#clojure – 2009-02-14

2009-02-14

00:02	durka42	,(* 9.35 7)
00:02	clojurebot	65.45
00:04	durka42	,(/ 9.35 15)
00:04	clojurebot	0.6233333333333333
00:05	durka42	,(/ 9.35 0.5)
00:05	clojurebot	18.7
00:06	Chouser	?
00:06	durka42	so i used a lazy language instead
00:30	blbrown	just an observation, if you have a proxy function... (proxy [Proxy] [] (func []) ...if
00:30	blbrown	if Proxy is not defined, you get a nullpointerexception, is that normal
00:33	Chouser	what would you prefer it do?
00:36	ayrnieu	"Dear blbrown, your attempt to proxy an undefined Proxy on line 33 of yourprogram.clj has failed for this reason: Proxy does not exist. Maybe you meant Proxine? Would you like me to edit this change into yourprogram.clj and try what you were doing again?"
00:36	Chouser	hm, not bad.
00:37	blbrown	hehe
00:38	blbrown	Im just saying
00:38	hiredman	,(a 'b)
00:38	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context
00:38	hiredman	hmmm
00:38	Chouser	even better "...Maybe you meant foo.bar.Proxy? I tried that instead and although it compiled, the formal names of some of the methods do not seem to fit well with superclass argument names, so you may wish to review this code."
00:38	ayrnieu	(declaim (speed 0) (safety 3) (clear-error-messages (fact 400)))
00:39	blbrown	,(proxy [RunnableX][] (run [] (println foo))
00:39	clojurebot	Eval-in-box threw an exception:EOF while reading
00:39	blbrown	,(proxy [RunnableX][] (run [] (println foo)))
00:39	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
00:39	blbrown	yea
00:39	blbrown	,(proxy [Runnable][] (run [] (println foo)))
00:39	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission accessDeclaredMembers)
00:59	blbrown	Modius, you from Austin?
02:42	danlarkin	happy valentine's day, clojurecrats!
02:43	Raynes	Happy valentines day danlarkin.
02:44	blbrown	yea...random thought. I wonder why Yahoo didn't buy twitter, hmm
02:47	danlarkin	because they need cash flow, not another non-revenue producing acquisition :)
02:49	albino	cashflow for the twitter people though
03:01	blbrown	danlarkin, twitter will make cash, maybe not now, but guaranteed they will.
03:01	danlarkin	blbrown: easier forecast than done
03:59	zargon_	(map #([%]) [1 2 3])
03:59	zargon_	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: LazilyPersistentVector
03:59	zargon_	Why is that?
04:00	zargon_	if I use a defn makevec instead of the anonymous function it works ...
04:03	zargon_	(map (fn [x] [x]) [1 2 3]) works too
04:53	cgrand	zargon_: #([%]) expands to (fn [x] ([x])) not to (fn [x] [x])
04:53	cgrand	,(map vector [1 2 3])
04:53	clojurebot	([1] [2] [3])
05:03	zargon_	cgrand: thx
06:20	turbo24prg	morning
06:20	turbo24prg	is it possible to change pr's behaviour to print objects?
06:21	turbo24prg	or is it necessary to create a new multimethod that dispatches on the type?
06:28	turbo24prg	i'd like to hook up common lisp to a clojure script with a repl-server (on the clojure side)
06:29	turbo24prg	but CL's reader won't understand brackets or braces
06:46	zakwilson	A couple of reader macros could make CL understand the brackets and braces.
06:49	turbo24prg	yeah, that's another way
06:50	turbo24prg	i'd love to see some decent clojure/CL interaction possibility, but currently a repl-sockets seems the only possibility
09:23	kilp	, (+ 4 5 6)
09:23	clojurebot	15
09:23	kilp	, (/ (+ 4 5 6) 2)
09:23	clojurebot	15/2
09:24	kilp	, (/ (+ 4 5 6) (float 2))
09:24	clojurebot	7.5
09:24	kilp	(import '(javax.swing JPane))
09:24	kilp	, (import '(javax.swing JPane))
09:24	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.swing.JPane
09:24	kilp	, (import '(javax.swing JFrane))
09:24	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: javax.swing.JFrane
09:24	kilp	, (str "clojurebot" " sucks" " at" " importing")
09:24	clojurebot	"clojurebot sucks at importing"
09:25	kilp	(+ " hello" "there")
09:25	kilp	, (+ " hello" "there")
09:25	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
09:25	kilp	, (mod 5 2)
09:25	clojurebot	1
09:25	kilp	, (rem 5 2)
09:25	clojurebot	1
09:25	kilp	, (div 5 2)
09:25	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: div in this context
09:25	kilp	(/ 5 .0)
09:26	kilp	(/ 5 0)
09:26	kilp	(/ 5 1)
09:26	clojurebot	suffusion of yellow
09:26	kilp	, (/ 5 1)
09:26	clojurebot	5
09:26	kilp	, (/ 5 1.0)
09:26	clojurebot	5.0
09:26	kilp	why did he say that all the sudden?
09:40	lisppaste8	Chouser pasted "my first stream-creator" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75472
09:40	Chouser	is an atom the best way to do that?
09:41	rhickey	Chouser: it's the best Clojure offers, but those cases could be more lightweight
09:42	rhickey	I've thought about simpler reference type - 'box', but am holding off so far
09:43	Chouser	ok, but the explicit state is at least necessary.
09:43	rhickey	Chouser: I was wondering why for the if thing you didn;t just write a macro that defines if itself, removing any conditionality from if itself (other than the LazySeq test)
09:43	rhickey	Chouser: yes, state needed - are you switching to streams now?
09:44	Chouser	not really, but dipping my toe in I guess.
09:49	Chouser	as for the 'if' thing, I can take another run at it if you want. I didn't think the extra test at compile time was worth trying to avoid.
09:50	rhickey	Chouser: trying your patch now
09:50	Chouser	I want to make sure the value of the property at compile time is used also at runtime. my first patch didn't have that, and it makes it pretty easy to think you've got the assert on when in fact only some cases are being checked.
09:57	rhickey	Chouser: No matching field found: isEmpty for class java.lang.String
09:58	Chouser	1.5?
09:59	Chouser	there's a whole lot of clojure missing at that spot in core
09:59	rhickey	Chouser: yeah, it's hard working up there isn't it? :)
10:00	Chouser	it really is
10:00	rhickey	Util and RT have a lot though
10:00	Chouser	but it's feels weird to have, right, all of the methods of all of the classes.
10:00	rhickey	Util/equals
10:01	rhickey	Chouser: gotta start somewhere
10:01	Chouser	.isEmpty was my 3rd or 4th attempt. :-)
10:01	rhickey	until we rewrite Clojure in Clojure
10:03	Chouser	you should be careful with such statements -- people will hold you to it.
10:05	rhickey	Chouser: at some point I'm likely to increase the generality of the underpinnings of fn to be a full class generator...
10:05	rhickey	It's actually kind of arbitrary that it only generates IFn derivees
10:05	Chouser	lazy-seq was giving me a bit of that impression
10:05	rhickey	exactly
10:06	kilp	Android acepts paid applications now! wooooot! did anyoen got something significant running on android wrritten in clojure going?
10:07	rhickey	A few tweaks and it could gen almost anything, and with no indirection (and thus no dynamism) could compete for speed with the parts of Clojure now written in Java
10:10	rhickey	Chouser: so what's your impression of lazy branch? hard port? more elegant lazy fns of your own?
10:15	Chouser	lazy branch is good.
10:16	Chouser	I don't think I'll miss nil puns much for new code
10:17	Chouser	even with the assert property, fixing existing puns is a bit of a pain
10:18	rhickey	Chouser: did you have a lot of them? was it more than just adding a seq call?
10:18	Chouser	I had one that I spotted visually, pondered for a while, decided it was ok, but was then caught by the assert.
10:18	Chouser	no, not many
10:18	Chouser	just a 'seq' call every time
10:18	clojurebot	svn rev 1281; [lazy] added (optional) detection of conditional test of LazySeq, build with: ant -Dclojure.assert-if-lazy-seq=true patch from Chouser
10:19	Chouser	in this one case, the assert stack trace confused me, and I spent a while hunting it down
10:19	Chouser	the seq was created in one place, stored in a map elsewhere, and punned in a third spot. The assert of course didn't point out where the seq was created.
10:21	rhickey	Chouser: I think the assert will be a big help in the porting phase - thanks!
10:21	kilp	can anyone show an example of drawing some lines or shapes on a JFrame usign java graohics2D?
10:22	rhickey	Chouser: how about 'more'? I think keeping the semantics of rest was critical to making this idea work, but left with new more function
10:25	Chouser	rhickey: you're welcome. I enjoy participating in the language creation process without having to make any of the hard decisions. :-)
10:25	Chousuke	heh
10:26	pjb3	I'm trying to figure out how to use require from the REPL
10:26	pjb3	I'd like to do the equivalent of
10:26	pjb3	(ns foo (:require [clojure.xml :as xml]))
10:26	Chouser	rhickey: you're asking if I think (rest x) == (seq (more x)) is necessary?
10:27	pjb3	without the ns
10:27	pjb3	(require [clojure.xml :as xml]) doesn't do it
10:28	pjb3	(require '[clojure.xml :as xml])
10:28	pjb3	that works
10:28	Chouser	kilp: It's a Frame instead of a JFrame, and there some other complexity in there, but... http://gist.github.com/40012
10:29	Chouser	rhickey: uses of lazy-cons to lazy-seq were easy find and easy to fix (though i've not tested the actual laziness of any of them yet).
10:29	rhickey	Chouser: no, I'm wondering if you've thought of a brilliant name for 'more'
10:30	rhickey	I'm pretty sure changing the semantics of rest (to mean what more does) would have been a disaster
10:32	Chouser	in lazy we have seq, sequence, and sequential to mean slightly different things, right?
10:32	Chouser	'more' might accurately be called 'sequential-rest'?
10:32	lisppaste8	kilp pasted "listener" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75474
10:33	kilp	^^ how do I generate that in clojure?
10:33	leafw	kilp: with a proxy.
10:34	rhickey	Chouser: more currently guarantees Sequence, not Sequential
10:35	leafw	kilp: see example of proxy usage for an interface here: http://pacific.mpi-cbg.de/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=fiji.git;a=blob;f=plugins/Examples/Command_Launchers/Command_Launcher_Clojure.clj;hb=HEAD
10:36	rhickey	Chouser: best names would probably be: rest (now more), rest-seq (now rest)
10:37	Chouser	but of course 'rest-sequence' is too long and 'rest-seq' isn't right.
10:38	Chouser	rhickey: are you considering those, or would that be too much of a breaking change for 'rest'?
10:40	rhickey	What I found was that there were plenty of acceptably eager uses of rest in terminal/consuming code, and far fewer calls to rest that needed to become more in lazy-sequence fns
10:40	Chouser	ok, that doesn't surprise me.
10:40	rhickey	so changing rest would be much needless grief
10:40	Chouser	sure
10:40	Chouser	on the other hand while 'more' is not inaccurate, it's not a terribly helpful name.
10:40	rhickey	plus an incompatibility with other Lisps where rest/cdr is eager
10:40	blbrown	how would I send a class to a java method (E.g. String.class)
10:41	rhickey	so new functionality gets new name
10:41	kilp	are processor registers stacks?
10:41	kilp	what doe smore do?
10:41	rhickey	Chouser: agreed, more is not a great name
10:41	Chouser	I already have trouble remembering which is more and which is rest.
10:41	leafw	blbrown: just use String, without the .class
10:41	Chouser	but as you said, 'rest' isn't terribly common, so it could afford to be a bit long I'd think.
10:42	rhickey	Chouser: which 'rest'?
10:42	blbrown	leafw, that is what I thought, hmm
10:42	Chouser	but maybe not 'rest-sequence' longer
10:42	Chouser	sorry!
10:42	Chouser	I meant 'more' :-P
10:42	Chouser	I meant 'more' isn't terribly common.
10:43	rhickey	rest-coll?
10:43	Chouser	let's call it that for the rest of this discussion, shall we?
10:44	rhickey	call it what?
10:44	rhickey	whose on first? :)
10:44	rhickey	who's
10:44	Chouser	(rest-coll myvec) seems to be the same as (rest myvec)?
10:45	rhickey	too similar?
10:45	Chouser	no, I was reaching the opposite conclusion.
10:46	Chouser	this is a hard conversation.
10:46	rhickey	:)
10:46	rhickey	what dod you mean by "rest-coll myvec) seems to be the same as (rest myvec)" ?
10:46	Chouser	I was thinking that if rest-coll does anything sensible on other kinds of collections (besides LazySeqs) that 'rest-coll' might indeed by a fine name.
10:47	rhickey	user=> (rest-coll [1 2 3])
10:47	rhickey	(2 3
10:47	rhickey	)
10:47	Chouser	right
10:47	rhickey	same as more
10:48	Chouser	oh
10:48	kilp	public class ExitListener extends WindowAdapter {
10:48	rhickey	user=> (more [1 2 3])
10:48	rhickey	(2 3)
10:48	kilp	(proxy ExitListener (WindowAdapter
10:48	Chouser	wait... rest-coll is more, istn' it?
10:48	kilp	?
10:48	rhickey	user=> (more [1])
10:48	rhickey	()
10:48	Chouser	oh, man.
10:48	rhickey	Chouser: yes, rest-coll as a new name for more
10:49	Chouser	ok, good. for a moment there I was very worried.
10:49	kilp	public class ExitListener extends WindowAdapter {
10:49	kilp	public void windowClosing(WindowEvent event) {
10:49	kilp	System.exit(0);
10:49	leafw	kilp: use http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure
10:50	Chouser	right, so if some misguided soul calls 'rest-coll' on their vector because they know that vector is a coll and don't realize they can just use 'rest', no harm is done.
10:50	Chouser	the '-coll' in the name isn't lying or misleading.
10:51	lisppaste8	kilp pasted "how to use proxy?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75475
10:51	Chouser	it's longer than 'rest' which helps suggest it's less commonly used, which I think is accurate.
10:52	leafw	kilp: did you see the TextListener example above?
10:52	rhickey	Chouser: well, if they wanted the nilling effects of rest, rest-coll wouldn't be the same
10:53	rhickey	There's also lazy-rest, which implies a delay to me, but would match lazy-seq
10:53	Chouser	ah, I see you already demonstrated that to me. :-)
10:53	rhickey	user=> (rest [1])
10:53	rhickey	nil
10:53	rhickey	user=> (lazy-rest [1])
10:54	rhickey	()
10:54	rhickey	does that seem weird?
10:54	Chouser	yes, I don't think lazy-rest is too good. lazy-seq-rest would be more accurate.
10:54	rhickey	etc?
10:55	Chouser	I think rest-coll is my favorite so far. It works on colls, returns a coll (not a ISeq/nil).
10:55	Chouser	etc's not better than more
10:59	kilp	leafw: yes i look at it but dont quite get it
11:00	rhickey	more->rest, rest->next might be best possible names, compatibility aside
11:05	kilp	how do I write System.exit(0); from Clojure?
11:06	kilp	(.exit System 0) ?
11:06	Chousuke	(System/exit 0)
11:06	Chousuke	/ for static fields
11:06	Chouser	kilp: good guess though, I think that used to work. :-)
11:06	Chousuke	yeah, but not any more :)
11:06	Chousuke	unless Class has a .exit field :/
11:07	Chouser	rhickey: sure, 'more->rest' is a fine name. :-) I gotta go, have fun making the hard decisions.
11:07	rhickey	nice
11:10	leafw	by the way: on the web page, the search field does not accept function names like "->"
11:10	kilp	very schemey with using ->
11:10	lisppaste8	kilp annotated #75475 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75475#1
11:11	kilp	is that somehow correct?
11:14	leafw	kilp: that defn returns nil. IS that what you want?
11:22	pilk	leafw
11:22	pilk	no
11:22	pilk	iw ant to add an exitaction to the frame
11:25	pilk	when the user presses X I want to do some stuff
11:25	pilk	how?
11:26	lisppaste8	leafw annotated #75475 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75475#2
11:28	pilk	thanks
11:28	pilk	public void windowClosing(WindowEvent event
11:28	pilk	and i never have to mention WindowEvent?
11:28	Chousuke	leafw: you don't need to call create-exit there? /:
11:29	leafw	yeah
11:29	leafw	too tired
11:29	leafw	the frame is not shown either.
11:30	lisppaste8	leafw annotated #75475 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75475#3
12:33	shoover	rhickey: is the .net contrib you mentioned a few weeks ago public or private?
12:34	gnuvince_	Hey
12:34	gnuvince_	Can anyone tell me how to "use" the hasclojure property in clojure-contrib's build.xml?
12:34	gnuvince_	(so that the .clj are compiled to .class files)
12:35	rhickey	shoover: should be in contrib soon - watch the group for an announcement by the author
12:35	rhickey	possibly this weekend
12:35	shoover	rhickey: thanks. my talk is Thursday, and I've love to have something to tell
12:38	danlarkin	gnuvince: -Dclojure.jar=/path/to/clojure.jar
12:39	gnuvince_	ah!
12:39	gnuvince_	I was doing -Dhasclojure=/path/to/clojure.jar
12:56	gnuvince_	Is it possible to have more than one Available task in an if with Ant?
12:56	gnuvince_	Like, <target name="foo" if="predicate1,predicate2">...</target>
12:59	zargon_	how do I "map" a list to a map with key=list[i] and value=f(list[i]) ?
12:59	zargon_	my solution would involve a loop ... but there must be a better more "idiomatic" way?
13:02	ayrnieu	,(let [lst (range 10) f #(* % -1)] (apply hash-map (interleave lst (map f lst))))
13:02	clojurebot	{0 0, 1 -1, 2 -2, 3 -3, 4 -4, 5 -5, 6 -6, 7 -7, 8 -8, 9 -9}
13:03	kotarak	,(let [lst (range 10)] (zipmap lst (map #(* % -1) lst)))
13:03	clojurebot	{0 0, 1 -1, 2 -2, 3 -3, 4 -4, 5 -5, 6 -6, 7 -7, 8 -8, 9 -9}
13:03	kotarak	Many ways to Rome... (and back again)
13:03	zargon_	zipmap!
13:03	zargon_	thx guys
13:37	Lau_of_DK	Good evening everyone
13:41	danlarkin	oh hi lau :)
13:42	Lau_of_DK	Hi Dan, what did you decide?
13:43	danlarkin	haha
13:43	danlarkin	neither!
13:43	Lau_of_DK	Cruel - Then what?
13:44	danlarkin	well, sorry to disappoint but I am still nameless. I really tried though, I swear! I talked it over with friends last night for as long as they could stand and the best we came up with was "copter"
13:45	Lau_of_DK	haha, man... you need more friends like me
13:45	Lau_of_DK	How about "Mohito" ?
13:45	Lau_of_DK	Or its prolly spelled 'Mojito'
13:46	danlarkin	I wish hansard were a better name
13:46	Lau_of_DK	So pick Hansard,
13:47	Lau_of_DK	I mean, if thats the best you can come up with, then thats that :) We will suffer it
13:51	danlarkin	well you've got some time... right now it won't build, I'm in the middle of a circular dependency issue, so I won't be uploading until I work this out
13:52	Lau_of_DK	ok
14:08	clojurebot	svn rev 1282; [lazy] renamed rest to next, renamed more to rest
14:12	Lau_of_DK	rhickey_: Thats a little odd, why name rest => next?
14:13	cgrand	I tend to think of next as frest
14:13	Lau_of_DK	Are you thinking lazily ? :)
14:17	rhickey	cgrand: it's the next seq object, if any
14:18	rhickey	I've updated this: http://clojure.org/lazier
14:18	cp2	hello ragnard
14:18	cp2	er, rhickey
14:20	rhickey	I'm not sure I'm going to do this, but I had to try it to see what it looks like and get feedback. It took me about 45 minutes to convert Clojure itself, so I think it is a manageable change (basically rename all rest calls to next, except those in lazy fns)
14:20	rhickey	I like the resulting code - next means next seq/cursor, rest means rest of the collection
14:21	rhickey	cp2: hi
14:25	rhickey	cgrand: what I found in porting core was that most recur calls use next, and most lazy-seq conses use rest, which match the imperative/lazy semantics well
14:26	rhickey	open to feedback, including OMG please don't!!
14:26	rhickey	:)
14:27	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Cant you just put some sample code in the pastebin ? :)
14:29	rhickey	http://code.google.com/p/clojure/source/diff?spec=svn1282&r=1282&format=side&path=/branches/lazy/src/clj/clojure/core.clj
14:29	Lau_of_DK	Clever :)
14:32	danlarkin	my only problem with next is it kinda sounds like it'd be frest
14:32	danlarkin	but I can get over that
14:32	rhickey	danlarkin: you mean second :)
14:33	rhickey	danlarkin: but yes, I understand, cgrand thought so too
14:33	rhickey	it could be next-seq or something else more explicit
14:34	danlarkin	mmhmm
14:35	Chouser	I don't know if I would have thought that, but I don't see how 'rest' doesn't mean the next lazy-seq obj.
14:35	rhickey	Chouser: note the next in your sentence
14:36	Chouser	yes, hense the confusiong over why 'next' means something else.
14:36	rhickey	it doesn't
14:36	Lau_of_DK	(def a [1 2 3]) (def b (next a)), is b then [2 3] ?
14:37	rhickey	(next aseq) == next seq object or nil there isn't one
14:37	rhickey	(rest x) a collection of items other than the first
14:37	Chouser	'next' now means "the next ISeq, or nil", and 'rest' now means "the next LazySeq", right?
14:38	Lau_of_DK	But you said that you just renamed rest? Which was why I thought it was weird
14:38	rhickey	Chouser: sorry, didn't catch the lazy- in your sentence
14:38	Chouser	ah
14:38	Chouser	hard hard hard conversation. I'm sure it'd be bad in person in front of a white board, but not this bad.
14:38	ayrnieu	is clojurebot on lazy?
14:39	rhickey	rest doesn't promise lazy-seq, or have anything to do with lazy necessarily, better to think of as a collection of the rest of the items other than the first
14:39	ayrnieu	,(more [1 2 3])
14:39	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: more in this context
14:40	rhickey	next -> next seq/cursor or nil , rest -> collection of rest of items, may be empty
14:40	Chouser	is it ever going to start returning sub-vectors or (disj (first mymap))?
14:40	Lau_of_DK	Got it
14:41	rhickey	Chouser: nope, because it promises that collection will be a Sequence
14:41	rhickey	important because macros need to use sequence fns to create logical lists distinguishable from vectors/maps
14:42	rhickey	and form-consuming code often needs to partition by list/not
14:42	jwinter	I also thought next would mean second, it feels a little strange that it returns a sequence and not an element. Naming things is hard.
14:42	rhickey	such code (e.g. the compiler) will use Sequence
14:44	rhickey	jwinter: it's tru some iteration protocols use next to return the next item, but also have the side effect of moving cursor. In a functional iteration protocol (which is what seqs are), it can only do one or the other
14:44	hiredman	it might be easier for people to decide which one to use if they were called rest and lazy-rest
14:44	rhickey	hiredman: I think we put that to rest earlier
14:45	hiredman	oh
14:47	jwinter	What are the names for lazy-cdr in other languages?
14:47	Chouser	I think I still prefer rest+rest-coll over anything as ambiguous as 'more' or 'next'
14:48	rhickey	Chouser: what about rest and next-seq ?
14:49	Chouser	it'd be worried about the -seq being misleading, as it doesn't mean the same kind of thing as the 'seq' function returns.
14:49	Chouser	next-coll would be great.
14:49	rhickey	durka42: more would be gone, and rest/next are not synonyms in my book, a benefit
14:49	rhickey	Chouser: it means exactly the same thing
14:50	rhickey	returns seq or nil
14:50	durka42	true, those aren't really synonyms
14:50	rhickey	Chouser: ah, rest being current (more) and rest-seq being current (rest)
14:52	rhickey	sorry, next-seq being current rest
14:52	Chouser	ah. oh. um...
14:52	rhickey	(rest x) -> a collection, (next-seq x) -> a seq or nil
14:52	Chouser	sheesh. yeah, I guess that'd be ok.
14:53	Chouser	except that's the longer name for the more common case.
14:53	rhickey	right, thus next
14:53	Chouser	and 'rest' would still exist but mean something different.
14:53	Chouser	eh.
14:53	gnuvince_	with ant, how can you view the available tasks?
14:54	rhickey	the core code looks good once you detach yourself from a preconception of next == second
14:54	gnuvince_	It doesn't appear to be documented in ant -h
14:55	rhickey	next is imperative, rest is lazy
14:55	Chouser	I think I still prefer rest == (seq (rest-coll x)) and rest-coll
14:55	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: when you say that next != second, is that because next is more like frest?
14:55	Chouser	or maybe next == (seq (rest-coll x)) and rest-coll. That'd be ok.
14:56	rhickey	Chouser: hmmm, I don't like rest-coll, begs what does -coll mean?
14:57	Chouser	it takes a coll and returns a coll
14:57	rhickey	Chouser: so do lots of things
14:58	rhickey	seqs are colls too
14:58	Chouser	but nil is not
14:59	rhickey	I like rest and next because those are the words I'd use in sentences describing the behavior, independent of the implementation
15:00	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: frest == second
15:01	Lau_of_DK	k
15:01	rhickey	many many people complain that the return value of rest can't be 'empty', but it's pretty easy to understand there might be no next thing
15:01	rhickey	thus nil
15:02	Lau_of_DK	Thats true
15:02	Lau_of_DK	I really liked the whole read-once concept, thats an intuitive way to consume a seq in my oppinion
15:04	jwinter	gnuvince: does ant -projecthelp do what you want?
15:04	Chouser	Experimental branches of Clojure -- http://blog.n01se.net/?p=39
15:07	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: Great blog you got
15:08	rhickey	Chouser: nice! and with an example that conveniently doesn't use more/rest-coll/next/whatever :)
15:09	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: You've got a definate meanstreak
15:09	gnuvince_	jwinter: yes, thanks!
15:09	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: no, I meant that as a compliment strictly
15:09	Chouser	rhickey: heh, yeah, I've been marvelling to myself that the discussion here wasn't invalidating my post.
15:09	Lau_of_DK	oh :)
15:10	rhickey	Chouser: exactly!
15:10	gnuvince_	I wrote a build.xml file for my project, but I've never used ant before
15:13	rhickey	I guess an alternative is to have only (rest x) -> collection, since (next x) is just (seq (rest x)), but that will just beg for next to be written (and named)
15:13	rhickey	seq-rest?
15:14	Lau_of_DK	I dont really see the problem in just sticking with 'rest'
15:14	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: rest meaning what?
15:14	Lau_of_DK	Dont consider the names, but (seq (rest-coll x))
15:14	Lau_of_DK	So just get a seq or nil, from whatever is left
15:15	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: that still leaves naming 'rest-coll'
15:15	rhickey	which must be added for lazier, not derived behavior
15:16	Lau_of_DK	true
15:16	hiredman	rest-
15:16	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: that was my first take (a revert away from this point), leave rest alone and add 'more'
15:16	rhickey	but the names are bad
15:17	Lau_of_DK	I never disliked 'more' actually, what dont you like about it?
15:17	Lau_of_DK	Its as intuitive as next
15:18	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: it's more of a synonym for rest, and implies almost nothing about the difference
15:19	Lau_of_DK	So how about adopting your syntax-tweak for streams, having rest and rest*, making that a convention for clojure?
15:26	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: I'm not sure * conveys anything
15:27	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: It conveys nothing, thats why it should be a convention - but perhaps it was a dumb idea :)
15:27	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: which one is rest* ?
15:28	Lau_of_DK	You get to decide, you can make the convention, but I'd think rest == (seq (rest* x)) would make the most sense
15:29	Chouser	rhickey: without the assert patch, would you still be considering changing the meaning of 'rest'?
15:31	rhickey	Chouser: I'm just going through core now, looking at what are now 'nexts', virtually all are nil puns, mostly like (if items ... (recur ... (next items))
15:32	rhickey	The change of rest->next is easiest - search/replace, then it's the same job as more was, not using next in lazy fns
15:32	Chouser	ah, good point.
15:32	rhickey	Chouser: but like I said before, leaving rest alone is the easiest thing, but is it the best thing?
15:33	rhickey	the vast majority of uses of next could be written (if (seq items) ... (recur ... (rest items)), and would thus match lazy code
15:34	rhickey	the problem is they wouldn't be as fast as before, need the if/when-let for that
15:34	Chouser	I'm not so much in favor of leaving 'rest' alone as I am in not introducing a new subtly different meaning for it.
15:34	rhickey	agreed
15:34	rhickey	and yet it is the presumed meaning of many
15:35	Chouser	every question posted here and on the group, every answer, every example is going to require a note clarifying which 'rest' this code is using.
15:36	rhickey	true, and not a small problem
15:37	rhickey	so will the need to advise, moving forward, not to use rest
15:37	Chouser	less critical now, as most people who are using the lazy branch know they need to be careful, but after merge there will be old and new versions of clojure and new users may not be even aware which version they've got.
15:37	rhickey	OTOH, the only real difference is whether the pun works
15:38	rhickey	(if items ... (recur ... (rest items)) changes in lazier to (if (seq items) ... (recur ... (rest items))
15:38	rhickey	rest isn't broken, pun is
15:39	rhickey	but yes, a breaking change to interface
15:40	Lau_of_DK	It'll get annoying real quick to prefix everything with (seq) though
15:40	rhickey	Chouser: so I take it you're in the "please don't!!" category?
15:40	Chouser	I still don't think nil punning will be much missed after some changeover pain.
15:41	Chouser	my one converted file, 170 lines, 2 places needed seq calls added.
15:42	rhickey	Chouser: but rest still nil puns, and there were lots more of those in core, so it seems that one's harder to give up
15:43	Chouser	rhickey: yeah, I guess I'd slightly prefer rest/more over next/rest.
15:43	Chouser	but I'd be fine with next/rest-coll or next/lazy-seq-rest
15:44	rhickey	next/rest* ?
15:44	Chouser	because then we'd get questions like "where did rest go" rather than "why is my program in an infinite loop"?
15:44	rhickey	right
15:45	Chouser	sure, next/rest* would be ok
15:45	rhickey	solves the 'which rest?' problem
15:45	Chouser	right
15:46	rhickey	next/more ?
15:46	rhickey	if we're retiring rest
15:47	rhickey	any of the synonyms become fair game
15:47	Chouser	and you like next for (seq (whatever x))
15:49	rhickey	Chouser: yes, wishes now I had chosen it in first place - I see in my note I thought the issue would be Java people presuming it returned the second item and had side effects of moving cursor, which they will :(
15:49	rhickey	notes
15:50	Chouser	they'll get over it
15:51	rhickey	I agree, I'm most concerned with being internally consistent, and now, with legacy
15:51	rhickey	next/dregs
15:51	Chouser	ha!
15:51	Lau_of_DK	with legacy ?
15:52	Chouser	I've been surprised at how easily confused I've been between rest and more, so I'm trying to guess how hard next/more or next/rest* would be.
15:52	Chouser	or dregs, I suppose.
15:53	fanda	consistency is the most important
15:53	fanda	think about 2 years later... if something is broken, it will be even harder to fix
15:53	rhickey	Before I mapped to cons' first/rest, I had move/step etc as candidates for 'rest'
15:54	rhickey	just working on persistent iterator, not the lazy issue then
15:54	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: I doesnt matter if 1.0 is completely backwards incompatible, as long as its optimal right?
15:55	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: I'm not sure, still smarting from the bashing that happened around AOT changeover...
15:55	rhickey	thus hiding in branches
15:56	Lau_of_DK	Backwards compatability can/will get in the way of innovation, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but my feeling is that going into ver. 1.0 all bets are off, 1.1, 2.0 and so on should probably be launched with BC... But thats just my oppinion
15:56	Chouser	does such bashing come mostly from the CL folks who haven't seen their language change in a decade? Us scripty ruby/python kids don't mind so much, I'd guess.
15:57	rhickey	Chouser: there was a lot of influx to Clojure at the same time, people trying examples that didn't work, pulling a release that preceded the change, and getting the impression things were less stable than I think they have been generally
15:58	Chouser	hm, ok.
15:58	fanda	rhickey: just make as many people aware of the issue by posting on the mailing list or even on the website clojure.org
15:58	fanda	(when that happens)
15:59	fanda	i think it's understandable
16:11	rhickey	Here's another way to think about it - if (rest x) means a collection of the items other than the first (and this is the primary abstraction in fully lazy), what's a good nickname for the seq of that collection?
16:12	Lau_of_DK	rest? :)
16:13	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: did you miss the presumption? "if (rest x) means a collection of the items other than the first "
16:14	Lau_of_DK	No I didnt, and Im really not trying to be difficult, but it just seems like the right word for it, you have the first item, and then you have the rest - And I think that the rest call should default to a seq no matter what
16:14	rhickey	I'm thinking some seq variant, seq-> or something
16:15	Lau_of_DK	hmm.. seq-> is actually quite cool
16:15	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: then you can't have fully lazy
16:15	Chousuke	what's the -> supposed to signify? :/
16:15	Lau_of_DK	I have a fully lazy if the rest of my seq is always wrapped in a seq?
16:16	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: Advancing through the seq
16:16	Lau_of_DK	(I assumed)
16:16	Chousuke	rhickey: so in this fully lazy world, would (rest [1 2 3]) return a vector?
16:17	rhickey	Chousuke: no, always a sequence
16:17	Chousuke	I see. so no way to have it keep the vector guarantees. :/
16:18	rhickey	sequence encompassing seqs and lazy sequential collections
16:19	rhickey	Chousuke: use subvec
16:22	Chouser	or persistent queue, depending on what you're doing
16:25	cp2	is there a sort of "contains" function for sequences? (or something like member in common lisp)
16:26	Chouser	cp2: are you aware of sets? they usually work better than seqs when you're going to be testing for the existance of a particular value.
16:26	cp2	ah, i didnt think of that
16:26	cp2	yes, that would work better in this case
16:27	Chouser	excellent. and of course then you can just use the set itself as a function. so pretty. :-)
16:27	cp2	yeah, i do llike that :(
16:27	cp2	:) **
16:33	Lau_of_DK	Isnt there some serious documentation available on Compojure?
16:33	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: just what you're about to write.
16:34	Lau_of_DK	Thats not a whole lot
16:44	Lau_of_DK	Compojure doesnt escape html by default I suppose? :)
16:50	Lau_of_DK	java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.Util.equal(Ljava/lang/Object;Ljava/lang/Object;)Z (iwish.clj:15)
16:50	Lau_of_DK	[Thrown class clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException]
16:50	Lau_of_DK
16:50	Lau_of_DK	Can somebody enlighten me on what this means ?
16:55	Chouser	that doesn't look healthy.
16:56	Chouser	but it's hard to guess without more stack or the code, or both.
17:01	gnuvince_	What's the general preference for GUIs, Swing or SWT?
17:01	Lau_of_DK	gnuvince_: Qt
17:01	gnuvince_	bleh
17:01	Lau_of_DK	bleh?
17:02	gnuvince_	I dislike Qt
17:02	Lau_of_DK	argh, I sense religious issues... nevermind, chooser whatever inferior standard your idol commands you to
17:05	gnuvince_	I'd rather use something that's actually used in the Java world
17:07	Lau_of_DK	You mean like QtJambi ?
17:08	gnuvince_	No, like the 120,000 tools you can download from Sourceforge
17:09	Lau_of_DK	Have fun with those :)
17:10	gnuvince_	It's not just a question of fun, it's a question of learning something that the majority of Java people actually use.
17:10	Lau_of_DK	Sure, youre free to do as you want
17:18	lisppaste8	shoover pasted "with-properties macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75482
17:18	shoover	is there a better way to create the current# map in that paste?
17:19	shoover	well, I made a sequence of vector tuples there, but it's logically a map
17:19	shoover	I want a new map that has the same keys as the original but the values are the result of a function on the keys
17:20	durka42	zipmap might help
17:23	durka42	,(let [orig {1 "one" 2 "two" 3 "three"}] [orig (zipmap (keys orig) (map #(* -1 %) (vals orig)))])
17:23	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
17:23	durka42	,(let [orig {1 "one" 2 "two" 3 "three"}] [orig (zipmap (keys orig) (map #(* -1 %) (keys orig)))])
17:23	clojurebot	[{1 "one", 2 "two", 3 "three"} {3 -3, 2 -2, 1 -1}]
17:26	hiredman	,(apply hash-map (mapcat (fn [[a b]] [a (+ b 1)]) {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}))
17:26	clojurebot	{:b 3, :c 4, :a 2}
17:26	hiredman	,(doc updatein)
17:26	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: updatein in this context
17:26	hiredman	,(doc update-in)
17:26	clojurebot	"([m [k & ks] f & args]); 'Updates' a value in a nested associative structure, where ks is a sequence of keys and f is a function that will take the old value and any supplied args and return the new value, and returns a new nested structure. If any levels do not exist, hash-maps will be created."
17:27	hiredman	,(doc update)
17:27	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: update in this context
17:27	hiredman	hmmm
17:29	shoover	hiredman: warmer
17:29	hiredman	,(loop [h {:a 1 :b 2} k (keys h)] (if h (recur (update-in h [(first k)] inc) (rest k)) h))
17:29	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
17:29	hiredman	bah
17:30	hiredman	,(loop [h {:a 1 :b 2} k (keys h)] (if k (recur (update-in h [(first k)] inc) (rest k)) h))
17:30	clojurebot	{:a 2, :b 3}
17:32	hiredman	ugh
17:32	hiredman	of course
17:32	hiredman	you could just use recude
17:32	hiredman	reduce
17:33	xoox	How do I use xml-zip to find a node "foo" that satisfies some properties and is also a child of "bar" that satisfies some other properties? I keep running out of heap when doing (xml-> (xml1->
17:33	hiredman	,(reduce #(assoc % (first %2) (inc (second %2))) {} {:a 1 :b 2})
17:33	clojurebot	{:b 3, :a 2}
17:33	gnuvince_	I have a license question: if I modified and distribute a GPL3 library with my program, that means I need to be GPL3 too, right?
17:35	shoover	hiredman: durka42: thanks for the help. update-in was close, but I think the simple map will suffice
17:35	leafw	gnuvince_: yes
17:36	gnuvince_	leafw: thanks
17:37	gnuvince_	Man, that license is practically a novel
17:38	leafw	it tries to patch all potential loopholes.
17:44	gnuvince_	This is sort of annoying...
17:45	gnuvince_	Anyway
17:48	kilp	where is condp
17:50	hiredman	~def condp
17:51	hiredman	huh
17:51	hiredman	weird
17:51	hiredman	off by a few lines
17:52	hiredman	,(:line (meta #'condp))
17:52	clojurebot	3793
17:53	hiredman	~def update-in
17:54	kilp	condp is in a newer release?
17:54	kilp	, (doc condp)
17:54	clojurebot	"([pred expr & clauses]); Takes a binary predicate, an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-expr result-expr test-expr :>> result-fn Note :>> is an ordinary keyword. For each clause, (pred test-expr expr) is evaluated. If it returns logical true, the clause is a match. If a binary clause matches, the result-expr is returned, if a ternary clause matches, its result-fn, which must
17:54	kilp	i have december release
17:55	hiredman	svn rev 1180
17:55	hiredman	clojurebot: well?
17:55	clojurebot	Titim gan �ir� ort.
17:55	hiredman	gah
17:57	hiredman	condp was added to core 2008-12-21 1
17:58	hiredman	hiredman.clojurebot.svn=> @svn-rev-cache
17:58	hiredman	java.lang.StackOverflowError
17:58	hiredman	:(
17:59	hiredman	svn rev 1180
17:59	clojurebot	svn rev 1180; added condp, with input from Stuart Sierra and Meikel Brandmeyer
18:03	gnuvince_	Nice; my old Python library takes 9:40 minutes to analyze 1000 Starcraft replay files. The Clojure implementation takes 3:50 minutes
18:06	ayrnieu	what other contrasts do you draw?
18:14	gnuvince_	ayrnieu: between Python and Clojure?
18:15	ayrnieu	between your Python and Clojure programs.
18:15	gnuvince_	I intend to blog about, but here are a few:
18:16	gnuvince_	1. It was easier in Clojure to define the different actions of Starcraft in a declarative style. Python required meta classes and some thread unsafe things
18:17	gnuvince_	2. The tools that Clojure has access to because of Java are nice. The profilers -Xprof and -Xrunhprof were particularily useful in tracking down performance issues
18:17	gnuvince_	3. The community was extremely helpful whenever I had a problem.
18:18	ayrnieu	Thanks; I'll look for the blog-post.
18:34	lisppaste8	kilp pasted "windowlistener not working" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75485
18:34	pilk	the first example works but in my bigger program(mp3 player it doesnt)
18:34	pilk	user=> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: addWindowListener for class javax.swing.JFrame (mp3player.clj:0)
18:35	lisppaste8	kilp annotated #75485 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75485#1
18:36	hiredman	pilk: no matching method found means you type signature does not match
18:36	hiredman	your
18:37	pilk	wait doto
18:38	kilp	hmm system exit kills what, the whole jvm?
18:39	hiredman	yes
18:39	kilp	becuse i called system exit and then i didnt have to kill the player-thread
18:40	kilp	does System.exit(0); kill the whole JVM? all threads etc? do I ever need to expliicitly stop/close/kill a thread if calling System.exit? or shoulnt i call System.exit always?
18:40	hiredman	the jvm runs as a single process
20:53	blbrown	funny that I want to merge scala and clojure somehow. Scala library called from clojure
21:04	blbrown	anyone working with javafx, wonder if it is possible to integrate with clojure
21:11	kilp	http://podularraludop.appspot.com/ <- what do you guys think of the idea? add some up/down-voting and then signup so personal taste can be tracked.
21:12	kilp	i will redesign it once i figured out the exact functionality and get a .com address. (it is a podcast aggregator/recommender site)
21:13	durka42	hmm, you could call it "poddit"
21:13	kilp	why?
21:15	durka42	because it seems loosely like a reddit for podcasts
21:15	kilp	thinking which is bette,r updown or 1-5 voting
21:18	te	reddit sucks
21:20	durka42	does it now
21:20	te	just being a jerk
21:20	kilp	digg was before reddit right?
21:20	kilp	and the idea is hardly original anyway
21:20	kilp	but all podcastsaggregators suck
21:20	te	nod
21:21	te	aggregation is equal to degradation
21:21	te	or something like that
21:21	kilp	i have to spend so much time funding the good oens it isnt worth it
21:21	kilp	maybe ill use yahoos searchapi and find podcasts and post them automatically to the site
21:21	kilp	something liek that
21:21	kilp	then have reviews
21:22	kilp	and have an app on android that you can buy
21:22	kilp	you think it could work?
21:25	te	are there apps for android?
21:25	te	like on iphone?
21:25	durka42	yes
21:25	te	i had no idea
21:26	durka42	"android market"
21:26	kilp	yes and now us and uk developers csn charge for them
21:26	kilp	and it will open for rest of the world too
21:39	gnuvince_	How accurate are the results of java -Xprof? It tells me that nearly 25% of my program is spent in calls to rest
21:57	eyeris	Could someone type out how they read this in english? "(defmacro cond-let [bindings & clauses] ..."
21:57	eyeris	I am specifically confused by the & symbol
21:58	eyeris	As far as I can tell it means "and bind the rest of the arguments to the clauses symbol"
21:58	eyeris	However I don't know how I am supposed to use them
21:58	gnuvince_	,(let [[x & xs] [1,2,3,4,5]] xs)
21:58	clojurebot	(2 3 4 5)
21:59	eyeris	So it is like deconstruting binding for lists?
21:59	gnuvince_	The rest of the arguments are put into a seq and bound to the clauses parameter
21:59	gnuvince_	You can do whatever you want with them
21:59	eyeris	Okay, so what if I just want all of my paramters in a seq?
21:59	gnuvince_	[& xs]
22:00	eyeris	Oh wow, duh
22:00	gnuvince_	,(let [[& xs] [1 2 3]] xs)
22:00	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
22:00	eyeris	I really should have tried that
22:00	eyeris	:)
22:00	eyeris	Thank you
22:02	gnuvince_	np
22:49	gnuvince_	quiet tonight
22:49	gnuvince_	Lots of guys on a tight leash I guess
22:51	blbrown	hmm, does xml/parse support parsing just a string, not a file
22:59	blbrown	OK, inputstream
23:00	gnuvince_	~seen technomancy
23:00	clojurebot	technomancy was last seen quiting IRC, 1596 minutes ago
23:01	ayrnieu	,(/ 1596 60.0)
23:01	clojurebot	26.6
23:01	gnuvince_	Kind of wanted his help with clojure-mode.
23:15	blbrown	~seen blbrown
23:15	clojurebot	blbrown was last seen in #clojure, 0 minutes ago saying: ~seen blbrown
23:15	Chouser	nice
23:15	blbrown	~seen ,blbrown
23:15	clojurebot	no, I have not seen ,blbrown
23:15	blbrown	~seen ~seen blbrown
23:15	clojurebot	no, I have not seen ~seen blbrown
23:16	blbrown	Chouser, I have yet to trick this bot. then again, I haven't tricked any IRC bots. They are just that smart
23:20	gnuvince_	~seen ""
23:20	clojurebot	no, I have not seen ""
23:21	Chouser	~clojurebot
23:21	clojurebot	clojurebot is like life: you make trade-offs
23:21	Chouser	~seen clojurebot
23:21	clojurebot	Of course I have seen myself.
23:24	gnuvince_	Does C-c C-c work for anyone else with Slime?
23:25	WizardofWestmarc	I just made sure, mine works fine. But I think my swank-clojure is a week or so old
23:26	gnuvince_	WizardofWestmarc: would you mind showing me your config?
23:26	gnuvince_	Maybe you have something I don't
23:27	blbrown	I wonder if it is better to use slime/clojure over jline at the console
23:28	gnuvince_	blbrown: depends on what you prefer
23:28	gnuvince_	If you're not into Emacs, jline, ledit, rlwrap are most likely better choices
23:28	blbrown	no, I am very into emacs
23:29	gnuvince_	I don't have jline
23:29	gnuvince_	I don't see the point, all the command line editing functions are already there.
23:29	blbrown	I normally merge jline with the clojure repl. It is basically just rlwrap for java
23:29	blbrown	really
23:30	blbrown	interesting, hmm, I could have sworn this didn't work with cygwin
23:32	WizardofWestmarc	lemme dig it up, note mine's mostly clojurebox
23:33	gnuvince_	thanks
23:33	gnuvince_	It's a .exe, so I can't download it myself.
23:33	WizardofWestmarc	nod
23:35	hiredman	jline has issues with unicode
23:35	WizardofWestmarc	hm, the one in my home dir is my old clisp one, odd
23:36	blbrown	hiredman, I could have sworn there was a reason I used jline, hmm
23:37	ayrnieu	blbrown - the wiki talks about jline before it talks about rlwrap :-) But use rlwrap. It's much nicer, and I had problems with wrapping with jline.
23:37	hiredman	I switched to rlwrap cuase I like my unicode, and I kept forgeting about jline messing up unicode and going "OH MY GOSH, CLOJURE BUG!!!"
23:37	blbrown	is rlwrap a java application. I would need something cross platform
23:38	gnuvince_	blbrown: it's C
23:38	gnuvince_	But again, why do you need that if you got Emacs?
23:38	hiredman	cmd.exe seems to just give you some of the line editing stuff for free without jline or rlwrap
23:39	blbrown	hiredman, on XP?
23:39	hiredman	yeah
23:39	blbrown	is there a function to detect an objects type, I guess a better 'instanceof'
23:39	hiredman	,(class '())
23:39	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
23:40	blbrown	should I know the api by heart before asking these questions, thanks that you guys are nice
23:40	gnuvince_	According to many messages I've found, slime-interrupt doesn't work with Clojure apparently
23:40	lisppaste8	WizardofWestmarch pasted "from clojurebox .emacs file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75502
23:45	gnuvince_	Nope, doesn't work :-/
23:45	gnuvince_	Thanks anyway
23:46	WizardofWestmarc	weird
23:46	WizardofWestmarc	do you get an error or the like?
23:48	WizardofWestmarc	and does C-c C-k work?
23:48	gnuvince_	No errors
23:48	gnuvince_	It just doesn't do anything
23:48	WizardofWestmarc	wait
23:48	WizardofWestmarc	is the buffer named blah.clj?
23:48	WizardofWestmarc	it only works if it's a file with a clojure extension
23:48	gnuvince_	Usually, I try to stop something I've ran directly in the slime repl
23:49	WizardofWestmarc	hm
23:49	WizardofWestmarc	yeah if the file you are editing and attempting to partial compile has the right extension, I'm at a los
23:49	WizardofWestmarc	*loss
23:50	gnuvince_	Yeah, nothing there.
23:50	gnuvince_	And I don't have C-c C-k bound.
23:50	WizardofWestmarc	nod
23:50	WizardofWestmarc	I really like that one for when I'm doing continual work that I'm not full compiling into .class files
23:55	gnuvince_	What is it bound to?
23:56	WizardofWestmarc	C-c C-k? I'd need to look up the command, but it's compile-file
23:56	gnuvince_	ah
23:56	gnuvince_	I usually just C-c C-c every defn I want
23:57	WizardofWestmarc	nod
23:57	gnuvince_	Hmmm
23:57	WizardofWestmarc	the second is just when I know I want eeeeverything and it's a lot of forms
23:57	gnuvince_	C-c C-k would be much faster ;)
23:57	gnuvince_	thanks for the tip ;)
23:59	gnuvince_	Next step: finding how to get my app to be faster