#clojure – 2008-12-27

2008-12-27

00:58	mibu	hey does anyone know how to create a (sorted-map-by) by value?
01:23	replaca	mibu: still there?
02:20	replaca	I always expect to see a tumbleweed rolling through here about this time of night
02:57	replaca	and there went one, rolling through the darkness
03:43	Lau_of_DK	Good morning all
08:25	Lau_of_DK	Somebody help the slow student! The SqlDataReader that is used here, where do I dig up that class?
08:25	Lau_of_DK	(not java.sql)
08:38	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: looks like C# :P
08:44	Lau_of_DK	Do you realise how much I regretted that question after posting?
08:44	Chousuke	:P
08:44	Lau_of_DK	But the C# approach is very very nice compared to Javas preparedStatement/addBatch
08:49	Chousuke	I suppose.
08:50	Lau_of_DK	and addBatch forces me to record types as well :(
09:54	Lau_of_DK	ClojureQL now supports dynamic values in Query/Insert-into structures: (let [abc 5] (sql (query [id name] developers.employees (= id ~abc))))
11:16	Lau_of_DK	oh my :(
11:19	chrisn	hi lau
11:19	Lau_of_DK	Hey my friend :)
11:20	chrisn	did you try out the program?
11:20	Lau_of_DK	not yet :(
11:20	chrisn	I checked in a new repl_wave or something like that.
11:20	chrisn	All you have to do is load it
11:20	chrisn	And you should get the demo
11:22	Lau_of_DK	Cool
11:22	Lau_of_DK	I've pull in a little while
11:22	Lau_of_DK	I'll
11:23	chrisn	let me know
11:42	sooth	Is HEAD useable?
11:43	Lau_of_DK	chrisn: It might be a couple of hours :( Sorry
11:44	chrisn	don't worry about it. I have a bunch of details to wrap up.
12:45	Lau_of_DK	Question: if I have {:a 5} and {:b 10}, how do I merge them into {:a 5, :b 10} ?
12:50	zakwilson	Lau_of_DK: (assoc map1 (interleave (keys map2) (vals map2)) should work. I don't know of a built in function to do this.
12:53	dudleyf	(doc merge)
12:53	clojurebot	Returns a map that consists of the rest of the maps conj-ed onto the first. If a key occurs in more than one map, the mapping from the latter (left-to-right) will be the mapping in the result.; arglists ([& maps])
12:58	Lau_of_DK	zakwilson: Thanks, I was fidling with interleave a minute ago, but didnt get that far :)
12:59	zakwilson	Lau_of_DK: it looks like merge or conj is the right answer.
12:59	Lau_of_DK	Not sure
13:09	zakwilson	(merge {:a 5} {:b 10})
13:14	Lau_of_DK	prefix with ,
13:14	Lau_of_DK	,(merge {:a 5} {:b 10})
13:14	clojurebot	{:b 10, :a 5}
13:15	zakwilson	Ahh... I see.
13:20	sooth	Is trunk supposed to be useable?
13:20	Lau_of_DK	sooth: yea...
13:21	sooth	Nobody having problems with latest?
13:21	danlarkin	sooth: did you ant clean after you svn up'ed?
13:21	sooth	danlarkin: No. Why do I need to clean first?
13:22	Chousuke	doesn't the default build target do that automatically anyway
13:22	sooth	danlarkin: That did it. Thanks
13:22	Lau_of_DK	svn is bad, git is good
13:23	danlarkin	Chousuke: no, just running "ant" does not "ant clean", otherwise it wouldn't really be an incremental build would it :)
13:37	Lau_of_DK	Isnt there a simply way to go from {:a 5, :b 10} => "a, b" ?
13:42	hoeck	Lau_of_DK: (apply str (interpose ", " (map name (keys {:a 1, :b 2})))) is the simplest way I'm aware of at the moment
13:43	Lau_of_DK	uh good, I forgot about 'name', thanks hoeck
13:44	Lau_of_DK	Good crowd, thanks :)
13:44	jgracin	are there any restrictions as to the size of array given to 'apply'?
13:44	hoeck	no problem, we're basically working on the same thing :)
13:45	jgracin	any reason why 'reduce' should be preferred to apply in the above solution?
13:45	hoeck	jgracin: i think not
13:45	Chousuke	danlarkin: actually, looking at the build file, yes it does.
13:47	Chousuke	jgracin: apply is better.
13:47	hoeck	jgracin: str is optimized for apply, builds only one stringbuilder instead of many when used in reduce
13:47	jgracin	hoeck: I see.
13:48	jgracin	thanks
13:59	danlarkin	Chousuke: no I'm pretty sure the default ant task does not clean
14:02	Lau_of_DK	Couldnt somebody just make that update script already?
14:07	Lau_of_DK	(sql (insert-into developers.employees :id ~abc :name "Frank" :language "PHP" :iq ~xyz))
14:07	Lau_of_DK	{:type :dk.bestinclass.clojureql/Insert, :table developers.employees, :values {:name "Frank", :iq (clojure.core/unquote xyz), :language "PHP", :id (clojure.core/unquote abc)}, :env {:xyz 5, :abc 8}, :sql "INSERT INTO developers.employees (name, iq, language, id) VALUES (Frank, ?, PHP, ?)"}
14:07	Lau_of_DK	Uuuh it works so well now :)
14:11	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: looks sweet!
14:11	Chousuke	danlarkin: <target name="init" depends="clean">
14:11	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: thanks, its really shaping up, but suggestions for query-forms and such are very welcome
14:11	Chousuke	I think that was a recent change.
14:12	danlarkin	Chousuke: I'm at 1162 and I have <target name="init">
14:13	Chousuke	danlarkin: heh
14:14	Chousuke	danlarkin: the change was made in 1163 :)
14:14	danlarkin	ohhh I still haven't switched over to the google code reo
14:14	danlarkin	repo
14:14	danlarkin	well, that explains it
14:24	Lau_of_DK	Does anyone here have a good info site on how to work with Java/sql in a parameterized fasion ?
14:32	Lau_of_DK	Do we 'switch' in Clojure?
14:37	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: what's that mean?
14:37	Lau_of_DK	(switch x 1: do-1 2: do-2 :else do-this)
14:38	sooth	cond?
14:39	Lau_of_DK	Its cond, just more concise, because you can leave out the comparator
14:41	Lau_of_DK	its a simple macro to write, so dont worry about it
14:42	chrisn	why not use multimethods?
14:42	Lau_of_DK	I might do that, but its a littled bloated if you ask me
14:42	chrisn	They are more amenable to extension at runtime
14:42	chrisn	That is why I like them. They are very syntaxy.
14:43	Lau_of_DK	In this case, extension doesnt go a long way, Im just testing class types
14:44	chrisn	what about class hierarchy?
14:44	Lau_of_DK	What about it?
14:44	arbscht_	Lau_of_DK: clojure.contrib has a few goodies like {f,in-,re-}case and condp
14:44	chrisn	switch statements break quickly when you have objects derived from other objects.
14:44	Lau_of_DK	arbscht_: cool, I'll have a look
14:45	Lau_of_DK	chrisn: These are primitive data-types
14:45	chrisn	Your execution is dependent upon switch order, not upon derivation hierarchy as one would like
14:45	chrisn	oh fine then
14:45	chrisn	use your goddamn switch statements :).
14:45	Lau_of_DK	I see what you're saying and the entire design of my program is based on multimethods... I just want this little switch thing :)
14:49	Lau_of_DK	(let [xyz 5 abc 8]
14:49	Lau_of_DK	(backend/execute (sql (query [id name] developers.employees (and (> id ~xyz) (< id ~abc))))))
14:49	Lau_of_DK	{:name Jack D., :id 6}
14:49	Lau_of_DK	{:name Mike, :id 7}
14:49	Lau_of_DK	Check it out guys, thats one Lispy SQL query! :)
14:50	arbscht_	neat
14:59	zakwilson	Lau_of_DK: Have you seen CLSQL?
15:00	Lau_of_DK	No - Is it much different from SchemeQL ?
15:10	kabny	bah I go crazy with wireless on Ubuntu!
15:10	kabny	i want to swap to linux because it is better for programming but ,my god...
15:13	Lau_of_DK	kabny: You should check with the good folks at #ubuntu or whatever distro you use, but it really is quite simple
15:13	Lau_of_DK	Ubuntu comes with madwifi, works with almost everything. If it doesnt work with your device, you can wrap your windows driver with ndiswrapper. If that doesnt work, get a cable
15:13	kabny	clojurebot : contrib?
15:15	kabny	contrib?
15:15	kabny	clojurebot
15:15	kabny	, (+ 2 3 4)
15:15	kabny	,(+ 2 3 4)
15:15	clojurebot	9
15:16	kabny	,(+ 2 3 4 5)
15:16	clojurebot	14
15:16	kabny	,contrib?
15:16	kabny	how do I ask?
15:16	dreish	clojurebot: contrib
15:16	clojurebot	contrib is http://sourceforge.net/projects/clojure-contrib/
15:17	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: contrib is http://clojure-contrib.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clojure-contrib/trunk/
15:17	clojurebot	In Ordnung
15:17	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: contrib?
15:17	clojurebot	contrib is http://clojure-contrib.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clojure-contrib/trunk/
15:17	arbscht_	aren't they moving to code.google?
15:17	kotarak	Hmmm... isn't that move to google code?
15:17	arbscht_	heh
15:17	Lau_of_DK	hey wait.. isnt that moved to google?
15:40	Lau_of_DK	clojurebot: clojure-mode?
15:40	clojurebot	clojure-mode is an Emacs mode for Clojure, found at git://github.com/jochu/clojure-mode.git
15:40	Lau_of_DK	Is the maintainer of this mode present in this channel tonight?
15:42	Chousuke	yeah, contrib is at google code
15:42	Chousuke	http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
15:42	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: I haven't been able to contact him. wanted to fix the way he handles autoloads
15:43	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: Also the highlighting is surpassed by Vim-mode now Im told, which is UNACCEPTABLE! :)
15:43	kabny	can someone explain to me how to correctly install contrib on windows?
15:43	kabny	should I just zip the folder contrib?
15:43	Chousuke	run ant
15:43	kabny	could it need some external packages too?
15:43	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: that's crazy! what specifically is the difference?
15:44	Lau_of_DK	apply, reduce and other functions are not highthed in Emacs, but are in Vim
15:44	Lau_of_DK	kabny: Step #1) Install Linux, Step #2) Follow Linux instructions (ie, type ant)
15:44	technomancy	those are just normal functions though... not sure if they deserve to be highlighted.
15:45	technomancy	not sure if it's wise to highlight every single function in core, I mean
15:45	Lau_of_DK	What could it hurt?
15:46	technomancy	I guess it's just a matter of consistency. Special forms should be highlighted so you know normal evaluation rules don't apply, but if you start highlighting everything you lose that information.
15:47	Lau_of_DK	Its just a matter of choosing the right colors
15:47	kotarak	technomancy: special forms are highlighted differently to macros or functions
15:47	Lau_of_DK	blue = func, green = special form
15:48	technomancy	ah, I didn't realize they were different.
15:48	kabny	how do I run ant on windows?
15:48	Lau_of_DK	kabny: I already explained :)
15:49	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: if it's still consistent and distinguished from special functions, seems like a good idea to add all the functions in core then.
15:50	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: if you can't get ahold of the author either, just fork it on github and let me know so I can pull from you.
15:50	Lau_of_DK	OK - Youre not up for forking? :)
15:52	technomancy	I forked it already.
15:52	kabny	Lau: but like I said before fooken ubuntu wireless doesnt work
15:53	technomancy	wow, I didn't realize there were still wifi chipsets that weren't supported.
15:53	Lau_of_DK	kabny: alright alright :) If you invest a little time you'll get it to work. I have a brand new laptop with premium wifi-card, detect OOB in Intrepid
15:53	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: So you dont want me to fork ?
15:54	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: you can have your own fork.
15:54	Lau_of_DK	Thanks
15:54	technomancy	if the original maintainer comes back online it makes it easier to tell which changes came from whom.
15:55	Lau_of_DK	Wonder what happend, it came out so quickly, then withered
15:55	technomancy	dunno
15:55	technomancy	I wouldn't mind becoming the de-facto maintainer if this guy steps down or disappears
15:55	technomancy	since I'm pretty comfortable with elisp.
15:55	Lau_of_DK	If you have your own fork, just start putting in the work
15:55	Lau_of_DK	Can you post a Github link ?
15:56	technomancy	sure: http://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode/tree/master
15:56	Lau_of_DK	Im watching you
15:56	technomancy	I could add the functions, but I'm not likely to get around to it right away... so if you want it faster you can make your own fork, add it, and let me know.
15:57	Lau_of_DK	Or you can give me push rights to your repo, that might be simpler
15:57	technomancy	it's not that complicated to deal with pulling between repos, but if you're just starting out with git and don't feel comfortable with that, I could do that
15:58	Lau_of_DK	In the true Non-Git spirit, I just feel its better allround to have 1 public repo
15:58	technomancy	heh
15:58	technomancy	what's your github ID?
15:58	technomancy	same as IRC?
15:59	Lau_of_DK	Lau-of-DK
15:59	Lau_of_DK	(dont support underscore, which is a great reason for switching to Bitbucket)
15:59	technomancy	heh
16:01	gnuvince	;-)
16:01	gnuvince	Hg and BitBucket are nice.
16:01	Lau_of_DK	Indeed
16:01	gnuvince	Too bad Git is just unstoppable
16:01	Lau_of_DK	Doesnt make a difference does it
16:03	gnuvince	The "git doesn't track files, it tracks content" is sort of weird to me, and there are some things I like better about Mercurial, but in the end, it seems that Git's adoption rate is way greater than that of Mercurial, so I'm reluctantly learning to use it.
16:05	Lau_of_DK	kotarak pointed out some pretty superior ways of dealings with minor-commits in terms of patching, so I promised him that the next tag-team work we do will be in Hg... I will miss Egg though
16:06	kotarak	I don't know, whether they are superior. They just fit my style of working.
16:07	Chousuke	what kind of ways?
16:09	kotarak	Using patch queues of hg.
16:10	Chousuke	the wiki page says it's like quilt for git
16:11	kotarak	quilt is independent of git, AFAIK.
16:11	kabny	Git + Github is awesome, everybody use it pleas ek thanks
16:12	kotarak	hg + bitbucket is awesome, everybody use it please k thanks
16:12	Lau_of_DK	hmm, I must give kotarak + bitbucket points for spelling
16:13	kabny	technomanyc: where can I check if it is supported or not(my wifi chipset, i have realtek RTL8187B)?
16:13	Chousuke	kotarak: having a patch queue sounds a lot like having a topic brach for changes.
16:14	technomancy	kabny: I usually check thinkwiki.org, but that's somewhat thinkpad-specific.
16:14	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: You mean instead of applying/removing pathes, you just branch and merge?
16:14	kotarak	Chousuke: but it's not quite the same. eg. you can't exchange the order of two commits.
16:14	Chousuke	kotarak: sure you can
16:14	Lau_of_DK	You can ? :)
16:14	Chousuke	it's just git rebase --interactive
16:15	technomancy	or you can do it all out of Emacs with magit. =)
16:15	Lau_of_DK	...or Egg
16:15	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: I pushed out my autoload changes for clojure-mode.el
16:15	kotarak	Chousuke: hmmm, you can merge or skip or keep commits, but also exchange the order? Then I misread the docs.
16:15	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: cool
16:16	Chousuke	so, branch from master, work, git rebase --interactive master, edit commits however you like, then merge master with the cleaned up branch.
16:16	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: technomancy added you to clojure-mode 16 minutes ago
16:16	Lau_of_DK	Does this mean that I can push to it ?
16:16	Chousuke	maybe it's not as nice as mercurial's patch queues though... hmm.
16:17	Chousuke	I haven't used mercurial so I don't know exactly how it works.
16:17	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: Do you run rebase while youre in the experimental branch ?
16:17	kotarak	Chousuke: basically it shows again, that both, git and hg, are mostly equivalent. :)
16:17	Chousuke	there's also http://repo.or.cz/w/topgit.git
16:17	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: you should be able to.
16:17	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: yeah.
16:18	kotarak	never got topgit to work.
16:18	Lau_of_DK	ClojureQL was founded on a 2� hour discussion about Hg vs Git, whereafter we proceeded to discuss Emacs vs Vim for ~15 hours....
16:18	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: or when you're done with your changes, you can branch a new cleanup branch and rebase that instead :P
16:18	kotarak	Always complained, that the topic branch was not topgit-controlled, when in fact it was.
16:19	technomancy	hah... /me just used a comma for unquote instead of ~
16:19	technomancy	that's going to take a lot of getting used to
16:19	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: So basically rebase is a reversed merge where you push change into the master branch, and your experimental branch will then function as a patch ?
16:20	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: rebase basically replays your changes on top of another branch
16:20	Chousuke	--interactive just allows you to quash, reorder or skip the changes when rebasing.
16:21	Lau_of_DK	In a Yes/No styled UI?
16:21	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: in a text editor :))
16:21	Chousuke	-)
16:22	Lau_of_DK	ok
16:22	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: Are you quite happy with adding all the highlights manually in clojure-font-lock-keywords?
16:23	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: that sounds fine, yeah.
16:24	Lau_of_DK	but...
16:24	Lau_of_DK	:)
16:26	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: I'm going to submit it to ELPA too.
16:27	Lau_of_DK	ELPA? I had to google it
16:27	Lau_of_DK	Definitioner af ELPA p� nettet p�: Engelsk
16:27	Lau_of_DK
16:27	Lau_of_DK	* The Automobile and Touring Club of Greece
16:27	Lau_of_DK	But it makes sense I guess
16:27	technomancy	it's the package manager for elisp
16:27	technomancy	very handy
16:27	Lau_of_DK	k
16:34	technomancy	anyone else wish clojure had a package manager too?
16:34	kabny	Where is the ant_home vaiable?
16:37	kabny	Where is the ant_home vaiable?
16:37	fyuryu	kabny: what OS? it's an environment variable
16:38	kabny	windows
16:38	fyuryu	do you have ant?
16:38	kabny	yes
16:39	fyuryu	kabny: Win+Pause -> Advenced -> Environment variables (or something, I don't have English windows version)
16:39	kabny	yes im there
16:39	kabny	but there is no ant_home variable
16:40	fyuryu	then add it
16:40	kabny	should ia dd it to user-variables
16:40	kabny	ok
16:40	kabny	to system or users?
16:40	fyuryu	and put path to ant directory as value
16:40	fyuryu	user
16:41	fyuryu	but it doesn't matter if you're the only user
16:42	kabny	C:/ant/;
16:42	kabny	ANT_HOME
16:42	kabny	i tshouldnt be to the ant.jar?
16:42	fyuryu	kabny: drop the semicolon
16:42	kabny	I get "ant not recognized as a..."
16:42	kabny	when doing ant form the command line
16:43	fyuryu	reopen the command line
16:44	kabny	i did
16:45	fyuryu	still the same? try typing: set ANT_HOME=C:\ant
16:47	fyuryu	kabny: wait a minute, did you add ant bin directory to PATH?
16:49	kabny	yes works now but
16:49	kabny	Unable to locate tools.jar. Expected to find it in C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\li
16:49	kabny	b\tools.jar
16:50	kabny	and I dont have tools.jar
16:50	kabny	what is it and how do I get it?
16:51	fyuryu	do you have jdk installed or only java runtime?
16:51	bOR_	hehe. a mirror of my own problems.
16:52	bOR_	setenv JAVA_HOME /usr/java/jdk1.6.0_11/
16:52	bOR_	setenv PATH "/home/boris/.local/bin:/usr/local/ii/bin/:/usr/java/jdk1.6.0_11/bin:/usr/java/jdk1.6.0_11/lib${PATH}"
16:52	bOR_	solved it for me.
16:52	bOR_	cshrc shell.
16:54	fyuryu	kabny: and as bOR_ said, JAVA_HOME needs to be set to the jdk dir
16:55	kabny	jre jdk i ahve both
16:56	kabny	java_home i should create too then?
16:56	fyuryu	kabny: yes
16:56	kabny	ah there tools is
16:57	kabny	wiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!1
16:57	kabny	thanks
16:57	kabny	now lets see
16:57	kabny	just ant contrib?
16:58	fyuryu	just ant
16:58	kabny	uh?
16:58	kabny	inside trunk?
16:59	kabny	should I first place trunk in the dir of Clojure
16:59	fyuryu	in the directory in which build.xml is present
16:59	kabny	yes
16:59	fyuryu	kabny: no
16:59	kabny	but where will it then place the contrib stuff?
16:59	kabny	how will ant now where to put it?
16:59	kabny	C:/clojure
16:59	fyuryu	it won't
17:00	fyuryu	you'll have to do it yourself
17:00	fyuryu	ant will produce clojure-contrib.jar
17:00	kabny	i see now!
17:00	bOR_	ok. my turn for a question.
17:00	bOR_	for is a nice macro.
17:01	fyuryu	and you just have to have it in you classpath (see clojure wiki for example of a handy .bat script )
17:02	bOR_	but I don't see how I can use it to translate ([ 1 2 3] [1 2] [4 5 6]) into (114 115 116 124 125 126 214 215 216 etc)
17:02	bOR_	with variable length collections fed to it.
17:02	bOR_	seems like I've to spell out the structure of the collection in order to get all the permutations.
17:03	bOR_	( the [x [ 1 2 3] y [1 2] z [4 5 6]] [x y z] version does what I want)
17:05	bOR_	(but I don't always know the length of the set of collections coming in)
17:05	bOR_	should check if one of clojure's library has a permutation-like function.
17:06	kabny	check seq-utils
17:06	fyuryu	bOR_: i think there was something for permutations in contrib
17:06	kabny	seq-utils...
17:07	fyuryu	bOR_: also: http://github.com/rosado/libs4clj/tree/master/rosado/math/permutations.clj
17:07	kabny	how do you import from contrib?
17:07	kabny	(import '(clojure-contrib sql)) fails
17:07	bOR_	thanks
17:08	fyuryu	(require '(clojure.contrib sql))
17:08	fyuryu	kabny: the namespace is clojure.contrib
17:09	kabny	ah
17:09	kabny	import from java and require for clojure-libs in general?
17:09	kabny	is contrib sql ready to use directly?
17:09	kabny	I have jdbc+derby working with clojure already
17:10	fyuryu	kabny: yes, import for java stuff
17:10	fyuryu	kabny: no idea about sql, never used it so far
17:11	kabny	and then how do I call stuff inside sql? sql/f ?
17:12	kabny	and that is recommended? you dont import the whole namespace so to speak so you can refer to functions directly?
17:12	fyuryu	kabny: clojure.contrib.sql/f, but it's better to (require '[clojure.contrib sql :as sql])
17:13	fyuryu	kabny: then you can call (sql/f ...))
17:13	kabny	ah i see
17:13	fyuryu	kabny: you can also (use '(lib.name ))
17:14	kabny	and then i can refer to f direclt(which i dont want i like tos ee where stuff is coming from)?
17:14	fyuryu	kabny: to have everything from the lib in yo namespace
17:14	fyuryu	kabny: yes
17:17	kabny	if u do onylk require, how do you calla function?
17:17	kabny	(require '[clojure.contrib sql :as sql])
17:17	kabny	doesnt work
17:18	kabny	user=> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: Keyword (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
17:18	kotarak	(require '[clojure.contrib.sql :as sql])
17:18	kotarak	or (require '(clojure.contrib [sql :as sql]))
17:18	fyuryu	kabny: (require '[clojure.contrib.sql :as sql])
17:19	fyuryu	kabny: sorry, there was a mistake in my first example (note the dot between contrib and sql)
17:19	kabny	why 2 different?
17:19	kabny	no worries works now
17:20	kabny	when writing sql in the prompt after successfull import it says not found but sql/insert-values works. shouldnt sql at leats return "namespace sql" or something?
17:20	kotarak	kabny: the first is for a single shot, while the second form is nice for several require's: (require '(clojure.contrib [sql :as sql] [def :as d] duck-streams))
17:28	Lau_of_DK	technomancy: I added all the functions from the Sequences page on Clojure.com.... by hand :P
17:38	technomancy	thanks! =)
17:41	technomancy	Lau_of_DK: can you push that out?
17:41	Lau_of_DK	I was rejected, investigating
17:43	kabny	hmm i thought there was permutations in seq-utils?
17:44	kabny	it isnt there...
17:44	Lau_of_DK	Ok, done
17:44	Lau_of_DK	its in lazy-seq
17:44	technomancy	cool
17:45	Lau_of_DK	I gotta hit the sack, will add more when time becomes cheaper :)
17:46	kabny	I want to start mp3s(and other media files) froma clojure-app, is there a good Java-library for this?
17:49	danlarkin	he maintains swank-clojure too, to which he just pushed last night
17:49	danlarkin	so he is active in some capacity, at least
17:49	technomancy	ah, good to know.
17:50	kabny	how do I import a jar-file that contains numbers? ie jl1.0.jar?
17:50	kabny	emacs seems to chopit up
18:03	kabny	how do I import a jar-file that contains numbers? ie jl1.0.jar?
18:03	kabny	emacs seems to chopit up
18:06	danlarkin	kabny: what do you mean emacs chops it up?
18:07	kabny	oh wait now it works allt he sudden
18:08	kabny	so is it possible to do applets with clojure?
18:18	danlarkin	kabny: yup. I haven't done it myself but I've read of people doing it
18:18	danlarkin	kabny: isn't web start the new hotness though?
18:20	kabny	dont even know what web start is
18:33	kabny	ah i will look into web start after chekcing wikipedia seems cool :)
19:08	kabny	for miglayout, which jar should i download?
19:08	kabny	http://migcalendar.com/miglayout/versions/3.6.2/
19:08	kabny	all?
19:08	kabny	or just miglayout-3.6.2.jar?
19:09	kabny	the miglayout that comes with contrib doesnt come with miglayout does it?
19:09	kotarak	depends on what you want to do. If you use Swing, the swing jar is sufficient.
19:09	kotarak	No. Contrib does not contain the miglayout jar
19:10	kabny	(require '[clojure.contrib.miglayout :as mig])
19:10	kabny	user=> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: net.miginfocom.swing.MigLayout (miglayout.clj:0)
19:10	kabny	you mean miglayout-3.6.2-swing.jar is enough?
19:11	kotarak	Then the miglayout jar is not in your classpath.
19:11	kotarak	kabny: yes. worked for me.
19:11	kabny	you mean miglayout-3.6.2.jar everything?
19:11	kabny	is miglayout-3.6.2.jar everything?
19:11	kotarak	I think so.
19:12	kabny	how do I tell the classpath to include everything in a dir?
19:13	kotarak	I don't know, how you do it with Java. Have a script, that does that for me.
19:13	technomancy	it's remarkable how hard to use the classpath is compared to the load path of other languages.
19:13	kabny	now it worked to import. thanks!
19:13	kabny	yes
19:14	kabny	but I keep hearing it makes it flexible
19:14	technomancy	I find that hard to believe.
19:14	kotarak	technomancy: never had problems with the classpath. But, in some funny way, I never have the usual problems... :]
19:15	technomancy	kotarak: it's really annoying how you can use apt-get to install a Java library, but then that library is not available to you unless you change your shell invocation of clojure.
19:15	kotarak	The jar stuff, was really nice up to now: download jar, add to classpath, works. But maybe my setups are very simple...
19:15	technomancy	there's no mechanism for systemwide libraries
19:15	technomancy	kotarak: the second step is unnecessary in languages with better load-path mechanisms.
19:16	kotarak	technomancy: I use a modified clj.sh from some github repo. It uses the directory from CLOJURE_LIB (or similar named) to load all jar therein.
19:16	kotarak	technomancy: then for me it amounts to: download jar. Drop in correct directory. Works.
19:17	technomancy	right but (0) that should be built-in to the JVM instead of requiring a separate download and (1) there's no generally accepted convention for the location of that directory.
19:17	kotarak	Then there might be other packages managers like apt-get, which could build up a CLASSPATH on the fly.
19:17	technomancy	and (2) you're back to manually managing dependencies, which is a waste of time; the computer should handleg that for you
19:18	kotarak	technomancy: add (1) which is a good thing, because that is the responsibility of the system in use. Mac will certainly differ from Linux as will Windows.
19:18	kabny	contrib url again pls?
19:19	kabny	clojurebot: contrib?
19:19	clojurebot	contrib is http://clojure-contrib.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clojure-contrib/trunk/
19:19	Chousuke	no
19:20	Chousuke	kabny: http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
19:20	Chousuke	clojurebot: contrib is http://code.google.com/p/clojure-contrib/
19:20	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
20:05	technomancy	kotarak: apt-get can't build up the classpath for you because there's nontrivial overhead for every entry into the classpath... so every java library you install would slow down the jvm more.
20:05	technomancy	that's the fatal flaw
20:05	technomancy	otherwise you could treat it just like a regular lisp's load-path
20:07	technomancy	the CLI interaction (with classpath woes) is the only thing worse in clojure than other lisps
20:09	technomancy	I hope to see if it can be improved by using hashdot (http://hashdot.sourceforge.net) which looks promising.
20:13	kabny	what is the advantage of gogle code over github?
20:13	kabny	or why is contrib on google code?
20:13	kotarak	because SVN is used instead of git
20:13	kabny	heresy!
20:18	kotarak	kabny: besides: gc has a wiki, bug tracker, download area, code reviews, ...
20:18	kabny	doesnt github?
20:20	danlarkin	kabny: don't bother with the DVCS argument
20:29	technomancy	github doesn't have a bug tracker and doesn't let you track releases in quite so fine-grained a fashion
20:30	technomancy	not that clojure has any releases to track, but whatever.
20:30	technomancy	and it's not using the bug tracker either... huh.
20:30	kabny	does (Hmm. xxxx) mean (new Hmm xxxx) ?
20:30	technomancy	I think so.
20:38	kabny	can I do (doc someJavaMethod) somehow?
20:47	danlarkin	kabny: there's a show function in contrib
20:47	danlarkin	repl-utils or something?
20:48	kabny	and it is possible to start the repl with that included?
20:48	technomancy	what's a good resource for learning how to use Dates in Java?
20:48	technomancy	everything Google turns up is either trivial or so verbose that it sounds like gibberish.
20:49	eric-at-home	technomancy: standard java dates are always so verbose that they seem like gibberish :-(
20:49	technomancy	eric-at-home: that's what I was afraid of.
20:49	eric-at-home	calendar is the class that's able to do more than just store a date value, but it has a very poor api
20:50	eric-at-home	there's another option
20:50	technomancy	I assume clojure doesn't have anything special?
20:50	eric-at-home	joda time is an alternative with a better design, calendar is the standard but isn't as good
20:51	eric-at-home	I'm a Java programmer by day and am gradually moving our codebase from standard java date/time to joda time.
20:51	technomancy	huh... I just need to store a simple value for this.
20:52	eric-at-home	then you dont need any of that. java.util.Date has everything you need.
20:52	technomancy	shouldn't this work after importing Date? (.Date 2008 12 27)
20:52	eric-at-home	Does that call the Date constructor on three arguments? If so it looks right.
20:53	technomancy	maybe I just don't know how to read JavaDoc, but it says lists in the Constructor Summary: Date(int year, int month, int day)
20:54	technomancy	oh wait... it's deprecated in favour of a method that takes a long... which is totally useless for me! yay.
20:54	dreish	Did you mean (Date. 2008 12 27)?
20:54	technomancy	dreish: ah... that works.
20:54	eric-at-home	(new Date 2008 12 27) does something.
20:54	technomancy	can you tell I haven't been doing this long? =)
20:54	eric-at-home	Note that it isn't 1 indexed.
20:55	eric-at-home	Your date is jan 27.
20:55	technomancy	eric-at-home: you're kidding.
20:55	eric-at-home	oh, and the year is 3909.
20:55	eric-at-home	java has an incredibly stupid api.
20:56	technomancy	this whole "access Java, without any wrappers" being touted as a strength is starting to seem kind of duplicitous
20:56	eric-at-home	days start with 1, months start with 0, and years is the current year minus 1970.
20:56	technomancy	...
20:56	technomancy	ok, fuck that. I'm going to use a struct.
20:57	technomancy	eric-at-home: thanks for the tips. I know crazy when I see it.
20:57	eric-at-home	I recommend making a wrapper for dates. not all java apis are that bad, but this one sure is.
20:57	dreish	technomancy: Without any wrappers doesn't mean you're not allowed to make one.
20:58	technomancy	dreish: right, it's just not "batteries included"
20:58	eric-at-home	Java has a standard SQL library, but clojure-contrib is getting a wrapper for it. I imagine dates will be the same way.
20:59	eric-at-home	those were the two java apis that always bothered me the most.
20:59	technomancy	one would certainly hope
20:59	technomancy	surely there's something out there already, even if it's not in contrib
20:59	eric-at-home	i'm pretty happy with clojure.
20:59	technomancy	I love it too! I just have high expectations. =)
20:59	dreish	technomancy: It's an awfully new language.
21:00	kabny	jdbc seems ok but contrib-sql seems like an improvement and hopefully someone is making it even better?
21:00	kabny	i started on my own wrapper for jdbc too
21:00	eric-at-home	jdbc is not okay :-(
21:00	technomancy	dreish: I know... the advantage of that is that I can help shape the future direction.
21:00	kabny	why not?
21:00	kabny	anyone good with miglayout? how do I make a textfield span 3 columns without extending the button on the row over it to do the same
21:00	kabny	?
21:01	eric-at-home	jdbc provides the basic capabilities for accessing a database, but it's too low level to be using directly.
21:01	technomancy	and then everyone can blame me five years down the road when "clojure style" becomes something more concrete... like they do with Ruby and the libraries written in 2000. =)
21:10	kabny	clojurebot: blame technomancy for all failures
21:10	clojurebot	I don't understand.
21:11	kabny	where is clojurebot commands?
21:11	inertia-	what is the likelihood that clojure will be easily portable to other VMs?
21:12	eric-at-home	inertia: If portability to other VMs were a goal, using Java without wrappers would be a very bad idea.
21:12	inertia-	:)
21:12	inertia-	reliance on the jvm scares me
21:13	inertia-	especially when llvm looks "so cool"
21:13	eric-at-home	I like the jvm much better than java the language.
21:13	inertia-	of course, but that's not my point
21:13	inertia-	i've been using ppc linux for the last 6 months
21:13	inertia-	and the FOSS jvm options are just not that great compared to our friend mr. hotspot
21:14	inertia-	which has current binaries, afaik, only available for x86
21:14	eric-at-home	I use x86 and Mr. Hotspot :-)
21:14	inertia-	well you are a disgusting binary blob consumer ;)
21:15	eric-at-home	Yes, I also prefer web applications because it means I don't need to care about portability of my tools.
21:15	inertia-	sure, fine
21:15	kabny	clojurebot: technomancy is to blame for all failures
21:15	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
21:15	kabny	clojurebot: technomancy?
21:15	clojurebot	technomancy is to blame for all failures
21:15	kabny	hihi
21:16	eric-at-home	does clojure work on the FOSS jvms?
21:16	kabny	foss=?
21:16	eric-at-home	free and open source software
21:22	kabny	how about adnroid+clojure?
21:23	kabny	im currently writing a webapp+android app, clojure for the web, java for the phone.
21:23	kabny	but can clojure generate classes for the dalvik vm?
21:23	kabny	would it be a problem with runtime overhead?
21:24	inertia-	eric-at-home: kind of; the last i checked it didn't load right after the AOT changes
21:24	inertia-	i dont know java or the jvm all that well
21:24	dreish	Last time I used clojure with IcedTea as included in Fedora 8, it was fine.
21:24	chrisn	What is the clojure equivalent to getClass().getResourceAsStream?
21:25	chrisn	Actually, what is the equiv to getClass?
21:27	chrisn	found it.
21:28	chrisn	look for a class of the same name as your namespace with __init appended
21:28	chrisn	haha
21:30	inertia-	dreish: ah right i never did get to compile that
21:30	inertia-	i was so relieved just to find a compliant 1.5 vm that i forgot about icepick :)
21:34	kabny	i want in mig:
21:34	kabny	a b c d
21:35	kabny	textfield f
21:35	kabny	so textfield goes from a to c and then button the same row
21:35	kabny	but if I say for example (JTextField 30) then a will be 30 too...
21:44	technomancy	kabny: it's not necessarily a blame for failures as it is for crazy-looking code (in the Ruby situation)
21:45	technomancy	like RDoc works great, but if you look at the original (circa 2000) implementation it makes you throw up a bit in the back of your throat.
21:45	technomancy	but maybe clojure's style won't evolve as much as Ruby's has.
21:46	technomancy	anyway, my main motivation for bringing up these shortcomings is to have someone point me to a workaround. =)
21:47	technomancy	or to have someone help me write a package manager for clojure that would abstract away dependencies, classpath craziness, etc... that would be good too
21:48	technomancy	I already have a name for it (packajes), but I don't think I'm ready to write a package manager as my first nontrivial clojure app. =)
21:49	kabny	yes that would be very nice
21:50	eric-at-home	My first non-trivial clojure app is a wordpress clone to host my blog - still working on that :-)
21:51	technomancy	I'm porting the application I wrote for the RailsDay 06 24-hour programming competition. Fun stuff.
21:52	technomancy	It's a huge mental break to work without an ORM. Stranger for me than immutability, for some reason.
21:54	kabny	so any miglayout gurus here or not?
21:57	eric-at-home	kabny: Looks like not. I never even heard of it.
22:00	kabny	i figured it out anyway, kind of
22:01	kabny	eric-at-home: its the ultimate layoutmanager for GUIs in Java...
22:02	eric-at-home	kabny: I do a fair amount of Java layout work, so I will need to look into that.
22:21	technomancy	whoa... you can't use cons to create improper lists... that's interesting!
22:21	technomancy	looks like it's trying to force the second arg into a sequence... but I thought conj was the sequence-specific version of cons.
22:30	technomancy	for CL, is ASDF a package manager?
22:31	technomancy	I can find lots of information about it, but nothing that actually explains what it is. (other than "mkdefsystem done right", which is not very helpful.)
22:34	technomancy	"The problem is not with ASDF, it's with the users." <- This is why it's good that Clojure hasn't inherited too much from CL. =)
22:59	kabny	if I want to distribute an exe-file how do I do? can Java produce exe-files? is that what jars are?
22:59	kabny	i know clojure recently got compile
22:59	kabny	but that creates jars or class-files right?
23:35	kabny	I must say I recommend miglayout for anyone doing GUIs and thanks a lot to whoever created miglayout for contrib!
23:48	eric-at-home	kabny: if you have a jar, the command to execute it is something like "java --jar yourprogram.jar" which is not quite as nice as "./yourprogram.jar"
23:50	kabny	so can I make an exe?
23:50	kabny	I mean for endusers it should just be doubleclick and then it should run
23:54	duck1123	In most operating systems you can easily set it so it's double clickable
23:55	duck1123	or at the very least, include a shell script / batch file