#clojure – 2009-02-21

2009-02-21

00:06	slashus2	,#=()
00:07	slashus2	That gives me a NullPointerException
00:07	slashus2	Is that a normal behavior?
00:12	blbrown	java approach to getting a file extension from a filename, (. a substring (- (count a) 4)) anyone have a more clojure oriented approach
00:12	blbrown	where a = "MyFile.clj")
00:17	slashus2	blbrown: (seq (.split "myfile.clj" ".")) <-- I wonder why this doesn't work?
00:20	blbrown	slashus2, I normally don't include the '.' with split as I have files that have multiple '.'
00:20	slashus2	blbrown: It returns nil and I don't know why.
00:22	slashus2	blbrown: Maybe I am not seeing something obvious.
00:23	blbrown	hmm, split returns a java array. yet seq on that array returns nil
00:23	slashus2	vec does the same thing
00:23	slashus2	[]
00:23	slashus2	Not nil, but still it doesn't return the split
00:24	slashus2	blbrown: No one responded when I said that #=() threw a NullPointerException, but I am not sure why it does that.
00:25	blbrown	wrong person, I have only been getting into clojure this last month
00:26	slashus2	Java does the same thing when I run System.out.println("hello.clj".split(".").length); the length is zero.
00:26	slashus2	curious
00:26	blbrown	slashus2, oh yea, regex, escape the .
00:26	blbrown	maybe
00:26	slashus2	why?
00:26	slashus2	It isn't a regex
00:26	slashus2	it is a string
00:27	blbrown	slashus2, the dot is a regex operator
00:27	blbrown	try this. (seq (.split "myfile.clj" "\\."))
00:27	slashus2	That works ..
00:27	slashus2	OHHH split takes a regex
00:27	slashus2	feels dumb
00:27	blbrown	hehe
00:28	slashus2	Chouser: Sorry to bother you, but is #=() suppose to throw a NullPointerException?
00:28	blbrown	(last (seq (.split "myfile.clj" "\\."))) ... so I guess this would get the file extension
00:28	slashus2	yeah
00:29	slashus2	(last (.split "myfile.clj" "\\."))
00:29	slashus2	I don't think you need seq
00:29	hiredman	slashus2: why wouldn't throw an PNE?
00:29	hiredman	it
00:29	hiredman	NPE
00:30	hiredman	ugh
00:30	slashus2	I was just playing around with different reader expressions, and it surprised me.
00:30	hiredman	#=() executes whatever is inthe parens
00:30	hiredman	nothing in the parens, it tries to execute nothing, NPE
00:31	slashus2	Fair enough.
00:33	blbrown	slashus2, curious, what are you trying to do, I don't know the operators
00:33	hiredman	,(.invoke inc 1)
00:33	clojurebot	2
00:33	hiredman	,(.invoke nil 1)
00:33	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
00:33	blbrown	is that like apply, hmm
00:33	blbrown	funccall I mean
00:34	blbrown	,#=(+ 1)
00:34	clojurebot	1
00:34	slashus2	hiredman: Okay, that is pretty consistent.
00:34	blbrown	,#=(+ 1 1)
00:34	clojurebot	2
00:34	blbrown	,#=()
00:34	Chouser	,(re-find #"\.[^.]*$" "foo.bar.baz.jar")
00:34	clojurebot	".jar"
00:34	blbrown	Chouser, you like that one better
00:34	Chouser	pretty scary regex, I guess
00:35	blbrown	not really
00:35	Chouser	no, last on the one you had is good.
00:35	Chouser	,(re-find #"[^.]*$" "foo.bar.baz.jar")
00:35	Chouser	(re-find #"[^.]*$" "foo.bar.baz.jar")
00:35	clojurebot	"jar"
00:35	blbrown	,(re-find #"[^.]*$" "foo.bar.baz.jar")
00:35	clojurebot	"jar"
00:36	Chouser	I like to use the #"" literal regex when I can, but .split is fine too.
00:36	Chouser	you've solved it, move on. :-)
00:38	Chouser	? goal? have a question?
00:39	blbrown	no... I was saying put my hands in the air because we are OK with the solution "Fine ...lets move on"
00:44	hiredman	,#=()
00:44	clojurebot	nil
00:44	hiredman	hmmm
00:44	slashus2	hmm?
00:44	slashus2	What?!?
00:45	hiredman	tuning eval-in-box
01:10	nullman`	how do i do something like mapcar in clojure? ex: (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (* x 999)) '(1 2 3))
01:11	hiredman	what does mapcar do?
01:13	hiredman	,(prn 1)
01:13	clojurebot	1
01:13	hiredman	hmm
01:13	slashus2	If it existed, it may apply to the first item of every sequence given to it?
01:14	nullman`	takes the car of each element in the '(1 2 3) list and applies the lambda function to it and returns a list, result is: '(999 1998 2997)
01:14	hiredman	,#=()
01:15	hiredman	,(map #(* % 999) '(1 2 3))
01:15	clojurebot	(999 1998 2997)
01:15	nullman`	cool, i was using map differently and it was not working; thanks again
01:21	pjb3	I'm trying to create a Java object in clojure at runtime that has a method, and then call that method
01:21	pjb3	(.foo (proxy [Object] [] (foo [] "foo")))
01:22	pjb3	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: foo for class clojure.proxy.java.lang.Object
01:22	pjb3	Why doesn't that work?
01:27	hiredman	,#=()
01:27	hiredman	hmmm
01:27	hiredman	,#=()
01:29	slashus2	hiredman: What are you experimenting with?
01:39	hiredman	slashus2: clojurebot's sandbox
01:39	hiredman	I would like it if ,#=() returned the NPE exception
01:40	slashus2	okay
01:42	hiredman	cannot seem to catch reader exceptions
01:42	hiredman	:/
02:33	Chouser	http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/issues-graph.png
02:35	slashus2	I think that is good?
02:38	Chouser	many more closed than open is good
02:38	Chouser	but really it's a demo of code I'm working on -- scrape the issues page, process the data, draw a graph
02:38	slashus2	yep
02:39	Chouser	just under 95 lines, though I think I can tighten that up a bit
02:39	Chouser	but not tonight
02:40	slashus2	You just writing a BufferedImage?
02:40	Chouser	JFreeChart
02:40	Chouser	via Dejcartes
02:41	slashus2	okay, neat
02:41	Chouser	using tagsoup + zip-filter for the html scraping
08:02	Lau_of_DK	Java CP question. I have my entire program running in the namespace foo.bar.baz, and my directory structure is /project/src/foo/bar/baz.clj. Now I want to add a res / resources directory, and I want to load files from it, without having to supply absolutely paths. Where do I put it, how do I link?
10:01	Lau_of_DK	How do I use getClassLoader with Clojure-genclassed-classes ?
12:28	Lau_of_DK	package com.jme.image;
12:28	Lau_of_DK	public abstract class Texture implements Savable {
12:29	Lau_of_DK	This class com.jme.image.Texture has a public enum called MinificationFilter - How do I acces it from my Class which extends an another class ?
12:30	Chouser	com.jme.image.Texture$MinificationFilter/Trilinear
12:39	Lau_of_DK	Love you Chouser :)
12:44	blbrown	if I am running clojure as a script through the Repl main class. How do I pass args. E.g. I tried using this. command-line-args but I get nil returned
12:45	ayrnieu	blbrown - why use Repl instead of Script?
12:46	blbrown	ayrnieu, clojure.lang.Repl didn't know about Script
12:47	blbrown	is there a big difference
12:47	ayrnieu	blbrown - look at GettingStarted or somesuch on the wiki. It has a 'clj' shell script with if [ $# -eq 0 ] then; rlwrap ...; else java ... clojure.lang.Script $1 -- $@
12:47	ayrnieu	fi
12:48	ayrnieu	well, command-line-args works as you'd lke.
12:48	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: I'm very close to being able to having something to show you, but I still need a name...
12:49	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: Stop teasing me! :)
12:50	Lau_of_DK	I've almost built a 3D game in the time you took deciding on a name :)
12:50	danlarkin	haha yeah yeah yeah
12:57	blbrown	ayrnieu, still not getting my args for some reason. Here is some more code http://paste.lisp.org/display/75910 (waits for obligatory lisp code improvements)
12:58	Chouser	you need a -- after Script and before $1
12:58	blbrown	cr@p
13:00	blbrown	Chouser, you sure it isn't after the $1
13:33	blbrown	[#^java.io.File d] hmm, this is interesting. Is this a way to force type safety on args passed to a function. Just saw this in the clojure code
13:33	ayrnieu	blbrown - for efficiency, for type checking, for documentation.
13:34	blbrown	nice
13:34	blbrown	clojure = best language ever
13:36	ayrnieu	well, efficiency and documentation anyway. I can't get #^java.io.File to complain. It's a reasonable addition to the language, though.
13:39	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: I just got a 3d-landscape generated by a fractal to render quite nicely - got a name yet? :)
13:41	Chouser	right, not for type checking
13:41	ayrnieu	danlarkin, names don't bless projects so much as projects bless names. So if you make an excellent project, you can pretty much call it something absurd like 'Hutchentoot' or 'Clojure'.
13:42	Lau_of_DK	yea!
13:55	rhickey	ayrnieu: You don't like "Clojure" eh?
13:55	Lau_of_DK	uh oh
13:56	ayrnieu	rhickey - it's hard to say, I have to pretend that I don't associate it with Clojure.
13:56	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Since youre finally awake - Did you consider my request for float short-hand syntax ?
13:56	rhickey	It's worked out well, searchability alone has been great
13:57	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: what request?
13:57	danlarkin	ayrnieu: that's good advice I guess
13:58	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: My request for (class 5.0f) => float
14:00	ayrnieu	danlarkin - well, the one pitfall with names is that names can also be a form of advertisement, and advertisements tend to put blinders on people that they get really annoyed because of. So if you write the world's most perfect webserver but call it 'SDL-asteroids', people are going to tend to complain that it wasn't fun, that the graphics were bad, etc.
14:02	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: you'll never quite get that, as (class x) is a function that takes an Object, like all other functions. But (let [x 5.0f] ...) could yield a local x of primitive float type. I think the only issue is consistency - i,l,f,d - I,L,F,D? the lower case L and upper case i both have problems next to numbers IMO
14:03	danlarkin	ayrnieu: heh, yeah
14:03	Chouser	use the last letter instead of the first. Then instead of i,l,f,d you have r,g,t,e
14:03	Lau_of_DK	Of course youre right, bad example
14:03	rhickey	Chouser: intuitive :)
14:04	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: No good :)
14:04	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: If you could add it with the Caps, I'll be very happy. Im doing bindings for a 3D engine, and using almost nothing but floats :)
14:05	danlarkin	oh I have an original idea, what about adding a "type declaration" before the variable name the first time it's used, so (let [float x 5.0] ...) :)
14:05	ayrnieu	Chouser - you forgot ratio. 1.5O
14:05	rhickey	danlarkin: ick
14:06	danlarkin	the humor didn't come across there as I'd hoped it would
14:06	ayrnieu	(declare (type float x))
14:07	rhickey	It ends up it might be possible to always make (let [x 5.0] ...) a primitive double
14:07	rhickey	due to contagion
14:08	rhickey	there's not a lot of advantage to using float vs double anymore
14:08	Lau_of_DK	except when Java requires it...
14:10	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: that conversion is a separate issue
14:10	Lau_of_DK	how so?
14:14	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Here, 5.0 is always a double, but I really need floats, is there any drawbacks to providing 5.0F ?
14:21	ayrnieu	just (macrolet [f (fn [x] `(float ~x))] ... (f 5.0)) -- some assembly required.
14:22	ayrnieu	(let-type float [g 5.0 x 2.0] ...)
14:24	ayrnieu	(with-numeric-context float (blah blah blah 2.0) (blah blah 5.0))
14:35	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: as I said, I'm not opposed, but what about l and I?
14:36	Lau_of_DK	l and I?
14:36	rhickey	there you go
14:36	rhickey	el and eye
14:36	Lau_of_DK	For long/int ?
14:36	rhickey	right
14:37	Lau_of_DK	5 = int, 5.0 = double, 5.0F = float, 5.0L = long, any problems with that?
14:38	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: 5.0L is not going to be ok, 5L is, but you can't have the 5 = int default either
14:39	Lau_of_DK	Youre right about 5.0L = no go of course, but why would that compromise the int being default?
14:40	rhickey	since default operations on ints can become bigints, the int cast is required to tell me you think that's not going to happen
14:41	Lau_of_DK	Hm - Thats a little unfortunate
14:41	rhickey	(loop [x 5] ... (recur (something-that-promotes-to-bigint x))) normally works
14:43	Lau_of_DK	But does this really have to be a part of the bigger discussion? The concret situation is just, that when working with 3D, massive series of (float 255.5) become a little lengthy, so cant we start by having the F suffix only?
14:44	Chouser	rhickey: slava's most recent prodding caused me to consider if it would be a net win to cache the most recent reflection result at each call site, to try a set of 'instance?' calls first before falling back to full reflection.
14:44	Chouser	is this the kind of vortex you're trying to avoid? :-)
14:46	rhickey	Chouser: reflection has caches already. There are well-known call-site optimizations for that stuff, the invokedynamic enhancements also support that kind of work
14:46	pilkarn	hmm is it worth tryong to write an android-game in clojure? or is it gonna be too much wrapping of Java-calls only and some potential difficulties with compiling and speed?
14:47	Lau_of_DK	pilkarn: android game?
14:47	pilkarn	sorry game for the Android-phones. an shott-em-up sidecscrolelr 2d
14:47	pilkarn	shoot
14:48	pilkarn	Lau_of_DK: how is the Monkey engine stuff? is it to Java-ish to be worth ding in Clojure? or can you do a lot of stuff on top of it in Clojure?
14:48	Lau_of_DK	pilkarn: I think if you never try, you'll never know :)
14:48	Lau_of_DK	pilkarn: That initial building of the stage and generating classes is too much Javaish for my taste, but Im hoping for clear skies after that
14:49	rhickey	Chouser: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/2590ee3c75c04e91/c5c9377644096c49#c5c9377644096c49
14:51	Chouser	so, compile time fastpath rather than runtime like I just described.
14:57	rhickey	right, I think in a lot of cases the best guess will be right - this all falling out of lack of import blah.*
15:01	Chouser	because you have small set of specific classes to check
15:01	rhickey	should be in most cases
15:02	rhickey	just those with method matching name + arity
15:04	Chouser	so are you doint this, or avoiding doing it? :-)
15:04	Chouser	doing
15:05	rhickey	I'm not doing it at this moment, but I think reflection should go this way, Slava's points were more about numerics
15:06	rhickey	There, the issues have to do with local vars needin a fixed representation, as I just was saying, if an int might convert to a bigint it must be a local of Object type
15:12	Chouser	ah, sure.
15:31	pilkarn	is there an xbox-dev channel?
15:34	alinp	hi
15:35	alinp	is there a default way to create a list with a default number of elements ?
15:35	alinp	nil elements for instance
15:35	alinp	there is ... range
15:35	alinp	but it's not the one that I want
15:35	alinp	I made something like: defn create [i] (if (zero? i) () (lazy-cons nil (create (dec i)))))
15:36	Chouser	what are you going to do with that once you've made it?
15:36	alinp	is there a more elegant way for doing this ?
15:36	jochu	alinp (replicate nil 10) ?
15:36	Chouser	,(replicate 5 nil)
15:36	clojurebot	(nil nil nil nil nil)
15:36	Chouser	jochu: close :-)
15:36	jochu	right :P dyslexic
15:36	jochu	thanks
15:36	alinp	jochu: NPE
15:36	alinp	:)
15:37	alinp	ok, thanks jochu
15:37	alinp	Chouser: it's one fix that I have :)
15:37	alinp	I want to add/remove data from/to it
15:37	alinp	depending on nil values that I have there
15:38	Chouser	you can only add or remove data from one end
15:38	alinp	didn't know about replicate, nice
15:38	Chouser	of a seq or list
15:38	alinp	no, I want to already have the coll
15:38	alinp	for a fixed size
15:39	Chouser	do you want a vector? seqs and lists can only have items added or removed on one end, you can't change, add, or removed values from the middle
15:39	alinp	hmmm, ...
15:39	alinp	really ? :)
15:40	alinp	ok, if so, I'll use vectors
15:40	alinp	now I have one small strange q
15:40	alinp	,(doc replicate)
15:40	clojurebot	"([n x]); Returns a lazy seq of n xs."
15:40	alinp	xs = ?
15:40	alinp	what means xs ?
15:41	alinp	coll = collection
15:41	hiredman	Chouser: technically you cannot remove items from any clojure data structure
15:41	alinp	hiredman: I don't want to modify structures
15:42	alinp	but to have some default structure that I'll "modify" and return
15:42	alinp	I'm not mutating them
15:43	Chouser	hiredman: indeed. imagine air quotes around all such verbs.
15:43	Chouser	,(assoc (into [] (replicate 5 nil)) 2 42)
15:43	clojurebot	[nil nil 42 nil nil]
15:44	alinp	,(doc into)
15:44	clojurebot	"([to from]); Returns a new coll consisting of to-coll with all of the items of from-coll conjoined."
15:44	hiredman	Chouser: but it that cases lists are just as amendable to "modification" as vectors hashes
15:44	hiredman	just not indexed
15:49	Chouser	well, you'd use 'into' to build the vector, and then pass that around.
15:49	Chouser	creating a new vector with the nth item changed to a new value is both faster and much more convenient api-wise than changing the nth item in a seq.
15:50	alinp	yes, fair enough Chouser
15:50	alinp	thanks
15:50	drewr	So how's the lazy migration? I'm scared to start without knowing how long the investment will take.
15:50	rhickey	drewr: all done here
15:50	rhickey	:)
15:51	drewr	rhickey: Good, cuz I was worried about you. :-)
15:52	drewr	Dangit, don't make me resubscribe to that.
15:52	Chouser	I think the hardest part is test coverage to flush out all the nil puns, unless you already had unit test coverage of course.
15:53	Chouser	The second hardest is if you have complex lazy-cons usage -- I have to think a bit to correctly convert to lazy-seq. Fortunately those are pretty rare.
15:54	Lau_of_DK	Anybody know if Swank-clojure/SLIME are up to speed with Clojure yet?
15:54	drewr	Lau_of_DK: I know he's been working on it.
15:54	drewr	Haven't tried yet.
15:55	danlarkin	jochu has graced us with his presence, he could probably tell you
15:55	rhickey	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/0d05837df1efe075/36204b1134ccd1c9?hl=en#36204b1134ccd1c9
15:55	Chouser	or: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/search?group=comp.lang.lisp&q=richhickey
15:55	Chouser	:-)
15:56	Lau_of_DK	How do I use Proxy for overriding 2 or 3 methods ?
16:00	slashus2	Lau_of_DK: (name [params] body) or (name ([params] body) ([params+] body) ...)
16:00	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: example here: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/1aca89d1a53dbd1c
16:01	hiredman	~def future
16:03	hiredman	future-call has an example as well
16:03	Lau_of_DK	Thanks guys
16:07	jochu	Lau, yeah - it should be working with lazy-seqs now.
16:12	jgracin_	rhickey, any estimates on when 1.0 will be released? Is "lazier" the last major breaking change before 1.0?
16:13	jgracin_	We have pushed our Clojure code into production, so any info helps...
16:14	rhickey	jgracin_: I want to change watchers back to synchronous, but you'll be able to emulate current behavior easily, other than that, I don't think so - that's why I was working on lazier
16:15	jgracin_	rhickey: nice to hear that. thanks!
16:28	technomancy	jochu: thanks!
16:28	technomancy	so glad to hear that
16:29	hiredman	ugh, I really shouldn't read c.l.l, but it is like rubber-necking at train wreck
16:30	technomancy	hiredman: it's such a black hole
16:32	technomancy	jochu: what did you think of the idea of distributing clojure-mode with a list of "last-known-good sha1s" for each of the dependent projects?
16:32	technomancy	would have been a lot more useful if it had been implemented right before the lazy merge, but still. =)
16:36	jochu	technomancy: well, with slime also being a moving target, it still bight be a good idea. though it does mean we'd have to keep those up to date which could be a bit painful.
16:37	technomancy	jochu: if it's only slime that you're worried about, why don't you keep a github clone of slime and only push out updates once they've been tested?
16:40	technomancy	hrm; my app is failing pretty hard after pulling, but it could be vestigal lazy-conses in contrib
16:42	technomancy	shoover: on mono or the MS one?
16:43	shoover	I'm on C# 2008 Express at the moment
16:43	shoover	(MS)
16:45	fanda	hello!
16:45	fanda	just a quick note: 'last' is missing in sequences/data-structures
16:45	fanda	(on clojure.org)
16:45	Chouser	fanda: thanks
16:45	fanda	Chouser: np
16:46	technomancy	would be really nice if the source to clojure.org were available so those kinds of fixes could be submitted as patches
16:46	technomancy	just a thought
16:48	drewr	It's a third-party wiki site.
16:48	technomancy	oh, it's not kept in version control?
16:48	technomancy	how quaint. =)
16:49	drewr	It's versioned, just not in a traditional VCS. :-)
16:50	Chouser	http://clojure.org/space/changes
16:50	technomancy	gotcha
17:08	slashus2	In the current svn branch, "next" should be preferred over "rest"? If you do (rest []) it will return (), which is sort of strange, but (next []) returns nil.
17:08	slashus2	I guess rest could be preferred for certain situations.
17:09	hiredman	rest is completely lazy
17:09	hiredman	so when you need that...
17:10	slashus2	So next isn't lazy?
17:11	hiredman	I am not sure, but I think it behaves like 'rest' did in the past wiht regard to laziness
17:11	hiredman	~def next
17:12	slashus2	(time (take 5 (next (range 1000000000000000000)))) and (time (take 5 (rest (range 1000000000000000000)))) have slightly different times. rest is a little more efficient?
17:12	fanda	slashus2: read http://clojure.org/lazy
17:12	hiredman	at the very least next needs to do the work to decide to return a seq or nil
17:12	Chouser	slashus2: the differece in work there is far too small be measured by 'time'
17:13	slashus2	It isn't significant.
17:19	Chouser	,(time (let [x (next (cons 1 (lazy-seq (do (Thread/sleep 2000) nil))))]))
17:19	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 2001.322 msecs"
17:19	Chouser	,(time (let [x (rest (cons 1 (lazy-seq (do (Thread/sleep 2000) nil))))]))
17:19	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.556 msecs"
17:19	cp2	woah
17:20	cp2	oh, nevermind
17:23	slashus2	,(time (let [x (rest (cons 1 (lazy-seq (do (Thread/sleep 2000) nil))))] x))
17:23	clojurebot	()
17:23	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.596 msecs"
17:24	slashus2	When I ran that on my computer, it printed the time, waited about 2 seconds and then did ()
17:26	clojurebot	svn rev 1299; improved Maven integration [issue 70], patch from hlship
17:27	slashus2	Why does it behave that way?
17:28	hiredman	because, when printint a lazy seq you hvae to realize it
17:28	slashus2	So time doesn't really work correctly in that situation?
17:28	hiredman	no
17:29	hiredman	the step of the repl printing the result is not included in time
17:30	technomancy	slashus2: you're timing the creation of the lazy sequence, not the realization of it.
17:31	slashus2	Looking at it at first, I would think that it would time everything inside of time.
17:31	hiredman	it does
17:31	technomancy	right; the only thing inside time in the construction of the lazy sequence
17:32	technomancy	the whole point of lazy-seq is that it's cheap to create
17:32	Chouser	,(let [x (time #(Thread/sleep 2000))] (x))
17:32	technomancy	it's only when it's used that the slowdown occurs
17:32	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.425 msecs"
17:32	hiredman	the realization of the lazy seq doesn't happen until the repl prints it out
17:32	technomancy	slashus2: put it in a def and it won't take any time at all
17:32	technomancy	until you try to print the def'd var
17:46	robnik	(let [syms (map symbol (seq (.split "a,b,c,d" ",")))]
17:46	robnik	(printf "syms: %s\n" syms))
17:46	robnik	That prints... syms: clojure.core$map__3719$fn__3721@9a965e88
17:47	hiredman	and?
17:47	robnik	How does one make it print: (a b c d).
17:47	robnik	I know I can call (apply list syms) or something...
17:47	hiredman	,(print '(a b c d))
17:48	clojurebot	(a b c d)
17:48	robnik	... but I'm wondering if there is a standard way to convert that lazy map thing to a something printable.
17:48	hiredman	,(doc printf)
17:48	clojurebot	"([fmt & args]); Prints formatted output, as per format"
17:48	hiredman	,(doc format)
17:48	clojurebot	"([fmt & args]); Formats a string using java.lang.String.format, see java.util.Formatter for format string syntax"
17:49	hiredman	,(str '(a b c d))
17:49	clojurebot	"(a b c d)"
17:49	hiredman	the problem is you are telling printf that syms is a string
17:49	hiredman	but it isn't
17:50	hiredman	wrap syms with (str ...)
17:50	hiredman	or don't use printf
17:51	hiredman	,(println "syms: " '(a b c d))
17:51	clojurebot	syms: (a b c d)
17:51	robnik	%s tells Formatter to call .toString. Same with (str syms) I think.
17:52	robnik	Yeah, println works.
17:53	hiredman	~def str
17:53	cp2	hiredman, i like this new ~def command
17:53	cp2	nice addition
17:53	hiredman	yes
17:53	hiredman	very useful
17:53	hiredman	maybe it was AWizzArd who suggested it?
17:53	hiredman	I forget
17:55	hiredman	robnik: str is not the same thing as calling .toString
17:56	robnik	In my original code snippet changing syms to (seq syms) also makes it print (a b c d).
17:57	robnik	Okay, I see the str definition. Thank you.
17:57	hiredman	that is because map returns a lazy-seq
17:58	robnik	okay
17:58	hiredman	and lazy-seqs are secretly functions
17:58	hiredman	so println was just calling .toString on a function
17:59	hiredman	,(map inc (range 2))
17:59	clojurebot	(1 2)
17:59	hiredman	grrr
17:59	hiredman	,(ref (map inc (range 2)))
17:59	clojurebot	#<Ref@bb9f5b: (1 2)>
17:59	hiredman	bah
18:00	Chouser	,(let [syms (map symbol (seq (.split "a,b,c,d" ",")))] (printf "syms: %s\n" (seq syms)))
18:00	clojurebot	syms: (a b c d)
18:02	robnik	,(let [syms (map symbol (seq (.split "a,b,c,d" ",")))] (printf "syms: %s\n" syms))
18:02	clojurebot	syms: clojure.core$map__3719$fn__3721@9a965e88
18:02	Chouser	,(str (lazy-seq '(a b c d)))
18:02	clojurebot	"sandbox$eval__2873$fn__2875@9a965e88"
18:02	Chouser	,(str (seq (lazy-seq '(a b c d))))
18:02	clojurebot	"(a b c d)"
18:03	robnik	So... does (seq x) when x is lazy make x non-lazy?
18:06	technomancy	,(def a-lazy-seq (map identity [1 2 3]))
18:06	clojurebot	DENIED
18:06	technomancy	,(let [a-lazy-seq (map identity [1 2 3])] (identical? a-lazy-seq (seq a-lazy-seq)))
18:06	clojurebot	false
18:07	technomancy	oh snap!
18:07	technomancy	robnik: anyway, the answer is no.
18:07	robnik	thanks.
18:10	slashus2	,(class (seq (map identity [1 2 3])))
18:10	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Cons
18:11	technomancy	why isn't that LazyCons?
18:12	slashus2	I don't understand why it doesn't have $Seq at the end.
18:12	hiredman	most likely map's lazy-seq yields a value cons'ed onto another lazy-seq
18:13	hiredman	~def map
18:13	robnik	Thanks for the help, but I'm losing my connection. Doh.
18:14	robnik	Hopefully I can find a chat log somewhere later.
18:14	hiredman	clojurebot: logs?
18:14	clojurebot	logs is http://clojure-log.n01se.net/
18:15	hiredman	technomancy: I think LazyCons maybe gone
18:16	Chouser	LazyCons is gone
18:17	technomancy	so regular conses can be lazy now?
18:17	Chouser	and lazy-seqs a weird thing compared to the classes and objects Clojure's had before
18:17	hiredman	svn rev 1295
18:17	Chouser	calling seq on a lazy-seq only forces one step -- the rest can still be lazy
18:18	technomancy	Chouser: ah, of course
18:18	Chouser	,(class (lazy-seq [1 2]))
18:18	clojurebot	sandbox$eval__2891$fn__2893
18:19	Chouser	lazy-seq returns a fn, as you can see there
18:19	Chouser	but it's a fn that implements ISeq
18:19	Chouser	,(instance? clojure.lang.ISeq (lazy-seq [1 2]))
18:19	clojurebot	true
18:20	Chouser	,(parents (class (lazy-seq [1 2])))
18:20	clojurebot	#{clojure.lang.LazySeq}
18:22	technomancy	thanks for the explanation.
18:57	gnuvince_	Hello
18:57	rhickey	hey
18:59	gnuvince_	I'm definitely gonna apply there
19:01	gnuvince_	Raynes: work out?
19:01	Raynes	Programmers should /never/ under any circumstances do hard work.
19:01	Raynes	gnuvince_: No, cleaning out ratchewed mess that has been gathering in the garage since 1991.
19:02	Raynes	Lot's of shoveling of gravel.
19:03	gnuvince_	Raynes: no automatic garbage collection for that, eh?
19:03	Raynes	gnuvince_: No, :\|
19:04	gnuvince_	Raynes: do you do regular exercise?
19:04	Raynes	gnuvince_: No, but that changes now, I'm already in so much pain from the last 2 days that I might as well work it out. I'll be helping my uncle pull a motor out of a car tomorrow.
19:06	gnuvince_	ok
19:07	gnuvince_	To save me the morning traffic, I go swim 3 times a week and work out in a gym 2 times a week
19:08	Raynes	gnuvince_: I don't have those options. The closest Gym is around 22 or 60 miles from here. Gas money isn't cheap.
19:08	gnuvince_	Raynes: you live in a rural area?
19:09	Raynes	gnuvince_: Alabama. About as rural as it gets.
19:10	gnuvince_	Raynes: I'm in a pretty rural region too, but I work in the big town of the area, so that's why I have this possibility.
19:10	gnuvince_	Not having access to a bunch of services is sometimes a hassle, but I generally think the peace of the place is worth more.
19:27	gnuvince_	How do you only see the changes in HEAD with git log?
19:30	Chouser	git show
19:30	Chouser	or is that not what you mean?
19:31	gnuvince_	Looks like it
19:54	schoppenhauer	Is it possible to make a (proxy [x] [] ...) where x is a Class-Object rather than a Symbol?
19:55	hiredman	,(class string)
19:55	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: string in this context
19:55	hiredman	,(class String)
19:55	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
19:56	schoppenhauer	Hm... Strange
19:57	schoppenhauer	hiredman: whats then wrong with (proxy [(. Class forName "java.lang.String")] [] (bla []))
19:57	schoppenhauer	,(bla)
19:57	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: bla in this context
19:58	schoppenhauer	,(. Class forName "java.lang.String")
19:58	clojurebot	java.lang.String
19:58	rhickey	schoppenhauer: proxy is a macro and operates on names, not values
19:58	schoppenhauer	ah.
19:58	schoppenhauer	rhickey: so will quoting do the job?
19:59	rhickey	schoppenhauer: nope - proxy is not a runtime-reflective API, same as all of the interop.
20:00	eyeris	Is there a std function that is the opposite of slurp?
20:00	schoppenhauer	rhickey: wah.
20:00	schoppenhauer	rhickey: why?
20:00	rhickey	schoppenhauer: what are you trying to do?
20:01	rhickey	schoppenhauer: why in general is that Clojure is supposed to be a fast, compiled language
20:01	schoppenhauer	rhickey: actually, I didnt like the fact that it is not possible to create a bean (or interface or whatever) on runtime. so at the moment i am trying to write something to do this.
20:01	rhickey	on Runtime?
20:01	schoppenhauer	rhickey: yes
20:02	schoppenhauer	rhickey: at least in /theory/ it should be possible. With the javax.util.JavaCompiler- and ClassLoader-API, for example
20:02	rhickey	schoppenhauer: you can just use the reflection API
20:02	schoppenhauer	rhickey: i can create interfaces, but unfortunately, i cannot proxify them :(
20:03	schoppenhauer	rhickey: no. i cannot define new interfaces with the reflection API as far as I know
20:04	rhickey	schoppenhauer: still not sure what you want - Runtime exists and is accessible, what would an interface add?
20:05	rhickey	proxy is about instantiating interfaces, not creating them
20:05	schoppenhauer	rhickey: i think we are talking about different things ;-) - yesterday I had the problem that StringTemplate wants a Bean for some stuff, and I couldnt create one with clojure without compiling a whole source... So ok, meanwhile I have a workaround for this, but its in general not good not to be able to do something.
20:06	rhickey	schoppenhauer: well, you can with genclass, but you don't want to?
20:06	schoppenhauer	rhickey: yes. ok. I can create interfaces... But I get them in Class-Objects... And therefore I cannot pass them to proxy
20:06	schoppenhauer	rhickey: genclass works only when I use (compile '...) as far as I have read
20:08	rhickey	schoppenhauer: there's a reason for that - all this Java class stuff is static. You create instances with names and can use the names to instantiate/proxy, no?
20:08	rhickey	interfaces with names
20:08	schoppenhauer	hm... i dont know. there are things like ClassLoader, etc.
20:08	schoppenhauer	(i use them - though i dont really understand them yet ^^)
20:09	schoppenhauer	that is you can load new absract classes ("interfaces")
20:09	schoppenhauer	rhickey: ah... is it somehow possible to pass something like lambda-form (like a Runnable or whatever) to a Java-Method from Clojure? This would solve all my problems I think.
20:10	hiredman	ha ha
20:10	hiredman	schoppenhauer: all clojure functions are Runnable
20:10	rhickey	schoppenhauer: all fns are Runnable and Callable
20:10	hiredman	and Callable
20:10	schoppenhauer	Ah, so I can pass them to a java-method expecting a Runnable?
20:10	rhickey	yup
20:10	schoppenhauer	ah wonderful
20:11	schoppenhauer	Thank you.
20:11	rhickey	sure
20:12	schoppenhauer	dont misunderstand me: clojure is fine as it is. it is just... not "beautiful" to explicitly have to compile files...
20:12	schoppenhauer	at least to me it is not
20:14	rhickey	schoppenhauer: agreed - that's a Java thing, classes are not dynamic insofar as you get one shot to load them per classloader, also they need to be in classpath for other Java stuff to see them, so best not to pretend here and accept that Java is less dynamic than Lisp/Clojure
20:15	schoppenhauer	rhickey: ok. but it is fun to implement something like this anyway ;-)
20:16	schoppenhauer	rhickey: as a library for people who dont care about speed ^^
20:16	zakwilson	Java isn't very dynamic? The horror! Someone should write a Lisp dialect for the JVM.
20:17	schoppenhauer	rhickey: hm... i cant find it in the java-interop-documentation: can I pass arguments from java to the lambda-forms passed to Java? Callable and Runnable doesnt have this.
20:18	rhickey	schoppenhauer: are you not interoperating with code that takes Callable/Runnable? Or do you just need to call a Clojure fn from Java?
20:21	schoppenhauer	rhickey: I can define a Proxy for an instantly-generated Interface using the reflection-api. I can generate it to get runnables which are called by the methods (runnables from clojure i.e.). But when a method of that interface is called, it maybe gets additional Arguments. How can I pass them to the given functions (yes, I think I want to call Clojure from Jav)
20:23	rhickey	Clojure fns implement clojure.lang.IFn, which has invoke() with various arities
20:26	schoppenhauer	ah thank you
20:27	schoppenhauer	wah. its ... late ... good nigth
20:32	digash`	(add-remote-javadoc "" "http://www.google.com/search?btnI=I%27m%20Feeling%20Lucky&q=allinurl:")
20:32	digash`	(javadoc String)
20:33	digash`	works pretty good with any java class.
20:44	Chouser	cure
20:44	Chouser	er, cute
20:46	digash`	Chouser: yea, i got tired of listing all of the links.
20:46	ayrnieu	who's http://sardakcode.blogspot.com/2009/02/my-first-clojure-macro-inspired-by.html ? Does he come here?
20:49	hiredman	~seen sardak
20:49	clojurebot	no, I have not seen sardak
21:21	Chrononaut	is tab-completion in the slime repl supposed to work?
21:22	gnuvince_	Chrononaut: yes.
21:23	Chrononaut	hm, i get this error each time i hit tab: "funcall: Synchronous Lisp Evaluation aborted"
21:24	Chrononaut	my tab key is bound to slime-indent-and-complete-symbol btw
21:25	gnuvince_	Chrononaut: there were some changes in swank-clojure recently to deal with the new lazy seqs in Clojure itself. Make sure that Clojure, clojure-mode and swank-clojure are up to date.
21:26	Chrononaut	ah, now it works. i had to comment out some stuff from my common lisp-catered slime config
21:26	Chrononaut	related to fuzzy completion
21:27	gnuvince_	Chrononaut: are you a CLer?
21:28	Chrononaut	well not really, i've just played around a bit in cl before. mostly related to university coursework
21:29	Chrononaut	i love lisp though
21:32	gnuvince_	How do you like Clojure so far?
21:35	Chrononaut	i've only watched the 'clojure for lisp programmers'-talk and written hello-world kind of stuff, but I'm enjoying it so far
21:36	Chrononaut	i especially like the first-class reader support for maps and vectors
21:36	gnuvince_	cool :)
22:17	rryan	does swank-clojure work with the lazy-seq updates now?
22:17	gnuvince_	rryan: it does here
22:19	rryan	cool -- ill update then
23:45	digash`	hmm, just found a bug in my code that was hard to find due to the string and multiargs
23:45	digash`	,(String/format "%s" (into-array "abc"))
23:45	clojurebot	"a"
23:45	digash`	but meant this
23:45	digash`	,(String/format "%s" (into-array ["abc"]))
23:45	clojurebot	"abc"
23:52	Chouser	,(format "%s" "abc")
23:52	clojurebot	"abc"
23:52	Chouser	But I don't know if that makes the whole thing less or more confusing.
23:53	digash`	i was trying to distil the example of much more convoluted code that i had
23:53	Chouser	:-)
23:53	Chouser	ok
23:54	Chouser	I don't know what could have helped you though -- what would you want?
23:55	digash`	I had something more like (map #(Grid. (into-array %)) args)
23:55	digash`	args were just a string instead of list of strings
23:59	digash`	i am not sure what would've helped me here, but it was hard to find since it worked but returned some weird results.