#clojure – 2016-01-25

2016-01-25

02:06	amalloy	domokato: you need a function like (include-range existing-range-list new-range), and then you just reduce that over the input sequence like justin_smith was saying
02:07	amalloy	wow apparently that was several hours ago though. i bet you figured it out by now
02:56	MONODA	Found out what the issue was
02:57	MONODA	I had some weirdness in my emacs init
02:57	MONODA	That was causing the cider-refresh function to be remapped
02:57	MONODA	I dont know why the issue didnt appear before though
03:43	lxsameer	Is it logical to store the current leader of cluster in an atom ?
04:15	vkngpmhc	1
04:27	arcatan	1
04:49	loophole	2?
05:01	qsys	well, 3?
05:02	algernon	42, clearly
05:03	ridcully	no the next number is 5
05:05	algernon	but 42 is the ultimate answer
05:33	lxsameer	how can i add a java package to my project ?
05:33	MasseR	Add it to project.clj?
05:34	lxsameer	how ?
05:34	lxsameer	MasseR, same as clojure packages?
05:34	MasseR	Yes
05:34	MasseR	lein is just a wrapper over maven
05:35	powered	lxsameer, does this answer your question: http://stackoverflow.com/q/2404426
05:35	MasseR	http://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails\|org.apache.commons\|commons-jci\|1.1\|jar lxsameer for example
05:35	MasseR	Check the 'leiningen' tab
05:35	lxsameer	thanks folks
06:14	noncom	is there any core function to transform values of a {}? i know i can use reduce, but just wonder if there's anything inbuilt.. or if there's none, then how would you do that?
06:14	noncom	for examply, i do a (group-by) and want to transorm the []s in the values into their counts
06:15	luma	(defn map-values [f m] (into (empty m) (for [[k v] m] [k (f v))))
06:15	luma	this what you mean?
06:15	noncom	yeah, like that
06:16	noncom	as i see, your solution is a bit different, but much of the similar idea
06:17	noncom	ofcourse, there's probably no other way to even organize that, but no inbuilt function there is
06:18	luma	no, nothing inbuilt
06:18	lxsameer	guys, my app would have a web interface using ring/compojure and and other daemon like process to do lots of background jobs, how can i handle both in one project ?
06:24	schmir	lxsameer: I'm using chime to run background jobs in a cron-like fashion
06:26	schmir	I just call chime/chime-at before starting the HTTP server
06:26	lxsameer	schmir, hmmm I kinda have a event loop, and the web section should be a side thread
06:26	lxsameer	schmir, can i see your code ? is it opensource ?
06:30	schmir	it's really just (do (chime/chime-at ...) (httpkit/run-server ...))
06:31	schmir	do you need to know how to start that "side thread"?
06:38	lxsameer	schmir, hmm so you use httpkit directly , but what if i use something like nginx
06:39	yunfan	schmir: interesting, i just met the author at 2013
06:41	schmir	lxsameer: what does use nginx mean here? nginx like in nginx-clojure? nginx as proxy?
06:56	lxsameer	schmir, nginx it self
06:59	loophole	lxsameer: build rpm/deb packages with dependencies to nginx?
07:00	lxsameer	loophole, no, I'm using nginx in my server and what if i want to use clojure to server my web section
07:03	schmir	lxsameer: I guess you need to configure nginx as a HTTP proxy then. I'm not even sure what you're problem is. that now looks quite different from your original question.
07:06	lxsameer	schmir, thanks man
07:10	yunfan	lxsameer: or configure a haproxy which use your clojure service as the backend
07:21	lxsameer	yunfan, that seems fun
07:29	yunfan	lxsameer: why its fun?
07:32	lxsameer	yunfan, by fun i meant interesting
07:33	yunfan	lxsameer: okay, sorry for misunderstanding, english is not my native
07:33	lxsameer	yunfan, me to buddy
07:34	yunfan	lxsameer: where are you from?
07:34	lxsameer	yunfan, unfortunately Iran
07:34	yunfan	lxsameer: lol i come from china. we are all in the same hell
07:35	lxsameer	yunfan, exactly
07:35	yunfan	lxsameer: but iran recently just release the banning for youtube, this made us the last country
07:36	lxsameer	yunfan, no that was temporary buddy, our filternet is the worst
07:37	yunfan	lxsameer: really? i thought we are the worst, can you reach google/facebook/twitter or even linode?
07:38	lxsameer	yunfan, only google, but they do man in middle to sniff traffic with fake ssl cert
07:38	qsys	well, have visited both Iran and China, and I though China was worse...
07:39	yunfan	lxsameer: then you are better than us
07:39	yunfan	lxsameer: and sorry that chinese goverment has export that filternet to your goverment
07:39	lxsameer	yunfan, :)) thanks man, i hope i can run away from my country
07:39	qsys	although that might've been that is was easier in Iran to get around it
07:39	yunfan	lxsameer: if you are looking for another proxy other than vpn, you could check shadowsocks, its opensource in github
07:39	lxsameer	qsys, really ?
07:40	lxsameer	yunfan, yeah i'm using it right now
07:40	yunfan	qsys: yep, but we chinese are different look than iran if we go to westen country
07:41	yunfan	lxsameer: also a chinese tool. we are the center of evil :D
07:41	lxsameer	yunfan, :))
07:41	qsys	:)
07:42	yunfan	maybe one day i should go to au, where i can still do business with my chinese fellows and enjoy the freedom at the sametime (though its not much free than usa)
11:59	lokien	what is an idiomatic way of getting this value out? [:keyword {:key value}]
12:05	gfredericks	,(get-in [:keyword {:key "VALUE"}] [1 :key])
12:05	clojurebot	"VALUE"
12:05	gfredericks	,(-> [:keyword {:key "VALUE"}] second :key)
12:05	clojurebot	"VALUE"
12:05	gfredericks	,(-> [:keyword {:key "VALUE"}] (get 1) :key)
12:05	clojurebot	"VALUE"
12:06	lokien	can I destructure it?
12:07	lokien	I don't get map destructuring at all
12:08	tolstoy	,(let [[_ {:keys [key]}] [:keyword {:key "value"}]] key]
12:08	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]>
12:08	tolstoy	,(let [[_ {:keys [key]}] [:keyword {:key "value"}]] key)
12:08	clojurebot	"value"
12:09	lokien	thanks tolstoy, I'll try it
12:10	tolstoy	I use the [:key {:a 1 :b 2}] pattern a lot.
12:11	tolstoy	Usually, I destructure it as (let [[topic data] msg] ... )
12:11	tolstoy	Then (case topic :this-msg (do-something data) ...).
12:11	tolstoy	do-something is a function that destructures:
12:12	tolstoy	(defn do-something [{:keys [a b] :as msg}] ...)
12:12	lokien	welp, it works. key in {:keys [key]} is just a name I give to the value, right?
12:13	lokien	yeah, it is
12:13	ridcully	key there will fetch you :key from that map
12:14	tolstoy	The names in :keys has to match up with actual keys in the map.
12:14	ridcully	same like (let [key {:key map}]) basically
12:14	tolstoy	If you want new names, there's a different destructuring form.
12:16	lokien	,(let [[_ {:keys [something]}] [:keyword {:key "value"}]] something)
12:16	clojurebot	nil
12:16	lokien	uh
12:17	ridcully	there is no :something in that map
12:17	lokien	yeah, I just wanted to check
12:17	tolstoy	,(let [[_ {foo :key}] [:keyword {:key "value"}]] foo)
12:17	clojurebot	"value"
12:18	tolstoy	In the above, you can bind the value of :key to the name "foo". That's how you extract out new names rather than just the keys.
12:19	lokien	that's what I wanted it to be like, thank you tolstoy
12:47	Kamuela	Is the do operator kind of like data with a side effect of running it?
12:57	mavbozo	,(do (inc 1) (inc 2)))
12:57	clojurebot	3
12:58	mavbozo	Kamuela, above do contains no side-effect
12:58	mavbozo	it just returns the result of the last expression
13:02	Kamuela	mavbozo: I am trying to understand do within an if, function? Form?
13:03	tolstoy	do evaluates its parameters, returning the value of the last one.
13:04	Kamuela	So it's almost almost the equivalent of just throwing in another pair of parentheses
13:04	Kamuela	if that were valid
13:04	tolstoy	Yeah, like { ... } in other languages.
13:04	loophole	Kamuela: yep
13:04	loophole	(if (= 1 2) (do (println "WHAT?!?") :its_true) (do (println "ok") :everything_normal))
13:05	Kamuela	Thank you all
13:13	mavbozo	i just recently found out that the body of a let form is implicitly wrapped in do block
13:13	mavbozo	so i could do this (let [a 1] (println a) a) instead of (let [a 1] (do (println a) a))
13:13	tolstoy	So is `when`.
13:14	pilne	isn't when just a macro for "if - do"
13:15	tolstoy	Yep: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/010864f8ed828f8d261807b7345f1a539c5b20df/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L493
13:17	ridcully	,(macroexpand '(when true :x))
13:17	clojurebot	(if true (do :x))
13:17	mavbozo	,(doc when)
13:17	clojurebot	"([test & body]); Evaluates test. If logical true, evaluates body in an implicit do."
13:17	mavbozo	,(doc let)
13:17	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); binding => binding-form init-expr Evaluates the exprs in a lexical context in which the symbols in the binding-forms are bound to their respective init-exprs or parts therein."
13:19	mavbozo	when's doc states the "implicit do" while let's doc does not. that what makes me used do in let's body
13:20	pilne	i can see that, i just figured that for what let does, it makes sense that it is implied (and the tutorials i've read never used do inside let).
13:21	mavbozo	wow great!, now http://clojure.org/reference/special_forms#let states the "implicit do"
13:23	WorldsEndless	I need a java.lang.String[] and my clojure.lang.PersistentVector isn't cutting it. How should I get the string array?
13:23	mavbozo	fn docs also states the "implicit do" http://clojure.org/reference/special_forms#fn
13:24	loophole	WorldsEndless: (byte-array (map byte "foo bar baz"))
13:24	tolstoy	WorldsEndless: Maybe into-array?
13:25	WorldsEndless	So what I'm starting with is the result of string split command, but I need it a string[] for interop purposes. Reading on into-array now
13:25	tolstoy	,(type ["a" "b"])
13:25	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector
13:25	loophole	WorldsEndless: uhh i shot to fast :) you need a string
13:25	tolstoy	,(type (into-array ["a" "b"]))
13:25	clojurebot	[Ljava.lang.String;
13:26	Kamuela	Interesting about all these macros. Is there a list of only baser forms? Ones that form the indivisible parts of other combos?
13:27	WorldsEndless	Ah! into-array seems to do it . Thanks!
13:29	pilne	Kamuela:: at the bottom here there is a list (partial?) of the built-in macros, and i'm pretty sure a macro can contain any valid function, but i'm still learning about them.
13:30	justin_smith	Kamuela: the closest thing we have to "baser forms" is special forms, which are defined in java and not clojure itself
13:30	justin_smith	everything else is defined in clojure
13:30	justin_smith	,(special-form? if)
13:30	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: special-form? in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: special-form? in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbo...
13:31	justin_smith	,(special-symbol? 'if)
13:31	clojurebot	true
13:31	justin_smith	it fibs a bit
13:31	justin_smith	,(special-symbol? 'let)
13:31	clojurebot	false
13:31	justin_smith	,(special-symbol? 'let*)
13:31	clojurebot	true
13:31	justin_smith	oh! it's more accurate than I remembered
13:31	justin_smith	,(special-symbol? 'fn)
13:31	clojurebot	false
13:32	justin_smith	,(special-symbol? 'fn*)
13:32	clojurebot	true
13:33	Howling	,(+ 2 3)
13:33	clojurebot	5
13:33	loophole	Kamuela: everytime I think I need a macro I think again ;)
13:33	mavbozo	,(special-symbol? '+)
13:33	clojurebot	false
13:33	mavbozo	,(special-symbol? 'ns)
13:33	clojurebot	false
13:35	justin_smith	mavbozo: ever look at the source of ns? it's kind of crazy
13:35	loophole	justin_smith: looks like he's gone
13:36	justin_smith	loophole: huh, was here when the name tab-completed I guess
13:36	rcassidy	doesn't clojure's let function like let* anyway? coming from scheme
13:36	rcassidy	or does the splat take a different meaning?
13:37	rcassidy	,(let [a 5 b a] b)
13:37	clojurebot	5
13:37	justin_smith	rcassidy: in clojure the trailing splat usually means "this is an implementation detail of the one without the splat"
13:37	rcassidy	ah.
13:37	justin_smith	rcassidy: eg fn* for fn, let* for let, in both cases the difference is that the one without the splat has destructuring of its bindings
13:38	rcassidy	so it's basically like, "you probably won't need to call this version"
13:38	justin_smith	and the one with the splat is a special form from the java side of the code
13:38	justin_smith	right
13:38	rcassidy	cool, thanks.
13:38	justin_smith	rcassidy: but...
13:38	justin_smith	,'#()
13:38	clojurebot	(fn* [] ())
13:38	rcassidy	,(fn* [] ())
13:38	clojurebot	#object[sandbox$eval288$fn__289 0x4b418dd0 "sandbox$eval288$fn__289@4b418dd0"]
13:38	justin_smith	they can make a decent macro expansion if you know you won't be using destructuring due to the macro
13:38	rcassidy	makes sense!
13:39	rcassidy	thanks :)
13:41	rcassidy	in scheme, bindings in a single let statement aren't bound in sequence, so you can't do (let ([a 5] [b a]) ...)
13:41	rcassidy	that's what let* is for :p
13:41	rcassidy	and letrec for recursive bindings.
13:41	justin_smith	right
13:41	justin_smith	similar in common lisp as well
13:45	m1dnight_	How can I wait in my main method for all my threads to finish?
13:45	m1dnight_	My main method ends instantly but in the meanwhile it fires a few threads that are actually my main program.
13:45	loophole	justin_smith: this did supris me however: (let [x 2 x 3] x)
13:45	justin_smith	loophole: that's just shadowing though
13:46	justin_smith	,(let [x 2 y x x 3] [x y])
13:46	clojurebot	[3 2]
13:46	justin_smith	see, the original value is still there
13:46	loophole	justin_smith: ahh that makes sense
13:46	tolstoy	m1dnight_: You can use a promise. (let [p (promise)] (start-threads) @p)
13:46	tolstoy	m1dnight_: One of those threads could "deliver" to the promise to end the app.
13:46	m1dnight_	The thing is, the threads are a few fucntion calls away
13:47	justin_smith	m1dnight_: if you use futures or agents, clojure will already wait to shut down (you need (shutdown-agents) or System/exit to force actual shutdown)
13:47	m1dnight_	Im using bear threads :<
13:47	rcassidy	roar
13:47	m1dnight_	bare? Just java threads.
13:47	justin_smith	m1dnight_: then don't set them daemon
13:47	justin_smith	if they are not set as daemon, your main will wait for them
13:48	tolstoy	Is this a long running process, or a run it and die when done process?
13:48	m1dnight_	Odd, they are not explicitly set as daemon threads.
13:48	m1dnight_	Yes, it is a process that will run for years if all goes well :p
13:48	m1dnight_	Its my irc bot. I have a loop that listens for messages from the irc/slack server.
13:48	m1dnight_	I dont know why it worked in my previous version. Im rebuilding it and I just noticed this.
13:48	tolstoy	In that case, I use the "promise" in the main method, then use a shutdown hook to deliver the message to break the promise.
13:48	justin_smith	m1dnight_: you can use the .isDaemon method to see if they have daemon status
13:50	Guest44358	i was at the clojure conj 2013 - and remember a talk that was about bringing systems together by using schemas. Anyone happen to know who the speaker was?
13:50	justin_smith	m1dnight_: anyway, if you call the .join method on the thread, that won't return until that thread finishes
13:50	Guest44358	it wasn't the _prismatic_ schema talk though
13:50	tolstoy	(.addShtudownHook (Runtime/getRuntime) (Thread. #(deliver p :release)))
13:51	tolstoy	when you kill the process, that hook gets invoked.
13:51	m1dnight_	Daemon thread? false
13:51	m1dnight_	Oddly enough they are not set as daemons.
13:52	m1dnight_	Okay I will hold off on fixing this issue then. thread/sleep $supermanyalot will do the trick for dev atm
13:52	justin_smith	and they are erroneously being stopped when main exits?
13:52	justin_smith	m1dnight_: (.join t)
13:52	Guest44358	ah Jen Smith! thanks Google :)
13:53	tolstoy	m1dnight_: Using the promise is the cleanest, but you could also start a do-nothing thread and use that machinery justin_smith is talking about.
13:53	justin_smith	tolstoy: I am talking about calling .join as the last line of -main, so that -main does not exit until that thread does
13:54	justin_smith	no need for a do-nothing thread
13:54	tolstoy	justin_smith: I still like my little promise method better. Just seems so much cleaner, or at least clearer.
13:55	justin_smith	tolstoy: .join is very clear - it means "wait for this thread to exit"
13:55	tolstoy	justin_smith: I used to solve this prob using Object.wait() and .notify().
13:55	justin_smith	which is exactly the thing we want
13:56	tolstoy	How do you clean things up when you send a die signal via the OS?
13:56	tolstoy	Anyway, nevermind. I don't care. ;)
13:57	loophole	rcassidy: bear threads... Now I have this picture of a rasta bear in my head
13:58	justin_smith	tolstoy: to be honest, I never use an OS where anything I am doing in my clojure code matters after the shutdown signal
13:59	justin_smith	I mean I guess if I was doing something fancier than I do now with the db or ipc, I might have to clean that up, but right now it's zookeeper, which assumes "you are gone and irrelevant" if you miss a ping, so no cleanup needed
13:59	justin_smith	tolstoy: but I guess I'd have to go into that rabbit hole if I ever used a resource that wouldn't cleanly be disposed of on vm death
13:59	tolstoy	I like the idea of starting up components (or whatever), then registering a shutdown hook that calls "stop" on them when the JVM goes down under normal circumstances.
13:59	justin_smith	but that seems an entirely separate question
14:00	justin_smith	tolstoy: but what component actually needs that if the whole vm is going down?
14:00	tolstoy	Most of the time, all stop does is print out a message.
14:01	justin_smith	frankly, if I had something that needed cleaned up on vm shutdown, I wouldn't trust any aspect of the vm itself to do it (I guess this might be overly cynical)
14:01	loophole	justin_smith: finally :)
14:02	tolstoy	So you just (.join (Thread/currentThread)) at the end of your main?
14:02	justin_smith	tolstoy: absolutely not - he was talking about waiting for another thread - his vm was exiting too early
14:03	justin_smith	so I am saying if what you want is to wait for thread t to finish before normal exit, then call (.join t)
14:03	justin_smith	which is precisely what the .join method is for
14:03	tolstoy	But he also said he wanted a long-running process, so I figured that what he really wanted was a way to keep the JVM from terminating. The fact that there are threads in the background was incidental.
14:04	loophole	is there an advantage in using java threads vs futures?
14:04	tolstoy	(while try (Thread/sleep 100000)) works too, I guess (which he said he's doing).
14:05	justin_smith	loophole: they are slightly simpler? not much of one that I know of.
14:05	loophole	I try to get by with the clojure abstractions. and so far it suites me well
14:07	loophole	justin_smith: I mean there's a reason I use clojure and not java... :)
14:24	TimMc	justin_smith: cassandra in particular is a DB designed to be shutdown with kill -9 -- I like that philosophy
14:24	justin_smith	heh, nice
14:24	justin_smith	TimMc: this relies on things like not running cassandra on Windows I assume...
14:24	TimMc	Maybe.
14:24	loophole	TimMc: isn't cassandra a pure in memory database?
14:25	TimMc	no
14:25	TimMc	justin_smith: Does Windows not have a reliable flush command?
14:25	TimMc	because i think that's the one essential thing
14:27	justin_smith	TimMc: I have heard tell of resource leaks on unclean shutdowns, but this could be old info about outdated versions
14:28	TimMc	loophole: Maybe you're thinking of HSQLDB? But that one also can be disk-backed.
14:28	tolstoy	Well, and we were talking at cross purposes. 1) how do you keep the JVM up for long-running servers? 2) how do you make a thread block shutdown?
14:29	TimMc	justin_smith: On Cassandra? Wouldn't surprise me too much. There are some pretty bad bugs in old versions.
14:29	justin_smith	for 1) I use jsvc
14:30	justin_smith	TimMc: with various programs on windows - where a *nix would reclaim all process resources reliably, but like I said this could be out of date info
14:30	loophole	TimMc: how do they manage to catch sigkill? just curious
14:30	justin_smith	and I guess there are things like shm that even on a *nix you can't reliably reclaim automatically
14:30	justin_smith	loophole: I think the point is they don't catch it - the app is written so that an unclean kill won't hurt anything
14:33	TimMc	Yeah, you can just remove the Cassandra process, and when you start it next time, it recovers from journals.
14:33	tolstoy	loophole: java.lang.Runtime/addShutdownHook lets you invoke methods on JVM shutdown.
14:34	TimMc	I regard this sort of thing as baseline functionality. My laptop runs out of battery all the time -- everything should work this way.
14:34	loophole	justin_smith: ahh thats interesting. that makes it quite challenging to perform a write on disk. the only possible way i can think of is to write it in a temporary file and then perform a copy operation
14:34	TimMc	tolstoy: Won't help with kill -9 :-)
14:34	tolstoy	loophole: Works for sigs outside of kill -9, anyway.
14:34	loophole	tolstoy: not a sigkill. sigkill
14:34	loophole	tolstoy: :)
14:34	tolstoy	No, that's right.
14:34	TimMc	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4
14:35	tolstoy	I figure if you're using kill -9 to kill something, it's stuck anyway.
14:35	TimMc	(content warning: overly nerdy rap)
14:35	loophole	tolstoy: or a script hacked by an admin that just wants to be sure...
14:35	justin_smith	tolstoy: it could be using too much ram, it could be trying to use a disk that is full...
14:36	TimMc	If you kill Cassandra it a normal way it does a little cleanup so that startup can be fast.
14:36	justin_smith	or that even
14:39	tolstoy	Yeah. In other words, under normal circumstances (re-starting after an upgrade), you can run a hook to clean things up (if you want), but under circumstances where kill -9 is necessary, you already have bigger problems.
14:41	tolstoy	Anyway, I like to call "stop" on all my components, necessary or not. It just feels good. ;)
14:41	loophole	tolstoy: jep I was just curious how its done since TimMc wrote < TimMc> justin_smith: cassandra in particular is a DB designed to be shutdown with kill -9
14:41	justin_smith	loophole: multi-step writes
14:42	justin_smith	loophole: any reliable db needs to be doing multi-step writes anyway
14:43	loophole	justin_smith: so my guess "write to a temporary file" was not to far off
14:43	justin_smith	loophole: idea being that you don't commit until the full transaction is done, and any state that isn't fully transacted is still a valid state
14:43	justin_smith	loophole: it's a very fancy version of that, yes :)
14:44	loophole	justin_smith: :)
14:45	loophole	justin_smith: who needs fancy anyway
14:45	loophole	:)
14:47	loophole	justin_smith: but this means that it is not an extraordinary feature when it comes to databases. that's what every mature database should do anyways
14:47	justin_smith	loophole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_commit_protocol
14:47	loophole	justin_smith: thx
14:48	justin_smith	loophole: well, you'd be surprised about mongo (or not)
14:48	loophole	justin_smith: i played around with it. so... no ;)
14:48	justin_smith	it's the old CAP thing
14:49	justin_smith	cassandra seems to go for C while mongo for A
14:49	justin_smith	wait, does mongo even do A? it might just be P and throw hands in the air about AC, I forget.
14:50	matthavener	afaik, mongo does leader election for single writer (some C, no A), and cassandra can do A since its a dynamo style DB
14:51	TimMc	"some C", yes...
14:51	justin_smith	haha
14:51	matthavener	for a given definition of 'consistent' :)
14:52	matthavener	as usual, aphyr has some interesting writings on all those definitions. this pic is a rabbit hole in itself https://aphyr.com/data/posts/313/family-tree.jpg
14:52	loophole	justin_smith: any ideas regarding orientdb? I want to use it as a basis for my next OS project.
14:52	justin_smith	loophole: I looked into it very briefly, didn't use it in anger
14:52	justin_smith	matthavener: nice!
14:54	loophole	justin_smith: ok. needs a (working) clojure binding. maybe I will do it
14:55	loophole	justin_smith: just want to know if it's worth the hassle
14:55	justin_smith	loophole: cool, I still have some open questions about databases due to the demands of the project I am working on
14:55	justin_smith	loophole: sorry I don't have more info
14:58	loophole	justin_smith: It was worth a try :)
15:41	loophole	justin_smith: still around?
15:45	loophole	i need an opinion. i'm playing around with a graphdb that uses an sql dialect. my aproach to it looks like this:
15:45	justin_smith	yo
15:45	loophole	(select [:name :birthday] ($from :persons) ($where ($= :name "hans")))
15:46	loophole	which then is converted to a string "select name,birthday from persons where name = 'hans'"
15:46	loophole	quite straight forward
15:46	loophole	every operator ($x... ) is by itself a funktion
15:47	justin_smith	OK
15:48	justin_smith	so is this your own DSL over sql?
15:48	loophole	justin yes. its not really sql its the orientdb dialect
15:48	justin_smith	aha
15:49	justin_smith	loophole: I'd do two layers - one that is a straightforward adaptor, then another layer that does the dsl
15:49	justin_smith	I think syntax magic should be a thing one can opt out of
15:51	loophole	there is no magic at all; you just do (query (select ....)) or (query "select ...")
15:51	loophole	justin_smith: there is no magic at all; you just do (query (select ....)) or (query "select ...")
15:51	justin_smith	OK - so it will just be a string generating function?
15:52	loophole	justin_smith: yes. to easy term building and prevent type errors
15:52	loophole	justin_smith: s/easy/ease/
15:53	justin_smith	s/easy/ease/ is my favorite sed based gansta rapper
15:53	loophole	justin_smith: a very thin layer
15:54	loophole	(select [:name :birthday]
15:54	loophole	($let [:$foo (select [:foo] ($from :baz))
15:55	loophole	($from :persons)
15:55	loophole	($where ($= :$foo "hans"))))
15:55	loophole	turns to "select name,birthday let $foo =( select foo from baz ) from persons where $foo = 'hans'"
15:57	loophole	justin_smith: this way it's super easy to unit-test. however the sql-like abstractions i've seen for clojre are much more complicated. so I don't know if my approach is 'right'
15:57	loophole	maybe its to basic
15:59	CStorm	Guys i have a problem. When i boot emacs, load cider-jack and open my project it always fails when i compile it the first time (the error is Unable to resolve symbol). Its a super simpel project with only 5ish functions. The solution is then to oucomment the functions, recompile, enable functions again and everything works. How come?
16:01	justin_smith	CStorm: do you define any functions out of order?
16:01	justin_smith	CStorm: if you run "lein check" do you get the same error?
16:01	CStorm	lemme check.
16:02	justin_smith	CStorm: clojure doesn't support using functions before their definition (even in the same file) unless you use declare
16:02	loophole	justin_smith: do you think my approach is to simplicistic?
16:03	justin_smith	loophole: I'm really not sure - if the syntax the db uses and what you can do in clojure match that nicely, maybe it will just work? but I don't know that db
16:04	loophole	justin_smith: i just lispify all sql statements. so ($+ 1 2 3) -> (1 + 2 + 3)
16:04	CStorm	hm, ok let me show you the code, justin_smith.
16:04	CStorm	justin_smith: http://pastebin.com/KjeZKByQ
16:04	CStorm	just simplified everything, and still does the same thing.
16:05	CStorm	so its because i use it before its defined?
16:05	loophole	justin_smith: and the dollar in front of each sql operator is to distinguish it from clojure
16:06	justin_smith	CStorm: yes, clojure does not support using things before their definition
16:06	justin_smith	CStorm: as I said before
16:07	loophole	CStorm either declare trakt-pin-auth or put it above -main
16:07	CStorm	thank you both, that was a headache my "newbie-clojure" book havnt touched yet
16:07	CStorm	so had problems understanding it :)
16:08	justin_smith	CStorm: it's actually simple - what works in a file is what would work if you were running the definitions one by one in a repl
16:08	justin_smith	CStorm: if you ran (defn -main ...) first, of course the compiler would complain if you used anything that was not defined yet
16:08	CStorm	make sense
16:08	CStorm	so when should i define and when should i move it up?
16:09	justin_smith	CStorm: like many things in clojure, it's simpler as a behavior than other languages are, but there is the "complexity" of doing it a different way than you are used to
16:09	justin_smith	CStorm: I don't ever use declare, but some people like using declare for style reasons - if they want to show definitions in a specific order
16:09	justin_smith	CStorm: it's a style question really
16:09	CStorm	thanks guys
16:10	loophole	CStorm: i only declare things when two function call each other. that happens very rarely
16:10	CStorm	ok.
16:11	justin_smith	loophole: in that sort of case I usually look for a way to make them one recursive question (though perhaps there would be more elegant two function versions I am missing)
16:11	justin_smith	what I really want is to get a good idea of when to use trampoline
16:14	loophole	justin_smith: I think trampoline is for recursive functions that are not tail recursive and can not be written with loop. afaik tramplone prevents in this case a stack overflow
16:14	loophole	justin_smith: or so I read, played around with it just once
16:14	justin_smith	loophole: indeed it does, I know what it does but I haven't mastered the coding style where using it comes naturally
16:15	justin_smith	perhaps it's just a toy, or perhaps I need an a-ha moment that shows me how it is useful
16:15	justin_smith	I'm betting on the latter, since it's in clojure.core
16:18	loophole	justin_smith: i still need to find a reason to use it. but I'm happy it's there just in case
16:18	amalloy	i think trampoline is just useful pretty rarely
16:18	justin_smith	like maybe for a state machine?
16:18	amalloy	that is a classic case, yeah
16:19	amalloy	also to simulate continuations
16:19	amalloy	or rather, TCO, i guess
16:19	justin_smith	right, of non-self-calls
16:27	rcassidy	yeah, trampoline is one of those things you don't really use much unless you're pretty deep into recreating lisp, from my experience :p
16:37	amalloy	dang, i just got a NPE from `lein deps tree`. that's a new one. i must have a really exciting set of dependencies
16:37	justin_smith	wow
16:38	amalloy	[clj-aws-s3 "0.3.9"] overrides [clj-aws-s3 "0.3.9" :exclusions [joda-time]] Consider using these exclusions: java.lang.NullPointerException
16:38	amalloy	if i could exclude NPE from my programs i would be all for it
16:38	justin_smith	haha
16:40	loophole	amalloy: )
16:44	bja_	any ideas what would cause leiningen to build an uberjar jar that java -jar considers to be an "invalid or corrupt jarfile", but `java -cp myjar my.ns.core` works (which is what `java -jar myjar` is supposed to do)
16:45	bja_	and by works, I mean, loads, passes all integration tests, I can nrepl into it, require/move into all namespaces, etc
16:45	justin_smith	bja_: perhaps you aot-compile your namespace but don't set it as :main-ns ?
16:45	tolstoy	Improper :main setting in lein?
16:45	bja_	:main-ns ?
16:45	bja_	I thought it was :main
16:46	justin_smith	bja_: you are right, I misremembered
16:46	bja_	oh, was just scrambling to the leiningen docs
16:47	amalloy	bja_: lein help sample
16:47	amalloy	is a useful command to remember
16:47	justin_smith	if you set your :main properly, and java -cp myjar main works, then lein is making a mistake
16:47	justin_smith	amalloy: in this case it was me that needed to go look at the docs again
16:47	amalloy	sure, but there's no need to scramble to find the docs anyway
16:49	bja_	amalloy, thanks
17:08	Glenjamin	lein help sample is going to change my life
17:08	Glenjamin	i've been going to github every damn time
17:09	amalloy	i think most md files in lein's github are available via lein help
17:09	bja_	hmm
17:09	amalloy	see `lein help help` for details on that
17:10	bja_	so, `lein uberjar` under jdk7 creates jars that jdk7's java -jar cannot read. jdk8 creates uberjars that jdk8 can read.
17:10	justin_smith	amalloy: I'm not finding one for "faster", maybe using the wrong term
17:10	justin_smith	bja_: that does not reflect my experience at all
17:10	amalloy	well, i did say "most". i don't know that they're all there, i just know a lot are
17:11	bja_	justicefries, oh I mean. in this case. that's not my usual experience.
17:11	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah, I just thought it would have been cool to be able to direct people to a lein command instead of find that wiki page when they talk about clojure starting slow
17:11	amalloy	i like justin_smith's new nick, bja_
17:12	amalloy	maybe i should just kickban everyone whose nick interferes with the tab-completion on people i often talk to. there's an idea
17:12	bja_	`lein uberjar` under my jdk8 creates a jar file that none of my jdk7 jvms can use via java -jar, but my jdk8 can use that uberjar via java -jar
17:13	bja_	oops, sorry justin_smith and justicefries
17:14	bja_	which, would be fine if I was just using some random jdk8 api. but jdk7 creating the uberjar, cannot execute said uberjar using java -jar.
17:14	bja_	in all instances `java -cp jarfile main` works like I expect it to
17:15	bja_	I think my solution for now involves just using java -cp to run things, but I'd like to know why this happens
17:15	bja_	since I feel like I broke something somehow
17:15	justin_smith	bja_: are you compiling java as part of the build?
17:16	bja_	no. unless one of my dependencies is.
17:16	bja_	my codebase here is all clojure
17:16	justin_smith	no, a dep should be compiling for you, just trying to think of something that would cause that incompatibility
17:17	tolstoy	Have your main print out the java version, then "lein run" to see what's going on?
17:18	bja_	I know the java version from `java -version`
17:19	tolstoy	Yeah, it's a sketchy suggestion. Is lein using the same version? Etc, etc.
17:25	bja_	afaict, lein is using the same version. I'm using arch linux's tool to globally set the java version
17:25	hyPiRion	Lein uses the same version unless you explicitly set some environment variables, which very few people do
17:26	tolstoy	Trust but verify! ;)
17:35	csd_	What's the correct pattern for catching the potential parsing error in (let [json (json/read-str json-str)] ...), given I don't want to wrap the let in a try as other actions in the function might fail as well, for different reasons
17:36	amalloy	something wrong with (let [json (try ..)] ...)?
17:37	amalloy	if you need to make decisions based on whether that happened, you can instead write (if-let [json (try ...)] (worked) (broken))
17:37	csd_	but won't it also bind the return value from the Catch if there's an exception?
17:38	bja_	not it you return nil
17:38	csd_	I was hoping to have the Catch return an error that I could pass to a Ring response
17:39	bja_	I normally handle that with a namespaced exception using slingshot
17:39	bja_	and then let a middleware deal with custom ring responses
17:40	bja_	do you need to complete the rest of the function?
17:40	csd_	yeah
17:40	csd_	well not if it fails
17:40	bja_	i.e. are you hoping to return a message, and then process some more stuff before returning the error message + other stuff
17:40	tolstoy	Put the json/parse stuff in a "decode" function and trap the error there? decode returns [:sucess doc] or [:error msg]?
17:41	csd_	bja_: the function deserializes the json and attempts to make a rest call. if the parse fails it will return immediately
17:42	bja_	in that case, I would do something like (throw+ {:type ::json-parse-fail :message "something" :other-keys :that-are-useful})
17:42	csd_	i'll have to look at the slingshot docs, i'm not familiar with it
17:43	bja_	tolstoy's solution is more generic
17:43	bja_	returning a vector of [status result]
17:43	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
17:43	csd_	tolstoy: oh i missed that. i like that idea
17:44	bja_	why did clojurebot CSB me?
17:44	tolstoy	I generally throw to a middleware handler using (ex-info ..) and (ex-data ..), but destructure return values works okay.
17:44	tolstoy	I also do all kinds of things until it all works, then refactor (when I don't have to worry about code review nags, that is).
17:48	amalloy	bja_: he's got a few behaviors that are just for fun. in particular, he interprets some random subset of messages (like 1%?) as if they were directed to him specifically
17:48	amalloy	he didn't understand why you were telling him "returning a vector of [status result]"
17:49	amalloy	clojurebot: returning a vector of [status result]
17:49	clojurebot	I don't understand.
17:59	csd_	what is this error i get if i do (ex-info "" {}) outside of a throw statement
17:59	amalloy	,(ex-info "" {})
17:59	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause ""\n :data {}\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo\n :message ""\n :data {}\n :at [clojure.core$ex_info invokeStatic "core.clj" 4617]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.core$ex_info invokeStatic "core.clj" 4617]\n [clojure.core$ex_info invoke "core.clj" 4617]\n [sandbox$eval25 invokeStatic "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0]\n [sandbox$eval25 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]\n [clojure.lang.Comp...
17:59	csd_	i've never seen an error message like this from cider
17:59	amalloy	doesn't look like an error to me. you created an exception, and there it is
18:00	amalloy	that's just how clojure prints exceptions
18:00	csd_	ah
18:13	pilne	i like this: “In Lisp, you have the power to shoot off your foot, not just shoot your foot! But don't worry — with Lisp, you can easily make a new foot! Or a tentacle.”
18:16	loophole	pilne: https://xkcd.com/224/
18:16	loophole	;)
18:18	pilne	LMAO
18:18	pilne	ahh perl...
18:18	pilne	perhaps the only syntax that is maligned to the extent as lisp
18:18	montanstercat	"bless this mess" OO is still my favorite part of perl
18:19	montanstercat	this data structure may or may not work out as an object, let's incant a ritual on it
18:19	loophole	montanstercat: bless you!
18:21	loophole	pilne: perl is a lisp with a funny syntax
18:21	pilne	i can see that
18:23	pilne	i find comfort in the regularity of s-expressions
18:24	loophole	pilne: i used perl a lot. I tend to think that one often solves problems in perl that you don't have in other languages
18:24	pilne	i was more of a python guy when it cames to perl/python/ruby
18:24	pilne	and now i futz around with "hy" when i use python lol
18:27	loophole	pilne: python has its use. its fairly easy to read and fast enough
18:28	loophole	pilne: i still use perl but not for big projects
18:28	pilne	yep, not knocking it whatsoever, i really don't "hate" any programming language, there are ones i dislike more, and ones i like more, but hate is just too strong for things like that
18:29	loophole	pilne shakespear is a funny language :)
18:29	pilne	true!
18:30	pilne	esolangs are fun, and lisp is probably the easiest way to "write" a simple goofy one too (:
18:33	loophole	pilne: maybe I will write a metal language one time. it will only contain words that are in manowar lyrics :D exceptions are thrown with HAIL AND KILL! and so forth
18:34	pilne	and i'll have to write the scripting language that works with it using GWAR vocabulary (:
18:35	loophole	pilne: :)
18:35	loophole	pilne: i'm off to bed now
18:35	loophole	cu
18:35	highclasshole	Playing devil's advocate here, but why do people like emacs so much for clojure? I use vim and fireplace never ever have issues -- guy today try to work on the project with emacs and literally could not get CIDER to work with nREPL -- I added the handler he added the cider-nrepl to his lein user profile and still just would not work
18:35	loophole	highclasshole: because... vim :)
18:36	justin_smith	highclasshole: I use emacs but I don't use CIDER, fwiw
18:36	loophole	highclasshole: I had to... ;)
18:36	highclasshole	How do you connect to the nrepl?
18:36	pilne	i've never had trouble getting either to work, and i've actually taken quite a fancy to spacemacs lately being that it combines the emacs base, with a very well-thought out modal system and a better package management (IMHO) system.
18:36	justin_smith	highclasshole: emacs has historically been a friendly environment for lispy programming
18:36	montanstercat	highclasshole: the years of elisp radiation makes us predisposed to clojure
18:36	justin_smith	highclasshole: I don't
18:36	highclasshole	oh
18:37	justin_smith	highclasshole: I used to use inferior-lisp now I just use a repl in a terminal
18:37	pilne	i also use ligttable because it's just kinda neat for quick one-off futzing, and atom with a repl in a terminal for things too, just depends on my mood really.
18:37	justin_smith	(require 'some.ns :reload) is simple enough, I don't need editor integration for that
18:38	highclasshole	Yeah that seems like the better approach, cider made us want to put a fist through the monitor
18:39	pilne	my quick and dirty setup is the zip from "clojure for the brave and true" tutorial
18:39	pilne	for emacs
18:39	highclasshole	Yeah thats what he used
18:39	tolstoy	Yeah, I've not had problems with Cider in years,
18:39	pilne	did he replace his .emacs.d folder or try and merge them?
18:39	highclasshole	replaced it
18:40	pilne	also, emacs can have issues launching from the gui (gnome 3 etc) if the path to lein is in your .bashrc
18:40	highclasshole	it works ok if you launch the repl from within emacs but connecting to a remote nrepl (even on localhost) would not work
18:40	highclasshole	and I did add the handler for the nrepl
18:40	highclasshole	nah its not that
18:40	pilne	k
18:40	pilne	just iterating over my "facepalm" moments
18:41	pilne	well... my emacs-cider related ones... all of them would be several encyclopedias...
18:41	justin_smith	highclasshole: nrepl is local only for security reasons by default
18:41	highclasshole	right
18:42	highclasshole	so ssh tunnel on a remote box and running locally on localhost
18:42	justin_smith	sure, yeah
18:42	highclasshole	the stupidest thing is it said "CANNOT CONNECT" yet would establish a TCP connection to the port
18:42	highclasshole	but sending anything to it would not work
18:43	highclasshole	it was probably one of the most annoying things i've dealt with -- it defied all logic and reason
18:43	justin_smith	highclasshole: so you were running cider-connect, and had the right port, and it was failing with CANNOT CONNECT but it was hitting the port?
18:43	highclasshole	yep
18:44	justin_smith	wow
18:44	highclasshole	we tried 0.8.1 and 0.10.1 same behaviour
18:44	highclasshole	of cider-nrepl
18:44	justin_smith	highclasshole: if you get a chance try "lein repl :connect <port>" to verify that works
18:44	justin_smith	(with a running repl on that port, of course)
18:45	highclasshole	that works fine
18:45	highclasshole	it also worked fine in fireplace, atom, telnet, intellij
18:45	justin_smith	haha
18:45	highclasshole	so it was like
18:45	highclasshole	whats the point of emacs?
18:46	highclasshole	have to add an additional dep to support the nrepl (which didn't even work) no other editors require any special handlers or additional dependencies to connect to the nrepl
18:46	highclasshole	it was like, this is seriously the "ppreferred" editor?
18:46	justin_smith	highclasshole: don't judge emacs by cider - emacs is a bit weird and crufty but I mean what do you expect from the oldest living editor?, cider on the other hand is often a mess
18:46	cap10morgan	highclasshole: please file an issue on cider's GitHub page. If we find a fix, I can most likely get it into an 0.10.x point release.
18:47	highclasshole	not on my work machine at the moment but I'll try to file an issue tomorrow
18:47	cap10morgan	highclasshole: thanks!
18:47	pilne	emacs (in this day and age) has a lot of lisp nostalgia, a lot of the syntax tools that other editors use for a lisp were originally made with emacs, and a lot of the common lisp/scheme tools are kept most up to date with it, clojure is a different beast of a lisp though due to its jvm parentage
18:48	tolstoy	Cider's sometimes a mess if you live on unstable.
18:48	highclasshole	Well I was a sysadmin for the better part of a decade, so I've been a vim user as long as I can remember
18:48	justin_smith	tolstoy: my coworkers who use cider are living with missing features and bugs for fear of everything breaking if they ever try to upgrade.
18:49	highclasshole	sysadmin / C developer
18:49	cap10morgan	I definitely recommend melpa-stable for cider, but even then some of the other clojure-emacs tools are incompatible w/ 0.10.x, which is :(
18:50	justin_smith	cap10morgan: my fear is that will always be the story with cider - you chose between the known brokenness of the past, or the unknown brokenness of the future, along with the breakages caused by upgrading. There's seemingly never a good stable point.
18:50	pilne	to be fair, clojure/lein/jvm are a much faster moving target than common lisp and scheme :p
18:50	cap10morgan	justin_smith: I agree, it hasn't been great. That's why I've been volunteering some release engineering time to try to improve it.
18:51	justin_smith	cap10morgan: and thank you for that, I just got frustrated it wasn't there already and walked away, which is definitely much less helpful :P
18:51	cap10morgan	justin_smith: my goal is to get 0.10.x to a stable, integrated, consistent point and then backport bugfixes and no-brainer improvements from master to it for awhile.
18:51	highclasshole	cap10morgan: thanks for that, didn't mean to be negative I really appreciate the work you are doijng
18:52	cap10morgan	justin_smith: Yeah, I know how that goes. My typical response too. Only so many things you can contribute to in a day!
18:52	cap10morgan	highclasshole: no worries; good motivation to keep working at making it better!
18:52	pilne	so with typed clojure, i can annotate where i want, and leave dynamic where i want... like... freedom?
18:52	pilne	clojure really just keeps blowing my mind...
19:16	tos9	Hi. Only about <10 hours into clojure, so still very much learning the ropes. Why does (str :a) not raise a type error of some sort
19:16	tos9	I come from Python, and I'm fairly sure if we had keywords, our str() would have the same behavior, but I'm trying to decide if my intuition for whose "fault" it is that this library that I handed a symbol to in the wrong place didn't raise an error carries over
19:17	tos9	er s/symbol/keyword in that second message
19:18	justin_smith	tos9: str works on literally anything
19:18	justin_smith	tos9: it gives you the string of its value
19:19	tos9	OK, so same as Python then.
19:19	justin_smith	tos9: or most OO languages really - if it's a value you can print it
19:19	tos9	justin_smith: So, it's basically up to the library to use "better" mechanisms for ensuring it gets the right type there and not splatting random things into strings?
19:19	justin_smith	and to print it you need a string
19:19	TEttinger	str is a string-ify-ing function
19:20	TEttinger	,(str {:a 1 :b "hey guys"})
19:20	clojurebot	"{:a 1, :b \"hey guys\"}"
19:20	justin_smith	tos9: well, if you expect to turn something into a string, anything will do - if you need something more specific that's up to you, sure
19:20	TEttinger	pr-str is sometimes what you may want in place of str
19:21	TEttinger	,(pr-str {:a 1 :b "hey guys"})
19:21	clojurebot	"{:a 1, :b \"hey guys\"}"
19:21	TEttinger	same there
19:21	TEttinger	uhhh
19:21	tos9	TEttinger: well basically you need a separate protocol
19:21	tos9	(Does clojure have one?)
19:21	TEttinger	,(str '(1 2 3))
19:21	clojurebot	"(1 2 3)"
19:21	TEttinger	,(pr-str '(1 2 3))
19:21	clojurebot	"(1 2 3)"
19:21	tos9	For objects that claim "my str representation is a thing that is actually sane, and not just debugging noise"
19:21	TEttinger	dammit come up with an example Ettinger!
19:21	justin_smith	tos9: pr-str / print-method
19:22	tos9	justin_smith: well pr-str looks like it just worked on a list
19:22	justin_smith	tos9: for any given object you should be able to use str to get the default toString, and pr-str to get the readable version, if possible
19:22	TEttinger	,(str #"[abc]$")
19:22	clojurebot	"[abc]$"
19:22	TEttinger	a ha
19:22	TEttinger	,(pr-str #"[abc]$")
19:22	clojurebot	"#\"[abc]$\""
19:22	TEttinger	the string representation of a regex is not directly readable as a regex
19:23	TEttinger	but its pr-str is
19:23	justin_smith	,(type (read-string (pr-str #"[abc]$"))) ; TEttinger
19:23	clojurebot	java.util.regex.Pattern
19:23	justin_smith	TEttinger: d'oh, that's what you said
19:23	TEttinger	,(re-find (read-string (pr-str #"[abc]$")) "balaclava")
19:23	clojurebot	"a"
19:24	TEttinger	,(re-find (read-string (str #"[abc]$")) "balaclava") ; shouldn't work
19:24	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.util.regex.Pattern"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassCastException\n :message "clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.util.regex.Pattern"\n :at [clojure.core$re_matcher invokeStatic "core.clj" 4667]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.core$re_matcher invokeStatic "core.clj" 4667]\n [clojure.core$re_find invokeStatic "core...
19:32	justin_smith	any idea what's going on with clj-time coercion here? https://gist.github.com/noisesmith/ede8248dadd6bc81d77d
19:33	justin_smith	I feel like I must be missing something, I'm getting the same instant for year 0, and a year from year 0
19:33	justin_smith	but only in the converted version, the clj-time value looks fine
19:34	TEttinger	a year from year 0, justin_smith?
19:35	justin_smith	right
19:35	TEttinger	do you mean a day from year 0?
19:35	justin_smith	I added a year
19:35	TEttinger	or a year after year 0?
19:35	TEttinger	oh ok
19:36	justin_smith	bbl
19:41	pilne	oh holy batballs
19:41	pilne	the arcadia project, unifying clojureCLR and unity
19:41	pilne	thank the makers
19:51	pilne	gf is now getting big into unity, so i feel i'll be helping with the js/c# side of things, and having clojure as an alternative in both cases makes me a happy lisper
19:51	pilne	although i'm kinda hoping to get her over to jme3 at some point
19:54	Kamuela	pilne: interesting but what's jme3 and how big is Arcadia
20:03	LucidTortoise	Hi, is there anyone here who has read through Clojure for the Brave and True?
20:04	LucidTortoise	I have come across what I think is errata, and I don't know how to solve it.
20:04	domgetter	LucidTortoise: the printed version or the online version?
20:04	LucidTortoise	Online. I have also read the printed version on Safari Books. Nothing is changed
20:05	domgetter	LucidTortoise: link to error?
20:05	LucidTortoise	http://pastebin.com/fyDqvtm7
20:05	LucidTortoise	http://www.braveclojure.com/core-functions-in-depth/
20:05	LucidTortoise	The Vampire Database section
20:05	TEttinger	Kamuela: JMonkey Engine version 3, which IIRC is not terrifically well-maintained
20:06	TEttinger	arcadia looks good
20:06	domgetter	LucidTortoise: pg 85 in the printed?
20:06	LucidTortoise	Maybe? Nothing I have read has page numbers.
20:06	domgetter	LucidTortoise: ah okay. What's the error?
20:07	LucidTortoise	(time (vampire-related-detials 0))
20:07	LucidTortoise	CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: vampire-related-detials in this context, compiling:(C:\Users\spint\AppData\Local\Temp\form-init64976743713428325.clj:1:7
20:08	LucidTortoise	2. Unhandled clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException
20:08	LucidTortoise	Error compiling:
20:08	LucidTortoise	C:\Users\spint\AppData\Local\Temp\form-init64976743713428325.clj:1:7
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6543 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6485 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 3737 clojure.lang.Compiler$InvokeExpr/parse
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6725 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyzeSeq
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6524 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 38 clojure.lang.Compiler/access$300
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6129 clojure.lang.Compiler$LetExpr$Parser/parse
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6723 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyzeSeq
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6524 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6485 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 5861 clojure.lang.Compiler$BodyExpr$Parser/parse
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 5296 clojure.lang.Compiler$FnMethod/parse
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 3925 clojure.lang.Compiler$FnExpr/parse
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6721 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyzeSeq
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6524 clojure.lang.Compiler/analyze
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6779 clojure.lang.Compiler/eval
20:08	LucidTortoise	Compiler.java: 6745 clojure.lang.Compiler/eval
20:08	LucidTortoise	core.clj: 3081 clojure.core/eval
20:08	LucidTortoise	main.clj: 240 clojure.main/repl/read-eval-print/fn
20:08	LucidTortoise	main.clj: 240 clojure.main/repl/read-eval-print
20:08	LucidTortoise	main.clj: 258 clojure.main/repl/fn
20:08	LucidTortoise	main.clj: 258 clojure.main/repl
20:09	LucidTortoise	RestFn.java: 1523 clojure.lang.RestFn/invoke
20:09	LucidTortoise	interruptible_eval.clj: 58 clojure.tools.nrepl.middleware.interruptible-eval/evaluate/fn
20:09	LucidTortoise	AFn.java: 152 clojure.lang.AFn/applyToHelper
20:09	LucidTortoise	AFn.java: 144 clojure.lang.AFn/applyTo
20:09	LucidTortoise	core.clj: 630 clojure.core/apply
20:09	LucidTortoise	core.clj: 1868 clojure.core/with-bindings*
20:09	LucidTortoise	RestFn.java: 425 clojure.lang.RestFn/invoke
20:09	LucidTortoise	interruptible_eval.clj: 56 clojure.tools.nrepl.middleware.interruptible-eval/evaluate
20:09	LucidTortoise	interruptible_eval.clj: 191 clojure.tools.nrepl.middleware.interruptible-eval/interruptible-eval/fn/fn
20:09	domgetter	LucidTortoise: for future reference, don't paste > 2 or 3 lines into this chatroom
20:09	LucidTortoise	interruptible_eval.clj: 159 clojure.tools.nrepl.middleware.interruptible-eval/run-next/fn
20:09	LucidTortoise	AFn.java: 22 clojure.lang.AFn/run
20:09	LucidTortoise	ThreadPoolExecutor.java: 1142 java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor/runWorker
20:09	LucidTortoise	ThreadPoolExecutor.java: 617 java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker/run
20:09	LucidTortoise	Thread.java: 745 java.lang.Thread/run
20:09	LucidTortoise	1. Caused by java.lang.RuntimeException
20:09	LucidTortoise	Unable to resolve symbol: vampire-related-detials in this context
20:09	LucidTortoise	Oops
20:09	LucidTortoise	Sorry Channel
20:09	LucidTortoise	This is why we use Pastebin
20:09	LucidTortoise	domgetter: I will definetly avoid that.
20:10	domgetter	You spelled details wrong
20:10	domgetter	"Unable to resolve symbol: vampire-related-detials in this context"
20:10	LucidTortoise	No way. I mean, okay. Wow.
20:10	LucidTortoise	Thanks.
20:11	domgetter	The printed version and the online version spell it "details" correctly both times
20:11	domgetter	no problem :)
20:14	LucidTortoise	I am going to kill and reload the repl buffer. I realized that typing things yourself gets overrated, so I copy and pasted the boook text and I still got the error
20:16	LucidTortoise	Yups. Be wary of blaming errata, even when the book doesn't have a section for them online!
20:23	pilne	Kamuela:: jme is jmonkeyengine (version 3 now) http://jmonkeyengine.org/ a java-based game engine/library. and arcadia is a clojurescript to unity bridging project. http://arcadia-unity.tumblr.com/post/100257212548/arcadia-01a-launched
20:31	adicto	gfredericks: will write a seperate keys function.
21:30	neoncontrails	pilne: fascinating. Have you used it? (Arcadia?) I've futzed around with some javascript interfaces to WebGL, and they all rely deeply on mutation and inheritance
21:31	pilne	i have not yet, i just started looking at it today since the gf crash-coursed unity for like 8 hours and is really smitten with it, but... i can't stand c# and f# still is a second class citizen in that world.
21:33	neoncontrails	It's really remarkable. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how a functional semantics could even really work in that environment, esp. with immutability
21:33	pilne	for what she wants to use it for (for now) the javascript level scripting is fine, and i can always help with the marvel that is clojurescript (: (i can also tolerate some plain javascript, just smitten with lisps)
21:34	pilne	i found a slide of tutorials for handling state in a couple different ways, one is the tutorial "caves of clojure" which seems to be left somewhat unfinished, and the other was from the perspective of a voxel-game in scala.
21:35	pilne	and from what i've gathered, immutable is default, but not forced at all times.
21:36	neoncontrails	I could see there being some definite advantages though for the expression of movement. I found movement very difficult to express in JS
21:37	neoncontrails	Which makes sense. Movement is a function, so it will be a little more natural to express in a functional style
21:38	neoncontrails	But if I change the color of a cube's face to red, I don't really want to get a brand new cube
21:41	justin_smith	neoncontrails: if you change the color of the cube's face to red, you don't really want it to be a series of sequential storage locations in a turing machine
21:41	justin_smith	neoncontrails: these are all abstractions
21:45	neoncontrails	justin_smith: heh. Touche. That's true
21:45	clojurebot	Pardon?
21:58	princeso	is it normal that criterium.core/bench lasts hours working? (4 hours and counting)
21:59	justin_smith	how big a function did you give to it? is it a function call that would normally return?
21:59	justin_smith	princeso: no, I've never had bench take that long
21:59	stapler	,(rand-nth [1 2 3 4 5])
21:59	clojurebot	3
21:59	princeso	its just an eval some data
22:00	justin_smith	you mean literally calling eval?
22:01	princeso	yes, one eval
22:02	justin_smith	eval is very slow, but still that shouldn't take hours to benchmark
22:02	princeso	justin_smith: classes loaded before 1205701 iterations
22:03	TEttinger	sounds like the data is large
22:03	TEttinger	which isn't eval's fault
22:04	princeso	itst just a (defn f [x] (+ 1 x))
22:04	princeso	im going to stop it.
22:11	justin_smith	princeso: what clojure version did you do that with?
22:14	justin_smith	princeso: I'm running (crit/bench (eval '(defn f [x] (+ 1 x)))), maybe it will return eventually
22:14	justin_smith	clojure 1.8.0
22:14	princeso	justin_smith . 1.7.0 . well the thin being benchmarked is some assoc an prewalk-replace to get that func (defn f [x] (+ 1 x)). Nothing exorbitant
22:14	justin_smith	princeso: liar!
22:15	princeso	haha
22:16	princeso	justin_smith: i suppose it does a real benchmark
22:16	princeso	justin_smith: sorry mate
22:16	justin_smith	heh, I guess I'll find out how long an eval defn takes in the raw, but it probably won't have much to do with your case...
22:17	princeso	please show results
22:18	justin_smith	this is now officially the longest crit/bench I have ever run, and it's still chugging along
22:37	backnforth	Newbie question: When I run "lein run" I get a clojure could not transfer artifact error. Here's my project.clj: http://pastebin.com/rCRUweb1
22:41	backnforth	Why do I get this error? There's are also error messages saying im getting a "java.lang.runtimeexception: Unexpected error: java.security.InvalidAlgorithmParameterException: the trustAnchors parameter must be non-empty
22:57	princeso	justin_smith: how did that end?
23:01	highclasshole	backnforth: lein run issue sounds like lein is having trouble downloading remote artifacts
23:02	highclasshole	you behind a proxy or something
23:02	justin_smith	princeso: still going
23:02	justin_smith	backnforth: are you using ubuntu?
23:03	backnforth	I am running ubuntu, and no I'm not using a proxy.
23:03	justin_smith	backnforth: known ubuntu issue http://askubuntu.com/questions/627426/minecraft-with-openjdk-7-i-get-the-trustanchors-parameter-must-be-non-empty
23:05	backnforth	Sweet
23:24	justin_smith	princeso: no more computer for tonight, but I'll leave that benchmark running, and I typed in a (java.util.Date.) after, so I should see what time it finally finished
23:51	princeso	justin_smith: good. good night