#clojure – 2014-12-24

2014-12-24

00:27	crispin	hey, I want to use an externs in cljs
00:27	crispin	that is, NOT bring in the js code to the closure compiler
00:27	crispin	I've made my extern js file
00:27	crispin	Ive put it in :externs
00:28	crispin	(as per instructions)
00:28	crispin	but compiling keeps giving me WARNING: No such namespace: PIXI at line 1 src/cljs/cljs_jam/gfx.cljs
00:28	crispin	WARNING: Required namespace not provided for PIXI
00:28	crispin	SEVERE: /home/crispin/dev/clojure/cljs-jam/resources/public/cljs_jam/gfx.js:4: ERROR - required "PIXI" namespace never provided
00:28	crispin	goog.require('PIXI');
00:28	crispin	it shouldnt be goog.require()ing it
00:29	crispin	its an external!
00:29	crispin	oh wait!
00:29	crispin	do I need to :use instead of :require it in ns?
00:31	crispin	nope that didn't work
00:32	crispin	how do I reference external javascript?
00:32	crispin	I followed the docs. Doesn't work
00:35	crispin	ok got it working
00:35	crispin	had cljsbuild auto
00:35	crispin	changed my project.clj file
00:35	crispin	need to ctrl-c and restart the auto build. It doesnt pickup project.clj changes
00:36	crispin	no wait. thats still trying to google closure compile it
00:36	crispin	(I added :foreign-libs)
00:37	crispin	http://lukevanderhart.com/2011/09/30/using-javascript-and-clojurescript.html
00:37	crispin	how do I reference external javascript?"
00:37	crispin	"Referencing a library outside your compilation"
00:37	crispin	doesnt work
00:37	crispin	keeps wanting to goog.require() my extern library
00:41	crispin	maybe theres a problem with my externs... let me try modifying it a bit
00:41	crispin	it is one gripe I have with leiningen
00:41	crispin	silences so many errors
00:41	crispin	bad path in there somewhere.... crickets
00:44	crispin	FUUUUU
00:44	crispin	so frustrating
00:47	crispin	eg. put a completely bogus path into externs. no error at all
00:47	crispin	just silence
00:49	andyf	You can try filing an issue for Leiningen: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues
00:50	crispin	ok I think I got it. Errors in the externs
00:51	crispin	but yes. will check for a ticket. Because if the path doesn't exist, you get no error
00:51	crispin	I had a typo in the path
00:51	crispin	now I get: ERROR: JSC_PARSE_ERROR. Parse error. '}' expected at /home/crispin/dev/clojure/cljs-jam/src/js/pixi/externs2.js line 651 : 0
00:51	crispin	if the path doesn't exist
00:52	crispin	just fails bizarly. Will check the leiningen issues and raise one if theres not one already
00:54	crispin	ok fixed all that. still doesnt work :P
00:54	crispin	will keep digging
00:58	maxpn	how to split sequence by chuncks?
00:58	maxpn	[1 2 3 4 5 6] -> [1 2] [3 4] [5 6] ...
00:59	maxpn	chuncks of n-elements each
00:59	luxbock	,(doc partition)
00:59	clojurebot	"([n coll] [n step coll] [n step pad coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists of n items each, at offsets step apart. If step is not supplied, defaults to n, i.e. the partitions do not overlap. If a pad collection is supplied, use its elements as necessary to complete last partition upto n items. In case there are not enough padding elements, return a partition with less than n items."
00:59	maxpn	thank you
01:00	luxbock	there's also partition-by which is handy at times
03:04	Raynes	https://github.com/scopely/sqlquest/issues/16#issuecomment-68034697 I love my coworkers.
03:04	Raynes	Teasing me about my Clojureness on a Coffeescript project that I wrote :P
03:27	andyf	You should respond and tell him its a Python triple-quoted string thing.
03:28	lxsameer	hey guys, I really confused in a two way situation between clojure and scala, What is the most important advantages of clojure over scala ?
03:29	sg2002	lxsameer: Clojure is a lisp.
03:31	lxsameer	sg2002: ok and how is that an advantage my friend ?
03:33	sg2002	lxsameer: The answer to that would be a long one. Just gonna say that there are people who believe that lisp style languages are better and if you're one of them, that's an advantage of clojure over scala.
03:34	sg2002	lxsameer: Another specific clojure advantage is it's concurrency model. But again you have to understand it before you know whether you need it.
04:38	ddellacosta	Is there an equivalent to Haskell's flip function in Clojure?
04:40	hellofunk	ddellacosta: interesting we discussed that yesterday, flip exists in a common library for clojure, can't remember which one now
04:40	hellofunk	though it's trivial to write it yourself
04:40	ddellacosta	hellofunk: thanks, yeah, just would be handy if it was already part of core, but ah well
04:40	hellofunk	not in core
04:42	hellofunk	ddellacosta: it is in flatland/useful according to my chat logs
04:42	ddellacosta	hellofunk: cool, thanks
04:42	ddellacosta	probably not worth using the lib just for that now, but good to know
04:44	hellofunk	i'll have to take a look at the library to see what else might be "useful", no pun intended
04:50	hellofunk	ddellacosta: i'm curious why flip comes up often, why is it important to rearrange arg order so often?
04:51	SagiCZ1	what about if you want to use threading, and one of 10 functions has a different arg order than the others?
04:51	ddellacosta	hellofunk: I'm still learning Haskell so I can't tell you in general, although pair tuples are a more common type that you run into in Haskell, so that may have something to do with it
04:51	ddellacosta	hellofunk: the reason I wanted to use it just now was to flip a sort, basically
04:52	ddellacosta	and yeah, in Clojure at least, SagiCZ1's example seems pertinent
04:53	SagiCZ1	i wonder what as-> does.. didnt understand it
04:53	SagiCZ1	(doc as->)
04:53	clojurebot	"([expr name & forms]); Binds name to expr, evaluates the first form in the lexical context of that binding, then binds name to that result, repeating for each successive form, returning the result of the last form."
04:54	SagiCZ1	seems like it is for when you have functions with different args order and you want to still use threading
04:55	hellofunk	SagiCZ1: ddellacosta: ah i get it. i rarely use the thread macro so maybe haven't run into that need. i'm still old school leaning on comp and partial a lot
04:55	SagiCZ1	i guess its just a matter of preference..
04:55	ddellacosta	hellofunk: I used to use the threading macro a lot more, and use it less now, as I find (ironically) readability can suffer using it sometimes
04:56	ddellacosta	and if I've got a huge stack of functions then probably I'm doing something wrong
04:56	SagiCZ1	i am a beginner so this may be something i am heading towards in the future
04:57	hellofunk	SagiCZ1: i should sit down and memorize the core api some time. little nuggets like this as-> keep popping up and i wish they where in my regular vocab
04:58	hellofunk	for Om, i wish I'd adopted doto a long time ago, would have cleaned up a number of things for me.
04:59	SagiCZ1	i learn it similar to a human language vocabulary.. if i run into a need of some function many times over and over i remember it.. otherwise its not worth my time
04:59	ddellacosta	I've been using Clojure for years now and I still come upon functions I was barely aware of, or new idioms
05:00	ddellacosta	also there are some functions I finally have "gotten the hang of" and know when to use
05:00	ddellacosta	I couldn't for the life of me figure out why to use juxt for a long time, for example
05:00	ddellacosta	still don't think it's that useful actually, haha
05:00	ddellacosta	but figured out some uses
05:01	hellofunk	ddellacosta: someone showed a good example of juxt the other day: using it to pull out isolated values from a map, based on just a selection of its keys.
05:02	ddellacosta	hellofunk: yeah, that's what I was thinking of actually...and that's all I've ever been able to do with it!
05:02	ddellacosta	maybe I'm not imaginative enough
05:03	ddellacosta	also starting to learn Haskell lately, there are a few functions I wish were named differently
05:03	hellofunk	,((juxt :a :b) {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4})
05:03	clojurebot	[1 2]
05:03	hellofunk	in this case i think of it as "just" the keys i want
05:03	ddellacosta	comp seems so unwieldy now, love the simple .
05:03	ddellacosta	yeah, that is handy, definitely
05:03	ddellacosta	and that + map can be really useful
05:04	hellofunk	you are saying you do or do not like using comp now?
05:04	ddellacosta	&(map (juxt :a :b) [{:a "a" :b "b"}{:a "a1" :b "b1}])
05:04	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string
05:04	ddellacosta	d'oh
05:04	ddellacosta	&(map (juxt :a :b) [{:a "a" :b "b"}{:a "a1" :b "b1"}])
05:04	lazybot	⇒ (["a" "b"] ["a1" "b1"])
05:04	hellofunk	ddellacosta: almost like an sql query in that case
05:04	ddellacosta	hellofunk: I'm saying I might use comp more if the syntax was simpler, since it's super powerful
05:04	ddellacosta	yeah, never thought of it that way
05:05	hellofunk	ddellacosta: i think i will steal that idiom you just shared when i get back results from postgres!
05:05	ddellacosta	ha, yeah, although to be honest I find it of limited utility
05:06	ddellacosta	but would be interested in hearing how other people have managed to use juxt
05:06	hellofunk	it comes up a lot when reading others solutions to the 4clojure problems. lots of ingenuity to be learned from that site.
05:06	SagiCZ1	~juxt
05:06	clojurebot	juxt is pretty metal
05:06	ddellacosta	good point, I need to revisit that site
05:08	hellofunk	ddellacosta: perhaps better for the cljs room but have you done much drag and drop operations in Om? i'm tackling the sortable example today to really grasp it
05:08	ddellacosta	hellofunk: I have done a drag and drop implementation in Om, as a matter of fact
05:08	ddellacosta	it was a pain in the ass, but mostly because drag and drop freaking sucks
05:08	hellofunk	ddellacosta: did you model it on the Om example for sortable?
05:09	ddellacosta	er, I don't think so
05:09	ddellacosta	sorry. :-(
05:09	hellofunk	ddellacosta: then you must really know JS because it seems to involve a lot of stuff i'd never know without following that example closely
05:10	ddellacosta	I mean, I got to know the drag and drop API pretty well because of it
05:10	ddellacosta	but it is really just frustrating to work with, and there are a lot of browser quirks
05:10	hellofunk	using googe closure utilities?
05:10	ddellacosta	I did not use Google Closure, no, that may be one way around the challenges
05:10	ddellacosta	but our front-end is too specific to use whatever Google offers in that domain
05:11	ddellacosta	and in general I find trying to integrate google closure widgets into Om is a major PITA
05:11	hellofunk	ddellacosta: ok. dnolen's uses closure for a few things in the example
05:11	ddellacosta	it could work, I honestly don't know
05:11	ddellacosta	we just have a very specific set of needs
05:12	ddellacosta	and certainly there is a lot of utility in the Google Closure library, I think some parts of it are very robust
05:12	ddellacosta	I don't love the interface in general, it's super Java-y
05:12	ddellacosta	but it handles a lot of browser quirks well
05:12	hellofunk	ddellacosta: its the event handling and stuff that the Om example uses
05:13	ddellacosta	hellofunk: oh, yeah, he falls back on that a lot, which makes sense because otherwise you have to import Dommy or something
05:13	ddellacosta	hellofunk: certainly the event handling lib in Google Closure is lightweight enough
05:13	ddellacosta	hellofunk: I was more talking about the UI widgets
05:13	ddellacosta	Google Closure's lib is huge
05:15	ddellacosta	hellofunk: re: drag and drop, I don't feel like the situation has changed much since this was written: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/09/the_html5_drag.html
05:15	hellofunk	ddellacosta: he does stuff like this: (doto js/window (events/listen EventType.MOUSEUP mouse-up) (events/listen EventType.MOUSEMOVE mouse-move))
05:15	ddellacosta	(well, it's improved a bit, I used it at least)
05:15	ddellacosta	yeah
05:15	ddellacosta	that's simple enough, and not much different from how it would look in Dommy
05:16	hellofunk	i've been tasked with a big drag and drop interface and we use Om so i hope it goes well
05:16	ddellacosta	hellofunk: Om is the easy part. Be careful about checking what parts of the api all the browsers support
05:17	hellofunk	ddellacosta: well fortunately we don't support all browsers :)\
05:17	ddellacosta	hellofunk: that is the part that sucks and will make you miserable
05:17	ddellacosta	hellofunk: good for you, you're lucky. :-)
05:18	hellofunk	for now, we will be expanding it in the future. hopefully by then we have a real browser expert to take over stuff
05:40	cfleming	hellofunk: My argument wasn't so much that we shouldn't be using text, which I think is actually a pretty good serialisation mechanism, but that tools should understand what that text means
05:41	cfleming	hellofunk: I'd love to provide a formatting "view" on code, it's something I always wanted in Java, where different formatting styles are much more different than in Clojure
05:42	hellofunk	cfleming: yeah i paraphrased you confusingly perhaps. i think it was about the writing of text and focusing each minutiae like indents, line breaks, parens, etc that gets in the way of "the zone" of expressing ideas
05:42	cfleming	hellofunk: Yeah, I'm definitely a fan of removing all that.
05:43	hellofunk	cfleming: i don't want to have to focus both on my code as well as its display formatting simultaneosly; yet the display formatting affects the ease of writing the code, so it's an annoying feedback loop
05:43	cfleming	hellofunk: I'm actually planning to record where the user has made changes, and automatically reformat the current top level form after a second's inactivity.
05:43	cfleming	hellofunk: So you
05:43	cfleming	Ooops
05:44	cfleming	hellofunk: So you'll modify the code, stop to think for a moment, and it'll format what you've done so far.
05:44	cfleming	hellofunk: Doing that just for the top-level form should make it interactive-level fast
05:44	hellofunk	cfleming: that would work, as you type new nested forms, it reformats parent forms to "make room" for them on the screen without line wrapping
05:45	hellofunk	and by "reformat" i usually just mean where the line breaks are inserted, since they affects the overall indentiation of deep nested forms
05:46	cfleming	hellofunk: Yeah - that's a little tricky, automatically breaking lines is quite controversial and requires some knowledge of the forms themselves
05:47	cfleming	hellofunk: I'm experimenting with that right now.
05:47	SagiCZ1	can really imagine how would that work
05:48	SagiCZ1	whats hard about manually inserting line breaks when you write code?
05:48	hellofunk	cfleming: here is an example: https://www.refheap.com/95377 note how the final arg2 has vastly different indentation despite that both versions here are correct
05:49	cfleming	SagiCZ1: Generally, that different people like to do it in different ways, and doing it interactively often requires the full context which you may not have.
05:49	mi6x3m	hellofunk: i prefer the second :)
05:49	cfleming	SagiCZ1: e.g. a simple example is that I often have (if condition (then-form) (else-form)) on the same line if it's short
05:49	SagiCZ1	i insert them where it makes code more readible.. no strict rules
05:49	SagiCZ1	yeah
05:50	hellofunk	SagiCZ1: because when you are writing a fn, you don't necessarily know in advance when line wrapping will occur, which is ugly and throws off the readability of the code. having to stop and go back to format your code just so you can continue to work with something readable is a stumbling block in the workflow
05:50	cfleming	SagiCZ1: Exactly, but that's a very difficult heuristic to apply automatically
05:50	SagiCZ1	but you do want to try to implement that heuristic, is that what you are talking about here?
05:51	cfleming	SagiCZ1: I'd love to, but the problem is automatic formatting is infuriating if it doesn't work well.
05:51	hellofunk	to me the issue is not complicated. just add line breaks to parent forms after the fn name when line wrapping occurs.
05:51	SagiCZ1	cfleming: that would be my fear exactly
05:51	mi6x3m	I had the idea of writing an automatic formatter for the clojure style guide using fipp
05:52	mi6x3m	mainly test-driven
05:52	hellofunk	mi6x3m: i only like the second when i have to use it to avoid line wrapping. generally i prefer the first but when working with Om which has #js literals and other things, the code can get quite long and then starts wrapping a lot
05:53	cfleming	hellofunk: That can be mitigated by allowing functions to indent two spaces, which was one of the focuses of the recent discussions around formatting Clojure code
05:54	hellofunk	cfleming: i don't follow... allow a fn to indent? what does that mean?
05:54	cfleming	If you haven't read it, Steve Yegge's post on implementing an IntelliJ style mode for JS is a really great read: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.co.nz/2008/03/js2-mode-new-javascript-mode-for-emacs.html
05:54	cfleming	In particular how difficult indentation is.
05:55	cfleming	hellofunk: Bozhidar feels very strongly that only macros should have body-like indentation of two spaces.
05:55	cfleming	hellofunk: So functions can only line up in your two styles there.
05:56	cfleming	hellofunk: Om in particular has a lot of forms that are actually functions but which benefit from macro-style indentation, which is why Cursive allows that.
05:57	hellofunk	hm i must admit i'm still confused what you mean by macro indents vs fn indents. i've never noticed the differences.
05:57	cfleming	See https://github.com/cursiveclojure/cursive/issues/536
05:58	cfleming	See the difference?
05:58	hellofunk	cfleming: i see. i never noticed that macros do it differently. probably because i don't use too many macros. but you are right that Om would really benefit from this
05:59	hellofunk	cfleming: in fact I became passionate about this "problem" only when I started using Om, but then realized that it applied in general.
05:59	cfleming	hellofunk: There are lots of other examples too. In general I'm not a fan of the one-space indent (the second example in your refheap).
06:00	hellofunk	cfleming: that issues link refers to a "reformat" feature in Cursive, is that right? kinda like a "beautify" ?
06:01	cfleming	hellofunk: Yeah. Currently it doesn't actually break lines, it adjusts the indent and also aligns some things automatically, like map values and (soon) let bindings and the like.
06:01	hellofunk	cfleming: that issue was closed on gh, what was the outcome? is it just for Om fns or in general you can set in Cursive your preferred indent style for any fn?
06:02	cfleming	hellofunk: It's actually capable of breaking lines now too, if only I can get the heuristics right. I'm working on that for EDN first since that's easier - I'll then pretty print REPL results and so on.
06:02	cfleming	hellofunk: It's also used for the diff view for test results, but that's a hack right now and doesn't use the proper formatting engine.
06:02	cfleming	hellofunk: It's general, you can set it for any fn.
06:05	hellofunk	well it's just one more reason i need to devote some time to giving Cursive a solid look.
06:05	cfleming	Let me know what you think if you do, for sure - I'm always interested in feedback, good and bad
06:05	SagiCZ1	hellofunk: definitely worth it, i cant imagine coding without it, its super intuitive and just works like a charm
06:06	hellofunk	the irony is that after using emacs for 1 year I'm finally starting to really really get into it. but there are some things for cljs that emacs will never do right until someone write a good syntax parser in the spirit of what Cursive/IntelliJ does
06:06	cfleming	It'll be interesting to see how dnolen's new compiler functionality for cljs.test will help cljs tooling in Emacs
06:08	hellofunk	one thing i liked right away -- the simple things -- when i looked at cursive once was the little vertical line that helps you see where things are lined up. of course, this could also be done in emacs
06:09	SagiCZ1	i think thats an intellij feature though
06:09	hellofunk	SagiCZ1: regardless, it's sweet
06:09	cfleming	Yeah, I got that one for free. It is nice, though.
06:09	SagiCZ1	thats another advantage of cursive though.. that it has a solid and stable intellij to run on
06:10	SagiCZ1	if it was an eclipse plugin, i would have rather learned emacs :P
06:10	hellofunk	cfleming: and you demoed some things where actual code lines would change and get rewritten automatically, and while cool, i can see a meta form of this where users can add their own little coding tools to do this for various circumstanced.
06:11	cfleming	hellofunk: The refactoring stuff, you mean? Yeah, that's easy to do really nicely - it took a while to get the infrastructure in place, but I can add new things pretty quickly now.
06:11	hellofunk	i mean once you have a great tool like cursive that understands the lanuage syntax, there is a whole new level of tooling that can come from that, the demos just scratch the surface.
06:12	cfleming	hellofunk: Yeah, absolutely, I'm really just at the point now where I'm starting to add functionality based on the infrastructure, which has taken a year or so to get to where it is now.
06:13	hellofunk	cfleming: i can completely see how some day it could be possible that the code you physically type and code that ends up on the screen are quite different, making it possible to get ideas across almost in shorthand. like improvising music. that would be the ultimate realization of what lisp has to offer, i think.
06:13	SagiCZ1	you gotta be lazier than i am if you came up with such ideas
06:13	SagiCZ1	:D
06:15	hellofunk	well just imagine the power of an interactive programming environment like any good lisp but without the tedious layer of lots of typing in the middle. our ideas are always bigger than the process of typing little keys. FP feels a lot like a gesture-driven or musical process to me, less like a textual one
06:19	cfleming	Yeah, there's lots of potential. In particular I do think some of this kind of functionality can let you sketch out code and then have it be filled in/organised for you.
06:20	cfleming	I'm also toying with the idea of being able to capture a REPL session and automatically turn it into unit tests.
06:20	cfleming	Or at least semi-automatically.
06:20	cfleming	Right, bedtime for me
06:20	hellofunk	oh exactly. i really think that text editing is going to be a smaller part of the future of coding in general.
06:20	cfleming	Happy Christmas, everyone, if you're in a Christmassy sort of place.
06:20	hellofunk	merry xmas!
06:24	tomjack	'(def symbol ^holy-crap! doc-string? init?)
06:26	SagiCZ1	merry christmas to you all guys
06:27	SagiCZ1	is it the 23 or 24 in the us?
06:27	hellofunk	SagiCZ1: it is the 24th now everywhere in the world
06:27	SagiCZ1	cool.. i never know whether to add or substract to my timezone :-/
06:41	SagiCZ1	how would you pick random n elements from a collection?
06:42	SagiCZ1	,(take 5 (shuffle (range 10)))
06:42	clojurebot	(7 2 5 3 4)
06:42	SagiCZ1	it would be cool if shuffle was lazy
06:43	Bronsa	how would it work
06:43	Bronsa	?
06:44	SagiCZ1	it would return a random element, and remove it from the collection
06:44	delexi	is there a function/idiom in clojure acting like flip in haskell? As a concrete example: I want to pass the arguments to mod in the reverse ordering. I want to use (mod num div) as (mode div num).
06:44	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: but get a random n element in a coll, you have to resolve that collection until the nth element
06:45	SagiCZ1	Bronsa: i see
06:45	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: and how can you even know how big the collection is without realizing it?
06:45	SagiCZ1	count on vector is O(1) though?
06:45	Bronsa	vectors are not lazy
06:45	SagiCZ1	of course
06:45	SagiCZ1	sorry i am stupid in the mornings.. thanks
06:46	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: i mean, there can be lazy + O(1) count colls, e.g. range in cljs
06:47	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: but still, there's really no good way to have a shuffle a lazy collection without realizing it
06:48	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: I suppose shuffle could produce a lazily shuffled coll, but the issue of having to realize the coll still remains.
06:48	SagiCZ1	so it wouldnt save any time on (take n (shuffle coll))
06:49	tomjack	if the lazy seq is very big, you can do better, I think. not lazier, but more forgetful.
06:50	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: it would save time if n was sufficiently small, realizing coll was sufficiently fast and shuffling the whole coll took a long time
06:50	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: wich I think is an unrealistic scenario
06:51	ctford	I've found something strange while working in a directory with an accented character - using clojure.java.io, (-> "file.txt" io/resource io/reader) fails, due to URL encoding of the path.
06:52	ctford	Does anyone know if there's a way to handle this correctly, or is it just a limitation in the Java libraries?
06:54	Bronsa	SagiCZ1: thinking about it it might make sense in the case of, (take small-number (lazy-shuffle (vec (range BIG_NUMBER))))
06:56	ctford	Perhaps using getResourceAsStream() would avoid the problem? I believe it would still be compatible with io/reader.
07:00	SagiCZ1	,(into {} (map #(vector %1 :x) (range 5)))
07:00	clojurebot	{0 :x, 1 :x, 2 :x, 3 :x, 4 :x}
07:00	SagiCZ1	any way to make this look better?
07:01	mi6x3m	SagiCZ1: define "better"
07:01	SagiCZ1	shorter
07:02	ctford	,(zipmap (range 5) (repeat :x))
07:02	clojurebot	{4 :x, 3 :x, 2 :x, 1 :x, 0 :x}
07:02	SagiCZ1	ctford: pretty cool, thanks
07:03	ctford	SagiCZ1: no problem.
07:30	ctford	Would there be an interest in an io/stream-resource to match io/resource? It would return an InputStream, and thus avoid URL-encoding issues.
07:36	OscarZ-	if i have some client side app that interacts with Clojure server.. i'd like to do some server side validation on the data sent by client.. what do you guys recommend for that sort of task ?
07:36	OscarZ-	i guess usually the JSON is converted to clojure maps
07:37	ctford	OscarZ-: What kind of validation? If it's simply checking that the input is of the right format, Prismatic Schema is very handy.
07:37	ctford	However, it's designed to either succeed or fail - it won't give you errors back as data that you can format for clients.
07:38	OscarZ-	im thinking stuff like making sure there are no extra fields, the fields that are there are in specified format.. ints, strings, maybe i could use some regexp patterns too
07:38	OscarZ-	yeah, i'd like some kind of feedback too
07:40	OscarZ-	hmm.. ive been thinking of some simple exercise project for learning Clojure.. maybe i could try to do that myself
07:44	OscarZ-	i also ran into EDN data format.. but i guess its not for this sort of thing
07:53	OscarZ-	if i have a map, and the map can have other maps inside it (and recursively they might have more maps inside them) .. whats the best way to transform all those nested maps with some function ?
08:04	AimHere	OscarZ-, you looked into zippers?
08:05	Frozenlock	OscarZ-: zippers, walk, even 'for' might be good enough.
08:05	OscarZ-	nope.. ill check them out :)
08:08	OscarZ-	"Editing trees in Clojure with clojure.zip" sounds just like the thing im looking for :)
08:10	OscarZ-	this is probably something i should be able to program myself
08:12	OscarZ-	but with Clojure, as its so data- oriented, if i have some problem with data transformations that sounds "primitive enough", i usually find out its already there :)
08:14	OscarZ-	hmm.. zippers seem a bit complex.. maybe they are too flexible for my thing..
08:19	OscarZ-	ill try to formulate what i want: given a map, i want everything else but maps to be "copied" as they are.. for maps i'd like to run a some "check" function, if check=true, then the map transformed by some function of my own, if check=false, then it is copied as it is and not recursed
08:20	OscarZ-	is this a case for zippers?
08:22	AimHere	You might get away with some recursive function using something like recurse-kv
08:22	AimHere	reduce-kv rather
08:28	hellofunk	OscarZ-: that kind of validation seems rather simple to send from a browser to a server and then back. unless it depends on data that is on the server, why not just validate client side? and if you cljs client side, this is pretty straightforward
08:35	OscarZ-	AimHere, does that do only one level though ?
08:37	OscarZ-	hellofunk, id like a function "layer" in my server side code that if it passes the validation, it is safe to pass it down to save it to database etc..
08:39	OscarZ-	hellofunk, i suppose i could do more heavy validation on client side that would provide feedback, but i certainly need some validation on server too for security reasons... and as they are surely overlapping concerns, i wouldnt want to do it twice if possible
08:41	OscarZ-	CLJS on client side and Clojure on server it sounds like a library is needed :)
08:43	hellofunk	OscarZ-: well, there are many libraries out there for interop between cljs and clojure. but in your case if the nature of the validation requires information the browser does not have, then of course you'd do that on the server.
08:45	OscarZ-	hellofunk, yeah true, i didnt even think about that.. i could need that too, eg. check if the username exists and that sort of thing
08:47	OscarZ-	i guess the way i would like forms on a web page to work needs to have some server side validation too
08:47	AimHere	OscarZ-, it does, but you can put it in a recursive function; there's also 'walk'
08:47	OscarZ-	for example when you type in a username, we need to check if it already exists
08:48	OscarZ-	and i need to do that per input field, its not enough to first do client side validation and if it passes, then do server side
08:49	uris77	that sounds like database validation
08:49	OscarZ-	AimHere, ok.. i didnt understand it from the docs
09:03	kl	do you guys throw exceptions, or use another approach for exceptional situations that is referentially transparent?
09:05	ddellacosta	kl: you might want to take a look at dire, if you haven't: https://github.com/MichaelDrogalis/dire
09:06	ddellacosta	not exactly referentially transparent, but maybe as close as you're going to get with Java in the mix
09:07	hellofunk	OscarZ-: are you sending down your info to the server for validation via a socket or ajax?
09:07	OscarZ-	hellofunk, ajax
09:07	hellofunk	OscarZ-: are you doing it only on form submit, or constantly monitoring their changes as they type?
09:08	hellofunk	or perhaps doing it in an onBluer
09:08	hellofunk	*onBlur
09:08	OscarZ-	onBlur, i'd like instant feedback as they move out of some input field
09:09	hellofunk	i've been working client side with sockets from a vendor and must admit they are quite nice over ajax. i hope to study the mechanics of getting it all going serverside too, but i think i'd need to switch to http-kit
09:10	hellofunk	by which i mean, nicer than ajax (preferred over ajax)
09:23	kl	ddellacosta: I'm surprised that the maybe/try monads like Scala/Haskell aren't used
09:26	kl	Throwing exceptions is very referentially untransparent - not very functional at all
09:26	tcrayford____	kl / ddellacosta : I use that style in my app's API: http://yellerapp.com/posts/2014-06-27-api-error-handling.html
09:28	tcrayford____	roll a thing on top of ->> and -> that shortcircuits when an error type is returned from one of the functions
09:30	kl	tcrayford____: I'll have to revisit this when I've got a better understanding of clojure. I've just started
09:31	tcrayford____	yeah. It's just a reimplementation of the `either` monad :)
09:31	kl	Oh. That sounds like what I'd hope for
09:31	tcrayford____	but it's not widely used
09:32	tcrayford____	(I mean, the code in there isn't in a library or anything, so it's not too surprising other folk don't)
09:33	kl	I find it a little disappointing that side-effects are common for functions in a language that's meant to be a functional language
09:34	tcrayford____	you mean like, clojure.core has a load of side effecting functions in it?
09:34	Bronsa	kl clojure doesn't enforce purity. But the core language has very few side-effecting functions
09:34	kl	tcrayford____: I mean exceptional cases in functions we use/make seem to be handled by exceptions, which are side-effects
09:36	tcrayford____	are they? they're just control flow things as far as I can tell
09:44	kl	tcrayford____: I don't know whether that's the common clojure line of thought: but I think all Scala/Haskell etc. devs would disagree with that
09:45	tcrayford____	kl: that's coming from a dude who's done ~10k+ lines of production haskell over the past 5 years
09:45	tcrayford____	;)
09:50	kl	tcrayford____: strange. I suppose they are different to "non-local side effects". I'll have to meditate on this one
09:51	tcrayford____	you can sorta imagine it if you wrapped the entire program with an Either monad, it'd come out just like exceptions
10:41	jonathanj	how do things like :dev :prod :test keys get set when using lein?
10:42	jonathanj	can i find out whether my application is running in dev, prod or test myself?
10:42	dnolen_	jonathanj: you can w/ environ https://github.com/weavejester/environ
10:44	jonathanj	dnolen_: well what i'm trying to do is not repeat myself when using joplin: i have to specify the database connection string in the :joplin key (in project.clj) and then in my db-spec that i use in various places in my code; i can't see any clear way to avoid repeating the URL
10:48	dnolen_	jonathanj: sounds solvable w/ environ, a while ago I played around with Stuart Sierra's component model + environ - seemed promising
10:48	jonathanj	dnolen_: hrm, i'm not sure how i would solve it with environ
10:49	dnolen_	jonathanj: have you never done this before w/ Django or Rails, etc?
10:49	jonathanj	dnolen_: or more specifically, i'm not sure how i call an environ function from projuct.clj
10:49	dnolen_	jonathanj: seems the same to me.
10:49	dnolen_	jonathanj: it's not an eviron function, you have dev, staging, prod profiles in project.clj and you can read these via envrion in your program
10:50	jonathanj	i thought environ only read values from the :env key in your project.clj
10:50	dnolen_	jonathanj: each profile can have it's on :env key
10:51	dnolen_	s/on/own
10:52	dnolen_	jonathanj: ah but you're probably saying :joplin is not this flexible
10:52	jonathanj	okay, so if i specify the database-uri to :joplin {:databases {:blah {... :uri URI_GOES_HERE}}}, i have no idea how to avoid repeating that
10:52	jonathanj	but i guess if i put the env and joplin defs next to one another in each profile then it's probably okay
10:53	jonathanj	dnolen_: i'm not really sure how joplin could be made better, in this regard
10:53	jonathanj	dnolen_: sure you could add an external config file but then you kind of still have this problem, maybe it's marginally better
10:53	jonathanj	(i mean, i would contribute to making joplin better if i knew how)
11:02	triss	hey all...
11:03	triss	what's this operator all about #'
11:03	Bronsa	triss: clojure doesn't really have operators, that's a reader macro
11:03	agarman	it is the same as (var ...)
11:04	Bronsa	triss: that reader macro expands to (var ..) e.g. #'+ == (var clojure.core/+)
11:04	Bronsa	,#'+
11:04	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/+
11:04	Bronsa	,'#'+
11:04	clojurebot	(var +)
11:04	Bronsa	,(var +)
11:04	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/+
11:04	triss	now I'm wondering what var does.... of to the docs i go
11:04	triss	cheers chaps!
11:06	Bronsa	,(doc var)
11:06	clojurebot	I don't understand.
11:06	Bronsa	:<
11:06	Bronsa	$doc var
11:06	Bronsa	&doc var
11:06	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'sandbox11388/doc
11:06	Bronsa	bah
11:06	hellofunk	Bronsa: lol i was going to do the same thing
11:06	Bronsa	&(doc var)
11:06	lazybot	⇒ "Special: var; The symbol must resolve to a var, and the Var object\nitself (not its value) is returned. The reader macro #'x expands to (var x)."
11:06	Bronsa	there we go
11:07	hellofunk	triss: if you understand what a var actually is, and its difference from what its contents do, then you'll understand what (var..) does.. i hope
11:07	Bronsa	triss: if you don't know what a Var is, http://clojure.org/vars
11:09	hellofunk	in the practical world, calling var explicitly (including using the reader macro) is often used in environments where you don't want to recompile the caller to get the callees newly compiled changes.. i.e., in Ring handlers for web servers
11:10	hellofunk	you can usually use the var of a fn in place of the fn itself, since the var will lookup and point to the fn when the var is invoked.
11:10	Bronsa	(inc hellofunk)
11:10	lazybot	⇒ 1
11:10	hellofunk	$(#'+ 5 6)
11:10	hellofunk	&(#'+ 5 6)
11:10	lazybot	⇒ 11
11:10	mbac	what's the minimal translation of this clisp code? (defun foo (n) (lambda (i) (incf n i)))
11:10	hellofunk	works just like +
11:11	mbac	is it (defn foo [n] (let [n (atom n)] (fn [i] (swap! n (partial + i)))))
11:12	Bronsa	mbac: clojure strongly discourages mutable state, we don't have an equivalent for incf
11:12	mgaare	what does incf do?
11:12	Bronsa	or for setf, that is
11:12	Bronsa	mgaare: it's +=
11:12	mgaare	ah
11:13	hellofunk	mbac: that would depend on whether you want the atom closed over or recreated every time you call the function
11:13	Bronsa	mbac: the clj code you pasted is not equivalent to the CL one
11:14	hellofunk	mbac: your clj translation really doesn't need atom at all i think
11:15	hellofunk	mbac: and actually your passed in arg of n is ignored when you rebind it via let
11:16	mbac	hellofunk, the atom n shadows the original n, which is the intent
11:17	hellofunk	mbac: i'm sorry i misread the atom form
11:18	mbac	for context, this little toy come sfrom the appendix in http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html
11:21	hellofunk	mbac: the problem is that in your code, there is a separation from the original n, which remains unchanged, and the n created by foo, which is closed over as a new atom. your original n will not change as you call this function, which i think is the intent of the CL snippet you pasted
11:22	hellofunk	in clojure, you would just make n an atom from the start if you need it to be stateful
11:23	mbac	what problem in my code are you referring to specifically?
11:23	mbac	my only complaint is the clisp version is way more succinct :)
11:23	hellofunk	mbac: i assume you are trying to mutate the original n via the final lambda created
11:24	hellofunk	mbac: i disagree. if you make n an atom from the start, the clojure version is just as succinct. your code is adding new features by creating a new stateful n detached from the original n.
11:24	mbac	is the clisp version mutating the original n being passed in?
11:24	hellofunk	mbac: i assume that is the case, it is not?
11:24	mbac	beats me, i don't write clisp :)
11:25	hellofunk	in CL data is not immutable by default, which was my biggest gripe with that language because some fns mutate the arg and others do not, and it wasn't always clear which they were
11:27	jonathanj	what should my main function look like for a ring app?
11:27	jonathanj	`lein ring server` doesn't run the main function (afaict) but `lein ring uberjar` complains i have no main function
11:29	hellofunk	mbac: yes looks like it does mutate, so the translation to clojure is to just make n an atom if that's what you really want: http://dantorop.info/project/emacs-animation/lisp9.html
11:32	mbac	cool
11:36	hellofunk	mbac: there are a number of sites and blog posts from several people about converting Paul Graham's work to Clojure. worth checking out since it's not just syntactic transformation but often conceptual improvements as well since there are big philosophical differences between the languages
11:37	mfikes	distinct claims to be lazy, but embedded inside of it is an eager optimization, causing this to hang: (take 10 (distinct (concat [1 2 3] (repeat 4)))) Wondering what it means to claim laziness...
11:39	jonathanj	according to http://yogthos.net/posts/2013-01-11-One-Ring-to-rule-them-all.html `lein ring uberjar` should generate a main for me?
11:39	hellofunk	mfikes: nice example, but think about how, how could distinct be lazy on an infinite sequence?
11:40	hellofunk	the docs say it is lazy, but i don't see how that is possible
11:40	mfikes	hellofunk: I'm wondering if the recur inside if it is necessary
11:41	hellofunk	mfikes: if you take 1, 2, 3, 4 it works. the problem is it keeps looking and looking and looking once it cannot find a 5th distinct item you have requested. so i see now how it is lazy, though it is easy to get an infinite loop with it, even with take
11:44	mfikes	hellofunk: Right... I see what you are saying. It will hang looking trying to realize the next novel element no matter what solution you employ
11:46	dnolen_	,(type (distinct '(1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4)))
11:46	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
11:47	dnolen_	mfikes: just because it's lazy doesn't it mean it won't hang
11:47	mfikes	hellofunk: Makes me ponder the true meaning of lazy: It doesn't seem to guarantee that take will complete. But, arguably, it is living up to its definition of deferring work until it needs to be done.
11:47	dnolen_	(filter true? (repeat false))
11:47	mfikes	dnolen_: Cool. I learned something new. :)
11:47	dnolen_	call first on that will hang, distinct is not different in this case
12:06	hellofunk	dnolen_: great example. learned something on that one.
12:18	cbryan	what would be the idiomatic way to write the equivalent to this java code? http://hastebin.com/omahoyamus.avrasm I think I did the loop nicely, but I'm not sure how to efficiently and readably do the conditions. http://hastebin.com/tadaxehube.coffee
12:37	hellofunk	cbryan: isn't "for" quite a lot of fun?
12:49	cbryan	hellofunk: indeed, i only recently learned about :when and :let :D
12:50	cbryan	i just cant get the conditionals to be pretty
13:05	hellofunk	cbryan: i think there is a syntax error in there, where's the final ] ?
13:44	daniel_	what are some techniques for making a library configurable? i want to be able to require it and then define certain constants which it relies on
13:44	justin_smith	$mail cbryan (= x 0) should usually be (zero? x)
13:44	lazybot	Message saved.
13:50	bbloom	cbryan: `for produces a sequence, but it looks like you're trying to return a scalar value
13:50	bbloom	so the vertexOffset parameter is really like state, so you may want to consider using reduce
13:50	bbloom	(reduce (fn [vertex-offset i] ...) 0 (for ....))
13:50	bbloom	cbryan: for that first "..." try cond
14:04	aaelony	in emacs markdown-mode, I get nice element items by starting the line with a dash "-" in an unordered list. Hitting return then takes me to the next line with correct indentation for the next element of the list in my markdown. When I parse the markdown with clj-markdown however, items where I did that don't render the quite right, and I need to replace all the tabs with spaces manually. They don't appear to be actual tabs though, as (cloju
14:04	aaelony	re.string/replace s #"\t" " ") doesn't remove them. What's the best way to find out what they are and replace them appropriately?
14:10	andyf	aaelony: To find out what they are, debug prints can be very informative
14:11	andyf	perhaps after breaking up into lines, if you aren't doing that already.
14:11	wjlroe	with core.logic.pldb, when facts have been defined, how do you do disequality with those facts? If (db-rel grouped x y) - how do I unify 2 values that aren't in that relationship?
14:11	aaelony	andf: indeed, but for whitespace?
14:11	andyf	,(map int " abc")
14:11	clojurebot	(32 32 97 98 99)
14:12	aaelony	andyf: thanks, I'll try that.
14:16	aaelony	andyf: thanks for that, I feel stupid as it was simply 4 space characters...
14:18	andyf	no worries. Forgive yourself :-)
14:20	aaelony	;)
14:56	lxsameer	hey guys, 1) can create a binary executable using clojure ( java independent ) ?
14:57	justin_smith	lxsameer: clojure needs a target platform to run (jvm, or clr, or javascript)
14:57	lxsameer	justin_smith: so answer is no. fair enough
14:57	justin_smith	it doesn't need java though (jdk) just the vm
14:58	lxsameer	justin_smith: jre only, am I right ?
14:58	justin_smith	right, that's what I meant
14:58	lxsameer	2) Can i use java lib directly in clojure ?
14:58	borkdude	hmm, #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: clojure.core.cache/through, compiling:(clojure/core/memoize.clj:52:3)> what?
14:59	justin_smith	lxsameer: yes, all of the jvm is available from clojure
14:59	justin_smith	ie. ##(java.util.Date.)
14:59	lazybot	⇒ #inst "2014-12-24T19:56:09.925-00:00"
14:59	lxsameer	justin_smith: do I have to write a wrapper or something
14:59	justin_smith	lxsameer: though some things are easier than others (you need ie. gen-class and static compilation to do all the features of concrete inheratence)
15:00	justin_smith	lxsameer: no - what I did above directly instanciated a Date object
15:00	justin_smith	no wrappers
15:00	justin_smith	*instantiated
15:00	lxsameer	justin_smith: cool
15:00	justin_smith	clojure compiles to jvm bytecode, and directly does anything you can do on the jvm (though some things are easier than others)
15:01	lxsameer	3) can I use OOP along side with functional programming in clojure ?
15:01	borkdude	I get this exception when adding com.cemerick/friend "0.2.1" to my project, weird?
15:01	borkdude	lxsameer sure https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3QEKjUIUAEPYtk.jpg:large
15:02	lxsameer	borkdude: I meant the actual code, not the principles
15:02	borkdude	lxsameer you mean interop? not sure what you mean
15:03	borkdude	lxsameer you don't want to write java classes in clojure, but you can use them
15:03	justin_smith	lxsameer: yeah, you can do OOP with classes / methods etc. But clojure doesn't really encourage concrete inheritence, or make it easy. Which is a good thing imho.
15:03	justin_smith	borkdude: defrecord, fn, defprotocol... these things all generate classes
15:04	borkdude	justin_smith fn also generates a class, that is not important
15:04	lxsameer	justin_smith: borkdude , I know that it's not a good idea, but can I define a class in clojure ?
15:04	justin_smith	yes
15:04	lxsameer	good
15:04	justin_smith	with deftype, or gen-class, or defrecord
15:04	justin_smith	and defprotocol for interfaces
15:05	justin_smith	also, there are reify and proxy for instantiating / extending a java class or interface with an anonymous singleton class instance
15:06	justin_smith	as can be needed sometimes to interoperate with things written in java
15:06	lxsameer	4) what about using codes which is written in other JVM base langs like JRuby or scala, can I use them clojure
15:07	justin_smith	yes, they all generate classes with methods, and you can instantiate their classes and invoke their methods via clojure without any wrappers needed
15:07	lxsameer	justin_smith: niceeee
15:07	justin_smith	though in some cases a very small "shim" java class, in regular java, can make things easier
15:09	justin_smith	I think the right approach with clojure, as borkdude was hinting also I think, is to stick to immutable collections (hash-maps, vectors, lists, sets) and writing pure functions that use those
15:09	lxsameer	justin_smith: can I use Akka framework of scala in clojure for example ?
15:09	justin_smith	and then do only as much OO as you need to interact with the features you need from other things on the jvm
15:09	borkdude	lxsameer you probably want to use core.async before looking at Akka from clojure
15:09	justin_smith	lxsameer: yeah, there are even some helpers to make that simpler
15:10	lxsameer	borkdude: yeah you right, but I'm looking for some answers in all these stupid questions :P
15:10	lxsameer	justin_smith: awesome
15:10	justin_smith	lxsameer: yeah, in general for anything with message passing / async / threads / state coordination, the normal clojure way will likely be a lot better than bindings to another lang's lib
15:10	lxsameer	borkdude: justin_smith I'm trying to choose between clojure and scala and I messed up :[
15:11	justin_smith	cool, then you can definitely interact with akka :)
15:11	lxsameer	justin_smith: thanks man, you really helped me a lot
15:11	justin_smith	and eventually, you may agree with us about Clojure's superiority and migrate to pure clojure for the async stuff
15:11	justin_smith	;)
15:11	borkdude	lxsameer I wouldn't worry much about "can I do this feature from my favorite language in clojure", because clojure has indeed it's own way and many things are much simpler than the tangible mess most OO languages are ;P
15:12	justin_smith	borkdude: but he isn't asking about the feature, he is asking about extending code he already has
15:12	justin_smith	which is totally valid imho
15:12	borkdude	justin_smith I missed that part then I think.
15:12	lxsameer	borkdude: thanks man
15:13	lxsameer	I have a huge rails application right now which is run on Torquebox
15:13	borkdude	can someone help me with this exception? #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: clojure.core.cache/through, compiling:(clojure/core/memoize.clj:52:3)>
15:13	borkdude	I got it after adding friend to my project
15:13	borkdude	cemerick maybe?
15:13	lxsameer	I wanted to re implement several parts of it in an JVM base lang
15:13	justin_smith	borkdude: I remember issues regarding lein and core.cache... wish I remembered the details
15:13	borkdude	lxsameer I'm using JRuby now since 4 weeks and coming from clojure I want to go back iasao ;)
15:14	borkdude	lxsameer *asap
15:15	lxsameer	borkdude: cool
15:15	justin_smith	lxsameer: my intro to clojure was being hired to work on a ruby web platform replacement (modified rails like thing) with a clojure system (for sanity and performance reasons)
15:15	borkdude	lxsameer although JRuby isn't that bad compared to Java EE :P
15:15	lxsameer	borkdude: but I really like Ruby and ROR
15:15	cemerick	borkdude: probably related to https://github.com/cemerick/friend/issues/116
15:16	lxsameer	justin_smith: really ?
15:16	borkdude	my experience with (J)Ruby is that you get lots of things for free, but that it's hard to track down when something goes wrong and too much magic is happening to my taste
15:16	justin_smith	lxsameer: clojure is really great for things like a web backend where you have very long program running times, and can use as much ram as you need within system limits and just need fast throughput and dynamism
15:16	borkdude	JRuby + RoR I mean
15:16	justin_smith	lxsameer: yup. Caribou project.
15:17	lxsameer	justin_smith: awesome , but How is clojure in matter of resource usage ?
15:17	lxsameer	borkdude: I hope you find it more interesting in the future
15:17	ro_st	it uses them all. but it uses them wisely. :-)
15:17	justin_smith	borkdude: "too much magic is happening" could be both ruby's best motto, and it's worst slur :)
15:18	justin_smith	lxsameer: the baseline is pretty high - but it can keep going for months or years without blowing up (unlike some platforms I can name)
15:18	borkdude	lxsameer I'm sure only a month experience is not a position to give a fair judgement and I do like a lot of stuff of it
15:18	justin_smith	lxsameer: a big part of this is you get the entire clojure compiler, for free, whether you want it or not, as part of your deployed runtime.
15:18	lxsameer	justin_smith: can you name those , For my information :P
15:18	borkdude	it seems that I won't be using friend then for a simple login
15:19	justin_smith	lxsameer: ruby, node, php - good luck getting month long uptimes in one process under any load with any of those
15:19	justin_smith	borkdude: I wish I understood friend.
15:19	borkdude	justin_smith what are you using for authentication?
15:19	lxsameer	justin_smith: interesting
15:20	lxsameer	justin_smith: borkdude thanks guys, you helped me a lot
15:20	justin_smith	borkdude: username + bcrypt hash of password stored in the db, authorized token in session in a server-side in-mem cookie
15:21	borkdude	lxsameer sure thing, welcome to clojure, there is (almost) no way back ;)
15:21	justin_smith	borkdude: plus a very simple middleware that sends you to the login for protected routes (and login checks pw to hashed pw, etc.)
15:21	borkdude	justin_smith do you have some sample code?
15:21	lxsameer	borkdude: :))
15:21	lxsameer	borkdude: thansk buddy
15:21	justin_smith	borkdude: let me check
15:22	borkdude	justin_smith I think I'll go for lib-noir's session thing
15:22	borkdude	justin_smith unless you offer me something better :)
15:23	justin_smith	https://github.com/caribou/caribou-admin/blob/master/src/caribou/admin/controllers/settings/account.clj#L35 borkdude admittedly not pretty, but here is how we do it in the caribou admin
15:24	justin_smith	come to think of it though, the logic is kind of scattered in different parts of the code (which is one thing friend and lib-noir improve)
15:25	justin_smith	but it's only a few things - retrieving and comparing a hash, routing based on whether the user is authorized
15:25	tucker	hello
15:26	tucker	How does (def head-fibo (lay-cat [0N 1N] (map + head-fibo (rest head-fibo))) work
15:26	tucker	because it seems to make a recursive call to head-fibo, yet this function isn't set up to take any arguments
15:54	justin_smith	tucker: def does not create a function, it creates a var. It isn't calling itself, it is including itself in the calculation used to create itself
15:54	justin_smith	it's a clever trick, but not neccissarily good style
15:54	justin_smith	,(def head-fibo (lay-cat [0N 1N] (map + head-fibo (rest head-fibo)))
15:54	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
15:55	justin_smith	,(def head-fibo (lay-cat [0N 1N] (map + head-fibo (rest head-fibo))))
15:55	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: lay-cat in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:55	justin_smith	,(def head-fibo (lazy-cat [0N 1N] (map + head-fibo (rest head-fibo))))
15:55	clojurebot	#'sandbox/head-fibo
15:55	justin_smith	,head-fibo
15:55	clojurebot	(0N 1N 1N 2N 3N ...)
15:56	justin_smith	it relies on the fact that vars are created before they have values assigned (so that they can refer to themselves in the code that constitutes them)
15:56	tucker	so (def head-fibo (lay-cat [0N 1N] (map + head-fibo (rest head-fibo)))
15:56	justin_smith	it's not lay-cat, it's lazy-cat
15:57	tucker	justin_smith: so
15:57	tucker	justin_smith: we bind head-fibo to what's inside the parenthesis right?
15:57	justin_smith	we bind it to the result of calling lazy-cat with those args
15:58	justin_smith	so really there are two "tricks" here - the fact that it can refer to itself in its definition, and the fact that lazy-cat only creates elements of the result sequence as you use them
16:00	justin_smith	,(let [fib-subseq [0 1 1 2 3 5]] (map + fib-subseq (rest fig-subseq)))
16:00	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: fig-subseq in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
16:00	justin_smith	,(let [fib-subseq [0 1 1 2 3 5]] (map + fib-subseq (rest fib-subseq)))
16:00	clojurebot	(1 2 3 5 8)
16:00	justin_smith	maybe seeing that helps a little?
16:01	justin_smith	,(let [fib-subseq [0 1 1 2 3 5]] (map vector fib-subseq (rest fib-subseq))) ; showing pairs of args this time
16:01	clojurebot	([0 1] [1 1] [1 2] [2 3] [3 5])
16:01	tucker	justin_smith: hmm bare with me. In the REPL, I cannot simply do (+ [0 1] [3 4]), but I can do (map + [0 1] [3 4])
16:01	tucker	why?
16:01	clojurebot	http://clojure.org/rationale
16:02	justin_smith	tucker: see what hapens when I map vector in that last call
16:02	justin_smith	,(map vector [:a :b :c] [:x :y :z])
16:02	clojurebot	([:a :x] [:b :y] [:c :z])
16:02	tucker	surely (+ [0 1] [3 4]) must be valid for it then to apply map ?
16:02	justin_smith	no
16:02	justin_smith	[0 1] is not a number
16:03	tucker	,(+ [0 1] [3 4])
16:03	justin_smith	notice that I map vector - then I get a lazy seq of vectors
16:03	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
16:03	justin_smith	if I map + instead of vector, I get each sum instead of each pair
16:03	tucker	how do you know it's a lazy seq here?
16:03	justin_smith	,(type (map + [1 2 3] [4 5 6]))
16:03	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
16:04	justin_smith	map always returns a lazy-seq
16:09	tucker	justin_smith: I get (let [fib-subseq [0 1 1 2 3 5]] (map vector fib-subseq (rest fib-subseq)))
16:09	tucker	justin_smith: but (def head-fibo (lazy-cat [0N 1N] (map + head-fibo (rest head-fibo)))) still eludes me
16:10	justin_smith	,(let [items '[a b c]] (map list items (rest items))) ; does this help?
16:10	clojurebot	((a b) (b c))
16:10	justin_smith	hmm, more items would likely help there
16:11	justin_smith	,(let [items '[a b c d e f g h]] (map list items (rest items))) ; does this help?
16:11	clojurebot	((a b) (b c) (c d) (d e) (e f) ...)
16:11	tucker	yeah, I see
16:11	justin_smith	see how (map f x (rest x)) operates on each consecutive pair? and isn't that kind of how fib is defined normally?
16:14	tucker	justin_smith: I get it. Awesome. And this is bad for recursion as the head-fibo will hold the entire collection? That is, it will always store every element calculated ?
16:15	justin_smith	yeah, like any infinite lazy-seq defined at the top level, the only way to clear the heap used by the collection is to destructively redefine it
16:15	justin_smith	unless it was closed over - then it isn't freed until those closed-over contexts are freed...
16:17	justin_smith	if instead you defined a generator function, then you could use it inside a let block and if you are careful about scope leakage the clojure compiler and the jvm gc can make sure it is freed when needed
16:18	justin_smith	come to think of it, that's using a function as an "anti-closure" - storing the method of production instead of the result of production
16:42	tucker	justin_smith: Thanks alot. In regards to your closure comment, you said normally the closure pattern stores result of production. Can you expand on this (I use closures all the time in my work, but I wasn't sure what you're getting it)?
16:43	justin_smith	it's a pattern more common to common lisp / scheme (let [x (make-x)] (defn foo [y] (g x y)))
16:43	justin_smith	so it's storing x as part of the function closure
16:44	justin_smith	as opposed to (defn fibs [] (lazy-cat ...)) which would ensure you recreate the lazy-seq on each invocation rather than storing it for later
16:45	tucker	I think I see what you're getting at. g is just some kind of operator, right?
16:47	hellofunk	(inc justin_smith)
16:47	lazybot	⇒ 162
16:47	justin_smith	tucker: yeah, some function or another, not really important there what it is
16:49	hellofunk	justin_smith: i remain a fan of the idiom (let [x (make-x)] (defn foo [y] (g x y)))
16:50	justin_smith	hellofunk: we even have partial to make it more succinct (def foo (partial g (make-x)))
16:50	hellofunk	nifty
16:50	justin_smith	hellofunk: but in an environment of pervasive immutability, locally hidden state is often worse than global state would be
16:51	hellofunk	nice point.
17:05	munderwo	Hi all. Has anybody had to interop with promises is javascript from clojurescript? Any pointers on how to handle it?
17:09	hellofunk	munderwo: fyi there is also #clojurescript though you might get some pointers here too.
17:10	munderwo	oh, yeah. I always forget to ask there… I’ll cross-ask (?) there and see if anybody has had any luck
17:12	dnolen_	munderwo: interop'ing with promises is just basic JS interop, also pretty straightforward to bridge promises to core.async channels if you need to
17:13	munderwo	ahh ok. I think im still trying to get my head around how they actually work. that and I think Im using a hand rolled version of promises. I gather than the .then function gets called automatically once the promise is realised?
17:31	dnolen_	munderwo: yes same as JS
17:46	makk	hello
17:47	makk	Is there a clojure function similar to map that doesn't collect results? I want to apply a function on elements in a vector without really collection any results (i.e. maybe just return nil)
17:48	SagiCZ1	doseq
17:48	SagiCZ1	or, if you want map syntax.. you can (doall (map ..))
17:49	SagiCZ1	,(doseq [e (range 2)] (println e))
17:49	clojurebot	0\n1\n
17:49	SagiCZ1	and it does return nil btw
17:50	tomjack	if you want to return nil, dorun instead of doall
17:50	SagiCZ1	yeah sorry.. dorun
17:50	makk	thank you, I'll check out dorun and doseq
17:51	SagiCZ1	dorun is to force evaluation of lazyseq.. its useful in general.. doseq is exactly for calling a function on each element of collection to produce sife-effects
17:57	thheller	clojure 1.7 has (run! some-fn coll) if you are playing with the alpha ;)
18:00	SagiCZ1	thheller: what does that do
18:00	thheller	call (some-fn item) for each item in coll, return nil
18:01	SagiCZ1	is that not doseq?
18:01	thheller	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L7298-L7303
18:01	thheller	well (doseq [item coll] (some-fn item)) is a bit longer ;)
18:02	SagiCZ1	and whats up with the exclamation mark.. seems like they are getting too generous with them
18:02	thheller	slight difference that it uses reduce internally
18:03	thheller	well its to force side effects, so run! is good
18:03	SagiCZ1	why doseq doesnt have an exclamation mark then?
18:04	thheller	starts with do? don't care honestly ...
19:43	justin_smith	thheller: at one point we talked about adding don't blocks to the useless lib
19:43	justin_smith	like do, except it doesn't
19:44	justin_smith	(defmacro don't [& _] '(do nil))
20:07	rpaulo_	heh
22:25	gfredericks	,#"(?<=xx*)" ;; okay fine
22:25	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
22:25	gfredericks	&#"(?<=xx*)" ;; okay fine
22:25	lazybot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Look-behind group does not have an obvious maximum length near index 6
22:25	rksm_
22:25	rksm_	[Wed Dec 24 2014]
22:25	rksm_	*** Topic for #clojure: Clojure, the language http://clojure.org \| Currently
22:25	rksm_	at 1.6.0; top analysts expect this to be followed by newer versions with
22:25	rksm_	still higher numbers:
22:25	rksm_	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md \| discussion:
22:25	gfredericks	&#"(?<=x*)" ;; wat
22:25	lazybot	⇒ #"(?<=x*)"
22:25	rksm_	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure [18:16]
22:25	rksm_	*** #clojure: topic set by
22:25	rksm_	technomancy!~user@ec2-54-244-178-65.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com,
22:25	rksm_	2014-03-26 09:33:15
22:25	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: rksm_ sgregory dalzony looper wiggen ztellman n0n3such
22:25	rksm_	brucehauman apah fivebats yeahnoob ChiralSym cydork m_3 farhaven ka2u pdk
22:25	rksm_	robustus swgillespie jimduey jumblerg kristof andres-v jasonjckn Jabberz
22:25	rksm_	namra mumrah hbccbh conan telex andyf astrofog mrcheeks` rksm Kohelet
22:25	rksm_	seangrove h_ Rhainur1 jareddba rcarey4 TEttinger w4ffles__ MadFunk aka
22:25	rksm_	meandi jlf dc_ munderwo moisesv_ havenwood ajhager sak supersym lyddonb
22:26	rksm_	dsantiago nuwanda dopamean_ OlegYch6 wildnux
22:26	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: keen__________12 sova gws tucker Atlanis lordB8r
22:26	rksm_	craigglennie daniel_ drbobbeaty prc danielglauser adamhill_ olivierrr
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22:26	rksm_	charliekilo dnolen_ oscar_toro ivan\ mnemnion Frozenlock fsvehla triss
22:26	rksm_	vendethiel dakrone robink elarson_ Jellydog nw Intensity rkneufeld_ pfeyz
22:26	rksm_	mtd_ jconnolly OscarZ- nicferrier sw1nn Javran mrBliss psy_ frkout mee
22:26	rksm_	malyn dabradley kanobe_ lnostdal razum2um1 gigetoo tobik
22:26	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: jweiss sarlalian audaxion mysamdog insamniac srcerer
22:26	rksm_	mlb- jakecraige wtflem_ DomKM herme5 abhirc skrblr rplaca jlewis jlewis_
22:26	rksm_	paulweb515 zerokarmaleft wolfes hodlr kephale necronian AimHere Ragnor
22:26	rksm_	ordnungswidrig Excureo cascada-io daemian _5kg superjudge_ jmccune
22:26	rksm_	TEttinger2 ibdknox lifenoodles_ rs0 willgorman teejar_ heurist clojurebot
22:26	rksm_	crazysim Natch rlb TDJACR Raynos ZucchiniZe Xorlev ConstantineXVI Xe Cr8
22:26	rksm_	Klumben Alina-malina arekinath xpika luxbock uber
22:26	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: SegFaultAX PeregrinePDX samflores r4vi boyscared matt_c
22:26	rksm_	cherwin cYmen_ rtl turbofail hooptw sobel ska-fan ieure neena ryanf
22:26	rksm_	perplexa kylo eevar FMJaggy abh jcsims magopian twem2 jfojtl vmesons
22:26	rksm_	spwhitt rowth Kneiva juhani hipsterslapfigh- onthesta1rs oyvinrob
22:26	rksm_	jackjames scopedTV scttnlsn the-kenny noidi_ gideonite devn Pistahh Kruppe
22:27	rksm_	msassak greenyouse amontalenti edw spjt _trev TristamWrk icedp Trieste
22:27	rksm_	jave ngk Lugoues jetlag lvh Adeon tuft godd2 ktsuji
22:27	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: luigy stderr wang saurik glitch100 tbaldridge someone
22:27	rksm_	Mongey Luyt_ broquaint jlpeters d4gg4d jlouis boodle amoe AeroNotix
22:27	rksm_	sbauer322 cfleming akhudek Rapp 7YUAAPOC8 s_e Orva Shayanjm codelahoma jwm
22:27	rksm_	[blake\| dogonthehorizon jeremyheiler rufoa mattrepl moquist verma LBRapid
22:27	rksm_	jswanson lfranchi mekaj spectre256 maxmartin jinks_ gko kiwitobes tomjack
22:27	rksm_	wirrbel ered auganov thecontrarian42 Sorella eristic [Neurotic]
22:27	rksm_	greghendershott nmashton si14 whodidthis raywillig
22:27	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: ipolyzos bjeanes NhanH gluegadget ambrosebs rigalo_
22:27	rksm_	fuziontech____ Robdor nseger_ mccraig metadaddy andreypopp__ lijnen_
22:27	rksm_	dzimm_ jonathanj jayne_ reiddraper kzar mcav elsen_ thheller sohum
22:27	rksm_	sea-gull- arkh divyanshu bodie_ sordina3 soncodi rfv joshhead ThePhoeron
22:27	rksm_	jcrossley3-away StianE rpaulo ChongLi nickenchuggets relgar Tuna-Fish
22:27	rksm_	pawnda dysfun clauswitt joshbamboo2 Christmasiumn alandipert arohner
22:27	rksm_	Glenjamin saltsa Duke- pppppaul engblom npr owengalenjones
22:27	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: troydm codeburg ahihi chriswk_____ pgmcgee
22:27	rksm_	gratimax\|away opqdonut nullptr H4ns ggreer sneeu brixen ivan`
22:27	rksm_	StevePotayTeo chridal itruslove joshskidmore grauwulf pjstadig hakvroot
22:27	rksm_	LukeWinikates___ jez0990 tcrayford____ fmu yazirian guilleiguaran jdaggett
22:27	swgillespie	ok
22:28	rksm_	yogthos\|away ucb__ brianwong anildigital hiredman cdombroski banjiewen
22:28	rksm_	josephwi_ mjz Mendor\|scr joegallo shoky morganastra luisalima maxigas
22:28	troydm	wtf
22:28	rksm_	borkdude justinmcp_ tikotus neektza justin_smith haroldwu fikusz
22:28	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: yason awkorama alxlit Sgeo libertas jerseykx
22:28	sova	lol
22:28	rksm_	bencryption igorw matthoffman babilen kryft rovar_ yunfan povilas nikola
22:28	rksm_	jgmize `brian lhdc_ lobotomy torgeir waf rweir amalloy_ oskarth grandy_
22:28	rksm_	larme demolithion cosmicexplorer profil tomku kristian_ Guest50300 supki
22:28	rksm_	jabbslad seubert cursork numberten shem machty jodaro hash averell jlyndon
22:28	rksm_	karls zph dkua khmer madscientist` aksatac zanes troezen Empperi majoh
22:28	rksm_	dominiclobue zonpantli algernon pyrtsa orkaa
22:28	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: edoloughlin ninjudd janne byaruhaf l1x avdi nexysno
22:28	rksm_	Raynes Revenrof Guest83413 jamiei ffwacom 32NAARMUJ okic jmolet cantsin
22:28	rksm_	ekroon marce808 micrypt hguux_ aperiodic zpconn__________ wink l3dx
22:28	rksm_	mariorz augustl donmullen littleli magnars tbatchelli___ korpse
22:28	rksm_	bbyler_tho_ nathan7 arrdem schwap_ terom_ jimt_ TMA kreg_ qz anekos
22:28	sova	hey does anybody have a tedious listing of all the users on this channel handy?
22:28	rksm_	varioust addisonj ggherdov tcrawley-away gignosko pickledonion__ mrb_bk
22:28	rksm_	michaniskin andy_c_ andrewstewart bcarrell sundbp chenglou zrl
22:28	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: rhg135 rjknight__ tomobrien katratxo hugod mynomoto
22:28	rksm_	martinklepsch sross07 canassa akkad owenb____ TrafficMan_ SHODAN fvt tpope
22:28	rksm_	fryguy wunki honkfestival octane--_ ianhedoesit Shambles_1 ctrlrsf
22:28	swgillespie	sova: oh boy, we're in luck!
22:29	rksm_	noncom\|3 apetresc matt_d thearthur erdic peted misv Deraen jml cmiles74
22:29	rksm_	Mandus Jaood j0ni snzmn philandstuff zoldar anon-6857 mearnsh ipostelnik
22:29	rksm_	jefelante _ato kerneis_ lpvb axylos bool_ HeXFuRy timvisher llasram
22:29	rksm_	dyreshark David iamdustan mgaare sethalves whee
22:29	godd2	sova what order did you want them in?
22:29	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: filabrazilska metellus merlinsbrain bobpoekert
22:29	rksm_	bsansouci awwaiid cyraxjoe hipsterslapfight tazjin newgnus log0ymxm spicyj
22:29	rksm_	danneu myguidingstar rlr leathekd Adr1 Licenser pcn emacsnw lokydor
22:29	rksm_	jgdavey lotia enn danlarkin JSON_voorhees tomhs yacin maio DerGuteMoritz
22:29	olivierrr	huh?
22:29	rksm_	Chousuke certainty mrLite lazybot sfa laurio manytrees jeregrine
22:29	Raynes	rksm_: I will murder you and your family.
22:29	rksm_	jakebasile_ howard sivoais alexbaranosky groot_ kmicu lancepantz ozzloy
22:29	rksm_	amano-- matthavener TimMc beppu machuga rasmusto ikitommi
22:29	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: mikko raek shwouchk kungi slpsys_ yumike bobwilliams
22:29	sova	godd2: loosely sorted is fine
22:29	rksm_	l_ch_nm_y_r @ChanServ Meeh septomin Nahra m1dnight_ taij33n tac-tics
22:29	rksm_	nmontecc klobucar______ beawesomeinstead leifw gf3 gregburd_ l2x dj_ryan
22:29	rksm_	dselph_____ seabre leptonix squeedee MerryL235 zeapo gazarsgo n1ftyn8
22:29	rksm_	jzelinskie pmbauer_ danlucraft nwjsmith bruceadams Scorchin hyPiRion
22:29	rksm_	kikkerbrood ToxicFrog dean someplace raoul ddima ikitommi_ segmond
22:29	rksm_	dottedmag georgej162__ locks tephra FliPPeh kraft Morgawr
22:29	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: alloyed coffeejunk halorgium wormphle1m mrowe_away
22:29	rksm_	peeja kral zymurgy Tristam lpaste wjlroe suvash_away JStoker nathanic
22:30	rksm_	deadghost octe knyppeldynan danlentz eagleflo mdeboard kandinski
22:30	rksm_	brainproxy TheMoonMaster saiam gfredericks expez cmbntr hfaafb silven
22:30	rksm_	Viesti ucb harrigan thomas Floyd_ Blkt _jimrthy f3ew scgilardi adammh
22:30	rksm_	Riviera_ ephemeron marienz julienXX arianvp_ brackets p_l rippy obobobo
22:30	yunfan	rksm_: what's up? are you detecting zombie?
22:30	rksm_	Foxboron chouser_log tmarble stain zakwilson AWizzArd
22:30	rksm_	*** Users on #clojure: yocapybara joelkuiper sorenmacbeth ontoillogical acagle
22:30	olivierrr	ban?
22:30	rksm_	puyo grim_radical kitallis cross rotty_ pepijndevos splunk_ kenrestivo
22:30	Shambles_1	rksm_: Guessing you're using a out-of-date EMACS IRC client. Might want to get that looked at.
22:30	rksm_	tomaw honza swen ivan
22:30	rksm_
22:30	Raynes	So here's the deal folks.
22:30	Raynes	There are no moderators around.
22:30	n1ftyn8	Yikes
22:30	Raynes	You can /ignore this fella if it continues.
22:30	swgillespie	looks like he's done
22:30	sova	The calm before the storm
22:30	godd2	anarchy!!!
22:30	olivierrr	#freenode can help.
22:31	Shambles_	It's a old EMACS client bug.
22:31	swgillespie	Shambles_: that's a hell of a bug
22:31	olivierrr	hahah.
22:31	Shambles_	swgillespie: Still happens every few weeks years later on the #emacs channel.
22:32	swgillespie	lol
22:33	yogthos	jonathanj: if you're using lein-ring then you don't need to have a main
22:34	yogthos	jonathanj: in your project.clj there should be a :ring key that points to the handler
22:36	ztellman	what's going on
22:45	sova	ztellman: listening to the doors and learning some clojure
22:46	gfredericks	ztellman: ###"(?<=x*)"
22:46	gfredericks	I mean
22:46	gfredericks	,#"(?<=x*)"
22:46	clojurebot	#"(?<=x*)"
22:46	gfredericks	,#"(?<=x**)"
22:46	clojurebot	#<NoClassDefFoundError java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException>
22:46	gfredericks	oh constantinople
22:46	gfredericks	&#"(?<=x**)"
22:46	lazybot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Dangling meta character '*' near index 6
22:47	gfredericks	&#"(?<=xx*)"
22:47	lazybot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Look-behind group does not have an obvious maximum length near index 6
22:47	gfredericks	this is a terrible demonstration
22:47	gfredericks	but that is what is going on with me
22:51	sova	gfredericks: you fight the good fight
22:54	gfredericks	going to give up for the night the good give up for the night
22:56	adamwarlock	if i do (go (>! some-chan (blocking-call)) will it park the thread or block it?
23:05	ddellacosta	adamwarlock: I was curious as well, and I think this stackoverflow answer gives a good response which answers your question: http://stackoverflow.com/a/21467918
23:05	ddellacosta	" The magic non-blocking nature of go-blocks comes from "parking," which is a special sort of pseudo-blocking that core.async's state machine uses — but since your database calls genuinely block instead of putting the state machine into a parked state, you'd just be blocking some thread from the core.async thread pool."
23:21	kenrestivo	it'd sure be nice if there were shifts such that there were ops around 24/7
23:21	kenrestivo	concurrent with that... if there were more ops
23:21	kenrestivo	many hands make light work. it is the way of open source.
23:23	adamwarlock	oh, so as long blocking-call blocks so will the thread