#clojure – 2015-06-15

2015-06-15

01:25	skelternet	this journey with clojurescript, oauth2, google, compojure, ring, friend and transit has been a long hard slog.
01:36	TEttinger	skelternet: perhaps a journey with toto, scarecrow, lion, and tinman would be more enjoyable.
01:36	TEttinger	(I think those probably are all libraries too, now that I think about it)
01:39	skelternet	(shudder)
03:56	ro_st	for some reason, evaluating #+clj in CIDER gives me "No reader function for tag +clj". how do i verify that the cljx nrepl middleware is loading?
03:58	TEttinger	,(defmacro [[x y]] `(+ ~x ~y))
03:58	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler macroexpand1 "Compiler.java" 6644]}\n {:type java.lang.IllegalArgumentException\n :message "Do...
03:58	TEttinger	,(defmacro split+ [[x y]] `(+ ~x ~y))
03:58	clojurebot	#'sandbox/split+
03:58	TEttinger	,(split+ [10 5])
03:58	clojurebot	15
03:59	TEttinger	nice, destructuring works in macros
04:11	TEttinger	,(print (defmacro split+ [[x y]] `(+ ~x ~y)))
04:11	clojurebot	#'sandbox/split+
04:54	jonathanj	do zippers only operate on these tree structures where only the leaf nodes can contain data?
05:39	dagda1_	is there anyway I could have used something different other than recursion for the process function in this gist? https://gist.github.com/dagda1/990912b7e62147cedb8b
05:40	dagda1_	basically I wanted to use take-while or something until the list is empty? is this possible?
06:11	borkdude	has anyone by any change made a ring middleware for prerender.io?
06:15	oddcully	promising, if their own homepage is just a white page without javascript...
06:16	wasamasa	lol
06:16	wasamasa	seems as if this progressive enhancement thing is still pretty revolutionary
06:17	wink	oddcully: they say 'Allow your Javascript website to be crawled perfectly by search engines.'
06:17	wink	nothing about humans
06:19	oddcully	ah those pesky humans... always complaining
06:55	jonathanj	hrm, how can i have a list of (:x m) and (:y m) but only if the values for those keys are not nil?
06:56	jonathanj	((juxt :x :y) m) -> [:something nil]
07:10	J_A_Work	So I’ve got auto-complete and ac-cider installed and working, but my repl completion is terribly broken.
07:13	J_A_Work	nm, just needed a restart.
07:14	oddcully	jonathanj: "but only" sounds to me like if or when. and every? could be used to see if all are non-nil
07:16	jonathanj	i don't actually know what i want
07:16	jonathanj	i'm trying to figure out how to use zippers with my data structure but i just can't get anywhere
07:18	jonathanj	all the articles i've managed to find so far use the nested vector style where data is stored only in leaf nodes, surely that can't be a requirement?
07:53	TimMc	wink++
07:54	wink	I pleas not guilty
07:54	wink	*plead
08:52	irctc	Question for the group: I'm starting to learn clojure and the language seems terrific. I'd like to know what sorts of applications people have found it to be very useful in and what applications where you might have decided to use another language instead.
08:54	mmeix	doing it again (building a function and having the feeling, that this could be done easier...): https://www.refheap.com/102574
08:57	justin_smith	mmeix: (reduce #(if (apply = %2) (conj %1 (first %2)) (into %1 %2)))
08:57	justin_smith	mmeix: by avoiding concat it becomes more efficient, and you keep the vector representation
09:00	mmeix	ah great - I had the same feeling about concat, but the solution didn't want to show itself in my brain ... thanks! (again & again)
09:15	justin_smith	and of course the apply thing is just to reduce the noise
09:15	mmeix	yes, understood
09:18	mmeix	I had - erroneousley - remembered, that "into" reverses the input
09:18	mmeix	but this isn't the case
09:18	mmeix	,(into [1 2] [3 4])
09:18	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
09:18	mmeix	ok
09:19	justin_smith	mmeix: into is like reduce conj
09:19	mmeix	ok
09:19	TMA	,(into '(1 2) '(3 4))
09:19	clojurebot	(4 3 1 2)
09:19	lumafi	it's just (reduce conj to from)
09:19	justin_smith	it reverses (just like conj does) if the destination is a list
09:19	mmeix	ah! yes
09:19	mmeix	that makes it clearer
09:22	Empperi	cfleming: thank you for the latest cursive update, fixed the debugger for me! <3
09:23	Empperi	finally it understands it's evaluating clojure code and provides all the appropriate debugging tools for it
09:30	justin_smith	a rebus for node.js http://i.imgur.com/dCYJZTC.jpg
09:30	justin_smith	no, rebus is the wrong term
09:36	TimMc	justin_smith: "Probably not street legal"?
09:36	justin_smith	just like node!
10:15	elvis4526	Hey guys, how do i use the clj->js macro in clj ?
10:42	wasamasa	not cljs->js in cljs?
10:52	justin_smith	elvis4526: I don't think clj->js is implemented in clj
10:53	cfleming	Empperi: Seriously man, you have the weirdest problems - and solutions! I didn't touch the debugger in the last release.
10:53	cfleming	Empperi: Not sure what it was, but I'm glad it's working :-)
10:54	xemdetia	the worst kind of fix
10:55	oddcully	with intellij it could be also sunflares
11:02	xemdetia	I double foil my laptop to make sure that doesn't happen
11:02	xemdetia	unless I need a baked potato more than an ide at the time
11:07	Empperi	cfleming: lol, well it did fix the debugger for me :)
11:14	noncom	does anyone actually use aleph for TCP?
11:14	justin_smith	noncom: I've played with it as a simple http server - or do you mean raw tcp without the http stuff on top?
11:15	noncom	yeah
11:15	code-ape	noncom: I've done a little bit of raw TCP stuff.
11:15	code-ape	with Aleph*
11:15	noncom	how do you setup a client to be ready to receive a string from a server?
11:16	Shayanjm	is there a way to suppress certain things from being printed to stdout from other packages/libraries?
11:16	noncom	i look into the examples on the official papers... the examples are too convoluted
11:16	Shayanjm	there are some warnings being printed to stdout upon loading a certain package which is an issue since the stdout is piped and reused
11:16	noncom	it looks like aleph is already leaving our realm and heading toward some higher intelligence...
11:18	code-ape	noncom: I've actually only used it for the server side, hold on one second and I'll see if I can decipher the docs for you :)
11:18	justin_smith	Shayanjm: if they are using a logging library you can fix the logging config. If they are using println you can hit them over the head with a board until they stop using println.
11:18	noncom	code-ape: http://ideolalia.com/aleph/literate.html#aleph.examples.tcp
11:18	Shayanjm	justin_smith: It's clj-http and the issue is actually from the logging library
11:18	justin_smith	Shayanjm: with all seriousness, you can also wrap calls in with-out-str which will capture any stdout usage of code inside it
11:18	Shayanjm	sl4j is throwing warnings, I think because clj-http is missing a jar
11:19	justin_smith	Shayanjm: yeah, with a logging lib you can make it log to a file
11:19	justin_smith	or send the messages to a server, or just shut up
11:19	Shayanjm	How do I do that for a package installed via clojars?
11:19	Shayanjm	since I don't have access to the configs locally (unless... I do?)
11:19	justin_smith	Shayanjm: it uses the classpath to find its configs
11:20	justin_smith	Shayanjm: a well behaved lib will leave things so you have final control of all logging behavior (including in some cases requiring you to provide a logger impl, this may be the case here I think)
11:20	Shayanjm	I think it might just be easier to wrap my require in with-out-str
11:20	noncom	code-ape: i would be highly grateful if you explain how i can just setup a channgel i can read from and write to
11:20	Shayanjm	but that means i'll have to break that line out of the ns :require
11:21	justin_smith	Shayanjm: I think it's fixable by a) explicitly depending on a sl4j impl that it can find and use and b) configuring sl4j with a properties file so that it never uses stdout
11:21	code-ape	noncom: So one thing that it nice about ztellman (author of Aleph) but that takes a bit of getting use to is that he creates a ton of libraries that he uses together.
11:21	Shayanjm	gotcha
11:22	Shayanjm	justin_smith: so by explicitly depending on a sl4j impl - do you mean installing sl4j in the top level project manually?
11:22	Shayanjm	let me try that
11:22	justin_smith	Shayanjm: no, sl4j is an interface
11:22	Shayanjm	oic
11:22	Shayanjm	My noob is showing, sorry
11:22	justin_smith	Shayanjm: so you need some other lib that satisfies that interface
11:22	noncom	code-ape: and that are rather cryptic in themselves. there are neither docs, nor examples. the sources look like i could spend a couple of days just to understand the whole idea of what happens there
11:22	justin_smith	no problem, this stuff is weird :)
11:22	Shayanjm	so like some other logging lib or something?
11:23	code-ape	noncom: I'm digging up the Manifold docs now, but basically you'll want to chain whatever is piping into or out of the TCP connection using Manifold.
11:23	noncom	yes, sounds great! :) also it resembles what written in the docs and in my code :)
11:23	noncom	still i just don't get, what's going on
11:23	justin_smith	Shayanjm: for example there is a "sl4j-simple" impl that requires no config - all the pom.xml stuff is easy to convert to project.clj, and depending on the stuff "magically" makes things work http://saltnlight5.blogspot.com/2013/08/how-to-configure-slf4j-with-different.html
11:24	Shayanjm	oh awesome
11:24	Shayanjm	thanks justin_smith - I'll play with it
11:24	justin_smith	Shayanjm: to make it not use stdout, you might want the log4j impl
11:24	justin_smith	there are examples of all the config on that page
11:25	code-ape	noncom: if you're willing to use Gloss, his example sounds like what you want.
11:25	noncom	i pretty much replicate what's written in the doc
11:25	code-ape	noncom: gloss will take bytes from the TCP connection and hand you thing (objects, strings, arrays, etc)
11:25	noncom	and i am able to send strings
11:25	noncom	however, i cannot manage getting them in..
11:25	Shayanjm	justin_smith: this page clears things up - thanks a lot
11:25	noncom	ah, alright, i guess the question is to broad
11:26	code-ape	noncom: gotcha, one sec.
11:26	justin_smith	Shayanjm: glad I could help
11:28	noncom	code-ape: in other words, can't receive whats sent back from the server
11:28	noncom	code-ape: ideally i need to send a string and wait for an answer
11:28	Shayanjm	justin_smith: adding sl4j-simple was a simple fix, thanks a lot
11:28	noncom	when the answer comes, i act on it...
11:31	code-ape	noncom: found it! d/chain is what is limiting you. The creation of the TCP server returns a duplex stream, however when it is called as the first argument in manifold.deferred/chain then it can only emit things.
11:32	noncom	code-ape: what does all that mean?!
11:32	code-ape	um, I can code it up, where are we suppose to code stuff here?
11:33	noncom	code-ape: look : https://www.refheap.com/102581
11:33	noncom	code-ape: code examples can be posted on refheap
11:34	noncom	code-ape: so, about my refheap: my biggest misunderstanding is how d/let-flow breaks the client so that it is not readable anymore
11:34	noncom	it starts to return that << ... >> always
11:34	noncom	(server logs are ok, it is just echoing)
11:35	noncom	code-ape: also, why does it return << ... >> instead of "nothing" when i read on a stream that does not hold a pending value?
11:36	code-ape	noncom: https://www.refheap.com/102582
11:38	code-ape	noncom: that's all the help I can give for the moment, got to get back to work!
12:08	CookedGryphon	How do I type hint something that takes method(Collection<String> blah)
12:09	CookedGryphon	there is a second implementation method(String oneblah)
12:09	CookedGryphon	simply ^Collection still gives me call to static method can't be resolved argument types: unknown
12:11	justin_smith	CookedGryphon: I assume you imported java.util.Collection?
12:11	justin_smith	,java.util.Collection
12:11	clojurebot	java.util.Collection
12:11	justin_smith	,Collection
12:11	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: Collection in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: Collection in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol: Col...
12:12	CookedGryphon	I hadn't
12:12	CookedGryphon	but even when I do, it's the same error
12:12	justin_smith	oh, that's very weird
12:14	TimMc	CookedGryphon: What if you fully qualify it in the type hint?
12:14	CookedGryphon	Same error
12:14	CookedGryphon	warning*
12:15	CookedGryphon	If I do the converse, and type hint a String in the same place
12:15	TimMc	Well, there goes that idea.
12:15	CookedGryphon	that's fine
12:18	CookedGryphon	oh
12:18	CookedGryphon	so if I move the type hint out to a let
12:18	CookedGryphon	it's fine
12:18	CookedGryphon	or at least doesn't complain
12:18	justin_smith	how do I prevent reload-caused inequality in a unit test?
12:19	justin_smith	I have a test that verifies my custom transit reader works, and an assertion that should be trivial fails after my first reload of the test namespace
12:20	justin_smith	https://www.refheap.com/102583 line 13
12:20	justin_smith	*custom transit writer
12:21	justin_smith	in other words, how do I make sure (class (Foo.)) is always equal to Foo
12:22	justin_smith	(within one namespace, I am aware of inter-namespace issues)
12:23	justin_smith	updated to show the failing unit test message https://www.refheap.com/102583
12:26	justin_smith	would this be a question of using clojure.tools.namespace/refresh instead of a simple require :reload?
12:32	TimMc	Yeah, I don't see why that's breaking.
12:46	puredanger	just curious, but have you tried ->Thing instead of Thing. ?
12:47	puredanger	(generally I'd prefer the former anyways)
12:50	csd_	How do I access the leiningen tool window in Cursive?
12:52	cfleming	csd_: View->Tool Windows->Leiningen, or you can click on the toolwindow button at the edge of the screen if you have them shown. If you don't, click on the square icon at the bottom left of the screen, or hit Cmd twice (on mac, not sure on other platforms) to show them temporarily.
12:52	csd_	cfleming: thank you
12:55	noncom	code-ape: hi again!
12:55	noncom	sorry, workers killed the lights here :(
12:55	noncom	i've got your refheap snippet
12:56	code-ape	nomcom: did you figure it out, or make progress?
12:56	noncom	i was able to get to the address just now
12:57	noncom	code-ape: you've set up two chains
12:57	code-ape	noncom: yup!
12:58	code-ape	noncom: one makes the tcp server the target and the other makes it the source. Inflow and outflow.
13:01	csd_	cfleming: is there an easy way to get cursive to show docstrings at the bottom, like with cider?
13:03	sdegutis	Is this an anti-pattern? (or (not-empty (for [x some-list] ...)) "the list was empty")
13:03	sdegutis	Or in some other way a bad idea?
13:03	Shayanjm	So I have a list of list (which could theoretically get pretty huge). I'm trying to partition it by 1000 and iterate over the subsequent list-of-lists
13:04	sdegutis	Shayanjm: use partition then?
13:04	Shayanjm	I'm trying to print each sublist with a newline character between prints (so that stdout can be piped to another process which just grabs all the data)
13:04	sdegutis	Shayanjm: sounds like you can just use doseq with partition
13:04	sdegutis	Shayanjm: or for and partition and then println the whole thing
13:04	Shayanjm	sdegutis: I tried for as well as map println, and for some reason there's no output when run via the jar
13:05	sdegutis	Shayanjm: although you probably want partition-all if the last one will have < 1000 items
13:05	Shayanjm	but in the repl map println works
13:05	Shayanjm	yeah
13:05	Shayanjm	i'm using partition-all 1000 right now
13:05	Shayanjm	but when I run it via the jar, there's no output
13:05	sdegutis	Shayanjm: that's because you're never doing stuff with the lazy seq result -- this is a pretty common rookie mistake
13:05	sdegutis	an incredibly boring one fwiw
13:06	Shayanjm	sdegutis: Ah - that makes sense. So if I wanted to iterate and make sure each one prints - doseq?
13:06	noncom	code-ape: what is that "thing that emits data" ?
13:06	sdegutis	Shayanjm: I think amalloy_ can explain better -- he always can
13:06	noncom	is it a function a deferred or what...
13:06	sdegutis	Shayanjm: read the docs for doseq, doall, dorun, for, and map
13:07	justin_smith	puredanger: just got out of a meeting "expected: (= (class (->Thing :a)) Thing)"
13:07	justin_smith	puredanger: very weird
13:08	puredanger	justin_smith: my other questions are whether this is 1.6 or 1.7 and whether there is an aot-compiled class version of anything on the classpath
13:08	justin_smith	puredanger: no AOT I know of, clojure-version {:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "beta2"}
13:08	justin_smith	I should update to the RC
13:08	code-ape	noncom: actually on second visit I think my example is wrong. Look at the wrap-duplex-stream method in the example.
13:09	justin_smith	puredanger: we have AOT for a jsvc wrapper, but that is not used during dev, it's a shim that uses resolve at runtime
13:10	code-ape	mainfold.stream/connect is used to connect two streams with the tcp stream being the target.
13:10	noncom	uh... maybe...
13:11	code-ape	noncom: https://github.com/ztellman/aleph/blob/master/examples/src/aleph/examples/tcp.clj#L44
13:11	noncom	code-ape: i have that in my code
13:11	noncom	actually my code is not much different from the example
13:11	code-ape	noncom: I know, do you know what it does?
13:12	noncom	code-ape: well, in general. probably i am missing something...
13:12	justin_smith	puredanger: I still see the failed test with 1.7.0-RC1
13:13	puredanger	justin_smith: I wouldn't expect anything changed since beta2 to affect this either way. it's most likely related to CLJ-979
13:13	justin_smith	puredanger: this specifically happens after a require :reload of the ns
13:13	justin_smith	OK
13:13	justin_smith	yeah, deftype+reload that must be the one!
13:14	code-ape	noncom: You'll want to use the connect function to connect the stream given (second arg of wrap-duplex-stream) to whatever stream you want. In the example connect is used to connect a just created stream 'out' to the tcp stream 's'. Create whatever stream you want, pass it as an arg, and use connect with the tcp stream as the first arg so that it is the emitor.
13:14	justin_smith	luckily this was just a sanity-test in the unit tests, so it doesn't break our code, it's merely an indicator of insanity
13:15	code-ape	noncom: I'm afraid I don't have time to code up an example or I would.
13:17	puredanger	justin_smith: a new Thing class will get created and updated in the DCL on each reload but something must be resolving the old one. Not sure what in this example though. Have you tried switching to ->Thing ?
13:18	justin_smith	puredanger: yeah, that's what I meant by "expected: (= (class (->Thing :a)) Thing)" above
13:18	noncom	code-ape: alright, thank you!
13:18	puredanger	justin_smith: sorry, reading comprehension fail.
13:19	justin_smith	puredanger: but that issue on jira seemed to describe the behavior I was seeing quite precisely, so it's good to know it's at least on the radar
13:19	puredanger	justin_smith: that change is included in 1.7 (since alpha6 I think)
13:19	puredanger	so that is my confusion
13:20	justin_smith	puredanger: oh... I'll throw together a minimal reproducing case then, and maybe make my own jira submission (or an addendum to that issue?)
13:20	puredanger	I am puzzling through some related things on CLJ-1741 at the moment
13:21	justin_smith	that looks like it could be related, yeah...
13:25	puredanger	it is... tricky.
13:30	kaladin	anyone here use yesql?
13:36	justin_smith	puredanger: OK, I made a shell script that reproduces the issue with various jars - can reproduce the error in a minimal code snippet with versions all the way back to 1.3.0 (I figured older than that wouldn't even be worth trying)
13:37	justin_smith	puredanger: oh, wait... this is capturing the type in a clojure, which of course would cause inequality... so it is not a good example at all
13:44	Bronsa	justin_smith: ping me when you have a minimal example, I can take a look when I have some time
13:44	puredanger	justin_smith: when you say "reload" what exactly do you mean?
13:47	justin_smith	puredanger: Bronsa: turns out the minimal example requires three files, and fails with versions all the way back to 1.3
13:47	justin_smith	https://gist.github.com/noisesmith/793a002ab7454f2b0419
13:47	justin_smith	puredanger: the content of reproduce.clj should make what I mean by :reload clear
13:49	puredanger	Bronsa: me too :)
13:49	puredanger	justin_smith: I don't think you should expect that example to work (aside from your original case)
13:49	Bronsa	justin_smith: ah, I think i know why that happens
13:50	Bronsa	I don't think there's a way to fix it though
13:50	justin_smith	oh! do tell
13:50	Bronsa	type.Type is resolved at the ns load time
13:50	Bronsa	(type/->Type) returns a differnet class at runtime
13:50	justin_smith	but I reload both namespaces...
13:51	Bronsa	but you reload type after reloading driver
13:51	puredanger	but you reload them in the "wrong" order
13:51	justin_smith	ahh...
13:51	Bronsa	to fix this we would need to resolve class literals at runtime rather than at load time
13:51	noncom	is there any function like (f & args) which simply evaluates its args and does nothing else?
13:52	Bronsa	a significant performance hit, I think
13:52	justin_smith	puredanger: OK, fixing the order fixes it
13:52	Cust0dian	noncom, identity? http://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/identity
13:52	noncom	ah, it's a (do) form
13:52	justin_smith	weirdly, in my testing scenario the reloads are in the right order and it still messes up though...
13:52	noncom	Cust0dian: i thought about it, but it is only 1-arity
13:53	justin_smith	(inc puredanger)
13:53	justin_smith	(inc Bronsa)
13:53	justin_smith	thanks for helping me sort that out, I was very confused for a moment there
13:54	puredanger	justin_smith: I think putting your deftype in a separate namespace would likely help in the deftest case
13:54	justin_smith	oh, I'll try that, thanks
13:55	Bronsa	puredanger: btw if you want to talk about the patch I proposed for CLJ-1714 or have a better proposal I'm happy to discuss the subject
13:55	puredanger	I've really stepped pretty far back from that, have been thinking about compilation in general
13:55	puredanger	I think there's no way we should do what you have in the patch there
13:56	puredanger	and I think the changes in CLJ-979 are good
13:57	puredanger	there are definitely longer-range and bigger changes needed re aot (clj-322, clj-1544, etc)
13:57	puredanger	I'm trying to figure out what if anything needs to be changed for 1.7
14:00	Bronsa	puredanger: agreed. I come to the conclusion that maybe CLJ-979 should have included changes in the whole loading/compilation mechanism rather than targetting just the classloader
14:01	puredanger	running "compile" has runtime effects (classloading, updates to defmulti methods and protocol impls, interning of vars, and of course writes of class files to disk). if as in CLJ-1714 you run several compiles in a row, they are affected by the prior compiles.
14:02	puredanger	what we have (compile 1 namespace arbitrarily transitively and deeply) does not match up to what we typically want (compile all namespaces in a project but not anything outside the project)
14:04	Bronsa	puredanger: I'm glad to hear that :) have been thinking the same for a while
14:05	puredanger	I think perhaps requiring that the compile-path be on the classpath was a mistake. I think I'd rather that compilation outputs are purely outputs, not potential inputs.
14:05	Bronsa	yes, definitely
14:05	Bronsa	there might be some tooling issues too
14:05	puredanger	and that compilation should produce all the right runtime effects, in addition to exporting .class
14:06	Bronsa	trying to reproduce some weird cases manifesting themselves using lein via bare clojure has been a nightmare
14:07	puredanger	having compile-path on the classpath was necessary before we modified the loader to be able to go back and load the generated classes, but I do not think that is an issue post-979
14:07	puredanger	1741 is trivially resolved by just changing the order of compilation in the project.clj
14:09	puredanger	is that enough for us to push this off past 1.7? dunno. trying to make my peace with that.
14:09	Bronsa	puredanger: the real big issue I encountered mixing aot/jit is that once we load somens__init.class (via the applclassloader) classes won't be resolved using dcl
14:10	Bronsa	and I don't think there's anything we can do about it other than avoiding at all costs loading somens__init.class if not strictly necessary
14:15	puredanger	isn't that really an issue primarily when doing this mixture of compiling and consuming compiled?
14:27	Bronsa	puredanger: yes. I confess it never occurred to me that changing the requirements for compile-path could be a reasonable solution, shifting the blame from clojure to tooling in a way
14:29	puredanger	the original assumption (I went back and read the irc logs from Rich around the time) was that classloading would occur normally and aot would just produce classes at runtime that happened to be produced there
14:30	puredanger	but this predated a lot of the class generation stuff that we have now and I think that is a problematic assumption
14:30	Bronsa	puredanger: ah, just so you don't waste time as I already did, what we can't do is change how aot classes are preferred over clj files when in the classpath
14:31	puredanger	I think that's ok
14:31	puredanger	and desirable
14:31	Bronsa	that mechanism needs to be in place if we want to distribute both source and aot compiled files for fast loading purposes as clojure does for example
14:32	puredanger	yes, that's all fine
14:33	puredanger	there's some other interesting ideas in CLJ-322 and http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Transitive+AOT+Compilation on the transitive aspects of aot
14:33	puredanger	I don't have a good opinion yet on a preference over the things people have proposed over time
14:36	mmeix	,(defn zigzag [n] (take n (flatten (apply map vector ((juxt reverse identity) (range 1 (inc n)))))))
14:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/zigzag
14:37	mmeix	,(zigzag 7)
14:37	clojurebot	(7 1 6 2 5 ...)
14:37	mmeix	point free :-)
14:37	mmeix	or is it?
14:41	Bronsa	dnolen: ping
14:42	dnolen	Bronsa: pong
14:43	Bronsa	dnolen: i just noticed cljs allows using ^:const vars as dispatch values in case statements -- this is a significant difference from clj
14:43	Bronsa	I realize this is intentional but.. do we really want/need it?
14:43	justin_smith	,(defn zagzig [n] (take n (apply mapcat list ((juxt reverse identity) (range 1 (inc n))))))
14:43	clojurebot	#'sandbox/zagzig
14:44	justin_smith	,(zagzig 7)
14:44	clojurebot	(7 1 6 2 5 ...)
14:44	justin_smith	mmeix: ^
14:44	justin_smith	~flatten
14:44	clojurebot	flatten is rarely the right answer. Suppose you need to use a list as your "base type", for example. Usually you only want to flatten a single level, and in that case you're better off with concat. Or, better still, use mapcat to produce a sequence that's shaped right to begin with.
14:44	mmeix	just trying it out
14:44	dnolen	Bronsa: probably can't really change it now due to user code depending on it
14:45	Bronsa	puredanger: and I guess we can't backport this to clojure for the same reason?
14:45	mmeix	justin_smith thanks!
14:46	Bronsa	dnolen: btw I have a branch in tools.reader that uses the new ns-* stuff in cljs to support some auto-resolving if you want to try that out. still untested though
14:47	Bronsa	I see you're having fun trying to gete cljs-in-cljs. I don't envy you, my head hurts just thinking about all the different loading/compilation/runtime stages involved
14:50	dnolen	Bronsa: haha, macros are really the only last hurdle to a basic working bootstrapped analyzer/compiler. Just need to add macro support to the ClojureScript compiler and add a small hack to append the macros functions to cljs.core.
14:50	dnolen	Bronsa: analyzing trivial stuff like keywords from bootstrapped analyzer already works, but analyze-seq blocked on macro support
14:51	Bronsa	dnolen: no more import-macros in core.clj then?
14:52	dnolen	far more tedious will be IO bits for Node.js / Browser as well supporting deps in JARs under Node.js etc.
14:53	dnolen	Bronsa: cljs.core macro ns probably needs just a bit of pre-processing, import-macros will probably be hacked to inline source.
14:56	dfletcher	you know what makes me insanley happy for no reason? when a callback is also a perfectly useful utility function or operation. was doing some JQuery last night and it happened and I realized how rare it is in most languages and how common in clojure <3
14:56	dnolen	Bronsa: I will checkout that branch, yeah the idea is just support more copy-pasta between cljs.tools.reader and clojure.tools.reader
14:56	Bronsa	dnolen: kinda unrelated but do you think there is a chance of removing the dependency on cljs.analyzer from cljs.core.clj? that is really what has drawn me back from keeping on developing t.a.js
14:57	Bronsa	I needed to backport every change in core.clj to t.a.js and I simply couldn't keep the pace :)
14:57	dnolen	Bronsa: hrm I don't think so, we use the analyzer for many non-trivial things in the macros file now
15:01	dnolen	Bronsa: I mean not against cleaning up the macros files if someone wants to do that work. The way it was done was just a matter of convenience.
15:01	dnolen	"I'm not against"
15:02	Bronsa	dnolen: got it, thanks. I'll think about it but don't have much time in the last period unfortunately.
15:03	dnolen	Bronsa: yep, also some stuff would really just be even uglier if not in the macros file, like the top-level `defn` special casing.
15:34	devn	Hey all, I'm curious how people feel about using logback or slf4j via a properties file vs using something like timbre
15:37	irctc	I'm wading through clojure.core.reducers docs and the newer transducers. Are the later replacing the former?
15:43	puredanger	kind of, although they are not either or
15:44	puredanger	reducers still are the only current path for sequence-like transformations that can occur in parallel on a map or vector via fold
15:44	irctc	Currently I'm clojure.core/reduce'ing over a LazySeq of Maps. calculating numbers and associng back to the map and conjing to list. Currently taking about 10 minutes serially using regular reduce. Would like to use r/fold having an 8 core dev box and 32 core prod.
15:45	irctc	puredanger: ah, ok that helps that the parallel aspect is still in reducers.
15:51	amalloy	fold is going to be a little bit awkward, unless it's quite expensive to calculate those numbers. to fold a lazy seq in parallel you'll have to realize it all at once, and then you'll still have a bottleneck of smooshing together all these intermediate maps into one big map
15:58	irctc	amalloy: It's expensive because of the amount of data. It's only a lazyseq because that's what's returned by clojure.jdbc. As I understand it 'fold' required putting into a vector anyway, due being implemented with a tree structure that can be easily parallelized.
16:03	irctc	amalloy: Here's the gist of the serial reduce I'm trying to convert to fold. (reduce (fn [c m] (conj c (assoc-some-extra-stuff m (calc-numbers m other-params-related-to-calculating)))) '() seq-of-maps)
17:30	thesaskwatch	WARNING: CIDER requires nREPL 0.2.7 (or newer) to work properly
17:30	thesaskwatch	WARNING: The following required nREPL ops are not supported:
17:30	thesaskwatch	format-code format-edn ns-path refresh
17:30	thesaskwatch	Please, install (or update) cider-nrepl 0.9.0-SNAPSHOT and restart CIDER
17:30	thesaskwatch	WARNING: CIDER's version (0.9.0-snapshot) does not match cider-nrepl's version (0.8.2)
17:30	thesaskwatch	Hi, what should I do when I get a message like this ^^
17:30	thesaskwatch	My ~/lein/profiles.clj looks like this: {:user {:plugins [[cider/cider-nrepl "0.9.0-SNAPSHOT"]]}}
17:40	thesaskwatch	https://github.com/bhauman/lein-figwheel/issues/149#issue-75500018 seems to help.
18:48	daviid	hello, here: http://rsb.info.nih.gov/ij/developer/api/ij/plugin/ImageCalculator.html, how do i translate imp3 = ic.run("Average create", imp1, imp2) in clojure ?
18:59	daviid	i found it: (.run ic "Average create" imp1 imp2)
19:45	Surgo	How does the #=() dispatch work in EDN? Does it just call a function with the given arguments?
19:45	Surgo	I can't seem to find any docs about it
19:47	TEttinger	,"#=(+ 1 2)"
19:47	clojurebot	"#=(+ 1 2)"
19:47	TEttinger	hm
19:47	TEttinger	,reader-eval
19:47	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: reader-eval in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: reader-eval in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbo...
19:48	TEttinger	,read-eval
19:48	clojurebot	false
19:48	Surgo	heh
19:48	TEttinger	that's why it isn't evaling it
19:48	Surgo	let me just paste my example issue
19:48	Surgo	I'm pretty confused over something
19:48	TEttinger	,(with-binding [read-eval true] "#=(+ 1 2)")
19:48	clojurebot	#error {\n :cause "Unable to resolve symbol: with-binding in this context"\n :via\n [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException\n :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: with-binding in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)"\n :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6543]}\n {:type java.lang.RuntimeException\n :message "Unable to resolve symbol:...
19:48	TEttinger	,(binding [read-eval true] "#=(+ 1 2)")
19:48	clojurebot	"#=(+ 1 2)"
19:48	TEttinger	hm
19:49	Surgo	you forgot read-string
19:49	Surgo	it works as you'd expect, you get 3
19:49	Surgo	I'm having trouble with a function I defined though, one sec while I try to pastebin it out
19:49	Surgo	can't copy/paste out of my silly VM, I hate vmware
19:49	TEttinger	no, I didn't forget read-string, that would get a form out of the string, and I want to eval inside the string
19:53	TEttinger	I never use #=, so I suppose I don't really know what it does
19:53	amalloy	just don't use #"
19:54	TEttinger	regex?
19:54	clojurebot	Sometimes people have a problem, and decide to solve it with regular expressions. Now they have two problems.
19:54	TEttinger	the first of those questions is typically "where did TEttinger go?"
19:54	amalloy	er, #=
19:55	Surgo	python http.server to the rescue. i hate vmware
19:55	Surgo	it appears to be a function call
19:55	Surgo	one sec
19:56	TEttinger	oh and the second of those questions is "gfredericks, can you answer a regex internals question?"
19:57	Surgo	http://pastebin.com/bMzfy6b8 -- top is the library code, bottom is the weirdness. I've verified that (deserialize base64) works just fine, and a read-string on a basic function works fine, but I can't seem to make the function call happen correctly with my new function
19:58	TEttinger	missing an # ?
19:58	TEttinger	(str "=(freeze.core/deserialize \""
19:58	Surgo	rofl
19:58	Surgo	you're a lifesaver
19:58	Surgo	I've been at this for an hour!
19:59	TEttinger	heh I hope that's all it needs!
19:59	Surgo	yep, you got it
19:59	TEttinger	woo!
20:00	Surgo	of course, now I've got a second problem :) do you know if there's a way with (prefer-method X Y) to say, prefer X over Y for all defined X
20:00	Surgo	I'm worried I may have to descend into some macro trickery to enumerate all defined X
20:00	TEttinger	where X is java.io.Serializable here?
20:01	Surgo	Y is java.io.Serializable, X is anything that already has a multimethod implementation but also implements java.io.Serializable
20:02	TEttinger	uh, I think the list of everything that is Serializable is extremely large
20:03	Surgo	yes :( I am afraid I am going to have to write a macro to enumerate everything
20:03	TEttinger	there is another way
20:03	Surgo	essentially my goal is, to have a fallback multimethod implementation for java.io.Serializable so you can use it with...well, anything that spits back out and reads back in stuff with (pr-str), like ring
20:04	TEttinger	ah, so this needs compatibility with print-dup specifically
20:04	Surgo	yeah, exactly
20:04	Surgo	if I don't specify the preference order the first time it tries to dump anything that's both serializable and has a multimethod implementation it's going to throw an exception
20:06	amalloy	are you sure, Surgo?
20:07	amalloy	i think it should just work, because it uses type hierarchy to figure out automatic preferences
20:08	Surgo	one sec, pulling an example
20:08	Surgo	vm copy/paste at it again
20:11	Surgo	seems that way, at least
20:11	Surgo	(binding [print-dup true] (pr-str (fn [x y] (+ x y)))) IllegalArgumentException Multiple methods in multimethod 'print-dup' match dispatch value: class freeze.core$eval1397$fn__1398 -> interface clojure.lang.Fn and interface java.io.Serializable, and neither is preferred clojure.lang.MultiFn.findAndCacheBestMethod (MultiFn.java:182)
21:21	tmtwd	how do I get cljs to run on node on emacs?
21:44	dnolen	tmtwd: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Emacs-%26-Inferior-Clojure-Interaction-Mode
23:30	tmtwd	does rlwrap work inside emacs?
23:30	tmtwd	or do I have to run it in a shell?
23:31	amalloy	why would you need rlwrap if you're in emacs? you already have emacs editing features?
23:32	tmtwd	I want a repl
23:32	tmtwd	can I just use cider-jack-in instead?
23:40	tmtwd	ClojureScript Node.js REPL server listening on 52201
23:40	tmtwd	this launches in my terminal, what does 52201 socket mean?
23:40	tmtwd	I can't go to localhost:52201 , can I?