#clojure – 2015-12-26

2015-12-26

00:02	ben_vulpes	what would be the expedient way to jam a whole bunch of repeating flags for a list of unknown length into a clojure.java.shell/sh command?
00:03	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: like some kind of interleave of the list and the flags?
00:04	devtrope	(apply sh [the arg s])?
00:04	ben_vulpes	pretty much. repeating (sh "the-call" (repeating "-flag" (item of list)))
00:04	ben_vulpes	hm
09:24	irctc	I have some java classes and I want to use from lein repl how to do it I am not sure how to tell repl about the classpath of the java classes
09:25	justin_smith	you don't
09:25	justin_smith	lein sets up the classpath when it starts the repl
09:26	justin_smith	if the dep is in your project.clj, you are good to go
09:26	irctc	How to include the classpath of my java classes in project.clj
09:27	TimMc	Are they in a jar that is published to the Central Repo or similar?
09:27	justin_smith	usually you would use maven to install the artifact to your local cache
09:27	TimMc	Or a standalone jar o your desktop?
09:27	justin_smith	or point at central
09:27	justin_smith	yeah
09:27	TimMc	Or random classfiles in a folder?
09:27	irctc	random class files in a folder
09:27	TimMc	(in ascending order of "this will suck")
09:28	TimMc	irctc: This is a good place to start: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/sample.project.clj
09:29	irctc	I always have been hearing that you need jar to be published in a cental repo. Do I have any other choice with my only class files
09:30	TimMc	You can use that to point your project at some classfiles, but they'll have to be in a directory structure matching their package names...
09:30	justin_smith	TimMc: did you intend to link to a specific line in the sample project.clj?
09:31	TimMc	nope
09:31	justin_smith	irctc: a jar is a convenient way to bundle class files. You can just add a specific folder to your classpath via project.clj
09:32	TimMc	Hmm... I thought there was a way to add raw classpath entries.
09:32	justin_smith	yes, there is
09:32	justin_smith	TimMc: if nothing else, bot resource-paths and source-paths are just classpath entries
09:33	TimMc	ah, right
09:33	irctc	Now how do I use or refer resource-paths and source-paths
09:33	TimMc	irctc: If this is something you want anyone else to ever use you'll need to get stuff bundled into jars, and probably into a repo.
09:33	justin_smith	irctc: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/sample.project.clj#L281
09:34	TimMc	*a maven repo
09:34	justin_smith	definitely true
09:34	irctc	ok thanks TimMC Justin I will try that
09:46	beaky	hello
09:46	beaky	how do i receive mail with clojure
09:46	beaky	and connect to a database
09:55	TimMc	beaky: You would use a Java IMAP or POP library to talk to a mail server, and you would (probably) use JDBC to talk to the DB.
09:57	TimMc	beaky: This small, crappy program I wrote a while back demonstrates connecting to IMAP: https://github.com/timmc/hashflash
10:23	beaky	wow thanks tim
13:33	TimMc	beaky: That should get you started, but be warned -- that code is written to get one job done, and not well. It's very fragile, and is specific to Google Mail.
13:45	devtrope	I think you can add a .lein-classpath file with additional classpaths on it to escape "everything must maven" in Lein.
13:46	devtrope	I've done that to support plugins that exist only in the project itself.
13:49	devtrope	Evidence: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/054a77af6c24dcf79bffd6348421631599c33a5c/bin/lein-pkg#L58-L62
13:51	devtrope	Not sure how that works in, say, uberjar situations, so perhaps it's a dead end. Works for plugin stuff anyway.
14:31	beaky	hello
15:24	lokien_	Can we write GUI as easy as C# guys?
15:32	j-pb	lokien_: yeah with cljs ;P
15:33	lokien_	j-pb: darn, didn't think of that. I have to finally learn it
15:36	lokien_	Anyway, is there anyone using BSD/Windows for development?
15:37	j-pb	BSD/Windows
15:37	j-pb	bsd as in freebsd?
15:38	lokien_	Yeah
15:39	j-pb	i've seen people use it on it :)
15:39	j-pb	but not myself
15:39	lokien_	I hate working on Windows, so I'm planning to dual boot something (or buying a cheap laptop)
15:42	Seylerius	lokien_: You're not alone in hating Windows.
15:42	j-pb	hey, is there a recommended redis lib out there? I've seen carmine, but that is really off-putting because of all the macros and weird api it has :)
15:43	lokien_	Seylerius: But I hate running things in Wine, so it's a lose-lose for me
15:44	lokien_	j-pb: If I don't use any java functions, is my program cljs compilable?
15:44	j-pb	lokien_: no
15:44	j-pb	generally not
15:45	j-pb	somewhat
15:45	j-pb	but generally not
15:45	j-pb	lokien_: you can reuse 99% of all code, but sometimes abstractions leak through on the jvm and on js
15:46	lokien_	j-pb: it's a 160 line program
15:46	j-pb	core protocols between clojure and cljs are somewhat different, because cljs was rewritten from scratch and has a lot of cool new stuff
15:46	j-pb	lokien_: it might be, however it will have a completely different execution story right
15:46	j-pb	a program is often more than pure buissnes logic
15:47	lokien_	Clojure is obsolete then? :o
15:47	j-pb	no because it runs on the jvm ^^
15:47	j-pb	however you can see the influence cljs has on clojure
15:47	lokien_	I've heard that jvm is an old pile of crap
15:47	j-pb	of that domain logic you can probably reuse 99% minus the few percent that are a result of js and java having different datastructures
15:47	j-pb	for example js has no ints
15:48	j-pb	only a unified number type which is basically a double
15:48	j-pb	lokien_: yes and no. Is it a pile of crap and old yeah
15:48	j-pb	is it the fastes vm around, probably too
15:48	lokien_	And glorious Clojure guarantees no overflows, right? Right?..
15:48	fantazo	jvm is crap. like the whole java story. expendable programmers for the win, that's the story about it.
15:49	lokien_	fantazo: so, you're using arcadia?
15:50	devtrope	Don't confuse corporate java-shop pop-culture with the underlying technology.
15:50	j-pb	lokien_: actually clojure will throw an error I think when an int overflows
15:50	j-pb	but I think that is a java error actually
15:50	j-pb	you need to use bignums explicitly
15:50	fantazo	clojure is basically the try to get a decent programming language with some integration running on that mess so that people who aren't braindead can program in it through the mess of what some "managers" (other word for stupid people) created in the first place.
15:51	j-pb	nah
15:51	j-pb	it's not that bad
15:51	j-pb	a lot of java is horrid, but I don't think you will see clojure in those shops
15:51	lokien_	I wish Clojure was compilable to binary though
15:51	devtrope	Alas, if you want a job these days, it seems like you end up having to support and extend bad decisions people made 10 years ago: and not complain.
15:52	j-pb	cough working clojure full time ;P
15:52	lokien_	Or make a startup in lisp!
15:52	j-pb	lokien_: I don't :D, it's fast enough and binary has it's own problem
15:52	devtrope	There are options, of course. ;)
15:52	lokien_	j-pb: But people are afraid of my jars :(
15:52	fantazo	people will always do bad decisions the point is to make an environment were you fail often and recover from it.
15:53	j-pb	exactly
15:53	devtrope	Somehow java-shop culture and Scrum are made for each other. If you're in that situation, reading blogs about cool Clojure or Haskell will kill you. ;)
15:53	j-pb	which brings me back to: "why is carmine's api so bad?"
15:53	fantazo	I'm totally disillusioned from "just use" lisp bullshit. you get your stuff working with whatever shit you now use.
15:54	lokien_	Good luck writing a game in brainfuck then
15:54	fantazo	and then be haunted by your decisions. this is life, it's supposed to suck.
15:55	fantazo	lokien_, that's a challenge some people could say that they accept that.
15:55	devtrope	j-pb: Fork this one (https://github.com/mmcgrana/clj-redis) and update it? I bet using interop would work just as well.
15:55	lokien_	fantazo, why you so sad, I bet you're smart and beautiful
15:56	j-pb	devtrope: actually considering it
15:56	devtrope	j-pb: I forked quiescent, updated some stuff, removed some deprecated stuff: it was kinda freeing.
15:57	j-pb	devtrope: quiscent is a 200 lib library that consists mostly of function
15:57	j-pb	s/lib/line
15:57	fantazo	lokien_, oh nice of you.
15:57	lokien_	fantazo: <3
15:58	devtrope	j-pb: Right. I wanted to use Sablono with it, which required and update to a newer React, etc, etc.
15:58	devtrope	j-pb: My forks is mainly a hedge against a, uh, quiescent Quiescent. ;)
15:58	j-pb	devtrope: oooooorrrr you could use reagent and live on the happy side of the fence :)
15:59	devtrope	I thought about it.
16:00	j-pb	doit, do it naow
16:00	j-pb	a re-frame style architecture is super awesome
16:01	devtrope	Too late for this app.
16:01	j-pb	it's never too late
16:01	j-pb	I'm currently porting 20000 lines of rather horrid om to reagent
16:01	devtrope	Yeah, single atom, messages update state, view is re-computed: I've done that before Om and in all things after. It is great.
16:02	devtrope	I'm not scared of a port, I just need to do other things, like finish the app.
16:02	j-pb	well, as we discovered you can actually put a reagent atom into an om cursor
16:02	j-pb	so you can rework everything component by component
16:03	devtrope	With Quiescent, you have a single atom at the top, but all components re-render only if their first parameter changes, and that first parameter is a regular value.
16:04	devtrope	I'm not sure it translates well to either Om or Reagent.
16:04	j-pb	yeah I know, I've used it before reagent
16:04	j-pb	as long as it can render react it can render a reagent component
16:04	devtrope	And there's Brutha. ;)
16:06	devtrope	I'll have to dedicate an hour to parse through the witty re-frame doc.
16:07	j-pb	yeah but it's an eye opener
16:08	devtrope	It just describes the basic model I've always used, I think. Even with Om.
16:08	j-pb	the re-frame doc is more like a blog post describing a architecture
18:15	kenrestivo	aha! at last someone figured out the cause of that maddening bug i was wrestling with: http://yogthos.net/posts/2015-12-26-AOTGotchas.html
18:28	justin_smith	if he'd used a shim, instead of :aot, none of this would have happened
22:00	kenrestivo	that's a great idea. hmm...
22:07	kenrestivo	a java shim not a c one
22:07	justin_smith	right, right
22:07	justin_smith	the C thing was a non sequitor actually
22:07	kenrestivo	i like writing c, for some things. embedded microcontrollers, device drivers
22:13	hlolli	hi justin, mery christmas
22:16	hlolli	As shamefully bad amatur in version contorling, git and releasing. I made an experiment on my library, it's at [org.clojars.hlolli/panaeolus "0.2.0-RELEASE"] I bumped into few obvious pitfalls. Which is global user settings, and relative resource paths, in the generated .jar files. But the latter later. Is it possible to have global constants in defproject that can be seen and used by other .clj files under the source file-tree?
22:18	justin_smith	hlolli: project.clj is for lein, and for dev/compilation, not for run time concerns
22:20	hlolli	ok, where should I put user settings regarding audio card sample rate etc?
22:25	justin_smith	have them put an edn file on the classpath, and have your own as a fallback in the jar that you can merge their settings into.
22:25	justin_smith	or perhaps they could specify the location of the edn file in the args
22:26	justin_smith	hlolli: also, you could check out environ, it allows loading settings from the environment or system properties, but I think it has a thing where it can load a settings file too
22:30	hlolli	ok, two new concepts that I will look into. Good, my christmas holidays consist of staring at computer screen, more to learn the better.
22:32	hlolli`	ah fak, lost internet and reconnected
22:32	hlolli`	but I assume I missed on nothing.
22:39	devtrope	hlolli`: I really like the "resources/config.edn" file plan justin_smith mentioned. Easy to slurp and edn/read-string in.
22:39	devtrope	hlolli`: You can even use a prismatic schema to validate it.
22:57	hlolli`	yes, Im actually reading now http://www.compoundtheory.com/clojure-edn-walkthrough/ prismatic schema, noted for study.