#clojure – 2015-01-15

2015-01-15

00:22	zanes	I wish core.async/merge could take a transducer. 😕
00:26	zanes	koreth_: I’m torn between following you down that path and just using Boot.
00:34	clojurenub	hi! does someone know how I should combine all lists under a certain length? For example, going from [(1 2 3) {4 5) {6 7 8) {9} {10} {11}] [(1 2 3) (4 5 6 7 8) (9 10 11)] if min list size was 3,
00:36	amalloy	clojurenub: you seem to have some sort of weird {}/() disorder. what are the inputs and outputs you are looking for?
00:37	clojurenub	amalloy: oh yeah i mixed those up typing up the example. the inputs were all just supposed to be lists
00:37	clojurenub	so (4 5) (6 7 8) (9) (10) (11)
00:38	clojurenub	instead of the stuff with curly braces
00:38	clojurenub	id also need to quote them if was actually using lists over vectors
00:39	mercwithamouth	k
00:39	clojurebot	No entiendo
01:54	fUD	Hello
01:54	fUD	Is there a good clojure docker for a starter?
01:57	fairuz	fUD: You just need java and lein normally
01:57	fairuz	maybe mvn too
01:57	koreth_	zanes: How does Boot address those needs? I have looked at its home page but haven't tried it out yet.
01:58	fUD	fairuz: ok, maybe I'll just try that on my mac
02:00	fairuz	fUD: plus, lein is just a bash script :)
02:05	fUD	:)
02:06	zanes	koreth_: It just feels cleaner. http://adzerk.com/blog/2014/11/clojurescript-builds-rebooted/
02:06	zanes	The paragraph beginning with "http://adzerk.com/blog/2014/11/clojurescript-builds-rebooted/“.
02:06	zanes	Whoops.
02:06	zanes	Beginning with, "The current state of the art in this area is things like chestnut…"
02:08	koreth_	Thanks. Getting late here but I will take a look at it tomorrow. From a quick glance it looks like it could be more straightforward than what I'm doing now.
02:08	zanes	koreth_: I’d love to hear about your experiences if you do give it a try!
02:32	koreth_	zanes: So much for going to bed on time. Just played with it really briefly. I like that it moves a bunch of dev environment setup out of the actual code. But its CLJS REPL setup is, at least in the demos, the same as the normal one: connect to Clojure REPL, start CLJS REPL, reload page in browser, start evaluating expressions. My setup gets rid of the need for the "reload page in browser" step, so you can treat it more like connecting via nREP
02:32	koreth_	L to a live server.
02:32	koreth_	But it's likely the same trick I used (sending the REPL URL to the browser via server push) will work in the Boot environment too. THAT, I will play with tomorrow. Thanks again for the pointer.
03:36	Empperi	hi, any ideas how to implement following logic:
03:36	Empperi	let's say I have a vector of data, eg. [3 5 7 1]
03:36	Empperi	and I have another vector of data [7 6 5 4 3 2 1]
03:36	Glenjamin	justin_smith: came back to look this morning, ended up with this to list current threads and what they're doing:
03:36	Glenjamin	(pprint (mapv (fn [[^Thread t s]] [(.getName t) (first s)]) (Thread/getAllStackTraces)))
03:37	Empperi	I want to sort the first vector in such a way that it's elements are sorted according to the second vector ordering
03:37	Empperi	eg to [7 5 3 1]
03:37	mikker	How do I convert string to an input-stream?
03:37	Empperi	,(clojure.java.io/as-stream "foo")
03:37	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: clojure.java.io/as-stream, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:37	opqdonut	Empperi: use sort-by
03:37	mikker	Empperi: I'll try!
03:38	opqdonut	Empperi: and have the key function look up the index of the value in the order vector
03:38	Empperi	mikker: nah, not like that
03:38	Empperi	but there is a function for that
03:38	opqdonut	Empperi: for added performance, invert the order vector into a map
03:38	Empperi	not that exact name though I think
03:38	Empperi	opqdonut: yeah, was thinking something like that
03:38	Empperi	was just wondering if there was something "out-of-the-box" for this job :)
03:39	opqdonut	can't think of anything
03:39	Empperi	neither can I
03:39	Empperi	guess it's sort-by then
03:41	hyPiRion	Empperi: Are there any duplicates in the longer vector?
03:42	hyPiRion	if not then
03:42	hyPiRion	,(sort-by (into {} (map-indexed vector [7 6 5 4 3 2 1])) [3 5 7 1])
03:42	clojurebot	(7 5 3 1)
03:43	Empperi	hyPiRion: no duplicates in either one
03:43	Empperi	that looks nice
03:43	Empperi	of course my example was a simplified one but that might actually work
03:45	opqdonut	hyPiRion: I think your map is the wrong way around
03:45	hyPiRion	yeah, it's opqdonut's solution in Clojure code
03:45	opqdonut	,(into {} (map-indexed vector [7 6 5 4 3 2 1]))
03:45	clojurebot	{0 7, 1 6, 2 5, 3 4, 4 3, ...}
03:45	Empperi	in truth I don't have just vectors and neither single dimensional vectors but I think I might get that solution to work anyway
03:46	Empperi	thanks guys
03:46	hyPiRion	opqdonut: Oh dang, yeah.
03:46	hyPiRion	Funny how the example still worked =/
03:46	opqdonut	yeah :)
03:46	opqdonut	,(sort-by (into {} (map-indexed vector [:a :b :c])) [:c :a :b]) -- here you can see it not working
03:46	clojurebot	(:c :a :b)
03:48	opqdonut	,(sort-by (zipmap [:a :b :c :d] (range)) [:d :a :b]) -- correct
03:48	clojurebot	(:a :b :d)
03:48	hyPiRion	(inc opqdonut)
03:48	lazybot	⇒ 2
03:51	Empperi	got it working thanks to you guys (thumbsup)
03:51	Empperi	in my more complex scenario that is
03:56	hyPiRion	nice
05:34	nicferrier	I am trying to use httpkit with-channel for async stuff... it doesn't seem to work. the docs say "The with-channel API is not compatible with the RC releases. The new one is better and much easier to understand and use." - I am using 2.1.6 - is this an rc release??
05:34	lazybot	nicferrier: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
05:35	nicferrier	I am confused.
05:37	hyPiRion	RC releases are usually postfixed with -RC
05:37	hyPiRion	or something like that
05:37	TEttinger	nicferrier: lazybot responds to any message ending in ?? or ???
05:37	lazybot	TEttinger: Yes, 100% for sure.
05:39	nicferrier	huh. well it doesnt seem to work.
05:44	mpenet	nicferrier: you could give https://github.com/mpenet/jet a try, it's a bit different (core.async based api), but I am not sure what you're looking for exactly
05:45	nicferrier	I just need an http/websockets async lib
05:45	mpenet	it has both, clients as well
05:49	nicferrier	hmmm
05:49	sveri	nicferrier: I used sente successfully with http-kit
05:50	sveri	sente supports websockets and long-polling as well
05:50	nicferrier	what's sente?
05:50	SagiCZ1	hi.. when i am using some simple callback mechanism in java, am i somehow creating new threads or using more threads from fixed threadpools? i am having hard time understanding how it works.. i always thought it could be done in one thread
05:51	sveri	nicferrier: https://github.com/ptaoussanis/sente
05:52	nicferrier	why do I need that? I should be able to use httpkit? no?
05:53	sveri	yea, you can stay with http-kit
05:53	sveri	I just like abstractions in form of libraries
05:58	nicferrier	and http-kit doesn't work :-)
06:07	clgv	SagiCZ1: Swing callbacks will only use the on UI thread for example
06:08	clgv	SagiCZ1: for anything else it depends how the caller calls your callbacks (in his own thread, in another thread or as a submission to a thread pool)
06:19	SagiCZ1	clgv: so swing callbacks which i am pretty familiar with use only one thread right? when i click on the button, the event is generated in the ui thread and action listener's method is executed on the same thread, correct?
06:21	kaiyin	Is anonymous function inducive to better performance?
06:22	clgv	SagiCZ1: exactly. that is why some applications freeze after clicks. they don't move the expensive work to other threads.
06:23	mpenet	kaiyin: not really
06:23	CookedGryphon	Hey all, is there a way to omit the tools.analyzer etc dependencies from AOT'd code? Or does macroexpansion with core async have to happen at run time?
06:24	CookedGryphon	it's doing a load of reflection etc and killing my startup time
06:24	mpenet	kaiyin: I guess #(..) doens't have to deal with arg destructuring, but it's taken care of by hotspot in most cases
06:25	SagiCZ1	cglv: i see.. so what core.async does in go blocks works similary? also only on one thread?
06:25	clgv	kaiyin: no, it is just syntactic sugar
06:26	kaiyin	good to know, because I hate it in most cases. Just makes things unnecessarily difficult to read.
06:27	justin_smith	wait, is this a question about #() or about named vs. anonymous functions?
06:27	clgv	SagiCZ1: you gotta ask someone with core.async experience ;)
06:27	clgv	kaiyin: yeah, you can just use (fn [...] ...) then
06:28	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: core.async uses a thread pool, and a given go block csn switch threads after parking
06:28	clgv	kaiyin: named arguments are usually much better documentation of what you are doing.
06:28	kaiyin	yeah.
06:29	mpenet	SagiCZ1: go blocks run on 42 * proc/2 (or something) threads.
06:29	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: i dont understand this.. what is thread parking?
06:29	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: the threads don't park, the go blocks do
06:30	justin_smith	when waiting on a channel
06:30	mpenet	SagiCZ1: but in a "smart" way, when ops on channels are "blocking" (<! >! etc), it parks the whole thing and releases the thread in use, until the expression triggers a state change. So it's fairly efficient
06:31	justin_smith	parking says "I don't need sny thread until I get a message on this channel"
06:31	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: and they use state machine to remember where they parked?
06:32	justin_smith	it's a state machine, yeah
06:32	mpenet	That said being able to specify an executor for a given go block would be nice, but apparently it's not a priority for c/core
06:32	SagiCZ1	i am not sure i understand how is thread block with >!! different then
06:32	mpenet	>!! blocks the current thread
06:32	SagiCZ1	>! does not?
06:33	mpenet	yes it doesn't
06:33	SagiCZ1	ok
06:33	mpenet	go block gets rewrited as a state machine
06:33	justin_smith	blockinh and parking are different
06:33	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: i understand they are different but until now i understood "parking" only in the context of parking my car
06:34	justin_smith	parking is effevtively registering a callback for when a channel op completes
06:35	SagiCZ1	okay
06:35	doritostains	lein repl isn't printing out the port. how do I figure out the port it's connecting to?
06:35	justin_smith	but syntax wise it doesn't look like a callback
06:35	mpenet	fyi, if you have interest in what I was mentioning, vote here http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/ASYNC-94
06:36	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: thank you.. and do you think that core async chan can substitute java's BlockingQueue for any purposes?
06:37	clgv	doritostains: it usually does
06:37	justin_smith	NlockingQueue ltd you fo things that chan does not
06:37	clgv	doritostains: it is also creating a temporary file for that
06:37	doritostains	clgv: yeah but it isn't for what ever reason :(
06:37	_1_traga	klk
06:37	clgv	doritostains: .nrepl-port
06:37	clgv	doritostains: does it fail to start?
06:38	justin_smith	argh... Blockingqueue lets you do etc. chan is intentionally more limited
06:38	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: let's me do what?
06:38	doritostains	clgv: no .nrepl-port but it starts up just fine
06:38	SagiCZ1	more things?
06:39	mpenet	SagiCZ1: https://github.com/ztellman/manifold wants to bridge the gap between all these abstraction it seems
06:40	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: yeah, chan is more restrictef
06:40	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: thank you
06:43	justin_smith	for example BlockingQueue has contains and remainingCapacity
06:43	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: yeah i think all i really need chans can do
06:45	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: core.async implements CSP (concurrent sequential processes) which is a well designed formal model for concurrency semantics
06:45	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: i guess i should read about CSP in general
06:49	justin_smith	it ism't neccesary, buy it all makes more sense if you understand that model imho
06:53	jonasen	What is your preferred way to :refer in ns forms? I do (:require [foo.bar :refer (a b c)]) but the clojure style guide at https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide#prefer-require-over-use uses square brackets instead: (:require [foo.bar :refer [a b c]])
06:55	SagiCZ1	jonasen: i use the square brackets as in your second example
06:58	jonasen	According to http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/ns ":refer takes a list of symbols ..."
06:58	sveri	nicferrier: it works for me ;-)
06:58	jonasen	sorry the link should be http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/require
06:58	nicferrier	sveri: yeah, I've got it worked now.
06:58	nicferrier	sveri: thanks!
06:58	spradnyesh	anyone using cider? i'm facing the same issue as the last comment in http://stackoverflow.com/a/25401281/4329629 w/ cider-nrepl 0.9.0-SNAPSHOT and cider 20150114.512 (works flawlessly when put inside project.clj, but not when inside ~/.lein/profiles.clj)
07:42	CookedGryphon	is there a way to make AOT compilation bake in macro expansions?
07:46	clgv	jonasen: some one on here had a good rule of thumb "use a vector if all elements are treated equally. use a list if the first element is different from the others."
07:46	clgv	jonasen: that would warrant the use of (:require ...) instead of [:require ..] as well ;)
07:52	sveri	nicferrier: nice to hear that
07:54	katratxo	clgv: that's a good rule to remember
07:54	hellofunk	what is a good lein template that has clj and cljs all setup, with cljs compile output going into the appropriate directory for the clj handlers to load it? excluding chestnut
08:05	sveri	hellofunk: boot?
08:05	justin_smith	CookedGryphon: wait, do you mean the unexpanded form? Because of course macros are expanded before compilation.
08:05	sveri	sry, its not a lein template
08:06	daniel`	hellofunk: why exclude chestnut
08:13	hellofunk	daniel` chestunut has a few bugs that i don't like
08:15	daniel`	who likes bugs
08:15	daniel`	wasnt aware of any
08:17	the-kenny	Is there a specific reason clojure-mode 4.x lost its special-casing for indenting (assoc obj \n :foo 42) (\n = newline)?
08:18	the-kenny	it used to indent the kv-pairs on new lines with 2 spaces instead of aligning it with the first arg
08:19	hellofunk	daniel`: a lot of chestnut users have this problem with the latest cider: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/853
08:19	hellofunk	daniel` but i have other issues also
08:19	CookedGryphon	justin_smith: perhaps I'm misinterpreting what's going on in my profiling... But starting up my program using core async is spending an inordinate amount of time pulling in the namespaces and making calls which do reflection in tools.analyzer, and I was under the impression that tools analyzer was only used in the macroexpansion phase
08:19	CookedGryphon	so why do I still need that dependency at runtime when I have AOT'd
08:24	the-kenny	Ok nevermind, the new indentation is expected.
08:28	CookedGryphon	also, is there any reason clojurescript's (:require-macros ...) form isn't supported in clojure?
08:28	CookedGryphon	surely it would be trivial to add, and mean that you could write one version for both
08:44	krat0sprakhar	hi all, how can i add a clojurescript repl
08:44	krat0sprakhar	on a website
08:44	krat0sprakhar	any ideas?
08:54	Kneiva	krat0sprakhar: http://himera.herokuapp.com/index.html
08:54	krat0sprakhar	Kneiva: What about http://clojurescript.net?
08:55	krat0sprakhar	i've tried adding it in my application but it seems to be not working
08:55	Kneiva	seems pretty similar =)
08:55	daniel`	i see hellofunk, i dont use cider thats probably why
08:56	nicferrier	when I'm using async io, for example in an http-kit handler, I don't seem to be able to print to the console. do libs routinely disassociate themselves from System.out?
08:56	daniel`	normally i tweak things how i like anyway, the lein template is just a start surely
08:57	daniel`	im not starting 50 new projects exactly the same every day
08:57	daniel`	that need to work perfectly from get go
08:57	hellofunk	daniel`: i get you. what editor do you use?
08:57	daniel`	vim/fireplace
08:58	daniel`	i dont take advantage of the interactive workflows as often as i perhaps should
08:59	hellofunk	i'm trying to find a good tutorial on how to write my own lein template
08:59	daniel`	i usually isolate the part im interested in to play with, rather than develop a whole project in that manner
09:02	hellofunk	is creating a lein template really as simple as doing lein create-template existing-project-skeleton ?!
09:03	hellofunk	oh i guess that's just one way
09:03	nicferrier	I looked at it. it looks easy,
09:06	daniel`	wouldnt imagine it to be much harder
09:06	daniel`	but never done it
09:25	hellofunk	why does the lein new app name project output have (:gen-class) in the ns form, somethign i've never seen in any other lein template?
09:25	hellofunk	it is usually implicit, hence why it is ommitted nearly all the time?
09:27	kaiyin	What is wrong with this: (take 4 (take 3 (repeat (repeat 5)))) ?
09:28	kaiyin	I intend to take a 4x3 array out of an infinite 2D array.
09:30	hellofunk	,(take 4 (take 3 (repeat (repeat 5))))
09:30	clojurebot	((5 5 5 5 5 ...) (5 5 5 5 5 ...) (5 5 5 5 5 ...))
09:30	krat0sprakhar	hellofunk: doesn't work for me in the REPL
09:30	krat0sprakhar	O.o
09:31	krat0sprakhar	how is the bot compiling it?
09:31	hellofunk	what happens in your repl?
09:31	hyPiRion	krat0sprakhar: it works, but those 5-lists are infinite
09:31	hyPiRion	your repl tries to print them all out
09:31	hellofunk	hyPiRion: even with take it tries to print them?
09:31	krat0sprakhar	so one more (map take n) is required?
09:31	hellofunk	oh i see, nevermind
09:32	hyPiRion	krat0sprakhar: You need to reorder the takes
09:33	krat0sprakhar	,(map #(take 4 %) (take 3 (repeat (repeat 5))))
09:33	clojurebot	((5 5 5 5) (5 5 5 5) (5 5 5 5))
09:33	hyPiRion	,(take 3 (repeat (take 4 (repeat 5)))
09:33	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
09:33	hyPiRion	,(take 3 (repeat (take 4 (repeat 5))))
09:33	clojurebot	((5 5 5 5) (5 5 5 5) (5 5 5 5))
09:33	hyPiRion	or equivalently
09:34	hyPiRion	,(repeat 3 (repeat 4 5))
09:34	clojurebot	((5 5 5 5) (5 5 5 5) (5 5 5 5))
09:34	krat0sprakhar	naice!
09:35	kaiyin	very cool.
09:35	krat0sprakhar	hyPiRion: how is the clojurebot so fast/
09:35	krat0sprakhar	?
09:36	puredanger	it's on speed
09:36	daniel`	presumably it does an implicit take on lazy seqs
09:36	krat0sprakhar	whereas, http://himera.herokuapp.com/index.html is quite slow
09:38	kaiyin	How do you use multiprocessing for reading a file and parsing? For example, (parse (slurp filename)) , I would like the slurp part take one process, and the parse part take another, so that the reading and the parsing can go on in parallel (I mean using two CPU cores).
09:39	hellofunk	kaiyin: you must have one heck of a large file to slurp to require that!
09:39	krat0sprakhar	haha.. was thinking the same..
09:39	kaiyin	hellofunk, yes I do, I some times have files larger than 50GB.
09:39	hyPiRion	krat0sprakhar: Himera is CLJS, whereas the bots here are CLJ ones. I'm not sure that's the reason, but it may be a reason
09:39	hellofunk	wow, a single text file that big?
09:39	hyPiRion	may affect performance* I meant
09:40	kaiyin	hellofunk, yes, a single file that big, but not necessary text.
09:40	kaiyin	necessarily.
09:40	hellofunk	hyPiRion: if that's the case then the cljs himera should be really fast, cuz it's all running locally and browsers today are quite speedy with that stuff
09:40	zilti	kaiyin: Then I definitely wouldn't use slurp, but the cloure.java.io namespace.
09:40	krat0sprakhar	hellofunk: it fires off text to a compiler running on the serve
09:41	krat0sprakhar	returns js
09:41	krat0sprakhar	which is then read and shown in the console
09:41	hyPiRion	kaiyin: I tend to use buffered readers and wrap them in iterator-seqs
09:41	krat0sprakhar	hellofunk: try out clojurescript.net
09:41	krat0sprakhar	that is diff
09:42	hellofunk	krat0sprakhar: that site seems pretty fast to me
09:42	krat0sprakhar	that = ?
09:42	kaiyin	zilti, hyPiRion, could you give a little more detail? I just started learning clojure a few days ago, so I don't have much experience.
09:42	krat0sprakhar	hellofunk: you mean clojurescript.net?
09:42	hellofunk	yeah
09:42	krat0sprakhar	thats because it is doing all compilation IN the browser
09:42	krat0sprakhar	unlike chimera
09:42	krat0sprakhar	*HIMERA
09:42	hellofunk	i thought it was just stated that himera was cljs
09:43	krat0sprakhar	clojurescript.net is not himera
09:43	hellofunk	are you saying himera is doing cljs on the server?!
09:43	krat0sprakhar	nope
09:43	krat0sprakhar	:D
09:43	krat0sprakhar	clojurescript.net is doing cljs on the browser
09:43	hellofunk	i know they are two different sites, by it was said earlier that himera is cljs, thus it is also on the browser
09:43	krat0sprakhar	its class on cljs
09:43	krat0sprakhar	ah ok.. my bad
09:44	krat0sprakhar	clojurescript.net is CLJS on CLJS
09:45	hellofunk	though i'm curious how it can eval cljs since i thought it requires compilation to js first, and there is no eval in cljs
09:45	zilti	kaiyin: Well, first I'd use an input-stream to read http://clojuredocs.org/clojure.java.io/input-stream and for this particular case I guess I'd work with core.async for parallelism, maybe combine it with other techniques as described on http://clojure.org/concurrent_programming, but that's probably not necessary
09:50	puredanger	kaiyin: don't use slurp for anything performance sensitive, instead stream the data as hyPiRion suggests. if you want to use multiple cpus, have one thread reading chunks and pushing tasks out for execution (several ways to do this - Java executors, future, pmap, etc with various tradeoffs). Or getting extra fancy, memory-map the file and have multiple threads via Java NIO and operate on it with multiple threads (general
09:50	puredanger	requires being able to tell record boundaries in your file, etc)
10:00	hyPiRion	kaiyin: https://www.refheap.com/96142 is a small example on how I'd build a parser in Clojure. It sort-of depends on how your parser works, of course, but if you're able to work with lazy-seqs, you don't have to read in the whole file at once etc
10:08	kaiyin	hyPiRion, cool. What do you mean "laziness is not passed around"?
10:14	hyPiRion	kaiyin: If you do something like (with-open [rdr (io/reader "/etc/passwd")] (line-seq rdr)) you will get an "IOException: Stream closed" error. That's because the with-open macro is converted to something like (let [rdr (io/reader "/etc/passwd") value ...] (close rdr) value) – except that it will handle errors as well
10:16	hyPiRion	If the file isn't completely read before the reader is closed, you'll try reading from a closed stream. (Because laziness only read values from the stream when they are "needed")
10:18	hyPiRion	And since many of the functions working over lazy-seqs (map, filter, remove, ...) also return lazy seqs, it's a common problem people new to Clojure tend to fall into
10:19	hyPiRion	Not sure if I explained that very well.
10:19	hyPiRion	Has anyone written a blogpost about this? I'd be surprised if noone haven't, because it seems to be a common issue.
10:26	myguidingstar	hi all, does ring-anti-forgery help with RESTful apis?
10:52	kaiyin	how does recur solve the lack of support for tail call optimization?
10:53	Tritlo	kaiyin: recur allows for self-recursive functions
10:53	Tritlo	kaiyin: and basically turns them into a loop
10:53	Tritlo	kaiyin: but it isn't proper tail recursion
10:53	Tritlo	kaiyin: and doesn't support mutually recursive functions
10:54	Tritlo	kaiyin: so it is a partial solution
10:54	hellofunk	architecturally, however, there is really no difference as a developer in using recur vs. true TCO, the effect is the same for your process
10:54	Tritlo	hellofunk: what about mutually recursive functions?
10:55	hellofunk	you mean non-stack-consuming functions that call each other?
10:55	Tritlo	no, stack consuming
10:55	hellofunk	but TCO and recur are about non-stack-consuming
10:55	Tritlo	isn't that the point with TCO? To turn stack consuming functions into non stack consuming?
10:56	hellofunk	Tritlo: more or less, yes
10:57	Tritlo	and recur doesn't solve that for mutually recursive functions
10:57	hellofunk	i was not aware that mutual recursion in scheme, for example, was optimized, is it?
10:57	hellofunk	if you are calling another function, that is not recursion is it?
10:57	andyf	hellofunk: The scheme spec requires implementations to optimize all tail calls
10:57	Tritlo	scheme allows for mutual recursion
10:58	andyf	Whether there is recursion involved or not
10:58	hellofunk	andyf: tail calls to any function, including another function that is mutually recursive?
10:58	Tritlo	classic example being
10:58	Tritlo	https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2ocmIKN1
10:58	andyf	You can have tail calls with no recursion, too
10:59	hellofunk	andyf: ah, i thought TCO was mainly about recursion, i.e. calling the same function from within itself. didn't realize it referred to calling any function whatsoever
10:59	Tritlo	Without TCO, this is sure to cause stack overflow for large numbers
11:00	TimMc	Also we live in a finite universe, so there;s that.
11:00	andyf	I believe main motivation is for deeply recursive functions, but scheme spec requires tco whether there is recursion or not
11:01	hellofunk	andyf: fascinating. didn't know that. i always thought the TCO vs recur debate didn't make much sense, since recursion was handled equally well in either scenario.
11:01	Tritlo	hellofunk: well, there you have it
11:01	Tritlo	hellofunk: you can kind of get around it with trampoline though
11:02	Tritlo	hellofunk: but it gets messy
11:02	hellofunk	Tritlo: i can't say it seems like a major obstsacle in algorithm desing, to be honest. i would think there are elegant alternatives to most mutually recursive fn combos
11:02	hellofunk	*design
11:03	hyPiRion	Tritlo: it's not that bad. Just prepend all tail calls with # and call trampoline on the result of a call.
11:03	hellofunk	let me think about your even/odd example
11:03	Tritlo	hellofunk: well, you can say that about most anything :P
11:03	hyPiRion	Tritlo: it's somewhat annoying though, I agree
11:04	andyf	www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-8.html#node_sec_5.11
11:04	hellofunk	hyPiRion: or Tritlo could you provide an example of what you mean with # and trampoline?
11:04	hellofunk	now you guys got me curious
11:05	Tritlo	This seems to be a good writeup
11:05	Tritlo	http://jakemccrary.com/blog/2010/12/06/trampolining-through-mutual-recursion/
11:06	hellofunk	Tritlo: exactly what i was looking for
11:06	hyPiRion	yeah, that's a good link. The Art of Clojure also discusses it somewhat
11:08	hellofunk	hyPiRion: what is ARt of Clojure?
11:08	hellofunk	you mean Joy of Clojure?
11:08	hyPiRion	hellofunk: ...yes
11:09	hyPiRion	clojurebot: art \|is\| joy
11:09	clojurebot	In Ordnung
11:11	hellofunk	reading that article makes me think trampoline was implemented specificly to address TCO.
11:12	hyPiRion	(doc trampoline) =)
11:12	clojurebot	"([f] [f & args]); trampoline can be used to convert algorithms requiring mutual recursion without stack consumption. Calls f with supplied args, if any. If f returns a fn, calls that fn with no arguments, and continues to repeat, until the return value is not a fn, then returns that non-fn value. Note that if you want to return a fn as a final value, you must wrap it in some data structure and unpack it after trampoline returns."
11:13	andyf	I believe the trampoline technique has been well known for decades, and yes, not much reason other than tail call optimization (or lack of it) to use tranpoline
11:13	hellofunk	ah, joy
11:14	hellofunk	wonder why this can't just be implemented on the JVM level, seems straightforward enough. or for that matter, seems like a clojure compiler could automatically trampoline to provide this benefit and TCO transparency
11:15	Tritlo	well, it makes debugging a lot harder,
11:15	CookedGryphon	If do-reflect is being called in my profiling.... does that mean undesirable reflection is happening in my code, or is that unavoidable and probably not a problem?
11:15	Tritlo	finding out from where the bug originates etc
11:15	Tritlo	a lot more to keep track of
11:16	andyf	It has been discussed in Clojure Google group years back, I think. I recall that keeping Clojure's efficient java interop technique and having tco everywhere would require JVM changes
11:17	zerokarmaleft	hellofunk: it's well documented, guy steele was an important advocate while he was working on fortress
11:17	nilern	there was a JVM security mechanism that relied on counting stack frames
11:18	hellofunk	interesting stuff for sure
11:18	hellofunk	seeing where the lines are drawing between language design and platform design
11:18	nilern	but that mechanism was recently removed so TCO might be coming
11:18	zerokarmaleft	yea, and hopefully lambdas push that need to closer to the forefront
11:19	zerokarmaleft	java 8 lambdas, that is
11:19	Tritlo	not even python has TCO :/
11:19	Tritlo	Guido is explicitly against it
11:19	Tritlo	though you can shoehorn it in with decorators and exceptions
11:19	nilern	btw JVM Schemes have TCO, but that requires a different calliing convention from Java
11:20	nilern	I recall Rich didn't do that for Clojure because it would complicate interop
11:22	csd_	Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for core.async?
11:23	zerokarmaleft	csd_: there's a walkthrough example in the core.async repo that teaches you the basic primitives
11:25	daniel`	csd_: there was recently a chapter of clojure for the brave and true covering core.async
11:25	daniel`	havent read it yet, so can't recommend it
11:25	hellofunk	csd_: the braveclojure.com site just added a new chapter on core.async. the rest of the site is decent and useful for beginners so the async stuff probably will be too
11:25	kaiyin	How do you get [1 2 3 4 5] out of [1 2 3 4 5 6]? Like init in haskell.
11:25	zerokarmaleft	kaiyin: butlast
11:25	kaiyin	cool
11:26	CookedGryphon	Does anyone know if require is multithread safe in clojure?
11:26	CookedGryphon	can I run multiple requires in parallel? Or is there a risk of doing the same work twice
11:27	andyf	kaiyin: Pop is more efficient way to do that, only for vectors
11:27	clgv	CookedGryphon: if you are talking about dynamic parallel require at runtime, it is not!
11:27	CookedGryphon	My intuition was that it wasn't, but I couldn't remember why I thought that
11:28	kaiyin	andyf, why is it more efficient?
11:28	clgv	CookedGryphon: there are multiple error scenarios: namespaces loaded twice, namespace loading failed because a definition in a dependency namespace was not loaded yet ...
11:28	Glenjamin	(doc butlast)
11:28	clojurebot	"([coll]); Return a seq of all but the last item in coll, in linear time"
11:28	CookedGryphon	clgv: back to plan F then...
11:28	clgv	CookedGryphon: do you definitely need that? then I might have a small tool for you
11:29	csd_	zerokarmaleft: I'm writing a Zulip bot for fun, and the API uses core.async. One of the API calls returns a channel after registering an event with Zulip. But when I try to use (<!! ch), the code hangs
11:29	andyf	kaiyin: Butlast takes linear time, pop can be done in log n time due to way vectors are implemented
11:29	CookedGryphon	I'm just doing what I can to get startup time under a second in my android app
11:29	clgv	CookedGryphon: since I ran into it myself and there was no alternative
11:29	clgv	CookedGryphon: I have written and using that library in the problematic scenario https://github.com/guv/txload
11:29	clgv	+am
11:29	zerokarmaleft	andyf: nice
11:30	CookedGryphon	and all the loading is happening in one big block, thought I could pull it in. Current strategy is using lazy var loading and separating my code into "runlevels" which are careful what they require and make sure all the essentials are loaded first
11:31	zerokarmaleft	csd_: <!! is a blocking take
11:31	CookedGryphon	clgv: multithreaded requires seems to me like a feature core might be interested in... if it can be done cleanly
11:32	andyf	kaiyin: Pop will only be faster if you already have a vector. I wouldn't recommend making a vector from a sequence just to get fast pop, unless you plan on doing many pops after creating the vector
11:32	clgv	CookedGryphon: if you limit the scope to requiring namespaces dynamically at runtime that's totally doable. the lib is a proof of concept ;)
11:32	kaiyin	andyf, cool, thanks.
11:33	clgv	CookedGryphon: loading arbitrary files is problematic
11:33	CookedGryphon	clgv: as opposed to? This is all supposed to be aot compiled already, it still needs to load namespaces
11:34	zilti	CookedGryphon: AOT'ing your whole app didn't help either?
11:34	clgv	CookedGryphon: being able to load arbitrary files in clojure was the frequent argument against transactional loading of namespaces when I brought up the topic here ;)
11:34	csd_	zerokarmaleft: (<!! (go (<! chan))) seems to be have similarily
11:34	clgv	CookedGryphon: you can just check the test cases of the lib
11:35	gfredericks	yesterday I saw an example of a macro accidentally working that I had never seen before
11:36	clgv	gfredericks: gist :)
11:36	CookedGryphon	zilti: nope
11:36	CookedGryphon	clgv: okay, I might give this a go
11:37	zilti	csd_: Yes, because then <!! blocks until the go-block has finished, which takes until the chan returns.
11:37	kaiyin	What is wrong with this implementation of comp? https://gist.github.com/kindlychung/e4b5e4fb226449bad83c
11:38	csd_	zilti: ok-- why then does the walkthrough.clj wrap the go block in <!!?
11:38	gfredericks	clgv: https://www.refheap.com/96148
11:38	SagiCZ1	kaiyin: i dont think that destructuring is correct
11:38	Bronsa	kaiyin: recur is a special form not a function, you can't apply it
11:38	zilti	csd_: I assume it is to have a simple way to show the result in the walkthrough. You can't "println" out of a go-block since it's in another thread
11:38	clgv	gfredericks: uh. shouldnt that resolve to foo.string/join ?
11:39	gfredericks	clgv: nope
11:39	gfredericks	,`string/join
11:39	clojurebot	string/join
11:39	csd_	zilti: i just want to see what the first value in the channel is. how do i do that?
11:39	hellofunk	kaiyin: this looks like a 4clojure problem. i think i solved it by reducing over the fns
11:39	clgv	ah right, because there is a namespace already
11:40	clgv	gfredericks: it would resolve correctly if you had that alis defined in `foo` right?
11:40	gfredericks	clgv: yep
11:41	zilti	csd_: Well, technically using <!. You can also use (take! port fn1) which takes a callback fn. But usually you want to avoid callbacks by using core.async, not create them
11:41	clgv	gfredericks: humm, isn't that a feature that should be added?
11:41	csd_	zilti: but <! just returns another channel
11:41	gfredericks	clgv: I'm not sure what you're referring to
11:41	andyf	clgv: What should be added?
11:42	SagiCZ1	,(let [[& f g] [:a :b :c]] [f g])
11:42	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.Exception: Unsupported binding form, only :as can follow & parameter, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
11:42	zilti	csd_: No, <! returns the first value of a channel as soon as it's available.
11:42	SagiCZ1	kaiyin: see you cant destructure like this
11:42	andyf	I think gfredericks is saying his example works, but expected it not to work ?
11:43	csd_	i dont know, maybe its the API i'm using, but i'm definitely getting a channel back
11:43	gfredericks	the code is definitely bad
11:43	gfredericks	and should be fixed
11:43	gfredericks	since it only works by accident
11:43	clgv	gfredericks: I mean it does try to resolve "string/join" if "string" and fully qualify it if "string" is an alias. and we generally want to avoid that kind of name captureing
11:43	csd_	=> #<ManyToManyChannel clojure.core.async.impl.channels.ManyToManyChannel@308e19b>
11:43	clgv	gfredericks: so we could have a warning or an error there
11:43	zerokarmaleft	csd_: sorry, got called away...the API call sends a channel over a channel?
11:43	zilti	csd_: So (type (<! channel)) gives you the ManyToManyChannel? Did you put a channel onto the channel?
11:43	zerokarmaleft	csd_: a gist or something might help us out here
11:44	gfredericks	clgv: the question is if the backtick part of the reader has any business checking if certain namespaces and vars exist, because otherwise it can't distinguish 'string/join from a fully qualified symbol
11:44	csd_	one sec
11:44	gfredericks	there might really be a namespace called string somewhere
11:44	clgv	gfredericks: but it can distinguish aliases?
11:45	clgv	,(require '[clojure.string :as str])
11:45	clojurebot	nil
11:45	clgv	,`(str/join ~'a)
11:45	clojurebot	(clojure.string/join a)
11:45	gfredericks	clgv: yeah, that's local to the current namespace
11:45	andyf	gfredericks: Yeah, what you said :) syntax quote messes with my head
11:45	gfredericks	everything backtick does is just based on the current namespace
11:45	gfredericks	and just the namespace config, not any vars in it
11:45	clgv	yeah and that would be fine to detect this error
11:46	gfredericks	how?
11:46	clojurebot	with style and grace
11:46	clgv	gfredericks: if "str" does not resolve to any alias or namespace
11:46	gfredericks	"resolving to a namespace" is a global concern
11:46	clgv	gfredericks: ah ok. so that is not checked
11:47	gfredericks	I believe not
11:47	gfredericks	and it'd be tricky if you wanted to -- users might expect their macros to compile without all the other namespaces being loaded yet
11:47	csd_	zerokarmaleft zilti: not much code to show you though https://www.refheap.com/96149
11:48	andyf	You can use a symbol like foo/bar whenever in Clojure, even if there is no namespace or alias foo
11:48	zilti	csd_: Yes, that's correct that way - (go ...) returns a channel
11:48	csd_	but how do I get the first value from the channel?
11:49	zilti	csd_: And that cannel will have one entry with the return value of the go block as soon as the go block finished
11:50	clgv	andyf: but it needs to be quoted if contained as a literal ;)
11:50	zilti	csd_: You normally just use the return values in go blocks or functions called by the go blocks since you normally don't want to block your main thread. What I normally do to get the values on the REPL is that I use Timbre to log the result of (<! chan) so I can see it. Or put it into an atom.
11:50	andyf	Sure and symbols are quoted when used in syntax quote
11:51	clgv	right
11:51	csd_	zilti: how would i use an atom to get it?
11:52	clgv	andyf: what do you think about transactional namespace loading? I have a test case demonstrating the problem over here: https://github.com/guv/txload
11:53	zilti	csd_: e.g. (go (reset! some-atom (<! chan))) and then you can always @some-atom to see the current value, or attach a watcher to the atom, but I find it handier to use a logger. But I never so far faced the problem that I needed the value on the main thread other than for debugging purposes.
11:53	andyf	I can see why some would want to improve performance of code loading by parallelizing it. Not clear to me whether there might be other gotchas besides require/use
11:53	clgv	andyf: but I am not sure if there was any desire to patch the clojure runtime such that dynamic parallel requires work.
11:55	clgv	andyf: no, I came from another scenario, where arbitrary actions need to be executed in parallel. an action is described by a symbol and parameters that are passed to the function the symbol refers to
11:55	zilti	csd_: Really what a go-block does is to deconstruct the code inside so you avoid all the callbacks. You can essentially use (<! chan) everywhere inside a go-block where you'd use a symbol (be it as a function or as an argument to a function or as a value inside a map, and so on).
11:56	csd_	zilti: im guessing the atom method is working as i set it to nil and when i check its value afterward it is {}... so i guess there's more than im not understanding, either with core.async or the api i'm using
11:56	csd_	zilti: is it not possible to println inside a go-block?
11:56	hiredman	I played with parallel code loading on our larger code base at work, a few years ago, it broke things a lot
11:56	SagiCZ1	csd_: it is
11:57	zilti	csd_: Last time I tried it failed, but it can be unpredictable I guess. core.async uses a thread pool in the background
11:58	csd_	zilti: looking at the docs here, it says "Register a queue to listen for certain event types. Returns a channel with :queue_id, :max_message_id, and :last_event_id keys."
11:58	csd_	How do I get those keys?
11:58	andyf	clgv: It might all be thread-safe already, but I would want to scrutinize defrecord, deftype, gen-class, defprotocol implementations before feeling safe about it
11:59	zilti	csd_: Which docs are you looking at?
11:59	csd_	zilti: 3rd party api docs: https://github.com/thieman/clojure-zulip/blob/master/src/clojure_zulip/core.clj
12:00	clgv	andyf: you mean the current require/use implementation? I doubt that
12:00	clgv	andyf: except there are changes in 1.7
12:01	clgv	andyf: just remove (tx/enable) from the test implementation and run the test
12:02	andyf	clgv: Not sure if we are talking about same thing here. I mean that making require/use transactional might not be enough to enable correct parallel code loading. If other clojure things like defprotocol are not thread safe, then transactional require/ use do not solve the whole problem
12:03	zilti	csd_: Hmm no idea. It's a somewhat weird docstring. I'd guess it is a channel that returns maps with those keys each?
12:03	clgv	andyf: ah ok. I am not sure that I understand where defprotocol might fail if the namespaces are loaded transactionally
12:04	CookedGryphon	Does anyone have any hints/ideas why loading ioc-macros namespace is taking 18seconds in my android app
12:04	CookedGryphon	the startup time isn't actually too bad for the rest of it
12:04	csd_	zilti: yeah idk
12:04	clgv	andyf: the hack I made assures that every namespace is loaded exactly once which holds for all transitive dependency namespaces as well
12:05	CookedGryphon	but core.async_init is taking 19 seconds, and 18 of those are spent loading ioc_macros
12:05	csd_	i guess i'll just read that chapter from Brand and True and hopefully that will give me some crucial incite
12:05	zilti	csd_: I'd really recommend playing around with core.async a bit before using a library that uses core.async
12:05	clgv	andyf: if two threads end up requiring the same namespace transitively, one is doing the work, while the other waits until its done
12:05	csd_	zilti: whys that?
12:05	andyf	Sure, but what if defprotocol is not thread safe, and two defprotocols execute simultaneously in 2 namespaces loaded in parallel?
12:06	zilti	csd_: Because as you've said you don't fully understand it yet, if I've understood you correctly
12:06	clgv	andyf: ah, you mean the java implementation backing up defprotocol, ok.
12:06	andyf	clgv: Java or Clojure part, either or both
12:07	csd_	zilti: fair enough
12:07	csd_	yes my understanding is a little above zero
12:07	clgv	andyf: the number of use cases that need this is definitely pretty limited, anyway
12:07	andyf	Clojure isn't exactly thread-safe magic pixie dust, even if lots of it is :)
12:08	zilti	csd_: You'll save a lot of time that way. Here are core.async's API docs by the way: http://clojure.github.io/core.async and I've heard good things about http://www.braveclojure.com/core-async/. And of course just ask in here in case you run into problems!
12:09	clgv	andyf: yeah, a little disappointment accompagnied that discovery ;)
12:10	brainproxy	concurrency is hard, reactive programming is hard
12:11	zilti	More different than hard, I'd say.
12:11	brainproxy	i'm going to say hard period, though like anything else, the more time you spend with it the more you're able to narrow down the areas where you run into trouble
12:11	csd_	zilti: thanks
12:12	zilti	csd_: You're welcome :)
12:22	mmg	hi, I have java class Foo with method .bar, I want to use proxy to add .baz as well. I tried (proxy [Foo] [] (bar [] …) (baz [] …)) the compiler seems ok with this but at runtime I get exception “No matching field found: baz”
12:22	mmg	can I do this with proxy or by any other means in clojure/
12:25	llasram	mmg: you can do it with gen-class or you can define an interface w/ the method you want and implement that interface in proxy etc, but
12:25	zilti	mmg: You have to define a protocol first, then use that one using extend, extend-type or extend-protocol. Or proxy.
12:25	llasram	mmg: in my experience these approaches are rarely necessary -- why do you need this extra method on the class?
12:26	mmg	I need to track the state of a stream in progress, I’m trying to expose a new method to InputFilterStream that will expose certain metrics of the underlying stream state
12:27	mmg	so I think it is needed, I can return a proxy of the InputFilterStream and also another fn to do this, but I was just trying to use proxy for all of it
12:28	mmg	I’ll try gen-class, thanks
12:28	llasram	Errrg
12:28	llasram	No no
12:28	llasram	Anything is better than gen-class :-)
12:28	zilti	mmg: This should work: https://www.refheap.com/96154 Avoid gen-class
12:28	zilti	And proxy is kinda ugly as well in my opinion
12:28	mmg	thanks zilti
12:29	mmg	yeah I mean I don’t love java interop but unfortunately there’s a whole empire built on java streams that I have to interop with :/
12:29	mmg	so it goes
12:29	zilti	mmg: yw. It should work that way, though I didn't test that code. But I'm working with extend-protocol right now anyway
12:30	zilti	mmg: I'm writing a JavaFX wrapper and extend-* seem to be awesome
12:33	clgv	a clojure.java.jdbc query with COUNT() leads to a keyword :count() - what is the idiomatic query to avoid that?
12:40	clgv	guess renamig via "AS" is the key :)
12:40	Beamed	zilti: speaking of javaFX wrappers, how -is- working with javaFX in Clojure right now? I heard someone mention they thought it was great off-hand but I don't know the details
12:42	zilti	Beamed: Well, I wouldn't call it great, but it's quite good. Having some way to "generate" Java-Lambdas from Clojure functions would make it easier to work with the API directly.
12:45	clgv	zilti: java lambdas do not implement Runnable or Callable?
12:47	zilti	clgv: Hm, I don't think so. But anyway, java lambdas are... weird.
12:47	timvisher	you can create sub-cursors in om by using keyword accessors, right?
12:47	timvisher	i'm trying to debug why my app is re-rendering everything every time, although it's ostensibly only changing 2 nodes.
12:48	timvisher	staging.nhss.twonegatives.com if you're interested in looking at it
12:48	timvisher	i'm suspicous that it has something to do with not properly initializing the component cursor
12:48	timvisher	many of them are pointed at strings, which the docs say is a no no
12:49	timvisher	current branch: https://github.com/timvisher/nhss-cljs/tree/performance-optimization
12:50	timvisher	interestingly, i implemented IShouldUpdate on one of my components, and it doesn't appear to ever get called?
12:50	clgv	zilti: do they share a common interface?
12:50	zilti	clgv: Java's lambas basically depend on specially marked functional interfaces, so a method that accepts a lambda also always accepts an anonymous class implementing the specific functional interface
12:51	clgv	zilti: ok
12:51	timvisher	if IRender/State is called, the DOM is updated with that component, right? or is IRender called and then the diff happens?
12:51	zilti	clgv: This for example, when a method wants something of the type of this interface, it's possible to handle a lambda: http://download.java.net/jdk8/jfxdocs/javafx/event/EventHandler.html
12:52	kaiyin	why is it not ok to use recur here?
12:52	kaiyin	https://gist.github.com/kindlychung/1b10842c22236427ac9c
12:53	zilti	kaiyin: recur always has to be the last statement in a block to get executed. In your case, the return type of the recur is still needed inside the recur-calling block.
12:53	kaiyin	ok
12:54	zilti	kaiyin: I rarely use lazy-seq but I'm pretty sure you don't need recur or other tail-call-optimization inside a lazy-seq.
12:54	timvisher	the app is spending ~40% of its time in React `batchedUpdate`
12:54	kaiyin	zilti, good to know.
12:59	timvisher	if a parent component is dirty, are all children forced to updated no matter what?
12:59	timvisher	that wouldn't seem to make any sense
12:59	Glenjamin	timvisher: by default, yes
13:00	Glenjamin	but they can optimise this by implementing shouldComponentUpdate
13:00	timvisher	Glenjamin: i thought that was the whole point of using sub-compenents and reference equality?
13:00	Glenjamin	there's a React.Perf thing which can tell you which components are wasting time recalculating updates to apply no changes
13:01	Glenjamin	timvisher: React can't do that out of the box, because JS is full of mutability - most cljs wrappers enable this though
13:01	timvisher	that you can dirty a parent component without actually forcing all sub-components to re-render, because their sub-cursor hasn't changed
13:01	Glenjamin	oh, i see - you're in Om
13:01	timvisher	aye :)
13:01	Glenjamin	ah, this is a quirk to do with cursors, which i think reference cursors are better at
13:02	Glenjamin	iirc
13:02	timvisher	Glenjamin: unable to parse :)
13:02	timvisher	reference cursors?
13:02	Glenjamin	yeah, look up "reference cursors" in the Om docs
13:02	Glenjamin	they're fairly new
13:06	clgv	zilti: if you'd use a wrapper approach as in seesaw you could wraper clojure functions into the appropriate functional interfaces
13:06	clgv	wrap*
13:07	zilti	clgv: I have to take a closer look at seesaw. What I'm doing now is essentially a lot of extend-interface. Which works like a charm.
13:11	timvisher	does implementing IShouldUpdate in om not work as advertised? are local implementations ignore in some way?
13:15	timvisher	or is it that i'm responsible for only calling transact! on the cursor that has actually been updated? again, i thought that one of the big deals of React/Om was that i could freely update the state and it would use the persistent data structures to decide what actually needed to be affected
13:33	kaiyin	what's wrong with this: (fn [& xs x] x)
13:33	kaiyin	,(fn [& xs x] x)
13:33	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unexpected parameter, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:33	puredanger	any of the Venanti / Standard Treasury team on here?
13:36	fairuz	kaiyin: shouldn't & xs be the last argument?
13:37	justin_smith	kaiyin: & can only be followed by one argument
13:37	kaiyin	ok
13:37	fairuz	,(fn [x & xs] x)
13:37	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval49$fn__50 sandbox$eval49$fn__50@4f6047f9>
13:37	kaiyin	but I am trying to implement last
13:38	justin_smith	kaiyin: that can't be done witj destructuring
13:45	ntietz	hey, all. could anyone give me a recommendation for a good Clojure overview or book? a lot of them are geared at introducing people to FP and all that -- my background is strong in both C++ and Scala, with a smattering of Haskell
13:46	AimHere	Joy of Clojure tends to be considered the more 'advanced' clojure book
13:46	ntietz	okay, I'll take a look at that, thanks
13:54	krat0sprakhar	how can I add the Access-Control-Allow-Origin: * to a ring app
13:54	krat0sprakhar	?
13:54	scottj	ntietz: clojurebook.com seems like it would be a good fit for covering the language and ecosystem
13:55	fairuz	krat0sprakhar: You can add a middleware that modifies the header
13:55	Frozenlock	krat0sprakhar: depending on your setup, this could be sufficient https://www.refheap.com/96164
13:57	ntietz	scottj: thanks! I'll take a look at that, too
13:57	krat0sprakhar	thanks a lot Frozenlock
13:58	krat0sprakhar	one quick question, how do I call the handler through this function?
13:58	ggherdov	Hi. I want to use the first element of a vector as a key to access a value in a map. Trying this:
13:58	ggherdov	(get {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} (first ["a" "b" "c"]))
13:58	ggherdov	but the REPL says "nil". I expected "1". What's my mistake?
13:59	zilti	(doc get)
13:59	clojurebot	"([map key] [map key not-found]); Returns the value mapped to key, not-found or nil if key not present."
13:59	zilti	,(get {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} (first [:a :b :c]))
13:59	clojurebot	1
13:59	krat0sprakhar	zilti: you need to convert the string to symbol
14:00	zilti	ggherdov: A String isn't a keyword
14:00	ggherdov	uh. Thanks zilti. Checking my book again then. krat0sprakhar ok
14:00	Frozenlock	but a string can be a key ;-)
14:00	krat0sprakhar	zilti: right, i was assuming his vector has string only
14:00	krat0sprakhar	*strings
14:00	ggherdov	I see.
14:00	Frozenlock	krat0sprakhar: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/cookbooks/middleware.html
14:01	krat0sprakhar	thanks Frozenlock
14:02	zilti	Are defmethods having an effect across all namespaces?
14:11	foofoobar	What is the go-to framework for doing web development with clojure? compojure?
14:14	fairuz	foofoobar: usually a stack of these libs
14:14	fairuz	compojure + liberator + component
14:14	fairuz	and some others
14:15	chouser	zilti: a defmulti is defined in a particular namespace. Each defmethod applies to a particular namespaces defmulti, but has a global effect for that defmulti.
14:15	ordnungswidrig	I recently advocate bidi instead of compojure as it has reverse routing aka url generation
14:15	zilti	chouser: Ok! Thanks!
14:15	chouser	zilti: np
14:15	zilti	ordnungswidrig: I started using it as well. It's especially nice that I can also do client-side routing with it
14:16	ordnungswidrig	that's also a plus, yes.
14:19	foofoobar	fairuz: thanks
14:20	Gazaf	link to bidi please? can't seem to find it
14:20	zilti	Gazaf: https://github.com/juxt/bidi
14:21	Gazaf	thank you
14:22	fairuz	I personally use compojure api
14:22	fairuz	a swaggered version of compojure
14:23	foofoobar	fairuz: do you have a good starting guide for me? I did a lot of web dev with rails, node.js, go. I’m total new to clojure and would love to see some good introduction.
14:24	foofoobar	For learning-by-doing I’m trying to build a simple web app (user auth, user dashboard (maybe with react.js), some static pages)
14:25	fairuz	I think it's good enough
14:25	fairuz	You add more and more libraries as you progress
14:25	foofoobar	fairuz: So where to start? With compojure?
14:26	foofoobar	The first thing I was missing in an introduction I found was a good templating thing. There was hiccup, but I’m used to external template files which are loaded and processed.
14:27	wkf	foofoobar: have you tried enlive
14:27	wkf	?
14:28	zilti	foofoobar: There's also Selmer
14:29	fairuz	foofoobar: As you can see here, everyone has its own preference :)
14:29	fairuz	http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/
14:29	krat0sprakhar	one question - i'm trying to add CORS to this server
14:29	krat0sprakhar	https://github.com/fogus/himera/blob/master/src/clj/himera/server/service.clj#L17-L21
14:29	fairuz	this can help you cherry-picking some libraries
14:29	krat0sprakhar	any idea whats wrong?
14:29	wkf	all useful, for different situations/preferences
14:29	krat0sprakhar	i just added "Allow-Access-Control-Origin" "*"
14:29	krat0sprakhar	on line 20
14:29	Gazaf	foofoobar: Luminus for a more structured approach http://www.luminusweb.net
14:30	krat0sprakhar	my requests are still failing from cross origin
14:30	fairuz	krat0sprakhar: What is the error on client side?
14:30	fairuz	Does your server handle the preflight request?
14:30	fairuz	aka the OPTION request
14:30	krat0sprakhar	the usual No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource.
14:31	krat0sprakhar	although when i try, doing the same from the same origin
14:31	krat0sprakhar	the header is coming correctly
14:31	krat0sprakhar	oh so i need to specify that route separately?
14:31	fairuz	You need to response to the OPTIONS request separately yes
14:31	krat0sprakhar	oh
14:31	fairuz	simplest is just to say all is ok
14:32	krat0sprakhar	oh just 200 then?
14:32	foofoobar	Thanks, I’m checking the links you send me
14:32	fairuz	in cors, the browser will actually send 2 requests
14:32	krat0sprakhar	right..
14:32	fairuz	one OPTIONS (preflight) then the actual request
14:32	fairuz	the latter will only be sent if the former returns ok
14:33	krat0sprakhar	i've never actually done that in Flask (python) hence didn't that one needs to define /options as well
14:33	krat0sprakhar	probably the framework was doing that for me and i didn't notice :D
14:33	fairuz	probably :)
14:33	krat0sprakhar	ok, so i'll add the route and see
14:34	fairuz	and most probably you will need more headers
14:34	fairuz	that's why I asked what was the error in the browser
14:38	krat0sprakhar	fairuz: weird, i'm getting an exception: OPTIONS is not defined
14:39	krat0sprakhar	although compojure documentation does define it
14:41	fairuz	check your imports
15:02	kaiyin	how do you get rid of the outer parenthesis/brackets/braces of the current expression?
15:02	kaiyin	for example trun [2 3] into 2 3
15:04	xonev	kaiyin: what for? to pass as arguments to a function? to print?
15:04	justin_smith	kaiyin: there is no such thing, but there is still a way to do what you are actually trying to do
15:05	justin_smith	,(apply + 1 2 3 [4 5])
15:05	justin_smith	for example
15:05	clojurebot	15
15:05	xonev	yeah, it sounds like you're wanting to use apply…
15:07	kaiyin	xonev, justin_smith I am looking for a keyboard shortcut to edit my code, :-D
15:08	justin_smith	kaiyin: ahh, that will depend on your editor, of course
15:08	justin_smith	but paredit has "barf" for that
15:08	kaiyin	yeah, I am using intellij with cursive.
15:08	kaiyin	ok, that's barf.
15:08	kaiyin	I see.
15:08	justin_smith	unappealing name, I know
15:09	kaiyin	justin_smith, barf seems to just move things out the brackets?
15:10	kaiyin	In cursive, it turns [2 3] into [2] 3, and if you barf again, it becomes [] 2 3
15:11	xonev	kaiyin: yes, that's what it does in paredit, as well, i believe.
15:11	xonev	It doesn't completely remove the brackets
15:11	zilti	kaiyin: What you're looking for is paredit's splice
15:11	scottj	kaiyin: paredit-splice-sexp
15:12	kaiyin	ok, i see.
15:12	kaiyin	thanks
15:12	justin_smith	I would usually just barf out all the contents then remove the empty braces, but splice is more direct I guess, yeah
15:12	zilti	There are really weird things in paredit ^^ And paxedit goes even further
15:13	kaiyin	those names are really weird. :-)
15:13	zilti	Yeah, plus the names
15:32	kaiyin	What is wrong with this? https://gist.github.com/kindlychung/0749c3380eff319ed4d4
15:33	AimHere	Try :else
15:33	gfredericks	kaiyin: clojure functions are not infix
15:33	AimHere	Also what he said
15:33	gfredericks	,(3 > 10)
15:33	imanc	can any explain how the anon functions get %1 and %2 params passed to them in this code fragment: http://pastie.org/9834054
15:33	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
15:33	gfredericks	,(< 3 10)
15:33	clojurebot	true
15:33	gfredericks	,(> 3 10) ; I guess is the equivalent one
15:33	clojurebot	false
15:34	gfredericks	imanc: nothing is calling those functions so I'm not sure what you're asking
15:34	imanc	gfredericks: so they're not being called at that stage? I'm just trying to understand what the code is doing.
15:35	imanc	grr
15:35	gfredericks	imanc: the code creates a local called `cmd` that is a function
15:35	gfredericks	,(let [cmd #(+ %1 %1 %2)] (cmd 3 4))
15:35	clojurebot	10
15:35	mavbozo	,(#(= %1 %2) 'a 'b)
15:35	clojurebot	false
15:35	gfredericks	^ you can call such a thing like so
15:35	imanc	damn, that's so obvious now
15:36	imanc	so it's binding one of those functions to the cmd based on whether coll is a map
15:36	gfredericks	yep
15:37	kaiyin	Oh my. Old habits die hard...
15:37	gfredericks	else: => :else is also important
15:38	gfredericks	:else is just a generic keyword in this usage, you could change it to :or-whatever and it would work the same way
15:38	gfredericks	:else is used idiomatically for readability
15:38	kaiyin	ok.
15:38	kaiyin	else: is from python, :P
15:39	imanc	ha ha
15:39	gfredericks	I wish cond took a default expr like case does
15:39	gfredericks	just for consistency
15:39	gfredericks	less explaining to do, not much lost
15:40	justin_smith	gfredericks: yeah, and fully unambiguous based on arg count, bad impl choice imho
15:40	imanc	I thought cond did support a default expression ..
15:40	justin_smith	one of the few bad choices in clj
15:40	gfredericks	justin_smith: wait can't we change it backwards compatibly?
15:40	gfredericks	,(cond 1 2 3 4)
15:40	clojurebot	2
15:40	gfredericks	erm
15:40	gfredericks	,(cond 1 2 3 4 5)
15:41	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: cond requires an even number of forms, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
15:41	gfredericks	yeah
15:41	gfredericks	could totally just add that
15:41	justin_smith	gfredericks: the other version wouldn't compile, so there would be no compatibility issue unless someone's code relied on some cond form failing to compile which would be fucked up...
15:41	gfredericks	justin_smith: in that sense every change is breaking though
15:41	justin_smith	indeed
15:41	justin_smith	yeah, I would call it effectively non-breaking :)
15:42	justin_smith	gfredericks: just the compulsion to look for the weird edge case, ya know
15:43	gfredericks	I don't see a ticket for this
15:44	gfredericks	I'll just make one what could it hurt
15:44	gfredericks	wait
15:44	gfredericks	,(case 3 4 5)
15:44	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause: 3>
15:44	gfredericks	,(cond false 3)
15:44	clojurebot	nil
15:45	gfredericks	is that difference potentially an issue at all, or is it totally orthogonal?
15:45	justin_smith	,(case 3 3 true false)
15:45	clojurebot	true
15:45	TimMc	gfredericks: http://xkcd.com/1172/
15:45	TimMc	("Workflow")
15:46	justin_smith	,(case case case case)
15:46	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/case, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:46	justin_smith	haha
15:46	TimMc	,(cond)
15:46	clojurebot	nil
15:46	gfredericks	,(cond cond cond cond cond)
15:46	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/cond, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:46	TimMc	\o/
15:46	justin_smith	,(case #'case #'case #'case)
15:46	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause: #'clojure.core/case>
15:46	gfredericks	anyhow does this still sound worth proposing?
15:48	justin_smith	gfredericks: I think so, yes
15:48	amalloy	i don't see any advantage to supporting a default case for cond. it makes the API less regular
15:48	amalloy	"args should be a sequence of test/expr pairs" is much nicer than "args should be a sequence of test/expr pairs, plus if you feel like it a default case at the end"
15:49	amalloy	and uses of it won't read well: (cond a b c d e f g h i), even with newlines in it, might make you wonder what that i is doing there: paired with h, or a default?
15:50	TimMc	amalloy: Is this something you dislike about case as well?
15:50	amalloy	TimMc: no, case has no choice
15:50	mavbozo	,(doc cond)
15:50	clojurebot	"([& clauses]); Takes a set of test/expr pairs. It evaluates each test one at a time. If a test returns logical true, cond evaluates and returns the value of the corresponding expr and doesn't evaluate any of the other tests or exprs. (cond) returns nil."
15:51	amalloy	similarly condp has no choice
15:51	TimMc	Hah, it actually documents the nullary case.
15:51	mavbozo	why there's no mention of :else ?
15:51	justin_smith	mavbozo: because :else is just a convention
15:51	justin_smith	,(cond 1 nil true :yolo :else)
15:51	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: cond requires an even number of forms, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
15:51	justin_smith	blerg
15:51	TimMc	You could instead use :suddenly or any other truthy value.
15:52	amalloy	TimMc: because case and condp aren't testing the truthiness of the test exprs themselves, there's no value you could use as a conventional default like :else
15:52	amalloy	it's all relative to whatever expression you're comparing to
15:52	justin_smith	,(cond nil true false :whatever :yolo :else)
15:52	clojurebot	:else
15:52	TimMc	,(cond (= 2 :cats) :wow, :nil :oh-i-see)
15:52	clojurebot	:oh-i-see
15:52	TimMc	amalloy: Fair point. :-)
15:53	gfredericks	amalloy: I think it will read as well as any other implicit-pairs syntax
15:53	gfredericks	in particular as well as case does
15:53	mavbozo	,(cond (= 2 :cats) :wow, :yolo :oh-i-see)
15:53	clojurebot	:oh-i-see
15:54	mavbozo	is there any conditional expression that throws exception if no test match?
15:54	mavbozo	,(doc condp)
15:55	clojurebot	"([pred expr & clauses]); Takes a binary predicate, an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-expr result-expr test-expr :>> result-fn Note :>> is an ordinary keyword. For each clause, (pred test-expr expr) is evaluated. If it returns logical true, the clause is a match. If a binary clause matches, the result-expr is returned, if a ternary clause matches, i...
15:55	amalloy	case
15:55	mavbozo	,(doc case)
15:55	clojurebot	"([e & clauses]); Takes an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-constant result-expr (test-constant1 ... test-constantN) result-expr The test-constants are not evaluated. They must be compile-time literals, and need not be quoted. If the expression is equal to a test-constant, the corresponding result-expr is returned. A single default expression can foll...
15:55	amalloy	&(case 1)
15:55	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause: 1
16:00	TimMc	sadness
16:00	{blake}	So...I've got an app that works fine locally but then gives me a "Rounding necessary" error in deployment. (Same code, same data.)
16:01	{blake}	TimMc: What's up?
16:02	TimMc	{blake}: amalloy's (case 1) demo
16:03	gfredericks	TimMc: you want a compile error?
16:03	{blake}	amalloy: Was ist?
16:04	TimMc	gfredericks: It should yield 1.
16:04	amalloy	TimMc: what???? no it shouldn't
16:04	TimMc	Four question marks, I must be super wrong.
16:04	amalloy	you could argue that (case 1 1) should, but certainly not (case 1)
16:05	TimMc	Oh! Whoops.
16:05	TimMc	Forgot the input. :-P
16:06	TimMc	Yes, compile error would be nice there.
16:07	amalloy	TimMc: for (case 1)? i suppose so
16:09	TimMc	For my next trick, I'll argue that (case 2) should also yield 1.
16:11	amalloy	nono, 1 is truthy. you mean 0
16:12	TimMc	Nonsense, for any compile error it should count the arguments.
16:12	TimMc	You're thinking of (case).
16:13	amalloy	hah, i love it. (defn foo (+ 1 2 3)) ;; succeeds, yields 2
16:17	TimMc	Reminds me of that compiler that will agressively remove chunks of your code until compilation succeeds. Was it for JS?
16:21	amalloy	TimMc: fuckitjs
16:23	TimMc	yeah!
16:24	TimMc	I knew there was profanity in the naem but couldn't come up with the right combination.
16:25	amalloy	i have this vague notion that there's a ruby port, but i can't find it
16:25	amalloy	oh, https://github.com/programble/fuckit.rb
16:26	hlship	Anyone familiar with Leiningen deployments handy? I'm having trouble deploying to a Nexus repository.
16:26	amalloy	interestingly doesn't show up at all under a google search for "fuckitrb"
16:27	amalloy	~anyone
16:27	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
16:27	amalloy	hiredman: speaking of ~anyone, is there any way we can get him to stop responding occasionally with "anyone is anybody"? it makes the factoid totally useless
16:27	hlship	It's an https://... URL, but I get an error "No connector available ... of type default ..."
16:28	hlship	And it lists WagonRepositoryConnectorFactory, which I believe should be able to do an HTTPs upload
16:30	hiredman	amalloy: I'll but it on my trello board before "make a ladder" but after "lambda lifting letfns"
16:30	hiredman	put
16:31	hlship	Interestingly, Gradle can deploy to this repository, and both Gradle and Lein are just wrappers around the Maven libs for doing all this
16:31	ghadishayban	,(into (map inc) [1 2 3 4 5])
16:31	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$map$fn__4507 cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentCollection>
16:31	ghadishayban	,(into [] (map inc) [1 2 3 4 5])
16:31	clojurebot	[2 3 4 5 6]
16:34	TimMc	oh right, transducers
16:34	hyPiRion	hlship: is this with 2.5.1 or 2.5.0 or something else?
16:34	hlship	2.5.0 on OS X
16:34	hlship	have to run shortly
16:34	hlship	let me try an upgrade
16:36	hlship	Same behavior
16:38	hlship	https://gist.github.com/hlship/5dc0e03ee42652a48537
16:38	hlship	ttyl
16:40	hyPiRion	bleh, the aether/proxy/download issues are piling up
16:41	nicferrier	working out data structures. lah dee dah.
16:56	djames	Is there already a function that I've overlooked that iterates until stable (I wrote this: https://gist.github.com/xpe/46128da5accb0acdf30d)
16:58	gfredericks	(->> (iterate f x) (partition 2 1) (filter (fn [[x1 x2]] (= x1 x2))) (ffirst))
16:58	gfredericks	^ another way to do it
16:58	kaiyin	loop can be implemented with reduce, right?
16:59	djames	gfredericks: that's a fun way to do it
16:59	gfredericks	yeah
16:59	amalloy	gfredericks: (partial apply =)
16:59	djames	kaiyin: you can't add a terminating condition to reduce. it cranks until its input collection is exhausted.
16:59	gfredericks	amalloy: bleck I hate partial apply
17:00	amalloy	really? why?
17:00	amalloy	djames: ##(doc reduced)
17:00	lazybot	⇒ "([x]); Wraps x in a way such that a reduce will terminate with the value x"
17:00	gfredericks	it's so long
17:00	djames	kaiyin: some examples of loop can be better represent as reduce
17:00	gfredericks	amalloy: I also hate it more if it's going to be applied to a tuple rather than a homogeneous variable length collection
17:01	amalloy	gfredericks: (def ap (partial partial apply))
17:01	amalloy	(ap =)
17:01	djames	amalloy: good point!
17:01	gfredericks	yeah I've definitely thought about aliasing it before
17:01	djames	amalloy, kaiyin : I'd still challenge someone to write repeat-until-stable with reduce :)
17:01	gfredericks	I should get plumbing to add it
17:02	gfredericks	(defn repeat-until-stable [f x] (reduce (fn [x1 x2] (if (= x1 x2) (reduced x1) x2)) (iterate f x)))
17:02	djames	kaiyin: I was incorrect before, you can use reduced to terminate a reduce early
17:03	amalloy	djames: now, reduce is still less general than loop. but not because you can't abort early
17:04	djames	gfredericks: excellent. you win a trip to the Bahamas
17:07	hellofunk	what is responsible in emacs for adding those red squiggly underlines when things go long, usually for me under a ns form?
17:07	hellofunk	*wrong
17:09	gfredericks	I only see that in magit commit msgs
17:09	gfredericks	must be a shared functionality
17:09	hellofunk	i thought maybe it was a linter or something, but i don't have the clojure linting installed
17:15	dagda1	can I pass arguments that are not destructured and arguments that are, e.g. [coll [x xs]]
17:15	djames	dagda1: yes
17:15	djames	oh, pass?
17:16	djames	yes
17:19	nicferrier	can I put a buffer on a core.async queue?
17:19	gfredericks	destructuring is just something the function does to its arguments, it's not visible or relevant to the caller
17:19	nicferrier	or channel.
17:20	nicferrier	ooo. yes.
17:21	justin_smith	nicferrier: hell you can put a chanel on a channel if you want - or do you mean add buffering...
17:21	{blake}	Hmmm. If I have a ns A with a (def x 1) and an ns B with a (def x 2), I cannot then "use" both A & B because of the conflict, yes?
17:21	nicferrier	justin_smith: I want to buffer the channel so it doesn't block immediately.
17:21	amalloy	i think you get a warning, not an error
17:21	justin_smith	{blake}: right, another reason not to er... "use" use
17:22	amalloy	justin_smith: the other day i was looking through the 4clojure source code, and i was like "wait a minute, why are there all these :use calls, i thought justin_smith fixed that"
17:22	amalloy	sadly, only lazybot
17:23	{blake}	justin_smith: Damn rookies!
17:23	justin_smith	nicferrier: I trust you found the optional arg to chan
17:23	nicferrier	justin_smith: I did.
17:24	nicferrier	I'm doing something very messy. I know I need core.async... but fitting it in is very hard.
17:24	{blake}	amalloy:Seems to have broken compilation for me.
17:24	nicferrier	I'm trying to use it to bridge between 2 httpkit async stacks.
17:24	nicferrier	and it's confusing.
17:25	kenrestivo	o_0
17:25	justin_smith	nicferrier: ztellman has some enlightening perspective on buffering queues and backpressure, I forget where though
17:28	\|blake\|	So, if I want to route my users to the log in screen if they're not logged in (Compojure), this is a job for...middleware!
17:29	tcrayford____	justin_smith: it's on the goggle grup
17:33	justin_smith	tcrayford____: in my ranking of typos I have seen today (ordered by amusement), "goggle grup" is second only to "Robert Cop, law enforcement of the furniture"
17:33	tcrayford____	haha
17:34	amalloy	justin_smith: http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/216ov7/utheoman333_misspells_a_word_so_horribly_that_it/
17:35	tcrayford____	justin_smith: my favorite mispellings: "Athur write this" : https://twitter.com/Apriim/status/549989239426121730, and "rubby": https://twitter.com/jamesgolick/status/106847523670462465
17:35	\|blake\|	That's so excgarated.
17:36	amalloy	\|blake\|: what is the deal with the punctuation around your name? it has changed like three times since i "met" you
17:36	\|blake\|	amalloy: I fail at IRC.
17:37	\|blake\|	amalloy: Is the short story. I've registered one of the punctuated versions. {Blake}, I think. But I can't always seem to authenticate it, so my fallbacks are...weird.
17:38	justin_smith	\|blake\|: do you know about /msg nickserv ghost ?
17:38	\|blake\|	Like, I tried to authenticate {Blake} just now and it said there already was one.
17:39	\|blake\|	justin_smith: I know muffins.
17:39	justin_smith	\|blake\|: /msg nickserv ghost {blake} pwd
17:39	\|blake\|	But I'll check it out.
17:39	justin_smith	that will kick the ghost {blake} off irc
17:39	amalloy	but {blake} isn't on irc now
17:40	\|blake\|	justin_smith: OK, I'll try that next time.
17:40	\|blake\|	Well, okay, yesterday I fixed my NVidia drivers so that it would use all four monitors.
17:40	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah, but his is initial failure was most certainly a ghosting issue I would assume
17:40	\|blake\|	And when I woke up, my pillow was gone.
17:40	\|blake\|	No, when I got everything sorted out HexChat refused to go past ident. So I was using an online IRC.
17:40	amalloy	that's not the ending i expected to that story
17:41	\|blake\|	amalloy: All my stories end that way. It can be...awkward...sometimes.
17:41	justin_smith	\|blake\|: I really want to try out this lappy with five externals (plus the built in) some day, - it can do it but I've never had the requisite hardware handy
17:41	amalloy	maybe you never bought a pillow at all
17:42	amalloy	#clojure minutes, 2015-01-15, 22:40 UTC. justin_smith excommunicated for using the word "lappy"
17:42	justin_smith	haha
17:42	\|blake\|	justin_smith: I've been sitting here with two working monitors, and two none for a year.
17:42	\|blake\|	Then I got a new box, and managed to get three working.
17:45	TimMc	tcrayford____: I thought "goggle grup" was intentional. :-)
17:46	justin_smith	I have definitely seen "rubby" used intentionally (to great comic effect)