#clojure – 2008-11-22

2008-11-22

00:00	danlei	i'm not sure, if i understand your question
00:00	danlei	something like this?
00:00	danlei	(macroexpand '(with-binding [x 5]
00:00	danlei	(print x)))
00:00	danlei	sorry
00:00	danlei	(defmacro with-binding [[var val] & body]
00:00	danlei	`(binding [~var ~val]
00:00	danlei	~@body))
00:00	danlei	(which would be rather useless, i guess)
00:03	arohner	sort of.
00:03	arohner	The list of symbols is in an array, and I'm having a hard time getting the symbols into the binding array without getting evaluated
00:04	arohner	lisppaste8:
00:04	arohner	lisppaste8: url
00:04	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
00:04	lisppaste8	arohner pasted "expectation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70871
00:05	arohner	I'm trying to write an expectation test framework
00:05	arohner	that works, but you'll notice it looks similar to the source of binding
00:06	danlei	hm
00:06	duck1123	clojurebot: git?
00:06	clojurebot	I don't understand.
00:08	duck1123	clojurebot: git is http://github.com/kevinoneill/clojure/tree/master
00:08	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
00:08	duck1123	clojurebot: git?
00:08	clojurebot	git is http://github.com/kevinoneill/clojure/tree/master
00:08	arohner	I would like to use ~@thread-bindings#, but I don't think I can do that because it's a gensym'd variable
00:09	duck1123	clojurebot: logs?
00:09	clojurebot	Huh?
00:09	duck1123	clojurebot: logs is http://clojure-log.n01se.net/
00:09	clojurebot	Ok.
00:10	duck1123	clojurebot: wiki?
00:10	clojurebot	Excuse me?
00:10	duck1123	clojurebot: wiki is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming
00:10	clojurebot	Ok.
00:13	duck1123	clojurebot: compojure?
00:13	clojurebot	Excuse me?
00:13	duck1123	clojurebot: compojure is http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/tree/master
00:13	clojurebot	Roger.
00:14	duck1123	clojurebot: ties?
00:14	clojurebot	I don't understand.
00:14	duck1123	clojurebot: ties is http://www.bitbucket.org/achimpassen/clojure-ties/wiki/Home
00:14	clojurebot	Ok.
00:15	duck1123	clojurebot: programming clojure is http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure
00:15	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
00:15	duck1123	clojurebot: programming clojure
00:15	clojurebot	programming clojure is http://www.pragprog.com/titles/shcloj/programming-clojure
00:17	duck1123	clojurebot: todo?
00:17	clojurebot	Huh?
00:17	duck1123	clojurebot: todo is http://richhickey.backpackit.com/pub/1597914
00:17	clojurebot	Ok.
00:19	duck1123	clojurebot: project euler is http://clojure-euler.wikispaces.com/
00:19	clojurebot	Ok.
00:19	duck1123	clojurebot: enclojure?
00:19	clojurebot	I don't understand.
00:20	Chouser	it'd be pleasant to have these all on a web page somewhere.
00:20	duck1123	clojurebot: enclojure is http://enclojure.org/
00:20	clojurebot	Ok.
00:20	hiredman	clojurebot: how much do you know?
00:20	duck1123	I figure these are all links that will be handy to have in the future
00:21	hiredman	I wonder if I roke him
00:21	hiredman	(doc defmethod)
00:21	clojurebot	Creates and installs a new method of multimethod associated with dispatch-value.
00:21	arohner	yeah, but it would be nice if we could also link to it from the group, or wiki, etc
00:21	Chouser	duck1123: I'm not disagreeing, I just think it'd be nice to be able to scan the whole list.
00:33	hiredman	clojurebot: how much do you know?
00:33	clojurebot	I know 17 things
00:41	technomancy	clojurebot: botsnack
00:41	clojurebot	botsnack is delicious. (nom nom nom)
00:42	technomancy	clojurebot: botsnack is <reply>thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
00:42	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
00:42	technomancy	clojurebot: botsnack
00:42	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
00:48	amagee	in clojure, how can i make a function foo, which calls bar, which calls foo?
00:49	hiredman	lisppaste8: url
00:49	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
00:51	lisppaste8	hiredman pasted "closure counter thing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70873
00:52	hiredman	that has a function c, that returns a function, that calls c
00:56	danlei	what's most idiomatic clojure for zipping? (zip '(a b c) '(1 2 3)) -> (a 1 b 2 c 3)
00:57	hiredman	(doc interleave)
00:57	clojurebot	Returns a lazy seq of the first item in each coll, then the second etc.
00:57	danlei	perfect
01:00	danlei	clojurebot: zipping is <reply>see interleave
01:00	clojurebot	Roger.
01:02	gnuvince_	danlei: that's not zipping
01:02	gnuvince_	danlei: zipping would return ((a 1) (b 2) (c 3))
01:03	danlei	hm
01:03	danlei	ok
01:03	danlei	has it a name?
01:03	danlei	. o O (interleaving) =)
01:04	danlei	clojurebot zipping is
01:04	danlei	clojurebot: zipping is
01:04	clojurebot	Huh?
01:04	danlei	hm
01:04	gnuvince_	(map vector [:a :b :c] [1 2 3])
01:04	hiredman	lose the is
01:04	danlei	how to delete something?
01:04	danlei	clojurebot: loose zipping
01:04	clojurebot	I don't understand.
01:04	hiredman	clojurebot: zipping is not what you think it is
01:04	clojurebot	Ok.
01:05	danlei	gnuvince_: thanks, interleaving was what i wanted
01:05	hiredman	clojurebot: zipping?
01:05	clojurebot	zipping is not what you think it is
01:17	Chouser	clojurebot: zipping is <reply>
01:17	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
01:17	Chouser	clojurebot: zipping?
01:17	danlei	clojurebot: asdf
01:17	clojurebot	Excuse me?
01:18	Chouser	clojurebot: zipping is <reply>try (map vector ...)
01:18	clojurebot	Ok.
01:18	Chouser	clojurebot: zipping?
01:18	clojurebot	try (map vector ...)
01:18	Chouser	heh, was afraid I'd killed him
01:18	danlei	=)
01:18	danlei	clojurebot: botsnack
01:18	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
01:45	rzezeski	I'm reading PCL right now, and in the CD database example it uses a "defvar" to define a global variable db and then uses "push" to add data to the var. The "push" function seems to mutate db. To imitate this in Clojure i naively did "(defn add-record [cd] (def db (cons cd db)))". I know this is bad, so what is a more idiomatic way?
01:49	hiredman	rzezeski: http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/16/pcl-clojure-chapter-3
01:50	hiredman	clojurebot: pcl -> clojure is http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/09/16/pcl-clojure
01:50	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
01:50	rzezeski	perfect! thank you sir!
01:53	hiredman	clojurebot: lisp is <reply>Lisp isn't a language, it's a building material.
01:53	clojurebot	Roger.
03:27	sgraham	can anyone suggest a short way to write (range \a \z)?
03:28	hiredman	uh
03:28	hiredman	that is pretty short to begin with
03:29	hiredman	wait
03:29	hiredman	I get it now
03:29	sgraham	but it doesn't work.. :) that's what i want to write, but range only works on Number
03:29	hiredman	(map char (range 97 123))
03:30	sgraham	hmm, not too bad. the 97/123 is a bit random looking, but..
03:30	sgraham	thanks!
03:31	hiredman	(map char (range (int a) (inc (int z))))
03:32	hiredman	uh
03:32	hiredman	\a and \z of course
03:32	sgraham	yup, gotcha, thanks
04:04	Lau_of_DK	Top of the morning gents
05:01	whotheheckami	hi Lau
05:41	ole2	Hello
05:41	ole2	I get an exception when i start slime: core.clj:88: Unable to resolve symbol: *e in this context
05:42	ole2	the repl seems to work , but emacs keeps polling
05:42	ole2	Had someone the same problem?
06:57	Lau_of_DK	Morning rhickey. Just wondering. What was your primary motivation for choosing Subversion over Git ?
07:00	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: I didn't choose subversion as much as SourceForge, and, git wasn't available there nor popular when I started Clojure. Subversion still leads in IDE integration
07:00	Lau_of_DK	Ok, thanks
07:06	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: I guess on the upside, using Magit I can still handle the entire SVN straight from Emacs, using it as Git locally, and automatically converting back to SVN if I need to commit anything
07:11	Chousuke	heh
07:23	Lau_of_DK	You laught infidel? :)
07:23	Lau_of_DK	s/laught/laugh
07:30	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: nah, git is my favourite SVN client too
07:35	Lau_of_DK	hehe, nice way to put it! :)
07:51	fanda	hello all!
07:51	Lau_of_DK	Hey fanda ! :)
07:52	fanda	I am testing Clojure predicates now
07:52	fanda	and have question about fn?
07:52	fanda	user=> (fn? (fn [x] (* 2 x)))
07:52	fanda	true
07:53	fanda	thing is, fn? also returns true for vector, map, set, symbol and keyword
07:53	fanda	(fn? {:a 1}) => true
07:53	fanda	(fn? #{1 2}) => true
07:53	fanda	(fn? 'abc) => true
07:53	fanda	(fn? [1 2]) => true
07:53	fanda	(fn? :a) => true
07:53	danlei	({:a 1] :a)
07:53	Lau_of_DK	clojure/fn?
07:53	Lau_of_DK	([x])
07:53	Lau_of_DK	Returns true if x implements IFn. Note that many data structures
07:53	Lau_of_DK	(e.g. sets and maps) implement IFn
07:54	Lau_of_DK
07:54	danlei	s/]/}
07:54	fanda	:-)
07:55	danlei	Lau_of_DK: botsnack
07:55	Lau_of_DK	danlei: nom nom nom
07:55	danlei	:)
07:55	fanda	ok then - vector, map, set, keyword is understandable then
07:56	fanda	what about symbol?
07:57	Lau_of_DK	What about it fanda ?
07:58	fanda	it is strange to me that it also implements IFn
07:58	Lau_of_DK	Yes it does seem a bit strange to me also
07:58	fanda	for example map-keyword:
07:58	fanda	(:b {:a 1 :b 2}) => 2
07:58	fanda	({:a 1 :b 2} :b) => 2
08:00	fanda	map-integer:
08:00	fanda	(1 {1 :a 2 :b}) => java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
08:00	fanda	({1 :a 2 :b} 1) => :a
08:01	fanda	map-symbol:
08:01	fanda	('a {'a 1 'b 2}) => 1
08:01	fanda	({'a 1 'b 2} 'a) => 1
08:01	fanda	so I guess this is it :-)
08:01	Lau_of_DK	it?
08:02	fanda	maps are functions of their keys... and backwards if key is keyword or symbol, they have fn to retrieve a value from a map
08:02	fanda	(my guess)
08:03	fanda	any objections to this theory?
08:03	fanda	:-)
08:04	Lau_of_DK	No it sounds fantastic
08:09	Chousuke	don't forget sets
08:11	fanda	yes, yes
08:11	fanda	ok, thanks for help
08:15	Lau_of_DK	(send-off agent #'behave))
08:15	Lau_of_DK
08:15	Lau_of_DK	This seems to me like a change from the original behave that Rich included in his ants.clj
08:15	Lau_of_DK	Can someone explain the syntax #'behave in this fn ?
08:16	danlei	it's a reader macro for var
08:18	Lau_of_DK	danlei, thx
08:36	vdrab	Hi all. I'm learning about clojure and I found the clojure version of Norvig's spelling corrector quite impressive. Benchmarking it seems a bit disappointing though... maybe I'm doing something wrong?
08:37	vdrab	running the code as found on the clojure wiki took 5sec. to execute, compared to python's 1sec.
08:38	vdrab	I thought that was just the JVM startup, but when I increased the text file (big.txt) to three times that size, python still does it in 3 seconds while clojure dies with out of memory errors after 55 secs.
08:39	rhickey	vdrab: are you benchmarking the load time or the lookup time? The only time that matters is the lookup time, as any online spell corrector wouldn't load the dictionary each lookup
08:39	vdrab	rhickey, I just took the code as is: create the word dictionary and do just one lookup ("speling")
08:40	vdrab	I know that's not how you would run a real spelling corrector, but I thought it was a fair benchmark
08:41	vdrab	maybe some settings I used were not optimal
08:41	vdrab	I used the java -server option
08:42	vdrab	did this on a macbook pro with 4Gb memory, btw
08:43	rhickey	vdrab: You could just be benchmarking slurp
08:43	vdrab	that's possible
08:43	vdrab	but the text file I used is only 19Mb... would that be problematic for slurp?
08:43	rhickey	Norvig has some test data I think, you could use that to benchmark the correctors on, well, correcting
08:44	rhickey	For memory, use Java's -Xmx option
08:45	vdrab	oh, ok.
08:45	Chousuke	slurp isn't that smart. it just produces one huge string, doesn't it?
08:47	Lau_of_DK	I believe it does
08:47	Chousuke	I find that using a lot of laziness can overload the heap too.
08:47	Chousuke	with large data at least.
08:47	Lau_of_DK	Yea, and it can cause great slowdowns as well
08:48	vdrab	just tried with -Xmx512m... it now runs in about 18.8 secs
08:48	vdrab	which is consistent with 5secs runtime for the original big.txt file
08:49	Lau_of_DK	vdrab: whats the Python time on the same file ?
08:49	Lau_of_DK	And can you exclude boot times from your bench ?
08:49	Chousuke	maybe use duck streams or something instead of slurp?
08:50	rhickey	vdrab: you still are effectively timing the startup of a program. No one would run that script in order to spell correct "speling"
08:50	vdrab	1sec for the original (load the data + do one lookup), 3 secs for three times bigger data file (simply "cat big.txt big.txt big.txt > a")
08:51	rhickey	If Python can load the fie 5x as fast, but spell corrects 5x as slow, well...
08:51	vdrab	rhickey: I understand that. I realize the main purpose of that program was to demonstrate clojure's expressiveness... I just wanted to see how it handled larger data...
08:52	Lau_of_DK	I know that CGrande has some succes retrieving stats from a 40GB Apache Log with Clojure, that ran in 16 - 17 minutes as I recall
08:52	Lau_of_DK	I think you can review the code on clj-me.blogspot.com
08:52	vdrab	Lau_of_DK: thanks, I'll have a peek
08:53	rhickey	vdrab: I don't think you could conclude much of anything from that script, since the lookup code is hardly exercised at all
08:54	vdrab	that's true. Like I said, this was in no way meant to be a knock on clojure...
08:55	Lau_of_DK	vdrab: I dont think anybody took it like that :)
08:55	rhickey	right, just be wary of microbenchmarks
08:55	vdrab	:) point taken.
08:56	rhickey	at least with Clojure you have access to very good Java profiling tools when it matters for a real program
08:57	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: now you stuck your hand in it :) Where does one go to get started with the Java Profilers?
08:57	Chousuke	the spelling corrector first reads the file into a single string, then lowercases that string :P
08:57	Chousuke	I'm pretty sure there's something to be optimised. :)
08:57	Lau_of_DK	haha
08:58	vdrab	Chousuke: but that's exactly what the python code does too
08:59	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: I use YourKit: http://www.yourkit.com/, and there's: http://java-source.net/open-source/profilers
08:59	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: cool, thanks
09:01	Lau_of_DK	I think when I spawned my REPL this morning, I actually made it ready for JSwat, does anyone have a Quick How-To, so I can hook it up ?
09:02	vdrab	in the spelling corrector, the dictionary map is built in one fell swoop with reduce... If one had to build it up gradually as the program runs, what would be the idiomatic way to do that? would each assoc be wrapped in a dosync? I'm still trying to wrap my head around the immutability idea.
09:05	Chousuke	vdrab: you would simply return the new dictionary and forget the old one.
09:05	Chousuke	you wouldn't change the old dictionary, you'd just stop using.
09:05	Chousuke	it
09:05	vdrab	Chousuke: and bind the new dictionary to the same name as the old one?
09:06	vdrab	or thread it through the program with each function call?
09:06	Chousuke	the latter I suppose.
09:06	Chousuke	redef'ing names is not idiomatic
09:06	rhickey	vdrab: no, keep the dictionary in a ref and (dosync (alter dict assoc k v)) when you need to update it
09:07	vdrab	rhickey: thanks, that's what I thought... sending global state throughout your program with each function call would get old really fast.
09:08	Chousuke	vdrab: you could also structure your program so that each function returns the new state
09:09	danlei	is there a way to list the methods of java classes/objects at the repl? (something like mop:specializer-direct-methods)
09:09	Chousuke	I think someone on the group used java reflection to do that.
09:09	vdrab	Chousuke: maybe for small scripts like the spelling corrector thing... I'd dread to have to do that for large programs though...
09:10	Chousuke	vdrab: well, yeah
09:10	Chousuke	vdrab: refs to the rescue :)
09:10	vdrab	so it seems :)
09:10	Chousuke	or agents.
09:10	blackdog_	danlei, http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/b26410a2a52e62b0/96ed91f823305f02?lnk=gst&q=user.clj#96ed91f823305f02
09:11	blackdog_	first post from chouser has what you want i think
09:11	danlei	blackdog_: thank you
09:12	blackdog_	and bill clementson has a good post on his blog about integrating that and javadoc in emacs
09:13	danlei	blackdog_: wow, great
09:13	danlei	blackdog_: thanks a lot
09:13	Lau_of_DK	speaking of. Did you guys try out cgrand's Javadoc ?
09:14	blackdog_	danlei, http://bc.tech.coop/blog/
09:17	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888
09:17	rhickey	In JSwat, say new session
09:17	rhickey	set up clojure.jar in the jars section, src/clj in the sources section
09:18	rhickey	in tools, options, general section set stepping excludes clojure.lang.*
09:18	rhickey	then session, attach, localhost, port 8888
09:19	rhickey	open src/clj/clojure/core.clj and set a breakpoint in, say, merge-with
09:19	rhickey	then in your repl call merge-with, you should break in JSwat, and be able to step
09:19	Lau_of_DK	Fantastic
09:19	Lau_of_DK	Thanks alot rhickey
09:20	rhickey	variables in the lower right will show you let locals
09:20	rhickey	and args
09:21	rhickey	step over/into will nav you around and between .clj files
09:21	rhickey	My only wish was that the locals window had smart display of collections
09:22	rhickey	e.g. displaying their contents rather than the implementation by default
09:22	rhickey	it works really well in general, though
09:25	Lau_of_DK	It looks cool, I think this might eleminate many of my complaints about the stack trace messages
09:28	Lau_of_DK	I cant help but wonder if JSwat is implemented in Emacs somewhere
09:54	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Im getting a "Missing local variable information", any idea why ?
09:56	blenket	how do i do to add new javalibs so i can import them in clojure?
09:57	blenket	and how do i import just sourcefiles?
09:57	Lau_of_DK	Which then changed to "Current thread not set"
09:57	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: look at the call stack on the left, you're probably in some JDK code - you can exclude that for stepping too
09:58	blackdog_	blenket, the easiest way is to stick all the jars you want in a single dir and access it w -Djava.ext.dirs=$JARS
09:58	blackdog_	where $JARS is you dir
09:58	blackdog_	that's in your java command line
10:00	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Sorry didnt mean to be rude, but it seems my entire system shutdown when I tried to rerun my code
10:29	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: the callstack is empty. I know I have a function thats silently failing, why isnt JSwat notifying me?
10:36	Lau_of_DK	Also, I tried to set a breakpoint in hash-map in boot.clj, and it doesnt break when I run it
10:47	blenket	blackdog: uh ok and on windows?
10:47	blackdog_	no idea
10:47	blenket	where would i put the: w -Djava.ext.dirs=$JARS
10:47	Lau_of_DK	Im not sure JSwat reads .clj files as source ?
10:47	blackdog_	oh yes that should work
10:47	blenket	uh java command line?
10:47	blackdog_	java -Djava.ext.dirs=/my/jar/dir ....
10:48	blenket	blackdog_ : and thats sets the path forever?
10:48	blackdog_	yes, you can add new jars and it'll pick them up on restart
10:49	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: yes it does, if you configure your source root in Sessions/Settings/Sources, and have your cljs in proper classpath-conforming directories
10:49	blenket	and it doesnt mess with my normal jaba-path?
10:49	blackdog_	correct
10:49	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: All the clojure source is /src/clj and so on, but my own file is just /lau/projects/file.clj
10:50	Lau_of_DK	Thats a no go I take it?
10:50	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: no Java tooling is going to work without classpath-conformant stuff
10:51	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: good to know. So my own structure for all my little programs should be ~/projects/stress-test/src/clj/main.clj
10:51	Lau_of_DK	As an example ?
10:52	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: it has nothing to do with src/clj and everything to do with my.namespace.lib being in my/namespace/lib.clj, somewhere in the classpath and in the path you give as sources
10:53	danlei	one easy way to get a class' method name seems to be: (map #(:name (bean %)) (.getMethods (class (String.))))
10:53	danlei	why can't i do (.getMethods String), even if (class? String) -> true
10:54	rhickey	danlei: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/8fc6f0e9a5800e4b
10:54	danlei	rhickey: thanks
10:57	duck1123	clojurebot: jswat?
10:57	clojurebot	Huh?
10:57	duck1123	clojurebot: jswat is <reply>For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888
10:57	clojurebot	Roger.
10:57	duck1123	clojurebot: jswat?
10:57	clojurebot	For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888
10:59	blenket	java -Djava.ext.dirs=C:/javaprogs/
10:59	blenket	but that doesnt work
10:59	blackdog_	i think on windows it's \
10:59	blenket	nah
11:00	blenket	unless java is epcial
11:00	blackdog_	i have no idea
11:00	blackdog_	yes it's \ and ; inbetween
11:01	blenket	how?
11:01	blackdog_	java -Djava.ext.dirs=..\Libs -cp ..\Src\Utils;..\Src\Accounts clojure.lang.Repl %1
11:03	blenket	uh ok i dot know what to put in the dirs and all
11:13	blenket	come on wtf how hard can it be to put up a simple explanaation on the clojrue homepage on how to use java libs on windows?
11:14	Chousuke	isn't there something on the wiki
11:14	Chousuke	if there isn't, make an edit :P
11:15	Chousuke	It seems most people using clojure right now are not using windows :/
11:15	rhickey	blenket: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-classpath-windows/
11:16	rhickey	one of a million articles you can find by googling: java classpath windows
11:18	blenket	The classpath is one of the most complex and infuriating parts of the Java� platform, but mastering it is essential to becoming a professional Java programmer. In this article, Elliotte Rusty Harold lays out the intricacies of the classpath and sourcepath and shows you how to master them on Windows. If you use UNIX or Mac OS X, see the companion article.
11:19	blenket	seriously, cant we just delete JAVA from history?
11:19	blenket	it is just a f----in classpath
11:21	Chousuke	do you have a point here?
11:21	Chousuke	yes, the java classpath system is complex. it's also very flexible.
11:21	danlei	dem erfolg hat der herrgott den schweiss vorangestellt ;)
11:22	danlei	roughly: first sweat, then enjoy
11:24	rhickey	danlei: google translate said: the success God has preceded the weld
11:25	danlei	rhickey: well, if i had to translate it word-by-word: god preceded success with sweat, so ... yes
11:26	danlei	weld?
11:27	blenket	yeah i but german bueraucrats get a boner out of JAVA
11:27	danlei	ah .. schweissen = welding, schweiss = sweat
11:27	danlei	=)
11:28	rhickey	blenket: I'm sorry you are frustrated, but there are a lot of help resources available
11:28	danlei	well, we're as much all buereaucrats, as americans are all cowboys, i guess :) and besides, i've never done anything with java, before i heard about clojure. (a few days ago)
11:28	danlei	=)
11:30	rhickey	let's try to stay productive and constructive, folks
11:30	danlei	i had toubles with the classpath too, i made it run by first getting a minimal setup to work (basically just the clojure-jar-file via -cp, then improved upon that
11:33	blenket	i have clojure working
11:33	blenket	and i can use (Math/pow 5 3)
11:33	blenket	for example
11:33	blenket	but if i download a new lib, lets say ImageJ or JAI, where to put it and how to run i dont get.
11:34	blenket	if i want to use JAVA-libs, should they be compiled or should I use the sourcefiles?
11:34	blenket	ie, .java files or .jar files?
11:34	duck1123	jar files
11:34	danlei	well, under linux you can add to a path by adding : in between, if you find out that char under win (";"?), you can then add the path to the jar file to the path you pass via -cp
11:34	Chousuke	blenket: you can put the jar file anywhere. clojure will find it if you add it to your classpath
11:34	duck1123	you could use .classfiles, but that just gets messy
11:35	duck1123	I think it's ; under win
11:35	Chousuke	ie. java -cp clojure.jar;path/to/mylib.jar;other.jar clojure.lang.Repl
11:35	Chousuke	I think there are some shortcuts so you can just specify "every jar from this directory" or something but I don't know them.
11:35	blenket	and why isnt there a dir in c:/Program Files/java/ where i cna just stick them and they work?
11:35	danlei	btw, iirc options start with / under win, but i'm not really sure about that
11:35	danlei	so maybe its /cp
11:35	Chousuke	blenket: you can make one.
11:36	danlei	*it's
11:36	duck1123	there are plenty of scripts that'll add all jars in a folder to your classpath then run clojure
11:36	blenket	can i add stuff do my classpath in .emacs?
11:36	blenket	where i have the path to the REPL?
11:36	duck1123	yes
11:36	Chousuke	blenket: yeah you can
11:37	duck1123	look at: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70611 for an example
11:37	Chousuke	I have this (in (custom-set-variables ...) ): '(swank-clojure-extra-classpaths (when (file-directory-p "~/opt/classpath") (directory-files "~/opt/classpath" t ".jar$")))
11:39	Chousuke	you should be able to use something similar
11:39	danlei	if nothing works, you could still experiment with add-classpath from the repl
11:40	duck1123	the script that compojure uses to load the repl is also pretty nifty
11:40	duck1123	clojurebot: compojure?
11:40	clojurebot	compojure is http://github.com/weavejester/compojure/tree/master
11:44	lisppaste8	blentek pasted "clasppath" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70885
11:45	blenket	so ther ei can add:
11:45	blenket	(list (some-path))
11:45	blenket	?
11:46	Chousuke	Consider using slime
11:46	Chousuke	it's much nicer.
11:46	duck1123	blenket: one note, I highly suggest you get the latest release from svn
11:46	blenket	and how do i convert a .java-file to .jar?
11:47	Chousuke	blenket: a .jar file contains a directory hierarchy of compiled java classes
11:47	blenket	urk
11:47	Chousuke	usually, you don't need to do anything for libraries
11:47	danlei	blenket: did you try (add-classpath "path/to/jar"), just to get it up and running? (it's not the right thing, but for a start ...)
11:47	Chousuke	they come with a jar
11:48	Chousuke	or at least an ant build script that make a jar for you
11:48	blenket	but if i write ,y own Java-class and want to use it for clojure?
11:48	Chousuke	just add the dir it is in to your classpath
11:48	duck1123	most downloaded javalibrarys will build the jar file you as part of their ant build process
11:48	Chousuke	note that it must be compiled.
11:48	Chousuke	and remember that java projects must honor a certain directory structure
11:54	blackdog_away	rhickey, I think is deprecating add-classpath
11:54	rhickey	add-classpath is only for repl
11:55	danlei	i just mentioned it to get him up and running, then he could've calmed down and do it right
11:56	danlei	(and those classpaths really /are/ confusing, if you're not used to them / read up on them)
11:58	rhickey	I think -Djava.ext.dirs=/my/jar/dir is the simplest advice
11:58	askentask	"C:/Progra~1/ImageJ/ij.jar"
11:58	rhickey	get a lib, stick in .my/jar/dir
11:59	askentask	user=> (add-classpath "C:/Progra~1/ImageJ/ij.jar")
11:59	askentask	java.net.MalformedURLException: unknown protocol: c
11:59	askentask	i tried to add it to .emacs
11:59	askentask	didnt work
11:59	danlei	try file:///
11:59	askentask	where?
11:59	danlei	repl
11:59	askentask	yes but
12:00	askentask	user=> (add-classpath "file:///C:/Progra~1/ImageJ/ij.jar")
12:00	askentask	?
12:00	askentask	nil
12:00	askentask	user=> (add-classpath "file:///C:/Progra~1/ImageJ/ij.jar")
12:00	askentask	nil
12:00	askentask	user=>
12:00	askentask	is that good?
12:01	duck1123	add-classpath always returns nil
12:01	duck1123	it's kinda confusing in that respect
12:01	danlei	i'm not on windows, but nil is ok
12:03	askentask	and then?
12:03	askentask	how do i use it?
12:03	danlei	well, that should be it
12:03	askentask	it retusn nil for a file that doesnt exist too
12:03	danlei	just import whatever jou have in that jar
12:03	askentask	so i have no idea if it worked
12:03	danlei	*you
12:04	askentask	should i really call it like that?
12:04	askentask	(add-classpath "file:///C:/Progra~1/ImageJ/ij.ja")(add-classpath "file:///C:/Progra~1/ImageJ/ij.ja")
12:04	askentask	oops 2 times
12:04	danlei	i'm on linux and did:
12:04	duck1123	if you don't get class not found errors, it worked :)
12:04	danlei	(add-classpath "file://home/danlei/coding/project/")
12:04	danlei
12:04	askentask	so 2 or 3 / ?
12:04	danlei	if it's a jar, you append it to the path .../.../blah.jar
12:04	danlei	not sure
12:04	danlei	two for me under linux
12:05	danlei	give it a try
12:06	danlei	quick google showed: file:///c:/.../...
12:13	fanda	hello! does anybody want to try real-time multi-user text editing? :-)
12:14	fanda	[software is completely free for non-commercial use]
12:14	fanda	it is called MoonEdit
12:14	fanda	http://moonedit.com/indexen.htm
12:15	fanda	see the movie:
12:15	fanda	http://moonedit.com/meditor.mov
12:15	fanda	we could use it just for fun...
12:16	fanda	it works under Windows, Linux and FreeBSD
12:20	fanda	download your client from here:
12:20	fanda	http://moonedit.com/down.htm
12:20	fanda	install/run and File - Join - Join File...
12:21	fanda	* File name = "hello_world.txt"
12:21	fanda	* Remove history = Yes
12:21	fanda	JOIN
12:22	jaan	fanda: http://etherpad.com/
12:25	fanda	looks very promising, jaan!
12:25	fanda	they are full now, but I will surely come back :-)
12:25	fanda	http://etherpad.com/ep/beta-signup
12:25	Chouser	fanda: written in Clojure?
12:26	rhickey	Chouser: my question exactly
12:26	Chouser	or maybe has Clojure syntax highlight and indent support?
12:26	fanda	Chouser: no no, I wish it could be - it would actually be one of the applications, I would try - if I knew more about networks and Java libraries
12:28	fanda	I don't think there is any syntax highlighting
12:31	jaan	fanda: there is also Gobby, which is also cross platform and it seems to be in active development. also seems to have syntax highlighting http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/
12:37	fanda	thanks, jaan
12:39	fanda	Gobby is covered under the GPL (General Public License). Can I use it to edit CPL code???
12:40	fanda	I mean - products which I create with GPL should be GPL, right?
12:41	fanda	(sorry for little offtopic discussion)
12:41	fanda	I would like to somehow synchronize source code editing efforts and sometimes do this even real-time :-)
12:46	fanda	anybody willing to try MoonEdit or Gobby?
12:46	fanda	I have MoonEdit running with open hello_world.txt file :-)
12:57	Chouser	fanda: I'm pretty sure that in general you can use GPL projects to create non-GPL code, you just can't change GPL projects by adding non-GPL code and then distributing the results.
13:00	fanda	Chouser: Thanks for explanation.
13:00	jaan	i have a question about zip-filter.xml. all the examples seem to retrun value, is it possible for it to return somekind of reference to the element, just like xpath does? I hope i didnt ask anything extremely stupid :)
13:09	Chouser	jaan: no, it's a good question.
13:10	Chouser	all the examples use 'text' or (attr ...) to get a plain-text result
13:12	Chouser	if you don't use one of those, you'll get a list of zip nodes, each of which encapsulates the whole document tree while pointing a particular element
13:12	Chouser	from a zip node you can use 'zip/node' to get the XML element itself, of you can use any of the other zip functions to make "change", navigate to elsewhere in the document tree, or whatever.
13:17	jaan	aaaa. ok. click. now it fits together in my head, thanks!
13:17	Chouser	oh, great.
13:17	jaan	while at it, i
13:17	jaan	err
13:19	jaan	i found this line in the begging of the xml.clj file "(def xml->)" is this something like forward declaration?
13:19	Chouser	jaan: exactly
13:21	rhickey	there is now declare for that, to make it clearer
13:22	Chouser	rhickey: you'd prefer declare even for a single item?
13:22	rhickey	yes please
13:23	rhickey	declare says - I'm going to def this for real later
13:23	rhickey	(def x) says, I'm going to bind this at some point, but leave the root unbound
13:24	Chouser	ok
13:24	larrytheliquid	the :arglists format uses a trailing ? for optional arguments (ie: this? orthis?) , is there convention to specify OR logic? (ie: this? orthis? ;; but at least one)
13:28	rhickey	larrytheliquid: nothing special for that, no
13:58	Lau_of_DK	Good evening fellow Lisperz
13:59	Lau_of_DK	javaQuestion: I need JSwat to understand where my source is. Im told that for it to do so, I must follow the Java naming convention. Normally, I would place my file in /home/lau/projects/file1.clj. Assuming its a single-file program. Am I correct in assuming that for JSwat to understand my structure, I now need to put everything in /home/lau/projects/lbj/core/program1/src/clj/file1.clj, assuming the namespace is lbj.core.program1 ?
14:02	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: no, src/clj was an example before - what matters is that the dir structure correspond to the namespace: i.we. /lbj/core/program1.clj is in some dir that is on the classpath, and that same dir is set in JSwat as a source dir
14:02	Lau_of_DK	Oh I see
14:02	Lau_of_DK	Thanks, I'll try that out
14:03	rhickey	put it here: /home/lau/projects/lbj/core/program1/file1.clj
14:03	rhickey	set this as a source dir: /home/lau/projects/, and on the classpath
14:03	Lau_of_DK	Alright
14:13	Lau_of_DK	So, Ive set it up like above. ~/projects/lbj/core/langdon/langdon.clj, Ive added ~/projects to the classpath, and as a sourcepath in JSwat. This didnt give anything. I tried started the file with (ns lbj.core.langdon) and it didnt change anything. I tried adding a breaker in both langdon.clj and in boot.clj, neither of which got caught in JSwat. What can I be doing wrong ?
14:14	Lau_of_DK	(note: If I pause from JSwat, the REPL pauses, so its attached correctly)
14:14	rhickey	boot.clj?
14:15	rhickey	what's that?
14:15	Lau_of_DK	Its actually the one you wrote in /src/clj/
14:15	rhickey	core.clj?
14:16	Lau_of_DK	No, I havent updated since those "Interim update, dont use" started
14:16	Lau_of_DK	Im (really) hoping thats not related to this issue?
14:16	rhickey	all advice I've given you is for currrent
14:16	Lau_of_DK	Did you just announce that the latest release wouldnt include .clj files and only compiled ones?
14:16	rhickey	JSwat did work before, but the paths are different
14:17	rhickey	also avoid ~ in Java
14:17	Lau_of_DK	I use the full path, just for ease of typin
14:17	Lau_of_DK	g
14:17	duck1123_	has anyone tried using jdee to debug clojure projects?
14:25	danlarkin	clojurebot: where are you?
14:25	clojurebot	http://gist.github.com/27733
14:28	duck1123_	why is that on gist and not an actual project?
14:31	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: in r1111 you change (method) to (.method), whats gained ? And does this change (.method class) like (.pow (bigint 4) 2)?
14:32	danlarkin	duck1123: ask hiredman :)
14:35	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: that's only for todo
14:35	Chousuke	er
14:35	Chousuke	doto* :P
14:36	Lau_of_DK	phew
14:36	Chousuke	Lau_of_DK: and requiring the . for methods allows you to use clojure fns in doto as well.
14:36	Lau_of_DK	updates are scary
14:39	danlarkin	clojurebot: clojurebot?
14:39	clojurebot	clojurebot is wacky!
14:43	duck1123	clojurebot: clojurebot is self referential
14:43	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
14:51	Lau_of_DK	Is there a command within Clojure which will give me the revision #?
14:51	Chousuke	no.
14:52	Lau_of_DK	I knew it
14:52	Lau_of_DK	The new SVN broke my REPL
14:52	Lau_of_DK	Thats why you should never update!
14:54	Lau_of_DK	Why does swank throw java.lang.Expcetion: No such namespace: clojure, no such namespace: swank
14:55	Lau_of_DK	Or more to the point, how do I fix it ?
14:58	Chousuke	upgrade your swank
14:58	Chousuke	upgrade everything :P
15:03	danlarkin	upgrade it all!!
15:15	arohner	rhickey: last weekend I had a macro question, and you mentioned something about how fns could not be serialized in a macro closure. Can you explain that a little more?
15:15	Lau_of_DK	Ok, its working
15:15	Lau_of_DK	:)
15:16	Lau_of_DK	Typical american update system: UPDATE EVERYTHING FOR THE PRICE OF 1, FREE STEAKS INCL.
15:17	danlarkin	:)
15:20	Lau_of_DK	Yes, this new updates definately mangles my classpath in some way, like before I had /lbj/core/utils/util.clj, which imported with (use 'lbj.core.utils), now I have to move utils.clj up one dir
15:21	rzezeski	Someone help me understand something...
15:21	rzezeski	this works... (map (fn [ms] [(:name ms) (:age ms)]) '({:name "ryan" :age 25} {:name "bob" :age 30}))
15:21	rzezeski	this doesn't... (map #([(:name %) (:age %)]) '({:name "ryan" :age 25} {:name "bob" :age 30}))
15:22	arohner	#( includes an extra paren
15:23	arohner	so (fn [x] (foo x)) => #(foo x)
15:23	arohner	sorry, => #(foo %)
15:23	arohner	so when you write #([stuff]), => ([stuff])
15:24	arohner	that wasn't as clear as I'd like
15:24	rzezeski	sorry, but I still don't see my extra paren
15:25	arohner	ok, let's build up the example
15:25	arohner	['a 'b] is an array literal
15:25	rzezeski	ok
15:25	arohner	arrays can be functions of their arguments
15:25	arohner	(['a 'b] 0)
15:25	arohner	=> a
15:26	rhickey	rzezeski: from:http://clojure.org/reader #(...) => (fn [args] (...))
15:26	rhickey	your ... is a vector
15:26	arohner	but (['a 'b]) does not work, because you didn't tell it what index to retreive
15:27	arohner	(fn [x] (foo x)) => #(foo %)
15:27	arohner	#(['a 'b]) => (['a 'b])
15:29	arohner	nm, I'm wrong
15:29	rzezeski	yea I'm not following
15:29	rzezeski	how bout I state what I'm trying to accomplish
15:29	rhickey	#(...) => (fn [args] (...))
15:29	rhickey	substitute for ... in both forms above
15:30	arohner	wait, I was right
15:30	arohner	I only thought I was wrong :-)
15:30	rhickey	not exactly right
15:31	rhickey	#([%1 %2]) => (fn [x1 x2] ([x1 x2]))
15:31	rzezeski	I want to take a list/seq of maps, and create a sequence of vectors containing the values, but I want the values to be in a certain order (hope that makes sense)
15:33	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: Last try. Ive updated everything. Ive moved the file in /home/lau/projects/lbj/core/langdon.clj. Ive added clojure.jar to the classes, and src/projects to the sources. Ive attached the process. Once it attached it shows alot of 'dynamic' classes in the left hand side, and thats basically it. I can open up my langdon.clj and set breakpoints, but they never break. Anything missing from that description ?
15:33	rzezeski	rhickey: I feel like I understand #(...) => (fn [args] (...)) If you look at my two examples, didn't I substitute everything correctly? Could someone correct my actual example to show me what I'm doing wrong
15:33	rhickey	#(vector (:name %) (:age %))
15:34	rhickey	#([(:name %) (:age %)]) is not the same thing
15:34	rzezeski	this works like a charm ... (map #(vector (:name %) (:age %)) '({:name "ryan" :age 25} {:name "bob" :age 30}))
15:35	rzezeski	rhickey, ok can you explain to me why that isn't the same thing? or did you guys already do that? :)
15:35	arohner	#() includes a function call
15:35	rhickey	#([%1 %2]) => (fn [x1 x2] ([x1 x2])) note how the vector is in parens, i.e. it is called
15:36	rhickey	#(...) => (fn [args] (...)), the ... ends up in a parens
15:36	Lau_of_DK	rhickey: hold your horse
15:36	Lau_of_DK	I called my main func at the bottom of langdon.clj and used load-file from the repl, this did the trick. But can you explain why ?
15:38	rhickey	Lau_of_DK: no
15:38	rzezeski	rhickey, I think I finally get it. It's going to end up treating the vector as a function?
15:39	rhickey	rzezeski: right
15:39	rhickey	#() encloses a call, not a body
15:40	rhickey	makes that call the body of a fn
15:41	rzezeski	got it, so if I really didn't want to use "vector" I could also do "(map #(identity [(:name %) (:age %)]) '({:name "ryan" :age 25} {:name "bob" :age 30}))" but that doesn't really buy me anything
15:41	rzezeski	thx for the help
15:41	hiredman	just map first
15:42	hiredman	er
15:42	hiredman	wait
15:42	hiredman	maybe just call seq un it
15:43	hiredman	user=> (seq {:h :a})
15:43	hiredman	([:h :a])
15:44	hiredman	ugh, it is obviously too early for me
15:47	Lau_of_DK	Lets say I have a 5x10 grid that I need to walk. I have a hunch that (for [x (range 10)] (for [y (range 5)] (if (pos? (cell x y)) do something))) wont fly. What will ?
15:48	arohner	if you just want to construct a list of positive elements, for will work
15:50	arohner	(for [x (range 10) y (range 5) :when (pos x y)] (cell x y)) should return a list of positive cells
15:50	arohner	if you need side effects, you can use doseq
15:50	arohner	or (dorun (for [] (do ...)))
15:50	Lau_of_DK	arohner: the trick is not to get positive cells. But a for loop with uneven (ie 10x5 and not 10x10) doesnt run very well
15:50	rhickey	arohner: to your fn question, basically any forms that end up in code must have a print/read representation so they can be stored in bytecode. I didn't have a print/readable renditions of fn objects, now I do, as long as they are not closures
15:51	arohner	now I do = post AOT changes?
15:51	rhickey	arohner: yes
15:53	arohner	rhickey: thanks
15:53	Lau_of_DK	Why have we started using vectors in loops like doseq?
15:53	arohner	Lau_of_DK: what do you mean, 'run very well'?
15:54	Lau_of_DK	arohner: it doesnt do just 10x5, when y has reached 5, it runs for another 5 to match the x (10)
15:55	arohner	(for [x (range 3) y (range 2)] [x y])
15:55	arohner
15:55	arohner	=> ([0 0] [0 1] [1 0] [1 1] [2 0] [2 1])
15:56	arohner	Lau_of_DK: the vector in doseq is to be consistent with let, binding, for
15:57	rhickey	also, doseq now has all the power of for - multiple seqs, :when/:while
15:58	Lau_of_DK	Sweet, feels abit like CL :)
15:58	rhickey	(doseq [x (range 3) y (range 2)] (println x y))
15:59	rhickey	do we can stop explaining dorun :)
15:59	Lau_of_DK	hehe
16:31	Lau_of_DK	It seems that somewhere along the way, agents calling themselves went from (send-off agent self) to (send-off agent #'self) ... why ?
17:04	Chouser	Lau_of_DK: some older code used #'self
17:04	Chouser	I don't think it's required anymore, because of how vars are resolved
17:05	Lau_of_DK	Chouser: I noticed it in the ants.clj in the GoogleGroup, its updated recently i
17:05	Lau_of_DK	I think
18:09	hiredman	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure
18:53	larrytheliquid	is there a built in function to map a group of elements? ie: (group 2 [1 1 2 2 3 3]) => [[1 1] [2 2] [3 3]]?
18:53	Chousuke	partition?
18:54	AWizzArd	larrytheliquid: group is not available as far I know
18:55	AWizzArd	but partition comes close
18:55	Chousuke	partition discards the remainder if the seq if it isn't evenly divisible though,
18:55	larrytheliquid	Chouser & AWizzArd: partition will work, thanks
18:55	AWizzArd	if the number of elements in your collection is divisible by the n by which you want to group then partition works fine.
18:55	larrytheliquid	cool, ty
18:55	Chousuke	writing your own shouldn't be too difficult either
18:56	AWizzArd	right
18:56	larrytheliquid	yeah, just want to minimize duplicating whats already in core
19:49	notallama	is there a way to increase my stack size in java? or just the heap?
19:50	notallama	i could also make my algorithm suck less, but both woud be nice.
19:53	dthomas	Is there some way to get Clojure to give me better backtraces? Or do I need some tool for that, like JSwat?
19:54	dthomas	Right now I just get a single line like: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.net.URL cannot be cast to java.lang.String (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
19:59	Chouser	dthomas: (.printStackTrace *e)
19:59	Chouser	notallama: there's a command-line switch
20:00	Chouser	notallama: http://www.caucho.com/resin-3.0/performance/jvm-tuning.xtp
20:03	notallama	thanks
20:47	hiredman	ugh
20:47	hiredman	how do I make a regex pattern that matches a '.'
20:47	Chouser	#"\.'
20:47	Chouser	#"\."
20:48	hiredman	hmmm
20:48	hiredman	works on my clojure from svn head
20:48	hiredman	but not the one on my machine at home
20:48	Chouser	yep, seems ok.
20:48	Chouser	oh, yeah, if it's old enough -- #"" details changed
20:49	hiredman	ugh
20:50	Chouser	for the old format, I'd try #"\\." but no promises
20:50	thearthur	(use 'org.gnufoo.unit-test.unit-test) --> Could not locate org/gnufoo/unit_test/unit_test.class or org/gnufoo/unit_test/unit_test.clj on classpath: ??? its turning '-' into '_' in the file names
20:50	thearthur	is this on purpose?
20:50	Chouser	thearthur: yes. file and class names should have _ instead of -
20:50	thearthur	why is this?
20:51	Chouser	Java doesn't allow - in class names.
20:51	hiredman	clojurebot: - is _
20:51	clojurebot	Ok.
20:51	hiredman	clojurebot _ is -
20:51	hiredman	clojurebot: _ is -
20:51	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
20:51	thearthur	ok. I dont know java, so thanks for the help, sorry bout the siily ?
20:51	danlarkin	clojurebot: _?
20:51	clojurebot	_ is -
20:52	Chouser	thearthur: no prob. Most languages don't all - in names; they treat it as subtraction
20:52	Chouser	"don't allow"
20:54	thearthur	i downloaded unit-test from gnufoo.org and am trying to use it. could this ever have worked?
20:54	thearthur	with \- in the names?
20:54	Chouser	thearthur: oh! hm.
20:56	thearthur	changing the \- to \_ did infact make it start working
20:57	fyuryu	I have some/lib/one.clj and some/other/two.clj on my classpath. Compiling the first goes ok. But compiling the second (which :uses/:requires the first one) gives me NoClassDefFoundError: some/lib/one$myfun__99 exception.
20:58	fyuryu	anyone ever encountered something like this?
20:58	Chousuke	fyuryu: you need to add the classes dir to your classpath
20:58	Chouser	thearthur: do you have instructions that say to use 'use'? Perhaps it could be made to work using load-file instead of chaing the filenames
20:59	Chousuke	fyuryu: A while ago I was getting weird errors compiling clojure itself because the build result directory wasn't in my classpath :/
21:00	Chousuke	I think clojure thinks that the lib should be compiled but can't find the classes and then breaks.
21:00	Chousuke	or something weird.
21:01	Chousuke	I really don't know why it happened and whether it should be treated as a bug or not.
21:02	fyuryu	hm, I checked again and added it to classpath, to be sure. but it still throws NoClassDefFoundError
21:02	Chousuke	hmm.
21:03	Chousuke	I think you should ask on the group
21:03	Chouser	fyuryu: from what you described, it ought to work. So the problem is most likely in some detail you didn't describe.
21:04	Chouser	fyuryu: can you paste both files with their full path names and the classpath you're using?
21:05	fyuryu	Chouser: yeah, I'm affraid it's something obvious too, the function it complains about was private initially, but changed that and it didn't help
21:07	fyuryu	I'll try to isolate it. The files are too big to paste
21:07	Chouser	ok
21:12	thearthur	why would you use refer instad of use?
21:13	Chouser	'refer' brings names in from a namespace that's already loaded. 'use' loads the .clj first if needed.
21:14	fyuryu	Chousuke: bingo, that was it. ok, I added the classes dir to both libs to classpath (this time in my script which launches clojure)
21:14	thearthur	dose refer have any advantage over use?
21:15	fyuryu	weird, when I only had the parent dir on classpath, compilation of the first lib went ok, even the classes dir was automatically created
21:17	danlarkin	oh this is annoying... (= "a" \a) == false
21:18	Chouser	(= (first "a") \a) and (= "a" (str \a))
21:50	larrytheliquid	(use 'my-lib) works fine when all the code is in <classpath>/my-lib/my-lib.clj, but id like to break the code up into separate files. i did so and used (load-file "lib/my-file.clj") in my-lib.clj, but then when i try to (use 'my-lib) i get FileNotFoundException: lib/my-file.clj
21:54	wlr	Chouser: do you agree that after (require '[some.long.verbose.namespace :as slvn]) it would be nice to be able to (in-ns 'slvn) and get prompts like slvn> ?
22:02	fyuryu	does the AOT compilation currently supports a "main" method or is this only for genclass (or the standalone compiler)?
22:03	fyuryu	just went through posts on the group and I'm slightly confused
22:12	fyuryu	by supporting "main" method I mean (defn main [args] ...) in a file and then being able to run it from the command line (java -cp ... my.lib)
22:15	Chouser	wlr: hm, it doesn't seem like it should ignore the alias
22:15	Chouser	fyuryu: yes, AOT supports main without needing :genclass
22:16	Chouser	fyuryu: you must have a (defn -main ...)
22:21	fyuryu	Chouser: ok, thanks
22:41	cooldude127	well, i'm making my attempt to port on lisp's non-determinism macros to clojure
22:50	Chouser	cooldude127: great!
22:52	cooldude`	yeah, it's only like two macros to get the basics working
22:53	cooldude`	just gotta make sure they work
22:53	cooldude`	also there's dealing with the fact that clojure doesn't have mutability, so i have to use refs
22:54	thearthur	whats clojure for (flatten [[123][123]] ) --> ( 1 2 3 1 2 3)?
22:55	cooldude`	thearthur: my first guess is it's write it yourself
22:55	cooldude`	i don't think it's builtin
22:58	briancarper	seq-utils in clojure-contrib has flatten.