#clojure – 2015-08-20

2015-08-20

02:49	mdallastella	'morning
03:40	Olajyd	Hi, TEttinger
03:43	TEttinger	hey Olajyd
03:44	Olajyd	Great to have you around
03:45	Olajyd	TEtinger say given a date string, I want to be able to add days to it, I’m kinda lost on how to go about it
03:47	Olajyd	TEtinger, some of the use cases: 365 will add one year, -7 will subtract one week. 0.5 will add half a day, and 0.04 will add a little less than one hour (57 minutes and 36 seconds).
03:48	Kneiva	Olajyd: https://github.com/clj-time/clj-time
03:49	Olajyd	aite Kneiva
03:54	Olajyd_	Kneiva, what should i bee lookiing for
03:56	Kneiva	Olajyd_: that's a clojure wrapper to yoda time library, that does pretty much what you want: manipulate dates and times
03:56	Kneiva	(t/plus (t/date-time 1986 10 14) (t/months 1) (t/weeks 3))
03:56	Kneiva	=> #<DateTime 1986-12-05T00:00:00.000Z>
03:59	Olajyd	hmmm Kneiva, say the date sting is 2014-05-12 Do I have to split the string to be in the form of “2014 05 12”
04:01	TEttinger	(inc Kneiva)
04:02	Olajyd	Kneiva: or parse the date string
04:05	TEttinger	Olajyd: clj-time.format has what you need I think.
04:05	TEttinger	(formatter "yyyy-MM-dd")
04:06	TEttinger	should be the format you want, if it's month then day
04:06	gilliard	If that's May 12th then the built-in formatter will get it.
04:07	gilliard	,(clj-time.format/parse "2012-05-12")
04:07	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "clj-time.format"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassNotFoundException\n :message "clj-time.format"\n :at [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]}]\n :trace\n [[java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]\n [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 355]\n [java.security.AccessController doPrivileged "AccessController.java" -2]\n [java...
04:08	Olajyd	I’m assuming that the format is going to be in "2012-05-12" format
04:08	gilliard	If the "05" is the month part (not the day-of-month) then that's iso8601 format so the default parser will work without a custom format.
04:16	TEttinger	oh nice
04:31	Olajyd	So what do you think?
04:31	Olajyd	sorry I got disconnected from the rom for a while
04:31	Olajyd	*room
04:32	Olajyd	TEttinger, any other suggestions
04:33	TEttinger	Olajyd: I think gilliard is right on here. 05 is may, right? and 12 is the 12th day?
04:33	Olajyd	Yes exactly
04:33	TEttinger	yeah then the code gilliard gave should work just fine: (clj-time.format/parse "2012-05-12")
04:34	TEttinger	with a dependency on clj-time in your project.clj
04:34	Olajyd	TEtitinger, ok
04:34	Olajyd	what else
04:34	gilliard	Works for me (tm) - I suppose clojurebot is missing that dependency
04:34	Olajyd	ok
04:34	Olajyd	and work with Kneiva, solutions right?
04:35	Olajyd	*solution
04:35	TEttinger	yeah, that should give you a date in the clj-time format, you should be able to use Kneiva's suggestions just fine
04:35	Olajyd	ok
04:35	TEttinger	Kneiva had required clj-time as t
04:35	Olajyd	Thanks
04:35	TEttinger	(inc Kneiva)
04:35	TEttinger	lazybot is down again :)
04:38	gilliard	Ooh - can we require stuff into clojurebot? Or is that Kneiva-only?
04:39	Olajyd	Kneiva, where art thou?
04:40	Olajyd	:)
04:46	Kneiva	gilliard: My example was just a copy paste from the library readme.
04:46	Kneiva	Does clojurebot support requiring stuff on the fly?
04:49	amalloy	Kneiva: try it and see
04:56	gilliard	,(require '[clj-time.format :as f])
04:56	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Could not locate clj_time/format__init.class or clj_time/format.clj on classpath. Please check that namespaces with dashes use underscores in the Clojure file name."\n :via\n [{:type java.io.FileNotFoundException\n :message "Could not locate clj_time/format__init.class or clj_time/format.clj on classpath. Please check that namespaces with dashes use underscores in the Clojure ...
04:56	Kneiva	could not get it to require anything
04:58	amalloy	it won't dynamically go and download jars off the internet for you. but neither will any clojure repl; you'd need to change your project.clj to get lein to pre-download that stuff before starting your program
04:59	amalloy	anything that is actually on the classpath, clojurebot will require, eg (require '[clojure.string :as s])
04:59	gilliard	,(t/in-hours (t/days 1)) ; good
04:59	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "No such namespace: t"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: t, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6704]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "No such namespace: t"\n :at [clojure.lang.Util runtimeException "Util.java" 221]}]\n :trace...
05:02	Kneiva	amalloy: Using this would make it possible I guess: https://github.com/cemerick/pomegranate
06:53	Olajyd	HI
06:55	Olajyd	I want to add 0.4 days to a particular clojure date which is equivalnent to (57 minutes and 36 seconds). I tried (t/plus (tf/parse (tf/formatter "yyyy-MM-dd") date-string) (t/days d)), any suggestion as to why this is so
06:55	gilliard	(t/days) only takes integers
06:55	Olajyd	(t/plus (tf/parse (tf/formatter "yyyy-MM-dd") “2014-05-12”) (t/days 0.4))
06:56	gilliard	You need to do (t/hours (* 0.4 24)) or something like that.
06:56	Olajyd	Hi, gilliard, :)
06:56	Olajyd	hmmm
06:58	Olajyd	gilliard, so I wan to implement the function in such a way that all that will bw passed in to the function is just date strin and the number of days
06:58	Olajyd	forgive my typos I’m trying to get used to touch typing :)
06:59	gilliard	If you need non-integer number of days, I don't think clj-time will do that. I raised https://github.com/clj-time/clj-time/issues/192 but it was closed straight away :)
07:01	Olajyd	gilliard, you are `mjg123` that raised th issue right?
07:03	gilliard	yep
07:05	Olajyd	gilliard, so what do you advise I do in such a way that it handles both days in integers (7) and floats (0.5)?
07:14	TEttinger	Olajyd: you could probably get the timespan of 1 day in milliseconds, which is some very large number, multiply that by 0.4, and then convert back to a datetime
07:15	Olajyd	ok
07:15	Olajyd	TEttinger, thanks :)
07:16	TEttinger	I'm checking the API to see how to do that
07:16	Olajyd	ok, will really appreciate it
07:22	TEttinger	(clj-time.coerce/from-long (long (* 0.4 (clj-time.coerce/to-long (clj-time.core/days 1))))) ; not sure how well this works
07:23	TEttinger	but that would I think get a DateTime that is basically 0.4 of a day. I don't know what would be needed to convert that to a period again
07:24	TEttinger	getting late here, good luck Olajyd!
07:33	Olajyd	hahah thought as much, thanks TEttinger, catch ya tomorrow :)
07:40	Olajyd	,(clj-time.coerce/from-long (long (* 0.4 (clj-time.coerce/to-long (clj-time.core/days 1)))))
07:40	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "clj-time.coerce"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassNotFoundException\n :message "clj-time.coerce"\n :at [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]}]\n :trace\n [[java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]\n [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 355]\n [java.security.AccessController doPrivileged "AccessController.java" -2]\n [java...
08:25	jweiss	if I have a set of functions that all take a first arg foo, what's the best way to get a set of functions that close over foo (and take one less argument)? I know i could make a map of them, but then things get awkward-looking like ((:f m) bar)
08:25	jweiss	i thought of just dynamically creating a new namespace
08:25	jweiss	but i have never seen that done anywhere else.
08:26	jweiss	(sorry what I meant earlier is "get a set of functions that close over a particular value of foo"
08:39	opqdonut	jweiss: how about using a dynamic var for foo and then having (with-foo [the-foo] ... (function 1 2 3) ...)
08:39	opqdonut	maybe separate (function foo 1 2 3) and (function* 1 2 3) variants or something
08:44	jweiss	opqdonut: yeah, i know i can do that, then the functions aren't functional anymore :)
08:47	opqdonut	then just return a map I guess?
08:56	jasonx2	clojure has dynamic variables? like common lisp?
08:56	jasonx2	isn't that rather unfunctional?
08:59	novak`	What to use for Redis? I found that there is Aleph but can't find any exapmles
09:13	chouser	jasonx2: most variables are lexical in Clojure. Dynamic ones are available, and yes that's not very functional in the modern sense of the word.
09:27	pepijndevos	Is rand-nth constant time for vectors?
09:30	gilliard	It's the same as element access time which is O(log32 N), which is often referred to as effectively constant time.
09:31	gilliard	(same as nth)
10:50	futuro	Is there a general preference for private functions and defs in clojure?
10:51	futuro	so far I've used the non-private versions, but I've seen the private ones pop up here and there
10:52	stuartsierra	futuro: private defs are basically a form of documentation: "This is not a public API, don't call it from other namespaces"
10:53	futuro	So clojure doesn't stop you from using or importing private defs?
10:58	stuartsierra	futuro: The compiler will throw an error if you try to call a private function from another namespace, but you can always work around it with the var-hack: @#'the-namespace/the-var
10:59	futuro	neat. That's good to know if I ever need that.
10:59	futuro	Thank you for the clarification
11:01	stuartsierra	you're welcome
11:16	pflanze	Is there a function that takes two (or n) lists, and compares all items in them with a given comparison function, and returns true if the comparison function returned true for all elements and both lists are of the same length? (Stopping early in the false case.)
11:17	justin_smith	,(map > [1 2 3 4] [0 3 1 2] [-1 -1 -1 -1])
11:17	clojurebot	(true false true true)
11:17	justin_smith	it could be I misunderstood your question
11:17	pflanze	,(every true? (map > [1 2 3 4] [0 3 1 2] [-1 -1 -1 -1]))
11:17	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: every in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: every in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6704]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: every in this...
11:18	justin_smith	,(every? true (map > [1 2 3 4] [0 3 1 2] [-1 -1 -1 -1]))
11:18	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassCastException\n :message "java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn"\n :at [clojure.core$every_QMARK_ invokeStatic "core.clj" 2553]}]\n :trace\n [[clojure.core$every_QMARK_ invokeStatic "core.clj" 2553]\n [clojure.core$every_QMARK_ invoke "core.clj" -1]\n [sandbox$eval72 invoke...
11:18	justin_smith	one more time...
11:18	justin_smith	,(every? true? (map > [1 2 3 4] [0 3 1 2] [-1 -1 -1 -1]))
11:18	clojurebot	false
11:18	justin_smith	,(every? true? (map > [1 2 3 4] [0 0 1 2] [-1 -1 -1 -1]))
11:18	clojurebot	true
11:19	jasonx2	is there a function that does this? (1 2 3) and "foo" to ((1 'f') (1 'o') (1 'o') (2 'f') (2 'o') (2 'o') (3 'f') (3 'o') (3 'o'))
11:19	pflanze	justin_smith, is this lazy? I guess no since those are vectors?
11:19	justin_smith	,(map list [1 2 3] "foo")
11:19	clojurebot	((1 \f) (2 \o) (3 \o))
11:19	justin_smith	pflanze: yes it is lazy, every? stops at the first false result
11:20	pflanze	Yes, but will map produce a 4-item list in any case?
11:20	justin_smith	pflanze: regardless of the input types, map and every? are lazy
11:20	justin_smith	so no, it is not eager
11:20	pflanze	ok
11:20	pflanze	Thanks!
11:20	jasonx2	just_smith in case it is isn't obvious, thats not the same :)
11:20	scriptor	yep, the call to every? will stop consume the result of map if it hits a false
11:20	justin_smith	jasonx2: iow "yes, except 'f' is not a clojure thing"
11:21	jasonx2	??
11:21	clojurebot	? is suddenly
11:21	justin_smith	jasonx2: oh, wait :)
11:21	justin_smith	,(for [x [1 2 3] y"foo"] (list x y))
11:21	clojurebot	((1 \f) (1 \o) (1 \o) (2 \f) (2 \o) ...)
11:21	justin_smith	that's your answer (except it's \f not 'f' because 'f' is not clojure)
11:22	jasonx2	oh right. i actually know that
11:23	justin_smith	,'f' - exists, but is not what you might expect
11:23	clojurebot	f'
11:23	justin_smith	it's the symbol f'
11:26	pflanze	,(every? true? (map > [1 2 3 4] [0 0 1 2] [-1 -1 -1]))
11:26	clojurebot	true
11:26	pflanze	Hm, actually it doesn't qualify for my given requirement.
11:26	justin_smith	,(symbol "'f'")
11:26	clojurebot	'f'
11:26	pflanze	(Unequal list lengths.)
11:26	justin_smith	the lists are of equal length
11:26	hyPiRion	pflanze: what should it do if the lists are unequal?
11:27	justin_smith	oh no they are not
11:27	pflanze	hyPiRion, return false
11:27	pflanze	Or give an exception which I could turn into a false.
11:28	jasonx2	,(every? true? (map > [1 2 3] [0 1 2 3 4 5]))
11:28	clojurebot	true
11:28	pflanze	I guess we're reaching the point where I'm going to write a function from scratch.
11:28	justin_smith	,(let [ls [[1 2 3 4] [0 0 1 2] [-1 -1 -1]]] (and (apply = (map count ls)) (every? true? (apply map > ls)))
11:28	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
11:28	justin_smith	,(let [ls [[1 2 3 4] [0 0 1 2] [-1 -1 -1]]] (and (apply = (map count ls)) (every? true? (apply map > ls))))
11:28	clojurebot	false
11:29	justin_smith	much uglier, but it works
11:29	justin_smith	only use that if you won't get indefinite length input
11:29	justin_smith	otherwise you'll want something that doesn't use count
11:30	pflanze	Of course, I can't compare infinite lists definitely.
11:30	justin_smith	or count them
11:30	jasonx2	,(length (range))
11:30	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: length in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: length in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6704]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: length in t...
11:30	jasonx2	,(count (range))
11:30	pflanze	I was really expecting some (list-compare compare? l1 l2)
11:31	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
11:31	justin_smith	pflanze: yeah, you can use compare, but that compares the lists, not the items
11:31	justin_smith	,(compare [1 2 3] [0 0 0 0])
11:31	clojurebot	-1
11:31	justin_smith	,(compare [1 2 3 4] [0 0 0])
11:31	clojurebot	1
11:32	justin_smith	s/lists/sequential things
11:32	pflanze	,(compare [1 2] [0 0])
11:32	clojurebot	1
11:32	pflanze	,(compare [1 2] [1 2])
11:32	clojurebot	0
11:32	pflanze	Yes, now a variant that takes a predicate.
11:32	justin_smith	,(doc compare)
11:32	clojurebot	"([x y]); Comparator. Returns a negative number, zero, or a positive number when x is logically 'less than', 'equal to', or 'greater than' y. Same as Java x.compareTo(y) except it also works for nil, and compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner. x must implement Comparable"
11:33	jasonx2	would you say clojure is closest to scheme, common lisp or haskell?
11:34	justin_smith	jasonx2: probably I'd put them in that order (most similar to scheme, etc.)
11:41	jasonx2	,(cycle '(1 2 3))
11:41	clojurebot	(1 2 3 1 2 ...)
11:41	jasonx2	function names, though, seem to match those in haskell often. i can just guess many, having dabbled in haskell before
11:41	justin_smith	,(shuffle (take 300 (cycle [1 2 3])))
11:41	clojurebot	[2 3 2 2 3 ...]
11:42	scriptor	those function names tend to be common in functional programming in general
11:42	scriptor	rather than a haskell-specific thing :)
11:42	justin_smith	scriptor: well, haskell was invented as a coming together of all the functional langs
11:42	jasonx2	map is common. I can't say take or cycle are
11:43	jasonx2	ML?
11:43	scriptor	possibly from ML
11:43	justin_smith	haskell came from clean, miranda, ml, some others whose names I am forgetting
11:44	hiredman	http://www.amazon.com/Clojure-Bookshelf/lm/R3LG3ZBZS4GCTH
11:44	justin_smith	there were a bunch, a lot of them were closed source, it fragmented the pl research community in the '80s, so they got a conference together and invented haskell
11:45	scriptor	ah, didn't know that
11:45	scriptor	did ocaml come about after haskell was conceived?
11:45	justin_smith	hmm - now I wonder
11:46	scriptor	caml (without the o) is from '85
11:46	justin_smith	scriptor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_(programming_language)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCaml 1990 vs. 1996
11:48	justin_smith	vs. 1985 for the original caml, as you mention
11:49	pepijndevos	Halp. I refactored som Cljs code, and now it's way slower. At the top of Chome's profile is cljs$core$pr_writer_impl
11:49	pepijndevos	I'm not even printing anything.
11:50	jasonx2	how does ocaml compare to haskell, other than the obvious things (strict vs lazy evaluation)
11:51	scriptor	pepijndevos: does the profile show what is callingit?
11:52	pepijndevos	scriptor how do I tell? Further down there is cljs$core$print_map
11:52	justin_smith	jasonx2: in general haskell attempts to get speed via "cleverness" in the compiler and advanced static analysis, while OCaml attempts to get runtime performance via a simple and relatively uncomplicated compiler. The fascinating thing is they are not much different in performance.
11:54	pepijndevos	hmmm cljs.core.PersistentVector.toString
11:55	justin_smith	pepijndevos: could all this toString and pr_writer_impl stuff be invoked as a side effect ofthe profiling? it would be ironic...
11:55	jasonx2	justin what about language srmantics
11:56	justin_smith	jasonx2: like you mention, it's mainly about lazy vs. strict, though haskell tends to be more academic and experimental (this is their intended niche after all)
11:56	pepijndevos	ahhhh, I mismatched some parameter which instead of throwing a type error got turned into a string somewhere.
11:56	pepijndevos	Not yet sure where, but setting the correct parameter order brings back the speed.
11:57	justin_smith	I guess that would do it...
11:57	pepijndevos	It's way faster even.
12:25	zxc	hey, can someone help me with lazy seqs? or should I go to #clojure-beginners?
12:25	justin_smith	zxc: you can go ahead and ask your question
12:25	Olajyd	zxc, sorry i just joined, whats your question
12:25	Olajyd	Hi, justin_smith
12:26	zxc	I just need someone to explain them to me, I read chapter about them in brave clojure and I understand nothing
12:26	zxc	Olajyd: sorry for what? :)
12:26	justin_smith	zxc: that's kind of broad - do you have specific concrete questions maybe/
12:27	zxc	justin_smith: I get that they don't process every value until I need it, but I don't understand this 32 value thing
12:28	Olajyd	zxc: sorry I thought u asked a question on lazy seqs? I just went through the chat history and saw your question
12:28	zxc	(I'm coming from haskell world btw)
12:28	zxc	Olajyd: no, I've just joined
12:28	Olajyd	ok
12:28	justin_smith	zxc: I assume "32 value thing" is something that demonstrating chunking - that is, you can't assume that values not yet used are not produced
12:29	justin_smith	zxc: if you use lazily produced values in a "pure" way it's nothing to worry about
12:29	zxc	" In reality, Clojure "chunks" lazy sequences, realizing 32 members at a time"
12:29	zxc	that's the sentence I have problems with
12:29	justin_smith	zxc: but a lazy function is allowed to produce values before you need them
12:29	justin_smith	zxc: it's an implementation detail
12:29	justin_smith	some things chunk, some don't
12:29	zxc	so it produces 32 values and wait till I need 33th?
12:30	justin_smith	,(take 2 (map println (into [] (range 100))))
12:30	clojurebot	(0\n1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6\n7\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\n26\n27\n28\n29\n30\n31\nnil nil)
12:30	zxc	or just not to worry about that and use it as I would use a lazy structure
12:30	Olajyd	zxc : lazy-seq was introduced to make it possible to postpone any computation until data is needed
12:30	justin_smith	zxc: if you don't care about the side effects, it doesn't matter
12:31	justin_smith	zxc: but if you care about side effects, laziness is not the way to manage them
12:31	justin_smith	because chunking
12:31	zxc	it's my second day with clojure, I don't really now
12:31	justin_smith	see the map println example above
12:31	zxc	I've only implemented fizzbuzz
12:31	zxc	justin_smith: looked, thanks
12:32	zxc	and another question - I have this program in haskell and I want to rewrite it in clojure to see the difference
12:32	zxc	but how to measure performance?
12:32	zxc	jvm is so slow to start
12:33	zxc	hello world takes 1.2 sec, my haskell program did all computations in like 3 seconds, so it would be a big difference in time
12:33	noncom	first start the repl, them try (time (your-function))
12:33	noncom	don't take the jvm startup time into account..
12:34	zxc	noncom: so, in repl? thanks a lot!
12:34	zxc	noncom: I just thought I need to fire up jar every time
12:34	noncom	no way!
12:34	noncom	lisps are all about repl
12:34	noncom	get yourself an IDE and work inside it
12:34	noncom	don't work with the bare clojure jar
12:34	zxc	I'm working in spacemacs with cider
12:35	noncom	oh, that's fine
12:35	zxc	and repl in other window
12:35	noncom	also, bear in mind that thanks to jvm jit, your 10th run of a function can take 10 times less! (a little over-generalized and exaggerated example, but just to make the point)
12:36	zxc	and final question - I don't have to know java to use their libraries, right? it's an awful language
12:36	zxc	noncom: I'll write that down in my notebook!
12:36	noncom	well.. java.. it depends on how much and what library you're using.
12:36	noncom	ofcourse you do not have to program java in clojure
12:37	noncom	but some libraries may inforce this or that architecture and stuff
12:37	noncom	but in the end it all boils down to creating objects and calling methods on them...
12:37	noncom	often there are clojure wrappers for many java libraries where it is worth and people took time to make them
12:38	zxc	let's say I want to create a simple game (not a gamedev type of programmer, just for example)
12:38	noncom	okay, so
12:38	zxc	does clojure provide all the important stuff?
12:38	zxc	gui and others?
12:38	noncom	umm, clojure is a language, you'll have to use a game engine of sorts.. which is a library
12:38	noncom	for example, i am using JMonkeyEngine 3
12:38	zxc	"simple" - tic tac toe or something
12:39	noncom	ah, i see
12:39	noncom	take a look at seesaw
12:39	akabander	The seesaw samples include a Conway's Life example that includes a basic GUI
12:40	noncom	google "seesaw gui"
12:40	noncom	seesaw is a swing wrapper
12:40	zxc	and I can use it without months of reading poorly written documentation?
12:41	akabander	That's a pretty subjective question
12:41	akabander	We don't know how fast you read
12:42	zxc	I learn and read pretty fast, I just have bad memories with gui (trying to use library with no documentation and one crappy tutorial)
12:42	noncom	zxc: yes
12:42	zxc	noncom: darn, clojure rocks
12:42	noncom	no, just try seesaw
12:42	zxc	thank you all :)
12:42	hanate_monsta	hello, beautiful clojuristas, question : which is the equivalent to a sparse array in clojure?
12:42	noncom	if anything, ask here. many ppl had some experience with it
12:42	akabander	If you know anything about Swing, seesaw will be easy
12:42	akabander	You could use a map for a sparse array
12:42	zxc	akabander: you mean dancing?
12:43	noncom	and swing is not much different from any other modern gui system in its terms
12:43	noncom	swing is one of java gui systems
12:43	hanate_monsta	akabander: example of thee?
12:43	zxc	oh, I don't know java, it scared me to the bone
12:44	hanate_monsta	zxc: Is so easy to learn, nothing to be scare
12:44	noncom	don't be afraid. just know one thing: java for jvm is like c for metal
12:44	noncom	in clojure you won't have to work with much java anyway (in most cases)
12:44	hanate_monsta	zxc: the thing is is verbose and mudane as oppose to clojure
12:44	akabander	I would use a map and just use the index values for keys.
12:45	hanate_monsta	akabander: Thank you
12:45	zxc	hanate_monsta: I know it's easy, I just want to cry seeing all these classes and privates and inheritances
12:45	akabander	(def sparse-array {})
12:45	akabander	(merge sparse-array { 0 12, 1 13 }
12:45	akabander	)
12:46	akabander	Then you can just do (sparse-array idx) to get the value at idx.
12:46	noncom	zxc: then you're in the same boat as rich hickey - the creator of clojure. he does not like oop either :)
12:46	zxc	noncom: I also look like him, which is funny
12:46	akabander	OOP is a straightjacket -- useful when you have to work with insane people.
12:47	hanate_monsta	noncom: is not that he doesn't like, he is just tired of using it
12:47	noncom	wow :)
12:47	zxc	I think we all have functional souls
12:47	noncom	yeah )
12:48	zxc	and final final question - are there any better error messages? or do I have to get used to them?
12:48	zxc	I get 20 lines or so when I forget to close parens
12:48	hanate_monsta	zxc: But some people like to objectify bodies (specially womans bodies) (o-^)
12:49	fantazo	btw. what is the current hotness in clojure webdev?
12:49	fantazo	still noir and compojure?
12:49	hanate_monsta	I actually like to use immutant
12:49	hanate_monsta	with compojure and ring
12:49	hlship	zxc: io.aviso/pretty exists to clean up the stack traces; part of what it does is hide frames that aren't going to be helpful, such as anything in the clojure.lang package.
12:50	zxc	hanate_monsta: but treating women like objects isn't nice
12:50	hanate_monsta	zxc: I know, never done that.
12:50	hanate_monsta	just saying
12:51	zxc	hlship: and just add this as a package?
12:52	zxc	hanate_monsta: my c++ friend does this all the time, which is also funny
12:52	zxc	hanate_monsta: but enough non-clojure stuff for now!
12:53	hlship	zxc: see the docs; there's an explicit function to call that goes all alter-var-root! on some key clojure.main and clojure.repl functions to hook in better exception reporting.
12:53	hlship	https://portal.aviso.io/#/document/open-source/pretty/Current
12:53	zxc	hlship: thank you, have a great day :)
13:22	Acug	Hello
13:24	justin_smith	zxc: yeah, the error messages really don't get a lot better (though aviso and such can help) - clojure doesn't abstract over the jvm's call stack, which is great for performance but bad for things making any sense when an error happens
13:32	zxc	justin_smith: is it possible to actually read something from this madness after few months or so?
13:33	justin_smith	zxc: sure - it's a call stack, which means that if you go far enough up you'll find either a) your code which invoked this crazy deep stack of calls or b) a mechanism like core.async or some other threaded or async pipeline that runs code for you
13:34	zxc	justin_smith: thank you!
13:34	justin_smith	zxc: complecting factors here is that clojure has little to no defensive code, so call stacks go pretty deep before errors are found usually
13:34	zxc	justin_smith: defensive code?
13:35	justin_smith	zxc: input validation
13:35	justin_smith	pre-conditions
13:35	justin_smith	type checks
13:35	justin_smith	etc.
13:36	zxc	justin_smith: oh, okay. but being dynamic isn't a huge pain, right?
13:38	fantazo	we all just want to have very strict type checks, right? no?
13:39	akabander	<-- does not want unrequested type checks
13:39	zxc	in haskell everything was pure and strict and strongly typed, so I don't know how it is working with dynamic lang
13:41	akabander	Being passed a "wrong" type is typically the result of a logic error... If it's easy to reason about your logic, type errors become harder to commit.
13:42	akabander	But I'm naive, and use maps a lot. If something doesn't have the key I need, I just stop processing it.
13:43	justin_smith	akabander: zxc: yeah, regardless of our value judgments etc. I think the factual statement "there is little to no defensive coding in clojure" is something we can agree on (except for explicit exceptions like core.typed or prismatic/schema of course)
13:44	justin_smith	zxc: original point being that lack of defensive coding means an error gets pretty far down the call stack into internals before being reported. A natural correlary to this of course is that if you code defensively, you can cause the resulting call stack to be shorter and hey you even have the option of providing a sensible message.
13:45	akabander	I feel like I trip over strict type enforcement more often than I screw up due to dynamic persmissiveness. This may be a problem that will go away as I get better with Clojure...
13:45	zxc	justin_smith: okay, thanks for explaining
13:46	rhg135	Too bad preconditions don't let you specify the exception
13:46	akabander	Yeah the explanation is enlightening
13:47	justin_smith	rhg135: asserts do though (assert (OK) "well this time it was not OK")
13:47	akabander	It's not an exception, it's a ValueError, right?
13:47	justin_smith	assertionerror
13:47	akabander	<-- missed it by " much
13:47	rhg135	Yup
13:48	justin_smith	rhg135: something I am fond of nowadays (assert (OK input) (str "input was not OK:" (pr-str input)))
13:48	rhg135	Pres are nice in theory
13:48	justin_smith	the pr-str is useful for disambiguating some types of input data in a way that str alone won't
13:49	rhg135	I see
13:49	pepijndevos	Erm, my Clojurescript code doesn't work with advanced optimisations turned on. Do I need to tell it to not remove certain parts?
13:50	justin_smith	,(print {:a 0 "b" 1 'c 2 'd "3 :a 0"})
13:50	clojurebot	{:a 0, b 1, c 2, d 3 :a 0}
13:50	rhg135	~Externs
13:50	clojurebot	Pardon?
13:50	rhg135	Meh
13:50	justin_smith	^ that print is extremely misleading
13:51	justin_smith	,(print {:a 0 "b" 1 'c 2 'd "3, :a 0, :even worse"})
13:51	clojurebot	{:a 0, b 1, c 2, d 3, :a 0, :even worse}
13:51	akabander	justin_smith: Add a comma in that quoted string and you'll have a winner
13:51	justin_smith	right
13:51	justin_smith	,(prn {:a 0 "b" 1 'c 2 'd "3, :a 0, :even worse"})
13:51	clojurebot	{:a 0, "b" 1, c 2, d "3, :a 0, :even worse"}\n
13:51	justin_smith	pr-str does the same magic as pr / prn
13:57	rhg135	That's great for confusing people
13:59	justin_smith	rhg135: yeah, that's why I use pr-str whenever I print any data
15:14	sdegutis	How long has {:arglists ...} been accepted before any function definitions in `defn`?
15:14	sdegutis	I've never seen this until now. What's the purpose of it? Just for documentation only?
15:14	justin_smith	sdegutis: to get away with filthy lies
15:15	sdegutis	Yes understood, but I meant technically.
15:16	sdegutis	Anyway, I upgraded from Ring 1.2.1 to Ring 1.4.0 and everything's broken.
15:16	justin_smith	it's for things like macros - to give some of them doc strings that make sense
15:16	sdegutis	wrap-reload seems to completely not work at all anymore, my own wrap-error is ignored in favor of Jetty showing its very own exception handler somehow, etc
15:17	justin_smith	sdegutis: the actual number of args a macro gets when invoked internally is greater than the documented arg list, and some macros are "bootstrapped" from normal function definition
15:17	sdegutis	justin_smith: this is in a defn as mentioned, not defmacro
15:18	justin_smith	sdegutis: I'm not telling you why ring is lying, I am describing why it has to be possible for clojure to make sense
15:18	sdegutis	ok
15:18	justin_smith	iirc Bronsa and arrdem had some choice words on the habit of arglist hacking
15:19	Bronsa	hate whoever does that with a passion.
15:19	sdegutis	:)
15:19	sdegutis	TIL Bronsa hates weavejester with a passion https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/commit/3c55e006f816d0e971bf671eede9729137a46329
15:20	sdegutis	but only started hating him on May 18 last year so that's not as bad
15:21	sdegutis	Whoa:
15:21	sdegutis	,(:foo {} :missing)
15:21	clojurebot	:missing
15:21	sdegutis	did not know
15:21	sdegutis	,({} :foo :missing)
15:21	clojurebot	:missing
15:21	sdegutis	haha
15:21	sdegutis	stupid clojure always being way more pragmatic than is necessary
15:27	sdegutis_	back
15:30	{blake}	arglist hacking?
15:30	sdegutis_	Is there a way within an uberjar to find all namespaces matching a given prefix before any of them are loaded?
15:31	sdegutis_	And then load them?
15:39	{blake}	I can't even. Though we do some dynamic namespace loading, it's all external to the JAR being run.
15:40	sdegutis_	oh?
15:40	sdegutis_	how's that?
15:46	sdegutis_	AHA just figured out the reloading issue
15:48	sdegutis_	See, when you have namespace A with (def a [B/foo]) and namespace B with (def b [C/bar]) then it doesn't matter if you (require 'C :reload), because A/a will still be [[C/bar]] with the old version of C/bar, not the new reloaded one.
15:48	sdegutis_	So it turns out my bug is a Clojure namespace issue, right?
15:53	sdegutis_	Clojure is not dynamic and should stop pretending to.
15:59	hiredman	when you don't know where you are, what is around the bend is always a surprise
16:00	sdegutis_	hi hiredman
16:03	sdegutis_	i didnt know u were buddhist
16:08	{blake}	sdegutis_: So...reload A & B, too, right?
16:10	{blake}	It seems like you're asking for EXTREME mutability. In which case, I recommend Smalltalk.
16:12	sdegutis_	{blake}: I found this bug using Ring's wrap-reload middleware which is pretty popular so it's not some obscure wishlist.
16:12	sdegutis_	Clojure's (require foo :reload) is inherently unreliable as of Clojure 1.7
16:12	sdegutis_	It will reload the namespace, but if anyone already held some of its vars, what they now hold is up for grabs.
16:13	sdegutis_	If only Clojure's issue tracker was hosted on Github, I could report this to them and they might be able to fix it. Oh well.
16:14	bendlas	sdegutis_: ring's bug tracker is on github, they will pass it on, if it's actually a language bug
16:15	srruby	I'm puzzled by *1 (yes that is the digit 1). It evaluates to nil in the repl. Anyone know why?
16:15	sdegutis_	bendlas: I've put it there. I doubt they'll pass it on but hope you're right.
16:15	sdegutis_	srruby: it's a fake var that always evaluates to the result of the last entered expression
16:15	srruby	thks
16:15	Bronsa	,#'*1
16:15	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/*1
16:16	Bronsa	srruby: *1 is a clojure.core var that holds the last expression evalauted at the repl
16:16	Bronsa	there's also 2 and 3
16:16	sdegutis_	srruby: *2 is second-to-last etc
16:16	sdegutis_	{blake}: I'm not asking for extreme mutability. Just wishing (require ... :reload) didn't have so many caveats/bugs as to make it unusable.
16:16	Bronsa	and *e holding the last exception
16:16	hiredman	http://clojure.org/repl_and_main#toc3
16:16	sdegutis_	Oh wow I didn't realize *1 was in clojure.core
16:16	sdegutis_	sick
16:17	bendlas	sdegutis_: can you post a test case? vars are supposed to be reload-stable.
16:17	sdegutis_	I can try to make one.
16:18	bendlas	sdegutis_: please do, if your observation is correct, that would be a serious bug
16:19	sdegutis_	will do
16:19	{blake}	Is (require ... :reload) how "lein ring server" reloads detected changes?
16:19	bendlas	sdegutis_: I suspect that the stale thing you end up holding onto isn't actually the var anymore, but an old value that it used to hold
16:20	bendlas	i.e. the result of dereferencing it
16:20	bendlas	e.g. when you start a ring server you usually pass the #'handler var, to make it reloadable
16:21	sdegutis_	bendlas: ah probably yes
16:21	sdegutis_	In my real life usecase, it was a nested set of defroutes
16:21	sdegutis_	Which creates a var to a function, which I then nest by resolving the var in the typical way (foo)
16:23	bendlas	sdegutis_: look out for cases of (let [foo the-var] (fn [_] (foo))), here the fn calls the already dereferenced value
16:24	sdegutis_	Right.
16:33	sdegutis_	So in this case, it's not really a bug.
16:33	sdegutis_	I just need to always write #'foo instead of foo if I ever want dynamic code reloading to work.
16:33	sdegutis_	Right?
16:36	sdegutis_	Makes sense.
16:38	bendlas	sdegutis_: only for higher-order functions, i.e. when you get a function value
16:38	bendlas	for normal var usage like (foo), the var is dereferenced every time, implicitly
16:38	sdegutis_	Why not also for data like vectors?
16:38	sdegutis_	Um..
16:38	sdegutis_	So only in defroutes then?
16:39	sdegutis_	Compojure is so stupid, I should just make the jump to Silk or Bidi now and get it over with.
16:39	bendlas	not even there for most cases
16:39	bendlas	hm, cgrand's moustache is also pretty cool
16:40	sdegutis_	I don't remember much about it except that when I compared it with the others a year ago it seemed like a terrible option.
16:42	bendlas	sdegutis_: I like it, because it facilitates writing small, focussed handler fns + it has a syntax slot for middleware
16:43	sdegutis_	I prefer lists of routes like [request-type route-string handler-fn] and to just use string comparison to find a match.
16:44	sdegutis_	This option much more sense to me.
16:44	spieden-	+1 bidi last i looked
16:51	sdegutis_	lazybot: wake up
16:51	sdegutis_	no, dont do this.. wake up.. you're just sleeping lazybot
16:51	sdegutis_	you're just sleeping. its gonna be alright. everythings gonna be alright, just open your eyes, wake up
16:52	sdegutis_	please, please just wake up lazybot? please?
16:54	DomKM	sdegutis_: Both Silk and Bidi are great options. I'm happy to help with any questions you might have about Silk.
16:54	sdegutis_	DomKM: which one did you make? i forget
16:54	sdegutis_	oh sorry
16:54	DomKM	Silk
16:54	sdegutis_	silk. right.
16:57	sdegutis_	DomKM: I gave my feedback a while ago https://github.com/DomKM/silk/issues/14
16:57	sdegutis_	DomKM: In the end I ended up with Bidi because I couldn't really figure out how to use Silk from the readme
16:57	sdegutis_	But basically they seemed like nearly identical projects.
17:01	DomKM	sdegutis_: I agree with your complaint about the readme. The issue is still open and unresolved. I just haven't had time to do it and haven't prioritized it because I am rewriting most of Silk. If you're interested, you can follow along in the `fsm` branch.
17:01	sdegutis_	DomKM: not really but thanks for the offer
17:01	sdegutis_	im not opposed, just no compelling reason anymore since bidi works fine
17:03	DomKM	sdegutis_: In terms of differentiation, Silk used to be the only routing library that was compatible with both Clojure and ClojureScript. Now that Bidi supports ClojureScript, you're right that they are very similar. I think the next version of Silk will provide a very compelling reason to choose it but for now I think that your assessment is correct.
17:03	sdegutis_	DomKM: dont just tease, what will be compelling about it?
17:04	DomKM	heh
17:06	spieden	fsm.. it's a finite state machine!?
17:07	DomKM	sdegutis_: Yeah. I ported Automat (https://github.com/ztellman/automat) to ClojureScript. I'm using it, instead of regexes, for matching. It is far more composable and way faster.
17:07	spieden	sweet
17:08	DomKM	sdegutis_: Got a meeting now. Be back soon.
17:08	sdegutis_	oh man
17:08	sdegutis_	all these puns
17:08	sdegutis_	its 2 much 4 me
17:08	sdegutis_	Automat
17:08	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
17:08	spieden	except for some little ones sprinked into productions for the character classes
17:08	sdegutis_	he should have named it "Pun A".
17:08	sdegutis_	the next guy to name a library something with a pun should name it "Pun B"
17:08	sdegutis_	thatll save us all some time
17:09	sdegutis_	or Untitled
17:09	sdegutis_	and Untitled 1
17:09	sdegutis_	etc
17:11	justin_smith	sdegutis_: I think we should outsource this request, I know a good contracting company in Punjab
17:11	sdegutis_	oh man
17:11	sdegutis_	my side
17:11	sdegutis_	it hurts
17:11	sdegutis_	from the cancer
17:11	sdegutis_	not from laughing dont get me wrong
17:11	sdegutis_	jk i dont have cancer yet
17:13	justin_smith	RIP in peace sed utils
17:15	t0by	IANAD but you may have cancer of the sense of humor.
17:15	t0by	It's a serious condition.
17:16	bendlas	cool puns, you've got there, people. would be bad if something came to parse with them.
17:28	sdegutis_	justin_smith: finally someone says my name right
17:28	sdegutis_	the g is for gnu
17:28	sdegutis_	and the gnu is for ngnu which is short for "not gnu because gnu sucks" - its a backronym
17:28	sdegutis_	srlsy tho stallman should be fired
17:31	justin_smith	sdegutis_: Mallory Ortberg suggests that the best way to deal with trolls is to address them as Steven.
17:31	justin_smith	sdegutis_: she reports that calling them Stephen also works.
17:31	sdegutis_	nobody knows who this lady you made up is go home troll 2/10
17:32	sdegutis_	am i doing a good Bronsa impersonation?
17:33	justin_smith	sdegutis_: https://twitter.com/mallelis/status/634077312854720513
17:34	sdegutis_	wow she knows her stuff
17:34	sdegutis_	whoa
17:34	sdegutis_	You are blocked from following @mallelis and viewing @mallelis's Tweets. Learn more
17:35	sdegutis_	so im guessing this mallory lady doesnt support peoples rights to sexually identify as attack helicopters?
17:35	sdegutis_	cant see any other reason id be "blocked"
17:53	sdegutis_	lazybot: wake up this isnt funny
17:53	sdegutis_	lazybot: dont, just dont, stop pretending, you're just sleeping i know it I KNOW IT
18:05	Or1Equals1--	How is everyone doing today?
18:10	spieden	good you?
18:13	rhg135	lazybot is dead mate, just let him go
18:20	sdegutis_	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.com
18:20	spieden	it can't be. must be live lock
18:21	sdegutis_	ugh https://github.com/weavejester/clj-aws-s3/issues/83
18:21	sdegutis_	ugh ugh ugh
18:30	gfrederi`	sdegutis_: have you done `lein clean`?
18:30	sdegutis_	yes
18:31	gfrederi`	I would add more information to the ticket if you want to get help with it
18:32	sdegutis_	I added lots more.
18:32	sdegutis_	Just now.
18:43	rhg135	huh the title is quite long
18:47	sdegutis_	yeah its got all those more information
18:48	sdegutis_	Shortened it.
18:55	sdegutis_	whoa
18:55	sdegutis_	what the heck, you cant even do (import com.amazonaws.ClientConfiguration) now?
18:55	sdegutis_	this just started happening.
18:55	sdegutis_	todya.
18:56	{blake}	Is it possible to force a lazy-seq to realize item by item (rather than in chunks of 32)?
18:56	sdegutis_	why?
18:56	clojurebot	why not?
18:56	sdegutis_	,(import com.amazonaws.ClientConfiguration)
18:56	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "com.amazonaws.ClientConfiguration"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassNotFoundException\n :message "com.amazonaws.ClientConfiguration"\n :at [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]}]\n :trace\n [[java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]\n [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 355]\n [java.security.AccessController doPrivileged ...
18:57	justin_smith	{blake}: if you google for "unchunk" you'll find the magic. Then you should ask yourself why you are relying on lazy results for side effects and probably stop doing that.
18:57	{blake}	Reazlizing the chunk creates an error--I'm reading a database--and I can't figure out which database record is actually causing the problem.
18:57	justin_smith	yeah, there are various versions of unchunk out there, all the ones I have tried work
18:57	justin_smith	maybe someone has one in a util lib
18:58	{blake}	justin_smith: It's Monger. I'm not...doing any of that stuff you say. =P
19:00	justin_smith	{blake}: sorry, I was being a bit glib. Unchunk will prevent the chunking related problems. So would passing (take N input) to monger instead of your input
19:00	justin_smith	unless this problem is internal to monger -in which case, fork mongo?
19:00	justin_smith	*monger that is
19:01	{blake}	justin_smith: It's internal to mongo, comes from the Java driver, and I'm not sure if you mean "fork" euphemistically or literally.
19:01	justin_smith	well, change its internals, right?
19:01	justin_smith	because you can't make its input not chunk from the outside...
19:02	{blake}	justin_smith: Grrr. Yeah.
19:08	{blake}	Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm realizing a sequence of records and one record in a chunk causes an exception, and this isn't in my code, I really can't handle that exception at all, right? I mean, not in the sense of skipping that problematic record and moving on.
19:09	justin_smith	not really, I don't think so
19:10	{blake}	So that's a legitimate issue with monger. And something to be avoided if you're writing your own library.
19:10	justin_smith	I guess so - is this like a corrupt record or something?
19:13	{blake}	justin_smith: I =think= so. I don't know what else it could be. And I'm not the only one to run into it. But I can't locate it. I've heard one suggestion it was just missing data, but that shouldn't be an issue.
19:21	WickedShell	I'm slowly leaking memory that leads to an eventual crash, and every GC the metaspace grows in size (JDK 1.8.0_20) I'm having trouble tracking down what is causing the leak. Does anyone have a good tutorial for finding these/looking through a heap dump? I can't figure out how to trace the char[] byte[]'s etc to where they are created
19:22	Bronsa	WickedShell: what clojure version are you using out of curiosity?
19:22	WickedShell	1.7
19:22	{blake}	OK, I think I just need to use find instead of find-map. Which I guess is a "duh".
19:22	WickedShell	No, wait 1.6.... Not sure why actually
19:23	Bronsa	WickedShell: ok, just asking because there are suspicions of a memory leak introduced with one of the new 1.8 alphas
19:32	WickedShell	I think I could trace it through the current heap dumps I'm getting if I could figure out how to trace allocations back to my code/see what causes objects to be allocated, but I can't figure out how to do that
19:37	amalloy	i don't think heap dumps have that information unless you have a profiler attached and enable allocation profiling
19:54	sdegutis_	,(import '[com.amazonaws ClientConfiguration])
19:54	sdegutis_	what am i doing wrong
19:54	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "com.amazonaws.ClientConfiguration"\n :via\n [{:type java.lang.ClassNotFoundException\n :message "com.amazonaws.ClientConfiguration"\n :at [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]}]\n :trace\n [[java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 366]\n [java.net.URLClassLoader$1 run "URLClassLoader.java" 355]\n [java.security.AccessController doPrivileged ...
19:57	justin_smith	sdegutis_: well for starters that jar isn't on the classpath for clojurebot
19:58	justin_smith	sdegutis_: mv ~/.m2 ~/.old-m2 effectively does the same thing, but it easier to undo if it didn't help
19:58	justin_smith	unless your network is super fast, or you like watching jars download
19:58	sdegutis_	75mbps or something
19:58	sdegutis_	so meh
19:59	sdegutis_	still downloading....
19:59	justin_smith	it's the magic behind tab-completion in the repl
19:59	justin_smith	usually some plugin for nrepl pulls it in
19:59	sdegutis_	oh
19:59	sdegutis_	reply
19:59	sdegutis_	thanks trptcolin
20:00	sdegutis_	wherever u be
20:00	sdegutis_	yep i can officially no longer use clj-aws-s3
20:00	sdegutis_	:'(
20:00	sdegutis_	something is major broken
20:00	sdegutis_	cant figure out where or what
20:01	justin_smith	any snapshots?
20:01	justin_smith	any major plugin version changes?
20:01	justin_smith	or just plain dep changes? because without those things shouldn't be different
20:03	sdegutis_	shoooooot
20:04	sdegutis_	it was the datomic upgrade.
20:04	sdegutis_	just confirmed.
20:04	sdegutis_	using the latest datomic peer client clojure lib breaks amazon's s3 jar completely
20:05	sdegutis_	i had no suspicion datomic was using s3, should have known
20:05	justin_smith	oh, incompatible versions?
20:08	sdegutis_	no clue
20:08	sdegutis_	ill try excluding their version or something
20:37	sdegutis_	phew fixed. just had to downgrade to weavejester's older version of clj-aws-s3