#clojure – 2015-03-26

2015-03-26

01:46	wefwef	attempting to run lein repl results in the following: Could not transfer artifact org.clojure:tools.nrepl:pom:0.2.6 from/to central (https://repo1.maven.org/maven2/): java.lang.RuntimeException: Unexpect
01:46	wefwef	ed error: java.security.InvalidAlgorithmParameterException: the trustAnchors parameter must be non-empty
01:47	wefwef	on OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_31-b13)
01:47	wefwef
01:49	wefwef	not currently behind proxy, any jvm type settings to check?
02:19	Kneiva	wefwef: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4764611/java-security-invalidalgorithmparameterexception-the-trustanchors-parameter-mus ?
02:21	Kneiva	wefwef: here's one with openJDK http://architecturalatrocities.com/post/19073788679/fixing-the-trustanchors-problem-when-running
03:24	hamid	hello there :) Would anyone help me solve this one? :P http://clojurescriptkoans.com/#destructuring/7
03:26	kungi	hamid: yes I would. I always have a look at this tutorial when I'm not sure about destructuring: http://blog.jayfields.com/2010/07/clojure-destructuring.html
03:27	hamid	ka2u, awesome thanks.
04:55	sveri	"Working on siwf in clojure and clojurescript" just went live!, check it out here: http://www.twitch.tv/sveri80
06:03	ane	wtf watching people code is now a thing?
06:03	the_frey	it is?
06:04	justin_smith	evidently, but hey if people want to watch, why not
06:11	clgv	half-pair-programming? :P
06:12	clgv	ane: did you spot plenty of videos being uploaded?
06:18	justin_smith	clgv: sveri just posted a link
06:23	clgv	justin_smith: too early for me ;)
06:29	elvis4526	Where are static files served when running lein run with http-kit ?
06:30	justin_smith	elvis4526: whereever you tell ring to look for them (via wrap-static)
06:30	justin_smith	elvis4526: though generally wrap-resources is better, because it allows serving files from inside an unexploded jar
06:30	elvis4526	I use compojure
06:31	justin_smith	that doesn't change things
06:31	justin_smith	compojure uses ring
06:31	justin_smith	ring uses the wrap-static or wrap-resources middleware
06:31	elvis4526	sorry i didn't finish what I wanted to say lol
06:31	elvis4526	I did (files "/public") in my routes
06:31	elvis4526	this is relative to where when running lein run ?
06:32	justin_smith	I've never used that "files" thing, I've always used wrap-resources or wrap-static, and those are relative to the classpath
06:33	elvis4526	classpath = where you're clj file are ?
06:33	elvis4526	when deploying into a jar, /public really refer at the root of the jar
06:33	elvis4526	(if this is any help)
06:33	justin_smith	really? that seems like a terrible idea
06:34	justin_smith	classpath is the set of places where the jvm looks for resources at runtime
06:34	elvis4526	where does static file should live ?
06:34	justin_smith	the primary job for lein is to set up your classpath
06:35	justin_smith	they can be whereever is convenient, but I typically put them is resources/ and then use wrap-resources to point to the folder they are in
06:35	justin_smith	eg if I put them in resources/public/ then I use (wrap-resources "public")
06:35	elvis4526	so there are available at localhost/public/blabla.js ?
06:35	justin_smith	right
06:35	elvis4526	that's what I did
06:55	justin_smith	elvis4526: actually, I take that back - if you do (wrap-resources "public") and had the file resources/public/bla.js, you would access it as "localhost/bla.js"
06:59	sveri	ane clgv justin_smith I tried that a few times now and, the funny thing is, it really helps me concentrate and not get distracted (coding for private things always suffer my procrastination wishes), it's an interesting concept and, at the same time, you can get people attracted to clojure :-)
07:12	justin_smith	heh, it was interesting to see intellij in action
07:13	sveri	I was never able ti get productive with emacs, tried it three times for severl hours, but...
07:23	laurio	justin_smith: wow, didn't know that
07:25	laurio	i started to use cond instead in order to avoid hard coding values more than once
07:26	elvis45261	Is there a way to speed up lein run ?
07:26	elvis45261	it's crazy slow.
07:27	justin_smith	elvis45261: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Faster
07:27	justin_smith	LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINE is good
07:28	elvis45261	that's what I was about to ask
07:28	elvis45261	it seems the only "okay" solution
07:28	justin_smith	another trick is to not use lein at all
07:29	justin_smith	lein cp > "class_path.txt"; java -cp $(cat class_path.txt) clojure.main -m your.ns
07:30	justin_smith	but that's only going to be marginally faster than LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINE - remember that that only works when you do "lein trampoline run" - "lein run" is not affected by the LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINE setting at all
07:39	agarman	I tried nailgun before, but it becomes convoluted as soon as you have multiple projects or change dependencies or etc.
07:40	borkdude	ordnungswidrig I'm unsure how to combine existing? and put! or post! I want to enfore that someone can only put! or post! when :exists? is true. but when I set put-to-existing? to true, a normal get responds with a 201..
07:51	zoldar	borkdude: you hardcode put-to-existing? to true?
07:53	borkdude	never mind, it seems to be a glitch because of code reloading in the repl
07:54	zoldar	borkdude: ok
07:54	zoldar	borkdude: I suppose that you are aware of this: http://clojure-liberator.github.io/liberator/assets/img/decision-graph.svg
07:54	borkdude	zoldar yes
07:55	zoldar	just making sure
09:09	borkdude	ordnungswidrig I'm still not sure how I must do this with liberator: someone puts!, but if the thing doesn't exist? it should return a 404
09:10	borkdude	ordnungswidrig I have implemented :exists? and set :can-put-to-missing? to false, but that doesn't work
09:10	justin_smith	borkdude: I thought the idea with PUT is that it creates a resource where there wasn't one previously
09:10	borkdude	justin_smith I thought that was post
09:11	borkdude	justin_smith maybe I'm wrong
09:11	justin_smith	borkdude: the relevant rfc http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec9.html
09:12	justin_smith	"The POST method is used to request that the origin server accept the entity enclosed in the request as a new subordinate of the resource identified by the Request-URI in the Request-Line."
09:12	justin_smith	"The PUT method requests that the enclosed entity be stored under the supplied Request-URI."
09:17	justin_smith	borkdude: so maybe you don't want PUT requests at all, and actually want only POST to be allowed?
09:18	borkdude	justin_smith in plain english: I want to store an attribute/column in an existing record. which should I use then?
09:18	justin_smith	post
09:18	justin_smith	put is for making new records
09:18	justin_smith	post is for adding details to something that is already there
09:19	borkdude	ok
09:20	justin_smith	like, if this were eg. reddit, "put" would be for creating a new link, and "post" would be for adding a comment to that link
09:20	borkdude	justin_smith so put for a new "top level" thing
09:20	justin_smith	yeah
09:21	sveri	borkdude: idempotent is the word you are looking for here, if your operation adds something and is idempotent, make it a PUT. Otherwise make it a POST
09:21	justin_smith	sveri: it's not just that though. He wants a 404 for a non-existing URL, which is something POST would do, but not PUT
09:22	justin_smith	PUT would just create the new thing
09:22	justin_smith	(if PUT is accepted at the route targeted, of course)
09:22	sveri	justin_smith: ok, sry, I joined to late I guess and misunderstood the question
09:24	borkdude	for sake of understanding, it's this resource I'm talking about: https://www.refheap.com/98907
09:24	borkdude	I would expect a POST to listen to existing?, but that's not what's happening
09:26	sveri	borkdude: "listen to existing?" what do you mean exactly?
09:28	borkdude	ehm, I mean: it will return a 404 when exists? is nil or false
09:29	sveri	hm, just shooting blindly here, what does (if-let return? maybe try an if statement instead of if-let?
09:29	justin_smith	sveri: if-let returns the same as if would
09:29	borkdude	(if-let [a nil] a) is nil
09:29	sveri	kk
09:29	justin_smith	it just adds a convenient let binding
09:30	justin_smith	borkdude: and I assume you have verified that answers/read-by-invitation isn't returning ()
09:30	justin_smith	since () is truthy of course
09:30	borkdude	ah, I should set can-post-to-missing? to false
09:31	borkdude	https://www.dropbox.com/s/0inkfr1wwsqqpm2/Screenshot%202015-03-26%2014.30.00.png?dl=0
09:31	justin_smith	that sounds applicable. I've been meaning to try liberator.
09:31	borkdude	thanks for thinking along guys
09:32	justin_smith	so that fixed it?
09:32	sveri	yea, that looks nice
09:32	sveri	borkdude: do you handle authentication / authorization with liberator?
09:32	borkdude	sveri authentication no, authorization yes
09:33	sveri	is your code publicy available? I'd like to have a look at it
09:33	borkdude	sveri I'm using lib-noir for authentication
09:34	borkdude	sveri but I wouldn't go there anymore, since it's deprecated by luminus
09:34	sveri	hm, I see
09:34	borkdude	sveri just look at the luminus website how to do authentication and then use :authorized? (fn [ctx] .... (-> ctx :request :session ...)) etc to authorize whatever you like
09:35	sveri	Ok, so no fancy wrapper / abstraction stuff like friend
09:35	borkdude	sveri no. I tried friend, but I never got the hang of it
09:36	sveri	I dropped friend in favor of buddy, which seems pointless after I finally grasped friend :D
09:36	borkdude	sveri buddy is also used in luminus
09:36	borkdude	sveri I kind of fall back on luminus for standard web stuff, so my colleagues can look at that if they have to work on my project in the future. nice references
09:37	sveri	Yea, he really put a lot of effort into the documentation. I used it as a reference for my own template
09:53	dxlr8r	hello. small question. how do I join/concat regex patterns?
09:53	clgv	dxlr8r: you dont.
09:53	dxlr8r	I have a usecase where I need it to not repeat myself
09:53	clgv	dxlr8r: you can concat strings to a single string and convert that to a regex
09:54	dxlr8r	hmmm
09:54	dstockton	use re-pattern and combine the patterns as strings
09:54	justin_smith	dxlr8r: ##(re-seq (re-pattern (str #"a" #".")) "bananananana")
09:54	lazybot	⇒ ("an" "an" "an" "an" "an")
09:54	clgv	maybe you can get the string representation back from the regex
09:54	justin_smith	clgv: yup
09:54	justin_smith	and then create a new regex from that
09:55	dxlr8r	justin_smith: thx :)
09:55	dxlr8r	will use re-pattern. how could I overlook that? :)
09:57	catern	dear #clojure
09:57	catern	is there a way I can easily get my incanter data into my LaTeX document?
09:58	catern	like, for R there is something (I think) where you can just put R variables or something into your LaTeX, and they will get filled in at pdflatex time
09:58	catern	is there anything clever I could do to get that for Incanter...?
09:59	dxlr8r	justin_smith: I get "unsupported escape character" when I try to store my regex
09:59	dxlr8r	\d that is
09:59	dxlr8r	need to use \\ :/ stupid :P
10:00	justin_smith	dxlr8r: or you can do what I did above (str #"\d" #"whatever")
10:00	justin_smith	#"" requires less escaping
10:00	dxlr8r	hmmm
10:02	dxlr8r	nice :) thanks for having patient with a total clojure idiot... come to think of it, not that good on programming in general :)
10:08	clgv	catern: sure 3-4 lines of clojure get that done
10:08	catern	clgv: er, how?
10:08	clgv	catern: just write out the columns then iterate over the rows
10:08	catern	what
10:09	catern	think you're answering someone else's question :)
10:09	clgv	(str/join " & " column-values) will do the table stuff for altex
10:09	clgv	catern: nope yours
10:09	catern	I don't want to do table stuff
10:09	catern	I have no tables, just single values
10:10	clgv	catern: what is "incanter data"? just values?
10:10	catern	yes
10:10	catern	I mean
10:10	clgv	well just copy them over then
10:10	catern	I have table data as well
10:10	catern	clgv: :/
10:10	catern	uh
10:10	catern	no?
10:10	clojurebot	no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer
10:11	justin_smith	clojurebot: you're weird.
10:11	clojurebot	excusez-moi
10:11	catern	clgv: i'd rather not?
10:11	clgv	catern: I guess I dont understand what your problem is.
10:11	catern	nevermind
10:11	catern	clgv: have you ever used R and LaTeX together?
10:12	clgv	you found out that your p-value is 0.031 and want to have that in latex - then just copy the 0.031 over there.
10:12	ticking	lol
10:12	catern	clgv: I want that value to update when I re-run the analysis
10:12	catern	which you can do with R and LaTeX, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweave
10:12	clgv	catern: well then you maybe want some kind of templating
10:12	ticking	catern: an you want it in what context?
10:12	catern	clgv: yes, agreed
10:15	clgv	catern: the sweave approach looks frightening
10:15	ticking	catern: sorry I mist most of the discussion what is the tool you want to use? gorilla repl, clojure ipython? plain html?
10:15	clgv	how do you plan to submit latex sources to a journal?
10:15	catern	clgv: I plan to make a PDF?
10:15	clgv	catern: I guess having a latex file with place holders for the computed values, is probably the best approahc
10:16	catern	clgv: are you telling me to copy them in again?
10:16	clgv	catern: journals almost always want your latex ;)
10:16	catern	again, would rather not copy this stuff in manually
10:16	clgv	catern: no. your program can readin the latex file and fill in the values automatically
10:16	catern	so templating
10:16	catern	yes
10:16	clgv	so you use the latex file as template
10:16	catern	suggestions?
10:17	clgv	catern: we have used selmer for html templating
10:17	clgv	should work with latex as well
10:17	ticking	http://www.tetrisrockstar.com/dynamic-latex-documents-with-clojure-and-fleet/
10:18	catern	ticking: thank you but I have already googled and seen that
10:18	ticking	catern: k
10:18	clgv	ticking: interesting
10:19	clgv	catern: looking at fleet, I'd stick with selmer for your requirements
10:34	irctc__	Can someone point me in the right direction? I'd like to idiomatically turn a sequence of hash-maps with keys :a :b :c to a new sequence of hash-maps with only keys :a and :c
10:34	irctc__	so ({:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}{:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}) becomes ({:a 1 :c 3}{:a 4 :c 6})
10:35	tatut	(map #(dissoc % :b) coll)
10:35	justin_smith	&(map (partial select-keys [:a :c]) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}{:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
10:35	lazybot	⇒ ({} {})
10:35	Bronsa	,(map (partial dissoc :b) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}{:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
10:35	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentMap>
10:35	irctc__	ahh dissoc
10:35	Bronsa	,(map #(dissoc % :b) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}{:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
10:35	clojurebot	({:a 1, :c 3} {:a 4, :c 6})
10:35	justin_smith	&(map #(select-keys % [:a :c]) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3}{:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
10:35	lazybot	⇒ ({:c 3, :a 1} {:c 6, :a 4})
10:35	irctc__	without looking it up, can it handle multiple keys to dissoc at the same time?
10:35	Glenjamin	(doc select keys)
10:35	clojurebot	#error{:cause "Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/eval54/fn--55/my-doc--56", :via [{:type clojure.lang.ArityException, :message "Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/eval54/fn--55/my-doc--56", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler macroexpand1 "Compiler.java" 6628]}], :trace [[clojure.lang.Compiler macroexpand1 "Compiler.java" 6628] [clojure.lang.Compiler macroexpand "Compiler.java" 6694] [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 676
10:35	clgv	irctc__: or select-keys depending on the exact use case ;)
10:35	irctc__	aah
10:36	Bronsa	irctc__ yes
10:36	justin_smith	irctc__: dissoc is varargs, but select-keys is closer to what you want I think
10:36	irctc__	thanks all! select-keys/dissoc
10:36	Glenjamin	hrm, no response to my doc request :(
10:36	justin_smith	Glenjamin: you had a typo
10:36	Glenjamin	oh
10:36	Glenjamin	haha
10:36	Glenjamin	that stack trace makes sense now
10:47	clgv	oh clojurebot changed to string-serializable exceptions?
10:47	stuartsierra	No, Clojure did!
10:47	dysfun	why can't i (defn [f & fs :as all-fs] all-fs) ?
10:47	clgv	,(clojure-version)
10:47	clojurebot	"1.7.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
10:47	clgv	stuartsierra: for real? is there some blog post or similar about that?
10:48	clgv	stuartsierra: is it just a printmethod impementation?
10:48	patrickgombert	clgv: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/692645c73c86d12c93a97c858dc6e8b0f4280a0b
10:48	stuartsierra	dysfun: Because function arity is not the same thing as destructuring, although they share the same syntax.
10:49	clgv	patrickgombert: thanks
10:49	dysfun	okay. is there something cleaner than do what i've done and just use a let underneath and a precondition to assert length is pos?
10:50	patrickgombert	clgv: it’s a nice change, really useful for quickly scanning
10:51	clgv	hopefully nil-safe ;)
10:52	clgv	uhh there is a (set! warn-on-reflection true) i it... :P
10:53	justin_smith	dysfun: how about (defn [& [f & fs :as all-fs]] all-fs)
10:53	dysfun	ewww :)
10:54	justin_smith	it does what you want though
10:54	dysfun	yeah, not denying it :)
10:54	dysfun	still need the precondition
10:55	dysfun	obviously i could write a macro,
10:56	clgv	a (set! warn-on-reflection true) in core_print.clj is going to be fun ;)
10:59	catern	hmmm
10:59	catern	clgv: Actually I asked in #latex and have a somewhat better idea
10:59	catern	you can generate them in the form \def\foo{val} from within the clojure (or whatever else you use) script and then \input{\|"script"}
11:00	catern	(where "script" is something that outputs \def\foo{val} on stdout)
11:00	catern	and \input includes that into the document
11:00	clgv	catern: yeah, pretty similar approach but limiting the document generation to the external file
11:01	catern	clgv: to the external file?
11:01	catern	it seems like a really good approach - at first I was hesistant because I'd need to define all my variables that I wanted to include in advance
11:01	clgv	you do not include an external file ?
11:02	catern	clgv: oh, no no, \input{\|"script"} executes script and includes its stdout into the document
11:02	clgv	you want to actually run a clojure program from the \input statement?
11:02	catern	very unixy :)
11:02	catern	clgv: definitely!
11:02	catern	some lein task, probably
11:03	clgv	haha, your editing will suck due to the much longer latex compilation duration ;)
11:03	catern	clojure startup times :(
11:03	catern	the worst thing about clojure
11:04	clgv	better use \include{constants.tex} and generate that file via a manual call to your clojure program
11:04	justin_smith	catern: what about if "script" was "curl localhost/clojure-server/get-data"
11:04	justin_smith	then you don't have to wait for startup
11:04	clgv	justin_smith: woah, complexity is exploding! :P
11:04	catern	justin_smith: hey, that's smart and also a TERRIBLE HACK
11:04	catern	but I like it
11:04	justin_smith	hehe
11:05	justin_smith	grench is similar
11:05	justin_smith	but maybe less hackish
11:05	justin_smith	you just have one clojure process running, and use grench to get a result from it
11:05	clgv	catern: whats wrong with generating the "constants.tex" - it's like the suggested apporach from #latex but without the high costs of running the clojure program on every latex compilation
11:06	catern	clgv: that's good too I suppose
11:06	catern	I actually like justin_smith's suggestion
11:06	clgv	tikz has a similar approach by using "externalization" as they call it
11:06	catern	I mean all of these are small layers around the central functionality of generating some LaTeX
11:06	catern	maybe I will write a library to generate LaTeX from Clojure values
11:07	justin_smith	catern: you could call it 'org mode'
11:07	catern	justin_smith: :)
11:07	catern	justin_smith: hey, not really though
11:07	justin_smith	I know
11:07	clgv	catern: with the implementation of (format "\def\%s{%s}" (sanitize name) (value)) ? ;)
11:08	dysfun	clgv: from that paste above, i'm intuiting that in clojure 1.7 they're making the core better behaved. is that something they're trying to do?
11:08	catern	clgv: well, what if you have a seq you want to include, or a seq of seqs? (for some reason..)
11:08	justin_smith	clgv: for scalars, but what about structured types?
11:09	catern	maybe it should just be part of Incanter, because I can't see much use in including a dict in LaTeX
11:09	justin_smith	catern: it's just the kind of thing that org mode does - it can do both (embedding clojure code / results, generating latex)
11:10	catern	justin_smith: org-mode does embedding clojure code?
11:10	catern	then I have no need for this!
11:10	clgv	justin_smith: he definitely needs to specify some strucutre of what is supposed to be rendered to latex ..
11:10	catern	justin_smith: please, tell me more
11:10	justin_smith	catern: http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-clojure.html
11:11	catern	oh
11:11	catern	yes
11:11	clgv	dysfun: not sure to what you refer exactly
11:11	catern	I see that
11:11	catern	pretty nice
11:11	justin_smith	"org-babel-clojure allows Clojure code to be executed directly within embedded code blocks in Org-mode documents. These code blocks and their results can be included in an exported document." -- export options include latex
11:11	dysfun	is there a reliable way to get an empty version of a given collection?
11:11	zerokarmaleft	catern: it's a rabbit hole, but check out https://github.com/thi-ng/geom and other repositories for org-mode+babel+clojure literate craziness
11:11	catern	justin_smith: yeah, I've been writing all this in org-mode anyway :)
11:12	dysfun	clgv: setting warn on reflection is presumably attempting to tighten up the behaviour of the core to be a bit higher quality and eliminate performance defects. is this an intended goal for 1.7?
11:12	justin_smith	dysfun: ##(map empty ["a" {:a 0} [1 2 3] #{:a}])
11:12	lazybot	⇒ (nil {} [] #{})
11:12	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
11:12	dysfun	justin_smith: oh brilliant, thanks!
11:12	clgv	dysfun: I guess it ended up there by accident
11:12	justin_smith	dysfun: as you see, it might not do what you want for strings, (which aren't really collections I guess)
11:13	clgv	dysfun: enforcing reflections warnings is not a good idea in general - that has generated a lot of noise already with some libraries where it ended up in a release by accident
11:15	justin_smith	catern: haha, nice, looking at clojure-babel in more detail, they actually include an example of using incanter inside clojure inside org-mode to generate latex
11:15	justin_smith	~emacs
11:15	clojurebot	emacs is finicky to configure and often broken
11:15	catern	justin_smith: yeah, I saw that, which is great
11:16	catern	clojurebot: hey! :(
11:16	clojurebot	No entiendo
11:16	clgv	,(print "catern: :P")
11:16	clojurebot	catern: :P
11:26	catern	such emacs bashing
11:27	catern	you'll drive people to worse things
11:27	catern	they'll think you're being serious!
11:27	catern	keep emacs bashing to #emacs
11:28	J_Arcane	:( I am bombing the extra credit in the UofH Clojure course. :P
11:28	BinaryResult	A reminder: Disco Melee is currently hiring clojure devs https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GvnrSCUbYgbY9XdFs_DUx-0QZG2bIYT8Mbr0zdpTeew/edit?usp=sharing
11:29	bacon1989	they have a clojure course?
11:29	bacon1989	that would be awesome
11:30	J_Arcane	http://iloveponies.github.io/120-hour-epic-sax-marathon/index.html
11:36	borkdude	in liberator, when someone uploads a file I consider too big, what should I respond with?
11:37	jonathanj	all my dependency versions are hardcoded in project.clj, which is great because nothing magically updates them underneath me breaking all my code. but is there a way to find out if any of my project deps have a newer version?
11:37	borkdude	jonathanj lein ancient
11:37	justin_smith	jonathanj: lein ancient
11:37	jonathanj	guess that's a lein plugin i need to depend on
11:37	ordnungswidrig	borkdude: valid-entity-length? => false
11:39	borkdude	ordnungswidrig ok. I was thinking of returning a 413. I'll try valid-entity-lenght? and see what happens
11:40	ordnungswidrig	borkdude: liberator will return a 413 if valid-entity-length? returns false
11:40	borkdude	ordnungswidrig cool. I didn't see it in the decision graph, so I wondered
11:40	clgv	~emacs
11:40	clojurebot	emacs is finicky to configure and often broken
11:41	ordnungswidrig	borkdude: it comes after `known-content-type`
11:41	borkdude	ordnungswidrig you're right. I see it now. A bit blind I guess :)
11:42	justin_smith	borkdude: I think Control-f works in svg
11:42	ordnungswidrig	borkdude: well, there's always the list of decisions which is search-able. But you need to know what to search for
11:42	sritchie	hey all - I’m looking at shadow build and seeing something about lein run I hadn’t known
11:42	borkdude	justin_smith yes, I done that, but I could not find 413. It seems in the decision graph the arrow goes to 415
11:42	clgv	borkdude: that monster graph might need an interactive search ;)
11:42	sritchie	if you provide a keyword like :project/cljs to lein run, does that fetch that entry in the project map?
11:43	justin_smith	borkdude: oh, OK
11:43	borkdude	ordnungswidrig the arrow at false goes to 415. https://clojure-liberator.github.io/liberator/assets/img/decision-graph.svg
11:43	borkdude	ordnungswidrig I searched for 413, that's why I could't find it :)
11:43	justin_smith	borkdude: I just found it under 413
11:44	justin_smith	https://clojure-liberator.github.io/liberator/assets/img/decision-graph.svg
11:44	justin_smith	on the left side, right under 503
11:44	ordnungswidrig	justin_smith: oh, I guess that is outdated grr
11:44	justin_smith	ordnungswidrig: oh, the one I linked to is outdated?
11:44	ordnungswidrig	oh no, that's the right one but there' a 413 left of 422 for me?!
11:45	borkdude	ah dude, I'm really blind today :)
11:45	borkdude	ordnungswidrig justin_smith you're right, sorry
11:45	justin_smith	yes, and under 503, or se of it :)
11:45	ordnungswidrig	hahaa
11:45	justin_smith	ordnungswidrig: perhaps I miscommunicated
11:46	ordnungswidrig	borkdude: so we're fine?
11:46	borkdude	ordnungswidrig absolutely.
11:46	sritchie	anyone know about passing :project/key args in lein?
11:46	sritchie	to lein run
11:47	ordnungswidrig	,anyone
11:47	stuartsierra	When did org-clojure get CIDER support?
11:47	clojurebot	#error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: anyone in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: anyone in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: anyone in this context", :at [...
11:47	ordnungswidrig	stuartsierra: CIDER support?!
11:47	stuartsierra	http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-clojure.html
11:47	justin_smith	sritchie: args to lein run will be the args passed to -main, and all be strings, right?
11:47	sritchie	except for this cryptic comment: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/src/leiningen/run.clj#L146
11:48	sritchie	justin_smith: and the examples in shadow-build have you passing :project/cljs
11:48	ordnungswidrig	stuartsierra: sweeeeet
11:48	sritchie	which I think grabs that entry out of project.clj
11:48	stuartsierra	Haven't tried it yet; I rolled my own org-clojure a while ago.
11:48	sritchie	justin_smith: trying to find the piece of code that handles that though
11:48	justin_smith	sritchie: wow, that's a weird feature
11:48	sritchie	yup, undocumented as far as I ca tell
11:53	borkdude	I just noticed that a method call also works in thread-first: (-> ctx :tempfile .length)
11:54	justin_smith	borkdude: also works with doto
11:54	ordnungswidrig	borkdude, justin_smith: did that change recently? I'm pretty sure that there was a time where that would not work
11:54	clgv	justin_smith: but borkdude is probably interested in that value of .length ;)
11:55	justin_smith	clgv: yes, related fact
11:55	clgv	ordnungswidrig: no always worked since 1.2.1
11:55	Bronsa	ordnungswidrig: always worked afaik
11:55	justin_smith	ordnungswidrig: I don't ever remember it not working
11:55	clgv	ordnungswidrig: you might get problems with typehints depending on the concrete form
11:59	_kardan	Anyone familiar with Bidi? I'm trying to use redirects but can't get it to work https://gist.github.com/kardan/8758aa14ca8c90970bcc what am I doing wrong?
12:00	sritchie	justin_smith: boom: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/main.clj#L251
12:00	ordnungswidrig	_kardan: I think you must not wrap the #".*" in brackets.
12:01	justin_smith	sritchie: there it is. Still think it's a weird feature :)
12:01	sritchie	yeah, definitely
12:01	sritchie	especially because you can’t nest -
12:02	sritchie	I was looking into this because I wanted to provide shadow with a config for each of two profiles
12:02	sritchie	the fact that you can only pull top level keys is odd
12:02	justin_smith	sritchie: and because ideally lein shouldn't even be present at production run time
12:03	sritchie	yeah, the “prod” build would be more for building the production version of clojurescript
12:08	_kardan	ordnungwidrig true, but didn't fix my issue. Thanks anyway
12:08	borkdude	is is possible to get the reponse's status with Google Closure iframeIo?
12:09	nullptr	borkdude: you can know it failed but i don't think you can get the specific response code/status
12:10	borkdude	nullptr ok
12:10	nullptr	actually -- that's just from the event
12:10	nullptr	looks like it has getLastErrorCode and getLastError
12:13	borkdude	nullptr in the case of a 413 response, the success is still true. but I can just use the innerHTML to see if the file was too big
12:14	nullptr	borkdude: it looks like there's a setErrorChecker hook there so you could probably inject your check there to influence isSuccess
12:15	borkdude	nullptr it does not even reach the error state
12:15	borkdude	nullptr oh wait, sorry, my bad
12:15	borkdude	nullptr I'll try it
12:16	anti-freeze	Hey everyone. Does anyone know how I add a custom if statement in selmer? I want to add an if-authenticated block
12:18	anti-freeze	Maybe just a function or something to check if the user is authenticated?
12:19	clgv	anti-freeze: cant't you just use an authenticated property?
12:19	anti-freeze	clgv: You mean passing it as a parameter after every render?
12:19	anti-freeze	before*
12:19	anti-freeze	so (render-file "auth.html" {:authenticated false})
12:20	clgv	yeah, just include that property to your property map
12:22	anti-freeze	clgv: I would, but this is needed for every single render, as its in the base template. I found something in the selmer source, maybe it could help. https://github.com/yogthos/Selmer/blob/master/src/selmer/tags.clj
12:24	borkdude	nullptr thanks for that suggestion. works great :)
12:25	clgv	anti-freeze: so? there might be other properties you also need in the base template sooner or later
12:26	anti-freeze	clgv: I do, but passing the same thing around to every template seems a little annoying, considering I can just check that value against the session :identity key
12:26	clgv	anti-freeze: ah, right, I'd have a central function for rendering which takes care of such properties
12:26	clgv	anti-freeze: humm, a tag could be possible solution, not entirely sure
12:30	noncom	how do i set charset for a post request in clj-http?
12:30	noncom	(for a multipart post request)
12:30	anti-freeze	clgv: I'll give it a shot and report back
12:45	anti-freeze	clgv: Still no luck. I get compiler errors
12:46	anti-freeze	clgv: https://www.refheap.com/98909
12:48	clgv	anti-freeze: I did not implement a tag myself so far...
12:49	anti-freeze	clgv: This is beginning to annoy me. See, I need it for base.html which is where all other templates extend from. It would be horrible if I had to pass it as a parameter with every request
12:50	clgv	anti-freeze: can't you implement the single render function (render-template url, prop-map) that adds the auth property to prop-map before rendering with selmer?
12:50	clgv	anti-freeze: pretty easy fix ;)
12:51	anti-freeze	clgv: Maybe. I'll give selmer another go and then I'll just do that. Not the best fix however
12:51	clgv	anti-freeze: why?
12:51	anti-freeze	clgv: I don't know. I used selmer because of its "extensibility"
12:52	clgv	anti-freeze: ah ok. well, read up on the docs - maybe you overlooked some info on custom tags
12:56	supersym	you know what I love about Clojure? Every time I think "Hey, let's try and see if this or that works....", it actually does.
12:57	supersym	contrary to my recent php experiences which were the exact opposite ... lol
12:57	clgv	haha :D
13:01	borkdude	just checking, but would processable? be the correct decision point to check wether an upload is an image?
13:02	borkdude	in liberator that is
13:02	supersym	erh depends I guess? sometimes client side but you mention upload, as in its on the server already?
13:02	supersym	ah
13:04	borkdude	supersym yes, I don't trust my clients ;)
13:19	sritchie	anyone here using shadow-build, or its live reload feature?
13:21	borkdude	cool library: pantomime. (-> picture :tempfile mime-type-of image?)
13:28	timvisher	poll: Clojure version of 'pythonic'?
13:28	timvisher	i tend to say 'clojurey' but that both looks and sounds a little dumb to me (^_^)
13:28	timvisher	'clojury'?
13:28	timvisher	:\
13:29	justin_smith	I tend to just call it "OK" as in "that code's OK" or "that isn't actually OK"
13:29	justin_smith	but perhaps there should be a clojure flavored version of that
13:29	justin_smith	:clojure/acceptable?
13:31	Glenjamin	"simple"
13:31	justin_smith	(inc Glenjamin)
13:31	lazybot	⇒ 17
13:31	clgv	O_o
13:32	Glenjamin	although knowing to use (next) over (rest), (seq) over (empty?) etc
13:32	Glenjamin	i guess that's more what we're talking about
13:42	sritchie	tomjack: hey, are you https://github.com/tomjakubowski by any chance?
13:43	bendlas	timvisher: I'd have to say 'idiomatic'
13:43	bendlas	even though that can be used in other languages as well, it's particularly idiomatic to call something 'idiomatic' in clojure
13:44	dnolen	sritchie: tjakubow is who you're looking for
13:44	sritchie	dnolen: you might be interested in this “bug” I found, as it might come up -
13:44	sritchie	dnolen: shadow-build implements live-reloading with goog.isProvided_
13:44	sritchie	https://github.com/thheller/shadow-build/blob/fe129c26d68572991ef1ccdbd1da8e4dfbdb6277/src/cljs/shadow/cljs/live_reload.cljs#L26
13:44	dnolen	sritchie: I don't use shadow-build
13:45	dnolen	sritchie: and I'm becoming less interested in what other tools are doing, it's too hard to follow now
13:45	sritchie	dnolen: for sure. just wanted to thank you, since I think your patch here fixed that issue https://github.com/tomjakubowski/weasel/pull/54/files
13:45	dnolen	sritchie: that logic also incorrect
13:46	dnolen	sritchie: see cljs.browser.repl/bootstrap
13:46	dnolen	anything else is not going to work
13:46	sritchie	thanks, I’ll get a patch up
13:46	dnolen	sritchie: just load that ns and call it, it's meant to be reused
13:47	sritchie	dnolen: you mean in weasel
13:47	dnolen	sritchie: that's right, there's already a PR for this, or comment about it
13:48	dnolen	hrm or I thought there was ...
13:49	sritchie	https://github.com/tomjakubowski/weasel/blob/master/src/cljs/weasel/repl.cljs
13:49	sritchie	dnolen: looks like you handled it already
13:49	sritchie	5 days after that other commit I sent
13:50	dnolen	sritchie: heh
13:50	dnolen	sritchie: yeah cemerick has been fixing up piggieback pretty good, it should just work if you're willing to go bleeding edge
13:50	timvisher	all of these suggestions are generic though
13:51	sritchie	dnolen: anyway, this “only reload required things” is a busted optimization, since you might want to redefine multimethods that never get explicitly required
13:51	dnolen	otherwise, wait till he announces this stuff, we're releasing a version of ClojureScript just for nREPL users
13:51	timvisher	as in they'd be just as applicable in any community
13:51	timvisher	i would always want my code to be 'simple', 'idiomatic' etc.
13:51	dnolen	sritchie: I don't follow
13:52	timvisher	but it sounds like no one has a phrase that does that :)
13:52	timvisher	how can i reload a defrecord that implements a protocol at the repl?
13:52	sritchie	dnolen: was referencing two things - 1 is that I’ve got a multimethod based system for defining client side and server side page state data. Some of the client side multimethod definitions are in cljx files that aren’t required by cljs,
13:53	sritchie	dnolen: but their multimethod implementations are still registered under simple or advanced compilation, since they get jammed into the final loaded file
13:53	cemerick	sritchie: piggieback 0.2.0-SNAPSHOT is looking pretty decent with the latest CLJS; just check the "installation" note in piggieback's readme
13:53	sritchie	dnolen: in :none mode, they get ignored, so I have to explicitly require those namespaces to get the multimethod registrations
13:53	sritchie	dnolen: 2nd pt was that shadow tries to optimize by only reloading files that have been required by some namespace: https://github.com/thheller/shadow-build/blob/fe129c26d68572991ef1ccdbd1da8e4dfbdb6277/src/cljs/shadow/cljs/live_reload.cljs#L23
13:54	sritchie	dnolen: which 1) will always fail in :none mode if you’ve got a repl running, and 2) will cause the files containing those multimethods I mentioned above to never reload
13:54	sritchie	dnolen: sorry, getting into details you just said you wanted to avoid :)
13:54	dnolen	sritchie: right I don't care about this stuff at all :)
13:55	dnolen	sritchie: to the 1st point, that's just not going to change, :simple and :none just pull everything in the src directory in which is pretty obnoxious
13:55	dnolen	sritchie: you have to use the classpath to get customized builds which is outrageous in my opinion
13:56	dnolen	in the future :simple and higher will take :main to control what's in a build
13:56	sritchie	dnolen: yup, that’s what I’m doing, and agreed
13:56	sritchie	dnolen: psyched for the modules stuff, btw -
13:57	sritchie	dnolen: btw - racehubhq.com launched, full client side, written in Om
13:57	dnolen	sritchie: yeah, it's pretty awesome if you're building a big app
13:57	sritchie	dnolen: still some rough edges. modules are important for hiding a bunch of the admin-only stuff, like the timing app
13:57	dnolen	sritchie: 502 :(, but awesome!
13:57	sritchie	dnolen: Om baby! nice. so much for the change I just pushed.
14:21	sritchie	dnolen: fixed https://racehubhq.com/
14:22	dnolen	sritchie: looks real sweet :)
14:23	sritchie	working on writing up the routing stuff I built for this + sente
14:23	sritchie	thanks again for Om! the transition to client side’s been really fun because of it.
14:24	dnolen	sritchie: np, glad to hear it! Looking forward to getting back to it, got some goodies planned in the near future once the ClojureScript REPL stuff is behind us.
14:27	sritchie	cemerick: did that piggieback issue, or tools.nrepl issue, with resetting to cljs.user every time ever get fixed?
14:28	sritchie	I upgraded to piggieback 0.1.5 and tools.nrepl 0.2.7, but still no dice
14:29	cemerick	sritchie: not aware of the issue, but you should be using 0.2.0-SNAPSHOT & nREPL 0.2.10 if you're running the newest CLJS stuff
14:29	sritchie	https://github.com/tomjakubowski/weasel/issues/26
14:29	sritchie	you’ve commented on the issue, I believe
14:29	sritchie	“latest cider on melpa” is probably the issue
14:30	bendlas	sritchie: I had that issue, but it went away a couple of weeks ago
14:31	cemerick	sritchie: oh, that. I think that was always a cider issue; nothing related changed in piggieback/nREPL
14:32	sritchie	cool
14:32	cemerick	sritchie: in any case, 0.2.0 is basically a rewrite to support the latest CLJS REPL bits
14:32	sritchie	nice
14:32	cemerick	So any issues reported < 4 days ago are obsolete :-P
14:32	sritchie	compatible w/ the latest weasel etc?
14:33	cemerick	sritchie: should be? Works well w/ nashorn, rhino, node, brepl, and ambly. Haven't gotten a weasel report either way yet.
14:33	sritchie	okay, cool
14:33	sritchie	thanks! I’ll try the upgrade after locking down this shadow-build live reload thing
14:37	dah	dnolen: been thinking an osascript ClojureScript REPL backend could be fun for OS X automation
14:38	dah	.. or even building full blown Cocoa applications i guess
14:39	dnolen	dah: sounds like a reasonable idea to me, mfikes has already done a ton of this work in Ambly/Shrimp
14:41	dah	dnolen: cool, thanks for the pointer
14:44	anti-freeze	dah: Haha, pointers...
15:06	mikerod	are there any good sources out there to explain what `print-dup` is?
15:06	mikerod	I sort of get it.
15:06	mikerod	but I just would like to read something more "official"
15:06	mikerod	I saw some ancient mailing list stuff where Rich briefly discussed it (no link at the moment).
15:07	mikerod	what does "dup" even stand for?
15:07	mikerod	duplicate I think
15:07	profil	is there a way to get index when using for? (for [x [1 2 3 4 5]] (prn x "is at index: " x-index))
15:07	patrickgombert	mikerod: my understanding is that it is for serialization
15:08	mikerod	patrickgombert: yes
15:08	mikerod	it allows more objects to have a reader-friendly print
15:09	ro_st	profil: no, you'll need to use map-indexed
15:09	joegallo	profil: (for [[i x] (map-indexed vector [:a :b :c])] ...)
15:09	joegallo	not exactly what you wanted, but it works
15:09	ro_st	or do what joegallo says. nice one
15:09	mikerod	by reader-friendly, I mean they can be read back in and eval'ed back to life
15:10	profil	I'm thinking that I could change the for into a map-indexed instead..
15:10	joegallo	ah, that's only if you absolutely must use for -- alternatively you could fold your for's body into the fn arg to map-indexed
15:10	joegallo	profil, yes, exactly :)
15:10	mikerod	I guess it is just a hook to make arbitrary ways to represent data to be serialized and then read back in later - I think it requires read with eval enabled.
15:12	amalloy	mikerod: right. also, it tends to get sorta out of date because nobody uses print-dup
15:12	amalloy	i know there were some cases in the past where print-dup on some kind of uncommon data structure (maybe treemap?) printed a call to a constructor that doesn't exist anymore
15:13	dyba	I'm reading Let Over Lambda and noticed some interesting difference between Common Lisp and Clojure when defining the nif macro:
15:13	dyba	(defmacro nif [expr pos zero neg] `(cond (pos? ~expr) ~pos (zero? ~expr) ~zero :else ~neg))
15:14	dyba	Clojure expands it to: (if (clojure.core/pos? 0) "Pos" (clojure.core/cond (clojure.core/zero? 0) "Zero" :else "Neg"))
15:14	dyba	But CL expands it to the result "Pos", "Zero" or "Neg"
15:14	amalloy	dyba: no it doesn't. you are using the macroexpander in CL wrong, or defining the macro wrong
15:15	dyba	amalloy: perhaps I did, I used CL's macroexpand function
15:16	dyba	Are they different?
15:16	amalloy	no. but perhaps you forgot to quote the expression to expand, for example
15:16	dyba	Hm, good catch. Let me try it again
15:18	amalloy	dyba: also, try using macroexpand-1
15:19	amalloy	i'm trying it in clisp, and it looks like the macroexpander is smart enough to elide checks that it knows will be true or knows will be false
15:19	amalloy	so you want to expand only your own macro, not the further macro that it expands to
15:19	amalloy	[10]> (macroexpand-1 '(nif -1 1 2 3)) ;=> (COND ((< 0 -1) 1) ((EQUALP 0 -1) 2) (T 3))
15:19	amalloy	where i basically never use CL so i don't remember if equalp is the right predicate to use or what
15:22	dyba	amalloy: yup it works with macroexpand-1
15:22	dyba	macroexpand gives me the evaluated result
15:23	dyba	And I am using a quote in front of the expression I'm passing to macroexpand
15:25	amalloy	dyba: yeah, i was surprised to discover that = and < have uh...compiler macros, i guess, associated with the functions for them
15:25	amalloy	so like if you expanded '(nif x 1 2 3), you'd get the full cond tree
15:25	amalloy	but '(nif 0 1 2 3) it knows how to evaluate at compile time
15:27	dyba	amalloy: Ah, I see what you mean
15:29	dyba	amalloy: so what you're saying this behavior in CL suggests that = is likely built with a compiler macro?
15:29	dyba	saying is that*
15:29	amalloy	well, = is a built-in function, and appears to have a compiler macro as well
15:30	amalloy	in theory it could be special-cased by the macroexpander, but probably it is just a compiler macro
15:34	danlentz	if you are interested in CL compiler macros, there is a short presentation given my arthur lemmens floating around out there
15:34	danlentz	http://www.pentaside.org/paper/compilermacro-lemmens/compiler-macros-for-publication.txt
15:36	amalloy	danlentz: i understand the idea of compiler macros, but i don't know whether = uses one, or how i would confirm my expectation that it does
15:37	danlentz	can’t you call (compiler-macro-function ‘=)
15:38	amalloy	danlentz: apparently not. but i wouldn't have known to try that; i never use CL
15:39	danlentz	compiler-macros are somewhat heady stuff. I worked in CL for a number of years and pretty rarely came into contact with them.
15:40	amalloy	danlentz: rarely noticed coming into contact with them, anyway
15:40	danlentz	yes, you’re right.
15:41	dyba	danlentz: that presentation helped with having a better understanding of the idea of compiler macros
15:41	dyba	thanks!
15:41	danlentz	reading through this paper again, the use-case of translating n-ary to binary functions is interesting.
15:42	danlentz	yeah, im just rereading it and thinking the same thing.
15:42	amalloy	danlentz: clojure has its own version of compiler macros too, mostly for the primitive math stuff
15:42	danlentz	arthur lemmens is really an iconic common-lisper. I spent my first year or so of CL studying his persistent object-store called Rucksack
15:43	dyba	I don't use CL but reading Let Over Lambda requires having some basic understanding of that language
15:43	danlentz	shit yeah it does
15:43	dyba	Which is why I asked the question originally
15:43	danlentz	that is a hard book
15:43	amalloy	eg, see the definition of nil?, which has in its metadata {:inline (fn [x] (list 'clojure.lang.Util/identical x nil))}
15:44	dyba	danlentz: you're telling me! ;) Definitely not an easy read
15:44	danlentz	if you look in my CL-CTRIE project I have a dlambda, plambda
15:44	dyba	I haven't read that chapter yet; I'm currently on ch. 3
15:44	danlentz	https://github.com/danlentz/cl-ctrie/blob/master/ctrie-lambda.lisp
15:44	dyba	The once only macro
15:45	dyba	Sweet!
15:45	danlentz	dyba: did you read paul graham first?
15:45	dyba	I'm bookmarking that and coming back to it when I get to that chapter
15:45	dyba	danlentz: You mean On Lisp?
15:45	danlentz	y
15:45	dyba	I'm reading that one too
15:45	dyba	Just got past the first chapter
15:45	danlentz	its good to read that first — its mostly about macros
15:46	danlentz	LoL is on the edge of the discovered macro universe. On Lisp covers the stuff that may come in more handy day to day.
15:47	danlentz	but I love that book, awesome to see clojurians reading it!
15:50	danlentz	however, I have to warn you, anytime I show a client code with “pandoric-lambda” in it they make a scrunchy face like I just fed them lemons
15:50	dyba	danlentz: I'll keep that in mind. I'm reading LoL first because I have a hard copy of it. On Lisp is out of print last I checked. And it sells for hundreds of dollars on Amazon.
15:50	danlentz	its free
15:50	dyba	I downloaded the free PDF, but I still like to have the book on my hand
15:50	danlentz	oh
15:51	dyba	danlentz: lol
15:51	danlentz	i do understand. I print stuff out and bind it nicely with a stiff paperboard backing (cut from a heavy duty binder) and poly cover
15:51	dyba	(the popular lol) ;)
15:52	dyba	I think I will do that with On Lisp, so that I can write on the margins of the pages
15:52	danlentz	dyba: what I love is the pandoric-lambda from LoL though
15:53	danlentz	and the entire concept of “sub-lexical scope”
15:53	dyba	what chapter are those topics on?
15:54	danlentz	dont remember offhand. the entire first part of the book builds up to pandoric-lambda
15:54	dyba	Ah I found them
15:54	danlentz	then he goes back and does other stuff like a forth interpreter
15:56	danlentz	I think clojure macros are quite a bit easier to work with than in common-lisp, just because the gensyms are so easy syntactically
15:57	danlentz	I might be slow, but it took me a couple of years to work though LoL
15:58	danlentz	because it wasnt continuous. I’d read until I was thoroughly baffled, then put the book down for 6 months and try again.
16:00	dyba	danlentz: "Should you experience headaches or other discomfort through the course of this book, I recommend that you immediately execute a garbage collection cycle (get some sleep), then return with a fresh and open mind"
16:00	danlentz	usually until I saw something in the outside world that I connected with the book and somehow made something “click” — then I’d get 10 pages further until baffled again.
16:27	danlentz	dyba: if you do cut and paste the code, at line 133 there is a (defun/inline …) form that is just syntactic sugar to define a function and declare it ‘inline’ all with one form.
16:28	dyba	danlentz: I'll keep that in mind
16:28	danlentz	you would need to change that or copy the defun/inline macro: https://github.com/danlentz/cl-ctrie/blob/master/common-macro.lisp#L38
16:30	danlentz	there are some other useful examples of macros in that file, if you are interested
16:30	danlentz	like, you were talking about “once only”
16:31	danlentz	https://github.com/danlentz/cl-ctrie/blob/master/common-macro.lisp#L74 defines a defmacro/once macro
16:35	edbond	how to get matched value from map of regexp => value? (<somefns> { #"a" 42, #"b" 99 } "bbb") ;; 99
16:36	edbond	possible direction, what fns to look at?
16:36	gfredericks	some could probably help
16:36	gfredericks	,(doc some)
16:36	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example this will return :fred if :fred is in the sequence, otherwise nil: (some #{:fred} coll)"
16:36	chouser	or keep, depending on if you want more than one result
16:37	edbond	just first result
16:37	chouser	and of course re-find
16:37	edbond	thanks
16:37	edbond	,(inc gfredericks)
16:37	clojurebot	#error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: gfredericks in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: gfredericks in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: gfredericks in this ...
16:37	gfredericks	,(def gfredericks 41)
16:37	clojurebot	#'sandbox/gfredericks
16:37	edbond	,(inc gfredericks)
16:37	clojurebot	42
16:37	edbond	nice
16:38	edbond	(inc gfredericks)
16:38	lazybot	⇒ 129
16:39	danlentz	,danlentz
16:39	clojurebot	#error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: danlentz in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: danlentz in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: danlentz in this context",...
16:40	danlentz	,(def danlentz Math/PI)
16:40	clojurebot	#'sandbox/danlentz
16:40	gfredericks	,(inc danlentz)
16:40	clojurebot	4.141592653589793
16:40	gfredericks	$google zip code 41415
16:40	lazybot	[41415 Rayburn Dr, Northville, MI 48168 is Recently Sold \| Zillow] http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/41415-Rayburn-Dr-Northville-MI-48168/88392796_zpid/
16:41	danlentz	wow
16:41	danlentz	$google clj-uuid
16:41	lazybot	[danlentz/clj-uuid · GitHub] https://github.com/danlentz/clj-uuid
16:42	danlentz	cool!
16:46	ben_vulpes	yo so cider is eating print statements in my http-kit webapp :(
16:46	ben_vulpes	lein repl commits no such crime
16:46	ben_vulpes	halp wat do
16:46	danlentz	,(java.util.UUID/randomUUID)
16:46	clojurebot	#uuid "a296e782-0372-4a7b-996d-9ef25a5437d2"
16:48	danlentz	ben_vulpes: check other window
16:48	danlentz	?
16:48	ben_vulpes	other...window?
16:48	ben_vulpes	cider-error?
16:48	ben_vulpes	nrepl-connection?
16:49	ben_vulpes	danlentz:
16:50	danlentz	well, there are a limited number of them, check them all
16:51	danlentz	i mean, what I am asking is if maybe you are doing IO on a background thread and it is directed to the console rather than cider
16:51	danlentz	but ive never done anything with http-kit so that is just a stab in the dark on general principle
16:52	ben_vulpes	danlentz: the only relevant buffers i have at hand are nrepl-server and cider-repl
16:52	ben_vulpes	what would be different in execution between cider via emacs and lein repl?
16:52	ben_vulpes	i'm way out of my depth on this one.
16:52	ben_vulpes	iirc i've seen this in ring as well
16:52	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: it's an old bug
16:53	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: cider rebinds out but that does not propagate to your ringer server's threads
16:53	ben_vulpes	aha that sounds right
16:53	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: so any printing from them go to the initial value of out, which is either an nrepl-server buffer, or the terminal where you started up from, or whatever
16:55	ben_vulpes	agh fuck
16:55	ben_vulpes	https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/pull/818
16:56	ben_vulpes	dude
16:56	ben_vulpes	can i just use slime?
16:56	ben_vulpes	and mebbe nrepl?
16:56	danlentz	things work like this in CL/slime as well
16:57	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: the bug doesn't come up in inferior-lisp, if you don't mind doing things caveman style
16:57	danlentz	I never thought of it as a “bug"
16:57	ben_vulpes	you never thought the dropping of print statements on the floor was a bug?
16:57	justin_smith	danlentz: the difference is that with slime, the process buffer (default root out) is also the repl buffer
16:57	justin_smith	danlentz: this is not the case in cider
16:58	danlentz	the behaviour of special variables between/among thread I mean
16:59	justin_smith	yeah, that's slightly orthogonal to the UI disaster in cider
16:59	justin_smith	last comment in that thread: "I submit that having the application's standard output, including log output, in a buffer separate from interactive REPL output is desireable. I would go so far as to call it a feature."
17:00	justin_smith	there you have it, cider author has declared that not outputting to the cider repl buffer is a feature
17:01	danlentz	well that is bizarre
17:01	danlentz	but I agree with the idea of not having out bound to the cider-repl in all threads
17:03	justin_smith	I think separating output between buffers, defaulting to a buffer that never pops to the front, should be an opt-in thing
17:04	justin_smith	As a naive new user, I'd rather deal with messy output cluttering a buffer, than output that I expect never being visible
17:05	ben_vulpes	especially since it's such a radical divergence from how the time tested and battle hardened tools elsewhere in the lisp universe behave in my limited experience.
17:05	danlentz	it seems normal to me
17:05	danlentz	well, the default output from the foreground should go to the repl. background threads all go to the console.
17:06	danlentz	i’ve been donating $10 a week to the cider project
17:06	justin_smith	I long ago ditched cider for inferior-lisp
17:07	ben_vulpes	justin_smith: i think i'll have to hit you up for a crash course on inferior lisp here shortly
17:07	danlentz	i want it to get better, but it didnt happen overnight with slime either — thats for sure.
17:08	ben_vulpes	what would be the cider-y solution?
17:08	justin_smith	hehe, just to warn you it is seriously feature deprived. But it isn't constantly broken, and is never surprising to me.
17:08	ben_vulpes	i don't need much by way of features
17:08	ben_vulpes	i've got helm
17:08	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: another option is monroe
17:09	ben_vulpes	"simple installation without any dependencies, except Emacs"
17:09	ben_vulpes	ahahaha
17:09	ben_vulpes	i guess theoretically emacs could be just a single dep
17:12	danlentz	i think the reason is that output to the CIDER nrepl buffer is very slow. Even a modest amout of printing is going to “freeze” things up a bit.
17:13	justin_smith	danlentz: do you mean the cider-nrepl (aka console) or cider repl (aka the repl)
17:13	danlentz	the cider repl in my emacs window
17:14	justin_smith	danlentz: the reason I ask is that the hidden console output (not a repl) is actually called cider-nrepl or something very close to that
17:14	justin_smith	the buffer that most people never see, and they think prints that end up there never happened
17:15	danlentz	I gave up keeping track of what things were being called a while ago…. :)
17:15	Frozenlock	justin_smith: it's really aggravating when it occurs...
17:15	Frozenlock	"Where is my print? I'm sure I added a print somewhere..."
17:15	justin_smith	Frozenlock: yes, I would disagree with the official stance and call it a bug actually.
17:17	danlentz	if you are doing a lot of that, might it make sense to consider a logging package, which in many cases will be much faster than printing to console and light years faster than printing to Cider repl
17:17	danlentz	buffered output and so forth
17:17	justin_smith	danlentz: the logger will end up printing to the console, unless you set up a log file
17:17	danlentz	right'
17:17	danlentz	i mean, just a suggestion
17:18	danlentz	and then tail -f the log file, I mean
17:18	justin_smith	danlentz: M-x auto-revert-tail-mode
17:19	Frozenlock	M-x butterfly
17:21	Frozenlock	I used to have plenty of problems with Cider, but I don't anymore. I also don't live on the edge. I found a stable version and I stick with it (for now).
17:21	danlentz	y i pulled back from the edge a few months ago myself
17:21	Frozenlock	The only bad thing I can think of is connecting to a remote repl with a poor connection: the autocomplete is sloooow
17:22	danlentz	the edge is rather pointy these days
17:24	Frozenlock	I wonder if we could find a correlation between the number of issues opened at any point and the expected user experience.
17:25	danlentz	my opinion is that the lack of willingness to cooperate by the SLIME developers hurt the clojure tooling (cider) and it is taking a while to draw even. But I think the result is that also cider may wind up to be the cleaner and more modern tool
17:25	danlentz	at some point.
17:25	danlentz	i miss the debugger
17:26	Frozenlock	danlentz: by what I understood, slime was a horrible mess. I would ask technomancy to chip in, but I don't think he's here. :-/
17:27	danlentz	i probably put off working with clojure for at least a couple of years just because it was problematic to use at the same time Slime for Clojure and Slime for CL
17:27	Frozenlock	danlentz: http://technomancy.us/163
17:27	danlentz	interesting
17:29	danlentz	i think he’s not saying that the SLIME developers were actively belligerent towards the idea
17:29	danlentz	which, having watched, was my impression
17:30	Frozenlock	About the debugger https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/694
17:31	danlentz	there were actually many contributed patches to the SLIME effort that the maintainers simply threw on the floor
17:32	danlentz	and they made it very difficult, as he said, for any project to fork and extend
17:34	danlentz	I really feel like the approach they took did more to harm the CL community than slow Clojure down all that much.
17:35	danlentz	attila lemdvai did some awesome patches that allowed you to use SLIME basically as a text-gui interface for your own app
17:36	danlentz	all that was required was that a couple of hooks be added into the trunk, and the use-case of SLIME could have really expanded to provide a sorely lacking facility: any sort of common front-end interface among lisps
17:37	p_l	danlentz: back in the day i always felt it had more to do with all yhe clojure patches I've seen being for a version considered outdated (but last tarballed)
17:39	danlentz	that would be a good sugestion for the Cider project: customizable “inspector” that allows you to design arbitrary CRUD layout
17:40	justin_smith	danlentz: hmm, what about something using GUD mode with jdb instead of the usual gdb?
17:40	danlentz	might be gud
17:40	danlentz	:)
17:41	justin_smith	GUD UI example http://tuhdo.github.io/static/c-ide/gdb-many-windows.gif
17:41	justin_smith	one window with stack frames, another with breakpoints, another showing locals, etc.
17:41	justin_smith	and threads
17:42	justin_smith	jdb provides all of that, I wonder how well elisp could extract sensible clojure info from all of it
18:03	xemdetia	gdb-many-windows the best friend
18:03	Lewix	why is that clojurist don't have an awesome newsletter like gooist
18:03	Lewix	or rubyist
18:04	amalloy	Lewix: you haven't written one yet
18:04	justin_smith	Lewix: we have one, we just decided not to invite you
18:04	om	eval is evil!
18:04	Lewix	amalloy: im not a clojurist yet
18:04	danlentz	what is that lambda-love newsletter
18:04	xemdetia	I mean clojure has a useful irc channel why do you need a newsletter
18:04	om	I have Enlive selector code (with fns) that I load from a config file.
18:04	Frozenlock	Lewix: the #clojure channel is like the official doc and the mailing list. All in one.
18:04	justin_smith	Lewix: we have (def newsletter) and the clojure gazette
18:04	Lewix	xemdetia: well to keep up to date in an efficient way? To promote clojure ?
18:05	om	Selectors are vectors. But at some point the fns (from enlive ns) have to be resolved.
18:05	bja	if I want to a map as a JSON value for HoneySQL, do i have to override the ToSql implementation for IPersistentMap (thus giving up subqueries)?
18:05	Lewix	justin_smith: i see. I'll google that
18:05	justin_smith	Lewix: http://defnewsletter.com/ http://www.clojuregazette.com/
18:05	om	I thought that the eval being done in the processing ns, I could call my function in another ns without requiring enlive there too. But this is where the eval happens indeed.
18:05	om	so it seems, eval is really evil!
18:06	justin_smith	om: also, eval is also very bad for performance
18:07	om	justin_smith: how would you proceed then, to have the fns is selectors being resolved?
18:08	danlentz	lewix: http://reborg.tumblr.com
18:08	danlentz	another “clojure weekly”
18:08	justin_smith	om: if possible, a simple mapping (via hash map) from symbols or keywords to the functions that are valid. This also prevents the "run arbitrary code" issue, or at least improves that situation.
18:08	danlentz	I endorse Clojure Weekly because he mentioned me last week :)
18:09	om	to give an idea : https://www.refheap.com/98916
18:09	om	justin_smith: this is exactly what I do
18:09	Lewix	danlentz: thanks
18:09	om	but I some point they have to be resolved? don't they?
18:10	justin_smith	om: well, if you use a hash map from symbol to function, then you don't need eval
18:10	justin_smith	it's a whitelist
18:10	om	justin_smith: really?
18:11	om	justin_smith: if I have, say, [[:table (left :table)] :> [:tr (left :tr)]] how do I get it resolve
18:11	danlentz	can you use “resolve” rather than eval?
18:11	om	left or enlive/left
18:12	danlentz	I mean, isnt a ns basically a hash map from symbol to function?
18:12	om	danlentz: I don't think so, I'll try again
18:13	justin_smith	om: (clojure.walk/post-walk #(if (symbol? %) (get {'left enlive/left} %) %) selector)
18:13	justin_smith	where you would selectively add the valid functions to the hash map
18:13	danlentz	oh i see
18:13	om	justin_smith: sure, but this doesn't give me a fn that I can pass to enlive: this is the problem
18:13	justin_smith	it's easier if the structure is more predictable, but post-walk will do the job
18:15	om	if you look to the few lines of code I posted, you will see remove-nodes to which I pass bunches of selectors taken from a vector
18:15	justin_smith	oh right, left is being called with args
18:16	om	the pb being that when remove-nodes is called from another ns, the later should have enlive required
18:17	justin_smith	om: this is the thing I am saying is fixed by inserting the actual functions into the form.
18:17	justin_smith	but I'm unfamiliar with this part of enlive
18:17	justin_smith	and some weird stuff is going on there
18:17	justin_smith	where clearly eval is the easy way to handle it
18:18	pandeiro	what is the idiomatic way to go from record -> plain map?
18:18	justin_smith	pandeiro: (into {} rec)
18:18	amalloy	pandeiro: don't define the record type to begin with is easiest
18:18	om	justin_smith: thanks a lot, maybe I misunderstood what you meant with postwalk here (because I use it a lot too)
18:18	amalloy	i think om is trying to run user-specified code at runtime, not just do some simple lookup to plug into an already-defined function
18:19	bja	can I temporarily extend-protocol something (i.e. in a thread-local way)?
18:19	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah, I think it's some enlive specific idiom going on too
18:19	amalloy	eval seems easier than trying to invent an entire interpreter for enlive selectors
18:19	dnolen	bja: you cannot
18:19	pandeiro	justin_smith: ok that works; amalloy: yeah neocons did it, not me
18:20	amalloy	pandeiro: why do you need it to be a map anyway, if you have a record already?
18:20	pandeiro	amalloy: serializing it to edn
18:20	om	amalloy: but then how do you avoid requiring the ns where the fns are defined (in my case enlive), in the ns calling my function (not sure I am clear)?
18:21	om	amalloy: I guess you can't
18:21	justin_smith	om: what about a post-walk and resolving all symbols?
18:21	amalloy	you don't. eval happens in a clean environment, usually in clojure.core or something, so if you want more names accessible you need to make them accessible in the code you're evaluating
18:21	amalloy	justin_smith: and then what? you still need to eval the result
18:21	om	because eval happens at "eval" time, hence my calling it evil
18:21	justin_smith	amalloy: right, but then they are fully qualified
18:21	om	oh, right
18:22	justin_smith	amalloy: wouldn't fully resolving any symbols make sure eval works?
18:22	amalloy	meh. just (eval `(do (require [enlive.whatever :refer :all]) ~the-user-code)))
18:22	om	I mean I do not eval in my function, but the eval happens when my function is called, right?
18:23	om	oh, seriously?
18:23	om	thanks
18:23	amalloy	om: that's what i'm saying. if you want the user code to have a specific environment set up, you just change the user code to set up that environment itself
18:24	om	I see, thanks to both of you
18:24	calhinshaw	I'm not sure this is the right place to ask, so let me know if it's not. I'm new to clojurescript webapps and having trouble getting routing working. I made a new luminus project with the +cljs option and added the goog.history code at http://yogthos.net/posts/2014-08-14-Routing-With-Secretary.html, but I can't get get the back button to work or get the urls i'm dispatching to display in the url bar. Does anyone have any suggest
18:24	calhinshaw	ions? Thanks.
18:24	om	pretty neat explanation (I did not get eval was happening in a 'clean' env)
18:27	sobel	so.. i'm having odd probles with floats (Float/parseFloat)
18:27	sobel	what type is a 'naked' decimal number? that may be my trouble
18:28	danlentz	that is the special “exhibitionist primitive” type
18:28	sobel	hah. i don't know if unboxed is the right term in clojure.
18:29	sobel	i lack words. that makes this (and google) harder.
18:29	danlentz	you have to watch out for contagion :)
18:29	justin_smith	sobel: float and double are unboxed, Float and Double are boxed
18:29	justin_smith	sobel: when the compiler gets the right hints, it can figure out when it doesn't need to box things
18:29	sobel	i have a vector of floats i parsed with Float/parseFloat, and when i try to filter one, it's not found. but when i filter for (Float/parseFloat "0.0943") it'sfound
18:29	danlentz	http://clojure.org/java_interop#Java%20Interop-Type%20Hints
18:30	sobel	aha, that settles it
18:30	sobel	justin_smith: thx
18:30	justin_smith	sobel: with clojure 1.7, there is a warn-on-boxed value for the unchecked-math setting
18:30	justin_smith	sobel: floating point equality is your problem
18:30	sobel	i suppose i don't really want Float/parseFloat. what's a better way to get numeric out of string?
18:31	justin_smith	,(= 0.0943 (Float/parseFloat "0.0943"))
18:31	clojurebot	false
18:31	justin_smith	sobel: ^^ that's your issue
18:31	sobel	justin_smith: yes, that was basically my isolated problem
18:31	justin_smith	sobel: read-string
18:31	justin_smith	or Double/parseDouble
18:32	justin_smith	,(= 0.0943 (Double/parseDouble "0.0943"))
18:32	clojurebot	true
18:32	justin_smith	but floating point equality is always going to be problematic
18:32	sobel	yeah, i'm familiar with the built-in problem on that
18:33	sobel	fwiw, 0.0 doesn't suffer the fp inequality issue at hand ;)
18:33	justin_smith	heh, I'd hope not
18:34	sobel	is there a simpler numeric conversion that doesn't involve eval?
18:34	justin_smith	sobel: parseDouble doesn't involve eval
18:34	justin_smith	read-string doesn't either
18:34	sobel	e.g. untrusted sources
18:35	sobel	is this doc outdated? Note that read-string can execute code (controlled by read-eval),
18:35	justin_smith	parseDouble is your safest bet if you know that will be the expected type
18:35	sobel	and as such should be used only with trusted sources.
18:35	justin_smith	right
18:35	justin_smith	so use parseDouble
18:35	justin_smith	or edn/read-string
18:35	danlentz	,(= (float 0.0943) (Float/parseFloat "0.0943"))
18:35	clojurebot	true
18:35	sobel	that'll be a boxed Double right?
18:35	justin_smith	sobel: absolutely
18:35	justin_smith	boxing was not your issue here
18:36	danlentz	,(= 0.0943 (Double/parseDouble "0.0943"))
18:36	clojurebot	true
18:36	danlentz	your issue is the default representation
18:36	sobel	ah ok
18:37	justin_smith	sobel: unboxed doubles can't be stand alone values, they can only be members of a double-array or arguments / return values of methods. Maybe they can be fields of some class too?
18:37	justin_smith	but they aren't objects
18:37	sobel	that's only a slight bit weird. i think i can digest it.
18:38	justin_smith	sobel: unboxed numerics exist so code can be fast
18:38	justin_smith	sobel: objects have overhead, sometimes we really don't want that overhead
18:38	sobel	mostly it's just a foible i hit on at the repl. the code that needs to care is actually ok, it's just obnoxious trying to validate it with tiny tests and hand-picked data.
18:39	yotsov	Hello. Is there a clojurescript equivalent of environ? Any way to pass build env variables to the code?
18:40	sobel	justin_smith: oh yeah, totally understood on boxing vs performance. i think my trouble was just expecting a cut & paste value to let me test my code when it was full of boxed values.
18:40	justin_smith	sobel: boxing was not your issue here
18:41	justin_smith	sobel: your issue was that 0.0943 as a literal, is a double in clojure
18:41	justin_smith	but you were creating floats from strings
18:41	justin_smith	floats and doubles have different resolution
18:41	om	amalloy: interestingly enough, doing a require in the eval raises a class not found exception
18:41	justin_smith	so they compare oddly
18:41	amalloy	om: oh sure, it needs to be quoted better
18:41	justin_smith	om: make sure to get your quoting right
18:41	amalloy	my example wasn't right
18:42	amalloy	(eval `(do (require ['~'enlive.whatever :refer :all]) ~the-user-code)))
18:42	om	well, syntax quoting should be enough no, why dequote
18:42	catern	yikes
18:42	catern	clojure gets pretty ugly with the quoting
18:43	om	thanks, amalloy, justin_smith
18:43	om	amalloy: why is the tilde "quoted"?
18:43	catern	thamalloy.
18:44	justin_smith	catern: sadly thjustin_smith just doesn't have the same ring to it
18:44	catern	thustin_smith!
18:45	sobel	justin_smith: i know, and i was looking right at it, thinking eh, should be ok at least to the ten-thoundths place!
18:46	sobel	anywho, thanks all
18:47	om	amalloy: got it to work (still did not fully catch the '~')
18:47	om	(inc amalloy)
18:47	lazybot	⇒ 243
18:47	amalloy	om: '~' is not a compound thing, it is just a combination of ', then ~, then '
18:47	sobel	this is my first commercial clojure project. being able to conveniently manipulate data is saving me numerous trips to the database. my input design seems to assume that you can't sort or merge data without sql.
18:48	justin_smith	(inc group-by)
18:48	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:48	om	amalloy: oh, you quote the unquote
18:48	amalloy	you want to emit 'enlive.whatever, with a quote in front of it, so you start with '. then, you want to not namespace-qualify enlive.whatever, so you write ~ to leave the ` context, and ' to enter a normal quoting context
18:49	catern	guys
18:49	catern	I need to write some clojure
18:49	catern	it's amazing
18:49	catern	some more*
18:49	catern	I did some trivial programming with it earlier
18:49	catern	and it was great
18:49	om	amalloy: excellent, thank you
18:49	catern	what trivial project should I do next?
18:49	justin_smith	jeapordy app
18:49	catern	what is clojure good at besides web apps and statistics?
18:49	justin_smith	(wrong kind of trivial)
18:50	sobel	justin_smith: once i can write the clojure-equivalent of sql exprs involving group by, order by, rank over, partition over, and having... there will be no more utility-trips to the db :)
18:50	justin_smith	sobel: well, group-by alreayd works at least, it would be nice to build a lib that has all of them
18:50	amalloy	justin_smith: pls, pronounce it like "gee-pordy" next time someone is talking about jeopardy
18:50	justin_smith	amalloy: uh, OK
18:51	justin_smith	my spelling is shit
18:51	amalloy	(the misspelling leads to a funny-sounding pronunciation)
18:51	justin_smith	yes
18:51	amalloy	although i guess the right spelling should be pronounced pretty funny too, if english made any sense
18:51	sobel	justin_smith: i'm new at this, but i'd hope all the basics (order by, group by, having) are available
18:51	justin_smith	sort-by, group-by, filter
18:51	sobel	i mean.. i used sort-by earlier today
18:52	sobel	i'd just need to figure out how to replace rank over and partition
18:52	catern	what's a good clojure library for simple geometry and drawing? Say I wanted to draw one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronoi_diagram
18:53	justin_smith	catern: I'd check out analemma if svg output is acceptable
18:53	catern	what about quil?
18:54	justin_smith	quil is kind of weird, but sure
18:54	catern	weird?
18:54	justin_smith	quil has its own main loop thing, and does a few things in ways that are not conventional
18:54	sobel	Swing is always quick & dirty
18:54	justin_smith	it wants to be like the clojure processing
18:55	jaen	Just trying some macro shenanigans and I can't figure out a way to refer to a some-gensym# that's outside a ~(expr) from inside it. Any way to do that? (I need to conditionally emit code in macro that uses this gensym)
18:55	amalloy	jaen: you can't
18:56	jaen	Damn, I suspected that : X
18:56	amalloy	you need to generate your own gensym by hand, if you want to use it in multiple contexts
18:56	jaen	amalloy: you mean like (gensym "name")?
18:57	amalloy	(let [x (gensym "x")] `(let [~x 1] ~(if whatever `(+ 1 ~x) `(- ~x 1))))
18:57	jaen	Ok, thanks : )
18:57	justin_smith	(inc `~'amalloy)
18:57	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:58	amalloy	,`~`~`~`~1
18:58	clojurebot	1
18:59	amalloy	tip: to make your code more confusing, just sprinkle some `~ into it at random
18:59	amalloy	it's like a 2-character identity function
18:59	sobel	soaking up excess readability
19:00	sobel	this language has everything, i swear
19:00	sobel	(pony)
19:00	justin_smith	,(`~`~get `~`~`~`~get `~`~`~`~`~`~`~get `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~get)
19:00	clojurebot	#object[clojure.core$get "clojure.core$get@40007a3a"]
19:00	amalloy	chuckle
19:02	sobel	and today, my big milestone was making intuitive sense out of the idiom (apply map vector [[ ... ]])
19:02	justin_smith	that's much more useful
19:03	sobel	starting to get some opinions on how this should be learned
19:22	irctc_	Would like to convert [{:year "2015" :grp "foo" :name "A"} {:year "2015" :grp "foo" :name "B"} {:year "2014" :grp "bar" :name "C"} {:year "2014" :grp "bar" :name "D"}] to..
19:22	irctc_	{"2015" {"foo" [{:year "2015" :grp "foo" :name "A"} {:year "2015" :grp "foo" :name "B"}]} "2014" {"bar" [{:year "2014" :grp "bar" :name "C"} {:year "2014" :grp "bar" :name "D"}]}}
19:24	oddcully	group-by?
19:24	irctc_	trying to use successive calls to group-by with a function signature like: (group-by-nest coll [:year :grp])
19:25	justin_smith	wait, where does the :grp part come in? they aren't grouped by it
19:26	amalloy	irctc_: http://stackoverflow.com/q/25480674/625403 looks like your question
19:26	justin_smith	maybe you just want to sort by it?
19:26	justin_smith	irctc_: oh, now I see, never mind
19:26	chouser	(into {} (for [[year v2] (group-by :year v)] [year (group-by :grp v2)]))
19:27	justin_smith	(inc chouser)
19:27	lazybot	⇒ 19
19:27	amalloy	chouser: works, but i like cgrand's version on stackoverflow better. avoids traversing the whole input multiple times
19:27	irctc_	amalloy: that looks like the one.. thanks.
19:28	chouser	though you rebuild the root map once for every element instead.
19:29	irctc_	chouser: thank you. will check that out too!
19:29	chouser	neither is cleanly parameterized on the set of keys to be extracted. bit of a shame.
19:30	hiredman	with some work you can turn cgrand's approach in to a transformation of a reducing function, and etc etc
19:30	hiredman	http://aphyr.github.io/tesser/tesser.core.html#var-group-by
19:30	amalloy	chouser: it's pretty easy to do that for cgrand's, though. yours isn't obviously possible to do that with
19:31	chouser	well, yes, generally if you have a solution from cgrand I'd go with that.
19:31	amalloy	wow how has cgrand's answer been there for so many years and the parens don't even balance
19:32	amalloy	oh i guess it's only last year
19:34	danlentz	should I just always use (defn foo ^Thing [] …) instead of (defn ^Thing foo [] …) ?
19:34	hiredman	no
19:34	danlentz	only primitives?
19:35	hiredman	you shouldn't do either until you've yelled at someone who can get patches in for a while
19:35	danlentz	in reading lein-eastwood I found out that all of my (defn ^long foo [] …) were not correct
19:35	hiredman	yeah
19:35	hiredman	for primitives that is correct
19:35	danlentz	so that is a pisser
19:35	amalloy	https://www.refheap.com/4d7acc00d8cbdf6e67afe77c2 - cgrand's answer, parameterized for the keys to index on
19:36	hiredman	,(doc clojure.set/index)
19:36	clojurebot	Huh?
19:36	hiredman	clojurebot: jerk
19:36	clojurebot	you cut me deep, man.
19:36	justin_smith	,(require 'clojure.set)
19:36	clojurebot	nil
19:37	justin_smith	(doc clojure.set/index)
19:37	clojurebot	"([xrel ks]); Returns a map of the distinct values of ks in the xrel mapped to a set of the maps in xrel with the corresponding values of ks."
19:37	danlentz	but (defn foo ^x.y.Thing [] ….) is correct, according to the eastwood page on :wrong-tag
19:37	hiredman	:/
19:37	danlentz	so wouldnt it be best to always just use type hints in that position and to just fully qualify them if needed?
19:37	danlentz	for consistency?
19:38	hiredman	danlentz: I am looking at the page for wrong tag, it says (defn foo ^x.y.Thing [] ….) is incorrect
19:39	hiredman	is that what you meant?
19:39	hiredman	danlentz: hilariously it was an attempt to bring consistency that left us in this state
19:40	danlentz	i’m kind of more bothered by this than most other rought edges ive run into
19:40	danlentz	i mean, this seems actually crazy
19:41	amalloy	danlentz: a lot of totally crazy things are explained by "historically x was true, so this crazy thing y made sense at the time"
19:41	danlentz	;; no warning for this since it is fully qualified
19:41	danlentz	(defn linklist3 ^java.util.LinkedList [coll] (java.util.LinkedList. coll))
19:42	danlentz	which one came first? putting the return type on the var?
19:42	amalloy	yes
19:42	danlentz	is the history of this written up somewhere?
19:42	hiredman	danlentz: I think you are confusing two different warnings about tags there
19:43	danlentz	well, two warnings but i dont think i have them confused
19:43	hiredman	danlentz: eastwood may warn about them in the same linter, but the full qualified classname is an entirely distinct issue from where the tag goes
19:43	danlentz	no not exactly
19:43	amalloy	hiredman: is it?
19:43	danlentz	because if the fully qualified classname is not supplied
19:44	danlentz	for meta on argument vecotr, then it will cause an error when used in another namespace
19:44	amalloy	my understanding is that if you put a fully-qualified classname on the arglist, it works "as intended", but an unqualified classname throws exceptions or something later
19:44	irctc_	amalloy: many thanks for the rewritten function on refheap!
19:44	hiredman	Oh of course, and that is the mess left by the attempt to unify them
19:44	danlentz	using fully qualified classname as tag on the argument vector resolves the issue
19:44	amalloy	right
19:45	danlentz	it is something that at very least would be really helpful to do a better job pointing out n the official clojure docs
19:45	danlentz	warn you that something unexpected is lurking
19:45	justin_smith	this reminds me of the repo I made to try to disambiguate this stuff
19:46	justin_smith	I should work on that again soon
19:46	danlentz	i kind of like the dunaj syntax approach myself
19:48	danlentz	so, type hints on the argument vector — are they
19:49	danlentz	so when I type hint an argument vector to indicate return value — is that “first class” metadata? If it is not associated with a var, would it be possible to introspect back out the return value type hint of a function?
19:49	danlentz	i can’t get at it with (meta var) obviously
19:55	qqq	!hello
19:55	qqq	!list
19:58	oskarkv	Hey! I just pushed this https://github.com/oskarkv/map-regexps Feel free to critique and comment about anything, it's my frist public lib
20:00	dnolen	inf-clojure can be made to work w/ ClojureScript, https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Emacs-%26-Inferior-Clojure-Interaction-Mode
20:01	TEttinger	that looks handy, oskarkv
20:01	dnolen	with a couple of tweaks to ClojureScript and couple of tweaks to inf-clojure could probably be made to work great
20:01	oskarkv	TEttinger I'm glad you think so :)
20:01	danlentz	oskarkv: this is interesting, nice work!
20:01	oskarkv	thanks
20:01	TEttinger	one odd quirk: {} has a meaning in textual regexps that could be useful to have an analogue to
20:02	TEttinger	,(re-find #"a{3}" "aardvark? aaaaaagh!")
20:02	clojurebot	"aaa"
20:02	oskarkv	Yeah
20:02	danlentz	what school are you doing clojure at, if you dont mind me asking
20:02	TEttinger	yeah, I'm also curious
20:02	gfredericks	TIL inf-clojrue
20:03	oskarkv	Royal institute of technology, sweden
20:03	bendlas	oskarkv: does it nest? like, can keys and values be regexp?
20:03	TEttinger	that's a good question, bendlas, since regular text regexps don't have a concept of nested strings
20:04	oskarkv	bendlas No, but maybe one could make it so
20:05	bendlas	oskarkv, TEttinger, yeah, I think it's kind of curious to have a grammar of concatenative (regexp) over context-free (maps)
20:05	TEttinger	oskarkv, yeah I think if this handled more than just sequences of maps, it could be more generally useful, but already it's a fairly novel technique to what previously was an annoyance in clojure code
20:05	TEttinger	*to solve what
20:06	bendlas	oskarkv: I like that you expose run-single-step. too many parsers overlook the need for incremental parsing
20:06	oskarkv	Right now keys are compared with =, but it would be easy to check if the key is a fn, it could instead apply that fn as a predicate
20:06	danlentz	so, I could use this to specify a path grammar over a graph?
20:07	oskarkv	danlentz I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean
20:08	TEttinger	it could be useful to support just plain ol sequences of non-collection values.
20:08	oskarkv	TEttinger yes, that would probably be farily easy to do
20:09	oskarkv	But for [] and {}, maybe we need new metacharacters if they are clojure literals instaed
20:10	bendlas	oskarkv: a non-string based DSL might also be an option, since in clojure you already have powerful data literals
20:10	TEttinger	true
20:10	bendlas	IIRC, cgrand has done a regexp parsing dsl in clojure
20:12	danlentz	i dont purport to fully grok why, but I seem to recall reading on clojars that the org.clojars.oskarkv group recommended for private forks?
20:12	oskarkv	Hm, non-string based DSL, what kind?
20:12	oskarkv	danlentz oh, maybe
20:13	amalloy	org.clojars.yourname is for you; use it however you want
20:13	bendlas	oskarkv: https://github.com/cgrand/regex
20:14	danlentz	“Personal groups are designed to hold things like throwaway alpha versions and forks of other projects. They’re long and ugly on purpose to encourage official releases to use canonical groups.”
20:15	danlentz	https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/wiki/Groups
20:17	bendlas	oskarkv: you can do that kind of dsl pretty easily in any functional language, based on applicative/monadic parsing, but I'm not entirely sure how that ties in to the notion of a vm-based model of regexps
20:18	oskarkv	bendlas If I understand correctly, with cgrand's lib I can make REs out of data, but then use them on text as with regular regexps?
20:19	bendlas	oskarkv: yes
20:19	amalloy	bendlas: what does all this have to do with virtual machines? (which i think is what you mean by vm)
20:19	oskarkv	Anyway I imagined that my lib would be used to search for patterns in logs, etc
20:20	danlentz	state machine
20:20	danlentz	?
20:20	oskarkv	amalloy I based my implementation on this http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp2.html
20:21	bendlas	that's what I'm not sure about, but my I guess so
20:22	bendlas	you mentioned the Russ Cox paper "the virtual machine approach" and my intuition was, that this must be the alternative to doing a monadic parser
20:22	danlentz	related, have you looked at clj-rpe?
20:22	bendlas	erm, amalloy, oskarkv mentioned it on the gh readme
20:23	oskarkv	Hm, I'm not sure what a monadic parser is. But the parsing step is already done by the time that VM stuff comes along
20:23	oskarkv	...in my lib
20:23	danlentz	vm = state machine, though.
20:24	oskarkv	Yes, more or less
20:24	bendlas	in a monadic parser, you define a parser monad which holds you parser state, like read ahead, and then your parsers are monadic values. monadic bind usually means concatenation
20:24	danlentz	this is a good article, thanks for pointing it out
20:25	bendlas	then you build up your grammar with combinators
20:26	bendlas	oskarkv: what's the vm stuff that comes along in your parser?
20:26	danlentz	bendlas: your explaination reminds me of: “Wadler tries to appease critics by explaining that "a monad is a monoid in the category of endofunctors, what's the problem?"
20:27	danlentz	http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html
20:27	oskarkv	bendlas the parser just parses the RE into an AST. But after that you need to make some machinery to actually use it on the input string to match stuff
20:27	bendlas	danlentz: not every functional language, though ;-)
20:29	bendlas	danlentz: I see your point, I guess the beauty of it is, how a really generic operation like m-bind can mean parser concatenation
20:29	oskarkv	bendlas so the VM stuff is like a NFA that you read about in automata theory
20:29	bendlas	kind of like how matrix multiplication can mean translation/rotation/scaling/shearing in one
20:32	creese	Can someone comment on the advantages of macros over code generation?
20:33	bendlas	oskarkv: I see, so I guess in a (m-word) parser, the AST is already given by the source language but I really have to read up on some theory, to get a grasp on how an NFA maps over
20:33	justin_smith	creese: macros can use the higher level facilities of the language for operating on collections, while code generation is typically limited to string munging
20:34	justin_smith	creese: for example, we don't need to make any special effort to prevent adjacent symbols in a macro combining to form an erroneous third symbol
20:35	oskarkv	bendlas I'm not sure about monadic parsers, but I always thought that a parser parses the input text (source code, regexp, etc) into an AST, according to a given grammar. But, just as in compilers, you are not done after parsing. You have code generation left.
20:36	amalloy	oskarkv: a parser doesn't have to use characters as its input type. bendlas is talking about a "parser" whose input type is the maps you're trying to match
20:36	creese	justin_smith: makes sense
20:37	bendlas	oskarkv: do you mean in this case, parsing the definition of the parser and then generating code to actually parse the input language?
20:37	creese	justin_smith are macros in clojure evaluated at run-time or compiled?
20:37	justin_smith	creese: compiled only
20:37	bendlas	amalloy: that. characters are just the sole input type for a subset of parsers
20:38	justin_smith	creese: though in jvm clojure the compiler is always present at runtime, if that's really needed
20:39	creese	I'm wondering how I can have a macro fed by params from a config file and not pay any penalty for that at run-time
20:40	creese	does it recompile when I change the config parameter and reload?
20:40	justin_smith	creese: if the config file is available at compile time, it should just work
20:40	creese	it isn't
20:40	creese	it's read at run-time
20:40	creese	when the app starts
20:40	justin_smith	creese: no, there is no automatic recompilation in clojure
20:40	amalloy	creese: you can't. how could a macro run at compile time modify your source code based on the information available in config files at runtime?
20:40	justin_smith	creese: app start is compile time, if you haven't loaded all your namespaces yet
20:41	justin_smith	but yeah
20:41	bendlas	oskarkv: so in a monadic parser, you basically try to reuse as much of you host language as possible. meaning you define the parser syntax in terms of the host syntax and then try to get the host compiler doing the parser generation for you. Then the input language can consist of a stream of characters, or whatever it is you are trying to parse.
20:41	oskarkv	bendlas Well in my case, I have a grammar for the REs. And I use a parser generator (once) to generate a parser for the REs. Then from the AST of a particular RE, I construct a VM that does the matching. The input map sequence does not need a parser, because they are not arranged in any special way.
20:42	justin_smith	creese: also, there's nothing a macro can do that a function can't, except for syntax (including "not evaluating some arguments" as syntax here)
20:44	catern	argh
20:44	catern	argh argh
20:44	catern	argh
20:44	catern	argh
20:44	catern	okay, so, if I want to do something that is really comfortable in Clojure
20:44	catern	and I don't want to write a web app
20:44	oskarkv	bendlas ok, I see.
20:44	catern	what should I do?
20:44	raspasov_	justin_smith: yea I was always wondering, how is passing a fn1 to a fn2 for fn1 to be executed later different from a macro? (except for the syntactic nicety about it) ?
20:44	justin_smith	raspasov_: exactly
20:44	catern	(i.e. what is something else really comfortable in Clojure)
20:45	catern	(inb4 nothing)
20:45	bendlas	catern: logfile processing
20:45	catern	bendlas: is that a joke?
20:45	justin_smith	catern: graph / data analysis.
20:45	raspasov_	justin_smith: I mean, yea there might be some perf overhead, but that would be the passing of a fn pointer to a fn
20:45	catern	justin_smith: as in, graph algorithms?
20:45	raspasov_	which probably nears zero
20:46	catern	I could do more incanter stuff I guess
20:46	justin_smith	catern: as in working on a bunch of data in a graph.
20:46	catern	justin_smith: ok
20:46	justin_smith	so yeah, partially graph algorithms, sure
20:46	catern	er
20:46	catern	ok
20:47	justin_smith	anything server oriented with a long uptime
20:47	raspasov_	justin_smith: not being a macro expect myself, I have been preferring passing a fn to a fn instead of writing a macro, I feel it makes the code easier for me to understand, and for people later on I hope
20:47	bendlas	oskarkv: ok and how do you tie in the once-generated RE parser into a particular VM?
20:47	raspasov_	justin_smith: and more composable
20:47	bendlas	(inc raspasov_)
20:47	lazybot	⇒ 1
20:47	justin_smith	raspasov_: yes, this is all true
20:48	justin_smith	(inc raspasov)
20:48	lazybot	⇒ 2
20:48	justin_smith	bendlas: lazybot doesn't know that raspasov_ and raspasov are the same person
20:48	bendlas	justin_smith: yeah, that's the problem with pointer based equality ;-)
20:49	justin_smith	bendlas: it's string based actually, mongodb
20:49	raspasov_	justing_smith: thanks, I'm glad I got something right :)
20:49	bendlas	justin_smith: well, all pointers are strings in memory
20:49	oskarkv	bendlas The parser (a function in my case) returns the AST. Then I have a function `compile-re` that takes it and returns a set of instructions for the VM. But the VM is pretty simple (just a few functions) that take those instructions and run them on the input map seq.
20:50	raspasov	corrected nickname :)
20:51	bendlas	(inc raspasov)
20:51	lazybot	⇒ 3
20:51	bendlas	there you go
20:52	raspasov	bendlas: thanks, I didn't do much :)
20:52	bendlas	yay for (fn [a] (fn [b] ))
20:52	bendlas	that's exactly the point. I hate it, when programmers do too much to solve a simple problem
20:53	raspasov	bendlas: haha, that's very true
20:54	raspasov	all that being said, macros definitely have their place, I mean a lot of Clojure is written in it, it's just that I think you really need to be sure that the macro that you're writing has value beyond your own few namespaces, otherwise it would just be there to confuse people I feel like
20:54	creese	justin_smith: thankx
20:54	raspasov	written in them*
20:54	bendlas	oskarkv: cool, I'll have a look at the instruction set of your VM and will definitely read the paper.. interesting stuff
20:58	bendlas	raspasov: sure, some of my best friends use macros ;-)
20:59	bendlas	joking aside, the latest case where I needed them was, when the alternative was writing a hundred little wrapper functions, by hand, based on some documentation, where I could just generate them with a macro based on reflection
20:59	raspasov	bendlas: haha
21:00	raspasov	bendlas: yea that's a good example
21:00	bendlas	and boy was I glad to have them then
21:29	oskarkv	bendlas_mobile https://www.refheap.com/98920
21:47	bendlas	oskarkv: ok, that instruction sequence looks like a code generator could optimize the living hell out of it. OTOH, from just glancing, I find it kind of hard to get a grip on the various magic numbers
21:47	bendlas	but I guess that's the way of things with low-level representations
21:55	oskarkv	bendlas optimize how? The numbers are just indices into the sequence of instructions itself
21:56	oskarkv	except for the save ones :P
21:57	justin_smith	oskarkv: it's like the difference between an interpreter and a compiler - the same info that you use in the form of numeric indexes, could be converted to remove a level of indirection and get put directly on the execution stack
21:59	oskarkv	justin_smith yeah
22:02	bendlas	justin_smith: well put
22:03	oskarkv	I'm not sure how I would do that. Do you know something I could read?
22:05	bendlas	not sure, maybe documentation of your target byte code: x86? llvm?
22:05	justin_smith	oskarkv: hmm... not sure what the best resource for that would be. Probably not the asm.java docs (though this is the tool clojure uses to accomplish that task)
22:05	oskarkv	Or, maybe I just don't understand exactly what you mean. Converted how exactly?
22:05	bendlas	or yeah, jvm
22:06	oskarkv	Ok
22:06	justin_smith	oskarkv: it's the concept of compilation, instead of writing code that looks up the next step, then executes it, you generate bytecode representing the series of steps, and the program just executes them one after another
22:06	justin_smith	you could also convert the state machine into a function, and let clojure do the compilation part
22:07	justin_smith	by lifting out the variables to be args, and then putting the steps in sequence
22:07	bendlas	partial evaluation might also be a worthwile avenue
22:08	oskarkv	Ah, I see
22:08	oskarkv	Will have to think about it
22:22	bendlas	oskarkv: also, if you implemented nesting (regexes as keys/values), I suspect there were some deep insights to be had from how { and } would correspond to push and pop on the execution stack
22:24	oskarkv	bendlas perhaps ;)
22:25	oskarkv	But right now I'm looking for some problems that people even just might solve with my lib, so that I can claim it's useful. I really need it to get this school thing done :P
22:26	oskarkv	Opimizing by compiling more seems fun though
22:28	amalloy	if you want to optimize by compiling, in a lisp it's a lot easier than generating bytecode directly with asm. you can just generate the sexprs for a function body, and then eval the function
22:28	oskarkv	Yeah
22:29	justin_smith	yeah, that's what I meant by letting clojure do the compilation part
22:29	bendlas	yup, IMO that's the real use case for eval
22:30	bendlas	(apart from repl)
22:36	justin_smith	bendlas: speak for yourself, I find the rpl perfectly useful
22:36	justin_smith	(aka "cat")
22:38	bendlas	yeah, nothing like going from lazy-seq to transducer and back ;-)
22:39	bendlas	justin_smith: maybe we should call it ripl: read-identity-print-loop
22:43	bendlas	just as long as nobody starts going full circle and call it a 'disruptor'
22:44	justin_smith	mace of disruption, most powerful weapon against undead
22:44	bendlas	:-)
22:45	bendlas	ring of fire, baby
23:58	chr15m	hello, this is probably a stupid question, but does anyone know how, in vim, to gather any loose closing parentheses in a block onto the end of the last line?