#clojure – 2008-11-18

2008-11-18

02:29	Pupeno	Good morning!
03:52	askentasken	is clojure for concurrency or parallellism or both?
03:52	askentasken	it is really a fun language, i will keep using it for personal projects
03:55	cwyang	ho
03:55	cwyang	(typo)
03:57	Lau_of_DK	askentasken: both I'd say, theyre somewhat interconnected
04:12	leafw_	rhickey__: http://clojure.org/special_forms#let contains an extra semicolon ';' that creates confusion, after the third paragraph.
04:13	leafw_	rhickey__: in a Clojure code example I mean.
04:14	leafw_	rhickey__: happens because the code is inside a <pre ..></pre> block, but the & is present as &
04:14	leafw_	rhickey__: there is a second insance of the same a few lines below it.
04:15	leafw_	rhickey__: ... actually, in many.
04:18	Lau_of_DK	leafw_: By browser doesnt render it like that, to me it looks squeaky clean, Firefox3
04:22	H4ns	leafw_: what browser is it that you're using?
04:23	H4ns	(ie also renders & correctly inside <pre>, and i think that the behavior is completely correct)
04:25	leafw_	H4ns: firefox 3.0
04:26	H4ns	leafw_: wfm
04:26	leafw_	wfm ?
04:27	H4ns	wfm == works for me, but in fact it does not
04:27	H4ns	hm.
04:27	H4ns	(at least chrome also screws up)
04:28	leafw_	something is werid, perhaps the css tag is doing something to the pre
04:28	H4ns	true. tomhickey is who would take care of that.
04:28	leafw_	if you can reach him please do
04:29	H4ns	it is not the css, it is the javascript colorizer that screws up.
04:29	H4ns	you can see that the rendering is correct when the browser first loads the page, but then the beautifier makes the extra semicolon appear.
04:30	H4ns	tomhickey: ^ you may want to read the log until here :)
05:22	askentasken	is there a java-lib for permutations?
06:01	Lau_of_DK	askentasken: Probably, but there is also one in Clojure.contrib.lazy_seqs
06:02	Lau_of_DK	Although, I dont think it follows the correct formulae for permutations, so they are not (imo) produced in the correct sequence, but still all possible permutations are turned out
06:08	leafw_	anybody uses chimp for ViM? What does "Supply <chim.id> to the glue functions" mean? What/where are these glue functions?
06:15	askentasken	Lau: ok order is not important for my task
06:16	askentasken	how do i get contrib?
06:18	askentasken	perms xs = [(h:t) \| h <- xs, t <- perms $ delete h xs]
06:18	askentasken	anyone can trnslate that to clojure?
06:22	askentasken	do i just import clojure-contrib to user? or it is a ajr?
06:22	askentasken	jar
06:28	Lau_of_DK	I think they've made a jar, which you just put on the classpath
06:28	Lau_of_DK	Otherwise just download the source to your clojure dir and (require 'clojure.contrib.lazy_seqs) if I remember correctly
06:29	Lau_of_DK	The code you posted, which language is it in ?
06:30	Chousuke	looks like haskell
06:32	Pupeno	Lau_of_DK: was it you who was playing with Qt?
06:36	Lau_of_DK	Pupeno: Yes, I was one of the players
06:36	askentasken	is the paste-to clojure not working anymore?
06:36	Lau_of_DK	lisppaste8: url
06:36	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
06:37	Lau_of_DK	If you use that, it should work - If it doesnt, then you answered your own question :)
06:37	askentasken	http://paste.lisp.org/display/70635
06:37	askentasken	naive and not wokring
06:37	askentasken	is there already discard-val and discard-at ?
06:41	Lau_of_DK	See filter / remove
06:48	hoeck	askentasken: do you want to remove the first occurence of val in coll or every occurence of val in coll?
07:03	askentasken	first
07:15	hoeck	askentasken: there is split-whith, which takes a predicate and returns 2 seqs
07:16	askentasken	not exactly what iw ant
07:16	askentasken	anyway i have my won so it sok
07:17	askentasken	did perms like this: (defn perms [coll]
07:17	askentasken	(if (nil? coll)
07:17	askentasken	[[]]
07:17	askentasken	(for [h coll t (perms (discard-val h coll))]
07:17	askentasken	(conj t h))))
07:17	askentasken	perhaps naive implementation but works
07:20	hoeck	or see: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70635#1
07:20	askentasken	is count O(1) for everything? lists and vectors?
07:21	Chousuke	it is for most things.
07:21	Chousuke	but not all seqs
07:28	askentasken	for vectors?
07:28	askentasken	for lists?
07:28	askentasken	(count [1 2 3 4 5]) O(1)?
07:28	askentasken	(count '(1 2 3 4 5)) ?
07:28	hoeck	yes
07:28	hoeck	O(1)
07:28	askentasken	is vector genera�lly preferred over lists? they seem easier to work with
07:28	hoeck	they are in fact some kind of trees to make copying cheap
07:28	askentasken	you dont have to reverse your recursive calls either(which you often have to with lists)
07:29	hoeck	vectors are good for appending stuff
07:29	hoeck	lists are good for code
07:31	askentasken	lol i was writing discard-val -all but then thats obv filter...
07:31	askentasken	code?
07:31	askentasken	code as in lispcode?
07:31	askentasken	macros'
07:33	hoeck	askentasken: yeah, expressions
07:41	askentasken	hmm could it be possible to inmplement python-like splicing with a nice macro?
07:41	askentasken	a = [1,2,3,4,5]
07:41	askentasken	a[2:4] _> [3,4]
07:41	askentasken	but how do i define a macro using infix? is that possible?
07:41	askentasken	to do that i need access to the clojure parser? or everything you can do with amcros that you can with the parser?
07:42	askentasken	hmm wait i already ahve take-between
07:45	hoeck	askentasken: for vectors, there is also subvec
07:49	hoeck	askentasken: you could create your own subclass of vector and implement invoke so that ([1 2 3 4] [2 4]) returns the subvector [3 4]
08:01	duck1123	that would be very confusing
08:02	askentasken	subvec is what iw ant and i almost always use vectors not lists anyway, veyr good
08:04	duck1123	It would be cool to have an index macro of some sort (#[2 4] [1 2 3 4 5]) => (3 4)
08:06	duck1123	although subvec is pretty easy to write and clearer
08:07	askentasken	is there any way to make the errorsreports shorter and better. like now when i dom something wrong it jus flushes the screen, quite annoying and the error-messages are nt that help ful.
08:07	askentasken	it doesnt even tell me where in the program it happened, usually jsut in some .java module
08:08	askentasken	yeah that was what i wanted but subvec is ok
08:08	askentasken	but something combinable liek pythons, [-x:] [x:y] etc...
08:09	duck1123	askentasken: are you working directly with the repl, or are you using some editor? (emacs, vim, netbeans)
08:09	duck1123	I know with slime (emacs) it initially only shows a few lines of the trace on errors
08:10	askentasken	emacs + repl
08:10	askentasken	not slime though
08:10	askentasken	just the first clojure-mode
08:10	askentasken	that came
08:12	hoeck	just installed a new slime version, and now its possible to throw the causing exception, which shows you at least the function name where stuff went wrong
08:12	hoeck	i mean a new swank-clojure
08:15	askentasken	rhickey: what is your opinion on Python anyway?
08:16	leafw_	any chim or gorilla user in Vim? I can't get it to work
08:19	leafw_	and the documentation is, unfortunately, pitiful
08:23	MarkVolkmann	Revision 1109 doesn't build for me. I get an IllegalArgumentException related to precomile.clj.
08:24	askentasken	is there concat for vector?
08:25	askentasken	i dont want lists it seems athere is a lot of arbitrary type-conversion which i dont like, or am just doing it wrong :)
08:26	hoeck	askentasken: (reduce conj v1 v2)
08:28	MarkVolkmann	Has anyone done an svn update and run ant this morning?
08:29	hoeck	MarkVolkmann: me, but it works, at least it builts correctly
08:29	rhickey	askentasken: Python is ok, I had fun the few times I used it
08:30	rhickey	MarkVolkmann: worked for me (pulled and working in different office today)
08:30	rhickey	MarkVolkmann: did you clean?
08:30	hoeck	just made the transition from pre-AOT to AOT, and it worked fine
08:30	_deepfire	rhickey, is there some description for future direction of Clojure?
08:30	MarkVolkmann	No clean ... I'm trying that now.
08:31	MarkVolkmann	Doing a clean fixed it. Thanks!
08:31	rhickey	askentasken: Python doesn't fit my mental model for some reason
08:31	gnuvince	hello
08:33	rhickey	_deepfire: not a formal one - we discuss things often on the group, I respond to community needs and my own inclinations, most of what's to come will probably be in libraries, that's been true for a while, other than AOT, which really didn't change the language model
08:35	rhickey	_deepfire: there's a todo here: http://richhickey.backpackit.com/pub/1597914 which will probably move to a more formal tracker soon
08:42	askentasken	http://paste.lisp.org/display/70639
08:42	askentasken	anyone good with permutations ^^
08:42	askentasken	it sort of works
08:42	askentasken	but to many [] and () :)
08:52	_deepfire	rhickey, thank you!
09:03	askentasken	how can i do ona map get-with-default
09:05	askentasken	ah i found it
09:06	Chousuke	still working on the tic-tac-toe thing? or something else? :)
09:08	MarkVolkmann	askentaken: In your code paste, where is the discard-val function defined?
09:21	askentasken	Chousuke: other stuff but i will add minmax later
09:36	tomhickey	H4ns & leafw_: fixed the with the code highlighter & issue on the site. thanks for the heads up.
09:37	H4ns	tomhickey: looks good now, thanks!
09:40	askentasken	my head is spinnging trying to implement fibonacci with memoization. anyone seen a solution for that?
09:45	askentasken	can i ahve ordered maps? ie maps that preserve input order?
09:45	askentasken	if i want a Map but want several keys of th same value, what datastructure is then most suited?
09:48	Chouser	askentasken: array-map maintains original input order
09:51	Chouser	askentasken: not sure about a Map with multiple same-val keys, but one option might be to use a vector as the key, with your "real" key as the first item, and some unique identifier as the second.
09:56	askentasken	yes that could work, didnt know that was allowed, cool
09:57	Chouser	yep, one of the many benefits of immutable collections is they work great as Map keys.
09:58	Chouser	also, vectors sort with their first item as the most significant, next item the next, and so on. That can be useful too, such as for sorted-set s.
10:19	askentasken	can i do (sort-map (on-key-2) somemap) somehow?
10:20	askentasken	without writing ym won...
10:20	askentasken	own
10:21	rhickey_	askentasken: sort-by
10:24	askentasken	clojure/sort-by
10:24	askentasken	([keyfn coll] [keyfn comp coll])
10:25	askentasken	i have a map a= {[4 4] 8, [1 1] 3, [2 2] 1, [3 3] 2}
10:25	askentasken	and i want to sort by the second key-val
10:26	rhickey_	askentasken: not sure what you mean by "second key-val"
10:26	rhickey_	user=> (sort-by val {[4 4] 8, [1 1] 3, [2 2] 1, [3 3] 2})
10:26	rhickey_	([[2 2] 1] [[3 3] 2] [[1 1] 3] [[4 4] 8])
10:26	Chouser	askentasken: you want a seq or a new map?
10:28	askentasken	a seq
10:29	askentasken	[2 2] 1 means nbr 2 order 2 value 1
10:29	askentasken	i want to sort by order
10:29	askentasken	im doing a compress-function
10:30	askentasken	(compress-with-info [1 1 1 2 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4])
10:30	askentasken	{[4 4] 8, [1 1] 3, [2 2] 1, [3 3] 2}
10:30	askentasken	user=>
10:30	askentasken	so i want to sort it and return : [[1 1] 3, [2 2] 1 etc
10:31	askentasken	sortby key sorts on the first item in key, i want to sort on the second
10:31	Chouser	(sort-by #(second (key %)) coll)
10:32	Chouser	but if you reverse the order of your key vectors, you can just use sort which should run faster.
10:33	rhickey_	askentasken: or structurally, each entry will be [[n o] v], so sort-by (fn [[[n o] v]] o)
10:34	_sk	hi, i have a question regarding gen-class, is there a way so that we could use the 'this' reference while defining methods?
10:35	Chouser	pretty-print is a surprisingly fuzzy operation.
10:35	rhickey_	Chouser: what's not precise about "pretty" ?
10:35	Chouser	rhickey_: :-P
10:36	Chouser	_sk: the first arg passed to each method is the "this" value
10:37	askentasken	yes i did that
10:44	askentasken	what happened to paste to clojure?
10:44	askentasken	http://paste.lisp.org/display/70648
10:44	askentasken	^^ my compress function, any tips on improvements?
10:50	Chouser	should be able to say just (sort acc) instead of (sort-by key acc)
10:50	Chouser	it's more idiomatic to say (if x b a) than (if (nil? x) a b)
10:51	_sk	thx, from the example in genclass.clj it seems we have to explicitly pass in the whole object as an argument to methods, thus it looks a bit unfamiliar
10:51	Chouser	but either way, that will only process coll up through the first nil value in the coll, which is probably not what you want.
10:53	Chouser	_sk: you mean like (.methodName whole-object arg1 arg2) ?
10:53	Chousuke	_sk: in java, the object is just moved from inside the parentheses to before the dot, like so: (.method obj a b) -> obj.method(a b); :)
10:53	Chousuke	oh
10:53	Chousuke	+, :P
10:54	Chouser	heh
10:54	Chouser	hm... (.method obj, a b) ?
10:54	Chousuke	no, in the java
10:55	Chousuke	obj.method(a,b);
10:55	Chouser	yeah, I know, but what about (.method obj, a b) ? better or worse?
10:56	_sk	Chousuke: yes, exactly :)
10:56	Chousuke	I can't say I like that better.
10:56	Chousuke	but I guess you could do that :P
10:56	Chouser	yeah, me neither. nm.
10:57	_sk	another question, in java, let's say we have a constructor for an object, and in this constructor we use the 'this' value for some purpose, is that possible in clojure?
10:59	Chouser	_sk: I don't think so, though rhickey_ may want to weigh in. But you shouldn't need to -- the value you return from your init fn becomes the state for you gen-class object.
10:59	Chouser	You can do anything you want with that value before you return it, including passing it to functions.
11:00	_sk	hmm, in fact we can do whatever we want with it, just not the java way =)
11:00	_sk	thanks a lot
11:00	Chouser	_sk: yes. Generally, gen-class is used only for interop with existing Java libs.
11:01	askentasken	I just keep thinking I must be able to make my compress-function shorter
11:01	askentasken	cant I use reduce somehow?
11:01	Chouser	It allows you to build a little adapter class, but Clojure expects you to do most of your real algorithm and application work using Clojure collections, fn, namespaces instead of building new Java classes.
11:03	Chouser	askentasken: the whole (let [sorted...]) expression is run just once at the end, right? That could be moved outside your loop, which might help you see other ways of reducing it.
11:05	Chouser	askentasken: that's doing a sort of run-length encoding?
11:09	askentasken	yes it preserves order and count
11:10	askentasken	how would i move it outside? i still need a basecase
11:12	askentasken	i can switch to (if x...) and then swithc order of that foc
11:12	askentasken	ofc
11:13	Chouser	askentasken: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70648#1
11:15	askentasken	can i have if-elses anywhere?
11:15	Chouser	you can use cond
11:16	askentasken	ah, very nice :)
11:16	Chouser	hm, I didn't even use xs -- that wastes a line
11:17	Chouser	ah, well, you get the idea
11:19	askentasken	yes very nice, thanks
11:22	askentasken	and no tailrecursion wont be a problem?
11:22	Chouser	askentasken: correct, because of lazy-cons
11:23	Chouser	lazy-cons doesn't actually evaluate with of its args, but returns a new object. So anything that walks the resulting sequence acts like a sort of iterator, not recursive at all from Java's point of view.
11:23	askentasken	is that never as in NEVER or never as probably never(like with laziness in haskell where the thunks blows the stack instead))
11:23	askentasken	ok
11:24	Chouser	alternatively, you could use loop/recur or reduce and pass along an accumulator -- that would get you a non-lazy version that also would not blow the stack.
11:25	Chouser	but you were on to something -- replacing lazy-cons with cons would give you a non-lazy fn that would threaten the stack.
11:38	askentasken	(defn uncompress [coll] (map #(take (second %) (repeat (first %))) coll))
11:39	askentasken	returns a list of lists
11:39	Chouser	try mapcat
11:41	askentasken	lol wait i didnt even see that
11:47	askentasken	http://paste.lisp.org/display/70648#2
11:47	askentasken	Chouser: are those both O(n)?
11:49	Chouser	askentasken: I think so.
11:50	Chouser	split-with touches every val of coll from the front through the split-point twice, so that's O(n)
11:51	Chouser	the remainder b is passed in again so that should all be O(n)
11:51	Chouser	the reduce version is probably faster by a constant, though.
11:53	duck1123	there should be metadata attached to each function describing what kind of performance it has
11:53	duck1123	although you couldn't be sure you could trust it, it would be interesting to have as part of the docs
11:55	rhickey_	Chouser: did you see: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_frm/thread/79d07b898b2a0fde
11:55	Chouser	100000 item seq: cmprss -> 20.734263 msecs, compress -> 16.119936 msecs
11:56	Chouser	rhickey_: yes, thanks. replying now.
11:59	askentasken	how do you time?
12:01	askentasken	wait fi do (Math/round (* (rand) 8) that doesnt evenly distribute between all numbers right? because 8 only has 7.5 and up will 7 has 6.5 tp 7.49
12:01	Chousuke	I'm getting some kind of an error from that thread :/
12:01	Chouser	askentasken: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70648#3
12:01	Chousuke	it says there are no messages and that they may have expired or been deleted :P
12:02	Chouser	Chousuke: I didn't like the competition, so I, uh... took care of it.
12:02	Chousuke	hah
12:03	askentasken	Chouser:what do you mean? i dont see anything added
12:03	Chouser	askentasken: you may have to shift-reload
12:04	gnuvince	The thread is no longer there
12:05	Chouser	weird. I just replied to the thread, and it says "2 messages" but only mine is visible.
12:05	tWip	has with-in-str changed? I'm now getting errors about with-open requiring a vector for bindings
12:07	Chouser	tWip: with-in-str appears to be out-of-date with the new with-open. Probably my fault, sorry.
12:07	tWip	okay, I'll work around until it is fixed
12:08	Chousuke	Chouser: I noticed a potential problem with with-open a while ago. the new binding syntax allows multiple bindings but it seems with-open will only close the first binding :/
12:11	Chouser	rhickey_: quick patch available: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/127081d85fb1b4bf
12:14	Chousuke	arbitrary destructuring is probably overkill for with-open but it'd be nice if with-open worked correctly with multiple bindings (like [a b, c d, e f]), which is not too difficult; or at least threw an error. :/
12:14	Chouser	Chousuke: yeah, the general problem of unhandled extra bindings was mentioned on the google group.
12:15	Chouser	rhickey_ didn't want the extra error-handling code, but I can imagine that it'd be nice to have several things closed in a single scope.
12:15	Chousuke	that's one of the reasons I tried to write my bound-names function, but in the end I'm not sure it works for all the corner cases :/
12:15	Chouser	Chousuke: oh, I see. Interesting.
12:16	askentasken	(take 100 (repeatedly (corner-move)))
12:16	Chousuke	with something like it you could write ~@(map (memfn close) (bound-names bindings)) or something, which would be nice
12:16	askentasken	(take 100 (repeatedly (corner-move))) , why doesn that work java.lang.ClassCastException but why?
12:17	Chouser	askentasken: does calling corner-move return "a function of no args, presumably with side effects"?
12:18	Chouser	askentasken: perhaps you mean (repeatedly corner-move)
12:19	askentasken	yes
12:19	askentasken	ah!
12:19	Chousuke	maybe with-open should just use let* directly to disallow misuse of destructuring.
12:20	Chousuke	it'd still allow multiple simple bindings though, but those are pretty easy to deal with
12:22	Chouser	.close already gets mad if you try to use destructuring in with-open
12:23	Chouser	so there's just the multiple-bindings issue.
12:25	askentasken	is there no builtin for assoc with defualt?
12:26	Chouser	default for what?
12:28	askentasken	(defn assoc-with [m k v]
12:28	askentasken	(if (contains? m k)
12:28	askentasken	(assoc m k (+ v (get m k)))
12:28	askentasken	(assoc m k v)))
12:28	askentasken	something like that?
12:28	askentasken	i couldnt find in the docs so
12:28	askentasken	that nos so general though
12:28	askentasken	v should b a function perhaps
12:32	wwmorgan	askentasken: I think you want update-in
12:32	Chouser	or perhaps merge-with
12:37	askentasken	neither
12:40	Chouser	(merge-with + {:a 1} {:a 1}) ==> {:a 2}
12:40	Chouser	(merge-with + {:a 1} {:b 1}) ==> {:b 1, :a 1}
12:41	Chouser	(defn assoc-with [m k v] (merge-with + m {k v}))
12:46	wwmorgan	(defn assoc-with [m k v] (update-in m [k] #(+ (or % 0) v))) --- not as nice as chouser's
12:48	askentasken	not expensive?
12:48	askentasken	merge-with i mean?
12:51	askentasken	http://paste.lisp.org/display/70661
12:52	gnuvince	I finally finished the second part of my little Clojure tutorial. The first draft is available here: http://fornost.homeip.net:81/vince/clojure-comics2.html. Comments can be sent at vfoley at gmail dot com. Thank you.
12:52	askentasken	doing permutations and it is pissing me off
13:03	Chouser	askentasken: spoilers clojure.contrib.lazy-seqs
13:20	Chousuke	hm
13:23	askentasken	im stoopid i dont get where to download from: http://sourceforge.net/projects/clojure-contrib
13:23	Chousuke	checkout the SVN instead and use that
13:23	Chousuke	or use some git mirror.
13:24	Chousuke	SVN checkouts take ages.
13:27	Chousuke	git handles local changes better too. :/ I include the .clj files in the jar for slime, but that modification is in its own branch so tracking master is easy :)
13:27	askentasken	is there a unique or nub function?
13:28	Chouser	I like git-svn, so I can pull changes immediately, but maintain local branches.
13:28	Chouser	askentasken: (doc distinct)
13:29	gnuvince	askentasken: distinct I think
13:29	gnuvince	Oh
13:34	lisppaste8	Chouser pasted "permutations using sets" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70662
13:34	Chouser	oh, lisppaste8! welcome back
13:38	rhickey_	Chouser: I thought I had fixed with-in-str already
13:40	askentasken	how do i do doc-strings?
13:41	Chouser	rhickey_: oh, indeed you have. sorry.
13:41	rhickey_	np
13:41	askentasken	Chouser: how did u paste directly to the channel?
13:43	tWip	so with-in-str should work in latest (1109)?
13:43	Chouser	tWip: as of 1108, yes
13:44	tWip	I thought I was using 1108, oh well
13:45	tWip	It does indeed work now, thanks.
13:53	Chouser	askentasken: just choose "#clojure" from the channel list. It hasn't been working for the past couple days.
13:54	askentasken	RHickey: couldnt it be changed or added so docstrings could be between [argument] and function-body? instead of between f-name and args
13:54	Chouser	askentasken: functions can have multiple arg lists, but only one docstring.
13:55	Chouser	(defn my-inc "add 1 or more" ([x] (inc x)) ([x y] (+ x y)))
13:56	askentasken	uh, why and how does that work?
13:56	Chousuke	you can overload functions.
13:56	Chouser	allows different definitions based on number of arguments passed in.
13:58	Chousuke	note that there's an extra pair of parentheses if you want multiple definitions. Sometimes that results in non-obvious error messages if you have mismatched parentheses when defining a function
14:07	askentasken	from where cna i pull contrib with git?
14:07	Chousuke	http://github.com/kevinoneill/clojure-contrib/tree/master
14:08	Chousuke	an unofficial mirror, but it is kept up-to-date with reasonable latency
14:19	rhickey_	It's alive - AOT/gen-class
14:19	tomhickey	now you can breathe again! ;)
14:20	rhickey_	now I have to write docs :(
14:20	tomhickey	lol
14:20	Chousuke	is the interface still the same or improved?
14:20	rhickey_	gen-and-save/load are gone
14:20	rhickey_	use a :gen-class clause in your ns form
14:21	Chousuke	can you still generate classes dynamically?
14:22	rhickey_	Chousuke: only via proxy, dynamic named classes are an oxymoron in some ways
14:22	rhickey_	Chouser: not up yet, hang tight
14:22	Chouser	:-)
14:23	lisppaste8	rhickey pasted "AOT/gen-class syntax" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70665
14:24	blackdog_	and the - prefix is a method?
14:24	rhickey_	note how you don't need any quotes any more, also Java names for primitives are supported, and fns for class can use class
14:25	Chouser	nice.
14:25	rhickey_	blackdog_: these are real fns, -blah is a naming convention whereby the method can find the fn
14:25	blackdog_	ok
14:26	Chouser	all classes mentioned need to be available at compile time?
14:26	rhickey_	you can edit this and reload while instances are running as long as you don't change the signatures
14:26	kotarak	o.O cool
14:26	kotarak	How do I specify the name?
14:27	rhickey_	Chouser: yes, for now - I can ease that in the future but it requires some retooling in the compiler - right now everything is done off of reflection
14:27	Chouser	kotarak: the namespace name is the class name
14:27	rhickey_	kotarak: the ns is the name
14:27	rhickey_	must be
14:27	rhickey_	If you leave out the :gen-class, you get support for main only
14:27	kotarak	Hmmm.. Are capitals allowed? From the Java side, my.Hello is probably expected, no?
14:28	rhickey_	kotarak: sure
14:28	kotarak	rhickey_: this is awesome! :)
14:29	cemerick	rhickey_: is the gen-class fn usefully callable still? Of course, I'm thinking of the road ahead for my genbean concoction.
14:29	rhickey_	with the stand-alone compiler Stuart and Steve are working on, the workflow looks like this:
14:29	rhickey_	Macintosh:clojure rich$ java -server -cp ./classes:./src/clj:clojure.jar clojure.compile classes my.helloCompiling 1 libs to classes
14:29	rhickey_	Macintosh:clojure rich$ java -server -cp ./classes:./src/clj:clojure.jar my.hello fooHello foo World!
14:29	rhickey_	42
14:29	rhickey_	erm
14:30	rhickey_	like this:
14:30	rhickey_	java -server -cp ./classes:./src/clj:clojure.jar clojure.compile classes my.hello
14:30	rhickey_	Compiling 1 libs to classes
14:30	rhickey_	java -server -cp ./classes:./src/clj:clojure.jar my.hello foo
14:30	rhickey_	Hello foo World!
14:30	rhickey_	42
14:30	Chousuke	the constructors syntax and the init function still look weird. :/
14:31	Chousuke	meaning my intuition can't figure out why they look like that :P
14:32	rhickey_	cemerick: right now I haven't worked through stand-alone use of gen-class, it ends up you need 2 classes to do this right, if you look after I put this up, you'll see an my.hello__init.class as well. Essentially I had to automate the 2 part work everyone was doing manually
14:34	cemerick	rhickey_: actually, I may not need access to gen-class itself, if the options provided to genclass are hanging off the namespace somewhere...
14:34	rhickey_	this lets the body se the class being defined, but means the stub generated by gen-class tries to load the __init class
14:36	cemerick	yeah, in fact, I'm sure of that, and not having to conjure up the parameters to gen-class will make my work a whole lot easier in that context, anyway
14:37	cemerick	now I just need to figure out how to best generate BeanInfo classes ech
14:44	askentasken	where should i place contrib src? can i link to the whole folder from user.clj?
14:45	Chouser	just add clojure-contrib/src to your java classpath
14:45	Chouser	Then you can use 'require' or 'use' in your .clj
14:47	askentasken	how do i add to my java-classpath?
14:47	rhickey_	ok, rev 1110 adds AOT gen-class
14:50	Chouser	askentasken: java -cp clojure.jar:...../clojure-contrib/src clojure.lang.Repl foo.clj
14:51	Chouser	proxy works as-is for now?
14:51	rhickey_	Chouser: I hope so
14:52	askentasken	Caused by: java.lang.Exception: Can't take value of a macro: #'user/assoc!
14:52	askentasken	(defmacro assoc! [map_ k v]
14:52	askentasken	`(def ~map_ (assoc ~map_ ~k ~v)))
14:52	rhickey_	I haven't really advertised much a subgoal in this, as I'm not there yet, but it is the elimination of the need for a custom classloader when precompiling
14:52	askentasken	why? the macro works...
14:53	Chouser	askentasken: what would you do with a reference to a macro if you had one?
14:53	rhickey_	that will require some AOT support for proxy
14:54	Chouser	oh, so custom classloader is currently required with AOT even if you're not using proxy?
14:54	askentasken	Chouser: in .emacs?
14:55	rhickey_	Chouser: There are still remnants, I haven't gone after that specifically yet
14:55	Chouser	rhickey_: ok. That's probably what you were trying to tell me about applets yesterday.
14:55	askentasken	Chouser: with a ref to one? well (macroexpand-1 assoc!) i also tired calling it.
14:56	rhickey_	Chouser: right - applets and Android are the targets for that
14:56	Chousuke	askentasken: write a macro that produces a macro call form and do (macroexpand-1 (assoc!))
14:56	Chouser	askentasken: that's not how macroexpand works. try: (macroexpand-1 '(assoc! foo bar baz))
14:56	johnwayn`	rhickey_: Is there anything like proxy-super for overridden methods using :gen-class?
14:56	rhickey_	askentasken: what you are trying to do with that macro is not worth doing
14:57	rhickey_	askentasken: and no one should help you do it :)
14:58	rhickey_	(a macro for destructive re-def)
14:58	johnwayner	Oh, and of course swank breaks again :)
14:59	danlei	jup
14:59	rhickey_	johnwayner: not exactly, as the 2 use different mechanisms.
14:59	rhickey_	does swank use gen-class?
14:59	danlei	yes
14:59	rhickey_	interesting
14:59	johnwayner	java.lang.Exception: No such var: swank.util/gen-and-load-class (core.clj:39)
15:00	rhickey_	uh, oh, gen-and-load...
15:00	rhickey_	never should have existed
15:01	cemerick	eliminating the custom classloader should also simplify things in osgi, going to .NET, etc.
15:02	Chouser	I hope in all this AOT-fun, nobody loses track of how fantastic the dynamic REPL is. I care about that so much more than AOT.
15:02	Chousuke	askentasken: def'd names should in many cases be treated with the same care as global variables. you wouldn't reassign a value into a global variable in C without a very good reason, would you? :)
15:02	rhickey_	Chouser: what's great is you get both, for delivery AOT means a lot
15:02	askentasken	rhickey: it already works muaahaha, im just testing macroexpand but it doesnt work. how do i use macroexpand?
15:03	rhickey_	But after you;ve got stubs, you still get repl bugfixing on the fly etc
15:03	kotarak	(macroexpand '(foo-macro with args))
15:03	rhickey_	askentasken: pass the form as data - i.e. quote it
15:03	askentasken	Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to: assoc-BANG-
15:03	Chouser	askentasken: I already gave you an example.
15:04	askentasken	ah
15:06	H4ns	lisppaste8: url
15:06	lisppaste8	To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/clojure and enter your paste.
15:06	H4ns	does lisppaste8 feel well again?
15:07	Chouser	H4ns: last I checked, yes
15:07	askentasken	i saw fiex
15:07	askentasken	fixed
15:07	askentasken	i dont use that macro i just created it to learn macros
15:08	H4ns	Chouser: ok
15:09	askentasken	(load-file "C:/clojure_20080916/progs/oo/oo4.clj")
15:09	askentasken	is in my user.clj now, can i do load-dir "C:/clojure/contrib"?
15:11	Chouser	rhickey_: any chance of getting the breaking-change to doto in?
15:12	Chouser	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/d668c590c6cf982b
15:48	Wodin	Hi. On the 19th of September I tried out using dcm4che-2.0.15 from Clojure: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-09-19.html . I tried first with the June release and got "No matching method found" error. Then I tried with the September release and it worked. I've just tried now again with r1109 and it failed again!
15:49	Wodin	I've bisected it back to the changes in r1047 and 1048.
15:49	Wodin	If I back out those changes then it works again.
15:50	Wodin	i.e. r1046 works, r1047 and later give the "No matching method found" error.
15:50	duck1123	Wodin: You probably need to move the libraries to match the new locations
15:50	Wodin	duck1123: If I just revert r1047 and 1048 without changing anything else then it works.
15:51	Wodin	It's a few lines in src/jvm/clojure/lang/Reflector.java
15:51	Wodin	The log message for those revisions is: hardwired JDK 6 StringBuilder workaround to StringBuilder
15:53	shoover_	askentasken: no, but check out (doc ns) for ways to make a lib load other things it needs. or if you really want to you could write a load-dir using file-seq or the listFiles method in java.io.File
16:00	lisppaste8	Wodin pasted "dcm4che2" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70670
16:03	Wodin	duck1123_: Any other ideas? :)
16:05	duck1123_	If I'm referencing a Java class inside a macro, but I'm calling that macro from within a different namespace, do I have to do an import in the calling file, or is there a way to just import it in the defining file?
16:05	duck1123_	Wodin: unfortunately, no
16:05	Wodin	duck1123_: OK thanks.
16:06	Chouser	Wodin: which line gives you the error?
16:07	duck1123_	which line are you getting the error on?
16:07	Wodin	Chouser: It's the getString call.
16:08	Wodin	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: getString (dinfo.clj:0)
16:08	Wodin	Not sure why it says it's line 0, though.
16:08	Chouser	which jar file(s) do I need to test this?
16:08	Wodin	Same error as I got in September with the June release of Clojure: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-09-19.html
16:08	Chouser	ah, core?
16:09	Wodin	I'm using dcm4che-core-2.0.15.jar, log4j.jar, slf4j-api-1.2.jar, slf4j-log4j12-1.2.jar
16:09	Wodin	Chouser: core? I don't know what you mean.
16:10	Wodin	Chouser: Oh, dcm4che-core? Yes.
16:11	Chouser	ok, i've got your error
16:11	Wodin	Chouser: So if I revert revisions 1047 and 1048 then it works with r1110.
16:13	mehrheit	what would be the equivalent of expt (from, for example, scheme) in clojure?
16:13	Chouser	mehrheit: dunno what that is, sorry.
16:13	Wodin	i.e.: svn up; svn diff -r1046:1048 \| patch -p0 -R
16:13	Chouser	mehrheit: what does it do?
16:13	mehrheit	Chouser: raises a number to a power
16:13	Wodin	Chouser: expt is like x to the power of y.
16:13	Hun	iirc (.pow )
16:14	Hun	or Math.pow
16:14	Hun	something like that
16:14	mehrheit	Math/pow works on doubles
16:14	mehrheit	something more generic would be better
16:15	Hun	that's pretty hard if one doesn't write a full numeric tower (which again is pretty hard if you want to cooperate with java)
16:16	Chouser	mehrheit: BigInteger has a .pow: (.pow 2M 10)
16:16	Chouser	BigDecimal, sorry
16:18	mehrheit	Chouser: yes, that will do
16:19	mehrheit	Hun: but don't *, +, etc. already work on all numeric types and automatically promote big results to BitIntegers or similar?
16:20	Hun	they are implemented inside clojure. but the more mathy stuff comes from java and is pretty hard to integrate (note that i'm just estimating. i'm not an implementor)
16:20	Chouser	Wodin: looks like you're going to have to take it up with rhickey_. The method you want isBridge (whatever that means), but the class is not StringBuilder, thus Clojure's not letting you get to that method.
16:20	Chouser	Wodin: I don't understand the purpose of that logic.
16:22	lisppaste8	Wodin annotated #70670 with "Exception with r1110" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70670#1
16:23	Wodin	Chouser: OK thanks.
16:23	Chouser	Wodin: There may be a (very ugly) workaround though. hang on...
16:25	Chouser	(. dcm getString 0x00100010) is supposed to return a string?
16:26	gnuvince	Did anyone have time to review my draft?
16:26	Chouser	might it sometimes return nil?
16:27	Wodin	Chouser: I think it could return nil. I haven't looked at the code, but I seem to remember it being able to return nil.
16:27	djpowell	anyone figured out the new aot gen-class yet? - looks interesting
16:28	Wodin	Chouser: You said in September: (. (new org.dcm4che2.data.BasicDicomObject) getString 1234) <-- works for me (very recent version of clojure) It returns nil and doesn't throw an exception.
16:28	askentasken	can i use cond and let together?
16:29	lisppaste8	Chouser annotated #70670 with "ugly workaround" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70670#2
16:30	askentasken	im back on my tictactoe, wirting a simple AI. i need to cond a bunch of stuff but can i di cond (let [...] and then have a local let?
16:30	Chouser	Wodin: but even if that works for you, take it up with rhickey_ either here or on the google group.
16:30	Wodin	Chouser: Don't understand it, but I agree it looks ugly :)
16:30	Chousuke	who has commit access to clojure-contrib? I think it's pretty ugly that the numbers.clj bigdec test throws an exception.
16:30	Chouser	I don't know what the logic should be for finding the right method, but clearly it's not right.
16:31	Chouser	Wodin: the first line uses reflection to dig out a Method named "getString" that takes an int
16:31	rottcodd	drewc: fwiw, I don't like the derivative names either, preferring something like project.clojure.org or clojure.net
16:31	Chouser	Wodin: the second line builds up the argument array and invokes the Method.
16:32	Wodin	Chouser: OK, I see. Thanks.
16:32	Chouser	you ought to be able to bundle all that in your print-tag fn and encapsulate the ugliness
16:32	drewc	rottcodd: i registered 'projecture.net' yesterday, as it seemed to be the most agreeable. I could still be swayed by a compelling argument though :)
16:33	Wodin	Chouser: Yes, but I'd prefer not to if I don't need to. By the way, that's basically my first Clojure "program". Is it terrible? :)
16:34	Chouser	right, I provided the workaround so that you could continue working on your program. It's not acceptible as a long-term solution, and I'm sure rich would agree.
16:35	Chouser	Wodin: your bug writeup is pretty good. you might include a link to the javadoc for the getString method you're trying to call.
16:35	Chouser	Wodin: then just whine about it until Rich fixes it. :-)
16:36	rottcodd	drewc: no arguments here, thanks for providing the service
16:36	Wodin	Chouser: Thanks. Bed time now, though. I'll send a bug report to the Google group tomorrow.
16:36	Chouser	Wodin: the program's not terrible at all.
16:36	Chouser	Wodin: ok, good night.
16:37	Wodin	Thanks for the help.
16:39	duck1123_	drewc: projecture was the best out of the names offered
16:48	blarf	(cond (let [mov (do-stuff)] mov... is that legal?
16:49	Chousuke	I don't see why not.
16:50	Chousuke	Though I can't think of a reason to do that.
16:53	lisppaste8	asken pasted "tictactoeAI" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70677
16:53	blarf	Chousuke ^^
16:53	blarf	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Key must be integer
16:54	Chouser	ah, you want a sort of cond-let
16:54	blarf	yes
16:55	Chousuke	blarf: oh, like that.
16:55	Chouser	clojure.contrib.cond has cond-let
16:55	blarf	it compiles fine
16:55	blarf	but i get a runtimeerror as shown above, first version works, second is the problem
16:57	Chousuke	in that case your "cond" test actually ends up being (assoc brd mov 3)
16:57	Chouser	blarf: cond still requires separate 'test' and 'expr' -- putting them both into a single 'let' won't work.
16:59	Chousuke	your code nests pretty deep
17:00	Chousuke	to me that usually is a sign that you should be looking for an alternate way to express what you want :)
17:00	blarf	yes, so how would you do?
17:01	gnuvince_	hi
17:04	nsinghal	;destucturing bind question
17:04	nsinghal	(def defaults {:a 1 :b 2})
17:04	nsinghal	(def args {:a 3})
17:04	nsinghal	(let [{:keys [a b]} (merge defaults args)] [a b]) >>> [3 2]
17:04	nsinghal	(defn test-fn [{:keys [a b] :or defaults}] [a b])
17:04	nsinghal	(test-fn args) >>> [3 nil]
17:04	nsinghal	How can i write a function where i can define the default values in a map?
17:04	gnuvince_	Chouser: can I borrow you for a few minutes?
17:04	Chouser	gnuvince_: you can try. :-)
17:06	Chouser	nsinghal: to use a var like that in a destructuring form probably requires a macro
17:06	Chouser	nsinghal: normally none of the pieces in a fn arg list are eval'ed
17:07	gnuvince_	Chouser: I wrote the second part of my comic fetcher tutorial. Can I interest you in reviewing language and code?
17:07	kotarak	then a macro doesn't help. The macro has no access to the value of a Var.
17:08	Chouser	kotarak: oh, I guess you're right, at least without doing the resolve stuff manually as rhickey discourages.
17:09	kotarak	right
17:09	Chouser	gnuvince_: perhaps later this evening.
17:09	nsinghal	thanks for answering - that make sense
17:10	gnuvince_	Chouser: sure. I'm in no hurry to post, but I like to make sure that what I post is accurate.
17:11	lisppaste8	chousuke annotated #70677 with "simplified (untested)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70677#1
17:11	Chousuke	blarf: ^^
17:12	Chousuke	actually, I wonder if the recur works
17:12	Chousuke	I'm not sure about multimethods
17:14	Chouser	Chousuke: that is interesting. I'd guess it recurs without going through dispatch again.
17:14	Chousuke	actually the (and mov is not needed either, since that's guaranteed to be non-nil
17:15	Chouser	yep, that's what it does.
17:16	Chousuke	the boolean operators are nice in that they return the actual value of the test instead of a boring boolean :)
17:18	Chousuke	so when you need to do "get foo, if not found, get bar, if not found, get something else" becomes just a nice (or (get-foo) (get-bar) :something-else)
17:27	blarf	Chou: thanks, nice. but lets say all those functions are expensive, does it evaluate them lazily or does it execute them all?
17:28	Chousuke	or returns the first thing that returns non-false
17:28	blarf	yes but will the functions be executed even if the first is true?
17:28	Chousuke	no
17:28	blarf	or that what u meant? it quites a ssoon as something is true?
17:28	Chousuke	yes.
17:29	Chousuke	try it yourself: (or nil 1 (println "oops"))
17:31	Chousuke	also (and (println "hello") (println "not-seen")) :) (println returns nil)
17:36	blarf	how do i get integer-division?
17:36	gnuvince_	quot
17:37	gnuvince_	(quote 4 3) => 1
17:37	gnuvince_	err
17:37	gnuvince_	(quot 4 3)
17:37	gnuvince_	sorry
17:40	Chousuke	hm
17:41	Chousuke	was there a function that takes a function and returns a lazy seq of ((f), (f), (f)...) ?
17:42	kotarak	maybe something like repeatedly?
17:42	Chousuke	ah, exactly that
17:42	Chousuke	I only tried repeat
17:46	blarf	but if find-move ir true and so id find-move 2, but the move is not valid, then it "backtracks" or takes next in the or thsat is true?
17:46	blarf	anyway it works
17:47	Chousuke	I'm assuming find-move only returns valid moves.
17:47	Chousuke	otherwise, that can end up in an infinite loop
17:49	Chousuke	if the first find-move doesn't find a valid move, it should return nil, in which case the second find-move is run
17:49	Chousuke	and if that doens't find a move, then one is generated
17:50	Chousuke	if the generation returns nil, your app should be crashing anyway :P
17:50	Chousuke	you could optimise it somewhat by looping the generation and valid-move? but simplicity first :)
18:00	blarf	the minlambda s using # only have one var right?
18:03	Chousuke	blarf: no. #(+ %1 %2) :)
18:03	Chousuke	blarf: you can't mix using just % and %n notation though.
18:06	johnwayner	Don't suppose anyone here uses Vista with GitHub?
18:06	johnwayner	I've got a fix for swank-clojure but can't get git to clone my fork
18:07	johnwayner	due to key file permission problems
18:09	MarkVolkmann	If I use (import '(java.util Date)) then I can create a Date object with (new Date) or (Date.).
18:09	MarkVolkmann	Can I create a Date object without doing an import by providing the full class name?
18:10	johnwayner	user> (java.util.Date.)
18:10	johnwayner	#<Date Tue Nov 18 17:09:08 CST 2008>
18:10	johnwayner	seems like it
18:14	gnuvince_	kotarak: (import '(java.util Date))
18:14	kotarak	I know, but (use 'foo.bar.baz), (require 'foo.bar.baz), but (import '(foo.bar Baz))
18:15	gnuvince_	kotarak: that would make importing more than one thing from a package longer
18:15	gnuvince_	(import '(java.io BufferedReader InputStreamReader))
18:15	gnuvince_	vs (import 'java.io.BufferedReader 'java.io.InputStreamReader)
18:16	kotarak	gnuvince_: ??? (require '(foo.bar baz frob)) (import '(foo.bar Baz Frob))
18:16	kotarak	import does not allow both forms, require and use do. Inconsistent.
18:20	StartsWithK	what is happening here, and why does this code work? http://pastebin.com/m18d128e2
18:21	albino	are use, require, and import effectively doing the same thing?
18:21	albino	why isn't there only one way to do that?
18:21	cooldude127	does use actually work with java classes?
18:21	cooldude127	isn't import the only one that does that?
18:22	kotarak	albino: require just loads a library, use "require"s a library and refers it in the namespace, import makes Java classes available.
18:22	cooldude127	there we go
18:23	kotarak	(require 'foo) => (foo/bar), (use 'foo) => (bar), (new foo.Bar) (import '(foo Bar)) => (new Bar)
18:24	cooldude127	kotarak: we need that in some docs somewhere
18:24	kotarak	(doc require), IIRC
18:24	cooldude127	oh
18:24	albino	hmm
18:25	albino	kotarak: thanks for the description
18:25	kotarak	np
18:28	Chousuke	StartsWithK: you're defining x a function that returns a function
18:29	cooldude127	#() creates one function
18:29	cooldude127	then the fn form creates another
18:29	Chousuke	the curious thing is using % as the parameter
18:29	StartsWithK	yes
18:29	Chousuke	I guess it's not captured by the #()
18:29	Chousuke	but the fn instead
18:30	StartsWithK	isn't that (fn [1] 1)
18:30	StartsWithK	and that should fail, but even so, why when called it return (inc 2) not (inc 1)
18:30	cooldude127	(def x (fn* [p1__1111] (fn [p1__1111] (inc p1__1111))))
18:30	cooldude127	is the macroexpansion
18:31	Chousuke	looks like the inner binding hides the outer one.
18:32	StartsWithK	so 1 is ignored and replaced with replaced with (gensym)?
18:32	cooldude127	evidently
18:34	Chousuke	the outer function binds the name p1_1111 to whatever, but the inner one rebinds it, and so the parameter passed to the outer function is never seen.
18:36	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/clojure/arithmetic-mean <-- arithmatic mean using reduce
18:38	StartsWithK	cooldude127, Chousuke thanks for explaining this, looked realy strange
18:41	cooldude127	no problem
18:41	cooldude127	if you have trouble with stuff like that again, this is what i did in the repl
18:41	cooldude127	(macroexpand '(def x #(fn [%] (inc %))))
18:41	cooldude127	that'll show you what's going on
20:00	cwyang	There are two basic styles of implementing such a construct: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70665
20:01	Chousuke	hm?
20:07	cooldude127	cwyang: what's this?
20:16	MarkVolkmann	How can I take a string like "one two" and get a collection containing the strings "one" and "two"?
20:17	Chouser	(.split "one two" " ")
20:17	MarkVolkmann	This is close. (split-with (fn [x] (not= x \space)) "one two")
20:17	cooldude127	i like chouser's :)
20:17	MarkVolkmann	Definitely! Thanks
20:17	cooldude127	uses the java string api
20:19	MarkVolkmann	How can I take a list of strings and get a single string that concatenates all the strings together with a space between each?
20:19	MarkVolkmann	I thought (str list) would do it, but no.
20:19	gnuvince_	Chouser: can I send you that link?
20:20	Chouser	gnuvince_: yes
20:20	hiredman	MarkVolkmann: maybe interpose
20:20	hiredman	then str
20:20	gnuvince_	Chouser: here or email?
20:20	Chouser	hiredman: thanks, I can never think of the word interpose
20:20	Chouser	(apply str (interpose " " ["one" "two" "three"]))
20:20	Chouser	There's also clojure.contrib.str-utils that has some of these
20:21	Chouser	gnuvince_: email I guess, and I'll reply with comments.
20:22	gnuvince_	Chouser: sent.
20:22	gnuvince_	Thanks
20:53	MarkVolkmann	I'm confused about how to use things in clojure-contrib. Suppose I want to use the str-join function in str-utils. I start with (require 'clojure.contrib.str-utils). What else do I need to do to make the str-join function known in the current namespace?
20:53	vagif	Hello, anyone using compojure web framework ?
20:54	Chouser	if you say (require '[clojure.contrib.str-utils :as util]), then you can say (util/str-join ...)
20:54	Chouser	or (require '[clojure.contrib.str-utils :only (str-join)]), and (str-join ...)
20:56	vagif	compojure comes with jetty, but i want to integrate it into my existing application which is on tomcat.
20:56	vagif	anyone done that ?
20:56	Chouser	MarkVolkmann: sorry, that's (use '[clojure.contrib.str-utils :only (str-join)])
20:57	Chouser	vagif: I haven't, sorry. I haven't used compojure yet, but I think that question has come up
20:58	Chouser	vagif: did you search the clojure and compojure google groups?
20:58	vagif	yes i searched both groups
20:58	Chouser	ok, well I guess your best bet would be to ask there.
21:18	blbrown	pjb3: did you just twitter me
21:18	pjb3	blbrown: I did
21:18	blbrown	hehe
21:19	pjb3	You said you bought the Clojure book, that means you are worth following :)
21:19	blbrown	I got the beta PDF, apparently, there are a lot of sections missing
21:32	candera	Stu should have Beta 2 of the book out before too long
21:32	candera	Presumably you'll get an updated copy when he does - no idea how that works.
21:32	candera	Although I suspect that even Beta 2 will still not have every chapter completed.
21:33	blbrown	the first part is all I need anyway. I got a good first 100 pages or so.
21:37	gnuvince_	hmmm
21:37	gnuvince_	Steve Yegge mentioned Clojure in his latest blog post.
21:37	gnuvince_	Do you think that's good or bad?
21:37	Chouser	how could it be bad?
21:38	albino	was he comparint it to NBL?
21:38	albino	s/comparint/comparing
21:38	gnuvince_	albino: no, he just mentioned it in passing in his Ejacs post
21:38	cooldude127	yeah i saw that
21:38	cooldude127	i think what he said was mildly positive
21:38	hiredman	it's about time he mentioned it, it seems like it should be right up his alley, dynamic and on the jvm
21:38	cooldude127	he's still in love with javascript tho
21:39	hiredman	yeah, well, ok
21:39	pjb3	It's funny about Steve Yegge, I actually first heard about Clojure from people commenting on his blog
21:40	cooldude127	hehe
21:40	pjb3	Might have been the NBL post, I just remember a lot of comments about Scala and Clojure
21:40	pjb3	I hadn't heard of either of those languages until then
21:40	Chouser	But Yegge doesn't actually like JavaScript. He likes what he's planning on turning JavaScript into.
21:40	cooldude127	what is he turning it into?
21:41	gnuvince_	NBL
21:41	cooldude127	that's a tad abstract
21:41	Chouser	Because I agreed with so much of what he said, I started trying to do projecteuler problems in Rhino. It was terrible. He's extended it in a bunch of ways.
21:41	gnuvince_	I think he really liked EcmaScript 4 before it was gutted
21:41	cooldude127	oh
21:42	gnuvince_	Rhino was not fun
21:42	cooldude127	lol
21:43	gnuvince_	With Clojure, I've had nothing but fun :)
21:43	hiredman	mmmmm
21:43	albino	well from reading his blog posts it was JS2 he liked
21:44	gnuvince_	albino: JS2 is EcmaScript 4
21:44	albino	gnuvince_: as the different browser vendors see it or what?
21:46	johnwayner	I forked Jochu's swank-clojure and patched it to work with SVN 1110:
21:46	johnwayner	http://github.com/johnwayner/swank-clojure/tree/master
21:47	johnwayner	I had to hack on it a bit, so hopefully it works.
21:47	cooldude127	johnwayner: what has changed in 1110 from, say, 1107?
21:48	cooldude127	cuz i have SVN1107 and swank-clojure working together
21:48	johnwayner	The removal of gen-and-load*
21:48	cooldude127	shittttt
21:48	cooldude127	that sounds important ;)
21:48	johnwayner	moved into (ns (:gen-class
21:48	cooldude127	oh
21:48	johnwayner	so yeah, "removal" not the right word I guess :)
21:48	cooldude127	FAT ASS API CHANGE
21:48	cooldude127	is more like it ;)
21:49	johnwayner	This is a crazy time.... should be pretty much smooth sailing soon.
21:49	cooldude127	hopefully
21:50	Chouser	I hope doto gets broken soon too.
21:50	cooldude127	in what way?
21:50	mattrepl	hmm, is there a write-up on what replaces gen-and-load-class post-AOT compilation?
21:51	cooldude127	mattrepl: apparently it's part of namespaces now?
21:51	johnwayner	mattrepl: this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/70665
21:51	johnwayner	mattrepl: and the irc log from earlier today
21:51	hiredman	crazy
21:51	mattrepl	thanks
21:52	hiredman	defn- -main
21:52	hiredman	weird looking
21:52	cooldude127	yeah wtf?
21:52	Chouser	why would you make main private?
21:53	cooldude127	i'm not totally sure i'm on board with this
21:53	Chouser	cooldude127: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/d668c590c6cf982b
21:53	cooldude127	Chouser: k i remember that thread
21:54	johnwayner	Chouser: perhaps it's private in the namespace but not the class? Dunno
21:54	johnwayner	I don't presume to know better than rhickey :)
21:55	Chouser	oh, yeah, I didn't notice that in his code. weird.
21:55	cooldude127	yeah this code needs mucho examination
21:56	johnwayner	Any elispers know how to avoid this nasty change? http://github.com/johnwayner/swank-clojure/commit/8f567775360425475df494520083f9023ffe1af1
22:00	mattrepl	johnwayner: did you already fix the defexception macro in swank-clojure?
22:00	johnwayner	mattrepl: I removed it
22:01	johnwayner	mattrepl: I just added the one class that was being created as a .clj file and compiled it in swank-clojure.el
22:02	johnwayner	mattrepl: This is probably just a hack to get it working. It doesn't really seem correct.
22:02	mattrepl	that's such a hassle just to give a typed exception
22:02	mattrepl	nod and I meant the new namespaces -> classes, not your change
22:03	johnwayner	yeah, I have a feeling we are quite done with changes in the area :)
22:03	johnwayner	are not
22:06	mattrepl	thanks for making it work, now I can get back to thesis writing. =)
22:06	johnwayner	np. :)
22:14	dms	hello..anybody know how to set up slime file name translations for connecting with a remote swank server? (or is it even possible currently?)
22:16	drewc	dms: see segv's annotation here : http://paste.lisp.org/display/32153
22:16	johnwayner	dms: You want to edit the remote files via Tramp?
22:19	dms	johnwayner: yes. i could connect slime to a remote swank but M-. doesn't work. I saw the reference about tramp via google, but didn't really know how to set it up.
22:19	dms	drewc: thanks. I will try it out.
22:20	drewc	dms i have made it work in CL, and it's all on the elisp side AFAIK, so it should just-work.
22:32	dms	hmm.. i am connecting to my remote machine via a ssh tunnel, so i really want slime to connect to a local ip and port but still do file name translations.. this is going to take a while.
22:34	johnwayner	dms: maybe you can trick slime by putting an entry in you /etc/hosts that points to localhost
22:36	dms	good idea. will try.
22:40	wwmorgan	I just downloaded svn head and compiled it. When I ran the jar, it yelled at me because Compiler.pushNS is package-private and clojure.core was trying to access it. Making pushNS public solved the problem, apparently. Comments?
22:40	johnwayner	wwmorgan: did you clean?
22:40	wwmorgan	possibly nvm. Turns out I wasn't at head
22:41	wwmorgan	and everything works. Crisis averted!