#clojure – 2008-11-05

2008-11-05

03:52	Lau_of_DK	Mornings gents
03:53	Lau_of_DK	I have not yet tried Clojure web-capabilities for servlets and such, how much does one benefit from its concurrency features in that regard?
04:17	Lau_of_DK	Or: Where would one benefit the most from applying Clojure on the web ?
04:26	cgrand	Lau_of_DK: Comet?
04:29	Lau_of_DK	I'll look into it
11:06	duck1123	does anyone ever from time to time get the error: Exception in thread "Read Loop Thread"
11:10	duck1123	yes, this is in inferior-lisp when starting slime
11:10	duck1123	it doesn't appear do cause any problems, it's just odd
11:11	Chouser	sorry, I haven't seen it
11:23	drewr	How do I prn from a different thread?
11:23	drewr	Does out get mucked with?
11:24	drewr	I'm trying to debug something that happens in a send. I guess I could throw and look at agent-errors.
11:27	wwmorgan	drewr: You could also do a (.println System/out "message")
11:30	kwatford	Hrm. That doesn't seem to work either.
11:30	Chouser	works for me: (send-off (agent nil) (prn :hi)
11:30	Chouser	)
11:31	Chouser	oh, scratch that.
11:32	Chouser	proves nothing
11:32	Chouser	ok, this works: (send-off (agent :hi) #(do (Thread/sleep 1000) (println %)))
11:35	drewr	Also, what's the diff between send and send-off?
11:36	drewr	Chouser: That doesn't print anything in my REPL.
11:36	Chouser	send uses a pool of threads sized based on your processor core count
11:37	Chouser	so if you do a send on a function that blocks for IO or sleeps or something, you're gumming up the works.
11:37	Chouser	send-off uses a thread from a pool that grows as needed, so it's ok to block.
11:38	Chouser	drewr: odd. you're at a regular terminal REPL?
11:38	drewr	No :-)
11:38	drewr	That's probably why.
11:38	kwatford	doesn't seem to need the sleep in emacs. I was just forgetting to make the lambda take an argument.
11:39	Chouser	the sleep isn't required, just makes is clearer whats going on.
11:40	Chouser	Without it I tend to see:
11:40	Chouser	#<:hiclojure.lang.Agent@1a422f6
11:40	Chouser	>
11:41	kwatford	ah, so that's why the raw repl gave me #<clojure.lang.Agent@71537:hi>
11:42	duck1123	hmm, I saw it as this: user=> #=(clojure.lang.Agent. "clojure.lang.Agent@36db4bcf")
11:42	duck1123	user=> :hi
11:42	duck1123
12:48	kwatford	hrm. Why does for not support use of :when and :while at the same time?
12:49	wwmorgan	kwatford: you can combine them into a :while, right?
12:49	AWizzArd	Moin
12:51	kwatford	contrived example: (for [x (iterate inc 0) :when (even? x) :while (< x 10)] x)
12:51	kotarak	AWizzArd: hi wizz
12:53	kotarak	kwatford: Quick Hack(tm): (for [x (iterate inc 0) :when (even? x) y x :while (< y 10)] y) (not tested)
12:53	kwatford	IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from Integer
12:54	kotarak	kwatford: oops, (for [x (iterate inc 0) :when (even? x) y [x] :while (< y 10)] y)
12:54	kwatford	OutOfMemoryError
12:56	kotarak	(for [x (iterate inc 0) :while (< x 10) y [x] :when (even? y)] y)
12:56	kotarak	(0 2 4 6 8)
12:57	kwatford	There we go
13:04	sohail	you need the monstrous cl loop macro
13:04	sohail	:-D
13:05	kotarak	(take-while #(< % 10) (filter even? (iterate inc 0))) should also work, no?
13:05	kwatford	heh. It's been a while since I touched CL, but I do distinctly remember avoiding loop
13:06	kwatford	kotarak: Yes, but I was more wondering "why doesn't this work?" than "how can I make it work?"
13:08	sohail	kwatford, it's an acquired (dis)taste
14:16	Lau_of_DK	Evening all!
14:16	Lau_of_DK	And a good one at that :)
14:20	AWizzArd	hi Lau
15:10	Lau_of_DK	Is (remove) something new? I dont seem to have it
15:10	Chouser	newish, yeah
15:10	kotarak	relatively new
15:10	Chouser	Oct 16
15:11	Lau_of_DK	Hmm
15:11	Lau_of_DK	I downloaded yesterday
15:11	Lau_of_DK	Is the for SVN users only?
15:11	kotarak	I only use SVN.
15:11	kotarak	Unless told otherwise by Rich.
15:11	Lau_of_DK	got the svn adress handy ?
15:12	kwatford	Top right corner of the webpage
15:12	kotarak	I use the hg mirror
15:12	duck1123	http://clojure.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/
15:13	duck1123	there's a git mirror too if that's more your cup of tea
15:14	abrooks	duck1123: rhickey's still using SVN on sf.net for now.
15:15	abrooks	duck1123: http://clojure.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clojure/
15:16	Lau_of_DK	What is 'Cannot execute mojo resources' ?
15:16	duck1123	hmm... I guess you're right. I didn't bother to check the repository, I just knew there was a google code page
15:19	Lau_of_DK	As I remember, its just
15:19	Lau_of_DK	svn co https://clojure.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/clojure clojure
15:19	Lau_of_DK	mvn install
15:19	Lau_of_DK	right ?
15:20	kotarak	I use ant
15:20	wwmorgan	ant
15:20	duck1123	just 'ant' is fine
15:20	Lau_of_DK	trying
15:20	Lau_of_DK	Success
15:20	Lau_of_DK	Thanks
15:22	danlarkin	duck1123: saw my clojure-json eh?
15:24	duck1123	yeah, I just started watching it. I planned on looking through it a little later
15:25	duck1123	how hard would it be to translate clojure code into json?
15:25	duck1123	it would be interesting to store code in couchdb
15:32	danlarkin	duck1123: I only have a clojure->json encoder in there right now
15:32	danlarkin	no json->clojure yet
15:33	duck1123	I just realized that github won't show a project if it's listed as a fork of another project
15:33	duck1123	that's kind of annoying
15:34	danlarkin	translating code into json would be a little difficult, since functions are closures on their environment
15:34	danlarkin	I could use some help with my encoder, actually, it's a little slow for my taste
15:34	blackdog	what's the link to the clojure-json?
15:35	Chouser	json (the formal spec) doesn't allow functions either.
15:35	Chouser	do you mean clojure code to javascript code?
15:35	danlarkin	Chouser: but it does allow lists :)
15:35	Chouser	yes it does. and maps and strings
15:36	Chouser	oh... I see what you're saying.
15:36	danlarkin	blackdog: my clojure-json is located at http://github.com/danlarkin/clojure-json/tree/master
15:36	blackdog	thanks
15:37	Chouser	but how would you differentiate between vectors and lists?
15:38	duck1123	you would probably have to do it as (vec 1 2 3)
15:38	danlarkin	Chouser: Hmmmmm, not sure, maybe you wouldn't be able to
15:38	danlarkin	duck1123: ah yes, or that
15:39	duck1123	danlarkin: I'm curious, have you tried using org.json.JSONObject in clojure?
15:40	drewr	duck1123: I have, and it works OK.
15:40	drewr	It doesn't like j.u.Date very much.
15:42	danlarkin	duck1123: I have not. I wanted to be able to use clojure datastructures natively. Also I wanted to program a json interface my self as a learning exercise
15:43	duck1123	nothing wrong with that
15:44	danlarkin	I have a branch that uses Writer objects instead of strings, http://github.com/danlarkin/clojure-json/tree/writer
15:45	danlarkin	I have more on my TODO list regarding that, I need to add flushes so it doesn't blow up the heap
15:46	Chouser	danlarkin: might be a good candidate for multimethods
15:55	danlarkin	Chouser: what might be?
15:55	Chouser	your json printer
15:55	danlarkin	instead of a cond?
15:55	Chouser	yeah
15:56	danlarkin	wouldn't the multimethod dispatch have to do a cond anyway?
15:57	Chouser	looks like you could dispatch on class
15:57	Chouser	then match Boolean, nil, String, Number, etc.
15:58	Chouser	maybe it wouldn't be any better than what you've got.
16:01	danlarkin	I do have some performance inefficiencies, I don't think cond is one of them though
16:01	drewr	I thought there was an (into-map {:foo :bar}) now. What am I thinking of?
16:02	drewr	Don't Clojure's maps now implement j.u.HashMap?
16:02	drewr	Er, j.u.Map?
16:05	wwmorgan	drewr: yes. (into {} m) will take a java Map m and return a clojure Map
16:05	drewr	wwmorgan: I want to go the other way.
16:05	wwmorgan	You get that for free: (instance? java.util.Map {}) returns true
16:06	danlarkin	(instance? java.util.Map {}) == false for me
16:07	wwmorgan	I'm on svn head. I don't know when the change was added
16:08	duck1123	this came up yesterday
16:08	duck1123	sometime early last month
16:09	danlarkin	I'm on an older checkout
16:09	danlarkin	haven't updated in a while
16:09	duck1123	Oct 6
16:11	danlarkin	the real problem is that apply walks the entire list it's passed, so I'm trying to rewrite everything not to use apply
16:11	duck1123	I thought apply was lazy
16:13	danlarkin	http://blog.danlarkin.org/2008/11/apply-is-not-lazy/
16:13	kotarak	what would thatt help? Knowing the source is a smell. You should rely on the interface, not the implementation.
16:13	Lau_of_DK	Guys - Is there a non-nil?, a shorter version of (not (nil? x y z))
16:15	kotarak	some
16:15	kotarak	or maybe every?
16:15	duck1123	kotarak: sometimes it helps to see the code to realize something that is not obvious from the documentation
16:15	kotarak	duck1123: and which might suddenly change.
16:16	Chouser	apply is lazy. str is not
16:17	Lau_of_DK	I hardly think 'apply' is as lazy as Chouser...
16:17	duck1123	the implementation might change, but the behavior generally does not.
16:17	Chouser	hardly anything is as lazy as me
16:18	duck1123	There needs to be Clojure shirts that say "I get more done when I'm lazy" or some such
16:18	Chouser	(defn first2 [a b & c] [a b])
16:19	kotarak	duck1123 haha, that's good. Maybe the Haskell guys have it already.
16:19	Chouser	(first2 1 2 3 4) -> [1 2]
16:19	Chouser	If apply weren't lazy, this would never return: (apply first2 (iterate inc 1))
16:19	danlarkin	Chouser: apply is lazy? it looks like the spread helper function isn't though
16:20	Chouser	but in fact it returns [1 2]
16:20	kotarak	proof by counter-example
16:21	danlarkin	kotarak: you're right, it isn't a proof at all, but certainly good enough to prove me wrong
16:22	Chouser	spread is eager for the required args of the func you're applying
16:22	Chouser	...it has to be to match Java calling conventions, I think.
16:23	Chouser	but once the required args are met, the "rest" arg is left as a (possibly lazy) seq
16:24	Chouser	but str needs to build a non-lazy string, so it has to consume all its args, whether the seq it's pulling from is lazy or not.
16:25	Chouser	and by the way, (apply str (range 10e6))
16:26	duck1123	hmm, in that case, would it be better to work with seqs of chars until you're ready for output?
16:26	Chouser	works fine for me, though (apply str (interpose "," (range 10e6))) does not
16:26	scottj	I often want to link to some identity, not copy it, in a sort of relational database manner. Like bob has his details and one of them is his hometown and that hometown has it's own details. Is the recommended method to make bob and his hometown each refs and then include the hometown ref in bob's map but not @ it until I want to follow the link?
16:28	Chouser	scottj: you want to be able to update the town's details and see those changes for all peoplewho live there?
16:30	scottj	Chouser: yeah
16:30	danlarkin	Chouser: so would applying to a lazy-consumer make sense? a function that takes [x & ys] and then uses (loop [more ys] ... (recur (rest ys)))? Or is that not really helping anything
16:30	scottj	Chouser: so either I use some primary key (name, id number) and look that up, or I link with a ref
16:30	Chouser	scottj: I think using a ref sounds reasonable.
16:31	Chouser	you still might what the town refs all in one map (or set?) just for sanity.
16:32	Chouser	danlarkin: generally using loop/recur like that means it's not a lazy-consumer.
16:33	danlarkin	Chouser: well I do have to make a string out of it, I just want to do it in a way that doesn't fill up the heap
16:33	Chouser	danlarkin: you brought that up the other day, and it's been troubling me.
16:34	Chouser	I don't understand yet how (apply str (range 10e6))
16:34	Chouser	can runs so quickly with so little memory impact
16:34	Chouser	...when using interpose in the kills my memory and CPU
16:35	duck1123	later folks
16:35	danlarkin	duck1123: bye bye
16:35	duck1123	driving home
16:35	danlarkin	Chouser: how long does (time (dorun [(apply str (range 10e6))])) take for you?
16:36	Chouser	"Elapsed time: 2425.807705 msecs"
16:36	danlarkin	and can you run (time (dorun [(apply str (range 10e7))])) or does it blow your heap
16:37	Chouser	OutOfMemoryError
16:37	danlarkin	I know what you mean though... interpose should be lazy
16:38	abrooks	It's really interleave that should be lazy, I think.
16:39	wwmorgan	Chouser: what about 20e6? You're probably just bumping up against your jvm heap size right?
16:39	danlarkin	is it possible that interleave isn't? looks like it uses map...
16:39	Chouser	danlarkin: with 10e7, you're trying to allocate something like a 1GB string
16:40	Chouser	interleave claims to be lazy
16:40	abrooks	danlarkin: Right. interleave claimes to be lazy but it doesn't appear to be.
16:41	wwmorgan	even if interleave were lazy, we wouldn't see it because str is not lazy
16:41	Chouser	interpose acts lazy (take 10 (interpose "," (lazy-cat (range 10) (print "oops"))))
16:42	Chouser	I don't think it's a laziness issue. It might have to do with something hanging onto the head of the seq, but I'm not sure.
16:43	wwmorgan	chouser: you mean why does (apply str (range 10e6)) work but (apply str (interpose "," (range 10e6))) blow up?
16:43	Chouser	wwmorgan: yes
16:44	wwmorgan	I think it's just that you're hitting your JVM's max heap size. The String you're trying to build is too big
16:44	Chouser	I don't think so.
16:45	Chouser	without interpose I see very little extra memory usage, and I get a result in under 3 seconds.
16:45	Chouser	with interpose, I would expect a string that's maybe 10% larger and shouldn't take more than maybe double the time to produce.
16:46	Chouser	but with interpose I actually see my memory usage climb steadily and noresults for many seconds -- I've never let it finish as I fear for my other processes. :-)
16:47	wwmorgan	what happens when you do (apply str (interpose "," (range 10e5))) ?
16:48	Chouser	climbing memory usage, but a good result in about 3 seconds.
16:57	Lau_of_DK	Throw me a bone guys
16:57	Lau_of_DK	(def f "test")
16:58	Lau_of_DK	(re-seq #"test" seq) works
16:58	Lau_of_DK	(re-seq #f seq) does not of course
16:58	Lau_of_DK	but how do I make it work ?
16:59	kotarak	Is there something along the lines of (new java.util.Regex f)?
16:59	Chouser	(re-seq (java.util.regex.Pattern/compile f) seq)
16:59	Lau_of_DK	uuh fancy Chouser
16:59	Lau_of_DK	How do you come up with all this stuff?
16:59	Lau_of_DK	I mean... its almost like you and Rich have a secret book
16:59	Chouser	But don't use "seq" as a local name, since it's a clojure/seq (function)
16:59	Chouser	Use the Source, Lau..K.
17:00	Lau_of_DK	Haha :)
17:00	Lau_of_DK	Thanks alot guys
17:00	Chouser	and be careful building that string
17:03	Chouser	danlarkin: are you going to update your blog, or am i going to have to leave a comment?
17:03	danlarkin	Chouser: you'll have to leave a comment, I'm at work now :)
17:03	Chouser	hmph.
17:03	Lau_of_DK	Chouser, , dont worry, I'll leave it totally in the hands of the competent user
17:07	danlarkin	so what's a lazy way to consume (interpose "," lst)? And If I do consume lazily and use a Writer and flush() it every time that'd cut down on the memory usage, wouldn't it?
17:08	Chouser	I haven't been able to figure out where the memory usage is coming from.
17:08	wwmorgan	I have an idea
17:09	wwmorgan	str uses a StringBuilder. StringBuilder maintains an internal buffer. If you append to a StringBuilder over the buffer, it has to reallocate the whole thing
17:13	wwmorgan	but simply consuming an interpose doesn't use up memory: (reduce (fn [_ _] 1) (interpose "," (range 10e6)))
17:28	lisppaste8	danlarkin pasted "consuming interpose" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69773
17:31	wwmorgan	I don't think StringWriter's flush method clears its buffer
17:32	wwmorgan	so you're still trying to retain (range 10e7) in memory
17:34	lisppaste8	wwmorgan annotated #69773 with "Doesn't consume memory" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69773#1
17:40	danlarkin	wwmorgan: wow look at that, it doesn't. Hrmph, so how do I do this?
17:41	rhickey	danlarkin: do what?
17:41	AWizzArd	wb
17:41	danlarkin	election went smoothly I see
17:41	danlarkin	:)
17:41	wwmorgan	danlarkin: the function that you call needs consume a constant amount of memory no matter how many times you call it
17:42	danlarkin	rhickey: I'm writing a json encoder and (apply str (range 10e6)) is blowing the heap, but I need a way to consume huge lists like that
17:43	wwmorgan	if you're sending it over a network, then your function call wraps the network message-sending interface
17:49	rhickey	danlarkin: went well, yes, thanks - you can reduce with a StringBuilder
17:54	danlarkin	rhickey: is a stringbuilder efficient? doesn't it have to discard and double its buffer every time it fills up? or is that the best way to do it anyway
17:58	Chousuke	it's difficult to be more efficient when you need a dynamically growing chunk of contiguous memory
17:59	wwmorgan	danlarkin: do you need the whole String in memory at once?
18:00	danlarkin	wwmorgan: no
18:01	wwmorgan	what do you want to split the String up into?
18:03	danlarkin	wwmorgan: well like I said it's for a JSON library, so I assume it should be a Writer if it can't be a string, since then the user of the library can pass in a StringWriter or FileWriter or whatever
18:03	lisppaste8	wwmorgan annotated #69773 with "Splits the String up into Strings of 1024 characters each" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69773#2
18:04	wwmorgan	oh, if the user is passing in the writer, then it's his own fault if he runs out of memory
18:05	lisppaste8	wwmorgan annotated #69773 with "slightly better" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69773#3
18:08	wwmorgan	for your tests, just pass in a Writer that discards all its inputs
18:13	SnowBuddy	when I say (loop ... (recur)), I get an ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException. can somebody explain why that happens and what exactly loop..recur is supposed to be doing behind the scenes? the documentation suggests that the arguments are optional (0 or more), so I figured I could do something like that
18:15	danlarkin	wwmorgan: partition throws out any remainder, (doseq cs (partition 3 (interpose "," (range 10))) (print (apply str cs))) prints 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,
18:15	wwmorgan	danlarkin: right, so you'd need your own partition that didn't do that
18:15	gnuvince_	SnowBuddy: try: (loop [] ... (recur))
18:16	lisppaste8	danlarkin annotated #69773 with "invocation target exception" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69773#4
18:16	danlarkin	sorry if I'm being thick-skulled... maybe there's something I'm missing
18:23	lisppaste8	wwmorgan annotated #69773 with "try this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69773#5
18:26	SnowBuddy	gnuvince: that worked, thanks. looking at the documentation, i see now that the brackets are required :P
18:28	rhickey	danlarkin: if you are not accumulating in memory, then you must be either reducing your input or doing output as you go, so (dorun (map do-a-bit stuff-too-large-for-memory)) should work
18:41	gnuvince_	SnowBuddy: happy to help
18:43	SnowBuddy	now i just need to figure the rest of this stuff out ;p
18:44	Kerris4	I just bought the beta pdf of Stuart Holloway's Clojure book from Pragmatic Programmers :D
18:44	Kerris4	ohboyohboyohboy
18:44	SnowBuddy	how is it?
18:45	Kerris4	hang on, I've just downloaded it
18:45	Kerris4	:P
18:46	SnowBuddy	heh
18:47	Kerris4	I'm no Lisp/Clojure veteran but a brief scan shows that it is suitable for people coming from a Java background
18:47	Kerris4	I'd use this to get my classmates into Clojure as the school teaches Java
18:48	SnowBuddy	i'm coming from a C/C++/C# background, so i may pick that one up
18:49	Kerris4	Have you spent any amount of time with Lisp or Scheme or Haskell before, SnowBuddy?
18:50	SnowBuddy	I've played briefly with CL before discovering Clojure a few days ago
18:52	danlarkin	rhickey, wwmorgan: thanks for your help, I've gotta drive home now
18:53	danlarkin	oh, wwmorgan left :-/
18:54	Kerris4	I can't give a firm recommendation on the book as I'm of the opinion that you could learn a lot of Clojure for free by following Stuart Holloway's port of Practical Common Lisp to Clojure :P
18:55	SnowBuddy	i could learn a lot of Clojure by reading code and browsing the documentation, but that's tedious when just starting out ;)
18:56	Kerris4	true, and with his port you can just type in the code and watch things work
18:56	Kerris4	http://blog.thinkrelevance.com/2008/9/16/pcl-clojure
18:56	Kerris4	if you didn't know already, Practical Common Lisp is free
18:56	Kerris4	http://gigamonkeys.com/book/
18:56	SnowBuddy	yea, i read a bit of it when I was looking at CL
19:04	kwatford	The book is missing several chapters as of yet, so I wouldn't hand it to someone wanting to learn just yet. But should probably be much better when it's actually done ;)
19:24	hsuh	whois jao
21:29	dakrone	I apologize in advance if this is a silly question, but can someone tell me why http://paste.lisp.org/display/69785 hangs when I run it from the command line?
21:29	dakrone	I don't quite understand how to use agents correctly
21:38	Chouser	dakrone: those files exist?
21:39	dakrone	Chouser, yep
21:39	dakrone	I get:
21:39	dakrone	? clj ciosim.clj
21:39	dakrone	file3
21:39	dakrone	Reading file: file1
21:39	dakrone	Read bytes: 24
21:39	dakrone	and then it hangs until I ctrl+c
21:44	Chouser	dakrone: It doesn't hang for me, I get: java.lang.Exception: Agent has errors (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
21:45	rhickey	Chouser: did you consider extending RestFn for callable defstruct ?
21:45	dakrone	rhickey, huhwhatnow?
21:46	Chouser	rhickey: heh. nope. I guess I'm out of my depth?
21:46	dakrone	Chouser, just tried it in the REPL instead of from the file, it doesn't hang, is there a reason why it would hang when being run as a script instead?
21:46	rhickey	might make it easier - I didn't look too closely yet
21:48	Chouser	rhickey: if the goal is acceptible, I'll look at it.
21:49	Chouser	dakrone: you were trying it with Script?
21:50	dakrone	Chouser, yep
21:52	dakrone	are there any good super-basic threading tutorials for Clojure, other than the ant simulation?
21:58	rhickey	Chouser: yes, sure
22:06	Chouser	dakrone: I don't know why it's hanging.
22:07	dakrone	Chouser, okay, I appreciate you trying though :)
22:07	dakrone	thanks
22:09	Chouser	dakrone: are you getting the agent errors when you runin the repl?
22:09	dakrone	Chouser, nope, no errors are showing up
22:10	dakrone	latest version of Clojure from svn also
22:13	Chouser	well, I can replicate it here, but I don't know of and can't see any difference between Script and Repl that would cause this.
22:14	dakrone	hmm, that's very strange
22:20	dakrone	hmmm....interesting
22:21	dakrone	OSX 10.5, java 5, 32-bit gives no errors, java 6, 64-bit gives the Agent has errors error
22:41	bradbev	is there an easy way to map from a java method name like user.baz__3364 to a clojure symbol user/baz? Obviously I could drop the __3364, but I'd prefer the correct way to do it rather than a heuristic.
22:44	sohail	Chouser, if clojure was not a lisp-1 you could have done it quite easily ;-)
22:46	Chouser	sohail: hm? what?
22:46	Chouser	bradbev: you only have the method name, not the actual var or fn?
22:46	sohail	making struct callable?
22:47	Chouser	sohail: oh.
22:47	Chouser	it wasn't too hard, but I leaned heavily on vim macros. RestFn is probably a better way.
22:47	bradbev	Chouser: I have the stack trace that comes out at the slime repl. I figured I could make a little patch that would look up the stack entries & try to make them look like native Clojure names
22:49	Chouser	bradbev: can you inspect the stack object itself, maybe get to the class objects, rather than munging the printed text?
22:51	bradbev	Chouser: I think so, but StackTraceElement.getClassName for (defn foo) gives me user.foo__1234. So I guess that Clojure gensyms up the internal java name. That way you can redefine functions & keep the old def in a closure
23:08	kwatford	brabev: doesn't look to me like the function object/class keeps that information. I guess you could parse the name and then check that the guessed symbol holds the function. Unless it didn't come from defn.
23:10	bradbev	kwatford: yeah, I can't see it either. Oh well, heuristic it is.
23:19	sohail	Chouser, couldn't you also do the "make struct callable" by making struct a macro? (defstruct foo ...) -> (def foo-struct ...) (defn foo [...] ...)
23:19	sohail	and then the make-struct macro appends -struct to the symbol. anyway just a thought :-)
23:23	Chouser	Or just http://tinyurl.com/5r42n6