#clojure – 2008-12-24

2008-12-24

00:07	Chouser	hiredman: you could send the strings to a separate JVM process, and kill that off every few minutes
00:08	hiredman	:(
00:09	hiredman	I think I have the stop access to certain forms thing figured out
00:10	hiredman	now I just need to learn about thread groups
00:10	danlarkin	and how can you pee in the pool? can't you disallow things you don't want if you can check everything with first-ing tree-seq?
00:11	hiredman	I mean people can still pee in the sandbox if I just use the jvm's sandboxing stuff
00:11	hiredman	I think there is a way to actually clamp down on what classes can run
00:12	hiredman	but that will undoubtly begin to interfere with the clojure runtime
00:12	hiredman	"Thread groups are best viewed as an unsuccessful experiment, and you may simply ignore their existence."
00:12	hiredman	how encouraging
00:22	Chouser	if you use a sub-process, you'd still need the sandbox stuff to keep people from taking over your machine, but all the within-clojure issues would no longer be an issue.
00:23	hiredman	if I use a thread group, I still need to disallow send and send-off, because I have no control over those thread pools
00:23	Chouser	let them def and defmacro and try and catch and eval all they want. but after launching the subprocess, they get 5 seconds (or 30 or 90) before the sub-process gets killed
00:24	hiredman	:(
00:24	hiredman	seems so messy
00:25	Chouser	messier than trying to catch every possible attack vector individually, while disallowing the use of basic clojure features like agents and try/catch?
00:25	Chouser	anyway, it's just a thought.
00:25	Chouser	your box, your bot, you should do whatever you want. :-)
00:27	Chouser	clojurebot has proven his value in providing docs and svn announcements, seems to me.
00:28	hiredman	http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Safely_running_untrusted_Haskell_code
00:30	hiredman	I do really miss having that machine around
00:31	hiredman	well, it is around, it just doesn't have any thing installed on it, and it is busy moving from FreeBSD 6.2 -> FreeBSD 7-STABLE
00:33	hiredman	ugh
00:33	hiredman	christ
00:33	hiredman	I'll have to reinstall java
00:37	danlarkin	my belly hurts from laughing so much at this wacky japanese game show on hulu
00:46	danlarkin	pg strikes again! http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7lf1u/coding_challenge_divide_a_list_into_n_sublists/
01:21	kogu	hi, anyone using slime here?
01:22	kogu	how i do stop the repl window from coming up? I am using a dual screen setup, so I have a new frame, which is always set to show the repl on the second monitor
01:22	kogu	but now, when i run a function, my emacs window is split in half, how do i prevent that?
01:51	yangsx	kogu: C-x 1 or C-x 0 depending on which one you want to hide
05:17	hiredman	,(println :foo)
05:17	hiredman	clojurebot: hello?
05:17	clojurebot	Excuse me?
05:21	bOR_	clojurebot has become sentient?
05:22	hiredman	hmmm
05:23	hiredman	(use '[foo.bar :as f]) should let me call functions from foo.bar as f/function
05:23	hiredman	?
05:24	hiredman	or is that require?
05:24	hiredman	must be require
05:24	hiredman	nevermind
05:30	hiredman	,(println :foo)
05:30	clojurebot	:foo
06:17	Chousuke	hiredman: what's the licence on clojurebot btw? :P
06:20	Chousuke	hiredman: I made a clojurebot git project for myself, and just noticed that without a licence, I'm not allowed to do so :/
06:20	Chousuke	github project*
10:22	Lau_of_DK	Good afternoon all
10:22	danlarkin_	morning
10:22	danlarkin_	happy christmas eve!
10:26	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: An interesting fact, today is The Christmas day here in Denmark and it widely celebrated, the danes spend vasts amounts of money, but around 350 years ago this holiday was outlawed by the king.
10:27	danlarkin	for what reason?
10:28	Lau_of_DK	The King was a devout follower of Christ, and so he rightfully said "Who can in their right mind believe, that such celebrations honor God?"
10:29	danlarkin	haha
10:29	danlarkin	oh to be a monarch
10:29	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: he was right though.
10:29	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: Christmas is not originally a christian tradition.
10:29	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: I know - I dont celebrate christmas myself, for the very same reason
10:29	Lau_of_DK	(btw, will add your patch later, havent forgotten, just behind with the commit)
10:30	Chousuke	I don't really care, myself. I just have fun and enjoy the food and peace.
10:32	Chousuke	also, <3 git
10:33	Lau_of_DK	Weeeee :)
10:33	Chouser	bleh
10:34	Lau_of_DK	Imagine the awesome RAW power that would be thrust directly into the Clojure-community, if Chouser switched to Emacs
10:34	Chousuke	I was doing some mods to clojurebot and fumbled with the commits: committed an incomplete function by accident with another change, so I used history editing to remove the extra chunk from the commit :P
10:34	Lau_of_DK	cool, never tried that
10:34	Lau_of_DK	From the CL or from Emacs?
10:34	Chouser	Chousuke: that scares me
10:35	Chousuke	and then I noticed I had during that mangled the commits so that my branch was no longer fast-forwardable from master, but a quick git stash & rebase made it all well
10:35	duck1123	Chousuke: are you using magit?
10:35	Chousuke	duck1123: I used the git command line tool to do that.
10:35	Chousuke	I use magit with emacs though.
10:36	Lau_of_DK	Egg is nice
10:36	Chousuke	Chouser: it was easier than I thought. git commit --interactive is not exactly an intuitive interface, but it was easy once I figured out how it worked :P
10:37	Lau_of_DK	I use Egg for everything that it has, and for the few lacking features, I go with CL or Magit, mostly CL
10:38	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: Are you partying tonight, or do you have time for going through a macro ?
10:38	drewr	I do like magit's log history viewing.
10:39	Lau_of_DK	You doo?
10:39	Lau_of_DK	Maybe you'd want to check out Egg then
10:39	Lau_of_DK	Its #1
10:39	drewr	Maybe I will!
10:41	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: Do you mind if I post the video I showed you last night here, so they can see Egg ?
10:42	gnuvince_	Egg?
10:43	Lau_of_DK	I hope Chouser doesnt mind, but you can see Egg in the last 30 secs of this http://www.bestinclass.dk/download/desk.ogv
10:44	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: no, why would I mind?
10:44	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: Theres just a short glimpse of a chat we had (just chitchat) and a link to your screenshot
10:45	Chouser	ah. I'm sure it's fine. thanks for asking.
10:45	drewr	Lau_of_DK: Is that your video?
10:45	Lau_of_DK	Yea
10:45	Lau_of_DK	Good Chouser :) nps
10:45	gnuvince_	What is that fond?
10:45	gnuvince_	font*
10:45	Lau_of_DK	In Emacs?
10:45	gnuvince_	Yes
10:46	Lau_of_DK	I dont know, because I dont run with it normally because its too big (but good for video)
10:46	Lau_of_DK	An educated guess would be either DejaVu og Bitstreams Vera Sans Mono
10:46	drewr	Lau_of_DK: Is that a variable-width font?
10:46	Lau_of_DK	Im not sure
10:46	gnuvince_	It looks mono-width
10:46	Lau_of_DK	Bitstream Mono isnt
10:46	drewr	I guess it was just egg that wasn't lining things up right.
10:47	Lau_of_DK	(set-default-font "-bitstream-Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-normal-normal-normal--14----m-0-iso10646-1")
10:47	Lau_of_DK	This is my current
10:47	gnuvince_	Hmmm
10:47	drewr	I use bitstream mono too. Guess I didn't recognize it at that size.
10:47	gnuvince_	No you're right, it's variable width in the video.
10:47	Lau_of_DK	Sorry about any confusion, the point is simply this: Egg looks smashing
10:47	drewr	Any of you figure out Emacs 23's fontset stuff yet?
10:48	Lau_of_DK	And for your normal cycle of program, commit, checkout and such, it rocks
10:48	drewr	I'm sure it's more powerful, but I really just like set-default-font.
10:48	Lau_of_DK	drewr: figure it out? I just use the old strings for the new fonts, works fine
10:48	danlarkin	I think I prefer http://github.com/pieter/gitx/tree/master
10:49	drewr	Lau_of_DK: Doesn't work for me, but I'm on OS X and I think they changed a lot.
10:49	Lau_of_DK	Oh ok
10:49	Lau_of_DK	regarding the video, the font is not mono, thats why everything isnt aligned in EGg
10:50	Lau_of_DK	drewr: But you can select whatever font you want from the menu, select 2 characters on screen, M-x describe-char, and then you got your font string, then just (set-default-font <string>)
10:50	Lau_of_DK	Anyway, got to serve dinner for the kids :)
11:00	hiredman	clojurebot: ping?
11:00	clojurebot	PONG!
12:14	Lau_of_DK	dk.bestinclass.clojureql> (def xst '(> 3 5))
12:14	Lau_of_DK	#'dk.bestinclass.clojureql/xst
12:14	Lau_of_DK	dk.bestinclass.clojureql> (where xst)
12:14	Lau_of_DK	"xst"
12:14	Lau_of_DK	dk.bestinclass.clojureql> (where '(> 3 5))
12:15	Lau_of_DK	"3 > 5"
12:15	Lau_of_DK
12:15	Lau_of_DK	What am I not understanding? :)
12:19	duck1123	Lau_of_DK: where can I get clojureql? I've been wanting to play with that
12:25	danlarkin	duck1123: http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/clojureql/tree/master
12:25	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: where is a macro?
12:26	duck1123	danlarkin: sweet, thanks
12:30	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: if where is a macro, the arguments passed in are forms rather than values; so in (where xst) the first argument would be 'xst rather than its value '(> 3 5)
12:35	hiredman	clojurebot: clojureql is http://github.com/Lau-of-DK/clojureql/tree/master
12:35	clojurebot	Roger.
12:36	Lau_of_DK	Back :) Sorry for the abrubt disappearance
12:36	Lau_of_DK	duck1123: ClojureQL is nearly at alpha, I need to sort out the backend, which I might get through tonight
12:36	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: Its a macro, yes
12:37	duck1123	does anyone know if the SPARQL DSL stuff is up anywhere?
12:37	Lau_of_DK	duck1123: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/8964588c4a2183b
12:37	Lau_of_DK	All I have is that link
12:37	Chousuke	hiredman: so, what licence does clojurebot have? :)
12:38	Lau_of_DK	Chousuke: Educate the man, how can I then pass xst to the macro, so that it gets evaluated on the way in ?
12:39	duck1123	a job for unquote, perhaps?
12:40	Lau_of_DK	nope
12:43	duck1123	hmm... if ~ becomes a shortcut for c.c/unquote while not in a `, then would you have to do something like ~~a to get (unquote a) while in one?
12:43	duck1123	I haven't had the chance to play with it too much yet, so excuse me if I'm way off base
12:44	Lau_of_DK	My position is the same, so I'll have to experiment a bit
12:45	Lau_of_DK	To me its a little weird, that (class xst) and (class '(> 3 5)) are equals, yet evaluated differently
12:45	hiredman	hmm
12:47	duck1123	Lau_of_DK: wouldn't it make sense to try to use as much of clojure.contrib.sql as possible instead of re-inventing a lot of this?
12:48	Lau_of_DK	duck1123: Thats actually still undecided
12:48	Lau_of_DK	At first I was tempted to do so, but I'd like to build the backend myself so Im sure that everythings done right, and that I understand everything
12:50	duck1123	Lau_of_DK: is (where) not defined in the version on github? I'm not seeing the impl for it
12:51	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: class is not a macro
12:51	Lau_of_DK	No duck1123, quite alot has changed in the past 2 days, Im pushing changes within the hour
12:51	Lau_of_DK	http://paste.lisp.org/display/72572
12:53	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: your "e" parameter there is the symbol xst
12:53	Lau_of_DK	thats right
12:55	Lau_of_DK	(run-query (sql (query [col1 col2] table1 (or (> col1 col2) (= col1 100)))))
12:55	Lau_of_DK	"SELECT (col2,col1) FROM (table1) WHERE col1 > col2 or col1 = 100"
12:55	Lau_of_DK	This actually fires now, which is nice
12:59	clojurebot	svn rev 1181; change to AtomicLong for lastPoint
12:59	clojurebot	svn rev 1182; with-open accepts multiple bindings, patch from Meikel Brandmeyer
12:59	clojurebot	svn rev 1183; more uniform map literal implementation
12:59	clojurebot	svn rev 1184; ~x not in syntax-quote yields (clojure.core/unquote x) clojure.core/unquote has no root binding
12:59	clojurebot	svn rev 1185; added release-pending-sends
12:59	hiredman	woa there
12:59	Chousuke	hoh
12:59	hiredman	I guess svn is installed then
13:00	Chousuke	well now he left :(
13:11	Lau_of_DK	poor duck :)
13:18	duck1123	Lau_of_DK: ok, I just updated to the latest version of clojure, and (where ~xst) is working fine for me
13:21	Lau_of_DK	can you show me the repl output ?
13:21	duck1123	almost working I mean, it's not doing infix
13:21	Lau_of_DK	k, same here
13:21	duck1123	user> (where ~xst)
13:21	duck1123	"where (> 3 5)"
13:21	duck1123
13:23	Lau_of_DK	duck1123: I ended up doing this: When passing e to f, I (eval e) before, then it works specifically for my case
13:25	duck1123	Lau_of_DK: with that code, using ~a is the same as (eval a)
13:28	Lau_of_DK	Where works fine with (eval e) (dont know where you got a from?), but now I cant compile (compile-ast) ....
13:29	duck1123	'a was a random example variable
13:29	Lau_of_DK	k
13:40	Lau_of_DK	Greetings sohail :)
13:41	sohail	hey Lau_of_DK !
13:44	lisppaste8	Lau_of_DK pasted "Compile-Ast not compiling" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72615
13:45	Lau_of_DK	Gents, after I changed the last line of infixed from (f e) to (f (eval e)) the macro works as I want, but now compile-ast will not compile - what am I missing here?
14:07	Lau_of_DK	No takers?
14:15	danlarkin	no way to get around using eval I suppose
14:46	Lau_of_DK	danlarkin: okay, where would you use it? :)
14:54	danlarkin	Lau_of_DK: nah I guess it's an appropriate use, not sure why compile-ast doesn't compile either :-/
14:56	danlarkin	RSchulz: how many days do you think are in one year?
14:57	RSchulz	A lot fewer than 728!
14:57	danlarkin	but he said 364
14:58	RSchulz	And he said for "every other day of the year."
14:58	RSchulz	Meaning one present for every two days of the year.
14:58	danlarkin	364 + 1
14:58	danlarkin	oh.
14:58	danlarkin	jeez
14:58	danlarkin	that hurts
14:59	RSchulz	Puns are fun!
14:59	RSchulz	That's not exactly a pun, but...
14:59	Lau_of_DK	hehe, you guys drunk ?
14:59	RSchulz	Alternate interpretations are the heart of humor, especially if you're in that oh-so-literal of fields: Computer Programming.
14:59	RSchulz	Not yet!
14:59	RSchulz	It's only noon here!
15:00	dreish	That's no excuse.
15:00	danlarkin	it's always 5 somewhere!
15:00	RSchulz	So is it always too early or always too late?
15:00	Chouser	exactly
15:01	hiredman	,(println "? ")
15:01	clojurebot	?
15:01	hiredman	:)
15:01	RSchulz	clojurebot: Are you drunk?
15:01	clojurebot	excusez-moi
15:01	dreish	What code point is that? Wow.
15:01	RSchulz	Kind of sensitive, isn't he?
15:01	RSchulz	Me thinks the bot doth protest too much.
15:02	danlarkin	clojurebot: are you drunk is <reply> Yesh.
15:02	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
15:02	dreish	http://unicodesnowmanforyou.com/
15:02	dreish	Looks like it's wearing a fez. Maybe that's just my font.
15:02	RSchulz	Was there something in that println other than blanks?
15:02	hiredman	yes
15:02	hiredman	go fix your unicode
15:03	RSchulz	Hey. _I_ didn't write this thing!
15:03	dreish	U+2603
15:03	RSchulz	Is that _really_ a Unicode glyph?
15:03	dreish	http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2603/fontsupport.htm
15:03	RSchulz	It looks to me like it's wearing a lampshade.
15:03	RSchulz	(See immediately preceding conversation)
15:03	dreish	Yeah. I've never seen a snowman dressed like that.
15:04	danlarkin	snowman with a fez!
15:04	RSchulz	Someone's got too much time on their hands!
15:04	RSchulz	Every snoman I've seen has been naked.
15:04	RSchulz	Huh. Snoman glyph for Snobol programming...
15:04	Chouser	http://isitchristmas.com/
15:05	danlarkin	,4
15:05	RSchulz	Isn't it Christmas somewhere?
15:05	danlarkin	,(println \u2603)
15:05	dreish	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=is+it+tuesday
15:06	RSchulz	Hey! The font in my Konsole has a tiny little snowman glyph!
15:06	RSchulz	Though it could be someone giving me the finger. It's kind of hard to tell at that size.
15:07	dreish	?
15:07	dreish	Ever needed a tricolon? ? Now you have one.
15:08	hiredman	clojurebot: why no love?
15:08	dreish	Maybe that last snowman killed him.
15:08	danlarkin	did I broked it? :(
15:08	hiredman	damn it
15:10	hiredman	well, I can't fix it
15:10	hiredman	no access to the box it is running on at home
15:10	hiredman	I wonder what the hell broke it
15:11	danlarkin	was it ,4 ?
15:11	hiredman	oh
15:11	hiredman	hmmmmmm
15:11	hiredman	the sandbox thing has change considerably lately
15:11	hiredman	it may have been
15:12	dreish	How inadvisable does this sound: I want to throw a RetryEx from within a function I'll be passing to commute, because it's almost always a commute operation on a data structure that will be getting a lot of contention, but maybe 0.01% of the time it will need to retry.
15:12	hiredman	clojurebot: ping?
15:12	hiredman	uh
15:13	hiredman	dreish: messing with the stm's retry behaviour sounds pretty inadvisbale to me
15:13	dreish	But I _want_ to!
15:13	danlarkin	we won't stop you
15:13	dreish	Thanks.
15:14	dreish	Either that, or maybe there should be an additional operation on Refs, just like commute but the transaction retries if the function you pass to it returns nil.
15:15	hiredman	why not check for nil inside the function you pass?
15:15	hiredman	and just do it again in the fuction
15:16	dreish	I need to repeat the transaction because the value returned by the dosync would no longer be correct.
15:17	dreish	The scenario is I have a hash that caches part of a huge data set on disk -- too big for RAM. Various threads, calling a lookup function that optionally loads values in from disk, might add key/value pairs to the hash, and the value in each case is another Ref. I don't want my function returning a Ref that isn't the canonical value for a given key.
15:18	danlarkin	dreish: are you trying to beat the OS at paging?
15:18	hiredman	dreish: put a loop in the dosync to retry if it needs to
15:18	dreish	danlarkin: Not really. Paging doesn't give me STM semantics.
15:19	dreish	Unless you mean I should load the entire data set every time I start my program.
15:19	RSchulz	dreish: What sort of total data volume are you dealing with?
15:20	dreish	RSchulz: As much as possible.
15:20	RSchulz	More than a 32-bit JVM can accommodate?
15:20	Lau_of_DK	Does noone here have any idea why compile-ast wont compile with that macro used in it?
15:20	dreish	Hopefully.
15:21	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: because there's no defmulti for compile-ast?
15:21	dreish	The idea is an editable multi-user virtual reality world.
15:22	RSchulz	That doesn't sound like it will be scalable if the design is basaed on a single-system architecture...
15:22	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: no, its way up in ;; DEFINITIONS ========
15:23	RSchulz	Which is independent to the issue of large data-set caching.
15:23	dreish	Maybe.
15:23	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: its only when I use your macro 'where' modified into 'infixed' that it wont compile, if I use my own good ol' defn infixed, then it works fine
15:24	RSchulz	So you're implementing some sort of virtual-memory-like cache? Automatic eviction based on some sort of criteria (LRU, perhaps)?
15:24	dreish	RSchulz: Yes, and that's probably the worst part of my idea.
15:24	Chouser	'eval' doesn't have access to local variables
15:25	RSchulz	Not necessarily. Are you using weak hash maps or something of the sort?
15:25	Lau_of_DK	Then why does it work when I call it manually Chouser ?
15:26	dreish	No, but that looks like it might be a good idea. I was just going to use a PersistentHashMap and track the most recent read myself.
15:26	dreish	I hadn't yet figured out a way to do that that wouldn't be ridiculously slow.
15:27	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: you're passing the local 'ast' from 'compile-ast' to 'infixed', which then tries to use the name 'ast' in eval.
15:27	RSchulz	You should at least familiarize yourself with the Weak and Phantom (and there's one more, I think) Reference types. They're meant for this sort of thing.
15:27	Chouser	your stand-alone test doesn't refer to any local.
15:28	RSchulz	Package java.lang.ref
15:28	Lau_of_DK	Ok Chouser - ..... How do I bend this to my will ?
15:28	dreish	RSchulz: Thanks. I'll think about that.
15:28	RSchulz	Soft, Weak and Phantom, each with different retention and notification policies.
15:29	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: don't use eval. :-)
15:29	Lau_of_DK	Can you rephrase that to a variant of "use ..." ?
15:29	RSchulz	Using them in a way that interacts intelligently with Clojure's STM may require support in the Clojure data structures types, but that's just a vague hunch.
15:37	hiredman	woa
15:37	hiredman	java.lang.ref is pretty cool
16:00	RSchulz	hiredman: Is this the first you've seen the java.lan.ref classes?
16:04	hiredman	yes
17:01	Chousuke	hm
17:01	Chousuke	I've been doing some pretty drastic refactoring of clojurebot
17:01	Chousuke	and it still connects to teh internets.
17:01	dreish	It's gone. That does seem pretty drastic.
17:01	Chousuke	nah, that's hiredman's version
17:01	Chousuke	I have my own
17:01	dreish	Oh.
17:02	Chousuke	now my problem is to figure out why it does not respond to my queries
17:03	Chousuke	it outputs debugging stuff for commands I send to it, but it doesn't respond
17:16	Chousuke	I'm using (binding) a lot though; maybe there's something wrong with my logic and some variable stays unbound
17:16	Chousuke	oh well, I'll figure it out later
18:31	hiredman	so clojurebot did not nae crash, the computer running it did
18:35	hiredman	,4
18:38	Chousuke	hm
18:39	hiredman	,4
18:39	hiredman	grrr
18:40	Chousuke	hiredman: I spent some time today trying to refactor clojurebot but currently my version is in a state of non-workiness :)
18:40	hiredman	,(identity 4)
18:40	clojurebot	4
18:40	Chousuke	will see tomorrow if I can make my version work
18:40	hiredman	I moved the sandbox stuff into it's namespace
18:41	hiredman	own
18:41	Chousuke	oh. where is that?
18:41	Chousuke	I started from your gist from 2 days ago
18:41	hiredman	http://gist.github.com/39813
18:42	Chousuke	hmm, looks like should be easy to integrate into my version
18:42	Chousuke	that*
18:42	hiredman	(box ...) at the end there is what I am using
18:42	hiredman	you said you started a github project?
18:42	hiredman	maybe I should just fork yours
18:43	Chousuke	this is where I am at the moment http://github.com/Chousuke/clojurebot/tree/clojurebotv2-BROKEN
18:43	Chousuke	it's not working yet, so I kept master separate
18:45	Chousuke	a lot of that new structure is based on wishful thinking, really.
18:45	Chousuke	I'm hoping I can make it work :P
18:46	hiredman	does git actually track syslinks or can I just add a syslink and it will pick up the actual file?
18:47	Chousuke	I think symlinks should work.
18:47	Chousuke	er, I mean, I think git tracks them :P
18:47	hiredman	so they won't work
18:49	hiredman	clojurebot: where are you is <reply>http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/tree/master
18:49	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
18:51	hiredman	license wise, uh, MIT X11?
18:52	Chousuke	sounds fine I guess.
18:53	hiredman	http://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/graphs/languages <-- nice
18:53	Chousuke	heh
18:58	Chousuke	I merged your foos :P
19:02	Chousuke	Being somewhat of a perfectionist I prefer not exposing weird commit messages to the public. I develop on a local branch and when done cleanup in another branch that is then merged with master and pushed. :)
19:03	hiredman	<-- just starting with git
19:03	arbscht_	is '+' considered a numeric character, when naming symbols?
19:03	Chousuke	no
19:03	Chousuke	hiredman: it's pretty easy really
19:03	hiredman	seems zippy
19:03	hiredman	like some kind of italian car
19:03	Chousuke	say you start on master, and get a cool idea for a neat feature
19:04	arbscht_	Chousuke: was that 'no' in response to me?
19:04	Chousuke	yes
19:04	arbscht_	ok :)
19:04	Chousuke	hiredman: so you do "git branch development"
19:04	Chousuke	hack away
19:04	arbscht_	then '+5x should be a legal symbol name, right?
19:05	Chousuke	I think so
19:05	Chousuke	hiredman: then again, from the dev branch, "git branch cleanup"
19:05	Chousuke	hiredman: and after that, git rebase --interactive master
19:05	RSchulz	Actually, I think Clojure must do something like CL's "potential number" thing, because +5x doesn't read.
19:06	Chousuke	oh. hmm :/
19:06	RSchulz	user=> +5x
19:06	RSchulz	java.lang.NumberFormatException: Invalid number: +5x
19:07	Chousuke	hiredman: rebase -i is really scary: it allows you to edit commits in any way you want.
19:07	Chousuke	and as long as you edit only local commits, there is no danger of breaking anything.
19:07	hiredman	is there a way I can merge my clojurebot.clj with your 2205aba170852515641be694748d5d3ab4d2c21e
19:08	hiredman	(renaming globals to use **)
19:08	Chousuke	hm
19:08	Chousuke	didn't you get that when you forked?
19:09	Chousuke	or did you overwrite it?
19:10	hiredman	uh, yeah I guess I did
19:12	Chousuke	I think it'll be easier to just redo the changes by hand
19:12	Chousuke	"git diff HEAD 2205" in your branch shows there are many other changes too
19:13	Chousuke	it might be possible to pick just the correct chunks but...
19:13	Chousuke	too much work :D
19:13	hiredman	yeah
19:15	RSchulz	Perhaps git failed hiredman??
19:16	Chousuke	working with git's pretty fun
19:17	Chousuke	even with just clojurebot I have 5 local branches and 5 remote ones
19:20	Chousuke	it takes a while to "get" how commits, the index, and merging/rebasing works with git, but after it clicks, it's rather pleasant
19:22	hiredman	pepperoni and bacon pizza
19:25	RSchulz	hiredman: Was that directed at your TiVo??
19:26	hiredman	no, just bragging
19:26	RSchulz	I... see... ... No I don't.
19:26	hiredman	I have pepperoni and bacon pizza, do you?
19:27	RSchulz	I'm a vegetarian.
19:27	Chousuke	we need more branches fro clojurebot so that the network graph can look something like this: http://lwn.net/images/ns/kernel/gitk-octopus.png
19:27	RSchulz	I have pesto pizza. Yum!
19:27	hiredman	oh, sorry, I hope you get well soon :P
19:28	hiredman	I don't have flash so I can view the graph
19:28	Chousuke	it's not very interesting right now
19:28	RSchulz	Actually, I'm probably less likely to need convalescence!
19:29	RSchulz	What app is displayed in that "octopus" graphic?
19:29	Chousuke	you mean the GUI showing the graph? gitk
19:30	RSchulz	Yeah.
19:30	RSchulz	I need to move to newer Linux box. There isn't even a git port for this one.
19:30	Chousuke	what. how old is it? :P what distribution are you running?
19:30	Chousuke	it's a crappy GUI but it comes with git by default
19:30	RSchulz	It's just that I have it _so_ customized and tuned to my linking, I loathe having to upgrade.
19:31	RSchulz	SuSE Linux 10.0, here. I have a 10.3 box, too.
19:31	Chousuke	I suffered severe trauma with Redhat and Mandrake some years ago, so I'm nostly a debian/ubuntu guy
19:32	Chousuke	right now I'm using OS X though :P
19:32	RSchulz	I was a bit peeved to see that the latest Enclojure release only supports MacOS X, though I'm not even sure why it should matter.
19:32	RSchulz	I was more than a bit peeved when my iMac died...
19:32	Chousuke	I think I could bear using anything except RPM based distros or gentoo.
19:33	RSchulz	What's wrong with RPM? In openSUSE it's mostly buried, though I make some use of it directly even with YaST.
19:33	Chousuke	Probably nothing wrong with it nowadays
19:33	Chousuke	I just have trauma :P
19:34	hiredman	ugh
19:34	hiredman	yeah
19:34	hiredman	I haven't used rpm in over ten years, still makes me wince
19:35	RSchulz	Works for me.
19:35	Chousuke	for my gentoo dislike I have even less basis
19:35	Chousuke	since I've never actually used it
19:35	hiredman	you don't like to funroll your loops?
19:35	RSchulz	I really just want to _use_ my Linux box, not spend endless hours administering it. So far, SuSe / openSUSE has made that feasible.
19:35	Chousuke	but somehow all the things I hear about it have caused me to form a kind of "anti-caring" opinion of it.
19:36	Chousuke	meaning I don't care, nor do I want to :P
19:36	RSchulz	But... But! You ... You MUST care! Religion MATTERS!!
19:36	Chousuke	maybe only if you're a matterialist?
19:37	RSchulz	A whatist?
19:37	RSchulz	Never mind. It's immaterial.
19:37	Chousuke	sorry, I'm tired, can't resist the opportunity to make horrible puns :(
19:37	RSchulz	Puns are either horrible or irrelevant.
19:37	RSchulz	Your choice.
19:41	Chousuke	hiredman: still there?
19:41	hiredman	yessir
19:42	Chousuke	I noticed it seems to be possible to cherry-pick and re-apply my simplification changes
19:49	Chousuke	hm
19:49	Chousuke	maybe not
19:49	Chousuke	:(
19:57	dreish	hiredman: Are you using slicehost for clojurebot?
19:57	hiredman	no
19:57	dreish	Ah, I thought someone said that here earlier this week.
20:04	Chousuke	hiredman: hint: if you want to track my branches in your local branches: git remote add chousuke git://github.com/Chousuke/clojurebot.git; git remote update; git checkout chousuke/master -b local-tracking-branch
20:05	Chousuke	after that you can checkout to local-tracking-branch and you should be able to "git pull" master from my github repo to that branch
20:09	hiredman	my mind is blown
20:10	Chousuke	I'm already tracking you in hired-master :P
20:10	Chousuke	merged some of your changes too; it was just "git merge hired-master" in my own master branch
20:14	hiredman	interesting
20:16	Chousuke	you should sync with my repo too before you start making changes to clojurebot.clj
20:17	hiredman	I think I did
20:17	hiredman	just git merge yourbranch
20:17	hiredman	yes?
20:17	Chousuke	should work
20:17	Chousuke	you can always try it in a test branch first
20:18	hiredman	I mean I already did it
20:18	Chousuke	did you push that to github too?
20:19	hiredman	did now
20:20	Chousuke	hm, you really named it local-tracking-branch :)
20:20	hiredman	well, yeah I pasted what you said :P
20:21	hiredman	I added a LICENSE
20:21	Chousuke	instead of creating a local tracking branch you can also "git pull chousuke/master master"
20:22	hiredman	I see
20:24	Chousuke	or actually just git pull chousuke master
20:24	Chousuke	sometimes it gets confusing, but the man pages are your friend :)