#clojure – 2016-04-01

2016-04-01

08:57	j-pb	Hey does anybody know why transit-clj has the api choice of creating a writer object from a output stream? After browsing though the code it seems that it resets everything (caches) with every write anyways. So why not simply have a write method take an object and a stream? :/
09:39	sdegutis	Hmm, I did not anticipate this.
09:40	sdegutis	Good morning, you /people/.
09:42	prohobo	dont "you people" me
09:42	prohobo	you racist
09:43	sdegutis	Well if you weren't sitting there, acting all human and everything...
09:43	sdegutis	So this is the thing.
09:44	sdegutis	I came up with (defprotocol WebFeature (routes[this]) (css[this]) (schema[this])) which is cool cuz that's all my app is made of.
09:44	sdegutis	But I didn't anticipate that the Cart web-feature's (css) method is like 91 lines long.
09:44	sdegutis	And the (routes) is around like 350 lines long.
09:45	sdegutis	So that got pretty ugly pretty quick.
09:45	sdegutis	Most of it is the single Hiccup-returning function though, which is like 200 lines by itself.
09:49	prohobo	are you asking for help restructuring your code?
09:50	sdegutis	I'm just pondering out loud.
09:51	sdegutis	I guess, all in all, having a fully-featured website Cart in only 550 lines of code is pretty reasonable.
09:51	sdegutis	It just gives me pause that it's all in one giant-seeming file.
09:51	sdegutis	And most of it is inside a single defrecord.
09:52	ToxicFrog	Yank the hiccup into its own file? That's what I've been doing -- one-liners end up routes, then they turn into five-liners and end up as separate functions, then they get longer than that and get their own modules.
09:53	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: Oh, you just reminded me of Modules! Such a better name than Feature. Thanks, I'll use that.
09:53	sdegutis	I never liked the name of (defprotocol Feature (routes[this]) (css[this]) (schema[this])) in the web namespace.
09:54	sdegutis	Feature always seemed too, um, weird.
09:54	sdegutis	Module makes much more sense here.
09:55	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: But more to your point, we've had view functions in their own file, e.g. (ns myapp.web.view.cart), for the past 3 years.
09:55	ToxicFrog	What's the 200 lines of hiccup doing in the routes, then?
09:55	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: I felt that this separation was a bit excessive and cumbersome, and too often inconvenient.
09:56	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: So I've been "inlining" the view functions lately. In most cases, the views are much smaller, and are made up of Hiccup components created via function calls, so it's not so bad.
09:56	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: But in this case, the Cart really has almost no reusable pieces, so it's this giant lump of Hiccup, kind of an outlier in this codebase.
09:57	ToxicFrog	sdegutis: yeah, at least in my case I'd definitely pull that into a separate function and almost certainly into its own file even if that's not the norm.
09:57	ToxicFrog	Something that large in the middle of routes is going to require a context switch to read it anyways.
09:57	sdegutis	Although, I could probably make the Cart and Order model data structures match, and then combine their view-component functions.
09:58	mgaare	schema is, what, db schema?
09:58	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: there's very little context switch in Clojure, that's the beauty
09:58	sdegutis	mgaare: a custom data-based layer describing Datomic install-attribute transactions
09:58	ToxicFrog	sdegutis: regardless of the syntax used to present it, for me that's a context switch from "reading routing information" to "reading HTML"
09:58	sdegutis	mgaare: e.g. [[:one :instant :user/last-login-date], [:many :ref :cart/items]]
09:59	mgaare	ok
09:59	sdegutis	(that's fake data of course)
09:59	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: then yeah I agree somewhat
10:00	sdegutis	ToxicFrog: but in places where the Hiccup is like 5 lines, it makes sense to keep them in the route function itself, because they're so closely related -- when they were separate functions in the past, it just felt unnecessarily decoupled, kind of like separating the yolk from the eggwhite
10:00	ToxicFrog	sdegutis: yeah, that's fair
10:00	sdegutis	Meaning, sure, they're different things, but they go together so perfectly
10:00	sdegutis	But yeah, 200 lines is a bit much.
10:01	sdegutis	I'm more likely though to just extract the things that make up the cart Hiccup into their own functions, and have it be smaller that way.
10:01	sdegutis	It's much nicer to have a single line saying (item-list) than a [:table ...] that's 100 lines in itself.
10:05	sdegutis	amalloy_, justin_smith: are your intermediate namespace names singular or plural when given the choice?
10:06	sdegutis	Like, in "src/myapp/x/cart.clj", would x be 'modules' or 'module'?
10:19	justin_smith	sdegutis: only rarely plural, exceptions being things like my.lib.protocols (it defines all the protocols)
10:19	sdegutis	Ah, hmm.
10:19	justin_smith	or my.app.routers (defines all the routing data)
10:20	justin_smith	but if it is named after what it does and not the things it defines, then I avoid plurals
10:23	sdegutis	justin_smith: hmm, weird
10:23	sdegutis	justin_smith: not your comment, just, this whole situation
10:37	sdegutis	Hi.
10:39	visof	hi guys
10:39	visof	i have some image with some specific color region, can i filter the image which has this region?
10:39	visof	is there a good way to do this in clojure?
10:42	ridcully	isn't opencv the goto lib for stuff like this?
10:44	visof	ridcully, maybe i can do something simpler imagez can help in this?
10:44	visof	i'm going to not do complex image processing
10:44	justin_smith	visof: depends is "color of pixel" good enough, or does it have to have any corellation to what a real human would say is a color?
10:45	justin_smith	because color perception (the real kind) is complex and hard
10:45	justin_smith	visof: for example humans always infer shading, refraction, color of light source, and still know the "real" color of the thing
10:48	sdegutis	Is there a way to tell Cider not to ever eval a certain namespace on cider-refresh?
10:49	justin_smith	sdegutis: if it uses tools.namespace/refresh, that has whitelist/blacklist options iirc
10:55	sdegutis	Nice. I'll do that then.
11:02	sdegutis	justin_smith: actually some-> solved it instead
11:02	sdegutis	(some-> conn d/db)
11:02	sdegutis	yay
11:02	justin_smith	interesting
11:21	sdegutis	,(. (java.util.Date.) after (java.util.Date.))
11:21	clojurebot	false
11:21	sdegutis	I like this syntax a lot for Java comparison methods.
11:21	sdegutis	It's much more natural than this:
11:21	sdegutis	,(.after (java.util.Date.) (java.util.Date.))
11:21	clojurebot	false
11:21	sdegutis	I wish > and < had a similar thing.
11:22	sdegutis	justin_smith: for .after it makes way more logical sense
11:22	justin_smith	SDEGUTIS: YOU KNOW THIS WILL JUST LEAD TO PRECEDENCE RULES THE PAIN WILL NEVER END
11:23	sdegutis	justin_smith: your lack of faith is disturbing
11:23	sdegutis	justin_smith: you underestimate the power of the infix-side
11:34	hamid	do NOT underestimate the power of the dark side of the force!
11:36	hamid	anyway :D assuming i have a (def myset (set (range 1000000))) ... does a (set myset) have performance bottleneck since "myset" is already a set?
11:36	justin_smith	sdegutis: rule of least power, prefix is therefore suprior to infix because it is less powerful https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/leastPower.html
11:36	justin_smith	hamid: no, it's basically a no-op
11:37	hamid	justin_smith, awesomeness there it is!
11:37	hamid	thank you
11:37	justin_smith	hamid: you can run (source set) in the repl and see for yourself
11:37	justin_smith	(assuming clojure.repl is in scope, which is the default)
11:37	hamid	ow
11:38	hamid	,(set? #{})
11:38	clojurebot	true
11:38	hamid	i see
11:38	hamid	+1
11:38	sdegutis	justin_smith: clarity trumps power every time
11:38	justin_smith	sdegutis: then we agree!
11:38	sdegutis	justin_smith: that's why they banned call/cc
11:39	justin_smith	and it's also why you need a prescription to use macros, and you can only get them in restricted quantity
11:40	armlesshobo	justin_smith: sounds better than my insurance company's policies on prescriptions lol
11:53	sdegutis	:)
11:53	sdegutis	So many new regular faces here lately.
11:59	armlesshobo	:)
12:05	sdegutis	...which means a lot of you have been breaking the first two rules of fight club.
12:07	bendavisnc	hey should i be using function? to test if something is a function? i'm a bit confused because it seems likei it's meant just for unit testing
12:07	bendavisnc	is reflecting if something is a function just a no no in standard clojure code?
12:07	bendavisnc	i feel like i'm definitely missing something
12:08	justin_smith	bendavisnc: most clojure code is not coded defensively - if someone does something dumb we just let them deal with the consequences
12:08	justin_smith	bendavisnc: and deciding what to do based on type of an arg is better done with multimethods or protocols rather than boolean checks
12:09	hiredman	,(doc function?)
12:09	clojurebot	Pardon?
12:09	bendavisnc	ok so what i'm trying to do is use the match macro to have a condition based on if it's matching a thing with a function
12:09	hiredman	why do you think function? exists?
12:09	justin_smith	personally I do like to code defensively at system boundaries - where parts of an app interact - and there I use prismatic schema to describe the expectations
12:10	hiredman	there is fn? and ifn? depending on what you are doing
12:10	bendavisnc	https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.test/function_q
12:11	bendavisnc	hmmm i think fn? is what i'm looking for. thanks!
12:11	hiredman	yeah, definitely don't use that
12:11	hiredman	(ever, for anything)
12:11	bendavisnc	the test/function? you mean @hiredman ?
12:12	hiredman	yes
12:12	bendavisnc	yeah, it's not clear to me why that exists and fn? but i'm not sure how much i care if i'm being perfectly honest
12:13	justin_smith	bendavisnc: if you look at the source for test/function? you'll see that it's just fn? with an added special case for symbols that resolve to a function, and I doubt you want or need the latter
12:13	bendavisnc	ah, okay. thanks for that
12:14	hiredman	it is not the same as fn?, it is built on fn?, it is used by clojure.test to try and do better reporting of errors for certain kinds of (is ...) assertions
12:18	hiredman	I would hesitate before using fn?, or ifn?, or doing any kind of function sniffing, because the line between data and functions in clojure can be blury
12:19	hiredman	fn? basically returns true for anything created using (fn ...), and ifn? for anything else that can be invoked like a function
12:20	hiredman	if you test with fn? you can't use keywords with functions, if you test with ifn? lots of data also is seen as a function (keywords, maps, sets, symbols)
12:21	hiredman	fn? may actually return false for multimethods too, I forget
12:21	hiredman	,(fn? print-method)
12:21	clojurebot	false
12:22	bendavisnc	yeah i think as long as i'm using fn i'm good
12:23	bendavisnc	(fn? "howthisfalse")
12:23	bendavisnc	,(fn? "howthisfalse")
12:23	clojurebot	false
12:24	hiredman	it is highly context dependent
12:24	hiredman	(if it will be ok or not)
12:25	hiredman	if you are writting a function that takes a bunch of arguments and using fn? the essential parser apart the different possible options, and the function is some kind of accessor for a value from a datastructure, that means you can't just pass in a keyword
12:26	sdegutis	Good evening.
12:26	sdegutis	How is your current state?
12:33	tolstoy	Unsynchronized and racey.
12:33	justin_smith	failover
12:41	hamid	in (source swap!), what is this "^clojure.lang.IAtom" all about? "([^clojure.lang.IAtom atom f] (.swap atom f))"
12:41	hamid	type checking?!
12:41	hiredman	type hint
12:41	hamid	hiredman, compile time?
12:41	hiredman	it isn't checked, but it is a directive to the compiler so it can generate optimal code
12:42	hiredman	http://clojure.org/reference/java_interop#typehints
12:42	hamid	thank you ^
12:43	hamid	nice!
12:44	hamid	i wish it could type check! except core.typed... is there any form of lisp that type checks?
12:45	tolstoy	hamid: Maybe this? http://shenlanguage.org
12:45	sg2002	Hello. I've been playing around with gnu global. There's pygments plugin for it that allows it so parse clojure. Anyone tried this?
12:54	hamid	tolstoy, hmm weird it is! it has even pattern matching.
12:55	tolstoy	hamid: Seems to be something you use on another platform base. Scheme, Ruby, Common Lisp certified, JavaScript and Clojure "awaiting".
13:38	sg2002	Ok, so it seems that pygments is not worth it, but the universal-ctags works pretty fine.
14:01	sdegutis	Hiccup is really well designed, all except the very strange decision to differentiate between vectors and every other kind of data type.
14:02	sdegutis	If it's a vector, then it's an element, otherwise if it's sequential?, then it's a collection of things to be examined individually.
14:02	sdegutis	Why not rather if it's sequential? then check the first element, and if it's a keyword then the coll is an element, otherwise it's a collection of elements?
14:14	hamid	I'm trying to learn macros. Would anyone confirm this? https://www.refheap.com/116692 ?
14:15	hamid	in repl this happens: (macroexpand-1 '(update-state state $ (assoc $ :x 1)))
14:15	hamid	(clojure.core/swap! user/_state (clojure.core/fn [user/__state] (clojure.core/as-> user/__state user/state (assoc $ :x 1))))
14:16	hamid	im not sure why the namespace (user/*) is there! in the arugments that i passed
14:17	luma	because you have the symbol '__state inside a syntax-quote, so it is expanded into its fully qualified name user/__state
14:17	luma	(since your macro is in the user namespace)
14:17	hamid	luma, would you fix it for me so i can see how it's done?
14:20	luma	hamid, this is probably what you're trying to do: https://www.refheap.com/116694
14:21	luma	first of all, exprs should be a vararg (variable argument) so that you can pass any number of those
14:22	luma	then, syntax-quote (backtick) is used when you return code from a macro. inside the syntax-quote, you can use ~ to unquote parameters, and ~@ to unquote and splice a list from the parameters
14:23	luma	and when you want to generate a symbol inside a syntax-quote, put # in the end of it so that a new symbol is generated instead
14:24	hamid	luma, aawww niceee... thank youuuu :) it's awesome that you folks are here. that # thing is awesome.
14:24	hamid	now it's exactly what i intended to generate:
14:24	hamid	(clojure.core/swap! state (clojure.core/fn [state__8210__auto__] (clojure.core/as-> state__8210__auto__ $ (assoc $ :x 1))))
14:57	Boris	hi. stuck in a little java interop (which I seldomly do). Can anyone help me with translating this one line to clojure?
14:57	Boris	java: GPlot plot = new GPlot(this);
14:58	Boris	I would normally do something like (def plot (new GPlot)), but don't know how to deal with the "this"
14:58	Boris	context is here: https://forum.processing.org/two/discussion/136/grafica-library , trying to use the grafica extension of processing in quil.
15:05	justin_smith	Boris: a function can use it's own name to refer to itself
15:05	justin_smith	,(defn me [] me)
15:05	clojurebot	#'sandbox/me
15:05	justin_smith	,(= me (me))
15:05	clojurebot	true
15:06	boris133	so I would do (def plot (new Gplot plot))
15:06	justin_smith	boris133: no, more lik (defn setup [] (Gplot. setup)) - that would be a closer analog (this refers to the function owning the setup method)
15:07	justin_smith	err, object owning it, of course
15:07	boris133	ah, ok. I'll play with it.
15:07	justin_smith	boris133: but I'm not certain this would work - processing is weird and magic, and so is quil
15:08	justin_smith	maybe you would actually want to provide the name of the sketch (first arg to defsketch) instead? I really don't know
15:08	boris133	ugh. will see. I was just charmed by the plots from grafica - http://jagracar.com/grafica.php
15:08	justin_smith	hopefully someone else knows quil better than I
15:08	boris133	wanted to see if I could get that through quil.
15:08	boris133	nod
15:18	sdegutis	im back
15:18	sdegutis	,((fn x [] (x)))
15:18	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause nil\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.StackOverflowError\n :message nil\n :at [sandbox$eval25$x__26 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]}]\n :trace\n [[sandbox$eval25$x__26 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]\n [sandbox$eval25$x__26 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]\n [sandbox$eval25$x__26 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]\n [sandbox$eval25$x__26 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]\n [sandbox$eval25$x__26 invoke "NO_S...
15:18	sdegutis	hahaha stupid clojure, cant even handle infinite recursion
15:24	lokien	stupid clojure indeed
15:26	lokien	even nobody's advocating it
15:31	dysfun	mwahahaha, thwarted by the halting problem again
15:46	sdegutis	,(:i :i)
15:46	clojurebot	nil
15:46	sdegutis	,(:i :i :i)
15:46	clojurebot	:i
15:46	sdegutis	hahahah clojue is funny guy
15:47	sdegutis	I think clojure is a pretty cool guy. Eh accepts any input and doesn't afraid of anything.
15:50	luma	,((get get get (get get get get)) {:a 42} :a)
15:50	clojurebot	42
15:51	sdegutis	luma: you win
15:51	sdegutis	/this/ round
15:51	sdegutis	but you ahvent won
15:51	sdegutis	the .war
15:51	luma	(i think justin_smith is the one who likes to (get get get get) here)
15:51	sdegutis	,(get get get get)
15:51	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$get 0x1a3f6a10 "clojure.core$get@1a3f6a10"]
15:55	justin_smith	,(= get (get get get get) ((get get get get) (get get get get) (get get get get) (get get get get)))
15:55	clojurebot	true
15:55	justin_smith	etc.
16:06	dysfun	you'd love perl, you know, justin_smith
16:10	Punic	Hey everyone.
16:10	lokien	hello Punic
16:10	justin_smith	dysfun: it appeals to my enjoyment of absurdity, but that isn't actually what I want in a programming language
16:11	Punic	How is it going guys?
16:12	justin_smith	pretty good! I just figured out an elegant way to claim ownership of tasks for a distributed pool using zookeeper
16:12	justin_smith	*from a distributed pool
16:12	lokien	justin_smith: absurdity is the best part of programming languages
16:12	Punic	Well that sounds cool. Altough I didn't understand shit from what you said
16:13	lokien	Punic: I wanted to do a project, but then I realised plenty of people have done that already
16:14	Punic	Don't tell me you were after "the next facebook"?
16:15	lokien	no, I just wanted to scrape some websites to my Kindle :<
16:16	lokien	(which I don't even own yet)
16:17	lokien	can you guys give me some good clojure code to read?
16:17	lokien	like, the most beautiful clojure code in your opinion
16:24	kenrestivo	the clojure source itself, or the cljs source, written by rich?
16:25	kenrestivo	also, anything rich has written, like his example code for codeq and datomic
16:27	sdegutis	I look around, I look around.. I see a lot of new faces.
16:28	justin_smith	ring, and other stuff by weavejester. amalloy writes good code (in particular flatland/useful, a util lib, has some ideas worth emulating)
16:28	lokien	I'm an old face, come on
16:29	sdegutis	I've also seen an awful lot of unnecessarily convoluted code by respectable people though.
16:29	sdegutis	So that's not always a safe bet.
16:29	lokien	kenrestivo: clojure source frightened me last time I looked at it, I don't want to do it again
16:29	sdegutis	All I can recommend personally is just to write a lot of code and read a lot of code from as many sources as you can, and just compare things based on your own reasoning and experiments and experience.
16:29	lokien	justin_smith: thanks, will check
16:30	justin_smith	sdegutis: (let [years-here (number of years justin_smith has hung out in #clojure) beard-length (length of justin_smith's beard in inches)] (assert (= (/ beard-length years-here) 2)))
16:30	lokien	sdegutis: I don't have any ideas now, so no code is being written by me. downside of not having a job :(
16:31	sdegutis	lokien: meh, there's nothing wrong with not doing something you have no reason to do; just like how I don't go digging ditches all over my front yard
16:31	sdegutis	lokien: that said, if you want to get a Clojure job, start writing tons and tons and tons of Clojure
16:32	justin_smith	sdegutis: it works in the other direction too
16:32	sdegutis	justin_smith: how so
16:32	justin_smith	if you want to write tons and tons of Clojure, get a Clojure job
16:32	sdegutis	justin_smith: sure, but it doesn't hurt to have some experience
16:33	justin_smith	lokien: lol
16:33	sdegutis	lokien: actually why not just this?
16:33	sdegutis	,(take 3 (iterate #(get get %)))
16:33	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/iterate"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.ArityException\n :message "Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/iterate"\n :at [clojure.lang.AFn throwArity "AFn.java" 429]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.lang.AFn throwArity "AFn.java" 429]\n [clojure.lang.AFn invoke "AFn.java" 32]\n [sandbox$eval26 invokeStatic "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]\n [sandbox$eva...
16:34	sdegutis	,(take 3 (iterate #(get get %) get))
16:34	clojurebot	(#object[clojure.core$get 0x5351c06e "clojure.core$get@5351c06e"] nil nil)
16:34	justin_smith	lokien: I only share stupid things like that so you'll be pleasantly surprised when I say something that isn't stupid
16:34	sdegutis	,(take 5 (iterate #(get get %) get))
16:34	clojurebot	(#object[clojure.core$get 0x5351c06e "clojure.core$get@5351c06e"] nil nil nil nil)
16:34	lokien	justin_smith: "How I Became A Professional Developer In Three Weeks Using This One Weird Trick"
16:34	sdegutis	,(nth (iterate #(get get get %) get) 100)
16:34	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$get 0x5351c06e "clojure.core$get@5351c06e"]
16:34	sdegutis	hahaha
16:34	justin_smith	lokien: programmers hate him!
16:34	sdegutis	,(= get (nth (iterate #(get get get %) get) 10000000))
16:34	clojurebot	true
16:34	sdegutis	stupid clojure hahaha
16:35	sdegutis	lokien: use iterate, that's an easier way to recurse (get (get (get (get (get ... without doing it manually
16:35	hiredman	I think I am pretty happy with https://github.com/hiredman/kvgc/blob/master/src/com/manigfeald/kvgc.clj if I do say so myself
16:35	luma	,(take 3 (iterate #(% % % %) get))
16:35	clojurebot	(#object[clojure.core$get 0x5351c06e "clojure.core$get@5351c06e"] #object[clojure.core$get 0x5351c06e "clojure.core$get@5351c06e"] #object[clojure.core$get 0x5351c06e "clojure.core$get@5351c06e"])
16:35	sdegutis	WAIT I GOT IT!!!
16:37	lokien	hiredman: tell me your secret of hiredness
16:37	hiredman	actually I am looking for work :P
16:37	lokien	:D
16:37	lokien	change your nick then, you mischief
16:38	TEttinger	it's hire d-man
16:38	sdegutis	hold on
16:38	sdegutis	its not working
16:39	sdegutis	why not?
16:39	sdegutis	(apply apply (repeat 4 get))
16:39	hiredman	I was hired once, I think they were impressed with my knowledge of clojure internals, which got my foot in the door (this was a few years ago), and then once my foot was in the door, I was willing to tackle anything, so they hung on to me for a while
16:41	sobel	i hate when that happens
16:41	sobel	er.. :)
16:42	sdegutis	i cant figure this out
16:42	hiredman	https://github.com/liebke/analemma is a neat project, I think it may even has started as a teaching aid
16:42	sdegutis	justin_smith: help what am i doing wrong
16:42	sdegutis	i mean for sure this works (apply get [get get get])
16:42	sdegutis	but i cant get it to take [get get get get] and turn it into (get get get get) anyhow
16:42	lokien	hiredman: that terrifies me a little, I'd like to get a job writing clojure, but it seems so unlikely
16:42	sdegutis	what am i doing wrong #:'(
16:43	sdegutis	oops that waffle doesnt belong on my head
16:43	sobel	lokien: easiest way to get a job writing clojure is to get a job writing java where they won't complain if you write some in clojure
16:43	sobel	lokien: then you're the local expert, too. that doesn't hurt.
16:43	lokien	sdegutis: don't try to fool us, we saw everything
16:43	hiredman	if you live or are willing to live near one of the tech centers in the us (sf, seattle, chicago, ny) it should be no problem
16:43	sdegutis	also why doesnt ((fn [x & y] (apply x y)) (repeat 4 get)) work when it should definitely?
16:44	lokien	sobel: working with java people? I'm getting goosebumps already
16:44	justin_smith	,(apply apply ((juxt first rest) (repeat 4 get))) ; sdegutis
16:44	lokien	hiredman: Poland >:c
16:44	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$get 0x32badd00 "clojure.core$get@32badd00"]
16:44	hiredman	my last job was a remote position, and I cannot go back to having a commute
16:44	sdegutis	YESSSSS
16:44	sdegutis	justin_smith: you win
16:44	sdegutis	my brain is defeated on a friday afternoooooooon
16:45	sobel	lokien: <shrug> i am a data nerd, but i like using clojure when i have to program. i work at a java shop, so clojure is easy to integrate.
16:46	sdegutis	ahhhh i found out why
16:46	lokien	sobel: I'm an expressive languages nerd, it won't be as easy for me
16:46	sdegutis	,((fn [[x & y]] (apply x y)) (repeat 4 get))
16:46	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$get 0x32badd00 "clojure.core$get@32badd00"]
16:46	sdegutis	haha
16:47	justin_smith	sdegutis: but no juxt
16:47	sdegutis	aww
16:47	hiredman	it seems like there is more interest in ClojureScript developers, sort of front end ui focused stuff
16:48	hiredman	I see positions where they have a go/python backend and clojurescript frontends
16:48	Kirchgehammer	Say I'm in Java and I have a string with a Clojure form like "(def a 42)", how would I evaluate this by Clojure? Are there static methods I can call for reading and evaluating?
16:48	Kirchgehammer	Surely this must be documented somewhere?
16:48	hiredman	Kirchgehammer: yes
16:48	Kirchgehammer	Do you know the names of these functions?
16:48	hiredman	Kirchgehammer: https://clojure.github.io/clojure/javadoc/
16:48	justin_smith	Kirchgehammer: yes, you would want read followed by eval, there's methods in clojure.lang.RT
16:48	sdegutis	hiredman: thats because people suck
16:49	lokien	hiredman: yups, for someone that loves js ecosystem, but doesn't like its syntax, cjls is a blessing
16:50	Kirchgehammer	Object form = RT.readString("(def a 42)");
16:50	Kirchgehammer	justin_smith Can't find the eval function :(
16:51	Kirchgehammer	Oh wait, Clojure has an eval function, I just need to grab that via var?
16:52	justin_smith	Kirchgehammer: yeah, I forgot the steps, but yeah, first you need read-string, then eval
16:52	Kirchgehammer	IFn eval = Clojure.var("clojure.core", "eval");
16:52	Kirchgehammer	Something like that?
16:52	justin_smith	and the var lookup / invoke might be the trick
16:52	justin_smith	I think so
16:52	justin_smith	should be quick to test out
16:53	kenrestivo	hmm. cider-doc is giving me fits. http://pastebin.com/wk6EpeGp
16:53	kenrestivo	any ideas?
16:53	kennytilton	Does clojure have a type t like Common Lisp? I want to defmethod on a multi-fn and specialize on only some of the parameters.
16:53	kenrestivo	all i did is cider-doc at a particular point
16:53	justin_smith	kenrestivo: you just made me read code in comic sans :(
16:54	Kirchgehammer	Object form = RT.readString("(def a 42)");
16:54	Kirchgehammer	IFn eval = Clojure.var("clojure.core", "eval");
16:54	Kirchgehammer	Object result = eval.invoke(form);
16:54	Kirchgehammer	System.out.println(result);
16:54	Kirchgehammer	#'clojure.core/a
16:54	Kirchgehammer	OMG it works!!!
16:54	justin_smith	Kirchgehammer: awesome
16:54	kenrestivo	i didn't write that in comic sans
16:55	kenrestivo	it's a pastebin. isn't refheap closed to new pastes?
16:55	justin_smith	kenrestivo: just teasing, it's clearly an april fools thing
16:55	kenrestivo	ah! it isn't
16:55	kenrestivo	https://www.refheap.com/116704
16:56	justin_smith	kenrestivo: that looks like buggy elisp to me
16:56	kenrestivo	it sure is. but... why? where? i'm using the cider from packages
16:57	kenrestivo	20160401.1308
16:57	kennytilton	Oh. Object. Duh.
16:58	kenrestivo	this is actually why i stayed away from cider and used nrepl.el for years. it worked. :/
16:59	justin_smith	yes, nrepl.el was much more stable
16:59	kenrestivo	sigh
17:01	justin_smith	kenrestivo: it's like the opposite of the unix tool building philosophy: try to do everything you possibly can in one tool
17:03	kwladyka	if i added as dependency in project.clj package X and use from there only X.namespace-1 after compile it will include all other namespaces or only which i am using in code?
17:04	justin_smith	kwladyka: it will load that namespace, and whichever other namespaces that namespace loads
17:04	justin_smith	kwladyka: require is transitive (otherwise it would be a pain in the ass to use libs)
17:04	kenrestivo	justin_smith: ok dude, yeah, it's trying to be an ide. and it's broken. but... any idea how to get cider-doc to work?
17:04	kenrestivo	this is like one of the most basic features
17:05	justin_smith	kenrestivo: I wish I could be more helpful, I don't even use emacs any more myself
17:05	kenrestivo	(cider-doc-lookup (make-symbol "while")) gives a stringp error
17:05	kwladyka	justin_smith sounds good :)
17:05	kenrestivo	even though that's not a stringp
17:06	justin_smith	kenrestivo: you could try the step debugger - elisp is actually really great for interactive debugging
17:07	kenrestivo	yep, i'm in the debugger. thanks
17:08	sdegutis	this sucks
17:08	sdegutis	my old code sucks
17:09	kenrestivo	oh well, i can just (doc foo) for now
17:09	sdegutis	im sorry, me, im sorry for putting you in this position
17:10	kenrestivo	everyone's old code sucks. that's what old code is.
17:11	justin_smith	kenrestivo: the sad thing is my good code is the code I never have to look at again
17:11	justin_smith	kenrestivo: I've written a handful of good namespaces, those are the ones I haven't had to load into an editor in ages...
17:11	justin_smith	haha
17:12	kenrestivo	true, but i bet if you did, you'd be gripped with an urgent need to refactor it
17:13	justin_smith	kenrestivo: no, I go back and look at old code just for the sake of looking at it sometimes, and there are a few that are just gems. Or, more likely, I am not wise enough yet to know why they are terrible. But no urge to refactor (unlike most of the code I read, no matter who wrote it)
17:20	sdegutis	justin_smith: haha so wise
17:21	justin_smith	sdegutis: I assure you, I'm a fool
17:21	sdegutis	haha so modest
17:21	dysfun	justin_smith: we all feel that way when we look at our old code
17:22	justin_smith	sdegutis: there's things off the topic of this room that I'll totally brag about - like I lost 34 pounds in the last 7 weeks
17:22	justin_smith	sdegutis: but I'm bad at code
17:22	dysfun	justin_smith: you should probably stop keeping english money in your pockets then
17:22	justin_smith	ba-dum-tish
17:22	sdegutis	justin_smith: that sounds unhealthy
17:22	sdegutis	justin_smith: i lost like.. hold on lemme check
17:23	justin_smith	sdegutis: I looked for professional advice - taking a suppliment every day, keeping to a specific calorie count every day, making sure not to exceed 5 pounds lost a week
17:23	sdegutis	justin_smith: like 6-8 lbs in the past few weeks
17:23	sdegutis	assuming our crappy scale can be trusted, which it cant
17:23	justin_smith	heh
17:24	sdegutis	the trick is to cut down on red bull to only 2-3 per day
17:24	lokien	justin_smith: what editor do you use now? I fired up emacs five minutes ago and it was broken, again. I don't want to deal with that anymore
17:24	sdegutis	lokien: justin_smith <3 vim
17:24	sdegutis	lokien: i <3 emacs
17:24	sdegutis	lokien: YOU decide.
17:24	justin_smith	lokien: I don't know if you'd want to develop like I do, but I use vim and a regular repl in a terminal (I don't use fireplace)
17:25	sdegutis	justin_smith: my doc told me i have to start cutting out carbs and sugars and check back in 6 months and i might have to go on a fricken pill to prevent a heart attack if i dont
17:25	lokien	justin_smith: any plugins?
17:25	justin_smith	so I use require :reload for in project stuff, load-file for files in a lib in anotehr project that I have in disk, etc.
17:25	sdegutis	justin_smith: so i eat like eggs and mixed veggies and chicken and stuff, and we bought an ellipsis to run on in the living room
17:25	justin_smith	lokien: just the basic vim-clojure
17:26	dysfun	you run on an ellipsis?
17:26	justin_smith	sdegutis: now I'm imagining you riding a ...
17:26	justin_smith	very abstract, but funny
17:26	sdegutis	dysfun: yeah its easier on my knees
17:26	sdegutis	justin_smith: you mean …
17:26	dysfun	i used to have a manual treadmill which had rollers in the middle, so it was a bit like an ellipsis
17:26	sdegutis	weird
17:27	lokien	justin_smith: o-kay, time to make my 4th vimrc
17:27	justin_smith	lokien: you don't have to do it my way! there's also monroe in emacs
17:27	lokien	sdegutis: how's your pinky? mine hurt after few hours, I had to switch to vim bindings
17:28	sdegutis	lokien: its fine as long as i dont wrest my rist on the wdesk
17:28	sdegutis	haha i jest, no lest
17:28	lokien	justin_smith: I just don't want to experience headaches ever again
17:29	sdegutis	dysfun: we used to have a treadmill desk for coding at at my old job
17:29	sdegutis	i think thye still have it
17:29	sdegutis	it was 2hard4me
17:29	sdegutis	i mean 2hard5me dangit i messed it up
17:29	justin_smith	lokien: well, if you are ok with :reload and load-file, my experience doing things without editor integration has been decent, but I think I also code slower than other people, so I am OK with going and looking up doc strings instead of seeing them automatically, etc.
17:30	dysfun	yeah i should make a standing desk arrangement now i work from home all the time
17:30	dysfun	i've stopped taking public transport in favour of cycling
17:30	justin_smith	dysfun: same but walking - 4.5 mile walk (though I do occasionally bus too)
17:30	justin_smith	(9 miles round trip)
17:31	justin_smith	1.5 hours of understimulation is a nice thing!
17:31	dysfun	too much time out of the day to walk
17:31	lokien	justin_smith: my programming is 80% looking at the code, 20% writing it
17:31	dysfun	i love cycling even though my legs are hurting because i took 18 months off
17:31	justin_smith	dysfun: that's just because you have a life, and probably loved ones, if you were a loser like me you'd have all the time in the world to go walking
17:31	lokien	justin_smith: or even less.
17:31	lokien	like 90-10
17:32	dysfun	justin_smith: i really don't have a life and i pity anyone daft enough to love me. but between all my code and the shopping and the housework, i still don't have time to walk
17:32	sdegutis	dysfun: oh man i got one of those
17:33	lokien	dysfun: I love you!
17:33	TEttinger	my programming is about 70% writing the code, 25% pacing inefficiently, and 5% going to the bathroom and almost always getting a useful idea in the process
17:33	dysfun	haha
17:33	TEttinger	it's like I'm incapable of passing a block in my code without passing a stool
17:33	lokien	TEttinger: my idea for a startup - coding toilet desks
17:34	tolstoy	lokien: Hopefully not open plan.
17:34	TEttinger	hahaha
17:34	sdegutis	hahahaha
17:34	justin_smith	TEttinger: lokien: 90% confustion, 5% contemplation, 2% writing code, and 25% underestimating the time needed for the task
17:34	dysfun	justin_smith: it's actually 460% underestimating the time needed for the task
17:34	TEttinger	confustius say...
17:34	lokien	justin_smith: 120% configuring my text editor
17:35	justin_smith	dysfun: oh man...
17:35	sdegutis	https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6kol44npg7n51d/workspace.JPG?dl=0
17:35	sdegutis	dysfun: its that
17:35	dysfun	i've taken to just letting my mind wander in useful directions and not worrying too hard about when it actually solidifies into code
17:35	sdegutis	im standing in that very spot as we speak
17:36	dysfun	nice desk
17:36	sdegutis	my dad made the middle shelf and put it on here
17:36	sdegutis	thanks
17:36	dysfun	the only redeeming thing about my desk is the aeron in front ofi t
17:36	lokien	sdegutis: nice drawings
17:36	TEttinger	indeed
17:36	sdegutis	haha that was my wife
17:37	sdegutis	one of them is sign language
17:37	sdegutis	the other is a <3
17:37	dysfun	i thought she was just sticking two fingers up at the person holding a shield?
17:37	sdegutis	haha no thats sign language
17:37	scottj	sdegutis: I think either your keyboard is too high or your monitor is too low
17:37	TEttinger	3
17:37	scottj	or your legs are too long
17:37	lokien	sdegutis: "Children don't obey"
17:37	sdegutis	scottj: my monitor may be too low acrually
17:38	dysfun	your eyes should be level with the top of your monitor
17:38	lokien	sdegutis: sadly I can't read anything else
17:38	sdegutis	and you assume you got that one correct
17:42	sdegutis	scottj: now that i look at it, when i stand up str8, my eyes go directly above the top of the monitor
17:42	sdegutis	like evenly flat
17:42	sdegutis	im sasying it all wrong, but i hope i make sense
17:43	tolstoy	Yeah. Where should your eyes fall when you slouch?
17:43	Kirchgehammer	justin_smith: http://i.imgur.com/qh4dTrZ.png
17:43	justin_smith	speaking of legs being too long, I totally want to make a data coersion library called Procrustes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes
17:43	Kirchgehammer	Just finished the first working prototype ;)
17:44	justin_smith	Kirchgehammer: nice!
17:45	justin_smith	first task, coerce the string "coersion" to become "coercion"
17:45	sdegutis	lol clopad
17:45	sdegutis	hard to believe thats a monospace font too
17:45	justin_smith	sdegutis: I think we should be nice here - he just went and made a thing over the course of an hour or two
17:46	sdegutis	justin_smith: he made that? then whats the one im thinking of?
17:46	justin_smith	sdegutis: no idea! he was asking how to call clojure to evaluate strings, and came back with that java app
17:46	sdegutis	Kirchgehammer: nice app. what do you think of changing the font to menlo?
17:47	Kirchgehammer	Is that the official Clojure font or something?
17:47	Kirchgehammer	My editor uses a bitmap font :)
17:47	sdegutis	justin_smith: im definitely thinnking of a different one
17:47	sdegutis	Kirchgehammer: no i just like menlo
17:47	Kirchgehammer	never heard of menlo
17:47	sdegutis	you may like it who knows
17:48	Kirchgehammer	maybe
17:48	sdegutis	Oh!
17:48	sdegutis	Clooj
17:48	sdegutis	i was thinking of Clooj
17:48	tolstoy	There's also night-something.
17:48	sdegutis	yeah nightcode but thats active
17:48	sdegutis	clooj was last touched late 2013 early 2014
17:49	tolstoy	nightcode.info: nothing! Hm.
17:49	sdegutis	i like the idea of a clojure ide written in clojure
17:49	sdegutis	a lot.
17:49	sdegutis	i just dont like the idea of it using a java ide
17:49	sdegutis	or clojurescript + web
17:49	justin_smith	sdegutis: Procrustes was "a rogue smith and bandit from Attica who physically attacked people by stretching them or cutting off their legs"
17:50	sdegutis	justin_smith: let me guess 'justin' is an alias
17:50	sdegutis	justin_smith: or should i say PROCRUSTES
17:50	sdegutis	justin_smith: but srsly im way too unconcentratd to know why you brought that up
17:50	justin_smith	sdegutis: you're just jealous because there's never been a rogue degutis
17:50	sdegutis	hahahaha
17:50	sdegutis	actually we looked it up
17:51	sdegutis	degutis is based on the lithuanian name for tar worker
17:51	sdegutis	so my ancestors basically made pitch for boats or something
17:51	justin_smith	sdegutis: the above conversation, someone said "or your legs are too long", which reminded me someone needs to make a coercion library named Procrustes
17:51	sdegutis	:'(
17:51	sdegutis	oh right
17:52	lokien	my last name is a vim plugin manager /:
17:52	sdegutis	it would go along with the technomancy-esque naming scheme thats all the rage these days
17:54	TEttinger	sdegutis: and a degu is a cute little squirrel type thing
17:54	TEttinger	http://homeanimals.co.uk/images/degu.jpg
17:55	justin_smith	TEttinger: that's what I assume sdegutis looks like, tbh
17:55	lokien_	That squinting one?
17:57	sdegutis	correct.
17:57	TEttinger	tommy ettinger is an anagram for gritty teen mom
17:58	TEttinger	justin smith is not very anagrammy
17:58	justin_smith	no, not really
17:59	sdegutis	Okay so my wife called and asked what I want for dinner, with the stipulation that she's not gonna make anything, but she's at the store and can buy whatever.
17:59	TEttinger	steven degutis is an anagram for Nudest Vestige
17:59	sdegutis	But I can't think of what would be a great dinner tonight.
17:59	Glenjamin	thin jit sums
17:59	sdegutis	Something that's easy to buy and not hard to make.
17:59	justin_smith	Glenjamin: nice
17:59	tolstoy	Mexican food!
17:59	sdegutis	yeah but what kind?
18:00	sdegutis	i mean, i was gonna say nachos
18:00	Glenjamin	artithmetic in a hot loop :D
18:00	TEttinger	also, devise gun test
18:00	sdegutis	hmm
18:00	sdegutis	wtf TEttinger lol
18:00	sdegutis	so many inappropriate anagrams of my name
18:00	TEttinger	http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=steven+degutis&language=english&t=1000&d=&include=&exclude=&n=&m=&source=adv&a=n&l=n&q=n&k=1
18:00	sdegutis	i half expect the next one to include like murder or something
18:00	tolstoy	Ground beef, spices, green onions, tomato, hot sauce, tortilla, done.
18:00	sdegutis	tolstoy: but thats a lot of work to chop up the things
18:01	srruby	yum
18:01	sdegutis	hmm
18:01	justin_smith	has anyone made a statistical model based taco bell food generator yet?
18:01	tolstoy	Not longer than it takes the meat to cook. And if you want cheese, you can get that pre-grated. ;)
18:01	justin_smith	you probably wouldn't even need a markov model, I but just a random percentage of including each ingredient on the list would suffice
18:02	tolstoy	Yeah, seems to me that the difference between one dish and another is the style of the tortilla.
18:02	sdegutis	tolstoy: then its settled
18:03	srruby	Question about unit testing. When I do lein new app foo, I get a test file in test/foo/core_test.clj Should I follow this approach in unit testing other clj files ?
18:03	tolstoy	Heh. Add some re-fried beans, if that's your thing, too. I like black-bean best.
18:04	TEttinger	justin_smith: have you had a quesalupa, or whatever the chalupa with a quesadilla shell is?
18:04	srruby	cook the beef separately and drain off the fat unless you like the fat....
18:04	sdegutis	aw heck yeah, shes gonna make sweet & spicy chicken wraps
18:04	tolstoy	Strainer!
18:05	sdegutis	turns out jewel sells precooked and precut up chicken
18:05	sdegutis	yay
18:05	sdegutis	so btw, guys, this is slightly more on topic:
18:05	sdegutis	turns out, music with no lyrics or singing in it, just instruments, is really good to listen to while programming
18:06	tolstoy	Classical all the way.
18:06	sdegutis	such as https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P1AYVBS (preview the things)
18:06	lokien_	I can't focus listening to piano, I just keep listening to the piano for ten minutes instead of coding and get distracted
18:06	tolstoy	I had to grow into listening to stuff while working due to Open Plan / Cubicle life.
18:06	justin_smith	,(defn taco-bell-recipe [] (concat (take (rand-int 4) (shuffle ["flour tortilla" "corn tortilla" "chips" "gordita" "rice"])) (take (rand-int 10) (shuffle ["onions" "beans" "cheese" "beef" "chicken" "lettuce" "tomatoes" "enchilada sauce" "sour cream" "guacamole" "nacho cheese"]))))
18:06	clojurebot	#'sandbox/taco-bell-recipe
18:06	sdegutis	ok so thats the setup (its also true btw).
18:06	justin_smith	,(taco-bell-recipe)
18:06	clojurebot	("corn tortilla" "rice" "sour cream" "guacamole" "cheese" ...)
18:06	sdegutis	now heres the joke
18:07	justin_smith	sdegutis: your dinner^
18:07	sdegutis	such as Bon Iver also
18:07	tolstoy	Separate the data (ingredients) from the functions (particular dish)?
18:07	sdegutis	i mean,
18:07	sdegutis	"also, anything by Bon Iver"
18:07	sdegutis	haha!
18:07	tolstoy	Sigur Ros is nice.
18:08	sdegutis	justin_smith: hmm could use more thread-last
18:08	justin_smith	,defn taco-bell-recipe [] (clojure.string/join ", " (concat (take (rand-int 4) (shuffle ["flour tortilla" "corn tortilla" "chips" "gordita" "rice"])) (take (rand-int 10) (shuffle ["onions" "beans" "cheese" "beef" "chicken" "lettuce" "tomatoes" "enchilada sauce" "sour cream" "guacamole" "nacho cheese"])))))
18:08	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/defn"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/defn, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Can't take value of a macro: #'clojur...
18:08	justin_smith	,(defn taco-bell-recipe [] (clojure.string/join ", " (concat (take (rand-int 4) (shuffle ["flour tortilla" "corn tortilla" "chips" "gordita" "rice"])) (take (rand-int 10) (shuffle ["onions" "beans" "cheese" "beef" "chicken" "lettuce" "tomatoes" "enchilada sauce" "sour cream" "guacamole" "nacho cheese"])))))
18:08	clojurebot	#'sandbox/taco-bell-recipe
18:09	justin_smith	,(taco-bell-recipe)
18:09	clojurebot	"rice, sour cream, guacamole, tomatoes, lettuce, enchilada sauce"
18:09	justin_smith	sdegutis: yeah, thread-last would make that more readable
18:09	scottj	"Mexican Rice Bowls"
18:09	scottj	,(taco-bell-recipe)
18:09	clojurebot	"corn tortilla, tomatoes, beef, sour cream, cheese"
18:10	scottj	"Beef Taco"
18:10	sdegutis	anyway so mainly i just wanted to make that joke about how Bon Iver sounds like theres no lyrics
18:10	Glenjamin	please turn that into a 4clojure question somehow
18:10	justin_smith	Glenjamin: oh man
18:10	sdegutis	but also you should check out that FFVII Melancholy Tribute album its actually great for programmin to
18:10	TEttinger	I haven't found the no-lyrics music to be always a better option. last night I programmed a pretty sizable chunk of complex permutation-based java code while listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635qfYt8eyg
18:11	tolstoy	sdegutis I'm one of those people that almost never hears the lyrics as language.
18:11	sdegutis	tolstoy: you are so lucky
18:12	tolstoy	Yeah. People say they love this or that song, and I can't figure it. Turns out, they're talking about lyrics, and I'm talking about the music itself.
18:12	sdegutis	TEttinger: hmm, [retracted inappropriate joke]
18:12	sdegutis	tolstoy: oh yeah for sure, i half know what u mean
18:13	tolstoy	Thus, hip-hop is kinda just a bunch of men yelling at me.
18:13	lokien_	tolstoy: even in your native language?
18:14	tolstoy	lokien_ Yep. It's not that I don't understand the words, it's that I don't put them together in a meaninful way, unless I really try.
18:15	sdegutis	tolstoy: i dunno this is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mTtAh-KYW0
18:15	sdegutis	got kind of an epic feel, which is appropriate give nthe story it tells
18:15	tolstoy	I like, say, Cocteau Twins or Sigur Ros just fine, even though there's basically just voice-as-instrument.
18:15	lokien_	tolstoy: teach me your ways, sensei
18:15	tolstoy	Heh. ;) It's just genetic, or something.
18:16	justin_smith	,(defn taco-bell-recipe [] (->> (concat (->> ["flour tortilla" "corn tortilla" "chips" "gordita" "rice"] shuffle (take (rand-int 4))) (->> ["onions" "beans" "cheese" "beef" "chicken" "lettuce" "tomatoes" "enchilada sauce" "sour cream" "guacamole" "nacho cheese"] shuffle (take (rand-int 10)))) (clojure.string/join ", ")))
18:16	clojurebot	#'sandbox/taco-bell-recipe
18:16	sdegutis	"when he hit the scene, he commanded respect; he'd needed something done, and every hand hit the deck; took the first shot, and nobody fired back"
18:16	justin_smith	sdegutis: ^ fixed for you
18:16	tolstoy	Too distracted by the actual music? Grew up (to 13) in a house with only Classical?
18:16	justin_smith	,(taco-bell-recipe)
18:16	clojurebot	"corn tortilla, flour tortilla, rice, chicken, enchilada sauce, beans"
18:16	sdegutis	justin_smith: whoa too much thread-z now
18:16	sdegutis	justin_smith: that code brings tears to my eyes
18:17	justin_smith	,(taco-bell-recipe)
18:17	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: taco-bell-recipe in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: taco-bell-recipe in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve...
18:17	sdegutis	HAHHAHA
18:17	justin_smith	,(defn taco-bell-recipe [] (->> (concat (->> ["flour tortilla" "corn tortilla" "chips" "gordita" "rice"] shuffle (take (rand-int 4))) (->> ["onions" "beans" "cheese" "beef" "chicken" "lettuce" "tomatoes" "enchilada sauce" "sour cream" "guacamole" "nacho cheese"] shuffle (take (rand-int 10)))) (clojure.string/join ", ")))
18:17	clojurebot	#'sandbox/taco-bell-recipe
18:17	justin_smith	,(taco-bell-recipe)
18:17	clojurebot	"gordita, corn tortilla, chips, guacamole, enchilada sauce, sour cream, lettuce, beans, beef, chicken, cheese, tomatoes"
18:17	lokien_	tolstoy: I need to buy a piano
18:18	tolstoy	justin_smith: I think you're on to something. Start a .io domain and call y-combinator.
18:18	sdegutis	lokien_: also oxygen, dont forget oxygen
18:18	sdegutis	tolstoy: LOL man you guys are on a roll
18:19	justin_smith	tolstoy: for our C round funding we will expand to also cover Italian and Chinese foods
18:19	lokien_	sdegutis: I'm a lucky man, oxygen is free in my country
18:20	sdegutis	:D
18:20	tolstoy	mexican.menu.io
18:20	tolstoy	chinese.menu.io
18:20	justin_smith	tolstoy: and the best one, stoner.menu.io - which randomly pulls ingredients from all the others
18:20	tolstoy	By these 5 basic ingredients, never worry again.
18:20	tolstoy	Heh.
18:21	lokien_	justin_smith: don't forget 30$/mo pro subscription
18:21	tolstoy	Click this button, it creates the meal, messages the store, queries your inventory, phones your partner.
18:21	sdegutis	justin_smith: stoner is basically just clojure.core/random-sample
18:22	tolstoy	In fact, here's a little device with just a button on it. Pair it via bluetooth, then just push the button and wait.
18:22	sdegutis	,(random-sample 0.5 (range 10))
18:22	clojurebot	(2 3 4 8 9)
18:22	sdegutis	hahah nice
18:22	sdegutis	i never knew about this fn til 2day
18:22	tolstoy	stoner.menu.io: Blends whatever's left over, cooks, desiccates: cheesy puffs.
18:24	justin_smith	,(apply str (random-sample 0.1 (slurp "http://history.eserver.org/gettysburg-address.txt")))
18:24	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "denied"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.SecurityException\n :message "denied"\n :at [clojurebot.sandbox$enable_security_manager$fn__887 invoke "sandbox.clj" 69]}]\n :trace\n [[clojurebot.sandbox$enable_security_manager$fn__887 invoke "sandbox.clj" 69]\n [clojurebot.sandbox.proxy$java.lang.SecurityManager$Door$f500ea40 checkRead nil -1]\n [java.io.FileInputStream <init> "FileInp...
18:24	justin_smith	:P
18:25	justin_smith	anyway, that returned "T\rooa ileta \ree nacntdddcretoa toaet o\raills-afreeti.tt\rhlcn nrio lhgr te\r d Torwtl efereihted oc. tbdcaetarmh drntsers d-t sao l ronpeeopolrrhe--ableee- iter NPo)ryd,e svpr itig e nuto"
18:25	amalloy	oh, random-sample is a new one
18:25	sdegutis	amalloy: for sure, looks way handy
18:27	justin_smith	,(:added (meta #'random-sample))
18:28	clojurebot	"1.7"
18:28	sdegutis	yeah for sure, 1.7
18:29	sdegutis	justin_smith, amalloy: the implementation is amazing too
18:29	sdegutis	dont look at it, take a guess how it works
18:29	justin_smith	haha, too late
18:30	sdegutis	sorry
18:32	hiredman	I know
18:33	hiredman	random-sample is such an exciting addition
18:33	TEttinger	,(random-sample 1/7 (range 10))
18:33	clojurebot	(2 7)
18:35	sdegutis	haha so close
18:36	TEttinger	,(random-sample Math/PI (range 10))
18:36	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
18:36	TEttinger	,(random-sample (/ 1 Math/PI) (range 10))
18:36	clojurebot	(0 6 7 9)
18:36	TEttinger	it's hilarious that we have random-sample but not any way to seed the RNG
18:36	TEttinger	seems kinda handy for tests!
18:39	sdegutis	I HAVE AN IDEA
18:39	justin_smith	sdegutis: did you just invent test.generative?
18:42	srruby	I'm porting some code that doesn't loop through a sequence. I'm looking at using take-while and iterate or using for :while
18:43	srruby	Does it makes sense to use (for if you aren't going through a collection ?
18:43	justin_smith	srruby: well, it has to be a seq of some sort before for can use it
18:43	justin_smith	what is the source of data
18:44	amalloy	what a philosophical question
18:45	srruby	I'm doing some number crunching and repeatedly . Source is a single number that I'm factoring
18:45	sdegutis	,(let [n 1/7] (->> #(random-sample n (range 10)) (repeatedly) (map-indexed list) (filter (fn [[index item]] (and (> (count item) 1) (not (zero? (last item))) (= n (apply / item))))) (ffirst)))
18:45	clojurebot	4
18:45	sdegutis	pretty printed version https://gist.github.com/sdegutis/8b7e1c066645b288781d1921cce5a3e6
18:45	sdegutis	,(let [n 1/7] (->> #(random-sample n (range 10)) (repeatedly) (map-indexed list) (filter (fn [[index item]] (and (> (count item) 1) (not (zero? (last item))) (= n (apply / item))))) (ffirst)))
18:45	clojurebot	23
18:45	sdegutis	,(let [n 5/7] (->> #(random-sample n (range 10)) (repeatedly) (map-indexed list) (filter (fn [[index item]] (and (> (count item) 1) (not (zero? (last item))) (= n (apply / item))))) (ffirst)))
18:45	amalloy	what makes you think the result of repeatedly is not a sequence, srruby?
18:45	clojurebot	30859
18:45	sdegutis	WHOA
18:46	TEttinger	srruby: do you mean something like iterate ?
18:46	srruby	amalloy: Sorry for being unclear. I'm not using repeatedly.
18:47	srruby	amalloy: Thanks everyone, I guess I'll either use iterate or for. I'm porting a while loop.
18:48	justin_smith	srruby: are you trying to generate a collection or are you doing this for side effects?
18:48	justin_smith	if you aren't doing this in order to generate a collection, don't use for, if you don't need the return value, use doseq, if you need some other kind of result use reduce
18:48	srruby	justin_smith: Thanks everyone!
18:48	sdegutis	so, to be clear:
18:48	kwladyka	https://github.com/pelle/clauth or https://github.com/ddellacosta/friend-oauth2 or something else?
18:49	sdegutis	it took 30860 tries before (random-sample 5/7 [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]) returned [5 7]
18:51	sdegutis	,(defn times-to-get-to-fraction [n x] (->> #(random-sample n (range x)) (repeatedly) (map-indexed list) (filter (fn [[index item]] (and (> (count item) 1) (not (zero? (last item))) (= n (apply / item))))) (ffirst)))
18:51	clojurebot	#'sandbox/times-to-get-to-fraction
18:51	sdegutis	,(times-to-get-to-fraction 1/7 10)
18:51	clojurebot	111
18:51	sdegutis	,(times-to-get-to-fraction 1/7 100)
18:52	sdegutis	too mcuh broke bot
18:52	amalloy	.(apply * 5/7 5/7 (repeat 8 2/7) 1.0)
18:52	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
18:52	amalloy	,(apply * 5/7 5/7 (repeat 8 2/7) 1.0)
18:52	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Double"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.IllegalArgumentException\n :message "Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Double"\n :at [clojure.lang.RT seqFrom "RT.java" 542]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.lang.RT seqFrom "RT.java" 542]\n [clojure.lang.RT seq "RT.java" 523]\n [clojure.lang.RT cons "RT.java" 662]\n [clojure.core$cons__433...
18:52	sdegutis	amalloy: lol ur drunk thats a period
18:52	amalloy	,(apply * 1.0 5/7 5/7 (repeat 8 2/7))
18:52	clojurebot	2.2656852317705177E-5
18:52	amalloy	1/50000
18:52	amalloy	ish
18:54	sdegutis	amalloy: you work for cognitect right?
18:56	sdegutis	bbl she made delicious taco wrap things with chicken meat
18:56	sdegutis	i dunno or care what its called its good
18:59	TEttinger	mmm factoradic numbering is my favorite
19:05	tolstoy	Can you get openjdk 8 on the Mac these days?
19:10	TEttinger	tolstoy: yeah, Zulu
19:10	TEttinger	it's actually a really nice build
19:10	tolstoy	What's that?
19:11	tolstoy	H. This? https://hub.docker.com/r/azul/zulu-openjdk/
19:12	tolstoy	Ah: http://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/zulu-mac/
19:13	sdegutis	tolstoy: did you get your openjdk8 q answered
19:13	sdegutis	i have oracle java sdk 8 installed and its such a pita
19:13	tolstoy	I think so.
19:13	sdegutis	it pops up every few days telilng me to upgrade my java and im like shut up
19:13	tolstoy	Ah, the java browser plugin thing.
19:13	sdegutis	similar to https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-01/20/11/enhanced/webdr15/enhanced-14111-1453306596-2.png but not 100%
19:16	tolstoy	sdegutis Every use /usr/libexec/java_home?
19:17	tolstoy	With -V?
19:17	tolstoy	Hm. If you add -v 1.8, it'll find the most recent (this zulu thing for me).
19:18	tolstoy	AND, it has startcom certs. ;)
19:18	sdegutis	tolstoy: i never touch java via cmdline
19:18	sdegutis	tolstoy: my only interaction with java is either via clojure or via some .pkg file
19:19	sdegutis	that said, i enjoy using java 1.8 apis like LocalDateTime (sooo nice)
19:19	tolstoy	sdegutis It's possible to have multiple versions on OSX, so that util can be used to set JAVA_HOME to the right one.
19:19	sdegutis	cool
19:20	tolstoy	It never comes up if you just use the latest oracle one.
19:24	noethics	are there any decent libraries for bytecode engineering
19:24	noethics	specifically for clojure
19:25	tolstoy	noethics: Probably not what you were thinking of, but https://github.com/clojure/tools.emitter.jvm. ;)
19:26	TEttinger	doesn't one of ztellman's libs do that? gloss?
19:26	sdegutis	yeah i was gonna say, if anyone did it its ztellman
19:26	tolstoy	That's for working with bytes, but noethics said bytecode.
19:26	noethics	jvm bytecode
19:26	hiredman	I've only ever used asm (the library the clojure compiler uses) to generate bytecode
19:26	noethics	this is interesting but not useful to me :P
19:27	noethics	yeah i would prefer some clojure wrapper for asm
19:27	tolstoy	Yeah.
19:28	hiredman	https://github.com/hiredman/bc/blob/master/src/bc/core.clj is a badly written classfile parser written in clojure
19:28	noethics	lol
19:28	hiredman	along with some completely nonsensical ruby code generting stuff
19:29	hiredman	(I think I wanted to translate some bytecode into ruby for reasons)
19:29	noethics	i feel liek there could be some really nice wrapper for asm in clojure
19:29	hiredman	I dunno, I have't found asm to be very terrible to use directly
19:29	noethics	it's pretty terrible to use by itself ime :P
19:32	kwladyka	I am looking the best OAuth 2 solution for Clojure. I found some solutions, but i am not sure about functionality. I need connect as a client to authorisation-app, and later with the same client to another app with token to get some resources.
19:32	kwladyka	Can you share some experience about OAuth 2 in Clojure?
19:34	kwladyka	(i need to client both sided, client and server authorisation, also app to get resources)
19:39	kwladyka	mmm time to sleep, i will think about that tomorrow :)
19:40	sdegutis	bbl
19:48	hiredman	I seem to recall someone doing their own port of the clojure compiler a few years back, and they wrote their own assembler for it
19:53	hiredman	someone already mentioned tools.emitter.jvm, which a data based syntax like https://github.com/clojure/tools.emitter.jvm/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/emitter/jvm/emit.clj#L400-L426 and then has code to use that to drive asm
20:00	noethics	i need to do some analysis too
20:01	noethics	not just write instructions :P
20:03	noethics	but i think there could be some nice clojure way of making my own ast with just asm
20:04	noethics	i can only thing of doing that with lists of classnodes though. visitor pattern would be best i assume?
22:01	sdegutis	I think a function like if-let with multiple sequentially bound bindings like let would be useful.
22:02	sdegutis	It would be kind of like some->
22:02	sdegutis	In the sense that it would continue as long as none of the bindings were nil, but short-circuiting.
22:02	sdegutis	some-let
22:03	sdegutis	This may be the first and only general-purpose macro that I'm actually considering implementing for myself if clojure.core doesn't end up with it.
22:06	sdegutis	I'm going to assume that justin_smith's going to say that amalloy_ has already implemented this in flatland/useful.
22:13	Lewis	what makes code data? this concept is still abstract to me
22:15	sdegutis	Lewis: watch
22:16	hiredman	,(type (read-string "(def x 1)"))
22:16	sdegutis	,'(+ 1 2)
22:16	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
22:16	clojurebot	(+ 1 2)
22:16	sdegutis	,(first '(+ 1 2))
22:16	clojurebot	+
22:16	sdegutis	,(second '(+ 1 2))
22:16	clojurebot	1
22:16	sdegutis	,(type (first '(+ 1 2)))
22:16	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
22:16	sdegutis	,((juxt identity type) (first '(+ 1 2)))
22:16	clojurebot	[+ clojure.lang.Symbol]
22:16	Lewis	so what makes it data?
22:16	sdegutis	Anyway, it's done. Here:
22:16	Lewis	as opposed to what
22:17	sdegutis	Lewis: try representing Ruby code as Ruby data
22:17	sdegutis	,(defmacro some-let [bindings body] (let [[x y & rest] bindings] `(if-let [~x ~y] ~(if (empty? rest) body `(some-let ~(vec rest) ~body)))))
22:17	clojurebot	#'sandbox/some-let
22:17	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1, b (do (prn :a a) (inc a)), c (do (prn :b b) (inc b))] :bla)
22:17	clojurebot	:a 1\n:b 2\n:bla
22:17	Lewis	sdegutis: simple example please. I'm picked up clojure today again after a long hiatus
22:18	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1, b (do (prn :a a) nil), c (do (prn :b b) (inc b))] :bla)
22:18	clojurebot	:a 1\n
22:18	Lewis	s/example/examples*
22:18	sdegutis	Sweet, it works!!!
22:18	Lewis	can you just say in words what make it data
22:18	sdegutis	Lewis: Sorry, my some-let macro wasn't an example intended for you. This is though:
22:19	sdegutis	Lewis: watch how reverse works:
22:19	sdegutis	,(reverse [1 2 3])
22:19	clojurebot	(3 2 1)
22:19	sdegutis	Lewis: With me so far?
22:19	Lewis	ok?
22:19	Lewis	i am
22:19	sdegutis	Lewis: now is it clear to you how this function call works?
22:19	Lewis	you reversed a vector
22:19	sdegutis	,(+ 1 2 3)
22:19	clojurebot	6
22:20	Lewis	you summed up a list
22:20	sdegutis	Lewis: so what happens if I do this?
22:20	sdegutis	(3 2 1 +)
22:20	Lewis	error
22:20	sdegutis	Lewis: what will that last form evaluate to?
22:20	sdegutis	And why?
22:20	Lewis	because the first operator should be a function
22:20	sdegutis	Right. But if it were reversed, it would be fine, right?
22:20	Lewis	first argument*
22:21	Lewis	yes
22:21	sdegutis	Lewis: Now what do you think this is?
22:21	sdegutis	,(quote (+ 1 2 3))
22:21	clojurebot	(+ 1 2 3)
22:21	hiredman	the clojure code (let [x 1] 1) is a list first the symbol let as its first element, say in javascript the code might be var x = 1; return 1, what data structure is that code? it isn't one
22:21	sdegutis	hiredman: shut up im having fun here
22:21	sdegutis	Lewis: no need to guess, watch:
22:21	sdegutis	,(type (quote (+ 1 2 3)))
22:21	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
22:21	sdegutis	,(map type (quote (+ 1 2 3)))
22:21	clojurebot	(clojure.lang.Symbol java.lang.Long java.lang.Long java.lang.Long)
22:22	hiredman	ocaml let x = 1 in 1, what data structure is that code?
22:22	sdegutis	It's a List of a Symbol followed by 3 Longs.
22:22	sdegutis	Lewis: with me so far?
22:22	hiredman	clojure code is made up of datastructure literals, and only datastructure literals
22:22	sdegutis	Lewis: now watch this
22:22	sdegutis	,(defmacro postfox [form] (reverse form))
22:22	clojurebot	#'sandbox/postfox
22:22	sdegutis	,(postfox (3 2 1 +))
22:22	clojurebot	6
22:23	sdegutis	Lewis: see?
22:23	Lewis	tchip
22:23	Lewis	dude
22:23	sdegutis	Hm?
22:23	Lewis	just tell me with words
22:23	hiredman	the syntax of clojure is the syntax of a datastructure notation, like json (but richer)
22:23	sdegutis	Lewis: I just told you in a way more clear way than words.
22:23	sdegutis	Lewis: Just like drawing a circle is a way better way of demonstrating what a circle is than trying to explain it.
22:23	Lewis	i clearly dont see the point , i realized that my issue might be with the definition of data
22:24	sdegutis	Lewis: did you see how that macro just now worked?
22:24	Lewis	why code is data? can't you put it in words ?
22:24	Lewis	I dont understand macro yet
22:24	sdegutis	Lewis: Because Clojure expressions are homoiconic.
22:24	hiredman	code is data because the code is written in datastructure literals (list literals, vector literals, symbols, etc)
22:25	Lewis	hiredman: ok, let me ask it another way, why is that a language like ruby code is not data
22:25	Lewis	or javascript
22:25	sdegutis	Lewis: the fact that code is data is only applicable in macros
22:25	sdegutis	hiredman: I give up, have fun with this.
22:25	hiredman	lewis: they have syntax that is not a datastructure
22:26	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1 b nil c 2] a)
22:26	clojurebot	nil
22:26	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1 b 3 c 2] a)
22:26	clojurebot	1
22:26	sdegutis	Woo!!
22:26	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1, b nil, c (prn :c)] a)
22:26	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: some-let in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: some-let in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: some-le...
22:26	sdegutis	Aww.
22:26	sdegutis	,(defmacro some-let [bindings body] (let [[x y & rest] bindings] `(if-let [~x ~y] ~(if (empty? rest) body `(some-let ~(vec rest) ~body)))))
22:26	clojurebot	#'sandbox/some-let
22:26	hiredman	for example, what datastructure is var x = 1? the equivilant clojure expression is represented as a list and a vector and a symbol and a number (let [x 1])
22:26	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1, b nil, c (prn :c)] a)
22:26	clojurebot	nil
22:26	sdegutis	WOO!!
22:26	sdegutis	,(some-let [a 1, b 2, c (prn :c)] a)
22:26	clojurebot	:c\n
22:27	sdegutis	Exciting times.
22:27	sdegutis	hiredman: what do you think of this macro?
22:27	sdegutis	some-let
22:27	hiredman	for javascript to have code as data, you would have to get rid of all the javascript syntax that is not json, and figure out how to represent that syntax in json
22:28	Lewis	hiredman: thank you i got it
22:29	Lewis	so the fact that code is data just mean that the source code is data structure on top of data structures. list of lists of symbols
22:30	hiredman	you can say just, but it makes different kinds of meta programming much nicer
22:31	hiredman	because the same tools you use to manipulate data (maps, sets, vectors, lists) can be used to manipulate code
22:31	Lewis	right
22:31	Lewis	which make sense
22:31	Lewis	thanks i got it. i personally think that a word explanation speak louder than code in this instance (nto always the case)
22:31	Lewis	not*
22:44	sdegutis	I just aid that.
22:44	sdegutis	*said
22:44	sdegutis	Man never mind, that's the last time I try to help.
23:13	sdegutis	Hi.
23:27	troydm	is it possible to traverse transient sequence? and destructure it?
23:34	troydm	or rather is there any efficient way going over sequence and modifiying elements of it recursively but with a way to stop at any given point with all previous modifications intact
23:34	troydm	something like a map but with a way to bailout
23:35	troydm	or actually not map since I want to process atleast 6 elements per each iteration
23:35	troydm	I'm thinking of doing destructuring and then doing into
23:36	troydm	(into [a b c d e] rst) or something like that
23:36	troydm	but I don't know if it's effiecient or not