#clojure – 2016-01-13

2016-01-13

00:16	neoncontrails	I think the part I don't get is how this database connection object relates to the DOM. Is the db connected to the application? To the user? At what point in the user signup process would you invoke this function?
00:17	neoncontrails	I'm assuming you wouldn't call it directly from the DOM, but via some HTTP post transaction that contains the relevant data
00:38	neoncontrails	Phew, figured it out. Heroku's explanation is a lot easier to follow https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/clojure-web-application
01:05	Raynes	Sup brodudes
01:06	Raynes	How's Clojureland
02:29	TEttinger	Raynes!
02:29	TEttinger	how's refheap?
02:30	Raynes	TEttinger!
02:30	TEttinger	paste still works it seems
02:30	Raynes	TEttinger as expected, my announcement induced sheer terror despite that honestly it's a shitty pastebin.
02:31	TEttinger	well, to be perfectly fair, yes.
02:31	TEttinger	I tried to paste a large text in there
02:31	Raynes	I removed the paste in question and worked with Namecheap support and citibank has yet to file lawsuits, so I think I'm okay.
02:31	TEttinger	it froze my browser
02:31	Raynes	But I think it's time to let it go. I don't have a legal time.
02:31	Raynes	Because ancient version of codemirror.
02:31	Raynes	Let's just use gist, guys.
02:31	Raynes	Seriously, I'm not offended.
02:32	ianhedoesit	wait, what about refheap?
02:32	Raynes	I'm gonna make the site read only or static.
02:32	TEttinger	I believe it was https://gist.githubusercontent.com/tommyettinger/9079f8f882db658f301f/raw/eb452cd90915c558cd9ece03ee30af829dda059e/layer-dungeon.txt
02:32	Raynes	I've got spamming issues and malicious pastes.
02:32	TEttinger	ok. can you maybe update lazybot? :)
02:32	TEttinger	so it doesn't paste to refheap?
02:32	ianhedoesit	Raynes: ah
02:32	Raynes	If you'd like to take this current sprint I'm in.
02:33	TEttinger	so it would need to use a Gist API of some sort?
02:33	Raynes	I wrote one lol
02:33	Raynes	tentacles
02:33	TEttinger	great!
02:33	Raynes	I think there's even still code there for it.
02:34	TEttinger	to the lapserver on the floor underneath a piece of furniture!
02:34	Raynes	Anyways, the refheap plan is currently to either make it read only and deal with webservers or make it static.
02:34	Raynes	I'm at a standing desk bro
02:34	Raynes	Get with it
02:35	TEttinger	Raynes: do you even bend, bro? http://i.imgur.com/47RoA.jpg
02:35	ianhedoesit	but who took the picture
02:36	Raynes	TEttinger: Nah but I peace sign like a god https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12400609_10207883430106765_1579825192028990593_n.jpg?oh=fe824f9d65624447590ee61f21527945&oe=5709185D
02:36	TEttinger3	ianhedoesit: also me, with my chin
02:37	ianhedoesit	hm, I was more hoping your answer would be "timer"
02:37	TEttinger3	it was still pretty difficult
05:08	noncom	was just coding java and writing a lambda. i did not care for the paramerter, so i used _, but the IDE said that it is not allowed and commented that in versions of Java after Java 8, the _ for lambda names will not be supported
05:08	noncom	why so?
05:10	noncom	ah, https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8061549
05:11	noncom	still no clue as to why
05:11	noncom	they say they reserv the identifier...
05:12	noncom	what for could they reserve it?
05:12	noncom	that's weird
05:29	amalloy	noncom: look at how scala uses _
05:30	amalloy	(_ + 1) is scala's #(+ % 1)
06:21	lokien	do we use multidimensional arrays (vectors) in clojure?
06:25	MJB47	lokien: yes for both vectors and arrays
06:26	lokien	MJB47: can you show me an example?
06:26	MJB47	,[[1 2] [3 4]]
06:26	clojurebot	[[1 2] [3 4]]
06:27	MJB47	,(map first [[1 2] [3 4]])
06:27	clojurebot	(1 3)
06:27	lokien	oh, well, it's that easy. thanks
07:19	visof	,(Integer/parseInt "ff726867" 16)
07:19	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "For input string: \"ff726867\""\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.NumberFormatException\n :message "For input string: \"ff726867\""\n :at [java.lang.NumberFormatException forInputString "NumberFormatException.java" 65]}]\n :trace\n [[java.lang.NumberFormatException forInputString "NumberFormatException.java" 65]\n [java.lang.Integer parseInt "Integer.java" 495]\n [sandbox$eval25 ...
07:19	visof	hi guys
07:19	visof	how can i fix this?
07:27	visof	,(Long/parseLong "ff726867" 16)
07:27	clojurebot	4285687911
07:27	visof	good!
09:03	gerold	Hi. I’m wondering if clojure has any means to import a set of objects into the namespace at runtime
09:04	gerold	The use case is that I want to generate a bunch of closures, based on a function that I supply at runtime
09:05	gerold	these closures should be available without explicitly passing the to-be-closed upon function object each time
09:05	gerold	scala has a nifty feature called ‘implicit arguments’ for that use case
09:07	gerold	to illustrate:
09:07	gerold	(defn generate-set-of-functions [foo]
09:07	gerold	{ :function1 (fn [x] (do-something-with foo x)), :function2 (fn [x] (do-something-with foo x)) })
09:07	gerold	how would i import function1 and function2 into my namespace, after calling generate-set-of-functions
09:23	gerold	..an ugly solution to my problem is to just call def within the function generate-set-of-functions.
09:26	jonathanj	not quite the same thing, but perhaps you want a protocol?
09:37	gerold	jonathanj:
09:38	gerold	that certaily looks useful, but its not quite what i wanted
09:39	gerold	a solution for my case would be equivalent to creating a type - or a class - to contain the functions i need. instead of the closure object foo, I would then have to pass an instance of this class
09:40	jonathanj	yes, i think that generally you should prefer explicitness to implicitness
09:40	jonathanj	you could probably use ^:dynamic and rebind things, but that will rebind them globally
09:42	gerold	jonathanj: is there no way to ‘import’ a bunch of symbols into the current namespace? I’m inspired here by python’s ability to simply “add” any dictionary (a hash map of strings to values), into the local namespace
09:43	gerold	In python, one could do locals().add({“function1”: …, “function2”: ...})
09:43	jonathanj	and most people would tell you that's basically an awful idea
09:43	opqdonut	gerold: you can use intern to add a single var to a ns: https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/intern
09:44	opqdonut	but I'd go for an object with methods or equivalent too
09:44	gerold	opqdonut: ah. how is that different from calling def/defn, btw?
09:45	gerold	it feels really strange to me that I can even use nested def expressions
09:45	opqdonut	well it's dynamic
09:45	opqdonut	you can use code to generate the symbol or something
10:08	jonathanj	how do the clojure.java.jdbc `db-spec` maps work?
10:10	jonathanj	if you use (with-db-connection) you get a map that looks like `db-spec` but contains `:connection`, it would appear that when trying to reuse that map for other database actions the `:connection` value is preferred over creating a new connection, right?
10:12	jonathanj	i have a scheduled event (that may happen a week later) and by that point in time, the connection has been closed and the connection instance is invalid, is there a way to turn a "connection" back into a "db-spec"?
10:12	jonathanj	or is the way to do that just to dissoc `:connection`?
10:40	lunk	hello, im struggling to create an array if length n,with a tyle defined in java code as static
10:41	lunk	(into-array Object (repeatedly 5 pkg.class/staticobj))
10:41	lunk	any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
10:42	lunk	api i dont own needs an arbitrary length array as input
10:43	jonathanj	what's the actual problem?
10:45	jonathanj	it's not quite clear what pkg.class/staticobj is, but i don't think you can pass that macro as f to repeatedly
10:45	lunk	jonathanj: that question for me?
10:46	lunk	ah
10:46	jonathanj	i think you might need to do: #(pkg.class/staticobj)
10:47	lunk	its a java api i dobt own,needs two arrays as input, a Strig array of hosts, and a final static objrct array to enable each host
10:47	lunk	sry, on my phone, silly corp firewalls
10:48	lunk	that was it
10:48	lunk	ty so much
10:50	lunk	(inc jonathanj)
11:26	_pr0t0type_	Hey guys, is it a common pattern, or something feasible to integrate clojurescript into a broader, es6/React project? Say if I want to implement a specific widget withing React in clojurescript, is this easy? I guess what I"m asking is it easy to compose clojurescript?
11:26	_pr0t0type_	I recently started using clojure, and I really want to start using clojurescript at work if possible, but I can't start from scratch unfortunately, so I was thinking how easy it would be to integrate clojurescript
11:36	matthavener	_pr0t0type_: imho, its certainly possible, but not very easy
11:36	matthavener	_pr0t0type_: i migrated a project to cljs once and did it a page-at-a-time (though i never finished :))
11:40	neoncontrails	matthavener: which parts of the migration did you find most challenging?
11:47	matthavener	writing my frontend to deal with the same backend weirdness the legacy frontend dealt with
11:47	matthavener	and trying to share CSS
11:47	matthavener	but I was going YUI3 -> Om
11:47	matthavener	so.. it was essentially a per-page rewrite. I didn't try to share code
12:02	neoncontrails	matthavener: I've built some simple SPAs in clojurescript, that's about it. It seems like clojurescript is more restrictive than clj, like it might be easier to go cljs -> clj than vice versa. True or no?
12:31	justin_smith	_pr0t0type_: between the js->clj and clj->js functions, and declaring exports / externs, you should be able to bootstrap more and more of a frontend codebase to cljs from js
12:33	j-pb	Am I the only one feeling that crossclj.info is really not helping? It's pretty useless info but because it contains a bazillion crosslinking references to clojure functions it's always clogging up google results...
12:34	domgetter	j-pb: you can filter results in google with the minus operator
12:34	domgetter	some-func -crossclj
12:35	j-pb	domgetter: yeah but It's really annoying one has to include that into every query, just because the side is a search engines crawlers wet dream
13:10	matthavener	neoncontrails: hrm, I dont know
13:15	sdegutis	It seems like extend-protocol and defmethod aren't really suitable for a reloadable workflow, right?
13:19	TimMc	right
13:20	sdegutis	Hmm.
13:20	sdegutis	But on the other hand, I like the idea of extending compojure.response/Renderable rather than replacing Compojure.
13:21	sdegutis	I'm so conflicted.
13:22	TimMc	defoncerecord ;-)
13:24	sdegutis	haha!
13:24	sdegutis	(inc TimMc)
13:24	sdegutis	um, where's the bot?
13:26	allenj12	,(inc 1)
13:26	clojurebot	2
13:26	allenj12	^
13:27	sdegutis	,(def TimMC 100)
13:27	clojurebot	#'sandbox/TimMC
13:27	sdegutis	,(inc TimMC)
13:27	clojurebot	101
13:27	sdegutis	Yay.
13:30	sdegutis	Also, TIL you can return a function from a Compojure route, and it'll call the function for you and use that as the return value.
13:31	sdegutis	So returning (fn[req](fn[req)(fn[req]"foo")) is the same as returning "foo"
13:32	lxsameer	hey folks, how clojurescript take advantage of core.async? does it use web workers?
13:33	Glenjamin	sdegutis: there's quite a lot of implementations of the Renderable protocol shipped with compojure, I was pleasantly surprised when i found them
13:33	sdegutis	inorite
13:34	sdegutis	I always wondered where the magic was that let you return just a string instead of a map.
13:35	Glenjamin	https://github.com/weavejester/compojure/blob/master/src/compojure/response.clj#L21 IDeref, MultiFn & URL are some fun ones there
13:36	hiredman	no it doesn't use webworkers
13:37	neoncontrails	Interesting data structures problem: say you have a giant map of English words to their respective pronunciation(s). Strings on keys, lists of lists of keywords on vals.
13:37	hiredman	the way you implement csp in a single threaded environment is channel operations hand off control between different logical threads
13:38	neoncontrails	Your time complexity largely depends on how quickly you can take the set union of words whose values have a common element (i.e., words that are phonetically similar)
13:38	hiredman	I am pretty sure that is how core.async does it in clojurescript, but I haven't actually looked at it
13:39	hiredman	neoncontrails: inverted index
13:39	neoncontrails	You have mappings for about 100k English words, and the phoneme lists are comprised of ~42 possible phonemes
13:40	neoncontrails	hiredman: that rings a bell, but I'm not sure I learned that one. goes to wikipedia
13:40	Glenjamin	i was about to say the same, datastructure should model the problem, rather than the data
13:41	amalloy	well, you start with a data structure that models the data, and then process it into one that models the problem
13:42	cap10morgan	lxsameer: If I understand it correctly, the async operations that would have run in another thread on the JVM are instead run in a subsequent trip through the JS engine's event loop. So your code looks linear, but it macro-expands into events and callbacks in JS.
13:42	lxsameer	cap10morgan: thanks
13:43	hiredman	infact, even on the jvm the execution of go blocks can be interleaved on a thread
13:43	neoncontrails	hiredman: nice, this was the solution I was imagining before I knew what it was called. Thanks
13:45	domgetter	neoncontrails: are you using the Carnagie Mellon Pronouncing Dictionary? http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict
13:47	neoncontrails	hiredman: should I be concerned about memory overflows if I go this route? 42 phonemes on keys, 42 potentially large hashsets on vals.
13:47	neoncontrails	domgetter: that's the one
13:47	hiredman	use lucene
13:48	hiredman	I mean, I don't know, it depends how much memory you have and what all you are doing
13:49	hiredman	I think lucene may have the most highly tuned inverted index implementation
13:53	neoncontrails	This is just a pet project of mine, no need to use Lucene. (I hear it's a steep learning curve)
14:03	xemdetia	neoncontrails, its not really that bad at all. It's just a big component so it has big component learning curve instead of a small component learning curve
14:03	xemdetia	aka you just can't fumble your way through it without reading at least SOME of the docs
14:04	domgetter	neoncontrails: https://github.com/weavejester/clucy
14:07	neoncontrails	Interesting. Is Lucene just a database that happens to be optimized for this type of problem?
14:09	elvis4526	Is there a thing like admix and mix but in reverse ?
14:09	neoncontrails	I know it's conventionally called a search engine, but this looks like plain ol' database syntax
14:09	xemdetia	It's more a specialized datastore
14:09	elvis4526	(a mix of outputs instead of inputs)
14:10	xemdetia	they do provide a nice grammar/syntax to call into it, but it just provides an optimized way to store/retrieve a certain category of data (for search)
14:10	justin_smith	elvis4526: you mean fan out rather than fan in?
14:11	justin_smith	that would be pub and sub
14:11	Kamuela	i’ve been playing with clojure here and there for a bit, for those using it now full-time, what applications does it seem to fit well with?
14:26	hiredman	with some care, I think the index of phonemes to words could be an array of about 42 longs, which should not overly tax anything
14:26	sdegutis	Hi.
14:27	lukaszk	Hi all! I'm looking for an equivalent of Ruby's timecop for clojure - I have some time-sensitive tests and I want to validate that timestamps got correctly updated in a map. I could stub the function which returns timestamps, but I'm wondering if there's a better way
14:33	justin_smith	lukaszk: there might be something in clj-time, if not clj-time has the tools you would use to build it
14:33	lukaszk	justin_smith: thanks! I'll have a look
14:35	justin_smith	lukaszk: I think it would likely involve using the clj-time functions, plus using with-redefs to wrap your code and override the function that actually provides "current time"
14:36	lukaszk	justin_smith: I'm doing something similar, I'm using with-redefs-fn to mock internal function which returns the timestamp. Looks like I'm on the right track. Thanks again
14:52	neoncontrails	Is there a way to cast a vector of lists as a map without using flatten? i.e., (into #{} (flatten [(:T :AH0 :M :EY1 :T :OW2) (:T :AH0 :M :AA1 :T :OW2)]))
14:52	neoncontrails	,(into #{} (flatten [(:T :AH0 :M :EY1 :T :OW2) (:T :AH0 :M :AA1 :T :OW2)]))
14:52	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Wrong number of args passed to keyword: :T"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.IllegalArgumentException\n :message "Wrong number of args passed to keyword: :T"\n :at [clojure.lang.Keyword throwArity "Keyword.java" 97]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.lang.Keyword throwArity "Keyword.java" 97]\n [clojure.lang.Keyword invoke "Keyword.java" 158]\n [sandbox$eval25 invokeStatic "NO_SOURCE_FILE" ...
14:53	justin_smith	wait, what are you trying to do? that's a set not a map
14:54	justin_smith	neoncontrails: also, we don't have casts, that's a javac thing
14:54	neoncontrails	justin_smith: set, my bad
14:54	neoncontrails	(into #{} (flatten ['(:T :AH0 :M :EY1 :T :OW2) '(:T :AH0 :M :AA1 :T :OW2)]))
14:56	justin_smith	,(reduce into #{} ['(:T :AH0 :M :EY1 :T :OW2) '(:T :AH0 :M :AA1 :T :OW2)])
14:56	clojurebot	#{:M :AA1 :OW2 :T :AH0 ...}
14:58	neoncontrails	justin_smith: brilliant. I suspected reduce would be my friend here
15:01	neoncontrails	justin_smith: just out of curiosity are type conversions in Clojure handled differently than they are in Java?
15:02	justin_smith	neoncontrails: a cast is not the same as a type conversion
15:02	justin_smith	a cast is "compile code as if you were dealing with this type", clojure kind of does this with type hints, but kind of not. Converting types is not casting.
15:02	neoncontrails	true, right. Inheritance plays a roll
15:02	neoncontrails	*role
15:08	justin_smith	neoncontrails: clojure's actually kind of sloppy about it - where javac wants to know the type of your argument (and you might want to cast to an interface or supertype), clojure just accepts that it will have to look the class up at runtime (but will happily check a specific class first if you provide a hint)
15:13	neoncontrails	justin_smith: my Java's a little rusty, but that sounds similar to the way JVM treats generics. Is that what Clojure symbols are?
15:14	justin_smith	neoncontrails: the jvm doesn't treat generics. Generics exist only in javac, there is no presence of generics in the bytecode or vm.
15:15	justin_smith	on the other hand, a clojure type hint actually leads to byte code that checks a certain class before doing reflection on the class of an unknown argument
15:17	neoncontrails	Huh. I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Even generics that implement a Java library class?
15:17	justin_smith	generics don't implement anything
15:18	justin_smith	you just have a value of type Object, or a collection of Object
15:19	justin_smith	and then javac makes you be more strict about how it is treated in your source code, but none of the info about that is present in the resulting class file byte code. They call this "type erasure".
15:19	TimMc	well
15:19	TimMc	ArrayList<String> is still really an ArrayList, not an instance of Object
15:20	TimMc	but it doesn't know about the String part
15:20	justin_smith	TimMc: oh, right, that's the thing I called "a collection of Object"
15:20	TimMc	ah, yeah
15:20	justin_smith	sorry if I was sloppy there
15:20	TimMc	It's an ArrayList of Object, yes
15:23	neoncontrails	Interesting. Right, can't implement but they do... extend, correct? A generic T that extends Comparable<T> is more specific than just a value of type object, no?
15:23	justin_smith	neoncontrails: there is no spoon
15:23	neoncontrails	justin_smith: aaah
15:23	justin_smith	neoncontrails: a "generic T" is a thing that javac has some concept of, but has no existence in the bytecode
15:24	justin_smith	as far as clojure is concerned you don't interact with generics at all
15:24	justin_smith	just the objects, without that whole "generic" aspect
15:25	sdegutis	Generics have to do with static typing at compile-time. Clojure is dynamic.
15:25	sdegutis	It's as if every type is "Any". Clojure arrays aren't Array<String>, they're Array<Any>
15:26	justin_smith	sdegutis: umm...
15:26	justin_smith	sdegutis: arrays actually have types
15:26	justin_smith	sdegutis: it's only generics that don't exist, some things really are typed
15:27	neoncontrails	fascinating. Now I want to take compilers :-\
15:27	noncom\|2	sdegutis: justin_smith: it's that you can handle them as if they're of <Any>, but in the bytecode they're specific
15:27	justin_smith	sdegutis: ArrayList - yeah, that's Object, no types, array - array can be typed (at least for primitives but I think for Classes also)
15:28	sdegutis	justin_smith: not in Clojure they don't
15:28	noncom\|2	iirc there's some clojure function to make typed arrays
15:28	sdegutis	(doc make-array)
15:28	clojurebot	"([type len] [type dim & more-dims]); Creates and returns an array of instances of the specified class of the specified dimension(s). Note that a class object is required. Class objects can be obtained by using their imported or fully-qualified name. Class objects for the primitive types can be obtained using, e.g., Integer/TYPE."
15:28	sdegutis	And it's only for primitive types.
15:28	justin_smith	,(aset (into-array ["a" "b"]) 1 2) ; no, it is typed
15:29	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "java.lang.Long"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ArrayStoreException\n :message "java.lang.Long"\n :at [clojure.lang.RT aset "RT.java" 2340]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.lang.RT aset "RT.java" 2340]\n [sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl invoke0 "NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java" -2]\n [sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl invoke "NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java" 57]\n [sun.reflect.Deleg...
15:29	noncom\|2	? not only ?
15:29	justin_smith	see, it can't put a long into a string array - the array is actually typed
15:29	justin_smith	sdegutis: so you are wrong, even arrays of non-primitive types are typed
15:29	noncom\|2	but all this stuff is simply because arrays are special to JVM, it's just that
15:29	sdegutis	No sir.
15:30	justin_smith	sdegutis: generics are fictional, types of arrays are actual byte code fact
15:30	sdegutis	:)
15:31	lokien	how to force time function not to print results of the function? just the time of evaluation
15:31	justin_smith	lokien: (time (do (f) nil))
15:32	justin_smith	or (time (do (with-out-str (f)) nil))
15:33	noncom\|2	neoncontrails: i'm actually doing a thing with clojure + clojurescreept + threejs now. a neat setup if you're into some threejs
15:34	TimMc	justin_smith: Interestingly, java.lang.Class does provide support for talking about parameterized types, but I'm not clear what it buys you.
15:34	justin_smith	TimMc: is this something that's actually used?
15:34	noncom\|2	TimMc: maybe it's only compile time?
15:34	neoncontrails	noncoml2: no way. I was just working with three.js for the better part of last month!
15:34	neoncontrails	I'd love to see what you got.
15:35	lokien	justin_smith: thanks
15:36	noncom\|2	neoncontrails: well, currently i got a scene with two cubes :D - a result of a couple of days of work. but not simply a scene with cubes - everything is clojure way and i am implemeting an entity-component system to build games with it
15:36	noncom\|2	i'm not a pro in js and web, but done much opengl in java/cojure
15:36	noncom\|2	so now simply want to try out the browser multiplayer thing
15:37	TimMc	justin_smith: Dunno!
15:38	lokien	justin_smith: is there a memory limit for slurping?
15:38	justin_smith	hrm - there's a max string size limit, right?
15:39	noncom\|2	planning to opensource the basic project when i polish it a little so that if someone is interested, can pick it up.
15:39	lokien	is it?
15:39	justin_smith	when you get near that, you should probably be doing reads in a loop from an input source rather than a slurp
15:39	noncom\|2	lokien: there is
15:39	justin_smith	yes, there's a max string size
15:39	lokien	:( I wanted to slurp it
15:40	lokien	haskell had no problems with loading 2gig file, I can't load 800mb here
15:40	justin_smith	lokien: what about line-seq instead?
15:40	justin_smith	lokien: but did haskell turn it into a single 2gig string?
15:40	noncom\|2	iirc there was an option to use a custom reqder with slurp also?
15:40	justin_smith	lokien: we can load that much data, but you can't put it all in a single string object
15:40	noncom\|2	lokien: for sure haskell was just creating another kind of object. JVM has limitation on string length
15:41	lokien	welp. what do I do now?
15:41	lokien	can I load it line by line?
15:41	justin_smith	lokien: yes - line-seq
15:41	justin_smith	that gives you a lazy-seq of the lines
15:42	lokien	justin_smith: thanks, I'll try that
15:42	neoncontrails	nomcoml2: I feel your pain, three.js is one of the more unapologetically difficult libraries I've worked with
15:42	amalloy	justin_smith: well, haskell did turn it into single 2-gig string, but haskell has a different idea of what strings are than java does
15:42	noncom\|2	lokien: justin_smith: a bunch of replacements https://crossclj.info/docs.html?q=slurp
15:43	justin_smith	,(line-seq (java.io.BufferedReader. (java.io.StringReader. "a\nb\nc\n")))
15:43	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
15:43	noncom\|2	btw, will line-seq choke if there are no new lines in the whole file?
15:43	amalloy	well it will return one large string
15:43	amalloy	and if that doesn't fit in memory, you will have problems
15:44	justin_smith	right, that's why I asked if it made sense to split by lines
15:44	noncom\|2	neoncontrails: heheh, well, yeah, but most of my pain goes for the JS particularities... other than that I am fairly familiar with 3d engines and opengl stuff
15:44	noncom\|2	lokien: so beware of the newlines requirement too
15:45	noncom\|2	lokien: look, another solution: https://books.google.ru/books?id=H9tOCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=slurp+custom+reader&source=bl&ots=BEi-1HY2jO&sig=hkXf-BkMTFlLjgFRmYe8uWdq4ds&hl=ru&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj694f50qfKAhUiAXMKHeM5Ct0Q6AEILjAC#v=onepage&q=slurp%20custom%20reader&f=false
15:45	noncom\|2	lokien: bottom of the page
15:46	neoncontrails	noncomj2: my most successful tweet of 2015 compared graphics programming to pulling a fitted sheet over a thousand-dimensional mattress, heh
15:47	noncom\|2	neoncontrails: :D oh I understand that :D
15:48	lokien	java is broken :(
15:48	lokien	noncom\|2: thanks, I'll read that
15:49	noncom\|2	lokien: well, you see, java is very pragmatic. having a multi-gig string is an antipattern
15:49	noncom\|2	lokien: so the String concept in JVM is fitted for performance ond optimization needs
15:49	noncom\|2	lokien: and for other cases you can just read the data as bytes. which is dead easy to do either
15:50	lokien	noncom\|2: yeah, but it's late, and I'm getting buffer errors from java, it's annoying
15:50	noncom\|2	ah i see
15:51	justin_smith	,(line-seq (java.io.BufferedReader. (java.io.StringReader. "a\nb\nc\n")))
15:51	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
15:51	justin_smith	lokien: buffer errors, or errors that say you have the wrong class that mention buffer in it somewhere?
15:52	l1x	hi guys
15:52	lokien	justin_smith: I'll try that code you've just written
15:52	noncom\|2	l1x: hi!
15:52	l1x	what does it mean when java guys do this -> Class OrcFile.WriterOptions it seems it behaves differently from normal java classes
15:52	l1x	hi noncom\|2
15:53	justin_smith	lokien: well don't do the StringReader part - that was just an easy way for me to make an input source
15:53	justin_smith	so replace (java.io.StringReader. "") with your actual input source
15:53	lokien	"path/to/file"?
15:53	justin_smith	(java.io.File. "path/to/file")
15:54	justin_smith	so (line-seq (java.io.BufferedReader. (java.io.File. "path/to/file")))
15:54	lokien	now, how to prevent 800mb printing in the repl?
15:54	justin_smith	lokien: (def lines (line-seq ...))
15:54	amalloy	urgh
15:54	justin_smith	then you can use lines - it's a seq
15:54	amalloy	def-ing an 800mb lazy seq...
15:55	lokien	but.. well, that works, so it's good.
15:55	justin_smith	amalloy: there is that, yeah
15:55	amalloy	you really don't ever want that tied to a var
15:55	lokien	amalloy: sorry :(
15:55	amalloy	you want it let-bound to a local or a function arg
15:55	justin_smith	lokien: in your final code it can be in a let binding
15:55	noncom\|2	l1x: you mean you see "Class OrcFile.WriterOptions" in a java source?
15:55	lokien	justin_smith: it will be
15:55	justin_smith	I think for quick repl experiments it should be OK
15:55	justin_smith	lokien: makes sense, yeha
15:55	l1x	noncom\|2: well i am trying to call new on that but it does not work
15:55	l1x	for some weird reason
15:56	noncom\|2	l1x: can you post it into refheap and show?
15:56	noncom\|2	or pastebin or something
15:57	lokien	justin_smith: CompilerException java.lang.ClassCastException: Cannot cast java.io.File to java.io.Reader
15:57	noncom\|2	wrap the file in a reader
15:59	justin_smith	(-> "project.clj" java.io.File. clojure.java.io/reader java.io.BufferedReader. line-seq)
15:59	justin_smith	yeah, it's a lot of silly conversions
15:59	noncom\|2	actually it's very logical and gives a lot of flexibility
15:59	noncom\|2	i used to hate it too
16:00	justin_smith	scratch that - this suffices (-> "project.clj" clojure.java.io/reader line-seq)
16:00	noncom\|2	until i understood it
16:00	ridcully	l1x: are you looking for OrcFile$WriterOptions ?
16:01	lokien	noncom\|2: that's why I'm hating it now
16:01	justin_smith	lokien: you saw my simpler version above right? just io/reader lin-seq
16:02	justin_smith	there was a detour on the way to finding that again
16:02	noncom\|2	lokien: it's very unixy, you like pipe output of one subprogram into another. each subprogram allows for a specific conversion
16:02	lokien	justin_smith: I thought "scratch that" meant something else
16:02	lokien	noncom\|2: only linux!
16:03	noncom\|2	well, linuxy then :D they're not too different in this aspect afaik
16:03	lokien	ugh, why are you all so smart :^(
16:04	justin_smith	lokien: in my case it comes from a lot of time being stumped, and a lot of wrong answers corrected
16:06	noncom\|2	i rather often feel rather stupid btw
16:06	lokien	justin_smith: "I decided to use pull it out your ass driven development, where you just pull the answer out of your ass."
16:06	justin_smith	heh
16:07	noncom\|2	lokien: so, you really want a string in the end, but why? why you need a giga string?
16:07	lokien	I use it every time, and often have to rewrite /:
16:07	lokien	noncom\|2: I'm curious about the performance on big things
16:08	noncom\|2	lokien: you benchmark clojure/jvm or do you simply work with big data?
16:08	lokien	noncom\|2: I want to check how fast is clojure here compared to perl, and maybe haskell
16:09	l1x	noncom\|2: i figured out public static OrcFile.WriterOptions orc_options = OrcFile.writerOptions(conf);
16:09	l1x	OrcFile.WriterOptions is the type
16:09	l1x	ridcully: yes :)
16:10	justin_smith	in clojure that would be OrcFile$WriterOptions - not that $ is not an operator, it's part of the name
16:10	justin_smith	*note
16:13	lokien	justin_smith: java reached 2gigs of memory and stopped, funny
16:13	justin_smith	lokien: that's why amalloy was saying not to put it in the var
16:14	justin_smith	lokien: also, you can tell java to use more RAM
16:14	lokien	justin_smith: I forgot, I'm so bad
16:15	l1x	lokien: are you trying to read a file lazyly?
16:15	justin_smith	l1x: it's too big to go in a string
16:15	lokien	l1x: I'm doing it :^)
16:16	noncom\|2	lokien: is your jvm 32bit or 64bit
16:16	noncom\|2	?
16:16	l1x	justin_smith: ofc
16:16	lokien	noncom\|2: 64
16:19	sohail	hey guys, are there any good lein templates for http-kit based apps
16:21	justin_smith	sohail: changing from any other server in a ring app to http-kit should mean changing at most 4 lines (between project.clj and the namespace where you are loading and starting your http handler)
16:21	noncom\|2	sohail: luminus +http-kit for example
16:21	noncom\|2	+cljs also maybe
16:21	sohail	oh I'm just trying to find a template that lets me get started quickly, doing a lot of prototype work
16:21	noncom\|2	if you need it
16:22	sohail	what is luminus?
16:22	noncom\|2	sohail: http://www.luminusweb.net/docs/profiles.md
16:22	justin_smith	sohail: yeah, what I'm saying is, use any web template, and then when you need your web server to be http-kit, it's a question of changing like 4 lines
16:22	sohail	gotcha
16:23	domgetter	I'm trying to use compojure to make a defresource macro to make resources sort of like rails does. Any feedback on the macro is welcome: https://gist.github.com/domgetter/ce5a2d59b4e1817cd782
16:23	sohail	luminus looks good, thanks noncom\|2
16:23	noncom\|2	lokien: regarding your tasks, if you are not sure that the file will have new lines, i.e. it's some binary data, I'd use https://www.refheap.com/113632
16:24	noncom\|2	sohail: also, as justin says, you can just use it without http-kit, which will imply immutant 2 which is afaik better
16:24	noncom\|2	sohail: here's a good summary of all the options by the luminus creator: https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/3dpjpf/jetty_vs_http_kit_vs_aleph_vs_immutant_luminus_app/
16:25	lokien	noncom\|2: bookmarked
16:25	sohail	noncom\|2: right, I used http-kit last time because sente seemed to work well with it
16:26	noncom\|2	sohail: it now fully works with immutant 2 which is thought to be currently better maintained than http-kit
16:26	sohail	cool, I'll give it a shot
16:37	noncom\|2	lokien: i apologize it's too late for me too. feeling a bit dizzy :) the previous example deals with chars which are two bytes, but the file size is determined in bytes, so the array is made two times bigger than needed. besides, chars are not comfortable if you work with binary
16:37	noncom\|2	lokien: this one fixes this: https://www.refheap.com/113633
16:38	noncom\|2	had to come back to it, since i felt that what i posted had hidden catches and was not very correct
16:39	lokien	noncom\|2: well, bookmark out, bookmark in
16:39	lokien	thanks that you care
16:40	noncom\|2	:)
16:47	lokien	anyway, do you know some simple library for graphics? I wanted to mess around with a static game (it's played on paper normally) and I don't know if quil is a good choice
16:48	j-pb	lokien: I do all ui stuff in cljs
16:48	j-pb	reagent is great
16:48	j-pb	and it's so easy to get interactive stuff going
16:49	j-pb	especially for something like board games :)
16:49	lokien	j-pb: foreign grounds again, great
16:49	j-pb	:D
16:50	lokien	"read a book", they said. "you'll be a coder in 6 months", they said. and I'm still wandering in the dark
16:50	j-pb	haha well starting with clojure is a good thing
16:50	j-pb	what did you do before?
16:51	TimMc	lokien: Sounds like you're a coder. ;-)
16:51	TimMc	wandering in the dark is the human condition
16:51	futuro	lokien: yeah, I wouldn't expect that to change any time soon
16:51	j-pb	yeah
16:51	lokien	mainly python and haskell. some scala, go, perl, little bit of c and ocaml (very little)
16:51	j-pb	without google I wouldn't get shit done and I'm writing clojure for 3 years and have done CS for 10 years
16:51	ridcully	yet, if you don't know html/css this can be quite some adventure too
16:52	slester	I know it's probably not what you want to hear, but I've been struggling with Clojure for a year or so. Some things click, but just getting into the 'groove' (how things are done in clojure and not JavaScript/C/etc)
16:52	lokien	j-pb: hello, I'll interview you for your dream job, please write code on that whiteboard
16:52	slester	I just learned that (map f coll1 coll2) was a thing
16:52	lokien	TimMc: I'm trying D:
16:52	slester	etc.
16:53	lokien	ridcully: what kind of "adventure"?
16:53	j-pb	lokien: well I could do _that_^^, but "hey write a library that does xyz on that whiteboard" I would have some googling to do :D
16:53	lokien	slester: I get functional things cause I was writing haskell, but I don't get java at all :(
16:54	slester	I still don't know how to structure my clojure projects. Haha. :(
16:54	slester	lokien: that's a good situation to be in, wrapping my head around functional programming was quite the doozy of a first step!
16:54	slester	I came from C/PHP/JavaScript
16:54	j-pb	lokien: yeah, java is just weird, don't feel bad. It's the functional part that's hard and important ^^
16:54	lokien	j-pb: fast trip to the toilet would do
16:55	j-pb	toilets are like the muse behind every great algorithm
16:55	noncom\|2	lokien: confirming, quil is perfect for that. it is based on https://processing.org/
16:55	lokien	noncom\|2: clj or cljs?
16:55	noncom\|2	lokien: both
16:55	j-pb	noncom\|2: how so. If you want to do a board game thing you need interactivity
16:56	noncom\|2	theres processing and there's processing js
16:56	j-pb	noncom\|2: in the sense, that you want to click stuff
16:56	ridcully	lokien: maybe an unpleasent one. or an rabbitholish one.
16:56	lokien	noncom\|2: I mean, what'd be better
16:56	elvis4526	Is there any good documentation about laziness in clojure ?
16:56	lokien	I'm dreaming of client-server or p2p, but it's too ambitious for now
16:56	elvis4526	I'm still not sure how its implemented.
16:56	futuro	elvis4526: we keep meaning to get around to it, but something always comes up...
16:56	noncom\|2	lokien: depends. the cljs will require hosting with a web server, which you could quickly set up with, e.g. luminus
16:56	j-pb	noncom\|2: which is super easy with drawing svg but impossibly difficult with quil
16:57	j-pb	elvis4526: before 1.8 it was just a bunch of nested anonymous functions
16:57	lokien	ridcully: uh, why aren't there good tools in this world :^(
16:57	noncom\|2	lokien: i'd try simple clj first, then, if you want to show your friends or make a multiplayer, then you can easily lift it to cljs
16:57	ridcully	lokien: in the browser there is html/css, webgl, svg, canvas (maybe more) to chose to render to
16:57	elvis4526	j-pb: post clojure 1.8, what is it ?
16:57	lokien	noncom\|2: I'll do that
16:58	slester	noncom\|2: how do you suggest organizing code to have a CLJ + CLJS version live side-by-side?
16:58	j-pb	elvis4526: magic
16:58	slester	all of my functions are so intertwined and such, not sure how to organize it (even still)
16:58	j-pb	elvis4526: depends on the arity of map filter e.t.c.
16:58	noncom\|2	j-pb: um? don't really get what you mean. processing is just great at interactivity, both clj and cljs. they draw vector graphics too
16:58	elvis4526	j-pb: right - ok
16:59	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah but say you have a board game with a bunch of figures, and you want to be able to click or drag them, how would you register that
16:59	noncom\|2	slester: well, first you have to have a clean code. with processing/quil, the code will be shared up to 100% if you use only the prefactored API, and no java/javascript platform specific things
16:59	noncom\|2	j-pb: in quil/processing?
16:59	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah
17:00	noncom\|2	noncom\|2: i'd track the mouse position and mouse button events, like mouse pressed, mouse released. this will give me all the info i need about the mouse, so i can do anything within the game
17:00	slester	if anyone wants to give me tips for https://github.com/slester/amiss/blob/master/src/amiss/core.clj I'm definitely up for it haha.
17:00	j-pb	elvis4526: the arity 3 or more still use the nested fn's but the other 2 arity ones create transducers, which are agnostic to lazyness (can be defined over lazy seqs, arbitrary collections and even channels)
17:00	slester	reorganizing so I can end up making two versions
17:00	noncom\|2	j-pb: ^ that was for you :D
17:00	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah I know ^^
17:01	lokien_	it would be generating a hexagonal grid and marking fields with colours (basically that's entire game)
17:01	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah so you need to write your own event handling engine
17:01	j-pb	noncom\|2: which to say it noncharlantly, sucks monkey balls :D
17:01	lokien_	based on player's moves
17:01	lokien_	something like battleships
17:01	j-pb	noncom\|2: there is soooooo much stuff involved in this. What if figures overlap? what if you want click propagation
17:01	noncom\|2	j-pb: well, idk, i'm fine with all that kind of stuff. been doing games for ages
17:02	noncom\|2	http://www.openprocessing.org/sketch/17259
17:02	domgetter	elvis4526: are you wondering how it works, or are you trying to figure out what it does for you so you can wield laziness?
17:02	j-pb	noncom\|2: I'm not saying that it cant be done ^^ or that it's a bad approach for soething that requires continuous rendering (you would have to do the same in say canvas)
17:03	j-pb	noncom\|2: but it's a lot easier for a board game to just throw a reagent svg context on a page which brings all the event handling as part of the browser
17:03	neoncontrails	I feel like Clojure's map utility functions (assoc-in, update-in, etc.) are not-so-subtly hinting I should use keywords for keys, not strings. Does it make an efficiency difference?
17:03	elvis4526	domgetter: the latter
17:04	amalloy	neoncontrails: what makes you think they give you that hint?
17:04	noncom\|2	j-pb: ah, well, maybe, but then you get into all that html stuff. and speaking of games, html stuff is farther from it than writing some input processing. YMMW however
17:04	noncom\|2	j-pb: if you come from web dev and like it, i think then surely the web way will be far more pleasant
17:04	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah well it depends, I wouldn't want to do it in html ^^ but pure svg is bliss
17:05	lokien_	hey guise, maybe my description would help in your argument
17:05	sohail	ok, so I've got this thing in core.clj after creating a luminus app: http://pastebin.com/raw/n8ErvU2y but it seems like if I use cider-jack-in from emacs, things will be wonky... I'm still shaky on my repl dev.. should I be starting the repl and then calling (start-app)?
17:05	j-pb	lokien_: clickable hexagons a la battleship?
17:05	lokien_	j-pb: yeah
17:05	neoncontrails	amalloy: ooh I just noticed I can alternatively use list indices with assoc-in, etc.
17:06	j-pb	lokien_: I'd go with reagent and svg. I wouldnt want to write the logic that checks which hexagon the click is in
17:06	noncom\|2	slester: so what's the problem with your code? which parts break in clj<->cljs transition?
17:06	amalloy	use keywords (or other literals, like int if you're indexing non-string stuff) for your list keys when they are known at compile time and you type them in as source code literals; use strings instead of keywords when you're reading them in at runtime
17:07	neoncontrails	amalloy: I haven't found an example yet in the docs to change the value to which a string key is bound, though
17:07	domgetter	elvis4526: ah okay. try this in a repl: https://gist.github.com/domgetter/2f7fc4b085e58c092f7e
17:07	amalloy	??? it's exactly the same as everything else
17:07	lokien_	j-pb: would it be possible to make a map builder of some sort? that you'd create your own maps (there are two types of hexagons)
17:07	noncom\|2	sohail: yes, first start repl, go to the namespace where the function is and call (start-app []) - please note it requires 1 arg
17:07	amalloy	keywords are not special in any way to maps
17:07	amalloy	(get m k) (assoc m k v) and so on all work for any object k
17:07	domgetter	elvis4526: clojure will "actualize" chunks of 32 of a sequence at at time
17:08	neoncontrails	Well, that's good to know. I must just be syntactically off then
17:08	noncom\|2	sohail: also you should know that the IDE experience editing clj and cljs files will vary greatly. clj will be far more comfortable (likely)
17:08	j-pb	lokien_: yeah, I don't see why not
17:09	lokien_	j-pb: so I'll be asking more silly questions here, yay
17:09	j-pb	lokien_: if you get stuck don't hesitate to pm :)
17:09	noncom\|2	j-pb: lokien_: it's just that with web gui you'll have to organize all that transport between the browser and your backend (if you want to save your edited maps, you'll need a backend, yes)
17:09	sohail	noncom\|2: actually I have had better experience editing cljs files!
17:10	noncom\|2	sohail: wow! :D that's unusual
17:10	lokien_	j-pb: I'll remember that :)
17:10	sohail	noncom\|2 probably pebkac
17:10	domgetter	elvis4526: so even if that was (range 1000000), clojure would only make what it needs to do whatever work you asked of it (in 32 element chunks)
17:10	j-pb	noncom\|2: you can go with local storage if you really want to, most of the time I do "p2p" between browsers
17:10	lokien_	noncom\|2: yeah, I'll see what floats my boat
17:11	noncom\|2	j-pb: i also think that doing cljs/web is more commercial-correct, since it lets you do the web things which are more apt today - the bowser things. but yeah, it involves js, frontend, backend and stuff...
17:11	lokien_	anyway, if I make a game based on a board game.. do I need a licence to make it public?
17:11	noncom\|2	lokien_: technically you need to pack a license with everything
17:11	ridcully	lokien_: if in doubt, yes
17:12	lokien_	I mean, do I have to mail guys who made it
17:12	j-pb	lokien_: hint: if you want to have an empty map and fill it with hexagons. Just draw all the hexagons already but make them invisible (theres an option to make invisible elements clickable). Then when you press in "empty" space. You automagically click a hexagon click area :)
17:12	lokien_	j-pb: that's a good idea, actually. I need to read about hexagonal grids though
17:13	ridcully	lokien_: also you might _need_ a server side. you can store stuff in the browser, you can multiplay with webrtc etc (but the more complex things get, the more likely you need a server that goes beyond just serving files)
17:13	domgetter	lokien_: bookmark this sucker: http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/
17:13	lokien_	ridcully: if I finish it till 2017, I will call it a great success
17:13	noncom\|2	lokien_: just do a server from the start if you go cljs. it'll save much. thankfully, there are templates, like luminus, which can help you do it in a few seconds
17:13	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah somewhat. I found that you can work with cljs quite nicely without a server. And if you need cross browser communication say for multiplayer, I created a websocket library that automatically sets up a ring websocket that broadcasts to all connected clients
17:13	ridcully	gamasutra has some nice article about them. something like 10 facts you didn know about hexgrids
17:14	lokien_	domgetter: love you
17:14	noncom\|2	j-pb: idk, i always felt waaaaaaay safer with a backend
17:14	j-pb	noncom\|2: why though? putting one in takes like 5 seconds, and it's code you don't immediately need but have to maintain.
17:14	noncom\|2	lokien_: https://help.github.com/articles/open-source-licensing/
17:14	j-pb	lokien_: I'd probaly start with a figwheel cljs template
17:14	lokien_	I don't know how I lived without irc
17:15	domgetter	lokien_: all the examples are interactive on there
17:15	j-pb	lokien_: lein new figwheel MYAWESOMEPROJECT -- --reagent
17:15	noncom\|2	j-pb: robustness and the ability to interface with a db and other services..
17:15	j-pb	noncom\|2: yeah but while prototyping a game ^^
17:16	lokien_	noncom\|2: so, no monies for me from ideas I stole? eh :(
17:16	noncom\|2	j-pb: well, i actually was doing the whole thing at once. did not really seem to demanding or hard or something. it's only that js, css and html were at times getting me mad. but otherwise it's a breeze
17:16	noncom\|2	got pretty used to all that stuff before
17:17	noncom\|2	and when you do it right, a good infrastructure pays off really quickly, giving much comfort and freedom
17:17	j-pb	yeah I wouldn't want to do it in anything but reagent
17:17	j-pb	html is madness
17:17	j-pb	svg is nice though
17:17	noncom\|2	i was doing in in reagent :D
17:18	ridcully	that was what i meant with the "advententure" - the ones doing that web stuff for a decade or two now, don't remember all them madness that can arise
17:18	noncom\|2	lokien_: oh that's a hard question. if the game is like chess or battleships, surely, there's no patent for the idea
17:18	j-pb	game mechanics arent patentable
17:18	j-pb	nor trademakable
17:18	domgetter	j-pb I made a nice little typing game with reagent using core.async to do event logic: http://domgetter.github.io/typerooni/
17:18	j-pb	trademarks are trademarkable so don't calle it battleship
17:19	j-pb	domgetter: cool
17:19	lokien_	but story and universe is, I think
17:20	lokien_	s/is/are
17:20	noncom\|2	lokien_: yes, artwork... you can read the stack exchange law site, there are some very good answers about such things
17:20	j-pb	domgetter: total words: 77correct words: 71incorrect words: 6wpm: 76.6
17:20	ridcully	yet there is always the question of: how much money are you willing to pay laywers
17:21	noncom\|2	ridcully: yeah, funny, but in the end - money is all. often.
17:21	lokien_	ridcully: I have like, 50 dollars
17:21	ridcully	many table top games g[eo]t ported to mobile etc. maybe you just piss off the wrong crowd
17:21	domgetter	j-pb: the average ms column is how many millisecds it takes you on average to type the wordlet on the left
17:21	j-pb	cool
17:22	j-pb	wow I suck a le
17:22	lokien_	there is this dilemma now - do I mail them or not. if I don't mail them, maybe they'll never know
17:22	ridcully	you suck ale?
17:22	j-pb	317ms ^^
17:22	j-pb	at
17:22	j-pb	^^
17:22	lokien_	noncom\|2: I will
17:23	noncom\|2	lokien_: actually, if you do all the pictures yourself (or hire someone), and give your own names to all the stuff and things, then there's nothing to worry
17:23	noncom\|2	some minor tweaks to game mechanics also won't hurt
17:25	lokien_	noncom\|2: there are not so many pictures, I can do them by myself. but now I'll have to pay this irc for being real devs behind that
17:25	noncom\|2	:D
17:29	lokien_	also, I don't give you name of that game, I know you, clojure hacks. justin_smith would instantly make all the logic
17:29	lokien_	in one line
17:30	justin_smith	(win-game)
17:30	j-pb	(def wingame (constantly true))
17:30	lokien_	:(
17:30	lokien_	knew that
17:30	elvis4526	Would core.async be a good way to implement a stream ?
17:31	elvis4526	Or there's something more idiomatic in clojure
17:31	justin_smith	elvis4526: what kind of stream?
17:31	j-pb	(def wingame (comp not #{:lokien_} get-user))
17:31	noncom\|2	slester: amiss in its current form does not seem to have problems with being shared by clj/cljs.. idk.. maybe i am missing something
17:32	j-pb	elvis4526: depends on your kind of stream, seqs are also kinda streams :)
17:32	lokien_	j-pb: thanks, man
17:32	elvis4526	justin_smith: I'm trying to abstract the paginated results of a REST API.
17:32	domgetter	elvis4526: core.async is good for coordinating several different asynchronous operations.
17:32	j-pb	lokien_: most welcome ;P
17:32	j-pb	elvis4526: a seq it is
17:32	elvis4526	j-pb: thats what i was trying to wrap my head around (hence the question about laziness), but I'm not sure I understand
17:32	slester	noncom\|2: basically my concern is that I'm not setting up a good project structure so that I can expand it in the future
17:32	elvis4526	correctly.
17:33	j-pb	elvis4526: flochart is like this. Does it have an end, or goes on infinitely without significant blocking. -> seq
17:33	j-pb	elvis4526: is that thing a bitch and might stall your thread when no item is available for an unbounded unknown amount of time? -> channel
17:33	justin_smith	elvis4526: you could do that with a lazy-seq (defn get-results [url cursor] (cons (slurp (make-url cursor)) (lazy-seq (get-results url (inc cursor)))) - something like this
17:34	noncom\|2	slester: well, clojure is not too different in project structuring than most of the other languages... it's just namespaces are more resembling abstract java classes full with static members.. vaguely...
17:34	lokien_	j-pb: I'll annoy the heck out of you
17:34	j-pb	lokien_: please do :D
17:34	slester	I guess it's mostly having to do a bunch of (declare x)
17:35	j-pb	lokien_: I really really want to write a cljs board game library but I have a different project on my plate right now
17:35	j-pb	but it will be a part of it :D
17:35	lokien_	j-pb: oh.
17:35	noncom\|2	slester: looking at your code i can say, that it's ok now, i've seen such an example of code many times. if you are wondering about organizing it - try splitting it logically into namespaces
17:36	j-pb	lokien_: heres some hacking music : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhsTmiK7Q2M
17:36	noncom\|2	slester: well, declares are not too god, but sometimes they are inevitable or very handy. i do not see any particular problem with your code. try eliminating declares by placing the functions in the correct order, when possible
17:36	sdegutis	oh man
17:36	sdegutis	deadly
17:37	justin_smith	sdegutis: watch it, I'm wearing the glove
17:38	elvis4526	j-pb: ok i see
17:38	noncom\|2	noncom\|2: and split the code in namespaces.. for example, if you have any global state, it's better to reside in a separate namespace... just take a look at some existing good clojure libraries to get some inspiration
17:38	sdegutis	what if there was a ->>> macro?
17:38	sdegutis	that would be crazy
17:38	elvis4526	justin_smith: im guessing its a "stream" because of lazy-seq ?
17:38	lokien_	j-pb: why not the sound of silence?
17:38	noncom\|2	slester: then you can submit your code for a review, for example, here and if somebody's around, they could take a look
17:38	elvis4526	if i do (lazy-seq [1 2 3]), do I get back something lazy ?
17:38	j-pb	lokien_: hahaha lol
17:39	j-pb	lokien_: hello darkness my old friend
17:39	justin_smith	elvis4526: it has the property that you can load elements one at a time as needed - lazy-seqs are "pull driven" unlike core.async which is "push driven"
17:39	justin_smith	elvis4526: if that makes sense
17:39	slester	noncom\|2: they have circular dependencies which is why I had to declare
17:39	slester	is there a specific way to submit for a review? or just ask? haha
17:39	domgetter	,(type (lazy-seq [1 2 3]))
17:39	justin_smith	elvis4526: yes, that is lazy, but also all the items are realized. A lazy thing remains lazy even when all the work has been done.
17:40	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
17:40	justin_smith	slester: the standard solution is to make a third namespace, that uses things from the other two
17:40	lokien_	j-pb: by the way, my dream is to make a retro platformer with this soundtrack https://youtu.be/q9HzqxwKfiM
17:40	j-pb	lokien_: hahahahah lol
17:40	domgetter	,(realized? (lazy-seq [1 2 3]))
17:40	clojurebot	false
17:41	slester	justin_smith: thanks, I'll see if that's feasible with my code heh
17:41	slester	I just feel like it's really messy and I've already lost a handle on what's going on
17:42	noncom\|2	slester: yeah, try factoring thing in a side namespace
17:42	noncom\|2	maybe a rewrite would do...
17:42	noncom\|2	start with a ns to hold state
17:42	noncom\|2	another ns for simple queries on the state
17:43	noncom\|2	another ns for decisions
17:43	noncom\|2	and so on
17:43	noncom\|2	(as an example)
17:43	slester	that's probably smart
17:43	slester	this was my first clojure project so I was kind of feeling around in the dark :D
17:44	noncom\|2	slester: no procedure for a review, just ask.. if someone feels like having some time, i think they take a look
17:44	noncom\|2	oh my, my first clojure projects were terrible!
17:44	lokien_	my first clojure project was fizzbuzz :^(
17:46	domgetter	lokien_: mine was basically fizzbuzz too, since ProjectEuler #1 is the same thing
17:47	lokien_	domgetter: I have bad memories with project euler and haskell
17:48	domgetter	haskell's not well-suited to do math :P
17:48	lokien_	like "yeah, I can't write a hello world, but I know what a functor is, I'll do that"
17:48	slester	project euler isn't the best for programming
17:48	lokien_	7 hours later
17:48	slester	in my experience
17:48	lokien_	slester: advent of code all the way!
17:49	slester	lokien_: hey I got on the leaderboard 5-6 of the days with clojure
17:49	slester	https://github.com/slester/amiss/blob/master/src/amiss/core.clj if people want to tear it apart :D
17:49	slester	(my game, not advent of code)
17:49	benjyz1	hi. I'm working with channels and wondering about buffering. the standard (chan) means each put requires 1 take?
17:50	domgetter	benjyz1: technically (chan) has no buffer. that's why a put waits for the take
17:50	domgetter	if there was a buffer of one, then the put could put and the next put would then experience a waiting period
17:51	benjyz1	I see. I've seen some examples about simple use of channels, but wondering about complex use cases
17:51	lokien_	slester: I've done one problem with go, and it was.. gross. but I was so happy when it finally worked
17:51	noncom\|2	slester: well, the first advice still holds: make a ns for state, then a ns for functions that query state, then a ns for functions that write state, then a ns for functions that do higher-order logic.
17:51	slester	lokien_: go is fun
17:51	domgetter	some of the more complex uses are done through using the other core.async functions (mult-ing, alt-ing, fan-ing, pubsub, etc)
17:51	slester	noncom\|2: yep, that'll be incorporated into the rewrite
17:52	lokien_	slester: perl is fun, go is savage
17:52	slester	perl...
17:52	slester	haha
17:52	slester	I just can't do Perl
17:53	lokien_	because you're no fun!
17:54	benjyz1	domgetter: yes, I'm looking at those. I'm trying to understand the basic use of blocking and non-blocking
17:54	benjyz1	often it is mentioned one can get rid of callback hell
17:54	noncom\|2	benjyz1: give an example of a complex use of channels
17:55	benjyz1	e.g. I have an API I'm writing against. it only has polling. so I want to write a callback on the client via channels
17:56	domgetter	benjyz1: I'm an audiovisual learner, and if you're the same, I urge you to watch this entire video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhxcGGeh5ho
17:56	benjyz1	request every few milli seconds, then if there is a change put that event on a channel. i.e. something like Event stream processing
17:57	noncom\|2	benjyz1: good, seems like a good task for c.a.
17:57	benjyz1	thx, I think I know this one. for UI and clojurescript it async is awesome
17:58	benjyz1	https://yobriefca.se/blog/2014/06/01/combining-and-controlling-channels-with-core-dot-asyncs-merge-and-mix/
17:58	benjyz1	this is quite a nice article on merge and mix
17:58	sdegutis	Remember when Clojure was a Common Lisp spin-off?
18:00	domgetter	sdegutis: remember when some lispweeines thought it was an abomination? http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42
18:01	lokien_	when I mentioned on #lisp that I use clojure, they called me a troll
18:01	noncom\|2	well, #lisp is for common lisp only. #lisp-cafe is for lisps in general
18:01	sdegutis	LOL "I don’t care if everybody really is more productive in Clojure than in Common Lisp."
18:01	sdegutis	I hope one day to finish implementing my very own Lisp!
18:02	lokien_	noncom\|2: I was asking about cl, just mentioned I'm familiar with clojure
18:02	sdegutis	Once it has its own IRC channel, it will be officially a real language!
18:02	lokien_	sdegutis: me too
18:03	noncom\|2	lokien_: yeah, they don't perceive clojure serious.. but some of them use it though
18:04	noncom\|2	nice one: https://github.com/Habstinat/ParentheticLisp
18:04	sdegutis	Common Lisp and Haskell have very similar communities.
18:04	noncom\|2	yeah. and C
18:04	sdegutis	I think it comes from the purism that both languages seem to aim for.
18:04	sdegutis	C is awesome.
18:05	noncom\|2	yeah, just as haskell and common lisp
18:05	sdegutis	Haskell is neat.
18:05	lokien_	noncom\|2: it's sad they're so closed and think their tools have no flaws
18:05	noncom\|2	well, common lisp may seem obscure to some, but i know it's cool
18:05	sdegutis	CL is weird and boring.
18:05	lokien_	sdegutis: some haskell people are nice
18:05	sdegutis	I bet.
18:06	noncom\|2	lokien_: just a flavor of the general variety
18:06	noncom\|2	well, cl was there always
18:06	noncom\|2	it's what kept lisp on for years
18:06	noncom\|2	there also was scheme, but it's umm.. a funny one, although not bad
18:07	lokien_	and racket, duh
18:07	noncom\|2	yeah
18:07	noncom\|2	racket
18:08	benjyz1	has anyone attempt writing a webserver in pure clojure?
18:08	noncom\|2	benjyz1: waht do you mean? you'd have to at least reach for java sockets
18:08	justin_smith	benjyz1: by "pure" do you mean no interop? if yes, then it's impossible
18:08	justin_smith	if no, then http-kit is pure clojure
18:09	noncom\|2	benjyz1: clojure is not about eliminating interop. it's about embracing interop easily when it is needed
18:09	lokien_	but where is my c interop? sdegutis?
18:09	benjyz1	I mean several projects use netty
18:09	justin_smith	I take that back, http-kit has a bunch of java code
18:10	sdegutis	easy
18:10	sdegutis	noncom\|2: what about guile?
18:10	lokien_	justin_smith: delete it and it will be pure clojure :)
18:10	sdegutis	why everyone forgot about guile tho?
18:10	benjyz1	netty has some kind of channel semantics. I wonder what would happen if one would use clojure async.
18:10	lokien_	isn't it a scheme?
18:10	lokien_	guile scheme?
18:10	justin_smith	benjyz1: see aleph with manifold, it's intended for that sort of thing
18:11	noncom\|2	benjyz1: there's no point in writing a server in pure clojure. the fact is that most of the concepts underlying a netwrorking interface are better expressed in imperative manner which just works better with how CPUs are made. that's why the roots are always imperative.
18:11	noncom\|2	aleph also uses a load of java inside afaik
18:11	sdegutis	Oh man I forgot that CL is a Lisp 2.
18:11	sdegutis	How stupid.
18:12	noncom\|2	sdegutis: well, guile is scheme...
18:12	lokien_	what about chicken though?
18:12	noncom\|2	scheme
18:12	sdegutis	lol nobody uses that anymore
18:12	lokien_	I used it!
18:12	lokien_	for like 14 minutes
18:12	noncom\|2	there's also picolisp - a rather neat thing
18:13	justin_smith	I should make a "c interop" lib that consists solely of the ability to tell the computer to execute a byte array as if it were machine code
18:13	justin_smith	and just let the user deal with the consequences
18:13	lokien_	oh, and pixie!!
18:13	domgetter	hey look, Ruby is a lisp too! [:+, 1, 2, 3]
18:13	benjyz1	noncom\|2 : I'm not entirely sure. sockets is in the end a streaming protocol. Actors e.g. is semantics on top of streaming
18:14	lokien_	justin_smith: do it please
18:14	noncom\|2	justin_smith: :D and attribute it like "unsafe" or "unmanaged" functions
18:14	noncom\|2	benjyz1: not sure about what?
18:14	benjyz1	async is not a distributed protocol like Erlang actors
18:14	sdegutis	pixie looks cool but PyPy freaks me out
18:14	benjyz1	about your statement.
18:14	justin_smith	well even "function" is a few levels of fancy abstraction higher than what I was describing...
18:14	lokien_	"pretty safe" is a better attribute
18:15	noncom\|2	benjyz1: you mean that in erlang networking can be realized solely in terms of erlangian paradigms, without going C ?
18:15	justin_smith	noncom\|2: (def ^:suicidal frob [] (execute-byte-array-as-machine-code b))
18:15	noncom\|2	rrrriiiiiight! :D
18:15	nutnutnutnut	what's a good way of turning [1 2 3] in to [1 :a 2 :a 3 :a]?
18:15	noncom\|2	interpose + conj ?
18:16	justin_smith	,(mapcat #(list % :a) [1 2 3])
18:16	clojurebot	(1 :a 2 :a 3 ...)
18:16	noncom\|2	wow
18:16	benjyz1	noncom\|2: Erlang, AFAIK, implements pure actors, which means that process on one machine is identical to process on distributed machine
18:16	lokien_	justin_smith: why didn't you use c interop for that
18:16	nutnutnutnut	! that works well
18:16	justin_smith	noncom\|2: interpose doesn't get you that last :a
18:16	lokien_	it'd fit perfectly
18:16	justin_smith	heh
18:16	noncom\|2	justin_smith: that's why i put conj there also :D but it looked hacky. i like your way\
18:16	benjyz1	here Hickey wrote a bit about downsides of actors clojure.org/agents
18:17	lokien_	also, BEAM is slow
18:17	domgetter	,(into [] (interleave [1 2 3] (repeat :a)))
18:17	clojurebot	[1 :a 2 :a 3 ...]
18:17	noncom\|2	benjyz1: yeah, sure, but in erlang you have no big freedom over low-level. you're just stuck into acting in its limits. while it's great for it's tasks, it can be slow and stuff
18:17	sdegutis	nutnutnutnut: I'd like join them with two maps or something
18:17	nutnutnutnut	yeah i was trying that too...
18:17	nutnutnutnut	did a repeat of :a and zipmap'd them
18:18	sdegutis	,(flatten (map list [1 2 3] (repeat :a)))
18:18	clojurebot	(1 :a 2 :a 3 ...)
18:18	sdegutis	,(pr-str (flatten (map list [1 2 3] (repeat :a))))
18:18	clojurebot	"(1 :a 2 :a 3 ...)"
18:18	sdegutis	clojurebot: WTF ITS NOT THAT LONG A THING JUST PRINT THE WHOLE THING PLZ
18:18	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
18:18	sdegutis	clojurebot: dont make me sense a pull request mf
18:18	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
18:18	noncom\|2	benjyz1: so when i was saying that there's no point in writing a server in pure clojure, i meant that it cannot be done because clojure does not abstract from JVM like erlang abstracts from C
18:18	sdegutis	oh man the arrogance of that little bot
18:19	domgetter	I'm sensing a pull request in the near future...
18:19	nutnutnutnut	(vec (map (fn [xs] (vec (mapcat #(vector % :a) xs))) a))
18:19	nutnutnutnut	any way to get rid of all the vec calls?
18:19	noncom\|2	noncom\|2: clojure actually likes JVM. it just thinks it could use a lispy makeup. but erlang is faaaar from C
18:20	nutnutnutnut	a is [[0 1 2] [3 4 5] [6 7 8] [0 3 6] [1 4 7] [2 5 8] [0 4 8] [2 4 6]] btw
18:20	lokien_	mapv?
18:20	nutnutnutnut	oo
18:20	nutnutnutnut	i take it there's no mapcatv as well
18:21	lokien_	OH MY GOD WAS I ACTUALLY USEFUL FOR SOMEONE
18:21	nutnutnutnut	lol
18:21	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: why do you need these things to be vectors?
18:21	nutnutnutnut	yeah you're probably right
18:21	lokien_	noncom\|2: why are you talking to yourself
18:21	nutnutnutnut	hopefully they dont need to be
18:21	amalloy	i agree, you usually don't need vectors. but if you do, you probably use (into []) with a concat transducer or something
18:22	justin_smith	well I was asking an honest question - if they do need to be vectors then you can figure it out, but maybe they don't need to be
18:22	nutnutnutnut	everything else is a vector of vectors right now so i was trying to keep it uniform
18:22	noncom\|2	lokien_: damn, was talking to benjyz1. i keep pressing on my nick. happens for the second time. gotta sleep :D
18:22	sdegutis	Oh duh
18:22	nutnutnutnut	might still work though if they're different
18:22	sdegutis	Why did I miss this
18:22	lokien_	noncom\|2: I wanted to sleep, but irc is too much fun
18:23	sdegutis	,(apply concat (for [a [1 2 3] b [:a]] [a b]))
18:23	clojurebot	(1 :a 2 :a 3 ...)
18:23	noncom\|2	lokien_: yeah :D
18:23	justin_smith	,(= '(1 2 3) [1 2 3])
18:23	clojurebot	true
18:23	sdegutis	hahaha stupid `for`, you rock
18:25	amalloy	nutnutnutnut: usually you can just work with a more abstract collection type: "anything sequential" is often good enough
18:25	nutnutnutnut	lokien_: if you're looking for fun you can try to do https://www.4clojure.com/problem/73#prob-title
18:25	nutnutnutnut	thats what im working on right now.. i have a really good idea for a solution
18:25	lokien_	noncom\|2: "I want to be an engineer, dad, I'll build wonderful things and help people"
18:26	lokien_	noncom\|2: but in reality, I just want to talk on irc
18:26	noncom\|2	:D well, communication is a wonderful thing actually!
18:26	lokien_	nutnutnutnut: what makes me look like a good partner for it?
18:26	nutnutnutnut	no no not partner
18:26	nutnutnutnut	race!
18:26	noncom\|2	everything commutes
18:27	noncom\|2	except that which does not of course
18:27	lokien_	man, I'm in bed for two hours now :(
18:27	domgetter	like matrix multiplication? That doesn't commute
18:27	lokien_	noncom\|2: what if world runs on erlang, and we're just actors
18:28	noncom\|2	next day at work: "man what's up with you? you look like a junkie" ... "mrhh.. i'm on #irc.. "
18:28	lokien_	nutnutnutnut: github.com/youarebeautiful/tictactoe
18:28	lokien_	nutnutnutnut: I won
18:28	noncom\|2	heh, yeah, :)
18:28	nutnutnutnut	boo
18:28	lokien_	noncom\|2: "I'm a professional hacker"
18:29	noncom\|2	esp if you irc from emacs
18:29	noncom\|2	or at least vim :)
18:29	lokien_	nutnutnutnut: I hacked back in time to do that and ashame you
18:29	nutnutnutnut	gasp!
18:30	lokien_	noncom\|2: tty3, be a man
18:30	lokien_	I hand craft my connections in c
18:30	lokien_	every time
18:31	noncom\|2	ahahh :D
18:31	noncom\|2	and use a repl to send messages
18:31	noncom\|2	with a lisp written byself in c
18:32	lokien_	and lint messages on the fly with perl, to not make grammar mistakes
18:33	lokien_	anyway, I'm going to sleep, you addicting group of nice people
18:33	noncom\|2	good night!
18:33	lokien_	kind is a better word, actually
18:33	noncom\|2	class
18:33	lokien_	g'night, beautiful clojuristas
18:37	nutnutnutnut	hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
18:37	nutnutnutnut	not sure how to do this
18:37	nutnutnutnut	is it possible to..
18:37	nutnutnutnut	so im doing something like this: (mapcat #(vector % p) xs)
18:38	nutnutnutnut	for p i want to be able to pass in :o, :x, or (z %)
18:38	nutnutnutnut	for the last case it should actually evaluate it
18:38	nutnutnutnut	is there a consise way of doing that?
18:38	domgetter	nutnutnutnut: you don't like (mapv #(vec (interleave % (repeat :a))) a) ?
18:39	nutnutnutnut	i mean that works fine but in either case i have that problem
18:39	nutnutnutnut	z is a local variable btw
18:39	nutnutnutnut	in context of the outer function it's in
18:39	justin_smith	,(mapcat #(list % (%2 %)) [1 2 3] [(constantly :b) (constantly :c) identity])
18:39	clojurebot	(1 :b 2 :c 3 ...)
18:41	nutnutnutnut	o
18:41	nutnutnutnut	constantly.. hmm ok
18:41	justin_smith	that way it's consistent - you call the second item every time
18:41	justin_smith	sometimes it uses the arg, sometimes not
18:41	nutnutnutnut	very clever!
18:51	souterrain	So, constantly rather than evaluating argument many times just returns a function that gives the same result?
18:52	souterrain	So, very useful for functions that have side effects you only want to trigger once?
18:52	justin_smith	that's one use for it
18:52	justin_smith	see also memoize
18:53	justin_smith	or even delay
18:53	nutnutnutnut	does anyone know if you can use eval in 4clojure?
18:53	justin_smith	~eval
18:53	clojurebot	eval is sometimes useful - but only sometimes
18:53	blake__	nutnutnutnut: I don't think so. I think it's verboten.
18:53	souterrain	ok, looking... sorry, total clojure noob here, but this is the most excited I've been about writing code in about 15 years :)
18:54	nutnutnutnut	damn
18:54	justin_smith	heh
18:54	nutnutnutnut	justin how do i do this without eval :?
18:54	justin_smith	one moment, setting up a migration (day job)
18:54	nutnutnutnut	okie dokie
18:55	sdegutis	setting up?
18:55	sdegutis	oh right you're not using datomic
18:55	justin_smith	:P
18:55	sdegutis	:D
18:56	souterrain	justin_smith: ok, so there are many ways to deal with, say, network side effects. (HTTP GETs, PUTs, etc.)
18:56	souterrain	wow, POSTs, not PUTs.
18:57	nutnutnutnut	hmmmm
18:57	souterrain	who uses PUT
18:57	nutnutnutnut	idk if clojure understands what im trying to do
18:58	sdegutis	compojure does afaik
18:58	sdegutis	compojure also respects the "_method" param
18:58	sdegutis	its super magic
18:59	nutnutnutnut	is it possible to send a list like this '(z %) to inside an anonymous shorthand function and then eval it?
18:59	nutnutnutnut	clojure keeps saying he doesnt know what % is
18:59	nutnutnutnut	z is a local binding
18:59	sdegutis	probably not
18:59	nutnutnutnut	grr
18:59	nutnutnutnut	theres gotta be a way to do this lol
18:59	sdegutis	,((fn [a] (eval 'a)) 2)
18:59	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context"\n ...
19:00	nutnutnutnut	ok so clojure cant do that then
19:00	sdegutis	anyway look
19:00	sdegutis	https://github.com/weavejester/compojure/blob/master/src/compojure/core.clj#L17-L18
19:00	nutnutnutnut	is there any alternative?
19:00	nutnutnutnut	i cant use eval anyway i guess
19:00	nutnutnutnut	because of 4clojure
19:00	sdegutis	just run it in lein repl
19:00	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: if you do it the way I did before, just pass in z, and let the function inside call z on the arg
19:01	nutnutnutnut	hmm ok ill take another look
19:06	nutnutnutnut	hooray it worked!
19:06	nutnutnutnut	ok almost done ...!
19:06	nutnutnutnut	this is gonna be the best solution
19:08	nutnutnutnut	hmm
19:09	nutnutnutnut	for some reason doing (pos? (count (intersection set1 set2))) works
19:09	nutnutnutnut	but just calling subset? doesnt work
19:09	nutnutnutnut	arent those statements equivalent?
19:09	nutnutnutnut	tried both superset and subset. neither worked
19:17	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: depends, are the args both sets?
19:18	nutnutnutnut	yeah
19:19	domgetter	nutnutnutnut they are not equivalent
19:19	domgetter	a set may share elements with another but not be a subset
19:19	justin_smith	ahh, right
19:19	justin_smith	(inc domgetter)
19:19	justin_smith	d'oh
19:20	domgetter	consider #{1 2 3} and #{2 3 4}. the count of their intersection is 2, since their intersection is #{2 3}, but neither is a subset of the other
19:20	justin_smith	domgetter is a witch
19:20	nutnutnutnut	oh right
19:20	nutnutnutnut	in that case.. is there a more concise way of writing this? (pos? (count (clojure.set/intersection (set list1) (set list2))))
19:21	justin_smith	,(boolean (filter (set list1) list2))
19:21	justin_smith	err, sorry
19:21	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: list1 in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: list1 in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6688]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: list1 in this...
19:21	nutnutnutnut	ahh poor clojurebot
19:21	nutnutnutnut	!
19:21	domgetter	(not (empty? (intersection s1 s2))) perhaps
19:21	justin_smith	,(boolean (filter #{1 2 3} [3 4 5]))
19:21	clojurebot	true
19:22	justin_smith	domgetter: I think filter might be cheaper than intersection...
19:22	nutnutnutnut	,(filter #{1 2 3} [3 4 5])
19:22	clojurebot	(3)
19:22	nutnutnutnut	ah
19:22	justin_smith	,(boolean (some #{1 2 3} [3 4 5]))
19:22	clojurebot	true
19:22	justin_smith	even better
19:22	justin_smith	only needs one result
19:22	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: a set acts as a function which looks its arg up in itself
19:23	justin_smith	that sentence looks weird...
19:23	nutnutnutnut	yeah i always forget that
19:24	justin_smith	,(defn kanye [x] (= kanye x))
19:24	clojurebot	#'sandbox/kanye
19:24	justin_smith	,(kanye kanye)
19:24	clojurebot	true
19:24	justin_smith	,(kanye :anything-else)
19:24	clojurebot	false
19:24	justin_smith	that's probably got a name in the lambda calculus
19:24	justin_smith	but I'll just call it the kanye function
19:24	nutnutnutnut	omg this solution is gonna be soooooooo good
19:25	nutnutnutnut	im so excited lol. i keep looking at how clever that 'constantly' use is
19:25	nutnutnutnut	never would have thought of that
19:53	nutnutnutnut	!!!!!! done!
19:53	nutnutnutnut	omg this is so good
19:56	nutnutnutnut	ok here's the code. i think there may be some ways to get rid of the vec calls but not sure.. http://pastebin.com/8Di5ykEW
19:56	nutnutnutnut	spoilers 4clojure level 73
19:56	nutnutnutnut	can anyone see any more ways to shorten it?
19:57	nutnutnutnut	besides things like variables names, etc.
19:58	justin_smith	(vec (flatten board)) could be (reduce into [] board)
19:59	nutnutnutnut	flatten is actually a character shorter :p
19:59	justin_smith	flatten is terrible
19:59	justin_smith	and with reduce into it's a vector from the get-go, no need for vec
19:59	nutnutnutnut	yeah i just mean (vec (flatten board)) is 21 characters and (reduce into [] board) is 22 characters
20:00	nutnutnutnut	my friend and i both did this problem and we're seeing who can beat it in less characters
20:00	justin_smith	OK, but the latter is doing less work, but if character count is the thing (apply concat board)
20:01	nutnutnutnut	haha nice 1 character savings
20:01	nutnutnutnut	oh wait
20:01	nutnutnutnut	i only use z in one place
20:01	nutnutnutnut	i can just inline that
20:02	nutnutnutnut	same with w
20:03	domgetter	(let [r reduce i into b board] (r i [] b))
20:04	justin_smith	haha
20:04	nutnutnutnut	updated: http://pastebin.com/iiL6M4af
20:04	nutnutnutnut	domgetter: not sure what you mean by that
20:05	domgetter	just bein silly
20:06	nutnutnutnut	i wish the word constantly wasnt so long haha
20:07	justin_smith	#(do % x) is the shortest version of (constantly x) (if you know it gets one arg)
20:07	domgetter	nutnutnutnut: you can def anything you want
20:07	domgetter	(def con constantly)
20:07	justin_smith	(fn [_] x) ?
20:07	nutnutnutnut	yeah not sure if it would be worth it though
20:08	nutnutnutnut	i think it'd be around the same amount of characterrs
20:08	domgetter	I just wanted to write def con
20:08	justin_smith	(fn [_] x) isn't so bad, and saves chars
20:08	nutnutnutnut	also i dont think 4clojure allows def
20:08	justin_smith	(fn[_]x) saves chars the messy way
20:08	nutnutnutnut	why that over do?
20:11	justin_smith	,(map count ["#(do x)" "(fn[_]x)"])
20:11	clojurebot	(7 8)
20:11	justin_smith	hmm
20:12	justin_smith	oh, wait
20:12	justin_smith	,(map count ["#(do % x)" "(fn[_]x)"])
20:12	clojurebot	(9 8)
20:12	justin_smith	it needs the %
20:12	nutnutnutnut	see anything else justin_smith? http://pastebin.com/3A0meCny
20:13	nutnutnutnut	lol so gross
20:13	justin_smith	list is shorter than vector
20:13	justin_smith	and I bet a list would be as good as a vector where you are calling it
20:14	nutnutnutnut	yeah changing that vector to list worked
20:14	justin_smith	and I don't think you need the (vec ...) call at all
20:14	nutnutnutnut	oh nice i could get rid of the other vector call too
20:14	justin_smith	you can probably take that out
20:14	nutnutnutnut	wasnt working earlier
20:14	justin_smith	yeah
20:14	nutnutnutnut	oh wait
20:14	nutnutnutnut	hold on
20:14	nutnutnutnut	maybe not
20:14	nutnutnutnut	forgot to redef it
20:15	justin_smith	and I think mapv could be map
20:17	nutnutnutnut	yeah whoops ive been running the wrong version
20:17	nutnutnutnut	i dont think the apply concat trick from earlier worked
20:17	nutnutnutnut	when i do that some of the code is lists and some of it is vectors
20:17	nutnutnutnut	and it stops giving correct output
20:18	nutnutnutnut	it'd be nice if this could work just on sequences because all the vector calls take up space
20:19	justin_smith	well (reduce into s) is the same as (reduce into [] s) if the first element of s is a vector
20:23	justin_smith	oh I see you are using p as a function, and p is each element of w
20:24	nutnutnutnut	yea?
20:24	justin_smith	no, wait...
20:24	justin_smith	you are calling get
20:24	justin_smith	if you changed get to nth it would work without vectors
20:25	nutnutnutnut	also are you sure that (fn [_] :x) trick works?
20:25	nutnutnutnut	i tried changing constantly to it and am getting errors
20:25	justin_smith	how many args do you provide? the count has to match
20:26	justin_smith	with two args it is (fn[_ _]x)
20:26	justin_smith	etc.
20:26	nutnutnutnut	ah
20:26	justin_smith	oh (fn[&_]x) - this accepts any number of args
20:27	nutnutnutnut	like this? (set (f (fn [&_] :x))) :x
20:27	nutnutnutnut	maybe ill just stick to constantly. only an extra couple characaters
20:28	justin_smith	,(map (partial apply (fn[&_]42)) [[][1][1 2][1 2 3]])
20:28	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox/eval25/fn--26>
20:28	justin_smith	,(map (partial apply (fn[& _]42)) [[][1][1 2][1 2 3]])
20:28	clojurebot	(42 42 42 42)
20:29	justin_smith	aha!
20:29	nutnutnutnut	ohhh
20:29	justin_smith	[&_] is not the same as [& _], my bad
20:29	nutnutnutnut	(fn[& _]:x)) is 12 and (constantly :x) is 15
20:29	nutnutnutnut	ill probably just use constantly for clarity
20:31	justin_smith	makes sense
20:31	nutnutnutnut	ok justin_smith updated version: http://pastebin.com/MPturzBX
20:31	nutnutnutnut	and this one works i triple checked
20:32	nutnutnutnut	oh right i can change mapv to map.. another character
20:32	nutnutnutnut	unless you see something else i think that might be it
20:33	nutnutnutnut	o the reduce thing
20:33	nutnutnutnut	ill try that
20:33	nutnutnutnut	yeah that worked
20:34	nutnutnutnut	justin_smith: version 5 http://pastebin.com/rruNSdsz
20:35	nutnutnutnut	i cant wait to see everyone else's solutions when i submit
20:36	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: neat
20:36	nutnutnutnut	do you see anything else or do you think that about covers it?
20:38	justin_smith	(juggling)
20:41	justin_smith	that vector of numbers....
20:41	nutnutnutnut	what about it?
20:41	justin_smith	((juxt identity #(apply map list %&)) (partition 3 (range 9)))
20:42	nutnutnutnut	what!
20:42	nutnutnutnut	black magic!
20:42	nutnutnutnut	how'd you do that
20:42	justin_smith	that's not quite it
20:42	nutnutnutnut	yeah you're missing diagonals right?
20:42	nutnutnutnut	knew it was too good to be true :p
20:43	justin_smith	,(apply into ((juxt vec #(apply map list %)) (partition 3 (range 9))))
20:43	clojurebot	[(0 1 2) (3 4 5) (6 7 8) (0 3 6) (1 4 7) ...]
20:44	justin_smith	oh yeah, it's missing diagonals...
20:45	justin_smith	any matrix geniuses know a concise way to add the diagonals to that?
20:45	justin_smith	heh
20:45	nutnutnutnut	lol
20:49	justin_smith	,(reduce into ((juxt vec #(apply map list %) (comp list (partial map-indexed #(nth %2 %)))) (partition 3 (range 9))))
20:49	clojurebot	[(0 1 2) (3 4 5) (6 7 8) (0 3 6) (1 4 7) ...]
20:49	justin_smith	missing one of the diagonals
20:50	justin_smith	but it has the other one (in a totally stupi way)
20:50	nutnutnutnut	justin_smith: newer version: http://pastebin.com/M5gt42Yy
20:50	turbofail	could just be #(map nth % [0 1 2])
20:50	justin_smith	turbofail: good point, that could give both diagonals mutatis mutandis
20:51	nutnutnutnut	that's a phrase i've never heard before
20:54	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: if you google it the def. is the top hit
20:54	nutnutnutnut	yeah i read it
20:54	nutnutnutnut	neato
20:54	justin_smith	nutnutnutnut: basically it means "we all know the difference, so changing those parts..."
20:54	justin_smith	heh
20:54	justin_smith	useful when someone is goalpost moving in an argument :)
20:59	turbofail	i wouldn't be surprised if the literal sequence still ends up being shorter
20:59	justin_smith	turbofail: fair
20:59	turbofail	the code is a little nicer to look at though
20:59	turbofail	for some reason
21:00	turbofail	i feel like my brain turns off when i see too much literal data
21:00	neoncontrails	Still having some syntax trouble. The goal is easy peasy: there's a big map, has strings on keys, vals are vectors of lists of keywords. Want hashsets of the keywords. I've written that component.
21:00	justin_smith	some people's brains turn off when they see (juxt comp apply partial comp into)
21:00	turbofail	haha
21:00	turbofail	true
21:01	neoncontrails	Update-in seems like the ideal method for this, but I can't quite figure out how to use it on a map that isn't an atom, and has no special keywords
21:02	rhg135	does that have any practical use?
21:02	justin_smith	,(reduce into #{} ({"a" [[:a :b] [:c :d]]} "a")) ; neoncontrails - like this?
21:02	clojurebot	#{:c :b :d :a}
21:03	justin_smith	neoncontrails: oh, you want it still in a hash-map, but sets instead of vectors of lists?
21:03	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [k (reduce into #{} v)]) {
21:03	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
21:03	neoncontrails	justin_smith: hash-map of strings to hash sets I think, yeah
21:04	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [k (reduce into #{} v)]) {"a" [[1 2 3][4 5 6]] "b" [[1 2][5 6][6 7]]}))
21:04	clojurebot	{"a" #{1 4 6 3 2 ...}, "b" #{7 1 6 2 5}}
21:04	justin_smith	that should do what you want? or close to it
21:05	justin_smith	you don't need update-in, since you know you want to operate on every key
21:07	neoncontrails	justin_smith: very close to it, give me onnne sec this is quite helpful
21:17	neoncontrails	justin_smith: I'm noticing a theme in my errors, it's nesting depth related. Kludging nested sequences over the head with into/reduce/merge/flatten, but not familiar enough to predict the nesting structure of the output
21:17	neoncontrails	Seen any good practice resources? In scheme we had these handy things called box and pointer diagrams that helped me a lot
21:18	neoncontrails	Clojure's not so easily diagrammed though I fear
21:24	turbofail	any approach you'd use to understand that with scheme would also work in clojure
21:59	justin_smith	clojure just has more shapes of boxes
22:12	akabander	Is anyone else having trouble getting to http://clojure.org?
22:13	justin_smith	yup
22:13	kenrestivo	akabander: http://www.isup.me/
22:13	kenrestivo	er, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/clojure.org
22:18	turbofail	huh. i get connection refused from home, but from my brother's server i get 302 found, but it appears to lead to some sort of infinite redirect loop
22:18	akabander	Weird, bummer... Thanks though.
22:40	neoncontrails	What's a good rule of thumb, ballpark figure for the memory footprint of a typical clojure vector?
22:41	neoncontrails	You can assume it doesn't contain any floats or long strings :)
22:44	TimMc	neoncontrails: A vector less than 32 elements would just be an Object[32] with not much else, I think...
22:45	neoncontrails	How many bytes would typically get allocated per cell?
22:46	TimMc	"per call"?
22:46	justin_smith	for a one element vector, enough to hold 64 Object pointers
22:46	justin_smith	cell
22:46	TimMc	64... because of the tail?
22:46	justin_smith	err, 32 64 bit, of course
22:46	TimMc	ok
22:46	justin_smith	with some small overhead for the tail yeah
22:46	TimMc	plus there are ~8 supporting instance fields
22:47	justin_smith	if you actually look at one in the inspector, it's kind of weird
22:47	justin_smith	yeah
22:47	neoncontrails	justin_smith: awesome thank you
22:47	TimMc	neoncontrails: Try allocating a bunch and see what happens. :-)
22:47	justin_smith	neoncontrails: but note that a 31 element vector is exactly the same size
22:48	justin_smith	and then a 32 element one would be big enough to hold 64 objects, etc.
22:49	neoncontrails	TimMc: I'll report back, just trying to make sure my aspirations are within what I pay for on my cloud server heh
23:22	turbofail	nutnutnutnut: here's my version of the whole problem http://sprunge.us/EjHb
23:22	nutnutnutnut	!
23:23	nutnutnutnut	does it work?
23:23	turbofail	yeah
23:24	nutnutnutnut	gives nil when i run it
23:24	turbofail	we're doing this one right? https://www.4clojure.com/problem/73
23:24	nutnutnutnut	yea
23:25	nutnutnutnut	oh wait i got it
23:26	turbofail	you can't use defn in 4clojure i suppose
23:26	turbofail	so it'd just be (fn win? ...)
23:28	turbofail	http://imgur.com/bQyMVRu
23:28	nutnutnutnut	trying to understand it now
23:29	turbofail	the board input already gives you a sequence of rows
23:29	turbofail	(apply map list b) gives you a sequence of columns
23:30	turbofail	and the other two bits are to get the diagonals
23:30	turbofail	then i just look for any row, column, or diagonal that has either all :x or all :o
23:30	nutnutnutnut	clever!
23:31	nutnutnutnut	simple too