#clojure – 2009-01-15

2009-01-15

03:21	Lau_of_DK	Good morning gents
03:31	joma	is there a clojure command for writing to file or i have to go to Java?
03:33	yangsx	joma: clojure.contrib.duck-streams/spit
03:38	joma	god
03:38	joma	spit slurp etc, please stop
03:53	joma	if i need to do : (if (action) then action else something_else
03:53	joma	how can I write that without a let
03:54	joma	and without doing the action 2 times?
03:54	joma	like in python
03:54	joma	no not like in python
03:57	rottcodd	(or (action) (something-else))
04:01	sleven	I mean break a string and keep intendation
04:04	bergermeister	(first (filter apply [action something-else])
04:20	AWizzArd	clojurebot: max people
04:20	clojurebot	max people is 127
04:21	hiredman	/list #clojure
04:21	hiredman	er
04:58	blackdog	i just upgraded to HEAD and my clj script doesn't want to find my -cp classpath anymore anyone else with this?
05:09	Lau_of_DK	your clj script ?
05:10	blackdog	my bash starting script
05:10	blackdog	it hasn't changed, points to the same places
05:10	blackdog	i'll try going back in svn a bit see if it starts working again
05:13	hiredman	do you use clojure.main?
05:13	blackdog	yes
05:13	blackdog	started last week or so, but it's been fin
05:13	blackdog	e
05:14	karmazilla	my script works fine: http://gist.github.com/47350
05:14	hiredman	have you checked the --help output recently? the options may have changed
05:14	blackdog	checking
05:48	mikem`	hi, is there a way to obtain the current version (ie: the SVN build) of clojure at the REPL?
05:49	dhaya	mikem`: No way currently.
05:50	mikem`	dhaya: thanks. not a problem :) just wanted to double-check it's running the latest SVN
06:45	mikem`	i'm having trouble with chapter 9 of Programming Clojure, in the function create-snippets on page 209, create-table is not found. do I somehow need to require/use hsqldb first?
06:49	dhaya	mikem`: create-table is in clojure.contrib.sql
06:52	Lau_of_DK	mikem`: Do your self a favor and get familiar with: http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/clojureql/tree/master
06:52	mikem`	dhaya: ok, that was easy. thanks :)
06:53	mikem`	Lau_of_DK: looks interesting. i'll bookmark that and take a look again when i'm doing some real work
06:53	mikem`	thanks
06:54	Lau_of_DK	np
07:05	sleven	is Programming Clojure available for free as pdf or soemthing?
07:06	Fib	sleven: There's a beta PDF but it's not free
07:08	Fib	http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure
07:12	mikem`	Lau_of_DK: just got to a mention of clojureql in the book :)
07:44	blackdog	interesting when i have clojure.jar in my -Djava.ext.dirs path, HEAD svn does not find my other classes on the -cp classpath, if I add clojure.jar to -cp too everything works fine
07:45	blackdog	it used to work with all the jars including clojure.jar in -Djava.ext.dirs
07:46	AWizzArd	And for me it's even more strange. In Slime I have to put everything that I already have on my classpath also into swank-clojure-extra-classpaths, because my classpath itself is completely ignored.
07:47	rhickey	blackdog: "does not find" mean import doesn't work?
07:47	blackdog	mmm, i mention this as it was a breaking change for me
07:47	blackdog	yes
07:47	rhickey	blackdog: what OS/JVM?
07:47	blackdog	import fails when clojure.jar is in -Djava.ext
07:48	blackdog	(build 1.6.0_11-b03)
07:48	blackdog	ubuntu
07:48	blackdog	i don't know what svn version i had that was working
07:49	blackdog	i probably updated about 2 weeks ago
07:49	blackdog	today it failed
07:51	blackdog	that's import on other .clj files fail, clojure itself loads fine
10:01	durka	what does clojure.xml/startparse-sax do?
10:02	durka	it has no documentation and looks like it could call any of four methods on SAXParser
10:03	durka	is the idea to proxy DefaultHandler and pass that?
10:05	drewolson	hey all, should the "Getting Started" page on clojure.org be updated to show launching the repl with clojure.main?
10:18	Chouser	durka: the idea is to you to provide some other sax-compatible parser
10:18	Chouser	durka: I use it for tagsoup
10:22	Chouser	as I understand it, it's currently impossible to create a class with genclass that calls its own (or its super-classes') methods when it is constructed.
10:22	durka	because genclass doesn't look for an implementation until runtime?
10:22	Chouser	no, because the init function is called without access the 'this'
10:23	durka	that seems unhelpful
10:26	joma	if i want to do something sideeffectful X times, what do I use?
10:26	rhickey	(doc repeatedly)
10:26	clojurebot	Takes a function of no args, presumably with side effects, and returns an infinite lazy sequence of calls to it; arglists ([f])
10:27	rhickey	(doc dotimes)
10:27	clojurebot	bindings => name n Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with name bound to integers from 0 through n-1.; arglists ([bindings & body])
10:28	Chouser	I've claimed before that this is because 'init' is run before any 'this' object has been created. But upon further reflection, I don't think that's possible.
10:29	Chouser	So now I'd guess that providing 'this' would be a mis-feature in some way, or that it was simple overlooked.
10:29	Chouser	simply
10:30	walters	Chouser: in the JVM the constructor is restricted to only calling code without reference to "this" before invoking the superclass constructor
10:30	walters	Chouser: typically though what i do in Java at least is define a private static method which does all the computation, and just call that
10:31	Chouser	hm, that's interesting.
10:31	walters	Chouser: maybe genclass could be split into pre-init and post-init?
10:32	Chouser	that's what I was thinking originally. :init could be left as-is, but there could be a new :post-init function
10:32	rhickey	Chouser: init is called before ctor, and provides args for it
10:32	Chouser	called before the super's ctor, but from inside the gen'ed class's ctor, right?
10:33	Chouser	the problem is if there is stateful initialization required by the superclass for which it has only methods, not ctor args.
10:33	Chouser	poorly designed superclass if you ask me, but they exist.
10:34	dhaya	,(if (Boolean. "false") "true" "false")
10:34	clojurebot	"true"
10:34	dhaya	That looks like a bug.
10:34	Chouser	Currently the only solution is to have a fn that you must always use to 'new' your gen'ed class, so that it can do some init after 'new'. Seems dangerous.
10:36	rhickey	Chouser: post-init is possible, but there's no safe-to-use this to pass to init, since the object is allocated but not yet constructed (init being one step in that construction)
10:37	Chouser	ok. I was about to post a :post-init feature request to the issues page.
10:37	rhickey	go for it
10:37	durka	,(Boolean. "false")
10:37	clojurebot	false
10:37	durka	,(Boolean. "true")
10:37	clojurebot	true
10:41	rhickey	dhaya: any object that is not nil or Boolean.FALSE is true. Sometimes there will be a conversion for you, but if you are dealing with boxed Booleans not coming from Clojure or known to come from Boolean.valueOf, then you'll need to call .booleanValue on them
10:52	dhaya	rhickey: Ok. I take it there is some reason that clojure itself cannot do that for me?
10:58	dhaya	It also seems to me to be inconsistent with (= (Boolean. "false") false) returning true.
10:58	rhickey	dhaya: yes, the rest of the planet doesn't want if (and everything built on if) slowed down for that special case
10:59	rhickey	dhaya: is this a real problem or a theoretical one?
10:59	dhaya	rhickey: I just stumbled on it while taking input from stdin and passing it directly to a if after boxing.
11:00	rhickey	how did you get a Boolean ?
11:00	Chouser	eval?
11:00	rhickey	you are boing yourself?
11:00	dhaya	yes.
11:01	dhaya	I was boxing myself.
11:01	rhickey	public Boolean(boolean value)
11:01	rhickey	Allocates a Boolean object representing the value argument.
11:01	rhickey	Note: It is rarely appropriate to use this constructor. Unless a new instance is required, the static factory valueOf(boolean) is generally a better choice. It is likely to yield significantly better space and time performance.
11:01	rhickey	public static Boolean valueOf(boolean b)
11:01	rhickey	Returns a Boolean instance representing the specified boolean value. If the specified boolean value is true, this method returns Boolean.TRUE; if it is false, this method returns Boolean.FALSE. If a new Boolean instance is not required, this method should generally be used in preference to the constructor Boolean(boolean), as this method is likely to yield significantly better space and time performance.
11:01	rhickey	from the JavaDocs, please use valueOf
11:02	rhickey	this will return Boolean.FALSE, which will test consitional false in if
11:02	rhickey	conditional
11:02	dhaya	Ah. I see the distinction now. Thanks.
11:02	rhickey	np
11:03	asbjxrn	How can I from an agent action run two calculations in parallell?
11:03	rhickey	asbjxrn: send to 2 other agents
11:04	asbjxrn	but I want to wait for them to finish before eg. adding them again, and I can't run await?
11:05	Chouser	got an assert, did you? :-)
11:06	Chouser	asbjxrn: 'send' called in an agent action is held until the action completes and the agent has gotten its new value.
11:09	asbjxrn	Right. So if what I want to do is ((task 1) (in parallel (task 2) (task 3)) (task 4)) How would I do that? Not sure I understand.
11:11	rhickey	asbjxrn: you could write an in-parallel fn using executors and futures, a la: http://clojure.org/concurrent_programming
11:12	Chouser	I guess you'd have to use something other than agents or await for one of thse steps.
11:13	Chouser	your main task could be a regular Thread instead of an agent, or task 4 could wait on some blocking object rather than using 'await'
11:13	asbjxrn	But they're so nice. :)
11:16	Chouser	would pmap be appropriate for tasks 2 and 3?
11:16	asbjxrn	That test-stm function from the concurrent_programming page looks promising. Is there a lot of overhead in setting up/tearing down such a pool?
11:20	Chouser	is clojurebot pointing at the wrong repo? or is that feature just not working at the moment?
11:20	Chouser	clojurebot: latest?
11:20	clojurebot	latest is 1207
11:21	rhickey	http://code.google.com/p/clojure/source/list
11:22	Chouser	clojurebot: latest is 1215
11:22	clojurebot	Alles klar
11:22	Chouser	heh. hm.
11:22	karmazilla	clojurebot: latest?
11:22	clojurebot	latest is 1215
11:36	cgrand	Hello! format, name and namespace are not hinted {:tag String}. Do I open an issue for this?
11:37	rhickey	cgrand: sure
11:38	cgrand	ok
11:53	lisppaste8	rhickey pasted "call-par" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73650
11:54	asbjxrn	:)
11:57	rhickey	better name needed
11:57	danlarkin	papply? you'd have to change it a little though
11:59	rhickey	danlarkin: requiring the last arg be a seq would also require it be realized (i.e. not parallel)
12:00	cgrand	hmm... should force be made to work on Futures?
12:00	Chousuke	so it evaluates the arguments in parallel and applies op to them... hmm.
12:00	rhickey	cgrand: I would worry about the possibly hidden blocking
12:01	Chouser	pinvoke
12:02	rhickey	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_Invocation_Services
12:03	Chouser	Mmm... DLLs
12:03	Chouser	so yummy
12:04	rhickey	I don't want MS to sue me
12:05	Chouser	seque only uses one worker thread.
12:05	rhickey	something indicating that the args are parallel would be good
12:05	Chousuke	parallel-eval-args is too long :(
12:06	Chouser	nm, I was thinking there was more similarity between call-par and seque than there is.
12:07	Chouser	it could return a vector, in which case 'peval' is pretty close.
12:07	danlarkin	but is that too close to peeval?
12:30	sp00oon	how about simply: parallelize
12:32	sp00oon	I'm new to lisp & concurrent mind spaces so not sure if that has other connotations...
12:35	Chousuke	sp00oon: that sounds like a higher order function that takes a function and returns a parallelised version of it.
12:35	shoover``	is it a side-effects thing? doparallel
12:37	lisppaste8	rhickey annotated #73650 with "pvals, pargs, using pool" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73650#1
12:37	rhickey	shoover``: no, not side effects, collecting results
12:39	danlarkin	it's sortof reduce-like behavior
12:42	cgrand	Slighty different: par-args (or par-list or par-seq or...) and (apply f (par-args (expr 1) (expr 2))?
12:52	shoover``	cgrand's approach seems more general. it's an apply, and the args are eval'ed in parallel. (apply f (peval a b c))
13:04	danlarkin	nooo not peeval
13:06	rhickey	cgrand: are you talking about: http://paste.lisp.org/display/73650#1 ?
13:08	rhickey	pvals fn, could do plist as macro, leaving applying out of it
13:11	jkantz	in clojure, what's the idiomatic equiv of common lisp case?
13:12	Chouser	I don't know CL, but you might look at cond or condp
13:21	jkantz	ok thanks, condp will work
13:32	cgrand1	rhickey: I'm sorry I didn't see your annotation. pvals (fn) and plist (macro) are fine. My point was to leave apply out of teh macro.
14:28	hiredman	you guys see the "Problem using fn macro" thread?
14:28	hiredman	XD
14:31	hiredman	I think the reply "if this gets fixed" really makes the thread
14:35	bitbckt	hiredman: "you're doing it wrong"
14:35	hiredman	bitbckt: yeah
14:38	gnuvince	This Mark Volkmann is... weird.
14:42	gnuvince	Do you guys refer to x as in (let [x 0] x) as a variable or as a binding?
14:43	bitbckt	gnuvince: binding
14:44	bitbckt	as in, "x is locally bound to..."
14:45	gnuvince	Thanks
14:46	gnuvince	When I speak of Clojure (or Haskell for that matter) to people used to languages like C or Java, they always ask "why is it called a variable if it can't change?"
14:46	gnuvince	I just realized that binding is probably a better term that would also be less confusing
14:46	bitbckt	I think it's easier when discussing such things with them to use "variable."
14:46	bitbckt	that's the term their used to
14:47	bitbckt	but binding is more accurate, I think
14:47	gnuvince	But like I said, they buck at the "you can't modify it?" part
14:47	bitbckt	yeah... that's a pain ;-)
14:47	rhickey	gnuvince: I've been saying a "local"
14:48	bitbckt	rhickey: that's a solid alternative
15:01	drewr	How do you get to a static member in an inner class?
15:01	walters	$
15:01	drewr	Foo$Bar/baz => No such namespace: Foo$Bar
16:00	danlarkin	drewr: you have to import Foo$Bar
16:00	danlarkin	sorry for being an hour late
16:01	drewr	danlarkin: Yeah. Strange that having the package doesn't work for me. E.g., clojure.lang.LispReader$RegexReader/stringrdr
16:04	Lau_of_DK	/query chouser
16:16	Lau_of_DK	Anybody know what the maximum filesize is, that I can upload view a HTML-form ?
16:18	danlarkin	depends on the server
16:18	danlarkin	I think
16:18	danlarkin	which probably means it doesn't depend on the server, since I seem to be wrong more than right
16:19	drewr	:-)
16:21	Lau_of_DK	Hmmm Dan :)
16:21	Lau_of_DK	So its a matter of setting some MAX_FILE_SIZE var somewhere, and then its up to the server after that?
16:39	grosours	hi
16:39	Lau_of_DK	yo
16:40	durka	Lau_of_DK: are you using apache?
16:40	Lau_of_DK	Yep
16:41	durka	as i remember there is max_file_size, but also max_upload_size and max_post_size
16:41	durka	since files are uploaded by POST requests
16:42	Lau_of_DK	There is - I just couldnt work out if the system gave an upper limit - which I think it does, just dont know what that is
16:46	stuhood	hey gang
16:46	Lau_of_DK	Hey Stu
16:47	stuhood	is it necessary to add type hints to the 'this' parameter for functions used in gen-class?
16:47	danlarkin	hints are never necessary :)
16:48	danlarkin	Although! going by the rule I've set out, they are indeed necessary
16:48	stuhood	haha
16:49	hiredman	Lau_of_DK: clojureql do postgres yet?
16:49	Lau_of_DK	hiredman: I suspect that it does, but I have not tested yet.
16:54	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: how's the create-table stuff handled, since there's :mysql and :sqlite specific handlers
16:54	Lau_of_DK	sqllite doesnt have type for columns, it has types for cells
16:55	Lau_of_DK	Mysql, postresql, mssql all have one type per column
16:55	danlarkin	ah mmhmm
17:00	stuhood	the trouble i'm running into with hints is that if you hint the 'this' parameter, the compiler cannot find the class definition, since it hasn't been gen-class'd yet... chicken and egg?
17:01	Chouser	that's not right. The class fully exists before you get to the method function definitions.
17:01	stuhood	i'm declaring the functions before executing gen-class... is that wrong?
17:01	hiredman	postgresql's alter table has a slightly different syntax than what clojureql is generating
17:01	Chouser	doesn't mean the classname is imported yet though -- have you tried using the full package and class name.
17:02	stuhood	yes, full package and class name
17:02	Chouser	stuhood: oh, yep. that's backwards. (ns my.package.fooclass (:gen-class ...)) (defn -mymethod ...)
17:02	stuhood	gotcha. because gen-class is just creating stubs, right?
17:02	stuhood	cool beans... thanks.
17:03	Chouser	yep, the gen'd class doesn't go looking for method implementations until as demanded at runtime.
19:00	rhickey	anyone on 1215 yet?
19:02	hiredman	I have a jar built, but I haven't done anything with it
19:03	hiredman	I think I used the 1215 jar file when I was trying to talk to postgresql with clojureql
19:17	durka	what hiredman said
19:41	durka_	is anyone using yourkit on a >1 cpu machine?
19:41	durka_	i'm trying to figure out why activity monitor reports a 2x higher cpu usage than yourkit does, for the same clojure program at the same time
19:44	burkelibbey	Probably activity monitor goes up to 200% for what I presume is a Core 2 Duo.
19:44	burkelibbey	</guess>
19:47	durka_	well, it only goes up to 102% or so, but i am wondering if that is more-or-less evenly split across the core 2 duo
19:47	durka_	and if that was the case i would wonder why yourkit only looks at one cpu
19:52	pjb3	rhickey: I'm interested in learning more about how Clojure works under the hood, any recommendations on things to read to learn about the JVM, JIT, Classloaders, etc.?
19:53	rhickey	pjb3: I don't know that there's a single place with all this stuff - Java Concurrency in Practice is a must read, though
19:55	pjb3	rhickey: Yeah, I have JCIP, only read the first few chapters, I suppose I should get through that
20:00	Cark	how do i replace an item in a list based on some predicate ?
20:00	Cark	there must be some way
20:00	durka	map?
20:01	Cark	mhh yes that's what i'm doing right now
20:01	Cark	let's say i have a list of users like this {:name "cark" :foo "bar"}
20:02	Cark	and i only need to change the user "cark in that list"
20:02	Cark	or update its value :foo from "bar" to "baz" really
20:03	Cark	lisppaste8 : url
20:03	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
20:03	Chouser	Cark: assoc ?
20:03	Chouser	(doc assoc)
20:03	clojurebot	assoc[iate]. When applied to a map, returns a new map of the same (hashed/sorted) type, that contains the mapping of key(s) to val(s). When applied to a vector, returns a new vector that contains val at index. Note - index must be <= (count vector).; arglists ([map key val] [map key val & kvs])
20:04	Cark	let me prepare an example =P
20:05	Chouser	sure
20:07	lisppaste8	cark pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73679
20:08	Cark	see the map form, i wonder if there is some library function to do that
20:09	Chouser	do you always look things up by :name ?
20:09	Cark	well in this case yes
20:10	Chouser	or to head in a different direction, are your hashes unique and their order in the list unimportant?
20:10	Cark	but this cold be a more general function
20:10	Cark	the order in the list is important
20:10	Chouser	yeah, I think it's not all that "general" anymore, but we may be able to tighten up that example a bit...
20:11	durka	perhaps an "assoc-if"?
20:11	Cark	ah that sounds promising =P
20:12	durka	i wasn't saying that exists, i was suggesting that someone write one :p
20:12	Chouser	but that really assumes an ordered seq of hashes -- not something I've seen very often.
20:12	durka	well, isn't that what defstruct is designed for
20:12	durka	which would imply that it is expected
20:13	Cark	what i'm using it for : i have a list of column in a csv file, and the cv-import stuff needs to assign column numbers with field names
20:13	Cark	csv-import
20:14	Chouser	durka: structs are just maps, and maps are supported. There's a library of functions to work with unordered sets of maps, but not ordered seqs of them.
20:14	durka	i see
20:14	Cark	anyways if you guy can't tell me about this function, that means it doesn't exist, and it's trivial to write one ...thanks !
20:15	Chouser	hm, and since the list itself changes, we can't use an array-map.
20:17	Chouser	(map second (vals (assoc-in (zipmap (map :name users) (indexed users)) ["rick" 1 :foo] "baz")))
20:17	lisppaste8	durka annotated #73679 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73679#1
20:18	durka	eek
20:18	Chouser	hm. durka's is better than mine.
20:18	durka	but pretty specific to this example
20:19	durka	yours looks like it adds a lot of complexity, but maybe because i don't know what a zipmap is
20:19	Chouser	yeah, just a failed approach.
20:19	Chouser	hm, not even correct. It needs a 'sort' in there somewhere. skip it.
20:20	Chouser	durka: your solution is better in every way
20:20	durka	i think the more general answer to this question is "sql"
20:20	Chouser	or would be if at least one of the argument names wasn't a builtin function.
20:21	durka	actually all of them are
20:21	durka	i think
20:21	Chouser	yeah, I know. don't do that.
20:21	Chouser	,[test map key val]
20:21	Chouser	,(prn [test map key val])
20:21	clojurebot	[#<core$test__4053 clojure.core$test__4053@1fd9b49> #<core$map__3371 clojure.core$map__3371@fee225> #<core$key__3235 clojure.core$key__3235@c57f88> #<core$val__3238 clojure.core$val__3238@de6570>]
20:22	durka	of course, core/assoc names it params map/key/val too
20:22	Chouser	shame on it, too, then. :-)
20:29	lisppaste8	cark annotated #73679 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73679#2
20:29	Cark	there you go !
20:30	lisppaste8	Chouser annotated #73679 with "map-if" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73679#3
20:30	Chouser	hey!
20:31	Chouser	I still screwed up the usage, though. sheesh.
20:32	Cark	ahyes, stay consistent put the coll param at the end
20:38	Chouser	well, if there's a simpler approach, I'm not seeing it.
20:38	Cark	yep that's good enough =P
20:38	Cark	thanks !
20:45	Chouser	(assoc-in (vec users) [((apply hash-map (mapcat reverse (indexed (map :name users)))) "rick") :foo] "baz")
20:47	Cark	i'm not sure i would understand the meaning of that after a couple of days
20:47	Cark	or minutes even
20:58	durka	so we take the names out, number them in order and reverse those so there is a list of name/number pairs. then flatten that out with the mapcat so there is a list of name, #, name, #, etc. we make a hash-map out of that, which is keyed by names and valued with numbers, and then look up "rick" to get the index of rick's record in the original list. with that index in hand, we create a vector (which is like a hashmap from indices to s
20:58	durka	well, now i understand it
20:59	lisppaste8	Chouser annotated #73679 with "indexed seq" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73679#4
20:59	durka	not sure my brain dump is coherent for anyone else
20:59	Chouser	:-)
20:59	Chouser	durka: you got it.
20:59	durka	does that end up turning the original list into a vector
21:00	durka	or does assoc-in return a list
21:02	Chouser	a vector
21:03	Chouser	so, not strictly the same as the rest.
21:03	Chouser	All these are making the original change-rick-to-baz look pretty good. :-)
21:03	durka	heh
21:08	Cark	now i'll feel responsible for any delay in textjure =(
21:18	Chouser	heh. no, I'm pretty sure I'm resposible for any dealys in textjure.
21:48	danlarkin	le sigh
21:49	danlarkin	Caused by: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate calliope/conf/urls__init.class or calliope/conf/urls.clj on classpath
21:49	danlarkin	but it _is_ on my classpath
22:00	danlarkin	Hm. very tricky, it was running with -Djava.ext.dirs
22:00	danlarkin	I guess changes how classpath look ups work? who knows
22:01	durka	that's strange...
22:01	durka	classpath magic is black magic indeed
22:02	KevinAlbrecht	I have a program which uses "require" to include another clojure file, but when I use (load-file) from the Repl, it won't load the required file... what's the solution?
22:04	danlarkin	KevinAlbrecht: what's the exception it throws?
22:04	danlarkin	likely the file isn't on your classpath
22:04	durka	sounds like the opposite problem
22:04	durka	if require works
22:04	KevinAlbrecht	It throws a not on classpath exception
22:05	danlarkin	oh, right.. wait so which one works, KevinAlbrecht, require or load-file?
22:05	KevinAlbrecht	Ah, I get it now... so you need to add the current directory to your classpath
22:06	KevinAlbrecht	require works when I'm running the program as a script, but when
22:06	KevinAlbrecht	I load the program on the Repl, the require fails
22:09	KevinAlbrecht	thanks, danlarkin
22:10	KevinAlbrecht	I really hate classpath nonsense
22:11	durka	it seems like a great idea -- you just import packages, and java translates the names into directories and magically finds the class files
22:11	durka	but... it doesn't seem to work in practice
22:12	durka	it's the portable equivalent of dll hell
22:12	banisterfiend	Yo dawg, I heard you like recursion so we put a Yo dog, I heard you like recursion so we put a Yo dog, I heard you like recursion so we put a Yo dog, I heard you like recursion so we put a Yo dog...
22:13	durka	StackOverflowError
22:14	durka	at: net.freenode.irc.clojure
22:14	durka	Caused by: banisterfiend
22:15	banisterfiend	hehe
22:15	durka	... ? more
22:16	durka	but apparently it is option-5
22:16	danlarkin	?
22:16	danlarkin	oooo
22:16	danlarkin	fun
22:16	banisterfiend	do you know of any programming langauges that use unicode in their keywords etc?
22:16	banisterfiend	i heard some functional languages are thinking about using an actual lambda symbol
22:16	danlarkin	fortress
22:16	danlarkin	Guy Steele's new language
22:17	hiredman	banisterfiend: there is a hack where you can use '?' for 'lambda' in ruby
22:18	banisterfiend	hiredman: really? how do i find out about it?
22:18	hiredman	http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/10/fun_with_unicode_1.html
22:18	hiredman	very simple
22:18	hiredman	(very silly)
22:19	durka	,(let [? 3.14] (* 2 ?))
22:19	clojurebot	6.28
22:20	hiredman	? shoudl be a lazy seq of the digits of ?
22:20	arohner	There's a scheme hack for emacs that replaces (lambda with (<lambda symbol>
22:21	arohner	it's display only, but still cool
22:21	banisterfiend	hiredman: is that just ruby 1.9 or 1.8 too?
22:21	hiredman	banisterfiend: 1.8
22:22	hiredman	dunno if it even works on 1.9
22:22	banisterfiend	cool
22:22	banisterfiend	well proc in 1.9 is actually a Proc.new so should probably change the alias to a lambda
22:24	hiredman	,(let [f (? [x] x)] :a)
22:24	clojurebot	:a
22:26	hiredman	oh
22:26	hiredman	duh
22:26	hiredman	the nyquil is kicking in
22:26	hiredman	,(let [f (? [x] x)] (f :a))
22:26	clojurebot	:a
22:33	hiredman	,(((S K) K) :a)
22:33	clojurebot	:a
22:35	durka	oh no not that language :(
22:40	drewr	danlarkin: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/f65dd874f779b15c
22:40	drewr	Not sure how much that's related to your classpath issue.
22:40	danlarkin	ahh ha
22:40	danlarkin	interestingk
22:42	durka	(defn sgn [x] (if (>= 0 x) 1 -1))
22:42	durka	(defn ? [n] (.doubleValue (apply + (take n (map #(/ 4 %) (iterate #(* (sgn %) (+ 2 (Math/abs %))) 1))))))
22:42	durka	(? 359)
22:42	durka	3.14437816350691
22:43	durka	above that Doubles don't cut it
22:44	lisppaste8	durka pasted "pi" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73683
22:44	durka	Ratios seem to be rather higher precision ^
22:45	durka	hiredman: you may consider your ? lazy seq request beaten to death
22:45	Cark	hey ... (float your-very-long-number) returns NaN
22:46	hiredman	that's not a lazy-seq of digits
22:46	durka	Cark: yeah, float can't hold that many digits
22:46	durka	above (? 359) it does that
22:47	Cark	that's the problem with not having the full numeric tower
22:47	durka	hiredman: true. but it is a sum of a lazy seq of the terms of 4*arctan(1) :)
22:49	Cark	lispworks says your approximation is 3.1405926
22:49	Cark	better but not quite it yet
22:57	durka	is it a bug that take seems to hang on exceptions?
23:06	yangsx	what is the perl equivalent for s/ab([0-9]+)cd/[\1]/ ? I mean how to refer to the captured group in re-gsub, for instance
23:06	yangsx	equivalent for the Perl*
23:07	danlarkin	you can use re-seq
23:07	danlarkin	or re-groups
23:08	yangsx	can re-seq or re-groups be used in re-gsub's replacement?
23:10	hiredman	yangsx: java has its own back reference syntax
23:10	hiredman	$1
23:12	yangsx	hiredman: thanks, exactly what I'm looking for. I'm very unfamiliar with Java.
23:12	hiredman	,(.replace "123nd" "(\\d+)nd" "$1ND")
23:12	clojurebot	"123nd"
23:12	hiredman	er
23:13	hiredman	,(.replaceAll "123nd" "(\\d+)nd" "$1ND")
23:13	clojurebot	"123ND"
23:21	durka	hiredman: if lazy hexadecimal digits are satisfying enough, http://en.literateprograms.org/Pi_with_the_BBP_formula_(Python) should suffice. i don't understand it, but maybe i'll come back to it later if i'm bored again...
23:56	durka	Chouser: i just wrote a function with a parameter named "key", and tried to call clojure.core/key in the function, and it took me about 15 minutes to find the cause of the exception
23:57	durka	so there i am
23:57	durka	let this be a lesson to me
23:59	Chouser	:-) yes