#clojure – 2015-03-16

2015-03-16

00:30	bacon198`	question, how do I remove an element from a vector, and return the list with the removed element?
00:30	bacon198`	,(def x [1 2 3 4])
00:30	clojurebot	#'sandbox/x
00:34	bacon198`	i'm guessing subvec
00:40	TEttinger	I'm pretty proud of this clojure name generator, it had some odd reqs http://ideone.com/zwnFAL
00:40	TEttinger	,(def x [1 2 3 4])
00:40	clojurebot	#'sandbox/x
00:40	TEttinger	bacon198`, what output do you want?
00:41	l1x	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/m2BK6uxa
00:41	l1x	does this work for you?
00:41	l1x	it does not seem to catch ctrl+c or the printing is not happening for some other reason
00:43	TEttinger	l1x, in the repl ctrl-c would get intercepted by the repl itself
00:43	l1x	this is not in the repl
00:43	TEttinger	then maybe the thread being asleep is preventing it from receiving input?
00:47	l1x	maybe
00:47	l1x	anyways i investigate it tomorrow
00:48	l1x	thanks
00:48	amalloy	out needs to be bound for println to do anything useful, and in a brand-new Thread it isn't. you can fix this by, for example, (let [out out] (Thread. #(binding [out out] (println ...))))
00:49	TEttinger	(inc amalloy) ; l1x, I love having people who are actually good at clojure here
00:49	lazybot	⇒ 236
00:50	TEttinger	since I am pretty much not
00:50	l1x	i am a noob
00:50	TEttinger	that name gen has turned out well though
00:50	l1x	not even full time software guy :)
00:50	l1x	but amalloy and justin are great
00:50	TEttinger	heh
00:51	TEttinger	I miss technomancy
00:51	l1x	where is he?
00:51	TEttinger	doing charity work
00:51	l1x	ahh
00:51	l1x	the unsung here is ztellman
00:51	TEttinger	indeed
00:51	TEttinger	primitive-math is amazing
00:51	l1x	his code is terribly good
00:52	l1x	i am using his library to build our new datapipeline
00:55	justin_smith	oh, hi
02:50	egli	l1x: datapipeline? Anything more specific?
04:05	dysfun	ambrosebs: the last message i saw before i reconnected was you saying people think type annotations are documentation. methinks you're setting yourself up for a fight with the entire scala community there ;)
04:28	dysfun	hrm, any marginalia users around?
04:28	dysfun	trying to embed code in the documentation of marginalia doesn't look so good
04:28	dysfun	it's example code so i don't want it to actually go into the library
04:43	michaelr`	Does a hashing function exist which takes any value but produces a configurable number of hash values?
04:46	noidi	dysfun, how about leaving the code in but wrapped in a (comment ...)?
04:47	dysfun	noidi: i wondered why so many people were doing that
04:47	dysfun	is it because of marginalia?
04:48	noidi	I think it's mostly because that way you can use your editor's structural editing support on the example code
04:48	noidi	paredit or what have you
04:49	dysfun	ah yes, paredit. one day i might actually make the time to give it a proper go
04:49	dysfun	so i came up with a hack for making midje tests intermingle-able with real code and stripping them out for uberjar build
04:50	dysfun	i'm concerned this is going to clog up the marginalia output too
04:51	noidi	I place something like (comment (gen/sample my-gen)) after each custom test.check generator
04:52	dysfun	ah, i'm using midje
04:52	noidi	I can then see an example of the generator's output by moving the cursor to the commented form and pressing a keyboard shortcut
04:52	noidi	otherwise I'd have to either write that form in the REPL myself every time, or copy and paste it from a textual comment
04:56	dysfun	nod
04:57	dysfun	https://gist.github.com/jjl/266e4fd88846ab8674f4
04:57	dysfun	this is the hack i'm using to make midje autotest work
05:00	dysfun	if i put those in a comment block, they won't run, obviously
05:01	dysfun	but since i don't actually use (comment) for any other purpose, perhaps i can just make my hack work on that instead
05:02	noidi	dysfun, have you seen this? https://github.com/marick/Midje/wiki/Production-mode
05:02	dysfun	yes. there's no way to actually use it :)
05:03	dysfun	marick says there'll be something coming soon
05:03	dysfun	til then i'm left with this awkward hack
05:06	noidi	ok
05:10	egli	dysfun: not the answer you want to hear, but I've been quite happy with codox
05:11	egli	and markdown format
05:13	dysfun	yeah, but i like marginalia output
05:13	dysfun	it's pretty
05:13	dysfun	people like reading pretty documentation that's helpful
05:13	egli	dysfun: yes, looks matter :-)
05:13	dysfun	and given how many times i've gotten writing this library wrong and how many times i've now written it to get it right, it'd be nice if other people didn't struggle to use it
05:41	jonathanj	is there a standard or common markup accepted by tools for use in docstrings?
05:43	dysfun	no. if you choose a documentation generator tool, most of those support structured markup
05:44	dysfun	i'm quite fond of marginalia
05:45	dysfun	that embeds markdown
05:46	mpenet	I really don't like it. If you don't care about the code and just want to use the lib it's a too noisy
05:49	dysfun	mpenet: sorry, could you explain that please?
05:49	dysfun	you mean that you'd prefer not to see the code?
05:51	mpenet	yes
05:52	mpenet	by default at least
05:52	dysfun	oh that's an interesting idea
05:52	mpenet	codox is better imho for doc, you get the signature/docstring and a link to the code if necessary
05:52	mpenet	less noisy
05:52	mpenet	less scrolling
05:52	dysfun	i quite like codox output i must say. but i'm very fond of the idea of literate programming
05:53	dysfun	perhaps codox favours larger libraries and marginalia smaller ones?
05:54	mpenet	I wouldnt be so sure. unless it's a 10 line single namespace lib
05:54	dysfun	this is a small library. less than a hundred lines of code
05:54	mpenet	it's nice to have, but shouldn't be the default doc imo
05:55	dysfun	well i also like that when you go to your code, the docs are there too
05:55	dysfun	i wonder if you can just generate both
05:56	dysfun	off to a great start with codox. i get an obscure error about hiccup
05:58	egli	dysfun: you should be able to produce both marginalia and codox doc. Just specify different output dirs
05:59	dysfun	yup. except `lein doc` (codox) throws bizarre hiccup-related errors i'm trying to figure out how to fix
06:01	dysfun	i give up. any ideas? https://www.refheap.com/98497
06:01	dysfun	that's me trying with the last-but-1 version because the latest did the same
06:02	mpenet	maybe a conflict with a user profile
06:04	dysfun	well whaddya know?
06:04	dysfun	clj-ns-browser
06:04	dysfun	which i haven't been using anyway because it's not very good
06:06	egli	dysfun: that was the problem?
06:06	dysfun	yes
06:06	dysfun	it was in my dev dependencies in my profile
06:12	dysfun	now i have to go fix my tests before i can generate it. heh.
06:16	dysfun	hrm. a marginalia-alike with live updating would be awesome
06:17	dysfun	you could change the docstring and go to your browser to see the updated docs
06:17	dysfun	without having to trigger a rebuild and hit refresh
06:22	zot	anybody have suggestions on this warning in a loop/recur: "recur arg for primitive local: len is not matching primitive, had: Object, needed: long" actual code here: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/96404337149c10c52439
06:23	dysfun	that sounds like a type error to me
06:23	zot	i found that doing a (long …) cast within the recurs fixes it, but that seems a strange fix
06:24	zot	since the thing being cast is the result of (- foo bar), both of which are numeric
06:24	zot	but i assume autoboxing is transparent, so maybe it's the only way?
06:39	Glenjamin	^long might work
06:42	dysfun	hrm. i'm writing a library that generally expects to be used in combination with an edn reader (it has lots of symbols and lists in, you'd have to do awkward quoting of things in clojure). do we think it's reasonable to depend on clojure.tools.reader and write a function to scrape edn and read it directly or do we think that enough people might want to feed it from clojure and not want the dep to make not doing so worthwhile?
07:01	mpenet	anyone knows how to run core.async cljs test suite?
07:01	mpenet	it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere
07:01	noncom	dysfun: i did not understand what you're asking.. :)
07:02	dysfun	noncom: it would be slightly more convenient to have one import and one function call to use this from a file. doing so would make me depend on clojure.tools.reader (which most people will want to use). should i do that or not?
07:04	noncom	hmmm well, maybe i am not the most opinionated person to ask about this, but depending on clojure reader seems fine, since anyway, it is in the standard package?
07:04	noncom	and also i think there is no real alternative to clojure.tools.reader
07:04	dysfun	clojure.tools.reader is not standard, it's a pure clojure reimplementation
07:05	noncom	oh, i thought it's already inside...
07:06	dysfun	no. and i specifically want the edn reader
07:06	dysfun	(the format makes liberal use of lists and symbols which are very pretty in edn but require quoting and such in clojure code
07:21	noncom	dysfun: hmmm, interesting..
07:52	jonathanj	are there documentation tools that aren't centered around literate programming?
07:53	jonathanj	hrm, when i "lein run" my application on OS X i get a Java dock icon until my code exits
07:54	jonathanj	i'm using flying-saucer-pdf, i'm assuming that someone starts up AWT or similar and the JRE thinks it's running a GUI app? is there a way to stop this?
07:55	dnolen	https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojurescript/e3gOEUJlkMc/PATUU2JaBl4J
07:55	dnolen	ClojureScript 0.0-3115 out
08:05	dysfun	jonathanj: codox isn't
08:05	dysfun	also if you figure out how to stop the dock icon, i'd love to hear. i get it because i spin up netty
08:11	justin_smith	dysfun: maybe use a headless jre?
08:12	noncom	what is the current best option to validate passed function arguments?
08:12	justin_smith	jonathanj: oh yeah, java is really annoying in thinking that if you process something image related, you must want to connect to the GUI
08:13	justin_smith	noncom: I like prismatic/schema for that, but there is also :pre conditions
08:15	dysfun	reminds me of old-fashioned assert()
08:17	jonathanj	justin_smith: any suggestions to get rid of that?
08:19	jonathanj	hrm, how would i do the equivalent of `java -Dfoo=bar` from Clojure?
08:19	dysfun	what do you mean? how do you get access to the definitions? or how do you set them in-process?
08:20	dysfun	the latter cannot be done but you can work around it by agreeing to only use a wrapper
08:20	jonathanj	hrm
08:20	jonathanj	i was reading http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/javase/headless-136834.html
08:20	noncom	in schema how can i say OR inside a type template?
08:20	dysfun	the former, you do the java way, with clojure syntax
08:21	noncom	like a value can be either [] or nil or keyword
08:21	jonathanj	i'd like to just try -Djava.awt.headless=true as a quick once-off
08:21	jonathanj	but it claims i can use System.setProperty to do the same thing, but apparently that code is broken
08:21	jonathanj	oh, hrm
08:21	jonathanj	that's a static method
08:21	dysfun	how are you launching clojure? like 'lein repl' ?
08:22	jonathanj	dysfun: i'm just using `lein run` at the moment
08:22	dysfun	ah right. well System/setProperty should work
08:22	jonathanj	okay, so (System/setProperty "java.awt.headless" "true") in my main function does what i want (and stops the whole GUI start up thing)
08:22	jonathanj	sorry, i was an idiot and did (.setProperty System ...) initially
08:23	dysfun	heh, i do that often
08:24	justin_smith	jonathanj: I do "env _JAVA_OPTIONS=-DFOO=bar lein ..."
08:26	justin_smith	jonathanj: but you can also do :jvm-opts ["-Djava.awt.headless=true" ...]
08:26	jonathanj	ah, thanks, that would have been useful to at least try this out
08:26	justin_smith	(in project.clj)
08:27	justin_smith	actually I do both - the former if I want to frequently change a def, the latter if it's a dev time def that doesn't change
08:29	jonathanj	how do i manually include a java project in my clojure project?
08:30	jonathanj	so either i have the original Java source or at least a jar, but it's not available on any kind of central repository
08:33	justin_smith	jonathanj: would you be allowed to host it if you chose? because putting it in a mvn repo is likely the easy thing
08:33	justin_smith	otherwise you can put it in your repo on the classpath
08:34	justin_smith	(or java-source-path, of course, if you want lein to compile it...)
08:37	jonathanj	justin_smith: it's not my code, the author is just kind of AWOL
08:38	jonathanj	if i use java-source-path, is it automatically compiled with my clojure code and available via (:import)?
08:39	jonathanj	i guess i can just give it a try
08:41	dysfun	,(inc justin_smith)
08:41	clojurebot	#error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in th...
08:41	dysfun	lol
08:42	dysfun	clearly i've forgotten the syntax
08:42	agarman	(inc justin_smith)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ 210
08:42	agarman	(dec dysfun)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ 2
08:42	jonathanj	justin_smith: thank you!
08:42	agarman	(inc dysfun)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ 3
08:45	justin_smith	jonathanj: yeah, if you set :java-source-paths [...] lein will compile the classes under that path
08:59	justin_smith	,(str 'ba (repeat (rand-int 4) 'na))
08:59	clojurebot	"baclojure.lang.LazySeq@c27025f5"
08:59	justin_smith	blergh
08:59	justin_smith	,(apply str 'ba (repeat (rand-int 4) 'na))
08:59	clojurebot	"ba"
09:00	justin_smith	,(apply str 'ba (repeat (rand-int 4) 'na))
09:00	clojurebot	"bananana"
09:01	dysfun	:)
09:01	dysfun	that's actually quite a nice way of introducing simple logic when teaching programming
09:02	dysfun	stealing that. thanks.
09:02	justin_smith	I'm sure it would go over great in a 5th grade classroom
09:02	justin_smith	heh :)
09:02	dysfun	i taught a friend to program clojure a few months ago that was odd
09:02	gfredericks	,(apply str 'ba (take-while (fn [_] (< (rand) 0.75)) (repeat 'na)))
09:02	clojurebot	"bana"
09:02	dysfun	he'd not done anything more complex than excel formulae before
09:03	gfredericks	,(apply str 'ba (take-while (fn [_] (< (rand) 0.75)) (repeat 'na)))
09:03	clojurebot	"banana"
09:03	gfredericks	,(apply str 'ba (take-while (fn [_] (< (rand) 0.75)) (repeat 'na)))
09:03	clojurebot	"ba"
09:03	gfredericks	,(apply str 'ba (take-while (fn [_] (< (rand) 0.95)) (repeat 'na)))
09:03	clojurebot	"banananananananananana"
09:03	dysfun	i'm still not entirely sure how clojure has ended up with such a lesser need for parens than other lisps, but it's very noticeable compared to for example LFE
09:04	justin_smith	&(frequencies (repeatedly 100 #(apply str 'ba (take-while (fn [_] (< (rand) 0.75)) (repeat 'na)))))
09:04	lazybot	⇒ {"banananana" 4, "bananananananana" 5, "banananananananananananananananananana" 2, "banana" 14, "banananananananananana" 1, "banananananananananananana" 2, "bananananananananana" 2, "ba" 22, "banananananana" 4, "bananananana" 8, "bana" 21, "banananananananana" 3, "bananana" 12}
09:04	justin_smith	wow, it fit in one output!
09:04	dysfun	:)
09:05	agarman	(str (apply str (repeat (rand-int 16) 'na)) " " 'batman)
09:05	agarman	,(str (apply str (repeat (rand-int 16) 'na)) " " 'batman)
09:05	clojurebot	" batman"
09:05	jonathanj	hrm, how would i have lein include some loose jar in my project?
09:05	justin_smith	jonathanj: put it in your :resource-paths
09:05	justin_smith	then it ends up on the classpath in the generated (uber)jar
09:05	agarman	,(str (apply str (repeat (rand-int 16) 'na)) " " 'batman)
09:05	clojurebot	"nanananananananananana batman"
09:05	jonathanj	justin_smith: and for use during development?
09:05	thheller	@dnolen: if you call .disableThreads on the closure compiler the System/exit is not required as there will not be a lingering thread. the threaded model provides no benefit so there really is no downside to it.
09:06	justin_smith	jonathanj: yes, it will also be on the classpath while developing
09:06	justin_smith	jonathanj: but consider that it could also be pushed to a maven repo
09:06	jonathanj	do you mean inadvertently?
09:07	justin_smith	no, I mean if you put it in a maven repo then you can use it like you would any other dep
09:07	dnolen	thheller: the threads are created to modify the stack size for Java 6, granted we are on Java 7 I rather not bother with it
09:07	jonathanj	yeah, it did occur to me, i guess i'll aim for that later on
09:09	thheller	@dnolen just never liked the System/exit call, just saw your wiki edit to add it. thought I mention it
09:09	dnolen	thheller: sure but it doesn't matter much and System/exit is fine here
09:10	thheller	dnolen: yeah I guess so
09:31	jonathanj	justin_smith: hmm, so i have :resource-paths ["src/main/resource"] and my .jar in that same directory (relative to project.clj) but (:import) fails with java.lang.ClassNotFoundException
09:32	jonathanj	the failed path matches the package name and class name i'm expecting, is there some way i can debug this? (determine whether the jar is being included, etc.)
09:33	jonathanj	i'm just using `lein run` to run my main (which imports the java class), hopefully that's not the issue
09:33	cnb_	is it possible to use definterface without the class being defined as final ?
09:34	justin_smith	jonathanj: oh, my bad, you need to add the jar itself to the resource-paths
09:34	jonathanj	justin_smith: yay!
09:34	justin_smith	jonathanj: that worked?
09:35	jonathanj	is src/main/resource the convention for resource-paths?
09:35	justin_smith	usually it is just resources/
09:35	jonathanj	justin_smith: yes, that worked
09:35	justin_smith	awesome
09:36	justin_smith	jonathanj: there isn't really a convention for embedding jars, because the "proper" way to do it is create a pom and upload it to a maven repo and use it as a regular dep
09:38	jonathanj	justin_smith: is there some recommended reading regarding uploading jars to maven?
09:39	cnb_	is it possible to use definterface without the class being defined as final ?/
09:39	justin_smith	jonathanj: the mvn command can do this, there are some guides on sonatype too http://central.sonatype.org/pages/producers.html
09:40	justin_smith	cnb_: so you need an interface that isn't final?
09:40	cnb_	yes
09:40	cnb_	justin_smith: yes
09:41	cnb_	justin_smith I mean the class than implements the interface using the webservice annotations is being declared as final
09:42	jonathanj	justin_smith: thanks again, you've been a tremendous help!
09:42	justin_smith	cnb_: so you need other interfaces to inherit from it? for normal usage of implementing the interface should be fine
09:42	jonathanj	,(inc justin_smith)
09:42	clojurebot	#error{:cause "Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in this context", :via [{:type clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException, :message "java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)", :at [clojure.lang.Compiler analyze "Compiler.java" 6535]} {:type java.lang.RuntimeException, :message "Unable to resolve symbol: justin_smith in th...
09:42	justin_smith	jonathanj: the , isn't used for karma
09:42	jonathanj	(inc justin_smith)
09:42	lazybot	⇒ 211
09:43	cnb_	justin_smith this one is being created as final (deftype ^{WebService {:targetNamespace "o.m.g"}} FooService []
09:43	cnb_	If I look at the .class the class generated is final, I do not want to be final
09:43	justin_smith	OK, than really what you care about is the deftype creating a final class
09:43	justin_smith	*then
09:43	cnb_	yes
09:44	cnb_	justin_smith: yes, that is the problem
09:44	justin_smith	maybe you need gen-class instead of deftype?
09:45	justin_smith	one moment
09:46	justin_smith	cnb_: this flow chart from cemerick is helpful http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
09:46	dysfun	hrm, i wonder if marginalia would be better served by inverting the order of functions in the source
09:46	justin_smith	cnb_: notice you are definitely inside the "interop zone"
09:46	dysfun	it seems to me that if you're doing user facing stuff, you'll put the function that has the neat api at the bottom to avoid having to put a (declare) at the top
09:47	justin_smith	cnb_: looks like if an instance of an anonymous type suffices you could get away with reify / proxy
09:48	justin_smith	dysfun: trufax
09:48	cnb_	justin_smith thank you very much
09:49	dysfun	justin_smith: i guess it depends whether you hate your users or not ;)
09:49	justin_smith	cnb_: np, I use that flow chart a lot
09:50	justin_smith	dysfun: at this point my reading of a clojure file usually consists of a quick skim at the top to decide if I should read more from there or (at least 76% of the time) jump straight to the bottom and read from there up
09:50	noncom	are there any good tutorials or examples on clojure.tools.reader?
09:50	dysfun	heh
09:50	dysfun	do you use marginalia?
09:50	justin_smith	dysfun: some exceptions from the read-from-the-bottom thing - if there is a defmethod or defprotocol encompassing the functionality, that will be at the top, and that is the main thing to know about
09:51	justin_smith	dysfun: I've played with it, I wish it were more flexible
09:51	justin_smith	s/defmethod/defmulti of course
09:51	dysfun	i'm quite fond of it, but obviously i'm going to have to build my own because yaks always need shaving
09:52	jonathanj	returning an OutputStream doesn't seem very clojure-like, is there a better alternative?
09:52	jonathanj	(i'm using a Java library that has InputStream and OutputStream parameters)
09:53	dysfun	justin_smith: tbh i tend to avoid multiple dispatch. i understand it can become a performance bottleneck in heavy throughput use cases
09:54	justin_smith	jonathanj: seems fine to return an OuputStream, it's easy enough to slurp from it or use with-open or whatever
09:55	justin_smith	dysfun: multimethods aren't much slower than fns, and if you do them right protocol functions will be faster than regular fns
09:55	dysfun	i use protocols
09:55	justin_smith	s/protocol functions/protocol methods/
10:00	noncom	how do i get line/column info from the clojure.tools.reader?
10:01	dysfun	if you use read it should supply it
10:01	dysfun	as metadata
10:02	Bronsa	noncom: use an indexing reader (either indexing-push-back-reader or source-logging-push-back-reader) and line/col info will be attached as metadata to the forms you read
10:04	Bronsa	noncom: http://sprunge.us/jQFL?clj
10:16	noncom	Bronsa: thank you!
10:17	noncom	Bronsa: what is the difference between indexing and source-logging?
10:18	Bronsa	noncom: a source-logging reader adds to the form metadata a :source key mapping to a string that represents the original source form, where possible
10:19	noncom	wow, so the metadata contains the source the form was built from? that's nice..
10:19	noncom	you said "where possilbe" - what are the cases when this is not possible?
10:20	Bronsa	noncom: http://sprunge.us/aQdB?clj
10:21	Bronsa	noncom: well, when the form read is not an IMeta you can't possibily attach that info as metadata
10:21	jonathanj	are OutputStreams also InputStreams?
10:21	noncom	you mean that #_foo is missing metadata ?
10:22	jonathanj	i'd like to pass the output of one function as the input to another
10:22	justin_smith	jonathanj: no, but a pair can be connected somewhat like a pipe
10:22	Bronsa	noncom: no, #_foo is just a comment
10:22	justin_smith	jonathanj: yeah, I have a project where I do that, one moment
10:22	Bronsa	noncom: I mean that in "#_foo 1", there's no way to preserve the #_foo comment
10:22	noncom	got it
10:22	Bronsa	while in "#_foo [1]" it's preserved in the :source info of [1]
10:23	noncom	that is an interesting detail..
10:23	noncom	why was it made to be preserved?
10:24	Bronsa	noncom: the more we can preserve of the original source, the better. the source-logging reader is used for source-maps support in cljs
10:24	dysfun	yes, i thought that form was supposed to 'guarantee' complete removal
10:25	dysfun	i realise it's just a source map, but hrm.
10:26	noncom	well, source map is used for cueues... obviously cueuing is better with most things preserved..
10:26	noncom	i guess..
10:29	justin_smith	,(let [bytes (java.io.ByteArrayOutputStream.) _ (.write bytes (.getBytes "hello")) in (java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. (.toByteArray bytes))] (slurp in))
10:29	clojurebot	"hello"
10:29	justin_smith	jonathanj: ^
10:30	justin_smith	jonathanj: I think it is also possible without doing the toByteArray method call so that you get a proper pipe style setup
10:32	justin_smith	jonathanj: with a bit of research, it looks like a circular buffer is a nice way to do that
10:32	noncom	Bronsa: what is the recommended way to read a source file of clojure with tools.reader? i assume that the source file contains many clojure forms, but readers read only the first one. ofcourse i know how to make it work manually, but probably there is an existing facility for that?
10:33	jonathanj	justin_smith: i see there's also Piped{Input,Output}Stream
10:34	justin_smith	jonathanj: yes, but you should not use both in the same thread
10:34	Bronsa	noncom: no, readers don't read only the first one http://sprunge.us/fFOE?clj
10:35	noncom	ah, so they keep note of the progress...
10:35	noncom	until we hit EOF i guess..
10:35	Bronsa	yes
10:35	noncom	cool :)
10:35	myguidingstar	anyone please help explain why this core.async code doesn't print out anything? https://gist.github.com/af9128f7c9a092d7f87c
10:35	justin_smith	noncom: yeah, readers are stateful, you can even bookmark, rewind or fastforward (not that you would want to for something like this)
10:35	Bronsa	noncom: so you can either read the whole file in a string and use that or you can pass an InputStream to an input-stream-push-back-reader
10:36	noncom	that's really cool. i keep being fascinated by all this clojuric stuff and things you do, guys!
10:37	Bronsa	note that the input-stream reader is not an indexing reader so if you want to use it and get source info you'll have to compose it with an indexing reader, e.g. (indexing-push-back-reader (input-stream-push-back-reader my-input-stream))
10:38	dnolen	myguidingstar: that code is going to stall on (>! ch j)
10:39	myguidingstar	thanks dnolen
10:41	myguidingstar	dnolen, what's your advice for a minimal additional code to make it work?
10:43	dnolen	myguidingstar: stop reading and writing to ch in the same loop
10:44	myguidingstar	okay
10:46	noncom	what is the best way to know my reader has nothing else to read? catching an EOF does not seem to be the best way around this..
10:50	stuartsierra	noncom: `read` takes extra arguments to specify an EOF value.
10:51	noncom	really.. just have to first read the docs and the source i guess :)
11:11	tbaldrid_	myguidingstar: you have a race condition in that code. It's quite possible for the middle go to write a value to ch and then read it right back in again
11:11	tbaldrid_	actually that will always happen, I have no clue what that code is supposed to do,
11:12	myguidingstar	tbaldrid_, that's what I intended to do
11:13	myguidingstar	actually it was a simplified version of my other real code
11:15	ambrosebs	dysfun: woah woah. I said people think type hints are documentation. They say almost nothing.
11:15	ambrosebs	type annotations are documentation.
11:18	dysfun	hehe. i disagree :)
11:18	dysfun	i don't disagree they're useful, i just think from a documentation pov, docstrings are more useful
11:19	dysfun	sadly not seeing a lot of that in scala
11:23	Glenjamin	type annotations are useful but not always sufficient, perhaps?
11:29	dysfun	yes
11:29	dysfun	i'd go with 'almost always insufficient' actually
11:30	ambrosebs	dysfun: erm doc + type is way better than just doc
11:30	ambrosebs	especially when talking about clojure.core
11:30	ambrosebs	I never said type is sufficient
11:31	dysfun	shrug i don't mind reading a textual description. "Args: [foo bar]. foo is a map, bar is a value to look up in the map"
11:31	Glenjamin	that's a type annotation
11:31	Glenjamin	just an unchecked one :p
11:31	dysfun	heh
11:31	dysfun	an imprecise one perhaps
11:32	dysfun	however, you have the freedom to divert from the specific to the more easily understandable
11:33	dysfun	i like type systems, but i'm not convinced that it should be automatically what shows in the documentation
11:34	ambrosebs	dysfun: here is my perfect documentation http://crossclj.info/fun/clojure.core/*.html
11:36	ambrosebs	a few examples would make that perfect :)
11:36	dysfun	hrm, see i don't like the type signature there
11:36	dysfun	to me that should read number -> number and note in the docstring that it will perform conversion rules
11:37	dysfun	otherwise, that's pretty good
11:38	dysfun	i guess a lot of it is taste
11:38	ambrosebs	I don't know how to put it more precisely than in the type if you want to know more than just "conversion rules"
11:39	dysfun	i guess i'd like to see a simplified type signature. you could click to see a full type signature
11:39	ambrosebs	dysfun: agreed
11:39	dysfun	i get this for free with marginalia and codox because it just prints the signature without types and the text to describe it underneath
11:40	ambrosebs	well you get no type signature right?
11:40	dysfun	indeed. but i find the argument names and a bit of text describing them more helpful
11:41	dysfun	it's a problem of expression i think. how to express what it does concisely
11:42	dysfun	i think type signatures an inexpressive way to describe a process
11:42	ambrosebs	well I don't know if argument names help, but prose + examples is definitely helpful
11:43	dysfun	yes, i find argument names much more helpful than type signatures
11:44	ambrosebs	really? sure if you can read the actual source it's all you need.
11:45	dysfun	those type signatures are extremely confusing. what's the * doing in the middle?
11:45	dysfun	and the union symbol looks too close to a 'u'
11:45	ambrosebs	the * is like a kleene star
11:45	ambrosebs	0 or more types
11:46	ambrosebs	so the type sig that you might want is [Number * -> Number]
11:46	ambrosebs	as in 0 or more numbers
11:47	dysfun	oh i see, it's indicative of arity?
11:47	ambrosebs	yes it says this function can take any number of arguments
11:47	ambrosebs	(even if it is implemented with 4 arities)
11:48	ambrosebs	so here's my favourite annotation in core.typed http://crossclj.info/doc/org.clojure/clojure/latest/clojure.core.html#_swap%21
11:49	ambrosebs	tough to read at first but really captures swap! precisely
11:49	Bronsa	the some-fn one looks scary
11:49	ambrosebs	Bronsa: it's also stupid :)
11:50	ambrosebs	Bronsa: any sort of repeating pattern in a type that grows downwards is a TODO :)_
11:50	ambrosebs	yea some-fn is a ridiculous annotation
11:50	ambrosebs	LOL
11:50	dysfun	ambrosebs: but now i've looked at that i'm struggling to have a clue what it does.
11:51	ambrosebs	dysfun: you're familiar with swap! ?
11:51	dysfun	yes, i use it, but for a moment it was like i didn't.
11:52	ambrosebs	dysfun: so the ... notation allows you to capture a sequence of arguments
11:52	ambrosebs	(All [b ...] [b ... b -> [b .... b -> Any]]) just returns a function that takes the same arguments
11:52	ambrosebs	there's an example somewhere..
11:53	ambrosebs	http://crossclj.info/doc/org.clojure/clojure/latest/clojure.core.html#_memoize
11:53	ambrosebs	so memoize takes a function and returns a function with the same interfact
11:53	ambrosebs	*interface
11:53	ambrosebs	does that make sense?
11:54	Bronsa	ambrosebs: I'm totally ignorant wrt core.typed, is there a reason why some-fn looks that scary while other combinators e.g. partial don't? is it about the "conditional" nature of some-fn?
11:54	dysfun	i understand what it's doing. but it doesn't help that you use mathematical symbols where words would do
11:55	dysfun	and the b ... b is a very verbose way of saying 'potentially many b'
11:55	dysfun	how do you for example map alternating repeating groups?
11:56	ambrosebs	eg?
11:56	dysfun	(assoc {} :foo 1 :bar 2)
11:56	ambrosebs	well that works with HMaps
11:56	ambrosebs	that's of type '{:foo (Val 1) :bar (Val 2)}
11:56	ambrosebs	ah
11:56	ambrosebs	sorry
11:57	ambrosebs	that is specifically a hack at the moment
11:57	ambrosebs	but that's possible
11:57	ambrosebs	you need an Assoc type
11:57	ambrosebs	and there's a core.typed branch where this is actually implemented
11:57	ambrosebs	let me find the type
11:57	dysfun	some days i actually wonder whether haskell got it right banning variable arity
11:58	ambrosebs	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/DWEEV49b
11:58	ambrosebs	that's the prototype syntax for assoc
11:59	ambrosebs	as in it takes a map m, at least 1 key and value pair, then a bunch of c's that must be even in number
11:59	dysfun	okay. so you've correctly annotated that behaviour. you have but one problem: augh my eyes
11:59	ambrosebs	dysfun: I'm open to suggestions
12:00	ambrosebs	as I said, it works but isn't merged because I'm unhappy with the syntax
12:00	dysfun	heh, i'll let you know. i've been doing my own mapping of edn data to semantics the last week so i know exactly how hard it is
12:00	dysfun	clojure is pretty flexible so you have to model in that flexibility, sure.
12:01	ambrosebs	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/xTWjWznc
12:01	ambrosebs	that's one idea I had
12:02	dysfun	hrm. it's a lot more concise for sure
12:03	ambrosebs	anyway the thing I like about swap! annotation is the b ... b for the second argument must agree with the b ... b you use after the function
12:03	ambrosebs	note that b * would be less accurate since that's a kleene star. b ...b expands to something like `Number Boolean Foo`
12:03	dysfun	yes. this is one of the things scala struggles with a little
12:03	dysfun	obviously it doesn't have variable arity
12:04	ambrosebs	does scala support rest parameters?
12:05	ambrosebs	I assumed it did
12:05	ambrosebs	or is it the variable arity polymorphism (ie. the dots) that it doesn't support?
12:06	justin_smith	ambrosebs: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1008836/2258453 this looks like a yes
12:07	ambrosebs	oh heh it uses the * syntax
12:07	dysfun	oh, i stand corrected
12:08	ambrosebs	justin_smith: gold star!
12:08	ambrosebs	I'm guessing it's just an array like java varargs
12:09	justin_smith	my hunch was that it would support varargs, because it attempts to be an ungodly union of java and haskell to every last detail
12:09	justin_smith	right
12:09	justin_smith	(union in the conjugal and mathematical senses here)
12:09	jonathanj	uh, i might be stupid but why does (.write System/out (.getBytes "arst")) actually produce anything on stdout from the repl?
12:10	justin_smith	jonathanj: it does in mine, but won't in cider
12:10	ambrosebs	Bronsa: even partial is a big hack. Real annotation should (somehow) be: (All [r a ... b ...] [[a ... a b ... b -> r] a ... a -> [b ... b -> r]])
12:10	justin_smith	jonathanj: probably won't in fireplace.vim either
12:10	ambrosebs	you can see the first few cases of a ... a are manually added then we give up
12:10	jonathanj	i'm just running `lein repl`
12:11	justin_smith	then yes, that should print
12:11	ambrosebs	it's not obvious how to work with two dots next to each other
12:11	jonathanj	weird
12:11	justin_smith	jonathanj: try adding a \n to that string
12:11	justin_smith	because newline buffering is the default iirc
12:13	jonathanj	is (.write an-output-stream array_of_byte) the correct thing to do?
12:13	ambrosebs	Bronsa: the reason some-fn is so utterly ridiculous is that 1) it has the same problem as partial in that there is a repeating pattern with no way to abstract over them 2) ((some-fn number? symbol?) a) has to know what's true if it returns true or false
12:13	jonathanj	spit writes something like [B@6dd57b86 to stdout
12:13	ambrosebs	that involves digging into the type of number? and symbol? for some inner information
12:13	ambrosebs	which is currently disgusting to do
12:13	justin_smith	jonathanj: that's the toString of the array...
12:14	justin_smith	because spit expects a string
12:14	justin_smith	you could also use (spit (String. array_of_byte))
12:14	justin_smith	,(String. (.getBytes "hello"))
12:14	clojurebot	"hello"
12:15	hiredman	jonathanj: you likely need to flush after you write, or write a new line (many buffered streams flush on new line)
12:28	dreampilot	Hello everyone, can anyone point me to some examples or tutorials of how to call clojure code from java?
12:29	mpenet``	,(== (hash ["a"]) (hash (java.util.ArrayList. ["a"])))
12:29	clojurebot	false
12:29	mpenet``	and hours where lost on this one again :\|
12:29	justin_smith	mpenet``: value based hashes don't make much sense for mutable objects
12:29	mpenet``	were*
12:30	justin_smith	just like you wouldn't want value based identity for mutable objects
12:30	mpenet``	well I am not sure I'd agree, at least in this case
12:31	muraiki	dreampilot: http://www.braveclojure.com/java/
12:31	justin_smith	mpenet``: consider what happens if you used it as a key in a hash-map
12:31	mpenet``	in theory yes, but you encouter issues because of it all the time in the wild
12:31	mpenet``	exactly
12:31	justin_smith	if you want value based hash, use an immutable type?
12:32	mpenet``	not my choice, it's a db driver that returns nested DS with arraylists in that case
12:32	mpenet``	yes, I can walk them and convert all the values to ensure proper hash equality, but it's not free
12:33	mpenet``	,(= ["a"] (java.util.ArrayList. ["a"]))
12:33	clojurebot	true
12:35	mpenet``	for some background on it: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1372?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=38184#comment-38184
12:36	justin_smith	dreampilot: I'm not sure if this is still the best way, but it will work http://clojure.github.io/clojure/javadoc/clojure/java/api/package-summary.html#package_description
12:40	andyf	justin_smith: Regarding mpenet's issue, your argument about mixing mutable and immutable would be stronger if Clojure did not treat them as =, but it does.
12:42	justin_smith	andyf: yeah, that's a contradiction, but I think the answer lies in not treating mutables as equal to immutable, rather than using a value based hash-code for mutable objects
12:42	justin_smith	,(= (java.util.ArrayList. ["a"]) ["a"])
12:42	clojurebot	true
12:42	andyf	Unfortunately changing = that way would be breaking change for some code out there, almost certainly
12:43	justin_smith	that's true
12:43	justin_smith	we could join php in having an ever unfolding variety of equality comparators
12:56	bbloom	ambrosebs: type signatures are only documentation until you get up the haskell's lens package
12:56	bbloom	then you need fake/simplified type signatures to document your type signatures :-P
12:56	ambrosebs	bbloom: truth
12:56	ambrosebs	love the scala fake map annotation
12:57	or9ob	is there a way to clear/reset a ns in cider?
12:57	ambrosebs	I should get in the business of fake annotations
12:57	or9ob	My tests refer all fns from the ns under test and I have renamed things in there - but cider still complains about the old name
12:59	justin_smith	or9ob: you can manually destroy the ns with remove-ns, or use something like clojure.tools.namespace/refresh
13:00	or9ob	ah, thanks justin_smith
13:00	justin_smith	(doto 'my.ns remove-ns require) perhaps
13:01	justin_smith	or9ob: this may leave other namespaces that used / required that ns in a weird state though
13:02	muraiki	has anyone here used jclouds with clojure? I'm considering using it but haven't found much in terms of experiences
13:02	muraiki	I'd be using it with openstack in particular
13:07	Bronsa	yay. http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1232 pulled into 1.7
13:08	justin_smith	cool
13:13	stuartsierra	Just 'remove-ns' doesn't tell `require` that the namespace hasn't been loaded, so you have to force reloading.
13:13	justin_smith	stuartsierra: oh, thanks
13:13	stuartsierra	tools.namespace hacks into the internal machinery of `require` to make this work.
13:13	justin_smith	(inc stuartsierra)
13:13	lazybot	⇒ 19
13:13	ajmagnifico	Let's say I have a vector xs with 1,000,000 values in it. Let's say I have another vector indices with about 500,000 0-based index values in it. I want to select indices from xs. What would be the most efficient way to do that?
13:15	justin_smith	ajmagnifico: the first thing I would try is to map or mapv the vector over the indexes. Though a reduce may perform better.
13:15	justin_smith	,(mapv [:a :b :c :d :e] [1 2 3 2 1 0])
13:15	clojurebot	[:b :c :d :c :b ...]
13:16	justin_smith	,(reduce #(conj % (get [:a :b :c :d :e] %2)) [] [1 2 3 2 1 0])
13:16	clojurebot	[:b :c :d :c :b ...]
13:18	sm0ke	hello i am seeing a lot of `async-dispatch-...` threads in waiting state when using core.async
13:19	sm0ke	Anyone else faced this?
13:19	justin_smith	sm0ke: what are they waiting on?
13:20	sm0ke	the dump says waiting on condition [0x00...]
13:20	sm0ke	is it intelligible?
13:21	OldTree	Does the :source-paths option of Leiningen allow namespaces within a directory structure like src/clj/project_name/file1.clj to have ns names like project-name.file1? I ask because I am adding Clojurescript to this project and I changed the directory structure without changing the namespace names.
13:21	justin_smith	if they were waiting on a read or a lock, that would be an issue with your code. Waiting on a condition should be the normal thing in core.async right?
13:21	sm0ke	hurmm i dont know, i have a lot of problem with core.async and threads in general
13:22	eli-se	hi
13:22	sm0ke	one of my production system is bleeding threads profusely
13:22	justin_smith	sm0ke: well, core.async go blocks use a pool where they get reused...
13:22	justin_smith	sm0ke: are you using thread / Thread. extensively?
13:22	sm0ke	justin_smith: well the thread pool is famous numcores*2+42
13:23	sm0ke	but i am getting 12k threads
13:23	justin_smith	right, but it's not a leak if it's a constant amount
13:23	justin_smith	or am I grabbing the wrong part of what you are saying here?
13:23	ajmagnifico	justin_smith: Brilliant. (map xs indices) is blazing fast compared to the junk I was writing. I had forgotten that vectors can be used as functions. Thanks!
13:23	ajmagnifico	(inc justin_smith)
13:23	lazybot	⇒ 212
13:24	justin_smith	ajmagnifico: remember to compare it in a situation where the lazyness is forced of course :)
13:24	sm0ke	i am thinkng of giving aleph a try instead
13:24	ajmagnifico	will do, justin_smith, thanks
13:25	justin_smith	sm0ke: so aleph with manifold for the async dispatch?
13:25	jonathanj	can i access a private static inner class from clojure?
13:25	sm0ke	dont know much about the jargon here, mainfold?
13:25	justin_smith	jonathanj: via reflection, sure. But it's not guaranteed not to break things when you do stuff like that :)
13:26	justin_smith	sm0ke: manifold is what aleph does for async dispatch, so it's something you can actually compare to core.async
13:26	justin_smith	aleph itself is more comparable to ring-jetty-adaptor or http-kit
13:26	sm0ke	ah i see
13:27	justin_smith	s/does/uses
13:27	sm0ke	justin_smith: did you had a good experience wth core.async?
13:27	Guest8609	I've seen some comments that middleware is often not a good idea and I'd like to read something about it, anyone a recommendation?
13:28	justin_smith	sm0ke: yes, but I've only used it in production a couple of times
13:28	sm0ke	i find it very compelling to use but in reality it causes a lots of problems
13:28	justin_smith	Guest8609: what kind of middleware? what's the context here?
13:29	Guest8609	justin_smith: I guess what I saw was in the context of http handlers but I didn't have a specific area in mind
13:30	justin_smith	Guest8609: I have yet to see a clojure project that doesn't use middleware with http handlers, what was the argument against middleware?
13:30	justin_smith	that is, if they use http handlers, middleware gets used in every case I remember seeing
13:30	jonathanj	if i need to extend a java class and be able to call super, what are my options?
13:31	jonathanj	i read that chart linked earlier but it doesn't seem to really account for this
13:31	justin_smith	jonathanj: proxy + proxy-super
13:31	jonathanj	oh cool
13:32	Guest8609	justin_smith: I don't exactly remember, which is partly why I'm asking
13:33	Guest8609	justin_smith: I equally see middleware being used everywhere so the position seemed unpopular, got me curious
13:35	justin_smith	Guest8609: without any of the arguments or context I don't really have much I can say about it? I mean I guess the biggest problem would be you would have to implement all the middleware features by hand, and use them explicitly in each endpoint, and that just seems silly
13:39	cnb_	could I use annotations in a gen-class method parameter ?
13:39	Guest8609	justin_smith: yeah nevermind then, thought someone might have seen the same thing or something
13:52	Glenjamin	https://twitter.com/fogus/status/575712574815125504
13:53	justin_smith	ahh, that's likely the one
13:53	cnb_	I need to generate a coded deftype using gen-class but as my deftype uses annotations I do not know how to implement them using gen-class
14:03	jonathanj	i don't know if i'm going crazy but this error makes no sense to me:
14:03	jonathanj	Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.apache.fop.apps.FopFactoryBuilder
14:03	jonathanj	https://github.com/apache/fop/blob/fop-1_1/src/java/org/apache/fop/apps/FopFactoryBuilder.java
14:03	jonathanj	fop is a dependency in my project.clj and i can import other classes in that package
14:06	hiredman	jonathanj: just because you can see it on github that doesn't mean the version you are using has it
14:06	jonathanj	how can i actually verify that my dependency has it?
14:07	hiredman	find the source code for the version you have specified
14:07	hiredman	(or open the jar and look)
14:07	jonathanj	where do i get the jar from?
14:07	hiredman	what version are you depending on?
14:08	jonathanj	[org.apache.xmlgraphics/fop "1.1"]
14:08	jonathanj	i was wondering if there was some way to have lein fetch the jar for me and put it somewhere i can look at it
14:09	hiredman	do you have the whole tracktrace? how are you trying to use it? how do you know you have imported other classes from that package?
14:10	hellofunk	is there any reason to prefer one of these idioms over the other: (into [] (for [x (range 10)] x)) vs. (vec (for [x (range 10)] x))
14:10	jonathanj	yes, i have the whole traceback but it's mostly pottering around clojure's internals
14:11	jonathanj	hiredman: i imported something else from a repl
14:11	jonathanj	=> (import '[org.apache.fop.apps FOUserAgent])
14:11	jonathanj	org.apache.fop.apps.FOUserAgent
14:11	amalloy	jonathanj: if someone asks you for a full stacktrace, "i have it but i won't give it to you" is the wrong answer
14:11	amalloy	it may be useless ot you, but hiredman knows a lot about clojure's internals
14:12	jonathanj	http://hastebin.com/omucubiyij.txt
14:12	amalloy	(i suspect this particular one won't be very illuminating, but i would be interested to see what hiredman expects to get from it)
14:12	jonathanj	i didn't say i wouldn't give it to anyone
14:13	jonathanj	i just didn't think anyone would find it particularly useful
14:13	amalloy	jonathanj: i'm with hiredman: whatever version of the library you're getting doesn't have this class in it
14:13	hiredman	jonathanj: what happens when you do the same import in the repl for FopFactoryBuilder?
14:14	jonathanj	hiredman: pretty much what you'd expect:
14:14	jonathanj	=> (import '[org.apache.fop.apps FopFactoryBuilder])
14:14	jonathanj	ClassNotFoundException org.apache.fop.apps.FopFactoryBuilder java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:366)
14:15	justin_smith	that's not a stack trace
14:15	amalloy	justin_smith: nah, but we already got a stacktrace
14:15	justin_smith	oh, never mind :)
14:15	hiredman	so lein, like maven, fetches jars and stashes them in ~/.m2
14:16	hiredman	`lein classpath` will actually should you the jars
14:16	hiredman	you might try `lein deps :tree` just to see if you are getting the wrong version of the library for some reason
14:17	jonathanj	so indeed, the jar doesn't seem to include a .class file for that class
14:22	jonathanj	it looks like whatever is on maven is the thing tagged as fop-1_1old in git and fop-1_1 is some thing that apparently never made it to maven
14:22	jonathanj	terrific
14:23	hiredman	sounds like an apache project
14:26	djames	Any favorite hosted services for private Maven repos?
14:29	djames	This page doesn't list hosted options: http://maven.apache.org/repository-management.html
14:30	sdegutis	What seq-based function would you use to split "foo bar quux" into ["foo", "bar", "quux"]?
14:32	justin_smith	I wouldn't use a seq-based function, because that is a string. clojure.string/split
14:32	Bronsa	sdegutis: why seq-based? that's what clojure.string/split is for
14:32	sdegutis	I'm trying to practice writing a recursive function that would do it.
14:32	sdegutis	But I don't know how the algorithm should wokr.
14:32	Bronsa	,(clojure.string/split "foo bar quux" #"\s+")
14:32	postpunkjustin	I guess you could use reduce?
14:32	clojurebot	["foo" "bar" "quux"]
14:32	postpunkjustin	If that's really what you want
14:33	sdegutis	So I'm looking into what function would typically do this so I can see how it's implemented.
14:33	sdegutis	I thought maybe it's group-by or partition or something, but no.
14:33	sdegutis	Closest is partition-by.
14:33	postpunkjustin	Oh yeah, maybe partition-by (complement clojure.string/blank?)
14:34	postpunkjustin	Not 100% sure
14:34	sdegutis	But partition-by leaves the ' ' inthere.
14:34	postpunkjustin	just filter it after?
14:34	postpunkjustin	This is a super weird way to do it
14:34	sdegutis	,(partition-by #(= % \space) "foo bar quux")
14:34	clojurebot	((\f \o \o) (\space) (\b \a \r) (\space \space \space) (\q \u \u \x))
14:35	sdegutis	Isn't there a pretty recursive algorithm to do this
14:40	justin_smith	the recursive version is ugly
14:40	justin_smith	,(loop [s "foo bar baz" part "" strs []] (if (empty? s) (conj strs part) (if (= (first s) \space) (recur (subs s 1) "" (if (empty? part) strs (conj strs part))) (recur (subs s 1) (str part (first s)) strs))))
14:40	clojurebot	["foo" "bar" "baz"]
14:49	turbofail	(defn split-by [pred s] (if (empty? s) s (cons (take-while (complement pred) s) (split-by pred (rest (drop-while (complement pred) s))))))
14:52	ToBeReplaced	any way to check if getting the next item of a seq would block?
14:53	turbofail	no. you can check if a value is available for a lazy seq, which will tell you that it for sure won't block
14:54	ToBeReplaced	turbofail: how? that's exactly what i want to do
14:54	turbofail	use "realized?"
14:56	ToBeReplaced	okay, wasn't what i was looking for, that's okay; makes sense that you can't do what I want, just figured i'd ask in case i missed an obvious pattern
14:56	justin_smith	,(realized? (range))
14:56	clojurebot	false
14:56	justin_smith	,(realized? (doall (range 10)))
14:56	clojurebot	true
14:57	paulswilliamsesq	Whoop, big win today on my introducing Clojure to where I work. Paired on a simple refactoring with a really well respected maths grad today, and he started raving about how easy Clojure is to understand and change.
14:57	justin_smith	nice!
14:57	arrdem	good goooooood
14:57	ToBeReplaced	i can always just put the seq to a channel, since that's really what I'm doing, and then take with a timeout
14:57	turbofail	huh. did you use a structural editor?
14:57	turbofail	i don't feel like it's all that easy to change without it
14:59	ambrosebs	paulswilliamsesq: congrats
15:00	jonathanj	hrm, is there any reason that (.write (output-stream ...) bytes) would be different to (.write System/out bytes)?
15:00	paulswilliamsesq	ambrosebs cheers, I get frustrated by my slow progress in learning Clojure due to less frequent than I'd like exposure.
15:01	justin_smith	jonathanj: well, it's a PrintStream, dunno how much difference that makes
15:01	paulswilliamsesq	ambrosebs Jay Field's talk at QCon London a couple of weeks earlier helped too :-)
15:01	justin_smith	jonathanj: the class heirarchy is OutputStream -> FilterOutputStream -> PrintStream
15:02	jonathanj	hrm
15:03	justin_smith	$javadoc java.io.PrintStream
15:03	lazybot	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/PrintStream.html
15:03	justin_smith	jonathanj: the docs indicate that PrintStream adds things like auto-flushing that OutputStream does not have
15:05	jonathanj	if i render this PDF and write it to System/out (and redirect it to a file in my shell) i get this weirdly broken PDF (it's totally blank but it has pages defined)
15:05	jonathanj	if i write it to a file from clojure then it's fine
15:06	justin_smith	odd
15:06	jonathanj	very
15:08	arrdem	justin_smith: ping
15:08	justin_smith	yello
15:08	dysfun	Bronsa: which reader do i want to create to read edn from a file recording the line numbers?
15:10	Bronsa	dysfun: an indexing-push-back-reader
15:11	arrdem	Thinking about Grimoire editing.. current plan is that each "artifact" (documented Maven artifact) will somehow indicate where it's sourced from and if the where is github I can generate fork and pr links to edit content.
15:11	dysfun	Bronsa: thanks
15:12	arrdem	comments/complaints welcome I'm stressing over how to make the "edit link" thing extensible although fundamentally it may not be.
15:13	arrdem	I guess it just isn't because examples and notes are fundamentally Grimoire's data not docs which could be vendored.
15:13	justin_smith	arrdem: I guess you could have the app create pull requests, and the config would indicate which repo to make them on? But it may be easier to create a queue of proposed changes in a db.
15:14	justin_smith	a wiki model might make more sense than a source control model
15:14	arrdem	meh..
15:14	arrdem	a wiki may make more sense but I don't want to join Raynes in dealing with auth and spammers.
15:15	justin_smith	makes sense
15:15	arrdem	GH gives me auth at the cost of a longer workflow.
15:15	justin_smith	arrdem: you can make it create refheap pastes out of submissions, and track the URLs heh
15:15	arrdem	lol that'd be nice..
15:16	jonathanj	hrm, i think the problem here is that my bytes are being encoded to UTF-8 or something
15:16	justin_smith	arrdem: ahh, so someone would use their own github account to push button create a pr for the doc update?
15:16	arrdem	justin_smith: bingo.
15:16	arrdem	same as I was doing back ~Grim 2.x
15:16	jonathanj	is it possible to just write plain bytes to stdout?
15:19	justin_smith	jonathanj: if this were c, the normal thing would be to reopen stdout with different parameters (raw vs. cooked mode, buffering, etc.)
15:20	justin_smith	I don't know if there is a java equivalent of this actually
15:22	jonathanj	output written directly to a file: https://pb.codehash.net/444fdc3368a042b2a6d8dddb321f195c
15:22	jonathanj	output redirected to a file: https://pb.codehash.net/d517012d69854973b2a13c9a6e133dbe
15:22	jonathanj	it's kind of bizarre, i've never actually seen this before
15:24	jonathanj	someone just pointed this out:
15:24	jonathanj	>>> name('efbfbd'.decode('hex').decode('utf8'))
15:24	jonathanj	'REPLACEMENT CHARACTER'
15:24	jonathanj	so it's definitely some kind of encoding trainwreck but i have no idea what's introducing it
15:24	justin_smith	jonathanj: it could be that the jvm thinks your stdout cannot accept those characters
15:25	justin_smith	but you'd think it would notice a file redirect and handle that differently...
15:25	jonathanj	how do i get the JVM to mind its own business?
15:30	amalloy	jonathanj: write bytes instead of characters, probably
15:31	jonathanj	i'm pretty sure i am writing bytes
15:31	amalloy	this behavior makes me think you have a bytestream you want to write, and you're converting it to a string as if via (String. the-bytes) and then writing that
15:32	amalloy	jonathanj: what does the writing code for your "directly to file" look like vs "written to stdout"?
15:33	jonathanj	amalloy: well, i'm just giving an OutputStream to Flying Saucer's ITextRenderer.createPDF method
15:33	jonathanj	so the difference is whether i pass System/out or whether i pass (output-stream "xxx.pdf")
15:34	jonathanj	i guess i could use a ByteArrayOutputStream and write the bytes to System/out to see if it makes a difference
15:34	amalloy	jonathanj: System/out is a PrintStream, though
15:35	amalloy	which has a write(byte[]) method, which should work, but it's possible this createPDF thing has an overload for PrintStreams that does something dumb
15:35	amalloy	eg, i expect if you passed (PrintStream. (output-stream "xxx.pdf")), you would get similarly broken behavior
15:37	jonathanj	hrm
15:37	jonathanj	https://pb.codehash.net/34e68111fa894f049b8c249e6e1645fa
15:37	jonathanj	this still produces the weird output
15:47	jonathanj	sigh
15:48	jonathanj	so if i write (.toByteArray byte-array-stream) to (output-stream "xx.pdf") and to System/out (via the write method) then i get two results
15:48	jonathanj	xx.pdf is intact and whatever was redirected is broken
15:49	amalloy	beats me, jonathanj. i don't think that's supposed to happen. if i try writing a byte-array with invalid utf-8 in it to System/out, i seem to get those bytes appearing as expected
15:54	amalloy	eg, if i take some bytes from your "good" output, and write them to stdout via a simple program containing only (.write System/out (byte-array (map unchecked-byte [0xe2 0xe3 0xcf 0xd3]))), then my stdout contains those four bytes unmolested
15:55	amalloy	perhaps your shell is mangling them? try running this program and see what output you get: https://www.refheap.com/92f7edb8dcc2542cb3f659492
15:56	jonathanj	a bunch of replacement characetrs
15:56	amalloy	okay, so in lieu of further evidence i am blaming your shell
15:56	clojurebot	Excuse me?
15:56	justin_smith	termcap?
15:56	amalloy	clojurebot: in lieu of further evidence i am \|blaming\| your shell
15:56	clojurebot	Alles klar
16:01	jonathanj	jonathan@Callisto ~/Coding/documint> python -c 'import sys; sys.stdout.write("\xe2\xe3\xcf\xd3")' \| xxd
16:01	jonathanj	0000000: e2e3 cfd3 ....
16:06	Frozenlock	ah! I just discovered dash.el to bring many clojure goodies into emacs.
16:06	Frozenlock	(for the curious https://github.com/magnars/dash.el)
16:11	jonathanj	amalloy: this also outputs the original bytes unadulterated: https://pb.codehash.net/9c58bb20462c4e3cbea445a4b7b53ee7
16:15	amalloy	wait, how are you running your code? lein repl?
16:15	jonathanj	`lein run`
16:17	jonathanj	java -jar /Users/jonathan/.m2/repository/org/clojure/clojure/1.6.0/clojure-1.6.0.jar -e '(.write System/out (byte-array (map unchecked-byte [0xe2 0xe3 0xcf 0xd3])))' \| xxd
16:17	jonathanj	0000000: e2e3 cfd3 ....
16:18	amalloy	so taht version works fine, and lein run doesn't. what about lein trampoline run?
16:20	jonathanj	yeah, that works
16:21	amalloy	jonathanj: look for related issues in the leiningen repo, and if you can't find one i'd file a new bug
16:21	amalloy	well, i guess try updating to latest lein first
16:22	jonathanj	Leiningen 2.5.1 on Java 1.7.0_45 Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
16:23	jonathanj	i'm not sure how to determine the newest version, but i see the master project.clj is 2.5.2-SNAPSHOT
16:29	justin_smith	jonathanj: if java -jar works properly, that should at least be enough for the pragmatics - lein is better as a build tool rather than a launcher. Still good to track down the root of the issue of course
16:38	justin_smith	akkad: what I typically do is look for anything "suspicious" or unusual in the stack traces, and check the process CPU usage and the results of multiple jstack calls to see if something is in a tight loop
16:38	justin_smith	akkad: what are the symptoms? just the process sitting there not exiting, or are you also not seeing output you would expect?
16:39	akkad	stops responding to http requests
16:39	justin_smith	akkad: as in connection refused, or timing out with no response?
16:47	dysfun	hrm. lein can't find my gpg key for some reason. any ideas?
16:48	dysfun	i get this error https://www.refheap.com/98522
16:53	akkad	justin_smith nginx timesout
16:53	akkad	talking to clojure backend
16:54	crash_ep	does Clojure support heredocs or any form of string literal that doesn't require escaping quote individual quote characters?
16:56	jonathanj	justin_smith: yeah, unfortunately `java -jar` is kind of an inconvenient way to run my app while i'm developing it
16:57	jonathanj	justin_smith, amalloy: thank you for your help and patience, i filed a bug with lein
16:57	jonathanj	(for reference, <https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1857>)
16:58	justin_smith	jonathanj: a workaround: lein cp > class_path; java -cp $(cat class_path) clojure.main -m my.ns
16:59	justin_smith	if you don't change your project.clj, you don't even need to run lein cp next time
16:59	justin_smith	though of course, having lein fixed would be better
17:01	amalloy	justin_smith: java -cp `lein classpath` ...
17:01	amalloy	but really, lein trampoline run is better than that
17:02	justin_smith	amalloy: I suggested my version because you can skip lein the second time
17:02	amalloy	especially with LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINE=yes_please
17:02	justin_smith	and because $() is provably superior to ``
17:02	amalloy	justin_smith: LEIN_FAST_TRAMPOLINE actually skips lein the second time too, and is better at remembering whether you've changed project.clj than you are
17:03	justin_smith	amalloy: fair point on that one
17:07	expez	What does it mean when (println my-map) prints #<PersistentArrayMap {:foo "bar"}> instead of {:foo "bar"}?
17:08	snowstalker	expez: it means it's a small map, it shouldn't affect your usage of it though
17:08	hiredman	it means someone has been mucking with your print methods, or you are running multiple clojure runtimes
17:08	expez	snowstalker: to get "bar" I can't do (:foo my-map) or (get my-map :foo), but (-> my-map first second) works fine
17:08	snowstalker	expez: oh, see what hiredman said
17:09	hiredman	multiple clojure runtimes, which, how you could do that accidentally I have no idea
17:09	expez	hiredman: the latter is true, the code runs inside classlojure
17:09	hiredman	yeah
17:10	expez	hiredman: how did you know, what does #<..> mean?
17:10	hiredman	it is how unknown objects are printed
17:10	Bronsa	were* :P
17:10	hiredman	sure sure
17:10	Bronsa	speaking of which hiredman clojurebot behaves weirdly in this regard
17:10	hiredman	pams are a known object, so for them to print as known, it means that pam is not the pam of the clojure runtime where println was called
17:11	Bronsa	,)
17:11	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
17:11	Bronsa	,(Exception. "")
17:11	clojurebot	#error{:cause "", :via [{:type java.lang.Exception, :message "", :at [sandbox$eval47 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]}], :trace [[sandbox$eval47 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1] [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6784] [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6747] [clojure.core$eval invoke "core.clj" 3078] [clojure.core$eval25$fn__26$fn__36 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0] ...]}
17:11	Bronsa	,(throw (Exception. ""))
17:11	clojurebot	#error{:cause "", :via [{:type java.lang.Exception, :message "", :at [sandbox$eval71 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1]}], :trace [[sandbox$eval71 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1] [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6784] [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6747] [clojure.core$eval invoke "core.clj" 3078] [clojure.core$eval49$fn__50$fn__60 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" 0] ...]}
17:11	Bronsa	shouldn't the first one print like the other two?
17:12	expez	hiredman: aha! but why is it affecting the code? The keywords have been namespaced and :foo isn't was it once was?
17:12	hiredman	the first exception is actually happening in a different version of clojure of course
17:12	Bronsa	of course
17:12	hiredman	expez: the Keyword type from the different clojure runtimes is not the same
17:13	expez	hiredman: that makes perfect sense. Thanks a bunch!
17:13	expez	(inc hiredman)
17:13	lazybot	⇒ 75
17:15	dysfun	ugh. can i test signing a jar without doing a lein deploy?
17:48	justin_smith	dysfun: you could run a repl with the lein deps, and call leiningen.deploy/sign directly
17:48	justin_smith	after loading your project file manually etc.
17:49	justin_smith	with leiningen.core.project/read
18:11	akuttruff	Hello all -- I'm new to Cider and am trying to (println (str request)). Where can I see these?
18:12	nullptr	akuttruff: i believe these typically show up in the repl view (C-c C-z)
18:12	justin_smith	akuttruff: nullptr: if it doesn't show up in the repl window, it will be in the buried nrepl server buffer
18:12	justin_smith	or whatever it is called these days
18:13	justin_smith	this happens because the print is happening from a thread that has not inherited your main thread's value of out
18:14	justin_smith	akuttruff: see my answer to this question on SO http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26743958/why-cant-i-print-from-background-threads-in-clojure-cider-repl-in-emacs/26744113#26744113
18:14	akuttruff	thank you! I appreciate the help
18:29	patchwork	(inc justin_smith)
18:29	lazybot	⇒ 213
18:33	{blake}	So, a while back I moved this utility routine (map-function-on-map-values) from my various source namespaces (it was in more than one) to a "utility" namespace.
18:33	{blake}	This is a web-based app. And when I change the code, it forces me to re-login.
18:34	{blake}	But sometimes, since I moved this function over, instead of forcing me to login, it just plotzes: Unable to resolve symbol:map-function-on-mapvals in this context.
18:34	{blake}	I can hit refresh and get past this, but it won't have the new code, it'll be running the old code.
18:36	hiredman	because you are using lein-ring with its bizzaro code reloading
18:36	{blake}	hiredman: Yes, I am. I did not know it was bizarro. But I find that somewhat reassuring, I guess.
18:37	{blake}	So, this is like a dead parrot thing? "Yes, it'll do that."
18:39	hiredman	I dunno, I don't use it, I sort of took a shot in the dark
18:39	hiredman	if I want to load/replace/run code I do it via a repl
18:39	hiredman	not by saving a file and crossing my fingers
18:40	{blake}	Aw, crap, I forgot to cross my fingers.
19:06	freddd	hey, all. i was explaining clojure's immutable data structures to my friend, and he asked me for real-world examples of where they are a benefit. i could only come up with two examples: how you don't have to worry about the data changing if there is some long-running computation that needs to be done, and how perhaps in updating/rendering, if you know the value of the root node, you can simply do cheap pointer equality checks to dete
19:06	freddd	can anyone offer some other concrete examples of their benefits?
19:07	amalloy	freddd: you never have to call clone. you can just share pointers to your data freely
19:07	amalloy	and trust that data someone else gave you won't suddenly evaporate in the middle of working on it
19:08	johnmendonca	freddd: concurrent access, no need to worry about order of mutation by multiple threads
19:08	{blake}	freddd: And you don't need a long-running computation. Pass a collection of objects to any routine and you really don't know what you're going to get back.
19:09	freddd	amalloy: ok. i think that's perhaps a better, more general version of my first example. thanks.
19:09	freddd	{blake}: good point!
19:09	ToxicFrog	freddd: you get infinite undo (for editors, etc) basically for free
19:09	nullptr	freddd: i did a presentation on immutability targeted at c#/.net developers which attempts to make a case (may be nsfw depending on your "w") https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1DlqP8Yil13RMbOc4OA4n-juuYQt5-YuN-YKIwH1H9HE/edit?usp=sharing
19:09	amalloy	freddd: another example: java.lang.String
19:10	amalloy	try replacing every use of String in your programs with StringBuffer, and see how much harder it makes things for you to be correct
19:10	ToxicFrog	I mean, you have to spend the memory for the history, but structure sharing means that it's cheap and immutability means it doesn't really take any extra work to keep the history intact
19:10	freddd	johnmendonca: yeah, i mentioned that, but he was looking for more concrete. i think substantial threading is not nearly as popular, so he (and i, quite frankly) are not super-familiar with where this would be an obvious win.
19:11	freddd	ToxicFrog: yes, very true. i did mention that. thanks!
19:11	freddd	nullptr: that's great, as c# is his primary language, though I typically stay away, but will definitely the link.
19:11	ToxicFrog	(and substructure sharing means that doing this is much cheaper than cloning on every edit as you would in something where the state is mutable)
19:12	{blake}	fredd: You could check out Ants. That's kind of a cool short example with lecture by Rich Hickey and everything.
19:13	TEttinger	yeah, I'm going to be rolling my own "atomic updates to a single unified state variable" thing in C# to get infinite undo
19:14	TEttinger	I think knowing how clojure does it may help :)
19:14	freddd	{blake}: I have watched that, but forgot about it. i kept hashing out examples that seemed similar in retrosepct, but would then realize it was atoms/agents that were doing the most benefit, not so much the data structure.
19:14	brehaut	TEttinger: step one: create an F# project...
19:15	TEttinger	I asked in the F# channel and got no response!
19:15	nullptr	TEttinger: ms distributes first class immutable collections these days for all .net langs, so this shouldn't be terribly difficult
19:16	{blake}	freddd: Well, I think the interesting thing about that is that you don't normally use atoms/agents. Most of your functions will be pure. So when it comes time to deal with the state, you give it the appropriate respect.
19:16	TEttinger	nullptr: huh, I hadn't thought of using those. I'm currently making heavy use of C5, which is an expanded set of data structures for C#/CLR
19:16	{blake}	There is a mindset thing going on here.
19:21	brehaut	{blake}, TEttinger: do any of those collections do structural sharing?
19:21	{blake}	brehaut: Which collections? AFAIK, in Clojure, they all do. =P
19:22	brehaut	{blake}: the .net ones. obviously im aware that clojure does
19:22	brehaut	{blake}: the .net immutable collections specifically
19:23	nullptr	brehaut: yes
19:23	brehaut	nullptr: cool, thaks
19:23	TEttinger	brehaut: that's what I'm implementing, effectively... the idea is to make some sort of way to update a data-holding class by giving it a new state that's partially filled
19:23	{blake}	nullptr, brehaut: Be interesting to see immutable collections that didn't. They'd end up having to clone everything, which presents some interesting problems.
19:24	brehaut	and sorry {blake} i accidentally addresse you instead of nullptr
19:24	{blake}	brehaut: np
20:22	raspasov	hey guys, has anyone here used https://github.com/mcohen01/amazonica ?
20:54	bostonaholic	no, but I have used https://github.com/weavejester/clj-aws-s3 (only for s3)
20:55	bostonaholic	I haven't needed everything that amazonica provides, so I stuck with the smaller lib
21:03	raspasov	bostonaholic: thanks for input!
21:33	Morgawr	I have a question, I've been getting my hands on prismatic schema. The prismatic defrecord is nice if I want to have some sanitization/validation of inputs in my functions, however I noticed that it does not allow me to use maps that are supersets of the specified record type
21:34	Morgawr	for example if I declare a record type to have :a :b and :c keys, if I pass a record with {:a X :b Y :c Z :d K} it will be invalid (where X Y Z K are whatever values)
21:34	Morgawr	I can use optional keys if I know what their name is going to be, however I will not know that in advance and all I care about is for the primary keys specified in the original record to be there, is there a way to do that?
21:45	Jabberz	so what's the choice validation library out there today -- formative? bouncer? validateur? red tape?
23:47	bcm	Morgawr: You can do that.
23:48	bcm	if you write a schema like (def a-and-anything {:a s/Str, s/Keyword s/Any})
23:48	bcm	i think that will work
23:51	bcm	looks to work on my box, anyway.
23:51	bcm	Now I have a question! I have a curl that is pretty involved. What's the best way to turn it into a function using something like http-kit client or clj-http?
23:52	bcm	also, there's some clojure-talk going on now on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9214603
23:52	raspasov	what do you mean by "curl that is pretty involved" ?