#clojure – 2009-02-25

2009-02-25

01:25	durka42	...is clojurebot self-aware now?
01:25	hiredman	so every hour it sends tweets since the last hour about clojure (limit 3)
01:26	hiredman	in theory it does that
01:26	durka42	ah
01:26	hiredman	we will see in an hour
01:31	durka42	are tweets tagged? or do you just grep on "clojure"?
01:31	hiredman	http://search.twitter.com/search?q=clojure
01:32	durka42	cool
01:33	hiredman	I pushed with the tweet plugin
01:33	hiredman	I mean, source of the tweet plugin is pushed
01:34	durka42	is if-let what lispers refer to as anaphoric if?
01:38	hiredman	looks similar (as far I as I can tell)
01:43	hiredman	that has occured to me
01:44	durka42	it could just be elapsed time since last message
01:44	durka42	clojurebot reads every message anyway looking for , or ~
01:45	hiredman	yes
01:50	durka42	(Thread/sleep)
02:23	__marius__	so i have a strange error - if i launch slime (both slime an dclojure are completely up to date), i get java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: swank.swank (NO_SOURCE_FILE:9) after trying to start the swank serer
02:23	__marius__	however
02:23	__marius__	if i recompile clojure, it works
02:23	__marius__	but only once...
02:29	hiredman	is swank up-to-date?
02:31	__marius__	yep.
02:32	adakkak	,(.split "this" "h")
02:32	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1a05bdb>
02:32	adakkak	how do go from String[] to a clojure type?
02:38	cmvkk	,(seq (.split "this" "h"))
02:38	clojurebot	("t" "is")
02:40	adakkak	thanks
02:44	hiredman	,(vec (.split "this" "h"))
02:44	clojurebot	["t" "is"]
02:44	hiredman	ooh
02:51	adakkak	,(isa? \a ::char)
02:51	clojurebot	false
02:52	hiredman	correct
02:52	hiredman	(doc isa?)
02:52	clojurebot	Returns true if (= child parent), or child is directly or indirectly derived from parent, either via a Java type inheritance relationship or a relationship established via derive. h must be a hierarchy obtained from make-hierarchy, if not supplied defaults to the global hierarchy; arglists ([child parent] [h child parent])
02:52	jochu	__marius__: Bah, swank-clojure compiling must be broken. You can turn it off by (setq swank-clojure-compile-p nil). If it ends up being a recurring issue, I'll have it turned off on default. In the mean time, I'm curious - are there compiled class files in your ~/.slime/cljclass/ directory?
02:52	hiredman	,(isa? \a Character)
02:52	clojurebot	false
02:52	adakkak	is there a clojure name for java.lang.char ? like ::a-collection
02:52	hiredman	,(isa? \a Character/TYPE)
02:52	clojurebot	false
02:53	hiredman	,(isa? (Character. \a) Character)
02:53	clojurebot	false
02:53	hiredman	oh
02:53	hiredman	duh
02:53	hiredman	,(isa? Character Object)
02:53	clojurebot	true
02:54	hiredman	isa? is for inheritence, not determining types
02:54	hiredman	(instance? \a Character)
02:54	hiredman	,(instance? \a Character)
02:54	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Class
02:54	hiredman	,(instance? Character \a)
02:54	clojurebot	true
02:54	cmvkk	instance? is backwards from isa?
02:54	cmvkk	oh wait that makes sense.
02:56	__marius__	jochu: thanks, i'll try that
02:56	__marius__	jochu: yep
02:56	__marius__	jochu: (re: compiled classes there)
03:02	jochu	__marius__: Boo, so does turning off compilation or deleting the directory fix it? (deleting would be a one time fix)
03:36	adakkak	is there a reason why the following would not work: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76135
03:36	adakkak	in particular the defmulti part
03:37	hiredman	where is the exception?
03:37	hiredman	well
03:37	hiredman	there are a few things
03:37	hiredman	but I am not going to say until you paste the exception
03:42	adakkak	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: split for class java.lang.Character (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
03:43	adakkak	actually : java.lang.ClassCastException: Cannot cast java.lang.Character to java.lang.String (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0
03:44	hiredman	well
03:45	hiredman	~jdoc Character
03:45	hiredman	as you can see Character does not have a .split
03:46	hiredman	also, generally you don't deal with Characters you deal with chars which are a primitive type and have no methods
03:46	hiredman	and you method with ::collection will never be used because (class ...) will never return ::collection
03:47	hiredman	and the syntax of defmulti has changed
03:47	cmvkk	,(.split "baha" \h)
03:47	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.String
03:48	cmvkk	,(.split "baha" (str \h))
03:48	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@19a6087>
03:48	hiredman	and?
03:48	adakkak	,(instance? \a ::chars)
03:48	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Class
03:48	hiredman	adakkak: ::chars is not a type
03:48	hiredman	::chars is a keyword
03:49	hiredman	,(instace? Character \a)
03:49	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: instace? in this context
03:49	adakkak	I though you said there was a type called chars
03:49	hiredman	,(instance? Character \a)
03:49	clojurebot	true
03:49	adakkak	an I should be using it
03:49	hiredman	there is a primitive type called char
03:49	hiredman	no, you shouldn't
03:49	hiredman	:foo is a keyword
03:49	hiredman	not a type
03:50	hiredman	::collection is not a type, but java.util.Collection is
03:51	hiredman	::collection is a keyword
03:51	adakkak	ahh.. http://clojure.org/multimethods confused me ; you said that the syntax for defmulti has changed. is there a documentation for that.
03:51	hiredman	,(doc defmulti)
03:51	clojurebot	"([name docstring? attr-map? dispatch-fn & options]); Creates a new multimethod with the associated dispatch function. The docstring and attribute-map are optional. Options are key-value pairs and may be one of: :default the default dispatch value, defaults to :default :hierarchy the isa? hierarchy to use for dispatching defaults to the global hierarchy"
03:52	hiredman	actually, that will still work
03:52	adakkak	any examples of its use?
03:52	cmvkk	yours is still right, i think.
03:53	hiredman	,(class [])
03:53	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector
03:53	hiredman	,(class "foo")
03:53	clojurebot	java.lang.String
03:53	hiredman	,(class \a)
03:53	clojurebot	java.lang.Character
03:53	cmvkk	,(class '(1 2))
03:53	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
03:53	hiredman	these are the things your dispatch fn will be returning
03:55	hiredman	what are you even trying to do?
03:55	adakkak	I am trying to split a string based on a few seperators without using regex
03:56	cmvkk	you want the function to take either a char or a list of chars.
03:56	cmvkk	maybe try using (seq? x) for dispatch then methods for true and false?
03:56	hiredman	just use mapcat
03:57	hiredman	,(.split "a\|b;c'd" "\|")
03:57	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1b7a553>
03:57	hiredman	,(mapcat #(.split % ";") (.split "a\|b;c'd" "\|"))
03:57	clojurebot	("" "a" "\|" "b" "c" "'" "d")
03:58	hiredman	odd
03:58	cmvkk	,(seq (.split "a\|b;c'd" "\|"))
03:58	clojurebot	("" "a" "\|" "b" ";" "c" "'" "d")
03:58	hiredman	,(.split "a\|b;c'd" "\\|")
03:58	clojurebot	Unsupported escape character: \\|
03:59	hiredman	,(.split "a\|b;c'd" "\\\|")
03:59	clojurebot	#<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@1335207>
03:59	hiredman	,(seq (.split "a\|b;c'd" "\\\|"))
03:59	clojurebot	("a" "b;c'd")
03:59	cmvkk	weird escape stuff? that's weird.
03:59	hiredman	not really
03:59	hiredman	split uses its arg as a regex
03:59	hiredman	so you need to escape \|
04:00	cmvkk	,(seq (mapcat #(.split % "y") (.split "axbyc" "x")))
04:00	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
04:00	hiredman	and \ needs to be escaped in strings because \ is used for character literals
04:00	hiredman	so you need \\
04:02	adakkak	thanks, that is what I was looking for
04:03	hiredman	(really you should just use a regex)
04:04	hiredman	,(seq (.split "axbyc" "x\|y"))
04:04	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
04:06	hiredman	,(seq (.split "axbyc" (apply str (interpose "\|" "xy"))))
04:06	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
04:12	adakkak	I should be using it with regex, but part of thing I am doing requires one not to use regex
04:36	Lau_of_DK	Morning all
04:48	cgrand	Hi Lau_of_DK!
04:57	niet	is clojure ore for concurrency thatn distributed systems?
04:57	niet	more
04:58	AWizzArd	kotarak: hoi
05:00	hiredman	niet: yes
05:01	hiredman	although I think I recall rhickey mentioning something about amq
05:02	hiredman	but presnetly there isn't a "blessed" distributed mechanism
05:38	AWizzArd	hiredman: is that thine blog?
05:39	hiredman	eh?
05:39	hiredman	clojurebot tracks twitter now
05:40	hiredman	so, No, that is not my blog
05:42	Lau_of_DK	descent article
05:45	lisppaste8	Bracki pasted "What's wrong with the dispatch fn?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76137
05:46	Bracki	Can the dispatch fn for a multimethod be any kind of function?
05:48	Bracki	I get an NPE when calling the defmethods but I have no clue why and where.
05:49	Lau_of_DK	Missing a \space after keyword?
05:50	Lau_of_DK	And are you sure what re-find will return for your call ?
05:52	Bracki	Yes but no, I forgot to put a + after [A-Z].
05:52	Bracki	thx.
05:53	Lau_of_DK	Yea, maybe it'd be easier with something like this
05:53	Lau_of_DK	user> (re-find #"\b([^\/]\w+)(\s.*)+" "/part #clojure")
05:53	Lau_of_DK	["part #clojure" "part" " #clojure"]
05:53	Lau_of_DK	?
05:55	Bracki	Lau_of_DK: But IRC clients transform "/nick Bracki" to "NICK Bracki".
05:56	Lau_of_DK	oh
05:56	Lau_of_DK	user> (re-seq #"\b([^\/]\w+)(\s.*)+" "PART #clojure")
05:56	Lau_of_DK	(["PART #clojure" "PART" " #clojure"])
05:56	Lau_of_DK
05:56	Lau_of_DK	So thats better?
05:57	Bracki	,(re-find #"^[A-Z]+\b" "PART #clojure")
05:57	clojurebot	"PART"
05:57	Bracki	is sufficient for me.
05:58	Bracki	,(doc re-seq)
05:58	clojurebot	"([re s]); Returns a lazy sequence of successive matches of pattern in string, using java.util.regex.Matcher.find(), each such match processed with re-groups."
05:58	Lau_of_DK	k
06:33	AWizzArd	yeah great, news spam :)
06:34	cemerick	wow, lots of heat coming from the CL world these days
06:54	AWizzArd	yup
06:54	AWizzArd	they are scared
06:55	AWizzArd	they are happy because they have fset and some basic implementation of a STM
06:55	cemerick	I doubt they're scared -- I don't think the CL world can lose any more relevance than it already has.
06:55	cemerick	I suppose a big vendor disappearing would be another notch down...
06:58	AWizzArd	And I hope that won't happen too soon.
06:58	AWizzArd	But well, evolution is in progress, so, anything can happen.
06:58	AWizzArd	survival of the ...
06:59	AWizzArd	In fact, we can congratulate them. They were able to survive way longer than most others.
07:02	cemerick	I suppose.
07:03	cemerick	I've had enough bad experiences with the community that I can't easily work myself up to be congratulatory.
07:05	AWizzArd	although:
07:05	AWizzArd	,(= 'community 'vendors)
07:05	clojurebot	false
07:06	AWizzArd	And btw, I am also one of those CL guys ;)
07:06	AWizzArd	At least that's what I've been doing in the past 6 years.
07:06	AWizzArd	But for me the age of Clojure began.
07:09	cemerick	Well, I've seen some serious venom poured forth by people with emails from some of those vendors' domains, but yeah, point taken.
07:11	cemerick	There's thousands of perfectly peaceful CL programmers tending their own gardens, but those that throw stones in very public forums (perhaps only in those public, at-arms-length forums) end up defining the public profile of the community as a whole.
07:12	Lau_of_DK	cemerick: Pride goes before a fall :)
07:13	cemerick	AWizzArd: BTW, I was tinkering with javafx over the weekend -- it's a pretty pleasant environment. Not clojure, obviously, but it actually has a lot of primitives that make building UIs a lot easier. It might make a really good front end to some clojure libs that contain the real workings of an app. Are you still plowing ahead in netbeans/swing?
07:13	Lau_of_DK	cemerick: You're driving fx from clojure?
07:15	cemerick	Lau_of_DK: not really -- but fx can call into clojure as readily as any other java lib. I only brought it up because it's actually looking like it has serious potential to be better than swing (as we've known it).
07:16	Lau_of_DK	Ok cool - I had a look at it a while ago, but didnt use it (primarily because I was investing my time in QtJambi)
07:16	cemerick	...and I know AWizzArd was looking for UI solutions -- driving a UI with clojure is appealing, but if the javafx guys do well, the "right tool for the job" rule might override any impulse to do everything with our favorite language.
07:16	rhickey	cemerick: I wonder how much of fx goodness is in libs we can drive from Clojure
07:17	rhickey	I know a lot of it is
07:17	cemerick	I was pretty disappointed to see jambi dropped so quickly -- that could have had real potential in some usages
07:17	Lau_of_DK	cemerick: Im still on Jambi - I use it for my GitDoc project
07:17	Lau_of_DK	I just paralized it with CQL and a 3D game :)
07:18	cemerick	rhickey: I'm not entirely clear on it all, but from interviews I've listened to (I'm a podcast junkie), the plan is to start opening up the object model for any jvm language later this year.
07:19	cemerick	early releases had the object model very tied up with specifics of javafx script, which is no longer true. I'll bet you can drive the scenegraph and such using any language today, but they just haven't publicly documented the API and such yet.
07:20	cemerick	rhickey: good show on c.l.l, BTW. It was a valiant effort. :-)
07:21	cemerick	Lau_of_DK: the project has already been open-sourced, so it could be maintained. Being 'unendorsed' is a big blow, though -- it'll probably lag the core libs forever.
07:26	AWizzArd	cemerick: yes, I am doing netbeans/swing, but would be highly interested in JavaFX. The quesion is though: can one use all FX libs from Clojure?
07:26	AWizzArd	I would want to use it without writing a line (well, 1% of the overall project) in JavaFX
07:26	Lau_of_DK	cemerick: which project has been open-sourced, fx? And which valiant effort, on which c.l.l ?
07:27	AWizzArd	my NetBeans+Clojure approach works by clicking until I have the gui, and then I write one export function in Java. This just returns an Object[] in which all the components sit which I want to touch in Clojure.
07:27	cemerick	rhickey: Did you happen to see my post yesterday on the reader oddness in #= forms? http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/34e4d47fc5144512 I need to start serializing certain object graphs (excuse my likely wrong terminology), and these things are hanging me up.
07:27	AWizzArd	In Clojure then I have a (def my-frame (MyNetBeansStuff.)) and (def my-components (.getComponents my-frame))
07:27	cemerick	maybe I'm just missing something fundamental...
07:28	AWizzArd	Now I can happily add event handlers, change texts, etc.
07:28	cemerick	AWizzArd: ostensibly, yes, and using them from any jvm language is promised for later this year
07:28	cemerick	Lau_of_DK: I was referring to jambi and comp.lang.lisp, respectively.
07:28	AWizzArd	well, I would love to have something better than Swing. Swing is nice but could be way nicer.
07:29	AWizzArd	One solution that could work for FX and maybe also frameworks such as RIFE: writing lots of code in Clojure, and in Java then call it.
07:30	cemerick	AWizzArd: using fx-script may just be a perfectly reasonable thing to do -- it has a lot of very nice primitives for binding state, timers, etc etc that would likely require some/a lot of work in any other language.
07:30	rhickey	user usage of #= is not yet supported - it is not full eval
07:30	AWizzArd	My experience with Rife so far was, that it can't handle the .class files generated by Clojure.
07:30	AWizzArd	cemerick: okay sure, if it is just abount handling boring GUI work it may be fine. The application logic however can and should still be 99% Clojure.
07:31	cemerick	rhickey: OK, I wasn't clear on that. Is that going to change anytime soon, or should we just create normal fns to be used in #= forms (find-enum, make-char-array, etc)?
07:32	cemerick	AWizzArd: Right, right. I think the plan is to make it reasonably easy for other languages to create "binding sites" that can be readily tapped by fx-script-driven UIs.
07:36	Lau_of_DK	cemerick: thats news to be regarding Jambi... and bad news :(
07:37	cemerick	Lau_of_DK: oh, you hadn't heard? http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/news/preview-of-final-qt-jambi-release-available
07:37	AWizzArd	And if we can get our fingers on JavaFX then sooner or later there maybe a ClojureFX lib which will offer all the nice things from JavaFX, so that we can drive a 100% Clojure solution.
07:38	cemerick	AWizzArd: that last 5 or 1% will kill you -- and probably result in zero real benefit (IMO).
07:39	rhickey	cemerick: I guess you'll have to do that, but note it is still not full eval - all args must be readable constants
07:40	cemerick	rhickey: ah, OK. That criteria clarifies the class cast in the second example.
07:41	rhickey	cemerick: #= is subject to change
07:41	cemerick	rhickey: I think we're used to that ;-)
07:42	rhickey	:(
07:42	cemerick	there's not really any other reasonable option, though. bean serialization is really painful, especially for arrays and such.
07:43	rhickey	cemerick: ah, well I'm glad you agree about that, too bad though
07:43	cemerick	rhickey: oh, no worries. Sometimes that's the price one must pay to use the good stuff. I do feel bad for Stuart, though.
07:43	AWizzArd	cemerick: have you combined a JavaFX (toy-)app in any way with Clojure so far?
07:43	cemerick	AWizzArd: No -- I just played with it for the first time this weekend (as the demos now run reasonably, so I figured I was duty-bound to check it out).
07:44	AWizzArd	maybe you can find the time to call a clojure function wich returns "Hello JavaFX" and display that? ;)
07:44	rhickey	cemerick: I pushed on lazy just for Stuart, since I knew it would be breaking. There hasn't been any breaking other than that since AOT
07:45	cemerick	rhickey: Yeah -- it only feels worse for me because we didn't port to post-AOT until a couple weeks ago :-D
07:45	rhickey	ah
07:46	cemerick	we're probably going to come up to date with the lazy stuff, and then fall behind for another cycle.
07:47	cemerick	...or maybe we'll try to track things in real time, and be adventurous.
07:47	cemerick	AWizzArd: yeah, maybe this coming weekend
07:48	cemerick	it shouldn't be hard -- fx script can call any java lib. The real trick is enabling jvm languages to expose fx script "native" structures, I think.
07:48	cemerick	s/is/will be
07:49	AWizzArd	would be nice, yes
07:58	AWizzArd	wb kotarak
08:00	clojurebot	svn rev 1306; made line-seq fully lazy
08:11	Lau_of_DK	This question might be spawned out of a lack of coffee, but here goes
08:11	Lau_of_DK	user> (defn myAdd [ x y ] (+ x y))
08:11	Lau_of_DK	#'user/myAdd
08:11	Lau_of_DK	user> (myAdd (map #(* 2 %) [ 1 2 ]))
08:11	Lau_of_DK	; Evaluation aborted.
08:11	Lau_of_DK
08:12	Lau_of_DK	Is there anyway that I can make this possible? Because I have scenarios where I would like to use map as a type-caster/value-modifier, before the result should be passed to a javafunc which expects a certain number of arguments...?
08:13	gnuvince	(hi "everyone")
08:13	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: use apply
08:15	Chousuke	,(apply (fn [x y] (+ x y)) (map #(* 2 %) [1 2]))
08:15	clojurebot	6
08:15	Chousuke	,(apply (fn [x y] (Math/pow x y)) (map #(* 2 %) [1 2]))
08:15	clojurebot	16.0
08:16	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: and just as an aside, the spaces after [ and before ] look ugly :)
08:16	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: Thank you for the first part of your input :)
08:17	Chousuke	I've seen some people use (defn foo[x y]) which I don't like either :/
08:17	Chousuke	it makes the argument vector look like special syntax
08:17	Lau_of_DK	Hang on, while I fetch my little violin :)
08:19	cemerick	I love the smell of snark in the morning.
08:22	Lau_of_DK	"The Snark is the fictional monster that Lewis Carroll created in his nonsense poem The Hunting of the Snark. His descriptions of the creature were, in his own words, unimaginable, and he wanted that to remain so."
08:22	Lau_of_DK	"Snark is a 1974 text-based computer game for BASIC designed by People's Computer Company in which one must "net" the "snark," a point on a 10x10 ..."
08:23	cemerick	ooh, I didn't realize -clojurebot was watching twitter!
08:25	cemerick	rhickey: is there any reason why EvalReader couldn't simply pass the read object to Compiler.eval? Or am I turning over stones that are going to get bulldozed to make way for a subdivision?
08:29	AWizzArd	cemerick: duh, another such a Swing incompetency: I can't simply add new Elements to a JList. First I need to put in a new Modell and do 300 extra calls and create objects.
08:31	cemerick	AWizzArd: nah, just ((DefaultListModel)jlist.getModel()).add(0, "my new item's name")
08:31	cemerick	simpler in clojure with reflection, of course
08:32	cemerick	and you can add any object -- its .toString will be used to generate the label
08:33	cemerick	JLists always start with a DefaultListModel, JTables always start with a DefaultTableModel, etc., so it's safe to assume their base functionality
08:38	AWizzArd	,(class (.getModel (javax.swing.JList.)))
08:38	clojurebot	javax.swing.JList$3
08:38	AWizzArd	,(cast (.getModel (javax.swing.JList.)) 'javax.swing.DefaultListModel)
08:38	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: javax.swing.JList$3 cannot be cast to java.lang.Class
08:39	AWizzArd	,(cast (.getModel (javax.swing.JList.)) javax.swing.DefaultListModel)
08:39	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: javax.swing.JList$3 cannot be cast to java.lang.Class
08:40	AWizzArd	,(.add (.getModel (javax.swing.JList.)) 0 "Hallo")
08:40	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: add for class javax.swing.JList$3
08:40	cemerick	oh no, I think I just dished out a steaming pile, instead of advice! :-(
08:42	cemerick	AWizzArd: JList is the exception -- JTable does use DefaultTableModel, JComboBox uses DefaultComboBoxModel, etc.
08:42	AWizzArd	things like this maybe improved in JavaFX?
08:44	cemerick	AWizzArd: you mean common things made easy? One can only hope. I honestly didn't get that far -- was looking more at the binding and widget layout mechanisms.
08:44	AWizzArd	In Swing there is even not a center method for JFrames. As if people were not interested to center their windows from time to time.
08:44	cemerick	there's always....
08:45	cemerick	,(.add (.getModel (javax.swing.JList. (javax.swing.DefaultListModel.))) 0 "fooey")
08:45	clojurebot	nil
08:45	AWizzArd	cemerick: yes, it is just that I already created the JList in NetBeans and placed it at the right position.
08:45	AWizzArd	Maybe in NetBeans I can make it so that the JList will be created with a DefaultListModel
08:46	cemerick	AWizzArd: See Window.setLocationRelativeTo(Component)
08:46	cemerick	yeah, you can do that
08:46	cemerick	model is just another bean "property"
08:49	AWizzArd	What I did is: right-clicked the JList, selected "Customize Code" and made the new JList() ==> new JList(new DefaultListModel())
08:49	cemerick	yeah, that'll work
08:52	heanol	is lazy-seq supposed to be commented out in core.clj? i'm trying to run swank-clojure and it seems to use it..
08:52	rhickey	heanol: you've got mismatched versions
08:53	heanol	well i got trunk/head of both, i think
08:54	heanol	which one of them is too new? :-)
08:54	cemerick	AWizzArd: the more idiomatic way would be to hang the 'new DefaultListModel()' code off of the widget's model property
08:55	AWizzArd	cemerick: yes, but this would add one more line cof code ;)
09:04	heanol	to answer my own question, jumping back to commit 581954d1fc0cb115a87233426bae5d53455eb4bb for swank-clojure made it work.. was before it started using lazy-seq
09:17	AWizzArd	,(isa? 25 Integer)
09:17	clojurebot	false
09:17	AWizzArd	,(class 25)
09:17	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
09:17	AWizzArd	how should isa? be used?
09:17	danlarkin	with clojure hierarchies
09:23	rhickey	AWizzArd: isa? isn't instance?
09:24	AWizzArd	thx
09:24	rhickey	but it can be used with Java classes too
09:24	rhickey	,(isa? String Object)
09:24	clojurebot	true
09:24	AWizzArd	instance? works for me, thanks
09:25	Lau_of_DK	hiredman: Why does clojurebot repeat the same news ?
09:26	AWizzArd	Lau_of_DK: it posted this link now at least 3x
09:27	AWizzArd	Is there an easier way to extract values out of a hashmap for a vector of specific keys? Easier than (map #(apply % %2) [:a :b :c] some-map)
09:27	gnuvince	select-keys?
09:28	AWizzArd	good
09:28	gnuvince	,(select-keys {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3} [:a :c])
09:28	clojurebot	{:c 3, :a 1}
09:28	AWizzArd	btw, the #(apply % %2) should be just apply
09:28	gnuvince	,(vals (select-keys {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3} [:a :c]))
09:28	clojurebot	(3 1)
09:28	gnuvince	tadam
09:28	AWizzArd	,(map apply [:a :c] {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3})
09:28	clojurebot	(1 2)
09:29	gnuvince	fail
09:29	AWizzArd	sure, of course
09:29	AWizzArd	select-keys is good, thanks
09:29	gnuvince	Np
09:30	cemerick	Lau_of_DK: -clojurebot is monitoring twitter, so dupes are likely
09:34	Lau_of_DK	Then I'd like to suggest (remove-duplets (monitor-twitter))
09:35	cemerick	that'd get dicey with the diversity of url-shortening services out there
09:39	Lau_of_DK	then I'd like to suggeste (filter . (monitor-twitter)) ? :)
09:39	cooldude127	is wanting to write a better java mode for emacs a completely crazy idea?
09:40	Bracki	Are structs ordered? Can I rely on their keys being in order as defined?
09:40	Bracki	cooldude127: Yes, use Vim.
09:40	Lau_of_DK	haha
09:40	Lau_of_DK	"use Vim" - Bracki you know this is 1981 anymore right?
09:40	Lau_of_DK	man that was fun...
09:41	rhickey	Bracki: yes, see: http://clojure.org/data_structures - "A struct map will retain its base keys in order."
09:41	cooldude127	Bracki: i should clarify that i have no real beefs with emacs' java syntax highlighting or anything like that, it's just that actually coding java requires a little more help, like some better project management
09:42	cooldude127	and JDEE is a big box of FAIL
09:42	Bracki	Well, IntelliJ IDEA is nice.
09:42	cooldude127	i've used all the IDEs, i find myself dissatisfied
09:43	cooldude127	idea is the least awful
09:43	cooldude127	lol
09:43	cemerick	you could spend a lifetime building a good java toolchain in emacs
09:43	jbondeson	Raynes: D= whyyyyyy?
09:43	cooldude127	cemerick: well it doesn't have to do everything, just needs to fill in the gaps that keep me using eclipse
09:43	cemerick	best to live with the 90% that NetBeans or IDEA or Eclipse gets you (w.r.t. your ideal state)
09:44	cooldude127	NO, i've tried that for too long
09:44	cooldude127	i can't take it anymore
09:45	cooldude127	plus i figure this an AWESOME way to learn emacs-lisp
09:45	Raynes	jbondeson: "because I can".
09:45	Raynes	;)
09:46	jbondeson	Raynes: my soul weeps for you
09:46	Raynes	Give me a break, they aren't that bad. At least they're improving.
09:46	jbondeson	every time i see the eclipse startup screen a little piece of me dies
09:47	Raynes	Oh, you just don't like Eclipse in general.
09:47	cemerick	I'm becoming very happy with enclojure of late for straightforward editing and development. Hopefully the debugging and profiling aren't too far behind.
09:47	Raynes	cemerick: Enclojure isn't bad at all, but I get persecuted for using Netbeans. :\|
09:48	jbondeson	Raynes: i first used eclipse back when it when you could type faster than it could display because of all the extra work it was doing.
09:48	cooldude127	haha
09:48	Raynes	I switch between the two all the time though.
09:58	Bracki	Is there something that does exception to nil conversion with out using excessive try/catch blocks?
09:58	Chouser	Bracki: sure, the macro you're about to write.
09:59	Bracki	,(doc defmacro)
09:59	clojurebot	"([name doc-string? attr-map? [params] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? ([params] body) + attr-map?]); Like defn, but the resulting function name is declared as a macro and will be used as a macro by the compiler when it is called."
09:59	Chouser	or the one cgrand already wrote for you: http://clj-me.blogspot.com/2009/01/try-or-or-try-try-else-or-else-try.html
09:59	Chouser	gotta love that url.
10:00	Bracki	Hm what does ~ do?
10:00	AWizzArd	it unquotes
10:01	gnuvince	,(let [x 10] `(x ~x))
10:01	clojurebot	(sandbox/x 10)
10:01	Bracki	?
10:01	AWizzArd	,'(a b c)
10:01	clojurebot	(a b c)
10:02	AWizzArd	,(quote (a b c))
10:02	clojurebot	(a b c)
10:02	AWizzArd	now imagine b is a variable of the value 10
10:02	AWizzArd	and you want to give that 10 back
10:02	AWizzArd	instead of the symbol "b"
10:02	AWizzArd	then you unquote
10:03	AWizzArd	,`(1 2 (+ 1 2) ~(+ 1 2))
10:03	clojurebot	(1 2 (clojure.core/+ 1 2) 3)
10:03	Bracki	Aight, the wholde code is data/data is code drama.
10:03	AWizzArd	just imagine the clojure.core/ would not be there
10:03	AWizzArd	`(1 2 (+ 1 2) ~(+ 1 2)) ==> (1 2 (+ 1 2) 3)
10:04	gnuvince	If it were Ruby, ~ would be sort of like #{} in strings
10:04	Chouser	gah!
10:04	gnuvince	gu!
10:08	gnuvince	Damn
10:08	gnuvince	cgrand just left
10:09	Chouser	cgrand1 is still here. Hi, cgrand1!
10:09	gnuvince	oh
10:09	Chouser	or maybe not. shrug
10:09	gnuvince	His try-or looks sort of the opposite of the Maybe monad, does it not?
10:10	Chouser	"real world hasekll" is on my reading list. or would be if I had a reading list.
10:10	cgrand1	I'm here!
10:15	cgrand1	gnuvince: try-or is somewhat related to mplus in the Maybe monad
10:29	cemerick	asymptotically so as clojure gains in popularity, I suspect
10:29	gnuvince	If people find it annoying, a lot of IRC clients have ignore and soft ignore features.
10:31	cemerick	at a certain point, that convention would repel newcomers to the channel. A similar feed of mentions of python (or whatever) would get XXX updates each minute.
10:31	cemerick	it's nice for now, though :-)
10:33	gnuvince	At one point, we could just have a planet.clojure.org site to keep the channel cleaner.
10:36	cemerick	definitely
10:36	danlarkin	+100
10:52	Raynes	"I suppose I should learn Lisp, but it seems so foreign." - Paul Graham, Nov 1983
10:52	Chouser	wow, nice.
10:54	cemerick	just wait 'til you get to the forest of hooks
10:54	cooldude127	lol
10:56	Raynes	March 4th is the 50th anniversary of LISP.
10:57	arbscht_	again? :)
10:57	Raynes	Yessir.
11:00	lisppaste8	cgrand pasted "form-scoped expansion-time bindings" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76144
11:01	Bracki	Hm, I need help w/ ns problems.
11:01	Bracki	java.lang.Exception: namespace 'protocol' not found after loading '/protocol' (urkle.clj:0)
11:04	Chouser	cgrand2: is this enlive-related?
11:05	cgrand2	Chouser: yup
11:06	Chouser	I haven't tried that yet, but I just recommended it to a friend.
11:06	AWizzArd	A (sorted-set) will stay sorted, right? Even if I conj elements into it.
11:06	Chouser	AWizzArd: yes
11:07	Chouser	AWizzArd: that is its purpose
11:07	cgrand2	Chouser: while coding enlive, I didn't find a good way to make the current node contextual for other (lexically scoped) macroexpansions
11:09	cgrand2	and I ended using unquote as a quick and dirty way to say "here I need to pass the current node"
11:09	AWizzArd	Is there a better way to do this:
11:09	AWizzArd	,(get {:x 25} :y (delay (throw (Exception.))))
11:09	AWizzArd	throwing an exception if a key is not present in a map/set
11:10	cgrand2	(since ~ expands to a fully qualified clojure.core/unquote it's easy to find)
11:10	Chouser	AWizzArd: Jason Wolfe wrote a safe-get or safe-map thing to do that.
11:10	cgrand2	Chouser: thanks for recommending it
11:11	Chouser	cgrand2: oh, you used ~ outside of ` ?
11:11	cgrand2	yes
11:11	Bracki	Hm, what do I need to set the classpath to if I've got multiple source files?
11:12	cgrand2	and the above paste is my attempt to get rid of those ~ by "controlling" macroexpansion
11:12	Bracki	I have this layout: start.clj start/other.clj
11:12	Bracki	I can't call the stuff in other.clj from start.clj
11:13	cooldude127	Bracki: start/other.clj is a new namespace
11:13	cooldude127	you need to use it
11:15	Chouser	a couple dozen lines of Clojure is a lot of Clojure. It's likely to contain the same level of complexity as pages of Java.
11:19	Chouser	so propagate is a tree walker
11:19	cgrand2	yup
11:19	Chouser	cgrand2: did you look at clojure.contrib.walk?
11:20	Chouser	I don't know if it would help or not.
11:21	cgrand2	Chouser: I looked at it
11:21	Chouser	ok
11:22	cgrand2	propagate is not a complete tree-walker: it cooperates with the compiler
11:23	Bracki	(ns start :use [other])
11:23	Bracki	right?
11:25	gnuvince	Bracki: (ns start (:use [other]))
11:26	cgrand2	and the around-form macro can be seen as a continuation passing mechanism
11:26	gnuvince	cgrand2: do you work in Clojure at work?
11:28	cgrand2	gnuvince: I try to (I'm a freelancer)
11:28	gnuvince	Ah OK.
11:31	Raynes	Remove the free part and it makes sense.
11:33	cemerick	uh...
11:34	Raynes	"lances cgrand2 in the neck!"
11:34	Raynes	Stop being dicks :<
11:36	brianh	cgrand2: OT but is that a rock outcropping behind you in your picture? you a climber?
11:38	cgrand2	brianh: it's a sycamore :-)
11:40	brianh	cgrand2: ahh
11:41	brianh	cgrand2: was just curious. have been to Fountainbleau several times & love visiting France
11:48	cgrand2	brianh: to climb on the sandstone boulders?
11:48	brianh	cgrand2: yes
11:50	brianh	cgrand2: most times i was actually in the area for work
11:51	brianh	cgrand2: but made sure i had time for fun :)
11:53	niet	(partial map f) , what the hell is that? just map then?
11:54	Chouser	niet: that's a bit like #(map f %)
11:54	jbondeson	Chouser: i'm running into some problems persisting xml zippers, have you ever done anything with this, or should i write some code around it to get that to work?
11:55	niet	what is a zipper really?
11:55	Chouser	jbondeson: persisting as in converting to bytes? I've not done that.
11:56	Chouser	jbondeson: you want to keep the current node, not just the underlying logical tree?
11:56	niet	zip(a,b) -> [(a[0],b[0])...(a[n],b[n])] ?
11:57	Chouser	niet: nope, that's (map vector a b)
11:57	cemerick	niet: no, Huet zippers
11:57	jbondeson	Chouser: i'm trying to figure out some way to keep the structure sharing without getting crazy. i think i may just have to store raw xml and re-zipper on load
11:58	Chouser	niet: zippers are clojure.zip -- a data structure for storing a tree plus a "current node" in the tree
11:58	cemerick	jbondeson: what's the specific problem? I'd think print-dup would serialize a zipper pretty well.
11:58	Chouser	jbondeson: If you don't need the current node saved, that's probably the most sensible.
11:59	Chouser	jbondeson: or save as clojure.xml data, printed. Then you can 'read' instead of xml-parsing.
12:02	jbondeson	cemerick: running into class format issues
12:05	cemerick	jbondeson: it'd be worth giving print-dup a try, I'd think
12:05	jbondeson	cemerick: trying it right now
12:06	Raynes	(doc print-dup)
12:06	clojurebot	excusez-moi
12:06	Raynes	Haha
12:07	jbondeson	cemerick: takes a little bit since i'm working with quite a bit of data ~25MB of xml
12:07	cemerick	ah-ha. Eww. ;-)
12:07	lisppaste8	hmm pasted "same result, why?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76153
12:08	niet	can someone tell me when ^^ gives different results?
12:10	Chouser	the fn returned by partial will take any number of args, and pass them all to max
12:10	Chouser	the fn created by #(... %) will take only a single arg.
12:11	jbondeson	hmmm, still getting ClassFormat errors.
12:27	Lau_of_DK	Good evening cgrand + (rest #clojure)
12:27	jbondeson	'ello
12:28	WizardofWestmarc	heya Lau
12:29	cgrand	Hi Lau_of_DK!
12:29	gnuvince	,#clojure
12:29	clojurebot	No dispatch macro for: c
12:30	Lau_of_DK	I think this is both ridicously funny, and at the sametime it says a lot about most people nowadays: http://i39.tinypic.com/24w7ed0.jpg :)
12:30	jbondeson	man, this xml is gonna be the death of me.
12:30	jbondeson	never trust a technology with an X in it!
12:31	Lau_of_DK	jbondeson: XML in Clojure is a breeze :)
12:31	jbondeson	Lau_of_DK: except if you want to persist the parsed xml structures =(
12:32	jbondeson	having trouble with xml zippers
12:32	Lau_of_DK	jbondeson: How is that a problem ? Persist how ?
12:32	Lau_of_DK	zip-filter?
12:32	lisppaste8	hmm pasted "euler" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76155
12:32	jbondeson	i'm writing them out to file with print-dup and trying to read them back in, and running into ClassCast exceptions
12:32	niet	i cant figure out how that solution ^^ works
12:33	hiredman	jbondeson: you are writting out zippers yes?
12:34	jbondeson	yeah
12:34	Lau_of_DK	niet: It looks like it sums all the pairs, starting at the second lowest row, picks the max of that, and does the same on the row above, working its way to the top
12:34	niet	lau: yes
12:34	hiredman	I am not sure about ClassCastE but zippers use metadata, and I dunno if print-dup handles that
12:34	niet	but i wasnt clear. the last def , of s . it is recursiv without a basecase
12:35	jbondeson	hiredman: i'm doing similar things as clojurebot does with svn, just with much more data, and in verbose mode. so i'm caching tons of xml
12:35	jbondeson	hiredman: that makes sense.
12:36	Chouser	jbondeson: you're printing the zipper object, or the underlying tree?
12:36	jbondeson	Chouser: the actual zipper, i'm trying to keep the amount of data i have to store in memory down.
12:37	Chouser	,(binding [print-dup true] (prn '(#^{:some :meta} x)))
12:37	clojurebot	(#^#=(clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap/create {:some :meta}) x)
12:37	Chouser	print-dup does fine with meta-data
12:39	jbondeson	Chouser: i should be able to read that in with a simple "read" right?
12:39	cgrand	How are constants stored in clojure class files?
12:42	cgrand	jbondeson: when you try to serialze zippers on small structures, does it work?
12:42	Chouser	jbondeson: yes, you should be able to just 'read' and get all of it.
12:42	jbondeson	cgrand: it works on simple structures, yes
12:43	Chouser	cgrand: I'm not very sure about this (went looking for the code, but haven't found it yet), but I think the constants are printed with print-dup and then read on class load.
12:43	jbondeson	Chouser: i must have been doing the print-dup wrong, when i did it the way you just did i now gett errors about missing anonymous functions
12:44	Chouser	jbondeson: ah, that sounds better. :-)
12:44	jbondeson	it's storing things like (clojure.core$complement__3465$fn__3467. )
12:44	Chouser	the fns hanging off the zipper node meta-data probably can't be printed/read.
12:45	jbondeson	makes sense.
12:45	jbondeson	i guess i'll have to keep the xml data as well, and then re-zipper the xml on load
12:45	cgrand	Chouser: thanks
12:45	jbondeson	or just do without a zipper
12:46	Chouser	jbondeson: there are three stages, right?: xml, parsed xml, and zipper
12:46	Chouser	parsed xml should print/read ok, I think.
12:46	jbondeson	Chouser: yeah, i was just about to try that.
12:46	jbondeson	if i'm careful about how much i zipper at a time i can probably do an on-demand zipper
12:56	jbondeson	hah, the xml read is saying there's no matching ctor for clojure.lang.PersistentStructMap/create
12:57	jbondeson	,#=(clojure.lang.PersistentStructMap/create {:tag :msg, :attrs nil})
12:57	clojurebot	No matching method found: create
12:57	jbondeson	lots o creates
13:00	jbondeson	it seems PersistentStructMap/create takes two args...
13:04	gnuvince	~seen rhickey
13:04	clojurebot	rhickey was last seen quiting IRC, 152 minutes ago
13:05	jbondeson	spose i'm back to storing raw xml.
13:09	Chouser	jbondeson: ah, sorry, forgot about that. structs don't print-dup either
13:09	Chouser	you could try plain printing -- they'd be read as array-maps, which are less memory efficient.
13:11	jbondeson	Chouser: think i'm going to just emit when persisting
13:15	yason	Hmmm, printing from a Swing application under Slime doesn't seem to work when control comes from the Java event loop. Does it sound like a Slime issue?
13:17	jbondeson	yason: check your inferior-lisp buffer
13:18	yason	jbondeson: ah, you're right. Is it possible to redirect it to the slime-repl clojure buffer?
13:18	jbondeson	unfortunately, no.
13:19	jbondeson	slime only grabs the result of an action.
13:19	jbondeson	it ignores anything else
13:19	yason	jbondeson: OK, good to know. Thanks!
13:19	jbondeson	if you're going to be doing tons of async printing turn off fancy
13:20	jbondeson	that'll give you slime features but drop the redirect buffer iirc
13:21	yason	"fancy" being which variable/function/mode? Didn't find anything immediately.
13:21	jbondeson	the call to slime-setup
13:22	jbondeson	usually it's (slime-setup '(slime-fancy))
13:22	yason	ah, that
13:22	jbondeson	if you just (slime-setup) fancy is disabled
13:23	yason	jbondeson: C-c C-z then switches to inferior lisp buffer if there's no repl buffer?
13:23	jbondeson	i don't have C-c C-z defined, what is it for you?
13:24	yason	slime-switch-to-output-buffer
13:25	jbondeson	haven't used non-fancy, but i would hope so =D
13:26	yason	I'll have to check it out
13:26	yason	I don't print much or regularly, but debug prints are handy if you know where to find them
13:27	yason	I don't use repl much though so I might stick with non-fancy, actually. Will have to check it out.
13:27	yason	There's so much to configure in Slime I've never bothered to learn all the features :)
13:28	gnuvince	yason: just do like I do: use it like you have it now, when you see a configuration from someone else that you don't have try it out.
13:30	shoover	yason: M-x slime-redirect-inferior-output
13:30	yason	gnuvince: that's pretty much how I do it :)
13:31	jbondeson	yason: proof of your point, had no idea that slime-redirect-inferior-output existed.
13:31	yason	gnuvince: I trust I'll bump into any interesting and useful configurations over time
13:31	yason	shoover: ditto!
13:31	gnuvince	yason: indeed. You can search for references to slime, init.el, etc. on github, you often find nice little jewels
13:34	jbondeson	you can have it always on by putting (add-hook 'slime-connected-hook 'slime-redirect-inferior-output) in your .emacs
13:39	Lau_of_DK	I asked a question earlier that I probably didnt understand the answer to. I'll try again. Lets say I have a Javafunc which takes 3 floats - clojure doesnt have shorthand for floats yet, so in the meantime, I want to do something like (.javaFunc obj (apply (fn [x] (float x)) [1 2 3])) - Why doesnt this work ?
13:39	yason	gnuvince: the usual for emacs too. I often end up coding some useful function in elisp until I find out next year that there's a package for it and it has been included in Emacs for years :)
13:39	yason	jbondeson: thanks
13:42	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: did you try (.javaMethod obj 1 2 3) ? Numbers seem to be converted automatically.
13:42	Chouser	,(Float/isNaN 5)
13:42	clojurebot	false
13:42	Chouser	isNaN takes only a float
13:43	Lau_of_DK	hmm - Why didnt I think of that
13:43	Lau_of_DK	I just noticed that 5.0 => double, so I figured it'd never work
13:43	jbondeson	Lau_of_DK: cause it was obvious and we programmers are in the business of making things harder ;)
13:44	Lau_of_DK	But ok, on principle, if I want to apply a function to a stream of numbers, and the resulting streams has to be passed as arguments, can that be done?
13:44	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: for the manual conversion you want (apply #(javafunc %&) (map float [1 2 3]))
13:44	Chousuke	with a .
13:44	Lau_of_DK	%& ?
13:44	Chousuke	rest
13:44	Lau_of_DK	k
13:44	Lau_of_DK	Thanks guys
13:44	Chouser	Chousuke: next. :-)
13:45	Chouser	hm, not that either, I guess.
13:45	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: I didnt update to LazyTown yet :) Still scared
13:45	drewr	I'm still using a working copy from late Jan
13:46	jbondeson	lazy is fun
13:46	jbondeson	regardless of what clojurebot says
13:46	Chousuke	I should figure out how to make dd-wrt distribute the 5 DHCP IPs I get from my ISP to machines on my LAN
13:46	jbondeson	~lazy?
13:46	clojurebot	lazy is hard
13:47	drewr	I'm sure it is fun, but I've got a alot of code to change.
13:47	jbondeson	come on, nothing is more fun than losing your mind debugging an infinte loop in the new lazy branch.
13:48	jbondeson	well, not branch, trunk now
13:48	Lau_of_DK	jbondeson: Isnt swank-clojure up and running with latest rev of Clojure?
13:48	jbondeson	yeah, it is
13:48	jbondeson	but i spent a couple days trying to fix it before jacho got to it
13:49	jbondeson	it was an adventure to say the least
13:56	danlei	kwoi
13:57	danlei	oops
14:02	Lau_of_DK	How do I get ant to realise where its dependencies are ?
14:03	jbondeson	ant dependencies or the project ant is compiling?
14:04	pietia	hello, which other language for JVM may be called "language for easier conurrent programming" ?
14:04	pietia	scala,clojure ... ?
14:05	Lau_of_DK	jbondeson: seems -lib did something
14:06	jbondeson	Lau_of_DK: i add a classpath node to the java node
14:06	Lau_of_DK	how ?
14:08	Lau_of_DK	its The Hoeck !
14:09	jbondeson	Lau_of_DK: unger the java node you can add <classpath><path location="another.jar"/></classpath>
14:09	Lau_of_DK	oh ok
14:11	jbondeson	i'm not an ant expert, but that's how i have it setup
14:12	Chouser	pietia: I think Clojure addresses concurrent programming more directly than Scala. Another interesting choice may be Erlang.
14:12	WizardofWestmarc	does Erlang have a JVM version?
14:12	pietia	Chouser, but in must be for jvm :)
14:13	WizardofWestmarc	Erlang does look pretty awesome however, but thanks to clojure it dropped down my must learn list a fair bit
14:13	WizardofWestmarc	at the very least I want to pick up Haskell before I mess with it now
14:13	Chouser	pietia: ah, you did say that. Clojure, then. :-)
14:13	pietia	:)
14:13	pietia	any other language?
14:14	pietia	x10 from ibm
14:14	zakwilson	I just saw some Haskell-derived language for the JVM that might do a pretty good job with concurrency. I can't remember what it's called.
14:14	Chouser	WizardofWestmarc: Haskell's next for me, though mostly to understand monads in their natural habitat, and to see if there are any other goodies to bring back to Clojure.
14:14	WizardofWestmarc	right
14:15	WizardofWestmarc	it's a different style of coding then anything else w/o static typing or the like
14:15	zakwilson	Ahh, here we go: CAL - http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html
14:15	WizardofWestmarc	and I want to experience it to see what's useful
14:15	WizardofWestmarc	especially now that Real World Haskell is out
14:15	WizardofWestmarc	my one beef from my super limited time in Haskell is you can't define functions in the REPL >_<
14:21	Fib	WizardofWestmarc: You can, you just have to use 'let'...
14:21	Fib	e.g. >let my_add a b = (a + b)
14:23	shoover	what is clojurebot up to? Earlier I thought it was really working on a Clojure elevator controller, until I realized it was reporting links from somewhere
14:23	WizardofWestmarc	those are tweets
14:25	shoover	ah, thus the deja vu between that and my RSS reader
14:25	hoeck	Lau_of_DK: yes!
14:26	WizardofWestmarc	have a feed set up for the clojure search?
14:26	shoover	WizardofWestmarc: yes
14:26	WizardofWestmarc	I should do that
14:26	WizardofWestmarc	but instead I just go back to the page every so often
14:26	shoover	or just watch this channel, apparently :)
14:27	WizardofWestmarc	true enough hah
14:36	Lau_of_DK	java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException (NO_SOURCE_FILE:1)
14:36	Lau_of_DK	I keep getting these when constructing an instance of a class - WHY? :)
14:44	Lau_of_DK	0: sun.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance0(Native Method)
14:44	Lau_of_DK	1: sun.reflect.NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(NativeConstructorAccessorImpl.java:39)
14:44	Lau_of_DK	2: sun.reflect.DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.newInstance(DelegatingConstructorAccessorImpl.java:27)
14:44	Lau_of_DK	3: java.lang.reflect.Constructor.newInstance(Constructor.java:513)
14:44	Lau_of_DK
14:44	Lau_of_DK	I mean - What is this?
14:46	WizardofWestmarc	Fib: just saw your comment to me from before. Huh interesting
14:47	adakkak	can someone help me in compiling my clojure program into bytecode
14:50	adakkak	here is the error http://paste.lisp.org/display/76160
15:01	zakwilson	adakkak: you need to have the classes directory in your classpath.
15:01	adakkak	is that something that I create?
15:03	Chouser	adakkak: yes, you need to create it and make sure it's in your classpath before you start up the jvm.
15:08	adakkak	Chouser: how does compile know that something is a class directory? also, I placed my class directory "../build/classes/nlp/" in my classpath with the same result
15:09	hiredman	adakkak: by default clojure writes out classes to a directory called "classes" in the working directory
15:09	hiredman	if "classes" does not exist or is not on the classpath, it will not work
15:10	adakkak	created classes, but I get the same result
15:11	hiredman	is "classes" in your classpath?
15:11	hiredman	(System/getProperty "java.class.path")
15:11	hiredman	or something like that
15:12	adakkak	here is the output http://paste.lisp.org/display/76160#3
15:12	adakkak	yes it is
15:13	hiredman	ah
15:13	hiredman	here is you problem
15:13	hiredman	don't compile single segment namespaces
15:13	hiredman	switch to entity.detect
15:13	adakkak	what does that mean?
15:14	hiredman	segments are deliminated by dots
15:14	adakkak	so I should call my file entity.detect.clj and change the namespace accordingly?
15:15	hiredman	no
15:15	hiredman	the file would be detect.clj
15:16	adakkak	and ns will be (ns nlp.entity.calais.entity.detect) right?
15:16	adakkak	and ns will be (ns nlp.entity.calais.entity.detect) right?
15:16	hiredman	sorry about that, irssi went ape
15:16	adakkak	np
15:17	hiredman	if detect.clj is in nlp/entity/clais/entity/ then yes, that would be the namespace
15:17	hoeck	kotarak: will there be a port of your lazyMap to lazy clojure?
15:19	adakkak	nothing changed :(
15:21	cooldude127	~gen-class
15:21	clojurebot	No, cooldude127, you want gen-interface + proxy
15:21	cooldude127	that's what i thought
15:22	hiredman	adakkak: "./classes/" still is not in your classpath
15:22	cooldude127	in that case, can someone explain to me why gen-interface is documented to do nothing if code is not being compiled? can code that uses gen-interface possibly work correctly when not compiled with this being the case?
15:22	adakkak	yep
15:23	hiredman	cooldude127: I think the idea is you compile the interface, and then use proxy at runtime
15:23	cooldude127	hiredman: oh
15:24	cooldude127	well we'll just see about that
15:24	adakkak	hiredman: it just worked
15:25	adakkak	so if I want the classes files to be somewhere else then all I have to do is change the classpath and rerun the (compile...) function
15:25	hiredman	there is some ** var you can rebind to change the place where compile puts classes
15:25	hiredman	,(doc compile-path)
15:25	clojurebot	"; Specifies the directory where 'compile' will write out .class files. This directory must be in the classpath for 'compile' to work. Defaults to \"classes\""
15:26	adakkak	also, will java see the class as calais.detect, or will it be calais.Detect ?
15:27	hiredman	it will be whatever the namespace is
15:27	hiredman	nlp.entity.calais.entity.detect
15:27	adakkak	does the file name play a role?
15:27	cooldude127	is swank-clojure still broken after the merge?
15:27	cooldude127	or do i just suck?
15:28	hiredman	adakkak: the last segment of the namespace and the filename should be the same
15:28	adakkak	ok
15:29	hiredman	adakkak: now, uh, if you are using (gen-class ...) outside of (ns ...) thinks are a little different
15:29	hiredman	and even in the (ns ...) there are knobs you can tweak
15:33	adakkak	found it. thanks
15:33	kotarak	hoeck: there will. Just didn't come to it. Lazy branch merge happened with some other time-consuming things here. :)
15:36	adakkak	now I have to figure out how to let netbeans know about this new class
15:38	hoeck	kotarak: fine, i just looked at the lazymap sources today, currently I'm using hand-craftet maps of delays or pseudo-maps
15:39	cooldude127	ok i don't know what i'm doing wrong, i try compiling a namespace and i get and IOException: no such file or directory
15:39	kotarak	hoeck: that's what basically happens under the hood. However one needs also a LazyMapEntry to be truly lazy.
15:49	Bracki	Todays work: http://github.com/bracki/urkle/tree/master
15:49	hiredman	cooldude127: lets see some details
15:49	Bracki	kotarak: did you see my change to vimclojure? Without that it wouldnt run on my machine.
15:49	cooldude127	hiredman: (gen-interface
15:49	cooldude127	:name clojure.contrib.chrono.Instant
15:49	cooldude127	:extends [clojure.lang.IFn])
15:50	kotarak	Bracki: did you send me the pull request?
15:50	cooldude127	in the clojure.contrib.chrono namespace
15:50	Bracki	kotarak: yesa.
15:50	cooldude127	hiredman: tried (compile 'clojure.contrib.chrono)
15:50	hiredman	Bracki: awesome
15:50	cooldude127	i have an idea
15:50	Bracki	hiredman: aweful
15:50	Bracki	hiredman: poor parsing etc.
15:51	kotarak	Bracki: yes. saw it. Sorry just didn't come around. I'm merging Gorilla with VimClojure and the lazy changes really hit me at difficult time.
15:51	Bracki	Ah ok.
15:51	cooldude127	nope idea fail
15:51	Bracki	kotarak: I just rebuilt gorilla w/ the lazy changes and it kind of works for me.
15:52	cooldude127	hiredman: nvm i got it figured out
15:52	kotarak	Bracki: in the bleeding edge there were some changes necessary. Geez. If have to get the changes out soon. :\|
16:10	durka42	writing a program that reads files named ".update"... does anyone know if that name is taken?
16:12	kotarak	hoeck: pushed some changes for lazymap. I hope they are correct. I'm still not 100% sure about the lazy branch merge things. http://bitbucket.org/kotarak/lazymap/overview There is also a download button for .zip or .tgz. So you don't need hg.
16:25	hiredman	(doc alter)
16:25	clojurebot	Must be called in a transaction. Sets the in-transaction-value of ref to: (apply fun in-transaction-value-of-ref args) and returns the in-transaction-value of ref.; arglists ([ref fun & args])
16:34	Lau_of_DK	Do we have the 'final' keyword in clojure ?
16:34	Lau_of_DK	(el-finito JPanel.) ?
16:36	Lau_of_DK	(doc amap)
16:36	hiredman	uh
16:36	hiredman	I broke clojurebot
16:36	hiredman	I'd fix that
16:37	hiredman	(doc amap)
16:37	clojurebot	Maps an expression across an array a, using an index named idx, and return value named ret, initialized to a clone of a, then setting each element of ret to the evaluation of expr, returning the new array ret.; arglists ([a idx ret expr])
16:38	powr-toc	Lau_of_DK: which sense of final do you mean?
16:38	durka42	how do you do (alias 'zip 'clojure.zip) in the ns macro?
16:38	Lau_of_DK	powr-toc: the keywords which disallows subclasses
16:38	hiredman	durka42: (:require [clojure.zip :as zip])
16:39	durka42	aha
16:39	hiredman	Lau_of_DK: you mean for gen-classed classes?
16:39	durka42	require is the only one i didn't try
16:39	Lau_of_DK	hiredman: no I mean for instantiations of java classes
16:40	powr-toc	Lau_of_DK: it doesn't look like it
16:40	hiredman	Lau_of_DK: "the keywords which disallows subclasse" has no meaning in that case
16:41	Lau_of_DK	Why
16:41	hiredman	because you are not doing anything subclass realated
16:41	powr-toc	hiredman: sure it does... final classes can't be specialised
16:41	hiredman	you are instatiating a class
16:42	hiredman	not making a new class (which you would declare final)
16:43	Lau_of_DK	final PhysicsGameState physicsGameState = new PhysicsGameState("Physics tutorial");
16:43	Lau_of_DK	When I port this java code to clojure, it boorks
16:43	Lau_of_DK	Im wondering if its the keyword final
16:43	powr-toc	Lau_of_DK: that's just an immutable reference type
16:43	durka42	if you declare a variable in clojure it's going to final, no?
16:43	durka42	going to be*
16:43	powr-toc	Lau_of_DK: in clojure vars, refs, agents, atoms etc... all have concurrency semantics
16:44	durka42	,(prn (String. "test"))
16:44	powr-toc	so you don't really need final
16:44	clojurebot	"test"
16:45	hoeck	kotarak: wow, that was fast!
16:45	Lau_of_DK	k
16:45	powr-toc	durka42: not exactly... I don't think clojure has a direct parallel to final, i.e. you can rebind all clojure reference types... it's just they all have concurrency semantics
16:45	hoeck	kotarak: hg is just one "emerge" away :)
16:46	kotarak	hoeck: well it's a small library. It can be improved however. Will check whether a LazyMapSeq should extend ASeq.
16:47	kotarak	hoeck: on the webinterface there are also links to clone the repo. hg clone http://bitbucket.org/kotarak/lazymap IIRC.
16:48	hoeck	kotarak: yeah, just figured that out, even simpler than downloading, unzipping ... :)
16:48	kotarak	hoeck: oh, and the changes are without warranty. If you try, please let me know, whether there are problems.
16:50	hoeck	kotarak: unfortunately there are, the new rest does not work on the lazy map's seq, only next does
16:51	kotarak	hoeck: huh? I checked in the repl. There it seemed to work. Let me check again.
16:54	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: is "breena" a good name?
16:55	hoeck	kotarak: and building lazymap with a assert-if-lazy-seq fails here, but without it works
16:55	hiredman	,@hiredman.clojurebot.seenx/activity
16:55	clojurebot	Pardon?
16:56	hiredman	damn your eyes
16:57	danlei	why did rhickey call it "next" btw? i liked "more" better somehow. (next sounds like "the next element" to me)
16:57	tashafa	hello clojure
16:58	tashafa	clojure gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling inside
17:00	Chouser	tashafa: and it tastes great, besides.
17:00	Chouser	danlei: there a big ol' thread on that topic. You missed it?
17:01	Chouser	danlei: 69 messages: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/88d9fdb5bcad36a/ac087a3c5447a43b
17:01	danlei	Chouser: i'm not following the group closely, i'll read it up, thanks.
17:02	tashafa	question... if I wanted to run a background process that runs every 15mins or so, would I be in the ballpark if I used atoms
17:02	tashafa	?
17:03	Chouser	tashafa: what's the result of the process? Some side effects, or updating a value.
17:03	Chouser	actually, either way atom is probably wrong. More likely you want an agent.
17:03	tashafa	hmm... updating a database, i guess that would be a sideeffect
17:03	tashafa	yeah ii was just looking at it
17:04	tashafa	the book im reading calls for agents
17:04	Chouser	or maybe even just a Timer
17:04	hiredman	ugh
17:05	hiredman	don't use a Timer
17:05	tashafa	too Java?
17:05	powr-toc	Using a ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor directly might be a good option
17:05	hiredman	yes
17:05	hiredman	~jdoc ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor
17:05	hiredman	er
17:05	hiredman	that is not right
17:06	powr-toc	http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor.html
17:06	hiredman	yeah
17:07	Chouser	danlei: even if you don't read all of the group, I'd recommend this higher signal/noise ratio subset: http://tinyurl.com/bntq4v
17:08	danlei	Chouser: thanks for the tip, bookmarked
17:08	jbondeson	Chouser: in my ever continuing xml saga, do you know if there is a reason that rich had clojure.xml/emit println rather than create a string?
17:09	Chouser	I don't for sure, but my guess is that when printing to disk or network, you wouldn't have to hold the whole thing in memory before you began sending.
17:09	Chouser	jbondeson: you should be able to rebind out if you want it to go to disk or a socket instead of stdout
17:09	Chouser	or use 'with-out-str' if you want it in a string.
17:09	jbondeson	already on it
17:09	Chouser	ok
17:09	Bracki	I still have those namespace problems.
17:10	lisppaste8	Bracki pasted "Namespace issues" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76172
17:12	hiredman	Bracki: you have your namespace reversed
17:13	hiredman	if the namespace is urkle.test the fil should be urkle/test.clj
17:13	hiredman	if the filename is test/urkle.clj the namespace should be test.urkle
17:14	Bracki	That doesn't change anything unfortunately.
17:15	Bracki	Can the files be in a different namespace but in the same path?
17:15	Bracki	Or is this just like Java packages?
17:15	hiredman	a namespace is a java package
17:16	Chouser	a namespace is like a java package, but is also a java class.
17:17	Bracki	Hm, I just don't get it.
17:18	drewr	danlei++
17:18	Bracki	I have ./urkle.clj and test/urkle.clj, I want to use urkle and urkle.test as namespaces. What's wrong here.
17:18	Bracki	Is that a classpath issue?
17:19	Chouser	to use a .clj as a lib, it must be at least one dir down.
17:19	hiredman	is test/urkle.clj in the same directory as ./urkle.clj?
17:19	Bracki	yes.
17:20	Chouser	bracki/urkle.clj and bracki/urkle/test.clj
17:20	jbondeson	oy... and that still won't work because i have embedded quotes in the xml now.
17:20	Chouser	they should start with the ns macro declaring bracki.urkle and bracki.urkle.test respectively.
17:20	jbondeson	looks like i'm rewriting emit
17:20	Chouser	jbondeson: use clojure.contrib.lazy-xml/emit
17:21	Chouser	jbondeson: that should work even if you used clojure.xml to parse
17:22	jbondeson	Chouser: that uses println also
17:22	Chouser	yes, but it escapes quotes and such correctly.
17:23	Chouser	jbondeson: is there something wrong with 'with-out-str'?
17:23	Chouser	oh, sorry
17:23	Chouser	it's the newlines that are bothering you?
17:23	jbondeson	Chouser: no, what i mean is that the resulting string looks like this: "\"<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?>\"\n
17:23	jbondeson	which is invalid xml
17:24	jbondeson	every call to print adds a beginning quote and ending quote, which both with-out-str and manual binding
17:25	Chouser	that's not right
17:25	hiredman	uh
17:27	jbondeson	Chouser: would using print-dup potentially cauase any issues?
17:27	jbondeson	when persisting that is
17:27	Bracki	It still doesn't work. I'm doing it just like technomancy. http://github.com/technomancy/mire/tree/master
17:28	hiredman	,(binding [print-dup true] (println "foo"))
17:28	clojurebot	"foo"
17:28	hiredman	,(binding [print-dup false] (println "foo"))
17:28	clojurebot	foo
17:28	hiredman	I guess so
17:28	Chouser	jbondeson: ah! yes it would.
17:29	kotarak	hoeck: pushed a fix (hopefully). Works here with and without assert-if-lazy-seq, though.
17:30	kotarak	hoeck: ok. And maybe I'm too stupid to the flag. Just a sec.
17:30	jbondeson	now i just need to nuke all these '\n's
17:30	Bracki	Moved everything to src. So now I have src/urkle.clj and src/urkle/test.clj.
17:31	Bracki	Shouldnt java -cp /path/clojure.jar:src/ clojure.main src/urkle.clj work?
17:32	hiredman	Bracki: depends on the namespaces declared in urkle.clj and test.clj
17:32	Chouser	Bracki: I'm pretty sure a lib with no dot in its name is not valid.
17:32	hiredman	*namespace
17:32	Chouser	that's why I suggested bracki/urkle.clj for the ns bracki.urkle
17:33	kotarak	hoeck: No. It's ok. Seems to work now. :) Please let me know any more problems. :) Gotta go now, though. I'm around here from time to time or via the email in the README.
17:34	lisppaste8	Bracki annotated #76172 "namespace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76172#1
17:35	hiredman	ugh
17:35	hiredman	Bracki: your namespaces are still all wrong
17:35	hiredman	fix them.
17:37	hiredman	clojurebot: namespaces?
17:37	clojurebot	excusez-moi
17:37	Bracki	Sorry for being a dunce. But what is all wrong?
17:37	Chouser	Bracki: I'm pretty sure a lib with no dot in its name is not valid.
17:38	Chouser	that's why I suggested bracki/urkle.clj for the ns bracki.urkle
17:38	Bracki	But why does the stuff work I posted.
17:38	Bracki	Because of that awful (add-classpath) sutff?
17:38	Chouser	oh, you got it working?
17:39	Bracki	No, but my layout is the same as in technomancy's mire. He also has a single ns without any dots.
17:39	hiredman	clojurebot: namespaces are (more or less, Chouser) java packages. they look like foo.bar; and corresponde to a directory foo/ containg a file bar.clj in your classpath. the namespace declaration in bar.clj would like like (ns foo.bar). Do not try to use single segment namespaces. a single segment namespace is a namespace without a period in it
17:39	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
17:40	hiredman	Bracki: well, technomancy is doing it wrong, so you will have to ask him how he got "doing it wrong" to work
17:41	Chouser	the "at least one dot" rule may only apply when you try to compile to bytecode, I'm not sure.
17:41	hiredman	which branch of mire are you looking at?
17:41	Bracki	The latest.
17:42	hiredman	Chouser: feel free to alter clojurebot's brain
17:42	Bracki	http://github.com/technomancy/mire/tree/master
17:42	hiredman	Bracki: mire is developed in several steps, which are shown in the branches
17:43	Bracki	The master branch has everything.
17:43	hiredman	;urkle/test.clj
17:43	hiredman	(ns urkle.test
17:43	hiredman	whoops
17:43	Chouser	hiredman: either way. nobody wants to find out they have to rename everything just to get it to compile.
17:47	Bracki	Inside a namespace do I have to :use myself?
17:48	Chouser	no
17:49	Bracki	well that's causing the bloody problem.
17:50	danlei	ok, having read the thread, i still feel that "next" connotates returning an item, and would have preferred something like "rest", but that's just words. i'll get used to it.
17:52	danlei	oops s/rest/more/
18:00	lisppaste8	Bracki annotated #76172 "So close." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76172#2
18:00	Bracki	OK, I nearly have it.
18:01	Bracki	So how do I include a package that's on the same level? As in test.clj.
18:04	hiredman	if you are in the urkle directory, the classpath should not contain "\urkle\"
18:04	hiredman	just "\."
18:04	Bracki	No I have urkle\urkle.
18:06	Chouser	try "urkle" instead of "\urkle" perhaps?
18:07	hiredman	if you are remove back-slashes I would just remove the leading one
18:08	Bracki	Could that be a Windows issue?
18:08	Bracki	How do I print the classpath from the repl?
18:11	hiredman	(System/getProperty "java.class.path")
18:11	Bracki	Yippie. It works.
18:12	Bracki	The correct classpath is: java -cp ..\path\clojure.jar;..\path\clojure-contrib.jar;. <--- Notice the dot after the semicolon.
18:13	hiredman	15:03 hiredman : if you are in the urkle directory, the classpath should not contain "\urkle\"
18:13	Bracki	hiredman: Yeah, well said.
18:13	Bracki	Thanks and sorry for bothering you guys.
18:17	Bracki	When using clojure.main to run a file, what do I need to do exit back to the shell?
18:18	drewr	Bracki: It'll exit when -main returns.
18:19	hiredman	java clojure.main --help
18:19	hiredman	it has a list of different options
18:19	hiredman	do you mean just kill the repl and exit the jvm?
18:19	hiredman	(System/exit)
18:19	hiredman	or Ctr-Z on windows?
18:22	Bracki	Yes. (System/exit)
18:25	tashafa	xml question... how do i get the content of every tag with a name into a seq?
18:25	tashafa	i have a fn that does this but there should be an easier way
18:26	tashafa	e.g. every 'link' content in an atom feed
18:26	Bracki	,(doc xml/parse)
18:26	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: xml/parse in this context
18:26	Bracki	,(doc clojure.xml/parse)
18:26	clojurebot	"([s] [s startparse]); Parses and loads the source s, which can be a File, InputStream or String naming a URI. Returns a tree of the xml/element struct-map, which has the keys :tag, :attrs, and :content. and accessor fns tag, attrs, and content. Other parsers can be supplied by passing startparse, a fn taking a source and a ContentHandler and returning a parser"
18:28	tashafa	Bracki: yes, but do i have to walk each hash-set filtering out the results?
18:28	hiredman	tashafa: how else would you do it?
18:29	tashafa	hiredman: well i thought there would be some easier way in clojur.contrib
18:30	Chouser	tashafa: you might look at clojure.contrib.zip-filter.xml
18:30	tashafa	i wish clojure.contrib had an api documentation on the web
18:30	tashafa	as cool
18:30	tashafa	ah cool*
18:30	tashafa	thanks
18:32	Bracki	Any code coverage tools for clojure yet?
18:34	tashafa	Chouser: exactly what i was looking for, even authored by you... you are the man
18:37	westajay	ok.. heading home...
18:37	westajay	byeeeee.
18:38	westajay	sorry.. wrong channel.. :-)
18:42	tashafa	hmm.. any idea on why its called 'zip'
18:42	hiredman	it uses zippers
18:42	powr-toc	just looking through the implementation of agents... am I right in thinking that watchers only fire, if the state is set to a different object? i.e. if you were to wrap a java.util.HashMap in an agent, and modify the map with the function you pass to the agent, the watchers wouldn't be notified?
18:42	tashafa	hahaha
18:42	hiredman	no
18:42	hiredman	for real
18:42	hiredman	clojure.zip
18:43	tashafa	yeah im looking at it now
18:43	tashafa	hierarchical zipper
18:43	hiredman	they are way cool
18:43	Chouser	powr-toc: that's right. Clojure's reference types generally assume you're using immutable data.
18:44	powr-toc	Chouser: yeah, I knew that was the default... and it makes sense; just something to be aware of i.e. that the test is an identity test, not an equality one
18:45	tashafa	so much to learn, so little time
18:45	Chouser	oh, I see what you were asking.
18:45	Chouser	tashafa: yeah -- I don't have a tutorial for zip-filter yet.
18:46	Chouser	tashafa: but hopefully the examples in the comment there are enough for you to make it work, even if you don't know exactly what's going on underneath.
18:46	powr-toc	I'm loving being able to quickly dig through the implementation source code, clojure's source is way more accessible than almost any other language I know of
18:46	tashafa	Chaouser: problem solved... the tests in zip-filter.xml is enought
18:46	Chouser	tashafa: ah, good.
18:46	tashafa	were enough*
18:47	Chouser	great, so if you wouldn't mind writing up a tutorial...
18:47	tashafa	everything just works as advertised and you can write and test your whole application in the repl
18:48	tashafa	i'm in programming heaven
18:49	tashafa	hmm.. write a tutorial? on just contrib.zip-filter?
18:49	Chouser	sure, if you'd like.
18:49	Chouser	I was joking a bit of course, by any such documentation would be welcom.e
18:50	tashafa	ha
18:50	Chouser	man, I can't type.
18:50	tashafa	a tutorial would be nice though... but i think the tests are enough
18:50	Chouser	"but any such documentation would be welcome"
18:53	tashafa	all i think we need are the docs of the functions of clojure.contrib in an indexable format... the tests and fns are succint enough to grasp how they work
18:56	tashafa	for now
18:56	tashafa	documentation will be needed later down the road when the dust settles
19:25	clojurebot	svn rev 1307; added type
19:26	durka42	but then sometimes i get annoyed when i type (/ 783 25) at the repl "783/25 is what i typed! i want to know what that is!"
19:28	durka42	is that svn change for custom print-methoding?
20:18	Raynes	http://paste.pocoo.org/show/105483/ Completely irrelevant, but entertaining either way. The main developer of SharpE (which is the channel I was in.) (he's also a Delphi programmer) agreed with her and I eventually got banned for calling her a bitch.
20:21	danlarkin	we're not here to justify your bigotry :)
20:21	Raynes	Mind you, she insulted me 5 times before hand just for trying to explain it to her.
20:21	cooldude127	lol
20:22	Raynes	I don't believe it's bigotry, as I have about 25 people on hand right now to agree with me. A command line and a text editor, and knowledge to use them are essential tools for every programmer.
20:23	Raynes	90% of you use Emacs for Clojure.
20:23	cooldude127	yes we do
20:23	Raynes	I use an Netbeans.
20:23	Raynes	See my point?
20:23	Raynes	._.
20:24	Raynes	I /could/ use emacs and a command line for Clojure, but I choose not too because Enclojure exists.
20:25	gnuvince	haha
20:25	Raynes	That's true nerdism right there.
20:25	Raynes	Embrace the nerd.
20:25	cooldude127	lol
20:26	danlarkin	ok I've got some actual clojure content to talk about for once... I need some help writing the following functionality in a functional style
20:26	gnuvince	The difference between choosing Emacs or choosing Eclipse/Neatbeans/etc. is whether you want/need something that you can configure completely like you want it or just a package that works well enough
20:26	cooldude127	danlarkin: i love these probleems
20:27	danlarkin	it's for my django clone/rewrite/whatever, it's for applying middleware,
20:27	danlarkin	so there's this function that takes a request-map and returns an response-map
20:28	danlarkin	and inside this function it examines the URL and then calls another function, a "view" to handle it, depending on the url
20:28	cooldude127	danlarkin: paste it :)
20:28	danlarkin	and it also applies "middleware" functions to the request and response at different points
20:29	danlarkin	so a middleware can define itself to be called before the view runs, after the view runs, etc
20:29	danlarkin	a few places
20:29	cooldude127	PASTE
20:30	cooldude127	:)
20:30	danlarkin	so the way I've got it now (which is wrong) is (merge (map call-middleware list-of-middlewares))
20:30	danlarkin	fiiiiine
20:30	cooldude127	lol
20:30	cooldude127	danlarkin: this sounds like, without seeing it, a problem for reduce
20:31	cooldude127	rather than map
20:31	danlarkin	well
20:31	danlarkin	I haven't gotten to the problem yet
20:32	danlarkin	lisppaste8: url
20:32	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
20:32	cooldude127	i love lisppaste.el
20:33	lisppaste8	danlarkin pasted "middleware" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76179
20:33	gnuvince	cooldude127: link?
20:34	cooldude127	http://www.ph.ed.ac.uk/~s0198183/lisppaste.el
20:34	danlarkin	ok, so that's the main dispatch function or whatever
20:34	Chouser	durka42: I do believe you're right.
20:34	durka42	should be useful
20:35	danlarkin	the problem, though, is if I want a middleware to be able to return a response
20:35	danlarkin	instead of just modifying the request
20:36	danlarkin	if I want a middleware that short-circuts all requests for an URL with an "e" in it (whatever), it needs to be able to just return a response, straight up
20:38	cooldude127	danlarkin: this still seems like you need to do a reduce-like loop/recur, where you check for a certain sentinel value
20:39	cooldude127	danlarkin: seems like a good way would be a list of before-middleware functions, the view function, and then after-middleware functions
20:40	cooldude127	that all get a request and response and do their stuff with that
20:40	cooldude127	but as part of a response, they can signal they are done
20:40	cooldude127	it's basically a pipeline
20:41	cooldude127	so instead of that merge call, you just start the loop with that data in the response, and then the pipeline does as it pleases
20:42	danlarkin	I'm thinking it over
20:43	cooldude127	each middleware becomes a pure function that takes a request and response and returns modified versions of both/either of them. the response has an attribute that tells if it's done. the loop checks this
20:44	cooldude127	you could just use reduce if you didn't need to short-circuit, but because you do, loop/recur is a good way
20:46	danlarkin	yes, originally I was using reduce, but I realized it was unnecessary, since merge takes & args
20:46	danlarkin	but yes, I'm going to try to riff on this and I'll get back to you, thanks
20:46	cooldude127	danlarkin: k cool :)
21:17	powr-toc	Presumably watchers run in the calling thread when used with refs?
21:18	Chouser	not currently
21:19	powr-toc	ahh of course... they have to be agents
21:19	Chouser	watchers are currently agents
21:19	Chouser	right
21:19	Chouser	But that will change soon, I believe
21:19	rhickey	right
21:19	powr-toc	is it known what the change will be?
21:20	Chouser	powr-toc: this is what I know: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/issues/detail?id=80
21:20	powr-toc	yeah, you showed me that the other day :-)
21:20	Chouser	well, there you go then.
21:21	powr-toc	I was having the same thoughts, when rewriting code from the previous implementation
21:23	Chouser	yeah, my one real use of watchs was much simpler than when I rewrote to use watchers.
21:24	Chouser	I await the new API with anticipation.
21:24	powr-toc	me too :-)
21:30	hiredman	(doc lazy-seq)
21:30	clojurebot	Takes a body of expressions that returns an ISeq or nil, and yields a Seqable object that will invoke the body only the first time seq is called, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent seq calls. Any closed over locals will be cleared prior to the tail call of body.; arglists ([& body])
21:31	hiredman	clojurebot: where is your brain?
21:31	clojurebot	No entiendo
21:31	hiredman	clojurebot: brain dump?
21:31	clojurebot	brain dump is http://clj.thelastcitadel.com/clojurebot
21:37	durka42	clojurebot: it's too late to apologize
21:37	clojurebot	Pardon?
21:37	durka42	clojurebot: apologize for me, i don't feel like it
21:37	clojurebot	mea culpa!
21:39	danlarkin	heh, where are the docs on destructuring? I can't seem to find them ATM :-[
21:40	Chouser	http://clojure.org/special_forms#let
21:40	hiredman	clojurebot: destructuring?
21:40	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithsc�al?
21:40	hiredman	clojurebot: destructuring is http://clojure.org/special_forms#let
21:40	clojurebot	In Ordnung
21:41	danlarkin	thanks :)
21:42	hiredman	huh
21:43	hiredman	java.lang.management
21:50	Chouser	durka42: apparently it's not meant for custom printing, but it'll do
21:50	durka42	what is it meant for?
21:50	Chouser	,(.addMethod print-method :foo (fn [o w] (doto w (.write "#<foo: ") (.write (:x o)) (.write ">"))))
21:50	clojurebot	#<MultiFn clojure.lang.MultiFn@1137792>
21:50	Chouser	,#^{:type :foo} {:x "whee"}
21:50	clojurebot	{:x "whee"}
21:50	Chouser	fail.
21:51	durka42	bot might not be updated
21:51	Chouser	oh, of course
21:51	Chouser	durka42: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/a378004f6d7419b8
21:56	cmvkk	i want something where you can write a function that takes a single integer argument, then you can use it like you would a vector, like with get or seq or map.
21:56	cmvkk	you'd have to change java stuff to implement something like that right?
21:56	Chouser	you can probably do it with proxy, but I'm not quite sure what you want.
21:58	cmvkk	well like i mean you could write (defn foo [x] (+ x 2)) and then do (get foo 3)
21:58	cmvkk	or (map #(* % 3) foo)
21:59	powr-toc	cmvkk: I'm guessing you could use a proxy to implement ISeq, and that'd give you everything except special reader syntax for vectors...
22:00	cmvkk	oh yeah proxy. but it definitely would involve implementing ISeq.
22:01	hiredman	~def get
22:02	Chouser	,(let [z (proxy [clojure.lang.Associative] [] (seq [] '(4 5 6)) (valAt [n] (+ 3 n)))] (prn (get z 5)) (prn (map #(* % 3) z)))
22:02	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission accessDeclaredMembers)
22:03	hiredman	:)
22:03	cmvkk	heh
22:04	Chouser	no proxy, eh?
22:04	hiredman	I guess
22:05	cmvkk	i guess ignoring get, i could just write a function that takes a function like that and returns a lazy seq, which is good enough for map and stuff.
22:05	Chouser	so, you may not need to implement ISeq, just a seq method that returns an ISeq
22:06	cmvkk	(defn fnseq ([x] (fnseq x 0 nil)) ([x s e] (map #(x %) (range s e)))) or something
22:10	stuhood	is there an equivalent of (contains?) for lists/vectors?
22:10	Chouser	if you're doing that kind of operation, a set or map might work better.
22:11	stuhood	i suppose... its for the arguments to a script
22:11	Chouser	you can do a linear scan of the seq if you really want to.
22:11	durka42	those could be positional
22:11	durka42	i.e. not a set
22:12	Chouser	,(some #{'c} '(a b c d e))
22:12	clojurebot	c
22:12	stuhood	well, it seems reasonable to have something like that in the standard library... understanding that it would be O(n) of course
22:13	Chouser	,(.contains '(a b c d e) 'c)
22:13	clojurebot	true
22:13	Chouser	hard to get much simpler than those.
22:13	stuhood	oh, that works too
22:13	stuhood	i forgot clojure collections implement Collection
22:14	stuhood	Chouser: thanks!
22:15	Chouser	,('c (set '(a b c d e)))
22:15	clojurebot	c
22:15	Chouser	sure
22:50	danlarkin	cooldude127: okay, looks like I've got it worked out. It's a lot uglier, but it works
23:18	stuhood	~defn pmap
23:18	clojurebot	Excuse me?
23:19	stuhood	phooey... what was that command
23:19	durka42	~source pmap
23:28	hiredman	ouch
23:35	stuhood	durka42: thanks!
23:51	icey	Who has the best setup docs for setting up a new machine for developing with clojure? Is it still Bill Clementson's?
23:52	arohner	icey: probably
23:53	icey	arohner: thanks!