clear that hg and git hit different people's sweet-spots, so some kind of interop is going to be necessary on both ends (and is already there for git -> hg, I think).
10:35	Chouser	AWizzArd: ah, I see that's new. cool.
10:36	AWizzArd	gnuvince: mainly point 5) made us switch from git to hg.
10:37	cemerick	AWizzArd: That always confuses me. SCM, no matter what flavor, is certainly simpler than any of a dozen different technologies/concepts that programmers need to understand back-to-front. Why then is 'learning curve' a big differentiator there?
10:37	Chouser	I agree that git's support for renaming is bizzare.
10:38	marklar	cemerick: I've always thought the same thing
10:39	Chouser	But I love git's inside-repo branches. sigh
10:39	gnuvince	I don't understand the love for that feature
10:40	cemerick	Chouser: git doesn't automagically detect your renames?
10:40	Chouser	I use it all the time. I create and remove branches easily without copying whole working copy checkouts.
10:40	cemerick	gnuvince: having a pile of working copies is really painful, IMO
10:40	Chouser	cemerick: it detects rename at log-view time, or diff-time, instead of at commit.
10:41	cemerick	in place branches + stashes is quite wonderful
10:41	AWizzArd	Chouser: did you try Mercurials patch-queues?
10:41	Chouser	AWizzArd: no, I haven't.
10:41	rhickey	Chouser: yes, you just toggle the version you are working on in place right, rather than switch to a different dir?
10:41	cemerick	Chouser: that always made sense to me shrug
10:41	gnuvince	cemerick: I just think that opaque working copies are not really a benefit
10:41	Chouser	rhickey: yes.
10:42	AWizzArd	rhickey: a propos flamewar - did the creator of this channel give you some administration rights? I mean, just in case...
10:42	rhickey	in hg I'll need multiple dirs? do queues mitigate this at al? http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/managing-change-with-mercurial-queues.html
10:43	rhickey	AWizzArd: I'm trying to understand the diffs here, gathering opinions from people I respect, no war is happening
10:43	cemerick	rhickey: it's actually even a little better than that. You can work for a while, 'stash' your changes associated with a particular branch (not commit them), checkout a different branch, work, commit, and then go back to your original branch, apply what you previously stashed, and be back on your way.
10:44	AWizzArd	rhickey: right, it's going good so far. But in general, if some spammers join or people who just want to cause trouble, can we remove them?
10:46	AWizzArd	The patch queues are nice for example for experimenting with patches. You can have patches A, B, C, D and E. Now you want to see how the current code base works with A and B. Or with A, C and E, or any other combination. One can put patches into the queue, apply some of them, put them back, etc.
10:46	rhickey	cemerick: to the complexity point, I think devs need to push back against inessential complexity at every turn. When I was younger I thought it was a form of power to know all these ridiculous details (tools/APIs), now I want none of it, let me work on something that matters already
10:47	rhickey	cemerick: I'm halfway through my git book, that stashing is adding to index w/o commit?
10:48	Chouser	I think stashing is more like a commit to a special little branch
10:49	AWizzArd	it is comparable to Mercurials shelve
10:49	Chouser	but the commands are used differently. "git stash" takes all your working copy changes, commits them to the stash branch, and the rolls back your working copy.
10:49	rhickey	how do you see what is going on? I hope not just with command-line tools that spew text
10:49	Chouser	now you can apply that stashed patch to either the current branch, or any other you switch to.
10:49	cemerick	rhickey: Absolutely. I guess I'm positing that there is often inherent complexity when it comes to SCM, and using a system that is conceptually simpler than the problems you have will likely lead to difficulty down the road.
10:51	cemerick	rhickey: I don't know the details of how stashes are implemented.
10:51	noidi	git stash is what you use when you're in the middle of some change, but then have to do something that requires you to have a clean copy of the sources
10:51	Chouser	"git stash list" shows changes you've stashed. "git branch" shows all your repo's branches, and which one you're on.
10:51	noidi	i.e. when what you have is too broken/unfinished to be commited, but you've done enough work that you don't want to lose it
10:51	Chouser	...plus my bash prompt shows me my current branch name
10:52	rhickey	one q I have about all of these is where do your stashes/microbranches etc go? I want them all up on a host, not on my local drive
10:52	cemerick	rhickey: FWIW, I (in general) despise command-line tools as well. Thankfully, gitx allows me to eschew them for the most part, although stashing and such are still on the command line.
10:53	cemerick	rhickey: stashes are local-only, I believe. All branches (by default) will get pushed to your remote when you 'git push'
10:53	noidi	a simple clojure question: can I make :use import everthing that the :used namespace has imported?
10:53	rhickey	I routinely work on 3 different machines, local drives are my nemesis
10:54	cemerick	noidi: I don't think so, no.
10:56	noidi	is there a reason why the imported java symbols are handled differently from the symbols defined in the namespace?
10:57	Chouser	I generally keep changes stashed for no more than a couple minutes at a time. As cemerick said, all regular in-repo branches are pushed by default.
10:57	cemerick	rhickey: yeah, stashes do not get cloned, so if you wanted to avoid storing anything locally, you'd create and commit to a temporary branch and then merge it back in when you're ready.
10:58	cemerick	Ugh, that reminds me of what really killed me w/ hg -- can't delete branches or tags (maybe that's changed?)
10:59	drewr	hg has named, in-repo branches, but they're cumbersome.
10:59	clojurebot	kotarak prefers hg
10:59	noidi	what's the best way to deal with repeating sets of imports? I was hoping I could create a module that does the importing and the :use it, but apparently that's not possible :P
10:59	noidi	*then
10:59	drewr	Why is clojurebot only tormenting me?
11:01	cemerick	noidi: you could create a fn that does your imports, and then have a top-level invocation of that fn in whatever other namespace needed them.
11:01	noidi	cemerick, ok, I'll do that, thanks
11:02	cemerick	not super-clean, but it'd work. I don't often need very many imports, and when I do, I only need them in one ns.
11:02	chessguy_work	clojurebot: be nice
11:02	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithsc�al?
11:02	rhickey	so, with git/hg is there a simple way to say - store whatever I'm doing (complete or not) on the server and let me go home, pull down, and continue? for hg will I have to do that in every branch dir?
11:03	rhickey	that's the #1 feature I'm looking for
11:03	Chouser	in git that would be "git commit -a; git push"
11:04	rhickey	Chouser: what if I'm not ready to commit?
11:04	noidi	you can commit into a temporary branch
11:04	Chouser	you'd end up with intermediate commits, so you wouldn't want to be pushing to the public main repo
11:04	noidi	or you can turn that commit into a patch and then remove the changeset from your repo
11:04	rhickey	that's ok
11:05	cemerick	a temporary branch is a 'git checkout' away, too
11:05	rhickey	cemerick: saw that
11:05	rhickey	and for hg?
11:05	cemerick	that's what I'd do, just so that whoever's tracking master doesn't get confused.
11:05	Chouser	well, you can't have multiple bit branchs in an uncommitted state, just the current one
11:05	noidi	actually that's the case where I most often use stash
11:05	Chouser	s/bit/git/
11:05	rhickey	presuming multiple branches with different features/experiments/fixes in progress?
11:06	noidi	"oh man, I should've done this change in its own branch. git stash; git checkout -b newbrach; git pop"
11:06	Chouser	noidi: yeah, I do that.
11:06	noidi	git stash pop
11:06	rhickey	Chouser: I don't understand, can;t have multiple branches uncommitted ?
11:07	cemerick	rhickey: same workflow, your temp branches would just be rooted by something other than master.
11:07	rhickey	cemerick: a single root?
11:08	cemerick	rhickey: or multiple, totally depends on what strains of development you have going on
11:08	Chouser	all your branches are at a committed state, plus you have your working-copy changes on top of your current branch. If you want to set aside those changes and that branch to work on some other branch, I think you have to commit your current working-copy changes before you switch.
11:09	rhickey	cemerick: multiple independent strains
11:09	rhickey	Chouser: or what happens?
11:10	AWizzArd	In Mercurial you would probably want to have one directory for each real branch, and then work in those. Mercurial supports hard links, to not waste space.
11:10	cemerick	rhickey: your WC changes get carried with you to the branch you're switching to. Remember though, there's zero cost to creating a temp branch and committing to it.
11:10	rhickey	cemerick: I'm trying to tease out if git's in-repo branches are needed for easy put-up-everything workflow
11:10	AWizzArd	When you are done with work just commit your changes in the middle of your work and click on "push".
11:11	cemerick	rhickey: ah, I see. They certainly make things much, much easier, IMO. cd-ing back and forth to different clones (branches in hg's parlance) gets tiring really quickly (again, IMO).
11:11	rhickey	cemerick: that sounds like a dangerous mistake possibly (change w/o commit)?
11:12	cemerick	rhickey: same behaviour as svn, interestingly. svn update from another branch just leaves the wc changes in place.
11:12	AWizzArd	In git I found it a bit cumbersome to always keep in mind in what branch I was.
11:12	rhickey	cemerick: but I'm not working in place like I would be with git
11:13	rhickey	with svn I used separate dirs
11:13	cemerick	oh, you were referring to hg
11:13	noidi	the best part about in-repo branches is that everything stays in its own path
11:13	cemerick	irc strikes again :-)
11:13	noidi	in the same path
11:14	noidi	for example, with hg you would have to constantly change the classpath to point to whatever branch you're working on
11:14	rhickey	cemerick: no, git, switching branches in place with uncommitted changes on disk
11:15	Chouser	if you try to switch branches with uncommitted changes, it will refuse to switch
11:15	rhickey	Chouser: ah, thanks
11:15	Chouser	error: You have local changes to 'foo.clj'; cannot switch branches.
11:15	rhickey	so, it seems like git's in-repo branches might really matter to me...
11:16	rhickey	and if you have 'shelved' stuff and push to server, they just get left locally?
11:16	rhickey	(git here)
11:16	cemerick	yes, which is why I kept on bringing up temp branches.
11:16	AWizzArd	btw rhickey, you maybe want to read check out this comparison: http://rg03.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/mercurial-vs-git/
11:17	rhickey	cemerick: yes, I guess then that shelving wouldn't be as much of a feature for me then
11:17	Chouser	I use stash specifically to transport changes to a different branch, or to set aside changes for a minute while rebasing.
11:18	Chouser	I don't use it for any longer-term storage than that, though I suppose some people might.
11:18	cemerick	it would still be useful for super-quick stuff (i.e. "damn, this should be on a different branch"). But yes, you wouldn't get as much mileage out of it as others would.
11:18	cemerick	I have stuff in a stash for weeks, sometimes. I guess I should create a temp branch for that kind of stuff, but I generally don't.
11:19	noidi	the four killer features of git (which made me convert from hg) were svn support, history rewriting, stashing, and local branches
11:19	Chouser	this is one of the benefits of command line tools that spew text. you're a 3-line bash script away from "git-temp-push"
11:19	noidi	the three latter, when used together, allow you to develop in any way you want and forget about version control, but still end up with a nice history of changes
11:19	cemerick	noidi: +1
11:20	noidi	this blog summarizes it well http://tomayko.com/writings/the-thing-about-git
11:20	noidi	especially "Git means never having to say, you should have"
11:23	rhickey	It also seems like, when looking at hosts, multiple repos for a single project is less necessary with git, given in-repo branches, whereas each branch would be a separate repo on the server in hg?
11:24	Chouser	the bulk of my git experience is when used with an svn server :-) ...so I can't speak to that.
11:26	cemerick	AFAIK, there should be a maximum of one repo per user server-side (assuming each user forks the repos they have access to), regardless of the SCM. The difference with branches only means that there's one working copy per branch you check out in hg, but generally only one working copy per repo with git.
11:26	AWizzArd	rhickey: you don't need different repositories/directories. Those changes would just not be merged until you are ready.
11:26	rhickey	when I evaluated hg use for commercial dev, it was a big concern that work in progress not live only on dev's local drives, so that meant mirroring their local repos on a server anyway
11:27	AWizzArd	In the visualization for hg you would see how one or two lines spread away from the history (the new branches).
11:27	AWizzArd	rhickey: http://www.infoq.com/resource/articles/dvcs-guide/en/resources/tortoise-hg.png
11:28	AWizzArd	in this upper window you see that yellow and green line
11:28	rhickey	cemerick: I'm not clear on that - say I'm working by myself on 3 branches at once, with git that's one server-side repo, with hg?
11:28	AWizzArd	It seems that hg works well for the Firefox and NetBeans developers.
11:29	drewr	rhickey: There's a social issue in there somewhere. git's philosophy is that since branching, committing, etc. is so cheap, that you should do it frequently. There really shouldn't be longstanding works in progress that aren't commits.
11:29	AWizzArd	rhickey: you can have it all in one repo in hg. It just depends on how deep the changes are. Typically one is not doing huge branches in one single repo.
11:29	rhickey	drewr: still, commits to branches
11:30	rhickey	AWizzArd: rightm, that's my point, if I need to work on a feature that will take weeks, it will need its own branch and repo on the server in hg?
11:30	rhickey	but its own branch in-repo in git
11:31	rhickey	is that right?
11:31	drewr	You can do in-repo branches (they're called named branches) in hg, but they're painful.
11:31	scottj	I have a function that calls pmap and if I call it from the repl it returns immediately after printing its output, but if I run the same program without the repl (as a script), it prints the output but waits one minute to quit. If I change the pmap to map it quits immediately after printing the output (total time roughly 5 seconds). pmap is being applied to a coll of 11 items, so 11 threads I think. It shouldn't take that long to close them should it?
11:32	Chouser	scottj: you need to shut down the agent pool
11:32	drewr	Chouser: Just doing that doesn't help.
11:32	drewr	I've been having the same problem.
11:32	Chouser	oh?
11:32	cemerick	rhickey: again, AFAIK (which isn't a ton w.r.t. hg deployment issues -- just what I've gleaned from friends that use it), there's still just one repo server-side with hg
11:33	cemerick	scottj's problem came up on the mailing list, too.
11:33	drewr	Chouser: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/7490698d3e4a6ed1
11:33	AWizzArd	It could be in one repo. I just think this is not typical for hg users.
11:33	cemerick	it's a problem with c.l.Agent using a default thread pool that uses non-daemon threads.
11:33	naeu	what's the motivation for having both vectors and lists in clojure?
11:33	Chouser	sorry, I'm hardly reading the list at all anymore. :-/
11:33	rhickey	cemerick: not one for stable, one for dev etc? that's what I see on bitbucket
11:34	cemerick	rhickey: oh, you can do that, but I don't think it's required. Maybe that's idiomatic? (Maybe I'm simply wrong :-) )
11:34	AWizzArd	Here are some screenshots showing how someone merged different branches inside one hg repo: http://bitbucket.org/tortoisehg/stable/wiki/screenshots
11:35	drewr	Chouser: I don't blame you. I can skim it at best.
11:35	rhickey	cemerick: if daemon, then people would complain they didn't finish
11:36	AWizzArd	And btw, http://rg03.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/mercurial-vs-git/ is a fair comparison.
11:36	drewr	scottj: What's worse is that a script invoked from cron seems to never exit.
11:36	drewr	I have no idea why that execution environment should have different behavior.
11:37	noidi	is it possible to define some code in a Clojure module that's only executed when the file is run using clojure.main?
11:37	cemerick	rhickey: why would that happen? All the 'daemon' indicates is that the threads won't prevent the exit of the vm.
11:37	scottj	drewr: Chouser: luckily for my script adding shutdown-agents did cause it to quit immediately. w/o shutdown-agents: 1m6s, w/ shutdown-agents: 3s
11:38	rhickey	cemerick: right now they can fire off work in agents, call shutdown-agents, and it will wait for those jobs already running to complete, if daemon they'll die immediately
11:42	rhickey	thanks all for the dvcs info - moving to a different machine now...
11:44	cemerick	rhickey: I guess I'd say that perhaps shutdown-agents should include a call to awaitTermination, assuming shutdown-agents is only usefully called in -main
11:45	rhickey	cemerick: ok, patch welcome
11:46	cemerick	heh. :-P The problem being, of course, that I've never actually used agents.
11:47	rhickey	ok, issue welcome then :)
11:47	danlarkin	jdk7 gets invokedynamic yay
11:47	cemerick	yeah, I could do that :-)
11:47	rhickey	with your suggestion for patch
11:47	rhickey	bbl
11:47	cemerick	maybe drewr is a contributor?
11:48	drewr	I can try it out.
11:49	noidi	can I somehow check if I'm in the "user" namespace?
11:49	cemerick	noidi: there's probably some clojure.core var that indicates what filename(s) were provided to clojure.main
11:49	danlarkin	,ns
11:49	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/ns
11:49	danlarkin	,ns
11:49	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
11:49	noidi	I'm writing some unit testing code, and would like each test module to be runnable from the console
11:49	noidi	but also to be able to run all the tests at once
11:49	drewr	(= (str ns) "user")
11:49	drewr	,(= (str ns) "user")
11:49	clojurebot	false
11:49	drewr	,(= (str ns) "sandbox")
11:49	clojurebot	true
11:50	magnet	<rhickey> cemerick: still, the need for that, and lack of support out of the box is a bad smell to the ideology of git, IMO. I hate C programs, shell crap etc. Tools like this should be written in portable HLLs like Python/Java, have good HTTP interfaces etc.
11:50	magnet	there's JGit which is Git ported in Java
11:50	magnet	and afaik it's fully compatible, up-to-date and people are maintaining it
11:50	magnet	(sorry to bump in so late :)
11:50	cemerick	drewr: the patch would be pretty easy. I think. :-)
11:51	cemerick	I just have no way to test/confirm it.
11:51	noidi	i dislike git, both its interface and the implementation, but it's the only tool that lets me do whatever I want, so that's what I use :)
11:51	magnet	well with JGit I think more graphical tools/sugar will come and make it easier to use for SVN people
11:52	noidi	I hope so
11:52	magnet	in fact Eclipse is considering moving to Git and they are planning on putting a lot of support to their Git plugin (EGit, based on JGit, by the same developer)
11:52	drewr	cemerick: I don't have a reliable way to reproduce it either.
11:52	magnet	and that dev is Shawn Pearce (Google) who did Gerrit, a web interface for tasks that works over git
11:53	drewr	It doesn't happen with my isolated tests.
11:53	cemerick	drewr: I thought you had some code that was falling down?
11:53	cemerick	ah.
11:53	AWizzArd	Just recently the Python devs decided to use hg.
11:53	kotarak	Surprise....
11:53	AWizzArd	Also NetBeans sits in a hg repo.
11:53	kotarak	Mozilla does also... And OpenJDK, OpenSolaris, ....
11:54	kotarak	Xen, AFAIK.
11:54	cemerick	4 out of 5 dentists agree.... :-P
11:54	AWizzArd	I think both candidates offer basically all Rich needs.
11:55	kotarak	cemerick: sorry. I have to cheer for hg a bit. ;) git has enough support out there.
11:55	danlarkin	this really is vi vs. emacs
11:56	cemerick	kotarak: no need to apologize. I want vigorous competition.
11:56	magnet	Using git: Linux, Android, most of Freedesktop.org, OLPC, Compiz Fusion, most Ruby projects, some Debian stuff, Fedora, GCC, Qt (moving to it), ...
11:56	cemerick	indeed, one's choice is completely dependent upon specific circumstances and taste.
11:56	magnet	cemerick, I agree :)
11:57	AWizzArd	magnet: I think when we add their LOC they come close to what the OpenJDK uses alone ;-)
11:57	AWizzArd	Anyway, gtg
11:57	cemerick	appeals to who's using what are mostly useless though, assuming critical mass achieved on both sides.
11:58	magnet	yeah, but there are two kind of projects; stuff for end-users and stuff for developers (libraries, languages, ..)
11:58	Chouser	actually, it is a bit worse than emacs/vi. rhickey's choice of editor has little effect on me, while his choice of vcs has a direct impact
11:58	magnet	maybe hg has more dev-tools projects
11:58	drewr	cemerick: Is this awaitTermination() what you were thinking? http://is.gd/lBeB
11:58	cemerick	Chouser: indeed. We seriously need a git-hg, just to cover our asses. :-D
11:59	kotarak	I would prefer hg, because 1) it's not written in C (only a small perf critical part), 2) has a nicer UI and 3) my encounters with the community where nicer than that with the git guys. Oh. And 4) I don't have to GC my repo. So as you say, cemerick, personal preference and taste mostly...
11:59	cemerick	drewr: right -- adding a call to that for each executor in c.l.Agent, and setting up both executors to use ThreadPoolFactories that emit daemon threads should do the trick.
12:00	drewr	Whoops, I meant http://is.gd/k43a
12:00	danlarkin	Chouser: you're right... at least vi & emacs can both edit the same files. Would be nice if git/hg could interoperate
12:01	naeu	I think the biggest benefit of git currently is the wonders of github, which really gives an amazing community experience for working together on a shared codebase - bitbucket pales in comparison
12:01	kotarak	danlarkin: the that's an interesting idea: Why isn't there a common protocol for exchanging changesets? So hg can pull from git, git can push to monotone... That would be nice. But I figure the information associated with the changes are too different between the systems...
12:02	magnet	kotarak, well, there's diff ;)
12:03	gnuvince	cemerick: I don't know about git-hg, but hg-git is a Google summer of code project.
12:05	cemerick	another "surprise, surprise" :-)
12:15	hiredman	I am using zip-filter and tagsoup to screenscrape a webpage, is there some way to filter on a certain css class with zip-filter?
12:28	Chouser	hiredman: not built in, but you coulre write a fn like attr= to do it for you.
12:28	Chouser	could
12:34	hiredman	hmm
12:46	hiredman	http://weblogs.java.net/blog/forax/archive/2009/04/invokedynamic_n_1.html
12:46	noidi	macroexpand-1 doesn't seem to work in tests defined using test-is's deftest
12:47	noidi	!paste
12:47	cgrand	hiredman: you can use some parts of Enlive to screenscrap: (select (html-resource "http://clojure.org/") [:.my-class]) return a seq of nodes
12:47	noidi	,paste
12:47	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: paste in this context
12:48	noidi	clojurebot, what's the url to paste code snippets?-)
12:48	kotarak	lisppaste8: url
12:48	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
12:48	danlarkin	hiredman: cheer
12:49	hiredman	I just ended up doing (-> soup first :content :first ...)
12:51	lisppaste8	noid pasted "deftest and macroexpand-1" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79305
12:52	noidi	is there any way around that?
12:52	noidi	I'd like to write unit tests for my macros
12:54	AWizzArd	You can do that
12:54	noidi	hmm, one way seems to be to capture the macro expansion in a let form around the deftest
12:54	AWizzArd	In general the idea is to compare the expansion of the macro
12:55	AWizzArd	,(macroexpand-1 '(when true 15))
12:55	noidi	AWizzArd, that's what I'm trying to do, but macroexpand-1 doesn't work inside the deftest
12:55	clojurebot	(if true (do 15))
12:55	AWizzArd	it doesn't work in deftest? That sounds strange
12:56	noidi	see my paste
12:56	noidi	it's as if the macro wasn't defined at all
12:56	noidi	oh well, wrapping the deftest in a let works well enough as a workaround for now
12:56	hiredman	hmmm
12:57	cgrand	noidi: in which ns do you run your tests?
12:57	lisppaste8	noid pasted "deftest and macroexpand-1 (workaround)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79306
12:57	AWizzArd	noidi: for me it works
12:58	noidi	here's my (non-anonymized) workaround
12:58	Chouser	cgrand: I still haven't taken a look at enlive, though it sounds great. Did you end up using zip-filter inside?
12:58	AWizzArd	noidi: If I (run-tests 'my.namespace) or if I call your (test-foo) directly. bar gets printed.
12:59	noidi	cgrand, that's a good point, they get run in user
12:59	cgrand	Chouser: I used zip-filter at some point but not any more
12:59	noidi	cgrand, thanks
12:59	cgrand	and user/foo doesn't exist
12:59	rhickey	any reason not to remove the assert-if-lazy-seq stuff now?
13:00	noidi	it'd make sense if the tests would be run in the namespace that they're defined in
13:00	noidi	okay, that sentence itself did not make any sense, though :)
13:00	Chouser	cgrand: was it's inability to change the tree along the way a factor in your abandoning it? Or something else?
13:01	noidi	i'll try again: I think it would be logical that each test would be run in the context of the namespace that it was defined in
13:01	AWizzArd	noidi: how do you run the tests?
13:01	Chouser	I suspect enlive is better than zip-filter for all of zip-filter's use cases...
13:01	cgrand	Chouser: with zip-filter the hard part was to sort/merge the locs returned by the filter
13:01	Chouser	cgrand: are you using zippers at all?
13:02	noidi	AWizzArd, I call a .clj from a shell using clojure.main
13:02	Chouser	rhickey: no objection here -- I've been forgetting to build clojure with the flag for weeks now.
13:02	cgrand	Chouser: I'm exclusively using zippers
13:15	Chouser	whoa
13:16	rhickey	whoa what?
13:16	Chouser	big commit
13:16	Chouser	:-)
13:16	rhickey	not realy
13:16	rhickey	really
13:17	Chouser	oh
13:21	Lau_of_DK	Good evening guys
13:28	cgrand	evening sir
13:34	cgrand	rhickey: what's the problem with closed-over clearing in lazy-seqs and delays? Is it related to streams?
13:36	technomancy	the docstring for file says it's nil in the REPL, but it actually returns "NO_SOURCE_PATH"
13:37	rhickey	cgrand: I haven't changed the behavior, only the promise. I'd like to potentially support source-code backends, where doing that might be prohibitive, but once streams are in play there are other ways to do similar things. Basically, I don't want to be tied to the current behavior
13:37	technomancy	should that be an issue+patch?
13:38	cgrand	rhickey: ah ok, thanks
13:46	technomancy	nice; looks like invokeddynamic made it into openJDK.
13:55	technomancy	hrm; looks like a recent test-is change broke clojure-test-mode
14:24	rhickey	anyone using/tried Assembla?
14:58	cemerick	it seems like conj should use a bindable var to determine what to produce if the provided coll is nil. e.g. (binding [nil-conj hash-set] (conj nil 5)) => #{5}
15:01	hiredman	:(
15:01	arohner	cemerick: why a var? why not another argument?
15:02	cemerick	arohner: I think that would make things difficult if not impossible given the contracts of alter, update-in, etc.
15:04	cemerick	hiredman: why :-( ?
15:05	rhickey	cemerick: why not a builder fn (alter x (conj-on hash-set) foo)?
15:06	hiredman	cemerick: nil is not part of the set of hashset things
15:06	hiredman	if that makes sense
15:07	hiredman	operations that produce hash-sets should not also produce nil?
15:08	hiredman	nil is (or was?) part of the contract for sequences, so nil stands in as the empty seq in a lot of places
15:09	rhickey	(seeded-conj #{}) ?
15:09	cemerick	rhickey: that certainly seems like a superior approach. I'm glad I don't censor my semi-stupid questions / thoughts.
15:09	cemerick	hiredman: yeah, that makes sense
15:10	cemerick	+1 for conj-on, or conj-with perhaps.
15:10	rhickey	I'm thinking the initial value is more succinct than the ctor fn, in general
15:10	hiredman	isn't that what into does anyway?
15:11	Chouser	#(apply conj (or % #{}) %&)
15:11	rhickey	hiredman: this function would return a fn like conj, but with special handling of nil coll
15:11	hiredman	I see
15:12	technomancy	did not know you could do that; very handy
15:12	cemerick	FWIW, what prompted this was my using update-in, but wanting to have sets created if no value was present at the key-path I provided. I ended up doing (update-in [keys] clojure.set/union #{new-value})
15:13	rhickey	cemerick: this comes up a lot of places
15:14	cemerick	yeah, I hit it all the time, usually wanting a set or vector instead of a list
15:14	rhickey	technomancy: %& my addition to the mathematica syntax I, um, borrowed
15:14	rhickey	cemerick: I always wonder if named versions of the common cases would be useful, although conj-on or whatever covers all
15:15	technomancy	good artists copy, great artists steal.
15:15	technomancy	=)
15:15	cemerick	rhickey: people will def conj-vec and conj-set using conj-on if it's not already def'ed in core
15:17	rhickey	ah, people
15:19	cp2	damn people
15:22	technomancy	oh nice; it's based on webkit
15:23	technomancy	I wonder if it could expose the DOM.
15:23	cemerick	rhickey: I've embraced Swing, once and for all. You'd be wise to do the same.
15:23	Chouser	every browser already exposes the DOM to applets, don't they?
15:23	Chouser	cemerick: ha!
15:24	cemerick	Chouser: yeah, but that does nothing for desktop apps.
15:24	technomancy	Chouser: I've never looked at applets, but most "here's a browser" dynamic language bindings have been very poor in that regard.
15:24	rhickey	cemerick: I don't think I had the same use cases for it as you (full UI in HTML), but just embedding scenarios where it's really handy to have a solid web renderer
15:25	Chouser	cemerick: I assume you mean swing wrapped around webkit wrapped around canvas with a JavaScript interpreter implementing a widget toolkit that looks like swing?
15:25	cemerick	rhickey: long term, I think the former is a subset of the latter.
15:26	rhickey	http://java.dzone.com/news/future-jwebpane-and-evening
15:26	cemerick	Chouser: AFAIC, screw swing -- just webkit with some native-platform hooks and java interop will do me just fine
15:27	cemerick	like, ahem, titanium, but with less suckage in key areas
15:27	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Are you signed for JAOO DK yet ?
15:27	abrooks	Sun + Oracle --> S'nacle (rhymes with cynical...)
15:27	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: I'm not doing JAOO
15:28	Lau_of_DK	You must
15:28	rhickey	Alredy turned it down, sorry
15:28	rhickey	already
15:28	Lau_of_DK	Im really sorry to hear that
15:28	Lau_of_DK	You let your danish crowd down, all 5 of us
15:29	rhickey	Let's get everyone together in NYC for a Clojurefest sometime!
15:29	st3f4n	rhickey: i am just getting my feet wet with clojure and i very much like it. i'm just wondering .. do you think it will be possible in a future version to have much better error reporting? rihght now the java stack traces with the mangled names don't have a lot of info in them.
15:29	Lau_of_DK	Sorry - Im not getting trapped in your Police state! :)
15:30	st3f4n	rhickey: well, they do have a lot of info, but nothing really relevant pointing back to the actual clojure code :)
15:30	abrooks	rhickey: Hm. We're not quite ready for the Javits center... what venue did you have in mind for NYC?
15:30	Chouser	st3f4n: are you using slime/swank?
15:30	st3f4n	Chouser: yes i am
15:30	rhickey	st3f4n: you can make specific reports of confusing messages on the group, but most of the time people seem to be getting not good first-line messages from slime
15:30	Chouser	st3f4n: are you aware of how to get past the final cause?
15:31	st3f4n	Chouser: nope?
15:31	rhickey	vs the repl itself, which bubbles up the cause
15:31	Chouser	st3f4n: I think there's some kind of menu -- you can press 1 or something to see the next cause
15:31	technomancy	what ever happened to that clj-backtrace project?
15:31	Chouser	often the second or root cause gives you more helpful info than what slime prints by default
15:32	st3f4n	but wil clojure ever be able to say 'i don't understand this or that on line 123 of my-source.clj' ?
15:32	Chouser	yeah, it says that today
15:32	st3f4n	hmm
15:32	st3f4n	well i'll give it another tr
15:32	st3f4n	y
15:32	Chouser	well, not so much "i don't understand", but it names the .clj file name and line number almost all the time.
15:33	arohner	technomancy: I use clj-backtrace all the time
15:33	arohner	it's very nice
15:34	technomancy	arohner: it doesn't tie in with slime yet, does it?
15:34	arohner	not that I'm aware of
15:34	technomancy	just what I need; another backburner project. =)
15:34	arohner	I know the feeling :-)
15:35	replaca	Q: Is it possible to get arglist info on multimethods? It appears not.
15:36	replaca	you can do (methods m) but the resulting map has funcs with no metadata
15:37	ciaran	anyone care to comment on my first bit of Clojure (Fibonacci)? http://pastie.textmate.org/private/90utvl5hrun7mrow8hvdcq
15:37	replaca	cemerick: I'm using it all over the place for doc generation and it's fabulous
15:38	cemerick	replaca: that's var metadata -- fns can't yet have metadata
15:39	Chouser	seems like you'd want arg metadata on the defmulti var or object as well, rather than any fn, wouldn't you?
15:39	cemerick	Chouser: all of the above -- args aren't necessarily the same among all methods
15:40	replaca	Chouser: hmm, well the arg data really lives on the individual methods. Does anything (other than convention) force it to be the same?
15:40	technomancy	ciaran: your defmulti dispatch function could be simpler
15:40	technomancy	ciaran: #(= (#{1 2} %) %) could be {1 true 2 true}
15:40	technomancy	since maps are functions
15:41	Chouser	all the methods for a multi better have at least roughly the same args, don't you think?
15:41	replaca	Chouser: Says who?
15:41	cemerick	decidedly not
15:41	Chouser	hm
15:41	replaca	Chouser: I mean, in most cases I agree with you, but there's nothing in the language that says so
15:41	ciaran	technomancy: and then use true / nil? Neat
15:42	Chousuke	couldn't it just be #{1 2}
15:42	replaca	Chouser: and therefore, the metadata should enable what the language enables
15:42	technomancy	Chousuke: yeah, but then you'd need a defmethod for one and a defmethod for 2, right?
15:42	Chousuke	though then you couldn't dispatch on false :P
15:42	cemerick	Chouser: consider a merge-interval multimethod, where you might have N different representations of intervals (series of numbers, pairs of vectors, Java-land impls, etc)
15:42	technomancy	unless there's a way to have a default defmethod
15:43	Chousuke	technomancy: hmm
15:43	cemerick	technomancy: that's what the :default dispatch value is for
15:43	technomancy	cemerick: heh; yeah I just found that in the book.
15:43	Chousuke	technomancy: well you could #(boolean (#{1 2} %))
15:44	replaca	Chouser: One thing I see people do is add different tag data for the different method sigs
15:44	Chouser	cemerick: but aren't those args representing the same thing? The intervals to be merged?
15:44	technomancy	ciaran: http://p.hagelb.org/fib.clj.html
15:45	replaca	none of which answers my original question! :-)
15:45	cemerick	Chouser: sure, but the 'unpacked' version makes it very different. (merge-intervals [1 5] [4 7]) vs (merge-intervals 1 5 4 7)
15:46	ciaran	technomancy: cool
15:47	Chouser	cemerick: so what are the two different arg metadatas you'd like to see?
15:48	replaca	Chouser: aren't I the one who wants arg metadata?
15:48	cemerick	I was going to say :-) But at the very least, an indication of arity.
15:50	Chousuke	I think a merge-intervals function that takes a variadic number of arguments and implicitly assumes they're start/end pairs would be silly.
15:50	replaca	right, what I imagine is being able to get three things: (1) The discriminator function, (2) the various discriminator values, and (3) the arglists for each func. #2 I can get currently, the others are inaccessible
15:51	replaca	I would, for example like to be able to produce better doc here, for instance: http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/wiki/DuckStreamsApiDoc#reader
15:52	replaca	On Stuart's fabulous reader multimethod
15:53	replaca	I could just read the source, but that breaks down pretty quickly when folks use macros and such
15:53	replaca	and feels very hacky
15:54	cemerick	Chousuke: it was just the first thing I thought of, although we do have a bunch of fns that interpret sets of four numbers as defining rectangles. Doing so makes all of your operations a simple reduce instead of having to cons up tons of intermediate container objs.
15:57	stuhood	~def struct
15:58	Chousuke	cemerick: I guess it's useful sometimes. but in this case, since splitting the stream of numbers into pairs just requires a partition call, I'd leave that up to the caller rather than have some special code for plain integers. It just feels fragile :)
15:59	stuhood	~def c.l.PersistentStructMap
15:59	Chouser	I guess arg metadata on a fn is of the sort that would never change and is thus easier to support.
15:59	Chouser	same for the internal name of the fn
16:00	replaca	Chouser: ? I don't understand
16:00	replaca	Chouser: easier than what?
16:00	Chouser	easier than allowing metadata on fns to change after the fn is defined.
16:01	replaca	Chouser: and how does that relate to multimethods?
16:02	cemerick	stuhood: were those for me? :-) We use PSMs extensively (see my genbean posts from months ago, though our current impl is quite a bit cleaner/advanced since the last time I posted on it).
16:03	Chouser	when you do a defmethod, you provide the function definition along with the arg lists, so they could all be created at once (the easy-to-support case)
16:03	stuhood	cemerick: oh no, sorry. was just wondering how struct was implemented, and now i'm wondering why it doesn't use a class with final members
16:04	cemerick	stuhood: I believe that's where rhickey is planning on going, although it's likely a low-priority item.
16:04	Chouser	contrast that with, say, a docstring on each defmethod, where you could be forgiven for wanting to update the docstring at runtime (hard to support)
16:04	stuhood	cemerick: gotcha: thanks.
16:04	replaca	Chouser: yeah, but the defmthos is aware of the defmulti, so it would be pretty easy to inherit an arglist. Is that what you mean?
16:04	cemerick	I have the impression that it's sort-of low-hanging fruit if one understands the asm stuff well enough (which I don't)
16:05	replaca	*defmethod
16:05	Chouser	replaca: hm, no. I feel like we're talking completely past each other. :-/
16:06	replaca	Chouser: that's what I thought. You're just talking about :doc?
16:06	Chouser	replaca: you're wanting each defmulti to add its arglists and dispatch value to the defmulti's metadata or something?
16:07	replaca	Chouser: I don't care where it puts it, I just want it somewhere!
16:08	replaca	Chouser: the disatch value is alread there (it's the key in the result to (methods)
16:08	replaca	*dispatch
16:10	replaca	Since funcs don't support metadata now, an interesting thing might be to add it as a map on the methods function itself
16:11	replaca	but I don't know how that would mix in the internals
16:45	st3f4n	does clojure have a sorted set?
16:45	stuhood	st3f4n: yes: (sorted-set)
16:45	st3f4n	well, that was obvious :)
16:46	stuhood	,(doc sorted-set)
16:46	clojurebot	"([& keys]); Returns a new sorted set with supplied keys."
16:46	scottj	Is there a function to combine two regexes? str and then re-pattern doesn't work well because somethings in regexes aren't allowed in strings (e.g. \^)
16:47	scottj	oh duh, "\\^". sorry
16:47	st3f4n	is there a way to specify the compare function for the sorted-set ?
16:48	arohner	is anyone aware of a good tool to remove unneeded .class files from a jar? I've successfully created on jar out of a ton of jars, but the file is 70mb and I'm pretty sure I'm not using many of the classes
16:48	stuhood	scottj: yea, or you could use clojure's #"" literal regex syntax (which just makes a java.util.regex.Patten), and combine the .toString of each pattern
16:48	rhickey	st3f4n: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=76
16:49	st3f4n	ah!
16:49	stuhood	,(str (.pattern #"first") (.pattern #"second"))
16:49	clojurebot	"firstsecond"
16:50	stuhood	,(java.util.regex.Pattern. (str (.pattern #"first") (.pattern #"second")))
16:50	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.util.regex.Pattern
16:50	hiredman	arohner: proguard maybe? it gets mentioned a lot in #java but I am not sure what it does
16:50	stuhood	,(java.util.regex.Pattern/compile (str (.pattern #"first") (.pattern #"second")))
16:50	clojurebot	#"firstsecond"
16:51	arohner	hiredman: yeah, I tried that. It dies with Java OOM when I give it all the memory the box has
16:51	hiredman	heh
16:51	hiredman	that could be a problem
16:51	st3f4n	sorry if this is a dumb question, but according to good functional style programming, to add an item to an existing set I have to create a new set based on the old set plus the new item right? isn't that extremely inefficent when the set is somewhat large?
16:52	arohner	st3f4n: yes, but the clojure data structures are clever about re-using as much as possible from the old set
16:52	arohner	the overly simplified version: think of a linked list A->B->C
16:53	arohner	I can make a new list D->A->B->C
16:53	st3f4n	yes but the compare function is not attached to the set, so i assume it has to run every time i add a new item
16:53	st3f4n	instead of just finding the right spot to insert the new item
16:53	arohner	compare function? you mean to determine whether the item is allowed to go in the set?
16:54	st3f4n	sorted set
16:54	hiredman	I have not looked at the patch, but I assume as you add to the sorted set, it keeps the same comparator
16:54	Chouser	,(re-pattern (str #"first" #"second"))
16:54	clojurebot	#"firstsecond"
16:54	hiredman	so you would not need to re-sort
16:54	arohner	you still have to look up the new value's value in the sorted (tree?)
16:54	arohner	so I expect that's O(log n)
16:55	arohner	and I don't think you can avoid that even in a mutable set
16:55	st3f4n	no that is fine
16:55	st3f4n	ah yes i'm reading the patch now
16:56	st3f4n	yeah i keep thinking about cons cells ala lisp, but this is different with a java backend
16:57	st3f4n	i guess i simply need to write some tests to figure out the timing
16:58	st3f4n	is this patch already in trunk or should i apply it?
17:01	st3f4n	oh it does not compile
17:01	hiredman	I imagine it is kind of stale
17:01	st3f4n	like old bread
17:19	cads	how do I print out a list of vars defined in a namespace, along with their doc strings?
17:19	st3f4n	hmm .. not sure what to do .. i need a sorted collection of max 5000 items, to which i frequently insert items and lookup ranges of items
17:19	cads	for example I want to search clojure.contrib.math for a function that does exponents and roots
17:20	kotarak	cads: (require 'clojure.contrib.math) (find-doc "exp")
17:20	kotarak	Just a guess
17:21	kotarak	Maybe (find-doc "clojure.contrib.math") works also. Not tested.
17:22	st3f4n	can (replace smap coll) also be used to remove items from a vector?
17:23	Chouser	cads: (doseq [[n v] (ns-publics 'clojure.set)] (println "==" n "==\n " (:doc ^v)))
17:24	Chouser	st3f4n: no, vectors don't grow/shrink in the middle
17:24	st3f4n	hmm
17:25	Chouser	st3f4n: perhaps a sorted map and subseq?
17:26	st3f4n	i don't think sorted maps support nth
17:26	Chouser	no, but you could use Integers for the keys. that's not what you want?
17:27	st3f4n	what i'm trying to do is create a high score database .. so i need to keep max 5000 score/name pairs, sorted by score
17:27	cads	chouser, ns-publics is great! kotarak, that works too!
17:28	hiredman	how do I get a hold of a resource in a jar file? like a text file
17:28	Chouser	hiredman: in a particular jar file, or in any jar file in your classpath?
17:29	hiredman	the jar file the clojure file is inn
17:29	hiredman	but any particular is fine
17:31	st3f4n	the set-sorted-by would work for me, but the patch is not official yet
17:32	Chouser	,(.getResourceAsStream (clojure.lang.RT/baseLoader) "clojure/main.clj")
17:32	clojurebot	nil
17:32	Chouser	hm. That worked for me.
17:32	lpetit	Hi
17:33	hiredman	hmm
17:34	hiredman	it works in the repl here
17:34	stuhood	sandboxing?
17:34	hiredman	must be
17:34	hiredman	no IO
17:39	hiredman	what is the flag that is set durring compilation?
17:40	hiredman	compile-files
17:40	hiredman	?
17:40	kotarak	hiredman: yes (see gen-class.clj)
17:41	lpetit	hiredman: indicates whether the evaluation must also persist .class files during compilation
17:42	lpetit	hiredman: sorry, misunderstood the question
17:43	hiredman	yay! my app has -v flag now :P
19:19	technomancy	oh nice! wondering if that was the last blocker for 1.0...
19:20	rhickey	technomancy: should be, although I expect it to have fallout of its own, given the new jar names
19:22	technomancy	cool
19:27	durka42	won't that break everybody's clj scripts
19:28	replaca	rhickey: are you still here?
19:28	rhickey	yes
19:29	replaca	rhickey: I was wondering if you saw the discussion on arglists doc for multimethods earlier
19:29	rhickey	replaca: yes
19:30	replaca	This is a problem (though maybe not an urgent one) for the contrib auto-doc robot
19:30	replaca	rhickey: did you have any thoughts on a good approach?
19:32	rhickey	what's wrong with (defmulti #^{:arglists '[() (foo)]} bar type)
19:33	rhickey	user=> (:arglists ^#'bar)
19:33	rhickey	[() (foo)]
19:33	rhickey	user=> (:arglists ^#'rest)
19:33	rhickey	([coll])
19:33	replaca	Ahh, so implementers should mark the defmulti themselves?
19:34	replaca	(or we could add a macro that added it, I suppose)
19:34	rhickey	replaca: they sort of have to, no? I understand some sugar in defmulti would be nice, but not until 1.1
19:34	replaca	Yeah, that's a reasonable approach.
19:34	rhickey	I think docs and arglists should go on the multi, not the methods
19:35	replaca	rhickey: Yeah, I agree with that, but if they're there, they should probably be enforced
19:37	replaca	for the moment, I'll just have the auto-doc say, "no argument data provided" or something if the contributer hasn't put anything on the defmulti
19:37	replaca	rhickey: thanks
19:37	rhickey	replaca: one problem with enforcement is that you could handle 4 args with [a b c d] or [a & bcd]
19:38	rhickey	so the thing on the multi is a minimal spec
19:38	rhickey	not a hard rule
19:39	replaca	rhickey: yeah, I would say that enforcement meant that the sigs matched. (Or better yet, if defmulti had a sig, defmethod didn't)
19:39	replaca	rhickey: you know, DRY
19:39	replaca	rhickey: sounds liek trouble to me :-)
19:40	rhickey	methods shouldn't have sigs
19:41	replaca	rhickey: OK, now I'm with you. That seems like a big breaking change, though
19:41	technomancy	so fns can't have metadata attached to them; right?
19:41	technomancy	I'm working on creating a chain of fns and would like to note which are io-bound (for send-off) vs cpu-bound... wondering what the best way to work around the fn metadata problem would be.
19:42	replaca	technomancy: experimentation shows that to be true :-)
19:42	dnolen	technomancy: proxying Afn is a good workaround
19:42	technomancy	dnolen: what's the A stand for?
19:43	dnolen	AFn the class sorry
19:43	replaca	dnolen: can you put metadata on the proxy then?
19:43	dnolen	yes
19:43	replaca	dnolen: cool, I nver thought of that
19:43	technomancy	dnolen: yeah, I know; what's it mean?
19:44	technomancy	how's it different from Fn?
19:45	lisppaste8	dnolen pasted "proxying AFn" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79319
19:45	dnolen	here's an example from my own code
19:46	dnolen	I take a function, proxy AFn, add metadata and when invoke is called on the proxy, the fn is called.
19:47	technomancy	seems a bit heavy-handed, but it gets the job done I guess.
19:48	stuhood	technomancy: the A stands for abstract
19:48	dnolen	yeah, metadata on fns is coming one day, but this is OK if you really really need it, in my case I absolutely did.
19:48	technomancy	dnolen: thanks. I suspect it'd be cleaner to do it without metadata in my case.
19:51	dnolen	might already be there.
19:52	technomancy	yeah, it is. google code lets you "star" existing issues as a way of saying you care about it
19:52	dnolen	I think rich has this in a decent place on his internal priority list, he's the one that pointed me to the temporary solution :)
19:52	technomancy	speaking of google code, if anyone could review my symbol/keyword name verification patch, I'd be much obliged: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=13
19:53	technomancy	dnolen: good to know. =)
20:00	bradford	question about try-finally form
20:00	bradford	(defn with-hbase [table-name column-families f]
20:00	bradford	(try (create-hbase-table table-name column-families)
20:00	bradford	(def result (f))
20:00	bradford	(finally (disable-table table-name) (drop-hbase-table table-name) result)))
20:01	bradford	If I want to get the result of evaluating the function while the resource (hbase) is up, and then return the result of evaluating the function from this function...
20:02	bradford	then what is the best way for me to capture the result the comes from evaluating the function f within the try
20:02	replaca	bradford: so what's the "def" about there?
20:02	bradford	well its not valid of course :-) ... iw as jsut playing with different let bindings and such to try to get the resilt in scope
20:03	replaca	bradford: I believe that the try should return the last result before the finally
20:03	replaca	,(doc try)
20:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: try in this context
20:03	replaca	oh, it's a special form
20:04	replaca	,(try 1 (finally 2))
20:04	clojurebot	replaca: I don't understand.
20:04	replaca	huh, works in my repl
20:05	replaca	so that form there returns 1 as it's result
20:05	technomancy	bradford: the finally clause doesn't affect the return value
20:05	replaca	despite the fact clojurebot doesn't know it
20:05	bradford	,(try 2 (finally 3))
20:05	clojurebot	bradford: Gabh mo leithsc�al?
20:05	bradford	yes, it works in my repl too
20:05	replaca	the ways of clojurebot are known only to hiredman
20:06	replaca	bradford: does that answer your Q?
20:06	technomancy	replaca: and presumably to those who hired him
20:06	bradford	ah, ok, i found my issue
20:06	replaca	technomancy: :-)
20:08	bradford	ok, this works:
20:08	bradford	(defn with-hbase [table-name column-families f]
20:08	bradford	(try (create-hbase-table table-name column-families)
20:08	bradford	(f)
20:08	bradford	(finally (disable-table table-name) (drop-hbase-table table-name))))
20:08	bradford	and the client code for writings hbase tests looks liek this:
20:09	bradford	(deftest hbase-expr
20:09	bradford	(with-hbase "biz" "bar:"
20:09	bradford	#(is (table-exists? "biz"))))
20:09	bradford	but you can see I have to delay the evaluation of the is form when passing it to the higher order with-hbase function...so is this telling me that with-hbase should be a macro rather than a function?
20:11	replaca	bradford: this might be a good place for a macro
20:11	replaca	hang on a sec and I'll point you at something
20:12	bradford	I initially made this a macro around the entire deftest and also had a weird implimentation that is now greatly cleaned up with teh try-finally form
20:12	bradford	(defmacro def-hbase-test [name table-name column-families test]
20:12	bradford	`(deftest ~name
20:12	bradford	(let [bloh# (create-hbase-table ~table-name ~column-families)
20:12	bradford	result# ~test
20:12	bradford	bleh# (disable-table ~table-name) blek# (drop-hbase-table ~table-name)] result#)))
20:13	bradford	but that was clearly not a good idea :-)
20:13	hiredman	~google clojure tokyo
20:13	clojurebot	First, out of 1580 results is:
20:13	clojurebot	Caffeinated Simpleton � Blog Archive � Fifth: Static Storage and ...
20:13	clojurebot	http://justin.harmonize.fm/index.php/2009/03/fifth-static-storage-and-tokyo-cabinet/
20:14	replaca	bradford: but you could use that macros structure for tests, if you want
20:14	replaca	I do something similar here: http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/source/browse/trunk/src/clojure/contrib/test_contrib/pprint/helper.clj#19
20:15	bradford	yes, the new macro will be much better...it jsut wraps that try-finally form in a with form - it doesn't need to wrapp the entire deftest in a macro...on the is form
20:15	replaca	or you could make the macro be inside the test and just have a "& body" for the body of the macro
20:22	gnuvince_	Good evening
20:23	bradford	replaca: thanks, i got it now
20:23	bradford	the macro solution looks nice
20:32	replaca	bradford: great!
20:51	st3f4n	is there a 'call this function n times and collect the results as a list' ?
20:53	Cark	your problem statement is a bit short
20:53	Cark	what would be the parameters of your function ?
20:54	Cark	for instance map would do that
20:54	st3f4n	like to build an list of n random numbers
20:55	dliebke	,(doc repeatedly)
20:55	clojurebot	"([f]); Takes a function of no args, presumably with side effects, and returns an infinite lazy sequence of calls to it"
20:55	dnolen	a list comprehension would work as well
20:55	st3f4n	ah!
20:55	dnolen	,(doc for)
20:55	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost fastest, and nested coll-exprs can refer to bindings created in prior binding-forms. Supported modifiers are: :let [binding-form expr ...], :while test, :when test.
20:55	durka42	,(take 5 (repeatedly rand))
20:55	clojurebot	(0.6485221618543977 0.401715904441031 0.3184120360134589 0.21260817161311518 0.5062688341938172)
20:55	st3f4n	yes this is good :-)
20:57	ciaran	is rand said to have side-effects?
20:58	Cark	yes
20:58	dliebke	yes, since the value it returns is different each time
20:58	hiredman	erm
20:58	hiredman	I would say it isn't a function
20:58	hiredman	dunno about saying it has side-effects
20:58	Cark	there is state behind the scene, the side effect is that this state is modified on each invocation
20:58	bradford	,(for [x (range 10)] rand)
20:58	clojurebot	(#<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__4553 clojure.core$rand__4553@1aaf84c> #<core$rand__455
20:59	st3f4n	heh
20:59	Cark	,(for [x (range 10)] (rand))
20:59	clojurebot	(0.9672556948667086 0.25158497043868533 0.33681956743322305 0.1738481107372174 0.4976804747050422 0.02733982062402951 0.6016067433768929 0.6258270580974905 0.09267327584099161 0.8219117044789643)
21:00	ciaran	Cark: but isn't that an implementation detail? And if there was no such state, but it still returned a different value each time (somehow), would it still be said to have side-effects?
21:00	hiredman	if you memoize a function, does it have side-effects?
21:00	Cark	it couldn't return a different value each time if there was no state
21:00	Cark	a pure function always returns the same result for the same parameters
21:01	ciaran	hm, would a function that returned the current time be said to have side-effects?
21:01	Cark	hiredman : memoization is a gray area ...how about lazy seqs ?
21:01	Cark	ciaran : yes
21:01	ciaran	as it returns a different value (potentially) but doesn't _alter_ any state
21:01	Cark	it returns the state of the world, which is always changing
21:02	ciaran	so a function is said to have side-effects if it relies on state, not if it changes some state
21:02	Cark	not really, it's more if it changes state as you said ...
21:02	ciaran	but a function which returns the current time does not change any state, it just reads it :/
21:03	Cark	for a time function we'd say this function is not pure
21:03	Cark	the end result is the same, there are many things you cannot do with such a function
21:03	Cark	you cannot cache it
21:04	ciaran	well I am really just wondering about the definition of the term side-effects, a function returning the time was just an example
21:05	Cark	in the clojure doc, there are many places where it is said you shouldn't use a side-effecting function
21:05	Cark	in some places a time returning function would do, in some other it wouldn't
21:05	hiredman	I have used functions with side-effects in about all of them :P
21:06	Cark	booo
21:14	chessguy	howdy ya'all
21:16	st3f4n	oh nested #()s are not allowed
21:19	st3f4n	i'm allowed to do many things inside an (alter ...) right? the examples only do simple things, but i can pass it an anonymous fn and for example modify my list and then sort it
21:20	Cark	yes
21:26	st3f4n	hm cool
21:31	st3f4n	hm nasty .. (conj ..) on () vs []
21:33	hiredman	,(doc conj)
21:33	clojurebot	"([coll x] [coll x & xs]); conj[oin]. Returns a new collection with the xs 'added'. (conj nil item) returns (item). The 'addition' may happen at different 'places' depending on the concrete type."
21:35	st3f4n	there is no such thing as defconst in clojure right?
21:37	cipher	,(doc #())
21:37	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Cons cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
21:38	cipher	,(doc ->)
21:38	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
21:50	st3f4n	what is the clojure equivalent of this in java: for (String s : stringVector) { println(s); } ?
21:50	danlarkin_	(doseq [s string-vector] (println s))
21:51	st3f4n	ahhh doseq
21:51	st3f4n	yes :-)
22:06	st3f4n	ha. 925 requests per second for my 'high score json web service'
22:06	st3f4n	on an old imac
22:06	st3f4n	i like the jvm :-)
22:07	st3f4n	actually 1600 reqs/sec
22:07	danlarkin_	depends on what you're doing to produce that json...
22:11	arohner	if I want to get a resource out of a jar file of clojure code, what class do I use for .getResourceAsStream?
22:23	Chouser	(.getResourceAsStream (clojure.lang.RT/baseLoader) "clojure/main.clj")
22:28	st3f4n	well i'm pretty happy with my results for a couple of hours hacking code
22:31	gnuvince_	,(let [v [1 2 3 4]] (time (dotimes [_ 1e7] (first v))))
22:31	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 2117.945 msecs"
22:34	arohner	Chouser: thanks
22:34	chessguy	gnuvince what's _?
22:35	chessguy	oh i see
22:36	gnuvince_	chessguy: just a convention to say "I won't use this binding"
22:42	chessguy	gotcha
22:42	chessguy	yeah there's something similar in haskell
23:54	unlink1	Does a stdlib function like this exist? (defn domap [f coll] (doseq [x coll] (f x)))
23:54	unlink1	A side-effective map which doesn't return its results or hang onto a reference to its head
23:55	unlink1	s/side-effective/eager/
23:55	hiredman	,(do dorun)
23:55	clojurebot	#<core$dorun__3993 clojure.core$dorun__3993@ef0a03>
23:55	hiredman	,(doc dorun)
23:55	clojurebot	"([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. dorun can be used to force any effects. Walks through the successive nexts of the seq, does not retain the head and returns nil."
23:56	unlink1	That's it except for the function application part.
23:57	hiredman	,(dorun (map print (range 10)))
23:57	clojurebot	0123456789
23:57	unlink1	So I guess domap = (dorun (map f coll))
23:58	unlink1	How do I compose print with another function?
23:59	hiredman	same way you compose any function
23:59	hiredman	doto is very handy for printing
23:59	hiredman	,(doc doto)
23:59	clojurebot	"([x & forms]); Evaluates x then calls all of the methods and functions with the value of x supplied at the from of the given arguments. The forms are evaluated in order. Returns x. (doto (new java.util.HashMap) (.put \"a\" 1) (.put \"b\" 2))"
23:59	hiredman	,(doto 1 prn)
23:59	clojurebot	1
23:59	clojurebot	1