#clojure – 2015-03-11

2015-03-11

00:33	cshell	Has anyone had problems with clojure.xml and clojure.zip and clojure.data.zip with using a ton of memory even for a 3k XML doc?
01:42	tinkertron	hi does anyone here know anything about hash array mapped tries?
01:44	amalloy	cshell: how much is "a ton"? i wouldn't be surprised if it used, i dunno, a meg or so?
01:44	amalloy	and how do you even know it's using up memory irretrievably, vs the garbage collector just not running yet?
01:45	cshell	amalloy: upwards of a GB - it’s more of a REPL problem I think - when you navigate down and print the children, the REPL output increases significantly
01:46	cshell	so i was navigating down to where I had 187 children - these children printed to the REPL (as they were returned from a fn i called there) had the entire zipper
01:47	amalloy	okay, so the problem is that your repl buffers output indefinitely, or what?
01:48	cshell	yeah
01:48	cshell	if I add a zip selector to just select an attribute name that’s much better
01:48	cshell	rather than the zip location
01:49	cshell	so a ton of output to the REPL
01:49	amalloy	okay, so fix your repl
01:49	amalloy	the amount of stuff printed to the repl should not be a concern
01:50	macknees	hello, I am looking at using the java method .readPassword in a simple project. I do not know java.
01:50	macknees	When I call the method in my repl I get an error unless I wrap the call inside another call to
01:50	macknees	(String/valueOf call.
01:51	macknees	Even when I do the wrapping, my .readPassword method returns after I type 1 character.
01:51	cshell	amalloy: I’m not super familiar with the REPL configurations - is there a way to prevent it from spewing endless data?
01:51	macknees	I am not sure what to make of this.
01:52	macknees	I am guessing that .readPassword returns a datatype that clojure doesn't directly understand, is that correct?
01:55	ncthom91	hey all. I'm working on a project to learn clojure, and I'm doing a lot with trees and tree traversals. What's the idiomatic clojure way to approach working with trees? Represent a tree as data (i.e. nested maps) and write functions to operate on them, or somethign more like this (http://macromancy.com/2014/04/09/data-structures-clojure-trees.html) which is kind of an OO approach expressed in clojure
01:56	ncthom91	some of the reading I've been doing suggests that identifying a tree node as a record (defined with defrecord) will have better perf characteristics than the OO approach described in that article
01:56	cshell	ncthom91: I’ve been using Clojure Zippers (clojure.zip and clojure.data.zip) for working with my trees
01:56	amalloy	cshell: what i'm getting at is, i don't know of any repls where output buffering is a major concern. i don't know what repl you are running, so i don't know how you would fix it if it were a problem, but i kinda suspect you are running a common repl and some misunderstanding has caused you to think it is buffering too much data
01:57	cshell	amalloy: I’m using Cursive
01:57	cshell	amalloy: maybe it’s because it’s doing a walk of the tree upwards and it’s exploding exponentially
01:58	ncthom91	cshell woah. Never seen clojure.zip before, this looks sweet
01:58	cshell	:)
01:58	amalloy	cshell: talk to cfleming
01:58	amalloy	since it's embedded in an ide, for all i know it does buffer indefinitely
01:59	cshell	yeah, probably :) thanks amalloy :)
02:02	macknees	Can anyone recommend an active channel for newbies?
02:03	macknees	I've tried clojure-beginners on multiple occasions, there is never any chat going on when I'm there
02:03	macknees	I have no idea where I should try
02:04	ncthom91	cshell so with clojure.zip, your trees are just raw data? like nested maps or vectors?
02:05	cshell	I think so - each call to a function returns a new structure
02:05	cshell	macknees: If you want someone to help you, you should be more descriptive or put your code example in pastebin and then paste the link here
02:05	macknees	thanks cshell, will do
02:10	macknees	here's a simple example of the .readPassword code I'm trying to get working: http://pastebin.com/QZh6fX7p
02:18	macknees	Can anyone help me understand why I can call (String/valueOf but for readPassword I have to call (.readPassword (System/console) ? I'm a bit confused by namespaces in java, I don't know what is "included by default" when I run my repl.
02:18	macknees	why does readpassword need the . macro but String/valueOf does not?
02:20	macknees	I was trying to resist learning java first, because I worried that it might make the idiomatic clojure way more foreign to me
02:20	macknees	I want to learn clojure because I have a personal interest in lisp and because clojure looked very active with lots of libraries
02:21	Jaood	macknees: only java.lang is imported by default
02:21	macknees	I started reading about it, watching rich on youtube, and looking at code and it appeals to me
02:22	macknees	thanks Jaood. I will look at java.lang and see what is included there.
02:23	macknees	I only need the .readpassword because my project will interact with a web service and I don't want the password to be saved or exposed in plaintext
02:24	macknees	when the application runs it will prompt for the password on the command line
02:25	macknees	I have done this in python and it was very easy. I think I am missing something obvious here...
02:26	macknees	Jaood, do you have any idea how a proficient java programmer would know if System.console was included under java.lang? I can look on google, but is there a more concise search engine to answer this type of question?
02:28	engblom	macknees: I have a suggestion: It looks like nobody is around able to help at this point. Just use read-line for now and later add that java thing later...
02:28	engblom	macknees: In that way you can continue with your project
02:30	macknees	engblom: thank you for that. I will look at read-line.
02:32	Jaood	macknees: they use the api docs
02:32	Jaood	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/
02:33	macknees	Jaood - I think there is no shortcut for me, but it was worth a try :-)
02:33	macknees	In the end at some point I will probably need more knowledge of Java
03:33	luxbock	should I read The Little Schemer before The Reasoned Schemer, or does it matter?
03:33	luxbock	I see The Reasoned Schemer has a Kindle edition but The Little Schemer doesn't
03:34	luxbock	actually it looks like the reviews say that the Kindle version is not very good
04:49	borkdude	has anyone here played with modules in cljsbuild? my config isn't working for me
04:49	borkdude	https://www.refheap.com/98297
04:50	borkdude	it ouput a single file to /target currently with the prod build
05:23	justin_smith	I thought I understood metadata, but I don't understand this error
05:23	justin_smith	,(with-meta (var +) {:foo true})
05:23	clojurebot	#error{:cause "clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IObj", :via [{:type java.lang.ClassCastException, :message "clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IObj", :at [clojure.core$with_meta__4097 invoke "core.clj" 216]}], :trace [[clojure.core$with_meta__4097 invoke "core.clj" 216] [sandbox$eval25 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1] [clojure.lang.Compiler eval "Compiler.java" 6784] [clojur...
05:24	justin_smith	how is metadata attached to vars?
05:27	zot	jkkkkjjjjkkkjjjkkkkkkkjkkj
05:27	zot	!@#!@$!. sorry.
05:27	dysfun	anyone familiar with avout?
05:27	justin_smith	yeah, I've used it, it's pretty cool if you don't need watches of any sort
05:27	_2_tuliver	hello am new here
05:28	dysfun	justin_smith: and thereby you answer the question i was going to follow up with
05:28	dysfun	well, one of them
05:28	_2_tuliver	how do we use this app
05:28	justin_smith	watches in avout don't really work
05:28	dysfun	the other one is "i can't see ensure anywhere"
05:28	_2_tuliver	helllloooooii
05:28	_2_tuliver	is anyone listining
05:28	justin_smith	_2_tuliver: clojure is a programming language
05:28	dysfun	_2_tuliver: don't be rude
05:29	dysfun	justin_smith: does the lack of 'ensure' cause a problem?
05:29	_2_tuliver	so those here aint reall people?
05:29	dysfun	not everyone pays attention all the time
05:30	dysfun	if you have a question, please ask with more detail than "how do we use this app?" which doesn't make any sense on its own
05:30	justin_smith	dysfun: hmm... I haven't used the avout refs to be honest.
05:30	dysfun	oh, just the atoms?
05:31	justin_smith	yeah, I used the atoms for sharing of state between app instances
05:31	justin_smith	it works well for small amounts of data that don't need to be instantly acted on
05:31	justin_smith	variations from that, ymmv
05:31	dysfun	yeah, i have...higher throughput needs
05:32	justin_smith	yeah, avout is not made for throughput
05:32	justin_smith	you may want to look into zeromq, hornetmq, redis...
05:32	_2_tuliver	hmmm i seee guys are very boring
05:32	_2_tuliver	you are boring
05:32	dysfun	_2_tuliver: this is a programming themed channel. what did you expect?
05:34	dysfun	justin_smith: well i was hoping avout would be fact enough :/
05:34	justin_smith	dysfun: oh, it's fast
05:35	justin_smith	it's just not high throughput
05:35	dysfun	heh
05:35	dysfun	see i'd rather have it the other way
05:35	justin_smith	latency vs. throughput is a classic optimization problem
05:35	dysfun	i'm happy for writes to take a little while
05:35	justin_smith	yeah, I think some of those other IPC options are more throughput oriented, or at least more tunable
05:36	dysfun	sigh i'm going to have to roll my own on top of zookeeper aren't i?
05:52	justin_smith	dysfun: no, what I am describing is a limitation due to zookeeper
05:52	justin_smith	zookeeper is not designed for throughput
05:52	engblom	luxbock: Regarding your question about Little Schemer, I want to first ask how well you know Clojure?
05:53	engblom	luxbock: Actually, if you want to learn Clojure by reading Little Schemer?
05:54	engblom	luxbock: Scheme and Clojure are similar in many ways, but they are not the same language at all
05:55	justin_smith	dysfun: hmm, I may need to eat my words on that - it could be that avout is more limited for throughput than zookeeper, or is not as limited as I had come to understand
05:55	justin_smith	dysfun: mayber I misidentified a bottleneck in my code - wouldn't be the first time
05:55	justin_smith	haha, mayber
06:04	cfleming	dysfun: The problem with being happy for writes to take a little while is that then they're not consistent - it goes against what something like zookeeper is designed to do. I haven't used avout, but given that it talks about MVCC and STM I guess that consistency is an important goal for them
06:09	cfleming	dysfun: Actually, feel free to ignore me - that's not right at all
06:10	dysfun	isn't it?
06:10	dysfun	so i'm prepared for eventual consistency and i'm willing to perform manual merges
06:10	borkdude	the embedded jetty that is run by lein ring uberjar doesn't do gzip compression by default, right?
06:11	dysfun	borkdude: you need a middleware for that
06:11	borkdude	ok
06:11	dysfun	unless you can tap into it with options. i can't remember
06:13	dysfun	you can probably configure it in. it seems like something i'd expect jetty to support
06:15	cfleming	dysfun: No, it's almost exactly wrong. More consistent writes take longer - a major goal of most eventually consistent systems is write availability (Dynamo is the classic example). Datomic is probably write limited since to achieve consistency all writes go through the transactor - this makes consistency easy(ier) but limits write throughput.
06:15	dysfun	nod
06:16	cfleming	dysfun: If you're really ready for manual merges, what about something like cassandra? I haven't used it but I believe it exposes write consistency knobs, and those must include application merging
06:17	dysfun	cfleming: i've been put off cassandra since i've been reading aphyr's "call me maybe" series
06:17	cfleming	dysfun: I haven't read the cassandra entry there
06:17	dysfun	ah, well it rather points out that it's an AP system not a CP system
06:18	cfleming	Which is what you want if you're prepared for eventual consistency and merging, right?
06:19	dysfun	it would be, except that it just outright drops some acknowledged data
06:19	dysfun	if it guaranteed at least once delivery, that'd be fine
06:19	dysfun	once it's been acked, i mean
06:19	dysfun	i'm perfectly happy for the db to refuse to run something
06:20	cfleming	Ok, that's not a required feature of AP systems :)
06:20	dysfun	but once something has gone in, i expect it to not be lost
06:20	cfleming	Riak, maybe?
06:20	dysfun	riak is the best off the shelf fit, yes
06:22	dysfun	the weak point as far as i can see is merging. i could use avout to regulate that case
06:23	dysfun	and a library for working with CRDTs
06:26	cfleming	I thought I heard that Riak supported CRDTs out of the box? Or did I imagine that?
06:26	cfleming	What's the issue with merging?
06:26	iany	hi. is it possible to write a simple task scheduling library like quartz, using core.async timeout channels? just a thought.
06:27	dysfun	the only way to operate riak safely is to allow multiple versions to coexist and then merge. this is going to happen on every read after conflict so you'll want to update it, but you'll now do that many times and create race conditions
06:28	cfleming	dysfun: IIRC that's pretty common - Dynamo also resolved on reads
06:29	dysfun	yes. but zookeeper could be useful in dealing with that problem
06:29	cfleming	dysfun: Are you sure about the race conditions? That seems like a pretty big hole in riak, I'd be surprised.
06:29	dysfun	well it's not a hole in riak, is it?
06:29	dysfun	your code dealing with it may create a race condition
06:30	dysfun	distributed systems are hard, and all that
06:30	cfleming	If you can't resolve your data correctly on write conflict, then yes it is
06:30	cfleming	Is it just that that code is tricky to get right, or that riak makes it impossible to do correctly?
06:30	dysfun	the former
06:30	cfleming	Ah
06:30	cfleming	Then yes, it is :)
06:30	dysfun	so there's a simple strategy
06:31	dysfun	you could just never delete multiple versions
06:31	dysfun	but then you'll have to merge on every read request
06:31	dysfun	yay
06:31	dysfun	hope you don't have any hot data ;)
06:31	cfleming	Don't those merged versions get written back? It's been a while since I looked at this stuff.
06:32	dysfun	it has for me too. but as i recall you just write another version to replace them
06:32	cfleming	And that merging will also only happen on any elements that had write conflicts, correct?
06:32	cfleming	Right - I don't know your use case, but that doesn't sound too bad.
06:33	dysfun	well if you want your database to always return correct answers
06:34	dysfun	but you can easily see what happens when two threads try to merge the value. what if one gets hit by a GC pause and another one comes and writes another value?
06:34	dysfun	where threads can be 'processes on other machines'
06:34	cfleming	Well, your merge has to be deterministic
06:35	dysfun	of course. but the point is that you have to deal with the problem
06:35	dysfun	zookeeper might be a good option
06:35	cfleming	Right. That's why eventual consistency sucks from an app developer POV - they talked about this in the Dynamo paper, and said that the merging code was some of the most brittle and difficult to get right.
06:36	cfleming	You're essentially pushing the consistency code from the database up to the application, where everyone has to get it right for every data model.
06:37	dysfun	which is why i'm going to record everything as CRDTs
06:37	cfleming	Once you put zookeeper in there you're forcing consistency - wouldn't a database or datomic be a better option at that stage?
06:37	cfleming	(again, no idea of your use case, just asking)
06:38	dysfun	well, datomic isn't open source or even free to use in production (heh, no, i'm not running transactor-local storage in production), so it's out
06:39	dysfun	given that this is a hobbyist thing
06:39	cfleming	Interesting, I thought Riak was too - I see I was wrong
06:39	cfleming	commercial, that is
06:40	dysfun	you can do pretty well without commercial support
06:42	dysfun	and the reason i'm looking at this is that i want to do the 'all history' thing that datomic does
06:42	dysfun	postgres doesn't work terribly well for that
06:50	algernon	FWIW, Riak's CRDTs work fine, but Clojure library support for them isn't all that great.
06:51	algernon	with CRDTs you don't need to have multiple versions, either.
06:52	dysfun	algernon: thanks. i'll have a play
06:53	algernon	dysfun: https://github.com/bluemont/kria is the library I had reasonable success with, if you want to play with Riak from Clojure
06:54	algernon	(Welle is <3, but doesn't support a lot of Riak 2.0 things, including CRDTs, last I checked)
06:54	dysfun	thanks. i was using well before
06:54	dysfun	welle*
06:54	kras	Hi everyone, I have a single datastructure which I pass it to several functions, all these functions work independently. What is the best way to parallelize these functions?
06:55	dysfun	do you require to tie the results together afterwards?
06:55	dysfun	or do you just want them all to be executed?
06:56	kras	yeah, I need to collect all the results
06:56	kras	something like fork and join
06:56	dysfun	clojure.core.reducers is pretty easy for that use case
06:56	dysfun	it's a very quick win when they're truly parallelisable
06:57	justin_smith	kras: by "single datastructure" do you mean that every function uses the same immutable input data?
06:57	kras	justin_smith: yeah
06:58	kras	dysfun: thanks I will read about it
07:05	kras	dysfun: reducers seem to be for large collections where a single reducing function or filter function can be parallelized
07:06	justin_smith	kras: I thought you said all the functions took the same input, if so why can't they be run in parallel?
07:07	dysfun	kras: yes, it's just that in this case you generate a list of the same object and reduce that
07:07	justin_smith	dysfun: sounds like someone needs to invent pjuxt
07:07	dysfun	heh
07:07	dysfun	that sounds useful actually. let me go do that now
07:08	kras	yeah pjuxt is what I am looking for
07:08	justin_smith	kras: prismatic/plumbing has something that can do this (or something very much like it)
07:08	justin_smith	kras: fnk
07:09	justin_smith	https://github.com/Prismatic/plumbing
07:09	kras	given my track record of inventing functions and then realizing that they are already in core, I thought I should ask first
07:09	kras	justin_smith: let me check it out
07:09	justin_smith	kras: the first example for "graph" on that readme looks apropos
07:10	justin_smith	it can optionally be "normal", or lazy, or parallelized
07:13	kras	justin_smith: thank you
07:15	mpenet	kras: there's also tesser https://github.com/aphyr/tesser
07:16	justin_smith	mpenet: is that for parallelizing onto multiple machines?
07:16	mpenet	it supports local too
07:17	mpenet	there's an explaination of pros/cons vs reducers and transducers in the readme
07:18	justin_smith	ahh, yeah fuse looks like something similar to what a parallelized fnk would do (if you fuse on one box I guess)
07:22	dysfun	roshi looks cool https://github.com/soundcloud/roshi
07:23	dysfun	they're serving audio over that, which is mega cool
07:24	justin_smith	dysfun: why would they need something like that for their audio? It's not like the contents of any audio file on their system changes after initial upload.
07:24	dysfun	ah no, i misunderstood
07:24	dysfun	they said 'stream', they meant more like the twitter feed sort of thing
07:25	justin_smith	yeah, different kind of stream :)
07:25	justin_smith	stream is so overloaded
07:26	justin_smith	InputStream, streaming data, event streams...
07:26	justin_smith	but can you cross the same event stream twice?
07:26	dysfun	that rather depends which stream came first, the chicken stream or the egg stream
07:50	TimMc	I think those are costreams.
07:53	justin_smith	just be careful not to cross the streams
08:18	AeroNotix	https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/UtnchSngQAY anyone got any idea for this? Been stuck on it for a day, can't think why it could be
08:21	justin_smith	AeroNotix: in the gist, you don't run rm -rf target before running make, and iclient is not compiled a second time
08:21	justin_smith	I have no idea what the effect of these things might be
08:21	justin_smith	also, any chance there is a clock skew that would effect make on the centos machine?
09:18	AeroNotix	justin_smith: I did clear target.
09:18	AeroNotix	justin_smith: weirdly, it's not centos :P it's debian called centos for some reason
09:19	justin_smith	and what's up with the files being compiled twice anyway?
09:19	AeroNotix	justin_smith: unk, seems weird right?
09:19	AeroNotix	I'm totally lost with this and I really am under pressure to get this working :(
09:19	justin_smith	yeah
09:19	justin_smith	what does the makefile do?
09:20	AeroNotix	justin_smith: lein deps uberjar
09:20	justin_smith	you don't ever need to call deps btw, it's implicit in just about every task
09:20	AeroNotix	yeah I just have it because it's easier to write the makefile explicitly (non-clojure users)
09:22	AeroNotix	justin_smith: https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/f65a846781357db59ced
09:22	AeroNotix	justin_smith: calling `lein uberjar` on its own produces the same
09:22	justin_smith	I think your explicit compile step is why the files are being compiled more than once
09:22	justin_smith	because lein compile and lein uberjar do not use the same profile
09:23	justin_smith	try dropping the compile step
09:23	AeroNotix	sure
09:23	justin_smith	and it could easily happen that something compiled with the dev profile is not compatible with something compiled with prod profile
09:23	AeroNotix	hmm
09:23	justin_smith	leading to eg. two classes with the same name being compiled
09:23	AeroNotix	justin_smith: same outcome with just lein uberjar
09:23	justin_smith	weird issues like that
09:23	justin_smith	OK
09:23	AeroNotix	in fact, no
09:24	AeroNotix	it fails quicker
09:24	justin_smith	heh
09:24	AeroNotix	as in, I don't think it's trying to compile them in the same way
09:24	justin_smith	anyway, the compile step is not explicitly needed either
09:24	AeroNotix	so lein compile succeeds
09:26	AeroNotix	justin_smith: want to see the project.clj?
09:26	justin_smith	yeah
09:26	AeroNotix	https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/711906da803cbc24260a
09:27	justin_smith	AeroNotix: I find it disturbing that your uberjar-name has the same name as the regular jar, that uberjar must generate before forming the uber
09:28	justin_smith	I would not be surprised if that misbehaved
09:29	AeroNotix	hmm, ok, let me try changing that too
09:29	justin_smith	oh wait, the regular jar will have the version string
09:29	AeroNotix	ok
09:29	justin_smith	just looking for anything weird here...
09:29	AeroNotix	renaming that jar didn't do anything different
09:29	AeroNotix	it seems that uberjar is trying to compile things in the wrong order
09:29	AeroNotix	as in, client.clj before iclient.clj
09:29	justin_smith	I wonder how :aot [...] and :profiles {:uberjar {:aot :all}} interact
09:30	AeroNotix	indeed - that's what I am thinking now
09:30	AeroNotix	but the lein versions are the same
09:30	AeroNotix	on my local box, it works
09:30	AeroNotix	https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/3f7fb81fe54b9bdd56d3
09:30	AeroNotix	justin_smith: local machine^^
09:31	justin_smith	interesting
09:31	AeroNotix	justin_smith: https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/19b637932d614ff4a58d other machines
09:32	AeroNotix	for some reason it's trying to compile airos-websocket-client.client first
09:32	justin_smith	this probably isn't it, but when you have a SNAPSHOT plugin, that can cause different machines to see different versions of the deps
09:32	AeroNotix	which requires iclient.clj
09:32	justin_smith	if something was up with cider...
09:32	AeroNotix	ok sec
09:32	justin_smith	can't hurt to rule it out
09:32	AeroNotix	sure
09:33	AeroNotix	justin_smith: no dice
09:33	justin_smith	yeah, I didn't think that one was likely
09:33	AeroNotix	oke
09:33	justin_smith	any plugins defined in profiles.clj?
09:33	AeroNotix	on my local box I've commented them all out and there's none on the other box
09:33	justin_smith	~/.lein/profiles.clj that is, of course
09:34	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
09:34	justin_smith	plugins/deps
09:34	justin_smith	OK
09:34	justin_smith	~/.lein/profiles.clj that
09:34	clojurebot	Huh?
09:34	justin_smith	haha
09:43	AeroNotix	what else could be mismatching!?
09:43	AeroNotix	so confused
09:43	justin_smith	have you compared the lein deps :tree output on both machines? I mean it should be identical, but couldn't hurt to check
09:43	AeroNotix	justin_smith: checking, good idea
09:43	AeroNotix	justin_smith: yeah identical
09:43	justin_smith	I got up too early, napping. Good luck man. Sorry I couldn't be more help.
09:43	AeroNotix	justin_smith: thanks anyway
09:43	AeroNotix	lein install works on the other machine
09:43	AeroNotix	compiles in the correct order, for some reason uberjar isn't working on there.
09:45	AeroNotix	justin_smith: removing the profiles section works on the other box
09:45	AeroNotix	for some reason it was not taking into account the :aot key when doing the uberjar
10:21	fellipebrito	I'm trying to write a simple json on clojure. What I've seen so far is that clojure.data.json is a good kickstart for simple examples, however I can't use it on lein ring
10:21	AeroNotix	fellipebrito: hi, what did you try?
10:21	fellipebrito	I've added the dependence in project.clj
10:21	fellipebrito	[org.clojure/data.json "0.2.6"]
10:21	fellipebrito	and tried to lein ring and
10:21	fellipebrito	user=> (:require [clojure.data.json :as json])
10:21	fellipebrito	this is the error
10:22	fellipebrito	CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.data.json, compiling:(/tmp/form-init1871899143900987437.clj:1:1)
10:30	hyPiRion	fellipebrito: (require '[clojure.data.json :as json])
10:31	hyPiRion	unless this is in the ns form
10:31	fellipebrito	thank you!
10:31	hyPiRion	no probs
10:34	dukerutledge	Morning All
10:34	dukerutledge	quick question
10:34	dukerutledge	I'm trying to find all of the predefined protocols in clojure
10:34	dukerutledge	there does not seem to be a list anywhere
10:34	dukerutledge	would anyone mind pointing me in the right direction?
10:35	eric_normand	dukerutledge: good morning
10:35	eric_normand	I'm not sure that exists
10:36	dukerutledge	hmm, that seems like it might be a helpful bit of documentation.
10:36	eric_normand	yeah
10:36	tyson2	should be extractable from the source code, no?
10:36	eric_normand	yeah, definitely
10:36	dukerutledge	well while I have you, do you know if there is a protocol for ordering? Akin to Haskell's Ord type class?
10:36	eric_normand	I just ran `grep -R defprotocol src` and got back a nice list
10:37	dukerutledge	good idea
10:37	eric_normand	no protocol,
10:37	eric_normand	but it uses the built in Java Comparable interface
10:38	dukerutledge	so it is not possible to extend data types for use in ordered maps
10:38	eric_normand	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/comparator
10:38	eric_normand	which data types?
10:39	dukerutledge	no data type in particular, I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of these things.
10:39	eric_normand	https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/sorted-map-by
10:39	fellipebrito	hey folks, how can I create a string with quotes? I mean, of course I can use the \", but the return is a \" string, I'd like it to be only "
10:40	eric_normand	,(println "\"")
10:41	clojurebot	"\n
10:42	dukerutledge	eric_normand: do you know of any reason why a protocol was not provided for ordering to simplify the interface of these functions?
10:42	eric_normand	yes
10:43	eric_normand	it was done for compatibility with Java, and also before protocols existed
10:43	fellipebrito	@eric_normand how can I add this into a defn
10:44	fellipebrito	@eric_normand how can I add this into a def
10:44	eric_normand	fellipebrito: I'm not sure what you're asking
10:44	fellipebrito	(def s-with-quotes ("\""))
10:44	eric_normand	when a string is printed, it's going to show the escaped quote so it can be read back in
10:45	eric_normand	it does not mean the slash is in there
10:45	fellipebrito	ok
10:45	fellipebrito	thank you! eric_normand
10:45	eric_normand	,(count "\"")
10:45	clojurebot	1
10:45	eric_normand	to put an actual slash, you need to escape it, too
10:46	eric_normand	(def s "\"") is all you need
10:46	dukerutledge	eric_normand: so it is an artifact of history. Is there any reason to not push these functions towards polymorphism? Dynamism could add a complication in evaluating ordering, but that problem already exists in the current implementation.
10:48	eric_normand	dukerutledge: I'm not sure if there is or is not a good reason, besides the limitations of the JVM
10:48	eric_normand	dukerutledge: I believe there are decent workarounds
10:48	eric_normand	about making protocols for everything, there are some who want that, but compatibility with Java interfaces is really nice
10:49	eric_normand	clojurescript took the notion of protocols and ran with it much farther than JVM Clojure because cljs was written after protocols
10:49	dnolen	dukerutledge: Clojure isn't built on protocols, it's built on Java interfaces - I suspect this won't change anytime soon
10:49	dukerutledge	it seems compatability could be maintained with Java interfaces. Since clojure is not self hosted it can make exceptions like this.
10:50	dnolen	dukerutledge: as eric_normand points out, for this reason rhickey bootstrapped ClojureScript on protocols
10:51	eric_normand	if you're making a new type, you can extend Comparable
10:52	dukerutledge	So is there a disconnect in how this is handled via clojurescript?
10:52	dnolen	dukerutledge: compiling to JavaScript and generating JVM bytecode or two very different implementation details
10:52	dnolen	s/or/are
10:53	dukerutledge	ah I was under the impression that vanilla clojure should work across both compilation targets.
10:53	eric_normand	dukerutledge: Clojure / ClojureScript takes a very interesting (and I believe novel) approach to being hosted
10:54	eric_normand	it's more about having certain core features, but the host is still very much present and available
10:54	dukerutledge	are there any articles or papers that go into more depth about the varried decisions made for each of these targets and how that affects the core?
10:55	eric_normand	there's a lot written and spoken
10:55	dnolen	dukerutledge: there is a portable intersection, but Clojure can do many things that ClojureScript cannot (multithreading) and ClojureScript has a few things that are not worth breaking binary compat for (protoocols) a bear on the JVM (specify)
10:56	eric_normand	I like this talk where Rich Hickey releases cljs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVooR-dF_Ag
10:56	dukerutledge	eric_normand, dnolen: thanks for entertaining my questions.
10:57	eric_normand	this talk goes into a lot of interesting justifications for jvm decisions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPNkH-7PRTk
10:57	eric_normand	they both seem like "duh" now; clojure has come a long way
10:57	eric_normand	dukerutledge: you're welcome!
10:58	dnolen	dukerutledge: no articles or papers, lots of talks - also Clojure & ClojureScript are both fairly simplistic compilers - recursive descent mostly single pass - ClojureScript is still only a long weekend read
10:58	eric_normand	dukerutledge: someone at the react.js conference said it was "learn once, write anywhere" instead of "write once, run anywhere"
10:58	dukerutledge	dnolen: Good to know, I'll have to dig in and check it out.
11:01	eric_normand	dnolen: that reminds me of a conversation you and Will Byrd had about a spec for Clojure
11:01	eric_normand	dnolen: any plans for that?
11:01	dnolen	eric_normand: I already talked to Will about this
11:02	dnolen	doesn't seem useful or interesting to me
11:02	dnolen	it's the kind of thing academics like, that doesn't buy you much
11:02	eric_normand	I see
11:02	mdrogalis	I'm trying to come up with a way to pass a Clojure function to a Java method expecting a lambda. My idea is to find an interface, like Callable, and use proxy to instantiate it - passing a partially applied Clojure function to its constructor. Callable doesn't take any params though. Has anyone come up with a good solution for this?
11:02	dnolen	like most language specs punt on numerics
11:02	dnolen	which is like pretty much what every engineer cares about!
11:03	chouser	I'm trying clj-refactor for the first time, and cljr-thread is giving me errors. Anyone have any suggestions?
11:04	chouser	mdrogalis: doesn't the Java method expect an object of a specific type? What method is it?
11:04	mdrogalis	chouser: I don't think that's the case. Are you certain?
11:04	eric_normand	mdrogalis: doesn't IFn extend Callable?
11:04	chouser	mdrogalis: Do you have a javadoc for the Java method you're trying to call?
11:05	mdrogalis	eric_normand: IFn can't act as a lambda because Java lambda's are classes with exactly one method. IFn has > 1.
11:05	eric_normand	oh
11:05	mdrogalis	chouser: I was playing around with this guy: https://github.com/real-logic/Aeron/blob/master/aeron-samples/src/main/java/uk/co/real_logic/aeron/samples/SamplesUtil.java#L129
11:06	mdrogalis	Returns a function of 4 (untyped?) args.
11:06	dnolen	mdrogalis: why can't you just reify the interface you need and wrap the fn?
11:07	chouser	mdrogalis: I think that's returning a DataHandler
11:07	mdrogalis	dnolen: Yeah, hm. I was attempting something like that - but I didn't pick up reify.
11:07	chouser	mdrogalis: reify this: https://github.com/real-logic/Aeron/blob/master/aeron-common/src/main/java/uk/co/real_logic/aeron/common/concurrent/logbuffer/DataHandler.java
11:08	mdrogalis	Ahh. I faked myself out last night - I thought Java got a little voodoo on me and inferenced what the types ought to have been.
11:08	mdrogalis	Thanks chouser / dnolen. That'll fix my problem.
11:10	chouser	anyone know how to work around clj-refactor errors?
11:11	mdrogalis	What errors are you seeing?
11:12	chouser	clj-refactor.el:32:1:Error: Wrong number of arguments: (lambda (old new) (\` (progn (defalias (\, old) (\, new)) (put (\, old) (quote byte-obsolete-variable) (\, new))))), 3
11:13	mdrogalis	Not even sure where to start with that one.
11:14	chouser	yeah, me either. oh well.
11:21	fellipebrito	Does anyone know how to make the lein-ring start in a different port than 3000?
11:22	kungi	fellipebrito:
11:22	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
11:22	kungi	lein ring server 4000
11:22	kungi	fellipebrito: https://github.com/weavejester/lein-ring
11:22	mpenet	anyone with experience using Selmer (good or bad)?
11:23	fellipebrito	kungi thanks
11:53	nmeum	Is there a way to find out if a character is a unicode letter?
11:54	nmeum	e.g 'c', 'a' and 'ö' are unicode letters, but '1' is a digit and not a letter
11:54	{blake}	nmeum: Well, isn't it easier just to find the digits?
11:54	{blake}	nmeum: I mean, since there are only 10 of those.
12:01	raek	nmeum: perhaps using Character/getType
12:01	chronno	nmeum: You can do it via interop
12:01	raek	,(Character/getType \ö)
12:01	chronno	,(Character/isLetter \ö)
12:02	clojurebot	2
12:02	clojurebot	false
12:02	raek	,(seq "ö")
12:02	clojurebot	(\ö)
12:02	chronno	um... weird... in my repl the isLetter call returns "true"
12:03	fellipebrito	I'm looking for a way to return a json header instead plain/text using compojure, does anyone have a start point so I can follow it? Everything I found online so far is old
12:03	nmeum	chronno: yeah, thanks
12:03	raek	,Character/LOWERCASE_LETTER
12:03	clojurebot	2
12:06	fellipebrito	this is my handler right now http://pastebin.com/Q0NrWhQe
12:10	ARM9	http://clojurepastebin.appspot.com/11669001 any thoughts on this behaviour?
12:10	ARM9	also didn't know you could :key a deftype
12:10	jdludlow	Does anyone know of a decent example of testing a clojure web app with a test database and fixtures? The docs on use-fixtures are pretty sparse.
12:12	AeroNotix	jdludlow: what do you want to know?
12:16	jdludlow	Mainly I’m trying to figure out how to have tests that will (1) have some known data populated before and (2) have those tables truncated afterwards. In Rails terms it would be like using transactional fixtures, with either the built-in fixtures or something like FactoryGirl.
12:20	gfredericks	jdludlow: the word "fixtures" is misleading there
12:20	gfredericks	fixtures in clojure.test are just arbitrary functions that do things around your tests; they don't do anything specific to test data at all
12:22	jdludlow	That makes sense. So if I think of them as a generic callback I could just have my own functions that clear out my database and/or set up test data?
12:25	gfredericks	yep
12:26	gfredericks	also see test.check as an alternative/supplement to having lots of static test data
12:26	jdludlow	Cool, thank you
12:56	gfredericks	puredanger: looks like local vars might still print #<>
12:57	gfredericks	,(with-local-vars [x 12] x)
12:57	clojurebot	#<Var: --unnamed-->
12:57	gfredericks	^ like that
12:57	gfredericks	,(atom nil) ;; checking if clojurebot is on newest code
12:57	clojurebot	#<Atom@75f250ac: nil>
12:57	gfredericks	haven't verified yet, still trying to build master
13:01	gfredericks	verified
13:02	magnars	chouser: that's an elisp error. Please open an issue on the github repo.
13:12	ARM9	anyone know of a fast way to get a clojure repl, lein takes like 500 years to start anything
13:13	ARM9	and the clojure.jar isn't much faster
13:13	Frozenlock	ARM9: I personally have a repl running in the background at all times.
13:13	ARM9	that's nice
13:13	ARM9	not a solution I'm afraid
13:13	ARM9	I mean I guess hdd cache sort of helps but it's still quite slow
13:13	Frozenlock	Well, if your problem is "I don't want to wait to execute a command", yes, it's a solution.
13:14	{blake}	ARM9: SSD.
13:14	ARM9	soon blake, soon
13:14	chouser	magnars: Thanks. Looks like it's actually coming from yasnippet
13:14	ARM9	I guess I'll try to hold out until then
13:14	{blake}	ARM9: I use Cursive and it only takes a few seconds to open a REPL in it.
13:15	{blake}	(On this craptastic work machine.)
13:15	ARM9	oh the jetbrains thing
13:15	ARM9	I've heard about that, it's out?
13:15	puredanger	gfredericks: I didn't see anything in the commit to handle that so I assume you're right
13:15	ARM9	nvm early access
13:15	{blake}	It's in "early experience", but I've been using it exclusively for development for months.
13:16	ARM9	cool I'll give it a spin
13:17	gfredericks	puredanger: definitely a much rarer use case
13:24	ARM9	I guess I'll just try to avoid leiningen whenever possible
13:31	justin_smith	fellipebrito: print it to see the printed form
13:31	justin_smith	never mind, I was scrolled!
13:32	fellipebrito	justin_smith np
13:43	BigBoy0113	hey
14:09	ortuna	Is there a guide to testing core.async code with clojure.test ?
14:12	kungi	ortuna: if you find one please tell me
14:16	ortuna	@kungi I havn't found anything but I've searched. So it was leading me to believe I'm doing something wrong? Like I shouldn't test the async code directly?
14:17	justin_smith	ortuna: things I find helpful: a counter in an atom, to see how many times a loop runs, a delay or promise and a test of whether it is realized (this can effectively tell you if certain code has run or not)
14:20	seangrove	Is there a tool to visualize ns dependencies nicely? ns-dependencies is fast, but the visualization is pretty tough to use
14:21	gfredericks	I made something a while ago that emitted graphviz; it might be currently broken now though
14:22	gfredericks	I can't remember in what way I misused the different analyzer libs and how I was supposed to fix that
14:22	gfredericks	https://github.com/gfredericks/clj-usage-graph
14:22	gfredericks	but if you understand how to use tools.analyzer then I bet it'd be easy enough to fix
14:22	seangrove	gfredericks: I don't, but now is as good a time as any to learn, I suppose
14:23	gfredericks	by "easy" I mean that the analysis code is nicely separated from the visualization code
14:23	gfredericks	there were also problems with things like defrecord but hopefully it was the sort of thing that goes away when you use recent versions of the analyzer
14:24	Bronsa	gfredericks: I'll fix what needs to be fixed & open a PR
14:26	gfredericks	oh man you guys are the best
14:29	pjstadig	is anyone aware of a library that defines a tagged reader and print method for double arrays?
14:35	gfredericks	pjstadig: I suggest a pirated-themed library
14:47	shem	pjstadig: i used to frequent those libraries, but my skin just can't take it these days.
14:54	shem	sorry about that.
15:02	Bronsa	gfredericks: there you go
15:10	gfredericks	Bronsa: omg omg omg thanks
15:11	gfredericks	seangrove: I'll be trying out Bronsa's PR shortly and will make a release if it works like at all
15:19	TEttinger	pjstadig: if you don't care about extreme efficiency, you can serialize it as an eval-able string
15:20	justin_smith	TEttinger: if you don't care about extreme efficiency, you can just use a vector.
15:20	TEttinger	https://github.com/tommyettinger/Ravager/blob/master/ravager/desktop/src-common/ravager/core.clj#L22-L25
15:20	TEttinger	that's what I did here
15:21	TEttinger	I'm sure there's a better way
15:21	justin_smith	I guess that sacrifices serialization / deserialization speed, but keeps the runtime perf
15:22	TEttinger	an edn reader literal would make more sense
15:31	iwillig	is there is a for version of mapv ?
15:32	iwillig	forv
15:32	gfredericks	Bronsa: having trouble getting this to finish on a large project, but works great on simpler libraries
15:37	TEttinger	iwillig, seems like a simple enough macro to call vec on the result of for
15:37	TEttinger	but I'm half asleep still
15:39	iwillig	TEttinger: good point… i was checking to see if there was anything the standard lib
15:40	Frozenlock	iwillig: your question made me discover there is such a thing as `filterv'.
15:41	TEttinger	(doc filterv)
15:41	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns a vector of the items in coll for which (pred item) returns true. pred must be free of side-effects."
15:41	TEttinger	whaaaaat
15:41	Frozenlock	And there I thought mapv was all alone. How wrong I was...
15:41	justin_smith	,(clojure.repl/apropos #"v$")
15:41	TEttinger	(inc Frozenlock) ; I learned something new!
15:41	lazybot	⇒ 5
15:41	clojurebot	(clojure.core/filterv clojure.core/mapv clojure.core/reduce-kv)
15:41	justin_smith	apropos is great
15:46	gfredericks	seangrove: try version 0.2.0 and let me know how it breaks :)
15:51	ane	is there a shorter way to get the first truthy from a sequence instead of (first (filter identity (...))
15:52	justin_smith	ane: some identity is slightly better
15:52	justin_smith	,(some identity [nil false :a])
15:52	clojurebot	:a
15:52	justin_smith	,(some identity [nil false nil])
15:52	clojurebot	nil
15:59	ane	sweet
16:19	gfredericks	bronsa: core.async uses [org.clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm "0.1.0-beta12"]
16:19	gfredericks	any guesses if I can safely override that and force it to use the newest version?
16:19	arohner	clj-http question: When I request https://ssl.google-analytics.com/ga.js (google analytics) from chrome, I get "content-encoding: gzip" in the response. When I request from clj-http, I get back uncompressed. I think I'm setting Accept-Encoding properly. any ideas why I'm getting uncompressed?
16:22	wei_	,nil
16:22	clojurebot	nil
16:23	hiredman	https://github.com/dakrone/clj-http/blob/master/src/clj_http/client.clj#L267
16:27	arohner	hiredman: I'm setting :decompress-body false
16:29	hiredman	arohner: if you don't set any options, what does :orig-content-encoding in the response say?
16:30	arohner	:orig-content-encoding nil
16:31	arohner	appears I get the same behavior using clj-http.core/request, i.e. content-encoding header isn't set
16:31	hiredman	so google is deciding (maybe based on user agent or something?) not to serve you gzipped data
16:31	arohner	ah, user agent is an interesting idea. I'll try that
16:32	arohner	hiredman: yup. spoofing chrome properly gives me gzipped data. sigh
16:33	hiredman	those guys
16:34	arohner	https://developers.google.com/discovery/v1/performance#gzip
16:36	arohner	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7140035/http-server-not-honoring-accept-encoding-gzip-unless-user-agent-is-known-browse
16:55	borkdude	hmm... I just discovered that symbols as functions also take a default argument... (:foo nil 1)
16:55	borkdude	after 5 years of clojure...
16:55	justin_smith	and symbols even ##('foo nil 1)
16:55	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:55	Frozenlock	s/symbols/keywords :-p
16:55	Frozenlock	waaa
16:56	borkdude	ehm keywords yes
16:56	justin_smith	and symbols too!
16:56	borkdude	but symbols do too, wow
16:56	Frozenlock	I'm pretty sure justin_smith is a witch...
16:56	leandro713	hi, some gentleman can tell me why this doesn't works → (for [[v] (.split "abcde" "")] (keyword v))
16:56	amalloy	every couple months there's a mailing list thread like "why does ('+ 2 2) return 2?"
16:57	justin_smith	Frozenlock: no, just very curious, and I try lots of weird things, some of them even work
16:57	justin_smith	leandro713: ##(keyword "")
16:57	lazybot	⇒ :
16:58	borkdude	,(for [v (.split "abcde" "")] (keyword v))
16:58	clojurebot	(: :a :b :c :d ...)
16:58	justin_smith	it works, but that first keyword is super weird
16:58	borkdude	justin_smith it is the empty keyword
16:58	leandro713	thanks sirs
16:58	borkdude	justin_smith you don't know that? :P
16:58	justin_smith	haha
16:59	justin_smith	,(symbol "")
16:59	justin_smith	the empty symbol is even better :)
16:59	justin_smith	,((juxt identity count) (list (symbol "")))
16:59	clojurebot	[() 1]
17:00	justin_smith	rofl
17:00	justin_smith	,((juxt identity count) (repeat 1000 (symbol "")))
17:00	clojurebot	[( ...) 1000]
17:01	justin_smith	for some reason I find that very funny right now
17:01	borkdude	justin_smith the empty symbol is used extensively to optimize clojurescript, in case you wondered
17:02	borkdude	jk of course
17:02	justin_smith	of course
17:03	justin_smith	,(eval `(def ~(symbol "") 42))
17:03	clojurebot	#'sandbox/
17:04	justin_smith	OK, that is funny
17:04	borkdude	json in clojure:
17:04	borkdude	,(let [k (keyword " foo")] {"a" k "b" k})
17:04	clojurebot	{"a" : foo, "b" : foo}
17:04	justin_smith	that's kind of evil
17:05	borkdude	even better:
17:05	borkdude	,(let [k (keyword " \"foo\"")] {"a" k "b" k})
17:05	clojurebot	{"a" : "foo", "b" : "foo"}
17:05	Frozenlock	,(resolve (symbol ""))
17:05	clojurebot	#error{:cause "String index out of range: 0", :via [{:type java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException, :message "String index out of range: 0", :at [java.lang.String charAt "String.java" 658]}], :trace [[java.lang.String charAt "String.java" 658] [clojure.lang.Compiler maybeResolveIn "Compiler.java" 7041] [clojure.core$ns_resolve invoke "core.clj" 4202] [clojure.core$ns_resolve invoke "core.clj" 41...
17:05	Frozenlock	woops
17:05	borkdude	lol
17:06	justin_smith	Frozenlock: given the def I made, that should have worked
17:06	justin_smith	haha
17:06	Frozenlock	justin_smith: that's what I was counting on.
17:06	Frozenlock	We must open bug reports at once! :-p
17:07	borkdude	Frozenlock I think I have mentioned this once to stuartsierra or someone else in the past, but then the reply was:
17:07	borkdude	kidding.
17:07	justin_smith	,@(resolve (symbol "sandbox/"))
17:07	clojurebot	42
17:07	borkdude	the reply was: clojure doesn't prevent you from doing things wrong
17:07	Frozenlock	Why the deref?
17:08	justin_smith	Frozenlock: otherwise you just get the var
17:08	borkdude	you can fuck up things if you want
17:08	justin_smith	,(resolve (symbol "sandbox/"))
17:08	clojurebot	#'sandbox/
17:08	Frozenlock	borkdude: yeah, using empty symbols is probably the definition of doing the wrong thing...
17:08	Frozenlock	justin_smith: Ah right
17:08	justin_smith	classic case "doctor, it hurts when I do this" -- "OK, then don't do that"
17:12	justin_smith	Frozenlock: usually when you call resolve, it's to get something you can call, and that will deref automatically in the call position
17:12	justin_smith	well, a var will at least :)
17:13	borkdude	another way to write json:
17:13	borkdude	,{(symbol "a:") 1, (symbol "b:") 2}
17:13	clojurebot	{a: 1, b: 2}
17:14	justin_smith	,{(symbol "a :") 1 (symbol "b :") 2}
17:14	clojurebot	{a : 1, b : 2}
17:15	justin_smith	,(def w (symbol "{}"))
17:15	clojurebot	#'sandbox/w
17:15	justin_smith	,w
17:15	clojurebot	{}
17:15	justin_smith	,(type w)
17:15	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
17:21	Frozenlock	,(w :a)
17:21	clojurebot	nil
17:21	Frozenlock	Full circle! :-p
17:21	justin_smith	,(assoc w :a 0)
17:21	clojurebot	#error{:cause "clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Associative", :via [{:type java.lang.ClassCastException, :message "clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Associative", :at [clojure.lang.RT assoc "RT.java" 750]}], :trace [[clojure.lang.RT assoc "RT.java" 750] [clojure.core$assoc__4093 invoke "core.clj" 189] [sandbox$eval165 invoke "NO_SOURCE_FILE" -1] [clojure.lang.Com...
17:26	paulswilliamsesq	Hi all
17:26	justin_smith	hello paulswilliamsesq
17:27	paulswilliamsesq	justin_smith hi
17:29	borkdude	hello paulswilliamsesq
17:29	justin_smith	,(symbol (apply str "ba" (take (rand-int 5) (repeat "na"))))
17:29	clojurebot	banana
17:29	paulswilliamsesq	borkdude hiya
17:30	paulswilliamsesq	I was going to ask a question but remembered I had a REPL in which to play ;-) Might be able to answer it myself
17:30	borkdude	meanwhile I was trying to figure out how to reify/proxy Symbol to it prints differently
17:30	borkdude	but I could not get it to work
17:30	justin_smith	borkdude: proxy Symbol and override to-string?
17:30	justin_smith	err toString
17:31	justin_smith	or maybe you want print-method
17:31	borkdude	justin_smith yes
17:34	eric_normand	paulswilliamsesq: that's great!
17:35	paulswilliamsesq	eric_normand hehe, yeah, I forget the repl. As a recovering imperative coder, I sometimes need a reminder ;-)
17:36	nicferrier	I need to match one of these weird symbols that the xml parser makes, eg: :a:link
17:36	nicferrier	core.match is barfing because the reader barfs
17:36	nicferrier	and when I use a match with (symbol ":a:link") in it it also barfs.
17:36	nicferrier	I'm guessing core.match needs static symbols.
17:37	eric_normand	paulswilliamsesq: whenever I pair, I'm always like "don't ask me, you've got the entire system right there!"
17:37	justin_smith	,(proxy [Object] [] (toString [] "woof"))
17:37	clojurebot	#object[sandbox.proxy$java.lang.Object$ff19274a "woof"]
17:38	justin_smith	,(str (proxy [Object] [] (toString [] "woof")))
17:38	clojurebot	"woof"
17:39	paulswilliamsesq	eric_normand yeah, it's a revelation. I hear a REPL is coming to Java but i just don't see how that will work in an statically typed OO language.
17:44	iwillig	how does one use map in the thread macro ? (-> value fn fn2 (map %())) since needs the map the coll in the last position of the s-exp
17:44	iwillig	is there a good way of putting map into -> or some-> ?
17:45	gfredericks	iwillig: embed a ->>
17:45	iwillig	oh right
17:45	iwillig	of course
17:45	iwillig	thanks
17:45	gfredericks	,(-> 5 inc (range) (->> (map #(* % 2))))
17:45	clojurebot	(0 2 4 6 8 ...)
17:45	iwillig	thanks gfredericks
17:47	amalloy	paulswilliamsesq: scala already has a repl. it should be fine for java really
17:47	amalloy	and eclipse has had something repl-y for like a decade
17:47	justin_smith	there's beanshell, but beanshell is weird and old
17:48	borkdude	the JRuby repl is nice for Java too
17:48	justin_smith	there's also groovy
17:49	paulswilliamsesq	amalloyeah, but JRuby and Groovy are more dynamic.
17:52	amalloy	i didn't say anything about either of those
17:52	paulswilliamsesq	I can see REPL use for instantiating objects, and querying them etc.
17:52	paulswilliamsesq	amalloy sorry, my bad irc client use ;-)
17:53	paulswilliamsesq	But whilst I can declare and use functions in the clojure repl, declaring a class seems too much effort.
17:53	paulswilliamsesq	Saying that, I've not tried it.
17:59	gfredericks	$mail Bronsa this might constitute a bug report? https://github.com/gfredericks/tmp-bronsa
17:59	lazybot	Message saved.
18:11	nicferrier	is there a clojure (not script) dom implementation?
18:13	Bronsa	gfredericks: hah, can you see what's going wrong? https://github.com/gfredericks/clj-usage-graph/blob/master/src/com/gfredericks/clj_usage_graph/usages.clj#L21-L22
18:15	gfredericks	Bronsa: did I write this code?
18:15	Bronsa	no, I did
18:16	Bronsa	gfredericks: s/and/do and it should be fine, sorry :P
18:16	gfredericks	actually no it looks fine to me
18:16	gfredericks	oh lol
18:16	Bronsa	gfredericks: assert returns nil
18:16	gfredericks	cool thanks
18:37	justin_smith	the other day someone was asking a question about frequency detection, but I misplaced my log of it. If whoever it was is around, I just found a really good description on how to measure a single frequency bin of a fft by hand
18:40	aaelony	is there anything like http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/ for the cljs world or clj+cljs world?
18:42	justin_smith	*an fft
18:42	aaelony	justin_smith: it wasn't me but sounds interesting
18:43	justin_smith	(defn bin-level [signal probe] (apply + (map * bin probe)))
18:43	aaelony	or core.matrix perhaps?
18:43	justin_smith	where probe contains a sine wave of the frequency you want to measure, padded to the length of the signal, and signal is a sub-array of your input
18:43	justin_smith	you don't even need core.matrix for that, but sure
18:44	justin_smith	there are optimizations you can do, knowing that you are measuring multiple, related probe inputs
18:44	justin_smith	(also s/bin/signal in my function above)
18:44	justin_smith	but the basic concept is really just a sum over an element by element multiply
18:44	aaelony	very cool. wonder how performance would fare
18:45	justin_smith	this is probably the most naive way to do it possible :)
18:45	aaelony	:)
18:45	justin_smith	but it is clear, and shows exactly what the algorithm measures, which is cool
18:46	justin_smith	it's a specific way of testing the correlation of the input to the probe
18:46	aaelony	sounds interesting, but more interesting to me at a matrix level
18:46	aaelony	mmult perhaps
18:47	justin_smith	sure, in real DSP you would be doing all of this in matrix math
18:47	justin_smith	you would calculate multiple probe frequencies at once, thanks to some helpful math
18:47	aaelony	agree
18:48	justin_smith	fftw - the leading impl out there - uses ocaml at compile time to derive the best coefficients for the transform
18:48	justin_smith	the ocaml code generates the c code when you compile
18:48	justin_smith	the math going on there is way over my head
18:49	aaelony	me too, can never know enough...
18:50	justin_smith	http://www.fftw.org/doc/Generating-your-own-code.html
18:50	justin_smith	"a rather sophisticated program that generates directed acyclic graphs of FFT algorithms and performs algebraic simplifications on them"
18:50	aaelony	French!
18:51	justin_smith	oh yeah, ocaml is french
18:51	aaelony	;)
18:51	aaelony	didn't know that
18:52	justin_smith	I like how they are basically like "here's the big picture, if you want to know the details, send us an email"
18:52	turbofail	i thought the fftw authors were italian
18:52	justin_smith	they're probably like "OK, how many math PHDs do you have, we need to know how much to dumb down the answer"
18:52	aaelony	hehe
18:52	justin_smith	turbofail: they use ocaml, a cousin of haskell, to generate partial calculations for their matrix ops at compile time
18:53	justin_smith	and yeah, it looks like you are right, at least a few of the guys behind fftw are Italian
18:53	turbofail	i was aware of that partial evaluation step
18:54	turbofail	but it looks like only one of the two main authors is italian
18:55	justin_smith	aaelony: turbofail: they wacky algo they use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooley%E2%80%93Tukey_FFT_algorithm
18:56	justin_smith	haha, they really have "twiddle factors" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twiddle_factor
18:56	justin_smith	I love that that is a real technical term
18:57	aaelony	fairly apt
18:59	justin_smith	wow, they even transpose data in the matrix in order to improve the cache coherency... fascinating stuff - faster to scramble, operate, and descramble than to do the repeated jumps
19:17	aaelony	premultiplying transposes is magical
19:27	{0}grant	Did anything come about that SICP introduction/rehashing and exercise sample book in Clj?
19:28	justin_smith	{0}grant: last I saw it was still in progress
19:29	{0}grant	MAL kinda got me interested in Clojure again, generally.
19:29	justin_smith	aaelony: it was kind of a breakthrough for me to see exactly what the fft algo does - makes me think I could pick up pink and try a few variations - gabor wavlets etc.
19:32	justin_smith	I think eve is really separate
19:33	{0}grant	justin_smith: Interesting. Any idea if it's going to be FOSS too?
19:33	justin_smith	no, not at all. but cgranger is sometimes around here
19:33	justin_smith	err wait, that's not the author is it...
19:34	justin_smith	{0}grant: probably, if you aren't tied to a particular way of doing things too strongly, cursive + intellij is the most featureful clojure platform right now
19:35	gfredericks	does anybody know what ns is set to when an (ns ...) form gets eval'd?
19:35	gfredericks	I assume either clojure.core or user
19:35	Bronsa	user
19:35	justin_smith	I would guess user...
19:35	Bronsa	or the requiring namespace
19:35	justin_smith	but go with Bronsa's knowledge over my guess :)
19:35	{0}grant	justin_smith: I"m pretty invested in Emacs at this point; Generally interested in playing with alternatives ... doubt I'll really switch of it though. Any experience with Cider?
19:36	justin_smith	{0}grant: cider is my worst emacs experience ever. I'm a long time emacs user and gave up on cider, I just use inferior lisp now
19:36	Bronsa	e.g. in (ns foo (:require bar)) (ns bar), (ns foo) is evaluated with ns set to user, (ns bar) is evaluated with ns set to bar
19:36	gfredericks	Bronsa: my new bug is that I have to be careful what ns is when backticks get read :)
19:36	{0}grant	justin_smith: That's very disheartening ... I thought it tried to clone Slime's usability?
19:36	Bronsa	heh
19:37	gfredericks	I can't just slurp a whole file up through the reader at once
19:37	turbofail	justin_smith: i still use nrepl.el on a bunch of machines
19:37	Bronsa	gfredericks: true, but it looked to me that `forms` was lazy, isn't that the case?
19:38	Bronsa	ah, uhm
19:38	justin_smith	turbofail: yeah, I used to do that, but I just threw in the towel, there's nothing I really need that inferior lisp can't do
19:38	aaelony	justin_smith: I agree, those kind of breakthroughs are the best. There is nothing like strong coffee and deep thoughts ;)
19:39	Bronsa	gfredericks: just wrap the whole fn body in a (binding [ns ns] ..), I believe that should do it
19:39	turbofail	justin_smith: meh. i like my autocomplete, eldoc, and source popups
19:40	Bronsa	gfredericks: and remove the doall in forms :P
19:40	Bronsa	uh, I already bound ns.
19:41	turbofail	justin_smith: i also like being able to put the result of C-x C-e into the buffer that i'm evaluating in
19:42	justin_smith	turbofail: fair enough, at this rate I'll just be shelling out to ed from the repl, then reloading the ns after editing it
19:42	justin_smith	(that's the likely end point, that is)
19:43	turbofail	even better would be editing using slurp and clojure.string/replace
19:44	justin_smith	using ed, of course
19:48	gfredericks	Bronsa: I dn't want to rely on laziness
19:50	Bronsa	gfredericks: then read a form after analyzing+eval the previous one.. cljs uses a lazy `forms-seq` btw (or used to, at least)
19:51	gfredericks	yeah I'll do something to that effect
19:56	TEttinger2	Bronsa: which awesome clojure project are you the dev of again? I can't keep track of how many cool things go on in here :)
19:56	Bronsa	TEttinger2: a bunch of tools.* contrib libraries
19:57	TEttinger2	neat
19:57	Bronsa	namely tools.reader, tools.analyzer, tools.analyzer.jvm, tools.analyzer.js and tools.emitter.jvm
19:57	TEttinger2	I'm making a super hacky hack on lazybot to get it to reconnect on network outage
20:05	gfredericks	Bronsa: is the a/empty-env a mutable thinger that gets mutateded by calling a/analyze+eval?
20:07	Bronsa	gfredericks: no it's an immutable hashmap
20:08	gfredericks	hokay
20:09	gfredericks	Bronsa: why did you claim that you already did (binding [ns ns])?
20:10	Bronsa	gfredericks: because I'm tired and didn't realize I wrote that in my local copy earlier while trying to figure out the cause of your exception :P
20:12	Bronsa	so yeah, you need to bind ns
20:12	gfredericks	roger
20:31	TEttinger	justin_smith: my lazybot just reconnected on its own and plugins work
20:31	TEttinger	the solution is the hackiest hack possible
20:32	TEttinger2	(.exec (Runtime/getRuntime) "cmd /c start cmd /c java -jar lazybot.jar")
20:33	TEttinger2	that executes after 6 minutes of nothing being written
20:33	TEttinger2	(no pings or pongs, no messages)
20:33	TEttinger2	then it kills the current process
20:34	TEttinger2	the new process then will wait 6 minutes if it fails to connect, then do the same thing, spawning a new cmd window and a new lazybot, then killing the current one
20:35	TEttinger2	if it succeeds on a connection, it resets the timer every time it writes something, and if the timer hits 6 minutes since receiving anything or sending anything, it proceeds to spawn a new cmd, new lazybot, and kill the current one
20:54	Shayanjm	Question - isn't ((complement n) x) the same as (not (n x))?
20:55	gfredericks	I can't think of a difference
20:55	Bronsa	Shayanjm: it is
20:55	Shayanjm	so why is having complement useful?
20:55	gfredericks	you're not always calling it that way
20:55	Shayanjm	seems like another hoop to generate another function all together
20:56	Bronsa	Shayanjm: it's useful when you need to use a hof
20:56	gfredericks	it's in a family of higher order functions that are useful in certain contexts
20:56	Shayanjm	hof, Bronsa?
20:56	Bronsa	higher order function
20:56	Shayanjm	oic
20:56	gfredericks	along with partial, juxt, um
20:56	gfredericks	I'm blanking on the rest of them
20:56	Bronsa	comp
20:56	gfredericks	comp
20:57	Shayanjm	oh i understand now
20:59	jmpavon	hi, I made a small clojure prog to scrap a web. It works on 'lein run' but not on uberjar... looks like a laziness problem, how can I debug it? I put doall before every map and pmap but still doesn't work
21:00	gfredericks	jmpavon: why do you say it looks like a laziness problem?
21:00	gfredericks	it's possible, I think `lein run' tries to print the result
21:01	jmpavon	gfredericks: because it works perfect on 'lein run', I read somewhere that could mean I need to 'realize' the lazy seqs
21:01	jmpavon	gfredericks: problem is... I don't know where
21:04	gfredericks	jmpavon: you have a main function?
21:05	jmpavon	gfredericks: yes
21:05	gfredericks	try wrapping the last thing in that function with (prn ...)
21:05	gfredericks	and see if that helps
21:05	gfredericks	but the real fix is to change your style of code so that you don't have to worry about laziness
21:06	jmpavon	gfredericks: hmmm, last thing is a call to a function which actually prints (with print)
21:10	gfredericks	jmpavon: guess it wouldn't help then
21:10	gfredericks	jmpavon: so in what way doesit not work when you run the uberjar?
21:11	jmpavon	gfredericks: it doesn't print anything, but it seems to do all the queries (for the time it takes to run)
21:12	gfredericks	jmpavon: how are you running the jar?
21:13	jmpavon	gfredericks: java -jar uberjar.jar args
21:14	gfredericks	if you (println "Hallo!") at the top of main do you see that?
21:15	gfredericks	if the last thing your main does is print then there's no good reason for it being different from lein run
21:18	jmpavon	gfredericks: that's what I thought, actually, with doall before every map, should realize the lazy seqs, but still...
21:20	gfredericks	the only difference between lein run and the uberjar should be right at the end, so the internal doalls shouldn't make a difference
21:28	jmpavon	gfredericks: thx, I think I know where the problem might be...
21:32	enn	I have a library X which wraps Y. Ideally users of X should not need to require Y directly. However, there is a dynamic var foo which Y defines which I would like to be available to users of X as X/foo. Is there a way to "re-export" a symbol like this?
21:32	gfredericks	geez
21:33	gfredericks	that's a tricky one
21:33	gfredericks	you might be better off trying not to use dynamic vars; what sort of lib is it?
21:34	enn	an advice/tracing library
21:35	gfredericks	what's the dynamic var do?
21:35	amalloy	enn: why make it available as a dynamic var at all? if you need to allow access to it you can simply write a function (get-foo) and a macro (with-foo new-foo & body)
21:35	enn	It's bound to the currently-advised var, in the context of any advice code that is running
21:36	gfredericks	seangrove: okay 0.2.1 is pretty good I think
21:36	enn	amalloy: my plan b is (def get-foo [] y/foo) in x. But it would be a little nicer to just expose the var directly.
21:39	enn	(since consumers of this library should only ever need to read the value of foo, never to bind it)
22:19	mmitchell	anyone know of a good way to use a java servlet filter within a ring app?
22:48	justin_smith	TEttinger2: glad that works, it would be nice to be able to reconnect the current instance instead (rebinding the connection I guess?
22:48	justin_smith	)
23:28	cnb_	I'm trying to create a ws using jax-ws but there is no examples on how this is done, who has created a ws using jax-ws?
23:35	sejje	What's the best way to determine if you have a dependency conflict? Some googling makes me suspect that's my issue.
23:38	justin_smith	sejje: lein deps :tree
23:38	justin_smith	it will show your conflicts, and suggest how to pick explicit versions
23:39	sejje	justin_smith: how does it highlight/designate conflicts?
23:39	justin_smith	sejje: it explicitly lists all conflicts
23:40	justin_smith	sejje: clojure won't use two versions of the same dep, "deps :tree" will tell you which version lein is choosing, and show other versions that it could have picked
23:40	Oladon	I'm attempting to follow https://mmcgrana.github.io/2010/07/develop-deploy-clojure-web-applications.html, though I realize it's somewhat out of date, but I'm getting a weird error: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.RestFn.<init>(I)V... anyone have any ideas?
23:41	sejje	justin_smith: I don't see anything about conflicts. I'm using lein-git-deps for the newest (breaking) library--is that perhaps why I don't see conflicts?
23:43	justin_smith	sejje: I'm not sure, I have never used lein-git-deps
23:43	justin_smith	sejje: my standard way of using a bleeding edge lib is to check out the code, edit the version string to make it clear it is unofficial and installed locally, and run "lein install" so that I can use it as a normal dep
23:44	justin_smith	sejje: that way it follows the same rules everything else does in terms of dependency resolution
23:44	justin_smith	I have no idea what lein-git-deps does
23:44	sejje	justin_smith: alright, i'll look into that. lein-git-deps was the only/first way i could get it working, obv a new guy here. i'll look into lein install
23:45	sejje	justin_smith: much appreciated.
23:45	TEttinger	(inc justin_smith)
23:45	lazybot	⇒ 206
23:45	justin_smith	sejje: lein install is pretty simple. You don't need to edit the version string (which is in project.clj), but that can be a sanity saving measure
23:45	justin_smith	sejje: eg. if someone else tries to build your code and wonders why it doesn't work, they can see from the version string it's not canonical
23:52	Oladon	Anyone?
23:53	amalloy	Oladon: get a version of clojure that's up to date. you're trying to uise some library that expects a more modern version of clojure, on a version of clojure that's five years old
23:53	sejje	justin_smith: that was simple, glad to know about it, thanks again. now back to my lein deps :tree---i'm still not seeing any explicit "conflict" messages. I get lots of "consider using these exclusions" and at least one "possibly confusing dependencies found"
23:53	amalloy	eg, depend on 1.6.0 instead of 1.2.0-beta1
23:54	Oladon	amalloy: I'm using 1.6.0
23:54	amalloy	okay, then it's the opposite. get newer versions of your libraries
23:54	amalloy	the project.clj in that blog post is very outdated
23:54	Oladon	Nods, I figured it would be -- thanks, amalloy!
23:55	Oladon	(inc amalloy)
23:55	lazybot	⇒ 235
23:56	justin_smith	sejje: oh, sorry, "possibly confusing dependencies" and "consider using these exclusions" are how it describes conflicts
23:56	justin_smith	I forgot that it does not use the word conflict
23:57	sejje	justin_smith: haha, i have about way too many of those. i'll sort through them. in other news, grep does not seem to filter lein deps :tree output...unless these are ungodly long lines.
23:59	justin_smith	sejje: lein deps :tree 2>&1
23:59	justin_smith	(if you are using bash that is)
23:59	justin_smith	it puts some output on stderr, other on stdout, that will merge both to stdout so you can filter etc.