#clojure – 2015-06-28

2015-06-28

07:05	mmeix	just found https://atom.io ... looks interesting. Unfortunately can't get the nrepl package to do anything so far ...( https://atom.io/packages/nrepl ) - anyone tried this?
07:11	kwladyka	mmeix, light table could be also great but it looks like author abandon this project? who know what will happen with atom.io... i don't like immature projects anymore :)
07:24	mmeix	Light Table I'm just using now
07:34	ifies	Hello #clojure! I'm trying to insert something into a vector at a certain position. I want to transform [\a \c] into [\a \b \c]. I'm trying with (assoc [\a \c] 1 \b), but that only 'changes' the \c into a \b (returning [\a \b]). In Javascript I would (have to) write something like `myArr = ['a', 'c'] ; myArr.splice(1,0,'b') ; return myArr;`. Is it not possible to to this in a Clojure vector?
07:51	rritoch	ifies: There are many ways of doing it, one way which isn't too painful is (reduce into [(subvec myvec 0 idx) [invalue] (subvec myvec idx)])
07:52	rritoch	ifies: Where myvec is the starting vector, invalue is what your trying to insert, and idx is where you want to insert at.
07:55	profil	is it possible to merge two core.async channels' output and input? I want to combine the input from channel 1 with the output from channel 2. If I take from my combined channel, it should take from channel 1, and if I put it should put to channel 2.
07:56	profil	Does this exist or do I have to use reify to get what I want?
08:06	kwladyka	https://www.refheap.com/104534 <- which function should i use to solve that?
08:06	kwladyka	in most elegant way :)
08:08	rritoch	profil: How is that any different than pipe? I think I just misunderstand your question.
08:09	rritoch	profil: http://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async/pipe
08:12	profil	rritoch: Internally I have read-ch and write-ch. read-ch is written to when data is incoming on a websocket connection, write-ch is used to send data over the websocket. I want to combine read-ch and write-ch into ch so that when i do (<! ch) it runs (<! read-ch) and when I do (>! ch) it runs (>! write-ch)
08:15	profil	rritoch: I am thinking about solving it like this, https://www.refheap.com/104535
08:15	profil	ops, it should be a WritePort in there aswell
08:17	rritoch	profil: You know, that is a difficult challenge in any language. I think your going to end up using reify because you need your socket using one API, and your socket user using a different API. At least that's how I've solved it in other languages. Like users call read/write but the socket listener/writer calls readLow/writeLow
08:32	profil	rritoch: I did it like this, https://www.refheap.com/104536
08:32	profil	just need to test it :)
08:35	rritoch	Anyhow, I'm heading out, I just wanted to let clojure dev's know that the Java docs are apparently not so accurate. >> https://github.com/openjdk-mirror/jdk/blob/jdk7/jdk7/master/src/share/classes/java/lang/Double.java#L507-L522 Last I saw clojure source it was using valueOf boxing for optimization purposes, but it turns out that the optimization claimed by the documentation doesn't exist
08:35	rritoch	At least not in openjdk.
08:36	rritoch	It was recently pointed out to me when someone asked why I was using the valueOf method.
08:36	Bronsa	rritoch: the documentation doesn't guarantee the optimization to exist
08:37	rritoch	Bronsa: Sure, but it's VERY misleading, since calling the constructor directly should technically be faster on any implementation that doesn't have it optimized.
08:39	rritoch	Bronsa: It should at least have a cache of 0.0 since it is the most common value... anyhow. It doesn't, so optimizing based on the documentation seems to be futile.
08:40	rritoch	I've been running into similar issues with tomcat, where the documentation says one thing, and the code does something completely different.
08:41	Bronsa	rritoch: http://code.metager.de/source/xref/openjdk/jdk8/hotspot/src/share/vm/ci/ciMethod.cpp#1305
08:45	Bronsa	rritoch: so it might not be cached but it seems to be used for certain unboxing optimizations
08:47	ifies	rritoch: Thank you! That is just what I needed. I didn't know the subvec function, thanks for showing me! Imho the code you wrote should be in clojure.core...
08:47	Bronsa	rritoch: hotspot will take care of inlining the /valueOf method call when necessary anyway so there's really no point in thinking about it
08:47	rritoch	ifies: lol, thanks. Been down that route before though, I'd rather pull out my own teeth with pliers than make another code submission to clojure.
08:49	rritoch	Bronsa: Well it is certainly interesting. I've run into many cases where opimizing large amounts of doubles is important, such as video processing.
08:55	drwin	dnolen: FYI playing with cljs-bootstrap to give me ASTs for arbitrary files, want to use it in my experimental structural cljs editor: https://github.com/darwin/quark/blob/master/cljs/src/base/quark/cogs/editor/analyzer.cljs
08:56	drwin	looking forward to have some equivalent of 'analyze-file', right now it gives me only very basic ASTs, no requires work for me
08:56	dnolen	drwin: cool!
08:57	rritoch	Bronsa: My big question thats unanswerd regarding array optimization and isn't really documented as far as I can tell is how much memory does an object pointer use in a typical implementation. If the object pointer is 64 bits, and your cached double is 64 bits, than the object pointer and the native value use the same amount of ram so there's really no potential for optimization via caching values
08:57	dnolen	drwin: not sure about supplying analyze-file as it will look differently everywhere
08:57	dnolen	io, file resolution, etc. there not a good way to make this work consistently across all JS targets
08:58	dnolen	and I'm not really interested in it myself.
08:58	dnolen	since once you have a bootstrapped thing you can go sort it out on your own.
08:58	rritoch	Bronsa: But if the underlying system is using 32 bit object pointers, than caching double objects in an array should use less ram.
08:58	drwin	dnolen: I'm happy to reimplement it for my editor-use-case, just wanted to ask if analyzer can work if I implement it, I'm not fully aware of the state of analyzing in cljs
08:59	dnolen	drwin: what do you mean "state of analyzing in cljs"?
09:00	TMA	rritoch: sun-jdk has X-bit object pointers in their X-bit versions. I assume openjdk and other JVMs do the same
09:01	drwin	I understand that you are in the process of adapting compiler infrastructure to be bootstrapped in js, my code will be cljs-only, so I need to analyzer to work without clojure. I'm not sure if it is possible at this point
09:02	drwin	I could rewrite analyze-file and friends (dependency resolution using nodejs fs apis, etc.), but I'm not sure if don't hit wall because some parts of clojurescript analyzer are not yet ported to cljs
09:02	TMA	rritoch: as a rule of thumb: a 64-bit JVM instance takes approximately double the amount of RAM for the same program as the 32-bit ones
09:03	drwin	I'm not interested in emitting at this point, just analyze
09:04	dnolen	drwin: bootstrapping isn't involving changing anything about the analyzer and the compiler
09:04	dnolen	it is the exact same compiler, exact same analyzer
09:04	dnolen	drwin: everything works
09:04	rritoch	TMA: Thanks. That is very helpful, it implies that caching is only useful when the amount of cached data > architecture size, so caching complex numbers or Big* numbers would save ram, but anything smaller than architecture size is better as native values.
09:04	dnolen	the only place things get tricky are the bits that need I/O
09:04	Bronsa	dnolen: cljs-bootstrap -- no need for your t.r fork. the CLJS-1303 branch in t.r should work
09:05	dnolen	analyzing dependencies right now, loading files
09:06	drwin	dnolen: ok, I'm happy to hear, so in theory if I dive into it I could be able to get ASTs from any cljs file
09:06	dnolen	drwin: my test case is analyzing the entire standard library
09:06	dnolen	so that better work :)
09:07	dnolen	Bronsa: noted, I couldn't remember which branch it was
09:08	drwin	dnolen: when I eval more complex code I'm getting: "Cannot use 'in' operator to search for 'defn' in null", didn't investigate it yet, will have to first try to understand how namespaces are resolved and recorded in the compiler env
09:10	dnolen	drwin: right the way you have to deal w/ macros at the moment is a bit manual not generalized
09:10	dnolen	I would hold off unless you're brave enough to dig into how the analyzer/compiler works and how the bootstrapped thing has to be different accordingly in certain areas.
09:13	drwin	should I store their defs in related.namespace.name$macros? I saw some new switch logic
09:13	drwin	I have to start somewhere, I'm gonna try, in the worst case I'll just fail :)
09:16	dnolen	drwin: yes we rewrite macro namespaces so that macro nses and runtime nses can appear to reuse symbol names.
09:25	rritoch	Is it possible to disable the clojure security manager? Unlocking some of the final values in clojure's core via reflection would be a way that I could run clojure customizations without needing to run an actual fork of clojure.
09:27	rritoch	Alternativly I was thinking of just loading clojure with a custom classloader that strips all finals which would open up unlimited customization potential, but for my purposes right now just unlocking finals would be enough.
09:28	Bronsa	rritoch: what is clojure's security manager?
09:32	mmeix	(not to disturb the high-level discussion: do we have a bot in #clojure-beginners, for demonstration purposes? like this:
09:32	mmeix	, (filter even? (range 7))
09:32	clojurebot	(0 2 4 6)
09:33	mmeix	(maybe with another start symbol?)
09:33	rritoch	Bronsa: I honestly don't know, I haven't dug that far into the issue. I just know that clojure's security manager yells at me if I try to access finals.
09:33	ImportanJoe	,((comp (partial apply +) reverse (partial filter even?)) (range 7))
09:33	clojurebot	12
09:35	rritoch	Bronsa: Nevermind. I guess I was just doing it wrong
09:36	ImportanJoe	,((comp (partial apply + reverse filter even?) (range 7))
09:36	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
09:36	ImportanJoe	,(comp (partial apply + reverse filter even?) (range 7))
09:36	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$comp$fn__4493 0x660bbc9a "clojure.core$comp$fn__4493@660bbc9a"]
09:36	rritoch	Bronsa: THis worked... (let [x (.getDeclaredField String "value") y "foo"] (.setAccessible x true) (.set x y (.get x "bar")) y) so I just need to be more careful with the types when accessing finals.
09:52	rritoch	Bronsa: Actually, I was able to fire the security manager
09:53	rritoch	Bronsa: With (let [x (.getDeclaredField clojure.lang.Namespace "namespaces") y (java.util.concurrent.ConcurrentHashMap.) (.setAccessible x true) (.set x nil y))
09:54	rritoch	Bronsa: There was a ] after the ConcurrentHashMap.)
09:55	rritoch	Bronsa: But I think this may still be a typing issue, since I didn't create a ConcurrentHashMap<Symbol, Namespace> but I only created a regular ConcurrentHashMap
09:59	rritoch	Bronsa: That one literal "final" in that one file is the only reason I stopped using clojure. If I can't isolate namespaces in a way that's compatible with OSGI, I can't use clojure.
10:00	rritoch	Clojure is going to have lots of fun with Java 9 which is likely to include OSGI features.
10:07	rritoch	But then again, maven is probably going to have equal troubles when people have dependencies provided by modules. I haven't yet tried the new features because the documentation is sparce, but I'm fairly sure java 9 is going to break half my libraries.
10:07	rritoch	sparce=sparse
11:08	sharms	If I am destructuring a map, is there a form which lets me add a prefix to those keys? ex { :mfg "something" :version "1" } - I want to do a let [{:keys [:mfg :version]} something] and instead of mfg, I want to alter it to say something/mfg
11:09	justin_smith	sharms: don't use :keys then
11:09	sharms	well there are like 12 fields, so I dont want just a giant let statement
11:09	justin_smith	,(let [{some-a :a some-b :b} {:a 0 :b 1}] some-b)
11:09	clojurebot	1
11:09	justin_smith	also, you can't create a binding in a let that has a / in the middle
11:10	sharms	they would all be keywords like :newprefix/mapkey
11:10	sharms	I am just trying to insert a map into datomic with the proper namespace
11:10	justin_smith	,(let [{:keys [a]} {:whatever/a 0}] a)
11:10	clojurebot	nil
11:10	justin_smith	hmm
11:10	clojurebot	Excuse me?
11:10	crocket	hi
11:11	justin_smith	,(let [{:keys [whatever/a]} {:whatever/a 0}] a)
11:11	clojurebot	0
11:11	crocket	If a transaction refers to a ref named 'hobbit', does the transaction obtain the snapshot of hobbit as of the start of transaction or the first read of hobbit in the transaction?
11:12	sharms	at the end of that statement, 'a', I want :newprefix/a to be that
11:12	justin_smith	sharms: so you want to generate a new keyword, not bind the keyword's value?
11:12	sharms	I want the value which was in the map bound to it
11:13	justin_smith	you can't bind values to keywords, closest you can get is use them as keys with the val attached
11:13	sharms	(defn add-hardware [hardware]
11:13	sharms	@ (d/transact conn [{:db/id (d/tempid :db.part/user)
11:13	sharms	:hardware/mfg (:mfg hardware)
11:13	sharms	:hardware/model (:model hardware)
11:13	sharms	:hardware/version (:version hardware)}]))
11:13	sharms	that is basically what I am trying to do
11:13	justin_smith	sharms: don't do that
11:13	justin_smith	use a pastebin
11:14	crocket	justin_smith, ^^
11:14	sharms	but hardware has like 12+ fields, so I didnt know if there was an easy way to remap it all to :hardware
11:14	justin_smith	sharms: OK, this has nothing at all to do with destructuring then, you just want to rename a bunch of keywords in a hashmap
11:15	mmeix	couldn't you use something like {:hardware {:model ... :version ...}} ?
11:15	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(keyword "hardware" (name k)) v]) {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2})
11:15	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
11:15	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(keyword "hardware" (name k)) v]) {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2}))
11:15	clojurebot	{:hardware/a 0, :hardware/b 1, :hardware/c 2}
11:15	crocket	What is the read point of a transaction?
11:16	crocket	documentation at Clojure.org states "All reads of Refs will see a consistent snapshot of the ‘Ref world’ as of the starting point of the transaction (its ‘read point’)."
11:16	justin_smith	^^ sharms that's what you want (probably with a select-keys then merge)
11:16	justin_smith	crocket: the transaction locks the refs
11:16	sharms	mmeix - tried that and it only has the keywords present, but nothing bound to them
11:16	justin_smith	crocket: other parts of your code have to wait until the transaction is done
11:16	crocket	at the start of a transaction? or at the first read of a ref in a transaction?
11:17	sharms	justin_smith: thanks I will give that a shot
11:17	crocket	I want to know when a ref is locked in a ref.
11:17	crocket	at the start of a transaction or at the first read of a transaction.
11:17	justin_smith	crocket: the transaction locks all refs and agents that it accesses
11:17	justin_smith	at the start
11:18	justin_smith	crocket: the compiler makes a note of all refs and agents that are accessed when compiling the transaction form
11:18	crocket	If a transaction locks all refs and agents in the beginning in advance, it means the transaction knows which refs and agents it accesses in advance. Right?
11:18	crocket	Very cool
11:18	justin_smith	right, because it compiles the form
11:18	justin_smith	clojure is not an interpreted language (though you can fake it with things like trampoline)
11:19	crocket	Thanks
11:20	sharms	justin_smith: that did work thanks, that really helped with respect to understanding destructuring vs manipulation of a map
11:21	crocket	Is it ok to apply commute and then alter to a ref in a transaction?
11:22	crocket	Will it lead to infinite retries?
11:22	justin_smith	oh, wait - do transactions lock or retry?
11:23	justin_smith	crocket: I was wrong http://clojure.org/refs#Refs%20and%20Transactions this is the real info
11:24	crocket	??
11:24	clojurebot	? is suddenly
11:25	crocket	ok
11:25	justin_smith	crocket: transactions do not lock, they retry, it doesn't matter how many alterations or commutes are inside your transaction, the retry happens iff any of those refs changed outside the transaction while you were working
11:25	crocket	If I apply commute and then alter to a ref in a transaction, I encounter an exception.
11:25	justin_smith	crocket: interesting, you should be able to do both
11:25	crocket	I can't alter a ref after applying commute to a ref.
11:26	crocket	Clojure programming says "The unique semantic of alter is that, when the transaction is to be committed, the value of the ref outside of the transaction must be the same as it was prior to the first in-transaction application of alter. Otherwise, the transaction is restarted from the beginning with the new observed values of the refs involved."
11:27	crocket	Thus, commute should be able to break alter...
11:28	justin_smith	crocket: when the transaction is commited
11:28	justin_smith	if both are inside the transaction, the commit hasn't happened yet
11:29	crocket	I think "clojure programming" got it wrong.
11:29	justin_smith	crocket: no, it's correct. It's talking about inside the transaction vs. outside, both modification happen inside the transaction, that should work
11:30	crocket	justin_smith, Anyway, I can't alter after commute.
11:30	crocket	Alter wants to be the first one to alter a ref.
11:31	crocket	If you apply alter, commute, and alter in the exact same order to a ref, you encounter an exception.
11:31	crocket	"can't set after commute"
11:32	crocket	can't alter after commute
11:34	justin_smith	interesting, yeah, commute does something weird there...
11:34	justin_smith	but that's not because of the out-of-transaction value changing
11:35	crocket	justin_smith, Are you sure the value of every ref is snapshot at the start of a transaction?
11:35	justin_smith	crocket: absolutely, that's what drives retries
11:36	crocket	ok...
11:39	justin_smith	crocket: it compiles the transaction form, captures the values of all refs accessed, then runs the transaction (but none of its changes are visible outside the transaction yet). If none of the refs changed in value in the meantime, all the changes to the refs are applied atomically
11:39	crocket	justin_smith, http://ibin.co/26o26cO39gvZ fooled me.
11:39	crocket	In the figure, t2 reads the value of a ref in the middle.
11:40	justin_smith	crocket: yes, and that a1 != a2 shows the retry condition being calculated
11:41	justin_smith	crocket: t2 is not reading, it is changing a2
11:41	crocket	The figure makes it sound as if there would be no conflict if t1 read a after t2 commited.
11:41	crocket	The figure makes it sound as if there would be no conflict if t1 read 'a' after t2 commited.
11:41	justin_smith	t1 does all its reads at once (at the start)
11:41	crocket	So does t2?
11:42	crocket	It seems the author fooled a lot of people.
11:42	justin_smith	right, but t2 started and completed it's alteration of a while t1 was still running
11:42	justin_smith	which means t1 retries
11:44	justin_smith	crocket: the official answer to the issue about commute https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/clojure/NGiWsqheUjo/9lWI-JBqXo8J
12:05	crocket	going home
13:01	jonathanj	what is the return value of schema.coerce/coercer when there is a coercion/validation failure?
13:02	jonathanj	apparently it's some value of type `schema.utils.ErrorContainer` but there's nothing that describes how to deal with this, apparently?
13:23	justin_smith	jonathanj: my instinct would be to check for and handle that type, but maybe there is something more official
14:05	nano-	Is it possible to configure ring to do http2?
14:07	justin_smith	nano-: ring is a protocol that various http servers are extended to support, your best bet would be to find out what java / jvm http server supports http2, then look for a ring adapter for that server
14:07	nano-	Oh, thought ring was a jetty wrapper. I guess I have some reading to do.
14:08	justin_smith	nano-: well it's a "wrapper" for any http server on the jvm - it's a protocol that makes http servers more convenient to use from clojure
14:08	nano-	cool, thanks for clearing it out.
17:19	Reefersleep	Hello everyone
17:20	Reefersleep	I'm trying to get vim-fireplace working with ClojureScript
17:20	Reefersleep	I've started a lein repl in my project root, I've :Connect'ed to it, I've lein figwheel dev from root, and then, when I do :Piggieback, I get
17:20	Reefersleep	ClassNotFoundException cemerick.piggieback java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run
17:21	Reefersleep	I've included piggieback and nrepl from my project.clj as per the instructions at the piggieback github repo
17:21	Reefersleep	So I can't really figure out what I'm doing wrong :/
17:21	Reefersleep	I've tried :Piggieback [7888] (the port for my figwheel nrepl) and gotten the same message
17:21	Reefersleep	So I figure something's wrong with my piggieback dependency
17:21	Reefersleep	but I can't figure out how to clean it
17:23	currentoor	Has any one here used Datascript on the server?
17:25	DomKM	currentoor: Try asking here https://gitter.im/tonsky/datascript
17:26	currentoor	Thanks!
17:40	Reefersleep	I think I cleaned it properly just with lein clean
17:40	Reefersleep	But now I'm having trouble with the :Piggieback invocation
17:40	Reefersleep	I don't understand the doc - what are you supposed to write after :Piggieback ?
17:46	lodin_	I noticed that with-meta forces evaluation of the head of a LazySeq.
17:46	lodin_	,(let [c (atom 0) _ (with-meta (map (fn [_] (swap! c inc)) (range 100)) {})] @c)
17:46	clojurebot	32
17:47	lodin_	Is that strictly necessary?
17:48	gfredericks	I think so
17:49	gfredericks	I mean not strictly no
17:49	gfredericks	but I think the alternative would add a bunch of checks somewhere
17:49	justin_smith	lodin_: what if (range) were empty? you can't put meta on nil
17:49	gfredericks	,(range 0)
17:49	clojurebot	()
17:49	gfredericks	justin_smith: I don't think that's an issue
17:49	justin_smith	oh, right
17:49	gfredericks	I'm trying to remember what the real issue is
17:49	gfredericks	oh right
17:50	lodin_	I looked at the source, and seq() is called, but at least superficially it seems like you could create a new LazySeq that has meta != null.
17:50	gfredericks	it's that forcing a lazy seq is a coordinated effort
17:50	gfredericks	you don't want to have two LazySeq objects holding the same thunk
17:50	gfredericks	because then they would have to coordinate about who gets to force it
17:51	gfredericks	so the behavior you're seeing is in service of keeping one LazySeq per thunk-fn
17:51	lodin_	gfredericks: Ah. I think I understand what you mean.
17:52	gfredericks	which is probably good otherwise every single dang step of realizing a lazy seq would involve making sure nobody else is in the middle of realizing it
17:53	gfredericks	you might be able to come up with a high-perf solution to the problem but it would probably be more complex than the current impl
17:56	Reefersleep	I tried to follow the guide here: http://ofnir.net/posts/make-the-figwheel-repl-work-in-vim-fireplace.html
17:57	Reefersleep	But then, when I do the :Piggieback part, I get
17:57	Reefersleep	CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: figwheel-sidecar.repl-api, compiling:(/private/ var/folders/h0/7srrpf416l57gzg3hx9w879c0000gn/T/form-init4543993028774803874.clj:1:83)
17:57	Reefersleep	:/? Anyone got any ideas?
17:58	Reefersleep	But then, when I do the :Piggieback part, I get
17:58	Reefersleep	oh sorry :)
17:59	lodin_	gfredericks: Btw, have you done any more work on stateless random numbers?
18:03	gfredericks	I integrated the thing into test.check; now I'm mostly just thinking about other test.check stuff
18:03	gfredericks	I think the randomness part works as well as it's likely going to
18:04	gfredericks	I guess it could get moved to a standalone library
18:04	gfredericks	which would entail better API design
18:10	lodin_	gfredericks: I saw that you made four a couple of years ago, but no plans on updating it then I guess?
18:11	lodin_	I wrote my own lib that is very similar to four a while back, before I found four, because I really don't like "uncontrolled" randomness. :-)
18:13	gfredericks	hmm
18:14	gfredericks	four was definitely trying to include the immutable RNG thing, but also functions mirroring clojure's random functions but with more control
18:14	nooga	Anyone used ztellman/gloss? I'm having small problems with it and the doc/src doesn't help :C
18:16	gfredericks	lodin_: there's a jira ticket around the latter problem, and I'm imagining maybe a contrib library for the immutable stuff
18:44	nooga	amalloy_: got a minute?
21:19	TEttinger	gfredericks: I'm curious about a better random lib for clojure too
21:21	gfredericks	TEttinger: mutable or immutable?
21:22	TEttinger	hm.
21:22	TEttinger	with immutable, you would need to pass state around, right?
21:23	gfredericks	generally yeah
21:23	TEttinger	I can see that being good too...
21:23	gfredericks	doesn't have to be a full state monad though if your generator is splittable
21:24	gfredericks	and I'd say immutability isn't worth much otherwise
21:24	TEttinger	I've written or copied several RNGs in a java game lib I intend to use eventually
21:25	TEttinger	(like an RNG that will start generating higher results if it "rolls low" repeatedly)
21:26	gfredericks	oh so funny distributions
21:26	TEttinger	yes
21:26	TEttinger	they only get funny once a threshold is reached
21:34	gfredericks	a bit like a 1-bit-generator than never returns the same result more than seven times in a row
21:36	gfredericks	I guess it's more than a funny distribution, since the successive results are independent
22:05	tomjack	really?
22:08	tomjack	I imagine taking (repeatedly #(< (rand) 0.5)) and going left-to-right, not'ing an element when all the previous k generated elements match it
22:09	tomjack	then (nth xs i) and (nth xs (inc i)) are independent?
22:09	TEttinger	you would need to realize it to find what was before, right?
22:09	TEttinger	or retain head or whatever the term is?
22:12	tomjack	just trying to see if I understand the claim "the successive results are independent"
22:38	gfredericks	tomjack: oh maybe I typo'd that and meant "aren't"
22:39	gfredericks	sorry for the confusion :(
22:39	gfredericks	s/maybe/definitely/
23:16	l34ch	anyone working on any interesting open source projects?