#clojure – 2009-02-15

2009-02-15

00:00	WizardofWestmarc	already tried type hinting I assume?
00:00	gnuvince_	WizardofWestmarc: it's everywhere.
00:01	gnuvince_	I can process about a thousand files in less than four minutes, but I'd be really happy if I could bring that number down some more.
00:01	WizardofWestmarc	what sort of processing?
00:01	gnuvince_	http://github.com/gnuvince/clj-starcraft/tree/master
00:02	gnuvince_	unpacking and decoding Starcraft replay files.
00:02	WizardofWestmarc	ah ha
00:02	WizardofWestmarc	how complicated is the sc files? I know at their core it's about time and commands entered by the players
00:04	gnuvince_	The format is a rather simple one, but it's packed, and that's a mess to unpack. Fortunately, a gentleman already wrote an unpacker in Java :)
00:04	gnuvince_	The rest is basically just reading bytes and associating actions to players
00:05	ayrnieu	gnuvince - where do you get starcraft save files, to test on?
00:05	gnuvince_	ayrnieu: http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/
00:05	ayrnieu	oh. 'starcraft replay files'.
00:05	WizardofWestmarc	was gonna say, there are probably 10s to 100s of thousands of replay files on the 'net
00:06	gnuvince_	yeah
00:06	WizardofWestmarc	are you gathering statisticial info from them or purely a case of "this is cool!"?
00:07	gnuvince_	WizardofWestmarc: there is a tool for Windows called "bwchart" that gives you information and stats on the games you played
00:07	gnuvince_	How many units were produced, your actions-per-minute rate, etc.
00:07	WizardofWestmarc	right
00:07	gnuvince_	But it's Windows only and requires an installation of Brood War
00:07	WizardofWestmarc	ah ha, ties into the player in windows
00:08	WizardofWestmarc	err in the game
00:08	gnuvince_	I would like to make a mini clone that would be cross platform and have no dependencies on Brood War itself.
00:08	WizardofWestmarc	...which is just the engine >_>
00:08	WizardofWestmarc	makes sense
00:08	gnuvince_	The real goal is to teach me some Clojure and Java.
00:08	WizardofWestmarc	well of course
00:08	WizardofWestmarc	doesn't mean it can't have other uses as well ;-)
00:08	gnuvince_	But the side effect is nice enough to keep me going.
00:08	gnuvince_	Of crouse
00:08	gnuvince_	course*
00:09	WizardofWestmarc	I just wish the lib someone in here pointed me to had decent documentation (a java lib not a clojure one)
00:09	WizardofWestmarc	it looks interesting for what I'm messing with, but I can't find good docs, a few "ok" blog posts but that's it (openNLP if you're wondering)
00:09	gnuvince_	Well, time to head to bed
00:10	gnuvince_	Good night gents'
00:10	WizardofWestmarc	later \m/
03:22	Lau_of_DK	Top of the morning gents
03:23	Raynes	Good morning old chap. ;)
03:23	Lau_of_DK	Mr. Raynes - What a pleasant surprise :)
03:24	Raynes	:p
03:32	tkadlubo	Morning, hope the weather is good wherever you live. I want to filter a define a lazy sequence by filtering another lazy sequence. Can I consume beginning of the generated sequence in the filtering predicate?
03:32	Lau_of_DK	I think so, but can you paste an example?
03:32	tkadlubo	Arrr, s/want to filter a/want to/
03:36	tkadlubo	I mean specifically Erastotenes' sieve. Something like (def primes (filter prime? (range 2 limit))) where prime? predicate uses primes sequence.
03:36	Lau_of_DK	Yes that would return a lazy seq
03:37	tkadlubo	That's good. Thanks.
03:37	Lau_of_DK	np
03:37	Lau_of_DK	,(filter even? (range 2 10))
03:37	clojurebot	(2 4 6 8)
03:37	Lau_of_DK	If youre in emacs, you can do that directly in the REPL - Dunno how comfortable you are with the IDE yet :)
05:07	te	Anyone know anyone hiring clojure programmers?
05:12	Lau_of_DK	Anyone seen this before? java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/AFunction (iwish.clj:0)
05:12	Lau_of_DK	[Thrown class clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException]
05:20	te	How hard would it be to implement something like TryRuby in clojure
05:21	Lau_of_DK	Ask Chouser, he already did it: http://clojurescript.n01se.net/repl/
05:26	Raynes	It seems that when it comes to writing something in Clojure, all you do is think about it and it's done.
05:26	Raynes	It's magically.
05:26	Raynes	magical*
05:26	Raynes	Now, why in the hell didn't God write the universe in LISP. :\|
05:27	vha4	god?
05:27	vha4	lisp?
05:38	Raynes	,(interleave (take 10 (iterate inc 1)) (repeat 3))
05:38	clojurebot	(1 3 2 3 3 3 4 3 5 3 6 3 7 3 8 3 9 3 10 3)
05:39	Raynes	What happens if you make an infinite sequence. Clojurebot stops that right? >_>
05:45	Lau_of_DK	,(println (iterate inc 0))
05:45	clojurebot	java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
05:45	Lau_of_DK	,(loop [] (recur))
05:45	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
05:45	Lau_of_DK	Yea he seems to be pretty robust
05:45	Raynes	:\|
05:50	tkadlubo	Maybe garbage collector tuning methods weren't sandboxed away...
06:19	angol	hi! Is anyone here? Is there a downloadable documentation? I like programming outside the house/office. hence no internet connection? any help would be appreciated.
06:23	Raynes	There should be. :\|
06:29	Lau_of_DK	When Clojure boorks because it says ClassNotFound clojure.lang.AFunction - whats the problem ?
06:30	cgrand	Lau_of_DK: did you try to clean and rebuild clojure?
06:31	Lau_of_DK	Thats actually what caused the problem - I was trying to get some interactive Compojure development going, but technomancys .el files didnt work, they gave some other obscure error whenever I tried to require something, so I updated, and now this @ cgrand
06:32	cgrand	at which point did you get that exception (before getting to the REPL?)
06:35	Lau_of_DK	java -cp $classpath clojure.lang.Script app/boot.clj
06:35	Lau_of_DK
06:35	Lau_of_DK	The script defines the cp and then fires that
06:36	Lau_of_DK	http://github.com/technomancy/concourse/blob/51afbc7b94692407cec98de24ae76b91a86d730a/app/boot.clj
06:36	Lau_of_DK	Boot looks alot like that
06:36	leafw	angol: Stuart Halloway is about to publish a book on clojure. Also, you may use 'wget' on a shell as a spider, to download the entire clojure.org website. In addition, you have built-in the (doc <name>) and (find-doc "<name>") functions.
06:45	Lau_of_DK	Ive found a jar that works now, how can I check its revision ?
06:45	orero	is it just me or read-line is broken? I tried it interactively and it complains that LineNumberingPushbackReader cannot be cast to BufferedReader. what gives?
06:46	Lau_of_DK	orero: You tried it from slime?
06:47	orero	Lau_of_DK: I use clojure-mode. same thing as far as the repl goes.
06:47	Lau_of_DK	Not quite, inferior-lisp doesnt redirect in and out, but slime does
06:47	orero	Lau_of_DK: then what in and out point to in the inferior-lisp?
06:48	orero	besides, if read-line doesn't work, why does read work?
06:49	Lau_of_DK	(doc read)
06:49	clojurebot	Reads the next object from stream, which must be an instance of java.io.PushbackReader or some derivee. stream defaults to the current value of in .; arglists ([] [stream] [stream eof-error? eof-value] [stream eof-error? eof-value recursive?])
06:49	Lau_of_DK	(doc read-line)
06:49	clojurebot	Reads the next line from stream that is the current value of in .; arglists ([])
06:50	Lau_of_DK	I cant say for sure
06:50	orero	I can't remember for sure, but I think some weeks ago read-line worked for me, so unless I'm confused....
06:51	Raynes	orero: If you are using Stu's version of Clojure included with the sample code, read-line is broken.
06:51	Raynes	I had that same problem a week ago.
06:52	orero	Raynes, is it something new or ongoing?
06:52	orero	I got the latest trunk.
06:52	Raynes	I don't know. I know it's broken, that's all I know. I mentioned it but no one answered so I just reverted back to the release version.
06:53	Raynes	Maybe someone should bring this to Rich's attention?
06:53	orero	Raynes, in release it works?
06:53	Raynes	Yes.
06:53	Raynes	Perfectly.
06:54	orero	Raynes, ok thanks. now that I know it's not me, I'll look into it. I thought it was just me doing something really stupid.
06:54	Raynes	No problem.
06:55	orero	Lau_of_DK: didn't you write ClojureQL?
06:55	Lau_of_DK	I did, together with Kotarak
06:56	orero	Lau_of_DK: I've just started looking into it. looks great. does it work with sqlite?
06:56	leafw	anybody can recall the webpage of the nice lib for pretty-printing clojure exceptions?
06:56	Lau_of_DK	orero: Up until now, we've ensured that everything worked with MySql, Postgresql and SQLite, without the user doing anything specific to make that happend, although from this point forward, I think we'll focus mostly on MySql, Post and Derby
06:57	Lau_of_DK	The code however, will be very easy to modify, so if you want to do something specific for SQLite, you can do it and just send me the patch
06:58	orero	Lau_of_DK: ok. too bad you won't include sqlite. it's a sweet db.
06:59	Lau_of_DK	Its a toy primarily, derby takes the same principle a step further and has backing from the apache-foundation, so I think its a good move
06:59	Raynes	,(list [2 3 4])
06:59	clojurebot	([2 3 4])
06:59	Lau_of_DK	Im not saying though, that we wont have support for SQLite - You can do almost everything in SQLite as it is, Im just saying extending from here will come mostly through patches from good folk like yourself
06:59	Raynes	,(set '(1 2 3))
06:59	clojurebot	#{1 2 3}
07:00	Raynes	Oh thats neat.
07:01	orero	Lau_of_DK: I haven't tried Derby yet. I've been using sqlite for quite some time because it was so simple and easy and was good for my needs.
07:02	Raynes	(doc str)
07:02	clojurebot	With no args, returns the empty string. With one arg x, returns x.toString(). (str nil) returns the empty string. With more than one arg, returns the concatenation of the str values of the args.; arglists ([] [x] [x & ys])
07:02	Lau_of_DK	orero: And Derby is basically the same, simple, easy and local. Its just more extended in terms of features, and as I recall its being developed upon quite heavily by Apache F.
07:02	Raynes	,(str #{\n \o})
07:02	clojurebot	"#{\\n \\o}"
07:03	Raynes	,(apply (str #{\n \o}))
07:03	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
07:03	Raynes	(doc apply)
07:03	clojurebot	Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending args to argseq.; arglists ([f args* argseq])
07:03	orero	Lau_of_DK: I'll go take a look at it now. does clojureql works with it in the current version?
07:03	Lau_of_DK	Raynes: Could you please install Emacs and use the local repl? :)
07:03	Lau_of_DK	orero: Yes, both SQLite and Derby
07:03	Lau_of_DK	and Mysql and Postgresql, and in principle Oracle, though I havent tested
07:03	orero	Lau_of_DK: great
07:04	Raynes	I have the REPL in netbeans open, I'm sorry, didn't realize using Clojurebot was not allowed in here ;).
07:04	Lau_of_DK	If you didnt know you didnt know :)
07:05	Raynes	Someone should put up a Clojurebot in a dedicated channel.
07:06	Lau_of_DK	Raynes: Why? I have IRC in the right side buffer, and a Repl in the left side buffer... No need
07:06	Raynes	Then why have Clojurebot here?
07:06	Lau_of_DK	He's good for letting us keep up with the svn log, and for clearing up point in discussions
07:06	Raynes	Scratch that, all my suggestions have been disregarded so far, this one shall be no different. Forget it.
07:07	Lau_of_DK	Like, when you discuss for the 10.th time wether apply is lazy or not
07:07	Lau_of_DK	(doc apply)
07:07	clojurebot	Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending args to argseq.; arglists ([f args* argseq])
07:07	Lau_of_DK	Oh Raynes, did I hurt your feelings? I didnt mean to
07:07	Lau_of_DK	And if its any comfort, I think all my suggestions have been disregarded as well :)
07:08	Raynes	Somebody should at the very least write a list of rules for this channel.
07:08	Raynes	And no, you didn't hurt my feelings.
07:13	Lau_of_DK	You can write a list of rules if you want :)
07:13	Lau_of_DK	I dont really see the point though
07:14	Raynes	I do. So people would know the rules before breaking the invisible ones.
07:14	Lau_of_DK	When I ask you to cool it with clojurebot, thats not a rule, its just me asking you nicely
07:15	Raynes	It should be a rule, spamming with bots is one of the reasons why people make dedicated channels for bots, while still keeping them in the main channel.
07:16	Raynes	People who want to use the bots extensively are diverted to the bot's channel.
07:16	Raynes	But it doesn't really matter. This isn't my channel, and that isn't my bot :p
07:17	Raynes	Also, I'm sorry if I come off too strong sometimes, when it sounds like I'm trying to be mean I'm really not.
07:18	Lau_of_DK	No I didnt take it that way at all
07:23	angol	thanks leafw
07:23	leafw	you guys sound like you have nothing else to do :)
07:24	Lau_of_DK	leafw: Thats not true - I have lots of interactive Compojure development to do - but I cant get it working!!
07:25	Raynes	leafw: I should be reading. But I can't seem to force myself to do it. I'm on teh sequences chapter.
07:26	leafw	Raynes: on Stuart's book? I loved it. I thought I knew clojure, but I learned quite a few things on every page corner.
07:26	Raynes	Yup.
07:27	Raynes	It's the first book I haven't just pirated in over a year.
07:27	Raynes	Well worth the money.
07:27	leafw	I couldn't sent my last reviews, the deadline was the 6th ... oh well, it stands quite nice as it is.
07:38	Lau_of_DK	In compojure, if I want a table with width: 100%, how do I output that?
07:43	Lau_of_DK	I get no love
07:45	orero	we love you Lau. we just don't know. ;-)
07:48	Lau_of_DK	phew - that makes it all better :)
07:54	Lau_of_DK	Man...
07:55	Lau_of_DK	After some 5 hours I finally get interactive compojure development working...
07:55	Raynes	Success.
07:55	Lau_of_DK	Turns out clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar have to be the same revision due to some change in "includes" something...
08:02	Lau_of_DK	(html [:table {:width "100%"} [:tr [:td "Hi there"]]])
08:02	Lau_of_DK	And thats how its done
08:03	Lau_of_DK	Man, I thought compojure was hard, but once I got Emacs involved, it became a kids game
08:03	Lau_of_DK	(sponsored by the Gnu foundation)
09:25	tashafa	question...
09:26	tashafa	any1 knows whats the easiest way to get a functions arguments as a seq (without using [& rest])?
09:35	Chousuke	What do you mean? :/
09:36	tkadlubo	tashafa: And what's wrong with [& rest]?
09:36	Chousuke	you mean have the args separate as well as in a seq?
09:36	Chousuke	map destructuring probably.
09:36	Chousuke	though I can never remember how that works...
09:38	blbrown	hope this come out right. Can I reference a function that hasn't been defined yet...in another namespace. E.g. if I am in the same namespace. (ns a1 (def abc)) ...where abc is defined in a2. (ns a2 (defn abc []) ... a2 is implemented after a1 is
09:38	blbrown	I tried and I get this error. aused by: java.lang.Exception: Name conflict, can't def styled-text because namespace: octane.toolkit.octane_main_window refers to:#'octane.toolkit.public_objects/styled-text
09:41	blbrown	Chousuke, see what I am saying?
09:42	tashafa	tkadlubo: I want to make sure the function can only recieve a certain number of arguments
09:43	Chousuke	blbrown: octane_main_window :uses public_objects, right?
09:44	Chousuke	blbrown: also: use hyphens in your namespace names instead of underscores. stylistic convention :)
09:44	blbrown	Chousuke yea, it is a cyclic dependcy thing I am trying to bypass
09:44	Chousuke	hmm
09:44	Chousuke	can't you use require instead?
09:44	blbrown	Chousuke, yea, I normally try to avoid underscores of the filenames because I work with older operating systems
09:44	Chousuke	and namespace-qualify the names.
09:45	blbrown	let me try that
09:46	blbrown	I am not keeping all lisp code conventions. The lisp gods will just have to be mad at me
09:46	Chousuke	as long as you stay away from camelcase
09:47	blbrown	hehe
09:59	pilkarn	(not (empty? playlist)) == playlist ?
10:02	Chousuke	pilkarn: nah.
10:02	Chousuke	pilkarn: you playlist could be [], which is empty, but still "true"
10:02	pilkarn	ah maybe thats why i had used that not empty?
10:03	Chousuke	might be..
10:03	Chousuke	if your playlist were a seq, though, then it being empty would mean it's nil
10:04	Chousuke	so you could test for (if (seq playlist)) where seq ensures it's a sequence
10:17	aperotte	In trying to write a class for clojure, I ran up against a Java issue. If anyone has any insight, please help :). I have an Object[] array that I want to contain arrays of different types (could be primitive or objects). How do I access the elements of the nested array. It seems that the usual [][] notation doesn't deal well with this.
10:20	Chousuke	hm /:
10:20	Chousuke	it should work just fine in Java
10:21	aperotte	I get a compile error that says array required, but java.lang.Object found
10:21	aperotte	I'll run a few more tests to make sure that's actually the problem.
10:36	Lau_of_DK	Hi all
10:38	aperotte	Hi Lau_of_DK
10:39	pilkarn	deos Java allow arrays of arrays with different types?
10:39	pilkarn	hihi lau
10:40	aperotte	Pilkarn: I can create it, by first creating an Object[]
10:40	aperotte	then filling it with arrays of various types
10:41	aperotte	I just can't get access to the elements once it's been filled (at least not in a convenient way)
10:43	pilkarn	ah ofc using object as type
10:44	pilkarn	post the code?
10:44	pilkarn	clojurebot: paste?
10:44	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
10:44	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
10:44	cp2	aperotte arrays are objects in java so you should have no problem storing them in an Object[], however when you access you will need to cast
10:45	aperotte	ahh ... that's what I was afraid of
10:46	aperotte	I wanted the code to be ignorant of the type of array inside ...
10:47	lisppaste8	aperotte pasted "heterogeneous arrays" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75516
10:47	cp2	oh
10:47	cp2	i see what you mean
10:48	cp2	uhmm
10:48	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: seen technomancy?
10:48	clojurebot	technomancy was last seen quiting IRC, 2304 minutes ago
10:48	cp2	i suppose you could do ((Object[]) Outer[0])[0]
10:48	cp2	although it might cry from trying to cast a primitive array to an object array
10:49	aperotte	exactly
10:49	aperotte	it's important to me to be able to have primitive arrays
10:50	cp2	well, java has autoboxing for primitive types, so using arrays of Integer and such should work
10:50	cp2	but then again i dont know what you are trying to use it for
10:51	aperotte	sorry, I'm trying to write an n-dimensional array class
10:51	aperotte	so it's important to be able to have unboxed primitive arrays
10:51	cp2	ah, i see
10:54	aperotte	hmm ... maybe it will work if I use one of the "collections" instead of the outer array
10:56	lisppaste8	sd pasted "compiling arraytets" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75518
10:56	pilkarn	im no Java expert(dont know it very well) but ^^ compile,s isnt that how you need to do?
10:57	pilkarn	hmm o that prints 1
10:57	pilkarn	oh it should
10:57	aperotte	I think the problem is that the 1 it prints is a boxed 1 instead of a primitive one
10:58	pilkarn	but if you want an array of arrays you have do declare object[][] not object[] ?
10:58	pilkarn	or isnt that necessary
10:58	pilkarn	or i guess ut shouldnt be since object means of any right?
10:59	cp2	aperotte: try System.out.println(Outer[0][0].getClass().getName());
10:59	cp2	to see if its boxed
11:00	cp2	acutally, that might print out java.lang.Integer either way
11:00	pilkarn	dude it is when you index it
11:01	tashafa	let me phrase this differently...
11:01	pilkarn	i think you cant do [i][i] unless it is statically proved to be an array
11:02	blbrown	when you do :import with namespace, can you qualify the java import
11:02	blbrown	E.g. (java.awt [Color :as AWTColor])
11:02	tashafa	is there a way to get the arguments of a current function (preferbly in a seq)?
11:03	blbrown	tashafa, have you looked at 'doc' not entirely what you want, but you might be able to look at the source for 'doc'
11:06	gnuvince_	electricity--
11:07	aperotte	pilkarn: I think you're right, I'll have to try another approach.
11:07	aperotte	cp2: it prints java.lang.Integer, but says the variable cannot be dereferenced if it's a primitive
11:07	aperotte	which seems to make sense
11:08	blbrown	clojure + jfreechart + swt = the awesome
11:08	tashafa	hmm this is not about documentation although i've looked there
11:10	tashafa	I have a function that takes 2 arguments, I want to be able to get thes 2 arguments in a seq without expicilty using (defn function [val1 val2] (let [values [val1 val2] ...
11:10	tashafa	surely theres a better way to do this...
11:11	tashafa	:edit explicity using the let keyword
11:12	tashafa	:edit expicitly
11:12	tashafa	cant type today
11:13	tashafa	explicitly*
11:13	gnuvince_	,((fn [[x1 x2 :as xs]] [x1 x2 xs]) 3 4)
11:13	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: sandbox$eval--1576$fn
11:13	gnuvince_	,((fn [[x1 x2 :as xs]] [x1 x2 xs]) [3 4])
11:13	clojurebot	[3 4 [3 4]]
11:14	tashafa	thanks!
11:14	gnuvince_	,((fn [& [x1 x2 :as xs]] [x1 x2 xs]) 3 4)
11:14	clojurebot	[3 4 (3 4)]
11:14	gnuvince_	,((fn [& [x1 x2 :as xs]] [x1 x2 xs]) 3 4 5)
11:14	clojurebot	[3 4 (3 4 5)]
11:18	tashafa	gnuvince_: hmm... but how would you ensure that fn only allowed for 2 arguments (i.e. throws illegalargument excpetion when fn arguements != 2)
11:19	tashafa	thanks again
11:19	tashafa	,((fn [[x1 x2 :as xs]] [x1 x2 xs]) [3 4 5])
11:19	clojurebot	[3 4 [3 4 5]]
11:25	gnuvince_	tashafa: that's what I'm trying to figure out.
11:26	gnuvince_	I'm unsure that you can do that.
11:28	tashafa	ah...its cool, your solution is close enough. I'm going to have to implement some kind of check somewhere else in the code. thanks!
11:31	gnuvince_	tashafa: I think it's more trouble than just having [x1 x2] personally
12:09	pilkarn	doesnt compile show any errors when it fails?
12:16	gnuvince_	Anyone know what the deal is with that wubbie person on the mailing lists?
12:21	pilkarn	whats it he synatx for requrie for not renaming?
12:21	pilkarn	(:require (progs.mp3player [utils :as utils]))
12:21	pilkarn	(:require (progs.mp3player.utils)) doesnt work and not (:require (progs.mp3player [utils]))
12:21	blbrown	gnuvince, there is a mailing list, hehe? you talking about the clojure/google group or a mailing list
12:26	gnuvince_	blbrown: The google group.
12:54	pilkarn	(:require (progs.mp3player.utils)) doesnt work and not (:require (progs.mp3player [utils]))
12:54	pilkarn	(:require (progs.mp3player [utils :as utils]))
12:54	pilkarn	how do you require normally without renaming?
12:56	Chousuke	(:require progs.mp3player.utils) or (:require progs.mp3player utils) iirc
12:56	Chousuke	oops, missing a set of parens from the latter :/
13:13	slashus2	Say I have a ref to a list of agents, what is the best way to alter the list of agents to add another agent?
13:13	durka42	in a transaction, you can use conj
13:14	slashus2	Okay, thank you.
13:14	durka42	adding to a list sounds like it might be a job for commute, although if order matters you would need alter
13:16	slashus2	I am trying to do something similar to the ant colony simulation that Rich Hickey showed in the concurrency presentation. I want to be able to add and destroy organisms (agents) on demand.
13:16	slashus2	Using a ref to a list or vector of agents may not be the best way.
13:23	slashus2	(dosync (alter a-few-refs conj ref)) just as an example, does not work.
13:23	slashus2	a-few-refs is a vector of refs right now.
13:23	slashus2	The error is that a PersistentVector cannot be cast to a Ref
13:25	ayrnieu	,(let [(ref afr (list (ref 0) (ref 1) (ref 2)))] (dosync (alter afr conj (ref -1))) (map #(inc @%) @afr))
13:25	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: let requires an even number of forms in binding vector
13:25	ayrnieu	,(let [afr (ref (list (ref 0) (ref 1) (ref 2)))] (dosync (alter afr conj (ref -1))) (map #(inc @%) @afr))
13:25	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3)
13:25	ayrnieu	WFM.
13:26	slashus2	Okay, I figured it out, thank you.
13:27	slashus2	One thing I didn't really take away from the talk, was the difference between send and send-off
13:28	ayrnieu	send uses a fixed-size thread pool, send-off uses an exandable pool.
13:29	ayrnieu	agents are emphermeral: they only represent a thread when they're running in a function that someone has sent to them.
13:31	slashus2	In practice, I can keep using send-off to increase the amount of agents?
13:31	ayrnieu	the number of concurrently active agents, you mean.
13:32	Chouser	you can keep using send-off on more agents to increase the number of threads running
13:32	ayrnieu	creating an agent is just (agent 0) -- this doesn't task a thread pool.
13:32	Chouser	though as the agents complete, they free up threads such that further send-offs can reuse them
13:33	slashus2	When using send, I would not be able to keeping using send?
13:33	ayrnieu	so if you really wanted, you could create a hundred threads by firing off agents that just sleep for a few seconds.
13:34	ayrnieu	the only difference between send and send-off is that send will not create a new thread if one is not available. The agent just won't run until one becomes available.
13:35	ayrnieu	(also, the pool is fixed in size. Maybe you can increase it to some application-sensible size through Java.)
13:35	slashus2	OOOh so I can keep using send, but no more threads will be created than the amount that I first used send with?
13:35	ayrnieu	send's pool is determined by the number of processors (cores?) you have.
13:35	slashus2	Oh that is really neat.
13:36	slashus2	Send-off just creates as many threads as agents that you send it, but send uses the number of threads equal to the amount of cores that you have?
13:37	ayrnieu	so, send-off creates a new thread if one isn't available.
13:37	ayrnieu	s/so/no/.
13:37	ayrnieu	it's still a thread pool, it still tries to reuse them.
13:38	slashus2	One isn't available includes when a thread is sleeping?
13:38	ayrnieu	and send's pool is not equal to the amount of cores that you have, it is determined by that amount. I think it's Processors+1.
13:40	ayrnieu	I assume that sleeping threads are considered unavailable; I don't know if they are.
13:43	slashus2	In the ant colony simulation, when using send-off, it creates 49 threads for ants, because there are 49 agents. Those agents run until the program closes. So in that case, when using send-off on another agent, it would increase to 50 threads?
13:44	slashus2	The reason I ask this, is because it doesn't seem to be working.
13:46	slashus2	I am trying to do this mid simulation. I "modify" the list of ant agents by adding a new agent. I then send off that agent to behave(an agent function), but the ant does not seem to be behaving.
13:47	ayrnieu	what do you mean, those agents run until the program closes? You mean that you call send-off once for each agent and never have to do this again because the agent is still in that function?
13:48	slashus2	(dorun (map #(send-off % behave) ants)) <-- this is called once where the beginning population of ants is created.
13:49	slashus2	Scenario: I create another agent and use send-off to the behave function.
13:50	slashus2	If I deref the agent, it seems to be moving. It must be a problem with the animation. So the problem isn't with my understanding of the agent system.
13:50	ayrnieu	so behave contains something like (send-off agent ...) , to loop?
13:51	slashus2	yes
13:52	slashus2	The original simulation is working. The other ants are behaving, and apparently so are these new ants.
13:52	slashus2	The animation system isn't picking up on the new ants.
13:52	ayrnieu	maybe your animator hang on to its original deref of your agent list?
13:53	ayrnieu	also, why don't you drop the list and just add-watcher an animator agent?
13:54	slashus2	I will look into that.
14:01	slashus2	Okay, this doesn't make sense. The ant is being drawn on the screen as a little line, when dereferencing the agent that represents that ant, it seems to be changing position, but the ant is not moving in the animation.
14:06	Chousuke	slashus2: does the redraw function know about your ant? or was drawing it part of behave? :/
14:08	slashus2	The redraw function does draw the little ant.
14:09	slashus2	Chousuke: The code I am working with is http://clojure.googlegroups.com/web/ants.clj
14:09	slashus2	I am just experimenting to learn.
14:09	pilkarn	do you mark impure functions with ! ? I find it helpful for debugging
14:21	slashus2	Chousuke: The only difference is at the bottom I am doing (def ants-ref (ref ants)) so that I am able to alter the list of ant agents.
14:21	Chousuke	ah, it does not work like that!
14:22	slashus2	As soon as I do (dosync (alter ants-ref conj (create-ant [20 20] (rand-int 8))))
14:22	slashus2	It paints the ant on the screen.
14:22	Chousuke	slashus2: you can't alter the ants list like that; the only thing you can alter is what the ref points to
14:22	Chousuke	you can't actually mutate anything
14:22	slashus2	Chousuke: the ants-ref points to a list of agents.
14:22	Chousuke	so the original ants list never changes
14:22	slashus2	It does indeed change the ants list
14:23	slashus2	Try it. While the program is running do the transaction I just did within the live repl.
14:23	slashus2	IF you look at ants, the new agent is added.
14:24	slashus2	On the animation, the new ant will be painted.
14:24	Chousuke	if you do (def ants [...]), then you can't change the list that ants is.
14:24	slashus2	...
14:24	Chousuke	you're seeing something else.
14:24	slashus2	How is the new ant painted onto the animation then?
14:26	Chousuke	create-ant adds it into the world
14:26	Chousuke	but that's not the ants list :)
14:26	slashus2	oh..
14:28	slashus2	How would you do what I am wanting to do.
14:28	slashus2	?
14:28	slashus2	It is hard to wrap my programming style around immutability.
14:29	Chousuke	you'll need to call (send-off behave your-new-ant) before it'll start moving I think
14:29	Chousuke	with your-new-ant being whatever the create-ant returns
14:30	slashus2	So I don't really need to add it to ants.
14:30	Chousuke	that's right
14:30	slashus2	head explodes
14:30	Chousuke	there's no way you could do it, really :)
14:30	Chousuke	the ant list is just a helper datastructure for the (dorun (map #(send-off % behave) ants))
14:31	Chousuke	hm, and that made me realise I had swapped the arguments to send-off :P
14:31	Chousuke	the ant of course comes first :)
14:31	slashus2	yey, it worked.
14:31	slashus2	question is now... how will I kill that ant?
14:32	slashus2	Just make the thread stop running under a certain condition?
14:32	durka42	set a flag somewhere and have the ants check it before recursing
14:32	Chousuke	ants.clj does not seem to allow killing individual ants.
14:32	slashus2	right
14:32	durka42	hmm, you could set it in the doomed ant's metadata
14:33	Chousuke	or just its state
14:33	Chousuke	it's a map, isn't it?
14:33	slashus2	set it in the ant agent data?
14:33	slashus2	:dead
14:33	Chousuke	when there's the (if running ...) check before it (when-not (:mustdie @agent))
14:34	silkarn	why does compile silently fail?
14:34	Chousuke	then you can kill an ant by doing (send-off ant assoc :mustdie true)
14:34	Chousuke	because it won't send behave to itself again
14:35	slashus2	Chousuke: Why must I send-off again? Won't the thread stop once I don't call (send-off agent #'behave) again?
14:35	Chousuke	you send that assoc from outside
14:35	Chousuke	ie. from the repl
14:36	Chousuke	you just need to add to behave a check for it.
14:36	slashus2	That meta-data can also be set from within the agent as well.
14:36	slashus2	agent function I mean.
14:36	Chousuke	which agent function? :)
14:36	slashus2	behave
14:36	Chousuke	how could you set that data from there?
14:37	Chousuke	it runs automatically.
14:37	Chousuke	you'd have to have a timeout or something
14:37	AWizzArd	clojurebot: max people
14:37	clojurebot	max people is 149
14:37	Chousuke	it's possible, but I thought you wanted to kill them manually :)
14:37	slashus2	can you not alter agents from within behave?
14:38	Chousuke	slashus2: you can only send-off new actions
14:38	Chousuke	the return value of an action becomes the ant's new state
14:38	slashus2	To alter agents you have to use send-off?
14:38	Chousuke	or send, but yes
14:39	slashus2	So it happens within a transaction; sort of like (alter)?
14:39	Chousuke	slashus2: you can of course do (send-off agent assoc :mustdie true) from inside behave, but why would you do that? :)
14:39	Chousuke	slashus2: nah; sends are just queued
14:40	slashus2	Chousuke: If you send off on an agent that already exists, it executes the action on it?
14:40	Chousuke	yeah, after all previously queued actions or running actions have finished
14:41	silkarn	I have a problem, if I def something that is passed to a function that def defs the symbol of the passed thing not the thing it self right?
14:41	Chousuke	silkarn: behave runs "forever" because it sends off itself to the agent that received the behave action.
14:42	Chousuke	er, slashus2
14:42	silkarn	so I have to sue refs if i want mutability inside clojure?
14:42	Chousuke	you have refs, agents and atoms
14:43	Chousuke	let's assume you have an ant running in the behave send-off loop
14:43	gnuvince_	I just saw Rich's post about first/more/rest. What do you guys think of keeping first and rest as is and having the function "tail" return possibly-empty-collection-of-the-remaining-elements?
14:44	slashus2	Chousuke: When I use send-off, does the function behave take the deref of the agent as an argument? behave takes [loc], which seems to be the deref of the agent?
14:45	Chousuke	yes.
14:45	Chousuke	now, you modify the behave function so that it has this: (when-not (:must-die @agent) (send-off agent #'behave))
14:46	Chousuke	then you can at any time kill an ant you have a reference to by doing (send-off myant assoc :must-die true)
14:46	slashus2	That is why I was a little confused when you did (send-off agent assoc :mustdie true). How do you know that the deref of agent isn't going to be used as an argument in that case?
14:46	Chousuke	that will cause myant's state to change so that (:must-die @myant) will return true
14:46	Chousuke	and the behave loop will end
14:47	slashus2	I understand that, but the seemingly inconsistent behavior confuses me.
14:47	Chousuke	slashus2: no, it's not inconsistent
14:47	Chousuke	slashus2: the first argument of assoc will still be the deref of the agent: a map
14:47	Chousuke	but that's what we want.
14:48	slashus2	The deref of agent will be something like [10 20]
14:48	Chousuke	,(assoc {:food 1} :mustdie true)
14:48	clojurebot	{:mustdie true, :food 1}
14:48	Chousuke	hmm
14:48	Chousuke	well that's a problem :(
14:48	Chousuke	I assumed it was a map
14:48	slashus2	It isn't a map.
14:48	slashus2	It is a vector
14:49	slashus2	with [x y]
14:49	silkarn	for an mp3player, what makes more sense, refs, agents or atoms?
14:49	Chousuke	slashus2: that makes the case more problematic
14:50	Chousuke	slashus2: since now you can only kill ants by their location
14:50	Chousuke	and I think that might have race conditions :/
14:50	Chousuke	or hm
14:50	Chousuke	not really
14:50	durka42	silkarn: what sort of state are you storing?
14:51	silkarn	durka42: state of the mp3player, i need some gloabl state to keep track of the current player-thread, playlsit etc
14:52	durka42	i would say probably refs, but it depends
14:52	silkarn	i used a lot of defs first but it is ugly so I am refectoring
14:52	durka42	because you do need synchronization
14:52	durka42	if you use refs any modifications must be done in transactions
14:52	Chousuke	silkarn: I don't think it's very easy to kill individual ants in ants.clj without significant changes.
14:53	Chousuke	silkarn: if behave took a map it'd be easy, but since it's a vector...
14:53	durka42	Chousuke: watch that tab completion
14:53	Chousuke	gah
14:53	Chousuke	slashus2: :P
14:53	Chousuke	silkarn: you're confusing!
14:54	slashus2	I could modify the behave function to take another argument, a map, and change the create-ant function to create an agent with another argument, a map.
14:54	slashus2	Do that difficult?
14:54	slashus2	Not*
14:55	slashus2	Of course, the (send-off my-ant assoc :dienow true) won't work because the deref of my-ant will have 2 arguments.
14:56	slashus2	Unless I added {:x 20 :y 20 :dienow false} as the only argument in the agent?
14:57	slashus2	That would work.
14:57	ayrnieu	rather than have a :dienow , you could (send-off my-ant #(do % nil))
14:59	slashus2	That would expand to (do [20 20] nil) ?
14:59	slashus2	Causing the ant to lose its sense of location, but still leaving a dead body on the screen.
15:00	ayrnieu	sure. The point is to throw away the single required argument, and to return nil.
15:00	ayrnieu	you could also (fn [_] nil)
15:05	pilkarn	so im elss confusing now
15:25	slashus2	In an agent function, is the current agent modified to whatever the agent function returns?
15:25	Chouser	yes
15:25	slashus2	yey I get it.
15:25	Chouser	:-)
15:27	rhickey	surprisingly, people are favoring optimal names on the more/rest/next question: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/88d9fdb5bcad36a
15:28	rhickey	maybe they don't have much code to port?
15:28	rhickey	;)
15:29	pilkarn	what happens when compile runs? it does static analysis and doesnt say what happens?
15:29	pilkarn	it just silently fails it seems
15:29	MarkVolkmann	Mental block here ... Why would I want to use commute instead of alter to change the value of a Ref? What's the benefit of reapplying the update functions invoked by commute when the transaction commits?
15:30	gnuvince_	commute should be done for operations where order doesn't matter
15:30	rhickey	MarkVolkmann: let's say every transaction needs to update a jobs-completed counter when it's done...
15:31	gnuvince_	if you have two threads that need to add 1 to a counter, it doesn't matter if thread1 does it before thread2, the counter will be 2 afterwards.
15:31	rhickey	if you use alter the jobs will have to serialize
15:31	rhickey	when they don't actually care what the resulting counter value is
15:33	MarkVolkmann	Ah ... "jobs will have to serialize". I haven't run across that before.
15:34	rhickey	MarkVolkmann: but that's strictly an optimization - if you are unsure use alter
15:34	gnuvince_	serialize in the sense "run one after another"
15:34	MarkVolkmann	What is it that causes a transaction to retry? Is it that a transaction attempts to change the value of a Ref that has been changed by another transaction since the current transaction started?
15:35	Bracki	Is anybody using gorilla for Vim?
15:36	cp2	just a minor question -- whats the "eta" on full laziness being in the main branch?
15:36	MarkVolkmann	I couldn't get Gorilla installed properly and gave up for now. I using VimClojure instead. I think Meikel is making improvements to Gorilla that will make it easier to install soon.
15:36	rhickey	MarkVolkman: yes
15:36	pilkarn	what happens when compile runs? it does static analysis and doesnt say what happens?
15:36	pilkarn	it seems to compile fine but then when i run it ha sno main
15:36	mattrepl	rhickey: that's the good part about having a community of CL expatriates and early adopters in general, a dislike of legacy for its own sake
15:38	gnuvince_	I agree that the time to get things right is not in 2-3 years when a lot more people depend on Clojure.
15:38	hircus	hi all
15:39	hircus	has there been any recent Clojure/SLIME regression? I had a working set-up on Linux, but on OS X, I could get a basic slime+clojure repl working but there's no tab-completion of forms
15:39	ayrnieu	mattrepl - bitter but superficial comments about CL do not make an expatriot.
15:39	hircus	e.g. (defn foo TAB
15:39	Chouser	hm, someone want to digg or reddit my blog post before it becomes obsolete? ;-)
15:41	gnuvince_	hircus: do you have the "normal" SLIME REPL with user> or do you have the inferior-lisp's user=> prompt?
15:41	hircus	gnuinferior lisp
15:41	mattrepl	ayrnieu: or more general, not all that dislike aspects of CL and use Clojure are expatriots
15:41	ayrnieu	hircus - does ESC-Tab complete it?
15:41	hircus	gnuvince_: inferior lisp.
15:42	hircus	ayrnieu: "No tags table loaded; try M-x visit-tags-table
15:42	ayrnieu	mattrepl - in which case, their legacy aversion is meaningless.
15:42	gnuvince_	hircus: something changed in slime recently with regards to the repl. In your .emacs, you need: (require 'slime) (slime-setup) (require 'slime-repl) (slime-repl-init)
15:42	mattrepl	masochistic?
15:42	hircus	my SLIME knowledge is limited to getting it to work with SBCL and Clojure
15:42	hircus	aha. let me just try that
15:42	durka42	hmm, it was already in /r/lisp, but not /r/clojure
15:42	gnuvince_	(make sure that slime/contrib is in your load path)
15:43	hircus	doh I think I did something like that on my Linux machine a few days ago. something about it not loading the full repl by default anymore?
15:43	gnuvince_	Yeah
15:43	lisppaste8	gnuvince pasted "slime config" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75533
15:43	gnuvince_	This is my configuration
15:44	ayrnieu	I have (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) , and needed the slime-fancy to get the cool stuff.
15:44	hircus	gnuvince_, ayrnieu got it fixed now. thanks.
15:44	gnuvince_	hircus: happy to help
15:44	gnuvince_	ayrnieu: what's in slime-fancy?
15:45	ayrnieu	gnuvince - slime-repl , for one.
15:45	gnuvince_	ah
15:45	gnuvince_	nice
15:45	hircus	does slime-asdf does anything for Clojure, or is it more for when using Common Lisp?
15:45	ayrnieu	hircus - it's for CL.
15:46	hircus	ah ok
15:46	hircus	thanks, you two
15:50	gnuvince_	ayrnieu: does slime-interrupt work for you?
15:53	ayrnieu	gnuvince - I haven't set clojure up with slime.
15:58	Bracki	Ah I've made Gorilla work for me. The problem was to explicitly set maplocalleader. I had assumed it would be the same setting as localleader.
16:01	gnuvince_	ayrnieu: ok
16:10	durka42	Bracki: a fellow gorilla user!
16:26	Bracki	Hm I seem to miss something. How do I import/refer/use clojure contrib?
16:26	durka42	you use particular libraries from it
16:26	AWizzArd	Bracki: you don't import it, but you require it
16:26	durka42	(use 'clojure.contrib.math)
16:27	AWizzArd	Bracki: (require '[clojure.contrib.duck-streams :as ds])
16:28	AWizzArd	(line-seq (ds/reader "https://www.microsoft.com/"))
16:34	blbrown	did clojure get some kind of award from a software magazine. I thought I read that somewhere
16:35	Bracki	Does this channel have a pastebin?
16:36	blbrown	Bracki http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp I am sure lisp paste would work fine
16:36	durka42	~paste
16:36	clojurebot	lisppaste8, url
16:36	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
16:36	durka42	blbrown: your link will announce in #lisp
16:37	lisppaste8	bracki pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75539
16:37	Bracki	So what's going on wrong there. I'm trying to use contrib.test_is
16:38	durka42	test-is, not test_is
16:38	durka42	hmm, it works when i do (use 'clojure.contrib.test-is)
16:39	Bracki	hm, same problem.
16:39	Bracki	you just copy/pasted into the repl?
16:40	durka42	(require '[clojure.contrib [test-is :as test-is]])
16:40	durka42	then test-is/is
16:40	durka42	or use works
16:44	pilkarn	(defn fac [n] (reduce #(* %1 %2) (range 1 (inc n)))) , does that build the list lazily or is it first created O(n) then reduced over O(n) ?
16:44	durka42	reduce should be lazy
16:45	Bracki	durka42: that works.
16:45	durka42	and i think range is too
16:45	rhickey	durka42: range is lazy, reduce is always eager - it reduces its args to a single result
16:45	Bracki	what does "works" do?
16:45	durka42	i meant, or use works
16:45	durka42	,use
16:45	clojurebot	#<core$use__4964 clojure.core$use__4964@5084c6>
16:46	durka42	oh, right, of course
16:47	Bracki	ah.
16:50	pilkarn	id i have (fun btn f) where f is a function that takes several args and fun is a function. if i dont want f to be evaluated directly but later when btn is prsed, then i wrap the whole f call in # ? (fun btn #(f x y z)) ?
16:58	Chousuke	pilkarn: f is not called if you just pass it as an argument
16:58	Chousuke	pilkarn: the notation #(f 1 2 3) is just a literal function that calls f with the arguments 1, 2 and 3
16:59	Chousuke	#(f) is equivalent to f
16:59	Chousuke	or well
16:59	Chousuke	actually, nto
16:59	Chousuke	only if f takes no arguments :)
17:05	Bracki	How do I split a list in two lists?
17:07	hiredman	,(doc split-with)
17:07	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns a vector of [(take-while pred coll) (drop-while pred coll)]"
17:07	ayrnieu	that depends on what relationship you want the two lists to have to the list.
17:08	Bracki	in half, split a list of integers in the "middle".
17:09	blbrown	Chouser, were you telling me about the O'Reilly algorithms books? I got it, don't know how I should approach it
17:10	ayrnieu	,(split-at 2 [1 2 3 4 5])
17:10	clojurebot	[(1 2) (3 4 5)]
17:11	blbrown	,(split-at "," ["klsdklfjslkdjflksjdlf, kljsldfjslkdjflksd"])
17:11	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
17:11	blbrown	,(split-at '," ["klsdklfjslkdjflksjdlf, kljsldfjslkdjflksd"])
17:12	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:EOF while reading string
17:12	blbrown	,(split-at ',' ["klsdklfjslkdjflksjdlf, kljsldfjslkdjflksd"])
17:12	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$split-at
17:12	ayrnieu	,(doc split-at0
17:12	pilkarn	hmm cant clojrue import mutually? ie ns/file X imports function from Y and Y imports a function from X ? I use declare somehow?
17:12	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:EOF while reading
17:12	ayrnieu	,(doc split-at)
17:12	clojurebot	"([n coll]); Returns a vector of [(take n coll) (drop n coll)]"
17:14	ayrnieu	,(map str (split-with #(= % \,) "klsdklfjslkdjflksjdlf, kljsldfjslkdjflksd"))
17:14	clojurebot	("" "(\\k \\l \\s \\d \\k \\l \\f \\j \\s \\l \\k \\d \\j \\f \\l \\k \\s \\j \\d \\l \\f \\, \\space \\k \\l \\j \\s \\l \\d \\f \\j \\s \\l \\k \\d \\j \\f \\l \\k \\s \\d)")
17:14	hiredman	blbrown: there are several things wrong with what you were trying
17:14	ayrnieu	that's actually better than ("clojure.core$take_while__3672$fn__3674@c4bf9ef" "clojure.core$drop_while__3696$fn__3702@c4bf9ef") , a buggy return from my build.
17:14	hiredman	a charater in clojure is preceded by a \
17:14	blbrown	hiredman, I was just messing around
17:14	pilkarn	hmm cant clojrue import mutually? ie ns/file X imports function from Y and Y imports a function from X ? I use declare somehow?
17:14	ayrnieu	pilkarn - no.
17:15	hiredman	\,
17:15	hiredman	not ','
17:15	Bracki	So how do I get the length of a list?
17:15	blbrown	it is count
17:15	blbrown	I think most people are used to 'len' or 'length'
17:15	blbrown	,(count [1 2 3])
17:15	clojurebot	3
17:16	pilkarn	ayrnieu: no what?
17:16	ayrnieu	pilkarn - the answer to your questions are "no".
17:16	pilkarn	len would ahve been better but whatever
17:16	pilkarn	and count could then have been (count 1 [1 2 3 1]) -> 2
17:17	pilkarn	ayrnieu: and there is no solution to that?
17:18	blbrown	,(def length count)
17:18	clojurebot	DENIED
17:18	hiredman	,(split-with #(= % \,) "klsdklfjslkdjflksjdl, kljsldfjslkdjflksd")
17:18	clojurebot	[nil (\k \l \s \d \k \l \f \j \s \l \k \d \j \f \l \k \s \j \d \l \, \space \k \l \j \s \l \d \f \j \s \l \k \d \j \f \l \k \s \d)]
17:18	blbrown	pilkarn, that is what I do...shrug
17:18	Bracki	,(doc /)
17:18	clojurebot	"([x] [x y] [x y & more]); If no denominators are supplied, returns 1/numerator, else returns numerator divided by all of the denominators."
17:18	ayrnieu	pilkarn - sure. You could not do that. You could separate these functions out into their own namespace. You could put the mutually-dependent modules in the same namespace. You could look into clojure's guts and propose a declaration. You could patch the namespace after load instead of doing it through 'use'.
17:19	Bracki	Can somebody explain that to me? I want division without remainder, no floats or anything.
17:19	hiredman	,(int \,)
17:19	clojurebot	44
17:19	hiredman	,(split-with #(= (int %) 44) "klsdklfjslkdjflksjdl, kljsldfjslkdjflksd")
17:19	clojurebot	[nil (\k \l \s \d \k \l \f \j \s \l \k \d \j \f \l \k \s \j \d \l \, \space \k \l \j \s \l \d \f \j \s \l \k \d \j \f \l \k \s \d)]
17:19	ayrnieu	,(unchecked-divide 7 3)
17:19	clojurebot	2
17:21	pilkarn	how much work would a mp3-decoder be?
17:21	Chousuke	in clojure? :/
17:21	hiredman	pilkarn: just use a java mp3lib
17:22	hiredman	,(split-with #(not= (int %) 44) "klsdklfjslkdjflksjdl, kljsldfjslkdjflksd")
17:22	clojurebot	[(\k \l \s \d \k \l \f \j \s \l \k \d \j \f \l \k \s \j \d \l) (\, \space \k \l \j \s \l \d \f \j \s \l \k \d \j \f \l \k \s \d)]
17:23	hiredman	,(map (partial apply str) (split-with #(not= (int %) 44) "klsdklfjslkdjflksjdl, kljsldfjslkdjflksd"))
17:23	clojurebot	("klsdklfjslkdjflksjdl" ", kljsldfjslkdjflksd")
17:23	Bracki	what yields index of item in list?
17:24	hiredman	lists are not index
17:24	ayrnieu	,(.indexOf "hello" "l")
17:24	clojurebot	2
17:25	hiredman	indexed
17:25	ayrnieu	(.indexOf [1 2 3 4 5] 4)
17:25	hiredman	if you want an indexed data structure use a vector
17:26	Bracki	Ok, what I actually wanted to do is solve some of these to get me going with clojure. http://codekata.pragprog.com/2007/01/kata_two_karate.html
17:26	ayrnieu	,(.indexOf '(a b c d e) 'c)
17:26	clojurebot	2
17:27	hiredman	Bracki: hit up project euler and start working through it with clojure
17:28	hiredman	ayrnieu: of course, but it has to walk the list
17:28	hiredman	wait
17:28	hiredman	actually for vectors it would too
17:28	hiredman	nm
17:29	Bracki	Alright, thats exactly what I was looking for.
17:31	Bracki	But same problem. What's modulo in clojure?
17:32	hiredman	,(doc mod)
17:32	clojurebot	"([num div]); modulus of num and div."
17:32	Bracki	Does that come from contrib?
17:32	Bracki	Cause it's not listed on the api page.
17:32	ayrnieu	,`mod
17:32	clojurebot	clojure.core/mod
17:33	ayrnieu	,[(mod -1 3) (rem -1 3)]
17:33	clojurebot	[2 -1]
17:33	lenst	,(meta #'mod)
17:33	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name mod, :file "core.clj", :line 1864, :arglists ([num div]), :doc "modulus of num and div."}
17:33	Bracki	http://clojure.org/api#mod -> no result.
17:36	hiredman	and?
17:36	ayrnieu	,(.contains (keys (ns-publics 'clojure.core)) 'mod)
17:37	clojurebot	true
17:37	Bracki	That means that my version of clojure doesn't have it as well, cos i'm usisng the latest "official" relase.
17:37	hiredman	Bracki: type mod into the repl
17:37	Bracki	Gorilla=> (.contains (keys (ns-publics 'clojure.core)) 'mod)
17:37	Bracki	false
17:38	hiredman	what release are you using?
17:38	Bracki	Just wrote that, the latest from google code, 2008/12/17.
17:39	hiredman	no kidding
17:39	hiredman	shrug
17:40	ayrnieu	,(map :name (filter #(and (:doc %) (.contains (:doc %) "mod")) (map meta (vals (ns-publics 'clojure.core)))))
17:40	clojurebot	(derive with-precision ensure require underive mod)
17:40	hiredman	~def mod
17:41	ayrnieu	probably goatse.
17:41	Bracki	Thx. See here http://code.google.com/p/clojure/source/browse/branches/20081217/src/clj/clojure/core.clj no mod
17:42	hiredman	actually it is the definition of mod
17:42	hiredman	Bracki: yeah, we established that you have no mod
17:43	Chouser	Bracki: but 'rem' is close
17:43	hiredman	but there is the def of mod, you can copy and paste it
17:43	Chouser	,(rem 7 5)
17:43	clojurebot	2
17:43	ayrnieu	,(map #(.getName %) (all-ns))
17:43	clojurebot	(clojure.set hiredman.sandbox hiredman.clojurebot.seenx hiredman.clojurebot.dice hiredman.clojurebot.sb org.danlarkin.json.decoder user hiredman.clojurebot.google clojure.main org.danlarkin.json clojure.core hiredman.clojurebot.translate org.danlarkin.json.encoder clojure.zip sandbox hiredman.clojurebot hiredman.clojurebot.forget hiredman.utilities hiredman.clojurebot.core clojure.xml hiredman.clojurebot.svn hiredman.pque
17:49	pilkarn	man my mp3player is around 250-300 lines of code, written in clojure completely but a lot of java-wrapping. doe sit sound reasonable? just making a simple player was basically no code at all but making laylists, stop next play etc and makign sure evrything works added so much code
17:50	hiredman	~translate to sp the plains in spain in the rain
17:50	hiredman	huh
17:50	Bracki	Regarding the project euler thingy, how do I filter a list twice, or rather combine the result of two filter passes to a new list?
17:51	pilkarn	yes an mp3-decoder in Clojure. I already am using mlayer and it is ok but lacks some features. im mostly interesting un learning basic signal processing, and it seems like a fun project that would teach me a lot.
17:51	ayrnieu	Bracki, that depends on what relationship you want the combined list to have to the two lists.
17:52	ayrnieu	,(filter #(zero? (mod % 3)) (filter #(zero? (mod % 13)) (range 200)))
17:52	clojurebot	(0 39 78 117 156 195)
17:53	ayrnieu	,(filter #(and (zero? (mod % 3) (mod % 21))) (range 400))
17:53	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$fn
17:53	Bracki	Yeah but I want to OR the filters not AND them.
17:53	Chousuke	just use or then
17:53	ayrnieu	,(filter #(and (zero? (mod % 3)) (zero? (mod % 21))) (range 400))
17:53	clojurebot	(0 21 42 63 84 105 126 147 168 189 210 231 252 273 294 315 336 357 378 399)
17:54	Chousuke	you can't separate the lists that way though
17:56	pilkarn	yes an mp3-decoder in Clojure. I already am using mlayer and it is ok but lacks some features. im mostly interesting un learning basic signal processing, and it seems like a fun project that would teach me a lot.
17:56	pilkarn	how can you compose filter and filter?
17:56	ayrnieu	,(meta (var compose))
17:56	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: compose in this context
17:57	blbrown	If I define this structure. Is this an PersisentArrayMap or StructMap. I thought it would be a 'struct' map: { :tag :af, :attrs {:timestamp "Feb 14 06:02:17 2009", :id 1 }
17:57	blbrown	{ :tag :af, :attrs {:timestamp "Feb 14 06:02:17 2009", :id 1 } }
17:57	pilkarn	, (def ff (comp filter filter))
17:57	clojurebot	DENIED
17:57	ayrnieu	,(doc comp) ;; bleh, I won't replace the doc with "DON'T USE THIS YOU EVIL ESCAPEE FROM HASKELL"
17:57	clojurebot	"([& fs]); Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the composition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, applies the rightmost of fns to the args, the next fn (right-to-left) to the result, etc."
17:57	pilkarn	(ff #(< % 15) #(> % 10) (range 20))
17:58	pilkarn	, (let [ff (comp filter filter)] (ff #(< % 15) #(> % 10) (range 20)))
17:58	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: core$filter
17:58	hiredman	composing filter like that will not work
17:58	hiredman	filter takes more than one argument
17:58	hiredman	but (like all functions) only returns one
17:59	pilkarn	so you can only compsoe functions with arity 1?
17:59	pilkarn	so compose is good in haskell because all fucntions are currried?
17:59	pilkarn	but not in clojure?
17:59	ayrnieu	why do you ask "you can only?" like that? comp is just a clojure function.
17:59	hiredman	yes
17:59	Chousuke	(filter #(or (> 10 %) (< 2 %)) [1 2 3 4 5 12 70 100])
17:59	Chousuke	,(filter #(or (> 10 %) (< 2 %)) [1 2 3 4 5 12 70 100])
17:59	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 12 70 100)
18:00	Chousuke	hm
18:00	Chousuke	well that wasn't very useful :(
18:00	Chousuke	,(filter #(or (< 10 %) (> 2 %)) [1 2 3 4 5 12 70 100])
18:00	clojurebot	(1 12 70 100)
18:00	Bracki	How do I unpack a list?
18:00	pilkarn	can i get the arity of a function at runtime?
18:00	ayrnieu	Bracki - that depends on what you mean why 'unpack'.
18:00	hiredman	if you want to do a lot of composing you have to uncurry functions by hand
18:01	Chousuke	pilkarn: :arglists in metadata
18:01	hiredman	Bracki: unpack?
18:01	Chousuke	,(:arglists ^#'filter)
18:01	clojurebot	([pred coll])
18:01	Bracki	the sum of the list by passing a list to: (+ '(1 2 3))
18:01	hiredman	Chousuke: that only works are functions stored in vars
18:01	ayrnieu	,(:arglists (meta (fn [_] 1)))
18:01	clojurebot	nil
18:01	hiredman	Bracki: apply
18:01	Chousuke	true
18:01	pilkarn	and that metadata is gened automatically?
18:02	Chousuke	pilkarn: it exists for defn'd functions
18:02	hiredman	pilkarn: there is no way to get arity information from an arbitrary function
18:03	pilkarn	why does reduce give arity 2? (reduce + coll) ok but (reduce #(+ %1 %2 3) 0 coll) -> arity 3
18:03	ayrnieu	,(doc reduce)
18:03	hiredman	uh
18:03	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val is supplied, returns the r
18:03	hiredman	,(:arglists ^#'reduce)
18:03	clojurebot	([f coll] [f val coll])
18:04	hiredman	^- two arg lists
18:07	ayrnieu	If you want to produce code as fantastic and worthless as the Haskell community has trained itself to do with that language's horrifically maldesiged^W^Wfeatures, then you'll have to do a bit of work to make this possible. And Clojure still won't have the piles of syntax sugar to give the result a veneer of acceptability.
18:07	hiredman	cough
18:08	pilkarn	how can I do (convert-to-vector java-LinkedList) ?
18:08	hiredman	(doc vec)
18:08	clojurebot	Creates a new vector containing the contents of coll.; arglists ([coll])
18:08	hiredman	coll in the docs means Collection
18:09	hiredman	,(doc instanceof?)
18:09	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: instanceof? in this context
18:09	hiredman	,(doc instanceof)
18:09	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: instanceof in this context
18:09	ayrnieu	but if this is a Java linked list and not a clojure PersistentList, you can get an iterator from it and then use iterator-seq
18:10	ayrnieu	,(map :name (filter #(and (:doc %) (.contains (:doc %) "instance")) (map meta (vals (ns-publics 'clojure.core)))))
18:10	clojurebot	(re-pattern instance? init-proxy re-matcher read .. seque memfn accessor class? construct-proxy get-proxy-class struct-map proxy-mappings update-proxy proxy struct gen-class make-array)
18:11	hiredman	,(instance? (java.util.LinkedList.) java.util.Collection)
18:11	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.LinkedList cannot be cast to java.lang.Class
18:11	durka42	,(find-doc "instance")
18:11	clojurebot	------------------------- clojure.main/repl ([& options]) Generic, reusable, read-eval-print loop. Reads from in and writes to out. in must either be an instance of LineNumberingPushbackReader or duplicate its behavior of both supporting .unread and collapsing CR, LF, and CRLF into a single \newline. Options are sequential keyword-value pairs. Available options and their defaults: - :init, function o
18:11	durka42	oh, i forgot that prints out the doc and not just the names
18:11	hiredman	,(vec (java.util.LinkedList.))
18:11	clojurebot	[]
18:12	hiredman	,(vec (java.util.LinkedList. 1))
18:12	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to java.util.Collection
18:12	hiredman	,(vec (java.util.LinkedList. [1 2 3 4]))
18:12	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
18:12	hiredman	yay java.util.Collection!
18:14	cp2	can somebody tell me the equivalent of say, int.class ?
18:14	hiredman	,(java.util.Collections/shuffle (java.util.LinkedList. [1 2 3 4]))
18:14	clojurebot	nil
18:14	hiredman	ugh
18:14	cp2	actually, nevermind
18:14	ayrnieu	,[(class 1) Integer/TYPE]
18:14	clojurebot	[java.lang.Integer int]
18:14	cp2	i just realised that what i asked isnt relevant to my problem
18:15	cp2	well, it is, but in a different way
18:17	hiredman	1d2
18:17	clojurebot	2
18:17	pilkarn	(LinkedList. (make-array Integer (count [1 2 3]))) -> java.lang.ClassCastException: [Ljava.lang.Integer; cannot be cast to java.util.Collection (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
18:17	pilkarn	, why?
18:17	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: why? in this context
18:17	hiredman	,(doc make-array)
18:17	clojurebot	"([type len] [type dim & more-dims]); Creates and returns an array of instances of the specified class of the specified dimension(s). Note that a class object is required. Class objects can be obtained by using their imported or fully-qualified name. Class objects for the primitive types can be obtained using, e.g., Integer/TYPE."
18:17	pilkarn	ayrnieu: why is haskell code so worthless? i find it extremely elegant, clojure inspired rhickey a lot I think.
18:18	hiredman	pilkarn: a java array is not a Collection
18:18	durka42	,(use 'clojure.contrib.lazy-seqs) (random-permutation [1 2 3 4])
18:18	clojurebot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/lazy_seqs__init.class or clojure/contrib/lazy_seqs.clj on classpath:
18:20	hiredman	clojure's datastructures are Collections, so they can be passed to LinkedList directly
18:20	hiredman	,(java.util.LinkedList. [1 2 3 4])
18:20	clojurebot	#<LinkedList [1, 2, 3, 4]>
18:22	pilkarn	clojurebot: contrib?
18:22	clojurebot	contrib is http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
18:22	pilkarn	i want to shuffle a vector
18:23	hiredman	,(doto (java.util.LinkedList. [1 2 3 4]) java.util.Collections/shuffle)
18:23	clojurebot	#<LinkedList [1, 3, 2, 4]>
18:24	hiredman	,(vec (doto (java.util.LinkedList. (range 10)) java.util.Collections/shuffle))
18:24	clojurebot	[4 5 3 9 8 1 2 0 6 7]
18:24	hiredman	,(vec (doto (java.util.LinkedList. (range 10)) java.util.Collections/shuffle))
18:24	clojurebot	[3 9 0 7 2 4 6 8 1 5]
18:25	Chousuke	,(java.util.Collections/shuffle [1 2 3])
18:25	clojurebot	java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException
18:25	Chousuke	hee
18:29	Bracki	In the REPL how do I reuse the last returned value?
18:30	durka42	*1
18:30	durka42	2, 3
18:30	pilkarn	thanks
18:31	pilkarn	ayrnieu: you still didnt answer whats so bad about haskell?
18:31	pilkarn	and roughly how much code is an mp3decoder? anyone know? 500 loc, 3000?
18:33	Chousuke	pilkarn: that's a useless question
18:33	Chousuke	pilkarn: it depends too much on the language, the features wanted, skill and even just coding style.
18:33	pilkarn	yes but there is a bound anyhow
18:33	Chousuke	anyway, I don
18:34	Chousuke	I don't think Clojure is suitable for an mp3 decoder
18:34	Chousuke	If I were to write one I'm quite sure I'd use C
18:35	zakwilson	I've done some simple image processing in Clojure. I think an MP3 decoder is feasable.
18:35	hiredman	poor stuart
18:36	durka42	"When faced with this, apply the following method: try the simplest possible thing, and if it doesn't satisfy you, try the next simplest thing."
18:36	durka42	i like it
18:38	hiredman	pilkarn: I suggest you go write a mp3 decoder then you will have an empiracally arrived at number for the loc needed to implement a mp3 decoder
18:39	hiredman	no need for guessing games
18:39	pilkarn	no i just asked, perhas soemone had done one and then they could say my C mp3 decoder was 2000loc or my java decoder was 1000loc and then id have a slight idea
18:40	hiredman	mp3 decoding is not a piece of code people write much these days, it is a librarythey consume
18:41	hiredman	it is 2009, I would hope we can call mp3 decoding a "solved problem"
18:44	pilkarn	sure but one might be interested in learning about signal processing
18:44	pilkarn	and unfortuneately jlaye sucks even though it is a "solved problem"
18:47	hiredman	if you are intrested in learning about signal processing, why not just write the thing?
19:16	pilkarn	if i start a new process do all refs need to be passed to that then while if i use a new thread those threads share the refs?
19:20	Chouser	pilkarn: threads all share the same memory, so all the same globals are available whether they are refs, vars, file handles, buffers, whatever.
19:21	Chouser	to communicate with a different process you'll need to use some kind of IPC mechanism -- sockets, "shared memory" objects, environment variables, etc.
19:30	blbrown	I think RIch is too smart to write the documentation
19:31	blbrown	...meaning, I can't understand what he is saying
19:33	durka42	where?
19:34	AWizzArd	btw, did the idea (def [x y z] [10 :hello {:a 1, :b 2}]) already die or is there a chance that we can get this? :)
19:35	blbrown	durka42, http://clojure.org/runtime_polymorphism
19:38	AWizzArd	,(doc future)
19:38	clojurebot	"([& body]); Takes a body of expressions and yields a future object that will invoke the body in another thread, and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent calls to deref/@. If the computation has not yet finished, calls to deref/@ will block."
19:39	AWizzArd	,(time @(future))
19:39	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 1.058 msecs"
19:40	MarkVolkmann	Is there a function that detects whether a symbol is defined?
19:41	MarkVolkmann	I want to base an action on that. If I don't check, I get an exception that says "Unable to resolve symbol".
19:41	technomancy	MarkVolkmann: find-var?
19:42	MarkVolkmann	That must be in a contrib library.
19:42	technomancy	nope; it's in clojure.core
19:42	MarkVolkmann	Ah ... I thought it had a question mark on the end.
19:42	technomancy	oh; heh
19:42	AWizzArd	MarkVolkmann: resolve
19:45	pilkarn	what i the alternative to polling?
19:45	technomancy	is it possible to make custom data types that are callable like functions the way maps and vectors are?
19:45	technomancy	I'd like to be able to do something like ((date 2008 2 28) :month) => 2
19:46	technomancy	but I suspect that might need to dip into Java
19:46	pilkarn	if date creates a hashmap it is guess
19:46	technomancy	I'd like it to be a new data type, but I can do that if there's no other way
19:46	pilkarn	put data in a namespace
19:47	hiredman	clojurebot: multimethods?
19:47	clojurebot	multimethods seperate the 20% from the 80%
19:48	technomancy	hiredman: often times the intent behind your clojurebot invocations are not always clear. are you trying to say that I could implement call-able data types with multimethods?
19:50	hiredman	technomancy: ah, no, I was reacting to blbrown, 15 minutes ago
19:50	pilkarn	lol
19:50	MarkVolkmann	Is there an idiom for insuring that some code in a .clj file is only run the first time that file is loaded?
19:51	hiredman	(doc defonce)
19:51	clojurebot	defs name to have the root value of the expr iff the named var has no root value, else expr is unevaluated; arglists ([name expr])
19:51	pilkarn	, (do (defn make-date [y m d] {:year y :month m :day d}) ((make-date 2008 12 02) :month))
19:51	clojurebot	DENIED
19:51	pilkarn	denyn youself biatch
19:51	pilkarn	, deny youself biatch
19:51	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: deny in this context
19:52	MarkVolkmann	Won't defonce just define something once? I want to execute a chunk on code just once. In particular, I want to start a thread only the first time this source file is loaded.
19:52	technomancy	MarkVolkmann: runonce is defined in lancet, might be helpful.
19:53	hiredman	MarkVolkmann: according to the docstring, the expr is not evaled if a root binding already exists
19:53	Chouser	(defonce mythread (Thread. #(...))) should do it.
19:53	Chouser	yeah, like hiredman said.
19:53	MarkVolkmann	Thanks!
19:53	hiredman	(defonce q (do some stuff here))
19:56	xoox	What is the proper way to filter on the children of a node that has been selected by filtering? "(xml-> (xml1->" is giving me heap errors.
19:56	lisppaste8	sd pasted "date namespace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75559
19:58	pilkarn	^technomancy: ^^ but perhaps you know that approach already, just giving an exmaple of how I would do. namespaces + hashmaps + multimethods does most/all things I need from objectorientation
19:58	pilkarn	oh he left
19:59	pilkarn	the more i program in clojure the more objectorientation just feels like obfuscation. it complicates my code rather than simplifie sit.
20:05	hiredman	~translate to de the plains in spain in the rain
20:05	clojurebot	die Ebenen in Spanien im Regen
20:05	hiredman	hmmm
20:12	blbrown	german>?
20:13	Chouser	xoox: can you paste an example that demonstrates the problem?
20:14	xoox	Chouser: Yes, give me two minutes.
20:18	lisppaste8	xoox pasted "xml-zip filtering" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75560
20:20	xoox	Chouser: ^
20:23	blbrown	http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8665/screenshot3sk9.png more on my clojure app, monitor garbage collection statistics
20:26	Chouser	xoox: fetch-dom ?
20:27	xoox	Chouser: Sorry, it is essentially (xml-zip (xml/parse url)). I will update the paste.
20:27	lisppaste8	xoox annotated #75560 with "fetch-dom" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75560#1
20:28	pilkarn	~translate to de scheisskopf
20:28	clojurebot	scheisskopf
20:28	pilkarn	~translate to de Ich bin geil
20:28	clojurebot	Ich bin geil
20:28	blbrown	~translate nein
20:28	pilkarn	~translate to de I am awesome
20:28	clojurebot	Ich bin genial
20:28	hiredman	~translate from de scheisskopf
20:28	Chouser	xoox: sorry, gotta go for a minute. I'll be back soon.
20:28	pilkarn	~translate to eng Ich bin geil
20:28	blbrown	~translate to eng dogs
20:28	hiredman	~translate from de scheisskopf
20:28	clojurebot	scheiss kopf
20:29	xoox	Chouser: I'll be around for about an hour an a half. Thanks in advance for any pointers.
20:29	pilkarn	~translate do de hired man
20:29	blbrown	hiredman, are you do some kind of REST request to babelfish or something
20:29	hiredman	blbrown: google translate
20:29	blbrown	ah
20:29	hiredman	man
20:30	hiredman	translate needs a lot of polish, it throws a lot of exceptions
20:30	xoox	~translate to de Mehr licht.
20:30	clojurebot	Mehr Licht.
20:30	xoox	~translate from de Mehr licht.
20:30	clojurebot	More light.
20:30	blbrown	~translate from de Nein
20:30	clojurebot	No
20:31	blbrown	~translate to de beer
20:31	clojurebot	Bier
20:31	blbrown	~translate to de I like cats
20:31	clojurebot	Ich mag Katzen
20:31	blbrown	~translate to de I like Java
20:31	clojurebot	Ich mag Java
20:31	blbrown	~translate to de I like clojure
20:31	clojurebot	Ich mag clojure
20:32	xoox	~translate from de Alles Gescheite ist schon gedacht worden. Man muss nur versuchen, es noch einmal zu denken.
20:32	clojurebot	Everything is quite intelligent thought. You just have to try once again to think.
20:33	blbrown	xoox, really needs a text to speech wav output. Then we can hear what is printed. I'm just saying, if you want feature complete hehe
20:40	Chouser	xoox: I think it's just returning a really large object. Printing it at my repl just spews tons of text.
20:41	Chouser	but if I do (def matches (xml-> (xml1-> ...))), that works ok, though of course its lazy
20:42	Chouser	But then I can say (node (last matches)) and get a sane result rather quickly.
20:47	xoox	Chouser: Okay thanks. I guess I was just being misled and assuming an error caused by trying to print the object was a problem with the code.
20:49	Chouser	you're quite welcome. I'm very much aware that the use of neither clojure.zip nor zip-filter is particularly objvious, and there's essentially no documentation on the concepts behind either.
20:49	Chouser	I keep meaning to write some kind of tutorial or something, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
20:51	xoox	Chouser: By the way, is that the "correct" way to search only one branch of the tree? Find the element and then filter on its descendants?
20:52	Chouser	Off the top of my head, that's the only way I can think of.
20:53	AWizzArd	btw, did the idea (def [x y z] [10 :hello {:a 1, :b 2}]) already die or is there a chance that we can get this? :)
20:53	Chouser	each iteration of each filter step only has access to the one loc -- its starting point.
20:54	Chouser	In order to examine the whole set of matching locs in order to do something like pick the first one, then you have to step outside the xml-> expression. I think.
20:54	Chouser	though if there's only one branch that matches up to that point there's no harm at all in putting the remaining filter expressions in the same xml->
20:55	Chouser	AWizzArd: I don't think anyone ever approached Rich with that idea.
20:57	AWizzArd	I thought you did.
20:57	AWizzArd	some months ago
20:58	AWizzArd	anyway... n8 n8
21:58	MarkVolkmann	I assumed that conj always added to the end of vectors, but it seems I was wrong.
21:58	Chouser	?
21:58	danlarkin	bzzzt
21:58	MarkVolkmann	What's the best way to create a new vector with an item added to the end of an existing one.
21:58	MarkVolkmann	Are you saying conj always does that?
21:58	danlarkin	conh
21:58	danlarkin	conj, sorry
21:59	Chouser	conj on a vector adds to the right-hand side
21:59	Chouser	conj on a list adds to the left
21:59	MarkVolkmann	Hmm, I'll recheck my code to see why I thought it wasn't doing that.
21:59	ayrnieu	(map #(conj % 1) [[-1 1] (2 3)])
21:59	ayrnieu	,(map #(conj % 1) [[-1 1] (2 3)])
21:59	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
22:00	ayrnieu	oh, it swallowed the quote. Stupid apple keyboard.
22:01	MarkVolkmann	It's some weird multithreading timing issue.
22:02	hiredman	lets see some example code
22:02	MarkVolkmann	I'll gladly paste it if you want, but I don't want to burden everyone. I think I can describe the situation.
22:03	MarkVolkmann	I'm making two calls to a function in succession.
22:03	MarkVolkmann	The function starts a transaction and adds the string argument to a vector that is the value of an atom.
22:03	MarkVolkmann	They sometimes get added in the reverse order of my calls.
22:04	hiredman	lets see some code
22:04	MarkVolkmann	The combination of dosync and swap! may be adding some uncertainty about the order in which the strings get conj'ed to the vector.
22:04	MarkVolkmann	Does that sound plausible?
22:04	MarkVolkmann	I'll paste the code.
22:05	hiredman	lisppaste8: url?
22:05	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
22:05	Chouser	if you care about the order, you should not use 'swap!' in a transaction
22:06	lisppaste8	mvolkmann pasted "logger.clj" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75563
22:07	lisppaste8	mvolkmann annotated #75563 with "client code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75563#1
22:07	MarkVolkmann	So the first paste is logger.clj which provides a log function.
22:07	MarkVolkmann	The purpose is to allow multithreaded code to do printlns that won't get intermingled.
22:08	Chouser	besides order, a 'swap!' in a transaction could be retried -- you could get the same thing added multiple times.
22:08	MarkVolkmann	For example, I don't want one thread to log "The sky is blue", another to log "The grass is green" and see the output "The sky The is grass is blue green"
22:09	MarkVolkmann	The client code just calls log with any number of arguments which are concatenated to form a message.
22:09	hiredman	swap! should not be in a transaction
22:09	MarkVolkmann	Oh, I thought it had to be in a transaction.
22:10	Chouser	no
22:10	hiredman	I think in this case you would be better off with a ref anyway
22:10	Chouser	but I think you need a transaction, in order to avoid a race condition with the empty check, etc.
22:10	MarkVolkmann	I started with that, but changed to an atom since I'm only coordinating change to a single value.
22:10	Chouser	...which means a ref
22:11	MarkVolkmann	Oh, right! I knew that, but forgot.
22:11	MarkVolkmann	Okay, I'll rework it to use a ref.
22:11	MarkVolkmann	Thanks for the advice!
22:18	gnuvince_	Hello
22:18	Chouser	gnuvince_: hi
22:19	gnuvince_	How's it going, Chouser?
22:20	Chouser	pretty well, thanks. and you?
22:21	gnuvince_	Not bad at all. My project is going forth nicely.
22:24	gnuvince_	~seen ayrnieu
22:24	clojurebot	ayrnieu was last seen in #clojure, 23 minutes ago saying: oh, it swallowed the quote. Stupid apple keyboard.
22:25	ayrnieu	?
22:36	gnuvince_	ayrnieu: I had a problem with slime-fancy, I fixed it by selectively enabling the contrib modules I wanted.
22:36	ayrnieu	oh well.
22:38	gnuvince_	But it was in the REPL, and I recall you saying you didn't use it with Clojure.