#clojure – 2015-09-02

2015-09-02

00:38	ddellacosta	is there a simple way to cleanly include utility functions in project.clj other than simply pasting them in at the top of the file?
00:39	ddellacosta	load-file has problems when used in context with other stuff, unfortunately
00:39	ddellacosta	I would even be happy to use "declare" at the top but that doesn't work
02:13	Empperi	http://blog.getprismatic.com/schema-1-0-released/
02:35	crocket	Why does (swap! server (fn [x & rest])) cause clojure to say "Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context"?
02:35	crocket	I just set the atom to null.
02:35	crocket	I just want to set the atom to null.
02:36	opqdonut	the fn needs a body I guess
02:36	opqdonut	hmm, it seems you can skip the body
02:36	crocket	It doesn't need a body.
02:36	opqdonut	btw, why not (reset! server nil)
02:36	crocket	ouch
02:37	opqdonut	anyway, that snippet works for me, are you sure you don't have a non-breaking space in there or something like that
02:37	crocket	I use clojure 1.7
02:37	opqdonut	oh right
02:38	opqdonut	I was actually on 1.5 just now
02:38	crocket	What did rich hickey do?
02:38	crocket	Now, it's doing something that I don't understand.
02:38	crocket	(swap! server (fn [x & rest])) doesn't compile
02:50	Empperi	you're missing function body
02:50	Empperi	(swap! server (fn [x & rest] nil))
02:50	Empperi	will compile
03:17	crocket	Empperi, It seems that if I (swap! server (fn [x & rest] nil)) in a when-let form, clojure says "Unable to resolve symbol: x"
03:17	crocket	If I put (swap! server (fn [x & rest] nil)) in a when-let form, clojure says "Unable to resolve symbol: x"
03:21	TEttinger	crocket: I'm guessing somewhere a paren isn't lined up
03:21	Empperi	yeah
03:21	Empperi	got to be that
03:22	TEttinger	also, (constantly nil)
03:22	TEttinger	,(swap! (atom 0) (constantly nil))
03:23	clojurebot	nil
03:23	TEttinger	or just
03:23	TEttinger	,(reset! (atom 0) nil)
03:23	clojurebot	nil
03:26	crocket	TEttinger, impossible
03:26	TEttinger	,(swap! (atom 0) (fn [x & rest] nil))
03:26	clojurebot	nil
03:26	crocket	Now, put that in a when-let form.
03:26	TEttinger	(doc when-let)
03:26	clojurebot	"([bindings & body]); bindings => binding-form test When test is true, evaluates body with binding-form bound to the value of test"
03:27	crocket	,(when-let [ohayo true] (swap! (atom 0) (fn [x & rest] nil)))
03:27	clojurebot	nil
03:27	TEttinger	,(when-let [server (atom 0)] (swap! server (fn [x & rest] nil)))
03:27	clojurebot	nil
03:27	crocket	weird
03:27	crocket	,(version)
03:27	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: version in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: version in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6704]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: version i...
03:27	TEttinger	something got screwed up in your REPL I imagine
03:28	TEttinger	,clojure-version
03:28	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 8, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha3"}
03:28	TEttinger	&clojure-version
03:28	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha1"}
03:28	TEttinger	&(when-let [server (atom 0)] (swap! server (fn [x & rest] nil)))
03:28	lazybot	⇒ nil
03:28	TEttinger	in 1.7 and 1.8 alpha3, it is the same behavior. it is not a clojure bug
03:28	crocket	TEttinger, The problematic code is http://dpaste.com/3F22TJ7
03:29	TEttinger	ha
03:29	TEttinger	you used fn for the name
03:29	luma	you're overwriting fn
03:29	crocket	Hell
03:29	luma	so your (fn [x & rest]) isn't a function
03:29	luma	it's not the fn macro
03:29	crocket	Now, it compiles.
03:29	crocket	How did I not catch it?
03:30	TEttinger	why did you use fn for a name in the first place?
03:30	crocket	I was trying to write it fast.
03:30	TEttinger	well that's a mistake that you won't make again, I bet :)
03:30	crocket	I thought @server evaluated to a function before.
03:31	TEttinger	it might
03:32	TEttinger	but the binding is a name, so you would have a local (with the value of whatever @server is) called fn, and since it can't be a macro, anything that passes it [x & rest] will evaluate x
03:32	crocket	ok
03:33	crocket	I didn't think twice about the name.
03:33	TEttinger	I feel like eastwood might catch that automatically
03:34	TEttinger	seems like something a linter might catch quickly
03:34	TEttinger	(especially if you have a much more complicated function that #clojure can't make sense of easily but a linter might)
04:58	neoncontrails	Any former Schemers here? Is alter just set!, or is it different somehow?
04:58	neoncontrails	The 'transaction' component throws me off a little bit.
05:01	amalloy	it is super different
05:01	neoncontrails	I had a hunch.
05:02	amalloy	you can't just set! any old thing. most values and bindings are immutable
05:02	amalloy	instead of figuring out alter, try figuring out swap!, which is much more common and also simpler
05:02	neoncontrails	Are we talking Scheme or Clojure? You must mean Clojure.
05:03	amalloy	of course
05:04	neoncontrails	Interesting. Let me see if I'm putting the pieces together correctly...
05:05	neoncontrails	In Scheme, mutation is accomplished either by changing the atomic value (if the variable is an atomic type) or else by changing the evaluation environment
05:05	neoncontrails	In Clojure, mutation is... kind of a switcheroo, followed by garbage collection?
05:06	amalloy	mutation is mostly not done
05:06	amalloy	but in the particular case of objects which exist for the purpose of being mutable cells pointing to other immutable data, such as (atom 0)
05:07	amalloy	then we have functions that let you compute the new value for the mutable cell to point to, based on the old value
05:07	neoncontrails	oh wow. I'm going to need a second to process this
05:10	neoncontrails	I think this is starting to explain some things I was obliquely confused about last week
05:14	neoncontrails	So if I'm understanding you right, atoms can't arbitrarily be made to point at an anonymous function (a self-incrementing counter, for instance) because....
05:15	neoncontrails	The main difference with Scheme being the result of applying functions to objects are computed in an even lazier fashion?
05:15	amalloy	no, i think everything you just said is false
05:15	amalloy	well
05:16	amalloy	some confusion may arise from your use of the word "atom", which means different things in scheme and clojure
05:16	neoncontrails	i'm definitely wording it quite badly, in either case
05:16	neoncontrails	Huh. What's the difference?
05:16	neoncontrails	Scheme defines it as not a list
05:17	amalloy	yeah, well clojure has more than one data structure so that is not a very useful definition
05:17	neoncontrails	which clearly isn't expressive enough for a Clojure definition
05:17	neoncontrails	Haha, yes
05:17	amalloy	clojure doesn't really have a synonym for the scheme concept of atom. there's just "values"
05:17	amalloy	instead, an atom is
05:17	amalloy	,(doc atom)
05:17	clojurebot	"([x] [x & options]); Creates and returns an Atom with an initial value of x and zero or more options (in any order): :meta metadata-map :validator validate-fn If metadata-map is supplied, it will become the metadata on the atom. validate-fn must be nil or a side-effect-free fn of one argument, which will be passed the intended new state on any state change. If the new state is unacceptable, the v...
05:18	amalloy	a box that holds a single pointer to some value, and can be made to change that pointer to some other value
05:19	neoncontrails	I see. So it's not in any sense structurally a pair
05:19	amalloy	,(let [x 1, a (atom x)] (do (swap! a + 5) {:x x, :a @a}))
05:19	neoncontrails	it's just a name with a pointer
05:19	clojurebot	{:x 1, :a 6}
05:19	amalloy	not even a name
05:19	amalloy	it is just a value, like the number 1
05:20	amalloy	in my example here, in that particular lexical environment a is bound to an atom, but that's in the environment: the atom itself has no name
05:20	amalloy	,(swap! (atom 5) + 10)
05:20	clojurebot	15
05:21	neoncontrails	So an atom with a name is not an atom then? But an 'object'?
05:21	neoncontrails	(what's more correct than object in this context?(
05:21	amalloy	object is fine
05:22	neoncontrails	Closure?
05:22	amalloy	but there is no such thing as an atom with a name. there are objects, including as one special case atoms. and there are names for things, in a lexical environment or the global environment
05:23	amalloy	neoncontrails: what is the name of the list (1 5 8)?
05:23	neoncontrails	I don't suppose that it has one, does it?
05:23	amalloy	it doesn't have one, of course. you might choose, in some context, to create a name for the purpose of referring to it, but the list itself doesn't have a name as some internal property
05:24	amalloy	this is a fundamental concept of how variables work in clojure, and it's the same as how they work in scheme so i don't understand what you are confused about
05:25	amalloy	there are values, which don't have names, and then there are lexically-scoped names that refer to those values
05:26	neoncontrails	I'm just trying to get a feel for the similarities and differences, because there's lots of both
05:27	neoncontrails	In Scheme atoms are concretely implemented as pairs, in which case a variable and its name share the same scope I think
05:27	neoncontrails	Small difference, but it seems like a difference
05:27	amalloy	no, in scheme an atom is literally something that is not a pair
05:28	amalloy	variables and names are roughly the same thing, but that's very different from a value. (let ((x 1)) ...), 1 is a value, x is a variable/name
05:29	neoncontrails	Hmmm... you could be right
05:30	amalloy	you can't talk about a name, or a variable, divorced fom the scope/context in which it's valid. but the number 1 is always going to be 1, whether i call it x or n
05:30	neoncontrails	My university really brow-beat us on the fact that everything that Scheme is ultimately represented as a pair, which in the case of atoms were just a name and a value
05:31	amalloy	wellllllll, in a particular scheme implementation that may be how the interpreter implements the concept of an environment
05:31	neoncontrails	Because in Scheme it's appropriate to call an x defined by (define x 3) an atom
05:32	amalloy	but from the point of view of someone using the language, not implementing it, it's certainly not the case that everything is a pair
05:32	neoncontrails	that's a good point. We used a very particular dialect optimized for object-oriented pedagogy
05:33	neoncontrails	yes that's true
05:34	neoncontrails	At a high level, how would you summarize the differences between Scheme and Clojure?
05:34	amalloy	uh
05:35	neoncontrails	I mean, differences of JVM and datastructures aside
05:35	amalloy	decline to state
05:35	neoncontrails	There's probably a philosophical difference in there somewhere
05:35	amalloy	a lot of them
05:36	amalloy	try watching one of rich's introductory videos, like simple made easy, or clojure for lisp programmers
05:36	neoncontrails	I might do that. I've seen him speak before and it left a huge impression on me before I had any idea what he was talking about
05:37	neoncontrails	I should revisit them now that I'm a little more experienced
05:40	spacepluk	is anybody familiar with storm? why isn't it possible to pass a predicate as a parameter to a bolt but it does work in the body?
05:48	neoncontrails	Not familiar with storm, but I'm looking at the sourcecode for shits and giggles. Holy macros. Quite nice
05:49	spacepluk	:)
05:49	neoncontrails	Does that behavior not follow from the defmacro for bolt?
05:50	neoncontrails	It just seems like the way that function is defined, you'd be applying a predicate to a predicate
05:50	spacepluk	I have no idea my knowledge of both storm and clojure is still superficial :?
05:51	spacepluk	I have this "problem" with defbolt though
05:53	spacepluk	the (if (:prepare opt) part
05:54	spacepluk	no sorry the (if params ...
05:55	spacepluk	when you define a bolt with params it returns a function that you can call to create a configurable bolt
05:56	spacepluk	I'd like to define map/reduce/filter bolts but it doesn't seem to be possible
05:56	neoncontrails	ooh I see. Yeah this macro syntax is above my head, I see what you mean though
05:56	spacepluk	I've skimmed through it but I'm not ready hehe
05:59	neoncontrails	What if you use a for loop instead of applying a map?
05:59	neoncontrails	*what happens if, rather
05:59	spacepluk	yeah, I just implemented specialized bolts
06:00	spacepluk	but I wanted the bolts to be sort of composable with the core logic functions
06:02	spacepluk	then it's a lot easier to chage the computations at topology level
06:06	neoncontrails	try this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7314413/is-there-standard-foreach-function-in-clojure
06:07	neoncontrails	If I'm not mistaken, mapping over objects in a functional context really only makes sense insofar as you're trying to get the side effects
06:08	neoncontrails	if it's the attribute values you want, then you need to use a forEach-like construct
06:09	spacepluk	now I'm lost hehehe
06:11	spacepluk	in storm a bolt is like a function/computation that gets applied to stream tuples that pass through it
06:12	spacepluk	then you can emit new/more/less tuples (or nothing) depending on what you're trying to do and that can get piped to other bolts
06:12	spacepluk	so it's like operating on lists but distributed
06:13	spacepluk	that's why I thought it could be useful to have map/reduce/filter bolts I think it fits
06:13	spacepluk	am I getting it all wrong?
06:15	neoncontrails	No I think you can still do what you're trying to do, but it's just a slightly different syntax
06:17	spacepluk	ok, so I don't get what I should do with foreach
06:17	spacepluk	I mean doseq
06:17	skeuomorf	erm, what do you folks use as a CSPRNG?
06:18	TEttinger	concurrent secure pseudo RNG?
06:18	skeuomorf	Cryptographically secure pseudo random number generator
06:18	TEttinger	"not mersenne twister"
06:19	gilliard	java.security.SecureRandom ?
06:19	skeuomorf	heh
06:19	TEttinger	I'd be curious how Secure SecureRandom is
06:19	skeuomorf	gilliard: So, there isn't a native clojure thingy? I suspected so
06:20	spacepluk	skeuomorf: maybe /dev/random if you don't need cross-platformness :P
06:20	gilliard	I guess there's probably a wrapper lib somewhere? https://github.com/weavejester/crypto-random/blob/master/src/crypto/random.clj
06:20	TEttinger	it's not at all hard to implement the few random functions clojure has using SecureRandom
06:20	TEttinger	shuffle, rand-nth, rand-int, rand, what else?
06:20	neoncontrails	spacepluk: wish I could answer your question, I'm hesitant to answer it for fear of leading you astray :P
06:20	neoncontrails	I did have a similar problem in Scheme once
06:21	skeuomorf	TEttinger: Well, I gave a quick look on the impl of SecureRandom just now, code is horrible, it calls sth called getProviders, and this sometimes falls back to something that starts with SHA1, I am horrified, will investigate later
06:21	spacepluk	neoncontrails: I appreciate any ideas you can throw at me :)
06:21	skeuomorf	spacepluk: Please don't use /dev/random, use /dev/urandom
06:21	neoncontrails	So you can think of map as basically acting on objects. Right?
06:21	spacepluk	skeuomorf: I was just checking the manual I never remember which one is the good one
06:21	skeuomorf	spacepluk: re: http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2014/02/25/safely-generate-random-numbers/ and http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/
06:22	gilliard	TEttinger: I'd like to understand it better, too. SecureRandom's javadoc has citations.
06:22	skeuomorf	spacepluk: The manual is a LIE!
06:22	spacepluk	skeuomorf: really? wtf!
06:22	neoncontrails	You can map a typecasting operation to objects, for instance.
06:22	skeuomorf	spacepluk: Exactly!
06:22	spacepluk	skeuomorf: I'll read those, thanks for the tip
06:22	skeuomorf	np
06:23	neoncontrails	But contrast that to what other languages (not Clojure apparently) call forEach(), which basically means you can control what the object does
06:23	skeuomorf	After I sleep and wake up, I will take a look at SecureRandom and assuming it's legit, I will use that
06:23	skeuomorf	ideally, it'd use /dev/urandom on *nix and CryptGenRandom() on the horrible crap that's windows
06:23	neoncontrails	so you can have it return values, and in the context of the forEach-like loop, apply your predicate
06:24	skeuomorf	I never have high hopes regarding Java crypto
06:24	spacepluk	neoncontrails: hmm, I see I'll explore that
06:24	skeuomorf	Last time I looked at the Android source code -a couple of months ago-, they defaulted AES to ECB mode
06:25	neoncontrails	and I think in most functional languages (i.e. not Python) you actually need the latter pattern to retrieve variables from the object since its namespace is private
06:25	roelof	Hello, Im doing the labrepl course and im stuck
06:26	roelof	I have made a file called student.clj with as namespace (ns student.dialect) and put it into the src directory
06:27	roelof	but as soon as I open repl in the head directory and enters (use 'student.dialect) I see this error message : CompilerException java.lang.Exception: namespace 'student.dialect' not found, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:26:1)
06:27	oddcully	spacepluk: Urandom as in the gUd random
06:27	roelof	I thought that because it's in the src dir it gets found automatical
06:27	spacepluk	oddcully: hahaha that's good :D
06:31	oddcully	roelof: in src/student/dialect.clj right?
06:31	oddcully	roelof: your binding ::0 problem fixed? what was it?
06:32	roelof	oddcully: wrong port I was using port 8000 where labrepl was using 8080
06:32	spacepluk	neoncontrails: I'm not sure if I can do that in storm because it has the control of the stream and the calls to the bolts bodies
06:32	roelof	next time I will do this not just before I goto sleep
06:32	spacepluk	neoncontrails: also the bolts might be running in a different process/machine
06:33	roelof	oddcully: yep, the file is in src/student/dialect.clj
06:35	roelof	wierd, my cloud box rebooted and now everything is working well
06:37	neoncontrails	spacepluk: I'm excited for you to dig into continuation-passing style :D because it absolutely does not seem like it should work
06:37	neoncontrails	for all of those reasons you mentioned
06:37	neoncontrails	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation-passing_style
06:38	neoncontrails	This is the basic mechanism of the forEach loop
06:39	roelof	maybe a stupid question replace sentence #"\.$" " does replace the . with a space ?
06:40	neoncontrails	I'm trying to think of a simple way to explain CPS without oversimplifying it
06:41	neoncontrails	When mapping operations to objects, you're basically just going down the line and whacking each one with your metaphorical hammer
06:41	TEttinger	roelof: that doesn't look like a valid... regex on its own
06:42	oddcully	,(clojure.string/replace "Hello! World!" #"!$" "?")
06:42	clojurebot	"Hello! World?"
06:42	oddcully	roelof: it replaces the last `.` in sentence with the part that you omited
06:42	TEttinger	,(clojure.string/replace "thanks, oddcully." #"\.$" "...")
06:42	clojurebot	"thanks, oddcully..."
06:43	roelof	oke, then I understood that part wel. The assignment is now making a pig-latinaze
06:48	neoncontrails	Oh, forgot to finish that thought. When using a continuation-passing style, you're literally giving the object itself as an argument
06:48	neoncontrails	So it can use its own methods
06:49	neoncontrails	And side-effects can occur on whatever schedule those side-effects decide to happen
06:52	neoncontrails	In the context of your question, at a high level you're basically just going to have the bolts perform a predicate test on themselves, then do something if it's true
06:52	neoncontrails	(if I'm understanding your problem)
06:54	spacepluk	I want to apply the predicate on the tuples that pass through the bolts and emit new tuples (or not) based on the result of the predicate
06:54	spacepluk	so do something would be my predicate I guess
06:55	spacepluk	and the different map/reduce/filter bolts would have different tuple emitting behaviors
06:55	spacepluk	or that's the idea at least
06:56	spacepluk	I think that the problem is more about storm than clojure, but most people seem to be using java with storm :/
06:56	spacepluk	it's hard to get help
06:58	spacepluk	I think I see where you're going though
07:27	roelof	Is there a good book for a beginner to learn clojure. I like to many exercises so I can get a good hang of things ?
07:30	spacepluk	roelof: there's a good list here -> http://clojure.org/getting_started
07:30	Kneiva	roelof: Not a book but a lot of exercises: http://www.4clojure.com/
07:36	roelof	spacepluk: I will look in the list if there is a good book for me
07:37	spacepluk	I've read "clojure for the brave" and "joy of clojure" and I think they're good but I guess that's very subjective
07:38	spacepluk	I'm still going through the exercises in 4clojure I'm learning a lot and it's fun :)
07:38	tsdh	When a deftype has a field x-y, then you can access it either with (.x-y foo) or (.x_y foo). CIDER autocompletes the latter because the class of the deftype has an x_y field. Is there any reason to prefer one over the other?
07:39	roelof	oke, I tried to learn from labrepl but it seems that a lot of info is not be told. For example how to get the first letter of a word or how to check if that letter is a vowel or not
07:41	spacepluk	if it's anything like 4clojure I think you're supposed to check the api docs for that
07:41	spacepluk	doing simple tests in the repl helps too
07:42	spacepluk	roelof: like (first "asdf")
07:44	spacepluk	roelof: or (re-matches #"[AEIOUaeiou] (first "asdf"))
07:46	roelof	spacepluk: thanks, I have to write a pig-latin function
07:46	roelof	I think I have a idea how I can do that
07:47	spacepluk	np :)
07:48	roelof	I think I can also use a few suggestions from this page : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/686375/why-does-def-vowel-set-aeiou-work
07:51	spacepluk	using the set is probably faster than the regex
07:52	roelof	with set you mean this part : (def vowel? (set "aeiou"))
07:53	roelof	sorry for much questioins but im a super beginner in clojure
07:53	spacepluk	yes, a set is a data structure but you can use it as a function
07:55	roelof	oke, thanks
07:56	spacepluk	roelof: for example ((set "aeiou" \a)) returns \a because it's in the set
07:57	spacepluk	sorry ((set "aeiou") \a)
07:57	spacepluk	if the argument is not in the set it returns nil
07:58	spacepluk	https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/set
07:58	roelof	oke, so then if I have for example the word aap then I can get the first letter with (first "aap") but then I do not have the / before it
08:00	spacepluk	yes you do, it returns a char
08:00	roelof	so I cannot do ((set "aeiou") (first "aap")) ??
08:00	lazybot	roelof: Definitely not.
08:01	spacepluk	I think that should work
08:01	oddcully	roelof: do you have leiningen installed?
08:02	roelof	yes, I have
08:02	oddcully	roelof: then do `lein repl` and try it out
08:02	spacepluk	yup
08:02	Rurik	or better
08:02	noncom	,((set "aeiou") (first "aap"))
08:02	clojurebot	\a
08:03	spacepluk	and \a is truthy
08:05	roelof	thanks all, I will try things out and hopefully get a hang of things
08:09	noncom	tsdh: probably because "-" is not allowed for java variables (fields) names
08:10	noncom	tsdh: therefore, the process known as "munging" and its counterpart, "unmunging" are applied to names to make them valid java or clojure names
08:11	tsdh	noncom: Yes, I know. My question is rather if it is ok to use the munged, underscored name from within Clojure because that's conveniently suggested by CIDER.
08:12	tsdh	noncom: Or if the existence of x_y is just an implementation detail I should not rely on.
08:13	spacepluk	I think using the munged names doesn't make sense in the language
08:14	spacepluk	I would use the names as they are defined
08:14	spacepluk	in clojure
08:14	noncom	tsdh: well, it is an implementation detail... but the one that clojure tries to get away from java in. so, valid clojure would certainly be "-". IDK, i guess there cannot be a definite answer. you could 1) make a request for CIDER to manage the autocomplete for "-" names. 2) stick with "_" and just know that it is a sign of a java field..
08:14	noncom	spacepluk: yeah, that's closer to me too
08:15	spacepluk	also using _ might break if you want to port your code to clojure-clr or clojurescript
08:15	noncom	good point
08:16	noncom	so, the result would be: ask cider to work with "-" ?
08:16	tsdh	noncom: I guess there's nothing CIDER can do because how should it know that a class has been generated for a deftype?
08:17	spacepluk	maybe just replacing _ with - is good enough for real idiomatic code
08:17	noncom	well... firstly i guess it can inherit something unique for a deftype, and secondly - maybe just ... ah, spacepluk already said that :)
08:17	spacepluk	:)
08:17	tsdh	spacepluk: And how would I then access Integer/MAX_VALUE?
08:18	spacepluk	you'd need to type that
08:18	kandinski	just a quick question: why don't 'alter' and 'ref-set' have the bang like 'swap!' and 'reset!"?
08:18	spacepluk	I said "good enough" hehehe
08:18	tsdh	spacepluk: So you say that CIDER's autocomple should suggest the Integer/MAX-VALUE which is incorrect? That would inverse the problem.
08:19	kandinski	they too change the state of their respective ref, just like reset! and swap! does with an atom
08:19	spacepluk	yes, which one is worse?
08:19	kandinski	so why didn't they get the bang?
08:19	spacepluk	something like noncom sugests would be better, that's just a quick hack
08:19	tsdh	spacepluk: Your suggestion is worse. :-)
08:19	spacepluk	hehehe ok
08:19	spacepluk	weird
08:20	noncom	tsdh: here: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core_deftype.clj#L396
08:20	spacepluk	nice
08:20	spacepluk	so replace only for ITypes sounds good, it might still break if somebody actually uses _
08:21	noncom	but that could be made a on-off thing so you can turn it off when needed
08:21	tsdh	noncom: Ah, that's good!
08:24	noncom	kandinski: a good question
08:24	kandinski	noncom: thanks, but does it have an answer? :)
08:25	noncom	kandinski: https://scott.mn/2014/02/09/playing_with_refs/ do ctrl+f "bang"
08:25	kandinski	noncom: thanks a lot
08:26	kandinski	noncom: awesome!
08:26	noncom	:D
08:27	kandinski	thanks a lot, I was definitely thinking in a scheme way
08:27	spacepluk	tsdh: noncom: maybe it's worth taking a look at how the munging is implemented, you might find a complete solution
08:27	noncom	so, yeah, some fundamental stuff there. good to know
08:27	kandinski	noncom: is that your weblog?
08:28	noncom	kandinski: nope! i just googled "alter ref-set no bang" and that was the first or second find iirc :)
08:29	kandinski	shame on me. I did google "atoms vs refs" but got nowhere.
08:29	kandinski	cheers, and thanks again
08:31	noncom	kandinski: np :) this place is for chatting, so that's what we're doing :D
08:35	spacepluk	tsdh: I don't get any munged names with fireplace on vim
08:36	spacepluk	and it's using cider afaik
08:36	noncom	spacepluk: it shows "-" ?
08:37	spacepluk	yup
08:37	noncom	interesting. at this point i'm a bit sad that i'm not on vim or emacs...
08:38	spacepluk	it's never too late :D
08:40	noncom	spacepluk: haha. well, i tried some emacs.. actually i find myself pretty comfortable with it and i use it for editing some other lisp, not clojure. other lisps rarely have a support in good ides...
08:40	noncom	spacepluk: you're on vim? can you recommend a good setup for it? i mean, plugins and stuff.. maybe there's a ready-to-use distribution? i'd like to try it out too.
08:41	spacepluk	noncom: this one is very popular http://vim.spf13.com/
08:41	spacepluk	I'm actually on neovim now but it's pretty much the same :)
08:42	spacepluk	there's also spacemacs that might be easier if you already know emacs
08:42	noncom	spacepluk: does spf13 have everything for clojure?
08:42	spacepluk	I don't think so
08:43	noncom	spacepluk: ok
08:43	noncom	spacepluk: is neovim better than just vim?
08:44	spacepluk	this are my clojure plugins https://gist.github.com/spacepluk/e1dfef7af7bf1a08e209
08:44	spacepluk	it's better for async stuff that is the worst part of vim
08:44	spacepluk	you can even open a terminal in a buffer now which is pretty cool
08:44	ceruleancity	can anyone help me with clojure.tools.cli? I'm trying to accept a file path as a cmd line param and having issues. it seems my :validate function is always receiving a boolean as input
08:44	spacepluk	and script shit on it
08:44	noncom	eh, i see the list of differences, i guess i won't be able to appreciate them since i never suffered the issues they resolve. but terminal and multithreading sounds really good. does bare vim really miss htat?
08:45	spacepluk	there are workarounds but they suck hehe
08:46	spacepluk	noncom: I'd like to try this some day https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/
08:46	spacepluk	I'm just too lazy to change my setup now that it works so well hehehe
08:49	noncom	oh spacemacs...
08:49	noncom	look sinteresting
08:51	spacepluk	yes, it sounds like a nice middle ground
09:52	troydm	is it possible to use core.logic via http://www.tryclj.com/ ?
10:03	wombawomba	I want to launch an external (unix) process asynchronously, and stream the output to stdout. What libraries should I use, and how?
10:07	troydm	wombawomba: https://gist.github.com/codification/1984857
10:11	galaux	Hi!
10:12	galaux	In a clojure/lein project, I hit this bug: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-843
10:13	galaux	(System/loadLibrary uses the current classloader – Clojure's – instead of the parent's)
10:13	galaux	But … it still does not work in clojure 1.6. Only on 1.7
10:14	galaux	which seems very strange to me
10:14	wombawomba	troydm: for that example, I would like to read from the :out stream line by line. Any idea how I would accomplish that?
10:17	Pupeno	According to https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj, `:bootclasspath true` will place the agent jar on the bootstrap classpath, but this doesn’t seem to be happening and I’m not sure how to debug it. Where should this jar be present?
10:23	wombawomba	troydm: nvm, got it; thanks
10:52	ceridwen	Is this the right place for a question about an algorithm in Clojure's implementation? I'm trying to figure out why some design choices were made in the zipper implementation.
10:53	dstockton	ceridwen: yes
10:57	ceridwen	I'm a Clojure novice, so if I'm wrong on my interpretation of the code, please correct me. Two starter questions: in Huet's paper, the type of a path is (in Ocaml) Top \| Node of tree list * path * tree list;; . In Clojure, there are two additional fields, pnodes and changed? . What's the function of these fields? Am I right in believing that l and r correspond to the first and third entries in Huet's type, and that ppath is the second?
11:00	ceridwen	Second, I notice that on https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/zip.clj#L132 , there doesn't seem to be a reverse for l in the concatenation. In Huet's paper, it's
11:00	ceridwen	let go_up (Loc(t,p)) = match p with
11:00	ceridwen	Top -> failwith "up of top"
11:00	ceridwen	\| Node(left,up,right) -> Loc(Section((rev left) @ (t::right)),up);;
11:02	ceridwen	For comparison, someone wrote up a zipper implementation in Clojure using deftype that does reverse the left entry: https://github.com/akhudek/fast-zip/blob/master/src/cljx/fast_zip/core.cljx#L134
11:07	Bronsa	ceridwen: there's no reverse because l is a vector rather than a sequence
11:07	roelof	how can I make these warnings away : ARNING: record? already refers to: #'clojure.core/record? in namespace: midje.parsing.0-to-fact-form.formulas, being replaced by: #'midje.clojure.core/record?
11:10	ceridwen	I was suspicious of that, but how does changing from a sequence (or list in the Ocaml context) to a vector make the difference?
11:16	roelof	no midje expert here ?
11:23	justin_smith	roelof: you can make that warning go away by using a version of clojure old enough so "record?" is not defined in clojure.core, or a version of midje new enough that it doesn't shadow record? with its own function of the same name.
11:23	justin_smith	roelof: said "version of midje new enough" may or may not actually exist in our reality
11:24	roelof	oke, and which version must I take then 1.6.x ?
11:24	justin_smith	not sure...
11:24	justin_smith	(-> #'record? meta :added)
11:24	justin_smith	,(-> #'record? meta :added)
11:24	clojurebot	"1.6"
11:25	justin_smith	so older than 1.6
11:25	justin_smith	the thing is though, the warning is just a warning - the midje authors defined that function not expecting clojure.core/record? to exist
11:26	justin_smith	the idea with the warning is if you accidentally do (def count 10) and then all usage of clojure.core/count are going to be weirdly broken
11:26	justin_smith	but if you were never intending to use the clojure.core version of the function, then you are fine
11:27	roelof	midje is updated a long time ago , I see the last relaase on 10 nov 2011
11:32	roelof	I think I use a too old version. I use lein-midje 1.3.1
11:33	justin_smith	https://clojars.org/lein-midje yeah looks like you could update to 3.2-RC4
11:34	justin_smith	I bet recent versions have eliminated that warning
11:34	roelof	justin_smith: I wil try that
11:37	roelof	justin_smith: nope, the error messages stays
11:38	justin_smith	worthy of an issue on the repo, I'd say
11:39	justin_smith	they can fix it with (:refer-clojure :exclude [record?]) in the offending namespace(s)
11:42	roelof	justin_smith: oke, so adding that piece to this (ns training-day) schould do the trick ?
11:43	justin_smith	roelof: it needs to be done in the ns which has the warning "record? already refers to: #'clojure.core/record? in namespace: midje.parsing.0-to-fact-form.formulas
11:43	justin_smith	"
11:43	justin_smith	so they need to fix midje.parsing.0-to-fact-form.formulas
11:44	roelof	oke, then I have to look where that can be found ? I only have a training namespace
11:44	justin_smith	roelof: this is in the midje code, which is why I suggested posting it as a bug to the midje project
11:45	roelof	I did make a remark on the lein midje page. This is the same contribor as midje has
11:45	roelof	justin_smith: but thanks for the help and the explanation
11:45	justin_smith	np
11:52	roelof	justin_smith: made also a report on midje: https://github.com/marick/Midje/issues/324
11:53	justin_smith	roelof: was 2.3-rc4 a typo? their latest is 3.2-RC4
12:02	roelof	yes, I m going to change that
12:02	andyf_	ceridwen: In answer to question you asked a while ago, in Clojure, doing ‘conj’ onto a vector adds new elements at the end, not the beginning. Doing ‘conj’ onto other kinds of sequences, e.g. lists, adds new elements at the beginning.
12:03	justin_smith	andyf_: or ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ##(conj #{:a "a" 'a} \a)
12:03	lazybot	⇒ #{\a a "a" :a}
12:04	andyf_	justin_smith: I don’t consider a set a kind of sequence.
12:05	justin_smith	fair enough
12:06	justin_smith	andyf_: funny that I randomly picked an example that would add in the "front" though
12:10	roelof	a question for the future. Is it 'easy' to make a web app with clojure ?
12:12	hfaafb	it's certainly simpler!
12:12	justin_smith	the fact that you can use clojure on the backend and clojurescript on the frontend is definitely handy
12:13	justin_smith	I can't honestly answer the question because I haven't built webapps with other languages
12:18	roelof	oke, before dinner what do you use for web development, justin_smith
12:19	justin_smith	roelof: ring, figwheel, reagent, sente, kafka, onyx are the big pieces
12:24	neoncontrails	justin_smith: interesting. Clojure and Clojurescript run on totally different VMs though, don't they?
12:24	neoncontrails	How does that work in practice?
12:25	justin_smith	neoncontrails: I use cljc for code that the two sides should share
12:25	justin_smith	then I use sente to send vanilla clojure data structures between the two ends
12:26	zerokarmaleft	,(inc justin_smith)
12:26	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6704]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol:...
12:26	justin_smith	one nice thing with websockets, is either end can push data to the other at any time, you're not limited to the classic request/response cycle
12:26	zerokarmaleft	for not saying isomorphic
12:26	neoncontrails	interesting. So in a sense, they don't really communicate... they just share assets. Is that right?
12:26	pseudonymous	Clojure on the front- and backend.. Sounds like the promise made by the JS devs, just with a decent language this time ^^
12:26	justin_smith	neoncontrails: no shared assets - I push data between the two
12:26	justin_smith	that's not the same as a shared asset
12:27	neoncontrails	I see. My misunderstanding
12:27	justin_smith	pseudonymous: it is working out like a dream - especially with the help of cljc and sente
12:28	justin_smith	neoncontrails: in practice, I send tuples - the first half is treated as a "routing" that decides how it gets handled, the second part is the data provided to that handler
12:28	justin_smith	and usually, part of the data sent is another routing to send the response(s) to if any
12:30	justin_smith	neoncontrails: the really fun part is that we added a distributed cluster (using onyx) to the backend, which means that I provide not only a route to send a reply to, but a whole itenerary describing a series of hops to make between the backend server and the compute cluster before sending the result back to the frontend
12:30	neoncontrails	Oh, cool. Sounds like a register machine. Is it basically that?
12:30	justin_smith	brb
12:34	neoncontrails	I'd love to understand how that gets implemented in practice. The nuts and bolts of it
12:36	neoncontrails	I've noticed I'm easily overwhelmed by web development stacks, even ones I might understand okay at a conceptual level. Very difficult to think about so many layers all at once
12:38	pseudonymous	neoncontrails: What Justin's doing sounds pretty complex. But I think the confusion is generally good argument against end-to-end solutions in general. Sure, frameworks work great, right until their design tradeoffs and your needs diverge and then you're in hell. Seems like both the Clojure and Go communities have learnt from that by arguing in favour of small to-the-point libraries which you compos
12:38	pseudonymous	e yourself.
12:39	pseudonymous	(Apologies for the novel)
12:40	neoncontrails	Yeah, I hear that. How eerie, I've had the very same thoughts before
12:42	neoncontrails	pseudonymous: What's a good starter library in Clojure/CS? Something lightweight to get one's feet wet
12:43	justin_smith	neoncontrails: I'd start with figwheel - it's an awesome dev tool that makes cljs dev really slick. And then use one of the react wrappers for controlling the frontend DOM (om or reagent)
12:44	justin_smith	figwheel doesn't become part of the end product, it just provides things like a clojurescript repl, auto-reload of clojure and css changes, etc.
12:45	pseudonymous	neoncontrails: wouldn't presume to know. I'm ~8 days in myself. What I can tell you is that I read (and re-read) sections of "Clojure for the true and brave" and picked up "Clojure Applied". From there, I just sort of picked up ring (wrapper for..jetty?) and compojure (routing) and went from there. I think I've picked up some 15 minor libraries by now.
12:45	neoncontrails	cloning now. :)
12:46	justin_smith	pseudonymous: ring is a protocol based wrapper for various web servers (including jetty, but also a tomcat container, or http-kit, among others)
12:47	justin_smith	pseudonymous: it provides an easy way to make a modular webapp that can run on whatever server you end up needing to use
12:47	pseudonymous	justin_smith: ahh. It's literally the only thing I just picked up from a tutorial and went on with :P
12:48	justin_smith	pseudonymous: by default it uses jetty if you use "lein ring"
12:48	justin_smith	but the same code you run via lein ring can also be shipped to run inside tomcat, or can self-host via http-kit, or whatever
12:48	neoncontrails	Oh, wow. From git-clone to a working interactive Flappy Bird session in the browser in less than 60 seconds. That's pretty darn cool :)
12:48	pseudonymous	justin_smith: yup, I do - hence my half-arsed assumption about it wrapping jetty in particular :)
12:49	justin_smith	neoncontrails: the figwheel demo?
12:49	neoncontrails	yeah
12:49	justin_smith	neoncontrails: with "lein new figwheel" you can get the bare bones setup to make your own figwheel / cljs project too
12:50	neoncontrails	This is much less painful than when I tried to get set up with Node!
12:50	justin_smith	pseudonymous: this discussion reminds me, I plan on trying the ring adapter for aleph one of these days
12:51	neoncontrails	ls
12:51	lazybot	home lib64 lost+found mnt opt proc root sbin srv tmp usr var
12:52	neoncontrails	sigh sorry guys thought you were terminal
12:52	justin_smith	(inc lazybot)
12:52	lazybot	⇒ 37
12:53	pseudonymous	justin_smith: only briefly encountered a discussion about various HTTP servers. Hoping to get back to it once the first version of this service is done - but definitely not now
12:54	justin_smith	yeah, the nice thing with ring is it lets you make the choice later
12:54	justin_smith	without having to do a major code revamp
12:54	justin_smith	more things should be like that
12:54	pseudonymous	Seems to be a general thing of lisp, even. I'm really liking this
12:55	justin_smith	pseudonymous: lisp somewhat, clojure very much so
12:55	justin_smith	pseudonymous: see also the generic collection operations and higher order functions
12:56	pseudonymous	justin_smith: hmm? What do you mean ?
12:57	justin_smith	pseudonymous: the whole language is built up on generic operations using a protocol that allows your custom implementation choice to be used
12:58	pseudonymous	Oh in that sense. Yes, very much so. Played a bit with protocols too, fun times :)
12:58	justin_smith	pseudonymous: as opposed to multiple ad-hoc versions of the same functionality, or concrete inheretence, or generics, or any of the other silly alternatives
12:58	justin_smith	pseudonymous: eg every time you use filter or map you are exploiting protocols (the fact that the first arg can be any IFn, the last arg can be anything seq knows how to turn into a list)
12:59	pseudonymous	Yup, these are basically the things I'm falling in love with, head over heels, in fact ;)
13:09	noncom	if i am using reagent to create html from cljs, then how do i reflect some changes in this html, produced by new data that arrived from a websocket?
13:10	noncom	in other words, the reagent-generated html is static, i don't know how to regenerate it when new data arrives
13:10	noncom	how to sustain dynamic html
13:11	justin_smith	noncom: when you get the message on the websocket, alter an ratom, and have a component that watches the value of the ratom in your page structure that reagent is rendering
13:11	noncom	when i was programming in plain coffee script, that was easy - i looked for particular objects inside my html and simply replaced their content with the new one generated upon the new data
13:11	noncom	justin_smith: aaaaahhh..
13:11	noncom	thaath's what!
13:11	noncom	thank you very much :)
13:11	justin_smith	noncom: so you know how to define a component inside the page structure, right?
13:12	justin_smith	the rest should be straightforward
13:12	noncom	yes, i am still following the luminus guidelines. i think that if i add the reagent atoms, all will work just as you've described
13:12	justin_smith	noncom: I'd check out the basic docs for reagent, because this is the crux of how reagent is used
13:13	noncom	yes, i will read them too. at least now i know the right direction
13:13	justin_smith	https://reagent-project.github.io/
13:13	noncom	i was really lost there
13:13	justin_smith	the docs there are good ^
13:13	noncom	oh, yes, i see it, looks very clear
13:14	noncom	cool :)
13:14	justin_smith	after the third example they introduce something using an ratom - once you get used to this model it is really much easier than finding and mutating elements in a page
13:15	noncom	sure :) that's so minimal and functional. looking at it i find it beautiful. the binding i mean. that kind of thing similar to how binding in seesaw works
13:16	noncom	but this one is bidirectional
13:40	sdroadie	Hey all. I've run into an issue inserting vectors into Postgresql using yesql.
13:41	sdroadie	The error I get is a little unhelpful: INSERT has more expressions than target columns.
13:42	justin_smith	sdroadie: well, jdbc expects your data to be inserted to be in a vector, right?
13:43	justin_smith	that's how I recall it at least, and would match that error message. It's saying that the yesql statement produces a jdbc call to insert N pieces of data, and your vector contains more than N items
14:35	dnolen	Opportunity grants available for Clojure/conj http://clojure-conj.org/opportunity
14:51	sgs03	Does anyone use honeysql? How might I apply a modifier to only one column? For example, I'd like to do: `Select id, max(last_modified) from...`
15:05	wombawomba	I want to define a macro that automatically creates a bunch of bundings; i.e. given (my-macro [some-name some-other-name] (println some-name some-other-name)) would print two values defined by the macro. Is this possible?
15:06	muhuk	wombawomba: `(let ...) ?
15:06	wombawomba	er, bindings*, not bindings
15:06	wombawomba	...not bundings*
15:07	wombawomba	muhuk: ah, so I could generate the first argument to let? good call, I guess
15:07	muhuk	wombawomba: when you're writing macros, it helps a lot if you write expanded code by hand first.
15:09	wombawomba	cool, thanks
15:20	TimMc	&(map #(re-find % "foo\n") [#"o\n$" #"o$"]) ;; why are both of these found?
15:20	lazybot	⇒ ("o\n" "o")
15:25	wombawomba	muhuk: I can't seem to get that working.. perhaps because let is a special form? e.g. (let [a ['b "c"]] (let a b)) gives 'java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: let requires a vector for its binding'
15:33	muhuk	wombawomba: why do you have two let's there?
15:34	muhuk	wombawomba: `(let [~'a ~a-value ~'b ~b-value] ~@body)
15:34	muhuk	wombawomba: not sure about ~'a, maybe it was '~a
15:34	wombawomba	muhuk: in the macro, I want to go through the provided list, and create a binding for each item. I then want to expose those bindings to the macro body
15:36	wombawomba	afaik I would then have to do something like (defmacro [things & body] (let [bindings (map ... things)] `(let bindings ~@body))
15:36	wombawomba	...since I don't know the length of things
15:38	muhuk	wombawomba: (defmacro [params body] (let [bindings (reduce (fn [acc x] (into acc [x (calculate-val x)]) [] params)] `(let bindings ~@body))
15:39	muhuk	wombawomba: yes, I was confused since the 2nd let didn't have the quoting.
15:39	muhuk	wombawomba: map doesn't work though because it would give [a b c] -> [a-val b-val c-val]
15:40	muhuk	wombawomba: makes sense?
15:41	wombawomba	muhuk: that won't work though
15:42	wombawomba	it gives 'clojure.core/let requires a vector for its binding...'
15:44	muhuk	wombawomba: what does (reduce (fn [acc x] (into acc [x (calculate-val x)]) [] params) produce?
15:45	wombawomba	well, if I do
15:45	wombawomba	(defmacro mymacro [params body]
15:45	wombawomba	(let [bindings (reduce (fn [acc x] (into acc [x (str x)])) [] params)]
15:45	wombawomba	(prn bindings)
15:45	wombawomba	`(let bindings ~@body)))
15:46	wombawomba	then (mymacro [something] (println something)) prints [something "something"] before throwing
15:47	amalloy	muhuk: isn't that just an eager version of (mapcat (juxt identity calculate-val) params)?
15:48	muhuk	amalloy: sure. I just don't want people to share don't do concat links with me anymore.
15:48	luma	wombawomba, your problem is that your macro generates a let that doesn't have a vector as its binding form
15:49	amalloy	wombawomba: `(let ~bindings ~@body)
15:49	muhuk	wombawomba: "~bindings", not just "bindings"
15:49	luma	that code has just the symbol 'bindings, and even if you had ~bindings there it would be a lazy sequence, not a vector
15:49	amalloy	luma: no, it's a vector
15:49	luma	oh, sorry
15:49	luma	i read that wrong then
15:49	wombawomba	amalloy: cool, thanks!
15:54	pseudonymous	Having "fun" wrapping various Amazon S3 classes. Running into a situation where the docs say a method should exist but calling it from clojure fails (as in it doesn't exist). Which tools do you typically use to inspect java objects? Specifically their publicly available methods (own + inherited)
15:55	Bronsa	ceridwen: sorry i went afk -- adding elements to a vector adds them to the tail, adding them to a seq adds them to the front
15:55	Bronsa	ceridwen: the vector already has the elements in reverse order compared to the seq, so there's no need to reverse
16:06	TimMc	&(map (comp count clojure.string/split-lines) ["" "\n" "\n\n"])
16:06	lazybot	⇒ (1 0 0)
16:07	roelof	In the book Clojure Web Development Essentials they talked about a profiles.cjl but I do not have one
16:07	roelof	Where do I put this one
16:08	pseudonymous	roelof: you'd usually have this file if you made a project with leiningen
16:08	pseudonymous	roelof: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/ (read the "Basic Usage" guide for details)
16:10	luxbock	pseudonymous: you are probably thinking of project.clj
16:10	luxbock	roelof: you can create one in ~/.lein/
16:10	luxbock	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/doc/PROFILES.md
16:12	roelof	luxbock: and if I create one in ~/.lein does that then count for all project or can I make one per project ?
16:12	pseudonymous	Oh, misread (& misremembered). project.clj is the per-project file and profiles.clj is for cross-profile settings. Whoops. That said, seems like a really bad idea (tm) if you work with others
16:12	amalloy	pseudonymous: there are plenty of things that are totally reasonable to put in profiles.clj
16:13	luxbock	roelof: yes profiles.clj is for all projects, and if you want per project profiles then you can add those to your project.clj's :profiles key
16:13	amalloy	like i have a few dependencies that are only useful to debugging/profiling stuff, which i include only in the repl profile
16:15	pseudonymous	amalloy: but wouldn't most people on your team probably want to use those same tools, too ? If you tell them "Oh just do x-y-z to see what's going on" they'll get an error until they go out and fetch the very same things
16:16	roelof	oke but then I have made a project and I could not do this : :user {:plugins [[luminus/lein-template "1.16.7"]]}
16:16	roelof	because then luminus is already installed
16:20	roelof	Am I right or wrong here ?
16:24	amalloy	pseudonymous: not really. do you put a cider dependendency in the :dev profile of every clojure project you use?
16:24	amalloy	developers have their own suite of debugging tools that they're familiar with
16:31	justin_smith	wait, why would roelof want a template in his plugins? or do they use confusing names for things?
16:31	ceridwen	Bronsa, andyf_: Thanks! Anyone know about my other question?
16:32	pseudonymous	amalloy: yes, right along with a bundled copy of '.emacs' :) (OK, I see your point)
16:47	skeuomorf	If anybody was curious about our SecureRandom discussion earlier, here http://bugs.java.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=4705093
16:47	skeuomorf	TL;DR "What a confusing mess."
17:04	neoncontrails	pseudonymous: your earlier problem sounds interesting. Did you ever find a better way to inspect the properties of Java objects?
17:21	pseudonymous	neoncontrails: I'm sure I made a mistake (sleepy). That said, yes, clojure.reflect/reflect is very verbose but should have it all. I say should because I abandoned rummaging through its output because the object I applied it on is rather large.
17:22	amalloy	pseudonymous: well you don't rummage through it by hand, you use functions to do it
17:24	amalloy	,(use 'clojure.reflect)
17:24	clojurebot	nil
17:24	amalloy	,(take 5 (map :name (filter (comp :public :flags) (:members (reflect String)))))
17:24	clojurebot	(replaceAll CASE_INSENSITIVE_ORDER codePointCount getChars regionMatches)
17:25	neoncontrails	Mmm. I can imagine that taking a while. The only times I've ever gotten bored waiting for a Java program to terminate have been reflective programs :)
17:25	pseudonymous	amalloy: had I had more time I would've begun parsing it or looking for snippets to do so. Anyway, I found my answer by other means
17:25	amalloy	,(take 5 (sort (map :name (filter (every-fn :return-type (comp :public :flags)) (:members (reflect String))))))
17:25	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: every-fn in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: every-fn in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6704]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: every-f...
17:26	amalloy	,(take 5 (sort (map :name (filter (every-pred :return-type (comp :public :flags)) (:members (reflect String))))))
17:26	clojurebot	(charAt codePointAt codePointBefore codePointCount compareTo)
17:26	amalloy	and so on
17:26	neoncontrails	pseudonymous: Can I rephrase your specific question about A3 objects as a general question, if you've already solved it?
17:27	pseudonymous	neoncontrails: I don't quite follow ? Rephrase it in what context ? To whom ?
17:30	Bronsa	I find that clojure.reflect returning symbols rather than Types/Classes is really inconvenient
17:30	neoncontrails	Haha, sorry. I worded that badly. I'm just curious about the general case where you have an object, possibly of some user-defined type, and possibly its methods are a black-box to you, but you need to be able to interact with it, usefully and safely. Is there's a general "Clojure strategy" for
17:30	skeuomorf	There isn't a clojure log() function, right? Just Java's `java.lang.Math.log()`
17:30	neoncontrails	*"Clojure strategy" for this situation?
17:32	justin_smith	neoncontrails: generally get the class and look for the source / javadoc
17:32	justin_smith	well, javadoc first
17:32	justin_smith	neoncontrails: also, for some objects you can get the bean
17:32	justin_smith	,(bean (java.util.Date.))
17:32	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "denied"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError\n :message nil\n :at [java.lang.reflect.Proxy$ProxyClassFactory apply "Proxy.java" 672]}\n {:type java.lang.SecurityException\n :message "denied"\n :at [clojurebot.sandbox$enable_security_manager$fn__835 invoke "sandbox.clj" 69]}]\n :trace\n [[clojurebot.sandbox$enable_security_manager$fn__835 invoke "sandbo...
17:32	justin_smith	:P
17:32	justin_smith	&(bean (java.util.Date.))
17:32	lazybot	⇒ {:day 3, :date 2, :time 1441229560282, :month 8, :seconds 40, :year 115, :class java.util.Date, :timezoneOffset 0, :hours 21, :minutes 32}
17:33	neoncontrails	That's for library-defined object types, right?
17:33	neoncontrails	Not for user-defined objects?
17:33	justin_smith	neoncontrails: that's for any object
17:33	justin_smith	bean uses reflection
17:33	oddcully	also vinyasa has some inspection stuff
17:33	justin_smith	there's also clojure.reflect of course
17:35	neoncontrails	Oh, neat. Are you always able to assume that the source code of a user-defined object is available to you?
17:35	justin_smith	neoncontrails: well, not always of course
17:36	justin_smith	neoncontrails: usually if I am writing code that deals with some non-clojure Object, I am targeting some interface
17:36	justin_smith	neoncontrails: if I am developing, and want to know how to interact with an object I get from some API, I check javadocs related to that API, or failing that the source code, since I am not using any closed source libs right now
17:38	pseudonymous	Will actually second that. I had one issue with Amazon's AWS classes to which I couldn't get an answer from either their docs, an IRC channel dedicated AWS services or blog posts - turns out it was easy enough to search through the code (it's nicely commented).
17:38	neoncontrails	I see. Between having lots of surgical functions targeting some specific interface vs. trying to make a single function robust against different types of objects (using reflection, say) do you lean toward one or the other?
17:39	justin_smith	neoncontrails: the point of an interface is that it is an abstraction that many objects implement
17:39	justin_smith	neoncontrails: which is why my first choice is to develop against some interface
17:39	neoncontrails	Objects of a type...
17:40	justin_smith	neoncontrails: if I write my code for a given interface, it should work with any object implementing that interface in a useful way
17:40	neoncontrails	Oh, I see what you mean
17:40	amalloy	nobody tries to write a function that uses reflection to guess at what methods a particular object has that might be relevant
17:40	amalloy	except the EJB people and they are certifiable
17:40	justin_smith	right, that's going to waste a lot of time
17:40	justin_smith	haha
17:41	amalloy	you just say, look, here is an interface with two methods i need you to implement. pass my function something that implements that interface
17:41	amalloy	and a lot of java code written as classes implementing interfaces anyway, so it is simple to interop with that
17:42	neoncontrails	Yes, that makes a lot of sense
17:44	amalloy	(and if they give you something that doesn't implement that interface, you don't use reflection to try and figure out something to do. you (throw (CmonManWhatTheHeckException. "Dude gimme an IWhatever"))
17:46	neoncontrails	I have a feeling that the way I've been interacting with objects in Python is somewhat clumsy and violent, and not translable to Clojure
17:50	neoncontrails	Specifically, in Python, it seems like the way variables are scoped basically contradicts the idea of private namespaces -- it's so easy just to call Foo.name rather than use getters/setters
17:50	pseudonymous	Actually a bit curious about that - how are clojurists feeling about exceptions ? The host platform itself absolutely adore them, but what of clojure ? Is it preferred to write functions to throw a bunch of exceptions or should errors be signalled via nil or... ?
17:50	neoncontrails	I had an interesting debate the other day in Python about this
17:50	neoncontrails	*in #Python about this
17:51	pseudonymous	neoncontrails: well, you can obscure the name by prefixing fields with __ and the Python mantra definitely is "We're all consenting adults, here" :)
17:52	neoncontrails	Haha. I hadn't heard that mantra, but it makes a lot of sense for a scripting language.
17:53	neoncontrails	But what if you're writing software? I cannot see the justification for eliminating getters/setters. I don't think they're just a long-winded version of calling Foo.var
17:54	neoncontrails	They strike me as a design choice, and a fairly good design choice
17:59	justin_smith	neoncontrails: in clojure we use immutable objects instead
18:00	justin_smith	you don't need getters when the fields literally cannot change
18:00	justin_smith	(and setters would kind of ruin the whole plan)
18:02	neoncontrails	You'll probably have to remind me of this another 4-5 times before my Pavlovian anxiety over mutable state goes away
18:02	justin_smith	neoncontrails: also getters/setters fit well with the OO paradigm where messy state stuff is hidden on the insides of things, but often in fp we want to push messy state stuff to the outside / boundaries between things and leave the inside side effect free
18:03	neoncontrails	You're right, of course. I see how that moots my concern, I'm just not used to having such assurances :)
18:03	justin_smith	neoncontrails: the horrifying thing is when you get used to it and then try to go back
18:04	amalloy	you'd be surprised how many of the java classes with getters and setters you write could be replaced with: public class FooHolder {public final int a; public final int b; public final String s; public FooHolder(int a, int b, String s) {this.a = a; this.b = b; this.s = s;}}
18:05	neoncontrails	Heh. I found the Scheme -> Java transition sort of soothing in a way, even though it was fun building classes from basically construction paper, macaroni shells, and paste
18:05	amalloy	which is a bit wordy itself, compared to just using a generic map in clojure. but compared to writing out all the getters and setters to "abstract" over the "private" "state"
18:07	justin_smith	neoncontrails: I'm sure you know about CLOS and the fact that it is available for scheme and you were just re-inventing OO for fun
18:07	neoncontrails	Yep. Well, our instructors were too, of course, they wouldn't have made it that easy ;)
18:08	justin_smith	right, of course
18:09	amalloy	CLOS for scheme seems like it could appropriately be renamed to SOS
18:09	justin_smith	amalloy: if only they had your wit
18:10	amalloy	i think that rather i lack their discretion. it's the sort of pun you fall into without even trying, so i presume they intentionally didn't do it
18:10	hiredman	amalloy: don't forget to add custom value hashing and equality
18:11	amalloy	well yes. those are things you should do too, if you want your objects to be able to participate in equality and hashing
18:11	amalloy	does java 8 have any kind of Pair<A,B>/Triple<A,B,C> yet, or do you still have to go use one of eighty different external libraries?
18:13	justin_smith	short answer appears to be no, long answer appears to be wow those people are nuts
18:14	amalloy	yeah
18:14	amalloy	i am reading about it now
18:20	neoncontrails	I asked a senior CS major whether I should take the 5th (optional) SICP unit, in which the idea is basically, now that you have a CLOS-like object system, let's use it!
18:20	neoncontrails	He told me the unit was made optional because of its unusually sadistic pedagogical approach
18:22	neoncontrails	Which basically culminates in the realization that the object system you have defined is an absolute nightmare and just very crazy, all of your objects being instantiated in exactly the same global namespace, etc
18:24	neoncontrails	Which eventually you fix, and that's the last project, but the professors supposedly wanted to impress on students the obscenity of building an object system in that fashion
18:25	justin_smith	neoncontrails: well, if you plan on doing software professionally, one should get accustomed to creating obscene atrocities
18:26	justin_smith	at least there was a "fix it" stage :)
18:27	neoncontrails	That's true! There's something nice about that approach, too, I think
18:29	neoncontrails	You would be grumbling in your head about the difficulty of such things you can barely put into words, because it's brand new difficulty, and then next week, learn that your frustrations are precisely the focus of the lecture
18:34	justin_smith	I want to implement a function that would detect a client sending a message in a loop. I'm thinking some kind of cache could help with this? maybe this is a functionality that has a name I am ignorant of?
18:35	amalloy	justin_smith: i don't really understand "detect a client sending a message in a loop"
18:35	justin_smith	eg. if I get more X messages in Y time period from any client that have identical contents, I want to log that fact
18:35	amalloy	is the client, in a loop, sending a message?
18:36	neoncontrails	I can think of some ways (cycle) could help you do this
18:36	justin_smith	amalloy: yes, specifically in a distributed system where we want to track down where the looping is (and people's first motivation is to blame their client - we can prove someone went rapid fire but can't always prove who did it)
18:37	neoncontrails	take lengthnum*2 samples from the message. if they're equal, message is in a loop right?
18:37	justin_smith	so it could be a server triggering itself, it could be react triggering reloads within its loading component and sending a request on each load...
18:37	amalloy	if you're getting a small enough number of messages that iterating over Y of them to check for dupes every time you get a new message this isn't too hard
18:37	justin_smith	neoncontrails: yeah, I just wonder if there is an existing thing for this
18:38	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah, that makes sense. I hoped someone would be like "you want message duplication via sampling, as implemented by ztellman/deus-ex-machina, very easy to use!"
18:39	amalloy	well the thing is, i have this vague feeling that there is something in lamina that's related to this, but not directly applicable
18:39	justin_smith	haha, I even had the author right
18:41	amalloy	justin_smith: i guess see lamina.stats/rate
18:42	amalloy	where the idea, if you were going to actually use this, would be to demux your inputs into one channel per input, and check the rate of every channel to see if it's above Y? i dunno, seems like a lot of work for not much value, but this is what i was thinking of
18:42	amalloy	that is, one channel per equality-partition of the inputs
18:43	justin_smith	right, interesting
18:44	neoncontrails	Hey... why don't you try mergesort?
18:45	neoncontrails	If there's a cycle, it'll appear as an uninterrupted sequence of double+ letters
18:46	neoncontrails	wait let me think this logic through more carefully
18:50	justin_smith	amalloy: for my purposes I don't even need to check message equality, just having monitoring that says "client X is asking for resource Y at rate Z" is often enough to track down an issue
18:51	amalloy	justin_smith: i made something that's close to that for 4clojure, lo these many years ago
18:52	amalloy	https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/blob/develop/src/foreclojure/social.clj#L11
18:52	amalloy	obviously it isn't exactly a solution to your problem, and i guess it only works where N=1, but it has some useful techniques probably
18:56	emauton	justin_smith: Depending on the resources you're willing to spend, perhaps you could hash the messages and check-and-update a count associated with each hash to (probably) locate rapid-fire dups.
18:57	amalloy	emauton: that's a little cheaper than just storing the messages themselves in a hashmap, but it's the same general approach. and it has the same problem: how do you decrement the count for a message? incrementing is easy
18:57	justin_smith	emauton: yeah, I would want to track rate and set thresholds based on our own design for warnings
18:59	emauton	amalloy: I guess ideally it'd be nice to age them out, resetting a TTL every time a message is updated, but it all sounds a bit finicky.
19:05	justin_smith	I think the clean way to do it would be a "grouping function" which is like a loosey-goosey hashing function that might only care about the request path and/or client id, a sample-rate that decides how often your metrics are updated, and a mutable cache that gets updated with each incoming request. The task that builds the metrics would also throw away stale input.
19:06	justin_smith	now that I come to this conclusion, I will probably see that the way lamina's rate function did it was better
19:08	emauton	oad...
19:08	emauton	00:36 < amalloy> if you're getting a small enough number of messages that iterating over Y of them to check for dupes every time you get a new message this isn't too hard
19:08	emauton	00:36 < justin_smith> neoncontrails: yeah, I just wonder if there is an existing thing for this
19:08	emauton	Bah, sorry.
19:09	justin_smith	let me guess, erc?
19:09	emauton	https://github.com/clojure/core.cache/wiki/TTL looks usable for something like this, fwiw.
19:09	justin_smith	emauton: yeah, caching overlaps here I think
19:09	emauton	No, just a tricky Thinkpad touchpad & irssi. :o)
19:11	Bronsa	just disable click on touch
19:12	Bronsa	I did that after like 2 hours of having a laptop
20:27	mordocai	Anyone know if eldoc and company-mode integration is currently broken for CIDER 0.10.0SNAPSHOT? Doesn't appear to be working for me and I want to make sure it's not me. Was working last time I checked, but that's been a bit.
20:27	amalloy	mordocai: are you sure eldoc mode is active?
20:28	amalloy	i had trouble in slime where sometimes it turned itself off
20:29	mordocai	Actually it is just eldoc mode. Company mode is working. amalloy: Yeah, definitely active. I've toggled it a couple times.
20:29	mordocai	Is there a way to manually make eldoc return what it would say in the minibuffer? Maybe something with my minibuffer is broken.
20:33	mordocai	So that's strange. It works in the repl buffer but not in the file buffer. It is supposed to work in the file buffer right?
20:34	amalloy	is that file associated with an nrepl session? if you have a cider connection in project A, then it won't necessarily be able to provide documentation in B
20:36	Bronsa	I've never been able to make eldoc work on file buffer with either cider or slime :/ only in repl buffers
20:36	mordocai	amalloy: I got it working by running (ns <project name>.core)
20:36	mordocai	Idk why that made it work
20:36	mordocai	It was in user namespace before that
20:37	mordocai	Bronsa: Haven't tried slime, but it was working for for Elisp in scratch.
20:49	felipedvorak	Hi. I'm extra dupper noob, and in my recently installed Prelude with cider installed with packages-list-packages, when I do cider-jack-in it successfully opens the repl window but with an error saying cider version 0.10-0-snapshot doesnt match cider-nrepl's version (not installed).. any ideas?
20:51	mordocai	felipedvorak: Yep, see cider-nrepl docs
20:51	mordocai	one sec
20:52	mordocai	felipedvorak: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider-nrepl
20:53	mordocai	Make a file called ~/.lein/profiles.clj and put {:user {:plugins [[cider/cider-nrepl "0.10.0-SNAPSHOT"]]}} in it
20:53	mordocai	So same as the docs but for the version
20:54	mordocai	You'll have to update that version in lockstep with cider itself in emacs or you'll get that error
20:56	felipedvorak	mordocai: update in lockstep you mean manually?
20:56	felipedvorak	I'm following a tutorial so I missed that documentation. Thanks :)
20:56	mordocai	felipedvorak: Yeah, i don't know of a way to do it automatically. Doesn't take long though.
20:56	mordocai	I had similar troubles when I was first setting it up, so NP.
21:05	mordocai	If I update my project dependencies in lein is there an easy way to get cider to reload or should I just close and jack-in?
21:07	futuro	mordocai: you might be interested in clj-refactor.el, which does many things, but hot-loading is among them
21:07	futuro	otherwise you probably want...alembic, I think it's called
21:07	futuro	I'll look for it
21:08	futuro	yeah, alembic
21:08	felipedvorak	mordocai: You know if I should run some install command after that? emacs isn't recognizing it..
21:08	futuro	clj-refactor, when used with the refactor-nrepl middleware, uses alembic to do hot-loading
21:09	futuro	so if you don't want to set all that up, pulling in alembic should do what you want
21:09	futuro	(though I've never used just alembic, so I'm not positive)
21:14	mordocai	futuro: Coolness. I'll have to try out clj-refactor.
21:14	mordocai	felipedvorak: So it's actually for leiningen so it should "just work". Do you kill cider and do a new cider-jack-in?
21:14	futuro	I've really enjoyed having it
21:14	felipedvorak	mordocai: yeah.. :/
21:17	mordocai	felipedvorak: Looking up how to check if a middleware is installed with lein
21:19	mordocai	felipedvorak: Not quite what i'm looking for, but run lein show-profiles user in terminal and pastebin the result.
21:21	felipedvorak	mordocai: lein show-profiles user outputs nothing, ive tried substituting user for my actual username, which also outputs nothing, and only lein show-profiles outputs base, debug, default, leiningen/default, leiningen/test, offline, uberjar, update
21:22	mordocai	Yeah lein isn't seeing your profiles.clj then
21:22	mordocai	Double check it is in /home/<your username/.lein/profiles.clj
21:22	felipedvorak	mordocai: confirmed
21:23	mordocai	Can you put the contents of profiles.clj on a pastebin?
21:23	mordocai	Also check permissions
21:23	mordocai	Mine are 644 for that file. 600 should be fine (hell 400 should be, but idk)
21:24	felipedvorak	permission is just read-write for the user, read for the rest
21:24	mordocai	Yeah, that should be fine
21:24	mordocai	That's what mine are
21:27	felipedvorak	all that it contains is {:user {:plugins [[cider/cider-nrepl "0.10.0-SNAPSHOT"]]}}
21:29	mordocai	felipedvorak: Weirdness. What's lein version say
21:29	felipedvorak	Leiningen 2.5.2 on Java 1.7.0_85 OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM
21:30	mordocai	Same as me besides build version of java VM (which shouldn't matter). I'm at a bit of a loss as to why lein isn't loading that then.
21:30	mordocai	I'm thinking some small typo that isn't showing up in our communications but idk
21:31	mordocai	I'm not really an expert
21:31	felipedvorak	mordocai: no problem, I thank you a lot for your help :)
21:36	TimMc	pseudonymous: org.timmc.handy.repl/show for inspection
21:38	TimMc	https://github.com/timmc/handy/blob/3da099f0c1440d5a8ab31cb9d369f414067a1204/src/org/timmc/handy/repl.clj#L53
21:49	mordocai	So I'm working on a little maildir library for a project of mine and I could use some help on idiomatic clojure. Specifically looking for help with clojure-maildir.core/move-email right now. It works, but I don't see how to test my corrupted file checking properly errors and I feel it could be written better. Ideas? https://github.com/mordocai/clojure-maildir
22:14	justin_smith	mordocai: is comparing the hashes of the file contents even easier than just checking byte by byte equality in this case?
22:15	justin_smith	if you have both files on disk, and need to consume the files to check the sha1, why not just compare every byte?
22:15	justin_smith	it might be a different consideration if you calculated the first sha while copying the first file, saves a file read
22:17	skeuomorf	so, defn- makes the function accessible only within the ns it was defined in?
22:17	justin_smith	sort of
22:17	justin_smith	there's always the @#'var trick
22:18	skeuomorf	justin_smith: Why "sort of"? The docs aren't very verbose
22:18	skeuomorf	justin_smith: ah, so by that I could access it
22:18	justin_smith	@#'var will access the value even if it is annotated :private
22:18	justin_smith	right
22:18	skeuomorf	I see
22:18	justin_smith	but I guess privacy always has some caveat
22:19	justin_smith	defn- will definitely make it clear to people using your lib that you intend the function to be private
22:19	skeuomorf	Yeah
22:21	skeuomorf	Is there a document somewhere which lists all the available abstractions with brief but terse explanations? By abstractions, I mean (defrecord, protocols, deftype,..etc)
22:21	justin_smith	http://conj.io has that and more
22:21	justin_smith	also the docs on clojure.org of course
22:22	skeuomorf	I skimmed the docs
22:22	skeuomorf	http://conj.io is like the cheatsheet but a little nicer
22:22	justin_smith	yeah
22:58	mordocai	justin_smith: Theoretically i'm checking at the filesystem level that there wasn't corruption. A bit overkill, but i'm particular about my email. I was thinking of making the verification an optional flag (defaulting to on) anyway. Besides that is there anything that jumps out at you?
22:58	mordocai	filesystem-ish level
22:58	mordocai	OS caches and all that jazz
22:59	justin_smith	no, otherwise it looks fine enough
23:00	mordocai	Cool. The other stubbed out functions is all that I require for my little application I'm writing (clojure-mailfilter) for my personal usecase. So close!
23:03	mordocai	I suppose if I really wanted to be sure I should force a fsync and reload the files then check byte equality. Not sure how to do all that in java, and definitely overkill.
23:10	irctc	hello
23:11	irctc	how do you debug a classnotfound exception?
23:12	mordocai	Probably post it to a pastebin, give more context, and we can try to walk you through debugging it.
23:12	mordocai	Easiest way i've found to learn besides blogs/books/beating your head against the wall.
23:12	justin_smith	irctc: ClassNotFound is either a typo, or your deps are set up wrong
23:12	justin_smith	irctc: yeah, share the stack trace in a paste if you can
23:13	irctc	(ns web-scraper.core ;; (:gen-class) (:import [com.mohaps.xtractor Extractor] [com.mohaps.fetch Fetcher])) (defn -main "I don't do a whole lot ... yet" [& args] (println "Hello, World!")) (let [xtractor (Extractor. (Fetcher.))])
23:13	irctc	http://pastebin.com/29nRbpyG
23:14	justin_smith	irctc: how are your deps set up?
23:14	irctc	http://pastebin.com/uWz1sFw8
23:14	irctc	I am using this https://github.com/tobyhede/lein-git-deps
23:16	justin_smith	irctc: well, I know nothing about htat plugin, but ClassNotFoundException makes me think you either spelled something wrong or didn't set the plugin or dep up correctly
23:16	irctc	right
23:16	justin_smith	are you building the java code yourself?
23:16	justin_smith	does the plugin build the code?
23:19	irctc	I am importing it directly
23:19	irctc	Can cider evaluate defproject?
23:20	justin_smith	no, I mean, javac has to run in order to build java code, are you running the compilation or does the plugin do it for you?
23:21	irctc	I think it only adds the dependencies. See: https://github.com/tobyhede/lein-git-deps/blob/master/src/leiningen/git_deps.clj
23:21	justin_smith	OK, so did you compile the code?
23:21	irctc	It was extracted from the cljscript leiningen
23:22	irctc	http://pastebin.com/0H496P9Z
23:22	irctc	I am too sure
23:23	irctc	Can leiningen build it automatically?
23:23	justin_smith	irctc: I think with a java project you'll have to define the task if it can at all - because different java projects use different build tools
23:24	irctc	right
23:24	irctc	can cider evaluate defproject?
23:24	justin_smith	maybe you'll need to figure out where lein-git-deps puts the source and compile it yourself?
23:24	irctc	it puts it in a folder call .lein-git-deps in the project root
23:24	justin_smith	irctc: I'm not sure what you mean, it can start up a repl, what are you expecting cider to do with your defproject?
23:25	irctc	I get this error:1. Caused by java.lang.RuntimeException Unable to resolve symbol: defproject in this context Util.java: 221 clojure.lang.Util/runtimeException
23:26	irctc	this is what happens when I evaluate the defproject file
23:26	justin_smith	defproject isn't for a clojure repl to load, it's for leiningen. I mean you can load the leiningen libs and use load-project to load up a project but you don't usually need that...
23:26	irctc	oh
23:26	irctc	I see
23:26	irctc	thanks!
23:27	justin_smith	leiningen uses the project.clj file to figure out how to start your repl - by the time you have your repl the defproject is usually done its work already
23:28	irctc	if the java library uses maven, how can I get leiningen to compile it automatically?
23:30	justin_smith	I guess you'll need a custom prep-task that finds the directory where the plugin did the git checkout and then runs the right maven command? seems like it would be complicated to me though, what about just cloning the git repo manually and using maven to install it to your local repo?
23:31	mordocai	Idk much about maven, but this seems to suggest that maven and lein work together? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15910567/does-leiningen-read-maven-settings-in-m2-settings-xml
23:32	justin_smith	mordocai: lein can use maven settings, but he is talking about auto-building a maven project with an obscure lein plugin...
23:32	justin_smith	I mean maybe there's an easy way to do it but... ?
23:33	irctc	What I meant is whether leiningen will automatically compile the source
23:33	justin_smith	irctc: the problem is the source you want compiled uses a maven setup
23:33	justin_smith	it's not even configured for lein
23:33	justin_smith	it's not part of your lein project
23:33	irctc	right.....
23:34	felipedvorak	mordocai: fixed it! hehe had to add :profiles {:dev {:plugins [[cider/cider-nrepl "0.7.0"]]}}) to the end of the projects project.clj. nothing like reading the docs, now back to the tutorial :D thanks again
23:34	justin_smith	how would lein know how to build it?
23:34	irctc	so I will have to retrieve the dependencies using maven right?
23:34	felipedvorak	ops, substituting 0.7.0 to 0.10.0-SNAPSHOT of course
23:34	mordocai	felipedvorak: The user namespace way should have done it too but shrug. Glad it fixed it.
23:35	irctc	doesn't leiningen use maven beneath it?
23:35	justin_smith	no
23:35	felipedvorak	mordocai: I'll make sure to investigate this further after finishing the tutorial :)
23:35	justin_smith	irctc: leiningen uses some of the same libs maven uses, but it doesn't use maven
23:36	irctc	justin_smith: Do you know what is the command the need to be ran in order to retrieve the maven dependency?
23:36	irctc	*dependencies
23:36	irctc	Will this work: https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-localrepo
23:36	irctc	?
23:37	justin_smith	irctc: you have to have maven installed, and then you can run "maven compile"
23:37	justin_smith	https://maven.apache.org/guides/introduction/introduction-to-the-lifecycle.html
23:38	justin_smith	but I think it would be easier to just run "maven install" and then tell lein to use that jar
23:38	justin_smith	unless you need to frequently update to the latest version of that java code
23:40	irctc	nope, the development for that project has pretty much completed and I am using it from my github repo
23:43	talios	justin_smith - if that's a _real_ project and not some toy - install a repository manager, and deploy it there, so the rest of your company can use it - without having compile :)
23:47	irctc	I just checked the library source, the maven pom file is only used for building. All dependencies is stored in the git directory
23:47	irctc	https://github.com/mohaps/xtractor/blob/master/pom.xml
23:47	irctc	so I don't actually need maven
23:49	talios	mmm there not in the git repo tho... they're in a maven repo tho
23:50	talios	xtractor isn't even a clojure project...
23:51	justin_smith	irctc: well something has to turn the .java files into .class files before you use them
23:52	justin_smith	usually maven would do that
23:52	justin_smith	talios: exactly
23:52	irctc	currently I am getting dependency errors as leiningen is trying to compile the webapp together with the library
23:52	justin_smith	irctc: the class isn't found because you aren't compiling it
23:53	irctc	leiningen cannot compile it because there's a web app
23:53	justin_smith	use maven install, or do as talios says and install to a shared repo
23:53	irctc	as in the "library" is in the same repo as the web app
23:53	justin_smith	irctc: leiningen can't compile it because it's not a lein app, it's a maven app
23:53	justin_smith	s/app/lib
23:54	justin_smith	anyway I'm out for the night, good luck
23:54	irctc	oh
23:54	irctc	thanks
23:55	irctc	it worked
23:55	irctc	thanks a ton!
23:55	justin_smith	np, glad you figured it out