#clojure – 2009-02-17

2009-02-17

00:01	Chouser	I like "don't be so eager", but the logo placement on the front is kinda lame.
00:01	blbrown	yea, kind of right there at the stomach
00:02	Chouser	maybe it should only be on the back
00:03	durka42	yeah that one might be better if the logo was moved to the back
00:03	Chouser	maybe swap the text too?
00:04	durka42	eh, i dunno
00:06	Chouser	put another way, that account has almost (but not quite) earned a free shirt.
00:06	Chouser	this is really not an effective money-making venture. :-)
00:06	blbrown	if you are creating them, you might just have a simple one. clojure logo on the front and then a description on the back. Clojure, lisp dialect for the JVM or something
00:06	hiredman	like the /topic
00:07	blbrown	yea
00:14	cp2	23:50:36 [Chouser] So far we've sold 7, so Zazzle owes Rich almost $20.
00:14	cp2	never fear
00:14	cp2	im about to buy a few
00:15	Chouser	ooh
00:15	cp2	possibly tomorrow
00:15	durka42	it is tomorrow here...
00:15	durka42	which means i should probably go to bed soon
00:15	cp2	well, its tomorrow here too
00:15	cp2	didnt notice
00:15	Chouser	well, as I said, it's not really about making money. I just hope the quality of the T-shirts is good -- I haven't actually seen one yet.
00:16	cp2	ill let you know
00:17	Chouser	http://www.zazzle.com/i_get_more_done_when_im_lazy_clojure_on_back_tshirt-235284015952434496
00:17	Chouser	better?
00:17	hiredman	there isn't some api function that takes a function and changes the order of paramters is there?
00:18	Chouser	#() :-)
00:18	hiredman	:(
00:18	hiredman	#(fn [& x] (apply % (reverse x)))
00:19	hiredman	,((#(fn [& x] (apply % (reverse x))) map) (range 10) inc)
00:19	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)
00:19	hiredman	,((#(fn [& x] (apply % (reverse x))) map) (range 10) (range 9 20) +)
00:19	clojurebot	(9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 27)
00:20	Chouser	,(#(% %3 %2) map (range 10) inc)
00:20	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)
00:20	hiredman	clever
00:20	Chouser	oh, you want them all reversed. hm.
00:20	hiredman	I am willing to take what I can get
00:21	Chouser	,(#(apply % (reverse %&)) map (range 10) (range 9 20) +)
00:21	clojurebot	(9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 27)
00:21	ayrnieu	,(#(fn [f & rst] (apply f (reverse rst))) list 1 2 3)
00:21	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--1021$fn
00:22	hiredman	anyway, I can write it fine, I just was hoping something like that existed in the api and I just missed it
00:23	Chouser	no, Clojure core isn't actually terribly rich function-manipulation functions.
00:23	Chouser	I don't miss them personally.
00:23	hiredman	:(
00:24	hiredman	clojure.higher-order-functions
00:24	Chouser	isn't any fn that takes a fn as an arg higher-order?
00:24	Chouser	we've got plenty that take predicates or mapping fns or whatever.
00:24	ayrnieu	yes, you're thinking of clojure.combinators
00:25	hiredman	pardon my mistake
00:25	Chouser	it's the ones that return fns that are less common: comp, complement
00:25	hiredman	partial
00:25	hiredman	constantly
00:25	hiredman	memoize?
00:25	silkarn	multimethods, arent they just calling one function that handles dispatch ?
00:25	Chouser	not to be confused with clojure.contrib.combinatorics. :-)
00:26	ayrnieu	silkarn - yes.
00:26	ayrnieu	defmulti examples: http://paste.lisp.org/display/74647
00:26	Chouser	identity
00:26	Chouser	;-)
00:29	hiredman	I think what draws me to point free style is not having to think up argument names
00:29	hiredman	(I always just pick i or x anyway)
00:29	durka42	or %
00:30	durka42	sometimes point-free is nice when you can see how the fns logically connect
00:30	durka42	but when it gets really convoluted maybe it should just be written out...
00:41	silkarn	scheme > clojure?
00:41	hiredman	uh
00:41	durka42	nil
00:41	hiredman	no?
00:41	durka42	,(> 'scheme 'clojure)
00:41	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
00:41	silkarn	, (> scheme clojure)
00:41	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: scheme in this context
00:42	Chouser	java.lang.ClassCastException: scheme cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
00:42	ayrnieu	http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2009/2/17/programming-clojure-beta-7-is-out
00:42	hiredman	,(let [ton #(apply + (map int %)] (> (ton "scheme") (ton "clojure")))
00:42	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: ]
00:43	hiredman	,(let [ton #(apply + (map int %))] (> (ton "scheme") (ton "clojure")))
00:43	clojurebot	false
00:43	hiredman	:)
00:43	durka42	,(let [ton #(apply + (map int %))] (vec (ton "scheme") (ton "clojure")))
00:43	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$vec
00:43	durka42	,(let [ton #(apply + (map int %))] (list (ton "scheme") (ton "clojure")))
00:43	clojurebot	(629 756)
00:44	ayrnieu	silkarn, it depends on what you're interested in.
00:48	hiredman	...
00:48	technomancy	if you're interested in implementing a lisp for fun, scheme is probably a better choice.
00:50	blbrown	is the book going to be updated per the new clojure language changes I wonder
00:50	ayrnieu	blbrown, RTFA.
00:50	technomancy	blbrown: stuart said as long as it's decided this week it should make it into the book
00:52	blbrown	ayrnieu, it doesnt say anything about examples in the book
00:52	ayrnieu	I'd actually recommend clojure for the 'language for fun', over scheme, but call/cc seems more intimidating than thread pools and STM.
00:53	ayrnieu	it's hard to say that you'd end up with 'clojure', though. You'd have a 'clojure-like', a pointless designator in scheme.
00:53	durka42	point-free you mean
00:54	cooldude127	scheme has simpler syntax then clojure
00:54	technomancy	yeah, my scheme never got call/cc. =\
00:56	hiredman	cooldude127: did you notice my sublis?
00:57	cooldude127	hiredman: no i did not
00:58	cooldude127	hiredman: found it in the history
00:58	hiredman	it uses my transform function, to which there is a link a few lines back from the sublis
00:59	hiredman	and the both rely on clojure.zip :as zip
00:59	technomancy	do many people use the tests-with-code approach of test-is?
00:59	cooldude127	technomancy: i do
00:59	cooldude127	hiredman: i appreciate the effort, but i actually think i have a straightforward recursive solution
00:59	hiredman	bah
01:00	hiredman	zippers, dude, zippers
01:00	cooldude127	are more than what is necessary for this problem
01:04	lisppaste8	cooldude127 annotated #75625 "simpler" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75625#1
01:07	hiredman	,(vec {:a 1})
01:07	clojurebot	[[:a 1]]
01:08	hiredman	,((comp vec concat) {:a 1})
01:08	clojurebot	[[:a 1]]
03:46	Raynes	Has anyone made a Clojure wallpaper?
03:54	eevar2	how about t-shirts and coffee mugs? ;)
03:55	Raynes	Wallpapers are more important to me right now.
03:57	gregh	putting a t-shirt over your screen makes your screen hard to read
04:00	AWizzArd	Moin
04:02	Raynes	Someone make me a wallpaper :>
04:05	gregh	you could scale up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clojure-glyph.svg
04:07	Chousuke	that logo alone gives Clojure a +10 boost to coolness.
04:47	Raynes	New beta of Programming Clojure released. Content complete, last beta before publish.
04:54	Raynes	I wonder if he rewrote the seq chapter. I suppose he would of had to due to the lazy stuff now.
05:12	Raynes	Someone /really/ needs to talk to Rich about read-line
05:12	Raynes	It's still screwed up.
05:15	Raynes	read-line is completely redefined in the newest revisions. The release version works though.
05:16	Raynes	Wonder why he changed it.
05:22	Raynes	What's the Clojurebot command to check the current SVN revision?
05:24	Raynes	clojurebot: svn?
05:24	clojurebot	svn is http://clojure.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/
05:33	Raynes	>:]
05:36	eevar2	clojurebot: git?
05:36	clojurebot	git is http://www.github.com
05:37	Raynes	clojurebot: hiredman
05:37	clojurebot	hiredman is The Batman
05:51	timothypratley	user=> (clojure.inspector/inspect "fun")
05:51	timothypratley	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.inspector (NO_SOURCE_FILE:157)
05:52	timothypratley	am I missing something?
05:56	Raynes	A file apparently.
05:56	Raynes	,(clojure.inspector/inspect "fun")
05:56	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.inspector
05:57	Raynes	Hrm
05:57	alinp	timothypratley: (use 'clojure.inspector)
05:58	alinp	and after that, it will work
05:58	timothypratley	indeed! thanks
05:58	alinp	yw
05:58	timothypratley	zip doesn't appear to need use... what's the distinction?
05:58	alinp	maybe because it's using some swing, it's not loaded by default
05:58	alinp	(imho)
05:58	timothypratley	ic
05:59	alinp	inspector and one more is not loaded by default
05:59	alinp	"All namespaces are loaded by the runtime except clojure.inspector, clojure.parallel"
05:59	alinp	:)
05:59	alinp	http://clojure.org/api
06:00	timothypratley	hehehe
06:00	Raynes	alinp: You... You.. API reader!
06:01	alinp	:)
06:01	alinp	Raynes: Me ... Me ... What ? :)
06:01	alinp	I don't get it :P
06:01	Raynes	You read the API. That makes you an API reader :\|
06:01	alinp	lol
06:02	alinp	The fact is that I had the same problem in the past
06:02	alinp	and I checked the API
06:02	alinp	and saw what's going on
06:02	Chousuke	hmm
06:02	Chousuke	,(use 'clojure.inspector)
06:02	clojurebot	nil
06:03	Chousuke	not very useful though ;(
06:03	alinp	yes, indeed
06:03	Chousuke	,(clojure.inspector/inspect ['test])
06:03	clojurebot	java.awt.HeadlessException: No X11 DISPLAY variable was set, but this program performed an operation which requires it.
06:03	alinp	but if the namespace is not there, exception will be thrown
06:03	alinp	the inspect will open a swing window
06:03	alinp	in which the inspection is displayed
06:04	Chousuke	yeah, I wanted to see what happens :)
06:04	timothypratley	okie here's a harder one: say I have a zipper, and I want to call 'right' X times, what's a neat way? (take X (repeatedly #(right loc)))? or a better way?
06:04	alinp	maybe this can be skipped and reduced only to console ... don't know for sure
06:05	alinp	timothypratley: sorry, that's out of my knowledge about clojure ... I'm at the beginning of learning it
06:06	Chousuke	wouldn't (right loc) always return the same thing :/
06:06	Chousuke	wait, I need to check how repeatedly works
06:07	Chousuke	hm
06:07	Chousuke	right
06:07	Chousuke	you want (take n (iterate right loc)), assuming (right loc) returns a new loc
06:07	timothypratley	ah, that's nicer :) yes thanks
06:11	Chousuke	what kind of format? :)
06:12	Raynes	INI probably. Just a simple config parser.
06:14	alinp	is there in clojure something like progn ?
06:15	alinp	progn from clisp
06:15	alinp	let seems to be working this way
06:15	alinp	,(let [] "x" "y" "z")
06:15	clojurebot	"z"
06:16	alinp	,(let [] (+ 1 2) (+ 10 20) (+ 100 200))
06:16	clojurebot	300
06:16	alinp	,(let [] (println (+ 1 2)) (println (+ 10 20)) (+ 100 200))
06:16	clojurebot	300
06:16	clojurebot	3 30
06:16	Chousuke	why the lets? :/
06:16	Chousuke	there's do :)
06:17	alinp	oh, thanks :)
06:17	alinp	that's why I asked
06:17	Chousuke	ah, right. missed the question itself.
06:17	alinp	didn't know if it's a better way
06:17	Chousuke	,(do (println "foo") 2)
06:17	clojurebot	2
06:17	clojurebot	foo
06:17	alinp	,(do (println (+ 1 2)) (println (+ 10 20)) (+ 100 200))
06:17	clojurebot	300
06:17	clojurebot	3 30
06:17	timothypratley	its annoying that (do) is not in the API page
06:18	Chousuke	it's a special form, isn't it.
06:18	timothypratley	only on the special forms
06:18	timothypratley	yup
06:18	timothypratley	but let is in both :) so why not do?
06:18	Chousuke	the API page is autogenerated I think.
06:19	Chousuke	and let is not actually a built-in special form (it's a macro)
06:19	timothypratley	I guess let has some special quality... according to doc, let qualifies as a macro and a special, but do is only a special
06:19	timothypratley	,(doc let)
06:19	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); Evaluates the exprs in a lexical context in which the symbols in the binding-forms are bound to their respective init-exprs or parts therein."
06:19	alinp	,(doc do)
06:19	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: do in this context
06:19	Chousuke	,(doc let*)
06:19	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: let* in this context
06:20	alinp	,(doc do*)
06:20	Chousuke	let* is the special form I guess.
06:20	timothypratley	wierd, I can do it at my repl
06:20	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: do* in this context
06:20	Chousuke	,(let* [a 1] a)
06:20	clojurebot	1
06:20	timothypratley	:)
06:20	Chousuke	~source let
06:20	alinp	,(let [a 1] a)
06:20	clojurebot	1
06:20	alinp	Chousuke: what's the difference between macro and special form ?
06:20	alinp	general clojure speaking
06:21	Chousuke	hmmh
06:21	Raynes	alinp: A macro is a macro and a special form is a special form ;)
06:21	Chousuke	nothing user-visible.
06:21	alinp	the results seems to be the same
06:21	Chousuke	a special form is "built-in"
06:21	Chousuke	so let* is a special form, let is not
06:21	alinp	yes, I got that
06:21	alinp	thanks
06:22	Chousuke	but let* is an implementation detail, so the docs lie a bit and call let the special form
06:25	Chousuke	(defmacro comment [& body]) ; heh
06:42	eevar2	,(doc let)
06:42	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); Evaluates the exprs in a lexical context in which the symbols in the binding-forms are bound to their respective init-exprs or parts therein."
06:42	eevar2	,(doc let*)
06:42	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: let* in this context
06:47	rsynnott	I think clojure's let behaves much like cl's let* anyway
07:22	Raynes	I has a Satin pillowcase.
07:36	Raynes	Speaking of Rich, there are a lot of him in here o.o
07:40	karmazilla	One Rich for trunk, and then a couple for the branches
07:44	Raynes	karmazilla: :D
08:25	alinp	,(println "x" "z")
08:26	clojurebot	x z
08:26	alinp	how can this be done without the white space ?
08:26	alinp	,(println "x""z")
08:26	clojurebot	x z
08:26	karmazilla	,(println (str "x" "z"))
08:26	clojurebot	xz
08:27	alinp	,(println (str "a" "b"))
08:27	clojurebot	ab
08:28	Raynes	Rayne has a tummy ache :[
09:01	Raynes	Why is this returning false? (if (and (or (and (false? false) (true? false) true false) (true? true)) (identical? [1 2 3] [1 2 3])) true false)
09:03	Raynes	,(if (and (or (and (false? false) (true? false) true false) (true? true)) (identical? [1 2 3] [1 2 3])) true false)
09:03	clojurebot	false
09:03	Raynes	Hrm, that just isn't right.
09:05	rfgpfeiffer	,(doc identical?)
09:05	clojurebot	"([x y]); Tests if 2 arguments are the same object"
09:05	Raynes	,(identical? [1 2 3] [1 2 3])
09:05	clojurebot	false
09:05	Raynes	OH
09:06	rfgpfeiffer	,(= [1 2 3] [1 2 3])
09:06	clojurebot	true
09:06	Raynes	Mystery solved.
09:39	cooldude127	i have to say, functions needing to be defined before they are referenced is pretty much the most annoying thing to me about clojure
09:41	cooldude127	i suppose it's good that something so small is my biggest complaint
09:43	gnuvince	cooldude127: yeah. I like that in Haskell, you can put the most important functions at the top, and the supporting ones below.
09:47	cooldude127	gnuvince: the way i like to write, i'll do the big function first, and while i'm writing it, i'll write it as tho those helper functions are already defined. and then i go below and actually write them. and then when i compile the whole file it says NO
09:48	cooldude127	i hate having to mess around with the ordering
09:48	cooldude127	but alas, i most go
09:48	Chouser	that's so interesting. It's never bothered me, and the thought of using a function before I write it kinda freaks me out.
09:50	wlr	Chouser: SOP for many CLers
09:50	Chouser	apparently
09:52	Raynes	I have a habit of defining helper functions below the functions that use them.
09:52	Raynes	It is rather annoying.
10:03	kefka	Is anyone else having problems with S3 this morning?
10:03	drewr	kefka: My backup to there just ran fine.
10:05	kefka	drewr: I'm getting this error: (home)/private/current/awssecret: No such file or directory
10:06	kefka	drewr: Do I need to have a ~/private/current ? I've never had that directory before.
10:07	drewr	kefka: What produced that error?
10:08	kefka	drewr: Never mind. This has nothing to do with S3. It's a local problem.
10:09	kefka	S3 is working fine.
10:19	Lau_of_DK	kefka: drewr: Whats S3 ?
10:21	Raynes	I was wondering the same thing.
10:22	Fib	Amazon S3? The storage service?
10:23	drewr	Lau_of_DK: http://s3.amazonaws.com
10:26	Lau_of_DK	k
10:26	Lau_of_DK	thanks
11:16	alinp	what's the clojure way to iterate over a collection ?
11:16	alinp	is there a recommended approach ?
11:16	Chouser	map, for, doseq
11:17	Chouser	depends on what you want to do as you iterate over it.
11:17	alinp	ok, cool
11:17	Chouser	loop/recur
11:17	alinp	yes, I know about recur
11:17	Chouser	filter, reduce. lots of options. :-)
11:17	alinp	this is the one that I'm using
11:17	alinp	yes, depends on what I need to do with that collection
11:17	Chouser	theres usually only one or two good choices though, for any given usage.
11:18	alinp	thanks
11:20	Chouser	sure
11:25	AWizzArd	clojurebot: max people
11:25	clojurebot	max people is 149
11:25	alinp	Chouser: I'm wondering ...
11:25	alinp	,(loop [a 10] (if (not (zero? a)) (do (println a) (recur (dec a)))))
11:25	clojurebot	10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
11:25	alinp	this is the right usage of loop ?
11:25	alinp	:)
11:26	AWizzArd	in principle yes
11:26	AWizzArd	for this task one could do something different though
11:26	alinp	like ?
11:26	AWizzArd	,(dotimes [i 10] (println (- 10 i)))
11:26	clojurebot	10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
11:26	alinp	oh, I see
11:26	alinp	dotimes
11:26	alinp	gracias :)
11:27	AWizzArd	,(doseq [i (range 10)] (println (- 10 i)))
11:27	clojurebot	10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
11:27	alinp	but the idea was that I want to check the iteration over collections
11:27	alinp	and to see which are the diffs between them
11:27	WizardofWestmarc	,(take 10 (iterate dec 10))
11:27	clojurebot	(10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)
11:28	WizardofWestmarc	though that's a list, but still <_<
11:28	alinp	thank you, I'll check the API further
11:30	AWizzArd	or okay, for this specfic task the best thing would be:
11:30	AWizzArd	,'(10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)
11:30	clojurebot	(10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)
11:31	AWizzArd	uhm, with println of course
11:31	AWizzArd	,(println 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)
11:31	clojurebot	10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
11:31	alinp	:)
11:32	alinp	not the same thing
11:32	alinp	instead of printing, I was thinking applying a function or something
11:32	alinp	of course, there is apply, I know
11:32	AWizzArd	yes, or reduce also
11:33	AWizzArd	sometimes that could also be nice
11:33	WizardofWestmarc	reduce is for lumping a list of stuff together into a single item
11:33	AWizzArd	,(apply + [10 20 30])
11:33	clojurebot	60
11:33	AWizzArd	,(reduce + [10 20 30])
11:33	clojurebot	60
11:34	rsynnott	that's because the >2 arg + does an effective reduce itself, though
11:40	AWizzArd	yes
11:42	Chouser	alinp: I made an attempt to categorize the various seq-related functions on the bottom half of this page: http://clojure.org/sequences
11:43	alinp	oh, yes, I see
11:43	alinp	thanks again
11:43	alinp	It seems to me that I'm too lazy to search myself all the stuff
11:43	Chouser	I don't know if that's helpful or not, but it was an attempt to help people find the function they need.
11:43	alinp	yes yes
11:43	alinp	it helps alright
11:43	Raynes	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/550628c650edb5ec# In case anyone is interested.
11:45	alinp	Chouser: also this one helped me a lot to understand http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/API_Examples
11:45	Chouser	alinp: great!
11:46	WizardofWestmarc	yeah the api_examples page is great
11:46	WizardofWestmarc	it helped me understand -> a lot better
12:31	gnuvince	Hello everyone
12:32	technomancy	hi vince
12:32	gnuvince	Hey technomancy, what's up?
12:33	technomancy	gnuvince: writing an interactive test-is runner in elisp
12:33	gnuvince	For elisp code?
12:33	technomancy	gnuvince: should be able to highlight test failures in the buffer itself rather than switching between slime-repl and the tests
12:33	technomancy	gnuvince: written in elisp, but for testing clojure.
12:33	gnuvince	oh!
12:33	gnuvince	Nice!
12:34	technomancy	gnuvince: it looks like test-is has hooks to make this pretty easy; just need to store pass/fail status in metadata.
12:34	technomancy	from there it's just a matter of reaching through slime to grab it, and rendering it.
12:34	gnuvince	ok
12:34	gnuvince	Very nice
12:34	technomancy	I did this for Ruby test suites, and it was really handy to be able to see the feedback superimposed on top of the tests.
12:35	durka42	reaching through slime sounds unpleasant
12:35	durka42	slimy
12:35	technomancy	durka42: M-x equip-latex-gloves
12:35	durka42	hmm, you could even highlight defns that fail their tests in bright red or something
12:36	technomancy	durka42: exactly
12:36	technomancy	well, as long as they're still readable. =)
12:36	technomancy	then there's a binding to see the expected vs the actual
12:36	technomancy	it's pretty simple in terms of functionality, but it's dramatic in how it changes your workflow.
12:36	durka42	error: latex-gloves incompatible with package "skin"
12:56	danlarkin	technomancy: wow I'm really looking forward to that, super cool
12:56	cooldude127	what coolness is technomancy creating now?
12:57	gnuvince	An Emacs integration to clojure.contrib.test-is
12:57	cooldude127	BRING IT ON :)
13:00	Drakeson`	would it make sense to port clojure to gnome (with GObject and friends as the underlying object system)?
13:01	cooldude127	Drakeson`: may we ask why?
13:01	cooldude127	it won't really be clojure, as clojure is kind of java-centric
13:01	technomancy	http://augment.rubyforge.org/ <= this is the ruby version of what I'm doing w/ clojure
13:01	technomancy	slime will make the clojure implementation much simpler
13:02	cooldude127	technomancy: that's AWESOME
13:03	Drakeson`	cooldude127: to develop gnome applications
13:03	cooldude127	Drakeson`: i think there are java gtk bindings (i think)
13:06	Drakeson`	cooldude127: I tried two of them, they were not that good. I think directly targeting gnome's run-time is a bit more straight forward. There is a project (vala) inspired by .Net that directly targets the gnome run-time.
13:06	cooldude127	Drakeson`: you can do it if you want, but i think you're in for more than you realize
13:11	Lau_of_DK	Good evening gentlemen
13:12	cgrand1	evening Lau!
13:13	walters	Drakeson: i work on http://live.gnome.org/JGIR
13:13	cooldude127	walters: that looks like an interesting project
13:13	danlarkin	greetings Lau
13:14	walters	Drakeson: languages like clojure being based on the JVM is one reason i was motivated to make more extensive bindings (as compared to java-gnome which is more like a limited Swing competitor)
13:15	walters	Drakeson: i think probably the biggest win would be improving clojure's Java integration, rather than trying for a Clojure-specific layer
13:16	cooldude127	what's wrong with clojure's java integration!? everyone knows clojure is perfect at everything :p
13:16	walters	practically speaking, function-to-single-method-interface conversion is pretty high up there in terms of things Clojure doesn't do now
13:16	cooldude127	oh. that.
13:17	walters	since in GTK+ applications you connect to signals very often, and JGIR represents signals as single method interfaces
13:17	walters	now what we really want is standard JVM types for closures
13:18	cooldude127	YEAH
13:19	gnuvince	tagged numbers?
13:21	walters	Drakeson: anyways if you try it and tell me what the pain points are i'd be happy to try to fix it
13:22	Drakeson	walters: sure, I'll try again. It guess is currently a bit messy to get JGIR to run on debian
13:23	Drakeson	walters: btw, what is your opinion about a clojure-like language targeting gnome runtime?
13:23	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: Any name yet?
13:23	walters	Drakeson: yeah, understood. I just finally got the last of my JNA patches upstreamed a few days ago, and gobject introspection isn't quite baked yet either...but it's getting closer
13:25	walters	Drakeson: without the JVM you mean?
13:25	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: nope, but I'm cleaning everything up for upload in anticipation of you giving me a good one!
13:25	Drakeson	walters: yes
13:25	Lau_of_DK	ah - the pressure
13:26	Drakeson	to fixup the gnome's "programming language of choice" problem.
13:26	walters	Drakeson: well i think you do have to keep in mind that the JVM (libraries, tools, deployment etc.) is a big part of the Clojure value for a lot of people, but that said it seems like what you're asking for is just a custom Clojure runtime
13:27	Drakeson	you know, C is not fun, and having to use perl, python, C#, ruby, vala, etc. for application logic is not fun either.
13:28	WizardofWestmarc	I dunno python can be pretty fun
13:28	WizardofWestmarc	but if there are good libs for what I'm doing I prefer clojure at this point
13:28	walters	Drakeson: well...my take on this as a GNOME developer is that we should use Vala for core library extensions, JavaScript for core applications (panel/wm/nautilus etc.), while maintaining the ability for 3rd parties to write applications to whatever runtime they desire (JVM/JavaScript/.NET/OCaml etc.)
13:29	walters	Drakeson: but anyways we're offtopic for this channel
13:29	Drakeson	WizardofWestmarc: I meant having many languages at the same time is not fun. It makes code sharing more difficult, at best.
13:29	WizardofWestmarc	ah that, yeah
13:30	Drakeson	walters: I feel a bit better about vala, but it could just clone clojure instead of C#.
13:31	walters	Drakeson: i don't see how...a lot of Clojure seems pretty closely tied to having garbage collection
13:31	walters	Vala just superficially looks like C# at a skeletal level
13:31	walters	fundamentally they are very different
13:32	cooldude127	any lisp is tied to having garbage collection
13:32	Drakeson	walters: what about guile? is it going to stay, or just keep lingering?
13:33	walters	Drakeson: if you're interested there's #gnome-hackers on GIMPNet, I don't want to take up more bandwidth here though
13:34	Drakeson	sorry guys about being off-topic. (going to #gnome-hackers channel)
13:34	cooldude127	lol
13:37	Drakeson	oh, btw, is the new fully-lazy thing usable at the moment? currently svn up (actually "git svn fetch") is stuck at rev 1279. how can I get 1282?
13:38	technomancy	Drakeson: the github mirror is only tracking trunk
13:38	walters	Drakeson: one more ontopic thing is that besides the JVM, some of the most innovative stuff in Clojure I see like the STM just aren't very useful for most desktop applications. It definitely won't work to use GTK+ or Clutter for example inside a STM transaction =)
13:39	technomancy	yeah, desktop apps don't really play to clojure's strengths since they're mostly IO-bound
13:39	kreig	that is why we are waiting for the Clojure/Java2d/AWT implementation of CLIM to fall from the sky
13:39	Drakeson	technomancy: is it going to land in trunk soon?
13:39	technomancy	Drakeson: sounds like it
13:40	kreig	mmm, presentation types
13:40	technomancy	Drakeson: rhickey was asking last night if anyone had any objections to merging
13:40	tkadlubo	What new features will be in this branch?
13:40	technomancy	if elisp would grow some concurrency features, I'd never want to write any UI code in anything else.
13:40	cooldude127	yeah emacs isn't best with that
13:42	gnuvince	Is there a "nice" way to catch exceptions when using with-open?
13:43	durka42	tkadlubo: fully lazy sequences. there's a little documentation at clojure.org/lazier
13:44	shoover`	technomancy: distel's erl package grows some concurrency onto emacs
13:44	cooldude127	durka42: how lazy are our current sequences?
13:44	kreig	college kid lazy
13:44	cooldude127	lol
13:44	durka42	maybe not quite that lazy
13:45	kreig	the new ones are gonna be stoner lazy
13:45	kreig	oh, sorry, same thing
13:45	kreig	trust-funder lazy!
13:45	Drakeson	walters: I see. But, will it ever happen to get a fast UI toolkit in clojure? will it be achieved using gtk/gnome java bindings?
13:47	tkadlubo	I wrote a Erastotenes sieve on lazy sequences, but I couldn't make it really infinite, because there's no way to retrieve a lazy-cons'ed sequence from within an infinite loop / recur.
13:47	technomancy	shoover`: via external processes though right?
13:47	technomancy	That's Not Good Enough.
13:48	Drakeson	technomancy: but it seems they are considering the coroutines approach (for emacs 24, I guess)
13:49	technomancy	Drakeson: yeah, I've got my fingers crossed
13:49	shoover`	technomancy: the building block uses buffers to act like mailboxes supporting send/receive
13:49	gnuvince	Drakeson: link?
13:49	Drakeson	gnuvince: emacs devel mailing list :p
13:49	gnuvince	bastard :)
13:49	shoover`	technomancy: that part does not use external processes and can be used in any elisp program
13:50	Drakeson	(sorry, I became more lazy recently :p)
13:50	technomancy	shoover`: right, but you'll still be blocked on I/O
13:50	gnuvince	I knew Haskell would have bad repurcussions on the world!
13:50	walters	Drakeson: i'm actively interested in supporting Clojure well and being a better choice than Swing/SWT/Qt-Jambi for what it's worth, though it's certainly a competitive field
13:51	WizardofWestmarc	competition just means the "consumers" win
13:52	WizardofWestmarc	which is a pro :)
13:53	danlarkin	ugh... why is File.setExecutable() only in java 6 :(
13:54	Drakeson	walters: I image it can catch on if there are 1. easy ways to install the required bindings (for both Debian/Ubuntu and Fedora), 2. clean, java-less API's to gnome/gtk UI design, 3. useful tutorials and examples on writing GUIs using clojure + gtk (with no java knowledge required).
13:54	Drakeson	s/image/imagine , d'oh!
13:54	walters	Drakeson: yeah, 1. should come pretty soon
13:55	Lau_of_DK	Ok, let me see if I got this. When I declare my namespace and include a gen-class section which :extends a.arbitrary.class, then clojure compiles something like Javas 'public class myclass extends xyzclass' and all functions prefixed with '-' will be methods in this class - But how can I control wether these methods are then private, public, protected or static?
13:56	kreig	so dutrs
13:56	kreig	is trunk from github relatively stable?
13:56	Drakeson	kreig: it is
13:57	kreig	or should I stick to the Dev17th release
13:57	kreig	otay
13:57	Drakeson	it just doesn't have the new lazy juice in yet
13:57	kreig	I mean trunk from SVN
13:58	kreig	that's ok, I don't need the lazy juice
13:58	walters	technomancy: regarding elisp, i'd say 60% of the value is actually the powerful Emacs buffer/frame abstraction, of course it has nice elisp bindings like save-excursion etc. Emacs is really a toolkit and a language (elisp)
13:58	Drakeson	walters: and a community.
13:58	walters	yeah
13:59	technomancy	definitely; it's a UI toolkit
14:01	zakwilson	walters: taking a quick look back, handling a Swing callback by sending it off to an agent is very useful.
14:02	zakwilson	I'm guessing other GUI callbacks would be similar.
14:03	walters	zakwilson: that's just using an agent as a thread pool, no?
14:03	zakwilson	It's using it as a queue.
14:03	zakwilson	That runs in its own thread.
14:05	technomancy	gnuvince, cooldude127, danlarkin: http://gist.github.com/65906
14:05	technomancy	all that's remaining is pulling the metadata out of slime and displaying it, I think
14:06	walters	zakwilson: yeah, though it's fairly easy to use Executors.newSingleThreadExecutor in Java too
14:06	cooldude127	technomancy: nope. you also need to have the hook look for with-test as well
14:06	cooldude127	because at least for me, i don't use deftest at all
14:07	rhickey	merge is ready!
14:07	danlarkin	gasp
14:07	gnuvince	Good luck!
14:07	technomancy	cooldude127: right; forgot about that
14:07	cooldude127	wooo
14:07	cooldude127	technomancy: yeah that's what i'm here for
14:07	technomancy	cooldude127: I'll commit it to a clojure-mode branch later today
14:08	cooldude127	technomancy: awesome
14:09	danlarkin	technomancy: I look forward to it
14:09	zakwilson	walters: I wouldn't know. In any case, your STM probably doesn't belong it your GUI code.
14:10	technomancy	the only marginally tricky thing remaining is figuring out when the tests have finished running and triggering a "grab test metadata" function then
14:12	walters	zakwilson: actually i wouldn't say agents are what you typically want for a GUI app, since you have to explicitly await on it, no? The biggest problem I think in GUI apps is doing something on a thread, then getting the result back as an event. This is what SwingWorker does, and JGIR has MainLoop.threadInvoke which takes two callbacks
14:13	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/3d4a2e8ec39f355/1e730d2e5fd626ef?lnk=gst&q=gen-class+macro#1e730d2e5fd626ef <--- Is this done automatically now with genclass somehow?
14:17	zakwilson	walters: depending on what you're doing, watchers are probably the best way to handle that.
14:18	walters	zakwilson: from the docs it looks like watchers run in the agent thread, so you'd need to queue an idle handler on the mainloop thread
14:19	ayrnieu	walters, a watcher on the agent will activate whenever the agent function returns. A watcher on something else that the agent sets will activate after it is set.
14:19	walters	maybe though if agent had an API to say "run watchers from the thread that created this agent"
14:20	walters	but, can't do that without integrating with the mainloop
14:20	ayrnieu	the watching agent does not also need to be the agent that does the work.
14:20	walters	ayrnieu: yeah, the issue is not when it runs, but on which thread it runs
14:21	zakwilson	walters: Why do you want the watchers to run in the same thread?
14:21	ayrnieu	bleh, that limitation.
14:21	walters	zakwilson: you can only mutate the GUI from one thread
14:22	zakwilson	Put the GUI in an agent and send off to that.
14:23	walters	yeah, that could make sense if your app is structured as some large computation, with the GUI as an aside
14:29	cemerick	am I correct in thinking that a types cannot be parameterized in gen-class specs?
14:29	rhickey	cemerick: right
14:30	zakwilson	It could work for a more interactive/involved GUI, though you might want to stick the elements of the GUI in a data structure (a tree of maps, or some such in most cases) appropriate for the situation.
14:33	durka42	would there be trouble with the jvm initializing the gui in its main thread and not wanting to give it to an agent?
14:33	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: clojure.org is bookring
14:33	Lau_of_DK	boorking
14:33	durka42	thinking of that -XStartOnFirstThread OSX bug
14:34	clojurebot	svn rev 1287; merged lazy branch -r1236:1286
14:34	cooldude127	OMG
14:34	cooldude127	it is done
14:34	technomancy	sweet!
14:34	Lau_of_DK	uuuuuuuuuuuh :)
14:34	Lau_of_DK	big moment
14:34	cooldude127	crap does that mean i need to go through all my damn code and replace rest with next?
14:35	durka42	hmm, maybe this update deserves an "ant clean"
14:35	hiredman	!
14:35	danlarkin	durka42: the default ant task runs clean first :)
14:35	Chouser	cooldude127: nope. just don't update your clojure checkout ever again.
14:35	durka42	oh, so it does
14:35	cooldude127	lol
14:36	durka42	has contrib been lazified?
14:36	Chouser	I'm only slightly kidding, though. If you're not ready to deal with the changes yet, don't update.
14:36	Chouser	durka42: Not all of it, I think.
14:36	cooldude127	btw, i have a fairly decent ported version of the macsyma thing from PAIP, so i do have symbolic math now
14:36	danlarkin	yeah... I'm waiting a few days to update
14:37	durka42	heh, gorilla doesn't quite build
14:38	hiredman	nuts
14:41	Chouser	so ... should we merge the contrib lazy branch back in?
14:41	technomancy	that was short-lived. =)
14:41	Chouser	yeha
14:41	Chouser	yeah
14:41	technomancy	but yeah, no reason to delay
14:42	hiredman	what is that build flag that is useful for doing lazy
14:42	Chouser	ant -Dclojure.assert-if-lazy-seq=please
14:42	hiredman	thank you
14:43	technomancy	-Dclojure.please.help.me=if-its-not-too-much-trouble
14:43	cemerick	rhickey: I'm certain it's a low-priority item for you (and for me as well, really), but being able to specify parameterized types in gen-class specs would be handy for comforting our java-only brethren
14:46	durka42	!
14:48	danlarkin	hwhat? clojure-json works as-is? how convenient!
14:49	cooldude127	what's the function that takes a seq like this: ([:a 1] [:b 2]) and makes it a map {:a 1, :b 2}
14:49	Chouser	(into {} lst)
14:49	danlarkin	(apply hash-map (flatten coll))
14:49	danlarkin	or that
14:50	cooldude127	i like chouser's way :)
14:51	hiredman	so clojurebot is lazy, but most of the plugins are disabled
14:51	hiredman	clojurebot: map?
14:51	hiredman	hmmm
14:52	hiredman	clojurebot: how much do you know?
14:52	danlarkin	clojure.core/rrest is gone?
14:54	rhickey	danlarkin: nnext
14:54	danlarkin	ah of course
15:08	taggart	seq fns are now: first, next, more ?
15:10	rhickey	taggart: first/rest/next
15:11	rhickey	http://clojure.org/lazy
15:11	taggart	thx, I was going off of ISeq.java
15:13	rhickey	ISeq may still change, the names are different now to force people to consider this change
15:13	gnuvince	rhickey: does destructuring have the same behavior as before? seq or nil?
15:13	rhickey	gnuvince: yes, & args are forced
15:13	gnuvince	Thanks
15:21	hiredman	(doc map)
15:21	clojurebot	Returns a lazy sequence consisting of the result of applying f to the set of first items of each coll, followed by applying f to the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the colls is exhausted. Any remaining items in other colls are ignored. Function f should accept number-of-colls arguments.; arglists ([f coll] [f c1 c2] [f c1 c2 c3] [f c1 c2 c3 & colls])
15:21	hiredman	^- lazy
15:23	hiredman	clojurebot: how much do you know?
15:23	clojurebot	I know 203 things
15:23	taggart	<3 clojurebot
15:23	hiredman	~def map
15:23	hiredman	oh
15:23	hiredman	right
15:25	hiredman	~def map
15:25	hiredman	~def lazy-seq
15:27	hiredman	that is some crazy joo joo
15:29	jbondeson	heh, poor swank clojure...
15:30	durka42	clojurebot: welcome back
15:30	durka42	too lazy to respond?
15:31	hiredman	fuzzer nickle
15:32	hiredman	git just bit me
15:35	hiredman	I think I just lost all my lazy changes to clojurebot
15:35	Chouser	:-(
15:35	hiredman	not that there where a lot
15:36	hiredman	or maybe not
15:36	cp2	thats what happens when you're lazy
15:36	cp2	!
15:37	AWizzArd	(doc plist)
15:37	AWizzArd	,(doc plist)
15:37	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: plist in this context
15:38	AWizzArd	,(doc pvalue)
15:38	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: pvalue in this context
15:39	AWizzArd	hiredman: iirc I have seen you requesting the doc of some functions without the leading comma.
15:39	jbondeson	so i thought i fixed swank-clojure by changing the lazy-cons -> (lazy-seq (cons ...)), and now it doesn't error, but my slime window isn't opening.
15:39	Chouser	(doc pvalues)
15:39	Chouser	missed it by that much
15:40	technomancy	hiredman: have you checked the git reflog?
15:40	technomancy	if anything's been added to the index, you should be able to get it back
15:40	hiredman	nah
15:40	AWizzArd	,(doc pvalues)
15:40	hiredman	my changes are still there
15:40	hiredman	I somewhere switched branches without noticing
15:40	AWizzArd	oh, that bot left us
15:40	hiredman	:P
15:40	Chouser	so i've got what I think to be a contrib trunk with correctly-merged changes from lazy.
15:41	Chouser	should I just delete the lazy branch and check this in?
15:41	technomancy	Chouser: delete all the files from the lazy branch except a readme that describes what just happened?
15:41	AWizzArd	why not check it in and leave the lazy branch alive until we see your new checkin works :)
15:41	Chouser	so cautious you guys...
15:42	technomancy	I guess the branch has only been around a few days; anyone playing with it will expect breakage and know what to do
15:42	AWizzArd	if you want to check it in now it would be great timing, because i just wanted to get the freshest version now
15:42	hiredman	(doc pvalues)
15:42	clojurebot	Returns a lazy sequence of the values of the exprs, which are evaluated in parallel; arglists ([& exprs])
15:42	AWizzArd	(doc +)
15:42	clojurebot	Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0.; arglists ([] [x] [x y] [x y & more])
15:42	AWizzArd	k
15:43	taggart	clojurebot: welcome back
15:43	hiredman	that is a problem
15:43	hiredman	clojurebot: hello?
15:43	clojurebot	BUENOS DING DONG DIDDLY DIOS, fRaUline hiredman
15:43	hiredman	hmmm
15:44	Lau_of_DK	When I want to assign a value to a field in a java class, how do I do ?
15:44	Chouser	contrib 478 has lazy merged into trunk
15:44	AWizzArd	Lau_of_DK: is there a setter method for that task?
15:44	AWizzArd	Otherwise I imagine even in Java it can't be done?!
15:44	Lau_of_DK	Yes
15:45	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: if no setter method, use (set! (.field obj) new-value)
15:45	Lau_of_DK	There probably is... I was just thinking C# get/set, but Javas not the same
15:45	Lau_of_DK	Thanks
15:45	AWizzArd	oki
15:45	AWizzArd	Good good, so the lazy branch has won the game
15:47	durka42	did anything change with :gen-class?
15:47	Raynes	Does anyone know why read-line was redefined?
15:47	AWizzArd	Chouser: now after this checkin the api page needs lots of updates, no?
15:48	danlarkin	aw clojure-contrib doesn't compile :(
15:49	Chouser	AWizzArd: clojure.org pages generally document the lastest release, not svn HEAD, the lazy and stream pages notwithstanding.
15:49	durka42	danlarkin: wfm...
15:51	AWizzArd	the exception is the api page?
15:51	danlarkin	durka42: what's wfm?
15:51	durka42	works for me
15:51	danlarkin	durka42: it compiles to .class files?
15:52	durka42	well, i dunno
15:52	durka42	"ant" works and builds the jar
15:52	danlarkin	oh, no, to build .class files you have to do ant -Dclojure.jar=/path/to/clojure.jar
15:53	durka42	unable to resolve symbol: rrest
15:54	danlarkin	test-is needs updating
15:54	durka42	user=> (use 'clojure.contrib.javadoc)
15:54	durka42	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: rrest in this context (shell_out.clj:53)
15:54	durka42	so the jar hides the compile errors for later
15:54	danlarkin	oh yes, and shell out too
15:54	durka42	sounds like lazy evaluation to me
15:55	Chouser	command-line is ok though
15:56	durka42	is rrest gone?
15:56	durka42	or is called nnext or something?
15:56	danlarkin	iya
15:56	danlarkin	ya, rather
15:56	hiredman	ugh
15:56	hiredman	looks like inits doesn't like lazy
16:02	Lau_of_DK	The java notation "45.0f", means (float 45) ? Any short hand for that?
16:03	Chouser	,(class 45.0)
16:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Double
16:03	Chouser	,(class (float 45.0))
16:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Float
16:03	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: I don't think so.
16:05	Lau_of_DK	k
16:06	gnuvince	People using Slime: swank-clojure is broken after the lazy branch merge
16:06	gnuvince	beware
16:06	WizardofWestmarc	yeah jbondeson already warned me
16:06	hiredman	what ever happened to reductions?
16:06	technomancy	they got reduced?
16:07	gnuvince	,(find-doc "^red")
16:07	clojurebot	------------------------- clojure.core/reduce ([f coll] [f val coll]) f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is return
16:07	gnuvince	hiredman: hmmm, I guess it was never checked in
16:07	hiredman	:(
16:08	jbondeson	gnuvince: also don't try to naively fix it like me. Infinite loops in swank FTL
16:08	gnuvince	jbondeson: heheh ;)
16:08	gnuvince	jbondeson: I've downgraded back to r1286
16:08	gnuvince	I'll wait until I get the word that swank is ok
16:08	WizardofWestmarc	I'm just going to wait until swank and clojure contrib are fixed
16:08	WizardofWestmarc	once all that is fully up and running I'll switch
16:08	jbondeson	i'll just suffer through straight inferior lisp =)
16:09	WizardofWestmarc	weird, twitter is going crazy on clojure but almost none of it is references to the lazy branch
16:09	WizardofWestmarc	I'd've expected such a burst right now to be tied to that.
16:10	WizardofWestmarc	7 posts in the last ~hour, 2 about it (including one from me)
16:11	danlarkin	lisppaste8: url
16:11	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
16:11	gnuvince	I had a function where I named a parameter map
16:11	gnuvince	and I could not figure out why calling the function map didn't work
16:12	jbondeson	haha, lisp-2 mentality has bitten me too
16:12	WizardofWestmarc	haha
16:12	WizardofWestmarc	so glad I was more of a scheme guy for my prior lisp experienc
16:12	lisppaste8	danlarkin pasted "shell_out patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75660
16:12	WizardofWestmarc	*experience
16:12	WizardofWestmarc	I don't expect the million namespaces :P
16:12	jbondeson	got soooo used to naming lists "list" and then in clojure it really hurt
16:13	danlarkin	Chouser: shell-out patch: http://paste.lisp.org/display/75660
16:15	kreig	is clojure.contrib includes in the base clojure svn repo?
16:15	Chouser	danlarkin: thanks! I've got that and a few others already ... coming soon...
16:15	danlarkin	Chouser: great :)
16:16	kreig	never mind..
16:18	technomancy	man... it's really confusing when using swank-clojure to try and figure out what's breaking because it's not implemented for clojure and what's breaking because you're doing it wrong.
16:18	technomancy	I don't suppose anyone in here is familiar with swank-clojure?
16:20	danlarkin	I think you get the title of resident elisp expert
16:20	gnuvince	Given a seq of tuples, what's the Clojure way to turn that into a hash map?
16:20	Chouser	,(into {} '([a b] [c d] [e f]))
16:20	clojurebot	{e f, c d, a b}
16:20	danlarkin	gnuvince: two-tuples? chouser demonstrated (into {} tuples) earlier
16:21	gnuvince	wow
16:21	gnuvince	:)
16:21	gnuvince	Thanks Chouser
16:21	technomancy	that's what I was afraid of
16:21	technomancy	problem is slime is so coupled to CL; it's pretty hard to read if you're used to regular elisp
16:22	Chouser	gnuvince: np
16:26	taggart	where does one go to see this clojure-related twittering?
16:26	WizardofWestmarc	http://search.twitter.com/search?q=clojure
16:27	taggart	thx
16:27	WizardofWestmarc	will update whenever a new tweet is up telling you to refresh
16:27	WizardofWestmarc	heh I see gnuvince just hit up proggit
16:28	WizardofWestmarc	haha
16:28	Chouser	"hey everybody, don't update!"?
16:28	WizardofWestmarc	You're a library bitch, so you update! :P
16:29	gnuvince	"Don't update if you mind having a working SLIME installation"
16:29	AWizzArd	yup, I found that out a few seconds ago :)
16:30	gnuvince	There
16:30	jbondeson	SISSIES
16:30	gnuvince	http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7y59u/rich_hickey_adds_fully_lazy_sequences_to_clojure/c07q57n
16:30	jbondeson	gotta loooove life out on the bleeding edge.
16:30	Chouser	re-find is now definitely better than re-seq if all you want is a truth value
16:31	jbondeson	Chouser: totally lazified?
16:31	Chouser	yeah, re-seq returns a lazy-seq, so you can't use it in a nil pun
16:31	Chouser	(if (seq (re-seq #"foo" blah)) ...)
16:32	Chouser	(if (re-find #"foo" blah) ...) ; FTW
16:33	WizardofWestmarc	heh someone's only half following clojure, started asking "what's up with next?
16:34	bitbckt	wait, what's up with next?
16:35	taggart	there's ...more... to it than that
16:35	taggart	oh ya it's not more anymore
16:35	jbondeson	Chouser: maybe it's just me, but i'd think the latter is more logical than the former.
16:42	Chouser	jbondeson: well, I've previously avoided re-find because it actually mutates
16:43	jbondeson	Chouser: that i didn't know. haven't played with regex in clojure yet.
16:43	jbondeson	which is odd for an ex-perl programmer to say ;)
16:43	WizardofWestmarc	I didn't know that about re-find
16:43	WizardofWestmarc	which I use semi-regularly >(
16:44	WizardofWestmarc	of course usually I just re-find a string and then throw that string away :P
16:44	Chouser	hm -- looks like only the one-arg form can leak the mutation
16:46	Chouser	,(let [m (re-matcher #"x\d" "x1x2x3")] [(re-find m) (re-find m)])
16:46	clojurebot	["x1" "x2"]
16:46	hiredman	ick
16:47	jbondeson	the entire code base i'm working in is a testament to the superiority of functional programming...
16:47	Chouser	so it's really re-matcher (which is just a java Matcher) that's at fault
16:48	WizardofWestmarc	jbondeson: your PS?
16:48	hiredman	clojurebot: well?
16:48	clojurebot	I don't understand.
16:48	Chouser	as long as you don't pass those matchers around, I guess you're ok, and re-find won't hurt you.
16:48	WizardofWestmarc	or something new?
16:48	jbondeson	i have a function called SectionExists, that returns a boolean and takes an optional parameter that is also an output
16:48	jbondeson	god i hate this
16:48	jbondeson	WizardofWestmarc: no work.
16:48	WizardofWestmarc	oh
16:48	WizardofWestmarc	the other side
16:48	WizardofWestmarc	"this shit is so horrible..."
16:49	WizardofWestmarc	I dunno how many of our coworkers would understand functional code though...
16:49	jbondeson	course it could just be the russian programming...
16:52	hiredman	I think FP is supposed to make things simpler, no?
16:53	WizardofWestmarc	it's simpler to debug and work with once the framework is in place at a minimum
16:53	hiredman	~google how I learned to be lazy
16:53	clojurebot	First, out of 297000 results is:
16:53	clojurebot	IceBlah: Things I've learned whilst being lazy
16:53	clojurebot	http://iceblah.typepad.com/mostly_music_lots_of_it_i/2008/12/things-ive-learned-whilst-being-lazy.html
16:53	WizardofWestmarc	you could argue it's got a bit more difficulty at first but long term is better.
16:53	hiredman	so it seems like danlarkin's json lib works in lazy
16:53	danlarkin	hiredman: it passes all the tests unmodified! color me surprised
16:54	hiredman	very cool
16:54	hiredman	clojurebot: latest?
16:54	clojurebot	latest is 1287
16:55	technomancy	I'm just going to code this pretending that the slime-eval function actually works; then when it gets fixed, my mode will be awesome!
16:56	jbondeson	technomancy: close your eyes and see the awesomeness that is your working product.
16:57	jbondeson	mind altering substances may enhance this...
17:03	hiredman	clojurebot: clojure is also the brand
17:03	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
17:04	danlarkin	so we can't nil-pun re-seq? seems odd that a function with seq in its name needs to have seq called on it :)
17:04	jbondeson	it's a lazy seq
17:04	jbondeson	so that's going to be quite common
17:06	fanda	,(var seq?)
17:06	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/seq?
17:06	fanda	,(meta (var seq?))
17:06	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name seq?, :file "core.clj", :line 115, :arglists ([x]), :doc "Return true if x implements ISeq"}
17:07	fanda	,(:name (meta (var seq?)))
17:07	clojurebot	seq?
17:07	hiredman	~def seq?
17:07	clojurebot	Huh?
17:07	hiredman	clojurebot: are you for real?
17:07	clojurebot	for is not used often enough
17:07	danlarkin	haha
17:07	hiredman	~def seq?
17:08	fanda	how do I get the same info, if function (any function) is inside e.g. vector?
17:08	fanda	,(def x [seq? 123])
17:08	clojurebot	DENIED
17:08	fanda	,(let [x [seq? 123]] (first x))
17:08	clojurebot	#<core$seq_QMARK___3043 clojure.core$seq_QMARK___3043@3deff3>
17:09	fanda	,(let [x [seq? 123]] (var (first x)))
17:09	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
17:09	fanda	I cannot apply 'var'
17:09	hiredman	~def var
17:10	hiredman	whoops
17:10	hiredman	fanda: var isn't a function
17:11	fanda	is there any other way around it?
17:11	hiredman	,(find-var 'seq?)
17:11	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Symbol must be namespace-qualified
17:11	fanda	just want to print the function name
17:11	hiredman	,(find-var (resolve 'seq?))
17:11	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
17:11	hiredman	,(resolve 'seq?)
17:11	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/seq?
17:11	hiredman	,((comp :name meta resolve) 'seq?)
17:11	clojurebot	seq?
17:12	hiredman	,((comp :name meta resolve first) [seq?])
17:12	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$seq_QMARK___3043 cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
17:12	Chouser	a function does not know its own name
17:12	hiredman	yeah
17:12	hiredman	,((comp :name meta resolve) 'seq?)
17:12	clojurebot	seq?
17:13	Chouser	fanda: var is a special form
17:13	hiredman	a symbol can be resolved to a var and the var maybe bound to a fuction
17:13	fanda	Chouser: too sad that function doesn't know its name
17:13	fanda	just wanted to print its name
17:13	Chouser	right, you can store either the var or the symbol in a collection and get the name, but the fn doesn't have a name
17:14	hiredman	rhickey_: any chance fn objects may get metadata?
17:16	hiredman	actually, I don't care about metadata on fn objects, I just want to be able to quary a fn object for arity information
17:17	fanda	Chouser, hiredman: thanks for help!
17:17	Chouser	I've asked before. I get the impression that he's not opposed, but that the code-gen for that would be tricky.
17:17	hiredman	I see
17:17	technomancy	just need to implement decompilation; that's all
17:18	hircus	hiredman: this is to do so programmatically, right?
17:18	technomancy	if spidermonkey can do it, why can't we? =)
17:18	Chouser	fanda: if this is just for debugging, you could try to munge something useful out of the str representation.
17:18	hiredman	hircus: yes
17:18	hircus	because if it's for human consumption, (doc fn) works
17:18	hiredman	I am aware
17:19	tashafa	,(doc seq)
17:19	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns a seq on the collection. If the collection is empty, returns nil. (seq nil) returns nil. seq also works on Strings, native Java arrays (of reference types) and any objects that implement Iterable."
17:19	Chouser	arity checking at compile time is on the todo, I imagine making the arity aviable through some api could be done at the same time.
17:32	technomancy	how do you turn a fully-namespace-qualified var into just a string with the top-level name? not sure of the terminology here, but #'clojure.foo.bar/my-var => "my-var"
17:34	dnolen	(str (:name (meta #'user/x)))
17:35	technomancy	ah thanks
17:37	tashafa	,(meta seq?)
17:37	clojurebot	nil
17:37	tashafa	,(meta '#seq?)
17:37	clojurebot	No dispatch macro for: s
17:37	tashafa	,(meta #'seq?)
17:37	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name seq?, :file "core.clj", :line 115, :arglists ([x]), :doc "Return true if x implements ISeq"}
17:38	tashafa	,(*1)
17:38	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var clojure.core/*1 is unbound.
17:38	hiredman	,'foo
17:38	clojurebot	foo
17:38	hiredman	,`foo
17:38	clojurebot	sandbox/foo
17:38	tashafa	thx
17:39	dnolen	technomancy: np
17:39	tashafa	,(`*1)
17:39	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: Symbol
17:40	tashafa	,(`*1 :name)
17:40	clojurebot	nil
17:40	hiredman	clojure bot does not bind *1 like the repl does
17:40	tashafa	ah..so whats the deal with the sandbox
17:41	tashafa	sry new here
17:41	hiredman	it executes code with a restricted set of permisions on the jvm, "sandbox" also happens to be the name of the namespace where it evaluates expressions
17:42	tashafa	gotcha
17:42	hiredman	`some-symbol just gives you a symbol, uh, "resolved" in the current namespace
17:42	tashafa	thanks again
17:42	hiredman	de nada
17:43	taggart	clojurebot: how much do you know?
17:43	clojurebot	I know 203 things
17:58	hiredman	~def doall
18:00	hircus	speaking of backquote...
18:00	hircus	is there a way to get the Scheme behavior somehow?
18:01	hircus	`(1 2 ,(+ 1 2) 4) => '(1 2 3 4)
18:01	AWizzArd	hircus: the comma is whitespace in Clojure
18:01	AWizzArd	so your example is the same as if the , were a space
18:02	hircus	AWizzArd: yup, but I'm showing the Scheme example
18:02	hiredman	,`(1 2 ~(+ 1 2) 4)
18:02	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4)
18:02	hircus	aha!
18:02	AWizzArd	use ~ instead of ,
18:02	hircus	thanks
18:02	AWizzArd	and ~@ instead of ,@
18:02	hircus	and @ does .. ?
18:03	hiredman	splicing
18:03	AWizzArd	,`(1 2 ~(list 10 20) 3)
18:03	clojurebot	(1 2 (10 20) 3)
18:03	AWizzArd	,`(1 2 ~@(list 10 20) 3)
18:03	hiredman	,`(1 2 ~@(map inc (range 5)) 4)
18:03	clojurebot	(1 2 1 2 3 4 5 4)
18:03	clojurebot	(1 2 10 20 3)
18:03	hircus	cool
18:15	danlarkin	anyone write a build.xml for a project that uses contrib? when I try to compile to classfiles it complains about contrib files not being on my classpath, but they are
18:39	technomancy	http://gist.github.com/66070 <= barely works, but here it is
18:40	technomancy	(clojure-test-mode.el)
18:41	technomancy	that was way harder than it should have been. swank is a minefield.
18:44	technomancy	that won't work.
18:52	technomancy	try that instead: http://gist.github.com/66076
18:54	technomancy	even better: http://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode/blob/b76283ae1e3611a6581cf490d0b566c58dd24ba3/clojure-test-mode.el
18:54	technomancy	gnuvince: let me know how that works for you
18:54	technomancy	or rather, let me know the ways in which it spectacularly fails
18:59	stimuli	hi
19:00	stimuli	so the lazy branch is either an exciting new age for Clojure ... or a big giant pain in the butt ... I haven't decided yet
19:01	Drakeson	if it is the latter, you might need to fix your butt :p
19:01	stimuli	true
19:02	slashus2	Is the laziness for both consistency and performance?
19:03	stimuli	both of course
19:03	stimuli	:)
19:03	slashus2	Consistency is beautiful.
19:13	AWizzArd	clojurebot: def source
19:20	Chouser	I've got a pair of lazy-seq objects (in genclass.clj) that both print as ()
19:21	Chouser	The class of each prints as clojure.core$map__3709$fn__3711
19:21	Chouser	And (= (vec a) (vec b)) is true
19:21	Chouser	but (= a b) is false
19:23	stimuli	cho : the changeover promises to be painful
19:24	hiredman	if you don't realize the lazy seqs, how do you know if they are the same?
19:24	stimuli	you have to realize them, I think
19:24	cooldude127	hiredman: magic
19:25	stimuli	unless they are the same object, perhaps
19:25	durka42	that would be identical? not =
19:25	stimuli	yeah
19:25	durka42	i hope clojure never has as many kinds of equality as CL
19:25	cooldude127	yeah but it might check identical? first, just to make sure
19:26	stimuli	right
19:26	cooldude127	durka42: yeah i think the two it has now are just fine
19:26	durka42	= identical? same? close-enough?
19:26	stimuli	if they are identical .. you don't ahve to force the lazy
19:26	durka42	(close-enough? 2 3)
19:26	durka42	:for-government-work
19:26	cooldude127	durka42: i actually had a close-enough? function for dealing with floating-point numbers
19:26	durka42	maybe = should realize them though
19:26	durka42	heh
19:26	stimuli	I don't know if it does that, however
19:26	durka42	if = is about value equality
19:26	stimuli	true
19:27	stimuli	but if they are HUGE .. it would be a nice optimization
19:27	durka42	to use magic?
19:27	durka42	i mean, lazy seqs are things you kind of have to handle carefully to keep them lazy, right
19:27	stimuli	well .. yeah .. magic is a lovely optimization .. 'cept if you have negated rules then it gets hard (Datalog joke)
19:27	durka42	so "don't compare them until you want to realize them" seems ok
19:27	cooldude127	technomancy: is the test-is emacs stuff in a branch yet?
19:28	stimuli	is it too early to wonder when contrib will be 100% fixed w/ the new lazy stuff?
19:28	technomancy	cooldude127: yeah, not sure about if it works though
19:28	technomancy	http://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode/blob/b76283ae1e3611a6581cf490d0b566c58dd24ba3/clojure-test-mode.el
19:29	cooldude127	technomancy: well obviously that is my job
19:29	cooldude127	make sure your shit works
19:33	cooldude127	technomancy: clojure-test-mode is mean. it changed the package of my slime repl
19:33	cooldude127	just by requiring it
19:34	technomancy	yes. it is very mean.
19:34	technomancy	it will probably push you over and take your cotton candy.
19:34	cooldude127	technomancy: also, you can fix the embedded clojure font-lock problem very easily
19:34	technomancy	I'll work on its attitude problem right after I fix its brokenness problem.
19:35	cooldude127	add a space before (ns, (defonce, and (defn
19:35	technomancy	oh, thanks
19:35	technomancy	cooldude127: it's probably too broken to really hack right now for stuff other than that
19:35	technomancy	gimme a few minutes
19:35	cooldude127	technomancy: yeah, you still haven't shown with-test any love
19:35	cooldude127	:(
19:36	technomancy	one step at a time
19:36	cooldude127	this is an important step :)
19:36	Chouser	,(= (map identity nil) (map inc nil))
19:36	cooldude127	it's the difference between useful and useless :)
19:36	clojurebot	false
19:37	cooldude127	really?
19:37	Chouser	that doesn't seem right
19:37	Chouser	And rhickey's not here (only rhickey_ and rhickey__)
19:37	cp2	,(inc nil)
19:37	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
19:37	cooldude127	Chouser: i get true in my repl
19:37	Chouser	,(= (map identity ()) (map inc ()))
19:37	clojurebot	false
19:37	cooldude127	is clojurebot on lazy?
19:38	Chouser	yes
19:38	cooldude127	or the new truck, i suppose
19:38	cooldude127	oh that's got something to do with it then
19:38	cooldude127	that USED to be true
19:38	durka42	,(inc nil)
19:38	durka42	,(doall (map inc nil))
19:38	durka42	i believe it is
19:38	durka42	what happened to that last evaluation...
19:38	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
19:38	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
19:38	Chouser	cooldude127: right
19:38	cooldude127	Chouser: it really still should be, this looks like a bug
19:38	durka42	user=> (doall (map inc nil))
19:38	durka42	()
19:38	durka42	that definitely doesn't seem right
19:39	Chouser	cooldude127: yes
19:39	cooldude127	durka42: sure it is
19:39	Chouser	durka42: no, that's correct.
19:39	durka42	it didn't do it, because if it had it would have thrown exception
19:39	cooldude127	map and stuff will always return a seq
19:39	cooldude127	which if empty will be ()
19:39	cooldude127	or a sequence i guess
19:39	cooldude127	not a seq
19:39	durka42	so map swallows exceptions now?
19:39	cooldude127	durka42: no
19:39	cooldude127	durka42: there is no null pointer exception
19:39	durka42	(inc nil) throws an exception
19:39	cooldude127	durka42: cuz nil has no elements, it doesn't call inc at all
19:40	durka42	oh
19:40	durka42	got it
19:40	hiredman	(doall (map inc [nil]))
19:40	Chouser	sorry, didn't mean to confuse
19:40	hiredman	,(doall (map inc [nil]))
19:40	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.NullPointerException
19:40	cooldude127	map used to return nil or a seq, now it returns a sequence, which can be empty
19:40	locks	I heard that clojure sucks
19:40	hiredman	,(doall (map inc (range 10)))
19:40	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
19:40	cooldude127	and apparently those sequences are not always equal
19:40	cooldude127	which seems wrong
19:40	Chouser	,(= (map [] []) (map [] []))
19:40	clojurebot	false
19:40	hiredman	doall seems kind of broken
19:41	Chouser	locks: at this very moment it's sucking slightly more than usual. :-)
19:41	cooldude127	a lot of things are temporarily broken
19:41	locks	ic
19:41	technomancy	cooldude127: ok, pull again from the clojure-test-mode branch
19:41	technomancy	I think it works in the base deftest case
19:41	Chouser	clojure svn rev 1286 doesn't suck at all.
19:41	technomancy	and now at least there's a TODO so you can know what stuff is known broken
19:42	technomancy	I gotta get back to work, so fork and hack if you want to make changes.
19:42	Chouser	there is?
19:42	Chouser	oh
19:42	cooldude127	technomancy: yeah i might just do that
19:43	technomancy	Chouser: heh; talking about my elisp mode. =)(
19:43	Chouser	yeah, sorry, I figured that out eventually.
19:45	slashus2	I ran across an interesting sentence in my programming languages text book. Talking about functional languages: "Other factors, such as efficiency, however, have prevented functional languages from becoming more widely used."
19:45	technomancy	that was true in the 80's; you had to have special hardware for lisp.
19:46	slashus2	This is comparing it to C, C++, and Java, I imagine.
19:46	hiredman	well, with a completely lazy language it can be difficult to figure out at what point in your code work is happening
19:47	slashus2	It mentions those languages immediately before it.
19:47	cooldude127	hiredman: or if it's happening at all
19:47	hiredman	well, that could just be a boldface lie
19:47	hiredman	textbooks are full of those
19:47	technomancy	could be an excuse for not wanting to spend much time covering them in the book.
19:47	cooldude127	lol
19:48	slashus2	It has a whole chapter on functional languages.
19:48	technomancy	"This stuff looks hard. I wonder if I could ignore it?"
19:48	technomancy	ah, ok
19:48	durka42	fixing lazy sequences is hard, let's go shopping
19:48	cooldude127	technomancy: elisp's imperativeness bugs the crap out of me sometimes
19:48	technomancy	yes
19:49	hiredman	slashus2: I dunno why your textbook said that, but is in manifestly untrue these days
19:49	cooldude127	i have no idea how to transform your regexp into something that matches both with-test and deftest
19:49	slashus2	Not sure, probably just an unsupported rationalization.
19:50	technomancy	cooldude127: luckily that's the only place that uses deftest; the rest of the line numbering stuff comes straight from test-is.
19:50	cooldude127	technomancy: the part that finds the name of a focused test isn't even used yet, right
19:50	cooldude127	?
19:50	technomancy	cooldude127: the only problem is that it's going to suck hard for tests that are in the same namespace but a different file
19:50	technomancy	yeah
19:50	technomancy	anyway, you can just M-x clojure-test-mode for now
19:50	cooldude127	k well i think i fixed the hook then
19:50	slashus2	Lazy sequences aren't that lazy. At least they do something when you tell them to.
19:51	cooldude127	technomancy: a simple or worked for the hook i think (it looks like it will, but who knows
19:51	technomancy	k
19:51	hiredman	they are a controled subset of complete laziness
19:51	slashus2	hehe
19:51	durka42	it's more of a procrastinating seq
19:51	slashus2	This is nearly equivalent to the effect of generator functions in python? Could they be called generating sequences too?
19:52	cooldude127	technomancy: error in process filter
19:52	cooldude127	idk even what that means
19:53	technomancy	cooldude127: it means something happened in the async handler
19:53	cooldude127	NOOOO
19:53	technomancy	cooldude127: M-x toggle-debug-on-error to see what's going on
19:53	hiredman	slashus2: obviously it is not nearly equivalent. it is far superior
19:53	technomancy	though... all the elisp-cl-ish macro stuff can make debugging kinda tricky some times
19:53	slashus2	Well for one, the sequences are not functions.
19:53	slashus2	I realize that.
19:53	cooldude127	technomancy: wrong number of arguments, who knows where
19:54	technomancy	bleh
19:54	technomancy	cooldude127: did you M-x slime before launching clojure-test-mode?
19:54	cooldude127	technomancy: i had slime up already
19:54	technomancy	ok
19:54	cooldude127	technomancy: does it need to already be in the right ns inside the repl?
19:54	hiredman	,((comp (partial take 10) iterate) inc 0)
19:54	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
19:54	technomancy	cooldude127: it shouldn't, but you could check that
19:54	hiredman	mother fitzer
19:55	technomancy	actually... that might be it
19:55	hiredman	this is not cool
19:55	cooldude127	technomancy: no it's not
19:55	cooldude127	technomancy: i mean it might still be an issue, but that's not what this is
19:55	hiredman	~def partial
19:55	hiredman	~def comp
19:55	technomancy	cooldude127: well it's a start at least. it has worked on at least one test file. =)
19:55	cooldude127	technomancy: this appears to be somewhere inside clojure-test-extract-result
19:57	hiredman	,(comp identity identity identity)
19:57	clojurebot	#<core$comp__3675$fn__3677 clojure.core$comp__3675$fn__3677@b2c64>
19:57	hiredman	,((comp identity identity) :a)
19:57	clojurebot	:a
19:57	hiredman	,((comp identity identity identity) :a)
19:57	clojurebot	:a
19:57	hiredman	hmmm
19:57	technomancy	cooldude127: what does this get you in your test namespace? (map #(cons (str (:name (meta %))) (:status (meta %))) (vals (ns-interns ns)))
19:58	cooldude127	technomancy: a big mess of gross
19:58	hiredman	,((partial :a nil) :b)
19:58	clojurebot	:b
19:58	hiredman	,((comp identity (partial :a nil)) :b)
19:58	clojurebot	:b
19:59	dreish	,(keyword "-)")
19:59	clojurebot	:-)
19:59	cooldude127	dreish: LOL
20:00	hiredman	,(replicate 10 1)
20:00	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
20:00	hiredman	,(replicate 10 '(1))
20:00	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
20:00	hiredman	oh
20:00	hiredman	I get it
20:00	hiredman	this is clojurebot's fault
20:00	hiredman	(acutally doall's fault)
20:03	cooldude127	technomancy: I FIGURED IT OUT
20:03	cooldude127	it's the destructuring bind in extract-result
20:03	cooldude127	destructuring-bind throws up an error if the thing you pass it doesn't have all the stuff you're trying to get out of it
20:04	technomancy	cooldude127: yeah, but you need that stuff!
20:04	technomancy	if it doesn't have enough elements, something is wrong
20:05	cooldude127	technomancy: well i have a couple with-tests that don't actually have tests
20:05	technomancy	hah! well screw that
20:05	cooldude127	just useless wrappers
20:05	cooldude127	lol
20:05	technomancy	yeah, so you can add a clause skipping empty tests
20:05	cooldude127	i need to go eat, but i'll work on this later
20:06	technomancy	k
20:12	slashus2	I know you can do (.contains [1 2 3 4] 1) if you want to test for collection membership, but will anything like (inseq? sequence member) be added to the api?
20:15	technomancy	,(doc contains)
20:15	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: contains in this context
20:15	technomancy	,(doc contains?)
20:15	clojurebot	"([coll key]); Returns true if key is present in the given collection, otherwise returns false. Note that for numerically indexed collections like vectors and Java arrays, this tests if the numeric key is within the range of indexes. 'contains?' operates constant or logarithmic time; it will not perform a linear search for a value. See also 'some'."
20:16	technomancy	slashus2: I think that's in contrib's seq-utils
20:16	slashus2	That is interesting.
20:16	slashus2	Will the contrib items be moved into the main language, or do they stay in contrib?
20:17	technomancy	slashus2: some will get moved
20:18	slashus2	It is basically a testing ground?
20:18	technomancy	well, core is never going to contain everything
20:18	technomancy	but some things are near-universally useful
20:27	taggart	anyone know of a good web reference for lisp-y terms like "destructuring bing" and "arity"?
20:27	taggart	erm... bind
20:29	Chouser	taggart: destructuring is documented here http://clojure.org/special_forms#toc4
20:30	Chouser	arity just means the number of args a fn takes
20:30	taggart	thx, just didn't want to have to keep bugging ppl for definitions of words as they come up
20:31	taggart	reading through SICP now, so very nubish with lisp
20:32	Chouser	well, I haven't read that yet, so you're ahead of me.
20:32	taggart	heh, I'll take what I can get
20:35	slashus2	Chouser: Have you read Programming Clojure yet?
20:35	taggart	not yet
20:36	taggart	sry lol, not to me
20:42	slashus2	Will the whole language becoming lazy make "Programming Clojure" obsolete as it currently stands?
20:53	Chouser	slashus2: I've read much of it -- I haven't gotten to some of the more recent chapters yet.
21:09	arohner	anyone else get seriously annoyed at all the XML java projects want?
21:10	arohner	I'm seriously thinking about re-purposing one of the clojure HTML generators to make XML for java projects I try to run alongside clojure
21:13	Chouser	like lancet
21:13	Chouser	?
21:18	arohner	sort of
21:18	arohner	I thought lancet was more geared towards ant-style stuff
21:18	arohner	I want a general purpose XML generator so I don't have to write XML config files
21:18	Chouser	oh, yes, but I mean ant is meant to be run by xml files, but you can run it via lancet instead.
21:19	arohner	ah, right
21:19	arohner	does lancet generate XML or does it call ant code directly?
21:20	Chouser	calls ant directly, I believe.
21:32	hiredman	,(map identity (range 10))
21:32	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
21:32	Chouser	works for me
21:33	hiredman	,(map identity (range 10))
21:33	clojurebot	LazySeq used in 'if'
21:33	hiredman	yeah, eval-in-box bug
21:33	Chouser	ah
21:34	hiredman	,(map identity (range 10))
21:34	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
21:34	hiredman	,((comp (partial take 10) iterate) inc 0)
21:34	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
21:34	Chouser	congrats
21:34	hiredman	I guess
21:34	hiredman	this looks real ugly
21:41	clojurebot	svn rev 1288; fixed LazySeq and EmptyList equals/equiv
21:41	hiredman	svn rev 1287
21:41	clojurebot	svn rev 1287; merged lazy branch -r1236:1286
21:51	clojurebot	svn rev 1289; fixed nil punning in genclass, patch from Chouser
21:53	durka42	woo contrib builds
21:54	durka42	,nthnext
21:54	clojurebot	Don't know how to create ISeq from: core$nthnext__4325
21:54	durka42	nthrest => nthnext?
21:54	Chouser	yep
21:54	hiredman	,foo
21:54	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: foo in this context
21:55	hiredman	,partial
21:55	clojurebot	Don't know how to create ISeq from: core$partial__3681
21:55	hiredman	ugh
21:55	hiredman	still not fixed
21:56	clojurebot	svn rev 1290; fixed (cycle [])
21:58	hiredman	,partial
21:58	clojurebot	Don't know how to create ISeq from: core$partial__3681
22:01	hiredman	,partial
22:01	clojurebot	#<core$partial__3681 clojure.core$partial__3681@167c6fd>
22:01	hiredman	,:a
22:01	clojurebot	:a
22:11	clojurebot	svn rev 1291; added sequence
22:12	rhickey	everyone ported to lazy?
22:13	cp2	im doing so as you mentioned it
22:13	cp2	although, i dont have much to port :)
22:16	hiredman	ditto
22:16	hiredman	actually, I think I just finished
22:16	cp2	eh, so
22:16	cp2	the lazy branch is just a replacement for clojure-contrib ?
22:17	cp2	sorry, dont quite understand the ordering of the svn
22:17	hiredman	,((comp (partial take 10) iterate) inc 0)
22:17	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
22:17	hiredman	cp2: no
22:17	hiredman	there was a seperate branch in the clojure svn
22:17	hiredman	clojurebot: svn?
22:17	clojurebot	svn is http://clojure.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/
22:17	cp2	yes i know
22:18	cp2	its /branches/lazy
22:18	hiredman	yes
22:18	cp2	not /trunk etc
22:18	hiredman	but it just got merged into trunk
22:18	cp2	oh ok
22:18	hiredman	svn rev 1288
22:18	clojurebot	svn rev 1288; fixed LazySeq and EmptyList equals/equiv
22:18	cp2	so all i have to do is checkout from trunk again?
22:18	hiredman	svn rev 1287
22:18	clojurebot	svn rev 1287; merged lazy branch -r1236:1286
22:18	cp2	ah
22:18	cp2	sounds good
22:18	hiredman	yes
22:18	hiredman	but that is completely serperate from contrib
22:19	hiredman	clojurebot: contrib?
22:19	clojurebot	contrib is http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
22:19	cp2	well, when i built it the resulting jar was named clojure-contrib
22:19	cp2	so it threw me off
22:19	hiredman	on which lazy porting is on going
22:19	cp2	yes i know contrib is seperate ;)
22:19	hiredman	uh
22:19	cp2	i see
22:19	hiredman	contrib makes clojure-contrib
22:20	Wizardofwestmarc	has Swank been updated yet anyone know?
22:20	hiredman	clojure makes clojure.jar
22:20	cp2	oh damnit
22:20	cp2	i had the wrong url
22:20	cp2	for some reason
22:20	Wizardofwestmarc	err swank-clojure
22:20	cp2	there we go
22:36	durka42	hmm, 1291 breaks contrib because c.c.monads defines a fn "sequence"
22:36	durka42	that would be better phrased as "c.c.monads is broken in 1291"
22:38	danlarkin	~source seq
22:40	durka42	that one's not so illuminating...
22:40	danlarkin	oh, that was just for my reference
22:41	Chouser	fixed in contrib rev 482
22:43	durka42	,(.startsWith "--goo" "--")
22:43	clojurebot	true
22:43	durka42	,(.startsWith "-goo" "--")
22:43	clojurebot	false
22:43	durka42	interesting
22:45	durka42	,(.startsWith nil "--")
22:45	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
22:46	hiredman	...
22:46	durka42	weird things happening with gorilla
23:00	durka42	will you look at that, i fixed gorilla
23:00	durka42	nil at the end of a seq
23:06	cooldude127	technomancy: i sent you a pull request!
23:07	technomancy	cooldude127: excellent
23:07	cooldude127	technomancy: i still don't know if it works. i don't get any highlighting
23:07	technomancy	cooldude127: I predict things are going to get confusing distinguishing between your clojure-mode and clojure-code repos
23:07	technomancy	heh
23:07	cooldude127	lol
23:07	technomancy	cooldude127: does C-c ' work over a failing test?
23:08	danlarkin	mode code
23:08	cooldude127	technomancy: HOLY SHIT!
23:08	danlarkin	code mode code
23:09	cooldude127	technomancy: yeah it worked
23:10	cooldude127	technomancy: ok that's really cool
23:11	cooldude127	technomancy: ok it doesn't always work
23:12	durka42	the humble vim user wonders what C-c ' does
23:12	cooldude127	durka42: in theory, it shows the result of a failing test
23:12	hiredman	well, in slime.vim it sends the form under the cursor to the repl
23:12	hiredman	ah
23:13	hiredman	actaully C-c C-c
23:13	cooldude127	technomancy: ok it worked when i messed up the last (is) in a test, but earlier ones don't show
23:14	cooldude127	yeah, confirmed, only the last is block works
23:19	technomancy	durka42: it shows the reason for the test failure under point
23:19	cooldude127	technomancy: is there a reason that once test mode is enabled, it is global? all my buffers say Test
23:20	technomancy	cooldude127: even non-clojure ones?
23:20	cooldude127	technomancy: ALL OF THEM! even rcirc!
23:20	technomancy	that's a bug; heh
23:20	cooldude127	lol
23:20	cooldude127	really? :p
23:21	technomancy	unless you want to test snippets that other people paste into the channel on the fly
23:21	technomancy	which would be awesome
23:21	cooldude127	technomancy: yeah not what i want tho :)
23:21	cooldude127	technomancy: but any idea why only the last "is" in a test block gets highlighted? does this happen for you too?
23:23	technomancy	cooldude127: let me see. (failures are not done on a per-test basis but a per-is basis)
23:24	technomancy	cooldude127: I see; yeah, there's a problem there
23:25	cooldude127	technomancy: yeah i'm not sure why
23:27	technomancy	cooldude127: I think I see the problem; it's in clojure-test-load-reporting
23:27	technomancy	where test-is's report gets redefined
23:27	cooldude127	technomancy: ok, what about it is wrong?
23:27	technomancy	it resets the metadata for the test var for each failure
23:28	technomancy	where it should append it to a vector or something
23:28	cooldude127	oh
23:28	cooldude127	technomancy: is that the problem tho when you only have one failure, it's just not the last?
23:29	technomancy	cooldude127: I don't know about that; haven't repro'd
23:29	cooldude127	oh
23:29	cooldude127	do you know what you're doing to fix it?
23:30	technomancy	I'm not sure. I want to avoid data structures that don't have elisp equivalents, so I must stick to vectors and lists
23:31	cooldude127	lists are probably the best bet
23:31	technomancy	alists! woo hoo!
23:31	technomancy	since I need to correlated line numbers with failure data
23:32	cooldude127	technomancy: so is status only used by you? it's not part of test-is normally?
23:32	cooldude127	s/status/:status/
23:32	technomancy	right
23:33	cooldude127	cool
23:33	cooldude127	i was hoping that was the case
23:46	technomancy	ugh. now I have to figure out a way to clear metadata in between test runs
23:50	cooldude127	uh oh
23:50	technomancy	is there something like set-meta!
23:51	technomancy	ah; reset-meta!
23:53	cooldude127	technomancy: don't get too crazy reseting metadata, as my testing vars are probably functions, which have important metadata
23:53	cooldude127	only reset the stuff that needs it
23:54	technomancy	right; I realized I want to alter with assoc to only set :status to []
23:54	cooldude127	technomancy: cool :)
23:57	cooldude127	technomancy: the second you have something that kinda works, PUSH